The Ringer NFL Show - Week 13 Recap: Bengals Beat the Chiefs Again, Niners Lose Jimmy G in a Win, Vikings Win Another Close Game | The Ringer NFL Recap Show

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Nora and Steven are joined by Ben Solak to talk about Joe Burrow and the Bengals, who are now 3-0 against the Chiefs dating back to last season. They also talk about what makes the Bengals such a tough matchup. Then, they discuss the Niners' big win over the Dolphins, and how losing Jimmy Garoppolo for the season due to a broken foot changes their Super Bowl hopes (19:49). Then, Nora and Steven run through a few winners and losers of the week, including the Vikings, Eagles, and Ravens (37:57). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Guest: Ben Solak Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Yossi Salek, and I'm the host of Bansplain, a show where we explain cult bands and iconic artists by going deep into their histories and discographies. We're back with a brand new season at our brand new home, the Ringer podcast network, tackling a whole new batch of artists, from Grunge gods to PowerPot pioneers to new metal legends and many, many more. Listen to new episodes every Thursday, only on Spotify. Sunday edition of the Fringer NFL recap show. I'm Nora Pinceotti. Week 13 Sunday is in the books. I am here, as always, with Stephen Ruiz and Benjamin Solac to break down all the action. This was a really, really, really good exciting week of football. So Stephen Ruiz, I feel that I can say happy Sunday to you. I accept it. It was a good weekend. I agree. Excellent. Ben, how is your Sunday?

Wonderful. Delightful. As always a great time. Never had a bad Sunday. Day that ends in Y. Love to be live. All right. Well, I'm sure something that had a lot to do with that was some really, really exciting games here. For our headline, we're going to break down two of the best ones, Bengals, Chiefs and 49ers, Dolphins, and then obviously the implications of the news that Jimmy Garablo is going to be out for the rest of the season with a broken foot. That's going to be our headline. And today's headline is brought to you by the quarter pounder with cheese from McDonald's. That's right, folks, the QPC. It's the burger napkins were made for. Each one famously

features 100% fresh beef cooked when you order, topped with sliced onions, crunchy pickles, ketchup and mustard, and two slices of melty American cheese on a sesame seed bun. Order the fresh, juicy QPC. All right. So let's start with Bengals' Chiefs. Bengals beat the Chiefs 27 to 24. same score as the AFC championship game. The Bengals have beaten the Chiefs. The last three times they played, really the only team, only current team in football, at least as it's sort of currently constructed,

that I think can claim to kind of have Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs number. To me, this was the culmination of all the things that we've talked about. The Bengals offense sort of incrementally getting better at. So you had Samajé, He run running really, really hard in this one. 21 carries for 106 yards, then tack on six receptions for another 49, including that massive second effort on third down on the go ahead drive. And then Burrow really neutralizing pressure, which is just, I think, one of the biggest ways in

which he's improved in really surprising ways over the course of the season. He got the ball out super fast, only got sacked once at the end, broke the pocket when it made sense, 11 carries. for 46 yards and a touchdown on the ground for Burrow. And all of that contributed, plus the fact that they get chased back and he goes for seven catches on eight targets for 97. All of that in combination meant that this Chief's defense could not really get effective pressure on the Bengals. They generated a season low 15.6 QB pressure percentage, which is 10 percentage points

below their season average of 25. That's from next gen stats. That was sort of how I saw the offensive performance for the Bengals and how they were able to win this game. Ben, what was your takeaway for the Bengals when they had the ball in this? Nah, nail on the head. Firstly, Joe Mixon's going to come back. I don't know what the time is going to look like, but Samaja Piron can't get phased out of his offense, man. Samajia is a huge part of why they're running hard.

Yeah, he's a huge part way their gun run game has worked. the big criticism for the Bengals film watchers you know, Bengals riders was like his offense is predictable. It's siloed. Like they understand her run and play action, shotgun drop back fast. Like we kind of know what's coming. The Bengals answer to that is to be a gun running team.

Not a lot of teams are a good gun run team. Really hard to be a good gun run team in the NFL. Usually you need a mobile quarterback. Best teams that do it are like Eagles, Giants, Cardinals, Ravens, right? Burrow, not going to be that involved in like the design running game, right? So how has it worked? Well, they'll like do,

versatile things, right? They're running like same side tosses and they're like kind of like throw in the kitchen sink at it a little bit. But secondly, P. Rine breaks first contact. Like if there's a legitimate criticism for Joe Mixen in terms of the quality of what he is as the back, independent of like the line and the predictability of the offense, it's that first contact brings Joe mixing down more than it should. He has, he's not as productive yards after contact this season as you'd expect the back of his caliber. Somagia ain't got that problem. Somagia's breaking first contact pretty regularly. The Chief's defense tackled horrendously in this game.

Yes. They had a lot of opportunities to win this. They had first in 20s and first and 18s and third and sevens and a third and five. Bubbles created Amar Chase. Two free bodies. And they just could not get a guy down. But we already knew that about Jamar. We already knew that about T.

T's tough to tackle, right? Big long guy. Samajai in that bucket as well. The difficulty that the Chiefs had at that second level of getting pause on him and bringing him down, the Yards that he created dirty yardage were so important. for the Bengals running game, something that they needed to have something they needed to get sustainable, being sustainable. And then your second point, Joe Burrow, sack avoidance. I, like, if there's something I believe in the NFL, it's that quarterbacks don't change

their stripes. Play style is play style. You're either better or you're worse or you have a good game or a bad game, but you kind of are what you are. Do you throw a lot of picks or do you avoid picks, Aaron Rogers? Do you take a lot of sacks like Russell Wilson or do you avoid a lot of sacks and throw the football away, right? You kind of, you know, are what you are in terms of your play style. And for Joe Burrow over the last few weeks, just be like, hey, you know how I was a super high sack player last year and to start this year and got on like an offseason podcast and defended my high sack percentage to just be like, I get rid of the ball fast now and I scramble and I dump the ball off to P. Ryan on third and seven, like what? You can't. It's so hard to do. And we'll see how

sustainable it is and we'll see like coaching style, kind of what it is and what it isn't. But the fact that he's got this stretch where he's avoiding pressure the way that he is and critically avoiding sacks, avoiding creating his own second and longs and third and longs. Enormous. Enormous development. What's one of the most promising young pastors in the league? The biggest black mark on his play. A race over last weeks and a huge part of the reason why they beat the Chief.

So absolutely. Samaj and Joe Burrow avoiding sacks. That's your two big headlines come out of this game for the Bengals offense. Huge L for the podcasting community. That's true. We got a second game that we're talking headline. Yeah, yeah. Wait for that.

Right back on the train, baby. You don't worry about a thing. Wait for that. But I do think this is like a big indictment of the Chief's defense because this was the same problem that they had last year against this same team. They can't tackle. They're too soft on the outside. They can't man up on the outside either. They couldn't get them off the field.

And this looked exactly like the two games last year. And our big thing on the Friday podcast was this was this was going to be a litmus test for this defense, for these new corners, for this new secondary. And I have to say they failed the test. And I came into this week thinking the Chiefs were the clear Super Bowl favorites and like no one was going to be able to touch him. I don't believe that anymore. Especially if Pat Mahomes' foot is hurt, I know Andy Reid said it was okay. But if it's hurt, if it's tweaked, I think he said he's going to be fine or okay, something like that. But we've seen that effect before on Mahomes.

I think two years ago when they played the Bucks in the Super Bowl, he also was dealing with the ankle injury or foot injury that limited his mobility. and such a big part of their offense and why it's been so good without Tyreek is his mobility and his ability to stretch the play and get outside of the pocket when teams play man because teams are playing so much man against them

if he can't do that their ceiling lowers dramatically for me. Yeah, and that point about scrambling quarterbacks in the AFC, I think is such a big point. Mahomes and Josh Allen kind of the defining players in that conference, Joe Burrow now scrambling a little bit more like mobility moving around in the pocket. the Bengals defense, which,

Big Lou, baby, 24 points against the Chiefs. No points in the whole point. Stephen, did you set an over under on when he was going to say Big Lou? Big Lou. The undercashed. I don't even think it was worth it. The under was so sure to hit. But here, listen, the Bengals' edges are, like, fascinating to me.

Trey Hendrickson and Sam Hubbard. They just got these, like, big 270-pound white dudes who just, like, work really hard. and I think, Trey Henderson's like weirdly, really explosive sometimes. And like they just, they have unbelievable production. They're great against the run. Hendrickton and Sam Hubbard. But your criticism would be like, all right, we're this three down rush team.

And like, Hubbard doesn't really finish his sack super well. Like Hendrickson can't chase a guy down. You know who's sacked Mahomes at third and three? Joseph Osai, who was a rookie last year who they lost most of the season, come back. He was like an outside linebacker stand up. Jack linebacker at Texas kind of move around a little bit. They get him on the field for a run. rush down, he breaks Orlando Brown's brain on an inside move.

Orlando Brown's got no chance to barely ends a hand on him. Immediate pressure on Mahomes. And then Mahomes avoids Joseph Osai and kind of you can see him the home's head back. All right, that guy's gone. Because when he gets past Trey Hendrickson and Sam Hubbard like that, they are gone. And then Joseph Osai turns that thing around and dives with length and with explosive speed. That athleticism is so important. When you, when you compare what the weapons, the Bengals have defensively,

in terms of what like the chiefs have defensively, that addition. of Osai is critical because they have athletes and they're all tough as nails, man. Jermaine Pratt with the forced fumble, just like a tough run stuffing linebacker, right? Vaughn Bell and Jesse Bates, right? Their interior players, Cam Taylor Britt, the way they were able to deal with Kelsey, the line of scrimmage, same way they used to do it last year. They are physical. And then to bring in an athlete like Joseph Osai is your ringer on third down to get that

key sack on Mahomes, right? Like we're talking about a chief's win. If like a couple of things break a different way, but it's because of the toughness on the Spangles team offensively and defensively. that gives them that little bit of edge against more of like a speed style team like the chiefs are. I would also say like one thing Big Lou does so well when he does rush three is he's able to create isolations for those ends. And I think that's such a big deal against Kansas City because you're getting the best of both worlds. You're getting one-on-ones with their tackles who aren't the best in space.

They're not the most athletic tackles in the league. So you're going to, you can win that matchup and still get pressure as if you're rushing forward, but you're rushing three and you're still getting to do the other stuff you do by flooding the coverage. So I, I, I, I, I, I think it's like, I'm not ready to say like Zach Taylor is a good coach, but I don't think he's a bad coach anymore, but I'm still thinking that Big Lou should at least be the assistant head coach. I'm done saying he should be the head coach. He shouldn't be the head coach. Zach Taylor's good enough, but he should still be the assistant head coach. You don't have to call him Big Lou. I'm going to say it every time. If we knew how to say Lou, Anna Rumo.

Anna Rumo. Nora, I was on Bill's pod and I tried three times to say Anna Rumo. And I always say Aniru-Mu. I always say it wrong. I couldn't say Big Lou. And like the name. Uh. Like, uh, I don't know what to say because I can't pronounce Anirumo. Room, like a room with a view.

Oh. Like the letter. We can all do it. Suddenly we're in my fair lady here. That's too many syllables. It just took you 30 seconds to get through his last name. I'm on, I'm on Celeb Heights Wiki, which I didn't know was a site, but that's nice. they don't have a height weight listed for Big Lou.

He's 6-7, 480 pounds. Big Lou. That's a mountain of a man. In the vacuum, in the absence of knowledge, I am deciding. Lou Aniromo is big enough to be called Big Lou. All right, all right, all right. Let's talk a little bit more about that,

the third and three sack that set up the Miss Field Bowl. Mr. Anerumo, in that moment, The chiefs are trying for the eight-minute drive that essentially would have iced to the game. But the three-man pressure with Osai gets home forces Annie to kick the field goal in fourth and seven. Bucker misses. That's ball game. Obviously, the decision to kick is another thing entirely might have been impacted by the fact that Mahomes was banged up. But that play and how.

the Bengals pressured and got home had so much in common with the Bengals game plan from the AFC championship game. Ben, did you see them essentially copying that over the course of the game? Or was that one play just more emblematic of it? What do you think? Like, did they change much up for this new chief's offense? Or did you see this as more of a carbon copy? No, they didn't change much up. But at the same time, like when we refer to that AFC championship game, we often and say, yeah, they play drop eight. They've been rushed through drop eight. They did it more, like 35% of the snaps, more than whatever.

Like, I say that all the time, but I'm trying to like summarize that AFC championship game in one quick sentence, then move on to the next point. The reality is that in that AFC championship game, they called drop eight a lot, but they did it in the spots where you want to be in drop eight. They did it in the spots where they knew they were getting five on the concept. Like Stephen said, they could set up their isolations.

Then they would be in rush four stuff. And then they would be in like occasional like blitz stuff where they would actually bring an extra player. Like, it's not that they just, press like just spam the drop eight button. Like, why does nobody else do this? We just play drop A every single down and we're great. They carbon copied it in the sense that Anarumo,

Anarumo, yeah, has a really good sense of what spots wants to be in where. He understands what players he wants to have up against whom. Like, how many D.Cs are afraid of Travis Kelsey? Lou isn't. How many DCs aren't sure how they want to pressure Mahomes? Lou knows how. He doesn't respect Orlando Brown.

every opportunity they get, where's 57? Left tackle, we want to get, we're going to get Hendrickson over him. We're going to get to the outside. Side beat him on the third and three. He knows who he wants, right? And so they play, they withstand. They give up, you know, big drives to Isaiah Pacheco runs. They get Holmes into a third and 10, and then he hits Marquezvolda scaling through a sliver

of space and he's just, okay, just survive to the next one, survived to the next one. And then eventually you get down by four with the chiefs deep in their own territory. catch and run Travis Kelsey, fumble forced by Jermaine Pratt. And like, the reality is like, the Bengals are extremely legit. The Bengals lost this game 27, 24.

If they lost this game 34, 27, they'd be extremely legit period. Like, they have established that. They're, I think, a more legitimate contender than I thought they were last season. And they made the Super Bowl last season. But what this game comes down to is one turnover. This is a three point game.

Nobody punted in the second half. Turnover, right? There's a fumble force by Jermaine Pratt, and then the ball bounced in the Bengals were able to recover it. And then it's a three-point game, the Bengals win. If it's a different fumble, the ball doesn't bounce a different way, it might be, again, like 30 to 27 Chiefs. But what remains true is that the Bengals feel now three and O against the Chiefs, very confident that they have a game plan that at the very least gives them a one possession game

weight against Kansas City, which kind of the best you can ask for against this, against this Kansas City chief's team, right? They can at least get them to the spot where you get one bounce of the ball wrong, we recover the fumble, and we can salt this thing away. And like, Buffalo would love to have that. They don't. You know what I'm saying? Like Tennessee is the only other team that really has that ability to get the Chiefs in that sort of a game. So it's a testament to the fact that like, it's not just pressing a drop a button. It's

on first down, second down, third down. They know what they like. They know what they don't like. They know what their players are good at. And then when they get to the spots where a critical place need to be made, they get the fumble, they get the sack, and they walk out with the winner. How did we feel about the field goal, though? I do have a question about that. Because I have a take. I understand.

About Andy kicking? Yeah. And taking the ball out of Mahomes' hand. I get that he was hurt, but I think that's a situation where you just got to call timeout. Like, you got to read the room in the game. You guys couldn't stop Burrow all game long. And just thinking about it, if they get, what did they need, two first downs? And the chiefs really got two big breaks because Jamar Chase went out of bounds on two of the plays. But just thinking about it, like, if I flip a bubble screen out to Jamar Chase three straight times,

I'm very confident that's going to produce 10 yards. And if I, that's how you have to think about giving the ball back to this. team. Like, I feel like once they missed that field goal, the game was over. I had no doubt in my mind that the Bengals were going to keep the ball and run the clock out. Yeah. From the Ben Baldwin bot, because this is the one that it kind of puts up win percentages so you can see the math, which is useful. In deciding to go for a field goal, the chiefs had a 34% chance to win the game, which I think is really important to understand and stop right there.

If the chiefs had made the field goal, then basically the bot saying like, hey, six out of ten times, like, the chiefs the bengals go down and score like you know you're not you didn't you didn't like give yourself a great shot here you know what I'm saying like you didn't really help that much so yeah field goal success uh it has it right 54 percent so it's saying five out of ten times right about 50 percent of the time the bangles are going to just go down and they're they're going to be able to take the lead uh that number is important right it's not like all right you tied the game up now you're in a good spots like you know the bangles are kind of still on the forefoot here a little bit so I i I would have loved to have been in a spot where they could go for it

I think losing yardage kind of put them in a tricky place, right? Because they were probably like, oh, fourth and three we're going for it. And then all of a sudden, four and five. And they're like, ah, like, wait a little bit more in a gray area. And then, yeah, how hurt was Mahomes, right? Like, we got three seconds of him, like, kind of hobbling over to the sideline. Like, I've seen him do that on a play and, like, hobble into the no huddle and then, like, throw a 40-yard bomb. You know what I'm saying?

It's like, I don't, I don't, like, that's, it's so difficult to judge because you don't really know how, how gimpy actually is. That's your job, like you say, see, see him take a time out and figure that out. If I'm a Bengals fan and they go for it, I'm more worried. If I'm a Bengals fan, I breathe desirally when the field goal unit goes out there. Any moment 15 isn't on the field, like you feel good as a Bengals fan. Like you have the band. It's just like, all right, this is fine. We can deal with this.

All right. Are we missing anything here before we move on to Dolphins 49ers? I will say comfort for Chiefs fans. Like you're still 9 and 3. You're so great, whatever. And also, you got a real one for Checo. A big box to check on your playoff checklist was do we have a real running game by the time we get to January? Yeah.

Pacheco can play. This is what you needed out of figuring out of your back. You're going to be all right. Yeah. Like everything we said about Piron like applies to Pichico today. Pichron's a little smarter. Pacheco's kind of nuts. No, no.

I mean like that tough runner that they haven't had. They haven't had a guy that just runs and like gets an extra two yards every time. Yeah. I love that gap. Pacheco is wild. man. Still 9 and 3, but since the bills have the tiebreaker and they're now tied for best record in the AFC, not an insignificant loss because the chiefs now have to essentially gain ground if they want the number one seed. I trust 15. I do think like this was a huge win for the Bengals or a huge weekend. The schedule doesn't seem as daunting as it did, like even a week ago.

Because now they've gotten past the hardest team. Lamar's hurt now and who knows if he'll be available for that game. I don't know. I feel a lot better about this team going forward and their chances of not only making the playoffs, I thought they were like a shoe in for the playoffs, but having a good seating. All right. Let's do 49ers Dolphins. 49ers win 33 to 17. Let's save the Jimmy Garablo conversation and the implications of that injury for the end here.

But you guys did such a good job of previewing this game as the battle for the middle of the field. and the dolphins come out on offense and score a touchdown immediately to the middle of the field. And then after that point, we're pretty much bottled up. So it seems like ultimately the 49ers came out on top of that to a completed two balls between the hashes. One was the other deep touchdown pass to Hill, just to be fair. But in general, they had a really tough time in that area. Obviously, it is a privilege. to sign Fred Warner's checks

and the rest of that linebacking crew did a really good job. Ben, did this play out sort of how you saw it coming in terms of the chess match over that territory? I thought the Dolphids would be better than this. I thought the Dolphins had a shot to win the game.

And even if like the 49ers end up winning, Fred Warner ends up out on top, the Niners scheme ends up being better. The pressure with no one arm said, no Austin Jackson, like that ends up mattering too much. I had forgotten just how quickly the rattle gets to two a man. It's faster than any quarterback in the league.

And like, this is not like I don't want to do a two-a-thing. All we ever do every single week is a two-a-thing. We all been doing two-a-things forever. I don't know how you parse this besides when you pressure this guy. The drop-off is greater, more precipitous, more rapid than any quarterback in the league. and for every, like, you know, stat that there is, like, look how good to do it is, you know, like EPA and like how good he is, like, you know, pressure, and he's the in the blitz and like, you know,

first down and on third down on this and like, like, everything like, no, yeah, everything. Like, for all the stats you want to do, I watch the player and, and, and with my very limited football sensibilities, having never played the game, I've never coached, I watch him and I go, okay, if I could hit him three times, we're good. You think defense coordinators aren't, all right, we just got to, like, we just got to find a way to survive the first quarter and get four legs on him. because Tua's missing extremely easy throws that he obviously can make, let alone tons of other quarterbacks can obviously make in clean pockets with happy feet,

off timing. Like, he just was so uncomfortable in this game. Now, a important undercurrent besides the pressure to a make him sad, you know, kind of narrative that I think is going to come out of this approach is that D'Amico Ryan's put corners on the line of scrimmage.

And he said, I'm not just going to pressure too. I'm going to pressure Tyreek. I'm going to pressure Jalen Waddle and Waddle was healthy. Waddle being absent for a part of this game was important. Trent Scherfield, Mike is like, I'm going to push these guys. Because so much of Tua's third down production

when they get into empty and they go dropback is, okay, yeah, you can beat Liam Mikenberg when he's in there. You can beat Robert Hohen, right? You can get your interior win. But Tua's got the ball out so fast to a receiver who got downfield so quickly and then just turned around in space that's not going to matter, right? Like you pressure this guy sounds easy until the ball's out 1.5 seconds to a speedy receiver in space. Nobody wanted to put corners in line of scrimmage.

Every team the Dolvins have played, Skylar Thompson, Teddy Bridgewater, two-buttonable. It doesn't matter. Nobody's wanted to put corners on the line with these receivers. D'emico put on his big boy pants and did. It's like Fred's a huge part of this, but so is Tiberius Ward and Diomerolyn-Nor, and Sean Gibson and the players that got up on the line of scrimmage and said, we're going to lose some of these reps.

We're going to get embarrassed. Bad film, ugly film. I'm going to get laughed at in the DB room on Tuesday on some of these reps. But we're going to win enough of them that Nick Bost is going to get home enough that this Jenga Tower, this House of Cards, gets a piece pulled out and then we see the way this thing falls, right? It's such a fragile build. It's such an impressive build, Miami's offense,

but it's such a fragile build. The Niners hit the pressure points, and this is the outcome that you get. I think that's huge. And it's a fragile thing on the other side, right? Because if you mess up more of those reps and those plays end up being long touchdowns, then you make of them,

things can get out of hand really quickly. But I came away feeling like that, is kind of a massive thing because the dolphins, like the dolphins play the bills and the jets in the next month. Neither one of those teams has a Fred Warner. Nobody else has a Fred Warner.

You guys talked about this on Friday. It's not on any other roster. But there are other defenses that could put corners on the line of scrimmage and count on their lines to get pressure. And the idea that you're going to have one special guy in the middle of the field who's just going to erase,

that section for the offense, that's not replicable for anybody else. But looking at this dolphin's offense and going, it's all about timing. We have to disrupt the timing. And if we disrupt the timing and rattle Tua, he might have a performance closer to 18 to 33, 54 percent season average is 67 percent completions.

than in that 67 area where they like to live. I'm not saying everybody can do it this well. But I sort of thought that the 49ers defense could do a really good job on this Dolphins offense. And we would come away from it going, if you're not the 49ers, it doesn't really matter. And there was more from that that seemed replicable. Yeah.

This wasn't just Fred dominating. And we, we, we said on the preview show, like they love quarters. I love to play off, right? The Tyreek touchdown, quarters, off coverage. This is what the Niners do best.

Then just boom, Tyreek Yon opened a 40-R touchdown, right? You can't live in that world. Everybody in the entire world has been playing split-field zone against the Niners. Their second highest in the league in terms of split-field coverage face,

their lowest in the league in terms of man coverage rate-faced. You can have a Fred, you can have an Earl, you can have a Lawrence Taylor, Ed Reed, hybrid, Troy Palomalo out there. You've got to be able to push

the receiver's line of scrimmage. You cannot allow them off the line, and you're going to get burned. But the important thing to understand about this Dolphins offense is that you are going to get burned, no matter what you play, no matter how you play it, no matter who's healthy and who's not. Like this stat from NGS is so, is the best stat for this game. Niners won. They won emphatically, 14 points for the dolphins, hassled two of the whole game. Next-gen stats.

Tyree Kill was able to find space in the 49ers defense, recording 10 open targets of three-plus yards of separation in week 13. 10 targets of three plus yard separation. That's like a dominant game. That's unbelievable. He was wide open all the time. But it's a fragile build. So if you can just get a grain of sand in the cogs of the watch,

if you can just get a little hiccup in here, the Jenga Tower falls. You just crank it up. Yeah, just you have to frank it up. If you can disrupt it enough that you get negative plays, you get turnovers and you get sacks, then Tyreeks 10 open targets of 3 plus yards, of separation is 40 yard post touchdown, catch, and run aren't going to be enough.

So assume, enter the game plan, knowing you're going to get burned sometimes, and ask yourself, how can we create enough positives on defense to negate the positives that they create an offense? I don't know much about how bowling scoring works, so I might expose myself here, but for me, I'm going from what comes next. Yeah. Like, you know, like, I think you get an amount of points for a strike based on what happens in your next frame. Is that right? Does anyone else know bowling? But that's how I feel about this

game for Dolphins fans. Like I don't think this is a red flag unless next week they have some of the same problems. Now next week they're playing a bad defense. The bowling metaphor helped you zero. Yeah, you didn't know it's like a six out of ten for me. If like the chargers replicate this plan

and give them the same problems, this game is a one out of ten. Oh my God, this is a red flag. This is bad for this team going forward. I don't necessarily think that's the case. I thought another thing that the 49 is. Do you mean one out of 10 like DefCon 1? Because one out of 10 sounds not as bad as my grade like five out of 10 or 10 out of 10. Oh my grade of their performance. A 1 out of 10, 10 percent. Right now it's like a D. It's a D. But but I think one thing that they did was they made to a throw over the second level of the

defense rather than through the second level of the defense. And that takes good coaching. That takes good linebackers who have good instincts, that takes good zone discipline and spacing. That's hard to replicate. But I will say this about the Chargers defense. If they do one thing well, they space their zones well in zone. And Brandon Staley generally gets his secondary in the right place.

What happens after that is anyone's guess. But I do think they have a chance of replicating that aspect of it. It's one of life's beautiful mysteries. Nora and Stephen, you both mentioned this. And I think it's important because I love Fred so much. that all I want to do is talk about Fred. Drey Greenlaw and Aziz Al-Shayir. Oh, man.

The liners got the best linebacker and then the best second and third linebackers, dude. I mean, by the second half, when the Niners are playing, you know, they're up in the line of scrimmage. The dolphins try to hit them with a bunch of crossing routes. Tariq going to the flats,

get Tariq going to the shallows. If you're going to play Pressman, we're just going to run horizontal. We're trying to get after the catch stuff going. They had Dree Greenlaw. Man's wearing 57. Chasing Tyreek. killed down into the boundary, man. And he's keeping stride. Holy smoke, something else.

The closing speed on that man is unbelievable. Bad out of hell. Also, can I say one thing related to the 49ers? No more Palomalu comps for Hufunga. Yeah. I get the cops because the playing style, but Falamalu was like an elite athlete and a hafunga, I do think that got exposed a little bit. Hufanga grew up idolizing Palomalu. He's like from the, I think the same general area. And he went to USC and like the hair is very similar. And so like it's so easy. And then you watch him try to put the wheels on. You're like, oh, that's not it, man. Great player in a box. I think this is going to be a, I think that's a tough ask, Stephen. It's because of the hair. Yeah, it's impossible. I'm never going to do it. I'm never going to do it. I've never done it. I will never do it. Okay. Congrats. All right. Thanks.

That's great for you, buddy. I'm proud of you. All right. Let's talk about the Brock party of all of this, because Jimmy Gropolo, very sadly, broke his foot out for the rest of the season. The Bucks, Seahawks, commanders, raiders, cardinals are who the 49ers have down the stretch. They're a game ahead of the Seahawks. Obviously, did just fine. Offense scored 33 points.

That was mostly with Purdy at the helm. There's something incredibly charming to me about Kyle Shanahan having an offense with literally Mr. Irrelevant at quarterback when it feels like that has been the role he has asked his quarterbacks to play for years now. So now the narrative has really come to life. But how much do we think this hurts unless someone wants to argue that it helps? San Francisco for the rest of the season and going into the playoffs? A lot. Yeah. A lot. I think that those splits between like,

Kyle's record with Jimmy and without Jimmy are misleading. But they do matter. And they matter because usually the quarterbacks they have coming in for Jimmy are bad quarterbacks. And like Brock Purdy played well, but he was Mr. Irrelevant for a reason. And I think the one thing he lacks that Jimmy has is some arm talent. I don't think Purdy has arm talent. And I do think like Jimmy was creating more.

Even in this game, there was like a play where he kind of broke the pocket and threw it to McCaffrey. I don't know if Purdy's going to bring that extra layer where, like, I'm thinking of like when John Wolford replaced Jared Gough. And it was like, Wolfert's a worst quarterback, but I get why this might make the offense a little bit better. I don't think you even have that layer to it with Purdy coming in for Jimmy G. Yeah. Well, I think the other thing about that was that Jared Goff and Sean McVey were locked in a deep battle of mutual hatred at the time. More importantly, Sean McVeigh was allowed to call Zone Reed. absolutely just opening up

open up the tank uh Brock Purdy that third and 10 man free rusher just grifted and rifted it to uh I think it was John

yeah John over the middle that was a two of play that was a two a throw by the way it's a two of the second he made that throw I was like right sick he has exactly what he needs to succeed in the offense I don't need to see anything else he's got the one thing you need

which is just don't care about your body don't read the defense blind confidence that some guys get to be open over the middle just hook it, just put it somewhere between the ashes, there'll be a tall, talented athlete. He'll catch that thing for you. So he's got that going for him.

He is the most average of all of the average quarterbacks to ever play in this offense, man. Like, just look at him too. Like, he's not even like Nate Sunfeld, who was a tall. He's just a generic, just Brock Ferdie, man. You said, who did you say wasn't built for this on the Friday show? You're just the throat.

The back of left tackle, Blake Brandel, the left tackle over the Vikings. Yeah. Brock is just, Brock's just, speaking of another piece of shit. No, I didn't do that.

The, as a draft guy, I was intimately familiar with Brock Bertie's Iowa state career. And he started as a freshman. He was awesome. And then he just got a little bit worse

every single year. He Benjamin Buttoned his career. Is that the type of sentence that makes you want to reconsider everything? Yep. He just Benjamin buttoned every year and now he's just, he's on like backup quarterback to offensive coordinator to Division III head coach. He's on the G.J. Kinney track just right now, baby. This is his just like

peak moment of like occasional scrambles and it's going to be delightful and the Niners are going to be out in a lot of card round. It's going to be so cool when they look back at this game in the highlight package when he's like coaching the Packers in like 10 years. His first, his first career win will come against the Dolphins as like an offensive coordinator. Everybody would be like, yeah. Two will be his quarterback too. All right. You guys are making me sad, so I'm ending the segment. Thank you very much, Ben, for joining us, as always.

Good football, man. Let's do it again next week. What does the whiteboard say? Oh, Brock Purdy has a brother named Chuba. Unfamiliar with Chuba? Chubba. Born. Oh, what is it?

It's like Prentice or Winston or something really freaking irritating. I'll find it. Hang on. But anyway, he was a real big baby. 38 pounds on his first birthday per his dad. So his dad started calling him Chubba and it stuck. And then he went... Wait, sorry, 38 pounds on what?

I think on his first birthday, let me find the article. Hang tight. Oh, on his first birthday. I thought you said it birth. No, no, no. Yeah, 38 pounds as a one-year-old. Here from the article, quote, just gigantic, Sean Purdy said.

So I think he went to Perry. Yeah, he was born Preston. I think he went to Perry and then he went to Florida State Chubba Purdy. So yeah, the whiteboard today says Brock Bertie has a brother named Chubba. He's more built for this as a one-year-old than Brock Bertie was as like a 22-year-old. That man's ready to play fullback. All right. New big Lou drop.

Thank you, Ben. I'm ending this. New Big Lou drop. This has been the headline. Headlines is brought to you by the quarter-pounder with cheese from McDonald's. The quarter-pounder with cheese. The QPC is sort of like a QB. It's a star because it's surrounded by all the right teammates.

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www.8800 gambler.net in West Virginia. All right, let's get to winners and losers. We're doing this slightly differently because we're approaching playoff time and some of the teams have sort of weeded themselves out. Also, there were such great games this week. It felt worth it to have time to just focus on the best of the bunch. So instead of two winners and two losers for each, of us, Stephen and I each just have one winner and one loser since we did the double

headline. And so we can focus a little bit more on these games. So, Stephen, who's your winner for the day? My winner, my first winner is the Vikings who won 27 to 22 against the Jets. But I almost feel weird calling them winners and calling the Jets losers because I really thought the Jets were the better team. And I think you come away from this game as a Jets fan. You have that last wild card spot right now. Mike White is playing good football. He played good football. He was the quarterback on the field today. The defense is continuing to play at a very high level. I thought the only reason they gave up 27 points was because of turnovers. And for the Vikings, this is the thing, like I think we wanted to see them against good teams after they kind of built up a good record

against playing close games against bad teams. But I do think this ending stretch where they're playing a bunch of, I think average to below average teams gave them a chance to really like prove to us that they're real. And I thought I wanted to see them blow out a team. I wanted to see them play a team and you come away from the game and you're thinking they're definitely better than that other team. And I think that's been rare so far this year, even in the big wins like against Buffalo. But I think this is still a win because you had Kirk Cousins playing maybe the worst game of his season so far and they still made it work and they still won the game. And that's something that I don't think Vikings teams in the past could overcome like a terrible Kirk Cousins game. And this was a terrible Kirk Cousins game.

There were no like turnovers, but he could not hit a throw to save his life. But they can win. And like these are the types of teams that they're going to have to go up against in the NFC. There's no like strong elite offense or quarterback offense combination. Like you don't have to worry about Patrick Mahomes. You don't have to worry about Joe Burrow. You don't have to worry about Josh Allen. I think if your defense can play like this against talented offenses with limited

quarterbacks and your defense can do enough in the run game to to play. around a bad Kirk Cousins game, you could win one or two playoff games. And coming into this week, I didn't know if the Vikings could do that. I didn't know if they could win a game like this. And at least they check that one box. Yeah, I think you got to give them some credit. The offense is so inconsistent. This is so classic Vikings.

They had three drives that netted 235 yards. The other nine drives, the rest of the game, just excluding the kneel down at the end, 53 on a combined nine drives. It feels like they are either. putting together a march down the field touchdown drive or they're going three and out. And often there's very little in between. I think that's one of the more vexing things about the Vikings. But I heard you guys make a really good case on the Friday show for why this Jets defense had a lot of similarities to the Cowboys defense that really shut them down. So I think it's meaningful that, look, they scored 27

points, right? And there's turnovers. There's extra possessions. But I don't think that you can completely discount that, particularly when, you know, Justin Jefferson didn't have a big game. They were able to find ways to make it happen, whereas their biggest loss this season, right? We saw them get completely blanked and just totally shut down.

So I think it's a step forward. Yeah, this is like, they won in a way that we haven't seen them really win. Like they played a bunch of close games. But like Jefferson getting shut down, Kirk being poor and inconsistent, we have not seen them win a game like that this year. And I think that they're still proving that they can win games in different ways. I still have a lot of questions about their ceiling.

But I do think like this type of game raises their floor, at least in my opinion, or for me, from my perspective. That makes sense to me. I think the only where I have pause is with what you said about the rest of the NFC because my first winner is the Eagles who beat the Titans 35 to 10. And now maybe you're talking about teams that they might face in the first round of the playoffs or something like that. And that wouldn't be Philadelphia.

But I thought the biggest thing from this game was that the Eagles passing offense looked incredible. Obviously, this was the AJ Brown revenge game. He had eight catches on 10 targets for 119 yards and two touchdowns. and Hertz had one of his best passing performances of the season. It was his second career game with 300 plus passing yards, three passing touchdowns and a rushing touchdown. And the through the air part of that,

I think was incredibly impressive. And also after we've seen them, you know, stumble a little bit, relatively speaking over the last month or so in a couple of games, it was really good to see them just come out going, okay, Titans have a pretty stout run defense, but they can't defend the pass. We are just going to throw it all over the field and absolutely be able to do that at will. And for me, what it reinforces is that there are so many ways this Eagles team can win.

And I think that's what makes them really, really scary. And beating the Titans this way, to me, really, really reinforced that. I think defensively, they copied a lot of what the Bengals did against the Titans last week, which was not blitzing and just sort of trusting their defensive front to win enough and to focus on bottling up Derek Henry and then manning up a lot on the back end. And they just did all of that pretty solidly, pretty effectively. Henry had 30 yards on 11 carries. Obviously, a really frustrating day for him. And then Tannhill was sacked six times. The Titans are really, really struggling to block.

But they just, they didn't get burned by any of those guys getting past the first level and having room to run. It seemed like the defense was really sound. And they had a game plan that worked. And the offense was just sort of throwing the ball at will. So I think a really impressive all around performance that drives home that, you know, if you have one strength. that's not really enough against this team because they can win in so many different ways.

Yeah. Like on paper, this seemed like a bad matchup for the Seagulls team, like on both sides of the ball. Because they've had problems stopping the run. They've had problems stopping the run up the middle and against like powerful running backs. And like there's no more powerful running back than Derek Henry. And then like on the other side of the ball, we've celebrated this defense for the past month and Mike Frable and their ability to put together a game plan for that specific opponent that specific week. And there were questions about the conceptual diversity for this offense, because they did have to, they do like play the hits a lot.

Like they lean into certain concepts more, more so than other teams. They, like, the Titans had no answer for them on offense. They did not have an answer. And this is also a defense that does a good job of disguising coverages and blitzing and from awkward angles and weird angles. And that was the book on Jalen Hertz was like he was, he had struggled against the blitz. Most of the time he's been good, but the one time he has struggled, it's been when teams pressure him.

Again, unfazed. This was his best game. I agree with you. Like, this was very impressive on his part. Like in the pocket, throwing downfield, which we've seen all year long. But the pocket stuff is really what impressed me. And this is a meaningful win. Like, this matters.

Like, this matters more than the Vikings win for the Jets. I think this was a statement game. And now with Jimmy G's injury, it's hard not to feel like the Eagles are the best team. in that NFC. Right. It's right. So Jimmy G gets hurt. The,

as we're recording, the Cowboys are looking like they're going to pull a game, pull a win out against the Colt, but aren't looking exactly, uh, like a terrifying Super Bowl contender. Obviously, it's just one game.

But overall, I think this, this Eagles team that had, you know, so much of the first half of the season, it felt like, oh my God, they're this undefeated team. they're very clearly the team to be in the NFC and maybe that fell off a little bit.

I still think that's them. I think they just have the most ways to win. And there are nits to pick with the coaching. But overall, I trust the people running the show and the quarterbacks throwing the ball really, really well. And if they can win like this against a team that looks like a bad matchup, they should be the favorite. Yeah, I think when they play the Cowboys, that's the game where we figure out who the best team is. And I am like holding the 49ers out of this conversation because of the quarterback injury.

But like if it property can replicate like 80%, 90% of what Jimmy G has done, I think they have a chance to be in that conversation. But I do think like the Eagles separated themselves from the pack this week. Ugh. I'm sad about the Niners. Yeah. It's a bummer. They're a fun team. It seemed like they had, and they're just so weird.

Like the whole, the Jimmy situation is so weird. My favorite thing about it was that he didn't seem mad. Like every quarterback in football, we talk up and down Monday to Sunday about how petty they all are. And like, Jimmy got kicked to the curb after being, after being ahead in the fourth quarter of a Super Bowl and just sort of like didn't mind. It was just sort of like, yeah, whatever. It's a pretty good team. I'll come back. No hard feelings, man.

Like, that's a great vibe. I'm sad and had to end this way. No, yeah. I think, like, this year for him has been huge, like, for his reputation going forward. I think there was, like, a reality going forward where he wasn't going to be a starting quarterback again. Like, I think if, like, the cards would have fallen a certain way.

But now I think, like, he's solidified himself. Maybe in San Francisco, but definitely elsewhere. He took some strides as a player. Yeah. Two. Not massive ones. The last full game we saw in play, it was not exactly electric. But it, you know, he's always going to throw a pick or two against robber.

But it felt like the disaster plays were maybe a little bit fewer and farther between. And it seemed like he was throwing down field a little bit more than we're used to from him. Yeah. So, you know, won't. Speaking of sad, though. You want my first loser? Yes, Stephen, laid on me. First loser. There was no winner in this game, especially not me having to watch the game later on.

But my next loser is the Ravens. They lose the game 10 to 9. It felt like they lost this game. Their defense played well against the Broncos. Broncos offense that I think, sadly enough, may have had one of its better games, and they scored nine points. Like, they got the play action passing game going for, like, really only the second time all year long. The first time was week one against Seattle.

they ran under center well there was just nothing else to the game though they had nothing else and Russell Wilson struggled once again against a good disciplined Ravens defense but the Ravens are my loser because they lose Lamar Jackson to a knee injury I don't think we have information on the scope

of the injury at this point but it doesn't seem great and then it's a sprain Harbaugh said yeah and this is the same week last year when he got hurt and it was basically the same situation with the Bengals, eight and four. Both teams are eight and four, but the eight and four for the Ravens feels totally different from the eight and four for the Bengals. The Ravens have an easier schedule, but they've played these last two games against the Panthers, against the Broncos now,

and they've struggled. They've needed last second scores to pull these games out. I think this is, that was the end for this team, even if Lamar does return eventually. The offense wasn't looking good with him in the game. It was only a quarter, but this is. like three weeks in a row where it seems like the margin for error is just too small for even him to overcome. So at this point, I'm willing to say like, I'm the Ravens, they're canceled. I'll see you next year. It's not expecting a cancellation on the spot. Yeah. So I will confess to not having watched a single snap of this game. Lucky you. And just seeing sad low light videos of Lamar like sort of limping back through the tunnel. I believe Harbaa described the injury as,

being tentatively expected to affect him for days, two weeks. So not a lot of specificity there. But it doesn't sound great. I don't, there are so many, like Ben's favorite thing is to cite all the win probabilities with like 10 seconds left in the game. And I get that all of that should add up to a good team and a good offense. I just, it's just been hard to see it. Everything seems so like they are squeezing every drop of juice from the orange with all of their might on every single play.

And it just doesn't, doesn't feel like something that's headed for greatness. And those losses that they gave away, they're in the books already. And that team that was like building those leads and then blowing them is not the same team that we're seeing now. this team is not capable of even building the leads. And even the game-winning drive was like pure slop. I think Huntley went eight for eight, but there were like two penalties that were the big plays and the rest of the throws were behind the line of scrimmage

and then there were quarterback runs mixed in. It was not like a convincing drive. It wasn't like Greg Roman putting together a smart plan for that last drive and calling good plays. It was just the Broncos defense kind of giving the game away. It was role reversal. Like the Ravens got a game they shouldn't have one. And I don't know what it means going forward, but it's not going to be good, especially with the Bengals ascending like they are.

The Bengals are ascending. The same thing that happened last year. I really think when they match up later on in the month, it might be a blowout. Schedule's probably late enough and they've built enough of a cushion that they can, they don't have to do very much the rest of the way. Obviously, if they did really, really, really fall off the teams that that would match. or four would be the Patriots for the Chargers. If there's another playoff spot up for grabs, but they have a fairly reasonable cushion. So I don't know that that's necessarily going to happen,

particularly because we've seen Huntley and he's at least somewhat competent. And this Broncos defense for all the troubles of the offense is pretty good. So I don't know that the expectation should be they're going to score 10 points a week from here on out and, you know, the ship is totally sinking. But the ceiling is pretty low. Yeah. Is I think the way. The ship is at least taking on water right now. Taking a little bit of water. Yeah. All right. So this is supposed to be my, my loser. I want to talk about the giants and the commanders who tied 2020. And I guess fittingly,

because they tied, I don't quite know how to feel about this. I think ultimately this should be a commander's L because generally speaking, I think they're probably the better team at this point. I thought the Giants were surprisingly competitive just because the commander's offense, they're just going through the game and you're realizing like they just have so much more at the skill positions. But New York got Daniel Jones back to running the ball, which mattered a lot. He had 71 yards on 12 carries. That was his most since week seven.

And it really helped them offensively. And then defensively, I thought that was the surprise of the game was just how good they looked on, good the Giants looked on defense. I was expecting, you know, I was coming into the game thinking a lot about the Washington defensive front against the Giants offensive line, which is obviously not a strength. But Heineke dealt with more pressure than Daniel Jones did. He took five sacks. Tibado looks so good. So, you know, whatever ends up happening this season, I think they can feel pretty good about some of the pieces there.

But ultimately, even though all that is true. And I just felt like, okay, the Giants are playing better relative to my expectation. And the commanders look a little bit worse relative to how I thought this would turn out. that also, by the way, holds with some of the playoff predictor machines just in terms of,

I think the 538 model has the giants benefiting a little bit based on tying and the commanders having their likelihood of a playoff berth going down slightly because of a tie. But so I think

ultimately you have to put it down as a commander's L because of all of those things. That said, the Giants lost this game like six separate times. It was just a really couple things where it was like, come on. They get the ball, the Washington 47, there's six minutes left. They're up by a touchdown.

They have to go maybe 15 yards, hit a field goal, make it a two score game. There's going to be a few minutes left. You should be good, right? They run three plays. They lose two yards. They punt. Washington gets the ball at the 10, drives 90 yards. including completing a 20-yard pass to Curtis Samuel on fourth and four.

And they score a touchdown, tie the game. Just generally speaking, the Giants had four consecutive scoring drives from the end of the first quarter to a little bit after halftime. And they did a lot of that by leaning on Jones running, ground game. And then somewhere down the line, Daniel Jones, Brian Dable, whoever, the brain trust decided, let's run a pure drop back passing offense. And they didn't score after 11 minutes and 34 seconds were left in the third quarter. So the Giants defense was probably the most encouraging and impressive thing on the field relative to expectations. The tie is slightly better for them than it is for Washington.

So commanders L for those reasons. but if the Giants have won this game, I think it would have felt like an upset. And they let an opportunity to do that. They let several opportunities to do that really get away from them when it shouldn't have. And they had this situation where these teams are playing back to back basically.

The Giants have a biweek splitting up the games. And when you're the less talented... The commanders have a by week splitting up the games. The Giants have to play the Eagles. Yeah, yeah. But they play back to back. And I feel like when you're the less talented team, you have a better chance in that first game before you start to play

before you play all your cards. Like you play the Daniel Jones running game card. And now they're going to have an answer for it. Yeah, it was at MetLife. So yeah, this just, it feels like an L for the Giants, honestly. But like you said, big picture, stepping back. I feel like this game was you saw Tibido have a bit of a breakout. He had the big sack.

I think was that in overtime when he had the sack on the one yard line? And then the coaching staff, like putting together this plan in mitigating a huge mismatch. Like I felt like the offensive line, the Giants offensive line versus the Washington front was going to decide the game. And it didn't. They were able to coach around that mismatch. And even on the other side of the ball, like you said, the Giants defense played really well. And they've been really, really banged up. And it's hard to play this type of defense. The wink Martindale brand of defense when you're banged up and you're missing dudes in the secondary. And the coaching staff has just been coaching around these issues all season long. They're seven, five, and one. So even these games that feel like setbacks or missed operas. in the grand scheme of things have to feel good if you're a Giants fan. I don't know what to feel. Those are ties. Yeah. All right.

So those are our winners and losers. This is normally where we get to our non-headline. Since we're doing things a little bit differently with the format this week, we're going to scrap that as well. Obviously, this was this week also included Deshaun Watson's first game back from his suspension for sexual assault. according to the league's findings. We're going to take a quick look at that game and talk a little bit about how it was covered. Obviously, this is a really sensitive topic.

And if it's not something that you want to listen to, thanks for listening to the show and staying with us thus far. Feel free to hop off. We're going to talk a little bit about Cleveland, Houston, and some of the coverage. Stephen, I know you watched a lot of that game. What did you see? Yeah.

Like on the field, I don't think we really learned anything about Cleveland just because it was so disjointed. Deshawn Watson was, I don't think he played well at all. But the thing that stood out to me was CBS's coverage of it. Because I did think it started out well, well, like fine enough, especially in the pregame show. They had James Brown kind of like explained what was happening. It was the only pregame show that I watched that actually named what he was being accused of. We didn't get that at all for the rest of the. the broadcast of the game, not for the rest of the pregame show, not for the, the broadcast.

It was totally, it just was ignored. And I thought the commentators were ill-prepared. And it's a hard position to put them in because that's not their job and this is not the expectation. But Spiro Dides and Jay Feely, man, it would have been better if they just ignored the situation altogether. I thought some of the language they use, like not even discussing it, like just in the game, some of the language they used to describe Deshawn Watson's play, I thought was

really tone deaf. Like they, like, they threw it to commercial one time. And the commentator said something like, oh, Deshawn Watson's back in his old stomping grounds, which I think is a loaded language to use,

especially considering what he was doing in the city of Houston. And then when he threw an interception, they said, like, that's his first big mistake. I just think there's a better language to use. And then you had a moment where, obviously,

the women that brought, the suit against him, I had a suite. Tony Busby, the lawyer, had them at the game. There was no mention of that, but they did show Deshawn Watson suite in the support system he had there, and they'd never mentioned those women. And I thought that was the biggest failure by CBS in that game, not mentioning that and not naming what is actually happening here. It was as bad as you could have done without, like, overtly being bad about it. Yeah, it was very uncomfortable watching the game. Yeah, look, I know I'm really personally conflicted on a lot of levels about the right way to talk about the Browns, whether to talk about the Browns, how to talk about Watson,

whether or not it makes sense to focus so much, as is the thing that feels most natural to me to do right now on the coverage, because that simultaneously feels like, okay, it's not the biggest issue here, right? The biggest issue is just what happened, but it's also, we're a little bit closer to it. We're in that media world. And also, this is something that worked its way through a civil legal process. The league and act of discipline, you might agree with that. You might not. They used the collectively bargained process to do that. And we are in this stage where what's happening is sort of we're all figuring out how to deal with it because he's playing football and the Browns are playing football and they may or not be a relevant team.

Right now, not so much. But it has startled me how bad a lot of the coverage has been, frankly. Because last night in the middle of the night, Adam Schefter tweets a link to a story headlined sources. QB Watson shows, quote, progress in program with the sentence accompanying the tweet being Deshaun Watson has made what NFL and NFLPA experts have discussed. as, quote, signs of progress during his mandatory treatment program per sources. Adam Schaefter is one of the most high-profile sports journalists in the world.

And look, I don't want to be naive, nor do I think I am, about how a lot of reporting works, how often, you know, single source reporting is done in sports. That's not necessarily a bad thing. A lot of the time that that means that we know things that we otherwise wouldn't. But in this case, you have a story that's incredibly vague on where the sources come from. It's just league sources. And those sources, whoever they are, didn't seem to provide Schefter or ESPN with any fact-based information. So usually if you are going to give someone anonymity, especially in a sensitive situation, usually it's because

one, you're not going to get the information unless they have that anonymity. But two, that information is actual information, is fact-based information. It's not usually supposed to be giving someone a platform for their unsubstantiated opinion without the accompanying accountability of attaching their name to it. And I don't know who Adam's sources are, obviously. And I could certainly take some guesses, but I really don't know. At the end of the day, we don't know.

He and his editors are the only people who know. But if it's someone affiliated with Watson in some way or a team that benefits by him playing well and by potentially having a better public perception. And he and ESPN are offering them a platform to promote the idea that he's taking good faith steps towards some kind of growth or remedy is certainly the wrong word, but something positive.

Without Watson himself, indicating in any number of the public chances he's had to do so, that he feels any sort of remorse or admits that he did anything wrong or expresses any type of contrition, then I will leave sort of like moral rights and wrongs out of it. I just really shudder at the lack of critical thinking because it doesn't make sense to me on a journalistic level and it also just doesn't make sense to me on the level of someone who understands human motivation and reason and could look at all of those things and go, all right, maybe this isn't a good idea. It wasn't newsworthy.

I think that's the thing that stands out so much. Like if you, the difference between the information in the article, if you actually clicked on it and Reddit wasn't any more substantial than what was in the tweet. Like that was basically the article. There was no fact-based information. Nothing. So it would be one thing if someone said, I cannot attach my name to this, but I can tell you and I can provide you with evidence that he's been to X appointments and why has happened. You know, I don't know what it is.

But maybe there's value in that, depending on what that information is, right? Like there's probably some versions of that that still aren't newsworthy. But none of that existed. It's just, hey, take my word for it. Whenever anyone involved in this, particularly Watson is in public, but also his lawyer and his agent who have repeated that he denies any sort of wrongdoing. Whenever they're in public, whenever any names are attached, it's nothing wrong. At the very least, can't talk about it. And this seems to paint a different picture.

So I'm having trouble squaring those things. And without the necessary information to actually back that up, you're right. It doesn't seem newsworthy. And I think like this aspect of the story matters less, like how people who are unaffected by what Deshaun Watson did, kind of how their their football watching experience is affected. I don't think that matters at all. But I was kind of shocked at how little I felt about his performance. Like I thought, and I mean, we're not supposed to root against players, but like in a situation like

this, you kind of like want to see the situation fail. you don't want to see these these the browns rewarded for this right so i thought i would take more pleasure in him not playing well and it didn't matter at all to me like it did yeah it felt nothing about it and it kind of was like disappointing that you kind of realized like this has been he kind of won already he escaped he got his his contract he got paid it's fully guaranteed literally nothing he does will take that take away from that he could play the worst brand of football we've ever seen be the Worst quarterback ever, get Benz for Jacobi Brissette next week. And it doesn't matter.

He got this already. And I think that's the first time I realized that there was not going to be a reckoning and that this was already resolved. This is just how it. This is what it is now. He's in the NFL now. I don't know. It was hard. It was the first time I think I realized that I wasn't going to get any closure on this.

We weren't going to get any closure on this story and that the story was actually already resolved and it didn't go the way that people necessarily wanted it to go. Yeah. To be perfectly honest, I don't, I really do not know what to think or what to feel. Obviously, you know, there's Browns fans who just want to root for a football team and have that source of entertainment. And I certainly don't begrudge anybody that, but it's just, it's a very odd, it's an odd situation and so far the coverage has not been particularly, I think, astute or helpful in terms

of guiding people on just like, this is a sort of unprecedented situation. What are the relevant details? What's what's the best way to kind of navigate all of it? But he's back, played his first game. Brown's one and we'll see what happens next. Obviously, a very cheery note for us to end on, Stephen. Do you have anything more exciting to close this out with? Somehow the Cowboys now have over 50 points. Like when we started recording this. Yes, they have over 50 points somehow.

They have like 20 points like seven minutes ago in real time. That was like four minutes ago. They have like 54 points. All right. All right. Well, maybe take back what I said about the Eagles being the absolute top contender in the NFC. No one's still listening to this, right? I've seen multiple celebrations in the Salvation Army pot.

Multiple. Every time I look over a new cowboys in the Salvation Army pot. That's hysterical. Wow. Exciting. Good stuff. I'm going to go check that out then. Thank you so much for listening.

This has been the Ringer NFL Sunday recap show. Thank you so much to Stephen and to Ben. Next up on the feed, Sheal and Ben will have extra point taken their deep dive of week 13. As always, thank you to Isaiah Blakely for production on this episode with an additional production supervision by our Juno Rangipal.