The Ringer NFL Show - Week 14 Recap: Herbert Upsets Tua, Eagles Blow Out the Giants, Lions Beat the Vikings | The Ringer NFL Recap Show

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

Nora and Steven are joined by Ben Solak to discuss the highly anticipated matchup between the Chargers and Dolphins. They discuss what the Chargers defense was able to do to stunt Tua Tagovailoa and Miami’s offense. They also talk about Justin Herbert’s impressive performance and where this game leaves the Chargers moving forward. Then Nora and Steven pick out their winners and losers for the week, including the Eagles, Jaguars, and Bucs (33:07). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Guest: Ben Solak Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Peace! We're out of here. NFL Sunday Recap show, week 14. Sunday is in the books. I'm Norv Rinceati. I am joined as usual by Benjamin Solek and Stephen Ruiz. Ben's going to be here for the headline segment of the show. We're going to talk about Chargers, Dolphins, and then Stephen and I will have you covered for the entire Sunday recap. Stephen, I do not have to ask you if it is a happy Sunday because we just watched a really,

really, really exciting game between the Chargers and the Dolphins that I know. know you both were really excited about. So can you confirm to us all that it has been a very happy Sunday in the world of Stephen Reese? Yeah, it's been an ideal Sunday. It went way better than I thought. I'm feeling a little sick. I got a little food poisoning over the weekend.

It doesn't matter. Ooh. I feel much better now. Yeah. It doesn't matter. I'm magically cured. Justin Herbert cures all. Benjamin.

Are any ails that trouble you being cured by Justin Herbert? I mean, Eagles are 12 and 1. or winning the NFC. We're showing. That's the primary reason. I had no problem on a Sunday in a long time. All right. Well,

let's talk about it. That Chargers Dolphins game is going to be our headline. And headlines is brought to you by the quarter pounder with cheese from McDonald's. That's right, folks, the QPC. It's the burger napkins were made for. Each one famously features 100% fresh beef cooked when you order. Topped with sliced onions, crunchy pickles, ketchup and mustard, and two slices of melty American cheese on a sesame seed.

BUN. Order the fresh, juicy QPC. All right. Speaking of fresh and juicy, it's Chargers Dolphins time. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. I think the biggest surprise from this Chargers win, 23 to 17, was what their completely undermanned defense did in really slowing down this Dolphins offense that we've now seen slowed for two games in a row.

So I know we talked a little bit about the game plan that the 49ers brought out to beat the dolphins and what sort of blueprints might have been there for other teams to take away. And I think there was definitely some of that the Chargers ended up doing. Ben, what did you think about Brandon Staley and the Chargers defensive game plan against this Miami offense that were used to? to seeing put up significantly better numbers than this. Yeah, so we entered that Niners game last week.

We said, man, the Niners were really well suited to take away what this offense does well. Fred Warner in the middle of the field, right? They're going to be able to take away all the in-breaking stuff. They're going to police that area, and they'll be fine. The other thing we talked about was whether or not Damico Ryan would press his corners, put the corners up on the line of scrimmage, disrupt the timing of these routes, don't let Tua throw the ball in 1.5 seconds, force him to stay in the pocket,

see if you can generate some pressure. And that's what the Niners did. Well, you have a great game against Tua. You enter this week of prep and you go, right, can the Chargers do that? And the answer is, well, emphatically, no. They don't have the interior players. They don't have the linebacker. Drew Tranquil and Kenneth Murray can't do what Fred Warner did.

So if anything here is tenable, if anything here is translatable, it's pressing corners up on the line of scrimmage. It's getting into the face of Tyreek and Jalen Waddle. And immediately we reach a point, we're just in saying that, the average NFL fan will go, well, no, you can't do that, Ben. Like, that's a terrible idea. It's Tyree Kill and it's Jaylen Waddle. You can't press receivers of this speed, of this quickness. And you're absolutely correct.

But you also can't do anything else, right? The Dolphins face the lowest rate of man coverage in the entire league before they entered that 49ers game. Teams didn't want to play man because they knew they'd lose the Tyreek and Jayman Waddle. They said, right, let's play zone. If we just execute perfectly, if we're just excellent in our zones for four quarters, we'll keep a blanket on top of this offense. The tool was too good.

The passing offense was too good. The spacing was too good. They were flooding the zones. Chris Collinsworth called it out. They have that play, that post, the wheel with the motion. They flood your zones. You can't play zone coverage well enough. Nobody can do it.

You can't execute well enough in zone to punish this offense to really stop them. So you have to live in a man coverage world. You have to live in press man coverage. And sometimes Michael Davis is going to fall over. Sometimes they're going to throw it out a goal ball to Tyree Kill. Michael Davis's heel is going to catch Tyreeks a heel. Davis is going to go down. Hill's going to stay upright.

Catch, 60-yard catch. Tonight, that was the only completion that Tua had against man coverage. 60-yard touchdown of Tyreek Hill. So you get burned. But remember, you're going to get burned if you played zone. The alternative, when you don't get burned now, is you're getting stops. No completions against press man coverage.

For next-gen stats, 35% press-man coverage, a season high figure for the Chargers. Second highest figure the Dolphins have faced all season, the bills in week three was the only higher number. Even if you have a Drew Tranquil to Kenneth Murray, you can find other ways to scheme up an extra body in that middle of the field, right? Chris Collinsworth called out the one lurk coverage,

one robber coverage, the coverage that Jimmy always throws the picks into, right? Get a guy into that middle of the field. The Shanhan offense loves that intermediate middle, so drop a safety in there. So you can scheme up ways to get that body that Drew Tranquil to pass break up there. You can get guys in that area.

But the sauce here is getting corners on the line of scrimmon. impressing them. And yes, you're going to lose some reps, but you're going to win enough. You're going to force Tua to try to throw over the top of defenders. He doesn't like to lead receivers vertically. He'd rather zip between windows.

He doesn't like to leave receivers vertically. You're going to force him to hold onto the ball longer. That's when you see him get antsy. He starts jumping in the pocket, right? He gets really uncomfortable feet. Even his scrambles, they're frantic, right? They're frenetic. He's jerking around.

He's looking for space. He's moving. He gets so uncomfortable, the longer that ball's in his hand. This is the formula. Week one against the Niners, it was, okay, the Niners defense is very good. But if anything is copyable, it's this press coverage. Now we've gone to two weeks.

Chargers copied it. A lot of success. Bill's next week. We see this three weeks in a row. Mike McDaniel's got to come up with a solution because Tulane's solving this problem for him. He's going to have to come up with a way to beat this coverage without his quarterback being involved. A mighty difficult task. I'm not sure he'll be able to solve come playoff time.

So, okay, I want to talk about Herbert, but let's keep going with this a little bit because I'm really curious about it. is there something? Look, we know that Tua has a history as a player of getting spooked. You get to him, you rattle him, and he will play in a way that indicates that he's rattled. The Dolvins now have back-to-back losses where their offense was really out of sync. The timing in particular seems really disrupted, and that's so critical to what they do. You know, we've gone from, okay, maybe there's a blueprint to, oh, yeah, here's a piece of the blueprint. but is the answer that the blueprint is kind of foolproof or are there buttons to push to help Tua get out of this funk? Because there's got to be something, right?

Like you've got to imagine that Mike McDaniel, who's designed one of the most exciting offenses in the NFL this season, is going to have some sort of counter to this. What I would say is like this is the solution to beating any of these high flying offense. Like you go back through the history of the NFL. NFL. It's always the same game plan. Just beat the hell out of the receivers at the line of scrimmage, throw off the timing and disrupt the quarterback. When the Patriots upset the Chiefs in

2018, that was the game plan. They played cover one against Tyree Kill and Jason, or Travis Kelsey. No other team was doing that that year. The Patriots did it. So I do think that on one hand, it's kind of a blueprint. On another hand, it's like

a blueprint that applies to every good offense throughout the history of the NFL. I'd push back on that a little bit because I think that while that is generally a blueprint, you know, to beating the high-flying offenses in structure, one of the things that we've seen over the last five years is the cost benefit of the press coverage starts to fall in the offense's favor because, all right, you beat the first construct, you beat the first iteration, you beat the structured offense, then the Holmes gets out of the pocket. You got to play football again. Welcome to the second half of the play. Five of your defenders are their back turned and

they're 30 yards down the field, right? Like we, I think we saw some swings towards, okay, we're only going to rush four, but we're going to play with zone. We're going to play with eyes on, and we're going to play with match coverage, so on and so forth, to deal with that second reaction.

The reason why this is a particular kryptonite, a particular issue for the Dolphins offense. Is that they don't have a second reaction ability right now. When two a scrambles, you're just not worried. Like, yeah, he big that he had like a second and seven scramble that went for a first down. Okay, you know, it's not like Josh Allen where it's,

It's an antelope on steroids running 40 yards down the field. You know, you're fine with it, right? You live with his second reaction plays what he does outside of structure. So if Tua's not going to create outside of structure for you, you have to see if you can get more press man coverage beaters into the offense. I got news for you. They're running a lot of press man coverage beaters. Tua's got to be able to throw a ball vertically.

And this is not an arm strength thing per se. This is a quarterback's in the pocket. trying to lead a receiver. It's a wildly different throw, wildly different. When a receiver's moving left to right over his vision, horizontally, and he has to throw into a window between zone defenders, or even just lead a guy who's moving left to right in his vision and lead him against man coverage,

as opposed to when a receiver is running away from you, and you have to lead him vertically, over the top, throw the ball into a bucket, to a good or not good. Alabama film, Miami film, who he's thrown to, doesn't matter. go watch the Alabama film. They're running posts. They're running deep crosses. Why?

Because it gets the guy moving on to his vision left to right. And he's much better, much better, very good. Throwing the football with placement when players moving horizontally relative to him. When players move vertically, he's not as good. And if you're going to run a press man coverage beater, you know, you got to run wheels, go balls. You've got to be, there's other options. You can run rub routes or you can run slants. And they're going to run more of those.

They're probably going to run more bunch sets where they hide Tyreek in the. the bunch and make it more difficult to press him. But again, you have to throw verticals out of these looks. You need to be able to have a quarterback who leaves the receiver vertically. And right now, Tua is extremely hot and cold on those throws. It's not reliable. Can't build an offense out of it. I think it's also a different, like tight window throws are different when you're throwing

it off with like an RPO. So it's like an instant throw where the linebackers don't really have time to break on the ball. They're just like getting into their drops when the ball comes out. when they have time to break on the ball, we start to see these tight window throws not look so accurate from Tua. And that's always been the criticism with him.

Yes, he is accurate when everything's right. But when something's off, that accuracy goes out the window and we've seen that two straight games. This isn't just like poor accuracy like he missed throws by two feet. This is like God awful accuracy. Yeah, like balls nowhere near anybody. And that's the thing that's the most shocking to me is like,

I thought the Niners would slow them down. I didn't think we'd get 17 points, 10 points after the first Trent Sherfield. catch and run. I thought the Chargers had a shot, but honestly, I thought the Dolves were going to score a ton of points. Yeah.

In each of the last two weeks, I thought, okay, the defense could take away something or that. They can get a press coverage rep. I continue to, from the earlier film this season, and even from what he did last year, expect to it to be better or more accurate in the quick game than he is. He, and like, I don't want to get into pseudo-psycho analysis.

I don't want to get into, like, you know, what Brian Flores has done to him in kind of every course of his career and the concussions. Like, there's so much the two has had to deal with. He's been through trial. and tribulations. But the second he starts to falter, I mean, he falls apart. I'm like, this is now a consistent thing we've seen going back to last season and into this season, where once he gets a little bit behind the sticks and he's missed a couple of throws and his team is

behind the eight ball, I mean, he's trying to create windows that don't exist. He's trying to throw contested balls that have no nonsense. There's checkdowns that are open. There's stuff I've seen him do. Extremely easy one-on-one quarterbacking stuff that he's done with regularity that he just all of a sudden is no longer capable of doing. This is a janga tower offense. This is a grain of sand offense. If you get one win early, they snowball. And McDaniel is a young head coach.

The number one thing he's got to figure out is how to deal with the pace and the tenor and the emotion of his quarterback and his offense. Just settle him down. Yeah. He got eventually on the Tyree Kill touchdown drive, they went like run, run. short pass run, and then they got the Tyree Kill one-on-one on third and five, right? That sort of drive where you just let him hand it off a few times. You let him get to the freaking 50.

I mean, they didn't get past the 50 until the Tyree Kill Morgan Fox sack at the beginning of the fourth quarter. Like McDaniel's got this gamer mentality where like, yeah, your Madam quarterback wouldn't be worried about all the bad plays he's made, but this is a real dude. And you've got to learn how to settle him down. I do think he tried to do that last week, too. Like he's trying to do it. It's just like little too,

like too little too late. Yeah, it's learning how to do it. He absolutely knows it's got to be done. It's just he's got to learn what buttons to press. And with two, it's a particular,

it's a particularly difficult riddle because he's just got a lot of baggage that he brings to some of these situations. Isn't the answer to just have more fumbles become touchdowns? Yeah, call the fumble play. I mean,

call it again. Come on. Yeah. Dial it up. There's no way he saw that. It wasn't like, I should run a statue of Liberty, fake Neil with Tyreek Hill.

whatever. Like this is McDaniel. Right. That's like that's like the origin story of like the read option. Like it was just like a bust and practice. Like that's going to become like a new concept. Or like pedicillet. Like somebody screwed up. Yeah.

But it is wild that like Mike McDaniel was the offensive coordinator for the Niners there before he came over. Before that for five years, this guy was the run game coordinator. And his passing designs are sick. This guy's been sitting on some cool stuff. But running game wise, the dolphins really could have used. just a nice nine play. We only ever get the second and five drive in the middle of this game just to settle the

settle the chips. And they didn't have it. No Jeff Wilson, of course, but they didn't have it. Funnily enough, that the Chargers tend to be an ideal opponent when that's what you want, when you want to get that going.

Yeah, they are. I'm kind of surprised he didn't run the ball more. I really thought that was going to be a part of the game plan. But I think I do think it's an inexperienced thing. I think Ben brings up a good point. Like you saw the game get away from McDaniel with his play calls in the in the second quarter, I would say. But everything we've seen so far through the first 13 weeks has been like a plus stuff from him as a rookie coach.

So I have like no worries about him whatsoever. He's being hamstrung by a quarterback who does like say what you want about to like how good he's played this year. But he does have clear weaknesses and limitations that hamstring the offense. Do you guys want to talk about Justin Herbert? So that comment is honestly a very important launching off point for Justin Herbert. Because the contrast between Tua and Herbert in terms of play style and how they win could not be more stark. Like I said, Tua is a Jenga quarterback. There is one piece that if you pull this thing out, the whole tower tumbles, right?

If he can't throw a middle of the field anticipation window throws, they can't do anything. There's nothing tenable about the offense. There's nothing consistent about the offense. It's made up. It's gadget plays. It's shot plays. They cannot move the ball regularly if you just get this one piece out of the offense. In contrast to Justin Herbert, who if you don't think this guy's great.

If you don't think this guy's great, you're not watching, man. You're not watching the games. I mean, I don't know. There's not a facet of quarterbacking in which this guy is not remarkably above average, if not great, if not elite. Like, I don't want to get in like, is he top two, top three, top four? Just on every single down, getting a free. rusher out of a blitz that he has to then take a hit and get to a late read in his progression.

A left tackle losing consistently. Snap in, snap out. There's somebody on his back, on his blindside. He has to manage the pocket. Step up consistently with covered receivers, having to throw contested balls, having to throw players open. Keenan Allen on the third down throwing to the outside. Gerald Everett, the second and 20 drop on a perfect ball between zone windows. The scramble on third down to keep the drive alive to get the field goal to go ahead, two scores.

there is nothing about quarterbacking that is outside of his realm. It's the whole kit and caboodle. If you don't think he's great, you're not watching him play because he does all of this and then they scored 23 points. They have like two field goals. He's got like a 0.06 EPA.

They go whatever DVOA, yards per attempt of six. Like, it's going to get hidden from you because there's so much around him that is insufficient. There's so much around him slack that he's responsible for picking up that you just got to watch him,

take a snap. And it becomes so clear once you do that this guy's got Atlas shoulders, man, but you have to watch him play. And when you watch him play against a quarterback like Tua, in contrast, who just is a cog in the wheel, just plays part of a role. Herbert is everything for this offense. Absolutely the offense could and should be better. But Herbert is everything. And like the discourse around like the it factor thing with him is just unbelievable because you're seeing what he's dealing with. and the guy just doesn't blink.

He never blinks. In the face of anything, he never blinks. Like, he's the second best quarterback in the NFL. I don't understand how anybody watches him and does not come away with that same take. I love that Ben was like, I don't want to, second, third. I don't want to get into it, Stephen. I do. When people do that, the goalposts are moved, right?

Not to see like, Stephen's doing that, but say, like, all right, well, you think Herbert's so great. You think he's better than Mahomes and Allen? It's like, I don't know. Yes. No, maybe. Like right now I do because I just watch them play. If I watch Josh Allen have a 40-point day, I'd be like, yeah, Josh Allen. Like second, third, that's not interesting to me.

What do you do it? What do you bring to the team, right? I've got, I've got like Jared Goss of the world who like, you know, are limited in these capacities and they're great in these capacities. And Detroit's built wonderfully around him and now he looks amazing. And I've got Trevor Lawrence's of the world who've looked incredible out, like, you know, within their structure. But the receiving core hasn't been enough. And they've been bad in the red zone. And all of some of this explosion of production, right?

Like, it's always a moving goalpost. Who's great? Who's not? What are the numbers? When I watch Justin Herbert take snap after snap after snap in an offense that is doing everything possible to hinder him with an offensive line that cannot protect for him and does not change their protection, with a receiver core built by a front office that is obsessed with players who run four, six, five, or slower, when you look at the, the way this guy's deck is stacked

and then you watch him play, it's very evident. He's extremely good. And then I'm done with the conversation. Ranking wherever you want. Yes. But if you're not watching and play, you're not understanding what we got here. You're missing the forest for the trees. And that's why people like me and like Ben and people that like stump for Herbert get frustrated

with the criticism of them because they're not valid criticisms. And it's like a total mischaracterization of why people think Herbert is great. No, like the tools thing, the arm strength, that's like the fifth thing, like the fifth best thing about him. He is a total quarterback. There is nothing he can't do. There is no play you can't call. There's nothing you can't do on offense because of him. And

like tonight's performance, which is like a master class. And like Ben said, I think he ended up with like seven yards per attempt. I had people like tweeting at me. He only has seven yards per attempt. He's not even playing that well. No matter what your imagination says, you saw the game and you can't play quarterback any better

than that. I've not seen a performance this year that was better than that. And here's the crazy thing. He did not play any better than he did last week. He did not play any better than he did last week. Well, okay. So this sort of goes to the make the whole plan out of Justin Herbert. Although I guess they deserve some credit.

Lombardi deserves some credit for adjusting the offense slightly. I thought they had him on the move more than typical in this game. He was, you know, there was the touchdown to. Williams where he rolled out to make the throw. What a friend of bro. Ben mentioned unbelievable. Ben mentioned the first down inside of five that he scrambled for. So some of it was rolling out and making throws.

Some of it was just moving the chance with his legs. I'm saying that is the nice thing to get out of the way. Like I think they can't protect and that helps them. They deserve credit for making that adjustment. Stephen, you've offered to fight Joe Lombardi several times. So with that being said, tell us how you're feeling about the offense. Yeah, like it took until week 14 for him to realize that he can move Justin Herbert.

I know. Oh, my God. It's just like what? Yeah. Outside of the pocket. The best thing is that he moved him out of the pocket constantly, got constant good rewards for him. and then on third and one, up six in the fourth quarter, called a bubble screen to Keenan Allen,

who, like, cannot move currently. Like, Keenan is gutting it out right now. He is just not moving well. And I can guarantee you the reason he called it was because, well, they've been getting a lot of pressure on us in the pocket and we didn't want Herbert, you know, potentially take a sack and they were going to send a blitz. You'd solve this problem in the first quarter.

Just remember what you were doing and keep doing it. I was kind of surprised at how bad the Chargers protected, though. Like, this was, I think it was a combination of the Dolphins' defensive line being very good. I think. Really, like Christian Wilkins is turning into a star before our eyes. Which makes their approach on defense make no sense. You have a defensive line. You have the best thing you can have, a four-man rush that can get home and you can play zone coverage behind it.

Like, that's what every NFL defense wants to do. And they put seven men on the line of scrimmage on every key down. against one of the smartest quarterbacks and one of the most athletic and one of the best processors. That game plan made no sense. It made no sense whatsoever. Like that's the reason why they lost this game

outside of the offense was a terrible, terrible game plan by the Dolphins defense. As good as Staley's game plan was, Boyer's game plan, it might have been that bad. What are we missing here? Charger of special teams, almost special teamed?

I mean, the Chargers zone was charged. Like even Herbert almost fumbled the way. I know. Dude, if Herbert fumbles the snap and then the dolphins go on to win. The unbelievable pretzling, the contortion that would occur to get the Herbert does not clutch takeoff.

Legendary. Yeah, Stephen brings up that Brandon Staley had a good defensive game plan. Staley is such a difficult coach to calibrate to right now. The fourth down decisions when he makes them and when he doesn't make them and Joe Lombardi and his personal relationship with him and why Joe Lombardi is the offensive coordinator

and then the defensive personality brought in, but then all the injuries. And like, everybody's got an opinion on Brandon Staley. It's somewhere on the polls. And like the truth's probably somewhere in the middle. Steven said it very well in the first quarter of this game. I think he tweeted it out. Guy can still game plan a little bit, right?

Like just they, they. Yeah. Yeah. Asante Samuel knew every route. Like, you know, they got Drew Tranquil, like pressing and then dropping. They got Kenneth Murray almost had a pick. When you got Kenneth Murray in a passing lane, you're cooking with gas. Like he, he, Staley deserves credit for his ability to,

a week in a week out, get this defense looking the way it needs to look without Derwin James against an offense that a lot of teams have struggled to stop. Even with like a Damico Ryan's blueprint existing, Staley, like, you know, the... Yeah, he has Drew Tranquil instead of Fred Warner. Yeah, exactly. Kind of hard. The arrow, the arrow on Staley

shoots up and then it goes down and it's so difficult to figure out. Right now, arrow up for Brandon Staley and for the charges with like, what, like a 60% chance to make the playoffs now? Yeah. And I would say, like, I think Staley's probably a good. head coach. Like when you think about, when you look at all of his, his game management decisions

on balance, like over the last two years, I think he's probably given the charges a boost they wouldn't have gotten from a coach who was more traditional. I think that the criticism of his defensive approach and not adjusting that approach when it's clear that the chargers can't stop anyone on the ground is valid. But the game plans, man, I mean, it's been two years every week. The game plan makes sense. Every time you watch them on film, like, You could see what they're going for. They just don't have the guys to do it. The guys are in position.

They just can't make the plays. So, like, I really think that Staley saved his job tonight. I think he's coming back next year because of this game in particular. They should feel fine. Part of the Staley thing is, it's actually a little bit like the Tua conversation. It has nothing to do. It doesn't have nothing to do, but it has less to do with the principle in the conversation than it feels like it does.

It's just a type of thing where, you know, don't anoint people as geniuses. And I don't know who I'm talking to. This is such a dumb straw man argument. But it's like if somebody gets designated as the genius who's here to completely revolutionize the sport and no one's been, no one's ever been this smart in the history of the game. And oh my God,

I can't believe that we haven't been doing it like this forever. Like that person has just been set up to fail essentially. Yeah. Because it's just never true. It's just never true. It's never what's going on. People don't reinvent extremely old sports and ways of running a team overnight. It just doesn't happen that way.

And like all the press conference clips last year that were like going viral, like, oh, the coach said that racism is bad. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, look, I am guilty of this sometimes because a lot of coaches do not speak like normals. And Brandon Staley does speak like a normal human being. And that's nice. And I think that we should give him.

positive reinforcement for that. But yeah, it's not like, we haven't reinvented the wheel here. Is being normal a good thing for a coach though? I don't know. I do not want a normal person at coach. The good ones are crazy. Yeah. You got to

like if you're going to be a good crazy one, what you got to do that Brandon Saley has yet to do is like go to the playoffs win proof of concept. Right. At that point, you're like, all right, wear whatever cutoffs you want. You win in football games. And that's why like our large high

fluent high concept conversations of like does Brandon Staley reinvent defense like what does he mean for league yada yada whatever what the Chargers players care about the Chargers fans care about and I'm assuming Chargers ownership cares about is like it's time to make the playoffs the quarterback is very good

that we have high paid receivers we have star down on defense the nuts and the bolts of the Brandon Staley right now is even if you crawl your way in get to the playoffs show some sort of measurable we are improved as a team. And that way there's just going to be more faith, more positive vibes, more comfort with you

going into year three. Yeah, they needed this win. Like, if, let's say that the, the dolphins did recover that, that onside kick and then go down and score and they win the game. Like, the owner, the Charter's owner is not going to be grinding the All-22 and being like, can you believe this plan? This guy, we got to bring this guy back. Yeah.

He's not grinding that film. Like, you have to get the wins. But that doesn't take away from the fact that I do think he's like a very good defensive game planner, which you can question how value. that is as a head coach. I don't think it's the most valuable thing. It's helped Belichick win Super Bowls at times, but it's obviously not like the secret sauce.

The problem is that it's probably like the thing that would be more valuable and way easier to do but still more valuable. And yet the opposite is happening is just like having a conversation with the offensive staff and being like, hey, so you know where the first down marker is. It's not it's not prices right rules. Like you can go further than that and it's fine.

Whoa. Whoa, whoa. Joe Lombardi is confused. Roll this back. Joe Lombardi has a question. Take that back for Joe. This is my theory. It's like if the entire offense makes sense if you think that they think it's Price's right rules. And that's the only lens through which I can understand the Chargers offense.

If he could successfully have that conversation. And the thing is he had it last year. Like they fixed the offense at the buy last year. Yeah. I assume that something similar. would be coming this year, but it just didn't happen. Maybe that's a personnel thing. They fixed it by, if you look at like their target distribution,

they just threw it to Keenan on early downs a lot more. Guess who had his 10th game of 12 catches setting an NFL record tonight? Keenan! They got one solution, and it's a 4-6 man with a Gimpy hamstring right now. Brandon Staley, good defensive game plans. Chargers 60% chance to make the playoffs. Charges need a playoff berth. You know who comes into town next week?

Tennessee Titans. The Tennessee Titans. Talk about a key change. You go from stopping this offense to then we got to play as a big boy football against a lot of tight ends, a lot of heavy personnel, and a big running back named Derek Henry. This is a big gut check. This feels great. But now you're turning around and you're getting literally the antithesis of this offense.

And it's a Titans team that has been reeling. It's not like it's like the Titans that always come in and, you know, cause problems. They've had some losses. So they're going to be a little bit desperate. They're going to be a little bit on top of it. Chargers Titans next week. Big, big football game. That'll be fun.

All right, Ben, we should let you go. We've been going along on this one, which I sort of knew that we would. Whiteboard check in. Oh, yeah, Tua had three completions at halftime. Three for 14. Tua ends the game. I think it was 10 completions for 140 yards before prevent defense, the final drive. Six completions for 112 yards.

Remember 60 of which came on the Tyree Kale catch and run. This wasn't just a bad night. This is one of the worst quarterbacking nights we've seen this year. Thank you, Ben. All right, that was our headline. And headlines was brought to you by the quarter pounder with cheese from McDonald's. The quarter pounder with cheese, the QPC, is sort of like a QB. It's a star because it's surrounded by all the right teammates, 100% fresh beef cooked when you order,

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1778 Hope and Y or text Hope and Y to 467-369 in New York, 1,800 522-470-470 in Wyoming or visit www.8800 gambler.net in West Virginia. All right, let's get to winners and losers. First winner from you, Stephen. My first winner is the Philadelphia Eagles, the best team in football by record, at least. They win 48 to 22 over the Giants. And this is a second week in a row that I think some skeptics of the Eagles have said that this is a bad matchup. the same thing about Tennessee.

This is a defense that could do all the things that Jalen Hertz and the Eagles offense was struggling with over the first half of the season. They could blitz. They could stop to run. They could do all that. Are you talking about Solac? Yeah, I'm talking about Solac. That was some shade at Solac.

37 points last week or 36. I forget which one is 48 points this week. They're passing every test. Jalen Hertz is passing every test. And I know that's going to sound like weird coming from me, the guy that has them ranked 11th in his quarterback rankings. Boo-hish. But this is what I would expect the 11th ranked quarterback to look like in the best offense in the NFL, like talent wise, Depchar wise.

This team, like, I was talking myself out of them being the best team in NFC over the last month. I think I'm back to thinking that they're the best team. Like, they match up with anybody and they just have so much talent that I think any concerns about their coaching staff. And it's not like warranted. It's just based on their inexperience because we've never seen them winning the playoffs. I don't think it's going to matter. It's hard to out-scheme a team that is this talented. Like against the Giants, like the Giants tried to clog up the middle,

tried to take away the RPO's in the run game. They have a plan B. They just run outside. They just pull Kelsey outside the tackles. And he's one of the best blockers on the move in the league. And I love doing that. And it didn't look hard at all against a very good defense. And I know the Giants have had some injuries and it's not like they're starting secondaries out there.

And Wink Martindale is kind of a, he's an iffy defensive coordinator when he's on a talent disadvantage, I would say. But still, 48 points against a team that's probably going to make the playoffs and a team that's been carried by its defense this year. It's very impressive. The Giants have won games when they've been at a talent disadvantage this season. but when it's worked, it's because that, some of it is because what they've been able to piece together offensively. But it's also been because Wink has succeeded in some situations where it's just like, let's create chaos, right? Like, here's your third down high leverage situation. Let's just throw the kitchen sink and make everything and get crazy and you hope you get a few bounces.

I just don't think that really works against the Eagles. They just have too many cards to play. There's too many different ways that they can attack. whatever gets thrown at them. I think they're pretty clearly the best team in the NFC, particularly Cowboys had a really iffy day. Well, the 49ers found the best

quarterback in NFL history. The 49ers are looking pretty impressive, but you know, Debo gets banged up. Don't want to go totally overboard with on the Brockett ship. The Brockpot, slow roasting defenses. Oh, my God. And then obviously the Seahawks have fallen off.

So even by process of elimination, I think they're pretty clearly the top dog. I mean, I could see them losing on the road in the playoffs somehow, but they're probably not going to have to do that. Yeah, I think the only team that has like a real chance with them. And I don't know if they match up well with them is the 49ers though, because we've seen this is a defense that can stop high-powered offense with a lot of weapons and a lot of cards to play. But I think you're right.

And I think like the difference between the Dolphins offense and the Eagles offense, which I think are like the two breakout offenses of the of the season, is that their quarterback allows them to do a lot more, especially out of structure and in the run game. I don't know. Like the Eagles offense line is very good. I don't know if the run game would be as good without Jalen Hertz back there. If you just had like a regular traditional quarterback who was just turning around and handing

the ball off like Tua does or Tua runs RPO's too. But I don't think the run game would be as productive, and I don't think things would be as easy. So while I, like, if you're making the MVP case for Jalen Hertz, I do think like the supporting cast kind of works against him in that way. But man, Jalen Hertz creates this environment with his presence in the backfield. And I think that's something that he does deserve credit for. I'm not going to put him over Patrick Mhombs in the MVP race,

even after this big game and Mahomes had an iffy game. But he's a good player. just a good player. Like thinking about it through the lens of MVP is sort of complicated because I feel like MVP like it's about your whole body of work, but so much if it has to do with the best of what someone has to offer. And the Eagles offense and the Dolphins offense have similarly, at least I think, similarly high ceilings.

Yeah. The Eagles offense has a much higher floor. That's a good point. Because they have, they don't have one counter. They have like three counters. because of the diversity of the running game, the diversity of the running game, including the quarterback running.

And then the fact that, you know, every blade of grass in terms of their passing game is up for grabs. And he's proven, surprisingly, to me, that that Hertz has that he can make those throws. Yeah. So I can see the 49ers, just because of how good that defense is. I do think, you know,

the Cowboys offense with Dak, has a game in them where I think they can they can stay there. It's just like Dax are on a lot of picks and it's a little bit up and down. You know, the Cowboys offense that was playing the Vikings, right? Like the way that looked, that team can hang. Some of that obviously has to do the defense. But I just, I think they're clearly the best team in the end of state.

No other team has as many easy buttons they can push on offense. And then going back to the, the first segment, we were talking about how teams were forcing to it to make those deep throws outside the numbers. Jalen Hertz might be the best like go ball thrower in the NFL right now. Like every perimeter, he's doing like basically what Joe Burrow did with the deep ball last year outside the numbers, the go balls, like volatile plays. First of all. First of all. This is, this is Brock Purdy erasure. That's true. Brock Hardy is the best quarterback of all time. He doesn't, I don't include him in these

conversations. Otherwise, it wouldn't be fair. It's not fair. Otherwise, we would just wouldn't have him. He's the best quarterback ever. Did you see him today? I did. It's unbelievable. I believe two touchdown passes on deep throws outside the numbers. Yes. Jimmy G. had two in the last three years combined, by the way. Poor Jimmy. All right. Eagles are a winner. My first winner is the Detroit Alliance who beat the Vikings 34 to 23. They've now won five of their last. six. So a team that was one in six at the beginning of November, suddenly Cusby playoff team. They have, they're a game out of the playoff picture in the NFC, a game back in the lost column, at least. I have to be honest, my brain is not functional enough to understand how everything

works when there's ties. However, they own a tiebreaker over the Giants. So it's really genuinely realistic that the lions could come back from one and six and end up in the playoffs, particularly with how well their offense is working, which was, again, the case against the Vikings. Certainly, as has become typical, I think they've given up at least 400 yards in five straight games. There are some issues with the soft, cushy Vikings defense. But Ben Johnson just seems completely in the zone.

That applies to Jared Gough, too. it hasn't thrown a pick in his last six games. To me, that is the key, right? Like, I don't totally know why this is so controversial. Jared Goff is not a great quarterback. Like, he's doing well on play action. He's doing what's asked of him. And he's not turning the ball over.

And he has a really good supporting cast around him. And the whole thing works. And that seems like it should be enough. Clearly it is for them to win a bunch of games. But James and Williams caught a 40. one yard touchdown on his first career reception. The deep ball is really working for them. That's one thing that's really developed over the course of the season.

And then like Ben Johnson's got pre soul motioning out eligible to catch game sealing passes on, on third and seven, right? So everything seems to be firing on all cylinders for this offense. It's really, really fun to watch. It's really, really impressive. I think that phrasing that like everything's firing on all cylinders is really operative, right?

when we try to understand what we're talking about here and how much has to do with the whole picture and how much has to do with the quarterback himself who's doing a bang up job. And I see no reason why they can't keep it going. And again, they have a little bit of ground to make up. But if I had to call it right now, I just feel like they're going to sneak into the playoffs. Yeah, because I don't think like it's based on Jared Goff. And that would be like a house of cards. I would be worried about collapsing.

It's based on this offensive line in this run game and this offensive coordinator who is just meshed the run game and the past game so well. Like this is 2017, the 2017 Rams all over again. It looks different. But they've put Jared Goff in that same environment. And we've seen him do this before. Like it's not a surprise that he's capable of doing this when all the pieces are right. I'm going to take an L on Dan Campbell because he's turned things around.

And it would have been so easy for. for that team to just fold up after the start they had. The defense has gotten better. Aaron Glenn has just been on his shit since over like the last two months. By the way, is Aubrey Pleasant the worst defensive backs coach in the history of the NFL? Like he left it. It went from the worst defense ever to like one of the best in the NFL. I don't actually think that, but it's just, I think it's just poor timing.

But God, bad look for him. It's like what, what Bill always tweets that the Ewing Theory Committee wants to like go pay a visit to Detroit. I mean, we may have to rename the Ewing theory. updated based it around him. The committee probably has to approve renaming the committee. I feel like when you judge head coaches, it's very hard to judge what a head coach does because they're not always involved in the play calling.

It's easier when they're involved with the play calling. But two things stand out from good head coaches. They get buy-in from the locker room, which the lines clearly have. They got buy-in when they were losing, which is like one of the hardest things to do. Ask Matt Patricia, how easy that is. and then he hired a good staff.

That's like the two most important jobs to me for a head coach, is hiring the right coordinators and getting by in from the locker room. And he's a plus in both regards. So does, by the way, like in fairness to Jared Goff, he's part of that too, right? Like those guys clearly really like him. He's their Walter Payton, man of the year award nominee. I do think that makes a difference.

The other thing, this is not about people being nice and buy in. But the other thing for the offense that I do think, the piece to me that is about the quarterback is the fact that he's not turning the ball over. Just because historically, Jared Goff is a high interception quarterback. And for the last going on two months, that has not been the case. If there's one thing to me that dictates sort of what his piece of this is and how far it can go, It's that. And it's how well that keeps playing out.

If he reverts, might be talking about a slightly different situation because it's not like he's creating a ton for them. And it's a little bit similar to the conversation about like, you know, they're all very different. But the Dolphins offense and the Eagles offense, Jared Goff can't move.

So you don't have other options if things start going wrong. but right now nothing's going wrong. If he starts throwing picks, then those negative plays, I don't know what's there that they're going to be able to just overcome that. And that was the case for the first month and a half plus of the year. But right now it's just not an issue.

And if that, look, that only needs to hold for another month, right? And if it does, I really think they're going to sneak into the playoffs. I also think Dave Campbell deserves credit for like game management, like the fourth down decisions. He's like very aggressive, go, he's by the numbers, by the book, like the analytical book that the book you should be following.

He makes all the right decisions. He's a very good head coach. All right. First loser. My first loser is the Broncos. I feel like we could rename this segment after them. They've been losers. It seems like they've been losers every week.

But they lose to the chiefs 34 to 28 in a game that was really way more competitive than I would have imagined. And I think they're losers because this was like the game they were kind of looking forward to. like not playing the Chiefs, but the game for the offense. They score 28 points. Russell Wilson goes 23 of 36 for 247 yards and three touchdowns. He did throw an interception. And he was scrambling. Unfortunately, he scrambled and it picked up a concussion along the way.

And Brett Rippin came in through an interception late. I think his arm got hit and it popped up in the air, kind of killed the comeback drive. But, I mean, this was like the best version you can get of this. team, this particular Broncos team, and it still wasn't enough. And you have Patrick Mahomes throwing three interceptions, three ugly interceptions, and they still lose the game at home. I think this was the moment where it's like, oh, we see progress here, but this is never going to be good enough, this setup. Nathaniel Hackett and Russell Wilson, they're just not going to be good enough to keep up with Andy Reid and Pat Mahomes. And to be fair to them, that is a very high bar that

most teams in the NFL would not be able to clear. But that's life in the AFC West. And it's going to be life in the AFC West for the next 10 years. So I mean, it's it's a tough loss. I really think they needed that win. Like you saw the outpouring of emotion from Russell Wilson when he threw the deep touchdown pass. I think it was like the first score of the game. He just let it all out. And it was a very cathartic game. And it could have, I think this could have been a game that like kind of not turn things around because I think they're too far gone at this point. But it could have at least like flip the narrative a little bit. And it could have given some hope that this is going to work out eventually. But Patrick Mahomes is, I mean, he was good enough in the first half where him

forgetting how to play football in the second half didn't even matter. So I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's still my MVP after like, like just the most bozo interceptions you can ever see. But the no look pass on the touchdown made up for all of that. It's crazy. Totally crazy. The Broncos defense, though, it's, it's, look, it's a rare feat that any defense can flemocks Mahomes to that degree. And they've been good against him. It's usually not enough. It's very hard for that to be enough, particularly when an offense isn't reliable.

The rest thing is such a bummer, obviously just because you wish he hadn't gotten hurt. But also the two things that you mentioned, the fact that they're having him scramble, or at least they were, and that they were having continuing to have success with the deep ball. those have been two things that were that actually were working for them, like have been working for them. The scrambling thing, they just hadn't done very much of. But when he moves, he's not the athlete he used to be, but those were still efficient plays for them. So it did seem like if you're trying to put together a path for them to salvage this a little bit, those two things, because he's been consistently good with the deep ball all season. you know, that's not a high percentage of your plays,

but he'd been hitting those. Those two things seemed like they were part of the formula. You know, anybody, any staff, particularly one as maligned as, as Hackett's is in Denver right now, I think they deserve credit for leaning into whatever is working. I do think they deserve credit for having a team that's hard to see why, but they're still fighting, right? So if there could have been so much, but it just didn't happen.

I think you could, I think you could like in retroactively spin zone the Purcell Wilson sideline incident and be like if if they had checked out and this team wasn't still playing hard, I don't think they Purcell would have cared as much. Like he you don't like a lot of teams just check out at that point don't care as much. But like it's like clearly the defense is still playing very hard. So like if you want to give They know they're good. If you want to give Hackett a gold star for something,

I guess you can give it to him for that. All right. My first loser is the Jets who lost the Bills, 20 to 12. They've lost two in a row for the first time this season. Also, their best player, arguably, Quinn and Williams leave the game and not return with the calf injury.

That's going to make him iffy going forward. And they're seven and six, which probably means they're going to have to win three of their last four to, be assured of the wild card, wild card birth in the FC, and Mike White is banged up. He got hit seven times. I had to leave the game a couple of times to get checked out,

and then he went to the hospital after the game. I think on a precautionary basis was able to rejoin the team to go home, but clearly really hurting. I think Romo was speculating on the broadcast that he looks like he might have cracked a rib or something. I have no idea if that's true, but very obviously was taking a real beating from a Bill's defensive line that was probably the best thing happening for either team in the game,

which is encouraging for them, given that, you know, this is their first game after learning that Von Miller is officially done for the year, a second game without him. And Greg Rousseau, Epinessa, Shaq Lawson, they each had one sack, but Rousseau and Matt Milano in particular, were, you know, looked like two of the best players on the field.

And they were able to pressure the jazz quarterbacks on 40% of their dropbacks. So that was, and that was really, especially given the conditions being pretty crappy, were what they needed to win the game. But this Bill's team is vulnerable. Like, I still don't totally know what's going on with Josh Allen throwing the ball. it really seemed like he was struggling to distribute. And they had 232 net yards. They're fewest in the game this season by almost 100 yards.

Jets had an opportunity here and they just didn't get it and got hit with some really bad injury luck at a bad time as they're trying to finish strong and ensure a playoff berth. So, you know, there have been times when it seems like they can really coast on the strength of their defense. But that's harder and harder when you're losing guys like Quinn Williams and. and maybe Mike White and having to monitor those two dealing with injuries going forward. I did really like seeing Josh Allen like carried the ball more. He carried the ball 10 times and he scored a touchdown. A couple key first down conversions. One where he like hurtle the guy and got hit at the same time.

It was just like a pure Josh Allen chaotic play. But I've had this theory where I think they're going to start unlocking him as a runner. And you kind of saw them do that. And they kind of had to do it just because nobody was throwing the ball well. like Mike White was having a very hard time throwing the body, especially early on. The conditions are really bad. So I'm happy to see that that is like a card they're willing to play. Like they're willing to break glass in case of emergency and run him.

And that gives me hope that that's going to happen and continue on into the playoffs. Yeah, no, me too. And I think it will. I think a lot of why they break that out when they need to is just a preservation thing for him. Right. And so even if I think they're more and more willing to make it a part of the game plan, not just a break in case of emergency thing when the season's on the line. But for them to reach their ceiling, he's got to find a way to be distributing to not just Knox, right?

Like it seems like they go to the tight end a lot when like digs can't get going or that connection just isn't working. Whatever is happening between Josh Allen and the receiving core, I think is a little bit concerning just given what they've done over the last month or so. But he can make up for some of that by running the ball more. That's for sure. Yeah, he provides them with such like a high floor just by being just by being this playmaking force that he is. I totally agree with you with the distributing thing, the quick game. We're seeing a lot of misses. And it's been since that elbow injury.

And if it's the elbow that's causing it and not just like a cold spell, then there might not be an answer this year for it. And that's the one concerning thing is that it might be injury base. And that's not something you could just like snap out of unless the elbow heals. And I don't know of throwing the football 50 times every week. And that's just during game days is going to be conducive to that elbow getting better. All right. Next winner.

My next winner is the Jacksonville Jaguars, 36 to 22 win over the Titans. This feels like a game that may have changed the direction of the division, a division that it looked like Tennessee was going to run away with. Now all of a sudden the Jaguars not only have a better point differential, which was the case coming into the week, there are only two games back with another game against Tennessee to play. So Tennessee doesn't have much of a margin for error to slip up. Obviously, Jacksonville will have to win out to make this a potential division race,

but I mean, it doesn't matter how the season ends because Trevor Lawrence is becoming the guy that Jacksonville needed him to become. And we're seeing this play out. It's been what, like a month now he had the Detroit game, which was obviously disjointed and it was broken up by a toe injury. But that's like three out of four games where Trevor Lawrence has looked like not only a top 10 quarterback, arguably a top five quarterback. And as long as he keeps playing like this, this is a success for the Jaguars no matter how the season ends. but like it does kind of hurt looking back at those games that they felt like they gave away the Texans game the Colts game the Washington game week one they they were leading the fourth quarter I think they blew a nine point lead to another like it's this team should be winning the division easily right now and it shouldn't even be a question of who the better better team is because like on paper like the stats outside of it outside of the win loss column the Jaguars just looked like a better team than Tennessee tight Oh, now you're a stats guy. You're right, right, right.

Yeah, and I've, like, gotten rid of all the goodwill I've built up by, like, hyping up the Titans over the last month. Just threw it out the window. Yeah, they haven't lost three in a row since 2018. I think they probably still have enough of the inside track, but it's looking a little dicey over there. There's only so much a coaching staff can do when you're propping up a roster that is, is thin and not experience, and especially on offense, like, they just don't. don't have anything outside.

If the run game isn't working, they just don't have it. And like the run game was working today, but Tannahild, he turned over the ball at bad times. And the defense, like, we've seen this. That's two weeks in a row now where they've given up at least 36 points. And this was the strength of the team. So I think we're at the point where it's not like a question of can the Titans make a run in the playoffs?

I think the answer to that is clearly no, because we've seen them lose to two. We saw them lose to the Bengals and then we see them loose to a, a, Jaguar's team that's not even in the playoff race yet. But Trevor Lawrence, 30 to 42, 368 yards, three touchdowns. He had a touchdown running the ball where he's stiffed arm, a linebacker, or it might have been a defensive end. And then just the high level throws. He's stringing them together more consistently.

When this offense gets Calvin Ridley involved, I think it's a very high ceiling offense. And I can't wait for next year. I think the Jaguars are going to win at like 10 games and run away with this division. If things don't change another. I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm already looking towards the future. Trevor Lawrence is my MVP pick for next year. Oh my God.

I didn't see that much of this game, but what I did see, so you mentioned the high level throws, but it does seem like he's stringing together just the basic matriculate down the field stuff more consistently. Like Evan Ingram has a huge game, right? And he's becoming more and more useful to them as like a checkdown target or just, okay, if Lawrence gets flush out of the pocket,

who can you toss a little whatever too. And he goes, has 11 catches for 162 yards. Like that's not a game that I expected to happen for them. No. You know? And I think that's almost more valuable to see them do rather than here's the string of five highlight plays that are just like unreal quarterbacking. Because Trevor Lawrence has always done that stuff.

But he's not always like hitting the check. down and keeping a drive alive. And he hasn't thrown a pick since October 30th. It's been like a month and a half since he's thrown a pick. And that was such a big, that was such a big deal for that for him early on in the season where the mistakes breaking up those high level plays. And he's eliminated them from his game. Where was he in quarterback rankings last week?

11. I think he was 12th. I dropped him below. Very curious. He will be. Can't wait to see. He will be at least 11th. He will be at least 11th this week.

Maybe higher. All right. My next winner is with with some trepidation, the Cowboys, who beat the Texans, 27 to 23. And they should have lost this game. They absolutely lost the vast majority of this game. But five minutes and 34 seconds left. The Texans have first and goal at the Cowboys four.

They're leading by three. My guy, Peb Hamilton, calls one pass and then two handoffs to Rex Burkhead. A phrase I can't believe is a sentence that I said in the year 2022. They both get stopped for losses. On fourth down, Driscoll tries to run it in, gets stopped short. Dak and the Cowboys get the ball. They have to go 98 yards. Dak certainly had his fair share of issues this game.

He's been struggling with turning the ball over, which he'd already done twice at this point. He's thrown nine picks in eight games. But he executes a. perfect drive. 98 yards touchdown 11 plays takes two minutes and 39 seconds two absolutely ridiculous throws back to back for 18 yards each one goes to noah brown one goes to dalton shaltz um look they didn't play a good game but they played a really good three minutes and that is what it took to win the game i don't know how many points you get for doing that against the texans but given where we are in the season and the fact that they just, you know, need to keep stacking wins.

It counts. And these games happened. Like, we saw the bills loose to the Jaguars last year. Like, these games happen. So to be able to get a W, like, hey. On your worst day, if you're, if you're pulling a win out. And I think this is pretty close to the Cowboys' worst day. You get some credit for that.

I was going to call DAC this generation's Phil Rivers. But, like, the joke was always with Phil Rivers was he would have the game-winning drive and they would never happen. like they he would never complete it. Dak actually completed this. Maybe he's like he's rejecting his, his fate to be this generation's fill of rivers. I think they were just,

I think they were just playing the Texans who executed. That's a good point. All time choke job. But look, still counts. Still counts. Next loser. The Seattle Seahawks. They lost my Carolina Panthers,

who I'm claiming now, who are going to win NFC South. They lose 30 to 24. They are now 0 and 4 against the worst division in football. They lost every single game. They've played against the NFC South, which is like a missed opportunity for this team. Yes. I didn't realize that until you said that that that should be I love the Seahawks.

That should be grounds for expulsion from the league. Yeah, there's seven and two against everybody else. So like I don't know if this team's going to make the playoffs. It looked like a lock even like two weeks ago. And now all of a sudden they're in danger. lose, like, not only have they lost, what is it, three in a row now, two in a row, they're seven and six and they have a brutal schedule down the stretch. They play the 49ers next week, which I think has a potential to get ugly because it got

ugly the last time they played it. They could be seven and seven a week from now. And if that's the case, like, and they miss the playoffs, it's going to feel like a disappointment, even though coming into the season, if you told every Seahawks fan, you're going to be seven and six after 13 games. I think everyone would take it. But it hasn't looked good over the last. last month and Pete Carroll today, one of the most cowardly puns I've ever seen. They were down

10 points with about six minutes left. They couldn't stop the Panthers on the ground all game long. Chuba Hubbard had one touchdown. He had 14 carries for 74 yards. Dante Foreman had another 74 yards. They couldn't stop him. 223 total for the Panthers. Yeah. And they had one. I think they averts like 0.3 EPA per rush. Like something crazy, something historically good. So they punt it back to that team that they can't stop on the ground. They're down 10 with. six minutes left in one timeout. They don't get the, they get the ball back eventually. I think it was with under two minutes.

They go down and score onside kick with 15 seconds left. That's why you don't punt the ball when you're down by two scores with under seven minutes left in the fourth quarter. Come on Pete. The great irony is on the touchdown drive, they had to convert a fourth and eight. And they did it. Keep Gino on the field. Let Gino cook. And by the way, like I think people are going to use this game to kind of question Gino Smith,

because he threw two interceptions. I want to point out that one interception, he thought he had a free play, and he should have had a free play because the Panthers jumped off sides, but the rest didn't throw the flag. Also, he injured his throwing shoulder this week, and was on the injury report,

and it was clear that his throws didn't have the same zip they had over the last, the whole season, basically. So I'm willing to give Gino this one bad game. And by the way, his bad game, he went 21 for 364 yards and threw three touchdowns. not among his strongest performances of the season. Now that that speaks to what he's accomplished. But he didn't have a great game.

I think we can say that. No, it was a bad game. It was a bad game. Conditions were bad. Thank you. Thank you. I would like to point out as as Gino's PR guy. Stevens were bad.

He had a bad shoulder. No. No. He had a bad game. He had a bad game. Gino Smith had a bad game. It's okay. Wasn't terrible.

He had a bad game. It's fine. Maybe Gino Smith's not elite. we're moving on. Speaking of bad games, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, last loser, it's time to talk about the Brockett ship,

but this is an L for the books because they lose 35 to 7 to the 49ers and Brock Purdy. And this is an embarrassing loss. First of all, it was a very, it was potentially very costly loss because they are still in first place in the NFC South Bay game.

But the Panthers control their own destiny. because if the Panthers win out, they will own the tiebreaker over the Bucks and the Falcons. So in a way, I mean, I guess it's in their hands in the sense that they should just, because they play the Panthers, I think. So if they win that game, that is essentially what it'll come down to. But there's no, they have a do or die situation potentially on their hands if the Panthers take care of business. and there's no shame in losing in the 49ers,

but it's costly in terms of the playoffs, and this was just really embarrassing. Defense was totally exposed. The coaching is just abysmal. Everything they do defensively is about getting in third and long, getting their opponent, third and long, getting in advantageous positions. And trying to do that against Kyle Shanahan is just a way to get embarrassed.

No. And it doesn't matter if it's Brock Purdy. It does like he is going to move the chains. They're going to stay in positive down and distances. Brady got picked off twice, which didn't help. Drake Greenlaw asked him to sign one, which that was really funny. I'm surprised he did it though. I know.

He just did it. The guy like that doesn't shake hands with Nick Foles after the Super Bowl and like countless other quarterbacks, he signed that ball. Actually, so funny. He's done it before. Somebody other jets asked him to, like a rookie last year, I think. I forget who it was. It's the funniest thing to me.

This just shouldn't. They just, it, it's just a tough scene. You got Brady going back to his hometown, essentially. And Brock Purdy is putting on an absolute show. And they can barely manage to score a single touchdown. Passing of the torts? It's a tough scene. Game?

Did he pass? What is the goat quarterback? Rocks the goat now. Yeah. I mean, pretty good. You mentioned the thing about the downfield element that he's added for them, but he was a totally clean game manager, right? It doesn't take much in that offense.

Obviously, Debo got hurt. The news on that front, I think, is inconclusive, but seems positive-ish. as it's more likely to be a high ankle sprain, I think, is what Kyle Shanahan said the results were, although they were doing further tests as opposed to something being broken or torn or whatever. So, you know, not good to see Debo leave on a cart under any circumstances. They do, look, that McCaffrey trade, I think sort of looms in that conversation, right? Because they've got a lot of options if they need to get through it here without him.

hopefully they could get him back. It seemed like that news was not as bad as it could have been. And yeah, this offense just keeps chugging along. And as we talked about, two touchdown passes of 20 or more yards down field outside the numbers. First career start. As many as Jimmy has had over the last three seasons. So I don't want to get too carried away here, but they just have continued to, like,

they didn't have to change their offense. They actually got this other element. I don't know how much that lasts. But the big takeaway here for San Francisco is that they just didn't have to change what they were doing really at all. And then the takeaway for the bucks is just that they, they sort of got pounced. And like Brock Birdie brings one different element that Jimmy G.

never provides, which is like a willingness to create how that's going to, what that's going to result in is going to change week to week because he's not like create what. Right. He's not this like create like this. big armed, fast quarterback, but he is willing to get outside of the pocket and make plays and put stress on the defense in that way, which is something that Jimmy G was doing more often

this year, but I have never done in the past. Jimmy breaks the pocket sometimes. Now, that's exclusive. That's new. That's new. But I do think, like, in that way, when he's hitting those deep balls and when he is, like, making plays and not turning over the ball when he gets outside of the pocket, that raises the ceiling of this offense.

Now, I think putting Brock Purdy in it also lowers the floor dramatically, but he gives that element that they didn't have with Jimmy G. I don't know how this ends, but I'm not any less confident in this 49ers team now than I was before Jimmy G's injury. And it took this game, seeing this game for me to get to that point. But like, Purdy's good enough to run a Kyle Shanahan offense. Yeah. I would like. to see a little bit more just because sometimes there's a tough thing to explain, but there's a little bit of a boost that first time. This offense has so much in terms of playmaking ability that I feel like they can just sometimes make it look so good that it minimizes what the quarterback is doing. And Brock Brady was was creating for them.

I don't want to take anything away from that. I just I just want to see a slightly larger sample size because we've had moments with the Nick Mullins is of the world where they come in and it looks really good and then over a slightly larger sample size. It's just not quite the same. I do think though, to your point, if there's a weakness on this offense, it's interior offensive line. So there is something interesting where his willingness to move outside the pocket being slightly greater than Jimmy's, he might be able to overcompensate or compensate for that a little bit. better. So there's stuff, like, there's stuff to like. And maybe that has something to do with why the downfield passing might be something they can unlock a little bit more and continue

to with Brock. So we'll see. But certainly, look, if you're looking for an encouraging sign, they could not have had a better one. I don't think. Yeah. And that take is contingent on Debo Samuel returning and being healthy. It looks most likely like a high ankle sprain, which is a injury that can linger. And if it lingers into January, even like the first week, takes one loss to get eliminated. So that's a pretty big deal. Certainly better than, you know, breaking your leg or breaking your ankle or whatever, but not an insignificant injury, obviously. All right. I think that's it for winners and losers. Let's close with our non-headline section of the day. I have two two fun facts, anecdotes, trivia, et cetera for you, Steven. Are you ready?

I'm ready. The first is that the three longest sack streaks in the NFL all came to an end today. The 49ers, Buccaneers, and Cowboys all failed to get to the quarterback. The San Francisco Sack streak had been 39 consecutive games. Tampa's was 34. Cowboys was 24. They all ended today. Pop quiz.

Who do you think holds the longest running sack streak that's currently active now that those three have ended? Oh, that's a good question. I'm going to go with the Ravens. Going with Wink. Good. Good guess. They're pretty high up, but it's the Titans. Oh, that makes sense.

Mike Frable. Gamer. Good game planner. Another good game planner. The second thing for you, I'm essentially submitting this to the you don't know ball committee, which is you, Stephen. We were just talking about Brock Purdy.

our friend Kevin Clark tweeted a great chunk of a Matt Barrow's story in The Athletic about Brock Purdy, where he had, I think, a recruiting visit with Nick Sabin, who through his conversations with Sabin, Purdy felt like he really didn't know his game and didn't think that he'd actually watched the tape. You are the all-time ball-knower, but also assessor of who does and does not know ball. That's true. Nick Saban Nose ball

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Nick Saban nose ball I'm going to go out on the limit I'm going to go out on the limb and say he can evaluate quarterbacks because I really think I don't think his scouting report or at least the one that was told by Brock Bertie was all that far off but Brock Purdy really took offense to him

not being accurate. Brock Party was really upset this is a great story I guess Sabin had told him that his accuracy wasn't very good. And Brock Purdy was like, well, that's my best trait. So if you don't think that that's good. He said it was average. And Brock feels that he's of above average accuracy.

And therefore, Nick Saban doesn't know ball. But that's like the kind of confidence you need. And like maybe that confidence is the reason why he's willing to try to make plays and try to push the ball downfield in ways that Jimmy G. didn't do very often. Like, honestly, I think that confidence is a big reason.

and why we're talking about Brock Purdy in a way where he's adding something to the 49ers offense, which is like not something we've seen the other 49ers quarterbacks who have filled in for Jimmy G. too. Yeah. I'm into it. All right. Great stuff. Great stuff as always, Stephen. This has been the Ringer NFL Sunday recap show.

Thank you so much for listening. Sheal and Ben will be back on this feed tomorrow with extra point taken, diving further into today's games and reacting to Monday night football. ball. Thank you, as always, to Isaiah Blakely for production on this episode and to Connor Nevins and Arjuna Rangipal for additional production supervision.