The Ringer NFL Show - Week 4 Recap: The Bills Comeback to Beat the Ravens, the Eagles Remain Undefeated, the Chiefs Offense Explodes | The Ringer NFL Recap Show

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

Nora, Steven, and Ben start by recapping the Bills' comeback win on the road over the Ravens. They discuss the quarterback battle between Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, controversial coaching decisions from John Harbaugh, and more (1:17). Then, Nora and Steven go through their winners and losers from the week, which included the Eagles, Chiefs, Falcons, Steelers, and more (18:03). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Guest: Ben Solak Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, my name is Kevin Clark. I'm the host of a new football podcast called Slow Newsday. I want to tell you about it. On Mondays, Lindsay Jones and I will recap the weekend in football that was, as well as look ahead to what's next. On Wednesday, the normal Slow Newsday, the thing you've been watching for years, current players, current coaches, current analysts talking about the football world. And on Friday, it's a wild card.

Could be some college football. Could be more pro stuff. It's a video podcast so you can watch it on Spotify or listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. Follow on Spotify. It's Slow Newsday. of the bringer NFL recap show week four Sunday is in the books I am nor prunziotti I am here with the dream team starting with stephen Ruiz uh your boy gino balled out Trevor Lawrence didn't quite like what what emotional state are you bringing to this

pod okay we're we're blaming Trevor on the rain and we're we're starting the gno smith MVP discourse right now okay good to start it just needed needed to get our messaging straight on that needed to get our story straight right from the top uh for the headline portion. As always, we've got Benjamin Sillac, Eagles 4-0. You feeling good? Go birds. So we are going to start with the game that I think we all had previewed as kind of a

winning team's quarterback might be in the driver's seat for MVP sort of situation, which is Bill's Ravens. The bills won 23 to 20 after mounting a substantial second half comeback. We can check in on the MVP

P race implications if there are any in this conversation. It was a little bit weird because Lamar kind of had it going on the first half. Josh Allen took over in the second half. But Ben, what did you learn about either team from this game? I still like my main takeaway is the Ravens are two and two. But if your two losses are a historical comeback, 28 points in the fourth quarter by the Dolphins, and then another historical comeback, 17 point comeback by the bills. They were 0.38 in their last 38 games or whatever it was losing by 17 points.

You're probably still a pretty good team. Like there's a lot of how big is the panic button in Baltimore. And I understand why it feels that way because they were in the driver's seat of both of their losses and then loss for varyingly knuckleheadish reasons on those two games. And that plus some of the calcification of the offense late, which Stephen wrote about last week and it was like a really big part of Lamar Greg Roman discourse plus John Harbaugh analytics. Oh no, he went for another touchdown. There's like there's a lot of reasons that seem like they could muster consternation. Like, oh, things are bad in Baltimore.

And then you get down a brass tachsh and the team's actually played really well for four weeks. The rest of the AFC North is two and two at best. Like I walk away from this game being like the Ravens should be at least three and one. They very well could be four and oh. It's kind of irritating that they're not. But I'm really not overall concerned with the team, not any more than I was coming into this game. Why don't we talk about the Harbaugh decision to go for it on fourth and two now so that we can get out of the way and talk about everything else. I had no issue with it. He decides to go. It's

fourth and two from the two. There's four minutes and 15 seconds left. They could have kicked, but they go for it. Lamar gets picked in the end zone. And then Josh Allen pretty quickly marches the bills into field goal range and they get the game winning field goal. And that's it. And afterwards, Harbaugh says, yeah, sure, hindsight, maybe you take the points, but analytically, we felt like it was the best choice. I think most of the models, to varying degrees, think it was a borderline go or actually kind of an obvious go. At that point, you've seen Josh Allen take this bill's offense on drives where he just, he's

responsible for like 90% of the yards. it's he just he just moves them so i have no problem with it just because i think you look at the circumstances of how that's that second half had played out and even beyond it's sounding like the math worked out pretty purely where going for it was the right call even if it was pretty close you look at how that game is going and think i don't know that a field goal is necessarily going to be enough here but that stephen did you feel similarly or differently or what was your analysis of the last decision. Yeah, like at that point in the day,

and this was a couple of hours before Patrick Mahomes just did what he did, I was saying that Lamar looked like the best player in football. When you have the best player in football and you're what, four yards out, you keep them on the field, especially when maybe the third best player in football is on the other sideline

and has been marching up and down the field all the second half. I wouldn't have trusted that defense. They've given you no reason to trust them in a big spot all season long. put the ball in Lamar's hands. Yeah, the biggest coaching mistake made within five yards of the goal line on that drive by John Harbock was allowing for a second and goal handoff to J.K. Dobbins with no option attached

to it, which like in general, for 31 of 32 teams, maybe like 30 with like the Eagles and Jaylen Hertz, just hand the ball off inside the two. Stop doing silly things. Stop trying pitches. Stop trying shovel. Stop trying to flash it. Just give the ball to a running back. But for Lamar and maybe only Lamar.

Second of goal from the one. just go with shotgun. Like, just do it. Nobody else should do this, but you should. And that handoff to J.K. Dobbins ends up at TFL. The bills in the entire second quarter, or excuse me, second half, we're doing a wonderful job getting penetration in the running game. They're doing an excellent job shooting gaps. They're dialing up run blitz and they were getting tackles near our Adeline scrimmage. That second goal handoff of J.K. Dobbins, again, hindsight 20-20. Everybody criticizes the fourth down interception. I criticize the second down play goal. We all have the clarity of what happened. But that puts you then in a third and five, which then puts you in your dropback

passing game, which is the worst place for the Ravens offense to be. You wanted to be all runs, all the ball in Lamar hand for three straight downs. That to me is the bigger sin. That fourth and goal call also, Devinané is open. Yes. And Lamar should throw that ball. Why he doesn't is interesting, so he's trusted Duvonnei in the red zone so far this season. It's not like a don't know him thing. I do wonder if seven's running that round, not 13. If Breschabay, it's in the game and that's Bateman dialed up. That concept is for that Duberne route to open. That's why it's called that way.

And I don't know why Lamar can throw it. I do wonder if Bateman's there, he just trusts him and rips it. But Duvone was also open. So some blame for Harbaugh in terms of how they managed the situation. Also some blame for Lamar. Fourth and goal, calling a flag route to back pylon, grip it, rip it. Ball's got to be out. The Bateman situation was a little curious.

They didn't get much going with him in general. I think he had three catches on six targets, 17 yards. He dropped that pass on third down with seven minutes left in the third quarter and then left the game just did not really reappear. It was not clear what became of him. It's like dropped an important third down pass in 30 mile per hour wins with substantial rain. Like I kind of get like, hey, don't drop it. Let's take a week off. Well, also, let's not pretend that the Ravens aren't accustomed to some drops by by their wide.

receivers. The, the, the, the, the, M.O of this coaching staff and offense has not been like, you drop one pass one time and you are, you are gone. Yes. If we penalized drops with benchings, Mark Andrews would play a quarter and a half every single Sunday. Right. Like, this is just not, it's not how they operate. That's not, that's not holding water. And then Harmo was kind of weird about it afterwards. He was like, I don't know what happened with that. It's like, well, you're the coach, man. Might have been good to have that guy on the field. Um, Stephen, you've, you've written about this, this Ravens offense. I think Ben is right to bring up how the Bill's defense was getting a lot of penetration, particularly those linebackers, Milano and Edmonds were, I thought, sort of balling out towards the end of the game. But what did you see happen when they quieted down in the second half? Yeah, I think it was just another instance of Lamar having no margin for error. Like everything they created in that first half was Lamar scrambling, buying time, just making a good throw in rhythm or it was predicated on his threat in the run game in the option run game. They need something else.

They need like a dropback passing game. Like Ben said, that's the worst place for them to be. And then you saw how fragile this receiving core is. When Bateman goes out, the passing game just tanked. Lamar was like something like 0.7 EPA per dropback after Bateman went out. Go get Odell Beckham, please. I feel like he's getting recruited like a college prospect. bring him in for a visit.

He's like taking a tour of the NFL. I don't know. I don't see how the Ravens can go into the second half of this season without like a real number two. And I like Devin Duvernay and he's been good this season, but I don't think that's what he is. The problem is that what Duverne is good at appeals to Greg Roman's worst tendencies. It's a great like yards after catch guys. They dial a bunch of screens. And you're like, no, we don't like this.

Get a guy who runs a route. get a guy who wins over the middle of the field. Get a guy who can do a thing. Duvone just is just like, ah, it's a kick returner. That's a legit motion. Like, no, you need to be real. It's so funny.

Some of these play calls, they'll call like under center play action. They'll have seven into protect and then they'll run like two seven yard hitches. It's amazing. Like, what are they, like, what is the theory behind that? Lamar had an A dot of 4.5 in this game,

which was a little bit credit to the bill's defense. They definitely were like, we are not going to let this team get vertical on us. but also you should never, ever, ever, ever, ever allow that. Yeah. With a passer like Lamar, in terms of the way he stresses the defense horizontally, and like the running game was working. They're running like this like draw stuff and they're running insert stuff with Patrick

Ricard. Like the running game was generating stress for a lot of the game. Bill started to get on it in the second half like seven penetration, but it was working for the first half and you were stressing out the defensive force and bring guys into the box. The fact that you couldn't get anything vertical working off of that is such a indictment on the receiving talent and the play caller. Yeah.

It's so funny that the only play that like consistently worked was that pump draw. He would like Lamar would do like a pump fake, then hand off the drawl. And it would go for like 15 yards every play. And then Roman just kept calling it and it kept working. He was like like a 14 year old Madden player who just found a good play that worked. And he just spams it over and over again. The 14 year old madame player designation belongs exclusively to Cliff Kingsbury.

It may not be used for any other offensive play. No, no, no. That's an insults of 14-year-olds playing Madden. They are much more creative than that. Trust me. The 14-year-old Madden player badge has been revoked. As someone who plays a lot of 14-year-olds online in Madden, they are much better than him. Cliff had the 14-year-old Madden player badge, but then he was told that he needed to do his homework for four hours.

It was revoked. Sorry, I hate to hear it. I'm on board with Team Get Odell to the Ravens. I do think I'm with you that a more exciting number two receiver, let's say, in this offense would be a good thing. I still think they've got to find a way to get more than they did in this game out of the combination of Bateman and Andrews, right? Like if those guys are combining for 32 yards,

Andrews's two catches on five targets for 15, that's not going to be a good day, right? And that Buffalo defense under McDermott has always been really good at covering tight ends. But still, I just, Lamar is so special that it's like the only situation where that stuff could happen and you can still foresee kind of a path for them. I just don't know how many games against good teams they're going to be able to win if they get so little out of those guys. And I just am, I refuse to accept that they can't get more out of those players. They may not be, you know, everything that you possibly want, but those are good players.

They should be able to do more than that. And the funny thing is, like, I would also stand here and say that the Ravens' offensive play calling, design, plus also the way they've filled out of the skill positions doesn't even get the most out of Lamar. And we're here with this season right now from Lamar. And it's still like, right, the constant frustration with the Greg Roman, Lamar Jackson, Ravens, of course, the last few years is like, okay, you guys developed a good QB running game sick.

anybody could have done that with Lamar Jackson. It's frickin Lamar. Please do something else. And they just continue to leave me on that bone. Because it's a secret. They continue to leave meat on that bone. And that's the irritating thing. And so we're here again with the Ravens who are two and two who like, oh, they have

offensive line injuries. They have running back injuries. Wow, that's familiar. That's familiar. Same issues. And the same meat is on the bone offensively. Again, like, as I brought up, I still think they're a good team. It's something like the moment eight walks on at the field, they're probably going to

beat the other team because he's there. but it's irritating. All right. Let's do cheesy talk radio MVP stuff for like 45 seconds. Can we do voices? I don't have a voice ready, but you can do a voice. What kind of voices? Mostly I want to hear you try to do the voice.

I don't think I have. I don't have that in my bag. I don't have like W.E.I. guy in my vocal toolkit. That's just not something I can access. I'm very sorry. If I ever take like an improv class or something, that's what I will ask. I'll say, hey, I have a very specific thing I want to learn.

My feeling is that this is actually the fact that this ended 23 to 20 and that it was kind of a weird game and kind of split where the bills were down big in the first half. I don't think people are going to be talking about this game when we're talking about the MVP race at the end of the season. No. I think this is like one of the only ways this could have gone where it just, this game just sort of is going to get erased from that conversation. So that's at least a silver lining for Lamar, although I'm sure he doesn't really care. It happened. We're talking about Seahawks Lions. Oh, yeah.

If we're talking to, we have to, don't we? Thank you, Stephen. The two best quarterbacks in the NFL right now. Jared golf's up there, too. That's true. That's true. We won't be talking about this game because we won't be talking about either of those quarterbacks. Ben, we're going to let you go.

But first, I want you to tell all the people what is written on the whiteboard that's behind your head right now. Oh, the whiteboard keeps track of the Eagles record. Apparently it says Eagles 4 and O and then also keeps track of Eagles vibes. And it currently says vibes, where will the banner go? It's a big question. You get a second banner now to go with your other Super Bowl banner. Kind of what's the best way to organize these, right?

How do we want to set everything up? Do we have enough room at the banner area of the link? That's the main question. When I covered the Patriots, there was a year where they had to do, they had to like remake part of the banner. sound, yeah, so that they could add space for a new banner. We can't let Ben pretend to be happy about the Eagles being for, no. He lost the, he lost some money on that game today.

The whiteboard after the Bikers, after the Vikings' football game, read Vibes, Arizona. At that point, I was already planning a trip to Phoenix for the Super Bowl, okay? I'm a Philadelphia fan. After they went on Sunday, Super Bowl, by the Friday before the next game, we might lose every single game. That's just the roller coaster that you've got. Okay. This is a good disclaimer for your.

content. Yes, please listen and download the ringers really special with Ben Solacinio Chiawana talking to all things Eagles football, baby, two times a week. Very good. Great stuff. Thank you so much, Ben. Um, lovely to speak with you as always. I'm sure we will talk to you next Sunday, if not sooner. Gobert. End the NFL week on Monday night with Fandul, America's number one sports book. And one of my favorite things about Fandul is picking my favorite props and building the same game parlay. Perfect for tonight's game. In the Rams 49ers, I have the Rams plus one and a half. I have Cooper Cup anytime touchdown score and I have Debo Samuel anytime touchdown score.

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Tennessee Redline. 1-800-889-9-9-8-2-2-4-7-00 in Kansas and Wyoming, or visit www.org.000-gambler.net in West Virginia. All right, let's get to winners and the losers. Stephen, when you hit me with your first winner? Yeah, my first winner is the Philadelphia Eagles. They beat the Jaguars 29 to 21 in a game where Trevor Lawrence just forgot. I forgot how to hold on to the ball.

Slippery Hans Lawrence. Does he need a new nickname? I think I need a new badge for the quarterback rankings after that game. Like one specifically for Lawrence. I'm not like opposed to you coming up with a new nickname for Trevor Lawrence that has to do with what just happened. But slippery hands Lawrence is terrible. That's not bad. That would be good.

This was like the 1950s. That's a good nickname. What about like Slick Mitz, Trev? Oh, that's so much better. Damn, you're so much better at that than me. That's better. I want, this is actually a really good time for me to ask to. I would like to moonlight as a headline writer for the preview show.

I'm just, this is my audition, all right? Why? Because we're so bad at it. Is my audition for writing headlines. I like it. I like it. You have the job. But we have a new rule at Trevor Lawrence Island.

No rain. No rain allowed. We need a climate where they're, because apparently it turns him into the worst quarterback ever. Beyond the fumbles. Like he missed a lot of throws. He missed some throws that would have changed the game. He had some inaccurate passes.

He took some bad sacks. It was just a bad game all around, man. And I have to blame it on the rain because he hasn't played anything like that. You know what this looked like last year? So apparently what it takes for the Jaguars to look like how they looked under urban mire, you just need torrential downpour. Has he played in the rain before? He must have.

I really wanted to, maybe we can do this or maybe one of our listeners will do this. I need to know how many games, how many difficult games, like, let's say college and beyond, Trevor Lawrence has played in significant reign. Because it seemed like he'd never experienced it before. And they were saying that he doesn't like on the broadcast that he doesn't like gloves, which sure, like a lot of quarterbacks don't like gloves. But I don't know. Four fumbles, you might want to consider doing something different.

It just, it's the type of thing where it's like, you're in. Florida, man. It rains like once a day. Hertz was wearing gloves and he did not fumble. Maybe Lawrence should take a lesson from that. But he did play a rain game. I think it was the ACC championship. And he averaged like four yards per attempt. It was a bad game.

Did he fumble? Oh, I don't know. I don't know. But he played poorly. So officially this is a thing that he can't handle the rain. But I... Twice. That's definitely a thing. I feel like this is that the Eagles are my winner.

And I feel like that because we saw the floor for this offense again. I think we're seeing that every week, that the floor is so high, even when it's pouring outside and the other, the other team can't even hold on to the ball. The Eagles will always have the run game to fall back on. And in the second half, that's what they did. Just play after play. They're running like zone read. Every play in the Jaguar, just couldn't cope. That offensive line is special.

And Jason Kelsey, he might have been the best player on the field on Sunday. He might have been the best player in the NFL, like, during the early game. games. He dominated that game. He was blocking like two Jaguars per play. I think this is just proof that maybe the Jaguars are a year way. I think we're seeing with Lawrence that he still has this type of game in him. And I mean, it makes sense. He's basically a rookie. Like he didn't have a real rookie year last year. We've covered that so much during the offseason. I feel like Doug sees this as a rookie year for Lawrence in the system. And then next year it's going to be the big, big breakout, but the team is just, there's a lot of young pieces, but I don't know if they're

ready for like prime time games yet. And we saw that today. There was a lot of mistakes all over the field on both sides of the ball. I don't. I, I, it's sort of impossible to watch four fumbles and a pick and, and how messy they were and not feel like that to some degree. Yeah. I honestly feel for the Jags like, I just don't think that's going to happen again. It's just such a, even just statistically it's a pretty anomalous result. But I think your point about what the Eagles floor is and how high that is

is really important, right? Because they have 210 rushing yards, average 4.2 yards per carry against this defense that one entered the game as the NFL's number one rushing defense and two is coordinated by Mike Caldwell who was with the bucks

when they, you know, totally shut down the Eagles in the playoffs. Right. And you just see them kind of get that monkey off their back. Obviously different situation. But how good this offensive line is, plus the fact that even in crappy conditions, you know, they've still got AJ Brown going for 95 yards. There's just so much more pressure in the passing game that this type of defense has to

account for that it made them, I think, much more successful being able to just run the ball. but the combination of the fact that this is like one of the few good offenses in the NFL that actually has an effective running game. And they have a really good offensive line, which is obviously a huge part of that. I am sure that we're going to be talking about that when we're talking about whatever they are doing at the end of the season in January, whatever. Like as much as they have improved by, you know, having Devonte Smith develop, getting AJ Brown, having that workout so well. and having improved their passing game in this way that's really real and significant in this bright, shiny thing. Like, this is still a team of big dudes who want to pound the football. And sometimes the context of a game, whether it's whether or just who the opponent is, kind of makes that more and more clear.

And I think it's a helpful reminder of just all the different tools they have. So I thought they were really impressive. Yeah. I don't know how long it will last. Like, I wonder if defenses start doing something different and they have trouble adjusting. But right now it feels like they're the most reliable, consistent offense in the league right now. Like, we saw the chiefs explode on Sunday night, but we just saw them last week's struggle against Gus Bradley. It's feeling like having that run game is, I don't know, like it means more now.

Just because we're seeing a lot of teams in too high. We're seeing light boxes. And it feels like it's going back the other way where having a run game really helps you out and helps you get explosives. The Eagles have so many options, like so many weapons to get explosives. They have like the screen game. They have the QB run game. They have A.J. Brown. They have the like the deep boss to Devante Smith.

I don't know like if this is the best offense in the NFL or if it has the highest ceiling. But for now it's the one offense that I trust every single week. Yeah. know if it necessarily has the highest high list ceiling. Like we're going to talk about the chiefs in a minute, but an offense that I trust to be able to win in a bunch of different ways. Like that, if they're not at the top of that list,

there's not that many teams ahead of them. And, you know, defensive coordinators are smarter than me and could come up with other adjustments. But it's just the fact that, you know, even just getting Brown in there, so much of when good defenses were able to give them issues last

season. It was because, okay, you don't have someone who can stress the middle of the field. And hurts at that point in his development wasn't as comfortable throwing to the outside. And the run game can't necessarily carry you to wins against good teams every week. Right. I just don't know if this iteration of that team has that issue anymore. Like I, it's not like it's something that absolutely couldn't crop up. The quarterback is not perfect. He doesn't make every throw. But I just don't think that that problem, that was one of the key reasons that good defenses were able to quiet them down a little bit last year, I don't really think it exists anymore. So that doesn't mean that I think that they're able to hang with the chief's offense every single week necessarily when the chiefs are at their best and Mahomes is doing stupid stuff.

could they necessarily do that, even though they've been a better offense in the entirety of the season up to this point or in the aggregate of the season, I guess is what I mean by that. But I just think they have a lot of, a lot of clubs in the bag. And that's fun to see. Yeah. It's like the opposite of Lamar where I said that he has no margin for error. Like Jalen Hertz has a huge margin for error. And he also provides that for the play caller just because you like the Jaguar, there was a play. it was in the first half.

The Eagles went empty. They put four receivers to one side. And the Jacks kept like six guys in the box. And that's because Jalen Hertz is very good at running the ball. Like he has running back skills, legitimate running back skills. And then you have that offensive line. If you only keep five guys in the box,

they're going to run you over. And Jalen Hertz is going to run you over like you did near the goal line. So the Jaguars are basically giving up the screens to the outside. And that just makes offense so much easier for the Eagles. They could just flip a screen out and get, free eight yards on first down. That's cheating. That's, that's so easy. Right. And they know they have the numbers advantage. So the defenders are in zone. They've got more space. Those guys are good at maneuvering their bodies to make

catches, even if the ball isn't like 100% on the money. And then all of a sudden, those outside throws are just not that scary anymore. So it, it all works. It's nice to see it all work. Yeah. All right. I mentioned the chiefs who are my first winner. The Chiefs beat the Bucks 41 to 31 on Sunday night football, just a kind of all-time Mahomes game. He had 249 passing yards and three touchdowns, which is not really representative of just how like stupidly goofy some of the stuff that he was doing was. I mean, the spin move pull-up jumper touchdown to Edwards O'Lare was just absurd. This buck's defense had allowed 20. seven points total in weeks one through three going into this game. And then all of a sudden it's halftime and the Chiefs offense is more than equaled that. And we need to just talk about some of the ridiculous Mohams plays.

But we had mentioned last week that when this offense had been a little bit shaky, one of the issues was that they were just not running the ball. Well, they had 189 rushing yards in this game. Isaiah Pacheco really looks like an element that they've been missing, just sort of like roster-wise in the past, that they haven't necessarily had that guy who, you know, his contributions aren't supposed to be in the passing game. He's a low pad level, plays with burst, strength,

kind of early down back. And he starts to get going, break some tough runs. And then all of a sudden, Clyde starts, looking like he's got a little bit more spring in his step too. And they really got the rushing game going, which I think just opened a lot of stuff up for them and allowed this game to be one where they really answered a lot of the questions that, you know, start to, start to creep into the mix when they have shakier performances

than they did here. So if there were conversations about if life would be better with Tyree Kill in the mix, I think they're a winner because they definitely answered those at least for this week against what's been a very good defense. Yeah, and one that gave them issues in a high profile situation. It kind of like reset the course of this offense two years ago. The one concern I still have is the deep ball still aren't coming yet.

And Mahomes has kind of missed on some. And then there was one where I think Hardman was running wide open down the field. Collinsworth pointed it out and Mahomes just didn't see them. But I still want to see that. I still want to see them hit on those deep balls before were like really willing to say that missing Tyreek is going to be not going to be an issue going into the playoffs and against teams like the bills where it might not be so easy. Not that the Bucks are a bad team, but the Bucks are kind of trying to find themselves early

in the season. I do wonder like how does this game turn out if Mahomes doesn't go wild like he did. This game almost felt like what the Super Bowl looked like except for Mahomes was making the plays. Like you remember that one play where he was parallel to the ground and throwing it? Those were the types of plays he was actually making. this game. So I do want to see this like for like three straight weeks. Yeah. Sure. And I also don't know. And we've talked about this before. I don't know that I don't know that they think that way anymore. Like they think that their job is to be the most exciting explosive regular season offense. I think there's a very clear directive within this organization that the job is to be as good as they can going into the playoffs because they're obviously going.

to be there and the name of the game is not so much like how it looks when you get there. It's what you're ready to do in January and February. And I think, look, like if we're talking about the Tyree conversation, that's obviously a part of that decision too just in terms of resource allocation, right? Because the defense has been pretty spicy. I think you still get a little bit of that Spags thing where it's like he has one good blitz and then he's like, let's do it all the time. And I don't know if you want to do that against Tom Brady.

even if he looks a little washed up. But for the most part, they've been a good unit, spicy. They looked, I thought pretty good in this game, even though the bucks did end up being able to put up points,

but it just seemed like especially early on. They had some good stuff going. They're able to put more resources into the defense, put the resources that they needed to put into Mahomes' contract, into Mahomes' contract, because they have to make some sacrifices in other places. So, like, I just think we have to analyze kind of how they're looking at this year and the years to come as the goal is to be in as many AFC championship games as possible because as long as they have Mahomes, that's a better than a coin flip kind of situation for them. And, like, that's how they can win multiple Super Bowls.

So to that end, I just wonder if, like, they entered this season going the thing we need to figure out how to do. is deal with these defenses that are going to play a lot of too high and that are going to deal with us this way. And I'm with you that it's a little bit weird to not see all of the deep stuff, but I think they're just not, like I think it seems like they almost have it

in their minds where they're going, we have to make sure that the shorter underneath game is like this really honed entity. Yeah. Because that's what we need to make sure that we can win playoffs. games with. So I see a little bit of that mindset. And then, of course, when it's Mahomes quarterbacking, you can still play that way and get 41 points. Yeah, no, that actually makes sense.

And like it makes a lot of sense just because of how the league is going. I feel like that's the trend is everyone wants to be able to like to be able to get five yards on first down every time. Just changes everything for the offense. And I think maybe that's the goal now compared to two years ago is probably getting like an 18. yard crosser over the middle wide open. So yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying. I do think this is very promising for them, like having a running back, like you said, who is good at running the ball. And that sounds so obvious. He's like a running back. Right. Like having a real running back. He's like a normal running back. Like in 1995, we would have been like that guy's a running back.

Right. And Andy Reid like almost never has those guys. So it's kind of cool to see it. And when when they go under center and they can run and they're running against this team specifically, like the bucks who have been so hard to run on. It's got to feel good for Andy. I think it's got to feel good for Andy. I think he feels good about where this team is right now after that game. And I could see them by December just having everything rolling and having that deep passing game mixed with the run game that's reliable.

That's going to be scary. Andy was definitely feeling good because as absurd as the like spit move touchdown play was from Mahomes. My personal favorite was the like look over there fake before the tight end sneak for their third touchdown. It was just,

you just, you gotta know that like Big Red was, was feeling good, was feeling happy after they pulled that one off. And Mahomes sold it too. I was like, what is going on over there? Oh, he's in the end zone.

I want to know like when they were practicing it would like read get on him. And like, again, you're not selling it. I need more like a director. directing like a terrible actor. You have to sell it with your eyes.

I want to see the practice clips. I would love that. I didn't know. Maybe we're all going to improv class together. Maybe, maybe Baham's did that. All right. Who's your first loser?

The Broncos. The Broncos finally, they finally lost a game they should have lost. I feel like the fact that they were two and one coming into this was kind of shocking. But they lose to the Raiders 32 to 23. It was a, it was a weird game for us.

It was a weird game because it looked like there were, 10 plays where he made spectacular throws down the field over the middle like throws that we've been wanting to see from him. He threw some digs. He threw some posts. He had his typical like deep moon balls. Yep.

But in the end, they only score one touchdown drive in the second half. Rusco is 17 for 25, 237 yards, two TDs. He ran a little bit more than he's been doing in the past, like in the first couple of weeks. I feel like that's been an emphasis for, the coaching staff. I know the last commentating team that covered their games mentioned it. I really think this offense needs him to be able to scramble for it to work because right now it's just so relying on explosive plays. Russell Wilson is 29th in dropback success rate right now.

Do you know who's behind him? Are you in front of him? Mitch Trubisky's in front of him in success rate. Oh, no. Carson Wentz is in front of him. Joe Flacco is in front of him. Daniel Jones, who is in front of him right now. So behind him, Fields. Fields, yes, Davis Mills. Oh. And Baker Mayfield. Yeah, it's pretty sad. It's pretty sad, but this is like the Russ offense.

This is what it's always been. And they can't run the ball. They're one of the worst rushing teams in terms of efficiency in the NFL right now. So they can't run. And then Giovante Williams got Carter to the locker room. Which isn't going to help. Melvin Gordon is finding like new hilarious ways to fumble the ball every week. to an art form. It's like a bit. Yeah. Okay. The best part of his fumble though was it's like right before

half time he fumbles. Amique Robertson picks it up, returns it. And right before he's going to go into the end zone, did you see the way that Garrett Bulls dove to try to tackle? No, I missed it. Oh my gosh. You have to. I'll send you the video. It's just like, first of all, next-gen stats tracked it and he ran at like the eighth fastest speed for a for an offensive lineman this year or something. So he really did make an admirable effort to get there. But he launches himself and he just sort of doesn't go anywhere. He goes he like it's like when you see someone just belly flop because from his launch point you're sort of expecting his body to go towards the goal line and then it just it just doesn't. But he it was like it the best.

hustle play I've seen this season. It just was incredibly ineffective. Never try, kids. Never try. That's the lesson. That's the lesson. D.K. Metcats tried once. But so these are the last, these are the drives in the second half for the for the Broncos. Five and out, three and out, three and out. Touchdown, four and out. And the touchdown drive was, I think there was like two explosive

plays. One was like a 50-yard post route. This offense just can't put together 10 play drives. to save their life without like Russ scrambling or making crazy plays. I don't know how it works. I don't know how it works. And we're already seeing like we're starting to see the narrative that the coaching staff is holding them back, which I don't know

if that's true. Like when I watch the Broncos offense, it looks fine. Like the plays are there to be made. It's just for one reason or another, they're not making it like Russ is taking a sack or Jerry Judy's not catching the ball or defense is making a good play. But it looks rough right now. And I don't know how. they figure this out because running the ball seems to be the key to this this type of offense,

the Shanahan offense. And if this just devolves into Russ going into gun, going into empty and calling quick game all game long, I just don't know how it works because then that makes it harder to get the explosives. The explosives are coming because of how they're lining up to run the ball under center. But if the runs don't work, can they really like live in that? that type of offense. I don't know. It's going to be hard to balance that. And especially if the thing that the principle that Russ sort of adopts from that style of play is to just throw short a lot, you're compounding your issues. And it's, I think, nice for them to place a little bit more emphasis on trying to get him to run with the

ball a little bit. Although I just, he's like, he's not like totally incapable of doing that, obviously, but he is a step slower than he was at his peak. And it's always, I think really tough for those guys who sort of have their muscle memory of if they could beat a guy to the edge or what they were capable of doing and when it slows down a little bit, it's hard for them to recalibrate, I think. Like, he still got out scrambled by Derek Carr in this game. Yes. I don't know, man. And he's like throwing the performative checkdowns still. Like he did it again this week instead of scrambling.

Like, I think he just wants to be a pocket pass. Define performative checkdown to me. like it's not a good play but he's throwing it because that's like what a quarterback does that's what like Drew Breeze would throw the check down but Drew Breeze would like actually go through his progression he thinks he's going to get like

smart quarterbacking points for yeah he wants to live to fight another down there was a play right before the half it was right before the two minute warning and Russ like he could have got tackled in bounds the two minute warning would it came clock would stop but Russ tried really hard

to get out of bounds I don't think he realized that it was the two minute a warning, but it was just Russ trying to make a valiant play for no reason at it all. It's kind of like the Bulls play. Anything on the Raiders from this? No, no. The offensive line looked a lot better. They could run the ball, and I think that was a big key.

And then Devante Adams, the connection with Devante Adams looked a lot better. He had nine catches for 100 yards, and he had Patrick Soutain on him for most of the game. And I think one thing that was encouraging was Derek Carr tried to get him the ball, no matter what. Like there were times when he was kind of covered and Carr would throw it. And we had seen the previous three weeks that he wasn't doing that, even when Adams was getting open. So I think we're seeing a little more chemistry. I think the offense is coming together.

But I don't know if we can bank on the offensive line just totally dominating its matchup every week. And that's what happened. They were just washing the Broncos defensive line out. And I think that was the key to the game. And I don't know if they can rely on that going forward. All right. My first loser. So I want to talk about Patriots Packers. I don't think I can in good conscience assign Bailey Zappy and L,

but I'm going to give the L to Bailey Zappy's Hall of Fame highlight reel, which I do think, unfortunately, took a hit in this 27 to 24 Packers win. And so Mack Jones has a high ankle sprain. Brian Hoyer starts the game, goes out with a head injury early on. And so third string quarterback Bailey Zappy, who apparently actually split starters reps with Brian Hoyer over the course of the week. So there was like some question of who would play or I don't know if that's just couching for if Hoyer's terrible.

Maybe there needs to be a quarterback switch. It wasn't like he had no preparation. But still, it's Bailey Zappy. he comes in the game and towards the end of the fourth quarter, this is a tie game. It's 24 to 24. Patriots have no business being in this game. And it's really exciting, right? Because for some reason that I can't quite figure out, Matt Patricia's offense has looked more efficient and in rhythm and sustainable in this game than it has for much of the season.

all of a sudden they're on the cusp of maybe pulling out a win against Aaron Rogers and the Packers was Bailey Zappy at quarterback and they get so, so, so conservative. So the two drives at the end of the game, the last one of regulation

and the drive they had in overtime. Both situations, a field goal is probably winning you this game, right? So the last drive of regulation, they go three straight handoffs for Andre Stevenson and then punt on, I think, fourth and one. In overtime, it's two handoffs to Damien Harris and an incompletion of Hunter Henry

before punting on fourth and five. The surrender index account, which is like how cowardly is it to punt in a situation. And I don't know what the algorithm for that is, but I trust it because it's online. Vibes. Just vibes. Called it the said that that punt was in the 99.6th percentile of cowardly punts for this year. When, if not, in overtime with a chance to pull out a win against Aaron Rogers with Bailey Zabby at quarterback, when if not in that moment, is it the right time to be a little daring? And after the game, you have a theory?

Yeah. All right. All right. He ran out of place. He ran out of place. He used all the good play. He's like, oh, man. Actually, I actually don't hate that.

theory because they did have to pare down the offense quite a bit to have Bailey Zappy run it, which is sort of interesting because there's been so much evidence that, okay, the Patriots were actually already trying to simplify their offense a little bit, but they were also trying to do different stuff and do they have the coaches and just the bodies to be teaching all these players to do all of these different things. So maybe there's something to be said for like Bailey Zappy knows like eight plays. Let's just do that. And all of a sudden it looks better, but maybe you run out at the end of the game. Maybe that's the issue. I don't know, man. This is like so funny that how this offense is being run. Like the, the week to week operation is

just, it's getting funnier and funnier by the week. Like, I, I said that as a bit, but I don't know if that if it's not true. Like, maybe they had like five third down plays they were comfortable with Zappi running and they had used them out. Sorry. If we do this again, he's going to throw like a pick. So, yeah. That's my theory. Going with it. So I don't hate it except for the fact that they were also really conservative on defense. They'd played quite a bit of that game being in pretty tight coverage.

And it was going as well as I think you could possibly hope. And Rogers was a little bit like he just wants to throw the ball to his friends and doesn't want anything to do with any of the young guys. So it was kind of working. and then all of a sudden those last couple of drives, they're just like, all right, let's hang back, can't get too close to anybody, and they end up furthering away the chance.

Yeah, and then after the game, Belichick says something about Aaron Rogers was just too good today for them to win. But if he's just too good, then try to beat him when you have the opportunity. If he's going to do that, then you have to take your chance and not punt on fourth and five.

Believe in Bailey Zappy. Believe in Bailey Zappy. Don't worry, be zappy. Oh, no. I saw somebody tweet that. I can't take that. I thought you wrote that yourself before. I know.

That would be really good. You would be kicked off the Friday pod. Yeah. Speaking of people, I believe in, my next winner is Gino Smith. How's that for a segue? That was really good.

That was really good. All right. Lay the propaganda on thick. Let's go. Okay. He is leading the NFL in CPOE. that's completion percentage over expected. His completion percentage is 10% higher than expected.

Second place is James Winston. So you know this is a good stat that's measuring good quarterback play. But he leads to NFL. Who's last, Stephen? Patrick Mahomes. Trevor Lawrence. Oh, I was just pretending like the stat was bad. But anyway, he's leading by 5%.

That's a big deal. It's a big margin. He's like the first quarterback to, I think it was complete 70. percent of his passes through the first four games. Today, like, this has been kind of a bit. Like, I think Gino is fine. I think he's better than people thought he was, and I thought he could play a little.

Today, he legitimately looked like a top 10 quarterback. Like, the throws he was making were, like, Justin Herbert. Like, he was making, like, deep, he's throwing deep digs over the middle, throwing scene balls that were, like, perfectly covered on the back shoulder. He was scrambling. Oh, so, like, the old Justin Herbert when they let him play. quarterback. Yeah, yeah, the old one. Not the quick game, Justin Herbert from this year. The old one back when he was good. Back when he was good. Now he's washed. Sad. Sad what

what Lombardi did with my boy. I'm sorry. I was being antagonistic. He was working back, like the backside of concepts. He was throwing backside digs. He was anticipating throws. It was comprehensive. It was impressive. Like I think we're not going to start Gino Smith MVP this course. But let's say he plays like that for another month. We're starting it up because he's carrying this team on his back right now. This is one of the worst defenses I've seen in the NFL. Like the defense was so bad. Like Jared Gough was not good today. But he put up monster numbers because the defense was so bad. They were like in position. The Lions defense was exactly super thorny. I mean, when you're going up against one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL,

it's tougher. It's tough. It's tougher. It's tougher. You can only hope to contain him. You do not get credit for being like nuanced and couching your takes by saying, look, look, we're not going to start Gino Smith MVP talk. That sentence, the assumptions required to say that sentence, that doesn't, that doesn't qualify as like, oh, I'm just, you know, not going out on a limb here. I thought people, I thought others were saying it.

I have only two notes from this game. Okay. And they are D.K. leaving on cart. And then later, update, he left to poop. Yes. So that's something that happened. And then Grim Reaper meme Jeff Akuta did not come for DK. No, he did not.

Which is true. Another L for Solac. He wrote about Akuta last week and then he gets embarrassed immediately. immediately. It's a tough week for Solac, man. Tough week. But the lines are giving up, they've given up the most points in NFL history through four games. This is historically bad.

Aidan Hutchinson tough game for the number two pick. It was a, he was getting like washed out by tight ends by like Noah fan who is not a blocking tight end, but was like dominating him at the point of attack. It started to get a little concerning. I will say that.

Trent Balke was right to go with Walker. Just another, just another W for Trent. Damn. The, the lions are very good proof that, like, having good vibes allows you to get away with anything because they have a defense

that's just, like, made out of silly putty. And every week, we're like, the lions are so fun, which is true, because they have a great offense and good vibes. Yeah,

it is a good offense. Like, I feel like this, this is another one of those offenses that, like, obviously not winning games, but you can rely on them to score like 20 points a game, 25 points a game at least. And they're doing that every week. And I think it's because, like the Eagles, they have a run game that you have to account for. And that just opens up

space for Jared Gough. Totally. And I mean, they didn't have St. Brown in this game. Like, there's reasons. They're good. They can do a lot of stuff. I'm into the Lions. I don't, this game was just insane. It was a good game. It was a good game. It was a good. game of football. Like, you wouldn't expect that, but these offenses are both well designed and they're like cohesive and they're, they have things figured out that like the bills don't have figured out right now. It's kind of funny.

But yeah, I think the lines are going to continue to score points. If they get a real quarterback in here and they figure out just like how not to give up 40 points a game, I feel like they're like maybe a year away for making the playoffs. I think the, the hype in the offseason was a little premature. But teams on the right track.

I like Dan Campbell good job good job so far figure out the defense and I think he'll be fine yeah I feel that way too I do think look if they've got to get a little bit more out of Hutchinson I think just for the sole reason that that because of how high profile he was around the draft that's like one of the things that people will eventually sort of pick up on and be like, hey, why aren't you guys getting more from that guy? And some of the benefit of the doubt starts to deteriorate. But so far, so good. And, you know, you're going up against a future MVP quarterback. There's only so much you can do. That's true. Best player in the league. Okay. My second winner does not have quite as much, uh, did not have quite as much in terms of points offensively.

but is the Falcons who won 23 to 20 against the Browns while completing seven passes today. And I'm making them a winner because I just think this offense is hysterical. Like Arthur Smith is so petty that Marcus Marius Marius Mara throws a pick in the third quarter. And then he has him run it on 14 players in a row, which includes a touchdown drive. So it totally works. So I've been fascinated kind of all season by how. this weird collection of players coalesces into something that like kind of works. The Browns turned it over on downs and fumble them through a pick, which obviously helped.

This was not exactly a huge firepower game. But I'm just fascinated by how they're putting this together, particularly if we are starting to see some disintegration maybe of the coach's commitment to the quarterback, what might happen if Desmond Ritter eventually got into this offense because it's just like, it's not that they've been even really that good per se, but it's just hard to look at this group that's getting like, you know, all the weird stuff from Patterson. They haven't really gotten Kyle Pitts going at all, but like he's such an interesting player. And then they're getting these like totally unknown, you know, rookie running backs to

add over 100 yards on the ground. And it's just all like so, it's fascinating for me to watch. And it makes me excited for what they might do if Arthur Smith were in a situation where he trusted the quarterback, but I'm not sure when that's going to happen. Yeah, this is another one of those offenses where they don't have a reliable passing game, dropback passing game, but the offense still works because they can run the ball so well. And the dilemma for Smith is that I think Marriota kind of like boosts the offense by being a runner himself. So if you take him out, you kind of lose that edge because Ritter's fine.

He's a good athlete, but he's not quite the runner that Marcus Perriota was. Obviously, Mariotto won a Heisman running basically. So I think there's a delicate balance there. And I wonder if they think about or if they have thought about doing a two quarterback thing at this point. it's a weird offense. Let's get weirder. Just get weirder. Just make it as strange as possible. Make it as college as possible.

Two quarterback offense. They're already doing like pistol option stuff. Just lean into it. Just become Navy. Become a service academy. Run the triple. I'm so into it. I'm so into it. It's, it's, look, they have 200 plus rushing yards and wins and back-to-back games.

Can't knock it. It's the thing that's worked. Keep it going. Commit to the bit. That's what I would like to see for the Valcons. I always like leaning into a bit. But I do think like the running game, it's kind of interesting to watch this team

and like the benefits of having this type of system where you're willing to run it 15 times in a row. Marcus Marriota, I think, is the least pressured quarterback in the NFL right now. And it's something like some ridiculous number, like 15% of his dropbacks. This offense is like showing you. And the offensive line is not good.

Like the Falcons offensive line individually talent. That's not why. It's not very good. It's all about scheme. And I think we're seeing the benefits of having a scheme like this. And the Falcons aren't going to make the playoffs probably. The lines aren't going to make the playoffs probably. The Eagles, they're going to make the playoffs,

but I don't think they're going to win a championship in this season. But I think there's something you can learn from these teams. And that's, there's a way to build an offense that works well enough around a quarterback who is limited. in different ways. And I wonder if the league doesn't copy their blueprint, but starts to think like that, starts to think that they could build an offense

if they just invest in the run game. Is running back? Running's back. That's what I'm getting at. This whole podcast, that's the theme. Running is back. The nerds are losing.

Anything else to that beyond there's just so much too high in the league that that's the way to exploit that kind of defense? I think it is. But if you look at, at the stats, like the overall league stats, this is the lowest EPA per dropback in like 20 years, like going back to 2000. It's the lowest yards per dropback since like 2006 or 2007 when

they made the rule changes to make playing defense so much harder. And then you saw the Patriots came along with the spread revolution in 2007, which Kevin Clark has written about. And now we're starting to feel like defenses have caught up. Never heard of them. Don't mind looking it up. Don't read the article. It's bad. It's terrible. It's a very good article. But it feels like it's taken, what, what has it been? 15 years for defenses to catch up. And they finally caught up to the NFL going to the spread.

And we're seeing like the other way around. We're seeing fullbacks and more tight ends come back into vogue. And it's, it's interesting. Yeah. It definitely is. Especially because look, even if you can, even if you can notice that happening on the field on a game to game basis, the last however many years of football, have not taught these teams that their rosters should be designed to be able to maximize

that. It's actually in general taught the opposite. And that's why we get in a situation where it's like someone like Isaiah Pacheco is such a big deal or could be such a big deal for the chiefs. And, you know, they're lucky that someone like that, that they get in the seventh round can maybe make, you know, turns out to be a good player and can maybe make a little bit of a difference. but there's just not that many teams that have committed resources to those players. And look, a month into this season, I am certainly not ready to say that they should because we have a bunch more evidence to the contrary.

But it's a really interesting problem to see teams try to attack because the players that can maybe solve for some of those issues or overcome some of those challenges that defenses might throw of you. They're not, you know, they're not the guys that for the last four or five off seasons organizations have been going like, okay, we really, this is what we need to value. So it's sort of a challenging situation for a lot of teams. Yeah. And speaking of a team that it's challenging for, I'm my, my next loser. You're just crushing the transition. Yeah. I love it. I'm not missing an opportunity. But the saints, the saints are my loser. And really, this is my new thing. This is my new axe to grind.

The Sean Payton coaching tree. Canceled. Enough with it. I don't like it. The whole theory of the offense just doesn't make sense to me. They're doing the foolbacks and the tight ends and they're running into heavy boxes thing. But they're doing it to like set up like eight yard routes. Like why are we getting under center and getting into and running play action and handing it off in eye form to like have Justin

Herbert run a eight-yard hit trout. It's too much. And Pete Carmichael is not doing, the Saints did well today. So I do, they do deserve some credit. They end up losing Will Lutz. Was it a 61-yard field goal? Yeah.

Missed by about a foot. I guess it hit the crossbar. Yeah, twice or an inch twice. How loud was the, that's your, your area of expertise, right? The, the, I didn't hear the, so the doank didn't seem that

loud on repeat play. I have to confess that I love. listened to it on replay because that was the early game and I'd woken up this morning kind of early intending to go for a run before the game started and do all this stuff and I didn't really do it. And so the game starts and I'm like, okay, well, if they get through this quickly, I might have half an hour. The Vikings went ahead at like 1229, I think. And from where I live to run around the reservoir in Central Park and back to my apartment is like three and a half miles. And I had my sneakers on.

So I was like, if I just go now, I can do this. It'll be fine. And I'm like, nothing could possibly happen in this. Like, we're, okay, we're done. They're maybe 20 seconds left or something. I thought it was completely over like nothing weird could possibly happen. I'm somewhere on the run and I get my phone buzzes and it's a notification where it's like, Will Lutz is 61-yard kick, double doink, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I'm like, oh, crap. And I was just thinking, like, how many weird things happened, which obviously it wasn't that weird. But so I watched on replay. This is the game where I think we can say that Justin Jefferson is the best receiver in the NFL. Because Marshawn Latimore, I think is, he's not the best cornerback, but I think he's the toughest one to play just because of how physical he is and how he,

He just bullies receivers. And my big concern with Justin Jefferson going into the draft, it wasn't a big concern. I didn't have big concerns about him. But it was how he would deal with press because he just didn't deal with it at LSU. And he's just been having so much success against the biggest, baddest quarterbacks in the NFL. Like Jalen Ramsey, he gave problems. Marshaun Latimore, he's giving problems. He goes for 10 catches, 147 yards, and a touchdown.

He's the best receiver in that. NFL right now. I think he's better than Cup. I think he's better than Devante. I think I would take him over Tyreek. And Tyreek is the only one that I think has changes the math for defenses and offenses and changes like spacing. But Jefferson, he's he's he's approaching that. He's a guy that I think you have to double on every third down. Well, and they were able to get a big game from him, 147 yards and 72 from Thielen, which is sort of proof of concept of if he's taking all of that attention. and or more than competing against a really, really good physical corner.

And you have those two guys. You should be able to have results like that. And the Vikings should have been in quite a bit more control of that game. But there were two of five in the red zone, five of 14 on third down. I couldn't really figure out if primetime Kirk was at the wheel or if he wasn't because it was early in the day. but at least my time it was early in the day,

his body clock time it was early in the day, I guess technically where he was, it was later, and it was the only game on. So I'm chalking up some of the struggles in the red zone and struggles in critical downs to Kirk couldn't figure out if it was a primetime game or not. So there had to be like a little bit of each side.

But the Vikings survived it. And now they're three and one. Are we ready to at least discuss the possibility of them being better than the Packers this year. I don't, I'm not ready to fully commit. I'm ready to discuss it. Yes. I am ready to discuss it.

I'm not sure that Aaron Rogers is really invested in running their, running the Packers offense. It just seems like he wants to throw passes to his buddies. And that's fine. That sounds nice. That's probably what I would do if I were a quarterback. But I don't know that it works as well as it could. If he were distributing the ball and getting,

some of their younger pass catchers into the mix a little bit. I mean, the running game still, you know, could be pretty good. I'm confused about what's up with that defense because they just have been so much less impressive than I expected them to be. If I had to choose right now, I'm still picking the Packers who are also three and one. But I hear the question. Yeah. So my thing is, like Aaron Rogers, he had a good game last week against the bucks.

but I agree with you. I think this is starting to look a little bit like late McCarthy era. Aaron Rogers doesn't trust the offense. Doesn't isn't going to be patient in the pocket. Might bail out of pockets early. And then I don't know if he still has the arm talent to not survive playing like that because I think he's definitely good enough to do that, but to thrive doing it.

I don't know because he's missed a few more throws than he's he's. he's missed it over the last two years since he's been like the MVP. It looks like pre- MVP Rogers when we were all discussing whether he was still a lead or not. And I don't know how that changes because the wide receiving court is not going to get better. The run game has to get better. I think that's the one thing they thought was going to be better. And some of the 21 personnel stuff, like the two backs with AJ Dylan and Aaron Jones

on the field at once, it's not working real well because, defenses are just like not really respecting it. They're just matching with nickel and being like, okay, you want Aaron Jones to beat a cornerback in the slot? Go ahead. Try and do that. So I do think the offense isn't where it needs to be. If this team is going to be, it's going to win the NFC North by a wide margin and then compete for a Super Bowl

in the playoffs. I disagree with you a little bit that the receiving group can't get better because I think some of those young guys, I mean, he's not, he targeted Dobbs eight times. He has that drop in the end zone and you sort of fear for, oh, God, is he not going to get another ball his way for the rest of time? But he really, really likes, you know, throwing to Alan Lazzard and Randall Cobb. And that's fine.

But you're going to do plenty of that. But it seems like it funnels to those guys so much faster than anybody else. And I just, you worry about that a little. little bit because you have to use this part of the season to get better. You have to use it to win games, obviously, but they're managing to do that. And the other task is help guys play themselves up, right? Help them be better players by the end of the season than at the beginning. And he likes things in a very particular way. And a lot of quarterbacks are like that. And that's fine. But I think the group could get better if they were getting a few more opportunities.

Yeah, I do wonder about the trust thing because now Watson and Dobbs, the two young guys, have two drops that in big spots. Well, I guess Watson's first drop wasn't a big, I think it was the first snap of the season and he drops a 60-yard touchdown. It was a high-profile spot. Yeah, everything goes downhill from there and then, oh, another thing. Enough with Des Bryant and did he catch it or not? Every time there's a catch like this, it comes up.

Enough. Enough. Okay, I'll make a note, Stephen. Okay, yeah, let Des know. All right. Last loser of the night. I'm giving an L to the Pittsburgh Steelers, who lost to the Jets, 24 to 20.

And I'm particularly giving the Steelers this L because this is a process L. I'm doing out of process L. Can you pick it? made his first appearance in this game. He finished 10 of 13 for 120 yards and three picks, which I guess means he didn't have a ball fall incomplete. So that's exciting. Ran for two touchdowns.

Came in after the half after Mitch Trubisky played. It's more uninspiring football. That's all fine. Pickett looked fine. I think as, as, you know, good as you can expect in that situation. It wasn't amazing. it wasn't concerning. It was whatever.

It's his first real action. But coming into this game, Mitch had not been good. The Steelers had 10 days off, and then they were going to play the Jets. I don't know about you, Stephen. That looks like a pretty nice time to get your rookie quarterback ready to play.

But they didn't do that. And then Trubesky doesn't do well. So at halftime, Tomlin goes to Kenny Pickett and says, you're going in. And Pickett said after the game that, you know, there wasn't anything different about how they handled the week of prep. So the first time that he heard about playing was at half time right before he was going to go in.

Maybe as Tomlin said, he just wanted someone to try to give him a spark and to change how things were going. Maybe it's not a meaningful switch going forward, although I sort of have a hard time believing that just because Trubisky has not been good. and if they think picket's the future, I don't see why you wouldn't want to keep that going. But now, instead of a 10-day period before playing the Jets,

if it's picket going forward, he will be getting ready to start a game for the first time before games against the bills, bucks, dolphins, and eagles for the next month. Good luck. Which doesn't sound fun. Not at all. So I don't know how much it matters in the long run,

but it just, you can, you know, sometimes something happens in a game where you can look at it and go, I don't like how that process went. That process doesn't make sense. The way that A, led to B, led to C just doesn't make a lot of sense. If you were going to, you know, if Trubisky was on that short of a leash, then maybe you should have just started picking on this game. Might not matter at all in the long run, but I think that's true. If you were a half, a bad half away from benching Mitch Trubisky, and it's not like Trubisky was bad in ways that we haven't seen him be bad before.

Like this was expected, this performance. I agree with you. You had 10 days. People have been calling for Pickett since, I think, week one, basically, when Mitch almost lost the Bengals game. It makes me question the development of this team because, are the development of picket, because we haven't seen Tomlin for as good as he has been. He never had to develop a quarterback.

And I think that's like the greatest test of a of a coaching staff in a front office is being able to develop a quarterback. And honestly, like going back to before Ben Rathesberger kind of fell off a cliff at the end of his career, their succession plan has always been a little bit questionable. Like drafting Mason Rudolph when they did and Ben questioned that and then like not drafting a quarterback up until last year. I think it's fair to start wondering if, if, like, he's in good hands with this team right now. Just because he is older and I think it's better for him to play sooner. And I don't even know if Mitch should have been starting to begin with. Like, why not throw in, throw him into the action when he's a 24 year old already?

He was a fifth year senior. His thing was being the smart quarterback, the pro ready quarterback. Like, I'm questioning this whole process going back to even pre-season. season. Yeah. So I hear all that for sure and definitely agree with a lot of it. The thing that I think is genuinely tricky is that there's something to Tomlin where, look, if you're Mitch Trubisky, you don't like this moment. You don't like getting benched, but you love Mike Tomlin because he has not said a bad word. And to the point of appearing a little bit dense, he has kind of stood by Mitch and sort of sounded like he's saying people. I don't know what you're talking.

about Mitch is our starter. Mitch is, Mitch is great. That's in some way is a reflection of someone who's a really good coach, right? Like if you're a player, you know that that coach has your back and you want to play for him and you know that he sort of understands what you're going through emotionally and how to motivate you. And I think at any other position, that works really well. The problem with doing it at quarterback is that that guy's performance impacts

everyone else so significantly that if you pull the wool over your eyes or even just sound like you are about that guy, then you just can't get away with it. Like it's just not possible because every other player knows that how they perform impacts how the quarterback performs,

impacts how they're going to perform and how it's going to reflect on them and, you know, what kind of contract situations they're going to get in and what the future of their career in Pittsburgh looks like or they're playing career in general. Like that is the the weight of the stuff that you deal with in how you manage the quarterback position for a team.

So I don't think you can deal with it in exactly the same way. And that's something, that's one of the rare things that this very experienced staff hasn't really had to deal with. Yeah. And I like, I think a good example of what you're talking about is like, Kenny Pickett comes in, George Pickens gets like six targets. in a row. And it seemed like George Pickens was starting to get frustrated. I think there was a quote after the game where he was saying he was open every snap and he didn't know why he wasn't getting the

ball. I think it's hard to keep those guys like on message when you are trotting Mitch Trubisky out there. And it's like, like you said, it's so easy to see when it's the quarterback. Like if it's Aidan Hutchinson struggling, the lines can keep going, oh yeah, he's doing everything we want him to. He's doing fine. He's whatever. Hutchinson right now has some advanced stats that look great. Like you can BS that all day and all night. You can't do it with Mitch. You can't do it with me.

You could say like, oh, he's better than Russell Wilson by success rate. By success rate, he's better than Russell Wilson. That's like one thing you can use. But I do think here's my question. And maybe this is pessimistic and maybe I'm not respecting Tomlin as much as I should. But like, is he the right guy for this job? Because I feel like Mike Tomlin is the coach you want when you have. have a veteran team that's ready to win.

I don't know if I necessarily want him for a rebuild just because I don't feel like that's that's his biggest strength. Like what did tell me why Mike Tomlin. I think he's who's around him, right? Like Mike Tomlin is is the answer to that question I think is yes. I think he's the right guy for this job, this job being make the football team as good as you can. Now, yes.

you want some people there who maybe have more experience with this particular type of situation. And I don't quite know if. Yeah, I don't know if that's Matt Canada. Maybe there should be, I think it's definitely fair to wonder if some voices that are specifically involved in quarterback development are the right ones. I think in terms of like who's actually steering the ship, you want Mike Tomlin's record is. his resume is pretty darn good. I think it's hard to find complaint with that. This is me more questioning whether Mike Tomlin should want this.

Like, what is stopping Mike Tomlin from going to like the Cowboys and going, Hey, Jerry, I'm kind of interested. Like, I feel like that's the type of team that Mike Tomlin would really, you'd get the most out of Mike Tomlin with a team like that, a team that's ready to win. I don't hate it. I don't hate it. Do you know who would?

I just think he likes Pittsburgh. The city of Pittsburgh would really hate it if he went to the Cowboys. Yeah. Be wild. be a wild day on television. That's for sure. Um, the other thing that happened in this game is that Zach Wilson got his first start of the year. He looked okay. He looked okay. It's fine. 81 yard drive, 65 yard drive came back from 10 points behind through two picks, but he looked pretty healthy, mobile, didn't fall apart at the end even when they were

making the comeback. Um, they might get Dwayne Brown off IR this week, which would be a big deal because that offensive line is just so hurt that, like, Elijah Vera Tucker started at left tackle. Their right tackle, Max Mitchell got carted off during the game. So it was kind of impressive, actually, that they could make that even remotely steady. But if they got brownback, that would be a big deal because they're really hurting there. But it was okay. That was okay. Yeah, it was fine.

I feel like him bouncing back from the bad interceptions is encouraging. but there were a couple throws that he made. He made the Zach Wilson trick shot throws, the pro day throws that people said might not apply to the NFL level, but he's making those throws and I think that's something you do need to see. If he wasn't making those and he wasn't making plays like a veteran quarterback in structure, then you'd have a concern, but at least he's giving you that. I'm more optimistic about Zach Wilson now than I was going into this game at the very

at least, not by like leaps and bounce, but it was a good, it was a good first step. All right, Stephen, will you close this out with our non-headline story of the week? Yeah, our non-headline story. It was a rough day for the Giants quarterback's, uh, Daniel Jones, I think he injures his ankle, Tyra Taylor gets a concussion. So the Giants put Daniel Jones back in the game with the ankle injury, but they put him at receiver and they line up in the Wildcat with Sequin and Matt Breed in the backfield. So here's my pitch to you.

and I've been trying to pitch this for eight months now. Let's scrap the typical offense, the regular offense. Ben's Daniel Jones go full-time Wildcat with Sequin Barclay in the background at quarterback and just run the ball. Like their regular dropback passing game isn't good. It leads to sacks, leads the interceptions. The run game, I think, has a chance to be good. And if they like really lean into, and I'm obviously joking, don't go full wildcap,

but honestly run an offense that looks like. but the Eagles are running for Jalen Hertz, for Daniel Jones. And I think this offense is like viable like that if you do that because Daniel Jones is a good runner. That's one thing we could say about him. And he can throw a good deep ball. Make Daniel Jones an option quarterback, build a play action passing game around that, and have him throw deep balls down the sideline like the Eagles do with Jalen Hertz. You score 24 points a game.

Maybe you make the playoffs in the NFC East. I don't hate it. I mean, I also don't think that Brian Daibel, who's like drawn, plays up on the grease board on the sideline would hate it either. Not against it. Not against it. I don't think so. So that's my pitch. That's my pitch. I just saved the giants. I just saved the giants. Who would have thought? Stephen Ruiz saving the giants. I tried to save the giants five years ago when I told them to relax about benching Eli

Mani for Gino Smith. They didn't listen then. I'm giving them another gem today. If they don't take it, that's on them. That's not my fault. fool me once shame on me fool me twice you're the New York Giants I don't know that didn't quite work out this has been the ringer NFL Sunday recap show thank you for listening

thank you so much Stephen for joining thank you to Ben for joining us for the headline next up on the feed tomorrow is Sheel and Ben with extra point taken their deep dive of week four then power anchors with Jason Gough and Austin Gale are on Tuesday I will be back on Wednesday with the island she'll will be back Thursday with the Scramble.

The Ringer NFL preview show with Danny Hafeitz, Ben, and Stephen will preview week five on Friday. As always, thank you to Isaiah Blakely for production on this episode and to Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.