The Ringer NFL Show - Week 10 Recap: The Vikings' Improbable Win in Buffalo, Bucs Win in Germany, and Jeff Saturday is 1-0 | The Ringer NFL Recap Show

Episode Date: November 14, 2022

Nora and Steven are joined by Ben Solak to recap the chaotic victory the Vikings had over the Bills. They discuss the Vikings' ability to be a legit contender, and if they have any concern with Josh Allen’s recent string of turnovers (2:40). Then, Nora and Steven pick out their winners and losers from the week, including the Chiefs, Bucs, Browns, Raiders, and more (28:03). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Guest: Ben Solak Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Connor. Wait a minute, you're not Chris Vernon. No, Kevin, sadly, I'm not as cherubic or as raspy as Verno, but it is I, Jay Kyle, man. And folks, basketball has been and continues to be so very good. That's exactly why Kyle and I are hosting a brand new basketball show on a brand new podcast feed, the ringers NBA draft show. We're going to have you covered every week as we go in-depth and deep dive in hopes of answering an ever-important question in the NBA. Who's got next?

Whether it's an international phenom like Victor Wynbenyama or the G-League Scoot Henderson. Or stars from Overtime Elite like A. Men Thompson, as well as a full-blown swarm of talented prospects from the promising 2023 NBA draft class. For sure, Kyle. And we're also going to get into players from the college ranks because this is a loaded class. for us to discuss prospects rising and falling, and we're going to revisit and redraft recent draft classes and get into how the league's evolution could help inform what's valuable in a prospect of the future.

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1.0. Stephen Ries is undefeated and here to break down all of the action with me. Stephen, last week I said happy Sunday to you. And you said no one had ever before wished you a happy Sunday. But I thought the games were really fun today. So I'm going to try it again. Happy Sunday, Stephen. How is it going? I reject it. I reject the happy Sunday. I judge my Sundays based on how soon into the day I can come up with my topic for the Monday morning column I write and this one took forever so bad Sunday. This was actually for an

unhappy Sunday because all of the suspense that I thought would bring you joy actually brought you a angst and dissatisfaction. Well, all right. We've also got Benjamin Solek here for our headline which is the game of the week if not the year

and that is Vikings bills. Ben what was your favorite insane thing that happened tonight this game because I feel like there's about 20 to choose from. It's absolutely the defensive touchdown scored by the Vikings on the failed snap for the QB sneak.

Because of the mental process your head goes through where you're like, the bill's got to stop. Like this is great. Like they won it. This is unbelievable. And then when they go to land up, they're backed up. They got to make sure they get. Like this can actually. get a little bit dicey.

And then the moment the sneak hits and you see like Alan doesn't really make it out and like the, the Vikings defense starts celebrating, your mind goes, no way. The worst possible thing to ever happen has happened. They've taken a safety. Unbelievable. This was simply the last thing they could possibly do. It's the worst outcome. I can't believe they've taken a safety.

Nothing could possibly. And then right. And then like, you know, like Patrick Peterson's like thrown his hands up like a touchdown. You're like, no, you can't unless there's. no way. And there's a great moment where Josh Allen outside of the scrum looks to Gabe Davis. Like, well, there's still like the refs to figure out the scrum. He's next to Gabe Davis. He just turns and just shakes his head. And you're like, there's no way. He actually fumbled it. And he did it. It is the worst thing that could happen. I saw, I forget, I don't remember who the

precise tweeter was, but I saw somebody say that they were like trying to find fourth quarter fumbles with a lead inside of your own one yard line in. NFL history and just like couldn't find a play. Like it just hadn't existed before. It's a tough outcome. Yeah. In your mind, you're like, this isn't even a thing that can happen. And low behold, it does. And they have like the one quarterback that you would think would get out of that situation.

Like he's the ideal quarterback for that situation. And he had the worst possible outcome. Maybe a historically bad outcome. Right. Like Kirk Cousins, minutes before has been in a situation where he just needs to advance the ball of very short distance. and it does not happen. And you're thinking, first of all, come on, Kirk,

got to hit leg day a little bit harder. But Josh Allen, in any sort of analogous situation, Josh Allen is the guy you want for this. And now obviously that the snap connection was messed up. So it's sort of hard to figure out exactly what happened there, obviously. It was like there's no way you could have a QB sneak worse than this. And then Josh Allen was like, oh, you think? Hold my beer.

Yes. And that was the thing is like the Kirk sneaker. like, oh, that's pitiful. Like, he didn't know how to step forward. It's a very sad quarterback sneak. And for 45 seconds, it was like, wow, we're really going to get to clown on Kurt Cousins for this very bad, embarrassing quarterback sneak. And as is just the theme of the Viking season, they were saved by something somehow more

ludicrously, more ludicrous happening, such as to put them in the lead in the fourth quarter. Okay. Here's the thing. So I don't even know if I said this. I'm just like on such a bender with this game. The Vikings, for anyone who somehow missed this, they win 3330 in overtime. It's just an absolutely incredible performance. I want to see where you guys landed after this because obviously this was this huge test for

this team that's won a ton of one score games. They'd played three backup quarterbacks. There was a chance they could have played a fourth if Josh Allen hadn't been healthy enough to play. He plays. It's this huge test. for this team that has a really good record that like we, the football commentariat and I think a lot of fans are not totally sure if they can trust. I want to see where you guys ended up.

Because I will say, I think the Vikings passed a significant test in this game, weird as it was. Because until this point in the season, I've never watched them and been able to like figure it out. It's always just been like, I don't get like, it doesn't make any sense. And there's something about like watching them be able to do what they did against the bills where it kind of clicked. And it's just like, look, it's not that complicated, but they have a certain number of stars who can play like stars first among them Justin Jefferson, who made the most insane catch I've ever seen to save a fourth and 18 that they don't win this game in overtime if he doesn't make. And it was just like the most unbelievable feat of situational awareness and athleticism and like physics defying ability that I mean, I think it was cooler than the Odell catch.

Like it's, but it's up there. Like it's one of those types of catches that gets a one word name to it. And then, you know, I think cousins got sacked quite a quite a bit in this. I don't remember how many but four or five. I still think the offensive line gives them a pretty good, like, baseline ability to function. And then it just comes down to how much good Kirk, how much bad Kirk do you get? And we got a little bit of both. But it all added up to a team that is not always good, but I got it.

Like, I got that, okay, there are enough stars on this team that when they're clicking, this is a team that might not be as good as its record is, but is worthy of attention and could realistically win a playoff game or something like that. And I had been unconvinced of that to this point. Here's my question about that. Enough stars on the team. Justin Jefferson's one. Who's two?

Is it like Zadarius? Like Zadarius's been killing it this year. Zay Smith, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cook I would put on there. Cook, I'll give you Zed areas. Right. Cook's on the list.

Cook's on the list. I think you could consider the offensive line a star. Like the tackles count. I would say the second best player on the offense is Brian O'Neill, right? And like I don't think Brian O'Neill is like a Lane Johnson caliber name in terms of like tackle put. You know what I'm saying? Delvin, who's like a solid player, that 80-yard run was enormous. It was huge.

I don't want to take anything away from that. Has it been as good this year? It hasn't looked as fast as like ran to the backs of guys. It hasn't been the strongest delving year. Obviously, an extremely timely 80-yard touchdown run. But my thing with Vikings' legitimacy, right, is a win over the bills is enormous. Continued establishment, you know, dominance in the NFC North.

They're going to win that division. They're going to have a home playoff game. It's great. Bills had a 96.8% win probability up 17 in the end of the third quarter. We have to remember, the Vikings end this game with 33 points. With a minute left in the third quarter, they had 10. This was 27 to 10 at the end of third quarter, so 97% win probability. And then after the Cook touchdown, bills are driving, first and 10 on the Minnesota 15,

bills of a 97.6% win probability from ESPN. So kudos to the Vikings for gotten this thing out. Kudos for the Vikings for doing what they have always done, which is making extremely timely plays in the fourth quarter. Three for five on fourth down in this game. I just, I, this win, win column, loss column, overtime, final score aside, this game largely played out the way I expected it to. And then, you know, somebody hit the Buffalo Wild Wing switch and chaos ensued. I mean, I don't trust them either.

This is not the same as the other Vikings wins this season because it's against the bills. Like, we can't keep moving the goalposts, right? I think why not? Why not, though? I think we can. I don't think it's moving the gold fund. When it happens like that, I think we can. But squeaking out a chaotic one-score game against a really good team

is different than squeaking out a chaotic one-score game or a non-caotic one-score game if that exists against a crappy team playing a bag of quarterback. I do agree with that. The one thing I would say is the game got chaotic when it was 27 to 10. Like the chaos led to the comeback, too. It wasn't just separating the two teams. I think the bills win this game 9.9 times out of 10. the Vikings found a point one.

They go up 2410 after there's that turnover by Singletary. That was pretty iffy, right? So maybe that doesn't get called that way. And they still got a defensive stop and then went on the touchdown drive before halftime. So the bills were able to make that not a super, super big loss, not getting the call on the turnover. I hear what you're saying. I'm just saying I think it's more impressive that they were able to do this against this caliber of opponent. Here's my concern with the Vikings.

And maybe this isn't a concern. Maybe this is actually a reason to be optimistic. But like, Kirk hasn't played well numbers-wise so far this year. He's 22nd in EPA per dropback. 20th in success rate. He is on play action dropbacks, which is supposed to be his thing. He's playing really poorly, like bottom of the league. and until they figure out that early down formula,

I don't think this team is going to be able to compete with the best teams in the league, despite what happened on Sunday. And I think what we saw early on in the game, the 10 points before the comeback is what we will see if they don't fix that part of the offense. I mean, also, like, the pick to Day Jackson was, like, unreal. That was an unreal Kurt Cousins moment. I don't want to establish myself as like a big Vikings guy here. I just think that they proved something that's a little bit more legitimate.

And this is going to be the best test that we had to evaluate them on, right? So we have to give them some credit for what they were able to do. I think what they proved is they're not going to go away. Like this team is going to be a playoff team. They're going to give, they're not going to, I don't think they're going to go out easy in the playoffs. That's what I'll say they proved today. Other than that, I'm like, okay, good win. This is what I'm saying.

I was not there. Like I couldn't grasp that. I can grasp that now. Yeah. To me, this is the same conversation that we had is a similar conversation to the one we, we had about the Titans last year, right? Yeah. Where like the Titans, you know, they started the season what? Like they were like three and two. And then they had the winning against Buffalo.

They had the win against Kansas City. And we were like, they're winning the, they're beating the best teams. Like this is like, you know, there's there's veracity here. And it was like, all right, well, they are. But like, I don't know how well this translates in terms of like playing January football and like going up against the high power teams. Then they lost Henry for a little bit. and that made stuff confusing. Then they beat the Rams.

Like the defense got better. And it was like, no, they're going to be real. They're going to be legit. And then they make it to the playoffs. And they just end up like, you know, they had the ball. Time down three, two minutes left. Like, they had a chance to beat the Bengals. And they didn't get it.

And that's because like you don't have a stark quarterback and your entire offensive build is through one player. And in the case of the Titans, they didn't have that one player, Derek Henry, in the home stretch and that playoff game. The first third down of the game, Kirk Cousins takes a snap, drops back three. steps, starts to panic in the pocket, double clutches, throws up an off platform prayer heave to Justin Jefferson, who is getting played inside trail and still wins on an inside route, which is

like not legal, catches it, breaks a tackle, breaks an angle of a safety, 45-yard gain. And it's like, oh, wow, what a critical third down play. And then that was the entire passing offense. Yes. Every critical down, it was Kirk from some weird arm angle with his feet pointed the wrong way, just discombobulated, generally being certain of the area in which 18 was, and hoping he was going to make him look good. Christian Benford played such a good game against Justin Jefferson, and it didn't matter at all, like zero. He was on the ball for the PBA.

He was on over the first third of 18. He had sticky coverage. It just never mattered once. He had on that, he had two hands on that ball. Justin Jefferson had one hand on that ball. Benford kept help keep the ball up for Jefferson. It was like he was so on the ball. He was like, I'm going to, this is a game ceiling interception.

And then Justin Jefferson just took it away from him and like put him on a highlight real poster that will exist in infamy for the next 20 years. Regardless, it's just there is a fragility there. If you're going to be a high win team without an elite quarterback, there's going to be questions. It's Tennessee last year. It's Miami this year. And it's Minnesota this year.

So you beat Buffalo. That's awesome. I don't know how often you're going to get fumbled quarterback sneaks at the one to score a go-ahead touchdown to get the game to kick a field goal to then get a second Josh Allen interception in the red end zone in order to win the game. That's just the thing where like when I try to figure out what to hang my hat on in terms of future season predictions, I can't put my hat there. They had to have all that go right. Plus the Jefferson stuff plus the Allen fumble on the one yard. line just to get to overtime. Yeah. So like as impressive as the win is, it's still like a silly, goofy win.

I don't, I don't know. This is a silly goofy team with a silly goofy quarterback. They don't win the Super Bowl. They don't win multiple playoff games. I think they're going to win multiple playoff games. I'm just not going to sit here and neg the Vikings for beating one of the best teams. You're on record saying the Vikings are winning the Super Bowl. That's what I heard.

I heard it from your lips. That's what it's going to open the pod is that sound bite. You're on Vikings Island. We switched it on you. No. Surprise. It's Wednesday. It's been Wednesday all along.

Please. Wilson. I'm looking castaway. All right. Anything on Josh Allen. He looked. I don't think the decision making stuff that led to the picks. My best guess is that that's not a health thing.

It didn't seem like it could be. Like he had the deep ball. He obviously played. So that's the biggest thing. To the extent that that this game provided an opportunity to sort of make an assessment of what caliber, Josh Allen in 2022 we're getting and are going to get down the stretch. It just seemed like he's, he's continuing to have this sort of silly goose month. And we'll see how long it lasts.

But I am certainly not schooled well enough on, um, elbow ligaments to know if any of that had to do with health or anything outside of just like sometimes Josh Allen does that neither am I but that's not going to stop me from having to take no I'm surprised let's go there was like there were like maybe like three throws where you could say like oh maybe that's the elbow but also the sample size is so small that it could have just been right it's just impossible also I think you guys were talking about this on the Friday pod I just don't understand this injury because it's like if pitchers get it it's all over for for like a year and a half.

And then Josh Allen's just like playing quarterback. That's fine. Seems normal. Josh Allen can outplay Kirk Cousins with it. Here's my, here's a theory that I have. The, the bills should throw the AFC East.

All right. Bear with me. Okay. Okay. The freezing buffalo cold can't be good for your ligaments. Do we want Josh Allen playing in Buffalo in January? That's not necessarily true. Don't be,

because people, I'm not a doctor. So I'm not going to push back. I thought cold was a bones thing. I guess joints. That's what I thought it was a joints thing. Like that's why old people go to the warm weather. That's why Tom Brady's working out so well in Tampa Bay.

I'm back on the ship. I'm with you. I'm not on the ship. I'm only on the ship if it's going to pick me up. I'm on the AFC East because cold is bad for Lehman's Island. I'm happy on this island. We're rolling. She's on Kirk Cousins Island,

but she won't come with me on. They should throw the AFC East Island. But I would rather have. have Josh Allen if his elbows messed up play in Miami then in Buffalo. Yeah, because last time Josh Allen played in Miami and like collapsed into his arms. I mean, I guess I just don't. If we had certainty that Josh Allen's elbow is an issue and it would be better if they just rested him for a while, then maybe we could think about it.

But we don't know that, Stephen. We have no idea if that's true. Well, that's a boring episode of the island. This isn't the island. This is Wednesday. I've Googled it. I've Googled it. Heat is beneficial in increasing muscle and ligament flexibility.

Boom. Throw the AFC East. Get Josh on the road. What's the schedule? Cold treatment may have the opposite effect. Okay, but then why do, why do athletes do so much like cryotherapy? I don't know. Why is there a cold tub?

Why does the cold tub even exist? Also, follow up. Can't they just put them in a sauna for a while before a game? Take them out, throw them out there? I just presented the science. This is very troubling for me. Nora is pro-Kerk cousins anti-science. The bills have no warm weather games.

Home browns, at lions, at Patriots, home jets, home dolphins, at bears, at Bengals, home patriots. No warmth left. The elbow is exposed. All right. If neither one of you comes up with a headline for your Friday pod, that is a pun on like goes cold, I'm going to be mad at you. We're going to be personally in a fight. The ligament's name is UCL.

So if we're predicting a Bill's loss, it's just you, Josh Allen, C. Oh. That's pretty good. That's good stuff. Thank you. This is like in middle school when you go up to someone and say, can you spell I cup? Yeah, that's where we are. That's still a bangor.

That's a good bit. On the scale of high to low, the area of cultural significance that the podcast is currently operating in. Like, that's roughly the bar. Josh Allen would probably lose it. If you did a eye cup joke, Josh Allen would lose it. It would crush. He's the target audience for that. Josh, if you're listening, hit us up.

Okay, my bill's take, which is not, we won't go down a, a rabbit hole like this on my bill's take. The bills haven't scored a second half touchdown since week six against Kansas City. This is from Ari Mirov of BFF. The buy in week seven, week eight, field goal against the backers, week nine, three points against the Jets, week 10, six points, two field goals against the Vikings. Josh has thrown, what is it now, four red zone interceptions over the course of the last two weeks, Jets and the Vikings. Each one is, it's a snowflake. They're all unique, right?

DJ read one was just like how did you not see him if you think he vanished the uh as as as Josh himself mentioned the fourth down one against the Vikings was hey it's fourth down like it's a turnover anyway I'm not throwing this thing away let's just see if I can hammer it in there you like yeah get over that one the game losing one Josh said after the game uh like you know execution bad throw it's on me watching it I think he expects Gabe Davis to be flat I think he expects Gabe Davis to be to be parallel to the to the end line to break that off at 90 and Davis kind of turns off the burners and goes at 45. I don't think Davis thinks he's going to be seeing that ball.

And there's a miscommunication there. I'm inclined to agree with Josh on that one, but he's not going to be up in the podium being like, it Gabe Davis sucks. Like he's just going to kind of call that the way he sees it. So I think it's like a miscommunication thing. I don't think there's anything in Allen's red zone interceptions that like to me is like a common threat or something to be overall concerned about.

I will say this is the second year in a row where like, comes out of the gate, just rip it hot. Like, just incredible start of the season. Very prolific. Bill's offense is killing it. And then they get to the middle of the season, and they just kind of, like, become potatoes for a little bit.

Like, it's just very odd, like, production. It's very odd success in the red zone. Like, it's just super easy mistakes. Execution stuff. The running game is abysmal. Naim Hines played 8% of the snaps today. What was the point? Like, it's just like, this is the second time in two years now.

They've had this, like, mid-season lull. And that just to me is, like, I don't know, I don't know what that is. That's, to me, more concerning in terms of year over year stuff is like kind of why are we like just having these, these random moments of it affected this when it seemed previously like they were unstoppable. Are we in Lull territory yet, though?

I feel like it's a little, they scored 30 points. Right. I get what you're saying though, but it is, like situationally it is a thing. It's just like when, I feel like when among the other elite quarterbacks, when they have these bad plays, it's really easy. to figure out why. And I think a thing that like they're like Herbert like always he's a robot. He's too robotic.

He like went X to Y to Z and like somebody just like kind of like anticipated his programming and picked him off. Mahometh is like yeah. Like the, you know, he's he's on bridal. He's going crazy. Like he's just like he bit off more than he can chew. Josh like whenever Josh is his worst plays, you always watch him and you're like, what?

Like it's just it's very bemusing. And I wish I could, I have a better thumb on the pulse of it than that. I mean, I really thought he had just eliminated. it from his game. Right, exactly. From the December. I think that's a mistake. I think it's a mistake to think that.

But he gave us like nine straight weeks or like it was less than that. Maybe like seven straight weeks. Going back to last year. And then like three weeks ago, he was like, oh yeah, this guy still exists. It lies within. There's a little bit of like an incredible Hulk syndrome with Josh where it's like the secret is he's always angry. Like that's how he's learned how to deal with.

The secret is like he's always ready to make the dumbest play you've ever seen. I'm always Nathan Peterman. Exactly. And then just every so often, like, boom, it does pop out. The big green guy just pops out for one play, game losing interception against the Vikings. There it is. Okay. But speaking of Nathan Peterman, if we're assessing turnovers here and what was going on in the quarterback's head when it happened,

Kirk has rarely Kirk harder than he Kirk throwing that pick. Yep. Yeah, he was like caught off guard that that guy was a defender. I would love to see the next-gen stats yards of separation, except they wouldn't track it because Day Jackson plays for the other team. But like there was just no, just why? I just don't understand. But, you know, think of beauty.

So happy to be on an island with him. Yeah. On the preview pod, I had said like, you know, Kirk just has five plays a game where you're just like, what are you doing, man? Just like 25 place perfect, five totally unintelligible. And so somebody on Twitter was like, that's one of his five. and I responded, I was like, yeah, he's going to finish the day with like 300 yards, three touchdowns. They're going to win.

He didn't have three touchdowns, but they still won the game. Like, Kirk makes that play. And the moment he does, you're like, oh, yes, that's the signal that the Vikings are now going to score 23 points and win the game. It's what truly unlocks them. Like, once they get over the Kirk knucklehead speed bump, just all systems go for the rest of the game. All right. I feel like I could talk about this game for 45 more minutes, but we got to get to winners and losers. any final words before we let you go.

Dolphins. AFC East Champions, baby. Here we go. Well, I heard the bills are throwing the division. That's tactical. All right. Yeah, I'll explain it later at a later time. You guys don't get it. Thank you, Ben. Bye, friends.

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They win 27 to 17 over the Jaguars. I thought this was a game with what happened in Buffalo, where the Chiefs announced themselves as the clear Super Bowl favorites. And it's not just the result in the standings now and the F.C. It's I feel like this offense has evolved. And Cadarius, Tony, his first game, I think, was as good as possible as we could have expect it. Just another layer to this offense. And I think they've been trying to figure out how to replace Tyreek Hill by committee. They've had Juju do some stuff that Tyreek used to do. They've had

MVS do some of the deeper stuff that Tyreek used to do. And now I think with Tony, they have that playmaker that they could throw the ball underneath and there's a chance that he could take it all the way. And they didn't have that before. That was the one thing I think this offense was missing, even though it was performing so well coming into this week. Like number one in EPA, I thought they were missing an edge they had over the like the previous four years or whatever where they could score on any touch they lost that with tyreek i think they got it back with tony i want to say i'm interested to see how they continue to evolve his role because i think there's a lot of different directions they can go with it but like the the catch he made on the sideline the contested catch

over two jaguars defenders i thought was like a play that i didn't necessarily know he knew he had in him and it was almost tyriek-esque like he just julya's jumped out of nowhere, caught the ball, contested catch. I don't think that Mahomes would have trusted either of the other receivers in that situation. But the fact that he already has that trust with Tony is such a big development. Was that the one where he ended up hopping like one leg down the sideline? Or was that the first one? That was like a checkdown.

By the way. That like just for a player with his injury history, you can't do that stuff. It makes people so nervous. I was like, what's going on? get hurt. Oh, no, he just did that on purpose. Because it's okay now. Everything's okay. He's got a role and it works. Yeah, when you've played like 15 minutes of football over like the first couple of years of three, you can't do that. You can't hop on one foot. It's not cool. Um, yeah, that was, he was super, super impressive. I think in the, the Titans game, he had like three

touches and just wasn't really a part of the offense. But close to 100 scrimmage yards, um, they used him on jet sweep. Uh, I think you're right that it's just very cool to see him look good in this offense because, you know, look, Cadarious Tony is not Tyree Kill. But if defenses feel like they can play a lot of man against them just because they don't have the sort of game breakers, he'll help them. He'll help them down the line. And games like this, right, like the more he can put it on tape where it's like, no, you really do have to watch out for that guy. and you have to watch out for him in all of these different ways where, like, he'll get a downfield target, but he's also going to run on a jet sweep and they can do all this different stuff with him.

Like, that helps in how defenses have to prepare for them as well as helping just on the field. And I thought the defense was impressive, too, the line especially. Chris Jones, like, I thought even coming into this week should have gotten some defensive player of the year love. but after this game, his name should be on the list. He led the charge, but the whole pass rush, like the four-man rush, they're not blitzing as much as they used to. And I think it's because they have this pass rush where they don't have to do that.

And they could do more stuff on the back end and coverage to protect those corners, which is like a big deal for them. But yeah, Chris Jones, Carloftus, Dunlap is making plays. He's had a couple big sacks over the last two weeks. This is a good team. And it's hard right now to find weaknesses outside of that cornerback position.

and even the young corners are playing better than I would have expected. It does seem like they're kind of pulling away a little bit. Like Mahomes is MVP, them just as sort of the major Super Bowl contender team to be kind of like they've hit their stride. And I do think the Tony element is going to be important. My first winner is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers who oversees, Germany beat the Seahawks 21 to 16. I'm a little bit, I have a little bit of trepidation to not get too overboard about what this means for them going forward. I mean, look, I think

they have kind of an unsurmountable lead in the NFC South at this point. So they're five and five. They're probably going to, going to be a play. Yes, it's one game, but I think it's insurmountable. But the important thing was that Brady only got hit once. And you kind of see. a blueprint for how they can piece things together if he's just not getting hit constantly. Now, that's not going to be a given, right? But all of a sudden, when he's just not getting hit on every other throw, it's like, okay, the Seahawks secondary is no joke, but Godwin, Evans, Julio is doing some stuff. You start to remember all of the things that the Bucks offense has going for it.

Now, I still think they're leaving points on the field. I know the Seahawks rushing defense is very bad, but I think the commitment to early down runs is still costing them points. They ran 69 total plays. 34 of them were early down runs. That was the only negative split they had in terms of EPA per play. I get it as part of the game plan a little bit just because of how that Seahawks defensive front has adjusted in ways that asked their linebackers to fit the run a little bit.

I can see the reasons for it. I still am like, okay, if Brady didn't go 10 of 15 on third down, this might be a little bit bigger of an issue that you cost yourself points in this area. But they got away with it. They got away with some silly stuff like splitting Brady out wide and having the Seahawks end up with Tariq Wollin,

who ran a 4.26 on him. Tom Brady did not run a 4.26. So this is not me saying, I think all of a sudden this offense is scary and clicking, but I think you can see the blueprint for what they can do if he's just not under tons and tons and tons of pressure. Yeah, I think the bucks, like their run game today, just shows how bad it had been in the past because it was just like functional, but it felt like it was so much better than it had been over the first two months. of the season. And I do think that, like, allowed them to do, like, the runs were bad. Like, they weren't productive by EPA, right? But I think that it allowed them to get into their play

action game a little more. Like, maybe they were, they were more willing to call those, those plays. And it was, it was Brady's highest time to throw of the season. And like you said, he didn't really get hit. So that's a good thing. It was his highest time to throw since 2020, actually. And I think the reason for that was they called a lot more play action. It was as most, most throws on play action targeting the middle of the field, most completions, most yards per attempt. Like this is what the offense was in the past. It was that type of offense. It attacked the middle of the field. They haven't been able to do that. But I think today they found a formula. And yes, I don't think this means that like they've turned their season around. They're Super Bowl

contenders again. But like you said, I think there's a path moving forward where this team might be hitting its stride when January comes around. Yeah. I mean, they're just not, they're not cooked. Right? Like, we can maybe talk about the Packers a little bit in this way, too. The Rams of those sort of NFC powerhouses, like the RAM season is done, right? Like, there's just nothing there. That's not what's going on here.

There's things that are starting to work and the things that are starting to work kind of show us some buttons they can keep pressing. And particularly in that week of division. Are we worried about Seattle at all? I feel like I'm not like Gino looked fine. I know like things didn't break their way. The fumble was bad in the red zone. But like he made a bunch of high level throws. And I thought the offense was still like it moved the ball well.

It was just like a game where funny things happened. And it was a game in Europe. Like I'm not too concerned with the loss. I'm not that concerned with the offense. Even though they only scored 16 points. I thought the buck's defense looked pretty good. I think the only thing to watch. And look, allowing 21 points is no.

is no horrible tragedy, but I do think that the one thing about all of those runs is that the game script was going to lead to a pretty low scoring game. And the bucks, they converted a lot on third down, but they moved the ball pretty well. The only thing,

just because we know how badly that Seahawks defense started the season, I'm a little bit on coming back down to Earthwatch for them, just because a lot of it had been the transformation of that front, being able to get more penetration. And I think the play action made a big difference,

but they were obviously not doing that against a pretty weak offensive line. So I think that's something to watch. If I have cause for concern with Seattle, it's with the defense, not in the offense, even though it was a low scoring game. But I'm with you. There's a lot of weirdness about all of the travel

and the time difference and all of that stuff. Yeah. I'll go with my next loser. The Dallas Cowboys, they lose to a Packer's team that looked broken coming off last week. the loss to the lions, they bounce back and beat a six and two Cowboys team in overtime, 31 to 28. But I thought the real story of this game was, did Green Bay turn Aaron Rogers into Jimmy G?

Well, okay, give, he had six passes at halftime. He finished the game with 20, 20 pass. Yes, and very much no, though, right? Right. Because they have totally embraced the run game. Rogers threw the ball 20 times. Aaron Jones. I forgot how many carries he had.

24 carries, 138 yards. 24 carries driving force of their offense. But how Rogers is playing when they are passing is like not at all. No, of course not. The Lefleur, Shanahan stuff is like totally gone back to old McCarthy Rogers. So stagnant. It's just like I'm going to choose the receiver that I like the most and throw down

field and hope something comes of it. I think that's still like the third down, like the obvious passing. situation approach. But what we saw this week, and I think it's a big development, is they started to play offense like you would expect a LaFloor style offense to look like this. It wasn't the Rogers style of offense. They were under center a lot. 24 under center runs the most on the season. Second most was 19. They had 10 last week. 47% play action rate for Rogers. 47, they turned him into Kirk Cousins. And it worked. And like, he's a good quarterback. I get a bunch of questions like, why is Aaron Rogers still in your top 10?

of your quarterback rankings because when you watch them play like yes there are some ugly plays but there are still like five to ten plays where he looks like an MVP type player and we saw that in some key situations today even though Green Bay didn't ask much of him the fourth and seven season on the line he goes to Christian Watson who had three touchdowns big game for the rookie but I thought that was that was a play that mattered because you go to the rookie that was like the play was drawn up for him and that speaks to not only the trust that Rogers has to throw it to the rookie, but also Matt LaFlorida dial that play up. And you have to imagine that Rogers had some input there. But the fact that

they're trusting Watson right now is a good sign. He had four catches, 170 yards, three touchdowns. It seemed like they were all against man coverage. And I thought that was another story of this game is Green Bay finally figured out how to beat man coverage in this game. Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's really interesting. And I think the broadcast is pointing out how Rogers's completion percentage over expectation numbers have really flipped the last few weeks. There's something going on with that offense that's a little bit more effective than the early part of the season where they really, really struggled.

I am very curious to see if they can keep this up because you're totally right. They're using more play action. He's under center a lot when they're running the ball. But there is still this element when it's like a clear and obvious passing. down that is totally like the motion has gone away. And I'm not saying that's bad. Like it's, it's, it. Rogers seems like he's more comfortable with it and it's working better. And in those situations, he's more willing to trust the receivers that he has and go to the rookies.

And that's fine. And that's good. And that's what they need to do. So I'm, I'm not saying that that's a negative. It actually seems like it, these odd pieces are kind of working together in a way. But because we haven't seen it the entire season, I'm very curious to see if it'll continue. Yeah, and there still is some concerns. Like on 12 non-play action dropbacks, Rogers wasn't very good. 5.5 yards per play. Right.

Negative 0.2 EPA per dropback. So like there's still that part of the offense that's missing. The part of the offense that was better because they had Devante Adams, they no longer have that guy. I don't think that's going to be fixed overnight. But there's like this option they have, like this run game under center play action, turning Rogers into, he's not a game manager, obviously. But you're asking him.

to do less on early downs. And I think that's viable for them to get back into the wildcard race, at least that that division is long gone. But I still think there's a chance that they could turn this around. That they could turn it around and be a wildcard team. Yeah. Yeah. I still just get a little bit worried when like,

look, that two minute drill was really, really bad. They moved so slowly. And that's where like I'm pretty convinced that if the quarterback is more bought in to having, those elements of the passing game be what they do, that's better overall.

I'm not sure that that's necessarily better than having everybody work together and design an offense that has the best of everything. Like, I don't think that eliminating motion from what they do is necessarily a great idea. But it does seem to be what he wants to do, so that's fine. But yeah, I mean, look,

the Cowboys defense is certainly no joke. I think this was the first game of his career that Parsons didn't have a quarterback hit. So there was something effective about what they were doing. And I'd like to see them keep it up. But probably their most impressive game of the season, definitely. And I think this is like a pattern for the Cowboys defense now. We saw this in the Eagles game where offenses are mitigating the threat of that pass rush, which I think is like the reason why the defense is so good

by getting the ball out quick and attacking the perimeter specifically. We saw that in the Eagles game. The Eagles naturally do that with the way they run offense because they run the RPO's. They throw the screen passes. Then obviously like Jalen Hertz gets out on the edge and runs. But I thought the Packers were able to replicate that game plan

through the lens of their own offense. And it worked and you're seeing the pass rush not have as much time to get home. And then they have to think of so many different things. Like if it's play action, is it a run play? Is it a screen play? Like you attack this defense on early downs because if you get to late downs, as we saw in this game too, it's hard because it's hard to block that defensive line. So I think there is like a bit of a blueprint for beating this Cowboys defense or like getting

some points on it that we've seen and teams might start to replicate that going forward. That's my concern about the Cowboys from this game. And then also like things just look so hard for them on offense. Like why does everything have to look so hard? And I think like the two picks that Dak threw kind of were emblematic of that because you have this miscommunication on both plays. Like on the first one, I'm not sure who's the blame, but C.D. Lamb, Dalton Schultz, both running a route into the same window. And I don't know who DAC expected to break across the safety space, but it didn't happen. Rudy Ford gets the pick.

Same thing happens again later in the game. CD Lamb doesn't break across the safety space. Rudy Ford steps in front of him. It gets a pick. But like that's what those things happen. when you ask your receiver and your quarterback to be on the same page and do all these things after the snap, I think the lesson that I wanted the Cowboys to learn from Cooper Rush playing, they haven't learned. They're still putting too much on Dax plate and still asking him to do too much.

What did you think of the McCarthy decision to go for it on the overtime drive? Honestly, I liked it. I liked it. If he didn't do it, I would have complained about it. I wouldn't have trust the defense and they proved why on the next drive. like they just worked the Packers march right down. I would put the ball in Dak Prescott's hands. First and goal from the eight on the following drive kind of proves his point, right? Like it shouldn't be about the results.

It should be about the process. But the results say that if you kick a field goal there, you're probably still losing the game because if they get that close to the end zone that quickly and they have to score a touchdown, they probably could have. Yeah. All right.

My first loser. the Las Vegas Raiders. I quote to you from at Saturday Jeff on Twitter this past October 30th when Jeff Saturday was notably employed in a different occupation. Here's the tweet. Very simple. Raiders look horrible. Correct.

Jeff. The Colts beat Las Vegas 25 to 20 in the first. win of the Saturday era. They are 1 and 0 on his watch. Matt Ryan back in the starting role. I don't have all that much in terms of on-field takeaways from this. The more important thing is just if you lose

to the Jeff Saturday Colts, as Josh McDaniels, the guy who spurned the Colts organization because you were too precious to lose for New England and you didn't think that it was the right place for you to go and hit your way. wagon too. Oh, man. Is that a bad look? And what I actually think is that how badly things are going in Las Vegas is going to end up impacting more what happens to Derek Carr, whose days there are probably numbered because they are going to have a scapegoat for this. And it's going to be

him because it's not going to be McNaniels because they're just not going to pay for that buyout, I don't think. But it is, it was hard to imagine, even if it was easy enough to imagine things not going that well there this season. It would have been hard to imagine it getting this bad, this quickly. And there were a lot of people, Carr included, who were very, very visibly going through it after that game. And I just think we should all recognize what a low point.

for that organization this loss was. Yeah, I mean, three days ago, the Colts with the laughing stock of the NFL, and then you just lost to them. And it wasn't like a fluke loss either, which is the worst part. And I wonder, I do wonder, is this loss like hitting rock bottom? And this has to be rock bottom. I hope it's rock bottom. Does this like give them the confidence to finally move off Derek Carr?

I think it does because they have that escape. in his contract. It's already built in. And it's been like a, like a will they or won't they question since like they hired John Gruden, really, whether they were going to move on from car or not. And I think like now, he will be used as a scapegoat unfairly. But I do think that this is proof that he's just not a guy that you could pay that much money and expect him to carry a team. Like he has weapons. I know the system isn't working out well. I know the offensive line is bad. But they had a good run game early on in the year. They have very. plenty of weapons and he's played poorly. Like, there's no way around it. He's played poorly. It's like been the worst version of Derek Carr. And I know it's a new system. But I mean, I think they have to move on at this point. And also, if I'm Frank Craig, I'm feeling really hard done. Like, why did he get to start Matt Ryan? And I didn't. Why did I have to start Sam Ellinger? Are you serious? It is very unfair. Maybe we overlooked, um, we overlooked the benefit of the owner

hiring his friend, which is just that he might actually listen to his friend if his friend's like, hey, listen. I'm thinking about starting Matt. Thinking about starting the good quarterback. Matt Ryan scrambled for 39 yards. The Raiders like should just, they all leave town. It's over. It's been a good run.

Matt Ryan scrambled for 39 yards. Unbelievable. You can't let that happen. The old's had a good day today. The olds have not had a lot of good days this season, but the old's had a good day today. Rogers. They bounce back. Brady.

Stafford didn't have to play. So that was his best day. That was his best week, not having to play. All right. Who's your next winner? I got the Lions, 31 to 30. The divisional matchup, they win their third place in the division now. They're out of the basement.

They, they top the Bears. It's hard saying this is a major W for the Lions because they did allow, Justin Fields to just run wild, just do whatever he wanted to. And I've never seen a team defend the option this poorly over the last decade. This was like 2010 NFL trying to figure it out against Cam Newton and RG3 and all those guys early on. They've had 10 years to figure out how to defend the read option. And it wasn't like this like these new age read options where there's like pulling guards and like the tight end is doing like an arc block. This isn't like Lincoln Riley read options. This is like,

basic ass rich rodriguez in 2007 zone read just destroying the the lines in 2022 i don't understand but i think like this just proves this team just like never gives up man they just never give up they just play for dan campbell and i think that the fact that the offense has played well this year is proof that he he deserves another year he deserves a chance to hire another defensive coordinator because it has not gone well for that defense since they hired him erin glenn like i Aaron Glenn is a cool coach. He tries cool stuff on defense, but the defense is just poorly coach. There's no way around it.

It's just poorly coached. Maybe he wasn't ready to be a coordinator, which is fine. Like he was a fine secondary coach in New Orleans. I don't know. But this was a good win for them. And I think it was a better day because the Rams lose. The Rams have the third worst point differential in the NFL right now. What is it?

Like it's like the seventh pick right now. It could drop to the third pick if they lose another game. This was a big day for Detroit. And like Jared golf is Jared golf, but maybe you're going to be able to draft a quarterback. The Rams continue on this path. This is the Lions first road win since Matthew Stafford was their quarterback. It's pretty good. I will say the most exciting moment of, I have to thank the Lions defensive incompetence on some level.

Because just the Justin Field's 67-yard run like foot race away from. Defecuto was in thralling television. Just enthralling stuff. Every time Justin Fields took off, it was enthralling. It is very fun. I'm like I'm turning around on Justin Fields. I canceled him earlier in the year. I did not know he, I did not know that he was Michael Vick.

Okay. He didn't do this in college. He didn't do it over his first two years. I didn't know this was going to happen. Nobody told Stephen. And yeah, yeah, I look like an idiot right now, even though he still can't throw. Let's let's, let's, he kind of like. through the game away.

But why did it take this long for the Bears coaching staff? Two coaching staffs now to go. Two separate. Maybe let's run him on some designed runs. Did they not see him be this fast in practice? Did he never like sprint in practice at any point? They're like, whoa, he would be hard to catch. Maybe we should run him.

It is possible that getting to watch Jeff Saturday just be like, maybe we should start the good quarterback is going to reveal something about NFL coaching. I'm just saying. I'm just saying it's a possibility. But good win. Good win. Dan Campbell, I'm happy for you. Speaking of good wins, another one goes to the New York Giants who beat the Houston Texans. The Giants have an 82% chance to make the playoffs. You slacked this to me, Stephen. If they beat Detroit next week, it becomes 89%.

If they beat Washington two weeks after that at home, it becomes 96% even if they lose to the Cowboys in between. they're making the playoffs. They're making the playoffs. Honestly, the fact that the giants are, the giants based on their record and the historical performance of teams with the same record, the giants would have a greater chance

of making the playoffs based on that. It's just that they are in a division with the undefeated team, so it changes everything. But we're going to see this team in the playoffs almost certainly. I don't have a ton to say about beating the Texans.

Houston's run defense is terrible. Sequin had a good day. I thought their defensive line looked really impressive in this. That was probably the biggest thing was just that they were, they looked really spicy up front. That's exciting, particularly because the secondary obviously needs help there. So the more that they can do that, the scarier I think that that team is. Daniel Jones was kind of shaky.

We know what they are offensively at this point, but they still just keep winning, right? So we'll see. I think they're the type of team that it just depends who the draw is. They could so, so easily be won and done. But look, there's already, what, seven teams in the NFL that haven't been able to beat the Giants and some of them are pretty decent. Texans are not really on that list for me. But they'll be interesting.

Yeah. And like their point differential isn't that bad. Like you think their win, their win loss record is fluky, but they have a better point differential than And not better, but it's like in line with the Seahawks and no one is really questioning the Seahawks anymore. So I think we need to like stop sleeping on the Giants a little bit and get ready for Daniel Jones to start a playoff game. Which is there ever, has there ever been a better candidate for the Nickelodeon game? Daniel Jones was was born to win an MVP. My first image of and forever lasting image of Daniel Jones was his rookie season they played in Foxborough.

they played the Patriots. And you know what NFL players like to dress up on game day, which makes all the sense of the world. They get photographed a ton. They get videotaped when they're walking through the tunnel. So usually there's some pretty flashy outfits. Or even if it's not flashy, it's just like Tom Brady's wearing a very nice suit and a big watch and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Daniel Jones walks in. This man is wearing a north face vest carrying a Jansport backpack. the uniform of like every guy I went to college with. And I was just like, that's something I've never seen. I've never seen that from an NFL player in this context. And that guy's going to start a playoff game. And I'm happy for him. He's different.

He's a trailblazer. He's built different. But Brian Dayball, is he favored for Coach of the Year now? I guess Kevin O'Connell is going to ride this thing out. Coach of the year is spicy. Like, coach, I don't know the actual. answer on the betting markets to that question. But coach of the years are really, really, really, really interesting race. Like Mike McDaniel is at like 10 to 1 odds. He's like fifth

place and that just shows you out deep to races. But I think, and speaking of Mike McDaniel, my next winner or is it a loser? I don't even know. I think you know it's a loser. I think you're supposed to do a loser. But if you want to be extra positive, Stephen, you're welcome to do that. I will never be positive with the Miami Dolphins. I'm sorry. I'm giving the Browns a loss here. And I'm giving them a losses because they allowed the dolphins to be a running team. for the first time all year, we got to see this offense hit its apex. This is like if the dolphins could actually run against every other team that wasn't the Browns,

the Browns are just a horrible defense that doesn't know how to fit the run. It was just watching the game back. Which is wild because they play against their offense in practice. Yeah, maybe it's like a confidence thing. Like they beat up so bad in practice. They're like, oh, God, we're losers. We're going to lose every game.

But like even just watching the game, the linebackers are like running. away from the running backs. It makes no sense. And they've invested so much in this defense for this defense to be good. Like in the secondary, they've spent money on free agents. They spent draft picks. They've re-signed Denzel Ward. They obviously paid a lot of money to Miles Garrett. They drafted him with the first overall pick. They've signed multiple free agents. They traded for guys on the defensive line. Jadavian Clownie's there. They resigned him. And the defense just stinks. And like you have to blame it on the coordinator at this point. Like Joe Woods

has had, I think this is his third year, fourth year, and the defense just isn't getting better. And allowing this Dolphins offense to, like, go off is, it's not like a shameful thing to happen. But when you allow them to run the way that they ran the ball, something that we haven't seen all year. Well, part of that is Wilson, right? They've changed the personnel and they're able to do the San Francisco stuff a little bit more effectively. But the lanes are just wide open. And yeah, it is, I think having, now they have these two old,

49ers running backs in there. They have Moster. They have Wilson. They got rid of Chase Edmonds, who was like the worst running back in the NFL by advanced metrics. And I think that's made a difference. But Miami office line just dominated Cleveland's front. And then Tua was good.

Like this was Tua's best game to me. I'm not going to take anything away from Tua. Like I could talk about like the Tyree Kill and his gravity and Mike McDaniel and what he's drawing up. But this was a good game for Tua. It wasn't even a big Tyree Kill game. Maybe like two questionable throws. if that.

I don't think it was a bad game for him. And yeah, like you said, Tyrick Hill didn't really go off. It was Trent Sherfield was really like the main target for him. 63 yards, a touchdown, beautiful pass from Tua. It was a good game.

They are 49ers thing so hard. Yeah, and it's working. It's working. But the dolphins are good. They're going to win the EFC East. I agree with Solac, what he said earlier in the pod.

They're going to win the EFC East. And they should because the bills should. I don't think Solac said that. He did. Before you left. Oh, did he say that before you, it was that the verbal equivalent of putting it on his whiteboard. All right. We'll roll the tape back.

Two is now first an EPA per passing play among quarterbacks. Still not MVP. Still not MVP. He's not my MVP either, but I just want you to know that. Last three games, nine touchdowns zero interceptions. Trust me, I know. You probably have a better handle on Tua's stats than any other person, like, than Mike McDaniel. Yeah, like if I tweet anything about anything in the NFL, like a Dolphins fan's going to figure out a way to make it seem like I'm trying to take credit away from two.

I could be like, oh my God, look at that throw by Patrick Mahomes. And they'd be like, oh, oh, I thought he needed Tyreek Hill. Like Tyreek Hill is fine in Miami. Every time. I'm on your side, buddy, but I don't feel bad for you. No, I don't. I pick the Dolphins to make the playoffs before the season, by the way. I deserve all this.

Yeah, you deserve it. What you don't deserve is how bad this Chargers team is, Stephen. My final L of the evening comes from 49ers, 22, Chargers 16. Chargers get the L for getting shut out in the second half. For as Rockies their season, Ben, they had a chance to move to six and three, weren't able to cut it. I'm not sure I learned anything I didn't know before about either side in this, but I have an additional L to hand out, which is for me, because I have to stop being surprised when Kyle Shanhan or Sean McVeigh does something weirdly conservative,

like kicking a field goal to go up six with a minute left. Like, I'm not even, it's a bad decision. It's a horrible decision. It shouldn't have happened. There are all sorts of reasons for that. I don't feel like I can even be mad at him. I'm just mad at me because I should know better than to think something different is going to happen.

And I'm surprised every time. obviously the Hufanga interception makes it okay. But why are you doing that stuff, man? I just don't get it. But I'm trying to accept it. It makes no sense. The funniest thing was that they came. It was fourth and two, fourth and goal from the two from the three.

And they come out and they try to draw them off sides, which would not be an automatic first down. So they were like trying to draw a team offside just to have a shorter fourth down. I don't think I've ever seen that before. Yard and a half. And the chargers had no timeouts. you're basically making them go for a touchdown. You're incentivizing them to go for the win in regulation instead of them just going for a field goal. So like the worst case scenario, if the charges miraculously like go down the field, get into field goal range, first of all, their kickers not very good.

They sign them off the street like two weeks ago. Right. They have no receivers. They're down their top two receivers, down their top tight end, down their top two offensive tackles. they would have to drive from the two-yard line. It made no sense whatsoever. And these are the decisions that are going to cost them a chance at a Super Bowl. This is what Shanahan does every time he goes into the playoffs on a big stage.

He needs to fix that part of his coaching approach. I'm taking like a Buddhist approach here. It's not that I disagree with you. I just, I have to take myself out of it. I have to take my own emotions out of the situation. It's causing me too much pain. And by the way, Jimmy G. third down. Playmaker. Where did that come from? I'm like, playmaker. Maybe he's, he's Aaron Rogers now.

Oh, I like this. Can you imagine? We would have to, for this to be true, we would have to disregard much of Jimmy Garablo's on field play. Yes. From the last several months of the year. But that's okay. We can do that. Stephen, should we close it out with our non-headline story of the day? Yeah, let's do it. What is it? All right. This is just, this is just a, a friendly pointer to our guy Jonathan Vilma, part of the broadcast crew for Cardinals

Rams today, who mistakenly identified Gwen Stefani as a member of the black eyed peas, which first of all is an affront to Dolphins minority owner, Fergie. But really the reason we needed to bring this up is that we ran

the ringer NFL test on this mishap, which is basically asking Ben Solac if he could have correctly identified who Fergie is. And Ben said that he could pull Fergie out of a lineup. And that tells us that this is, you know, we can't be doing that. I don't believe him. Just so he knows for next time.

I don't believe him. Can we set this up? You don't believe Ben? I'm setting this up. I'm putting together like a picture of like five people that look vaguely like Fergie. And let's see if he can do it. Because I'm calling bullshit.

One of them needs, I think one of them needs to be Gwen Stefani. Oh, yeah. That's good. That's good point. All right. Well, we'll run that data and get back to you guys. But just a friendly reminder to Jonathan Wally's calling the game that if Ben Zalak's showing you up on being able to identify pop culture figures, I mean, come on, we got to do better

than that. How do you not know the difference between those two? It's not like Vilma's old. He's, are young. I know. He grew up. He should know Fergie. He should really know Fergie.

They were both like big stars when. he was like in his youth. Yeah. No, yeah. I'm not giving him a pass. And like, Fergie had the National Anthem thing. They're both pretty visible as like the female members of, of mostly male groups.

Like. Right. Yeah. I think that I think Fox should do the right thing. It's to spend him for a week. No, no broadcasts. All right. On that note, this has been the ringer NFL show.

Thank you so much for listening. Next up in the feed, we will have Sheel. and Ben with extra point taken their deep dive into week 10. Thank you, as always, to Isaiah Blakely for production on this episode and to Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.