The Ringer NFL Show - Week 16 Recap: Vikings Beat the Seahawks, AFC/NFC Playoff Picture, and More

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

Sheil, Steven, and Diante return to discuss, debate, and share their expert takes on their favorite games from Week 16 with the playoffs in mind. First, they break down the week’s most pivotal matchups in the NFC: Vikings-Seahawks (3:55) Commanders-Eagles (6:48) Falcons-Giants (17:44) Lions-Bears (24:34) Rams-Jets (27:18) Next, they examine some of the big games affecting the AFC playoff race: Texans-Chiefs (33:31) Ravens-Steelers (44:58) Bills-Patriots (51:33) Chargers-Broncos (56:43) Finally, they offer superlatives and awards to the players, coaches, and teams who made significant contributions to the Week 16 headlines (1:01:28). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Steven Ruiz, and Diante Lee Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Conor Nevins, Arjuna Ramgopal, and Daniel Comer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody, Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the mismatch. And huge welcome as well to my new co-host, Dave Jacoby. I can't wait to link with you twice a week every Tuesday and Friday right here on the mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league. Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe, and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get your. your podcast. And also don't forget to follow us on social media. That's at Ringer NBA. And check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history of

podcasting read on the Ringer NBA YouTube channel. To the Ringer NFL show, Shield Capadia here with Deontay Lee and Stephen Ruiz. Week 16 is in the books. A little playoff shakeup in week 16, the picture's becoming clear in both the AFC and the NFC. We're going to talk about it all. Ruiz, how are we feeling? I'm feeling good. I thought like Saturday's games were fine. They went the way that I expected them to go.

Sunday's game, we got a little more chaos. And I was kind of underwhelmed by the slate going in, but I thought it delivered. Deonti, how's dad life going with the NFL deciding to do like 10 days of football in 11 days around the holidays with the sun at home? It means that we're wrestling for control over the main TV in the apartment basically every day. And there's a lot of negotiation happening of like, all right, you get to halftime, I'll go to my room. You can use the main TV. I might catch the third quarter in there and then come back out, you know, if I got a right or whatever the case may be.

But there's a lot of negotiation happening with an eight-year-old, which is not exactly the way I figured I'd be spent in my 30s. Did you manage to get the college football playoffs on the TV or did you concede that one? You didn't miss much if you missed out on those games. What did I catch? I caught the first couple of pick sixes from a Penn State game. And I was like, all right, I think I can probably give the score away. And then I did see a lot of a lot of Texas Clemson because I was interested to see if the Archmanning chance would get started at any point in that game. There you go.

Yep, the NFL testing, everybody, everybody who wants to watch football, but still have a, you know, have a family. Listen, they're pushing the limits this year. All right. We're going to go NFC and then ASC. That's the show. And then we'll do superlatives at the end. because we are in playoff seating, who's playing who, who's still alive, who do we believe in, all those questions being asked right now.

So that's just the show today. No lessons, no none of that. We're going to start with the NFC. Guys, all started off with what the seating looks like here. And so if the playoffs started today, you would have the seven-seed commanders going to Philadelphia to take on the Eagles. You would have the six-seed, Green Bay Packers, going to L.A., the Rams in position. to host a playoff game going into week 17.

And then the biggest one, the Minnesota Vikings, who are now 13 and 2 after winning in Seattle, would be on the road in Atlanta. The biggest mover on Sunday. Tampa Bay Bucks lose on Sunday night. Falcons win at home with Michael Pennix, Jr. If the season ended today, Falcons would be in because they have the same record as the Bucks,

but the Falcons. and Kirk, Kirk, you contributed to this. He beat the bucks twice and played awesome in those two games. So the Falcons would host a playoff game if the season ended today against the Minnesota Vikings. All right. DeAte, you can go in any direction. What interests you? What did you find interesting today?

What do you find interesting about the matchups? Who do you believe in when you look at this NFC playoff picture as it stands right now? Who do I believe in is an interesting way to frame it? I would say I got a lot of confirmation of how I felt about Minnesota coming off of the conversation we had on Thursday. And I said that I felt really comfortable about the identity of that team. I thought that Sam Donald could handle the moment that that was going on the road and dealing with Mike McDonald's defense. And I think that what we saw, especially in the fourth quarter, was Sam Donald does give that offense an opportunity to stay explosive even when things are not perfect. Obviously, he gets his knee and ankle twisted a little bit in the fourth quarter.

you get the face mask call, which definitely bails Minnesota out, right? It gives them an opportunity to continue to push for their go-ahead touchdown. And right out of that, you get Sam Darnold climb in the pocket after limping 30 seconds before. He fires a ball deep up the left sideline for a Justin Jefferson touchdown. And this was a great Justin Jefferson game. So this is not me saying that all the credit is individually foisted on the shoulders of Sam Donald. But I thought that the way he played today, taking what the defense gave him, not being overly aggressive,

managing the pocket relatively well. I thought the Donald did a lot of the things that I would want to see from him in a playoff environment when teams are really locked in on taking away Justin Jefferson and locked in on taking away the explosive plays. He played really well. And then the defense forced a couple of turnovers and what was a really tight game. And that ended up being the difference. Yeah, that was a big moment for Darnel.

They're in Seattle. Seattle scores. They're down 2420 with 421 left in the fourth quarter. And they go 70 yards on four plays. And you mentioned it has to clock. the pocket gets wrecked and then finds Justin Jefferson for that 39-yard touchdown. And like the way his offensive lineman respond to him after that one, I'm just like, I don't know, have I been underestimating this team? They're freaking 13 and 2 right now.

They control their fate. They got Green Bay next week and the Lions in week 18. It's not going to be easy to beat both those teams. But the way they're playing, it's hard to count them out of any of these games. If they win those two, they're the one seed. in the NFC. So Ruiz, I don't know how locked in you were to that game or if you want to go in a different direction.

But the Seahawks now, their chances are not over, but much slimmer after they lose that football game. And Vikings fans, their kind of magical season continues. Now, that game kind of made me feel stronger about the Packers because we saw this Packers team just totally decimate this Seahawks team in the same spot last week on Sunday night. and I was willing to leave the Seahawks were dead. I was like, oh, they're probably not going to make the playoffs after this.

I don't even think they're going to be competitive against the Vikings, but they were super competitive against the Vikings. And if Ernest Jones catches that interceptable pass, two plays before the Justin Jefferson touchdown, I think we're having a different conversation right now, not only about Seattle, but also about the Vikings. But yeah, I still think Green Bay is the best team in the NFC right now. But I do want to talk about the Eagles,

because I know it's easy to look at that loss. you turn over Washington five times, you still lose the game. But if anything, I don't feel any differently about the Eagles after that game, considering the fact that not only did they lose Jalen Hertz, they replaced them with a guy who's looked like one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL over the last couple of years. And I think today just confirmed that he was the problem in Pittsburgh. And no matter what was around him, it probably wasn't going to work.

Because he was dropped into an ideal situation. Like, not even just with the pieces around him behind that offensive line with those receivers. but Washington just handing the ball over to Philadelphia's offense throughout the game. And he just couldn't capitalize. And it's hard to put everything on a quarterback. But when you watch that game, it was hard to feel like it was anyone else's fault besides the quarterback. I know there were some instances, you know, Devante Smith had the drop pass on third down. A.J. Brown could have caught a pass on a key third down.

Saquan Barkley had the drop. I don't know if it was a drop. Bobby Wagner made a great play on the ball down the sideline for what could have been a big play in the fourth quarter. but this game was about picket shortcomings to me and I think that made the difference and ultimately combined with Jane and Daniels clutch play down the stretch gave Washington the win there. I have a different takeaway from that game.

I'm glad he brought this up. I was more so looking at Philadelphia's defense and trying to think about when the last time it was that they looked like that in terms of giving up explosive plays, having the breakdowns in the secondary. Obviously, they haven't seen a quarterback as dynamic as Jane Daniels outside of the one game. game the game they played before on that Thursday night, but allowing all the scrambles,

I came away from this more so thinking about this being maybe an outlier performance on the whole. This is very reminiscent to me that Atlanta game where you can you can probably rattle off the five or six different plays that Philadelphia had available to them where if they convert the game ends, right? And I think on the whole, that's probably the right takeaway. But it was kind of instructive to me looking at Philadelphia from a coverage perspective and wondering whether or not they actually have the bodies at the safety position to be able to beat some of the more high-octane explosive offenses. When I look at Reed Blankenship and Chauncey-Garner-Johnson

and, hey, maybe they don't give up as many big plays if Gardner-Johnson doesn't get ejected because you would just have a better player on the back-in. You're not playing another backup on the back-in, and they've been light at safety basically all season. But you just look at the fact that they had to invest so much of their second level, getting depth because they didn't trust safety, He's using a bunch of different coverage rotations and having to play these really deep, soft zones, I think, to protect their safety room, that that allowed the space for Jaden Daniels to scramble.

Obviously, the 30-yard gain on a fourth down. That's a big one. I think he converted another second or third and eight by making Jalen Carter miss, you know, and that's a tough one for a defensive tackle who's coming across the guy's face. He's got a two-way go on you. And I know that in Vic Van Gogh's hard of hearts, he's probably thinking, hey, I know I've got plays that better handle the scrambling quarterback, but we may be maybe not can't get. to them because of the personnel we've got on the back end, knowing how vertical Washington wants to be offensively. And that doesn't even get to like Quinnian Mitchell playing with bad leverage on the big play that he gives up. You have a couple of personnel issues where you

have too many guys on the field. They get penalized for having too many guys on the field. And maybe the one guy who wasn't supposed to come off comes off in Dariusleigh because now you don't have your outside corner. So Alameda Zakias is just running Scott for you up the sideline. So there are a lot of things that I think would be easy to clean up. I just come away from this game saying you force five turnovers and your backup quarterback still helps you deliver 33 points. I would like to believe that a championship level defense doesn't give up three touchdowns in the fourth quarter. And that's kind of where I walked away from this game thinking.

You see, I'm like writing it off as like a one game aberration just because like a lot of these big plays happen on third and long, fourth down. Like these are situations Philadelphia wants to get Washington into and they just happen to win in those situations in situations that they haven't necessarily won in all year long, at least in their losses and their tough games when they went through that stretch during the middle of the season. I do agree, though,

I feel like the back end of the secondary is an issue and it's going to be an issue against these teams in the NFC, like especially at the top against Detroit and against Green Bay, where we know they can push the ball downfield. We know Green Bay is going to push the ball downfield, whether it's there or not. And if these safeties do mess up,

it only takes one or two big explosive plays to change a game. That's why explosive plays are so pivotal in today's NFL. And that position is, as the name implies, the last line of defense against those big plays. You need safety help to prevent those big plays. And it was suspect today. Yeah, that's why it stood out, I think so clearly today is because they've been so good at that.

I think they're top three in the NFL at preventing explosive plays all season long. And all of a sudden, Jaden Daniels comes in and Quignon Mitchell's getting beat for the touchdown, like Deontay mentioned, Slay's given up a 50 years. year completion. And then they have that busted coverage you were alluding to where who's supposed to be on the field, 12 men on the field busted coverage. And all of a sudden, it's a 49-yard touchdown. So it was uncharacteristic. I think I sort of agree with both of you that I don't have like a heightened level of concern with the defense at the same time. It's still a costly loss because they were in position to potentially still compete for that one seed. And now they have like a 5% chance to get that one seat. So if you're looking at Super Bowl, you're potentially. going to have to go on the road to Detroit there in the NFC championship game. And by the way, Hurt suffers the concussion. So you don't know if you're going to have him next week. Kenny Pickett has a rib injury, which will. So they have no idea who's playing quarterback for them next week. And they still do need one more win to hold off the commanders for the division.

They haven't clinched the division just yet here. So that's from the Eagles perspective. But I think you're both bearing the lead, which is that just the Jaden Daniels story, like he just adds another chapter today. I mean, no one has done that to Vic Fangio's defense all season long. 152 left and you got to go 57 yards for a touchdown with the game on the line. And he just calmly does it play after play after play. It wasn't one big explosive. I mean, that scramble he had, that movie puts on Jalen Carter. I haven't seen anyone do that this year to Jalen Carter, who's just been wrecking quarterbacks. That's a 12-yard scramble. And then it's just methodical completion after completion. Not to mention.

the deep passes, I mentioned earlier. So it's just like this guy's rookie resume has been incredible. And they put up 36 points and only one of the turnovers was really on Jade and Daniels today. They had four fumbles by other players on offense. I'm just looking at who he's thrown to. I know I said this going back to like week three, but go look at the box score. Olamadee Zakias has two touchdowns in this game. Jameson Crowder has two touchdowns in these games. These are like guys any team can have. This is not a great supporting cast. Their offensive line is not great.

He takes one sack in this entire game. I'm just excited to watch him in the playoffs. I mean, his story and the moments he's tacked on week after week here continue to impress me, even though they don't impress you guys. What's up with the strays to Zakias? I mean, the man made an incredible. He made an incredible catch on the first touchdown that was a poorly thrown past, thrown behind him in low. On the second one, he breaks like three tackles.

You're acting like he didn't do amazing plays on all these. It wasn't like some bum, like stumbling and bumbling into the end zone. Give the man some credit. All right. Olamadee Zakias or Justin Jefferson for the next five years. That's a tough one. I love it when Shield does this. I love it what shield does this.

I mean, I'm just saying these aren't guys that you like are like, but they're making plays. All right. He made a couple plays today. But give me a break for the entire season. They've had a top five offense. Not because of Cliff Kingsbury. Not because of Olomade Zikias.

Not because of James and Crowder. not because of Luke McCaffrey because of the rookie quarterback. I mean, they were both so many. Cliff Kingsbury didn't do, didn't win one battle on the chalkboard today against Vic Fangio. It was Jade and Daniels. Fourth and, they scored on three of their,

they scored touchdowns on three of their last four possessions. One of them, a fourth and 11, 30 yard scramble by Jaden Daniels. And then we mentioned it on that last drive. He's just making play after play. So I continue to give Jaden Daniels the credit because he deserves the credit. Yeah, I mean, to me, he's a story of the commander season.

He's the story of the game today. I wouldn't battle against that. Like, I might be a little bit more, I might have more of a preference for Drake May's ceiling as a dropback passer. And Caleb Williams is an extender of plays and being able to throw the ball on time and off schedule when he's at his best, as opposed to a Jaden Daniels. But there just is something to be said for a guy who has the explosive potential of a Daniels when everything else is going wrong offensively.

The one thing to Philadelphia did well today, was take away the run game. And we've been talking about for the commanders all season long, when they can move the ball in between the tackles, there's really nothing you can do to defend them because now they can really get into taking those one-on-one shots on the outside. And the more you have to invest resources in either taking away Terry McClorin out on the perimeter

or taking away the runs between the tackles, both of those things open up doors for Jaden Daniels to be able to punish you with his legs. And that's what the second half was for them. As Philadelphia started playing softer in covers, that opened up more doors for him to scramble. and there just wasn't enough of the second level of the defense there to be able to take that away. And it's just a credit to what he can do with his arms and his legs.

If he was able to overcome his team turning the ball over as often as they did and still be able to rally them in the fourth quarter to win this game. Yeah, the D passes were the big chains this week because that's like something that had gone away from early in the season. It's not like they were lighting it up on downfield passes anyway. They just came in high leverage situations. And they came in high leverage situations in this game. The one that beat the cover Zero Blitz was really reminiscent of the play against Cincinnati earlier in the year. The throwdown the sideline was reminiscent of his film at LSU.

It's all over his film at LSU, so it's not a surprise. But yeah, it's good to see that the offense, not only Jaden Daniels, Cliff Kingsbury too, you could throw him in there, has kind of survived that midseason lull, and they've kind of come out on the other end looking good. I know the game last week against New Orleans ended up being close, but that New Orleans defense is very good against the pass. And like Washington had a very good first half, a very good third quarter and just kind of slept walking in the fourth quarter and gave it away. It was a little fluky there.

So I do think we can be optimistic about this Washington offense in ways that maybe we weren't last month. It was a fantastic performance by Daniels and he made all the plays he had to make. He did get a little bailed out by the Devante Smith drop, which would have sealed the game and would have made his terrible. and maybe the worst throw of his career to date on that interception to read Blankenship. But, I mean, if you get a chance, you have to take advantage of it. And he did take advantage of it.

You have to give him credit for that. All right. Other other storylines here in the NFC, the Atlanta Falcons, our friend who helps on the show, Daniel Comer, his Atlanta Falcons. He said, finally, you're going to say something good about the Atlanta Falcons. I will. They go to Michael Pennix, Jr. and in a wild turn of events, this team that came up. into the weekend with a 25% chance to make the playoffs, take care of business against the Giants, 34 to 7. Penix goes 18 for 27, 202 yards in this game. I don't think it was sacked in this game,

and their offense just looked like functional. They were running the ball. The ball was coming out on time. And then their defense, of course, plays a fantastic game as well. So the Falcons, like I said before, right now, they control their fate for that four seed. They go to Washington. And, that's all of a sudden like a really fun game next Sunday night. The Falcons go to Washington and then their home versus the Panthers. The Bucks, meanwhile, get the Panthers at home next week and the Saints at home next week as well. So the Falcons own that tie break. But Deontay, this is just such a fun late season wrinkle that Michael Pennix, Jr., who hasn't played all season long,

now all of a sudden comes in and now all of a sudden, if you're a Falcons fan, your season has a little bit of juice. I mean, you couldn't get better confirmation of this being the right decision, and not only by how they looked on offense against the Giants. And not that I expect them to be as effective and efficient on a down-or-down basis against the rest of the teams that are on their schedule as they were today. But they just were able to access things that they had totally lost in this offense over the last month or so because of Kirk Cousins, either lack of willingness to throw certain routes,

his inability to handle pressure, obviously his lack of mobility in terms of running bootlegs and escaping the blitz. There were just so many things that were back on the table. And I think honestly, the biggest beneficiary in all of this might have been Bijan Robinson because now on early down teams can't just load up the line of scrimmage in the exact same way and just hit your guards right at the line and blitz, you know, anytime you're in the pistol or whatever the case may be, because you know this guy's not going to boot. You know this guy's not going to push the ball down the field.

It looked much better on early downs. And I think that that's probably the best reflection of having a functional quarterback in Zach Robinson's offense is just that now that everything's back on the table, you just get to see a more well-rounded and balanced version of this team. Yeah, I think Atlanta was like the biggest winner on Sunday. There's not even like the short-term implications of taking over first place in the NFC South, but the long-term implications of how good Michael Pennix look. I don't even think those numbers you reeled off even do him justice. Like when you look at the advanced box score, he averaged over seven yards for dropback,

0.16 EPA per play or per dropback, 48% success rate. Like those are very impressive numbers regardless of the opponent when you're making your first start. in an offense that has kind of struggle. I know Kirk Cousins has been a big part of those struggles. But also for Atlanta, on the first drive, we see Michael Pennix take a snap from under center, carry out of play-action fake, and deliver a ball, downfield, on target, to the perimeter.

And that's just something they haven't been able to do all year. And if you can't do that in a McVeigh-style of offense, like what's the point of running the McVeigh-style of offense? That's the whole point is to hit those play-action shots from under center. And then the other part of this for, like, Pennix's long-term, and prospects beyond the production was the throws he made over the middle. Because that was a big question with him coming out of college because he worked so much outside of the numbers, maybe due to Washington's offense and the fact that they had two

NFL guys or three NFL guys, I guess, out on the perimeter. But there were question marks about him working the middle of the field, throwing with anticipation over the middle of the field. And we saw it on two third downs, no less, where he's working front side. It's not there. And he works backside and hits an in-breaker on time and on target and anticipates it. Like, those are the questions you want to see. I'm not a guy that changes my opinions on quarterbacks easy,

especially if they're just succeeding in the same ways we've already seen them. I think this game changed my perception of penics because of those plays. He succeeded in ways that I didn't see him succeed in Washington. And if he keeps doing it, you have to give him credit for being a different type of quarterback than we thought he would be coming out of Washington. You said it well. He looked great. He made all the throws.

It wasn't just, hey, simplify it. Just do this one thing. Just throw go balls outside the numbers. anything like that. He was doing different things. He was going through his reads. He was using different parts of the field. And those EPA and success rate numbers, you gave out basically to put context, it's a top 10 quarterback in week 16 is what he did in terms of success rate and EPA per pass play. So Michael Pennix, Jr. And it's so funny. I like, I just look at that and I'm like, man, like, this is a long season. You know, you think about what you thought in week 12 and week nine.

And it's like, here we are after week 16. And this team just made. be snuck into the playoffs with a rookie quarterback who may be a big story for the rest of December and going into January. All right, let's hit on a couple of these other teams we haven't gotten to in the NFC. The Detroit Lions against the Chicago Bears, Jared Gough, outside, their defense dealing with all these injuries, and they go to Chicago and they take care of business. I mean, everything Dan Campbell said during the week, you thought, all right, are they actually going respond or is this just a tough situation? They go to Chicago, beat the Bears, 3417. Jared Golf throws for 336 yards. Jameson Williams has a big day. So they are 13 and 2. They're still the

one seed, but the Vikings are not giving up any ground. So the lines still have to take care of business. They're at the 49ers. Home versus the Vikings. Don't even have the division clinched yet, even though they're 13 and 2. Deonté, when you look at that Lions performance, do you look at them any differently than you looked at them going into the weekend? I wouldn't say any differently. This was just more of a necessity than anything, right? Like, I didn't want to come out of this weekend feeling differently because they're just so banged up, right?

So I just wanted to see them take a team in Chicago that's been going backwards defensively basically every week since Halloween and be able to just dominate them on a down-to-down basis. And that's exactly what happened. And by the time Caleb Williams really got his rhythm going, they were already chasing three possessions, right? So that's really what I wanted to see was him to make easy work of a team. that I know that they're superior then.

And that's exactly what we've got. I thought the run game looked good. Jared Goff continues to look good. And this is on schedule, play action passing, whatever the case may be. They've been able to do whatever they want to do within this offense. And I like the progression of where things have gone over the weeks as Jared Goff has gotten more comfortable. I just think we're seeing a better version of him in the dropback game than we were in the

first two months of the year. And that's exactly how you want it to be going into the playoffs, especially considering their circumstances, where chances are if they're going to be. to Green Bay, if they're going to be to Minnesota, if they're going to be to Philadelphia, it's probably going to be on the back of a 40 dropback plus performance from Jared Gough because they're going to need to outscore teams because this defense is obviously not going to be countered upon to be able to shut down the top offenses in the NFL. Yeah, that's where my concern would be after this game.

I know they won the game. They won it easily. They gave up 7.7 yards per dropback to the Bears. And like the conversion rate on that, that's basically like 12 yards per attempt when you're going up against like a Josh Allen or something, as we saw last week. So I think the high-level concerns are still there, the main overarching concern with the injury and the dark cloud that's hanging over

at this defensive depth chart because of all those injuries. I think that's still very much there. I don't know how much we learned about the offense just because we knew the offense was capable of this. I guess they have even more plays that we didn't know they were capable of. They're faking botched handoffs now as play action, and it's working. They're pretending to be bad at football.

Well, like most of the other offenses in the NFL are not. It's like they're just, I don't know, they're just rubbing it in the faces of these other teams, especially the bears. By the way, the bears are on the third offensive coordinator, and here the lions aren't faking, like, botched plays. It's amazing to watch how good this offense is and how solid is. Even without David Montgomery, I thought Jemir Gibbs just looked amazing in this game. Like, he looked like Seekwon Barclay in this game, like the MVP version of Seekwan Barkley. And when you look at the rushing stats, like he's at the top of all the efficiency stats. You can look at it.

I know his role in the offense is kind of easy. than it is for the other top backs in the NFL. But that's an explosive guy that's going to make a difference in playoff games. I think Jared Gough played well in the cold, which is a question that he always has to answer. He was wearing two gloves out there and he was spinning the ball just fine. He threw that one deep pass to Jameson Williams over the top of the defense. So I think you got all of your questions answered on the offensive side, the defensive side, which is ultimately, I think the thing that ends up holding this team back in the end looked exactly like you would expect it to look against a bad offense.

I don't think there are answers coming. You know, I think we all probably feel the sit. But that doesn't mean they can't get to the Super Bowl. I mean, the offense could be just that good where you need like a couple high leverage moments on defense. I'm with you guys against a great offense, a great quarterback. It's hard to see them consistently forcing three and out. So do they play the variance game?

What do they try here in the next two weeks? Do they lay off being aggressive? I don't know. There's no great answer. It's kind of one of those game plan specific things where we're not going to know until they get to the playoffs and play a really good. Actually, we might know before then, quite honestly, because weekend, they still got a win. You know, they face Shann, Kyle Shanahan next week.

And then they got the Vikings in Week 18. And like I said, they can't rest guys. So, I mean, you're feeling good if you're a Lions fan because like Ruiz said, they're faking fumbles to throw touchdowns to Sam Leporta in a viral highlight this weekend. But you're still going to have those questions about the defense, but those probably aren't going to be answered here anytime soon. All right. I think the last team we didn't talk about. other than the Packers who play Monday night, so we don't need to hit on them here.

But the Los Angeles Rams in a bit of a weird game in New Jersey, beat the Jets 19 to 9. Matthew Stafford throws for just 110 yards in this game, but they take care of business, they win. They now have a one-game lead over the Seattle Seahawks and around an 87% chance to win the NFC West. Ruiz, how you feel in about the Rams? they improved to 9 and 6.

Playoff positioning is better. Was this just win ugly? It doesn't matter type game? I think it was. And I think Sean McVeigh realized at some point in the second quarter that he was able to run the football. And he was like, hey, I don't get these opportunities a lot of late ever since like 2018. So I'm going to ride Kyron Williams, too. What did he have?

120-something yards? And they were running all types of schemes. I saw pulling blockers. I saw the typical zone plays, the typical duo plays. I think Sean McVeigh was just having a blast, even though they only scored 90s. points in that game. But yeah, you have to feel like they're the big winner from the NFC West. They've been, I don't want to use the word surging just because of how that offense

has looked over the last two weeks, but I think weather has played a big part in that. I would be concerned about Matthew Stafford looking this bad in the rain and then following that by looking not great in the cold in New York. So that's the one concern I would have, but it seems like they're going to just waltz into the playoffs and they're even going to be able to host a playoff game. And like we've said all year, with that offense, when it's clicking, especially when it's indoors. They can score with anyone.

They just beat the bills at home, who everyone was talking about as the best team in the league this week. So I still have high hopes. I just don't think, like, I don't think it's going to make it past the divisional round. I'll just say that. Where you're at, Deontay, too, with them?

Yeah, basically, like, my biggest hang up with the Rams all season long has just been, when they're playing up against the best teams in the NFL, they really only have one mode of operation if they want to win those games. I don't know if today changed my opinion on that at all. It was just nice to see when the past. passing game isn't going as explosively as it is when it's usually working at peak capacity that they had something else they could tap into. If you're going to try to maybe shift your perspective to the most optimistic thing, I really

like what this pass rush has been. I like how uncomfortable they've been able to make pockets for quarterbacks. It doesn't always result in explosive plays for this defense because the back end is just so limited and what they can do. But I do like what they've been able to get out of Chris Shul as a defensive coordinator has really cut these young guys loose up first. and allowed them to go get after the pack, good after the opposing passer. And if they're able to do that, you get the right kind of defensive variance in that way.

To Stephen's point, right? And this has been over the last two to three seasons. We've seen what Matthew Stafford usually looks like in December and January. I think that this is a team that can give anybody a hard day. I just don't know because of the defense, because of the fact that this offensive line has just not moved bodies as consistently as we thought they would when they made all the investment in it. And obviously part of that, a part of a contribution to that is an injury. and the lack of continuity and they've been switching guys as positions around.

But we're at the stage in the season now where we can't talk about these things theoretically, right? I just don't think we've seen enough from the complimentary parts to make me feel like they can beat one of the better NFC teams in the playoffs. But I do think that they can go to the fourth quarter with anybody and go blow for blow with them. Well, the good news for them is they are home the next two weeks, Cardinals and the Seahawks. And then like Ruiz. They can wrap up the division before week 18. And if they get in, they're hosting a playoff game.

in week one. So they potentially don't have to leave L.A. until the divisional round here. If they take care, who knows? Cardinals, Seahawks. I don't know. I don't feel like that. They're definitely going to do that.

We could still have a surprise here in the NFC West, but they are in good, good shape. All right, I think we hit on everything in the NFC here in the playoff picture. Like I said, commanders at Eagles, Packers at Rams, Vikings at Falcons. If the season ended today, those would be your three games with the Lions getting the but that is not clinch just yet. Still some things to be decided in the final two weeks of the season.

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Fandul.com. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. All right, we are back on the Ringer NFL show. So Saturday was a big day for the AFC, two big games for everyone to watch. And right now, if you look at it, the Chiefs, they win again. They are 14 and 1. So they are in a position where if they win on Christmas, if they beat the Steelers, they will have the one seed locked up and Patrick Mahomes, I don't know that he needs to,

but could potentially rest that ankle for 24 or 25 days before they have to play a game in the playoffs. So they're the one seed right now. The Broncos would visit Buffalo in another playoff matchup. Right now, the Steelers are clinging to the AFC North first place. Right now, they would own the tiebreaker, but they got to face the Chiefs on Christmas. So right now it would be Chargers at Steelers, and then it would be Ravens at Texans. in the AFC with teams like the Bengals, the

dolphins, and the Colts still looking for ways to sneak in there and take that final spot from the Broncos. Ruiz, when you're looking at the AFC playoff picture here, what has your attention after week 16? It's definitely the chiefs. And I mean, we had questions

about the offense. We had questions about Mahomes mobility and how that would limit them, and it didn't at all. Like, I'm running out of superlatives for Patrick Mahomes. I'm running out of ways of saying that I'm running out of ways, or running out of superlatives from Mahomes.

He reached 15 miles per hour on three scrambles on Saturday with a high ankle sprain. That tied a season high. He only was sacked once despite being under pressure on a third of his dropbacks. Just an amazing performance. And I think there are still all the question marks we had about the offense, about the

deep passing game. They didn't hit on anything over 15 yards. But I thought Hollywood Brown, his presence was felt. Like he made high leverage catches, he only ran 14 routes in this game and he was targeted eight times. So Patrick Mahomes made it a point to target him. He was targeted on over 50% of his routes. I thought we saw those two, they weren't on the same page on a couple of the deep targets, which suggests that they might have even more room to grow here. And this could be like the Rishi Rice emergence that

we saw in January last year. Maybe Marquis Brown fills that void and they have this element in the past game that they can bank on. And I think the one thing we've kind of underrated, especially with like how we've talked about Tyreek Hill leaving this offense and the void that's left in the offense. And most of it has been focused on the deep passing game. But I think one thing that Brown could add that Hill kind of left behind is that ability to take a short pass and turn it into a big game. Like we haven't really seen that from Xavier Worthy outside of like schemed up stuff. We definitely haven't seen it from any of the other chiefs receivers. And I think that's the one thing they've really lost from Tyreek Hill, that ability to turn a 10-yard gain into a 50-yard gain at any

point. I don't know if Marquis Brown is going to get to that point in this offense, especially this year, but they still have a chance. We were talking earlier. There's no reinforcements on the way, but maybe there is in the form of Marquis Brown. But the story is still Mahomes. The guy is just amazing. I think it just tells you this team. You can never count them out. And they're probably going to be there in the end. Deontay, did we get duped again? Did we get duped again spending hours on this podcast and all of us in our writing, questioning the Kansas City Chiefs when now they look like they're going to be the

one seat. They're 14 and 1. Like Ruiz said, they get Hollywood Brown back. Now they've got him. They've got New Cockens. They're the past catching court. Maybe they found something with Joe Tuny. Just hey, Joe Tunney, get out there. I left tackle. I don't remember. I didn't see

Moham's having a lot of trouble there. All those things. This was against the number one defense in DVOA, the Houston Texans coming in. And they put up like an 85th percentile game with their quarterback playing with the high ankle sprain. Did we get duped again or do the questions we had about this team, this team still concern you despite that performance on Saturday?

To me, the questions remain. I think the two things happened. A, we got to see a superhero Patrick Mahalo performance in terms of scrambling when you consider where it looked like he might be feeling physically coming in this week. I also think they kind of got a gift game plan-wise from Houston. I think one thing that they really like to do when they have guys that can run, is execute all the pick plays, all the bunches, all the switch releases. Houston has been an excellent cover one team all year long,

so this is not me saying that they're wrong for sticking to their guns. But I think that all of the five-man rushes in playing cover one really played into what Kansas City does best on third downs, which just create these pick situations for a Hollywood Brown who is now back. And now he can take the place of Xavier Worthy, who was just not executing on those underneath things as well, as somebody like Hollywood Brown can, they were able to get the ball to Travis Kelsey a little bit more often.

There was less reliance on guys like Noah Gray down the field, right? And I think that Houston just kind of assumed that, hey, the guy looked hobbled in the fourth quarter, the last game he played. Maybe they're playing coy and we're just going to get after him and see what happens. And I just think that to me, Kansas City should always perform well against cover one. The issue has just been that it hasn't been the case this year. This is the first time or the second time, including week 10, that they've had a success rate over 50% against cover one this season. A lot of their successes came early in the year. That obviously means that Rishi Rice was available.

I think the offensive line was playing better in the first half of the year than they have been over the last few weeks. So I do think that still I have some questions about what this offense is actually going to be. To me, this is just a matter of do I trust passing my home is more than I'm concerned about the problems? And I would say nine times out of 10, the answer is probably yes. I don't know. It might just be happening again. It might just be happening again. They're 14 and 1.

14 and 1. They're going to be the one seed. They got pieces. I mean, that was an impressive offensive. I was just watching that. Like, I can't believe my eyes. I think it was a mix of all the things you guys are saying. It was Mahomes.

Guys were open. It didn't feel so hard. There's a feel with the Chiefs. You know, I love the numbers, but there's a feel with the Chiefs over the years when you watch a game. Does this feel hard? Does this not feel hard? That didn't feel hard. Like they were going up.

You mentioned it, Ruiz, they were at least a handful of plays where he wasn't on the same page with guys. If half of those connect, who knows how many points. It was, you know, Travis, Ian, Travis Kelsey had a couple plays like that as well. Who knows how many points they put up? And we saw another installment of the greatest rivalry of the 2024 NFL season, Xavier Worthy versus the sideline. Once again, can someone tell this guy to get two feet down, please? I want to see him a home steep ball. Completed.

Ravens versus Steelers. Xavier Worthy versus the sideline. Hmm. I got to think about what else I can. put in here. Well, Houston Texans versus Bobby Sloick. Yeah. Yeah, no kidding. Let's talk about them.

I mean, listen, they are in a fine spot. They're four seed. They're nine and six. Devastating, obviously, injury to Tankdale, which was the worst moment of the weekend there. But is there any reason to believe in this team?

Like, if I did the old school sort of thing where it's just like, look at the quarterback and the coach, I would probably have the Texans pretty high. But the problem is everything else. And mostly that offense. When I look at that offense now, no Dell, no Stefan Diggs, this offensive line,

and the coordinator that it doesn't look like is giving them any kind of an edge. I just cannot get there with this football team, Deonté. Where are you with the Houston Texans? I'm out for the same reasons we've been out since basically week, three, week four this season, right? Because nothing has changed. what was ailing this offense all throughout the regular season last year, what got them eliminated by Baltimore

in the playoffs is the exact same reason why they're not effective offensively this season. And they've tried everything they can to pay. I think the players have tried everything they can to paper over the problems this season. I think that Joe Mixon has shown a level of creation as a runner that we did not see from him in Cincinnati that I did not expect from him in Houston.

I think when this receiving court was healthy, we saw that they could still create after the catch. Guys could get open. And it was a pretty well-balanced attack in terms of just guys and rolls out on the perimeter. But this offensive line is bad. And I feel like the game plan is actively making them worse by putting them in situations where they can't win in. I don't know why we continue to see these five-man protections where Titus Howard is on an island, where their interior offensive line are on islands.

You're dealing with Chris Jones. I don't understand why it's so often that this guy is crushing pockets and why stunts and twists are working effectively as effectively as they are. when you know the defense that you're dealing with. And I do feel bad for C.J. Stroud and just his passing game as a result, because I think that now you're starting to see scar tissue. We've really been seeing scar tissue since that Halloween night game against the Jets, where you really kind of started to see the wheels fall off of this offense. And it seems like every time they're about to strike a new rhythm,

a game like this comes up that just paints a picture so clearly that even though they are a playoff team, and a lot of that is because the defense is so talented and they do have a legitimate quarterback. The scheme offensively is doing so much to be a limiting factor for them that I can't trust them to do anything but sputter and fall out of the playoffs in the first round. Yeah, it's going to feel like nothing changed over last year like you were getting that. Like this feels like a year of stagnation with them. I mean, I think their best hope is that Baltimore wins the division and they get Pittsburgh at home in the first round and they get to win a playoff game at least to have at least some good taste in their mouth at the end of this season.

but that will just feel like last year when they beat an NFC North team, an NFC, or AFC North Wildcar team that wasn't supposed to be there in Cleveland and then they go to Baltimore the next round and get decimated and get kicked out of the playoffs. I think that's what they're headed for and I think it will be fitting because

that is the problem. The problems that we see with this offense were the problems with the offense last year from the offensive line to the play calling to making things difficult on CJ Stroud at times. And I thought Strout played pretty well in this game And I think the biggest indictment of an offensive environment and a play caller is that when your quarterback plays well and the final score and the final box score doesn't reflect it. We've seen that so many times throughout the season for Houston.

And I didn't have much hope for Bobby Sloke. Obviously, we've been killing them all season. But whatever hope I had went away on Saturday with this game playing against the Chiefs. Just because the reluctance to change anything, like playing all those condensed sets against a Steve Spagnolo defense, I have no way else to say it's one of the dumbest. things I can see. That's the worst defense to play a condensed game plan against just because you know they love the blitz, you know they love to send corners. That Josh Williams

cornerback blitz where you got the free run on C.J. Stroud and got a easy sack. You could see that from before the play. In fact, I was watching the Madden cast on Peacock because it was the only version of the broadcast that had the all 22 throughout the game. So I had to listen to Chad Ochosinko or Chad Johnson, whatever he's called him. And Kirk Benkirt,

and Kirk Benkirt, which is going in on Bobby Sloak before that play. And then it just played out like Kurt Benkirt of all people who was going to say, when you're getting cooked by Kurt Benkirt for three hours on a Saturday, it might be time to look for a new offensive coordinator. How many different feats are there for these games?

I don't even know what you're talking about. I had no idea that that was even a thing. Now I'm jealous because it sounds entertaining. No, it was not a good broadcast. The only like element that was maddeny was that they put like the icon, the buttons on the field. It was basically the

all 22 with like X buttons, like Xbox buttons on the on the field. Yeah, I feel like the guy who we make, you know, I'd be like, oh, you know, my dad doesn't know how to get this stream. Now I'm like, how do you get this? What version is that? What do I push there? All right.

So that's, we don't need to spend any more time on the Texas. I feel like we're all in the same place. If they surprise us, fine. I don't think they're going to surprise us. I think to Deontes point a couple of shows ago, I think DeMico Rines is going to have to figure out after this season what is the proper path to. get this offense on track because he's got a defense with two pass rushers and with a great corner and that plays with a specific style. And you have a, I'm with you. I thought, I think Stroud,

the high level plays are still there. Like there were moments in that game where I'm like, oh, he's, he's playing well. And then there are times I think where he'll press a little bit or make mistakes, but I just don't really blame him for that. I still have all my CJ Stroud stock. And I think if you just, let's fix some of this stuff and see what it looks like next year if this season's going to be a wash. All right. AFC North, Ravens do cover a favorite in this rivalry, this Harba-Talmon rivalry. They do cover. Ruiz, you said you set the goalposts on the preview show. You said you wanted to see a double-digit win. They win 34-17. There were some rocky moments earlier. It felt like, oh, my gosh, this is going to be a classic Steelers game here. But they end up getting it

done. Offense looks really good, just sort of a complete win where they were in, control late there. How do you feel about this division? How do you feel about the Ravens? Did that change your mind about anything with either one of these two teams? I mean, it definitely changed by Mon of the Ravens. I mean, I've had high hopes all along. I thought they could be a team that plays like plays a game like this, but they had to go out and do it. And they finally did it. It just, it wasn't just the win, the double digit win. They win by 17 points. It was the fact that they committed only two penalties. It was the fact that outside of that dime, honestly, from Russell Wilson and Calvin Austin, they didn't really give up a lot of explosive plays.

It was the fact that Justin Tucker made both of his kicks and all four of his extra points and we didn't have to worry about that. I felt like you probably felt and everybody probably felt early in the fourth quarter, 24 to 17. They're driving to put the game away. Rashad Bateman stops on his route. Mika Fitzpatrick intercepts the pass and I was like, oh man, here we go. Ravens are going to lose another one of these stinkers.

I'm going to go on the pot and try to explain it away. But no, thankfully, thank God for Russell Wilson because two plays later. He didn't make us wait long, did he? He threw one of the worst pick sixes of the season. And from there, the Ravens didn't really look back. Marlon Humphrey takes it back for a touchdown. But I don't want to say this was the Ravens A game. I think they left a little bit on the table on offense.

I thought they could have played a little bit better on the events. But this was one of their better games of the season, one of the more impressive performances since that Buffalo game all the way back in September. We saw what happens when you take away Lamar Jackson as a runner. That was the game plan for Pittsburgh. They did not hide the fact that they didn't. want Lamar Jackson with the ball in his hands as a runner, but then Derek Henry rips off 165 yards rushing, and it doesn't matter. It's just a picker poison offense. And when they're going good and their

receivers are catching the ball and they're not committing dumb pre-snap penalties, they're impossible to stop. I don't know how you stopped them if they don't stop themselves. That's my takeaway from this game. Deontay, what do you think? I mean, I'm in the same boat, right? And we talked about it in the preview show. I thought that Todd Munkin could just lean on easy answers. And it should be enough to win this game. And I thought that they were able to do so because they weren't, I thought that they weren't trying to be as perfect in the passing game. I think that they took chances vertically and they connected. Now, they did take chances when they played against Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh earlier this season. And I just felt like guys weren't separating

and that they didn't get the necessary playmaking from Zay Flowers and Rashat Bateman to be able to kind of break that game open. But that happened this week. I thought the play calls to do so were much better than they were into Pittsburgh when they lost that game. And then the second thing, and maybe more importantly to me, this was something that I noted was that Pittsburgh is maybe the best under center run defense in the NFL because they can just cut their edges loose. They like to blitz a lot when you're under center. They can really load up the box. And because they're a cover one team and you're under center, they know it's either going to be a downhill handoff or a play action pass. Right. And when you're a cover one team,

that really kind of liberates you to play as aggressively as you want to. Once you get in the gun, now guys do have to play a little bit slower. And I think you saw that reflected. They average seven yards per carry out of the shotgun in the run game in their first matchup, they just didn't do it enough. This week, 24 runs out of shotgun. They average 6.8 yards per carry. And it's not even about Lamar Jackson holding the ball. It's the fact that a defense has to honor it, which now opens up the run game for Derek Henry. And I think that seeing him be that productive out of the gun as a runner is maybe the best thing that could have come out of this for this offensive coaching staff, because now they know they don't have to kind of toggle between

world. I think the Todd Monkin now can really focus on getting his best 11 on the field, playing in 12 personnel as often as they can, and leaning on the mixture of the threat of Lamar as a runner, the threat of any time that Derek Henry can turn what should be a three-yard gain into a 20-yard gain, and the fact that they can get to a play action game to be able to open up those throws in the middle of the field. If you're getting those things in Lamar is playing as well from the pocket as he's been over the last five weeks, we're right back to what we were saying when they were at their hottest in the middle of the season, there is nothing you can do with this offense. By the way, Mike Tomlin, you owe me five bucks.

Why? We talked about how Baltimore would probably use the shotgun run game in this game after the under center run game wasn't working. And, you know, I'm watching the game as a fan on Saturday. It's not often I get to watch the NFL as a fan when I'm not working. So I decided to put a couple of beans on the game. I bet five bucks on Lamar's rushing over parlayed with Derek Henry's rushing under. assuming that we're going to see a lot of zone read keeps.

And then the Steelers had the fantastic game plan of letting Derek Henry beat them. And then he ran for 165 yards. And I lost the five bucks. I did win a lot of money betting on Zayflower's, though. See, there you come. Now you're relatable to the audience. Now they know what that's like when you're just yelling at the coach. What are you doing?

I got $10 on this weird. After that second drive, I was like, God damn it. Eventually, he's going to adjust, right? He's going to adjust. They're going to stop forcing the Gibbs on the. zone reads, but no, it never happened. So the Ravens and the Steelers are now both 10 and 5. Like I said, if the season ended today, Steelers win the AFC North,

so they still have a shot at it, but I got to beat the Chiefs. Can they beat the Chiefs on Christmas? If not, Ravens are going to be in a great position. Ravens are at Houston and Home versus the Brown. So it's not over yet, but man, yeah, I'm with you. Their offense looked fantastic. Now, they would have to potentially go, even if they win the division, they'd be the three seed.

they got to go to Buffalo, most likely, and then 2 KC. So can you beat Josh Allen? I mean, I'm getting some goos, some chills just thinking about those rounds with a little round robin, Lamar versus Josh Allen. Winner takes on Mahomes, a fun AFC. But no matter how you slice it, it's not going to be an easy path for them. They're going to have to earn it. But you know what sports are weird sometimes where the team finally breaks through in a situation like this, where they have to go through all these guys hard path.

and finally get there. So we're set up for some good matchups there. And the Steelers, like I said, we shall see what they're able to do. They might slip down to the five seed and then would have to go to Houston in the first round. The Buffalo Bills just mentioned them. Got a little scary for them against 14.5 point favorites against the New England Patriots. They hang on to win 24, 21, improved to 12 and 3. Deante, not the most inspiring performance.

and Josh Allen suffers a little bit of an elbow injury there in the second half, doesn't miss any time. I know early in that game, you were having some concerns about that Bill's defense, especially coming off their past two weeks. Where are you now that the game has ended with this Bill's team? If they get eliminated in the playoffs, it's going to be because they can't stop the passing game from who they're playing against. That to me is the only thing that is in between them and potentially making a Super Bowl run

because everything else is in place. You get to watch them after, I think the first couple of drives, maybe the opening script was not the best from Joe Brady. But I think once he kind of came back home to the idea that their offensive line could do whatever they wanted within the core of the formation, James Cook had another really productive day. There was nothing they could do with Buffalo's running game. New England couldn't. I thought that Josh Allen after the first quarter was basically playing at about the same-ish level before the elbow got hurt. I think that cold weather kind of got in the way, had a few missed opportunities. but for the most part, their offense was fine.

The issue was that they just couldn't get off the field defensively, and a rookie should never look that good against a Super Bowl contender. I think that was maybe my biggest takeaway for as highly as I think about Drake May, and I've just been kind of noodling on the idea of if any of these rookie quarterbacks can be a top 10 guy by the end of next season, Drake May to me might be the one who's most likely when you're looking at when he's dialed in, how aggressive he can be, his improving pocket feel. But I think that it was just so often watching Drake May work in the pocket,

totally comfortable to attack the middle of the field. He was picking on this defense from the pocket. I don't know if I trust him, even at home, unless the weather is just a total, just game-ender terms of passing games, that they can do anything with Lamar Jackson, with how he's been playing over the last six weeks. And certainly not a Patrick Mahomes, who we know how he plays in a playoff environment,

and we've seen it happen in Buffalo already for them. So I think there are still a lot of things to like about Buffalo's season. and if you ask me right now who I'm picking, I might still lean in that direction because of who Josh Allen has been down the stretch. I just think that the margins are a little bit tighter right now than I would have initially coming to the weekend thinking they were. I feel like my takeaway from this weekend in games

is that the AFC's top three, really the only three teams that matter in the UFC this year, were the same as last year. It feels like all of these teams are basically in the same spot. We remember Buffalo season for being so tumultuous, I guess, is the word to call it. But by December, they were rolling. Like, Josh Allen was the MVP candidate. He wasn't turning the ball over anymore. They had discovered the run game when they were pounding teams with the run game. I remember the Cowboys game specifically. Joe Brady had put his

spin on the offense. It's like everything we're talking about right now, and it's the same for the defense where that's the concern. The past defense is the concern. And I also think, like, we've looked at the last two weeks with Josh Allen just going insane and they're scoring 40 plus points. but those happen in climate-controlled environments. Those happen indoors where you're not going to be indoors for the AFC playoffs ever. There isn't a game where you're going to be indoors. You're either going to Kansas City, maybe you're playing in Buffalo. Those are two cities with bad weather in January.

So expecting Josh Allen to continue to be this guy and to continue to outscore offense, I just think is a lot to ask of the guy who I know he's going to win MVP this year, but he was playing at this high level last year, too, especially going into the playoffs. So for me, it's sort of the same conversation with Buffalo that it was last year. I think until they get a lot of talent on that defensive side, it's going to be hard to consider them the favorites going into any playoff, because that defense can just be picked apart by the best quarterbacks in the NFL,

and that's all you face in the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, that game against the Chiefs last year, I mean, their offense went up and down the field, and it wasn't enough. Now they miss a kick there at the end, but their defense could not, and that was not like a great chiefs offense. They were playing against.

The other thing is this isn't a, and I think Sean McDermott's a very good coach, I think he's a very good defensive coach, but he doesn't have the resume of any one-off playoff matchup against a great quarterback. Hey, can you match that guy and slow them down? They just haven't done that. I mean, Burrow got him a couple years ago.

I just mentioned Mahomes. Mahomes has got him in the past as well. So that is the other question with this team. I still, yeah, I mean, those three I'm looking at last year's playoffs, because I wanted to see, yeah, Buffalo was two, Kansas City was three, and the Ravens were one last year. Those were the top three seasons, and Houston was four, for that matter. It's going to be the top four very well. It could be exactly the same, which is pretty unusual, I think.

Most of the time, at least some team has the weird injury or something and comes back down to Earth a little bit. So Bill, still in a good spot, 12 and 3, great spot to get the to at least get the two seat here if they win one of their last two games, although that Allen elbow injury now becomes something to watch also. All right, the last two teams we didn't talk about yet. Chargers and the Broncos, I guess the question would be, do either of these teams have a disruptor-type wild card weekend in them? You're both shaking your head. Even the Chargers after that Thursday night performance against a good defense, their offense

looked really good. They got the head coach. they got the creative defensive mind. They got the quarterback playing well. Ruiz, you still don't think they have enough. No, because they don't have enough talent on defense. I know they had a good second half, but we saw Denver just march up and down to the field

and do whatever they wanted in the first half. Justin Herbert is great. Obviously, he played another fantastic game and basically will them to that win in the second half. But he has the bum ankle. He's not getting a lot of support outside of a rookie rod receiver. And it seems like every time he goes down and gets sacked, he's grabbing at that ankle.

So it's a slippery slope there. You have this great version of Justin Herbert where just one hit away from having a version of Justin Herbert that is not capable of carrying this offense. I don't know how many quarterbacks are capable of doing it, especially in the way that Justin Herbert was doing it on Thursday night with some of those throws. Deont, you're in the same boat.

You're not seeing it. This is just their third time this year having a passing success rate over 50%. No, I don't think that this is a wildcard disruptor type of team. It was pointing up, some would say. Start of a trend. I don't know if I see it that way. I don't know if I see it that way.

Greg Roman's cooking. The second half was great from Herbert, but this isn't the first time we've talked about this team, maybe being behind the eight ball. They put the ball in Justin Herbert's hands, and then he goes in a perfect robot quarterback mode and keeps them in it. And I think that that does speak to what they can be

in a moment of desperation. The issue was just that, and I think this may be applies to both teams, you got a little glimpse at what is keeping them from being in that elite class of the top AFC teams with the Chargers. A, it's Greg Roman and the lack of run game. I just think the interior offensive line just isn't dominant enough

to be able to move the ball on early downs for them to control game situations the way that they would like to. And then on the defensive end, they just don't have enough experience. They don't have enough juice at safety outside of Derwin James. Their linebackers are very limited in terms of roles and capabilities. And I said this last week, right? Jesse Mentor has done a great job, I think,

of understanding what to do to, to squeeze blood from stones with this defensive personnel. And when Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa are playing at their best, you do have enough pass rush to make quarterbacks uncomfortable. But once the Broncos got in the heavier personnel, just started running the ball at them, you just saw all the issues that still exist with this defensive personnel. They don't have great tacklers in the middle of this defense.

Their defensive interior can still be taken advantage of. And I think that the Broncos' offensive line was definitely good enough to expose that. and what happens if they do have to see a Pittsburgh or a Baltimore or a Buffalo for that matter in the first round of the playoffs. If they are seeing a Pittsburgh, maybe you can sell me on just hey, like they don't get enough moonballs to be able to beat the Chargers and the charges are able to score late in the game to beat them. But outside of that, you look at the rest of the top of the AFC. I just don't see how they're not chasing multiple scores before halftime and basically playing catch up the rest of the way. just realized Harbao versus Harbaugh would be setting up if the Ravens again

we're going to get more Harbaugh stories I hope you're ready My heart cannot take Lamar versus Herbert in the playoffs I'm sorry I'm opting out of that week I'm not showing up for the podcast I'm not doing any work Life is about hard choices You're going to have to make a choice

You can only stay Yeah we're going to have to come up with something You can only profess your love to one of them I'm giving it to the rest of their career Lamar needs it more than Herbert does at this point If he gets upset by the Chargers Especially Greg Roman, a great Roman revenge game. I can't stop it, a successful Greg Roman revenge game.

No, I'm going with Lamar. Sorry, Herbert. Also, this weekend is why I feel comfortable saying that the elite quarterbacks, the top four to me are Herbert, Mahomes, Lamar, and Allen. Because a high ankle sprained is taking out every other quarterback in the NFL. And with Herbert and Mahomes, you hardly even noticed it. There you go. Broncos have a 74% chance to make the playoffs still.

Bengals, dolphins, Colts still kind of hanging around there. It's interesting because the Broncos finish at the Bengals and then home versus the Chiefs. But that could be Carson Wentz in that game in Week 18. So it could be a game they need, but they might be facing a Chiefs team that has nothing to play for and is playing their backup. Sorry, that's the AFC. We take a break. We come back with some awards for Week 16. All right.

We are back on the Ringer NFL show. Some awards for week 16. I'll start. The 1-2-3 Cancun team, congratulations to the New York Giants. Not a bad flight, right? You can get the go from Newark if you want to, down to Mexico.

I mean, 34 to 7 against a rookie quarterback making his first start in the NFL. They lose to the Atlanta Falcons. They are 2 and 13 on the season. They have lost 10 in a row. only the Carolina Panthers have a worst point differential this season. And this isn't a one-season thing. Last 10 seasons, the only teams with fewer wins than the New York Giants are the Jets and the Jaguars. They have been outscored. Their point differential is 31st, only ahead of the Jets for the last 10 years.

So New York Giants playing out the string. One, two, three, Cancun. Hope you got some nice places to stay. maybe you can come up with a reason to just actually not just no show in the game, but just don't even show up in week 18. Go get that vacation started early. So there you go. A little shout out to the New York Giants. So I feel like we barely talked about this year because they've just sucked and there's been no reason to really mention them because they're so irrelevant. All right. That's my first one. I'm in the holiday spirit. Ruiz, what do you got? I'm going to give the Raiders to reap what you sow award for hiring Antonio Pierce as their head coach. Like if you wanted to do a tank job, don't have Antonio Pierce run it. I don't know if you saw this after the game.

He was asked if he regrets like them winning the game and falling so far out of the race for the top pick. And he said, that's the question you got to ask of Tom Telesco. I don't care. And that's the thing. That's the problem with a coach like this. You hire a football guy. You bring them into that environment. Don't think you're going to be able to go around tanking.

Starting Aiding Connell isn't going to be enough. And I feel like this was like a massive blow to the Raiders future prospects, especially short-term. This is a team that needs a quarterback. I mean, it's been so long since they've had a quarterback that they can be excited for. I'm thinking maybe going back to 2017 when Derek Carr was still a young guy who looked like he could be breaking to the top 10 and it never happened. But this was a devastating loss for them and I feel bad for their fans that it had to have him. But I guess you shouldn't be surprised they were playing Mac Jones. So now they drop to six according to Tankathon in the draft order.

So maybe I'm being too harsh on the Giants, you know, because according to that reasoning, they got the number one pick now. They're the only two-win team in the entire NFL. So maybe they know what they're doing. They're one, two, three, Cancun. Yes, but they also are in position to maybe draft a quarterback. That was the nicest thing anyone has said about the Giants in the last five years is maybe they know what they're doing. And I didn't even believe it. Yeah.

They're not. They don't. They don't. All right, Deonté, what do you got? What's your first award? You know, it's surprising to me that we're all in the same looking at this the same way because I'm also talking about a tanking team when I was going to give a, Cleveland some credit for making a nice sneaky tank move by starting Dori and Thompson against Cincinnati so we can throw out the rest of the season.

Not that James Lundsen was going to do anything for them. I just thought it was a little bit funny that they went from a quarterback who can't help but throw the ball to the other team to a quarterback who really can't throw the ball to much of anybody. We're 2034 today, but it was for 157 yards and still turned the ball over twice. So if the conversation was that turnovers were an issue and that you weren't efficient enough in the passing game. Have a lot of fun going through the film on that from this Sunday,

trying to convince yourself that DTR is actually the answer. I'm really surprised that he's been able to hang around Cleveland for as long as he has been. He didn't have a productive day on the ground. Like I said, Kevin Sampanke, he had his own read fetish that he needed to address, and he got it out. Maybe he'll go back to James after this game. But, like, honestly, if you watch that game, the Browns had every chance of the world to win it. And if James is out there, they might have messed around and won it and messed up their

their draft spot. So it was a smart move on their part. Where are you with Kevin Stefansky as a head coach? I mean, I think he's obviously a smart offensive play caller when you give him the pieces. But I mean, the last couple of seasons, just how easily things fell apart this season, particular. I know they rallied late last year, but that was never like a team you looked at and were like, whoa, this is a well-coached team that's very good at football. It's been a while since we've been able to say that.

So I wouldn't be surprised if they moved on. And if they do move on, I wouldn't be surprised. if he has to wait a year or two or another, it has to go through another offensive coordinator job to get back to a head coaching job. All right. So I was asking because Deonti, I was wondering, is he worthy of a trade?

And I know we, you and I think have talked about this before. I actually think if he were to get fired, I think he would get a head coaching job in this cycle. But I'm wondering if you're, you know, another team and you're looking at the options out there, maybe Ben Johnson's being a little bit picky.

And Mike Rable picks his, team like in this pool are there going to be better candidates than Kevin that's why i asked it cool yeah i love a coaching trade speculation so and if you're the browns you're just like in this weird place you know are you going to stick with him do you want draft capital so that's why i was asking the brown should fire him and then hire him again you know it's funny from that perspective if i were jacksonville why wouldn't i trade if i can give up a mid to late round pick you know to go get your head coach that you probably wanted to get rid of in the first place. That might be worth it, especially if Ben Johnson is like, hey, I think I've got my place picked out or, you know,

his negotiating terms are a little beyond what Jacksonville is willing to negotiate against. So I could definitely see that. I do think he's probably the toughest guy from a coaching perspective that may be on the quote unquote hot seat to evaluate because so much around him has obviously been kind of dictated to him, right? You land with Deshawn Watson, and now you've got to build an offense around Deshawn Watson. That wasn't your choice of quarterback and not your style of quarterback. And now you're hiring a guy that's outside of your typical coaching tree in Ken Dorsey to figure out this offense. There's just been so many things I think that have gone awry in a way that makes it difficult to properly evaluate who Kevin Stefanski would be. I would just say that he's probably one of those guys that you just got to look at the results and say it just wasn't good enough.

I'm more on Stephen's side that if he didn't get traded for and just got fired, I'm not certain that he would land a head coaching spot. I think that if the market played out a certain way, he could definitely still keep a head job. I just don't think he's going to be as high on the list

for a team that's searching for a head coach now as it was when we were talking in the first month of the season and kind of making jokes about like, hey, maybe Nick Seriani might be out, and this will be a guy who could come back to his local roots. I don't know if he's going to be a very hot name if he is let go of after this, tenure with Cleveland. Yeah, I definitely think

it would be in his best interest to wait either way because he's not going to get one of these top jobs. I think that's going to go to a guy like Ben Johnson. It might go to a guy like Joe Brady or any of these other like hot names and the site, the new names that aren't considered retreads. So don't end up in like Tennessee or so. I guess Tennessee's not going to fire

Calhahan after one year. Oh, perfect, perfect segue, Ruiz, to my next one. Worst coach team that nobody is paying attention to. The Tennessee Titans. I've said it. Said it. Like, okay, I haven't uttered their name. Well, no, we did a little Will Levis talk at one point, Ruiz. But, I mean, Colts outscore him 24-0 in the second quarter, up 31-7 in the third quarter.

I know the final score looked different. They give up 458 yards to the Colts offense. They're 3 and 12. And then I just like zoomed out. This year was supposed to be about like, all right, can you develop Will Levis into anything? No. Disaster. Are you building like a culture?

or something to build on. Like, the Panthers, and I always might disagree. But I feel like Canalis is like, at least there's some seeds of competency with Dave Canales there. Tuba Hubbard's a franchise player. I mean, he carried the team today. I know Bryce is somehow going to get the credit for it. No, Bryce doesn't get the credit today. But yeah, like these other team, you can be a bad team, but still have like some seeds of competency.

Quarterback, no, culture, no. Were special teams in the NFL, by the way, the Tennessee Titans? Maybe history? Maybe I actually think it is in history. Like DVOA history, they had something a couple weeks ago that it was the worst special teams they'd ever charted. So again, I know nobody cares. I don't care because I haven't mentioned their name once and we're after week 16 here.

But that team sucks. The franchise is directionless and they're irrelevant. So Tennessee Titans, congratulations. You're finally getting a word from me. I don't know how in year one the takeaway is like, what are we doing here? But I've been there basically for like the last like month and a half. half. You watch this team and it's like, like you said, Will Levis, I thought we were going to get a chance to evaluate him. And he doesn't even look rosterable half the time. And that falls on the

head coach to me. I look at an offensive line that's had problems and you knew you were going to have problems on the right side of this offensive line all year. Haven't seen a single thing to address that issue, not schematically, not with personnel. They did make a lot of investments in their skill position talent. So that way they could try to get together a drop back passing game. I don't know if we even know if that complication of receivers and running backs works because the scheme has just not put them in a great position to be able to make the most of those guys and the quarterback's been a problem. And to me, if I'm to Nard Wilson and I'm that defense coordinator, it's got to be just like

the worst thing to deal with on a week-to-week basis because there have been points in times that they look really competent defensively and you're just kind of seeing them let go of the road because they can't get a stop and reliably feel like their offense can even maintain possession of the ball, let alone try to build up any, you know, any scoring possession. So this is probably of the teams that are in a clear rebuild, they are probably the most directionless right now in the NFL. I was about to defend Will Levis's honor,

but it's one 10 a.m. on the East Coast on the Sunday. Now it's not the time in place. This is just the burden of being a quarterback rancor. I have to watch these guys every week. He looks better than rosterable. But I would understand if I was on the outside looking in, which is the only way you should be watching this team if you would think that Will Levis isn't rosterable.

Because by God, five times a game he's going to make it. look like it. There you go. All right. Ruiz, what do you got? You got some more? Yeah, I'm going to give, I'm going to keep grinding my axe against Ben Johnson not being head coaching material. And I think what they named that fake fumble play is more proof that this guy just doesn't have the juice. The stumble bum, that's what they're calling it. That's what they called the play. I guess in there, I don't know if there's a play sheet drawn up somewhere in Detroit's playbook, but according to Jemir Gibbs, that's what they called it. Terrible name. We need a better name for such a cool play. I don't even know what that means.

Well, you stumble and the other guy falls on his bum or you are a stumbling bum. I don't know. Deontay, what's the rule? I hate to be this guy. I hate trying to be. I hate doing the well, actually, as a coach thing. I know that they call it a stumble bum because there's a ball security drill that's called that. And that's basically what you're simulating is using your offhand as you're stumbling to balance you up against the ground and protecting the football while people are trying to punch it out.

That does not make it a good name. So I'm not here to say that, you know, that it should be better in Stevens mind than it currently is because it is kind of a silly, asinine thing to call a play or a drill. But I do know that it has roots in something that actually happens in a football field. It sounds too British to me. That's my main beef with it. I would agree with that. Yeah, I can get on board with that. Via ESPN, Jared Goff said it started on Monday with Ben asking me if he thought I could actually fumble on purpose and pick it back up.

And I was like, quote, I don't know about that. and we kind of got off of that pretty quickly. I bet you did. First of all, that's an unhinged question to ask somebody. Do you think you could risk possession of the football and pick it up and do that on purpose? Have you not seen anything about an oblong shaped ball? Have we learned nothing about football? He's disgusted.

The defensive guys disgusted at the idea that offensive coaches are asking such questions. Wait, so he wanted him to fumble the ball actually instead of just doing the stumble routine at first. I got to change my tune on Ben Johnson. guys is cooking. I think the story was, I believe from this ESPN article that they saw Jordan Love do this like by accident in a game and they were like let's go, you know, let's go ahead. It was week one last year. It was the same like route pattern too. Like it was like a little like Y Leach style pattern too. So they copied it bit for bit. And I would imagine that Jared Goff has some practice, some experience fumbling to football and stumbling around in the backfield. He does it, you know, he does it a couple times

a year. I think that's what he meant. But the picking it back up part, I think he didn't want risk that, which that's good. That's the kind of judgment I want from my quarterback. Jared cough, mature behind his ears. All right. Deontay, what do you got? Anything else? Just not a very serious one. I just wanted to, in the spirit of bowl season, you know, you get all kinds of names and in tags you can put on bowls. There's a Duke's Mayo bowl. There's a Lockheed Martin Armed Forces Bowl, which is just like the most insane thing to me, conversation for a different day. There's a gas for a rila bowl. And then in Miami on Sunday, you get the all-time depression bowl between Mike McDaniel and Kyle Shanahan,

or like the through-the-looking glass bowl where you just get these guys who have spent so much time constructing their beautiful offense and all these explosive plays that are supposed to come off of it. And then you look up in Miami is throwing a bunch of swings and checkdowns and drags to Johnny Smith, who has been a very productive player to give him credit. And then on the other side, you've got Brock Purdy, I guess, doing like a Matthew Stafford impression at times, trying to drive the ball in the middle of the field, aggressively to varying effect right now because they don't have their full compliment of wide receiving talent. I can't even begin to guess what that conversation at midfield must have been

like or what the conversation on the phone is going to be like between these guys as they go back to their respective corners in the NFL. But that was a rough one to watch with these two teams. I'd imagine it was Mike McDaniel going, trust me, don't do it. Don't do it. And you guys know what I'm talking about. All right. I think that is a good way to end. end it, the Ringer NFL show. Week 16. Appreciate everyone listening. We will be back when we will be back.

We'll be back later in the week to preview week 17. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays to everybody. Thank you to Stephen Ruiz. Thank you to Deontay Lee, Dan Comer. Additional production supervision by Connor and Arjuna Ramco, Paul. And of course, Christopher Sutton producing.

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