The Ringer NFL Show - Week 12 Power Rankings: Cowboys and Niners Ascend, and the Dysfunctional Cardinals | Power Rankers

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

Austin is joined by Steven Ruiz to discuss the change in the power rankings following Week 11. First, they discuss the top tier of playoff contenders in the NFL (01:41), including the Cowboys (07:18) and 49ers (11:20). Then, they discuss the dysfunction in Arizona (19:54) and whether Jalen Hurts can lead the Eagles to championship contention (27:36). Finally, they discuss their game of the week (37:48) and the suspect play of Zach Wilson (49:33). Host: Austin Gayle Guest: Steven Ruiz Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Missa Kwanga and I'm Ryan Hunt and we co-host Stadio, a football podcast, on the Ring of Podcast Network. Twice a week, Musa and I talk about the goings on in men's and women's football around Europe and sometimes around the world. We like to zoom in, we like to zoom out, we like to make some silly references.

So if you like soccer or football, make sure you search for Stadio, a football podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I think we got it? Yep, that's good. Welcome into the Ringer NFL show. Guess who's scared to compete. again. It is Jason Goff. Jason Goff. He literally hits me up this morning. He's like, yeah,

man, can't make it. Unexpected plans. This motherfucker. Like, this guy's just bailing on me. Absolutely bailing on me. I can't believe it. Holiday weekend, two days before Thanksgiving, unexpected. What came up? Well, hungover, Jason Goff? I need to hear it. He's terminally scared to compete. It's tough. It's tough. But I do love when we do get to do, I do love when we do get to do the full show together because it allows me to rip, you know, rip into your brain a little bit on some of the teams at large more than just the quarterbacks. We're still going to do some quarterback conversation at the end of the show. I don't know how much of it will be Zach Wilson, maybe all of it, maybe some Mike White, maybe some Joe Flacco. Who knows who we're going to bring up.

But I wanted to begin the intro with leveraging, I leverage a lot of 538's playoff predictions model in the latest power rankings file for the ringer.com. You can always check out my weekly power rankings if you go to the ringer.com. And right now, there are only 17 NFL teams. So 14 total go to the playoffs. 17 NFL teams with a better than 30% chance to make the postseason according to Friday 38th mile. So it's tight. It's tight in terms of who we are going to expect playing in the postseason. In the top of my list, the first three teams, how I have it is those three I think are the best chance to get a first round by and have the easiest path to a Super Bowl.

Those are the Philadelphia Eagles, Kansas Chiefs, Buffalo Bills. What does the buy matter? All should matter is team strength. having the buy week is everything. Having the buy week improves your Super Bowl odds significantly. It's easier to win two games to get to the Super Bowl than it is to win three. So Eagles, Bills, Bills, those are the three teams that I think have the best path to a buy, right? Bills are still in the race, even though the Chiefs are eight and two, and the bills are seven and three.

And then the four teams after that, the Miami Dolphins at four, the Niners at five, the Ravens at six, and the Cowboys at seven. Those are the four teams that I think are most capable of knocking off those Super Bowl contenders without the first round. by because I don't think any of those four teams have an obvious path to it. I think everyone else, maybe there's some people who get into the playoffs and lose in the early rounds. I don't know. I think it's down to those seven teams. I think it's those seven teams that are going to win the Super Bowl this year. It's Eagles, Chiefs, Bills, Dolphins, Niners, Ravens, Cowboys. I'm leaving the Vikings out. I'm leaving the Titans out. I'm leaving Brady and the Bucks out. Seattle Seahawks, the G-Men, the Giants, the Bengals. I think it's those seven teams. Am I wrong

to kind of have, I'm probably going to look stupid when a team like the Cincinnati Bengals a year ago, you know, rises up the ranks, wins as a wildcar team against the Super Bowl. But I really do think it's down to those seven teams that are legitimately competing for Lombardi this year. Yeah, I agree with, I agree that it's only a group of seven. I might, I might be willing to put the Bengals up a little higher. I think that's the one team that has a chance of embarrassing you. And I, I don't know, like, it's not based on anything we've seen this far.

It's like really based on what you just said. like last year they went on this run. I know they have that ceiling in them. Like for me, it comes down to which team can I actually like visualize winning the Super Bowl? And like I don't have to visualize the Bengals getting close to that.

We know they have those pieces. When Jamar Chase comes back, I think the defense is playing. Okay, last week was a little suspect. I don't think it was like a real red flag for me. But the offense is coming on. That's the one team. But every other team,

like the Vikings, I'm just so glad that that game happened, how it happened, that we don't have to acknowledge this talk anymore. Like, you know what you saw over the first, what was it, 10 weeks. Like, you knew this wasn't a playoff or a Super Bowl contender. And I think it just made it abundantly clear on Sunday. I have been very reluctant to run any kinds of victory laps around not having the Vikings

ahead of the Buffalo Bills after they beat the Buffalo Bills. I had multiple Vikings fans upset with the write-up that I had in saying, you know, the ball bounced their way in this one. They're not the better football team. They're not in this top tier of three teams. The Eagles, the chiefs the bills. They're not there yet. They're not there yet.

Middle of the pack and efficiency, both offensively and defensively, Kirk struggling both on early downs and an obvious passing situation. I think you're right to start to call out a little bit Kevin O'Connell. Because Kirk Cousins has always been Kirk cousins, and you've said this before. The efficiency is down because the offense has changed significantly. And how much of that is, you know, Kevin O'Connell, how much of that is Kirk? You'd have to go back in the tape and look at that bit further. But, bam, this Vikings team got absolutely trounced against the captain.

We're going to talk about them a little bit later, but it's, it was, it was not, not shocking to see them lose. They were opened as one and a half point dogs at home. That line closed it two. And I thought that this Cowboys team was going to go into Minnesota and beat them, but I did not predict an absolute blowout. They were leading 37 to three, I think with like seven minutes remaining the third. Like they were absolutely blowing them out. They obviously finished the game winning 42, three. I had one more point on the Bengals, you brought them up.

or I brought them up as maybe not being a Super Bowl contender. Ben Solac and Sheel had this conversation on the Tuesday episode of this podcast talking about the Chidobiae injury and how that may be really difficult for them to overcome. As good as Lou Anarumo has been this year, really difficult for them to overcome as they go against better offenses in the postseason, right? Letting Pittsburgh and Kitty Picket and the Steelers beat up on you and your outside quarterbacks is one thing. When you get to the playoffs and go against the bills and go against the Chiefs, these other teams

that have better receiving talent. Better quarterbacks, starting Cam Taylor Britt at right outside cornerback for 48 steps is not going to get it done, right? Cam Britt and Eli Apple, Mike Hilton, I really like as a slot defender, but man, those two outside cornerbacks scream disaster. It's going to be harder and harder for as good as Lou Aneruma has been

to scheme out of, you know, those players not being like true one-on-one, you know, match-up winners. No, that's definitely a concern. I just think the ceiling for the offense is a lot higher than it was last year even. Even last year, there were problems that they don't have this year. The offensive line is still like an issue, I guess, but I just think it's better. The run game, they figured out ways to run the ball at least, and I think that's a big key for this team.

But we saw last year during the playoff run, it wasn't the offense I was carrying them. It was the defense. And I think this year you have a chance to kind of flip the script a little bit because the defense has kind of been carrying the load for an offense that has been inconsistent. Like there's been a lot of highs. Like Sunday was another high. The Falcons game was a high. the Panthers game was a high. The Jets game was a high.

Other than that, though, there have been a lot of lows too. But I think, like, as we go down the stretch, you're going to figure it out a little bit. But I want to talk about the Cowboys. Because I thought as much as us too specifically are going to use that game as an illustration of the Vikings not being what people thought they might have been. I think this really is an illustration of what the Cowboys

not only could be, but I think what they will become. And I said this on a pod, I think it was last week, When you watch them on film, when you watched it after Dak Prescott came back, you could see that they were just like a little bit off. They were like a foot off, like a second off, and that the offense was going to explode eventually. And then we saw this week. And I think it makes sense, like intuitively. Dak Prescott is a timing quarterback.

He's a processor. He's an accurate quarterback. Like, and those things have to be maintained. Like, you can't just come off the bench, come step onto the field and then throw with timing and accuracy with players that you haven't been practicing. width for the past month. So I think it made sense that there were some growing pains if we want to call on that. But now the way Dan Quinn has this defense playing, I don't think it's like a fluke. The way DAC is operating now with this offense, which I don't think is missing to Mari Cooper

as much as I thought it might be, it might this year. And then figuring out the right balance between Ezekiel Elliott and Tony Pollard, I don't want to get into that discussion. I think they both have their strengths and weaknesses. And there's reasons why Ezekiel Elliott is on the field more often than people would like. but everything's coming together for this team. My question is how is Mike McCarthy going to screw it up? Because that's always the question.

Yeah, yeah. I think so in that game, Dallas Cowell always went 42-3. Dak Prescott had three passes falling complete with 22 of 25 for 276 and two touchdowns. Tony Pollard and Zeeke both had 15 carries. Pollard had 80 yards. Zeke had 42. And then Pollard, obviously, another 100 plus yards in receiving. He had both of Dax touchdowns in that game.

And I think that I underrated. the weapons that Dallas has in, you know, especially after week one. You know, once Cooper Rush came in, I think a lot of me forgot to even pay attention. Dallas Cowboys kind of just like called them out of it, right? They're done. The Dallas Cowboys are done. Dak's going to be gone for six weeks. Cooper Rush isn't going to keep this thing together.

Like, it's awful against the Tampa Buccaneers. I think looking at now you have Tony Pollard, you obviously have Sequel Elliott, C.D. Lamb. I think that, you know, Michael Gallup's back healthy. Dalton Shult is one of the better tight ends in the NFL. Like this weaponry for DAC is also a lot better than me. maybe I had thought they were after week one when they got blown out by the, you know, Brady and the box in that defense that we thought was going to be a juggernaut this season. Now, when you see them hitting their stride, when you see the timing making sense.

And defensively, we haven't even talked about that side of the ball, you know, Micah Parsons on his way to a defensive player of the year campaign. Trayvon Diggs, I'll say it. He doesn't have as many picks this year, but he's playing a lot better. He's playing a lot better this year than he was last year, not giving as many explosive plays. And I think the reason he doesn't have more picks is because he's playing better, right? He's not jumping on things. He's not giving up bigger plays.

And that was always the, I remember Deonté used to work for PFF, now it works for the athletic. He's a phenomenal defensive mind. He went on an absolute tirade on Twitter, talking about how Trayvon Diggs isn't that good, and he's not having the season that you think he's having all those plays last year. Even he is saying, man, Trayvon Diggs is bawling out this year, playing a lot better.

So when you have that on the back end, up front getting pressure, this Dallas Cowboys team is very complete, almost not as complete, but it's starting to play levels of complimentary football that we were talking about with Philadelphia. earlier in the season where the quarterback is hitting, you have the weapons, you have the offensive line, defensively it's firing up.

The NFC man, between obviously the Eagles, the Cowboys, and the San Francisco 49ers, those are three talented, talented football teams. They're all winning in a lot of different ways. I think it's the most interesting part of the playoff picture right now. With the AFC, we know it's Bills and Chiefs. Could you say the dolphins are flirting? Could you say the Ravens are flirting?

Sure, but it's Dolphins Chiefs. Those are the best quarterbacks in the NFL. With the NFC, Himmy Garapolo out here bawling with the San Francisco. 490s. You have obviously, Dak Prescott hitting his drive with the Dallas Cowboys,

Minnesota Vikings falling off, and now the San Francisco 49er, or no, what is the 13th, Philadelphia Eagles, still obviously the top of the NFC. Where I want to go to next is my team of the week. One of them was the Dallas Cowboys,

I think we hit on them pretty hard. The other is the San Francisco 49ers. I think watching the game last night against Arizona Cardinals, what stands out to me so much is Kyle Shanahan might be the best coach in the NFL. might be the best coach in the NFL,

and the biggest cheat code in football right now is having a coach like Kyle Shanahan or Shanahan Light and a McDaniel that can maximize a very, very talented offense, maximize and reach the ceilings of a very talented offense because how he's leveraging Elijah Mitchell, Kyle Usich, Debo Samuel, George Kittle, Brandi, Iuke is not easy to do.

You could say that game planning offenses with a ton of talented players is easier. It's hard to manage touches for all of those guys and where you pick your spots in terms of getting the ball to are you, getting the ball to George Kittle, especially with a limited quarterback in Jimmy Garoppel. You could say if you like him or not, he's still a limited quarterback. I don't know, man. I think Kyle Shanahan is playing his way to maybe some coach of the year conversation with just how talented this offense is.

Yeah, I totally agree. And it's not just that they have talent. They have this, like, this unique collection of talent. Like, Debo Samuel is not a player that's easy to get the most out of. And he's maximizing him. or he has in the past. I don't know if you could say that he is this year. And then Christian McCaffrey, I think it's going to take some time for them to really figure out how to maximize them.

But you could see the start of that. You can see the seeds being planted. And then Elijah Mitchell, Brandon I, Yuk's having a nice breakout year. I totally agree with you. I think Kyle gets too much criticism, one, because they've lost, they lost the Super Bowl. It was very obvious that they had a chance to win. And it looks bad for Kyle. Then the Atlanta situation was also a bad look for.

him. But I even go beyond like that, like the choking stuff, like the positional value and team building stuff. We like apply these these philosophies to Kyle Shanahan whose offense I think is like different. Like it's hard to apply the same team building philosophy to say even the Buffalo builds. Like yes, that's a team that should like focus on getting receivers, focus on building up the offensive line, offensive tackles and like the positions that tend to matter across the league. But with Kyle Shanahan, his offense is different. Like the positions are different. The pieces he needs to operate it like he wants to operate it are different.

I don't think they conform to your typical team building outlook. And I think he gets a lot of crap for that from that analytics people. And then he gets crap from the more old school film people because he stops running the ball in the Super Bowl or something. I forget why they're mad at him. And I think he gets a lot of this criticism. And there's like this, there's like a subset on the internet that really thinks that Jimmy G makes him.

Like, how many times do we see the splits with and without Jimmy G on the internet? Every time. And I just, I don't know. Just use your eyes. And I think that this team is going to come together. And I still think they're in like the discovery phase of figuring out what they are on offense because of the injuries, because like Alarajum Mitchell was out. Obviously, McCaffrey wasn't on the team over the first two months.

And by the time we hit December and Kyle has this figured out. And Dameka Ryan has that defense playing and healthy. I think they're the best team in the NFC. And I know that might be a shock to people who are supporting the Eagles. They lost one game. The 49ers have lost four. But when you look at these teams on paper and how they match up in the coaching staffs, I'm convinced that the 49ers are the better team.

It's not even like without a second thought. They're the best team in the NFC right now. I think it's an interesting conversation. I think you have to, if you are ranking teams all, you know, put all, if you're ranking NFC teams, the Eagles, Cowboys, and Niners are sort of the three most competitive. How you want to rank them. I think some people would have the. Cowboys over the Niners. Some people obviously would have the Eagles up top with the fewest losses of any of those teams.

But when you look at how Philly has struggled of late with some injuries to Dallas Goddard and some others, like it's interesting to see the margin of error erode or or get thinner for the Philadelphia Eagles as injuries stack up. And Jalen Hertz isn't playing at the level he was to start the season, while margin for error for the Cowboys and for the Niners start to widen as they get hit their stride at the latter parts of the season at a Christian McCaffrey. and someone I don't think we bring up enough who I really liked coming out of the draft who I think fell for like off-field stuff or whatever I don't even want to speak to that. Like, Juan Jennings,

coming out of Tennessee. Like how he even leverages John Jennings, who was like a tackle-breaking yak machine at the University of Tennessee. And like, Kyle Shanhan's like, yeah, that's the exact receiver I like in my office. And he's even getting talent, no, reps out of him. There are players on the San Francisco 49ers team

that don't, borderline don't see the field or aren't nearly as maximized as they are. And Shanahan's finding ways to get them on the field and have success with him. He traded for Christian McCaffrey and it's still getting plus production out of Elijah Mitchell. That's hard to do. It is hard to do what Janahan is doing in terms of getting all of these different players

on the football field and having them productive every single week. And that doesn't even, you know, we talked about the Dallas Cowboys offense for a while and then brought to the defense. The San Francisco 49ers defense is legit. Nick Bosa is arguably the best, if not one of the best pass wrestlers in the NFL right now. On the back end, they're fighting ways with new additions like Charverius Ward, Jimmy Ward, one of the better safety. This defense is bawling out.

And I think a lot of people are tipping their cap to Denver and Iverro, what he's doing with the Broncos, the Patriots of the last three weeks, have been insane. A lot of that's been playing Zach Wilson over the last four weeks, but still Patriots defense is playing at a high level. You have very, very complimentary football in San Francisco, and a coach has been there. Has he been at top of it?

Has he won the NFC championship? No, when you think about that experience with Shanahan being in the postseason and knowing how these games work, I don't know. I really like where San Francisco is hitting their strike. Yeah, and I would say about their defense. It's similar to the Cowboys defense, where I don't think they do a lot of, like, complex things. And usually when we're like hyping up defensive coordinators,

it's because they're doing something cool. Like they're doing like simulated pressures or like they have these like cool blitzes or these cool coverages. But these both of those teams just line up and play. And I think that serves you well in the in the postseason. I really like Dallas's defense more than San Francisco's, even though I think San Francisco's is better over the long term, like over the course of a regular season.

But Dallas showing the ability to be able to man up on third down, against even against a team like the Vikings with Jefferson, I think that's the difference between them and the 49ers right now. I think the 49ers have more talent and they're able to avoid bad offensive games more than the Cowboys. That's why I trust them more. But like if both teams bring their A game, and you can throw the Eagles into this,

I think if all three teams play their best game, I'm not so sure that the Cowboys don't win. And I think I would put the 49ers like right below them. But I think that would be a close game. And then the Eagles for me, I agree with you. I think the NFL is so much about timing when you're getting hot,

like how you're building up to the playoffs. And I don't think that that's going so well for the Eagles, at least compared to the 49ers and the Cowboys. And I really think by January, one of those two teams is going to be clearly better than the Eagles. We were having a little bit of a conversation, just texting back and forth

before we start recording about kind of player confidence, team confidence, and how that, you know, the way we brought it was because of Baker Mayfield, who, like, is playing, like, new levels of dog shit. Like, he's, like, inventing new types. I don't even know, I don't know what type of dogs they are or whatever, but, like, it's an interesting blend.

And he's, he and Cooper Rush are the only two quarterbacks in the NFL with a negative EPA per dropback average when kept clean. When kept clean from pressure, this guy is a negative force on the offense. That is rare for a former number one overall pick. And someone that was going to start for the Browns. Like, he was the projected week one starter for the rounds before they made that trade for DeShown Watson. And there were expectations that he was a top 32 player.

I don't even know if he's top 35 to top 40. And so much of that, in my opinion, I don't think is that his talent has eroded. And the injuries have stacked up in this offense and all that stuff. It's literally he is doubting himself. And I think when you compare that to teams and when they're hitting their stride, when you start pointing fingers at this point of the season on what needs to get better? Does Jail Nurtz need to improve? I saw Benjamin So like talking about his decisions in the RPO game.

And when he's pulling, when he's giving like, you can't have that lack of confidence when you got the Cowboys and the Niners getting hot right at that time, playing confidence. playing confident, you know, not thinking on the field and all that stuff. So I do think confidence in that kind of, you know, how your brain's clicking is very, very important at this parts of the season, especially in a game of small sample sizes, right? In the NFL, you don't play seven-game series. You play one. You play one game and you're out if you lose.

And that, to me, opens it up for more variance, objectively opens it up for more variance. And that's when, you know, things like confidence, player confidence, and when you're getting hot and momentum and those types of things can seep in. All right. Speaking of no confidence, I have no confidence. This is my biggest mover. Even though they didn't move far that down in my rankings, I just wanted to call them out as my biggest mover

because I don't know where they go from here. It's the Arizona Cardinals. Steve Kahn, the general manager in Arizona, who's been there since the 90s, and Cliff Kingsbury, who was brought on as a head coach after coaching at Texas Tech in 2018, both signed contract extensions through 2027 this offseason. Kyloor Murray famously signed a contract through the 2028 season

that included a homework clause, and now we don't know if he's playing call duty, but he definitely will be in January because this Cardinals team's not making the playoffs. For the fourth, you know, they're going to finish the season without a playoff win for the fourth consecutive year under Kingsbury, under Kime. When does something change?

Like I tweeted out last night after the Arizona Cardinals lost an embarrassing fashion, by the way. I know Kyla Murray didn't play, but the defensive effort was awful. Like this was embarrassing fashion for a primetime spot as against a division rival. Cliff Kingsbury's offense is an EPA per play since 2014, 20th,

this year, 11th, 14th, 14th. Those are his, you know, four years in the NFL. His last year in the Power 5 at Texas Tech, 20th, 2017, 19th. In 2016 and 2015, he was top six, and then 2014-21st. Those two seasons he was top six. He had Patrick Mahomes at quarterback. This guy hasn't had an upper percentile offense since Patrick Mahomes was his quarterback. I don't know when you start, stop making excuses because they're going to be easy this year. DeAndre Hopkins, six-game suspension, Marquis Brown's been hurt, Tyler Murray's been hurt, the offensive line's been banged up. Shut up. There are teams in the NFL with more excuses. I'm tired of injury excuses. Every single team has injury excuses.

The Giants have injury excuses. The Jets have injury excuses. They lost Bruce Hall. They lost the buyers of Eric Tucker. They have an injury at quarterback, at least from a fucking personality standpoint, guys, making people hate them in the locker room. You can't make injury excuses when you're in your fourth year with where they've, over the last four years, Kime and Kingsbury, have gotten whatever they wanted. You want Andy Isabel in the second round? We'll give it to you. You know, you want Zaven Collins? You want Isaiah Simmons? You want to go make a trade for Markis Brown. You want to go add Cody Ford along the offensive line.

You want Kyle Murray. They'll give them everything. And when you are not going to the playoffs and not winning in the playoffs after four years, I think heads have to roll. I don't know. Where are you at? And I would say that, yeah, I agree with you. And I think the injury thing, it could be framed as like an unlucky thing.

Like, yeah, I think if the Chargers made an injury excuse, it would make sense. They, like, lost their whole offensive lineup and they lost Joey Bosa. For the Cardinals, I think the injury thing just exposes them. their flawed team building. Like Steve, when you sign old, injured veterans, they tend to be old and injured going forward. They don't get healthier and younger. And then I think it also exposes the lack of depth.

Like they lose DeAndre Hopkins and the whole offense falls apart last year because they don't have a receiver to put in that same position. It's bad drafting, bad use of resources in the offseason. Like the only real positive move they've made over the last couple of years was like the D'Andre Hopkins trade, which is like a no-brainer trade. Like anyone would make that. That was Bill, that was just Bill O'Brien getting into his back.

That was Bill O'Brien just dished out freebie, free samples at Costco. That doesn't count. It's like Ryan Grigsden, like hanging his hat on the Andrew Luck pick. Like, yeah, everyone would have made that pick. And Isaiah Simmons pick was one of the worst draft picks I've ever seen. And this is not hindsight. Like, I was, you could not draft a player like that with no position

who hasn't proven to be good at any position in football with a top 10 pick when they had like very obvious needs at that time. Like the offensive line was bad. I think this was like around the D' Andre Hopkins trade. I'm mixing the timeline up, but they needed another receiver too. They could have drafted like C.D. Lamb, which would have changed

that offense. But it's just over and over again, you look back at the draft history, you look back at their free agent signings. Like even the hits are like, yeah, they're a hit, but like did they really move the needle that much? Like the JJ Watt signing was fine, but he's been hurt and like it's been, it's gone as expected. Like the A.J. Green

signing work for the first year, but now he's like the worst receiver in football. These are the types of moves that Kime has been making. And I do think that it's a little unfair to put this all on cliff, like the dysfunction and the fact that they haven't won a playoff game. Because I mean, there's been, it's been better than I think people expect it. It just hasn't been good enough. And I do agree with that. And it's been four years.

He's had this quarterback who was really like the ideal quarterback for this type of system. And it hasn't worked. And I think it's time to move on. I think it's time to move on before you sour your fan base and maybe even your locker room around Kyler Murray. And I know like Kyler Murray isn't like a sure thing. But out of everyone in that locker room and everyone in that building, Kyler Murray is the only one with a chance to actually like become something.

And I think that the owner, uh, Bidwell should focus on keeping Murray happy and keeping him in town because that's really the only thing they have to hang their hat on because it's like alienating him for Kime and Kingsbury makes no sense to me. It's the only pick Kime has hit in the last five years. And he had to pick him at number one overall. It was the obvious selection.

You go back to 2018. Josh Rosen, Christian Kirk has been good, second round player, but he's not even playing for that team anymore. Mason Cole Chase Edmonds, that's your first four-round picks. Kyler, Murray, Byron Murphy, and Isabella Zach Allen. You have some players that are starting for this team, but none of them necessarily hits. First rounders, Isaiah Simmons, Sivan Collins, Tray McBride

was their first pick this past year. Like, they aren't adding talent in any of the drafts that they've had. And I think that if anyone tells you Cliff Kingsbury doesn't have his hand in some of the development or some of the personnel decisions, I think they'd be lying. I think Cliff has been a part of some of these conversations. Just looking at some of the behind-the-scenes camera stuff that you've seen when, you know, Andy Isabella is selecting the second round and Cliff Kingsbury's banging the table like this is like, I want it and all that stuff.

And then it's not working out. Like I, in my opinion, have one question that if the owner cannot answer positively, I think you have to make a change. does this offense, does this team look any better than it did when Cliff took over in 2018? I don't think so. Like from year one to year four, how much better are the Arizona Cardinals over the last four years? You compare Tyler Murray's rookie seasons now, they're not that much improved. And they don't have the playoff games to show for it.

And they fall off in the back end of seasons. And the offense has never been a top flight offense in this league since Cliff's taken over. I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on Cliff. But something isn't working. So much that if you just run it all back next year, we're bringing back Cliff, we're bringing back time, we're going to make these same roster decisions. We got Kyler under center. Like, what is going to be different?

What is going to change if you just continue to roll with the same guys unless you're making significant drastic trades to go get other players? Do you know what the biggest sign of incompetence is? And I don't really know what the league rules are concerning like the in-season hard knocks. But the fact that the Cardinals were like, yeah, let's let HBO cameras into this locker room. this year is just a fantastically dumb idea. This is the final straw. Did you see the Twitter clip of Cliff Kingsbury pointing at a painting of a lion?

And he said, yeah, yeah, I'm a Leo. So that's the symbolism there. What the fuck? You got a, you got a horoscope guy in there. Now make it like, believe, that is ridiculous. That is ridiculous. That's the sign. That's the straw that breaks out with that.

Have you seen the, have you seen Pop Star with Andy Sandberg? I don't think I have. It's like a parody of like the Justin Bieber documentary, but like that felt like a scene straight out of there. Yeah, I'm a Leo, so that's kind of the symbolism there. That's not symbolism, Cliff. That's not, that's a picture of a lion, and you have a weird star sign of a lion that you care about so much.

All right, on to the, I don't know what I'm doing segment, which honestly should be the whole podcast, but here we are. I want to talk about Philadelphia Eagles. I still have them at number one overall, but things have been shaky over the last two weeks. Hertz has been shaky. The offense overall hasn't had the same levels of success that you'd like to have.

They lost to the commanders, Taylor Heineke and the commanders. We talked a lot about other teams in the NFC getting hot, the San Francisco 49ers and the Dallas Cowboys. Specifically, the Eagles not getting hot at this point in the season, nearly losing to Jeff Saturday Indianapolis Colts, which would be banana land. I do think that the Indianapolis Colts are objectively a lot better now that a bad quarterback isn't playing for them

and a good quarterback is. I never thought Matt Ryan was the problem in Indianapolis and when they benched him, things got a lot worse. And I think it made, it painted a more negative picture than it. Maybe that was Ursaid's master plan all the time. You know,

it was like, hey, we're going to bench Matt Ryan and know we're going to play terrible. And then I'm going to be able to fire Marcus Brady and, you know, Frank Reich with evidence. Maybe this is, maybe Jim Ursay is,

you know, smarter than we think. Maybe he's mastering some of these things out. But, The Colts, I think, are a lot better than the Jeff Saturday jokes. I think especially with Matt Ryan back healthy, Jonathan Taylor back healthy. But still, Eagles nearly lose to them. You did all the regulation to go get it.

How concerned are you with the Eagles? I know you said you like the Cowboys over them. Do you like the Niners over them too? Like, should they be? How far down should they be on this list? Make this list for me. Should they be two, three, four? Out of the top five?

In the NFL? Are they NFC? In the NFL? I might put them out of the top five. But I know, like if I was doing it. doing power rankings this week, I would have them higher than the Cowboys and the 49ers. I'm like projecting to December. In December, I would have the 49ers and Cowboys higher. But I'm not like any more concerned that I was a month ago. It's like the same things that you

could see on tape when you were watching them that didn't necessarily show up in the box score because there were things hiding. There were like amazing catches by the receivers hiding. Inconsistent ball placement by Jalen Hertz. There was defenses that hadn't quite picked up on how the Eagles are running their offense, which I think didn't expose the fact that there is a limited dropback passing game and limited options in the drop back passing game when they get put in those situations, which they weren't really being put in early on in the season. And then the run defense has always been hit or miss. And then obviously Jordan Davis getting hurt changes that. Now they're signing Sue. I think that tells you how they feel about the run defense.

So like that's a desperation signing at this point in the season. soon and Linval. Yeah, and Linval Joseph's like the throwbacks from 2015. And honestly, like, I know Eagles fans are pushing back against the notion that like Jalen Hertz isn't an MVP candidate or that there's flaws with this team and they're not the best team in the NFC. But like the coaching staff in the front office is telling you all you need to know. Like watch them call plays for Jalen Hertz.

Do they call plays like they have an MVP at quarterback? No, not whatsoever. Not whatsoever. And you could make the argument that they're leaning into the, the, strengths of their roster. Like, they're leaning on the run game because their offensive line is so good. But when the situation calls for you guys to switch up your strategy and you're still not doing it, I think that gives the game away.

He's just not an MVP candidate. He's playing really well. He's maximizing his ability, and they're maximizing his ability, and he's not wasting this supporting cast by any means. But until he develops into an actual top 10 quarterback, like an elite top 10, or not elite, but a franchise quarterback, I think there's always a, going to be these questions because the game script has to stay in their favor in order for them to play the way that they want to. I was going to say in order to avoid the situations they don't

want to play it and call the plays that they don't want to call. Something that I do think is positive for Eagles fans when evaluating Jalen Hertz and I think oftentimes when you have the conversation that, oh man, that this team is a little bit limited because of their quarterback. That's when fans get their fucking boxing gloves out. They get the sword out like, whoa, Zach Wilson's good. Jailen Hertz is good. Kirk Cousins is good. A lot of fans will come in and say, don't you say that, don't you do that to my team. But I think the good or positive about bringing it up with Jalen Hurt specifically in this Eagles team is that I don't think it's built on a house of cards, the same way that the Jets were. And that Zach Wilson could throw three picks and lose you a game, just like he did against the past.

And just like he almost did again against the past where they dropped some of those interceptions. Kirk Cousins can just flat out lose you a game and not play at the level that you need him to. Like he did against the Eagles in prime time and like he did in some ways against Dallas Cowboys. now a lot of that was defensively getting blown out as well, but still, Jalen Hurts, in my opinion, is not that kind of quarterback, and that he's built on a house cards and you can just lose you games. I think that the problem is when you are going against a Cowboys team or a San Francisco 49ers team that is going to be toe-to-to-toe with you

in terms of talent level on both sides of the ball. That's when Perch needs to elevate into that franchise tier. And is he there yet? Maybe not. Are they calling plays to get him there? Not necessarily. They're leaning into the strengths of the offense, running the ball a lot more, trying to get the ball out quickly, all that stuff. That, I think, is the conversation with Philadelphia Eagles and Jalen Hurts.

It's not that Eagles aren't a playoff contender because Jalen Hertz isn't good enough and he can lose them games. It's the Eagles are of deep postseason contender, but if they want to beat head to head, Cowboys beat head to head San Francisco 49ers in late January, in early February, in early Feb, Hertz needs to play better than he's playing right now. And I think every Eagles fans should back that. Like, he does need to play better than he's playing right now for this Eagles team to reach their maximum potential.

Yeah, the bar is higher. And I think that's the case when we analyze these teams. Like I might sound more optimistic when I'm talking about. talking about a team like, I don't know, the Browns have played better than I thought they would. Jacoby Preset's been a baller. Jacoby Preset's been a baller. No one's talking about Preset. I love watching Jacoby.

But if you hear me talking about Jacoby Preset, you would think like, oh, he thinks he's better than Jaylon Hurst. He thinks the Browns are better than the Eagles. But no, it's just that the bar is higher when you're a Super Bowl team. And I'm analyzing this team through that lens. Like how do they match up with the other Super Bowl contenders? And for me, there are very obvious holes that they have. And maybe they figure them out over the next two months.

I just don't see it. And I don't know if Jalen Hertz is there yet. I'm not saying he can't because I think his arrow is pointing up and it's been pointing up since his last year at Alabama. He's gotten better every year. You can see the progress. We're just getting a little bit out ahead of ourselves right now with a talk. Compare the limitations you see from Garoppolo and Hertz.

Right. I think Hertz is ahead of Garoppolo and your quarterback range. things. But compare those limitations, right? Because we're talking about two NFC powerhouses, two teams that should be playing for an NFC championship if not trying to get to the Super Bowl this year with quarterback's that I think are limited, that are, that do have limitations

that aren't in the tier of a patch of Mahomes of Josh Allen or even playing at the level of some of the other, like a Joe Burrow, for example. Well, I think the situation is the same where they want to be in a certain game script and that's what they need to thrive. The difference between the two and why I think Hertz is way more valuable is he creates those game scripts on his own

because he's such a force in the run game. So, like, that's the difference between those two. And then I would also point out that Hertz won't lose you a game, like you said. Jimmy G. has that disaster artist thing, you know, where at any moment he could just lose a game. And Jalen Hertz, to his credit, is not that type of player. He's not going to make egregious mistakes. He's not going to. He's going to avoid those plays.

And he has a plan B for when things break down, whereas Jimmy G's plan B. Although I will say that over the last couple of weeks, like Jimmy G has shown more of like a playmaking instinct. Something that we haven't seen. Yeah, that could be it. But Jalen Hertz always has that. And I don't think it's like a thing that comes or goes. And then that makes a huge difference when things break down and like the play call doesn't go as well. Like that's when you see the Jimmy G that people like me criticize.

That's when you see him come out. You're telling me Jalen Hertz doesn't like throw into the chest of the cover one robber as often as Jimmy Garaplo does. And two, your opinion of the nickname Hemi Garaplo or Hemi Gwop. I mentioned it earlier. You didn't really say anything. I wasn't sure if you were there yet. No, that was on purpose. I'm going to continue to ignore it.

Perfect. All right. A couple more teams than I don't know what I'm doing than I want to talk to some quarterbacks of the week and all that stuff. Get more out of your holiday week with Fandul because new customers get $125 in free bets guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet.

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bonus issued as non-withdrawable free bets that expire within 14 days, after receipt restriction supplies in terms at sportsbook. Fandall.com. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit fandel.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, or Virginia. 1-800-next step or text next step to 5334-2-188-9-77-7-77. Or visit cccgat in Connecticut, 1-8009 with it in Indiana,

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I think for the first time in a while in my Power Rings file. I have the Dolphins at four behind the Eagles, Bills, and Chiefs, and I have the Ravens at six, obviously behind the dolphins, and then the Niners at five, and then the Ravens at six. My opinion is, as good as Lamar Jackson is, and I wrote in my write-up, the lead was, we do not talk enough about how bad the Ravens supporting cast is. DeMarcus Robinson and Kenyon Drake led the team in receiving and rushing last week,

or this week against Carolina. Both those players were cut by the Raiders this year. They were cut by one of the worst teams in the NFL. And now they're in Baltimore having success with Lamar Jackson. That, in my opinion, is a problem. It's very difficult for Lamar Jackson, the Baltimore Ravens have consistent success with just the bereft of talent this offense has. And defensively, they have played a lot better,

but I still worry that it's a very hyper-aggressive defense that can get exposed for big plays when something doesn't go their way, right? I don't feel it's a safe defense on the back end as much as it is an aggressive defense that forces you out of what you want to do. I have the Ravens behind the dolphins. I think the dolphins have more margin for error.

I think Michael is obviously a better offensive play caller and is playing with more. He has more chips. He's got more toys in the box. Great Gromit doesn't have shit for toys. Obviously, I've given Greg Roman a lot of flack for just the lack of creativity and the dropback offense and how much we've been saying the same thing year after year after year.

You know, Great Roman, can he actually develop an offense that caters to Lamar Jackson's strengths in the past? We haven't seen it. But can you really blame him at this point? He's kind of dealing with some Lombardi stuff and that this receiving court is objectively horrid, horrid without Markies Brown now playing in Arizona. That's the reap what you sow.

Like when you ask for tight ends and fullbacks to be so you can run your run game, it's not the front office problem. You don't have receivers. He asked them to invest in those parts of the offense, and this is what we're getting. And I know, I'm with you that the dolphins have surpassed the Ravens for me. Like maybe a month ago when the Ravens were a little more healthy and Rashad Babin was playing, I would have had the Ravens ahead of him. But now there's just too much pressure on Lamar.

And the more that the stronger Lamar's MVP argument gets, the worse it is for the Ravens, it seems. Because now the argument is like he has nothing. And he's still winning games. he's still producing relatively well. And I think if you watch these last two games against the Saints and the Ravens, like just watching them,

not looking at the box score. I was like, this is the best version of Lamar I've ever seen. And then they score 13 points against the Panthers. Like it doesn't make any sense until you think about like how flawed this roster is around him. And I agree with you on the offense.

I think the defense is a little better. I do think they're not blowing coverages as much. And that was the problem early on was they were just blowing coverages. against the Miami Dolphins. Like, that's the reason they lost the game. Yeah. They also had a lot of injuries in the secondary that game.

Yeah, yeah, that too. But it's not a good enough defense to, like, make up for what they are on offense because they're not going to have three straight hot games on offense in the playoffs. Like, they're going to have a stinker. And if that sticker comes against the Chiefs, the Bills, even the Bengals or the Dolphins, like these high-powered offenses, it's season over. True. The Dolphins, I will say, I think the Achilles so for them potentially is the

defense. The defense is not played well over the course of the season. 23rd in points allowed per game, 26 in defensive success rate. They blitz a lot in Josh Boyer's defense for rank 29th in pressure rate when they blitz. They run a lot of man coverage in Josh Boyer's defense. They rank 25th in yards per temp to loud when they run man coverage. Like the tenants of this defense, they don't have the dogs to do it, right? They're not creating pressure when they blitz. They're not limiting passes when they play man coverage. And some of that, I think, is personnel, right? I think quarterbacks after Xavier and Howard are having the success that you want them to. And they made the trade for Bradley Chubb to try and elevate how much they can create pressure up front.

And it's not working, right? It's not working right out of the gate. I think it will take time before Chubb and the pass rush start to have success. I think the best pass rusher on that team is actually Jalen Phillips. Jalen Phillips has been a baller this year for Miami. I don't think he has the sack numbers to necessarily warrant the national praise, but he's been really good in terms of pass-rushed win rate by ESPN and PFF. And the other pass-rasser that's balling out is Christian Wilkins.

Christian Wilkins, I think, is one of the more underrated defensive champions in the NFL. He has been phenomenal rushing the passenger for the Miami Dolphins. So having those two guys, now adding Bradley Chub, you have to hope the pressure starts to come. They don't have to blitz as often as they do. We're not seeing it yet, and the dolphins are giving up points, a lot of points because of it.

I worry about that going into the postseason. Now, it's awesome that Mike McDaniel, Tuotan by lower, all those guys have an offense that's geared for a shootout every single week, and that's obviously going to keep them alive against the Bills and Chiefs. But defensively, you'd like to see them not be as paper thin or as soft,

specifically with explosive plays. Yeah, I would make the argument about the Dolphins that you made about the Ravens. I think they're very unsound. And I do wonder, like, how much of that is dictated by Mike McDaniel being like, let's get in a track me. Let's do it. Does any team want to play us and attract me?

Because you guys are going to get run off the field. And maybe it's like a basketball thing where teams like to play fast. And that's what they want to do. They want to create these, like, highly volatile situations. Like, either you're scoring or we're scoring on defense. Either we're getting a turnover or you're scoring a touchdown because we know we're going to get the ball back and just march down the field and score

anyway. I don't think that's, it's all that. But I think there's like a bit of it where like McDaniel accepts the unsound defense because that this team is built to play like that. But I agree with you. That's going to be a problem against like a Patrick Mahomes. It will work against the Jets. It's not going to work against Patrick Mahomes or even Josh Allen. I know they beat Josh Allen, but they were missing like their entire secondary and it was a weird game that the bill is really dominated in terms of time of possess. that's not going to happen again. They do have to get more sound on defense.

That's the biggest issue with this team. And then what happens when they play a good team that's, or what happens when defenses adjust? Because we haven't seen defenses adjust yet. And I know people wanted like talk about Tua and how he's not a product of the system. But I don't know how you look at his passing map and then look at Jimmy G's passing map and not make a connection because it's the same exact thing. Like literally all you have to do is go into Photoshop, hit Control T,

That's the transform button and then stretch it out a little bit. And it's the same exact thing. It's the same question with him. What's going to happen when a team is able to get pressure on him? Like pressure in the pocket, make the pocket tight, make you go through your progressions then when you're not getting the ball out in 1.5 seconds. That's always going to be the question with him. I'm not trying to take away from him.

He's been good. He's been a top. I would say he's been a top 10 quarterback in terms of performance. But there are still question marks about him in the dropback passing game that I think we are going to get answered in January. I'm going to put that hat on again and ask me a question. Compared the limitations between Jimmy Garapolo and Tuat Tunga by Loa, who are obviously playing in two high-powered Shanahan offenses.

Number one, in EPA per dropback this year, EPA per pass play is Tua. Number four is Jimmy Groplo, guys that are dramatically, dramatically benefiting from really fucking good offensive play callers and a really talented supporting cast. Tua has Jail and Waddell, Tyree Kill, and some really talented running backs. San Francisco has George Kiddell,

Thibos Samuel, Pranaeuk, and some really talented running backs, both in offenses that Soak and you have both made the comment that McDaniel is just running the Shanahan offense a little bit deeper. Specifically in the passing game, I think the run concepts are a little bit different. But in the passing game, running those concepts deeper because he has faster players, but it is a carbon copy. And both those quarterbacks are benefiting from it. What are the differences in limitations? I think one would be experience, right?

I think Tua is still learning on the fly and growing as a player in terms of what he's seen. I think the other, for me, would be Tua, the release is quicker. and he's more confident right now throwing the football on one and a half seconds than maybe Jim Carapalos at times, but where are you at in terms of limitations or the comparisons? I think Tua is more accurate

and I think he's a better processor. Like I think he's better at, I think Jimmy throws those throws over the middle like blindly sometimes, which is why he throws those interceptions to the robber in cover one. I think Tua actually knows like where the windows are and what he's throwing into.

I don't think he's throwing blindly. I would say Jimmy has better arm talent. Like Jimmy, I think can fit the ball into tighter windows. He doesn't need to anticipate as much as Tua does. He doesn't need to be as accurate as Tua does. And then the other thing, I think they have a similar weakness in that when things break down, that's when their decision making starts to go.

Like Tua does not throw the ball away. He throws the ball downfield. And sometimes he throws the ball to a defender, whether it gets caught or not is besides the point. The fact is that when you put him under pressure, he panics a little bit. And that's the same with Jimmy G. We see him make bad mistakes under pressure. And I think both coaches, when those quarterbacks have been playing well, both coaches have been able to avoid those mistakes by keeping the pocket wide open, by keeping the throwing windows open, by avoiding them having to make decisions under duress.

And until we see Jimmy do that, or not Jimmy, too would do that, I think we can't really, like, draw any firm conclusions on what he is. We've seen Jimmy do that. And that's why we're so low on Jimmy G. because we've seen him mess up on a big stage. We've seen him mess up under pressure. But if you go back to 2017, everything that people were saying about Jimmy G, they were saying about the same things

that people are saying about Tua right now. He was making the same throws, the same tight window throws. And everyone's like, oh, he's Tom Brady. He's the next Tom Brady. He's cool under pressure. Which is so funny to say about Jimmy Garoppolo in hindsight five years later.

Jimmy Garoplo was cool under pressure was the take in 2017. Why can't fans, and maybe I'm being an idiot, because I have a last, of conversations on this podcast, another podcast about fanaticism and just being a fanatic of the NFL and being a fanatic of a team. But why can't fans parse out the success of their team with the success of their quarterback? I don't know. I think it's the it's the sharpest conversation,

or it's where it's where discourse gets the most violent is when a team is playing well, but there are doubts around the talent level or the sustainability of the quarterback being that guy. And, you know, it's the same conversations we had Jimmy Grapple, I think San Francisco 49ers fans kind of accepted it, right? 49ers fans accepted Jimmy for what he was when the Niners made that big trade for Tray Lance and kind of shifted their praise to Traylance being the future. And every single training camp video where he threw up like 80 yards down the field, they're like, oh my God, he's the future, he's him, he's all that stuff.

With Dolphins, Vikings, other fans, I think it just takes a long time. It takes a long time, especially if their team is winning when you got Ws. It takes a long time for them to kind of parse out kind of the success and differ the success. Speaking of quarterbacks, oh, go ahead. I was just going to say, I just think that like it's on us as the media. Well, all we do is talk about quarterbacks. We talk about how important it is. And when it teams winning, that's an easy connection to make.

I don't really put it on them. Like, they're not, they don't have the job I have. It's my job to, like, grind film and, like, learn how football works and, like, do all this stuff. So I can recognize that. They're not doing that. They're enjoying the game in a different way. I don't blame that, blame them for that. It's just, I'm still going to call you a stupid on Twitter if you tell me that two is better

than Justin Herbert because it doesn't make sense. That's fair. Game of the week. Gough's not here, obviously, to pick the games of the week, so I picked them both. I think the two biggest games this week. Must watch TV. Patriots at Vikings. Patriots, I think, are two and a half point dog going to Minnesota. Bill Belichick going against Kirk Cousins and offense, I am excited to see that matchup.

And then the other game that I think is going to be a fireworks show is the Bengals at Tennessee. Firework show, maybe not in points, but fireworks show in terms of how good the game will be. Bengals are two and a half-point favorites on the road over Tennessee. I think that line opened at one and a half. Bangles getting some points to two and a half. Third game, I want to bring up. And then you pick which one you like is Bears at Jets.

Justin Fields versus Joe Flacco. I don't know. We don't know who the quarterback's going to be, but we haven't had an opportunity to talk about it on this podcast about the comments from Zach Wilson and all that stuff. I want to get my takeout. Zach Wilson played like shit. And I think the best comparison of how the locker room is being affected by the comments that he made,

where the comment where he just said, no, he doesn't feel like he let the defense down. I think in the locker room we wore a shirt that says, I'm not the problem. So I'm dumb shit like that. When Josh Allen played like shit, he literally said it's hard to win games when you play like shit. When Zach Wilson literally completed like nine passes and the offense didn't cross the 35-garland and second half, and the defense held him the three points. And he asked if the defense to let him down. He said, no.

That, and I don't know if you're a Stephen A. Smith fan. I'm a big Stephen A. Smith fan. I think that he does what he's supposed to do so well in terms of get excited, get passionate about random shit. His rant on Zach Wilson where he's just calling him a boy and he's trash is absolutely sensational. And that is what happens, right? And players see that. Everyone sees that. Kyle Brandt, when Russell Wilson was getting called corny, one of the nicest guys in the media was calling Russell Wilson like a corny, like fake, bony loser.

This week, calling Zach Wilson just like a boy and childish and immature. Like the locker room sees that, the players see that. When you talk to Garrett Wilson, when you talk to the other players who are like, man, that's kind of fuck that he said that. That does not help things. That does not help the locker room. And it's why Robert Sala is considering making a change at quarterback. It's part of it is the accountability. And so many people, Steve Palzoa at PFF when he was on the PFF podcast and he talked, you know, talking about that quote, he's like, you know, talk about that doesn't matter.

It matters. These are people. These are human beings playing this game. And when Zach Wilson comes in and just doesn't take any accountability and he's young quarterback that's not playing well, it's hard to sell your locker room on this guy. when of any sport, you need to rally around it. Like, you need to rally around the quarterback. You have to have faith in the quarterback. You compare it to Bengals fans or Bengals teammates with Joe Burrow,

where they're like, yeah, we know we can win games because we've got Joe Burrow. Even look at George Kittle and other players with Jimmy Garoppel and how much they want to throw support at him with how much he's winning games. That matters. That matters. That matters. Like I said, you're not playing seven-game series where the best talent usually wins. You are playing small sample size games where relationships and locker room, all that stuff matters. for Zach Wilson do that,

end of an era in New York, man. They're four and a half point favorites over the Bears, and I don't know. I don't know. It depends who plays at quarterback. If Zach Wilson's playing, I don't think it's going to look pretty. Yeah, I mean, I get the argument

that the comments don't matter. I do think, like, Zach Wilson isn't going to be bad because he made that comment, but the fact that he made that comment kind of explains why he is bad. Like, if you can, if you play that game

and you don't come away with the feeling that you were the problem, I don't know how you get better. Like, I don't know how you watch that film going to go, like, I need to get better. I need to do it. Do better. I, I, he's just not a good player. I don't think the conversation is that, that difficult. He, he's never shown the ability to be a starting NFL quarterback. We haven't seen it once. Like, even his, his best stretch, which was in December last year, which Jets fans were screaming about all offseason, was not that good. Like,

when you turn on the film, it was not that good. The, the difference was that the defense dropped a lot of interceptions that they were catching early on in the year. And he's a small player. He can't create an structure. He's afraid of the pocket. I thought his arm strength was a little overrated coming out of college. Like I knew he could do the trick shots and like the sidearm passes. And it was very flexible and capable of doing things. But I didn't think it was like very powerful. He had a hose. Yeah, it wasn't like throwing down like tight window digs over the middle. But he was throwing like the perimeter deep balls, which like impressive. But doesn't really apply to the NFL.

Like how often are we seeing quarterbacks throw nine balls? Like Joe Burrow made an offense out of it last year, but that was like, that's why it was such a big deal. It's like, oh, we never seen it. He's making an offense out of it now, back shoulder throws. But no, it does that. And I don't know. I think that the conversation surrounding him,

like the personality stuff is a major red flag and should have been a red flag for the Jets. I don't know how they overlooked it because it was out there. Like anybody paying attention to that draft cycle, that was out there. there. But I really think this is just a bad evaluation of a player beyond the personality things. This is, this was

I could have said when they drafted him, this was a bad decision. Players like that don't get drafted in the first round. Players that look like him do not get drafted in the first round. The biggest, strongest, fastest players are what win you games in the NFL and he was not one of those. A few things there. One,

you're right to have this conversation around to take that. What he said in the press conference, does it necessarily matter? Like, personality, maybe a bit over age. You don't have to think about the... But when you have... My opinion is,

is when you have to improve, when you have to take coaching, or you have to win back a locker room, or you have to... You earn the respect of your teammates. Your personality fucking matters. How you approach improvement, how you approach getting better matters.

And when I was at PFF, there was an off-season where I did 86 interviews with different prospects, talking to different guys, and trying to get an understanding of, like, what all these people are... My biggest takeaway every time was trying to figure out,

like, How interested is this person in like being humble and getting better, right? I think it's a big sign. It's a big sign of like awareness, right? It's awareness. Zach Wilson saying no right there is zero awareness. That is not awareness. Read the room.

Know what you're saying. Think about what you're saying. You're going to say no to a comment that everyone is going to make big. That's not having the awareness of the situation. When Josh Allen says, you can't win games when you play like shit, does he actually think he's a piece of shit? Does he actually think he's the worst quarterback ever? No, he's saying that because it shows respect to the defense and it shows respect

to others. He is obviously aware of the situation. That lack of awareness and that lack of humility and all that stuff doesn't show up necessarily when you're already super talented or you're already Bill Belichick or you're already Tom Brady. You can be an asshole all day long if you're that talented. But when you aren't that talented or you are warning that things back, I think that shows up.

It at least buys you time, I would say, too. Like Josh Allen like endeared himself to the locker room when he was, he was a bad player for the first year and a half, but he endeared himself to the locker. So it didn't matter. If you're going to be bad, you can't be an asshole and bad. Yes. So I used to work with Bruce Gajkowski.

Bruce Grykowski worked at PFF. He's a backup quarterback for a long time. Play for the Raiders. It's a phenomenal game. I think it was 08. Came back against Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh. Deep shot, Louise Murphy. Phenomenal game.

It was a Raiders fan as a kid. Bruce Gajowski was elected. He always said, as a backup quarterback, the only thing he has to do is be nice to the starter. Be nice. Be a good guy in the locker room. Get the towels. Do all that stuff because that's how you last in the league.

He's being nice and having that kind of just like approachability. And Zach Wilson doing what he did, obviously doesn't have that. The other thing I'll say is where did you have Zach Wilson pre-draft? Because he was a consensus top three quarterback in that class, top four. I know Chris Sims had him as the top quarterback in that class. A lot of people had him two behind Trevor Lawrence and people had him three behind Lawrence and Fields. Were you doing draft stuff at the time?

Did you have a where was your head out? I had him. I ended up putting him ahead of Lance, but I had them on the same thing. It was the same thing for me. It's impossible to evaluate them for two different reasons. One, Lance hadn't played football in like a year and a half. and the last time we saw him play football, he was 19 years old. And then I just thought Wilson's 2020 film was useless.

Like, he was playing seven on seven. I don't know how else to put it. And then you look back at the 2019 film, he still kind of looked like the same player who just wasn't good. It was more like what we're seeing with the Jets. So I was very low on him. I was very surprised that he was the consensus number two pick and that it was like a no-brainer decision.

And there was no talk about like Justin Fields or Trey Lance being in that conversation. But yeah, I was pretty low on him. I was low on Mack Jones too. So I'm patting myself on the back for those two. I want to have more conversations when we get into draft time this year. I think you have obviously interesting case on the quarterbacks, but even evaluating other players. I think what you were saying about Jamar Chase coming out,

I thought was interesting about, but that's a different podcast. Lastly, but not leastly, this is normally where we bring up the quarterback conversation, but we've had a lot of quarterback conversation in the podcast. Are there any players that you want to throw some praise at? I know you're talking to Jacoby Brissette earlier on the feed. I'm a big Berset buyer.

He was put, let me go off a little bit here. He was put in an impossible situation, impossible situation in Cleveland. He knew he was going to get benched after this next week. He knew that he was not the starter. They made sure of that. Fucking Sean Watson's getting off of the key of the city in Atlanta. It was a weird situation.

He had that comment, I think, early in the offseason where it's easy to not be like Deshaun and some people made it like. This was a tough situation. Every single week, when you look at the body language, when you look at how he's approaching these games, he's putting it all out there, man. And I think you have to respect what Brissette has done as the start of Cleveland. I know they're probably on the outs looking at the playoffs,

even with DeShon Watson coming back, if that is even an improvement. But man, I think he's going to be a backup in this league for a long time for showing what he did in Cleveland. And I think every team would be lucky to have a percent as a backup, given what we've seen this year. Maybe that's too much praise to the kid. But I think he's been the kid.

He's probably older than me. But I think he's been awesome. I think he's been awesome. And I think, look, as a fan, he's the type of quarterback you want. He's not a coward. Like, he's not like one of these, like, bottom 10 quarterbacks who doesn't take chances downfield or doesn't, like, stick in the pocket. like he's like a throwback like 1970s,

1980s just throwing it down field. I don't care about my completion percentage. My yards per 10th are going to be super high. I really like him as a quarterback. I don't think he's like super good, but he rules, man. He rules. I want to talk about Russell Wilson, man.

I checked in on Russell Wilson last night. Watch the film. If you ever want to watch, like so many people this this off season talk about like the Russell Wilson offense. Like everything becomes the Russell Wilson offense. Deep balls. He ignores the middle of the field.

Watch this game against the Raiders. It's the most extreme example that I've ever seen. And look at his passing map on next gen stats. There is one gray circle, which is an incomplete pass, between the numbers over like five yards downfield. And that was the Hail Mary at the end of the game, at the end of regulation when he threw it off his back foot to a guy that wasn't even looking. He did not throw to the middle of the football field.

Do you know how big that area of the field is? That's the whole field, basically. That's like 35 yards out of a 53-yard field. and he just ignores it. He is a bottom five quarterback right now. He might be the worst quarterback in the NFL that's not like a young guy who's still trying to figure out

like Zach Wilson or whatever. Like in terms of veterans, he's unplayable. I don't know how you call an offense for him. I know everyone wants to make fun of Nate Hackett and he deserves all of it because he's a terrible game manager. But like in terms of like the offense

and how it's working, there were so many guys running open over like the deep intermediate part of the field during this game, especially in the first half. I clipped like six clips. Can't post them on Twitter because the NFL's cracking down on all 22 because they don't know how social media works. But it's bad.

It's one of the worst games I've ever seen. And you can't throw over the middle of the field against a Las Vegas Raiders defense that might be one of the least talented in the NFL. I think Patrick Graham even keeping this not from just being straight to the AFL or whatever the developmental league is, I think is impressive. Anyone just a side comment on the Raiders, anyone thinking that Patrick Graham is a scapegoat in this situation, I'm not saying he's been perfect. but like this defense might be one of the least talented in the NFL. Chandler Jones has not, Chandler Jones does not live up to the billing. I don't even think most fans could name the starting outside cornerbacks of the Raiders.

They just cut one of their starters and John Nehron. I'm like, yeah, we just got to cut him because it's a bad situation for Las Vegas and for Russell to not have success against that defense. That is wholesale concerning. And I don't know the way out for Denver, right? You are obviously committed, pot committed to Russell Wilson moving forward. And he's playing like a bottom five quarterback right now. Every decision you make, new ownership group in Denver,

has to be one that gets them out of the bottom five. That has to be bringing in coaches or whoever, talent, whether that's receiving, offensive line, defense. Does Richard Chairman need to come back? I don't know. You're going to have to make some decisions to elevate Russell Wilson. It's not that dissimilar, in my opinion, to the Kyle Murray situation. I think Kyle Murray's got more ceiling and we haven't seen all of it from him.

But you're tethered to him and you need to make an offense that works for him and elevates what his skill set is, Russell Wilson's the same way. You want to hear the fucked up thing, though? Go. When I was watching that film, it kind of looked like Seattle Russell Wilson. I wasn't like, oh, this guy's wash.

It was just like, this is just the type of quarterback he is. Maybe they need to hire Pete Carroll. Bringing Brian Schadenheimer. Like, I'm not joking about the Brian Schadenheimer thing. I think, like, Brian Schadenheimer, bringing him in would make Russ like a top 15 quarterback.

There is still talent there. He is not washed up. Like, even in this Raiders game, there were like some nice moon balls to the perimeter, like drop right over the shoulder right into their hands. Like there were a number of them that were accurate that not all of them were caught, but he was throwing the Rust balls that were used to seeing.

It's just like they don't know how to coach around that like Pete Carroll did. And Pete Carroll got a lot of criticism, but like looking back on it, I really think Pete like he protected Russ from a lot of criticism early on in his career. He protected Russ from a lot on and off the field. Russell Wilson being his off-the-field presence being as memeable as it is now compared to it was in Seattle. It's just insane.

Like, he's literally just like a laughing stock every single week for a different reason, a different pregame celebration, whatever the hell it may be. It's worrisome. The other quarterback in that game, and we'll close on this. Derek Carr, Devante Adams, were awesome in that one. It's exactly what you wanted this Raiders offense to look like is Devante Adams getting a ton of targets and then winning football games because of it. Josh Jacobs, I think, has been insane in a contract year. I think he's been one of the more talented backs this year. They didn't even have Colt Miller in this game.

The offense looked good because Josh Jacobs, Devante Adams, Derek Carl, were hitting. Defensively, it's a disaster. They're fortunate they're playing Russell Wilson and missing over the field. Max Crosby's the only blue-chip player on that team, on that side of the ball. I've had a lot of conversation about what do the Raiders do. I think if Mark Davis was richer and more willing to admit his faults,

he probably moves on from Ziegler and McDaniels and tries to start anew. But I think the best case scenario for the Raiders moving forward is to not blow it up. Don't trade Derek Carr. I agree. Don't move on from DeVante, Adams. Don't move on from Josh Jacobs even. Resign him. Analytics guy screaming, resign a running back. He's talented. Just do it. Get Daniel Waller back healthy. Get Hunter Renfro back healthy. Get Colton Miller back healthy. Improve this defense with the draft capital that

you have and try and run this back with Josh McDaniels. Why? Why should you do that with McDaniels? Because if you're not willing to fire him, don't give him the keys to a rebuild because then more excuses flood in. If you give McDaniels and Zegler and the keys to blow it up, that's three-year commitment. Right? So you trade McDaniel, you trade Carr. You probably have to trade Adams. Like Adams and Carr, Adams didn't come to Vegas to not play with Carr. So you can't do it. You can't do it. You can't blow it up.

Don't let McDaniels and Ziegler blow this up. They came to Las Vegas to go get Adams and to win with the team that they have. They aren't, but they need to do that in year two, right? With more confidence in the office, maybe from Carr, some improvements on both sides of ball. I think that's the best way out for Las Vegas moving forward. It's an underwhelming, concerning season to start. Maybe you're losing the locker room.

You've got people calling out effort concerns, all that stuff. But blowing it up and giving McDaniels and Ziegler the keys to a rookie quarterback, like CJ's Trader Price Young, feels absurd to me. Because then you're not even sure if McDaniels is a good coach yet. And you're giving him maybe two, three years of excuses of, well, it was his first season. Oh, this receiver got hurt. You just don't want to play that game.

Do it one more time with Derek Carr and Devonthe Adams. And if it doesn't work, then you have this opportunity to move on. I'm kind of surprised that they're kind of surprised that it's not going as well. Like, it's hard to look back at their recent draft history and expect this roster to be in a good spot. Like, how much draft capital they waste. Like, Nadia, this isn't even like drafting busts. These were super busts.

They've wasted so many first-round picks. It's impossible to build a talented roster, capable of competing in that division, by the way, without using that draft capital. And so I'm not surprised that this is a disaster. Yet, I will say this. They've wasted so many picks. Henry Ruggs, Damon Arnett,

Cleland Furl is not hit. They have not hit on picks. Jonathan Abram. Josh Jacobs was probably the best player they picked. Colt Miller the second. or no, probably Colton Miller first. But still, they've wasted a lot of picks. And still, I'd argue, offensively at least,

it's one of the more talented offenses. Carr, Adams, Renfro, Waller, Colt Miller, Jacobs. What offenses could even name that many players that are three and seven this year? Like, I mean, like, that's insane. Like, they have talent offensively. Defensively is a different story. Max Crosby's, again, the only good player on that team

on that side of the ball. They have not, with the draft picks, with Cleomford and All, Damon, Damon, Arnette, Jonathan Abram, they have not hit there at all. They've been relying on castaways, and that's why the defense is like 30th in the league and points per game allowed.

Offensively, this should have been a good offense and I think it has the talent to do so. I think there's been some friction with the new McDaniels offense, and they're losing a lot of one-score games, losing on third down and losing in the red zone, where coaching has biggest impacts. I think that you run it back, see if McDaniels and Ziegler can actually build a top 10 offense,

top eight offense, need paper play with the players that they have, and defensively just pray, just pray that you're not burning the next few draftings. Pray that they don't get set on fire under the new regime. Steve, this is fantastic. I think we went over time, but, you know, it's his the season. Want to end with something you're thankful for this year? I'm going home for the holidays for the first time in six years. I moved to L.A. with this new job. I'm finally not in Cincinnati, Ohio. I can finally see my family for the holidays. Anything you're thankful for

to close us out. I don't have to watch Carson Wenz play football for the rest of the year. Huge. Thankful for that. Huge. That's the one thing. You've made this comment on the podcast recently. Carson Wins playing for like his trade being like incentive-laden. It's a conditional second round pick and he plays 70% or whatever, it's hilarious to think that it could just be that moving forward. Like, say he gets traded to Carolina for like a conditional fourth if he plays 50% of the snaps or if he starts two games. I would love to just have his career just like attached to like these minor playing.

Hey, if he's on the team by February, all that stuff, I think would be great. But, well, this has been Austin Gale, Stephen Ruiz, on the ringer power ranking show. Make sure tune in the rest of the feed, the island on Wednesdays with North Preciati, Shield Capadia on Thursdays with Scramble. And the ringer preview show with Steve yourself. Danny Hyphins and SOAC again, until next time. Austin Gail, Steve Ruiz, and Power Ranker Show.