The Ringer NFL Show - Week 14 Recap: Cowboys Roll Over the Eagles, the Bills Upset the Chiefs, and the Ravens Win an OT Thriller | Dual Threat

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Nora and Steven begin recapping Week 14 with their thoughts on the battle atop the NFC East between the Eagles and Cowboys. They discuss what this comfortable Cowboys win means for both teams moving forward, Dak Prescott’s MVP campaign, concerns for the Eagles, and more. Then, they go through their winners and losers for the week, including the Niners, Jaguars, Chargers and more (17:08), before wrapping up with the take purge (1:17:45). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Producer: Isaiah Blakely Social: Kiera Givens and Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For all your fantasy football needs, check out the Ringer Fantasy Football Show with me, Craig Horlebeck, along with Danny Hyfitts and Danny Kelly. That's the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And welcome to Doolfret. I'm Norfolk, Giotty. And I'm Stephen Ruiz. And it is week 14. It is Sunday night. We're going to break down all this week's games, starting with the headline. And that is the battle in the NFC East, Cowboys Eagles. Cowboys win dominantly 33 to 13.

Stephen, what did you take away from this Sunday night football game? Just the level of play that this whole offense. I'm not even going to give it to all the credit to Dak. It's the entire offense. And I thought Mike McCarthy, hey, to his credit, I've been questioning him all offseason, all regular season. That script, that game plan, A plus. I have no notes. No notes for Mike McCarthy on Sunday night.

What was it that you ached about it? I thought at the beginning of the game, they'd, really didn't put the game in Dax's hands in the same way they did in the first matchup. They took the teeth out of that pass rush. And there were a couple of plays where Hassan Reddick touched Dack Prescott. But outside of that, I thought the offensive line did a good job. And I thought the play calling really made their job easier. Really sort of not totally neutralized the Philly defense, but took the teeth out of that

pass rush. And then Dak, I mean, the throw to Michael Gallup, he always has a couple throws a game where it's just like one of the most satisfying, like right in the spot that. it has to be throws that you could ever see. So I agree with you that it kind of, it didn't put it all on him, but then you still get those flashes of brilliance. I saw, we're like two minutes into the pot and I'm not going to give proper credit for somebody's tweet, but I saw the numbers for DAC's last eight games being passed around.

And he's completed 69% of his passes. He's thrown for 2,44 yards. And his touchdown interception ratio is 25 to 2. the Cowboys are seven and one in that period. This is just, it is, it is really, they are humming. And then defensively, I mean, they held the Eagles without a touchdown on offense. I think Stefan Gilmore had a game that I didn't totally know he still had in him. Like this was sort of like a 2019 Patriots, Steph Gilmore.

I covered that team. He's an amazing player. I loved covering him. I loved watching him. I didn't know that this was something that we were going to get in the 2023 season. And it really makes you think about where this Cowboys team would stack up in the playoffs and in a potential Super Bowl run just because all three phases, we should say.

I mean, there's a lot of bones, John Fassell, the special teams coach, love happening on the broadcast. But this is just a really, really well-rounded team. did this game, I mean, they don't score a touchdown on offense from the Philadelphia perspective. Concerns, bad night, ran into a tough opponent. Where do you think the Eagles are right now? A little bit of everything. I don't think from the offensive perspective, it wasn't off night.

And this was kind of the inverse of the first game where they fumble three times and they recover all three of them. And tonight they don't recover any of them. And I think that's the difference. And there were a couple of plays, a couple of plays. deep balls where they just missed by like an inch or two where AJ Brown could have caught one that he usually catches. Devonday Smith, I think that one was a little tougher of the catch. It was right outside of his reach. But they moved the ball well, I thought, especially in the first half. They were averaging like seven yards per play at one point. I know a lot of that came on that

fake punt, which was a really good fake punt and a really good throw by them. Great fake punt. Love a fake punt. But outside of that, I thought they moved the ball all right. I didn't think it was like some like red flag performance for them. But on the other side of the ball, on the defensive side of the ball. The ability, now we've seen it two times in a row, or two weeks in a row, the ability to take that pass rush out of the equation and exploit that back seven in that middle of the field, two times in a row against contenders that they're going to have to beat in the playoffs. That's a red flag for me, not the offense. Seemed like that was going to be a tough matchup for Philly, just given how Doc is playing

right now and especially the connection that he has with the tight ends. And they did seem really vulnerable there. I mean, you know, there's still some injuries that they're dealing with and we'll see. But it does seem like the type of thing that as we get later in the season, they're coming up against good opponents. They know where the weaknesses are. The game plans are getting better and better. One thing I loved about how the Cowboys attacked the Eagles, I loved that we didn't hear the phrase Texas Coast at all. I thought that was actually a key to the game.

Suddenly, I don't know what happened. We've seen this offense in primetime games before and we hear Texas Coast all up and down. And today was just the West Coast offense. I don't know what changed. But I really think that that was the key to success. I think that made all the difference. You know, you can talk about DAC. You can talk about the play calling and how they matched up.

But I really thought that getting rid of that horrible nickname, I thought that was big. I feel like the difference between the Texas coast and the West Coast is Dak scrambling. That seemed to be the difference tonight. And that seemed to be like a thing he unlocked. Like you could hear like Chris Collinsworth and Mike Dorico talking about how, much buy-in they've gotten from Dak Prescott in this offense over the second half of the year. I mean, it makes sense with the numbers he's putting up. But he was also talking about how going from one to two in your progression to scramble mode has really helped him out. It's really been a lightball

moment for him. And like that's been something we've talked about the last couple of years after those really brutal injuries he suffered. There was the one ankle injury that was really, like it was hard to watch, really. And it made sense that he kind of dialed back his running after that. Like if I was him and I saw my ankle sideways on the field. It stopped running as much as I did. I actually would just stop playing football, but, you know. Yeah, I would have stopped playing football there too. But that's unlocked like another layer of him.

And you've seen him kind of combined his early career style where he was running more with this late career style where he's more, you know, a brainiac at the quarterback position. And it's really fun to watch. And then you throw in those throws that you were talking about earlier, those big time throws up the seam, up the post, up the sideline. And tonight it was a great performance for him and the offense all around. It is an interesting. I mean, I feel like Dak is one of those quarterbacks who he's just, he's hard, he's a hard nut to crack in terms of like where he belongs.

And I know I'm talking to someone who spends a solid portion of his week, uh, every week of the football season ranking quarterbacks. I think he always feels like he doesn't have quite that, that signature thing or a signature win. or a signature moment. And then, you know, people like you and I are sort of sitting here going like, oh, my God, this guy is so good. I promise he's so good. I promise he's so good. And it's sort of hard to figure out what to pin that to.

And I wonder if a lot of that is related to the progression that he's had over the course of his career going through that injury and just finding himself as a player. And it really seems like part of what's worked for them is some of the changes that they've made in the offense since last season and him buying into the scheme, but it really also does feel like him trusting his body and trusting his legs and just fully coming back. And it makes sense that an injury like that, you know, psychologically, if not physically, it's something that can take years. And I don't know if I'm just sort of projecting a narrative, but it really feels like that's the moment that DAC is in right now.

And I mean, do you think that he is the MVP right now? I mean, I think so. But I think it's going to be harder to make that argument with these games Brock Bertie's having. Because like you forget how it looks after like three weeks from now. We're just going to look back at the box score. And like, Dak Prescott's box score is not that impressive. But Brock Purdy, like, put up crazy numbers again for a fourth straight week.

But if you like watch those games back to back, like it was very clear they were like have different roles in their offense. I'm not even going to make the argument about who's more valuable. I guess I am because I'm technically saying that press cut is, but to their respective scheme, I mean, and what role they play in in it. But it just looks different. From the podcast that brought you wins are not a team stat comes MVP is not a value judgment.

Right. I don't know. But I mean, it's hard to appreciate it if you're not watching like every game, like every game with Dak because he is a quarterback who is, hard to appreciate. And then you throw on all these other layers. Like the fact that he's a Cowboys quarterback matters.

It shouldn't matter, but it does. And it changes the perception of him no matter what. It happened with Tony Romo. The way he plays where there's nothing that's like, it's not like Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes where you're, I guess it is more like that this year because he's doing so much out of structure. But usually it's more like, oh, I'm going to take the checkdown on time. It's like Philip Rivers type stuff.

which you're not going to get a lot of credit for that. You're not going to get a lot of time on SportsCenter for that. So I don't know. I think he's just a hard quarterback to appreciate unless you're really watching and really digging in every single week. And no one's going to do that unless you're a Cowboys fan. Because you're not, I mean, definitely so much of what he is great at happens before the snap.

And no one's, you're not paying attention. You're eating a chip. You're, you know, blow your nose. Scott Hansen's not showing that on Red Zone. It's true. But it is, I do think that especially with how he has embraced some of the out of structure playmaking and then also just the fact that they're really good. The roster's really good.

Their score, you know, they're beating one of the other NFC contenders who obviously they lost to earlier in the year, but they're winning this game by 20 points. I do think that this is his, this is a real chance because that result should make an impression. and I do think that it, you know, it's not hard to see some of the throws that he is making tonight, but just lately and go, wow, you don't see that in every game. You don't see that from every quarterback. You don't see that all the time. So we shouldn't take it for granted. It's a fun performance to watch.

What else are we missing here? We did have another, uh, uh, phantom Jason Kelsey hand mistaken. brotherly shove penalty, which I felt like we needed to point out. I don't know what to do about this. It's just like everyone's had a chance to figure it out and the refs can't figure it out. They're just never going to do it. I guess it's just part of it. Like the Eagles have this thing that only they can do at this high level and it's like a cheat code.

But that's the one drawback is that you're going to get off side, bad off sides calls every couple of months. I don't know. I think another thing that was interesting that I thought the Cowboys did this time around was put Michael Parsons over Lane Johnson and kind of going good on good and being like, all right, let's give our other pass rushers a break and not like they don't have to go up against Johnson, the best player on their line. And we know Parsons can win that matchup because he's that good.

And he kind of did win that matchup. I know that it was actually kind of even, but he got some pressures. He also got some flags thrown on him. But I thought he did a good job. So I thought that was interesting. Defensively, like it's always hard to judge a gameplay when it's so relying on turn. and fumbles specifically. I can't give them too much credit for the plan, but obviously the defense played well

and had a plan and executed it. Look, on the flip side, I think the Eagles defense is vulnerable in the ways that we know that they're vulnerable. I do think the Cowboys offense just did a really good job. I mean, they got, you know, they had nine passes defensed. They were forcing a lot of tight window throws, I think, over 30 percent of, of, of deck throwing attempts were into tight coverage. They pressured him 14 times.

I mean, it was not like, I think it's concerning because it is two weeks in a row that against an opponent who they've got to be thinking they might be seeing in the playoffs or the road to the Super Bowl would go through, there's this clear vulnerability that's being exploited. And that's definitely concerning. And then obviously you give up 33 points. This is a dominant, dominant win for Dallas. it's not a good result defensively.

I can't say that I think the Philly defense did like a horrible job in this game. I think in a lot of cases they just got beaten. I mean, I think the coverage was good. The throw was just better. And they are exposed in the middle of the field and they definitely got picked on. But it's just it's a little from column A, a little from column B. The Eagles still technically hold the tiebreaker, Dallas, Philadelphia, San Francisco. all 10 and three, all tied with that best record in the NFC.

So it's going to be a really interesting race down the stretch. I definitely think that San Francisco and Dallas are the two teams where it really feels like it's going to be one of those at the end. But obviously, I mean, we don't know because I still think that Philadelphia has a lot that they can do. There's a lot of different ways that we can win. But do you agree that it feels like we've sort of figured out who. the top two teams in the conference are.

That's what it feels like these last two weeks. And I thought like tonight Jalen Hertz played his first good game in a while, like in a couple of weeks. I thought he played really well. I don't think he had any outside of the fumble, obviously. I don't think he had anything to do with why they lost this game. And then we haven't even mentioned the player of the game yet. Brandon Aubrey, the greatest kicker of all time.

It was really awesome. And he got the post game interview. with Dak and Gilmore. I love it. Absolutely love it. I deserve it. I love all special teams love. First player ever to hit 60 and 59 yard field goals.

Like he's been like an ultimate, he's been like the weapon for them that I don't think like we any of us like considered. But he has been truly a weapon for them that has changed the dimensions of the field. We saw that on the 60 yarder where it looked like they had a penalty that was going to knock them out of field goal range or knock them out of being able to go forward on fourth. And then he hits a 60 yarder like it was nothing. And they have the confidence in him to make those. not taking anything away from from him because that was truly amazing and it's really, really valuable to them.

I feel like 60 yard field goals are becoming too common. Like that shouldn't, I'm not saying it happens every week. It certainly doesn't. But it feels like that every few weeks, someone's hitting something in the very high 50s or touching 60. And I just feel like that was something that Justin Tucker was supposed to do once every five years. What are you suggesting though? Yeah. The kickers are too good.

Narrow the goalposts. I mean, or no, not necessarily. I'm just saying like, are we reaching peak kicker? I'm not necessarily, it probably sounds like I'm complaining because it's just sort of my ammo. But I'm not suggesting that something needs to be done. I'm just observing. I agree.

I agree with you. It does feel like a 60-yard is more within reach. Like Jake Elliott, it's one in driving rain a couple weeks ago. And like it didn't even feel like it was that great of a kick after the fact. It was like, yeah, that's what kids do now. They make 60-yard field goals and driving rain. Food for thought. All right.

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Brought to you by Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Offensive offsides? No. Olive oil, yes. Blitzes? No. Beards?

Yes. Uber Eats is an easy win. So let's talk about the other winners and losers this week. Starting with your first, Stephen. My first winner is the 49ers who move into first place. They won in the late afternoon and they won during the Sunday night game. They move into first place in the NFC for the first time all year, I think. And it comes on the back of another just amazing Brock Purdy performance where he throws, I think he averaged over like 11 yards per attempt.

And on the season, he's almost averaging 10 yards per attempt. He goes nine for 27, 368 yards, two touchdowns, an interception that was kind of, it's kind of in a gray area between a miscommunication and maybe just a bad throw by him. And Brandon and I, you kind of weren't on the same page. But outside of that, like, he didn't have to do too much as usual. He made a couple plays that he did have to make when the Seahawks got pressure. But this was mostly about Christian McCaffrey and Debo Samuel. Every time they touched the ball, it felt like they could score.

It wasn't like a great down-to-down consistency game for the 49ers, but it was about explosives. And that's what this game came down to ultimately. It was in the first half, it was Seattle got an explosive, then San Francisco got one. And you kind of felt that Seattle was going to run out of steam. And that's exactly what happened in the second half. Drew Locke, who started for Gino Smith, who was out with an injury, tried to warm up, couldn't go.

I thought Locke played well. Shane Waldron called a good game for him early on. But then the dam just broke and he had to throw from behind. And he made mistakes. Right. So John Schneider said pregame, I guess, that they sat Gino. so that the injury wouldn't get any worse, which sort of pointed to the idea,

I think that they want him to be able to go against Philly next Monday. Obviously, it would have been nice if he could have been available for this game. But the Seahawks are starting to be in a little bit of a, in a pretty tough spot here. They've had the first four-game losing streak of the Pete Carroll era in Seattle. And obviously going into a hard game against an Eagles team that needs a win. How are you feeling about this defense? Because obviously the 49ers are a really tough opponent.

And that team can be explosive against anybody. But I do. And obviously they're not doing what they want to be doing quite on offense because of the injuries because of the quarterback situation. I just worry about the Seahawks team in the sense that I look at them and I go, they can't really run the ball. And the defense just gave up over 500 yards. And they're a little bit too spongy there, I imagine, for Pete Carroll's liking. And I just wonder if he's getting a little bit frustrated with this not being sort of his type of team. Yeah, I mean, you could say what you want about his philosophy and whether it's outdated or not.

But the team is built with the idea of it being a team founded on the run game and good defense. and they can't do either right now. So this is just not going to work like this. Like you can't run a run heavy play action type of offense, when you can't run the ball. It just makes it hard when you're in second and long all the time. And their problems just compound as they get later into a series, like on second and long and third and long,

that's when you see the offensive line injuries kind of take their toll and just how bad the offensive line has been, frankly, all season long. It's been really hard to kind of coach around, kind of to play quarterback around, even to run routes, like it just speeds everything up for everybody. Even the receivers have to make their decisions even quicker because the line is giving a pressure. And I think that those problems just kind of, there's just like a through line throughout

the whole team. Like I think the offensive problems bleed over to the defensive side. We saw the defense playing really well when the offense was going well early on in the year. And they've kind of sunk together, I feel like. And I don't think that's coincidence. But it's, it's. It's hard to see the path forward for this team with Pete Carroll leading it.

I'm not saying they should fire him or move on. I think he's a very good coach. But there comes a time when it's just like we need a new start. And I think they're really getting close to that. And that's coming from someone who really likes Pete Carroll as a coach and really likes Geno Smith as a quarterback. It'll be interesting to see what they kind of the direction of that team. Because I mean, they, they aced the thing with Gino, obviously with the injury.

It's not ideal right now. but they've made some really good decisions. They've drafted really well lately. But, you know, you talk about that, the identity that they've had. And, of course, that has to change eventually. But this, I guess, was the 15th game under Pete Carroll, where they allowed over 500 yards defensively. 10 of those 15 have come since 2020. So they just have not been, you know, for better or worse,

they have not been winning games in the same way that they always did during the heyday. And I do think that that is what Pete Carroll wants to do. So it's just, it's, it's an interesting thing to think about going forward. You know, their season's not over. But they did get mathematically eliminated from the AFC West with this loss. I think, you know, there's no shame in losing the 49ers with Drew Locke. They were a heavy underdog. but those games against the Rams, I think they've got to be really, really regretting just because those were more winnable.

And it does seem like this season is slipping through their grasp a little bit. Although, you know, of course, time and the game against the Eagles would be interesting, especially if Gino's able to play. All right, can I give you a winner? Yeah, let's hear it. A team whose playoff hopes are still alive. the Buffalo Bills, who won 20 to 17 against Kansas City in a game that I'm pretty sure I feel very confident saying is going to occupy the highest number of sports TV minutes tomorrow because of the officiating controversy with Cadarious Tony and the calling back of genuinely one of the

coolest plays of the season. and Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes being very upset at that. But just, and we should talk about it, but just to sit on the bill's side of this, they're seven and six. They're one of six different AFC teams that are seven and six. And they're right back in the thick of the playoff hunt, which I'm glad to be able to say because this was not, this was not a perfect game for either team.

This was not a shootout. Josh Allen could have been better. The bill's offense could have been better. But I still, I watch this team and I go, this team should be in the playoffs. They just really should be in the playoffs. So though this is not to say anything about the exact way in which it happened. I was glad to see the bills get a win just because I think that they're a more interesting team

than some of those other AFC squad. that are in that glut of just above 500 teams. And this was a fun game. It was an interesting game. It was not without drama. I'm like skirting around it. I feel like we have to talk about the Tony thing. What did you think?

It was the right call. Like, there should be no controversy here. He was clearly off sides. Like, I don't understand why there's an argument about this. And either way, if they didn't call it or they did call it, we were going to get a controversy because if they didn't call it, I guarantee you Bill's fans would be posting this screenshot complaining about the missed call that the reps didn't make on the key play of the game.

But like Patrick Mahomes afterwards, a little dramatic, buddy. And I support Patrick Mahomes in most things. I think he's the best player I've ever seen. But, I mean, after the game, one of his complaints was that it took like a play away from Travis Kelsey's Hall of Fame resume, I guess. He said that's a Hall of Fame tight end who made a Hall of Fame play that won't be shown because we threw a flag. Like, oh, right, come on now, buddy.

It's not that big of a deal. He was off sides. Like, ultimately, it's on Cadarious Tony, right? Because you always see the receivers kind of point to the line judge. It'd be like, at my odd. Yeah. The guy tells him. And Cadarius Tony didn't do that from what I've seen.

He didn't do that. And there was a little bit of revisionist history, it seemed like, where, you and Andy Reid. I mean, look, I found it interesting how fired up Mahomes got, not because it's not, I mean, you know, it's upsetting to lose in that way. And there's a lot of times when that call is going to go in a different way. So I get it on one level. But like you said, he's usually pretty chill. And we don't see that type of emotion from him. And it made me wonder if things had been building a little bit just with the frustrations of the receiving group. And, how the season has gone and this last stretch, if that had been sort of wearing and wearing and wearing, and then you hit a point where it kind of explodes over. I did think the arguments were very, were a little bizarre. The Andy Reid argument that usually they tell me didn't really work for me.

The other thing that, I mean, this is embarrassing for the National Football League is, always a I always think you want to be careful about unholstering that one. A coach in this game did a real live drill tweet or was revealed to have done a real live drill tweet this week. So like I'm not actually sure that that Cadarius Tony's foot being a little bit over the line was that embarrassing. No. But I love what everyone gets excited. So I mean, it's top of your chiefs fan. But he was off sides. the real thing to me, we need a laser. We need some sort of, it's just really silly that we're still doing this.

Or like little lines that, I don't know, just figure it out. It is just absurd that we spend so much time making these, like worrying about these high stakes decisions that we have the technology to just not have to worry about. And yet it is a huge deal in this like multi-billion dollar. organization week after week. Like, why can't there just be a little laser pointer that establishes the line of scrimmage or the line to gain or whatever on the field? I don't think that was the issue here. It wasn't like an issue of whether he was off sides or not.

That's like what's like making. Well, but in the sense of like him not knowing where it is. That's the thing. Like it's ultimately just on Cadarius Tony. We don't even have to like think of all these other things. There's no other receiver lines up off sides like that, really. That's a very good point that it's not exactly an epidemic. But the whole process of, and he did not do this, but generally speaking, a receiver looking to the line judge and being like, hey man, am I in a good spot?

Like, is this cool with you? And then the ref being like, yeah, bro, like, you're good. Your toes on the right grass. And then that may be not happening. and the coach getting upset about it's just all really analog. And it doesn't have to be that way. You could use a laser. But it did.

I think your point is good about Patrick Holmes. It felt like a like a basketball coach getting a technical on purpose because his team like needs to be fired up. And he's not going to be able to yell at his receivers for the mistakes they make. And there were more like miscommunications. I thought Patrick Mowles played well outside of the turnover. But like I thought he played well for. the most part. I thought Josh Allen played well for the most part outside of the turnover.

But that's like basically what we've been saying about these quarterbacks all year long. It was just more of the same to me. Like these two quarterbacks just doing whatever they can to keep their offenses afloat. And that's going to come with mistakes. And we saw it on both sides of the ball. And ultimately like the bills were able to overcome it. But I still have, even though the standings are better, they look they're more in their favor now than they were two weeks ago or whenever they fired Ken Dorsey. But you still have all of the. the same concerns about this this team that you had then because they often still kind of looks disjoint it in the ways that it looks disjointed under the old O.C. Yeah. And I think this is an

interesting game because they actually did the bills ran the ball a little bit. And James Cook was able to do a lot in the passing game, but also got some carries and was able to move the ball on the ground at least a little bit. And they had a little bit of that balance going, which You know, it's not, I don't as something that an offense needs, but often with the bills, it's been something that they've tried to work towards. It didn't necessarily seem like it kept them in rhythm any better than they normally are. It was just sort of

Josh Allen will eventually make something happen and also make a few mistakes, but they had enough. I thought they played pretty well defensively. I mean, the chiefs certainly helped them out with some of the mistakes in, in the receiver group. But that defense is so depleted. And I think they had a fairly smart game plan for most of the game. Then they started blitzing him more, which I didn't really understand why they, like, we've all been around long enough to know that that's just not a good idea and that's not what you do.

But they got away with it well enough. But I still, I'm happy that the result was what it was because Buffalo now has a 40% chance of the playoffs. And I think that would be, that's the best possible outcome. And Kansas City, they're down to a single game lead in the division over Denver, which is just like, how did we get here? But they've still got. I'll tell you how they got here.

I think they'll figure it out. Coach of the year campaign from Sean Payton's how we got here. But like they played next week. And that, that game is for first place in the division, which is just an amazing development. If the Chiefs end up getting swept by the Broncos? John Payton actually might win coach of the year. They beat the Broncos a couple of weeks ago. It's on the table that the Broncos win this game.

It's on the table that Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs have to be a wildcard team. Now, they're scheduled the rest of the way is pretty easy. So I think they're going to avoid that fate. But I'm just saying it's on the table. And that's just an indictment of where this team is right now. But I agree with you. I think Buffalo's. defense played really well.

And I think Sean McDermott does deserve credit for that. You do have to hand it to him in that regard. And that's my main takeaway from this game. But I did think like the, you're still seeing the emergence. Hold on. Can we just talk about how absurd that broadcast was? Oh, yeah. The beginning of it when they were like vouching for Sean McDermott's character.

Is that what do you mean? It's not like, I don't need you to vouch for his character. I need you to vouch for his like sanity basically. It's not like, I don't believe that that was a deeply harmful or hateful or like even mean. It's just really weird. It's just a really weird thing to say. Explain to me how that came out of someone's mouth. That's what I'm interested in learning.

It's funny. It's more than anything. Like I, and Josh Allen after the game, he was like, say what you want about his coaching style. And yeah, maybe I make mistakes like every now and then. But like, what I will say is Sean McDermott's a great guy. And I was like, it's the same reaction you just had. Like, no one was saying he wasn't because he made a 9-11 speech. Like, we were just laughing at the fact that he made a 9-11 speech and thought that would be a good idea.

It's just like, it's not, we need to be able to acknowledge that we are through the looking glass. Yes. With this story. And it's not happening when it's like, Sean McDermott really cares about these guys. and he knew he'd done wrong. Like, that's, that's fine. That's, he should do that.

And he should have apologized and I'm glad he didn't, whatever. But like, that's not the plane that the story exists on. No. It exists on a plane of just like, how, how did this happen? I don't even need an apology. I just need an explanation. Did you see the Bill's Twitter account tweeted out, like, the locker room post? game speech to the team and like one of the players was like, we got your back coach.

Like you got his back from what? Jokes about the speech. This is like truly, I mean, the the sports mindset of anything can be adversity. This is a new. This is a new one. This is like, again, you got to hand it to them. You do. Anyway, you want to, you want to, this is going to be the weirdest podcast transition of all

time, but a loser may have? Yeah, I'm going to give it to the Lions, and I'm going to give it to, I'm going to say Jared Goff's the loser in this one, because the Lions did run the ball well. And like usually when we talk about this offense, it's based on the idea of if they can run the ball, everything else is going to work. And this was one of those few games where they both, they had two running backs. Gibbs and Montgomery both average over six yards per carry. Like, that's an amazing number.

But Jared Goff, you just see it at time and time and again. When ever he has to play in the cold weather, it really affects his game. And in this game, it was so obvious that he needed like an extra beat or two to kind of, like, load up on throws because he just couldn't throw the ball well. And he had to wear gloves in this game, which I think was a reaction to the Baltimore game. The last time we saw him playing bad weather where he couldn't really grip the ball. This time he had gloves and it didn't help at all. And when you play in the NFC North, I just think that's a big deal. And we-

Did he have bad circulation? I don't know what it is. It's the small hands because that was the prejaff thing with him. He had the small hands and now we're seeing it play out. Do you really think that's what it is? It's like a grip strength thing when it's when everything's different, colder and the ball's harder. I feel like that's the most obvious explanation.

I mean, maybe there is some other thing that's like contributed to it. Like he's not, he is from California. Maybe it's just playing in that type of weather. He's just not used to it. But I don't know. I think it's the hand thing. But on the other side of the ball, the bears who are all of a sudden back in the playoff race,

They're only like a game and a half back from the final spot in the NFC. And then complicating things, it's another good game for Justin Fields. And another good game where he has like, I would say like five or six plays where he looks like a top 10 quarterback talent-wise. But then he has another 10 plays where he looks like a bottom five quarterback talent-wise. And in this game, it was boom or bust with him. He averaged 0.2 EPA per dropback, which is really good. But with a 37% success rate. So that just speaks to, I think he's down to town.

He just, he just isn't there yet. He's just like 10% away. If you can unlock that last 10%, I think he can be a good quarterback. It's in him. I just don't know if it's going to happen in time to convince the bears that he can do it in Chicago. I don't think it should. Like, I think that's for the best if it doesn't. Because first of all, what Justin Fields has shown lately is genuinely impressive.

But if they end up with the number one overall pick, a draft with two quarterbacks who people are really, really excited about. That answer to me is fairly obvious. Justin Fields also, especially with how he's playing now, he will get them something in a trade. He can be really, really useful either as someone who maybe competes to be a starter somewhere or as a pretty highly coveted backup, I would think, especially for a team with a mobile quarterback. he could net them a good pick at this point. And obviously, you know, it doesn't feel good to take a quarterback high

and sort of admit that it's time to move on. But I think the best outcome for literally everybody, including Justin Fields, is this is a nice bonus. It makes everyone feel really good about what's happening. Maybe they do squeak into the playoffs, right? Like, and not probably in real life is what would make things very complicated because that's the type of thing that does get owners involved and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it seemed like earlier in the year, everyone had reached the point where it was sort of decided that this was going to be the end.

And I think it probably makes the most sense if that stays, if that conversation is not revisited, especially just considering the draft pick that should be coming to them. But it's interesting to see him play to play this well. I do think the Lions, that defense, I think, has real trouble against mobile quarterbacks. Yeah. They just, they've really struggled with it every time they've faced a team, you know, whether it's, it's Fields or Lamar. The defense has holes in general, but I think those are the matchups where I really, really worry about them. The bears might have a chance at squeaking into the playoffs, maybe if everything breaks right, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. here's my question.

There's like no chance the Packers end up winning this division, is there? I think there is. They're the best team in the division right now. Like this, that's not even, you can't even argue that fact. We saw them what they did to this Lions team on Thanksgiving in Detroit. And the way they're playing, the way they played last week against Kansas City, I don't think there's an argument whatsoever who the best team is. It's just a matter of time.

And I think schedule-wise, Green Bay has an advantage. They don't play the Cowboys in Dallas. So they have a chance to catch up. with them. I have a question for you. Okay. And this would have been a crazy sounding question, like even a month ago. I think Chicago, like, I'd rather have their immediate future right now than Detroit, especially at the quarterback position where I think things are complicated for Chicago,

but in a good way where it's like either way you go, you have a good answer. In Detroit, I don't know how you pay Jared Gough after what we've seen over the last couple of weeks if it continues like this. So, yeah, I hear you. I think, I'm not saying you're doing this, but I think here's the thing. We overvalue draft picks. And I know I just made this argument about like,

they're going to have the number one overall pick and just let it be a done deal with Fields because you don't want to not take advantage of that. And I do think that's true. There's some world in which Caleb Williams and Drake May are not good NFL quarterbacks. And like, that's just what happens sometimes. And I think I'm trying to weigh the risk of sometimes the draft pick just doesn't work out versus

the lion's roster as a whole is more complete and in a better in a better place than the Bears is right now. So if they chose not to pay golf and obviously, you know, they're nine and four. right now unless they made some huge trade. The draft is not where they're going to be going after a starting caliber quarterback. What do you feel better about, like, taking the chances on the veteran market, finding sort of a bridge guy or someone in the Jimmy Garoppelow, Derek Carr zone versus. Yeah, I mean, maybe you would rather be. It's close.

That's what I'll give you is that it's. close. Right. And like a month ago, it would not have been close. We wouldn't even have had the discussion. I mean, there is a world where Caleb Williams and Drake May, like, neither of them are good. But there's also a world in which Jared Goff is Jared Goff. And guess what? We live on that world. And the lions live on that world. And that's not going to change. And it's not like the only thing Chicago has going for it is the draft capital. The rest of the roster, I think, he's playing a lot better. The defense has just been lights out, especially since the Montez Sweat trade, which, like, I thought it was a bad trade at the time,

but so far the results suggest otherwise. And I think, like, Matt Everflus has probably coached himself into another year. He's not the person who drafted Justin Fields. He was hired before he was there. So, like, I don't think you can even place that on him that they didn't develop him. We've seen two coaching staffs not develop him. So I don't know. If I'm Chicago, like, I'm keeping my coach.

I not only have these two draft picks at the top of the draft, the top of the first round, like you said, I think if they trade Fields, they can get a second round pick for him. Like we saw Sam Darnold get a second round pick for the Jets. And Sam Darnold never looked as, like, explosive as Justin Fields. Justin Fields might be like the second fastest player in the NFL behind Tyree Kill. If you go pound for pound, like considering how big he is, he might be the fastest person in the NFL. He's definitely up there for fastest quarterback beyond Lamar Jackson.

But Lamar Jackson isn't as big as Justin Fields is. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, if you're just in Detroit is, is probably. going to lose Ben Johnson. So if you make a switch at quarterback or no matter who's at quarterback, you're looking at a world in which you might take a little bit of a hit in terms of the offensive coaching staff.

It's not a crazy question. The defense in Chicago, it's really interesting because I think a lot of the criticism that I've certainly had for the moves that they've made and this goes back to the offseason. then it's really from a value perspective. It's, okay, you give all that money to middle linebackers. Like, is this really great team building philosophy? I think that's a reasonable question. It's still one that I think is going to influence them down the road.

Yeah. It doesn't matter when they're playing the game. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter right now. Right. It's, it's those players are contributing. It doesn't matter if they gave up a little too much in the, in the sweat deal. It doesn't matter if.

if they're not totally sure what the long-term future of that is. It's the talent level, and it's still not that high, right? Like, this is still not a roster that you look at and go, oh, great roster. But it's so much better than it was. And they're just so much more stable. The DJ Moore trade is a big win for them, especially, like, I don't think you needed Carolina to have the season they're having for that to be considered a big trade. But, like, that just confirms with.

how DJ Moore has played and like the boost he's given this offense where they have a real receiver now and how much that just changes for everyone on the offense, the running backs, the run game and Justin Fields specifically, it's been worth that deal. And like you said, the Lions rostered like maybe on paper it is in a better spot, but like these teams have played each other twice over the last month. The Lions needed 17 points over the last three minutes to avoid getting swept. So like the Bears are playing better football and they have been for the last month. Yeah.

It's a tough look in Detroit. It's like, I felt good about that team. I thought, like, I was going to be wrong about them because all the off season, I was kind of questioning them. After the first month, they looked like a really good football team. I thought Jared Goff is playing really good football, but it's falling apart in the ways where you kind of worried it would fall apart with Jared golf kind of turning into a pumpkin over the last month when it got cold.

And then Aaron Glenn's defense kind of falling apart. And I think part of that is a talent issue. There's still nine and four. But it's going to. to be interesting because so they've got um they've they've got the broncos up next uh next saturday night and then it's vikings cowboys vikings again to close out the season and then the packers have giants bucks panthers vikings and then the bears um green bay is definitely playing better football and that seems like an easier, that's an easier schedule down the stretch.

It's a lot to make up, but it's possible. It'll be interesting. It could happen. Tommy DeVito, Baker Mayfield, Bryce Young, and Josh Dobbs. I don't, I guess not Josh Dobbs. I guess Nick Mollins after Josh Dobbs got bench. So I mean, it could happen. They had the better quarterback.

Really interesting. All right. Next loser for me. The Jaguars lost 31. to 27 to the Browns. They did get Trevor Lawrence playing in this game, which was an open question, but still missed a chance to pick up a game against Houston and sort of bolster that division lead on a day when the Texans lost.

They just can't. It's sort of always something with this offense. And I think today, the thing that you noticed most of all was that they're really missing Christian Kirk. And it's not totally clear when he's going to come back. It's going to be at least three more games. It's possible he won't be back. But the prognosis there hasn't been totally clear.

But Trevor Lawrence through three interceptions and two of them were on plays where he and Calvin Ridley just were not on the same page. So I think the fact that you could really see that absence coming through, to me, it looked like that's what was going on more so than he was dealing with feeling hurt. but sometimes that stuff is hard to tell. So I don't want to be too rough on a performance for a guy who we thought a week ago might be out for a substantial period of time. It's more just that it's unfortunate that they lost this game in terms of putting some distance between themselves in Houston and the division. But they still, they're still the leader.

And then Cleveland, I mean, Joe Flacco is just like, airing it out. And I have to admit that I think this team is really fun to watch. And I don't know what that says about me. I don't feel good about it. I don't feel comfortable with it. But I was just sitting there watching all of these deep throws. Flacco is now the first Browns quarterback since 1980 to throw three touchdowns of 30 yards or more.

And it's just like, all right. I'll take it. it's an amusing brand of football they've got going on. And they won another game, beat another AFC playoff team. So things are going well in Cleveland. I can't believe that after all the twists and turns of this season, this is the time that I am saying that. And that I am saying it in a situation where now I know Kevin Stavansky said that

that Flacco was going to be their starter going forward. But I also think they're still doing the practice squad thing with him where he goes, where he bounces back and forth between the roster, which technically means that any team in the NFL could just sign him, could just take him away. And I don't know if they will maybe, maybe change that. But if I mean, why, like, why didn't the, I mean, I guess the Bengals are out of it. But like, the Steelers, you're going to just like let.

Right. Like any of these teams, like the bear should do it before next week. Make them play a worse quarterback. I can't believe I'm saying this, but like think about how many different teams Joe Flacco could have intervened and save their season this year. It's shocking. I don't know if it's possible I'm missing some sort of weird procedural rule here. And if I am, I'm sorry. But my understanding is that at least last week, any team in the NFL, even though it was,

was very clear that based on Flacco's performance last week that he was going to start this week again and definitely gave them the best chance to win, he just sat there on the practice squad and anyone could have claimed him. The Vikings should claim him. If he goes back on the practice squad. There are a lot of teams. Yeah. Because he did play well and he was like making plays under pressure.

He's making plays on key down, on conversion downs. It wasn't like he had this. I mean, I don't want to over exaggerate his performance. They did have a lot of like shot plays, a lot of play action plays. where it was schemed up for him. But he threw the ball well. And there are not a lot of quarterbacks playing right now. I shouldn't say that, but there are a lot of quarterbacks playing right now who don't

throw the ball well consistently. Like up and down, Easton stick played a lot of football today. And he's got to probably play for the next month. He's just, he plays how you want like, he plays old man football in a good way where he's just like he doesn't care that there's a pass rusher in his face. he's just going to stand there and air it out and maybe it's a penalty. Maybe it's a 30-yard reception. Maybe it's the worst interception you've ever seen in your entire life.

He doesn't care. It doesn't matter. The game is just going to happen around him. He's going to act independently and whatever happens around him like that dictates the success of the play. He's just bivin. He's just totally bivin. It's out there. It's a real coup they've pulled off.

I don't want to go too heavy on the Jags just because I do think that some of that was just Trevor coming back from the injury. Big picture, it's obviously better that he is healthy enough to not have missed this game than the alternative. So in the grand scheme of things, you know, they could be a bigger loser than they are, even though they are among the losers today. I think the one concern you do have is that this Brown's defense, while it has been. very good all year. It's kind of run into trouble when it's gone up against like well designed offenses.

And I don't think the, the Jaguars passed that test today. And like that's been a concern with them all year is like, why isn't this offense performing like we expected it to? And it usually has to do with his,

Trevor's connection with these receivers, whether it's them like keeping their feet in bounds earlier in the year. And now we have these miscommunications, but it just, it's been an issue all year long. And now that like Christian Kirk, he didn't play today,

I feel like it just highlighted the issue more. And I don't know who to blame on that. I don't know if it's on the receivers. Maybe like Ridley's not the player that he was before the suspension. Maybe it's on Press Taylor. Maybe it's on Doug Peterson. Maybe it's on Trevor Lawrence. But like something's clearly wrong and something's clearly missing with this passing game.

And it's been the case all year long. I don't think it like is an issue that just popped up on Sunday. There's not just one problem with it. I do think that some of it, I have questions about coaching. And obviously with Ridley, like he'd just been, he hadn't been playing in so long that it's different. But some of the stuff that's tripping them up is running the wrong direction or not understanding what choice somebody's making on an option route or just these communication things where it's not like a diminished physical ability problem. Right. It's not like, here's this thing that this guy used to be able to do and he can't do it anymore.

or the quarterback is making bad throws in this way and it's not maximizing receiver skill set or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's really communication, the connection between a quarterback and a receiver. Some of that is just developed over time. I do wonder if you look a little bit to coaching, just in terms of it as ultimately a staff's job to get guys on the same page. but it's a little of a bunch of things, it seems like. And it's always hard to diagnose because it's just those, it's just something's always going wrong and they're not perfectly in sync. And it's not like they can't do it.

They just don't always do it. It kind of reminds me of like the Cowboys problems on offense in past years where it's like, clearly like all of the pieces here are good and they're the right pieces. And when it works, it really works really well. And we get all excited about it. But when it doesn't work, we have like these moments where we're like, oh, it's never going to work actually. And like this, they need to start over.

They need to make major changes. Maybe maybe the solution is just firing press Taylor and letting Doug Peterson call the place, work for Dallas. I wish that I wish Doug was calling place. I just wish we, I wish we knew. Like I wish we could A, B that because I don't want to be unfair and say that it's all press Taylor. And I think a lot of that is is colored by the experience.

he had in Philly or that Philly had with him and feeling like Doug really wanted him to get, wanted him to get that experience and then it wasn't the best thing for the team. I wish we had something to compare it to, but it does, doesn't feel like the play calling ever gets in a true rhythm. And it does seem like some of the perky jerkiness of it boils down to that. But, you know, it's not as though Doug Peterson isn't standing there on the sideline. and if he really had a problem with something that was happening, like you're the head coach.

You can put a stop to it. So again, I'm hesitant to totally be like, this is Press Taylor's problem. Maybe they need a bad name, like a bad nickname for the West Coast offense. And they need to scrap that name. And then after that,

they'll have their rebound. That's the key. I love it. All right, next winner? Yeah, my next winner is the Cincinnati Bengals, another team that we all let's the dead after Joe Burroughs injury. But all of a sudden, they're back in the playoff race.

They're actually the last spot out of the AFC playoffs after beating the Colts today. And they are behind the Colts. The Colts somehow, the Colts have a tiebreaker because there are a bunch of teams at 7 and 6. And the Steelers are one of them. And they obviously beat the Bengals. But I think they're a winner because they have a backup quarterback who can actually play. And that's a very big luxury in today's NFL, as we've seen in Cleveland. But Jake Browning, I don't want to like start like, oh, if Jake Browning can do this,

and we have to question what Joe Burroughs done. I don't think it's any, the conversation is nowhere near that because Jake Browning's obviously playing a different role in this offense. It's a little more schemy, I would say. Like they're doing screen passes. They're going under center. They're running the ball. It's less like, oh, let's put it all on the quarterback and the dropback passing game.

And it makes you wonder why they don't do that for Joe Burrow. It could be a quarterback preference thing. It could be Zach Taylor just thinking Joe Burrow doesn't need those schematic guardrails. But the offense is operating at a level. that we haven't seen it operate at even with Joe Burrow because it's kind of looked different. It hasn't been a full team effort. And it was the first time in a while that I can remember that the Bengals didn't give up a sack. I think that's a testament.

No sacks. And that's always been the thing with this offensive line in this passing game is giving up the sacks. Didn't happen. I think that's a testament to how this game was called and how they protected Jake Brown. And he only had 28 dropbacks in this game. He did leave at one point with Framps in his thumb. The first time I've ever heard someone get cramps in their thumb, but apparently he didn't hydrate.

He said he wasn't hydrated enough. He said he was very embarrassed to leave the game with a thumb cramping up. But that was the, he only left for like a series and a half and he only dropped back 28 times. And it was a game that was like tightly contested throughout. So I thought it was well managed by their coaching staff. They definitely protected him with the screens. And, you know, I think that Indianapolis pass.

rush is, is they can, they're not like great, but they can make some stuff happen. And I think that's a group that the Bengals, you could see them having trouble with. And they definitely did more to mitigate that than often I think they do with Burrow. On the flip side of that, I mean, they did run some of the shotgun stuff in their offense with Jake Browning. Yeah, I, yeah, they did. And just hats off to the young man, I suppose. The average over 11 yards per cent. I don't know that I think they should run more of it, but they did it.

And he was fine. And he scored 30 or more points for two weeks in a row. Second straight game. So I feel like we can't talk too much about the playoff stuff because literally every team in the AFC, other than the Patriots is in the playoff race. But it's, it's, they really were left for dead. And it's definitely one of the surprises that, uh, Jake Browning can maybe get it done in,

and the time being. All right. I can't believe we've waited this long to talk with the Ravens, but they are my next winner. Uh, they beat the Rams in overtime, 37 to 31. Um, on a 76 yard punt return. touchdown after both teams punted on their first possession and overtime.

For now, Baltimore is the number one seed in the AFC, although if Miami wins tomorrow, they could take that back. But this was, I thought, one of the most, like, well quarterbacked games, definitely this week, but that I've seen in a while. I mean, it was just Lamar and Stafford going back and forth. And it wasn't, I mean, the Ravens offense was a little weird. They were not running the ball very much. And they were relying on a lot of explosive plays.

But just in terms of the stuff that both quarterbacks were doing in this game, it was just a pleasure to watch. And surprising, but sort of funny that the game ended how it did just because you felt like it was going to end with either Lamar or Stafford. doing something amazing, making some amazing throw. And then obviously that wasn't what, what ended it. Stafford said something at the podium about how he and McVeigh were having communication issues with the headset, both at the end of regulation. And I think in overtime on the overtime drive. So I don't quite know how much that affected them. But the explosive plays from Baltimore were really what did it. They had their first two touchdowns come maybe

against coverage bus from L.A. and it seemed like defensively, the Rams were having some problems just with coordination communication there. But it's, we talked so much about the case that Dak Prescott is making for MVP. I don't know that this was quite, this wasn't necessarily Lamar's best performance, but it was a pretty good one. And it was a fun one to watch in a game where both quarterbacks were playing really good football. Yeah, this is one of those games where, like, you don't even need to have takes based on this game. It was just like enjoy the football. And it feels like we haven't gotten a lot of these games

where we have these two quarterbacks like dueling. Like off the top of my head, maybe like Herbert 2 a week one. I can't recall another one. I don't know, maybe Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts late in that second half, but Hertz was so bad in the first half. So I don't even know if that counts. But it wasn't just like the quarterbacks had big games.

It was like how they were producing it. Like this was the first time we really seen the Baltimore defense. defense struggle. And I don't think this was like a red flag for me or like a blueprint game for me. I thought it was Shaw McVeigh one calling a fantastic game. I thought this has been a great season for Shaw McVeigh, just proving like I'm a good coach no matter what. Just give me a group of players. I'm going to turn out a good team no matter what. But I thought it was Matthew Stafford, Pukunakua, Cooper Cup, just going insane, just blacking out and just making play after play after play, just like these tough dropback passes, pressure in his face,

throwing outside the numbers, just an amazing game from a quarterbacking perspective. And then Lamar on the other end, just kind of making plays too. There were a couple of balls where I thought like the ball placement, he kind of turned his receiver around on some deep balls where they were wide open. But other than that, just another masterful game for him, just controlling the game. We've talked about that so much this year where he always seems in control of the offense in ways where you never really felt like that under Greg Roman. And I think part of that is just giving him more ownership at the line.

And you saw that today and you've seen it throughout the year this year. Odell had such a good game, four catches for 97 yards. I think he was the, he caught on the last scoring drive and regulation for Baltimore, I think is when this was. they got into like a third and long, like third and 17 or something. And they had they had three receivers on one side. And it was just you could see how much space there was. And again, some of that was a little bit interchangeable with the fact that the secondary in LA is young and they made some mistakes and they got confused and turned around on some stuff.

But you really saw this offense, this Ravens offense in action. and just what it's supposed to look like. And it's even like on a day when it wasn't like everything was perfect, it was just they're in third and 17. They're in this. And it's always been a misdomer, but they're in this position where it's like, okay, Lamar's got to win this game through the air and you see it.

You just see how it's supposed to work. And everybody was making the right play is on the other side of the ball. it was just as impressive. I just a pleasure, a pleasure to watch this football game. Yeah. And I thought like Odell Beckham, after that Bengals game a couple of weeks ago, he had talked about how it was the first time he really felt healthy all year long. And he talked about how the Ravens let him rest during the week,

let him rest, sit out of games because they knew they could win without him. And then this week, he even sat out a practice this week, kind of as a veteran rest day. And you're seeing it pay off. And like you're like you said, You're seeing like old flashes of Odell. It's a couple weeks ago he had a play where he kind of caught a slant and then took it off field and then scored a touchdown.

That was like classic Odell. And then today you saw the double move where he got open where he hits just a tight double move. No, no fat on the route whatsoever. Classic Odell, it really feels like that's another weapon they're unlocking. And like if you can combine that with Lamar Jackson and just the constraints he puts on

a defense, I think this offense has another gear can hit over the next month. They're an interesting, It's an interesting case study, because we talk about coaching all the time and sort of what goes right and what goes wrong. I thought Harbaugh had a pretty bad in-game management game. I mean, he challenged a touchdown and lost a challenge on a play that was going to be reviewed automatically and has been in the rules. That's how they deal with that for like a decade at this point, which was just, I mean, we've all, we've all, we've all. made an oopsie, but that was quite a spectacular one. Some weird fourth down decisions.

Just not an awesome in-game management game for him. But you do see stuff like that and you think about how the whole picture fits together with understanding a player, understanding their physical limitations and needs, understanding who can handle getting a veteran rest day, how that affects everyone in the locker room. And it does seem like. like, I mean, I still go back to how bad things had gotten with Lamar in the off season and where they are now. And I think that's probably first and foremost a credit to the players, a credit to Odell, a credit to Lamar, the people who are doing that and understanding what they need.

But something about something organizationally, it does feel like they have another level that they can hit. but it's going reasonably well. So I was ready to kind of come on here and rip Harbaugh a little bit for making some bad calls. But I do think holistically there's a lot that's going right there. Yeah. Did you see after the game he kind of made an excuse for why he did the challenge? He said he wanted a time out there anyway. So he just like decided.

It made no sense whatsoever. So he just did something other than call a timeout. Yeah, he just doubled out on it after that. It was actually a very good decision. I love to lie. I love to make things up. But I'm looking at the NFC standings, and this is totally like non-sequitur, but can I tell you two teams that have a better point differential

than the Philadelphia Eagles right now? Of course. The Minnesota Vikings, led by Josh Barnes, and the New Orleans Saints. I think, like, maybe we need to revisit that Eagles conversation. at earlier because that's very concerning. But I was just, I was just looking at that because the Rams, I think they're going to make the playoffs.

They're at plus an item point differential. They're kind of climbing up the ranks in the NFC. They're slowly but surely getting back in the race. But if they make the playoffs, like this offense, the way it's playing, the passing game, the way it works in conjunction with the run game, like Shaw McVeigh has found a formula right now that kind of has them playing not at the level they were at when they won the Super Bowl offensively, but like not too far behind that, like 15% less of that. And I think that's a very dangerous team in this season where we're not seeing a lot of offenses clicking.

And we're not seeing a lot of offenses trending in the right direction. But like clearly the Rams are. The point differentials are so funny. The cowboys are plus 188 and then the 49ers are plus 175. And then the Ravens are plus 143. The dolphins are still up there. And then it is the bills. Then the chiefs are like half of the bills.

and then it goes all the way to the lions who are plus 26. And then it's just like the rest of the league is between. So all but one, two, three, four, five, six teams are between plus 26 and minus 39. Everyone is just beating up on each other. The season is a mess. It is a complete mess of a season. Also, by the way, do you know what the Chargers point differential is? No. It's zero. It's zero. Yeah. I knew I knew it was going to be zero.

What it does that mean it didn't exist. That would probably. Yeah. Can we can we talk about the chargers? They're my next loser. And I just want to get this out of the way. I don't have much to say about this game. Except for the fact that Justin Herbert season is probably, it might be over. He fractured a finger on his throwing hand left in the second quarter. Nothing was going right before he left. They could not protect him. He'd already been sacked four times when that happened. And hit another six times. Like at this point. It's more of what we've seen the last couple of weeks is they just can't protect this guy when teams decide they're going to all out blitzum. That was the game plan by Vance Joseph.

We're just going to cover zero blitzum, and they had nothing, nothing to stop us from doing that. They have no deterrence. And we've seen it all year long. Whenever a team has gotten the charters in a spot where they have to pass, they just turned up the blitz style and it's worked every time. And this game, the first 30 minutes at least was just like one example of that. Easton Stick comes in. He does move the ball a couple.

Like he had a couple throws to Quentin Johnson. Quentin Johnson finally has his breakout game once Herbert goes out, go figure. But like once Vance Joseph, what happened in the game was the initial game plan was to blitz the hell out of Herbert. Herbert goes out. I think the Broncos kind of, you know, kind of step back. Stop blitzing because I don't think they had to against East and Sick. He started moving the ball and they were like, oh, yeah, let's blitz again and see what happens. And then that was the end of the game.

Like East and Sick turns the ball over and that's game. But it just speaks to the incompetence of this organization. And it's probably the last time that Brandon Staley, if Justin Herbert is out for the year, it's probably the last time he coaches him. I wonder if it also makes them think about making a move in season. I mean, obviously there's less than a month left. But it's a, you know, it's a 425 game. They're in L.A.

There's tons of Denver fans there. There's like a fire Staley chant going. But they're also totally, you know, shown up in their home stadium, which obviously they're used to it. But it just was pretty bleak. And then meanwhile, for Denver, I mean, I know the Chargers need to get their act together and Herbert got hurt and yada, yada, yada. Is this truly the same Vance Joseph defense that gave up 70 points to the dolphins and now has given up 12 touchdowns since week six? I mean, we had to play dolphin noises to account for 10 touchdowns in one game.

And now since week six, they've given up that plus two touchdowns altogether. It's what is going on? The past rush is just better. Like, I wish there was a more interesting explanation for it. But like Baron Browning is playing well. They're just getting after the passer. And part of it is just advanced Joseph blitzing teams and it getting home more often. think like they made one move where they take Bassie. He's on the Chargers now. He's their

slot corner. I can't remember his first thing. But they replace him with Jaquan McMillan. And McMillan is just like totally transformed that defense. And he made a couple of plays against the Chargers today. But he's been a playmaker for them. And I just really think it comes down to one, they're creating more turnovers, two, they're creating more pressure. And that just makes playing defense easier. It makes pass coverage easier. And they're not having those busts in the secondary. and when you don't make those mistakes and make things easy on the offense, like this tends to happen.

And like offensively, this wasn't the best game for Russell Wilson. It's not like he bounced back from last week's three interception game. He had a 37 QBR. That was actually the same as Easton Stick in this game. So I thought it was another, like, example of Sean Payton kind of coaching

around Russell Wilson's limitations and still being able to score. There was also a revenge game for Joe Lombardi, which we should point out as... Ah, true. Kind of an anti-Lombardi podcast over the year. years. I have to give him credit. He beat Justin Herbert. Wow. Wow. What's a tough beat for you? I got to say. Not the first time Joe Lombardi

has led to Chargers losses. He got the last laugh. Yeah. Defensively, I mean, look, since that, in that stretch since week six when they're six and two, the Denver defense has 18 takeaways. Is something about that a little fluky? Sure. but also it's helped them win games. And I do think they're opportunistic. They do seem like they're playing a more aggressive style that's leading to some of that. Even if they can't quite keep it going, it does seem like they're just in a completely different situation than they were in when they were giving up 400 yards of offense every single week.

All right. Last loser of the day. The Texans who for a half were part of what it looked like could have been. two games that ended without a point. It seemed like we were getting there. For a while, there was just absolutely nothing happening in this, this, um, Jets Texans game. Uh, the entire first half was, was just like punt, punt, punt, punt, punt. Um, and then Zach Wilson kind of went off.

Uh, we can talk about that in a little bit. I think the thing here that's really tough for the Texans, one, obviously they drop a game. would have had an opportunity to tie things up with Jacksonville since the Jaguars lost. But injuries are just really starting to take their toll. CJ Stroud left with a head injury in the fourth quarter. They were already missing Tankdale and Dalton Schultz at the beginning of this game. They also lost Nico Collins in the first quarter. So they might be running out of steam a little bit as we get towards the end of the year.

It's a young team that happens. But they're also just missing a lot of key guys. we don't know all the prognoses on who's going to be back when and obviously, especially with Stroud, hope that he is okay. But it does make me worried that they're just, they're just starting to be down a lot of guys. And it's been such a good story. And we'll see how it ends up. Um, this is probably partly I just, I'm, I'm not willing to believe that this team would have lost this way under normal circumstances, but I really do think in this result, you just see the injuries really taking their toll. And then whatever happened to Zach Wilson, uh, throwing for 300 yards, most of it coming in the second half, um, both Zach Wilson and Joe Flacco over 300 passing yards today. What, what a day. What a week in the NFL. Um, um, But I don't know where that gets you necessarily.

But the Jets are technically still alive. They're at 5 and 8. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we need to revise our Zach Wilson takes based off one half. I want to see it for another week. My take is that it's weird that it happened. Yeah, it is very weird.

He looked very confident. He looked like BYU, Zach Wilson, which is like a good first step to him being better going forward. But I don't think like the result is necessarily. necessarily bad for Houston, like losing to the Jets under these circumstances. You're not, you don't have your top two receivers. C.J. Stroud obviously goes out. They would have lost even if he stayed in just based on how they were playing.

But I think losing by 24 points is, is the problem here. And I agree with you. I just think this is an example of like, if you don't have your two top receivers, it's going to be hard to beat any team. But going up against this Jets team that is so good on the defensive line, If you can't run the football, which has been a problem for Houston all season long, I guess not recently, but for the most part, it's hard to win against them. So I like them losing, it's not concerning to me.

The more concerning thing is the injuries and how they're starting to pile up. All right. Let's take one more break and then we'll come out and we'll finish with the take purge. Thanks again to our sponsor, Uber Eats. With Uber Eats, you can get groceries, alcohol, and everyday essentials in addition to food from your favorite restaurants. In other words, get almost, almost anything with Uber rates. Official on-demand delivery partner of the NFL order now. Alcohol in select markets and 21 plus to order product availability may vary by region C-app for details.

All right, we are back. Last thing for the evening is the take purge. What do you got, Stephen? My take is that the Vikings are cowards for not chasing history. We could have got a zero-zero ball game. And that would have been way more memorable than whenever, however this season's going to end Minnesota, but I would have much rather have seen that. And I don't know, it would have been a great moment for Brian Flores.

I feel like personally it would have been a major win for him to just, it would have, I would have counted it as a win if they had won this game. But really, like, I think the Vikings should, they bench Josh Dobbs in this game. And I'm not saying it wasn't the right move because Nick Mullins comes in and he plays very well in the plays he had. He leads the Vikings to a win. But I do think they're going to lose something by benching Josh Dobbs if they go with going forward. I'm suggesting, and this is a bonus take, two-quarterback system.

This is the perfect opportunity. You have a quarterback who is very clearly an asset when he's running the football. Josh Dobbs gets into trouble when it's like third down. He's seen blitzes. He's seen coverage rotations and he has to throw. He has to process. But like on first and second down, he can handle that offense. And he can, and he's clearly an asset in the run game. I think Nick Mullins, he comes in on third down. He comes in in passing situations. He handles the drop back passing. I think Minnesota could be in games where they don't have to score a field goal late to beat Aiden O'Connell if they have a two-quarterback system.

I love it. I love it. I absolutely love it. Two takes for a two-quarterback system. I really, on your first take, I really couldn't agree more. I mean, it was the first NFL game in six years to be scoreless at the end of the third quarter. There's no game in NFL history that's ever gone into overtime tied at zero.

What does it matter? What's the field goal even for? I mean, who can't? Don't you just want to be legends? Don't you just want to go down in the record books? I mean, isn't at a certain point, like, isn't it better to be recorded for posterity for doing something that no one has ever accomplished before than saying, uh, we're going to, we're going to kick a field goal and win this game that everyone.

is just going to remember for it being really embarrassing and bad. I come on. lame. And you can say the same thing about the two quarterback system. Like if you're going to miss the playoffs, go out with the two quarterback system. At least people will talk about it. Do something interesting. I'm into it.

All right. Speaking of the playoffs, I don't think anyone should win the NFC South. This is my take, purge. I mean, this just. So there is a three-team team. tie after the Buccaneers who've now won two in a row win today. There's a three-team tie atop this division. Every team is six and seven, except for the Panthers who are one and 12, but I'm not talking about them right now. Sorry, keep pounding. If you don't make 500,

you should be out of the playoffs. You should be replaced by another team. As we talked about earlier, there are, what did I say it was? It's like seven teams in the AFC that are all seven. and six. Let one of them do it. I don't want to see the Buccaneers in the playoffs. That team's not good. This is just like, it's embarrassing.

It's the most embarrassing for the Falcons who just simply cannot get it together. I mean, I swear this team should be winning this division, but they just absolutely cannot figure out what they want to do on a weekly basis. And I'm just, I'm tired of all of it. I don't want to see it.

I don't want to see it on my television. I don't want to see a below 500 team as a division winner. It's it's embarrassing. They should be relegated. That's my take. We saw last year too. It happened with this division two years in a row. Yes.

They're always doing this. They are always up to no good. It's always the Southern teams. It's always the AMC South or the NFC South. And the AMC South is finally coming out of it. But at least the AMC South has figured itself out. The NFC South has got to be stopped. I don't even.

think this is like a wild take though like you should have to be at least 500 i think you should be after you you should have to be over 500 to make the playoffs i think that would be a really good take i will say that the somebody um i saw someone point this out the funniest outcome is that the saints win the division with a below 500 record and then go into another year of just like waving magical fairy dust and trying to squeeze a competitive team out of this aging roster without any draft capital and doing their mafia counting thing against a first place schedule. Yeah. See, that's what I would be trying to avoid if I'm one of these teams in this division.

I don't want to win the division. I don't want to have a first place schedule next year because that's just going to make things harder. Like you would hope that you would be in position to be an actual playoff team that can compete and maybe win a game. I think like the Falcons have a chance if they find a quarterback. But I wouldn't want to first place schedule. I wouldn't want to make things harder.

And if like we celebrate Howie Roseman and we we shit on Mickey Loomis. The Saints have a better point differential than the Eagles right now. That's all I'm going to say. So good luck. Oh yeah, you have a healthy cap situation. You have a bunch of stars on your team.

You can't even win. You can't even score more points than the other teams. It's a good point. They have. No, it's not. It's a terrible point, actually. The Saints are not a good team. they have the saints and the Vikings have the same point differential the saints point

differential is uh three points better than the eagles so they have that love it i just i just don't i don't want this anywhere near the playoffs this is not playoff football i they had their chance and they ruined it and they're they're not welcome anymore i'm sorry it's over it's the quarterback's fault like that's the that's the thing that's what it ultimately comes down to if you get a better quarterback, then yes, you could be in the playoffs. You should have to pass that test. Yeah, but you know, but do you know what that test is called? It's, it's called the season. It's called the regular season of football. And they didn't do it. No one did it. Okay. All right. Good stuff. This has been dual threat. That was week 14. Fun games this week. We will

be back on Thursday. And next up in the feed, Sheal and Ben will have extra point taken. their deep dive of week 14, all the games, all the action. Thank you to Kira Givens and Eduardo Ocampo for their work on socials and Isaiah Blakely for producing this episode with additional production supervision by Arjuna Ramgapal and Connor Evans. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fandwell is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC gambling problem called 1-800 gambler or visit Fandul slash RG in Colorado, Iowa

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