The Ringer NFL Show - Week 17 Recap: The Bucs Are Done With Antonio Brown, the Bengals Clinch the AFC North, and the Cardinals Get Back on Track

Episode Date: January 3, 2022

Kevin and Nora are joined by Steven Ruiz to discuss Antonio Brown’s decision to leave the stadium in the middle of the Bucs’ win over the Jets (1:36). They also talk about Cincinnati’s big win over the Chiefs (13:34), the Raiders beating the Colts on the road, their favorite potential playoff matchups (59:06), and more.  Hosts: Kevin Clark and Nora Princiotti Guest: Steven Ruiz Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Top MMA voices, Ariel Hawani, Chuck Mindenhall, and Pizzie Carroll are live on the Spotify Greenroom app for every major MMA card with the Ringer MMA show. Here the guys react to weigh-ins in real time and find out what they think of the fights the moment the final card ends. Plus, when breaking MMA news happens, they'll be live to talk to you about it. And if you miss the Green Room show, you can hear it as a podcast anytime on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It is the RingRen-Fel show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark, joined on a Sunday app by Nora Prenciotti.

Nora, hello. Hello. Oh, Kevin, you didn't ask me how it was going. I had some of all queued up. I did not say what's going on. Do you want me to say what's going on? It's tripped you up the last couple of weeks. So I decided to go a different way.

Okay. Nora, what's going on? Building the foundation. Kevin. Wow. Wow, that could be a reference to Joe Judge. It could be a reference to Matt Rule. There's a lot of people building a foundation or lying about building a foundation.

We're going to get to that. We have Joe Judge talk. We have Bengals when the AFC North. We've got a lot. And we're also joined by Stephen Ruiz, the Sean Mannion of the Ring around the NFL. I'll show what's going on, buddy. I appreciate that, that comparison.

No, it's only because Ben Solac is an unmovable contract. So Ben is Kirk Cousins in this scenario. Yeah. Yeah. Kirk, Kirk is traveling this week. He'll be back next week. But we love him. And he's not here so we can just talk about the Titans.

Excited about that? Not really. Having watched the Dolphins Titans game just before recording, not excited to talk about it. All right. we're going to get to all that. We're going to start with a something we did not anticipate talking about. It's Bucks 28, Jets 24, Antonio Brown quit football, it seems in the third quarter. So Jay Glazer talked to Bruce Ariens, who said that he was trying to get Brown to go into the game. Brown refused. Try it again. Brown refused. Ariens told him to get out. At that point,

Brown took his jersey off. Mike Evans, if you saw the sideline cam, kind of told him, Hey man, don't take your jersey off. That was no avail. It got to the point where when Brown was parading around in the end zone, according to Fox's Chris Myers, that security thought he was just a fan and we're thinking about tackling him at that point. He ran out and he called an Uber. If we needed more characters, the Uber driver wanted to go viral.

So his video, I guess listening to Antonio Brown's new single is out on the internet. Thankfully, we have all of that. And yeah, he just quit. He quit. That was the Peter Schrager got a take. text saying he gone. Jenna Lane was told he quit. So I guess this is his retirement.

Nora, what do you think? Well, I guess this is what happens when you rely on Antonio Brown. Right? We were about a week away from Bruce Ariens telling Peter King that he was skeptical about Antonio Brown when they signed him last year at Tom Brady's urging. but then he was a, quote, model citizen. There was a new history. I really loved the way he tried to fit in.

My whole attitude on him changed. I saw him trying to be a better human being. Now, I will note that Bruce Ariens also said when the Bucks decided to bring Antonio Brown back after his suspension for having a fake fax card, he just said they did it because it was the best thing for the football team. And in a weird way, I applaud that honesty. Sure, sure. Let's rewind. Bruce Ariens said that they were going to cut him if he ever made one mistake.

And then before that, let's rewind again. He said he wasn't going to sign Antonio Brown. This was before last season. So Bruce Ariens, some interesting comments on Antonio Brown through the years. I mean, the best interest of the football team thing, it is the only place where you're on stable ground. Right. Because I'm just not sure. Look, like Antonio Brown was suspended the first half of 2020.

joined the bucks, had a good season. They won the Super Bowl. He caught a touchdown in the Super Bowl. By the beginning of this season, he had the fake box card and then he gets suspended again, right? So I don't know what the allotment of time where Antonio Brown would have to exist on a football team without incident would be for my, for me to buy it if a coach said he's a changed guy. I got to say it's more than a season. It's more than one season at this point. So look, last year he was.

was sort of icing on the cake, right? And now they've got all sorts of injuries and they were relying on him. And this is the trouble with relying on someone who has an extremely long history of being unreliable. He couldn't get through one season without being suspended for something that is a federal crime. I feel like we're like glossing over that fact that just last month he was almost losing to the Jets.

No, that should be punishable by the law. But. I don't know laws. Yeah, he didn't go. I don't think he went a 10 weeks. stretch without causing trouble for the buck. So, I mean, I know this, why this is the last straw, but it's kind of ridiculous that this was the last straw for the bucks.

Because in the grand scheme of things, this is very small for Antonio Brown. It's not even like we haven't seen him quit on his team before. We saw that his last game was stealing. No, we've seen it with three franchises at this point. I mean, we were already at a, get a new bit. Deeply cynical thing. No, what are you going to say? The reason this is apparently the last straw for.

Antonio Brown is that he took his shirt off, ran out of the stadium, and got in an Uber and left. Like, the bucks are sort of taking credit for firing Antonio Brown. I think he left. Are you saying it was like, you can't quit? You're fired. I think he just left. I think he just ran out of the stadium. And now it's like, well, he's not a buck anymore.

This was the last straw. Like, when Bruce Ariz is like, he's no longer a buck. Hey, Bruce, I think Antonio made that announcement about an hour ago, buddy. when he left the stadium in an Uber and his Uber driver was putting out an Instagram saying, we're going viral, okay? That's when Antonio Brown made the announcement that he's no longer a buck.

We don't need you. We're all set there, Bruce. At about the time that the most obvious milkshake duck candidate in the history of the universe was pulling away from MetLife Stadium, Antonio Brown was no longer a buck in here. Did you see the thanks for the opportunity Instagram post? Has anyone gotten more practice at that than Antonio Brown?

I love the thanks for the opportunity. opportunity post when he left on those terms. The other thing was Brady talked about, Brady was asked about all of this after the game. And he talked about compassion and empathy and said, I think everyone should be compassionate towards some very difficult things, which, of course, that's true. That's self-evident. And look, Antonio Brown has done some horrendous and illegal things. It also seems like he's a pretty troubled person.

and on some level that's sad. But also square for me, and I say this hypothetically, because you're not going to be able to, Ariens being able to say he was a model citizen with Brady seeming to know that he was going through something ugly and troubling. I just don't know why you get yourself

into the situation of relying on someone who it wasn't really that surprising that he threw his equipment into the stands and ran across the field while both teams were still on the field. Not even Vante Davis did this. I think you have to separate the person

from the football aspect of this. And from a personal standpoint, Antonio Brown clearly needs, Tom Brady said this today, people love him. He needs some help at this point. And so we hope that he gets that. From a football standpoint,

I mean, I don't even think you should have ever really been on the box if you look at his pattern of behavior with the three franchises previously. And there's a reason that Bruce Ariens had said he wasn't a fit in our locker room. And the fact that he was signed in the middle of last year shows sort of how deeply cynical

the league is and even to even get to that point to where he got a second chance even within the bucks. That would probably be his sixth or seventh chance if you're stacking all the chances up. And so it shows you, I mean, I wrote this at the time, but, you know, it shows you that when people say, oh, we care about the chemistry for the locker room or whatever, that sometimes you just can't take that stuff seriously because Aryan showed the actions to be called out the words after he'd ruled that out. So we were already a very, very cynical place

with Antonio Brown even on the team. I honestly, when I was watching it, I was thinking like, I'm not even sure if, if they wouldn't take him back after like half of that. It was the totality of it. It was the leaving. It was the Uber driver.

That's when I knew it was over the line. Like, if he just took his jersey off, went in the tunnel, like if he came back like 20 minutes later, Bruce had been like, yeah, all right, whatever. Like, we were already in a very cynical place with Antonio Brown Tampa Buccaneer. does Brady attempt, let's say A, B, text Brady tonight and it's like, I want to, I want to join the team again. Do you think Brady tries to vouch for me? Probably not. I think, I think even Brady knows at this point. Although, I don't know, Nora. I mean, he's a pretty competitive guy, Brady. Like, he might just be like, yeah, we're down. We're down some guys.

Well, they are, right? Like, now they're dealing with this in a situation where it's not like he's, you know, the icing on the cake of an already stacked. wide receiver group. They're super injured and they barely beat the Jets. So unless Brady and Cyril Grayson is going to work for the remainder of the playoffs, then I don't know. I mean, he was pissed that they let go of him in New England when he couldn't keep from making threats via text for 24 hours after being put on notice. I assume this is sort of a bridge too far, but I just don't know. Like, I think Brady's sort of tried to take them under his wing and, and maybe that, maybe that has a pretty long leash, but I don't know the answer to that one. Steve, when we talked before this and you basically said, don't let the Antonio Brown thing

distract you from the fact that the, the bucks mailed it in against the Jets today. Zero grace, on five first downs, two explosive plays per PFF, game winning touchdown catch, obviously. Mike Evans had a touchdown pass as well. What happened in this game? Why did the bucks look so bad? and if they don't have Antonio Brown, what does this offense look like? Because this was the whole thing a couple weeks ago and they lost Chris Godwin.

It was okay, well, they have Brown coming back in a couple weeks. That adds a piece. It don't have that now. What happens to the bucks now? The reason why the game was close is they couldn't stop to run,

which has been like a trend, a developing trend throughout the season. And it's a big departure from last year because the one thing they did really well last year was stopped to run, like at a historical level. And that made things hard for opposing offenses because you can't run on early downs

and then you get in third along against a Todd Bulls defense, and that's just hell. And all of a sudden, they're not getting, our opponents aren't getting in those third and longs because they can run the football. And the Jets ran for like 150 yards today. And if you can run on the bucks, I think this is a much easier team to play, especially with the shortcomings on offense now that they don't have this stacked receiving core for Brady.

Because I think that was their two big things. They had so many skill players on offense, and then you couldn't run on them on defense. That was kind of their formula for winning in the playoffs last year. And they don't have either of those things. now. Nora, Buck, Super Bowl contenders? They're contenders as long as they have Brady. They still are.

I mean, I'm sort of joking about the Cyril Grayson thing, but like if there's a quarterback in football that's going to win a Super Bowl, Cyril Grayson and Tom Brady. We've seen Tom Brady do this with guys far worse than Cyril Grayson. And Grayson had the game winning

touchdown, but like that wasn't his only catch on the, like he had six catches for 80 yards. Like Brady got production out of whoever this guy is like Google them. He looks exactly like Leonard Fournett, by the way. I'm not ruling out the possibility that he is Leonard Fournett pretending to be a receiver. Google him.

What would be the incentive of that? Get more passes. It's a prestige situation. Just going to have two guys on different sides of the field. Okay. Anything else on this top before we move on? I got nothing. Zach Wilson played well. not like super well but he played well

give him credit would you would you give me the like the line of quarterbacks you wouldn't pursue if you were the Jets right now right so like you would obviously pursue Russell Wilson and Aaron Rogers give me that give me the worst quarterback you would pursue if you were the GM

of the Jets uh like actually pursue or like if he fell to me I would take him and start him over his act no no no no like like if you're running the Jets right now. You're Joe Douglas. James Winston.

Okay, that was a tough one for Jets fans. I got to be honest with you. Nora, is it higher for you? I like, I kind of like this. Like four years ago, Ryan Fitzpatrick. Yeah, this is tough. This is a tough one for Jets fans.

Jets fans were pumping their fist. Sean Fantasy. All those guys are pumping their fists, saying, all right, Wilson's a little getting a little momentum going, and then you hit him with, I'd pursue James Winston to South season. I mean, I was there last month, so to be fair, I don't know. Let's move on.

The Bengals won the AFC North, 3431 win over the Chiefs. A lot of weird calls in this game. Pretty strange game over the 60 minutes, but pretty big statement by the Bengals, Nora, you got the four. So I thought this was an unbursed. believable statement by the Bengals. And it was interesting to me because we were talking midweek about this game.

And we talked a lot about, well, if the chiefs can get pressure on Burrow, are and if they can sort of funnel everything to the inside, which is what their defense likes to do, is Cincinnati going to be able to just man up on the outside and win on offense the way that they like to? And that felt like a tough sell to me. And I think to all of us a little bit. And hand up, I was incorrect because it was so impressive to watch the Bengals just absolutely. Destroy is probably strong, but absolutely have a day just throwing repeatedly to the outside. Burrow had 361 of his 446 yards to receivers outside the night.

numbers according to next chance stats. No quarterback this season is thrown for more yards or touchdowns outside the numbers than Ben Burrow this year. So that's how they have been winning. But the chiefs have a very good defense against wide receivers and they try to get everything in the inside. Plus, they start this game. I mean, the first two drives for Cincinnati are interrupted by Sacks. And it just seems like for I was going to be under pressure. They don't have a great offensive line. And I remember thinking to myself, you know, towards half time of this game, I just don't think that Cincinnati is going to be able to do this throwing 45 times.

And because they just won. Like there's no easy button here, right? Like they just won because Burrow was amazing and Chase was amazing. And they just won their battles in the outside. And I thought it was kind of an unbelievable statement. All the calls, all the weirdness at the end, like, I don't really think that matters just because the way they won was by being better, and the guys they were matched up against.

So the statement is interesting to me. What's more interesting is the fact that this brings an edge, some parity to the AFC that didn't have to happen. If the Titans get the number one seed and they get the buy, that changes the entire outlook of the AFC. The AFC becomes a little flatter because if the chiefs got it, I thought the chiefs were going to run away and hide in January. And now everything changes a little bit.

going into Tennessee is sorry Titans fans we love you we'll get to you two of us love you um but that going into there is different than going into Arrowhead in January and so that changes who can win and why in January Jumar Chase you mentioned the outside the numbers thing the next gen stats tracking Jumar Chase had more yards outside the numbers day 256 than any receiver in history of the next gen stats era so that's the last six years 266 yards rookie record at this point I think it's the most rookie yards in history passing Justin Jefferson yep 1429 Justin Jefferson had 1400 um LSU by the way a couple years ago pretty good just a FYI pretty good pretty good team so the Bengals are reaching the ceiling that we thought that

they could reach burrow was under pressure 37% of the time didn't matter he got the crowd knocked out of him. He literally lost his nameplate at one point, and it didn't matter. He was still cool under pressure. He was the guy we saw at LSU. I'm like, this is the reason, not to harp on this, but this is the reason that people were so reluctant. People inside the NFL, people in college media guys like Bruce Feldman, just talent evaluators, were so reluctant to jump on the Herbert over Burrow band lag. It's because Burrow has the capability, not only play like this, but lead like this, take hits like this. This was unbelievable.

You know, he acknowledged the meme after the game of like, you know, Jamar, Jamar's down there somewhere. I'm just going to chuck it. Seven go-rout touchdowns for Jamar Chase this year, most in the NFL. He really does do that. And I talked to Jamar about this in August, and he said that the favorite play in college was him literally saying, all right, just go down there.

I'll find you, do whatever. They don't even run play sometimes. They're just like, yeah, whatever. Bro to Jamar. It's literally what they've built their three. thing around. Yards yards after catch Jamar Chase is

setting next gen stats records. It's unbelievable. Those screen grabs where it's like how did this guy score from this position? Jamar Chase is building a career out of those. We're building the whole plane out of screen grabs on how did he score from here. It is unbelievable their connection.

It is a league changing connection. It's the kind of connection that when, as long as they're both healthy and they're both playing like this for the next 10 years, if both of the, if everything breaks right, they're going to compete every single year. That's what I saw in August. That's why I predicted they win 9 to 11 games and kind of, I was higher on them than most people. But this is exceeding my expectations. This is, this is the tippy top of this of my ceiling.

Stephen Ruiz. Do you still hate Joe Burrow? I never hated Joe Burrow. I just made the weak arm jokes. And you could see his weak arm on display on a couple of plays in this game. But like I said, on the Wednesday show, they've built the perfect receiving core for the type of quarterback he is. And he's taking full advantage of it. On that third and 27, the big vertical route to chase down the sideline, first of all, I thought it was a terrible call by Spagnola. Why are you playing cover one in that situation when we've watched Javar Chase win that one-on-one battle all afternoon?

but the fact that I, before the snap that I was even thinking, this is, I hope they're not playing cover one because they're going to just throw it deep to chase and he's going to catch the ball. Like I knew that was going to happen and then it happened. This is Devante Adams and Aaron Rogers-esque, where everyone in the building knows where the ball is going and it doesn't matter. There's only certain, especially with how they get it done. Like you said, the vertical routes, there's only so many ways you can help out there

without taking the safety completely off the field, are doing what the Bengals did to Adams, or the Ravens did to Adams when they were doubling him on like every play. And which makes everything easier for everyone else. It's just that, that partnership can take them a long way. I think this said more about the Bengals than it did the Chiefs, because I do think the Chiefs were a little bit unlucky to lose this game.

I mean, they went on the road against a good AFC team. They had a bunch of bad penalty calls against them. They lost their left tackle before the game. And then the replacement left tackle went out. And they still lost on the last. second field. Like I don't, I don't think this says anything about the Chiefs. I do think it, like you said, it reassures us that there is going to be parity in the AFC playoffs, but I still think they're the best team in the AFC. But I do think the Bengals are a threat now.

Okay. I agree with you. The Bengals are a threat. The Chiefs had won eight in a row. Like, we can't, just because they had a weird game and they could have won this game. Like, they're going to be punished and lose the buy and lose the top seat because they're weird October. They lost to the Titans by 24 points. Fair play to the Titans. We'll get to them in a little bit. But I don't, I don't come away from this saying, oh, it's panic time in Kansas City. I just come away from it saying, damn, Kansas City, wouldn't you like to have played a home AFC championship game?

That was never in the cards for Cincinnati. But that was the stakes in this one. But I, again, it couldn't be more impressed by the Bengals. And I just, I mean, I guess, Nora, the question is, can this team make the Super Bowl? Well, so if Jamar Chase is going to catch four out of five contested catches in every game, it takes them to get there. Like, yes. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Exactly. But like you watched that. Does that seem completely out of the realm of possibility? I don't think so. The flip side of that is again, like they don't have an easy button. You know, like if he's not winning those battles, they're not winning this game. There's not something to pivot to because they ask a lot because they play a lot of empty.

The line isn't great. they just have to win. Like, their guys have to beat their opponent's guys. And that extra supercalifragilistic happened. If it doesn't or doesn't quite so much, are they beating teams like Kansas City? That's a tougher, that's a tougher thing. But could Jamar Chase do that for three straight games? Like, I really, really don't have any sort of issue of visualizing that or imagining that happening.

Here's one concern I do have for them in the playoffs, specifically based on this game, is some of those PI calls aren't getting called in playoffs. Like, refs let cornerbacks hold in the playoffs, which is going to make the contested catch thing a little harder to replicate in the playoffs. Like, we've seen the Patriots get away with it

against the Chiefs, against this Chiefs team. They get more physical in the playoffs, and that's why the Chiefs had problems against them in 2018. That's my only concern. But I will say, if I'm a Chiefs fan, I do not want to see this Bengals team. again in the playoffs because of those ball winners they have on the outside and how the chiefs tend to play defense, it's just a terrible matchup for them.

This is the end of a remarkable comeback by Joe Burrow. And like, I think people forget last year how how devastating that injury was to franchise. And a lot of Bengals fans had the kind of here we go again idea in their minds with it with the franchise quarterback, potential franchise quarterback having the knee injury. It's unbelievable what he's been able to do. And the reports coming out of training camp in August. guess where, oh, it was bad. Listen, I was on this podcast a couple months ago.

I was saying it's a good thing that they all agree that everything sucks, right? Because there's a lot of teams that were having training camp where everything was sucking and they were saying nothing's wrong. Look at the press conferences today around the NFL. So a lot of people saying we're on the right track who aren't on the right track. The Bengals had, led by Burrow, had a bluntness and an honesty that you need in order to take the next step. And Burroughs come back and something certainly we've talked about.

everybody talked about other people. I think he had to learn a lot about himself over the past year. And to go from a franchise that has been in the wilderness for a few years to AFC North champion this quickly. And one of the things, you know, we all have questions about, about Zach Taylor. We've all done that. A couple weeks ago, we were talking about whether or not they should move on from him. But one smart thing that he did and Brian Callahan did, I think the world of Brian

Callahan, evidence coordinator is they gave borough ownership. They let him run the meetings. Like that, that's what you need to do if you're them right now. Listen, I think Burrow could get a lot, could use, could use help from a head coach and all that stuff. But if the alternative is Joe Burrow runs the team, I'm okay with that. Let him run the damn draft. I don't care. Anything else in this game, guys? No, the only thing I'll say is that I have now moved the Bengals up to tier one. I feel like we don't even have a solid grouping of the tiers right now. I'm not going to ask you to do it.

But if you did, hypothetically, who else would be on that tier? You just asked me to do it. We can't not. We can't tease it. We can't tease it. it and then not give the people here. Honestly, in the AFC, it's, it's chiefs and bangles for me at this point. Like, that game was enough to convince me that the Bengals are for real.

It was the game I've wanted to see from them. Two weeks, like two weeks ago, we can't forget that they almost lost to the Browns and they are the Broncos and they scored 15 points. So I thought the hype last week was a little unwarranted, but after this showing, they're a good team, man. They're a good team. They can play anybody.

Were the Colts tier one coming into this weekend? No. Okay. Interesting. Okay. All right. Next game, Cardinals 25, Cowboys, 22. Nice bounce back game for the Cardinals. The biggest news coming out of this, if we're talking NFC playoff scenarios, and we'll get, by the way, we'll get to all the playoff seedings and kind of our scenarios later in the show. Michael Gallup is out for the season with the torn ACL, according to Jerry Jones. There's an MRI Monday to confirm, but as is sort of how the Cowboys operate. Jerry Jones just says what's going on.

before there's any official word. Weird game. Dak had a fumble. Five passes batted down with the line of scrimmage. Most of any pass of the season according to football focus. On third down, three of 11, according to PFF. There's a lot to dig into

because I think that there was some momentum about the Cowboys' offense being back. I think if there were some talk, maybe the Cowboys were the best team in the NFC, and the Cardinals reasserted themselves in that conversation. We'd gotten so down on Cliff and even Kyler in the last couple of weeks that this was a nice reminder that they're still pretty good. Stephen, what did you take away from it?

I'm worried about the Cowboys offense. I mean, they've been putting up numbers all year and DAC has looked amazing at times, but I don't know. There's just something looks off about him like he's not fully healthy. And obviously he's coming off a major leg injury from last year. He had the shoulder issue in training camp. That was kind of mysterious.

But he's been missing throws of late that he wasn't missing earlier. the year. And he's missing in a way that looks different from when quarterbacks typically miss passes. Like passes are hitting the ground. His passes are getting batted down. I don't think he's running as much as he's done in the past. It's just, I don't know, something's off with him. And I'm worried about this offense going into the postseason because it's not operating like it was in months past. And I don't know if that defense is something you can count on every single week. And that's a problem in the playoffs. Because if you, you lay one egg in the playoffs, you're out.

So I, like before this week, I would have said the Cowboys are a Tier 1 team, taking them out. There's just too many questions about them. I don't think this is the year. If they could, like, roll this defense over to next year when DAC is fully healthy, I think that's the best team in the NFL. But we know defensive performance year to year just isn't sticky like that. So I'm afraid that we're not going to see this defense next year. Agree.

Here's the problem for the Cowboys. If the playoffs started today, guess who they'd play? The Cardinals. The Arizona Cardinals. The Arizona Cardinals. I think that the Arizona Cardinals would probably beat them again. Nora, what do we think about the Cowboys right now?

I'm with Stephen that it looked weird. Dak had this insistence on just getting the ball out super, super, super quickly, but it's averaged up the target was like five yards. And after it felt like they took a step forward last week where that offense was explosive again, it just takes away the confidence if all of a sudden that reverts. I really don't know what's going on, like whether it's a, health thing or just that they don't have all of their players. And then obviously being without Gallup only makes that worse going forward.

The weird thing is it didn't feel like he was under a crazy amount of pressure. It just seemed like this skittishness. And that, I think, is what is sort of concerning going forward because you wonder just how he's feeling right now when he's back there. And there's no reason at this point to believe that it's like directly health related because he's been back and he's looked good and he's looked confident. but something there is not totally right. And I feel like that Gallup injury is pretty big.

I don't think he's the, I don't think he's better than Amari Cooper, but losing, I'd rather lose Amari Cooper than lose Michael Gallup because of how they use them. When they isolate them to one side of the field, it forces the defense to declare how they're playing because Michael Galp,

like a Jamar Chase is a ball winner. He's a contested catch guy, and you can't just play him one-on-one all day. You saw him, I think on the play he got hurt. He actually made a downfield catch. And I don't know that the ceiling of this offense just isn't the same without him out there. I don't think he's the,

I don't even think he's the second best receiver on the team. He's the third best receiver, but his value goes beyond his talent level. Is Kyle Murray back three deep passes today? It didn't set the world on fire. But is this the kind of performance, Stephen, you want to see in January? Or are they kind of write-offs for you right now? It's hard to answer.

it looked like earlier season, Kyler Murray, with him creating stuff outside of structure. And that's good to see because he wasn't making those plays in recent weeks. Obviously,

he was hampered by the ankle injury. But it's just hard to rely on that. And that was always the question with the Cardinals, even when they were undefeated, 9 and 0, whatever they were, is this sustainable? And I feel like this performance

is not sustainable. If you have to rely on third and fourth down to get your big plays, and that's what they had to do against the Cowboys today. Yeah, I mean, I think the Cowboys are one of the most fascinating teams of football heading into January. I have no idea where this is going to go. I thought their problem was going to be Mike McCarthy.

The problem still might be Mike McCarthy. The game management is still horrendous. I thought Callan Moore earlier in the season was going to solve all of my McCarthy's problems. I don't know. I don't know kind of where the equation falls right now, but I don't know. I'm with you, Stephen. They've been dinged to my book and they're no longer tier one. Anything else in this game, guys?

Well, we should mention that the Cowboys could have won this game, right? Like, if McCarthy had had a challenge left on the fumble at the end, there was a very solid chance that this goes the other way. And, I mean, look, like, if we were going to go through every officiating thing that could result in what's going on with NFL officiating, what's going on with NFL officiating right now? The same thing that's always going on. I feel like it's gotten worse. Here's what's going on. But it always feels like it's gotten worse.

They have 65-year-old men chasing down 22-year-old men and trying to keep up with the action. That's the problem. It's a very simple solution. Should we have more refs spread out throughout the field and they don't move? Should we put the refs on segways? No, like regional refs.

Like a ref at the 5, a ref at the 10, and they just kind of have their own domain. They don't move. more reps is not the answer. You don't bring it in more. That's like the dog is bringing in an extra offensive coordinator. Like when does it end? No, fewer refs.

No refs. How about that? Players call their own fouls. I did a hottest take about how the NBA players should call their own fouls. Because you think about it. You think about it. It's all random anyway in the last two minutes of a game. So you might as well just have the drama of like, oh, Chris Paul called a

offensive foul on this. guy. You know, you at least have the drama instead of it's Tony Correnti. Like, why not have you know, Kyler Murray say that was helmet to helmet? And no offense to any refs listening. Actually, yes, offense to refs listening. You guys are the worst part about sports. So no, no, not in every sport. In every sport. Is that true?

Every sport. Without fail. Well. What about the massive corruption? And the injuries. What about the injuries? The head injuries are worse. The head injuries are worse. Okay.

Yeah. The corruption is fine, though. I did a story a couple years ago. Well, I mean, yeah, the corruption is fine. I did story a couple years ago with Pereira and Blendino. And their whole thing was, first of all, like, there's too many rules. And then the replay system has made it so that the refs like not only second guess themselves, but third guess themselves and fourth guest themselves.

And they're just kind of like, I remember Pereira saying this, that really like, refs make decisions based on what they think the league office wants and then everything just you can see the wheels turning in their head and then they just kind of choke so there you go too many rules and the refs choke there it is that's kind of my words not his um and and too many refs okay I feel like there I feel like the call is they want I think there might be like in this need for like one more ref

we can get to that midweek let's get to Raiders 23 Colt 20. This was another game where I think we had to correct the narrative because there have been a lot of Colts hype the last couple of weeks. Now let's let's have some context here. Wenz did not take a single practice for all week. I finished the game 16 at 27, 148 yards and a touchdown. Obviously practice matters NFL folks. I think we've been spoiled by some of these guys who've been on the COVID list showing up on Sunday and played really well. This was not one of those on intermediate passes. He was two of seven for 29 yards. Wence was. I did connect on a deep shot, but this was ugly. And this kind of, if you had the prior that the Colts couldn't win because Carson Wents would hold them back,

then Sunday was your game. This was a nice Raiders game. It was not in any way dominant. Zay Jones had 120 yards. He was Derrick Carr's security blanket. And Derrick Carr has the Raiders in a one and done situation, or excuse me, win and in situation on Sunday.

I don't think anybody expected. this out of this year. Nor, what do we think about the Colts? What do we think about the Raiders? You can take it anywhere you want. Well, so I saw very little of this game, but I'm surprised from the cold side of things because I really thought they had something going. I mean, Wenz is always, you never know what you're getting, but I thought they had a number of different ways that they could beat teams. And I think what it seemed like this showed, and again, I'm assuming you guys saw more of this game. So I'm curious if this held up. But their wide receivers are not exactly the most explosive bunch.

And I do think that that's a little bit of a weakness for them because they have some nice complimentary pieces. Obviously, the line is great. The running game is great. But I think depending on who they're playing, sometimes it's more evident than in other games that they just don't have a lot of like, wow, absolute number one guys. Yeah, yeah, this is like a Madden team. it's a bunch of like 75 to 80 overalls. That's how they built the team. And I don't think you can withstand that type of roster construction

when your quarterback is as bad as Wentz was on Sunday. And the fact that he didn't practice, that's for me, that's enough for me to just disregard the result. It was a close enough game. They didn't get embarrassed on defense. I mean, I'm not surprised Carson Wentz played poorly. Yeah. I don't know.

This is kind of expected. You would have told me, yeah, Carson Wentz was going to average minus 1.9 EPA per play, I would think they would lose. And they did. Do either of you think that the Colts can make the Super Bowl? For a lot of these teams, I think it comes down to their matchups, but no, because I think they're going to have to go through the Chiefs, and they're not going to beat the Chiefs with Carson Wentz.

I just can't see it. I just think that you just need, I understand the impulse to, and I've talked to people and they say, oh, well, he just needs to not screw up for three games. And I just don't think that that's how you win in the modern NFL. A, Nora? Yeah, I think they could, I think he could not screw up for two games. I think they could make the championship game. I think so, too.

I think they can make the championship game. Three is a lot to ask. They need someone else to take care of the Chiefs. If someone else takes care of the Chiefs, I think they could beat, they could play with any team in the AFC. Also, by the way, I mean, we should, they're not in the playoffs. Like, we got a decent amount of clarity in the AFC because the Chiefs the Titans the Bills, the Bengals and the Patriots are in.

But Indy, the Raiders, the Chargers, and the Steelers, like, two of those are going to be in and 20% chance. They have to beat the Jaguars, so there is. Yeah, which they'll do. I think we could beat the Jaguars. I agree. It's like Ring or NFL? Yeah.

We have to mention because it's the law that the Colts, like, can't beat the Jaguars, but I do think that this is where, like, this is the end of the line for the Colts not being able to beat the Jaguars. Stephen, here's the thing. about run our NFL we would have james jones um we would have danny kelly um it's probably about it i would i would call the defense is just played too high i said he's cooking he's cooking the jaguar secondary we have ryan chaiseer um he head coach i mean there there would be there would be a lot of talent there'd be a lot of talent uh and we would beat the jaguars is what i'm saying um all right

so i think that i'm looking at the puffs right now um see what would happen if the Colts in the AC title game played the one seed Tennessee Titans, who would be your pick? The Colts would beat them, barring like a complete Carson-Wence meltdown, which happened in the second game they played. But I thought over the two matches, I thought the Colts were the better team,

even though the Titans beat them twice. They look like the better team. If it wasn't for Carson Wentz, just completely losing his mind in the end zone, I think they win the game in overtime. So I'm still, I'm sticking with the Colts. Okay. Most 2021 Titans.

Like, they won both times, but I swear they were worse. Yeah, if Carson Wentz doesn't lose his mind in the end zone. You ever heard the Scorpion and the Frog story, brother? You familiar with it? Okay. Yeah. If Carson Wentz doesn't screw up in the end zone. That's what he does.

Like the scorpion, Carson Wentz also very effective at killing animals. Titans 34, Dolphins 3. Let's get off this topic and onto something we all love talking about, which is the Tennessee Titans, whether they're good. Steven, you have the floor? So the Titans won by 31 points, which hand up. I did not expect that. Here's why that doesn't matter.

No, it does. It does matter because I am going to say a nice thing about the Titans. This was going to be a negative to a rant, but it turned into a, the Titans looked pretty good on Sunday. They looked like the old Titans. And by the old Titans, I mean 2019, 20, 20, 20 Titans, where they weren't relying on Ryan Tannenhill to carry the offense, which is a good thing.

They were running the ball at will. They had 132 yards from Dante Foreman, 191 yards from all their running backs, and Ryan Tannahill just had to do his play action thing, which we know he's capable of. So this was like the old Titans formula, and if they add Derek Henry to that, I think they can play with anyone too,

because if the Chiefs aren't the Chiefs of 2018, 2019, I think the Titans can't play with them. They already blew him out this year, and they've beat them in the regular season in the past. So the Titans, I think they are a threat with Derek Henry. That's my nice thing I'm saying. They're still the 20th team in DVOA. They still, based on their point differential, should have six wins.

I don't think they're the best team in the AFC. I don't think they're a top five team in the AFC, but there's so much parity in that conference that I think they can go on a run. That's my nice Titans thing. Okay. At by Stephen Ruiz is the handle. Okay. So there's a couple things here.

I actually do want to go negative on Tua real quick. And I think that, Stephen, you want to join me on that one. Yes. Marcel, who does a great job covering the Dolphins for ESPN, had a just devastating quote and stat combination here,

where he said, Tua said the dolphins wanted to push the ball downfield today. He was six of 18 for 129 yards interception on passes beyond 10 yards. It didn't work. Strategy didn't work. They're two best deep throws, but he finally hit on one late in the, the game to waddle, but their first two deep throws of the game were by Jacoby

Brissette, who came in on third and one to fake a QB sneak. And then the second one, I think, was Mike DeSiki. It was one of the tight ends throwing deep. Everything else was Tua, the short passes. Okay, so Tuel was sacked four times. Not a surprise. We've seen him be pressured, I think most in the NFL. And the Titans have a good defense. Zach Cunningham has been a really, really nice pickup. I don't know if anybody's noticed that. It's been a very nice pickup, a weird cut in the middle of the season. He was overpaid by the Texans a couple of years ago, but he's been a very solid player for the Titans.

Denico Autry had a sack. Harold Landrie, the third, had a sack. Kyle Pecco had a sack and according to PFF, past freshman grade of 85, getting pressure. This Titans defense is pretty good. Nora, where are we on the Titans? Yeah, I think a little bit more encouraged by the Titans defense than just like the offense, I think we pretty much

know what it is. And obviously, if they get Henry back, then that makes a meaningful difference. But I do think that their pass rush especially has sort of put it on paper for long enough this season that we should pay attention. Obviously, going on to the Dolphins offense, that's going to be favorable. I think the scariest thing about that quote is maybe that is what qualifies as downfield passing in Miami right now. Everything's relative.

Yes. No, it is. It is. But the Titans are the one scene. They just have to beat the Texans next week. And there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do that. And I think I've bought into their defense. I think, you know, in some ways I'm bought into the offense just in terms of they are the thing that we know them to be.

And if Ryan Tannhill only has to do his play action thing, as Stephen so aptly put it, then I think that's fine. I don't know if that gets you, you know, three wins in the playoffs or two wins in playoffs. but they're solid. They're not the best team in the AFC, but they're solid. I don't have the best team of the AFC either. I'm going to go a little rant here. So the Titans have used,

I think they'd probably use more at this point, but they broke the record from most players used in a season. 86 was the record. 84 was the previous record. They'd used 86 as of a couple of weeks ago when they set the record. The 2020-49ers were the previous record holder. Obviously with COVID,

that makes things different, but it still remains true. that nobody's ever played more players than the Tennessee Titans. Nobody will this year. And their ability to still win, their ability to be physical, their ability to build a good defense on the fly, their ability to get better at things over the course of the season in the entire Vrabble era is a hallmark.

I mean, they got the conference championship game. They went up double digits on the chiefs. And we knew this whole thing for five years now. We used to go, hey, are the Titans good? That was our whole bit. That was our whole bit. And what's happening, I think, is that we're not giving Mike Vrabel respect for the culture that he's built.

We're not giving him respect for how good of a coach he is. We sit around and we praise all of these franchises. The culture, a good example for being a no excuses franchise from a GM standpoint, from a coaching standpoint. The Titans are the ultimate no excuse franchise. They win no matter what happens, no matter Derek Henry's out,

new quarterback, mid-season quarterback change, whatever. It doesn't seem to matter. They win. And I think if there were any, it was any other franchise, if it was a more historical franchise, if it was in a bigger media market, we'd be talking about the culture that they've built there.

And because the Titans are, I don't know, I mean, they're vaguely new. They're not in a huge media market. Mike Frable is not doing the press tours. For whatever reason, we just chalk it up to, this is weird instead of, hey, look, the Titans have built a system where they win consistently. And they're going to make the playoffs to the third time in three years. And then I've talked about nearly enough, Mike Frable should probably be a coach of the year candidate. Well, but the other reason is that they have Ryan Tannahill a quarterback instead of Patrick Mahomes.

Like, I think that is so valid when it comes to building a culture and toughness. I'm not comparing them to the chiefs. I'm just saying that they're a, they are, but that's part of it is they, they don't have Patrick Mahomes and they can still win consistently. Sure. But does that mean that you're picking them if they have to go against Patrick Mahomes and the chiefs in the playoffs?

Like, I think the question is, okay, they're the one seat in the AFC. Why don't we treat them like they're the best team in the AFC? They did beat the Chiefs by 24 points. If the Titans and the Chiefs meet in the, if that is the AFC Championship game, who are you picking? I think it would be a one score game. And I think the Chiefs would win. I don't think it would be a lot. The Titans also more recently lost to the Texans at home by nine points.

It was a two possession game that wasn't very close than they got blown out by a rookie quarterback. The Texans are getting hot at the right time. That's a good point. No, hold on. Like that's a valid thing. I am a Titans defender totally, but that offense cratered. And now it seems to be fine. Like the Chiefs, the Chiefs forgot how to play football for an entire month.

You can say it was fine, but they, but Ryan Tannahill threw for 180 yards. They just were able to run the ball on the Dolphins stuff. I, the Titans are a good team. I think I agree with your points about Mike. The Chiefs legitimately could have lost to Joe Judge this year. That was a different team, though. This is a different Chiefs team. Like the chief, that Chiefs team is the team that.

lost to the Titans by 24 points. If they played again, you would not pick them. You would pick, you would expect the Chiefs to win. I'm just saying that's my thing. That's my thing. You have to take it. We're all the big, big sample size people. And over the course of the season, the Titans have played really, really well and

deserve our respect as the one seed. I, I think they deserve our respect as a team that has overcome challenges in a really impressive way is tough to an extent that they do not get credit for and is probably, I probably am more inclined to think that they will make something a game than the average person. I think that they are legitimately difficult to beat. I also think that the dolphins went on a seven-game win streak against some of the worst teams and quarterbacks in football and were running a defense that was always going to be incredibly shaky against even slightly better competition.

And I think the Titans pretty squarely proved that they are not Mike Lennon. Right? I don't know if we can go that many steps further forward than that based on this. I agree with that. Just me on the Titans Bandwagon alone. But can I just hit on Tua real quick? Like I, like you said, I think we're the sample size people. We harp on sample size and I don't think you should overreact to one game samples.

But honestly, I don't know how you watch that game and have any confidence with this guy being your franchise quarterback. It was that bad of a game for him. With Tanna. Oh, no, with Tua. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. With the Dolphins. And this is the second week 17. I thought that debate was settled.

That's why I didn't know what we were talking, that we were going back to Tua. Tua is not a franchise quarterback. Like, I don't think you should be starting him in week one next year. Forget about this franchise quarterback talk. This is the second week 17 in a row where they've come into the week with playoff implications and he's just laid an egg. Last year was the three interception game against Buffalo's backups.

He had a QBR at 15.7. This year, his QBR was 8.0. It was worse than last year, which was. was a disaster. 182 net yards on 42 dropbacks. And it looked worse than the stats imply. I don't know how you can be confident going with this guy forward. Like going forward with this guy.

That's my takeaway from the game. That was my major takeaway. But I wanted to get the Titans some credit. Anything else in this game besides you hopping off the Titans bandwagon? I'm not off the Titans bandwagon. I just, I think I want some realism. I'm the voice of reason on the Titans Bandwagon. Uh, yeah, I'm kind of with Stephen.

I want to make a call. I want to make a call. I can't, I can't go through this without, without like a really sharp take, okay? As it currently stands, looking at the, looking at the standings right now, Tennessee Titans are going to want a playoff game

and they're going to host the IFC championship game. That's my guarantee. Okay, that's not the wildest. Is anyone on the podcast going to pick the Tennessee Titans if they play New England, Indianapolis, or Los Angeles, the Chargers. Hell no.

Anybody. Hell no. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm guaranteeing you right now they're losing that first game. Okay. Good. Nora, tiebreaker.

Who are you picking for this game that hasn't been scheduled? Buckle up your chinstrap, buddy. Who you don't want to go to Nashville? You don't want to go to Nashville and play. You heard Logan Ryan. They don't have any fans. I'm just hoping I can sit here and like Kevin keep like talking smack for like two minutes. Then we're going to move on.

Yeah. All right. Good thing we guaranteed hypothetical hypothetical. hypothetical matchups in four weeks by teams that probably aren't even going to play each other. All right. Let's move on here to the listener questions. This is from T.J. Furman. He asks if the 2018 Patriots had lost their ninth game and gone six and three,

we would Bill Belichick be coaching today. Now, this is a deep cut T.J. joke because it's something Joe Judge said on Sunday. It was part of one of the dumbest rants I've ever heard in my entire life. And the reference is that Joe Judge, in an 11-minute answer on what he's building or why should the fans have faith, said in 2018, when Joe Judge was an assistant coach with the New England Patriots, in 2018, I was part of a team who halfway through the season, we were all pretty convinced we were getting fired. We didn't think we were going to make the playoffs, had no concept of anything that was coming. We just knew we were going to keep showing up and improving week after week. On the outside, we were all terrible. we didn't care about any of the noise on the outside

we didn't care about it at all what did we do what did we care about on the inside what were we doing guys showed up they worked they fought they worked okay that's his work he's the one that repeated himself not me and then they ended up winning a championship that was the that was the punchline

of the long quote which continues this did not happen none of it happened okay nobody thought the 2018 patriots were not going to make the playoffs nobody thought anybody including he said we all so i guess that assumes bill belichick nobody had bill bea bocacheck on the hot seat nor are you in new england at that time i don't know if you had to aggregate any uh any who's coming into new england to coach a 2019 patriot stories

uh don't think no one said this no one happened also on the outside we were all terrible find me find me a 2018 story calling the new england patriots who by the way won the super Bowl, finally who said they were terrible. Because I think they were seven and two at midseason. Like, this is ridiculous. But let's peel back the lens here, okay? He said a number of untrue things in this 11-minute rant. He said that multiple players who are making more money and play elsewhere have called

him to tell him that they wish they played for the Giants this year, which doesn't even make sense. Jason Fitzgerald said there's only two players like that, Kevin Zitler, and Dalvin Tomlinson, I don't think either of those guys have been calling Joe Judge. Or BJ Hill. B.J. Hill is on that way. So Barnwell also did a breakdown of, because it's practice squad guys, the whole thing. There have been multiple, there's conflicting reports about kind of who left the team and is in a

war situation. And leaving aside, we don't need to get into the particulars because this did not happen. You don't need to go and find the culprit because it did not happen. Joe Judge is lying. I mean, B.J. Hill has five and a half sacks for the big. goals who won their division and seemed like they're having a nice time. Most, actually, in my opinion, most offensively, he said that when he got here, here is in New York in 2019, after the 2019 season, he said that everybody, everybody

on the team, he said everybody on the team. There's not exaggeration, came to him and said that the team had quit on Pat Schumer. Well, the team had won two of the last three, to the point that Michael David Smith and pro football talk actually said that there were. Giants fans complaining how good they were playing down the stretch. Okay. That's a shot of Pat Shermer. I think it's unfair. I don't even know Pat Schumer, but that's a shot

and I think it's a I think it's kind of scummy to be honest with you to say, oh, they quit on the last guy and they told me that. He's lying. Joe Judge is lying to you. Like this did not happen. And then to kind of cap it all off at the end of the rant, he said this ain't some clown show organization. That's another lie.

Fun fact, during the Joe Judge era, the Giants have only won two out of three on two separate occasions. So not a bad, so not a bad coaching job by Pat Shermer. The team quit on him and he still won two out of three and still accomplished something that that Joe Judge has struggled to accomplish in two years. And by the way, why are you bringing up the 2018 Patriots? I don't know if you know this Joe Judge, but it's week 17 and you guys aren't making the

playoffs. Like that Patriots team went on to win the Super Bowl and they were six and two. Why are you drawing comparisons to that team? That makes you look worse. Nora, Joe Judge? Yeah. Well, the reason this happened is because after the game, somebody asked Joe Judge why he was the,

why he should be trusted to be the person to write the ship, which was a relevant question because the Giants lost to the Bears 29 to 3. And their passing offense totaled negative 10 passing yards. How many? By the way, Joe Judge has been declared safe. Negative 10. They were in the red. So I joked earlier that we could beat the Jaguars, but we had more passing yards than the Giants today.

Goodness gracious. Yeah, this podcast. I mean, here's the thing is I really honestly don't know which is worse, just the abject lying or the parts where it seems like he actually believes it. Like, he's talking about the 2018 Patriots who won the Super Bowl. He also said there's a lot of teams that are out of playoff contention. As if to say, you know, there are a lot of teams who have had worse seasons than the Giants and didn't get to be part of such a competitive front.

franchise. First of all, like more teams than ever were in playoff contention for longer this season. So that is not true. The other thing is just like, I don't understand how you can be a coach at this point in your having been with a team for multiple years and still be talking about a foundation and not think that sounds absolutely ridiculous. Like if you hire someone to build a house for you and after two years, they're telling you about the foundation, you're not going to be like, oh, what a great foundation. You're going to be like, where is my house? I'm done.

Okay. I know it's a great, it's a great round, Nora. I just, the thing that is just driving me crazy is that, I don't know. I mean, that Joe Judge was declared safe and then he just kept talking. And now I think he's talked himself into being unsafe. Okay. So, sorry. Can I list two more, two more lies slash like just ridiculous statements?

It's lies all the way down. Yes. So I guess this isn't really a lie, but he said, this ain't a team that's having fistfights on the sidelines. By the way, Jojo said ain't in this like 12 times. He developed a southern accent. He kept saying all right too. He said, all right, 22 times.

Someone said it on Twitter. I covered this man for several years. I've never heard him speak like that. Is he trying to get the LSU gig? The Rams had a sideline altercation today between Jailon Ramsey and Taylor Rap. The Rams were 12 and 4. So maybe being a team that's having fist fights on the sidelines, it's actually not the worst place that you can be in.

His southern accent. Actually, he's doing McConaughey is what he's doing. That was some folks were saying. It was a McConaughey accent. I would rather have Matthew McConae coach the Giants. And I believe, is he a Cowboys fan or is he a Washington fan? He's like very much a fan of one of their division rivals. He would still rather have to me.

Yeah, he's like a big Washington fan. the uh Doug Baldwin and Percy you haven't gotten a fist fight now they won the Super Bowl like three days later. Yeah it's fine. Jo Jo Judge has a way worse thing. It was Golden Tate. Don't be smirch Doug Baldwin. It's golden Tate.

Is that true? That's 100% true. I'm looking it out. Form a giant. No, oh my God. He fought both of them. Oh. Maybe that's the key. Maybe that's the missing piece.

The giants need to fight. Percy Harvin was on fire Super Bowl week. This is the headline, Bleacher Report. Percy Arvin confirms he fought Golden Tate and Doug Baldwin during Seahawks tenure. They may have been different times. I don't know if they had like a Royal Rumble or whatever, but he definitely fought both of them. So Percy Harvin, getting after it.

So my major takeaway from this NFL season, like after seeing what happened in Jacksonville, what's happening in Carolina, what's happening in New York, is I just want to get in the room with an NFL owner. I'm convinced, give me an hour, and I will never have to work hard again for the rest of my time. life. I can trick one of them into giving me a couple million dollars. Could you become the Jack Easterbee of like 15 franchises? I think so. I think 15's a low number. Carolina, definitely.

Nora, I know everything to say to David Tepper to trick him because I know Matt Rule is not the brightest guy, our brightest coach, and he did it. Norah, how many franchises could you become the Jack Easter B of? Well, first of all, Jack Easterby did that, so it can't be that hard. All right. We're at a time. We have one more. question. We'll get to it really, really quickly. David asks, what are our ideal playoff matchups if you could pick the outcomes of Week 18? So we kind of know what we're looking at the Chargers and the Raiders play on Week 18. Real quick, I'll just go over it. Green Bay has the one seed, L.A. 2 seed, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Arizona, San Francisco, Philadelphia. Then in the

AFC, it's Tennessee, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Buffalo, New England, Indie, and then the Chargers and then the Raiders could sneak in there as well. So ideal playoff matchup. We'll start with you, Nor. I think it would be fun. I think India at Cincinnati would be really interesting just because I still have a little bit

of Colts mojo. I also I mean Chargers seeing Herbert Burrow would be cool. I was going to say the matchup that is currently on the books which is Chargers Chiefs. Yeah.

Chargers Chiefs three, let's go. A lot of these are good. I was going to say there's only one right answer and it's Chargers Chiefs in my opinion. Like give us that Thursday night game. Was it a Thursday night game? I don't know. But that game was like the game of the year.

I want to see it again. Actually, I think the way that the AFC playoffs are currently set up, which is Chargers and Chiefs, Colts at Bengals, Patriots of Bills is like, that's what we want. Cool.

Here comes Derek Carr. Here comes Derek Carr to ruin it. Right. You're going to be watching Derek Carr and two Jay Jones They're going to get the two seats

on Nickelodeon No one will be watching Tua Dude Nick Siriani is it going to be the guy on Nickelodeon Wow They're in the seventh seat right now There we go

I assume Nickelodeon's getting the two in the seven seat as it was last year All right guys this has been great Thank you to Isaiah Blakely For his production help Additional Production Supervision By Arjuna Ramcapul

We will be back midweek. We're back to our normal schedule for week 18. That means I'll be back on Wednesday, players show on Tuesday, Nora, and now on Thursday, Stephen on Friday. And then Ben So-Selak joins the three of us next week as well. It's been the Ringer NFL show on the Rinner Podcast Network.