The Ringer NFL Show - Week 14 Recap: The Steelers Drop Another, Jalen Hurts!, The Chiefs Are Inevitable, Winners and Losers

Episode Date: December 14, 2020

Kevin and Nora react to the Steelers’ second loss to a formidable Bills team (2:00) and Jalen Hurts proving himself as a starting quarterback in an Eagles victory over the Saints (17:00) before naming their winners and losers of Week 14 (30:00), answering listeners’ questions (1:13:00), and picking their clickbait headlines of the week (1:18:00). Hosts: Kevin Clark and Nora Princiotti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It is the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark, great show today. We talked about the Steelers, Ben Rothesberger just told ESPN. He's, quote, not very good. The NFC leading Green Bay Packers and the surging Washington football team and much more. Today's episode of the Ringer NFL show and the Ringer podcast Network is brought to you by State Farm. Getting great car and home insurance from State Farm at a surprisingly great rate. That's like drafting a player that becomes an all pro, the real deal.

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Norfranciati, a lot of missed kicks today. A lot of missed kicks. There was a portion of today that felt like it was missed kicks, pick sixes, and then we got into a place

where it was just everybody was onside kicking all of a sudden. This is separate from the miskicks thing, but I will say this is that I was talking to some people in the league at the end of last week

and they were saying that there's going to be a little bit of maybe the phrase of senioritis around the league where people are just kind of over, people who are not contention are just from a mental standpoint are just kind of done with everything

because it's been such a grueling season and kind of what we talked about the last couple weeks where you can't even bond with the guy next to you in the locker. Like, you can't even have meals, all that stuff. And so it's just, it's a different season. I think that there's people who are just like,

let's just get me the heck out of here. I can see some burnout happening. I'm hearing some things. Here's some things. All right. What a Sunday. Let's get to the football. And what we just saw, Bill's 26, Steelers, 15.

The third straight weird game for the Steelers. This is the second straight loss. ESPN's Burke Pryor said it feels like it's a third straight loss because of how weird that Ravens game was in midweek a few weeks ago. It definitely felt off. They lost blood deprae for the season, et cetera, et cetera. A lot here. Alex Cizorra, who covers the team, I was reading him a couple minutes ago, and he said,

this is an unsustainable offense. And even in a year where everything is inconsistent, it's the same issues for Pittsburgh over and over again, little vertical game, no running game, obviously. One of 10 on third down, they have the Bengals next, so they'll fix this. but in a year where I think we just spent the last, I don't know, 11 weeks talking about whether the Steelers were a legitimate threat to the Chiefs. I wonder if we were overlooking the bills the whole time. They made what can only be called a statement on Sunday night in a national game.

I think when I look at this game, I felt good about the bills coming into this game. I still feel good about the bills. I felt okay about the Steelers coming into this game. I feel worse coming out of it. Your takeaway, Nora. Well, there's some seismic stuff. Right? Because the Steelers, who had a good shot a couple weeks ago of having the number one seat in the AFC seems like that's no longer they're in the driver's seat for that.

On the bill side of things, the bills have won the AFC East that has belonged to the Patriots for over a decade and the better part of two decades. They haven't won it. They've guaranteed the Patriots will not win it. The Patriot streak is over. Right. So, okay. So I'm, I guess the dolphins could still figure it out or something. But it does seem like the bills are the team you would want to be there.

Having said that, the Patriots are mathematically eliminated, but I'm not counting them out yet. You can't count them out. It's not done. You can't count them out at the division. Anyway, go. So I just, that's a part of this, right? This is a significant moment. It's funny because when you watch the bills, I think the thing that's so impressive about them is that there's just no clear way to beat them.

because, okay, so say you're a defense that plays a lot of zone, how about some Cole Beasley for you? Yeah. Say you want a man up on everybody on the outside. Oh, hello, it's Stefan Diggs. Nice to meet you. Let's go. And then Allen's athleticism can give them some extra looks

and some numbers advantages against defensive fronts. And they just have, plus Brian Dable being as smart of a play caller and coordinator as it seems like, you know, he's up there in the top three, five, whatever you want to say. But someone who's really just in rhythm with the quarterback, they have so many different ways that as long as Alan is not like blacking out and doing crazy stuff, there is no obvious weakness. This is how you would want to attack the bills. And the Steelers were missing a number of players on defense.

And it kind of feels like they're dropping like. flies for them. So that's a little bit concerning. But the major concern being the offense is kind of the opposite, right? Because I think as the year has gone on and there's more tape on them, just being so reliant on the quick short game that defenses are adjusting more and more and just saying like, you know what, we're not going to give that to you and we're just going to focus on that and try to beat us vertically.

And we saw that when Ben tries to do that, I mean, he's just throwing picks. so it's one-dimensional. And I think when you see what's still a very good, even though they have a lot of injuries, so a very good Steelers defense have some trouble with the bills, it's because they're not one-dimensional. And I felt like that was what was so telling about this game was just that it could have implications down the line

because of that fact. I feel like it's twofold because now they're not going to get the number one seed, but now I also know they're not as, as the Chiefs because that was very much a debate three weeks ago. And listen, maybe part of this is the schedule. Part of this is all year they've had to switch their buy around. And they've had to have short weeks and long weeks. They've had to play on a Wednesday afternoon.

Like, this has not been easy for them. And I can't sit here and do the, well, this team had this and this, you know, this team had this consideration. I can't do that. And then say, oh, by the way, the Steelers are awful and they only have themselves to blame. I can't do that. This all ties together.

in 2020. But with Rothesburg, Jason Lockerford reported they're serious concern with his knee injury. And you know, Ben is the type of guy who does move. He moves in a peculiar way, but he does move. You know, we're going to get a little later to Kyla Murray

and Daniel Jones. They played today. Both those guys have been banged up this year. And, you know, listen, we can see here and make fun of Daniel Jones, and we will make fun of Daniel Jones a little bit later. But he didn't have his mobility today, and that just takes a dimension away. And with Rathesberger, you saw him missing gimmee throws all all night you saw him throw that awful pick six just an awful

decision the passes are bad and there's just obviously some of that is him being hurt some of that is him being perpetually hurt he's been banged up for 10 years and Ryan chaiseer was on our midseason pot a couple of weeks ago and he was just like you don't even when you look at ben rathasperger when you're on the same team with him you don't know like what's going on with him he just looks like in a perpetual state of banged up and so sometimes this is just him making bad to sometimes it's him being banged up. And I think that we're, it's a little bit of both right now. And so I think that from the Steelers end of this, you know, listen, the Bud Dupre

injury was bad. Alex Highsmith was banged up tonight. That could be bad. The depth we thought they had in September, that, that starts to erode at some point. And I start to worry about that. And I, I don't know. Right now it looks like the bills are the second best team in the UFC. If the bills were an NFC team,

they would be far in a way the Super Bowl favorite or the favorite in that conference, okay, because they're a complete team. Chris Collins was on this podcast last week, and I was surprised. I said,

is there anybody outside of the chiefs you would bet money on to make the Super Bowl? And he singled out the bills and he singled out the defense and all that stuff. And I love Stefan Diggs. I thought that move was really good at the time.

I think it's better every time he plays. You know, you mentioned the Cole Beasley thing. What I think is, he's interesting, Collinsworth mentions on the broadcast, is he compared it to Tom Brady having the underneath kind of escape patch with Beasley. And I think that's fascinating because, listen, Cole Beasley, I don't necessarily want to get into comparing him to West Walker, Julian Adam, or whomever, but there is something there, as Collinsworth talked about, where there's always

going to be someone open, and then you can also take the shots down the field. Diggs was murdering the Steelers on Slant Rouse tonight, murdering him. Slant King Slant King Stefan Diggs But this offense It works in such an interesting way And you know

Josh Allen Has improved his completion percentage Every single year significantly And part of that is Josh Allen getting better Part of that is him understanding What throws to make And how to make less just catastrophic mistakes But part of that is the fact that this offense

And Brian Dable and all this stuff they know what to do with him. And Brandon Bean just got an extension this week. And there's a reason for that. I mean, I think it was a five-year extension. Might as well give him 10 years. Because Brandon Bean knows exactly what this team needs and how to do it. And I think that early in his tenure, I was a little bit early on Brandon Bean,

kind of on the ground floor, bought some Brandon Bean stack early. And I think you're starting to see why he was so well thought of. Because this digs trade, it just keeps aging better. The Beasley signing just keeps aging better. And I don't know. I mean, I think what we saw tonight, I think this is the bottom line. What we saw tonight is real. The bills are better than the Steelers.

And if they play in the second round of the playoffs, we're going to see this again as long as these two teams are vaguely in the same shape they are now. I think that's true. Of course, there's Alan is, and I really love Josh Allen, but he is a variable quarterback. But in some ways, that is as likely to make them able to go toe to toe with the chiefs. on a one game sample size as it is, like if I'm going to say,

yes, I think that's true, but just build in that this is a variable quarterback, they could get matched up with the Steelers. And if he has an off day, then that's a different story. But the thing is, is that if he has a super on day, then they are the type of team

that could be complete enough, but also have the talent and capability on offense to actually be competitive in that, which is really great for us, because I feel like I spend a lot of time these days looking around the league and just going like, yeah, but the Chiefs. And that's true.

Like, that's just what we, that's what is in front of our eyes and that's fine. But one of the reasons I think the city of Buffalo has responded to Josh Allen in the way that they have is because he's a hope inspirer, right? Like, even when he wasn't completing a lot, when his completion percentage was terrible and he was just making blackout silly plays

and, you know, the lateral in the playoffs against the Texans, like all of that stuff, that can be true. But if you are, you know, Bill's fan X who's watched them struggle in that division for however long, a quarterback like Josh Allen is always going to be super compelling to you because you're going to look at him and go, if just the top group of plays were the majority, this person is capable of beating. the Patriots, the Chief, like, whatever,

in a way that maybe, like, Tarad Taylor was never going to sort of make you feel that way, even when Tarad Taylor was putting in, like, individual complete seasons that were better than early Josh Allen. And that's a really nice thing to have in the NFL this year because there is both so much variability, but also just the factor of the Chiefs. And, like, we don't want to feel like we know exactly who's going to win the Super Bowl,

today. And it's just, it's fun to have them in the mix. I've really enjoyed watching them and I think they're so, so well constructed. And Bean had to be really patient in doing that, right? Like, he wanted to trade for Stefan Diggs last year, like not last off season, but midseason and then Minnesota wouldn't let him. So having those things not all happen immediately when they wanted to, but having a plan for the team that they wanted to build and sticking with it and also trusting that the quarterback who didn't have the most polished sort of upbringing as a player. Like he wasn't in private quarterback coaching sessions when he was six years old and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like seeing that and saying, no, I think he might take a little bit longer to develop,

but he's capable of this. Like, I don't know that that's going to work out for every team that does it, but it's really worked out for them. So their plan is really working. I'm going to get into the scheme stuff or the team. building stuff more in the midweek show week. But I just want to say that, you know, with the bills, this is sustainable and this is this is long term. This is not, I mean, when you talk about Bean, you talk about McDermott, this is not, you know, a two-year run or whatever. And, you know,

whether or not Josh Allen has the ceiling to win them a Super Bowl or multiple Super Bowl, I know that's separate conversation, but they're going to be good and competitive and a hardout for as long as being a McDermen are there. And I even like two years ago, I remember talking to McDermott. And he was telling me one of the things they do, they do like 360 reviews like an office would, right? And like we do, I think. And they literally want the players to critique the coaches and all that stuff.

And it's just like 90% of locker room and coaching and all that stuff from February until September when the game starts. There's a whole lot of time in an NFL season where it's just vibes and chemistry. And they've figured that part out. And they certainly have the same. scheme part down. And they certainly have the roster part down. And so I just, I don't know where the flaws are in this organization. And that's why I just, I just think that they're set up for a nice run. Let me ask you one question, and it's a very big question, are the bills the second best

team in football? So are we identifying anything about Drew Breeze's health when we have this conversation? We're talking about December 14th. Reality, everything that we know. We're not doing like an Avengers thing. We're not just going to. Yes, yes, I think they are. And they are too. There's an Aaron Rogers God mode sort of backdoor question mark that I'm feeling. But no, I think they're a complete team. They're well coached.

They're smart. Yes. I think the Packers are good as hell. And I think the Packers are probably going to make the Super Bowl. Maybe there's a recency bias. But the Bills just put it to a team that was undefeated a week ago. I would love to see the Bills play the Packers. In the Super Bowl?

Well, sure. just anywhere, meet at the field at midnight. By the way, the bills have the Broncos Patriots and Dolphins the rest of the way, so they have one loseable game.

Yeah. I feel like there have been a lot of takes issued about what it looks like to people when Ben Rathusberger moves around. I think Danny Kelly said it looks like he's someone

jaywalking. Danny Kelly, king of the like, analyzing a gate and how someone moves. What it is to me is, do you ever, I don't mean to ask a personal question, but like, you know, if you have,

if you have to walk with pants around your ankles, like you ever misplace something in the bathroom or whatever, Kevin's so mad at me for going down this? No, no, I'm not mad at you. But that's what he looks like. What I'm trying to signal to you is that I'm not joining in on this point. This is all you. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine.

I'm happy to do it by myself. Yeah. But there is a waddle people. Sure. Individual humans. We don't have to identify who they are. do if you're like, you forget to take your shoes off

before you take your fans off. Yeah. Oh, God, I need to end this. But that is what it looks like to me when Ben Rothesberger, like, has to trot around a little bit. I didn't think you needed it in that. He could have kept going there.

You're so unhelpful. I gave up on that play. I was like a wide receiver on a run play. I was just looking at it. I wanted you to help me block downfield for me, unwilling. I was so confused by where, you were going. I could not. I could not have thrown a block there. But that is exactly what it looks

like when he runs. You know about the Eagles? Sure, let's talk about the Eagles. Really, anything else. Jalen Hertz, competent quarterback. Nora, what'd you think? Well, I thought that Jalen Hertz was a competent quarterback, right? That's kind of, I don't mean to be facetious in repeating what you just said. It's so noticeable. It's so noticeable in Philadelphia. It's so startling. And it's also, that is kind of the be-all and end-all of it, right? Because it is so starkly different from what we had been watching with Carson Wentz. But it also is kind of the entire meaning of it, right? So if we back up, Jalen Hertz in his first start after coming in last week in relief for Carson Wentz,

the Eagles went and beat the Saints 24-21. The Saints, of course, quarterbacked by Teesham Hill. So we had quite the interesting quarterback matchup in this one. We no longer, by the way, put quarterback in here. huge quotation marks because he's now making throws. For the first couple of weeks, it was quarterback, Taysam Hill, and now it's quarterback, Taysam Hill. Anyway, we've removed the asterisk.

We've removed the asterisk from his position. So, obviously, Hertz has to start the rest of the way for the Eagles. This is, it's, it's clearly, I mean, he played much better than we'd seen once playing this year. He was a running threat, which I think just, it changes the math, right, of how the Saints defense, which is so good, has to think about. defending the Eagles and they were in such a place in Philly that the vibe check element of this also I feel like is kind of relevant like clearly they're going in a better just in a better place with Hertz

that doesn't solve any of their long-term problems right so what we get from today is okay the Eagles might be less painful to watch and potentially they could climb back in we'll talk about Washington later. The NFCs continues to be a mess, but a slightly more interesting mess than it was at the beginning of the season. But I'm all for more competent quarterbacking, so we can leave the future to the future. Sure. So Doug Peterson, after the game, declined to name Jillen Hart's a starter for next week against Arizona. I have a lot of thoughts here. Number one is that Doug Peterson is now 11 and 3 in his career when he has a bit of. backup quarterback. He won a Super Bowl in one of those things. He won another

playoff game in another year. And I don't know what that is. Maybe he's just really adaptable. Maybe it's the thing we've talked about where he's really good at just figuring out what somebody's good at in a very stripped down way with Nick Foles. And game planning in one week with Jalen Hertz is a guy who wasn't taking a lot of snaps with the ones until very recently. And his ability to win with backup quarterback is really impressive. And to beat another guy, Sean Payton, who's also really good with backup quarterbacks. It's a fascinating chess match. Now, I think that I think way worse of Carson Wentz right now

and how he was playing just seeing the whole buzzword was spark. That was it. It was maybe there's a spark here. And Doug Peterson after the game said the spark he was looking

for he got. I don't know what the definition of spark is. I guess you know it when he see it. It's like the Supreme Court definition, right? And Wentz put no pressure

on defense. Anybody who watched the Eagles this year saw that. And the pocket would collapse. He wouldn't be able to do anything and things got worse from there.

He had no shot. Eagles led the NFL in plays where nothing was going to happen and then nothing happened. They led the league in that. Nobody's even close, okay? Not even the Jets. There's a league with the Jets and Carson Wentz was the worst looking thing on football field on a lot of Sundays, okay? And with Jalen Hertz, it was just different.

And I don't, he's not going to be the megastar this year. But I just saw defenses that respected the fact that he had 10-6 rushing yards in this game. Most of his throws and his success were in the pocket, but within 10 yards. I was looking at some of the passing charts earlier today. And he didn't have a ton of success on the intermediate throws. That's fine. But you look at a throw run like the Miles Sanders run, the long one.

I was looking at some of the dots earlier just where everybody was in that play. And defenses respected Jalen Hertz. And they were playing. Defenses knew for the first time they were going against a competent NFL offense. And I think whatever a spark is, they got it. and Miles Sanders played really well. And he has, I think, three touchdowns over 70 yards this year. And the fact, it all comes since October 11, so he's rounding into shape.

And listen, to score 20, the whole thing about Jalen Hertz this week was that he was going against the Saints team that was supposed to destroy him and give him a baptism by fire and all the stuff, he scored 24 points. And this is, I can't believe this, okay? Their 20-point barrier was crossed today for the first time since November 1st. And in that game, the offense only scored 15 points, which means this is the first time they've scored, the offense has scored 20 points since October 18.

I don't even remember October. I don't know what happened in October. But the fact that an NFL franchise that we thought had a lot of talent, I know they were injury riddled and all that stuff, couldn't reach, an offense couldn't reach the 20 point mark is unbelievable to me. There's confidence now. A lot of stuff flows through that.

Nora, we saw the Washington football team make a little run here the last couple of weeks. They might be too far ahead in the, division, but can this Eagles team at least look good for the rest of the year? I could see them keeping it going. I think the, I would have to check, as we often say, it becomes a math problem. And I think they, my understanding that they would feel a little bit of that territory where it's a tough outlook, but the Eagles hadn't been scoring.

Also, the Saints hadn't allowed more than 16 points since week eight. So there will be ways, you know, now he's on film. So defenses will be able to look at how hurts. played and try to make some adjustments. But when you have him, he went 17 for 30 through 167 yards in a touchdown, ran for 106 yards. Sanders also had 100 rushing yards. I don't know that there will be incredibly obvious answers from that when defenses look at them and say, okay, what's the sort of quick in the next few weeks way that we figure out

how to defend this new Eagles offense. So I don't think that they're going to go, you know, they're not going to become the Packers here. But I also don't think that it's going to be the type of thing where next week they go out and it's like, oh, just kidding. That's first start luck and nobody's seen you and just a total mystery because I think it did seem like they had a smart game plan. They didn't ask him to do too much, but they also just leaned on the strengths. And they had not been able to do that with their starting quarterback, which is troubling to say the least. I also found, so Peterson wouldn't say that wouldn't confirm Harts as the starter for next week, but it also seemed like he was, and I didn't listen to it, I just saw quotes, but it seemed like he was going out of his way to kind of not pump Hertz up.

He said it took everybody in uniform to win this game, not just one guy, it takes a village to get the stuff done, Jalen was part of it, but it took a team effort. And Zach Berman, who covers the Eagles, said that it sounded. like he was going out of his way to just not single hurts out. And that's reading T leaves, but the Went stuff is getting weird. It's getting really, really weird with both that 11 and 3 record

with non-Carsen Wens quarterbacks and just with the tone of everything. Like, either Carson Wens actually can't deal with this situation, or the Eagles seem to think that he can't. And I don't really know which one of those is worse. Like, neither one is good. Right. That's a great point.

And, you know, Eleanor Parks, who covers the team, talked about this a little bit tonight. But one of the things, and a couple of B-writers made the point as well, but the play calling looks a lot better when Jalen Hertz is able to just do things on the field, as opposed to Carson Wentz, where there's just hopelessness. And I think the same can be set at the offensive line, where they've looked awful for large stretches of the season because Wentz just fumbling around and wasting time back there, and Jalen Hartz is not doing that. And so I think, I don't think that Hertz is some sort of Mahomesian problem solver. I'm just saying competence went a long way in explaining what's going on with that team and really just getting a better evaluation of that team. I think that the Eagles are going to feel much better looking at Jalen Hertz these next three weeks and understanding just who's good and who's not. Because I think the Wendz thing was just an energy suck and there was just nothing there. I think that this is a weird thing to say, but I mean, I just think that Wence, Wence was like the anti-Mohombs, right?

He was the exact opposite. He was a bizarre world Mahomes. Mahomes solved every problem. and one's created every problem. Okay. And Jalen Hertz is somewhere in the huge gap between those two players, but he's there. And I think that there's just something there.

Now, the Eagles, again, we go about that spark thing. I don't think quarterback play has anything to do with the defense, but I will say that the Eagles defense played really well today. The pass rush generated 17 pressures on Taysam Hill. That was the second highest pressure rate in the Saints have given up since 2016. Hargrave, Barnett, Josh Schwett, all had four plus pressures according next-gen stats. The Eagles played a good game.

And this says a lot about the Saints. I don't, listen, to be, what, 8-0 in the last two years without Drew Breeze, as Peyton was, that's impressive. At some point, they were going to play a competent team, and that was going to come undone. And Taysam Hill, that Emmanuel Sanders deep ball was very pretty. I'm happy for him to have taken these strides he has the last two weeks, three weeks, what everyone would call it, as far as a passer goes, that that went 47 yards in the air. But I just think that this team needs Drew Brie's back.

And the fact they're probably not going to get the buy now, we're going to get to the Packers in a little bit and talk about what that means. I think that there's, I don't know. I don't know how I came away thinking from the Saints. What was your Saints takeaway today? Well, I laughed when I saw, I think there was a Next Gen Stats tweet of that throw,

and it was an improbable completion. I think they said it had maybe a 24% chance. of getting completed. And I saw it, and it made me laugh out loud just looking at my screen because I thought, it's a little more improbable than that

if we consider the greater context of how we got here. It's an improbable throw. It's an improbable start and improbable everything. Hill does, by the way, have 10 fumbles in 13 games, very Daniel Jones-esque pace.

Oh, boy. But, yeah, no, happy for Taysam and all of his accomplishments. I will actually go a little bit further than you, and of course, no, like, Spark quarterback Spark does not contribute

to defense. But the Eagles, they lost like three defensive backs during this game. They were playing with the backups to backups by the end of this thing against some really good skill players.

And counterfactual, I have no idea if this is true. But it seems like the type of thing that a couple weeks ago, just one thing goes wrong for this team and it snowballs and everything's bad and everybody's down and everything's a disaster. And this time it wasn't.

And no, there's no way for me to prove that has anything to do with Jalen Hertz. But I don't know. It doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel impossible. Yeah, I will say this. So we had a reader question into us. I just want to share it here because we're not going to get to it. It's Ned Baum, who asked, should Doug Peterson just sign 20 quarterbacks and continually bench every single one of them?

And they get the QB boost on a weekly basis. It's not a bad idea. Howie thinks outside the box. That's all I'm saying. When you said that the image that popped into my mind was that I Love Lucy episode where they make too much, is it candy? Yeah. And they're like pulling it off the conveyor belt. That's it.

I know it. It's just Doug Peterson like pulling quarterbacks. Bottom line is the Saints probably should have won this game. But it's two weird quarterbacks. It's the weirdest season of all time, all that stuff. I'm willing to give the Saints a pass for one bad week. Everybody's had some awful weeks. And if this is the worst the Saints can look in.

December of 2020, they're doing okay. Okay, I'm not ready to freak out on anybody. That's all. Yeah, well, and they got torn up on the ground and they have a good, they have a good run defense. Like, I think they entered this game number two there. That's pretty well established. I would expect that to bounce back.

Is there a Drew Brees update? I keep seeing he's close. Yeah. But he's also, he also broke 13 ribs and then like the next day, they were like, well, he's close. Right. I don't know, man. The last thing I saw was Adam Schaeftor reporting that they weren't going

to quote rush him back for the Chiefs game. There's no timetable. And my immediate reaction was there's situations where it would qualify to me as rushing someone back from a collapsed lung and 12 broken ribs that still do not include the Chiefs game. So I don't know that those are mutually exclusive, but. So Breeze himself said he wanted to be back for this game on Sunday. Keeping in mind that anybody playing within a decade of breaking half their ribs is rushing them back. But I don't know.

For these sorts of injuries, until I get a definitive timetable, I'm always a little bit leery. That's all. Yeah, I would agree with that. Let's get to the winners and losers. We'll start with Kansas City Chiefs 33, Miami Dolphins 27. You could make the argument that both teams won this game. And it's funny to me because I talked to some of the people down in Miami the last couple of days. And I was talking about how far they've come and all this stuff.

And the vibe down there was that they hadn't accomplished anything. And it's really interesting to me because I think that there are teams that buy into their immediate success more than others. And I don't get that vibe in Miami right now because I feel like their whole thing was they're trying to build the foundations. That was what last year was. They're trying to build foundations and make this sustainable. Okay. And they will. And so coming into this game, I thought that was a very interesting attitude when I was talking to those folks down there.

but they come up short against the chiefs. This was a very interesting game. Patrick Mahomes throws three interceptions. He looks mortal. He's the first time he's thrown a non-raiders interception this year. Travis Kelsey was the star of the game. And he's about to, I saw him from Sam McDowell. That's interesting.

He's three games shy of becoming the first time in history to lead the league in yards. He has 1,250 yards. And there's a lot of heroes in this game. Kelsey, Tyree Kill, Clyde Edwards-Hillera's back. You know, Hardman has the return touchdown. I mean, this was a chief's win. And there's a lot that goes along with that.

Before I dive into that further, Nora, what was your takeaway? Just that this game reinforced how unbelievably hard it is to beat Kansas City. I mean, Mahomes turned it over three times. He took a 30-yard sack. The Miami defense actually, I think, was really good in this game,

except for when they gave up, like, three touchdowns in three minutes. which in any other situation, that sentence would be sarcastic, but I completely mean it. Because the Chief's team speed is so deadly. And I don't know what you say other than, I don't know, get faster at running.

Yeah. Get on a car. Be like that woman who cheated in the marathon by riding the bus. This is where we are with the Chiefs at this point. It's just inevitable. And... Rosie Ruiz is your name, right? Yes, yes, Rosie Ruiz.

So Pola Rosie, Rosie, that's how I would attack the Chiefs. Isn't that a reference from like 1985? Yeah. Shouldn't we as millennials or Gen Z or whatever we are? Shouldn't we have more current references? Well, so no. We need to work on that. That's our homework for this week.

Well, but I will push back on that. You get a lot of references for anecdotes like that from your parents. And I'm a runner. My dad is a runner. I'm sure my dad told me that story. Okay. I get it. It's a running reference. It's a running reference. So no one's Rosie Ruizing here. Okay, the dolphins are not taking any shortcuts.

They're running the marathon. I look at this and I'm going to use it as a jumping off point to why the chiefs are good. Because I've said this a million times, but nobody wins big in the NFL because they drafted a good quarterback or a great quarterback. They win because they drafted a great quarterback. He's as the baseline and figured out what to do next. that's what the chiefs have done. They built an infrastructure. They know exactly the players that need to be around Patrick Mahomes, whether they've been

there before, like Travis Kelsey, or whether they come in afterwards. And I've talked to Brad Beach about this a lot. And he knows exactly what receivers need to be around Patrick Mahomes and the speed that's needed and the route running and the improvisation and all that stuff. But when you throw three interceptions and you're down at one point of the game, 10 points, and again, it seems inevitable, then this is. this is why you win because you have that depth and you have stars around you who can carry the lower person off game. Patrick Holmes took a 30-yard sack in this game. This was not a normal

Mahomes game. Okay. And I don't want to be the guy who's saying Travis Kelsey is overlooked because I just saw it the other day. He's a 99 and Madden out. Like everyone knows Kelsey's a superstar. He should be in the conversation for offensive player of the year. That's probably a midweek thing, but he really should be in the conversation. I don't know if there can be serious momentum when it's someone who plays with Patrick Mahomes and all that stuff and how you separate, how you separate the two, but he should be in that conversation. And when I think about Kelsey,

I was actually looking at this this week, even against cornerbacks in the Denver game, I saw this, against cornerbacks when he's matched up against them, he gets really good numbers. And this is not him. There is a matchup element always with tight ends, but he's also amazing at just going up against whoever they throw at him.

This is not just some, oh, we got the slow linebacker now we're going to get a 70-year touchdown. That ain't it. Kelsey can go against anybody in the league and win. So I just think that when Mahomes is off a little bit and he's got guys around him that can carry it, it's, that's it's it's, that's the chiefs. And that's why they're impossible to beat in any meaningful way.

That's why even when you have a 10-point lead, it doesn't matter. Field D8's had this and I'm just stunned by. And I think we knew the numbers because last year they were the first team in history, obviously to erase three double-digit point differentials in the playoffs. but since start of 2019, the chiefs are now 8 and 1 when falling behind by 10 points or more. The rest of the NFL

is 68, 356 and 1. So the winning percentage difference. The chiefs are 0.888. They win 88% of their games when they're down by 10. The NFL is 0.160. So they win 16% of their games. It's worse.

This is not normal. This is not normal to go down 10 points and say, time to get serious. Now, the Chief's defense did not. I mean, obviously, Chris Jones had the safety and all that stuff, but they let them back in the game.

This was a little closer than it should be once the Chiefs got into Chiefs mode. Xavier and Howard and Jerome Baker who had the 30-yard stack. There were some nice parts today. Tua looked really good. He took a huge step forward. I saw some of the columnists this week of Miami

were talking about how just the next step for the dolphins is weapons, and I think we saw that a little bit today. And the line. And the line. But I think once they get those pieces around two of this team, the sky's the limit. I just think we saw the difference between a wildcard AFC team and the best team in the AFC. That's all.

Yeah, I think that's true. I just, I think they need offensive line help just because Kansas City's pass rush can be kind of up and down. But when they were stenting and doing stuff like that, it seemed like Miami was having trouble with it. That's how that sack in the end zone for Tua happened. So there's, you know, they have a few places where they need to work on it, but they have a lot of resources and they also have time. So I don't think that losing a game like this really changes all that much about where they are, their trajectory.

But with Kansas City, just one more thing on Kelsey, I think you're, it's odd to me and I won't do the we don't, we overlook Travis Kelsey thing either. But I do think that there's this strange pejorative element to calling. Yeah, I'm totally doing it. I'm just going to say that I'm not doing it. We've both been doing it. We've both been doing. We don't talk enough about Travis Kelsey. Just liars. We just come on this podcast every week and lie to people. I think we have to get rid of the, well, he's really just a big receiver thing about a lot of modern tight ends. You know what's a really valuable player to have a really big receiver who's really good?

A really big receiver. Like receiver production numbers, efficiency numbers are still like your EPA, for receivers is generally going to be higher than tight ends. So, like, that argument doesn't work on either side, really. And they can get other people to block if there's a play where they don't. Like, this is just not something that's holding the chiefs back, and I'm a little bit tired of that argument. I remember Kellynne Winslow,

years ago, talking about how everybody, when you catch a lot of passes at tight end, everyone just makes up things about you, about your style of play. and we see that with tight ends where say, oh, they're not physical or they're not blockers or whatever. Remember, I mean, the weird news cycle where people had to point out that George Kittle was actually good at blocking.

I mean, that's Travis Kelsey, too. I'm like, these guys are complete tight ends who dominate the game. And I just think that there's, I think Kelsey is now in the same way Kittle did last year. And Kittle, you know, he's better after they catch and all that stuff. But Travis Kelsey is as good as anybody at the tight end position. I love the guy. Mahomes, by the way, no longer.

has as after Sunday no longer has the best touchdown interception ratio in the single season of all time. Do you think like do you make the move to Henny? Do you think? You got to consider it. You got to consider it. You really have to, you have to give it some thought. I would maybe sleep on it.

You know, he won't a Super Bowl. It's like Doug Peterson. It's like Doug Peterson. You don't want to make the decision right now. 33 touchdowns, five interceptions. I think, I think they're going to live. All right. Next up, Packers. Big winner. I mean, so when we say winner,

we mean winner in the sort of NFL seating arena. Beating the Lions in and of itself is not enough to get you in this winning conversation, but they beat the Detroit Lions in a sometimes uncomfortably close game. But more importantly, with the Saints loss,

they have now rocketed to the top seed in the NFC. And listen, this is a year where home field may not matter. Coming into this week, teams were, I think it was 95 and 95, home and away, the splits, so it's dead even. And I don't know what home field means, but I know you want it. And I know you want that by.

And so right now the Packers have it. They have the tiebreaker with New Orleans. It looks like they're going to be able to do it. Big picture with the Packers, what do you think? Well, we're going to get more. I feel like we're going to get MVP movement and a lot of Rogers talk this week. Yes. That feels like it's going to be a lot of our week. agree. Not a lot. I mean, they just, they're becoming more consistent, I think,

but this is the same Packers team. I think we've been watching for most of the year. Devante Adams is just incredible. Like, that was how I felt watching this game more than anything else.

Like, we were seeing things that we've already seen, but he just, the way that he separates is so incredible to watch. And the thing that's wonderful about it is that,

as far as they go the playoffs, it's not a, I can't look at all that many defenses, except for some of the teams that have really good linebackers. Like, I think the Bucks is actually was an interesting matchup for them. I think those are going to be the ones that can give them trouble, but in general, like, it just doesn't matter who you have on him because he's going to find ways to get open. And they've got something really good going on. I think that the idea that they don't have enough talent around him is sort of silly because we see the rate that they're producing. So they're a really good team.

Great. I totally agree on the MVP stuff. It is the perfect narrative going into this week with Mulham struggling. Russell Wilson's had an up and down last couple of weeks. Obviously, they pounded the Jets on Sunday, but that's not a thing. That's not a resume builder, exactly. But we'll get to that. I think Aaron Rogers for MVP, Hyptrain, it starts in earnest this week. Obviously, it started in September, kind of went into hibernation a little bit.

it's back. And Rogers was pretty hyped up after the game. And obviously, he talked a little bit about how he wants the NFC championship game at Lambo. He's never played in one at Lambo. He's played in four. They've all been on the road. I agree with you. And Devante Adams is amazing.

And when I was watching this game today, I mean, when Rogers is at his best, he makes everything look so easy. And obviously, Mahomes does that a little bit. Mahomes is so amazing. It's almost a different category. but like the way that Rogers moves in the pocket he had that touchdown run today

it looks so easy I mean like 29 other quarterbacks would just like screw around fall down Rogers just the instincts are there running with confidence the passes I mean I had no no doubt they were going to close that game out

that past atonean at the end I mean this is it's a good team Mason Crosby had from 58 to seal the game essentially even though that the Lions may have had a chance that they got in a stop late you know, you have to take a couple of style points away from the fact that it was Chase Daniel

and not Matthew Stafford that the fourth quarter was against. Matthew Stafford came out with some, he was grabbing his midsection. We don't know the diagnosis there, but obviously Matthew Stafford's is tough as nails if he came out. Something is wrong. But Rogers after the game said that he's talking about the best teams that he's been on and how they're able to overcome adversity and have camaraderie and play weird games like this. and he said this team has a lot of those characteristics. And the defense still concerns me a little bit. They had four sacks today. The bar is low for what they need to do. The special teams worries the hell out of me,

but the bar is really low for what the Packers need to do. If they can get a couple of sacks, they didn't have an interception today, but if they can get a couple interceptions, something. If they can just get something, this is the NFC favorite. I actually think I take back saying that I didn't really adjust

how I felt about the Packers based on this game. I did think they're from, seven played pretty well. It seems like they were getting a lot of pressure. That felt like a development. The thing with Rogers and Mahomes, though, I mean, I agree with you that it's, Mahomes is just, Mahomes is Mahomes. Like, that's enough said. But the thing that the two of them do that I think is really important is that their combination of accuracy and mobility and their ability to be

accurate when they are rolling out is that so much of what modern defenses try to do is is clog up the middle of the field because those are, especially since all the rules have changed to make it easier for receivers to catch balls there because they're not being hit in the same way, those are shorter throws because you don't have the distance going to the sidelines. And that comes into play with so many quarterbacks where if you stuff that up and take that stuff away, force them to go to the outside, things get a lot harder.

But those two, I feel like one thing that feels, feels very similar about watching them is the combination of how they can throw on the run when they are moving towards the sidelines while they're running, which again, you're getting closer to your 10-yard throw being actually 10 yards versus like 20 if you're doing it from like right where you drop back to pass. And it's just really hard because unless a defense that they're playing has incredible outside corners, that is... something that just, it's a wide gap between the sort of cream of the crop quarterbacks and the rest because those easy throws are just a little bit less, they're less dependent on them.

So it limits what defenses can do. And that feels very similar between Rogers and Mahomes to me. Well, the difference, the commonality, actually, between Mahomes and Rogers is they're the only two players from a passing standpoint that, that when, and I don't know, I don't know if it's NFL history, but certainly now, okay? When those two guys drop back to pass, every single time you have the chance to see the best thing

you've ever seen in a football field. Like, that is in play every single time. That's not in play with anybody else when they're passing the ball, okay? And that's what I think of what I think of those two guys. And you saw... How dare you disrespect Mitchell Trevisky this way? I mean, honestly, you can see amazing things

and Mitchell Trubisky dropped back to pass. Just not the amazing things that we're thinking about here. And there's plenty of amazing when you talk about Mitchell Trubisky, but that's separate, that's a separate deal. But I think that there's, you know, you saw some of the sidearm stuff today. You know, Rogers is Rogers. Rogers is still Rogers. And when he's at his peak and right now, he looks like he's peaking,

good things happen. He can overcome a lot. All right, let's get to our third winner of the Washington football team defense, specifically, who are part of our State Farm surprisingly great segment of the week. Getting great car and home insurance from State Farm at a surprisingly great rate, that's like the Washington football team

dominating the San Francisco R49ers to take a significant lead in the NFC East. State Farm agents provide personalized service so you can customize your insurance to fit your needs like a GM putting together their very own roster. You need a team that supports you, and State Farm's got a great one.

In addition to agents, the award-winning mobile app helps manage coverage, pay bills, file claims, and more. With a great price and even greater service, State Farm goes from strength to strength. Nora, the Washington football team got its sixth win, insurmountable. An insurmountable sixth victory. They are almost 500 on the season. We're on a four-game running streak.

Let's not go. Let's not go crazy. Well, are we going to be watching a playoff game at FedEx Field? This year, I think they're in the driver's seat for that. I think they are. And I also think that this defense is, is no joke because a lot of things in the NFL and the NFC East this year have been a joke and they've been graded on a curve because, oh, is Jalen Hertz the best NFC East quarterback or whatever it is? Yeah, maybe because there's just not a lot of greatness there. This Washington

football team defense would be good in any division, in any conference. I think that's what's important. And they've invested in it. Chase Young, Montez-Swech, Jonathan Allen, Payne, even Ryan Carrigan, you know, is in the rotation. Those are all first-round picks. They understand how to spend and build a defense. And I think that that's finally paying off for them. And I think that it's the most dominant force in the division right now. Yeah. Well, Chase Young had an incredible day.

One of many, he's had this year with a ton of impact plays. He had a sack, forced to fumble. And that's super important, right? You hit on your high picks. They've invested a ton in that defense. But they also had Cameron Curl, a seventh round pick, a defensive back, who scored a touchdown. And his story is really, really, really interesting to me. Sam Fortier, who writes for The Washington Post, did a really cool piece on this.

He was a seventh round pick. He'd taken a pretty big gamble by declaring after his junior year at Arkansas to come out into the NFL. And for someone like that, that can be a big deal because maybe you would have better draft status if you waited an extra year. And I think he said that a lot of people told him to stay and wait it out for one more year. and for someone like that, where they end up is significant because you're fighting to not be on the margins of a roster and to have that kind of job security. And so he was literally at the airport about to go to Baltimore for his visit with the Ravens in March.

And he gets a call from the Ravens and from his agent, and they say the NFL is suspending all prospect visits. You got to turn around and go home. And so for someone who's kind of taken that risk to say, okay, no, I want to declare for the draft and play in the NFL next year. That's that kind of COVID story that we've talked about, a bunch in the abstract, but that's a real one. And there's tons of them. And I'm sure some of them are working out like his is.

He's been really good for them. And I'm sure some of them aren't. But if you are trying to build a team as Washington is and you have the strength of the team being that defense, I think there are significantly more questions about their offense, both in the short term and more significantly in the long term about who's going to play quarterback. But they have gotten there so quickly on defense, both by investing a lot of resources, but also by hitting on some lower picks. And often you need to do both, and they are doing both in Washington. And they're in the driver's seat to host a playoff game, which I don't think that even at the beginning of the season we wouldn't have seen coming. there were points in the middle of the season where it was so unclear who was going to win this

division, but it didn't really feel like this was the most likely team to coales. So it's a credit to the players. It's a credit to the roster building. I think Ron Rivera's done a really good job. It seems like they play hard. They seem to like each other, have a good thing going there. But they're fun. They're fun to watch. And they deserve a ton of credit for it. Yep. And Ron Rivera was the perfect coach for this team. because they need a culture change and he's a guy, I've talked to him a bunch about this.

He sits in the locker room a lot because he just likes improving the vibe and he likes developing young players and he just likes everything the Washington is going to throw his way. And I think you see with this front seven, he knows how to work this stuff. Chase Young had his mom on the Zoom

on a speakerphone during his Zoom press conference just working her in, which I kind of liked. And I just think that there's just kind of a good feeling around this team. And I think that I would, was I was a little bit worried that the NFC East winner was just going to be kind of, I don't know, a downer. And that we weren't going to, it was just going to be like, okay, this team's going to play on Saturday night and get their butt kicked and we're going to move on.

And that's still probably going to happen. I don't think Washington's going to win a playoff game. But I do at least find them talented and generally likable as a as a roster. I'll be interested in their playoff game, certainly. It won't feel. I'll watch it. I will watch the game. But I'll watch it with enthusiasm.

I will be interested and curious about what's going to happen when I click on that game, assuming they pull it out. Choose insurance. It always brings its A game. When you want the real deal, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right. Our last winner, Mitchell Trubisky. After you slandered him earlier.

2017 quarterback class passer ratings today. We'll start with number three. It's from PFF. Mahomes, 91. Watson 101. Mitch Chubisky 126. Take it haters. He's the only one of those three

hasn't got a mega contract and it's time to start talking Turkey. Extensions for everyone. All right, let's quickly. Let's move out of Chubisky as quickly as we can, if possible. Can we just say that Vernon Hargraves, Keon, Crosson, and Eric Murray

were playing defensive back for the Texans. Like, I know you're doing a bit, but I just want it on the record. Am I doing a bit? What is life, if not a sequence of bits taken seriously? Our number one loser is Las Vegas Raiders who lost to the Indianapolis Colts 44 to 27. In the process, there were a ton, a ton of teams

that cost themselves huge percentage points in the 538 playoff thing today. The Raiders are now down to 22%. They are 7 and 6. They have lost four or five games they look lost and I there's the rush defense

will be the focal point they've now in four consecutive weeks given up more rushing yards in the week before 108 to Kansas City 125 to Atlanta 206 to the Jets and 212 to the Colts I'm not sure how that

trend can continue but I wouldn't bet against it and most importantly they've now fired defensive coordinator Paul Gunther I don't know what happens from there Rod Maranelli is expected to be the interim defense coordinator we've seen that in how that's played out in Dallas. Not necessarily a quick fix, I would guess.

Listen, I'm Miami Hurricanes fan. I know all about bad rush defense now frustrating it can be and how easy it seems to fix and it just never gets fixed. And the Raiders are in that zone right now. And Derek Carr, he made some mistakes. That Kenny Moore interception. That was an amazing play. Unbelievable.

It could have been a better throw, I guess, but Kenny Moore made one of the interceptions the season. second interception was a deflection. So this, most of the focal point here is going to be on the defense. A little bit to get to with the Colts, but Raiders takeaways, Nora. Well, this is a little bit of a Maniculpa for me because I think we had a conversation last week about how far the Raiders could go. And I had felt like with them, the defense is clearly a liability, but I would rather

be able to score a lot and score in bunches than have a solid defense this year. I just think that that's how a lot of game scripts are going to play. And if you wanted to make that argument, this was not the game to make it with because their their offense was still pretty good and had a lot of explosive plays. But the defense was just brutal. I mean, it was the Colts passing game was still pretty good. And then Jonathan Taylor had 150 rushing yards. Naim Hines had 58.

So nothing was going right there. And I think Rivers played a great game. This was actually, this was the game that I'd sort of been waiting for from the Colts, although you consider the opponent a bit, but Rivers was just total clean sheet, and he was helped by the strength of the running game, but he was no mistakes, Rivers. And that, they pad the score with the Pixex a little bit,

but to see them putting up a bunch of points and him not throwing any interceptions, not throwing any almost interceptions, just looking like totally having everything with Ty Y Hilton working and things are good and clicking there, this was the game that made me feel like, oh, okay, I trust the Colts in a way that I haven't really trusted them before. And some of that is not just this result. It's building on earlier parts of the season, but I do feel like I turned a little bit of a corner with Indy. I'm temporarily suspending trusting and not trusting the big middle of NFL teams because

I just keep going back and forth. The Colts beat the Packers, and then they lose by 19 to the Titans. And I just, I don't know. I mean, I've been of the theory that working in a new quarterback was always going to be a full-season project, and maybe this is just them clicking,

or maybe it's just that the Raiders have no idea what they're doing on defense. Jonathan Taylor was amazing today, and, you know, I saw some folks talking about this, and maybe it's Jonathan Taylor finally breaking out and becoming the dominant back or maybe it's just playing the Raiders. And in this year,

I heard someone compare every week, someone in the league compare every week now to like a bowl game where so much of it depends on whether or not the team wants to be there. So much of it depends on the preparation. And everything is just so week to week that, okay, did they have it?

Did they have five practices? Do they have three practices? Like everything is just so different. And when they meet, you can tell instantly when, how they've prepared or what they're going through or whatever it is. Like, this is, we're never going to see more obvious differences between how teams prepared

than we are this year. And that's, when I see a team just absolutely lay an egg, that's where my mind goes. That to me is a reason to trust the Colts. I mean, yeah, trust is for suckers. We can get rid of that, whatever. Like, I'm just, you know. I'm just saying we don't know what's going to happen.

I'm just saying that two weeks from now, they might practice twice. You don't know. We don't know. All of a sudden, they're on virtual on a Wednesday. Uh-oh. Okay, but how many coaching staffs and how many infrastructures right now

if now that Rivers has been worked in, they've had some time together. They know each other a little bit. Like, Indy is one of those teams that I feel like has competent people in the room, smart leadership, and they also seem to really like each other. Like, the burnout thing that we've been talking about,

I think, is real. But when you're watching that and you're seeing like Rivers and Jacoby Brissette chopping it up and Jacoby Brissette like now being situational quarterback sneaker, which I love, like they're finding a way to have a nice time in ways that I think are really hard right now. And so I think some of that intangible stuff really works in their favor. I am in total agreement with you. And also when we're talking about the Eagles in that 2017 season, which I again think is one of the best coach jobs you ever seen. much of that was Frank Reich, and the last two weeks have been nothing but praise for Frank Reich and how big of a part he was. And that wasn't

discussed necessarily in 2017. I think Frank Reich was actually a little underrated and you think about the fact that he was basically in his backup plan and even though he had just delivered helped deliver the Super Bowl as an officer coordinator to Philly. I think that speaks to the fact

that he was overlooked for those jobs. But the one I agree with you on is if it comes down to adaptability and things getting weirder, Frank Reich is as prepared as anybody for that. In fact, nobody's better. You think about the fact that he had to take on some of Josh Daniels hires at the first year he got there. Like, if anybody's up for a weird January, it's Frank Reich. And so, yes, I think long term, I'm in on, I'm in on this team, I'm just saying that on a week-to-week basis, unless you're like the chiefs,

I just, I have no idea what to expect on a week-to-week basis. And that's why I think this, I think it's just to fools Aaron to say, oh, here comes this team in this year. I know that that sounds extremely wishy-washy, but it's just the reality for the next three weeks. The slogan of the 2020 NFL season is just in last year the chiefs. Unless you're the chiefs. Unless you're the chiefs. Okay. I want to talk about Quinn Nelson having to play left tackle for like a couple of snaps because

Anthony Costanzo got hurt. Anthony Costanzo got hurt. And then Chazze Green was just really bad. So they just put Quentin Nelson at left tackle, who I don't think has ever played tackle in any meaningful way. I actually don't know if he's played at lower levels or whatever. But anyway, Cassonzo came back in, but I'm not extremely excited about the Colts' offensive line depth, but that's another issue. I love the idea of just asking Quentin Nelson to do, like, other things.

Like, they should start being like, hey, do you think, can you, can you be the groundskeeper on it? Just ask him to do stuff. Like, he's a talented guy. He can probably take it on. This is unrelated, but it may be. me think of it because you mentioned Josh McDaniels. When we were talking about open or potentially open coaching jobs, we were talking about the not open, but maybe, Bears job, I had talked about how someone who's already had tries at being a head coach might be more reluctant to go there,

but was basically saying, like, they're all good jobs. People want them. Like four people got in touch with me and were like, Josh McDaniels would totally go to Chicago. Anybody would go to Chicago. Everybody loves Chicago. So just for the record, apparently. people really like Chicago. Oh, my God. I'm rejected. Point rejected. Now that we've had,

now that we have Mitch is on a hot streak. You have something to build on. It's going to be great. All right. Our next winner, the New York Giants, who ended their hype cycle. The hype cycle is over. They've lost 26 to 7

to the Arizona Cardinals in Daniel Jones's return. And it was not a good one. And we talk about the 538 playoff picture. The Giants went from 53% at the beginning of the day to make the playoffs to 15% when you marry the loss with the Washington football team win. They decided that Hassan Reddick was allowed to do whatever he wanted. He had nine quarterback pressures, five sacks on 22 pass rushes, third most pressures in a game this season by any defender.

And his 40% pressure rate, according to next-gen stats, was the highest in the game in the last five years. Not what you want. Cliff took a little bit of a step forward. I kind of liked what he was doing with Kyler Murray under center, played a little pistol. At least there was just some variety there. Looks like Kyler Murray is getting a little bit healthier. Daniel Jones in for Colt McCoy, who engineered the win last week in Seattle. Not good.

And I don't know if he's, I saw some giant speed riders like, did he come back too soon? He had those fumbles. Well, he's been fumbling his entire career. And so maybe that's a sign that he's fine. Okay. And so I threw for 127 yards. He looked like he was getting the crap knocked out of him. He looked like he was still nursing the hamstring injury a little bit.

But I don't have much faith in Daniel Jones being engineering a miraculous December and winning the playoffs, especially now with Washington football taking the reign to the division. Yeah, well, they'd won four in a row basically because their defense had been playing well and because the quarterback, whether it was. Jones or Colt McCoy weren't turning it over a ton, and then both of those things changed. So, and the defense wasn't terrible, terrible. We've seen better offensive performances from the Cardinals, although I agree with you that the Kingsbury Two-Step, I guess, that we're doing took a step forward today. But they just let DeAndre Hopkins go off. And that's a decent enough formula when you're not playing a juggernaut for Arizona.

So, yeah, I'm sure Daniel Jones is still a little banged up, but like, so was Kyler. And it's just too late in the season for it to really matter, right? Because this is when the percentages for a playoff path just changed so drastically. Also, can we claim partial credit for making NBC have Steve Kornacki do football night in America? I don't think we can. I think it was universally appraised. Okay, but, I mean, maybe a little louder from some corners. Yeah.

If you'd like us to take credit, we can't. Listen, I'm all for taking credit for things we had nothing to do with. That's one of my core tenets. Steve Kornacki, the ringer NFL show made you who you are. Absolutely. The G-Men have the Browns and the Ravens next two weeks. I think we understand where that is headed. I think that Joe Judge has exceeded all expectations.

I think that, you know, I remember Peter Schroger being on this podcast in the preseason. We're talking about how players liked him more than maybe the national media. I think a lot of times that when I was the raw, a guy that people, especially in the media reflexively, assume that players don't like them. I think that Joe Judge has established something in a year where it's hard to establish anything, but I don't see this going very well. I just think that's 0 and 2 for them. Then they have the Giants last game, excuse me, the Cowboys last game of the year.

So we'll see what happens there. I feel like that that little hype cycle there, where there were a couple of columns saying Joe Judge might be coach of the year or something. I just feel like that we got a little bit. We got a little bit out of hand. Very fine year for the Giants. Exceed all expectations. Congratulations.

I don't think this is going to go well going forward. Anything else in the GMEN or the Cardinals? The Giants are a little bit like the JV football team, like JV Washington football team in terms of the hype cycle, right? Where they have a pretty good, they've looked better than we thought they would on defense. It seems like there's something there. They're not of the, this could be a really good defense for a playoff. team status, which I think we're realizing is where Washington is, but they're frisky.

And then there is the question about who's going to end up playing quarterback in the long run. And a less established good head coach, but a head coach that maybe we're starting to see have some positive impact on the team. So in some ways, they have a lot of the same kind of pieces and a lot of the same big picture questions. It's just that the defense is like exciting and young and kind of interesting versus actually

being really good and then there's just so much less of a track record with the coach. Our last loser, we have the Vikings here, but we know it's Dan Bailey. It's just Dan Bailey who made the Vikings a loser. So it's not that, so they lose 26 to 14 to the Tampa Buccaneers

and Dan Bailey cost them 10 points. And obviously that wouldn't have put them ahead, there were decisions that were made, especially late in the game, that were basically like, please don't make us kick decisions from the Vikings. This was a very, very strange game. Leonard Forenett, by the way,

healthy scratch. Can't believe that didn't work out. Bruce Ariens came out afterwards and said, we showed our identity, we can do any damn thing we want. I like Bruce Ariens, he checks here.

I just kind of like him. He's just got a different bit after each game. And the Bucks played okay today. You know, Scotty Miller getting involved, the run game with Ronald Jones looked pretty good. Tom Brady looked sharper.

Still some chemistry issues. And Bruce Ariens came out and acted like they're the 2007 Patriots. I love that. I do too. I think it's so fun. We had both head coaches after this game were kind of on fire because while

Bruce Ariens was fun, Mike Zimmer, when he's talking about Dan Bailey, gave what in my opinion is the quote of the year of the year and has applications just in any corner of life, which was he said, at this point in time, we're not really worried about feelings anymore. I love that.

And I just love it so much. I want to use that. I hope Dan Bailey is okay. I can't imagine what it would be like to be an athlete with the yips. Like, that sounds seriously not fun. You should try golfing, Nora. That's a hard pass for me. We're playing quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles at $30 million a year.

Those have... Either one. Similar odds. But so Bailey, like, the total cost of Bailey's misses was that they left 10 points on the board. Four kicks. They missed four kicks. Like, if you're like Kirk Cousins, you're like, why am I even going out here? He was wide left on an extra point.

And then he pushed a 36-yarder, a 54-yarder, and a 46-yarder to the right. So it's just like, I think there was a thing last week where it was like maybe he was kicking, he was kicking higher than he usually does. I read that too. But it's sometimes, I know this sounds dumb, but sometimes the correct sports analysis of a situation is just,

it's bad. And that probably has more applications to kickers than most. But I actually, so Bruce Ariens maybe went a little over the top, but the Bucks did play pretty well. Like Brady wasn't spectacular or anything, but he was a pretty good game manager.

But then they also, so Carlton Davis, who I think we last talked about on this pod because he got his soul eaten by Tyreek Hill, he was really good on Justin Jefferson. Man, Carlton Davis is a really good example of one of these guys, one of these week-to-week guys. Because in September, they were putting him on an island and he was doing really well. And the whole thing from tape grinders and people inside the league and people are really smart. Like, Carlton Davis is the next great cornerback. And then he spent a month just getting dunked on by everybody in the league. and now he's coming back a little bit. Like, that is, that is inconsistency in 2020.

It just sums it up totally. At this point in time, we're not really worried about feelings anymore. Like, I want that on a throw pillow or a t-shirt or a banner and to fly it around on a plane or something. Like, that's just, it's so great. It's such a great sentence. Well, the feelings are bad. That's why you can't care about them right now in Minnesota. And their playoff odds are 20%.

now, according to 538, not what you want. After making up all that ground. Yeah, and that's really good for the Cardinals. So just to keep track of that stuff, like the Cardinals basically just leapfrog for them. The first playoff weekend's going to be a nightmare. I'm going to have no idea what's going on. I think you'll be okay.

I don't know. I'm worried about it. All right, now it's time for the hurry up, the best of the rest. Nora, Chargers, Falcons, this is the end of half sequence by the Chargers in which they could not get a playoff and certainly could not get a field go off. One of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen in my life.

And yet, the curse of the Falcons, we now know stronger than the curse of the Chargers. We almost made the Chargers a loser because not only did they look embarrassing, but they won costing themselves. They're now in the four-win zone with a bunch of other teams. They still have a top five pick,

but come on, you don't want to be in the four-win zone right now. Seahawks first Jets. Marcus May had a great interception. That was about it. It was not a good game for the Jets. no i also there were so many revenge games sunday but i think we have to say that the jamal adams revenge game was the king of the revenge games not gino smith unless he also broke the set the um single season sack record for a defensive back which adams did with eight and a half uh then no i think it

goes to adams but the funniest part of this is that adams had like a whole celebration planned but the sack that actually broke the record was he just pushed Sam Darnold out of bounds. So then Pete Carroll had to tell him on the sideline that they scored it as a sack. Titans versus Jaguars. This Gardner-Minshu thing, so they inserted him into this game in the middle

of the game. I don't understand what's gone on with the Jaguars. This seems like a transparent this seems like a transparent tank job that just no one is talking about. It's actually wild. They're in Jacksonville. They're in Jacksonville. Greg Williams.

Two years just going crazy over every bad move the tanking Browns did. And no one seems to care what the Jaguars are doing right now. Greg Williams did something thoroughly on brand. And we tried to attribute it to tanking, not we on this podcast. But there's a tank in plain sight, people. Annie Dahl and Revenge Game, Cowboys Bengals. Got the game ball. Game ball.

But not the best revenge game. Broncos Panthers, anything? Apologies to Broncos Panthers. We ran out of time. Those two teams played in a Super Bowl like four years ago. I think they said that on the broadcast. The first thing was like, a Super Bowl rematch and it made me laugh.

They did? Yeah. That was such a weird game. All right, listener question, we got two. First one is a little more serious than the second one. The first one is from Joshua. Are teams like the Eagles, Giants, and Jets harder for a player because the media is ruthless?

Would Carson Wentz thrive in, for instance, Jacksonville. This is a great question because it gets to the heart of where a media market and where a player can play and all that stuff and where a player can suck quietly.

My take on this is that if Carson Wentz, if everything was the same and he played for a Jacksonville, I think he could quietly suck for a little longer. Am I wrong, Nora? No, I think that's true.

It also makes a lot of sense with Wentz because they're being so weird about how they handled this situation that it's making me think that he is having trouble with it. I think that's, I don't think it's like universally relevant, but I think there are some players who do better if they either live in a smaller media market or maybe it doesn't have to do with press, but people are different. People want to, some people fit in better in certain places.

And I think that like it seems so not sports analysis to talk about it. I think it's something that kind of gets underrated. Like sometimes guys just need a change. agree. I just think that there's with anybody who's struggling, like the questions get asked earlier in New York or Philadelphia or Boston or whatever like, hey, are you going to bench this person? Like, is Cam Newton going to be benched? It was like a week three question for the Patriots media.

And if everything were the same in like Atlanta, that would just not be the case. That's all. Or Jacksonville or any market there were, there's not 15 B-writers. It's just a little different. The tone of every press conference in every other city outside of like five of those places is just so different that there's just less, I guess you could say noise. Something Jake Liser I talked about last week. We're about the noise in Philadelphia now consent.

All right. Second question is from Mave. Do you guys, this is Aston. They say, do you guys reckon Freddie Kitchens would do well with the chargers? So this is a question basically about can anyone who's not Anthony Lynn improve the chargers? Okay. Hmm. I don't know. I think Freddie Kitchens is one of, and this is a great question from Dave. I think there's like five guys currently work in the NFL who've been a head coach or could be a head coach who would be worse than Anthony O'Linn. I think Freddie Kitchens might be one of them.

I think so too. What I'm considering, could they tag team it? I wonder if that might work. Would that help? I think it seems like somebody with the Chargers has too much on their plate. That's what it seems like, because things are getting missed. Well, the thing that's on Anthony Lins plate that is too much for him as being the head coach. He's coaching the Chargers? Yeah. I will say,

I think Jason Garrett, who works with Freddie Kitchens on the Giant Staff, I think Jason Gary, I'm not saying Jason Garrett should be the coach of the Chargers. I'm saying that if you're looking for someone to actually improve the Chargers, I actually think Jason Garrett would do it because he's all about execution and just like the basics.

He wouldn't make stupid mistakes like that. He wouldn't make them much better, but he would make the better. I think Joe Judge would improve them. Patrick Graham, the Giants coaches who would make the Chargers better but there's like four of them. Freddie Kitchen is not one of them.

Is there a good coach who you think would make them worse? I know that doesn't seem like it makes sense, but I think, like, I don't think either Harbaugh should be doing that. Like, I don't think that that personality fits with mistake prone. I would say until this year,

I would say, like, maybe a Pete Carroll type who wouldn't let Herbert Cook. I think, but I think he's maybe evolved a little bit. Is there a good coach who would do really badly with the Chargers? I don't think so, because I think that you would just put them in a position where they would play competent football. I think that most people could do that, and then they would improve. I honestly do not think he'd be worse than what the Chargers have been, because it's not just bad, it's embarrassing. It's really bad.

So the answer is no. I don't think so. Even, even like, the most conservative version of Pete Carroll would get this team to seven wins. like the worst year of Pete Carroll. Honestly, Pete Carroll might win the Super Bowl with this team. That escalated very good. I'm serious. But yeah, no, I think you're right. If you give Pete Carroll, like, I'm telling you, like, four years with this team,

this is the basic core of this team, he'd win Super Bowl. This is my belief. Pete Carroll is, like, always my pick for this team just has bad juju. Like, he is the person I trust to go in there and, like, scare away all the ghosts. Is he the best ringer podcast host for that job? Yeah, because he actually coaches football. Yeah, yeah, this is a two-way time. And her house.

Actually, I changed my mind. It's house. Yeah, it's house. All right, let's get out of here. Tomorrow's quickbait, Nora. So I think it's just, we're having another, this is the thing about the media environments. We're going to do another Eagles thing.

We're going to do a future of the Eagles Hertz thing. I think people are going to retire Ben Rathesberger. Yeah. And talk about his contract. It's a huge contract. It's not like a wency and, four-year deal, but it's still over $30 million a year. I think that there's just going to be some chatter about that.

And the Steelers are a very good team, but some of their problems that have popped up the last couple weeks are just going to be harped on for the next week. So that's going to be, you're going to submit it out, sat on the Chiron. Also, will Freddie Kitchens improve the charges? Improved the chargers? That's going to get a lot of buzz. Everyone's going to talk about that. All right, this has been, oh, oh, I want to read this quote.

Arjuna just sent it into me. Brooke Pryor, our buddy, asked Ben Rothesburg, what was causing the underthrown balls off target passes, et cetera, if it was miscommunication with the receiver's play calls or something else. The response was, get ready for this norm. I'm just not very good, Brooke. Oh, geez. Well, that is, man, that is tough.

I was going to, we were going to roll out out out of here. I was going to throw out a happy birthday, Taylor Swift. Oh, and also, also we have to shout out a happy couple. Oh my gosh. Yes. So we had a ringer and a fels show. I'm claiming it for the show. Engagement. Congratulations to Tabitha and Bailey. We're very happy for you. We could not be happier for Tabith and Bailey. We're much happier for Tabithin Bailey than we are for Ben Rothesberger right now. He's not very good. You really threw me with that because we were going to go out on such good vibes. And like the vibes with the Ben Rothesberger vibes are not good vibes. All right. That does it for us. On Tuesday, Ryan Chazier and Cole Wright are.

back on Wednesday, Warren Sharp and Chris Vernon. Thursday, we're back. And on Friday, Warren Sharp and Joe House. This has been the Ringer NFL show on the Rigner Podcast Network.