The Ringer NFL Show - Week 17 Recap: Another Dominant Performance From the Ravens, Eagles Continue to Struggle, and the Bucs Fail to Clinch the South | Dual Threat

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

Nora and Steven are ending the year by recapping the action from Week 17, starting with the Baltimore Ravens blowing out the Miami Dolphins (3:10). They discuss Lamar Jackson potentially locking up the MVP, how good the Ravens are, any red flags about the Dolphins, and more. Then they run through their winners and losers for the week, including the Bills, Chiefs, Seahawks, Rams, and more (21:59). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Producer: Isaiah Blakely Social: Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, everyone, it's Ariel Hawani, and I wanted to let you know that each and every week, I'm part of a great program called The Ringer MMA Show. I hosted alongside two absolutely brilliant minds. Their names, Chuck Mendenhall and Pizzie Carroll, and every Thursday, a new episode drops where we preview the weekend in mixed martial arts and react to all the biggest news. Plus, after every UFC pay-per-view, we give you a post-fight show. So this is what you have to do. Just follow the Ringer M-M-M-A show on your Spotify app.

So you don't miss an episode. We'll talk to you then. 17 is in the books. And we have two conference number one seeds locked in. The playoff picture is starting to come into focus. Stephen, we've only got, I mean, this is the penultimate Sunday show of the season. We've got a lot to talk about. But let's just start so that we lay the groundwork.

let's just start with where we are in terms of playoffs eating because a lot changed this week. A lot is still going to change and get finalized next week as well. But just so we know where we are, the Ravens in the AFC and the 49ers in the NFC have the number one seeds locked up by locked up. We know that the path to the Super Bowl in those conferences runs through those cities. In the AFC, second seed yet to be determined. Bill's Dolphins going to battle it out. Both of those teams currently in the playoff picture. The Chiefs

wrapped up the AFC West title today by beating the Bengals who were therefore eliminated. Right now, the Jaguars are leading a very chaotic AFC South. The Browns, the Browns make it nice and easy for us. The Browns are locked in as the five seed in the AFC. Congratulations to them. Dolphins and Colts right now, the other teams on the inside of the playoff picture, but the Texans, the Steelers who won today, also still involved. The NFC, San Francisco, Dallas right now, number two, the Lions who lost to Dallas on Saturday night,

controversial ending. We'll talk about that in the three spot for now. Buccaneers. still holding on to that, that division winner spot in the NFC South. The Eagles who lost today, we'll get to that too. The Rams clinched today a spot thanks to the Steelers beating the Seahawks. The Seahawks, however, still holding onto the seven seed right now. The Packers, Vikings, and Saints still in theory in the running. So that's where we are. The headline game today is Ravens Dolphins.

Ravens beat the Dolphins 56 to 19, locked up that number one seat in the AFC. And this was just an impressive statement by Lamar and Baltimore a week after an impressive statement game against San Francisco. This looks like an incredibly formidable team. Stephen, what was your biggest takeaway from the game of the week? From Baltimore's perspective, I think we're starting to see how this team differs from the 2019 team. And I think that 2019 team is the reason why we don't trust Baltimore as much as maybe we would other teams that win 13 and three and just blew out two of the best teams in the NFL. And like really, when you look back throughout the season, Baltimore's losses are really them beating themselves. And I know we like to say that a lot and teams will say that about themselves.

But in this case, like the loss of the Steelers, the overtime loss of the Colts, these were games at Baltimore. It was clearly the better team for 60 minutes and somehow lost those games. But whenever they've gone up against like these teams where they can make a statement, I'm thinking about obviously the 49ers game, obviously this game, but also like the Lions game, for instance, or the Bengals game at the beginning of the year and even the Bengals game on Thursday night where Burrow gets hurt, like this team has come out and made those statements emphatically.

and this was just more of the same. And there was like a time right at the beginning of the game where it was like, oh, this was going to be a shootout. The Dolphins offense is fired on all cylinders. The Baltimore's defense doesn't look like it has answers. And then by midway through the second quarter, it was like, oh, wait, it's clear who the better team is. And then Baltimore just outclassed them from there. And I thought it started with the quarterback position with Lamar Jackson playing like he did.

Then obviously on the other side, how to have played. In terms of Lamar, I think you're right that he's, answered basically every question. And in particular, in this game, he was so good against the Blitz. And that is a thing that has been, and even including in that 2019 season, right? Like that has been a thing that has been held up as what does he do when he's defended in this way? And is there a blueprint of where you can get to Lamar?

And some of that has always been a bogus narrative. But that is an area in which statistically, in past iterations of this offense, and that's probably the right way to talk about it rather than just to say it's just Lamar as a player. It has been a point at which they struggled. But first half, they come out in this game and he's five of six for 171 yards and two touchdowns when Miami blitzed, which was his most passing yards facing the blitz in any half of his career according to next gen stats. And look, sometimes blitz stats can be funky if different teams and different calculators, different stat services define even what a blitz is very differently. At the same time, this is a dolphin's defense that has been really, really spicy lately, including in that game against the Cowboys, which was sort of their statement win.

The week before that, they shut out the Jets. They did give up 28 to the Titans, but 15 to the commanders, then 13 to the Jets, 13 to the Raiders, 21 to the Chiefs, 17 to the Patriots. You have to go back to October and that Eagles game to find a game in which this Dolphins defense gave up 30 points or more. and the Raven scored 56, which is just a stunning amount of points. 14 more points we're playing Raven sounds. Like, they were that close to the dolphins getting a taste of their own medicine. It really is remarkable.

So it's about the way that they did it. It's about how sort of emphatic of a performance it takes to score that many points. And also about where in the season they are, right? I mean, you know, they've locked up the top seat. They've locked up the buy. So presumably next week, probably some guys will be able to get some rest, particularly in the secondary. There are some injuries piling up for Baltimore.

And there are a lot of nicks and bruises. So they can certainly use whatever time off they can get. But if this is where the season in terms of the stakes of it ended, it really could not possibly have ended on a higher note, on a more dominant note for Baltimore. They were chanting MVP for Lamar. I have a hard time seeing how anyone else is going to get it now with the way that he has come out in the last two weeks and made his case. So it almost makes you a little stress just because they're going to be going into the playoffs. And you could already hear some of the reporting on the broadcast about what race.

Coaches and players were saying in the production meetings about, don't get it, you know, we're still the underdogs. We were the underdogs against San Francisco. Just because we lost doesn't mean that we're the big favorites for everything now. And we don't want that identity. Some of that is par for the course. Most teams sort of like to carry that identity more than they do to emphasize themselves as front runners. But it's hard to see Baltimore going into the playoffs in a stronger, seeming position.

You want to pick any nits? Like is there anything where it seems like there might be a vulnerability that a different team on a different day, you know, with a quarterback who maybe wasn't having the shaky day that Tua did with a slightly healthier defense for the dolphins where it could have been a little bit more exploited? Injuries. That's the one thing I can come up with. It's the one thing they can't really control is injuries and that we saw them pile up

a little bit today. Marlon Humphrey leaves the game pretty early on. Obviously, they've lost Mark Andrews. Kyle Hamilton didn't play in this game. They lost J.K. Dobbins back at the beginning of the year. Like, this is a team that has dealt with adversity. Like, they've dealt with injuries. This isn't one of those teams that has dominated the league because they've stayed

healthy and nobody else around the league has. It's not like that. But in terms of like on-field stuff, like, I don't know. Like, the things that you would be worried about, the cornerback depth, for instance, hasn't been a problem all year, and it hasn't been a problem because they had this defensive coordinator and Mike McDonald and this coaching staff and this team, this front seven that like every hit they've taken this year on both sides of the ball, it hasn't seemed to affect them at all.

Like, J.K. Dobbins goes down. The running game is still good. Mark Andrews goes down. That was like the one guy where you're like, oh, this could be serious. Isaiah likely is making one-handed catches on fourth down. Like he looks like Mark Andrews out there. The defense, again, there's some, like the secondary. There are two best players on the secondary. We're out of this game for a majority of the game. And they just shut down the most explosive passing game we've seen over the last two years. I have nothing. I don't know. I don't know what to say about this team. They are the best team in football. And I think we've kind of been talking about them in these terms like, oh, it looks different this time. Like going back to October, they've checked every box. And there hasn't been

that red flag game outside of those games I mentioned earlier where they beat themselves. This wasn't like Dallas losing to San Francisco on Sunday night and then being like, oh, no, it's happening to Dallas again. Those weren't those losses. It wasn't Miami losing today to another great defense on the road and you see two a struggle in the same way. They have none of those losses. So I don't know.

I don't know what to say about this, David, like what they're weakness is. They're just so balanced is the thing. And, you know, this game was tight for almost, for the better part of the first half. This was a close. this was a one-point football game. And then Baltimore marches down the field, they get the incredible Odell catch, which, I mean, that's a play that has not always been there for this team

because of the quality of the receivers. Then they go on the drive where it was right before the turnover where they got the ball back and scored before halftime. But they, you know, you could see them sort of sussing out where Miami's defense was and they can just turn back into this, you know, super run heavy. I think they started that drive with something like six, six runs and one pass. And they were moving the ball really, really, really effectively. But then all of a sudden they use that to set up the deep shots, to set up the shot plays,

to get the explosive passing plays. And then they get the, they have the turnover. And maybe if you're starting to think like, oh, boy, here it goes. And then they just get it right back with the interception right before the halftime. And that's what this team feels like to me is just there's so many different ways that they can win games that when something starts to go wrong, there's another part of the team that can help them out. So, you know, it's no fun to overly prognosticate it. they're going to be a really, really, really hard team to beat in the playoffs. They obviously have the inside track.

And it's just really exciting to see a team and a quarterback who's had this potential really seem like it's getting realized. And to me, it's not just that they're the most complete team and the best team in the AFC. I think, and look, this is sort of easy to say because of what happened with the 49ers, but they really do seem like the most complete and the most powerful team of the league right now. Yeah.

And before this game, I was willing to entertain like the Dolphins having a real shot at winning the Super Bowl and going and representing the AFC in the Super Bowl. I don't know after this one. This was a red flag game for me. And it's because of what I said before, it looked a lot like these other big failures on big stages that we've seen from this team.

I thought at the beginning of the game, like it was clear. the opening script was good for Mike McDaniel. But once they got off that opening script, I think they only scored one more touchdown after that. I think they might have only scored one more time after that. And that's a big red flag. And you could kind of see it when you're watching the game.

You could kind of feel like Baltimore getting closer and closer. Like the windows were getting tighter and tighter with every throw that two was completing. They were still moving the ball. Right. And then all of a sudden, that damn breaks and it's over. Like, they can't do anything on offense. Once, like, to steal a phrase from Solac, he says, like, you throw a grain of sand in the machine.

it just disrupts everything. I think that's what happened again here. And when you go up against these coaches and these teams in the playoffs, these defenses in the playoffs like Spags, like Mike McDonald, even Sean McDermott to a certain extent, like you're going to run into these game plans. And still, we're closing it on two years now, this version of the Dolphins offense,

they still haven't proven they can beat that style of defense. They can't win that style of game. Well, and it does seem like I don't know if it's that. the opposing coaches get better at recognizing what they're dealing with. Or it always seems like the players on the field take a drive or two to kind of warm up to Miami's team speed just to kind of get in the, get in the rhythm of this is how the math works against these guys. It's so unique too with them, right? Right. It's just different. It's a different feeling. And that's not to say that that can make someone fast enough to keep up with Tyree Kill if they're not fast enough to keep up with

Tyree Kill. But I do think something tends to shift when guys go up against the dolphins, whereas the game goes on, you know, the motions become a little bit less distracting. The eye candy becomes a little bit less distracting. It just becomes a little bit more familiar and comfortable, which happens in every game to an extent. But I think does happen against Miami more because they are, they're unique. which is a really powerful tool,

but the more they play someone especially, and especially if we're talking about heading into next week against Buffalo, not a perfect defense, not a defense that always makes smart choices, but a defense that knows the Miami Dolphins really, really well, it's a concern for them

because something that they do have in their arsenal is the fact that it's novel and you don't go up against it every week. But if you're the bills, you kind of know, what you're dealing with at a certain point. And if we're going to talk about the, the Ravens injuries, look, this is a Dolvin's team

that's already playing without Xavierine Howard. And Jalen Phillips already out with the Achilles tear that happened a couple months ago. And then Bradley Chubb apparently probably has a torn ACL and went out in this game and with what looked to be a really serious injury. Obviously, you know, MRI, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We'll wait, we'll hope, we'll do all the dates, but at this point, there's a solid chance that this is the Dolphins defense that again

has been really solid, more than solid, but is talking about going into the playoffs and going into week 18 against Buffalo with the division on the line, missing the two highest impact pass rushers that they hoped would be, that they hoped would be with them at this point. Obviously, one they've already sort of gotten used to and the Chub thing would be sudden, but that's a big deal for them. Because no matter how good they've looked lately, that's just a huge injury, especially when they're already without Phillips and dealing with some other stuff defensively. Yeah, because it felt like their pass rush was really, like I know it just happened to line up

with Jalen Ramsey's return. And I think there's like obvious correlation there. But their defensive turnaround, quote unquote, was based on their pass rush starting to get home more often. And it's hard to see that continuing without Phillips and now without Chubb. Like, that's, that's tough. But I thought you brought up a good point about, like, getting used to playing the Dolphins offense. It kind of, this kind of weird, weird comp, but it kind of feels like the NFL's version

of playing like a triple option offense in cops, like playing Navy or Army. Like, you're not used to it. You don't practice against it. And the more you practice against it, the more you're going to get used to it, the better you can defend it. But I do wonder as, like, these trends, like, what makes, Miami's offense unique isn't going to make them unique in like a year or two from now. Because you can already start to see teams like stealing that motion they do.

The Ravens did. The Ravens score or got a big play on it. And they've been doing stuff like that all year long. It wasn't just this game. And they've been kind of, the Ravens haven't got a lot of credit for it, but they're kind of doing a lot of the stuff that the 49ers and Dolphins are doing with Patrick Ricard in the place of Alkin Gold and Kyle Eustach.

So it does make you wonder about like the, expiration date on this offense being this elite unit because like as we get deeper into this and let's say like they don't upgrade at quarterback and this is how their offense has to operate I think like this game might be like a microcosm of their long term issues if the rest of the league does catch up so to speak and defenses do get more used to playing against this type of speed well and look this was not a great game for twoa finished 22 of 38 for 237 yards two touchdowns two interceptions. Both of the interceptions were pretty concerning. He was fairly high on a pretty regular basis and then just did not do a good job of not

telegraphing where he was throwing particularly on some of that stuff over the middle. That just it's it's going to get picked when you're playing a good defense with good middle of the field defenders like Baltimore has those are going to be interceptions. And I thought that this was a pretty concerning performance on the offensive side of the ball for Miami in ways that started with the quarterback just because he was not doing them any favors. And I think there's more, look, some of the novelty on what Miami does, maybe it wears off with time. I think that's a very real thing to be concerned about there. some of it with just the overall team speed, you can't,

you can't beat it when it's working well. But this stuff I would be worried about because you just, you cannot play like that against a good team and expect not to pay the price for it. Yeah, this is where I have a question about too is like so-called anticipation. Is it anticipation or is it predetermination?

And these are the matchups. These are the games and the results where you're like, it might be more predetermination, which isn't always a good thing. When you have Mike McDaniel and you have Tyree Kill and Jalen Waddle, like constraining the defense in ways where they can't even like exploit you for predetermining your throws, like it looks good and they score 70 points. But when you go up against these types of teams, I can't punish you for that. This is how it always looks.

This is how it always looks. It's not a one-off thing with him. And that's the problem. When it's a pattern, like, it's a difficult conversation to have because Tua has been the face of this offense. He's been like the focal point. It hasn't worked when he hasn't been in there. But you have to have that Rams, Jared Gough,

discussion at some point. And you don't want to have it too late. And I think they're in danger of it being too late soon. Because like we started to see some of their defensive players go down. Like these receivers, this style of offense is dangerous for receivers. They take big hits like every game. Jalen Waddle's taking a big hit every game. Tyreek Hill got hurt in this game, shook up.

I don't know. I mean, by the way, both. of those picks, look, if the, if someone in purple hadn't caught it, if someone in teal and Aqua had caught the ball instead, that receiver was going to take a monster hit a second, a split second after catching the ball. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's worrisome. It really is. If Tua hasn't done that thing where you buy like the position groups Christmas presents, buy your receivers the jujitsu lessons you took because they're going to need them. too. All right. I want to ask you more about Bill's Dolphins coming up next week, but I think we're

going to have a chance to talk about that game a little bit in winners and losers. So why don't we take quick break, come back and get to that. All right, we are back on dual threat. Stephen, I have a feeling I know where you're going with this. So who is your first winner of the day? My first winner is us, like the football watching public who gets to watch the AFC East title game next week. It's certainly not the bills because though they won today and they did stay alive in the AFC East race, they beat the Patriots. It was not a good performance by the bills by any means. And it's the type of performance that has you worried about them going into the playoffs. And that's mostly because of what this offense looked like. And the best way to describe this offense was,

is it looked a lot like the type of performances we saw before Kenda Dorsey got fired. Like the new offense looks a lot like the old offense where a lot of it is on Josh Allen's plate. He ran 11 in this game for 44 yards. And they were 44 tough yards. He earned every one of those yards. And he passed the ball. He went 15 for 30 for 169 yards. He had an A dot over 11. A lot of these throws came out of structure. He was scrambling a lot. A lot of design runs. It just felt like a game that we were worried about back in October. And we were so excited about the emergence of James Cook and this run game. But like the run game had been good before Joe Brady took over as offensive coordinator, and now we're seeing defenses kind of adjust to the concepts he liked.

We saw that with New England today. And they didn't really have an answer for that. And their answer was what Buffalo's answer has been for the last three years. Save us, Josh, bail us out and make a play. He made just enough plays in this game. The defense made a lot of plays. The defense is the big reason why they won this. But I'm concerned going into next week's game.

And there's concerns on both sides of that matchup in Miami and Buffalo. But I do think this is kind of the perfect matchup for each. because the bills, like during the windstreet, the defense has been turned around. The past defense has been much better. It's the turn to what we saw it was in September. And I think going up against the Dolphins is a really good test because when we saw this defense at its peak last,

it was just dominating this Dolphins past game. So if it has gotten back to that level, we'll see it again next week. But I want to see this banged up Dolphin defense going up against this new look, quote unquote, Bill's offense in this run game and see how it looks. Because we have seen like a Vic Fangio defense is the perfect style to kind of bring the worst out of Josh Allen. And we'll see that next week if it happens.

Bring the worst out of Josh Allen who already, and I take your point that they were sort of reverting into some of those old tendencies where they're asking him to build them out way too much. But Josh Allen was definitely off in this game. Yeah, that's a good thing. Completed 50% of his passes. It looked, it just looked. Sometimes his throwing motion gets this sort of like herky jerky look to it. And obviously the inaccuracy showed up in a big way. Miami, we talked about the defensive injuries.

So that'll affect kind of what that matchup on paper looks like. But I'm just excited that we get this big, you know, big showdown. The time slots haven't gotten announced yet for next week. But it feels like that's probably going to be the night game. It'll be exciting. it'll be for the division win. Do you want to make a prediction? I'm going to pick the dolphins.

I think the dolphins are going to win. I think Buffalo's defensive turnaround. I don't know how real it is. I think they've just gone up against flawed offenses. We're going to find out. But I am very concerned about this offense all of a sudden. I think one of the problems is that it's still, I think it's still too relied on Josh Allen Hero mode, obviously.

But I don't think they have. have chunk plays within the structure of the offense in ways that they did with Dorsey. I'm not, I've just not seen them. I haven't seen it unless it comes on the ground. And that was the big difference between this week and then the last couple of weeks where the ground game was so productive. And they were able to stick with it the whole game. In this game, they weren't. Even though it was productive down to down, but they weren't getting chunks out of it. And I think that's what the adjustment you're going to see the next couple of weeks against them is just taking away the chunk plays in the ground game, and you kind of get Buffalo's offense to revert back

to the flawed version of it that we saw before this coordinator change. So that's why I'm worried about them. And I think Fangio, like I said, is the perfect coordinator to kind of put Allen in that box. And then it's in Miami, so you're not worried about weather or anything like that. I don't know. I just think it's the perfect scenario for Miami to bounce back after today. I'll take Buffalo. I think I'll go on the both side with this. I think that they have the explosives is an interesting conversation, but in my heart of hearts, I believe that an offense with Josh Allen is going to find a way to access that or at least has the potential to find a way to access that. The other thing is, again, just with what it seems like Miami is going to be

dealing with on the defensive side, it's hard to feel like they can withstand that without being a little bit weaker on that side of the ball. And then the other thing is that just Buffalo's defense against Miami does seem like they understand what they're dealing with. And I do think that that familiarity is becoming an increasingly big problem for the Dolphins. So we'll see who ends up being right. But I'd go on the bill's side of it still. I do think that the Patriots defense, poor things, is they are not deserving of what that offense has made them go through this year.

That's still a good, a good defense. And I think that had to do with some of the bill's struggles today. So this is good. We got a little, we got a little, a little competition to see. There will be a lot riding on that game. It'll be exciting to watch it. Yeah. We should talk about Bond Miller for one second.

He was a healthy scratch, which is very concerned. He hasn't played good football. But I just want to like compare two statements about healthy scratches from both coaches in this game. Yeah, Trent Brown on one side. side. And then you had Von Miller. When Sean McDermott was asked about it, he was like, yeah, it was a really tough decision. Von's a pro and all that. And like, you know, we really need them going forward. And then Bill's asked about Trent Brown not playing. And he's like, yeah,

we activated the players who wanted to play. And that was it. And the best part is Bill had that trademark mumble. So you couldn't tell if he was saying, we activated the players who wanted to play or we activated the players we wanted to play. But I think it was a shot at Trent Brown, not wanting to play football anymore. So you think he said who wanted to play? Yes. That's what I think. Oh, this is fascinating.

All this to say, Bill still has it. Extendable. That's amazing. Still got it. I'm glad you pointed that out. All right. I have a winner. But again, really honestly, again, it's us.

The winner is us. Because, Stephen, I feel like all season you have been clamoring for an increase in referee accountability. That's right. And I'm going to take us back to Saturday night. I'm sure people saw the Cowboys Lions game. Cowboys end up winning last second after a controversial call by Brad Allen's crew that Taylor Decker didn't report as eligible, which negated his catch for a two-point

conversion. That would have won the game for the Lions. Now, separate conversation to have about Dan Campbell's decision to then go for two more times after that. Double down. Triple down. Triple down Dan Campbell. But this afternoon there was a report from Adam Schefter that Brad Allen's crew is getting

downgraded for the playoffs. And it was all very, you know, imprecise in terms of what was actually going to happen. But the report was that we would see less of them or they would get less significant games during the playoffs. And I just wanted to have a chance to talk to you about this because I feel like, I feel like we're naming names finally and that the name of an official is kind of getting centered in this conversation in a way that has been a long time coming. Finally, some accountability.

Like you said, whenever there's been a controversy this season, the name hasn't been attached. I can't remember any of the past controversies, but I'm not going to forget about Brad Allen, And not only messing up like that, well thought out play, in my opinion, like, I know a lot of people are like, well, you're trying to confuse the officials. So you know, just the official should do his job. I think that's the simpler part. It's like he should do his job. They reported it exactly how they were supposed to.

But then on the other end, like they missed the tripping call on the drive before that kind of extended the game. Dallas would have been able to run out the clock probably that they still had to get a couple yards to get a first down. So just a disaster class all around for Brad Allen. But I don't think it should take away from the result of the game. Like, I think Dallas still deserve to win. I think those two mistakes cancel out. So if I was a Lions fan today, I wouldn't be complaining about it. You didn't deserve that.

I mean, also, look, I love that Dan Campbell tried to go for it three times. Like, I absolutely love that. And I think broadly that ethos and that spirit serves the Lions very well. But also, I don't want to say you play with fire because that's, that's not what I mean. But when you, when you take big swings, sometimes you strike out. And if you're going to play that way, which I think they should, you have to know that sometimes the risks are great and the potential rewards are great. Now, I do think that the sort of quasi-conspiratorial stuff about were they trying to confuse the ref is mostly silly.

Although here's what I think. I do kind of think they might have been trying to confuse the cowboys, which is smart. For sure. Yeah. You have someone sort of trotting around walking towards, because look, Skipper started walking towards the officials like he was going to report,

but then clearly turned around, but also walked, like went over there in a way where it wouldn't happen. Like, you don't go over, you don't start going in that direction for no reason. But if you're the official, your one job is to just listen to who,

says something to you and who doesn't. So from the officiating perspective, I think it's ridiculous. From a sort of subterfuge did, were the lions trying to to sew a little bit of chaos, I think that's possible. And again, maybe it is a little bit like that's the risk you run. But I still love that that's there. I don't think it takes away from the Cowboys victory. I do kind of think there's some chance that this is like this ends up being a great thing for Detroit just because, I mean, they already love their coach. They already are so bought in. But I just can't imagine a better like galvanizing event for a team that has some weaknesses and definitely really needs to sort of come together as the playoffs begin. So maybe, look, maybe we all

end up being winners here because the referees get, get some accountability, get a little light shined on them for once. We get to enjoy the story and the controversy. The lions are all together and extra motivated. And the Cowboys got to win that they needed and that they deserved. But I just, look, I love a controversy. I think it's interesting to watch the replay over and over again. And I'm just glad that there's some accountability for once.

I'm with you on that one. What happened to, remember when like the Cowboys not beating teams with winning records was the thing? Are we done? Are we off that? Or is this still like a momentous occasion that they won on Saturday? I think it's still moderately momentous. I think the biggest winner from the Brad Allen thing is Jared Goff because nobody paid attention to the fact that he kind of threw away the game almost there. And it's happened a couple times this season.

But that's besides the point. But that's why we count on you to, to point out. Here. Holden refs and mediocre quarterbacks accountable. All right. Who's your first loser? My first loser. I'm going to make the Chiefs my first loser. I know they won the game and this was a win that they really needed. And Pat Mahomes completed not one, but two deep passes, which is a big deal now. There was a time in the NFL where Patrick Mahomes completing deep passes was like a weekly occurrence.

In a galaxy far, far away. This was a common occurrence. But now you get like three a season. So you have to celebrate all of them. And he had two in this game. I think that was a good sign. I think the bad sign and why I'm giving them a Nell is, like, how close this game was and how competitive this game was and how hard it felt for the chiefs to pull this win out. It looked a little easy by the end of it, and I thought the defense really figured things out in the second half, Spaggs does what Spags does.

He feels out a team. He learns how to attack them, and then he attacks them. And that's what happened to Jake Browning in this one, and he didn't really have an answer for Spags, which you kind of expect from the backup. but on the offensive side, it's still too dependent on Rishay Rice. Like, that's the problem. Not because he's not a good player

because I think he's going to be a good player over the next couple of years, but you can't rely on a rookie who is still learning how to operate in an NFL passing game, a pro-style passing game. And if you had this receiving corps with an elite Kelsey,

I think they could make this work. But Kelsey just doesn't look like he has it this year. And without that, I don't know how this team gets to the AFC championship game. And I know I was the one a couple of weeks ago arguing with you that they could still win a Super Bowl. I'm taking my L on that one. I'm out on the Chiefs. I don't think they can win a Super Bowl.

I don't think this version can win Super Bowl at least. Rishirase is a great story and a great, you know, a great piece of personnel work and an exciting young player. He's just not someone that you want to be the number one receiver on a Super Bowl team. And I think it's admirable that that that connection. between him and Mahomes has definitely developed over the course of the year and still has a chance to in the next month or however far they go. But yeah, I'm glad you're with me now on this. I just don't, I do not think that this, this receiving core, particularly in a year when they would have to go on the road, which they haven't had to do and not have a buy

and take that tougher path. I just, I don't think it's. their year, the thing that's going to be interesting, if that ends up being the case, is how they approach, you know, if there's sort of a reaction to that in the off season. Because they are in this era. And I always find it interesting to kind of run the parallels with the Brady era patriots. But they're in, they're in the sort of mid period of it now when Mahomes isn't cheap anymore. And everyone also, every single week playing the chiefs is is the biggest game of the season for whoever's playing them. And they have to figure out where you can get by by skrimping and saving a little bit

and other parts of the offense and where you can't. And I think if you look at this offense, maybe they thought that Kelsey would have a little bit more in the tank. And so then you just course correct and identify that a little bit more firepower on offense is necessary because of that. or maybe it's, you know, we really do think that we need to get by sort of with less here because we have Mahomes. And I think we will see more and more what the team building philosophy is. But hopefully we see them go out and add a little bit, at least in the off season, because when you have Mahomes, you don't need much.

But I do think you need more than this. Yeah, you definitely need more than this. And I think what like kind of complicates things for them is we don't know. if Kelsey's 100% healthy. He definitely had some like lower leg injuries early on in the year and those things tend to linger. And maybe that's that's the reason why he's not playing as well. And they aren't in need of some like grand shakeup in their skill group next year.

It's just so hard to say like last year at this time we were saying Keenan Allen was washed up for the Chargers. Then he has the best year of his career numbers wise this year. So that's what makes it difficult. But I think we could say confidently that over the next month that this is probably the supporting cast that Patrick Mahomes is going to enter the playoffs with, and I don't think that's enough. The one thing I will say is, like, outside of Baltimore,

all of these teams in the AFC feel like they could be done in by a really sharp and aggressive defensive plan, and that's one thing they still have going for them. I think, I don't know, at the end of the game, like in the fourth quarter, if I was watching from a Chief's fan's perspective, I felt more comfortable with the Chief's defense out there than I did with the offense to close the game out. I felt more confident that the game was going to get closed out. And that's exactly what happened because that's where their talent is.

Their talent for the first time, really, since we've seen Mahomes take over as the starting quarterback is on that side of the ball. It's not just on that side of the ball. It's concentrated on that side of the ball outside of Mahomes. Right. Right. And they also have done it before. I mean, and it's such a cliche.

But look, even a few weeks ago when I felt relatively, I think, to sort of the consensus very low on their long-term chances in the playoffs with this receiving core, it's still, it scares you to say it. It's, it feels wrong. It feels wrong to say that Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes and this defense and spags can't get it done. And it, and, and there's still a part of my brain that's like, well, what if they, it's going to feel so silly if they do. But I'm just accepting that possibility. I'm just, you know, yeah. to let what happens happen. All right.

And strange things can happen. And we know this because my next loser is the Philadelphia Eagles, who at 11 and 5 still managed to lose to the now 4 and 12 Arizona Cardinals. And I think if you are Nick Siriani, if you are the Philadelphia Eagles, you are coming off of the Super Bowl season, And then you go and lose to Jonathan Gannon's team that's like debatably even trying to win. You've really got to, you got to take the L. This is an interesting result, obviously, in terms of the Eagles falling out of the race for the number one seed, letting San Francisco lock that up and getting into probable situations where they could finish.

behind the Lions or Dallas. Obviously, we'll have to see what happens next week to know all the final answers on that. But also on the Cardinals side, and in terms of the draft order, this is a really interesting result by virtue of Arizona winning. So Carolina has been guaranteed the worst record in the NFL. So the Bears get the number one pick. But now the commanders would pick second after. their loss to the 49ers and the Cardinals win,

the Patriots would pick third. The Patriots and the commanders right now, both being four and 12, are separated by strength of schedule, which is the tiebreaker, by four-tenths of a percentage point difference in the win-loss, win-loss records of their strength of schedule.

And so we'll have to wait until next week to see the final answer there. But it seems as though the Cardinals are not going to be a top two drafting team, which is interesting to me because I think that pretty much all but answers the Kyler question, which has been floating around and floating around and floating around. But it seems like if that's the case, not only is he likely to be there next year, But you're also probably talking about a team that if they don't have one of those picks that somebody really desperately wants to trade for, they're probably adding a premium player and not trading down and getting a real blue chipper who's outside of the quarterback position. So I suppose the Eagles are the loser here because, I mean, this team should just be terrified of facing a running quarterback in the postseason because they just saw what someone like Kyler could do to completely neutral.

their pass rush. He was sacked once in this game. The rest of the Eagles defense, obviously, is not in very good shape. And that's the one thing that they had a chance of getting together towards the end of the season. But against him, they just really, really struggled. But I also think that there's a winner side of this, too. And it's definitely for Kyler Murray, Kyler Murray's long-term prospects with the Cardinals. Yeah, definitely. This is a well-coached team. I know, like, the standings don't make it look like the Cardinals have had a season worth celebrating. They are four and 12. They're minus 124 in point differential.

That is, I think it's fifth worst in the league, fourth worst in the league. But the vibes, like, could it be better? I have to hand it to the cringe lord, Jonathan Gannon. Do they do rank choice for Coach of the Year voting? Because I think you should throw him a vote if that's possible. Yes, they do. And like I think the offense, I think Kyler Murray, it's, it's not even like a thing where they're stuck with Kyler Murray.

Like that's not the feeling I have having watched them since he came back. Like the results haven't been good. Yeah, but Kyler Murray looks like Kyler Murray at times. And there were times during this game when he looked like Tyler Murray, especially with the game on the line. So I think you're watching it. Like they checked off every box they wanted to check in Arizona this season. And the fact that they're checking off the quarterback box is the most surprising development,

which is kind of crazy to say because nobody, I don't think anybody really thought Jonathan Gannon was going to be a guy that we are talking about is maybe the best coaching hire of the season. But that's what it feels like he's at at this point. Yeah, it's an interesting conversation. The funny thing is that I would maybe give it to Stuyken if I didn't give it to in terms of the new guys, the both of those Eagles coordinators, I think would be in that conversation.

But, and maybe that's a reason why we should. should look at this Eagles team and maybe let them off the hook a little bit more than we're inclined to. And of course, injuries have played a role and everything. But still, definitely, definitely some positive signs in Arizona. But I don't think if you're Philadelphia, this is exactly the result that you're looking for at this point. No.

Are we shocked that the defensive coordinator change has not worked out for the better? No, I personally am not shocked. Yeah, neither of mine. I also do think that the Eagles defensive coordinators getting hired as head coach's streak is going to remain at one following the conclusion of this season. I don't know. Maybe Patricia follows Belichick in New England. It would be a nice little story. Bring it full circle.

Don't say that. Don't say that, Stephen. could run the offense again. Don't say that. All right. You have to do a winner now just to get the taste out of that idea out of our collective mouths. All right, pop quiz. If the playoffs started today at this moment, do you know which division would have the most

playoff teams? Yes, I do. It's the AFC South. It is the AFC South. After today, we have three teams in it. The division is still up for grad. The Jaguars win. They got to bring up the Panthers.

They shut out the Panthers, 26 to nothing. Surprise, surprise. The game against Joe Barry was not a sign of things to come from this Panthers' offense. It was an ugly offensive performance. The only thing that I will say is I do appreciate the Panthers experimenting a little bit by wearing their blue pants with their white jersey. First time they've done that in franchise history, I believe. Don't fact check me on that.

It looked horrible and they looked horrible, but at least they're trying. I love it. I love some uniform experimentation. Someone caught David Tepper with a drink and maybe throwing it out a fan. I don't know. I don't want to put anything out there. I don't want to get sued by David Tepper. The NFL is investigating it and has nothing more to say on the matter.

I have a lot to say on the matter, but I will plead the fifth here. But the Jaguars, they're not starting Trevor Lawrence in this game. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter when you're playing the Panthers. The Colts win again, setting up a, what is, could be. work out as a play-in game between the Texans and the Colts for the wildcard spot, assuming the Jaguars lose to the Titans next week. But if the Jaguars win that game, they wrap up the South, which we're all expecting them to do. So next week, we might get another AFC South

matchup with some actual stakes with two teams that I think are playing good football. Like Gardner Minchu isn't a great quarterback, but I think that offense is playing well. The defense has been better than what I expected this year in Indy. And then C.J. Stroud comes back and looks like the C.J. Stroud, we saw before the concussion. That's a very good sign. Even without, like, some of those pieces on that offense, very good sign for them going forward. I hope we see all three of these teams in the playoffs, because I would like to see, C.J. Stroud. And I think the Colts are one of, like, the, I would say one of the 15 best teams in the NFL, so they deserve a spot. So they have you South. You're my winner. I like watching this Colts team. I'm with you. When you first

asked that question, where my brain went was not number of teams in, but like number of teams that could be number of teams alive. So then I was caught in a, is it the AFC South or the NFC South vortex before then realizing what the question actually is. And because the NFC South is terrible, it is not the NFC South. It hasn't been quite as pretty, I think, as we hoped. But I still believe that the AFC South has beaten the allegations of southiness. They're the better South Southern Division at this point.

Definitely, definitely. And I think that they have. they have acquitted themselves nicely in terms of not having the disease of the South that is still very much present in the NFC. Now, Alex Pierce had a long touchdown play, our X factor for the NFC South coming up big in a crunch time game in the season. We were right about that back in whenever we said that, July. But no, I do think this is a positive season for this division, like finally pulling itself out of the gutter and not being a laughing stock. I think this is the last year that we really talk about this division in those terms. I don't know about Tennessee.

Like Levis has shown some things. Brable is a good coach. He usually has them competitive. But like you have Trevor. You have Anthony Richardson coming back into an environment that we know is conducive to like good quarterback play. And then obviously Stroud has looked like the best quarterback in the division at times this year. I wouldn't be surprised if those three teams are fighting for playoffs every year for the next like five or ten years. Yeah.

The division's headed in the right direction. For sure. All right. Speaking of heading in the right direction, you, uh, you asked me if I might consider throwing Jonathan Gannon a coach of the year bone. Uh, and while I understand the logic, that might be a little too rich for my blood. What I will say is that at, uh, around seven o'clock this evening, the Los Angeles Rams having beaten the New York Giants 26 to 25 were holding their team plane or charter or whatever, I don't care, at Newark Airport, waiting for the last two minutes of the Seahawks Steelers game to finish out because if the Steelers won, which they did and were in solid.

command in the fourth quarter, the Rams were going to have made the playoffs. And they were going to have made the playoffs in a season where at the beginning of the season, they were in the bottom five of most roster rankings, power rankings, whatever. And the Steelers did in fact win, which means that the Rams are in the playoffs. And I really think that Sean McVeigh has as good a case to be made as anyone as the coach of the year. if you look at what he has done with this rookie class, which obviously goes down as a win for a good old Les Sneed, too,

because guys like Pooka Nakua, Kobe Turner, Byron Young, they are all performing. None of those players was taken with a pick in the top 75. So this is certainly a commentary on the personnel department as well. But McVeigh's coaching the team. I think coaching young players and getting a lot out of those guys. so early in their careers has to say something about coaching. And you have Pooka Dukua, who's at 1,445 receiving yards after today.

That is 29 yards shy of the rookie record. So he could very easily pass that next week. Kobe Turner's leading all rookies with nine sacks from the interior. Byron Young is tied with Will Anderson Jr. with seven sacks, which would be tied for second among rookies. it's just a really impressive group of young players that I think are being put in positions to succeed. Kairn Williams had three touchdowns. Those players made it possible for the Rams to still find a way to win on a day when Matt Stafford threw a couple bad interceptions and looked kind of off and looked kind of iffy.

And look, you don't want to do that against the Giants. and it's not the most encouraging statement to make this close to the playoffs, which they are indeed now in. But I just, I think big picture is more important than that with this team right now because a win is a win. That, that Wayne Martindale defense can be weird if nothing else sometimes.

And I think they got to Stafford a little bit. And if you think about where this team is relative to where we thought they were in, July and August. It's just one of the more impressive coaching jobs in recent memory, I think. And again, personnel acquisition as well. But I just find myself incredibly impressed with

what Sean McVeigh has been able to get out of this group. And they've been rewarded with a not only with a playoff berth, but with being a team that I think we're all excited to watch in the playoffs. Because the supporting cast is real and it's developing every week and it's there. And then you still have

you know, Stafford can have a bad day, but on his good days, he's still capable of some really wow quarterbacking. And, you know, I hope we end up getting that in the postseason, but I think they are a tough out. And I'm glad that they made it. And it just seems like it had to have been the reward of a lot of hard work and a lot of good coaching. Yeah, we're talking about how impressive this Ravens team has been. The last time they didn't look so impressive, it was the Rams taking them to overtime. And just to add to your point about the game, like being a weird game, there's the Wink Martindale Factor. It's a West Coast team playing at 1 p.m. on the East Coast.

Wasn't the best weather. Like, it was a weird game. But this season is a reminder of what Sean McVeigh is. Like, it's a reminder that he's an elite coach. And you give him enough and he's going to cobble together a good team. Like even beyond the no-name defense and the young defense, on the other side of the ball, the established stars on this team weren't like guys that you could necessarily bang. on being stars this season.

Like you had Matthew Stafford coming off his worst season in ages. He was injured. He's expensive. He's aging. Cooper Cup coming off a major injury. He didn't, he wasn't on the field for the start of the season. Puka Nakua like, like yeah, now he looks like a superstar. But before that, it looked like a plotting day two, day three receiving prospect.

Sean McVeigh turned him into this. Karen Williams, same thing you can say about him. The offensive line. They didn't touch the offensive line, which was a major problem last year. The offensive line is better. he found ways to work around their issues all season long on both sides of the ball that coaching staff I don't think it's just a Sean McVey coach of the year award I think it's a coaching staff of the year award and it that Rams coaching staff Rocky Morris the defensive coordinator yeah they all deserve

it the offensive line coach I don't even know his name he deserves something totally totally and and and McVe deserves credit for assembling that staff but you're right that they all deserve credit for for what they've done as individuals. I remember going out there for a day during training camp and kind of being like weirdly delighted by it, but also confused because it was like Sean McVay running around after a bunch of 20 year olds who just like needed them to pare down the number of plays that they were coaching on a daily basis because they just weren't ready for it. They weren't ready for the volume.

There was so much fundamental work that was going on. And, you know, you can get lucky with a couple of rookies who are wise beyond their years and, you know, went to sort of blue chip programs and they're ready to be pros and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They had something like 30 undrafted free agents on that roster during training camp. You don't get lucky with that number. You don't get lucky when you have to redo your whole system so that. the children that are working for you can learn, you know, just what it is to go through the day. So it's an impressive thing and they're an exciting team.

And I think they, I'm glad they held the plane because I imagine that was a very fun plane ride back to California. We can celebrate Sean McVeigh now. But in three years, when he turns Stetson Bennett into the next Brock Purdy, I'm going to hate that, man. So I'll celebrate it for now. Yeah, just celebrate for now. And I'm having Stetson-Bennett and MVP debates in two years.

I'm going to be pissed at Sean McVeigh. It's going to be really good. It's going to be really good stuff. All right. Last loser of the night from you? My last loser is the Bucks who had a chance to wrap up the NFC South and just laid a complete egg. This is a quote from Todd Bowles after the game.

It doesn't matter who we played today. Good team, bad team, college team, high school team. We wouldn't have won. So Todd Bowles are saying they would have lost to a high school team. And based on the way that this offense played, I am inclined to agree. It's not a good game by Baker Mayfield. That's really funny. I didn't see that he said that.

He said mostly really dry, but every once in a while, he's really funny. I guarantee you he said. I don't know if he was trying to be funny. No, he wasn't. He wasn't. He definitely wasn't. He really believes that he would have lost to a high school team today. And like Baker Mayfield looked like a high school quarterback.

And it looked like a Baker performance. like every bad Baker performance you've ever seen, like where he's panicking in the pocket, he's trying to do too much, he's throwing lasers over receivers heads, he's throwing into coverage, just a totally bad performance. But the problem starts on early downs with this team.

This is a front running positive game script offense. They have to be out in the front foot. They have to be getting four and five yards on first down. They couldn't run the ball at all. They couldn't run play action at all. Baker Mayfield had three attempts off play action. He had one attempt from under center all game long. that's just not a formula you can win with Baker Mayfield.

We know that. We know what type of offense he has to be in. They couldn't run that type of game script today. And Dennis Allen, I don't know what he is as a head coach. I don't know how to judge his performance with his flawed roster, but we know he's a good defensive game planner. And we know he's had a lot of success against this organization in particular. And that's what happened today.

On the other side of the ball, it was just Derek Carr doing enough and not screwing things up. It wasn't really an impressive performance by New Orleans offense. this was about, I think, Tampa Bay's ceiling as a team. Because over the last couple of weeks, they've had some impressive games. And we've kind of been like, oh, like the bucks. Like we have to talk about this team. Maybe they can win some games. These are one of those games where you're like, there's a limit to what this offense can be.

And the moment they go up against a good defense, this is the type of thing that's going to happen to them. What the Saints offense is doing is interesting because it's not, I mean, they've not been particularly explosive, but it just seemed like Derek Carr has found something with Joanne Johnson. and just with throwing to the tight ends, they have a little something that they can go to, you know, over the middle to those guys. I don't know how far that's going to get them against playoff defenses, but it does seem like this offense that's been so up and down this year

has maybe found something that they can rely on with that. Yeah, Tason Hill had a deep touchdown catch, which is something I wasn't expecting to say today. They did lose Alvin Camara with a sprained ankle at halftime. It didn't seem to matter. I don't know if the bucks are the best. of this division. Like, I think if they played five times these two teams, I think the Saints would win

most of those games. But it's probably not going to matter. The Bucks only have to beat the Panthers next week and it's over. If they do lose that game, then Atlanta, New Orleans, that matchup becomes an NFC South title game, which nobody. Like, I love divisional title games in Week 18, but I don't need that one, honestly. Well, too much. I would take it.

It would be a... I'm good. It would be something. I don't know what it would be. but it would be something. All right. Last loser of the day. So I got to give it to the Seattle Seahawks who lost 30 to 23 to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And look, this Seahawks defense has been a little bit of a trip. But the thing that I think just sort of came into focus with this game is, how much trouble they have tackling. The Steelers with Mason Rudolph at quarterback, curious if we end up seeing that going forward or potentially even in the playoffs, though we can, that's a story for a different time.

They won this game on the ground. It was a very classic Pittsburgh performance. It was the run game. It was the defense getting a critical turnover. but it wasn't just that they were straight up running the ball effectively in particular. Najee Harris ran really well, had 122 rushing yards, but 118 of those rushing yards came after contact, which is the second most in a game in his entire career. And I just, look, I think if you are a supposedly hopeful playoff defense,

that's a statistic that you kind of can't, can't live with. And the offense for the Seahawks has had a lot of ups and downs. There's a lot of health issues. Gino's health issues. It seems like there's something affecting him and you're dealing with a lot. But I just think that that is a huge point of concern that they came out in this game where they had a lot on the line. and they were constantly in a position to touch the running back,

but just couldn't bring them down. And you had to know that the Steelers in this position with a backup quarterback were probably going to rely on that running game, and there was just nothing that they could do about it. On the other side of the ball, again, maybe there's, maybe there should just be like 18 Coach of the Year awards. Maybe it should be like the ending of Mean Girls where they chip off the trophy and just give it to everybody.

Because I struggle to come up with a record or a streak that is more impressive in all of sports than Mike Tomlin going 17 seasons without a losing record. It is just really, I mean, when we talk about that Rams team plane being held at Newark, it's nice that they did that, I'm sure that was a nice team bonding moment. They didn't need to do that. the plane could have taken off. It's a Mike Tomlin team in the fourth quarter already with a lead, already having gotten, you know, they'd gotten the defensive turn, the defensive takeaway.

They were having this just like strange backs against the wall. It's Mason Rudolph. It seems like they shouldn't win. Of course they found a way to win this game. Of course. So like I do the Seahawks part of it first because, yes, There are things that went very wrong for Seattle. I thought Pete Carroll coached a horrible game.

He was incredibly conservative. Definitely cost them points. But also it's sort of pointless because, of course, the Steelers were going to win this game. Because Mike Tomlin is now guaranteed to go another year without a losing record. And it's just unbelievable. It is just unbelievable that this happened with this team, with these quarterbacks. Mason Rudolph, I have to say, did not look how. bad in this game.

And I'm very curious what they end up saying about, you know, injury statuses and who ends up starting because if I were, if I were Tomlin, I would want to keep him in there. We'll see what happens there. But I just, it's just a really impressive streak. And so an L for the Seahawks for losing in a situation where they had a lot on the line. But at the same time, it's Mike Tomlin. so it was inevitable. Every time I looked up at this game,

like Samuels or Harris were dragging some Seahawks front seven player for like an extra three yards. And I don't know what to say about this team going forward, like the Seahawks. Because on one hand, this is a disappointing season. I do think they kind of answered some questions we had in the offseason. Like I think Gino Smith has been the quarterback. They expected him to be for the most part when he was healthy at least.

I thought he played well from what I saw in this game, actually. but their problems, like you said, is just tackling. And I don't think this is a problem that requires like some wholesale change to the roster. I think they're not as far off as they seem. But if they don't make the playoffs, it's going to be hard to make that argument if you Pete Carroll at this point in his career where he's at, like, he probably doesn't have more than a few years left. So I could see this being the type of loss that starts the beginning of the end for Seattle

in this era of football. But I'm with you on this one. like Mike Tomlin at this point, these are the most impressive wins to me. Like I know Tomlin has done a far more impressive things in his career. He's won a Super Bowl. He's won a bunch of divisions. He's gotten them to big games. He's won playoff games.

But these games where he wins it when it, after the game, you look back and you're like, were they even the better team during this game and they still won? It happens like five times a year. And I think that's the best sign of a good coach. And I really think all of their problems over the last couple of years are based on team building. I think it's just been bad roster construction. even think it's like a flaw in their approach necessarily. I just think they picked the wrong players. Like they got stuck with Kenny Pickett. And I do wonder where that conversation goes now.

Because before the game, the report was, Pickett's our quarterback. Nothing's going to change that. Two straight games scoring 30 points for an offense that we know has had trouble putting up a lot of points. A two-game win streak after a three-game losing streak looked like it ended the season. They're probably going to make the playoffs. All they have to do is beat Baltimore next week. and then, and Baltimore is not starting in any of their starters, presumably. I would extend Tomlin and I would give them a chance at a different quarterback. And I would start that search this season. I think that's what the end of the season.

This little run at the end of the season has proved to Pittsburgh. And I would go the opposite of Seattle. I would give it one more year. Yeah, I think I feel the same way. I mean, and I really do think that I think we'll get some sort of report about, oh, like picket still, still not healthy, still not ready to go. Mason Rudolph over the last two weeks. I mean, they're two and no.

He's thrown for 540 yards, two touchdowns, no picks, 10.8 yards per attempt. So it's just been a different dimension to this offense with him in there. I don't think there's a lot of question about who the best Steelers quarterback is right now. Now, certainly that's not to say anything long term about Mason Rudolph as the quarterback of this team. but the one danger with Tomlin, and I certainly don't think that this is a reason to get rid of him. I would not get rid of him if I were the Steelers. It would take a lot more than something like the last few seasons where they haven't been quite as competitive as they're used to. The one thing that I worry about with him is that he does seem to, I don't know if it's like loyalty or something,

but there are these guys who are just like obviously hurting his team and he doesn't really always seem to do anything about it. I think he's almost a victim of his own, like, gift. His gift to, like, pull this performance out of these, like, lesser players. Like, and, like, if you're a good coach, I think you give credit to the players. You're not, like, looking at yourself like, well, I'm such a genius. I can't believe he did this. Right. So maybe it's, like, one of those situations where he doesn't have as much confidence in himself as we do in him, like, bringing something out of a better team.

Or do you think it's so, like, myopic. And he has all, I mean, talking to Mike, Tomlin can be an incredibly frustrating experience or even just listening to an interview with Mike Tomlin because he, I mean, there are questions about things that seem so plainly obvious. But he will never admit that something could be hurting the team because he will never admit that like there's a piece of adversity that could potentially be a crutch or a reason. if the Steelers lose, it's because they didn't play well enough and they didn't coach well enough. And that's an admirable philosophy. And I think it definitely helps them. Sometimes it's like, hey, the offensive coordinator might not be very good.

And he will never like admit to that because then maybe the players could kind of get into that. And I wonder if he's so dogmatic about that philosophy that it almost blinds him to like, No, you didn't lose because that's the way the cookie crumbles or whatever. Like some of these people are good and some of these people are not so good. I just wonder if it's a little something about that. But I think he's a great coach. I think it's an amazing accomplishment. And I certainly would want to keep him around.

Yeah, it's like every loss is an opportunity is like something he would say. And it's like, yeah, every loss is an opportunity to recognize the real problems that it's like Matt Canada and the quarterback position. And you don't do that. But, like, that's what makes him a good coach is he's like, there's always a way. Like, there's something I can be doing to work around that. And, like, he figures it out. But it's, you need talent in this league. And they just haven't had the talent.

Like, anyone disappointed with their results over the last couple of years. Look at the roster and start with the roster. This has not been a roster capable of winning a Super Bowl or even a playoff game. And they've gotten close to doing that. They've gotten close to winning a playoff game over the last couple years. I was supposed to be a Seahawks L. I think it kind of turned into a Steelers win. But that's okay.

It's nice to end. on a high note. I think we're just going to leave it there. Leave it. Leave it with the Steelers. I think, you know, it's, we're recording this on New Year's Eve. That's a nice thought to go out on,

have Mike Tomlin take us into the new year. Any resolutions, any final thoughts of 2023 before we go? I will not put my job on the line based on a team winning the Super Bowl, especially if they're the favorites to win the Super Bowl that year. Because the 49ers fans are really, on my ass about the 49ers winning the Super Bowl because I said I would quit covering NFL. Well, you're not allowed to do that. So tell them they can bother me. But I don't want to do a podcast alone. Also, I was joking. Like, you had to be 10 years old to think that I was serious.

I was going to seriously quit my job. And then, like, someone defended me in my mentions yesterday or the other day on Twitter. They're like, he's a man of his word. And I was like, no, I'm not. What are you talking about? I'm the opposite of that. They think they're helping you. What are you crazy? I'm not quitting. I have bills to pay. Stephen is staying. All right.

This has been dual threat. We will be back on Thursday. Next up on the feed, Sheel and Ben will have extra point taken. That's going to come on Tuesday this week because of the holiday, but they will be deep diving into all of Week 17. Thank you to Kiara Givens and Eduardo Ocampo for their work on socials. And to Isaiah Blakely for producing this episode with additional production supervision by

Regina Rangipal and Connor Nevins.