The Ringer NFL Show - Week 18 Recap: Raiders Win an OT Thriller, Jags Shock Colts, and Niners Come Back to Beat Rams

Episode Date: January 10, 2022

Kevin and Nora are joined by Steven Ruiz to discuss the craziness that went on in Week 18, starting with the Las Vegas Raiders clinching their spot in the playoffs by defeating the L.A. Chargers in overtime (1:25). Then they discuss the Colts losing to the Jaguars and missing the playoffs (19:32). After that they discuss the Niners’ comeback victory on the road, the Steelers’ improbable path to clinching a playoff berth, and Miami sweeping the season series with the Patriots (39:59). Hosts: Kevin Clark and Nora Princiotti Guest: Steven Ruiz Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, long-time writer with the Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It is the Runaround-Fell Show, part of our podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark joined on a Sunday night by Nora Princeati, Nora Hello. Everything's insane.

What was that? What was that? Stephen Ruiz is also here. Hello, Stephen. That was my attention to do what she just did. Guys, no one's okay. There was going to be a tie, and then there wasn't a tie, and we're all losing our minds, and our pets' heads are falling off. I'm not going to be able to sleep for like three days. Ben Solac is on IR designated to return.

He's our Derek Henry. He'll be back. next week. He has texted me some takes. So those will be thrown in intermittently throughout the podcast, which we're very excited about. He is also confused about the first game we're going to talk about, which is the Raiders overtime, victory over the Chargers, 3532. The game ended on a 47-yard field goal with two seconds left after a epic game. There's so much to unpack. The first thing we need to unpack is the game management strategy from Brandon Staley, where it looks like the Raiders were content to

drain the clock, or at least I think this game would have ended on a kind of a fake Hail Mary, kind of like, oh, we tried kind of thing, and then they would take the tie. That, of course, would have kept the Steelers out of the playoffs. Both teams would have made it. Classic kind of economist, you know, kind of game theory kind of thing, Prisoner's dilemma. But the timeout from Brandon's Daly changed the calculus. Derek Carr admitted as such. That meant that the Raiders went for the first down. They got it. They kicked the field goal.

Nora, what did you think? Okay, hold on. In a classic, nobody needed to win this game. In a classic prisoner's dilemma, this is an easier question than a classic prisoner's dilemma because of a classic prisoner's dilemma,

the best individual outcome is not to cooperate, but the best collective outcome is to cooperate. In this scenario, both the best individual outcome and the best collective outcome were to stop trying, particularly after for 60 plus minutes of the most insane football game I have ever witnessed.

Like, you can't get fined for that. What's Roger Goodell going to do? Be like, oh, you didn't try to win? Justin Herbert completed like 800 fourth downs. Anyway, my point is that I think Brandon Staley just single-handedly kept the chargers out of the playoffs with a, with one timeout call. I don't, wait, I don't understand, like Derek Carr admitted this. I missed this after the game. He said it changed their calculus.

How, though? It was 34. Because they were full on not trying. They were doing an accidental collude. They were going to drain the clock down. The clock was, there was five seconds left on the play clock. They would snap it and they would, they would do what happened. Run the ball, which they did anyway, and they got the first down.

Like, the problem was the charges couldn't stop the run. Yeah, you can't, that's the problem with colluding with the chargers is you can't be like, oh, we'll run the ball. I don't understand, like, the hand ringing over the timeout. I thought it, I don't have any problem with the timeout. The Chargers had like a run blitz called. They came out and gun with their receiver spread out. But I would call a timeout too.

You're working within the realm of, like, logic and how to win a football game. The Raiders, like, did not seem interested in continuing to play. I feel like the Raiders should have been interested because if they tie, you're playing the Chiefs. I agree. I agree. So, Nora, I actually am pushing back on this. I would have tried to win the game. I think that with two minutes left, I think it's a different kind of calculus.

And maybe you just, if you would run one or two less plays. But I do think that for 60 minutes or 70 minutes, 69 minutes and 50 seconds, I think you probably do try to win the game. You were higher on the intentional tie than we were. That is a different thing that I will be perfectly happy to unpack in a second. The Raiders were, there's value in the Raiders winning the game, right? Like I would rather not play the Chiefs. Thank you very much.

Right. And I would also rather if I were another AFC team, I would rather the Steelers be in the AFC playoffs than the Chargers be in the AFC playoffs. Like there are reasons to play for the win even though a tie would have gotten both teams into the playoffs. What I'm saying is that the reason I think people are noticing and why Derek Carr was saying that the timeout changed the mindset is because it seemed as though at that point in the game. The Raiders mindset was like everybody could try, good effort, shake hands. We're all in the

playoffs. And the timeout seemed to be the thing that shifted that. But my, my thing is like, what was the play call before the timeout? Because it wasn't a kneel. They were in the gun. Was it like, oh, this is our bad run play. And now we're going to call our good run play. Yes. But a pass is going for the first down more than a run. It would have been a four. I understand. I understand it. But we run the fourth down if they, right. I mean, it's, first of all, it's, it's And also, I just want to be fair to Derrick Carr. He also said that they did want to win the game. They wanted to win the game.

He said he texted with Aaron Rogers. Rogers gave him some advice as well. So they wanted to win the game. They weren't going for the tie. I just think that, Nora, I agree with you, that it looked extremely laxadaisical before that timeout. I think they wanted to win the game at 8 o'clock p.m. until like, I don't know, two years ago when the middle of the fourth quarter started.

By the time that timeout was taken, things had changed. All right, let's analyze some other parts in this game because as you said, Nora, it was one of the most amazing games we've ever seen in my entire life. So it goes to overtime on a last second touchdown that was as interesting as anything. It was as interesting a drive as I've seen in my entire life. Mike Williams gets a 12-yard touchdown pass. I believe I want to get the stats here. For fourth down on the game, the Chargers were 6 of 7. Like, that's all you need to know.

The Chargers were 4 of 18 on 3rd down, and then 6 of 7. on fourth down. Stephen, as a Herbert dollars at this point, what did you see out of him tonight? My comparison is this looked like the Super Bowl with what Patrick Mahomes was going up against, except for like Herbert played out of his mind and actually moved the offense down the field

and scored touchdowns. Like he was under duress all game long. His receivers could not catch a pass that he was putting right on their hands. They didn't have a run game and they kept running the ball early on in the game. It wasn't until midway through the fourth quarter that they went over 50,

percent run pass on early downs, like 50 percent pass. So I don't know why they were running the ball for the first three and a half quarters, but then they waited until the end of the game to put it in Herbert's hands and he did what he did. It was one of the most impressive quarterbacking performances I've ever seen. I am biased because I am such a Herbert defender. Would you guys back that statement up? I, 100%. He was unbelievable.

Every single other person on his offense was actively undermining his individual. effort. I wouldn't go that far. Okay, I was trying to do a little Stephen there. Come on. I actually don't think that it was as dramatic as as Mahomes in the Super Bowl. I mean, Mahomes in the Super Bowl, that was the biggest discrepancy between pressured quarterbacks in the history of football, like ever, in the history of football. Like, it was a little different tonight. Yeah, but Matt Filer was, like, having a great season before he started cheating for the Steelers.

That's not a thing I really think. I think Storm Norton is, uh, is not going in the Chargers Hall of Fame. No, no, no, no, obviously, like, Mahomes had more pressure to keep up with Brady and Derek Carr, one of the weirder quarterbacking games I've ever seen. It was like every throwaway or like a floated pass that was five yards past his receiver. It was a weird game. But I think in terms of like what he was facing individually and not, you know, game script, I think it was comparable to what Mahomes was under, what, kind of. of pressure he was under in the Super Bowl. Max Crosby was in his face, like, within two seconds every snap. Max Crosby played out of his mind, and Max Crosby is one of the best past coaches in football

at the moment, and you got to see that. Are either of these teams particularly, so actually, let's go through the playoff schedule now before we get to start talking about hypothetical matchups here. So, or actually not even hypothetical, real matchups. Raiders at Bengals at 4.30 on Saturday. Patriots at Bills at Bills at 815 on Saturday. Eagles at Bucks 1 p.m. on Sunday, 49ers, Cowboys, 430 on Sunday. 8 o'clock Sunday, Steelers at Chiefs, and then 8.15 on Monday, Monday, Monday,

football in the playoffs, the Cardinals at the Rams. So it's Raiders at Bengals. Do you think, Nora, that this, you know, obviously the matchups were changing over the course of the game. We know that now. We know that it's Raiders versus Bengals. Is this a good matchup? Can this team make normal?

having seen what you saw tonight? Yeah. Yes. I think they have it in them because I do think that the defense is strong enough. The past rush is strong enough where if they are just going to consistently get this type of wrecking pressure, the Bengals offensive line is fragile enough that they could make an impact. I mean, the Bengals offense and Burrow and those receivers have the potential to play out of their minds in a way that car does not.

They got Darren Wallerback, which is significant, although he didn't do a ton in this, but I don't think that they could keep up at a shootout, but I do think that their defense could impact Burrough particularly because of the offensive line. Steven, same question. I mean, like, my inclination is that I think the Bengals are going to win kind of comfortably,

but I think that we've probably been underrating the Raiders all season on this podcast. Where do you go with this? Yeah, this is, I think these teams already played each other and the Bengals won pretty easily. But I do agree with Nora. Like if the Raiders are going to stay in a chance, it's going to be the pass rush going up against that bad offensive line.

If Max Crosby has a game like he did tonight, and that's very possible against a bad Bengals offensive line, that I think they have a chance to stay in it. My one concern would be that I don't think you're going to get those dropped passes. I don't know if you can consider them dropped passes, but there was contested catch situations that the Charters receivers didn't win on, but I think the Bengals receivers will win on those. And that will be a big difference between this game we saw on Sunday night and the game we're

going to see next weekend. By the way, Solax's text take is that the Raiders wanted to tie and say we didn't let them in all caps. What was the craziest moment of the game for you guys? Not counting the timeout and all that stuff. Like we saw there were like a hundred things where I was just, I was floating just because it was such good football or not even good. Good might be the wrong word.

Like it was just football. It was maximum football. Was there a moment where you guys were just like, this is, gotten completely out of hand. Well, the, the, when it got to the point where, so, yes, I was team, you play to tie the game from the start. Now, I want to not sound like a crazy person. I did not think that they were actually going to do this.

I thought there was absolutely zero chance that they would do that. I do think that we should acknowledge as part of our conversation about the game that the obvious best thing to do, the objective best. outcome for both teams would have been to make this a non-competitive exercise. But that was not going to happen. And there's a possibility. Like, you know, the league could have fined people or whatever. I would love to know if anybody made a call.

Like, did anybody just feel it out, try to. No. Try to take the polls on any. No way. No way. There would have been investigations. But hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Here's the craziest moment. Was when after the Chargers.

field goal in overtime, when you can see on the player's faces that everybody is confronted with the situation that they never legitimately imagined they could be in. And think about what a football game is like in that moment. It's chaos. Like, no one knows what everybody else is thinking. Everybody is sort of trying to look around them and go,

is this still the thing that we thought it was? What are we supposed to do here? Like, that was an incredibly surreal experience. to have the merging of these two things that had been like a fun hypothetical thing to talk about of like at what point does actual interest in just being able to make the playoffs without trying versus the realities of you know needing to compete and do all this stuff like seeing those things actually come up against each other and figure out what the tipping point would be when all of a sudden people are actually considering not trying to win fascinating. I agree. So the two things for me, Stephen, and maybe you have the same, maybe you have different. So the two things for me, first of all, the third and eight in overtime to Zay Jones, which was just an unbelievable pass that completely changed the entire flow of the game. If they punt there, that everything changes from there. Then we're not even in position for stay away to call the time out.

The other one, obviously, is the one that got them to the 12-yard line at the end of regulation, which was a, was to Gaiton, and that was, I think it was, it was, it was, 17 yards. And that was just an unbelievable throw. It was, it was, I think there was some probably that could have gone either way in the review because the ball was bumbling around, but it was an unbelievable catch. I mean, that to me, everything that had to happen to go perfectly. Like, when Collinsworth was like, you couldn't even write a movie like this. Like it would be an incredibly long and drawn out movie. It was just thing after thing after thing. Like the script writer would have been like, can we just consolidate this into like two plays? It was like 15 of them.

It was just, it was an assault of good football or interesting football at least. I don't ever say anything like what stood out for you were always i i think that last drive but if i had to pick one moment and this happened before like the game really got drunk was the fourth down in their own territory i think they're on the 18 yard line the charters going for it and it wasn't so much the decision to go for it which i i understand why people push back against that even though the analytics say that's the right way to do it in that situation but that call running austin eckler who's like five eight of the middle against a defense line that you haven't been able to block for two games straight.

They couldn't block the Raiders in the first game. And I'm making that call when you have Justin Herbert, who is a massive human being, the biggest player on the field, if not County defensive lineman, I didn't understand that at all. And honestly, I think it ended up working out because the charges fell behind enough where they gave the game to Herbert and he led them back. But that call, man, like, I'm not one of these people that are going to say, like, Staley is overrated and he should be on the hot seat, but that was bad.

It didn't look good. There's a lot of video coming out postgame of the Chargers players, basically grilling the Raiders and what their strategy was at the end and being very frustrated. We'll have to find out what exactly was happening there, but that seems to be the general gist

is that they were trying to pump information. The game's been over for like 10 minutes. We're going to find out a hell of a lot more, especially the press conferences haven't even happened. This is going to be like, for the first half of this week, people are going to be talking about this a lot. Anything else in this game, guys?

Can I pick one more insane moment? Yes. The two-point conversion, the first, on the first touchdown, when Herbert held onto the ball for like five seconds, it went through every read in his progression, was like one of the best quarterbacking plays I've seen this year. Because you can watch, like, Tom Brady's whole career and he probably has gotten to his fifth read like three times.

And for him to do it under that pressure in that situation is crazy. What are we going to say, nor about the broadcast? The broadcast did not show the coaches meeting after the game. They showed the quarterbacks, like, looking dumbfounded at each other, but they didn't show the coaches meeting and need that film. Somebody give it to me. Somebody find it. Come on.

I just want to do 15 seconds on this. If they had tied like that, do you think there would have been any, any? I think if there was any of it. Remember, everybody's all miced up. That's the problem. If you were actually going to collude, I don't think they would ever would have collude. I don't think they're dumb enough to actually do that.

But what I'm asking you is if they had, let the clock run down, what would have happened? Would the league have said anything? Like, what game that out for me? If it was just totally natural and they just let the clock run out with, you know, or just taking that, that kind of Hail Mary kind of thing or whatever. I think at that point in the game, like, what do you say about it? First of all, the NFL has gotten, like, the NFL's objective is to get what it wants, right? And the NFL at that point has gotten everything that it could possibly want. It has probably the best playoff field that it could have gotten, which would have been both of these teams making it over the Steelers. Sorry, Pittsburgh. It also got an insanely

wild and competitive Sunday night football game. I think they just let it slide. Now, here's the, here's the thing. What if that happens? And everybody's miced up, you know that there was no, like, nobody ordered the code red, but you see the coaches like lock eyes from across the field. and Aaron Rogers Tomlin style like nods, sup. No. No. They would never do that.

It would be the complete opposite of that. But what if it wasn't real? Like, what if it was an accident? You're buying beer when you're underage or something. And you're just completely natural. Yeah. Nobody says anything. I behind the counter is not like, you're underage.

You know, I'm letting you buy this beer when you're underage. No, you just let it happen. Mm-hmm. You don't tempt fate. But I don't tempt fate. I don't think anything would have came of it. I feel like teams have kneeled out at the end of overtime just to clinch a tie. And the Raiders could very easily argue that that was the best thing to do in the interest of their season.

Also, teams in Week 18 try to not win all the time. Like, I understand that I'm clinging desperately to logical reasoning that does not really apply to this situation because what applies to this situation is what Roger Goodell wants. But let's not pretend that everybody is trying their. hardest on every snap the last week of the season when it doesn't interest their football team. All right. So the Raiders, according to post-game press conferences, had conversations among the coaching staff about just taking the tie after Jacobs 10-yard rush on third down, they decided to kick. That doesn't really answer anything.

That doesn't answer what they were going to do on third down before the timeout. Right. Are they saying like, yeah, we weren't going to take a 65-yard field goal? We weren't going to run a play. We were just going to run around. I don't know. We're going to have more questions and answers here for kind of a while. All right.

Let's move on to a game that's just as confusing, but in a different way. It's Jack O'Rs 26, Colts 21. A couple weeks ago, I said on this podcast that I talked to a couple people around a league and that nobody wanted to face the Colts in the playoffs. Well, the good news is those folks don't have to worry about it because the Colts embarrass themselves. Now, a lot of people said that this game was like the 2003 Vikings Cardinals game. If you don't remember, the Cardinals won in the last play of the game, kept that pretty good Vikings team out of the playoffs.

The difference there is that that game was close. This game was just an embarrassment. The Colts got whipped. The Jaguars fans, fan base, showed up in clown wigs, and the Colts left with them. This was awful. They got stuffed on short yardage conversions. They just do everything. Everything was bad.

Every part of the game was bad. The offensive line of the Colts allowed 19 pressures. Quentin Nelson, who had had four games in a row of a completely clean pass protection. He surrendered three pressures, two hurries and a sack, according to PFF. Roy Robertson Harris was in the Colts backfield all afternoon according to PFF. This was not supposed to happen. This was awful. Stephen helped me out here.

What happened? Well, for one, Trevor Lawrence waited until week 18 to look like the first overall pick. I think that was one of the bigger takeaways from this game is he finally looked like the quarterback that was promised. He's shown flashes throughout this year, but this was the first time he put it all together and it was just flash play. And it was just flash play after flash play after flash play. You made a couple throws that were just amazing.

And then obviously Carson Wentz. I mean, I was going to say, it takes more than a good Trevor Lawrence game for this to happen. But like you said last week, like we know, this was. what Carson Wentz does. This is what he does. And I mean, I don't think the Colts should be surprised that Carson Wentz threw away the season. That's what he did. He just finds a way to make a bad play worse consistently every week. And he's been doing it for four years now. And I don't know how you can be surprised by it. I feel like this is a, this is a turning point for this Colts organization, the front office. I think it's going to be hard to come back from this. I think

they've lost the faith of their fan base now. You gave up a first round pick for a, for a guy that literally threw away your season. By the way, the Patriots beat the Jaguars 50 to 10 last week. Right. So this isn't like the surging. This isn't the surging Jaguars. This is a pretty bad Jaguars team that was headed nowhere. And the Colts made them look like a legitimate NFL team.

This was bad. Nora? Wentz was not good. I'm fully, fully, fully on board with that. But like the idea of Carson Wentz throwing away a pivotal game at the end of the year, like that does not feel. like something I can't pretty easily fathom. If you had told me this morning that the Colts were going to lose to the Jaguars

while their offensive line gave up 19 pressures and six sacks and just got routinely messed with. Manhandled. By the Jaguars. I would have been really, really, really surprised by that statement. I would have probably been more receptive to the, there's going to be a crazy situation. in which two teams are encouraged not to try.

The Jaguars last three games before this, they gave up 50 points to the Patriots. They lost to the Jets, and they lost by 14 points to the Texans. Like Kevin said, this was not a surging Jaguars team. This is arguably one of the lowest points in Colts franchise history, and this is a team that bolted in the night 40 years ago.

Let's not go that far. This is one of the most embarrassing things. I don't know what was going on before the merger. I'm not a huge pre-merger guy. This is one of the most embarrassing things since the merger. Like, all of things considered, this is one of the... I don't know how you would rate that exactly, but I couldn't imagine anything more embarrassing.

Look, like the Raiders seem kind of feisty now, but it matters that the Colts needed to win just one of two games against teams that, while there is a huge difference between the Raiders and the Jaguars, both were beatable, right? Like, if you want to call yourself a playoff, off team. Either one of those should be winnable games. They could not win either one of those games to teams with interim head coaches that have gone through a whole lot of nonsense. And it's not

the thing about the Colts, right, is like we've never had conversations about the Colts where we've been like, oh my God, Carson Wentz is amazing. The Colts are amazing. The Colts can win the Super Bowl. But the Colts are so routinely not an embarrassment. And then they played the team with the clown fans and they did this. And it's just like what I'm upset. So unless the Colts can trade whence, they're going to be on the hook for $15 million in dead cap next year. Well, that's just traded a first round pick form.

In addition to that. I mean, they almost have to eat that cap hit. I feel like they can't go into next year with this guy as the starter. Well, shouldn't they just at least have some backup where it's, I mean, I was going to say like a Case Keenum type, but the funny thing is, is the Browns had a Case Keenom type, and they only used him when Baker Mayfield was,

was beyond repair. So who knows about that? But somebody like that where they can at least come in and give you something when Carson... I think that the problem is not having Carson once in the roster.

They've made their bet. They traded a first-round pick for him. He played enough to the point that that became the first. He's going to be expensive next year. That's situation they're in. The problem is not that necessarily.

It is a problem, but it's not the problem. The problem is that in a day like today, you need to say Carson, you're about to ruin our season, go sit down for a couple of quarters. That's, that was, in my opinion, that, that might have been the problem. And just bring in a professional quarterback to just make, make something happen.

Well, I'm just saying in this, they would have made the playoffs if they were able to just do something like this. And it was interesting. I was reading, I was reading a lot of the Coltriders afterwards. And they were basically saying this was a complete failure at every level at the Chris Bauer level. I was reading the athletic earlier and they're talking about, you know, the, the miscalculation at edge rusher today.

there was not a lot of pressure today, especially off the edges. And that's been a problem all season, basically. And, but I still think Chris Bowler is top three GM, top five at worst. I think that, you know, Frank Reich is a really good coach. They had no energy today, no energy. They came out, I know this is anti-scientific, but they just came out flat and you could see it. There was just not, there was no juice. There was no push.

There was no anything. And I think that the scientific diagnosis here is that they thought that they were going to win this game by five scores. and they didn't. And I don't know what that is. You know, I mean, one of the things, listen, I'm sure Frank Wright took this game seriously and all that stuff, but one of the things that Bill Belichick does so well is he hipes up a team that they're playing,

even the Jaguars, as if they're the 85 bears. When I was in college, I covered NFL team, and the 2007 Dolphins is a sophomore in college, and I was listening to a conference call, and the dolphins were going one in 15 that year. That was the Cleo Lemony or the Kim Cameron year, all that stuff. And they asked Bill Belichick, like, what he saw the dolphins.

And he was like, Ronnie Brown is the best player I've seen in football this year. And then he was like, and then someone was like, how did not be overcome? The dolphins were like, oh and nine. It was the mosque. It was the Cameron Royal Moss game. And Belichick was just like, I have no idea why I would be confident in this game. Like, I have no idea. Like, are we favorites?

I have no idea. And like, that is the attitude you always have to have. And you never see a Belichick team get caught like this. And all I'm saying is that whatever attitude the Colts had, coming into this game. It was the exact wrong attitude to have because they came out with nothing. Does Belichick forget to have that attitude

every time the Patriots have to play the dolphins in Miami? The dolphins are feisty. They are fiesty. I'm just kidding. I totally agree with you. Also, some wild Belichick quotes out there about Sam Darnold. The only time that happened was when, remember they lost to the,

when Jim Bates was the interim coach in 2004, I think they went down and lost. That was the only time where it was just like, oh my God. I can't believe you lost this. I mean, I just want to, I just want to point out that, like, a couple minutes ago, Nora referred to the Jaguars as beatable, which is the nicest thing anybody has said about the Jaguars all year long.

Okay, technically I was referring to the Raiders as beatable, but. You lumped them in there, though. Admittedly lumping those two together. Yeah. And also, the Patriots did lose home field a couple years ago in Miami. So maybe, maybe Belichick is washed is the point we're all trying to make here. That's what Norris saying. washed when they have to play the

Colts should go get Marcus Marriota by the way. That's my take on the Colts quarterback situation. Oh, perfect quarterback for that offense. What does that mean? Like, it's like a West Coast offense and like they run a lot of option plays and RPO's like that's his game. He's not going to throw the ball

away. Okay. All right. I mean, I just I guess that's okay. That's an okay option. I really don't know where else to go with this. And I think that the Colts need to do a pretty deep look at their entire organization right now and figure out what exactly went wrong because the problem is and and kind of going back to the athletic piece I was talking about earlier

like they have a lot of stars that Chris Ballard has drafted really really well and they come out and play this poorly shows that something in that chain is broken you can't have that many good players and play this poorly against a crappy team that their coach got fired for kicking a kicker and they're in disarray and they kept Trent Balky on and their fans who were in clown wigs and they're an open revolt and Dan Quinn, Dan Quinn won't even interview for the head coaching job because he doesn't want to be anywhere near this. And you're going to lose to that team. Something, something is broken.

Something is broken. Shout out to the Jags for still having the number one pick. Is that true? Is the Lions? Yeah. Lions couldn't get it. Wow. Great day for the Jags.

Niners 27, Rams 24. This would be the number one game that we talked about in any other week, but not today. So this is from ESPN, the 9th. Niners came back from 17 down to clinch a playoff berth. That ties the largest comeback in a season finale ever to clinch a playoff birth. The 1993 Raiders also did it against the Broncos. This was a strange game. Jim McGroplo was averaged up the target, according to PFF,

was a yard longer than it normally is. He had a hand injury all week or a thumb injury all week that everybody thought would keep him out of the game. It didn't. Stephen Ruiz. What did you think? I was very impressed by Jimmy on the two last drives. Before that, it was kind of weird seeing a team try to come back with their playoff lives on the line by, like, running the ball. Every snap, I've never seen a comeback like that.

But you have to give Jimmy credit. And I criticize him a lot. But that one throw to Debo Samuel where Ramsey, like, dove and almost got a piece of the ball, that was one of the better plays I've ever seen him make. And I frankly did not think he had it in him. He usually panics in that situation. For him to find, like, a second option, really good play by Jimmy. And then in overtime, I mean, I thought he continued to play well. He was making tough throws over the middle into tight windows.

That's what you want to see Jimmy Garoppolo doing. I really think this team, and I'm taking a step ahead, I think they could beat the Cowboys, quite frankly, based on how that offense has looked when they're not playing against backups in Washington. Wow. Nora? Yeah, well, it's hysterical because this sort of seems. seemed like the moment when Kyle Shannon was kind of like, all right, I have to accept that the life I've chosen

is living and dying by Jimmy Garablo and screw it. And the weird thing is But weirdly, but also weirdly, weirdly, he didn't, she tried to opt out of that life and didn't work. And now he's back in it. Right. And now he's just like accepting it. And also because like the thumb injury, it's like what we went through with Russell Wilson earlier in the season.

He can't really like play under center because of his thumb. so he kind of has to just like throw the ball. And it's hysterical. I just love the idea that Calshanan is like caught in this like monster of his own creation that's actually kind of good. And clearly like Jimmy was pretty bad early in the game. But then he just, he made some really good throws. And he actually made some explosive plays.

And Debo Samuel is amazing. And probably is going to throw more passes than Traylands in the playoffs. And that's the life that we're living. Hmm. Okay. So I want to talk about this, this Cowboys game here, Nora. Do you agree with Steven's take? Uh, huh, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Do I agree that they, Stephen, restate your take? Was it like they can win? Yeah, I'm picking the Cowboys. It's not, that's not going to, like, shock me. But I think the Cowboys are, are, have returned to being on one. Is Debio Samuel the best player in football? Like, what is going on? on where they can do everything.

I think that that, like, there might be, like, legitimate argument for that, other than Aaron Donald. I saw someone on Twitter suggest that we should give Debo the Heisman, and I agree with that. Like, give him the Heisman. But current, like, instead of Bryce Young? Yeah, take it away from Bryce Young.

Give it to, or give him, like, Reggie Bush's Heisman. Why don't we give Reggie Bush's husband back? There's got to be, like, a loose Heisman out there. I think OJ's is for sale somewhere in the, in the ether. Let's complain about Matthew Stafford here for a second. So both of his interceptions were on deep passes.

He was under pressure all day long. And the San Francisco D line is nasty. And I don't think that we should really, you know, criticize him on every single throw because, first of all, he played well from the stretches of the game. But second of all, he was under fire. But are you worried, Stephen, about this Rams team going into the playoffs? Yes, but not because of Matthew Stafford and how he's playing.

I thought the interceptions, I don't think they were that bad. He said after the game, he just under threw the one in overtime, and I agree with that. It wasn't a bad decision, and then the first one came on third and 17. I actually do. I think that was just an awful pass. And by the way, I believe he and Trevor Lawrence are tied in the NFL for interceptions this year. I think they both have 17. Matthew Stafford occasionally does that.

Yeah, but I just, we're going into playoffs here. he's throwing some real bad passes. I don't think you can chalk it up to that. It's not bad. It's just a pattern of him making crappy throws. But those are hard throws. He's throwing 50 yards of the air and he misses by like two yards. I'm not going to say the sky is falling. As long as he's not throwing the dumb interceptions he threw the week before when he's throwing pick six, pick six is right to Ravens defenders. Like I can live with third and 17 arm punts in the playoffs.

And I think the Rams can too. Well, they was in overtime. One day was an overtime today. That wasn't an arm punt. That was just an overtime. interception. Right. You don't want to do that.

No, the first one was an arm. But yeah, the second one, I just thought he understood the past. I mean, all interceptions aren't like that bad. As long as you're not throwing into double coverage over the middle of the field, I'm fine if you're leaving a 50 yard. Yeah, I mean, he's capable of doing that. Yeah. We've seen it a lot.

I'm not worried about Matthew Stavre. Solex's text take is that the Rams cannot be trusted in a playoffs too hot and cold, more than just Dafford, defense has lulls and swells. Do you agree with that, Nora? Yeah. I mean, I think that's backed up by the 2021 NFL season. Right. But if they have a swell during the 2022 playoffs, then things might work out.

Here's my thing. Like, what team can you not say that about this season? Right. I mean, probably the Packers. Yeah. Who had one lull at the beginning of the season. Right. And week one and then just kept it moving.

Yeah. And like are now getting all their best players besides the quarterback. back. The Packers are the only trustworthy team. Well, okay, but here's the question now. What do we think

about the Monday night matchup with the Cardinals? Because that's another loyal team. There's another swell and loyal team. I feel decent about the Rams.

I mean, at this point, I'm like, I've given up all hope on the Cardinals. I mean, I don't know how you can't. Are they in

washed watch? Are they not even on washed watch? They're just washed. No, they've been canceled. Forget being washed. I have definitely not been canceled.

They're a playoff team. For now. You can't cancel an active playoff team. Have you canceled the Titans? I'm canceling the Steelers too. I'll cancel half the playoff field if you let me. So we had a planning call. We had a planning call.

Just so the listener knows, we argue about the Titans off the air as well. We had a planning call where we argued so thoroughly. And my new take is that Stephen and Ben are anti-science because they don't respect wins. I trust the science. I trust the experts and the Titans are the number one seed.

And we came to the conclusion that we know we've graduated from quarterbacks or not a quarterback wins are not a stat to team wins are no longer a stat. That's what you guys believe. Results don't matter. You guys just love your... I'm staying out of this. It's all about process.

You guys, you love your off-season process. I would very much like to be excluded from the strenfaces. You love podcast appearances where guys explain the process. You love that stuff. Kevin, you just wrote a whole article talking about how more teams should hire like accountants to be GMs. Those guys are on our on our side. No, I mean, it's not specifically analytics. It's a great big world out there.

You don't need to just, Dave Gettleman is not to be replaced by the Giants number two, Kevin Abrams. Did you guys see by the, Michael Strayhan is not like, he's not going to be one to call out the Giants in any like vicious way. but someone on the pregame show said that they might promote Kevin Abrams who's been with the Giants for years and Strahan just started screaming no like what

what's going on to the organization? Everything's out of control. Take away the Jaguars. The Giants are the worst run team in the league right now, right? You take the Jaguars out. Like part of the problem with the Giants is we are not sure if they will have a head coaching

opening. But let's say they did. If you're a hot candidate, which call are you happy or do? I mean, I guess the GM situation is maybe a questionable thing for Jacksonville, but I think you're like really thinking long and hard about the funny thing about like the Giants brain trust. Like the three most important positions in an NFL team are the head coach, the GM and the quarterback. And like Daniel Jones is the most competent of those three. And he's like the most memeable quarterback in the NFL. But that's the guy you have.

The Giants have botched three straight coaching hires, which is a sign that something is broken. As the University of Miami fan, where they botched four straight coaching hires, I can definitively tell you that when that happens, something is wrong with the process and is wrong with the wrong with people making

decisions. That's all I can. But the problem is when a team botches three straight coaching hires, then they hang on to the last mistake. coaching hire for way too long because they're embarrassed about having cycled through so many people so quickly. And then the cycle perpetuates. Also, Miami has botched five straight coaching hires.

You just don't realize it yet. I also can't wait for the ring or NFL show to have like five more head coaches on this off season where I asked everybody about their process. We just get, and we get Brandon Staley on and we get all your darlings. Frank Reich. We're going to get them on. We're just going to ask about process. By the way, I make fun of the process.

stuff. That's all we're not loving people in here. We're not firing Frank Reich. No, we're keeping Frank Reich. We're also just going to book them on a podcast. Great, great. I'm so on board with this. It's going to be great. All I do is call up GMs and ask for process, but I do it in print, so it's fine. All right, let's move on to Steelers Ravens.

Steelers 16, Ravens 13. This was basically a perfect Ben Rothesberger game. The fourth down, they could throw to Ray Ray Ray McLeod. didn't even look like a football play. It didn't even look like they had called it a play. It looked like it was just kind of Ben,

just doing his things like hologram Ben Ralthusberger out there. Wow. This was, this was exactly the way the steward's had to get to the playoffs. What did you think, Nora? I don't want to participate in this. You're done? You're done with the steward's talk?

I will say this, is that we should have figured out, like Ben Rathesberger, when he's hurt, he just pops up and he somehow throws like three more touchdown passes, all of this stuff, right? Like this, the only time he enlocks his true power is when he just hits rock bottom and just kind of gets, you know, as I've talked about before, the dead cat bounce. We should have seen how much power he was going to get from literally retiring. Like that, that is the ultimate Ben Rathesberger.

And you know what? Now he's kind of be like, hey, I might have, might have some more time in me. I don't know. I don't know. If Ben Rathesbringer does not retire, it will be the funniest thing that is never having professional sports. He hasn't officially retired. He just said he thought it was going to be his last game in Heinz Field. He still got it, baby.

They could move. They could, they could pull a Colts. Like, technically, that last, that last scoring drive in overtime was, like, similar to the Chargers' last drive and regulation. But it was, like, a far less extreme version. It was the worst, it was the worst possible. Right. If you would just take in the Chargers where it's just, like, barely getting the first down, making every play. only when you have to.

It was that, except it was the least aesthetically pleasing thing I've ever seen. It got the job done, but it was the exact opposite as far as watchability. Could they loan Justin Herbert to Pittsburgh? You don't want that.

You don't want to see that. This team is built for Ben Rathesburg or following down for a four-yard gain, okay? I'm in on one last ride for Big Ben. Stephen, what did you think about this game? So the 21 of Ben's completions were between zero and nine yards. We kind of know what game he's going to play now. Firmuth had nine targets today, 53 yards, caught six balls.

Like we kind of know what this looks like right now. You said they were canceled earlier, but what do you think of them today? I mean, I think the defense still has that A game. I mean, Tyler Huntley probably had a lot to do with it today. But I don't, why are we even talking about the Steelers? They're playing the Chiefs next week. Well, they won, they made the playoffs. They're in the NFL playoffs.

But I, I, too, what it did. I'm sorry. We're going back to the wins or not a team stat thing here. Like, they made the playoffs. This is the best argument against wins, not matter. The Steelers have made the playoffs two years in a row. And they're going to get blown out in the wildcar round for a second straight year. Like, who wants this?

Can we, they should bow out gracefully and allow the chargers to take their spot. They should decline like a, like a college board. Virtual suicide. Opt out. I think this is this is massive disrespect to the Steelers to Steelers culture one thing I'll say and maybe I haven't noticed maybe because they're just not online the Steelers have you know how the Miami Heat fans do the heat culture thing and they just say everything is because of culture the the Steelers have a legitimate argument and path to do that and they don't and I think that's admirable but they can just talk about Steelers culture all the time because they really do have something Mike Tomlin is 154 and 85 and like Mike Tomlin is amazing Mike Tomlin is amazing. Kevin Colbert, who by the way, sounds like he's retiring.

He's amazing. Like, they just figure things out every single year. And that's why I'm actually, I'm more respectful of the fact that they make the playoffs every year. So it is better than a bunch of other teams who don't make the playoffs. We spent the entire off season, an entire season talking about Frank. Going back to it, we're talking about Brandon Steele. How much, if you were to just compare how much we talked about Brandon Staley and Justin Herbert on this podcast versus how much we talked about the Steelers, it would probably be ludicrous. Same with Frank Reich and Carson Wentz and Chris Bauer and all those guys.

We talk about them. We think they're the shiny new thing. And then Mike Tomlin coaches them up. Ben Rothesberger throws a four yard out to Deontay Johnson, limps towards everything. Like, I just, you know, he looks ridiculous in his face mask and then he wins. Like, sorry. Yeah, everyone's completely agree with you. It's just that the other side of the same coin that you are so wonderfully spelling out is that nobody wants to watch this quarterback.

throw 44 times in a game right now. Oh, guess it could have solved that problem? The teams we mentioned who kept losing. Put it on them. A lot of people say that Belichick should win Coach of the Year every year, but I think Tomlin should win it every year. Yeah. Oh, that man is owed like six. Right.

Has he ever won it? Retroactive Coach of the Year awards. Well, he should win for balancing out the Antonio Brown Levy on Bell been Rathesburger years. Mika, they've got, I mean, they didn't have a ton of success there relative to the talent, but man, we didn't hear a lot of stories about those guys. They won nine games with Duck Hodges and Mason Rudolph. Who's a good coach?

And he goes, he went on flying coach. He's also a podcaster. How do you feel about that, Ruiz? Is he under respect now? He's no staley. Was Michael Schran actually upset because T.J. Watt tied his sack record? What, let's go through this. So he had a

He got it, but then he didn't get it, but then he did get it. Yeah, they took it away. Right. But then he just got another sack. Right. So he tied it. Yeah. How do you guys feel with the 17 game record thing?

I don't care. Because we didn't do this with 14 games. I don't care anything. So here's the thing. I like do kind of care because it's just, it's just incorrect. Like doing the accomplishing X in more games is less impressive than doing so in

X minus one games. At the same time, players get injured. We have to deal with that. Not everybody plays the same amount of games every season. Also, there is no alternative. There are 17 games now,

and we're just going to have to carry on. So in like three years, no one's going to pay attention. But I do, like, it's, the math is wrong. I don't recognize any records before 2000 anyway.

Like, I don't, like, cornerbacks are running like four, eight, 40s. Like Deacon Jones Probably has the sack record

But he was like going up against tackles That were built like me Right So I don't care Is there a record You're just like This is a legitimate record Is there a record you really care about?

In football no Yeah Not at all Like I said records don't matter I like Dan Marino's 1984 Because I was untouchable for a while Yeah

I think it's still in the top 10 It's kind of an enduring power of that year, but anything else, it's fine. Oh, yeah. Dan Marino is the only season before 2000 that should count and that we should respect. Dan Marino in 1984, was it his second year in the league when he threw 48 touchdowns or whatever? Amazing. He belongs, but everyone else. I think we need a disclaimer on this podcast. Do we do some Marino talk? Just that some things were said. Marino is amazing. That's not a hot take.

That's true. Speaking of the dolphins, let's move on to the dolphins beating the Patriots. So Brian Flores owns Bill Belichick. He's four and two against Bill Belichick. Is the best record of any coach in the Belichick era going against Patriots? You know both of these men. Why does Flores own Bill Belichick? So the best answer I have for that is that he and to an extent Mike Rable just don't really care.

Like there's never been a moment where I've perceived in either one of those guys. Do you count Mike Rable in the tree? I don't not really in the co. Actually, yeah. I kind of do. Okay. Because everybody just like Bill is a big influence on people. But I do think that one, and this is not his fault at all, there is a track record where guys who work with him for a long time, like it gets in their heads and they try to be like Bill and no one can do that. And it's bad. I do think that the thread between Vrabel and Flores is actually twofold. One, I don't think that either one of those guys is trying to be anybody but themselves. The other one is that they were good.

communicators. One thing that tied together to prior Belichick assistants who coached the New York Giants and at one point coached the Detroit Lions before they went there is that they were not great public communicators. And that was something that I tried to be very sort of skeptical about mattering before they took those jobs because it really doesn't matter that much if the media likes you. and that's the type of thing that people can really, really overreact to is like, oh, that guy said my name all the time in press conferences.

He must be so great. But with Flores, and I didn't interact with Rabel as much because he was before my time. But particularly with Flores, he's just like very good with people. And if you interact with someone enough, you kind of get a sense of if they're good with people or not. And I think we should acknowledge that that matters. Why the Patriots lose every time they have to play in Southern Florida, I don't really know. I genuinely think they might think that it has to do with the heat.

I believe there were some reports that they were trying to use their practice facility and crank up the heat when they were practicing for this game. They've lost some weird games like in Jacksonville too at various points in the last few years. So I wonder if that might have something to do with it. but it's pretty inexplicable. It's weird. They've lost a lot of games down there. Are you worried, Stephen, about the Patriots?

I'm not worried just because I haven't had much faith in this team all season long. I mean, the three of the last four games that have mattered, they haven't been competitive, or they haven't been very competitive. I guess you can say they were competitive in the Bill's game. It was close until the fourth quarter. But, oh, man, I think Mack, whether he hit a wall or maybe, Teams just got film on him, but he's just not playing well right now. Like even today, he wasn't playing well.

And I don't know how you win in the playoffs against the quarterbacks that are in that conference, like Burrow, Allen, Mahomes. I just don't see it. Even like Tanna Hill, I don't know if they can, if he can go throw for throw. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Guess he's on the bandwagon. Wait, I have a question.

We were talking about the Colts a few weeks ago and said, the Colts seem like they're the team that people thought the Patriots were. The Colts now no longer seem to be that team. Which team is the team we thought the Colts were, which was actually the team we thought the Patriots were. It's the Titans. It's the Chiefs.

It's also the Niners. The Chiefs are the team nobody wants to play. Well, that's true, but that was always true. Yeah. I think that's a little bit of a different thing. I think it was like the, okay, the quarterback's not so flashy, but they can win in a bunch of different ways, and they're more trustworthy and they seem like they should be.

I kind of think it's the Titans. It's, um, maybe. Or it's the Niners. If we're switching Carmen, it's the 49ers. It's the Niners. Yeah, it's a Niners. So Mac Jones has not had, so in his last five games, leaving out the Jacksonville game. So Mac Jones has had, has not had more touchdowns interceptions than four of his last five,

and the five was the aforementioned 50 to 10 Jacksonal game. I agree, Stephen, I think hitting the rookie wall can be overrated only in, but I do think there's some validity to it in the sense of the length of the season. You've never done anything close to it. And now that's only going to be heightened because it's 18 weeks instead of 17 weeks, and you're already, you're playing a 14 week. You know, I understand that when you play at Alabama, you're playing that's a championship game, that's longer, but it's not like you're practicing every single day for that long.

there's a break there. You basically get a month off between the SEC championship game and the national championship game. So it's a little different of a college experience in most quarterbacks, but it's still, it's not analogous to an NFL season. As close as a Sabin is to Belichick's practice, it's not going to be the same. It's going to be a grind. So I think there's probably some of that, but I also think that they'll be able to refocus

in the next week or so. And I don't, I don't have a ton of confidence in this team, but I do think they can, they can, they can beat the bills. Oh, you think they can beat the bills? I mean, I think they can beat the bills. I wouldn't necessarily pick the bills. I'm sorry, if there's 50 miles per hour win, I think they can beat the bills.

But that game, that second game, I don't think it would just look like two different sports the quarterbacks were playing. And unless Josh Allen, who hasn't been playing well for the last two weeks, to be fair, but unless Josh Allen has like a Carson Wentz level meltdown, I don't know. It's going to be hard. It's going to be hard. I also, I mean, Alan is not

not riding like an immense hot streak, but they've started running him more. A lot of the Patriots defenders who were, some of the guys in that secondary can still be pretty nasty, but like Judon has not had his best games, the last couple of games. Christian Barmore got hurt in this game. I'm worried about the stress of a Josh Allen

who's figured out that he should run around a bunch against that defense at this point. I don't think that's like a nice matchup for them at all. I lean bills. Belichick has historically had problems against mobile quarterbacks, especially of late in a modern NFL when teams have realized how to use those mobile quarterbacks. So that, like if they played the Bengals,

I think they would have had a chance to win. I probably would have picked them. But the bills, I just think were the worst matchup outside of the Chiefs, obviously. So we've talked to, about every single playoff game except Eagles bucks. So let's just get to that quickly. Any strong, any thoughts on the Eagles as a potential spoiler or is it kind of over?

I think the Eagles might be able to keep it close. Like in the same way that Washington did last year against the bucks in the wildcard game, this bucks run defense isn't what it used to be, especially with Levante David out. And this is an offense that puts a lot of pressure on your linebackers and forces them to be disciplined. And Devin White is not a disciplined linebacker at all. He flies around the ball and makes. takes plays, but discipline is not his thing in that run defense has fallen off a cliff since David went out. So I think the Eagles do have a chance. Or anything? Yeah, I mean, also just like,

it seems like Tampa continues to get more and more hurt like last week's Cyril Grayson is now banked up. So I don't know what you're going to do. If you don't have Cyril. Is there any, are you guys, if you had to put one team on upset watch next week, who would you pick? Like if you're to bet, we're betting. We're betting your money. I know I said I would kick them, but I think, kick them. Pick them. It's late.

But I think the Cowboys. Yeah, I'm going Cowboys. Cowboys an upset alert. I kind of like that. All right, guys. Who are you putting on upset alert, Kevin? The bills. Even though that's kind of a cop out because it's not even that, like the seating isn't even.

I mean, the Patriots beat the bills earlier this year. They split the season series. So it's not, it's not crazy. I would not be I wouldn't be shocked I wouldn't be shocked by Cardinals over Rams as well I think Stafford's making some real weird plays over the past two months

and I just think that that can happen twice in a playoff game and then the entire the entire thing changes doesn't need to happen a lot I know Stephen doesn't think interceptions matter because they're downfield nothing matters process over results

process over results I know that wins are not a team stat But ties are. No, Stephen is now, his camp is now, quarterback stats are not a quarterback stat. No,

oh, I've been there for years. That's what we've graduated to. Quarterback stats are a team staff. Quarterback wins are fake. Wins are fake. That's actually kind of true. Quarterback stats are not quarterback stats.

Nothing matters. Chaos. So we'll be back on Saturday, us three. Me, Nora and Stephen, we'll be back on Saturday to break down, Half of those playoff games, Ben will join Nora and I next Sunday to break down those games. Next up on this feed on Tuesday is Jason, Golf, James Jones, Ranch is here with the Tuesday Players Pod.

Nora and I will be here on Wednesday joining forces with Mallory. For a Wednesday show, it'll be really, really cool. Stevens back on Friday with Ben and Kalin, a preview wildcard weekend. I'll have a slow news day out later this week. Don't know who's on it. Haven't really asked anybody. I'm traveling, but I'm sure it will be great. Thank you to Nora and Stephen.

Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for his production help on this episode with additional production supervision by Arjuna Ramkevold. Has been the Ringer-Ren-FEL show on the Ringer Podcast Network.