The Ringer NFL Show - Week 5 Recap: Another Impressive Niners Performance, the Bengals Bounce Back, and the Jaguars go 2-0 in London | Dual Threat

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

Nora and Steven start by discussing the Niners' dominant win over the Cowboys, and discuss whether the Niners are the clear best team in the NFL. Then, they get to their Week 5 winners and losers, and talk about the Eagles, Jets, Patriots, and more (26:04), before wrapping up with the take purge (1:23:30). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Producer: Isaiah Blakely Social: Kiera Givens and Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The ringer gambling feat is your one-stop shop for all things betting throughout the NFL season. From week one all the way through Super Bowl 58 in Las Vegas, we have you covered every which way. We've got our favorite futures. We've got props. We'll discuss the lines. And, of course, we'll throw in a few parlase. That's a given. So whether you're a sharp or square better, we'll be breaking it down in terms.

Hopefully, everybody can understand. We'll try to win some money along the way. and be sure to subscribe to the ring of gambling feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to dual threat. I'm Norpensiotti. And I'm Brock Purdy. Wait. Wow. Gracing this podcast, Brock Purdy, the perfect record possessing Brock Purdy never lost to start. Is that really who I see on Zoom across from me? It looks kind of like it's Stephen Ruiz. Yeah, I'm Brock Purdy actually. And I think, you guys should give Stephen a break. 49ers fans,

25 is a good ranking. I like it. I support it. Oh my goodness. All right. Well, Brock and I are here. We're breaking down the week five action from Sunday. And we are going to start with Sunday night football,

which turned into a 49ers beat down of the Cowboys, 42 to 10, in a historically, you know, vaunted series between these. two teams. It was the largest margin of victory in 40 games of history between the Cowboys and the Niners. And San Francisco now joins the Eagles as the only five and no teams in the NFC and also in the entire league. Big ramifications from this one. These are two Super Bowl contenders. At least that was the field going in. Stephen, do you want to start with San Francisco or you want to start with Dallas?

I think San Francisco. Because it just feels like Dallas, the story is still the same as it was last year. maybe the offense is a little worse off than it was last year, but it still feels like this team is so far away that I don't even think what we saw on Sunday night was all that surprising and is going to change my opinion on the top of the conference that much. But I think what we saw from San Francisco was the best team in the NFL at this point.

I don't think anyone's even been close to them, really. I can't think of a team off the top of my head, but every phase of the game, even the special teams tonight, was way better than what. what Dallas had out there. And it was, they just outclassed them. And like the Eagles, they played well against the Rams, but we haven't seen them hit their

A game yet. And with the 49ers, it's an A game every week seemingly. All three phases. You say that the 49ers feel like the team at the top of the league and what strikes me said going into the season. They sort of felt like that. I mean, you look at the roster and go, oh, this is easily one of the best in football. But the question was was party, right?

it was the quarterback. And we can and probably will get into what degree of credit he should be owed, which I think is a separate question from how far can he take them. But the thing that feels sort of instructive to me coming out of this game or the thing that I feel like is crystallizing as something I've learned about the 49ers through a month plus is just that Purdy is getting better which I guess in some ways seems obvious, right? He's getting more and more experience as a starter. He's getting more and more experience in this offense with these teammates. But what happened at the end of last season when he came in and had so much success before getting injured,

but it was also when McCaffrey was getting up to speed and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it just felt fluky. And I guess I felt so affected by just thinking of him as this Mr. Irrelevant guy who came in and was sort of taking the league by storm, but was also getting propped up by this offense, that it made me frame the question about the 49ers coming into this year as if it was sustainable, like if he would regress. And I thought that he probably would a little bit, but that they would still be okay because of all the talent and because of Shanahan and blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The thing that I just did not consider is that we would be five weeks in and his completion percentage would be up. His yards per attempt would be up. He would be throwing three touchdowns in the game, all of which traveled over 10 air yards. He's getting better. And on some level, that's not a surprise, but it was not the way that I thought about sort of the stakes of Brock Purdy's performance coming into the year. And it does for me answer the last question.

And the only question really that that existed for them coming into the year about whether or not they were a clear Super Bowl contender, if not a Super Bowl favorite. To not allow me to just spread Brock Pretty propaganda unchecked. Do you agree that he, like, to me, it looks like he's getting better. And I think statistically it bears out that he's doing things that are a little bit more impressive than he was last year. But what do you think about that? No, yeah, I definitely think he's better than he was a year ago. Like, that's very clear. The ironic thing is, I think the way he's gotten better is by being more like Jimmy G.

And, like, the reason why it seemed like Kyle was so enamored with him last year at the end was because of the things that he did that weren't like Jimmy G. But now you're starting to see that like, I don't want to say blind trust in the offense because that kind of tries to downplay what he's doing. But there is like there is more trust on those throws over the middle. He is throwing with more anticipation. And anticipation requires trust. If you don't trust that the guy's going to get open, you don't make those throws early. Right. So I do think that's where you're seeing the biggest growth.

Like you're seeing him make the Jimmy G throws that we thought was a product of Jimmy G's quick release or like how he threw the ball. But it looks like it's just a product of this offense. And then that anticipation, like I think he throws a better ball over the middle than Jimmy G does. I think he does a better job of layering the ball over the second level where Jimmy G just kind of try to fire it in there, whether there was a guy in the way or not. that's where I think he kind of improves this offense. But like I don't think there was really a question about the sustainability

of the offense as long as the pieces around him were healthy. There's like no reason for it to think he was going to regress if like Christian McCaffrey, George Kittle, all these guys were still there because that was the environment he did it in last year. I do agree though. He's gotten better. And that's why the offense looks like this

totally new thing. Even compared to the end of last year. Like this is, I don't know how you stop him. I don't know what take away. And I think there is some, it was a small sample size. And the way that he played, the way that this offense performed is not what you expect for the last pick in the draft coming into a team and offense and winning every single game, he starts and finishes.

Like that to me is an outlier and almost reason enough in and of itself to go, oh boy, like he might start throwing a turnover every other play. he's completing basically every pass instead. So just I guess on some level I'm agreeing with you because I'm saying that that line of thinking was fallacious. However, I was in many ways guilty of it, which is why I think it's meaningful just to watch this happen and to watch him take steps forward. I hear what you're saying about Jimmy.

He's, I think critically, he's not as pocketbound as Jimmy. No, no, definitely not. I just think he's kind of like found that middle ground compared to last year when he was a little more chaotic and Jimmy was more of like the system guy. I feel like he's gone to the center of that spectrum now this year and that's led to the improvement that we have seen. You're hearing a lot of like robotic, robot, mechanical, like quick, that stuff thrown around. And it does, it is funny when to think of the quick release stuff that's always been one of the things that people like about. Jimmy Garoppolo. I am also thinking about that in a slightly new way,

just as a product of how this offense works. George Kittle, Patrick. That guy's pretty good. Yeah, like you knew this game was coming too. Like, there was some question about his production, because I think he only had like 180 yards coming into the game. But, I mean, he's open all the time. Everyone's open all the time.

It's just a great offense. And I'm not, and I'm not saying, that trying to downplay Purdy. I know like I've earned that. Like if someone's going to accuse me of doing that, I've earned it. I've earned those allegations. But it's like they can win at every level of the field with five different guys, which is crazy.

And this is the perfect coach to give this talent. I'm so happy that we're not wasting this talent on another coach because I don't think it looks like this unless it's Mike McDaniel. Even like Shaw McBay, I don't know if Sean McBay gets this out of this group of players. And then we haven't even talked about the defense. Fred Warner might have been the best player on the field. That's crazy.

I mean, you almost wonder if they should have saved that, the trick play for a game when it was going to be a little bit more meaningful, but it was fun to watch. Yeah. I mean, I didn't expect this game to be 42 to 10. So I wonder if Kyle Shannon on some level was like,

well, we practiced it. I had it in the bag. I guess we'll use it. It's fine. Super, Super Bowl's a while. They can whip it out back then.

My question about this game is, does this change your perception of how this team matches up with Philly? Because that's still the question. Like, them beating Dallas and making Dallas look bad and then bullying Dallas isn't a new development. We saw this last January. And then the next week, they kind of, I mean, obviously the purdy injury changed things. But like San Francisco was our Philadelphia was running whenever they wanted to on that front. And I think that's a question mark about the defense. But so far through five weeks.

the defense looks even better than it did a year ago, which is crazy to say because Damico Ryan's is gone, and he has a good defense in Houston now. So I can't even say like Demico Ryan's was being propped up by this defense because he's still doing good things in Houston, but it looks better without him, which is crazy to say. I certainly think Philly matches up with them a lot better than Dallas. I don't, right now I'd like San Francisco in that game.

Um, same. And I wouldn't really think, think that long and hard about it. But I just, Dallas was really, I mean, they could not bring anything matching San Francisco's level of physicality on either line, which, I mean, maybe offensively, that's maybe in terms of Dallas offense, that's not totally shocking. But even defensively, Michael Parsons was totally neutralized. I mean, he was like losing one on one again. excuse check. It just seemed like San Francisco could really take it to them in the trenches on both sides of the ball and Dallas didn't have an answer to that.

The Eagles can do that. The Eagles can play in that style of game and not be totally outmatched. If Philly's going to, you know, keep going two for five in the red zone and stuff like that, like you can't get away with that against 49ers. And so they have certain issues offensively. And defensively, because if there's anyone who can pick on those linebackers and safeties, like there are a lot of reasons that I would like San Francisco in that game. But I do think that stylistically, Philly would be better suited to play them than Dallas.

I almost think Philly is better than last year, too. I know like through the first four weeks, it wasn't, it didn't look like it. But the stats, like the stats, like they all. offensive stats even are basically the same as they were last year. And then this this game against the Rams is probably their best outing overall. But San Francisco, I think, has taken a bigger leap. Is there anyone in the NFC that they feel like, you know, they feel like the chiefs of the NFC to you right now? No, I think it's the 49ers and the Eagles. Like we can fast forward to the NNICT title game right now. And honestly, I don't know. We spent so much. Lionscored 42 points or

45? Yeah, but they, like, they fall in the same category as the Cowboys to me. Like, I need to see them win a big game before I can trust them to win a big game. I know, like, the Kansas City game happened in week one, and that was a really big game, especially for them, going into Arrowhead. But it wasn't like a great performance by them. And if the Chiefs receivers could catch the ball, they probably lose. I don't know. I still think it's the Eagles and the 49ers. And we spent so much time in the offseason talking about the disparity between the AFC and the NFC, is there an AFC team that can touch either of these two teams right now? Either of those.

I think the Eagles have more issues than you do. I think the Eagles have some defensive issues. I think they have issues, but I think they're going to solve the issues eventually. I think we're seeing them kind of creep towards that. And by January, this is going to be a different team than it has been. Does that involve trading for someone who can defend the middle of the field? No, they'll be fine.

They haven't had a good lineback. in like 10 years and they've won a Super Bowl and gone to another one. It's fine. I could play linebacker. We could be the nickel linebacker pairing and they'll make the the NFC title game. I think it's getting a little iffy. That would be, I would be happy to fast forward to that NFC title game. It sounds like a fun one. I would love to see these teams match up. I would love to see, you know, Jalen Hertz, doing it on the ground, doing it through the air, Brock Purdy going 18 for 22 for four touchdowns. He's going to win MVP.

Are you guys happy? It's okay. Hey, maybe 25s too low, but him winning MVP is more ridiculous than me ranking him 25th. And he's going to, like, it's going to be hard to argue against. There were three starters this week, entering this week, who had not thrown a pick. Do you know who they were? Yeah, Brock Purdy.

Josh Dobbs and C.J. Stroud. I didn't know if you get Dobbs. The Dobbs part of that is fun to me. Yeah, yeah, exactly. One, two, three. Check, check the ringer quarterback rankings later this week. We get our weekly Josh Dobbs shout out in every Sunday. We never talk about the cards.

We're talking about them today. Let's talk about the Cowboys a little bit. I mean, you say that this offense was just clearly going nowhere. So what's surprising about this? but they spent the off season overhauling the system. We have to hear about the Texas Coast offense every 10 seconds, even though that is not a thing. It's just simply not a thing.

It's also bad. You don't get a nickname if your offense is bad. You don't get to lose to the Cardinals and stuff, a nickname for your offense. But also, like, first of all, this offense is not fundamentally different from other buckets of offense enough to like merit its own name. Second of all, there's another team that plays in Texas closer to the coast than Dallas.

And they're running the 49ers offense. Like it's more West Coast. It's like, you're right. Chris Collinsworth. By the way, he was on one tonight. The man loves a bit. The Brock Birdie propaganda from Chris. I know Bertie played well.

But you would think he was like Patrick Mahomes out there. night. He throws like a wide open corner route and like Chris Collins versus like the processing. Look how fast he processed. I'm really glad that our listeners can tune into this show and just hear you working through this.

Yeah. I'm going to I'm going to cope my way through it. No one's going to outcoat me. It's okay. It's okay. The Texas coast, the whatever we're going to, it's just so stagnant. There's no creativity there's absolutely nothing going on with the intent to get some of their receivers open. It's just, I mean, like, they're, it's, it's, look, the Texas Coast offense is a bit constructed by Mike, Mike McCarthy.

So that DAC takes the blame when this, when this thing goes out. Like, that's, that's the only thing that's going on here. This is just branding. Yeah, that's what it is. That's what he's been doing for the past five years. He griffed his way into this job. with the PFF thing and the watching every play of the whatever season it was, which is like impossible, physically impossible to do in a year.

But it's like he stripped down all the good parts from Kellan Moore's offense and just left the bad parts. And that's what the offense is. It's like if a billionaire had bought a social media website, let's say they bought Twitter. And they took out all the good, and they took out a lot of the good features and promoted bad Texas coast. You know what happens with the Texas coast? That's where SpaceX launches rockets from. There's a connection there. Yeah, there's a metaphor there somewhere. It's not working out. This is the blue version of the offense. The callsworth bit that really got me was at the event when he was like, you know, they're still installing this Texas coast. They haven't even gotten to their five-step drop protections. Don't worry. We'll be back in December. It's all going to be.

That was insane. That was great. First of all, you install everything. Like, unless I am just fundamentally confused about how the coaching of this sport works, you install everything and then you like go back and practice it more. You don't just like go through an off season and only teach part of your offense. I don't know. They definitely have gotten to their seven step drop protections. And if they haven't, that's worse.

It's October. You can't just have not coached part of what you're doing. Like, I know things got bad for Dax in the second half. Like, this was, that was the worst half I've seen him play in years. But like in the first half, he played well in the first half, but it seemed like everything was just so hard. No easy buttons whatsoever. Yeah.

Even the touchdown, like the floater, the corner route, it was basically a Philip Rivers throw. That was a tough throw. And he was like throwing perimeter shots that were covered to the sidelines. it was rough. And like, what is Mike McCarthy bringing to this offense? How is he making Dak's job easier? Dak was in a machete fight with a butter knife.

It felt like in the first half. And looking over at this other, this other offense where it's like, I mean, I guess they don't use the most motion in the league anymore because of Miami, but they're moving everybody around and they're creating space and they're using all these different, all the different levels of the defense. And then he's just going out there and there's absolutely like nobody's moving. it's totally stagnant. And he just, yeah, he just has to like try to hit a pass to the outside where the guy's covered and you're hoping that that someone's going to make a play.

And it's not the first time that we've seen a Mike McCarthy offense look like this. It is continuing to lead DAC into the one thing that was a big issue last season was the interceptions. which they were already take, like, this is doing too much, the overhaul of the play caller, and we're going to run a new system, and we're going to change some of the terminology and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

That was already an overreaction to what happened last season because interceptions are fluky. It had never been a big problem for DAC before. Then all of a sudden he throws 10, and it's like, we got to change everything we do. When there's no, you can see that it's it's a product of the personnel and the offense itself and not just the quarterback play and decision making.

I don't think that he was he was innocent of some bad choices, but it wasn't something that made sense to go, we need to change what we do so that DAC will stop throwing these picks and this is what we should do to fix it. And then now he has a three interception game and it just, you know, it makes me wonder what's going to happen. because it seems like it shouldn't be like if you watch it, it's not on, it's not totally on him. But they've now gone through this weird iteration of, well, we need to change all this stuff so the DAC will stop turning the ball over. And then it does make me worried about the response to a game like this because it's like, well, we did everything to support the quarterback when that's not true. And then the results end up being the same and it just, it, that's when things like that. get messy.

Yeah, I think the first interception, like, inexcusable on Dax part. I haven't seen like the All-22, so I don't know what they did with the safeties or something. But like throwing a post route against middle of the field closed coverage just doesn't make sense. And I don't, I, maybe they rotate and I didn't see it. It was a disguise. But like the second interception and the third interception, we're basically the same

interceptions where the 49ers are just sitting on quick game while the Cowboys are trying to make this comeback. late in the game. And that, I mean, the fact that they could do that where they weren't worried about backing off the offense and like playing shell coverage and could sit on those shorter routes, that late in the game is kind of, it says something about the offense. And these are the same problems we saw at the end of the McCarthy era in Green Bay. Nothing has changed.

And it makes you feel like they kind of knew going in that San Francisco kind of knew going in that Dallas wouldn't have the answers because they, They did hit, Dax did hit Turpin on the deep touchdown where they got them for playing man. And it seemed like, okay, well, maybe, maybe there's an adjustment here. Maybe they go, okay, well, we can't just leave that. We can't just leave the corner on an island there. Let's give a little bit more support. And then maybe that opens up some of the quick games.

I mean, it's, like you said, it's sort of hard to tell in the broadcast copy, but it didn't seem like they responded at all. They just sort of said, cool. hit one probably not going to do it again. And I think something like that has to, that has to come from a mindset going into a game of they're not going to be able to do this and they're not going to be able to adjust. So I, I think like sort of sneakily, not only did we find out some things about the Cowboys,

we sort of found out some things about how San Francisco viewed, viewed them and viewed this opponent. Anything else? Yeah, like shout out Steve Wilkes, defensive coordinator. I kind of questioned him coming into the season. I thought he's been fantastic. You saw how he kind of took CD Lamb out of the game. The defense, like the cornerbacks, that's always been a question with San Francisco.

It seems like for the last couple of years and they just played lights out. They made every throw contest it. Just a great performance all around. Like I said earlier, special teams, offense, defense. It was probably a mistake for me to say that I didn't think the 49ers. could make a Super Bowl with Brock Purdy after having ranked them number one in the power rankings this week.

That's probably a mental error on my fault. Very avoidable. You know what? It was probably a mistake for me to have picked the Cowboys to make the Super Bowl. So. Yeah. I never bought him the Cowboys, so I have that still.

Mistakes happen unless you're Brock Purdy, who has still never lost a game. He started and finished. All right, let's take a quick break so that Stephen can walk this one off. We'll come back and we'll do winners and losers. Snap into action this NFL season with Fandul, America's number one sports book. Right now, new customers get $200 in bonus bets guaranteed when you place a $5 bet.

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See terms at sportsbook. Fandul.com. All right. We're back and it's time for winners and losers. Brought to you by Uber Eats. With Uber Eats, you can get anything you need delivered. Well, almost, almost anything. A new fantasy team?

No. Coffee beans, nachos supreme, and shaving cream? Yes. Uber Eats is an easy win. So let's talk about the other winners and losers this week. Stephen, start us off with a winner. All right, my first winner is the Eagles. They beat the Rams 23 to 14.

We've already kind of talked about how they won the game. But it seemed like in the second half, the game was close. And then the Eagles realized, oh, yeah, we could just run inside zone all day long and like just dump it off and just get to third and short. And like, that's it. Like the push at this point is a cheek coat. And I think we overuse that term a lot. Like we say it about play action and other stuff.

But like with them, it's like the math. is different for them. I know there's been a, there's been a lot of talk on Eagles Twitter about success rate, the stat and how the Eagles don't rank well in it. But I, I, I'm almost on the Eagles fan side on this one. Like, I, I tend to agree with Ben Solac when he has takes like that, but like, I think I'm on the Eagles fan side for this one just because like the formula doesn't really apply to them. Because for most offenses, for 31 offenses. Well, it's like you have to subtract a yard. That's not right. That's an incredibly rudimentary. If you get to third and four, like that's bad, according to success rate.

But for the Eagles, it feels like it's a first. It's fine. Like at one point, I think this was late in the game. It was like third and three or something, third and four maybe, and they wind up in it.

And I was like, oh my God, they're doing it on third and four. They just run it back to back and they get a first down. And I think that just explains this team, like why they're so good. They dominate the first four yards

after the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. And there's nothing you can do about it. And like you could say what you want about the second. the back seven, the linebacker group, like you said earlier. But they're so good at that base part of the game. Like the foundation of football is winning in the trenches and they're so dominant at it.

Like even the other weaknesses, I just don't think come into play very often. There were times when Jalen Hertz was holding onto the ball forever. It was like it was his second best game of the season, in my opinion. But there was like a stretch in like the second third quarter where it was a little shaky. but you could just tell that they were eventually going to figure it out. And that's what happened. They found a run game. Hurt started hitting on those passes.

They looked like last year. And then I think the defense is a little bit better with the new defense coordinator. Two things. First of all, just want to say this now. I am team brotherly shove. It's better than Tush Bush. I'm not. It's that that's disrespects like UTAP.

That disrespects Kansas State. They were doing it like 10 years ago. And they called it the Tushbush? No. Well, then why does it disrespect to them? Because it's like, because it has to do Philadelphia. It's really specific, yeah. You know what?

The Eagles are doing it now. And we're talking about it now. And I like brotherly shove. I don't feel the need to defend myself. Okay. Any further than that. It doesn't matter what it's called. It's unstoppable.

At one point, like, Jalen Hertz was crowd surfing over the pile to the first down. And like when I was, I was really funny. I wrote about the, uh, I wrote about it this. week. And I was looking at like the next gen data. They have like the miles per hour data. And I was trying to find if there was like a certain miles per hour that Jalen Hertz had to get up to for it to be successful. And there isn't like even when he gets stopped, somehow like he gets a second wind and just pushes the pile forward. It's it's impressive to watch. It's like every piece of it makes it perfect. And that's why no other team can replicate it. Like the way they do it after

hurrying up to the line, they don't huddle after it. And that's what makes it so hard to match up against. And then Jalen Hertz is obviously a superhero at quarterback. And other teams can't do it. Other teams can't do it anywhere near as well as they can. It's the idea that, I mean, I know the competition committee said this week that they're going to, going to take a look at it in the offseason, which was at least on the table last off season.

It didn't go anywhere. But I hope it stays. I'm a fan. And if other teams don't like it, they should figure out how to do it as well as the Eagles. I think it's pretty simple. And it did seem like when you wrote that great piece about it, the roots of the play are are true to football.

You had a good argument as to why the stance that it's not a football play is silliness. That's the first thing a defense has to worry about, right? It's like the quarterback getting the snap and just running forward. Like that. And then like everything comes from that. Like everything is based on that. Like where they put the defensive line, where they put the safeties, where they put the

cornerbacks. All of that is contingent on the like the quarterback not just calling hike. and just running forward. If they did that all the time, that's why Todd Brady was so good at it because he got like these regular fronts. It wasn't like how the Eagles do it. The Eagles, it's not even a sneak

because there's no element of surprise. Everyone knows it's coming. With Brady, that's why it was so effective with him because it's the element of surprise. And it doesn't matter for the Eagles. They just run over you. How did the Cooper Cup, Pooka, dream team look for?

for Los Angeles. It looked really good at first. Like in the first half, it was, it was mostly Cooper Cup. Like, anytime they needed a big play on third down, Cooper Cup over the middle, in breaker, every time. I think the Eagles finally adjusted on defense. Sean Decide, that was a great performance for him in the second half. And they forced them to throw outbreakers,

which are just tougher to complete. And you saw Stafford and Cooper Cup just weren't on the same page on those. Stafford was throwing it upfield. Cup was kind of breaking his route off with a sharper angle and it happened like three times I think it's going to be better going forward but the lack of

I would say reps like in the offseason showed up in this game in the second half and not so much in the first half sure could have been I mean it seems like a close score I think the Eagles were it seems like the Eagles were more in control

than a nine point win indicates but some of the red zone stuff kind of masks that. I've got a win for you. And it's going to Nathaniel Hackett. Nathaniel the Manial Hackett. Jets beat Broncos, 31 to 21. Hackett,

who was one of the captains for the game, which I didn't know if you could be as an offensive coordinator, but they made him a captain. Aren't coaches inherently captains? It was different. Like I just, I've never heard of that, but you know, whatever float your boat. He also got a game ball. This is so embarrassing.

But it's also kind of awesome because this was, of course, the big revenge match after Sean Payton said very mean things in USA today about Hackett's Broncos. And look, credit words do. his offense put up more than 400 yards against Denver. They were pretty dominant. I mean, this game was disgusting. There were five turnovers. It was just so messy.

But New York held the ball for 35 minutes. They ran all over, all over Denver. And the game ended on Bryce Hall's fumble return touchdown while the Broncos were trying to make a comeback. But everyone in New York is happy. And at a certain point, that's all that matters. I mean, everyone's doing memes. He's getting the postgame speech.

Everyone is thrilled that Zach Wilson did. I'm not quite sure what. He was there. He attended the game. He was there. He let the game clock run out at the end of the first half. He also threw a really terrible pass to Garrett Wilson. That was way far inside and got picked off by Patrick Sertan.

when they were trying to ice the game. But other than that, they won. And this goes down as a win for Hackett and just a massive, massive, unnecessary loss for Sean Payton for putting such a very silly target on his back, on his team's back. It was just arrogant.

It was silly. The Broncos are a total mess. And they have now lost to three of their former coaches and their former ball boy. Oh, man, the ball boy. dropped 70 on him too. That was the worst one. I don't know which is, I mean,

that's worse because of the number of points Miami scored against them. But I genuinely don't know if it's worse to lose to your former head coach or to your former ballboy because the ball boy is a little bit more tangential. But he's also a ball boy. But the coach is Nate Hackett. Yeah. It's definitely worse to lose to, to your former former. former coach when it's Nathaniel Hagget and you've said that he did the worst coaching job ever or

whatever and there were 20 dirty hands and blah blah blah blah blah blah so yeah not going great I feel like the thing we all kind of overlooked including myself after like the Aaron Rogers injury was that the Jets were kind of getting this done early last year when they still had Breece Hall in the lineup and when Breeze Hall went out that's kind of when everything fell apart and like Wilson hasn't been good but I feel like this version of Wilson is a little bit better than last year's version of Wilson. And maybe that's enough to keep them in the wildcar chase. He might have, do you think that he's decided just like, who cares anymore?

Because when they've been at their worst, it's when they're trying to, they're trying to make Zach Wilson like Jimmy Garoppolo or something. And they're trying to make him play this like contained style. and he's just not like they're trying to say Zach don't make mistakes, but they're trying to do that by being like, well, short passes, just quick completions. And he just, that's not what he's supposed to be doing. And now it seems like they just let him sort of sling it. And there are three disastrous plays a game.

But sometimes there are four good ones. And then Breeze Hall breaks a 70 yard touchdown run and you're playing the Broncos defense and you can run all over them. so it's okay. Yeah. I mean, I think that is the formula this year. It kind of sucks, though, knowing like the Jets were good enough to be a contender if Aaron Rogers does stay healthy.

Because I think that's what this first month has proven. Even as ugly as, like, the Patriots game was, they almost beat the Chiefs. They go to Denver, which is a tough place to play. I know Denver has been a mess this year, but that's a tough place to win early on in the season. And they get that way. in another universe where Aaron Rogers is healthy.

Like this team is maybe we're talking about it as one of the better teams in the AFC, but that's obviously not going to happen. But also isn't the Rogers factor why also why we're having this conversation? Because I don't know what happened to the moment a couple weeks ago when they were adding Trevor Simeon and he was supposed to come in and save the day, which was maybe already a little bit rich. But I didn't know that we were just going to do the Zach Wilson thing now. And I'm not sure that what's happened over the last couple of weeks.

I'm not sure that like almost beating the chiefs, but not. And beating the Broncos defense is probably the worst in the league. I'm not sure that should alter the direction that you're trying. trying to go with your season. It seemed like there was a moment before those things happened where the Jets were at least trying to improve their quarterback play a little bit. And now it feels like that's that's out the window. Simian's on the practice squad. Maybe he'll get elevated at some point. Maybe not. Not trying to make the argument here that if they activate Trevor Simeon, all woes will be solved. But I do think that the direction that they were going to

to, you know, try to make it through without Rogers. I think it's changed over the last couple of weeks, or at least it feels like it's changed over the last couple of weeks, and I'm not sure that's a good idea. Yeah, I think, like, the danger is them kind of falling into the same trap they did last year when Wilson, like they were winning with Wilson in the lineup, but it was very clear that he was holding them back. And it kind of took them a little too long to realize it.

And I definitely think there's a danger of that because he follows up, what was maybe the best performance of his career last week in a loss with a win. He didn't play well. And he almost threw the game away, but he did win the ball game. And it seems like that's been enough to appease Robert Sala in the past, at least last year. And you do wonder if they're going to get complacent if they continue to be competitive slash win games. Well, but also they don't, I mean, what are they, because they have, they have, they have completely tied themselves, themselves in a knot because they have this 40-year-old quarterback who's who's dealing with a season-ending injury, but who is like they have

anointed as the most important person in their franchise. And he's who he is. So what are you going to do? You're going to bring in somebody actually good who's. What a novel concept. But like they can't. How are they going to do that? I mean, I think it's too late at this point. But it's hard to look at. Do you think it was too late, two weeks? ago because even then like I how and I like I've said they have to do it they have to do it they have to do it and part of me like still feels like that look the Vikings went and lost another game trade for Kirk but you you can't how are they going to do it because Rogers won't he's he'll flip out if they add someone who's too good someone who's too good is going to cost an amount

that is going to have some sort of bearing or indication on maybe what next year looks like, even if that's not as a replacement for Rogers. That in and of itself feels unthinkable after what they did this entire off season. But at the same time, that's a horrible injury to come back from. I know he says he can do it in four months and he's got the springiest Achilles that ever lived. And it's a, you know, revolutionary surgery. and we're listening to all the dolphin sex noises that we can find and everything's going to be fine. But he doesn't know that.

And it's ridiculous. And maybe it'll happen. But I don't really think so. And I just, I can't believe the Jets have put themselves in this position. I just, I'm sorry, no other team in the entire league would wind up in, in this predicament. It's not their fault. But it, it just somehow makes. cosmic sense that it's the Jets we're here.

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but like, can you imagine where they would be if they had like Josh Dobbs? Another Josh Dobbs shot out. But like, I feel like the default, the default option for the backup

is always like a case keenum type. And I don't understand why it's not a Josh Dobbs type. Why isn't it someone where you can at least fake a good run game with them? Like a quarterback that you could just call Zone Read with. And I guess you can do that with Zach Wilson. you're not so much worried about protecting him, like keeping them in the lineup. But like you can fake an offense.

In Zach Wilson, I mean, some of those, he made some throws over the middle today that were genuinely like the timing was there and he's not afraid to just let it go and sometimes it doesn't work out well. But it,

he's going to make some plays. It's just that thing that happened at the end of the first half where he just didn't know what the clock was doing and they were. set up to kick a field goal and he just let the half end. Yeah. Like you can't do that. You just can't do that.

You can't have a quarterback who's going to do that. I guess it shouldn't be the hardest thing to coach, but it's his, his, it's a little bit different from his internal clock in terms of how individual plays are developing, but it's just his sense of the game is, is not there. I think that's enough, enough jet stock. Yeah. But you know he doesn't. make that mistake. Brock Purdy. Brock Purdy.

Brock Purdy kneels in time. I mean, look, the 49ers can win a Super Bowl with Brock Party. The Jets could win a Super Bowl with Brock Purdy. Okay, now. The Jets could win a Super Bowl at Brock Party. I'm like convinced of this. The Jets couldn't win a Super Bowl

with Aaron Rogers, but now you're saying they can win with Brock Party? I really think they could have. Don't gas like me. He's never lost a game, Stephen. Of course they would win a Super Bowl with him. he can't lose. He's a perfect quarterback. I'm speechless.

How about a loser then? All right. My first loser is the New York Giants. And specifically, and we talked about this offline. I don't know if I want to say it. I'm refusing to call him Wink Martindale anymore. He's Don.

He's Don Martindale. He has to earn back the nickname. The crazy thing is I was, so what I was expecting, because I didn't watch the game live. And I was expecting when I looked at the stats that the Giants were good, like blitzed a lot and did the typical wink Martindale thing and gave up a bunch of points. But they didn't blitz. Only one cover zero call.

And it was against the run. Oh my gosh. So this wasn't the typical Don Martindale, not saying the name. He's no longer winked. Wasn't his typical game plan. And like I feel like I can criticize him either way. He's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Either he blitzed and I get to make front of him.

How is he going to get wink back? Or he got scared. He's no longer wink. Like he's not even doing the thing anymore. But this was a, this was like a bad, you watch the tape. I got, I was able to watch the tape before the, before you recorded. It wasn't a great game for two. And I think that's really the main takeaway here is like we saw to be shaky in the same

ways that he was shaky last year. And I don't think like even beyond the two interceptions, which were really bad. I don't think he played. well. Like he missed some throws. He didn't, he didn't make the best decisions. There were a couple plays where he had an open guy and he threw it to a covered guy. But the interceptions are really concerning to me just because they look like last year's interceptions. And the first one in the red zone, it's like a like a stick concept where they're, they've created a horizontal stretch on the slot defender. So they have like a guy breaking outside and they have a guy running like a little

hitch route and the defender's in between the two. And like Tua kind of misreads it and throws to the inside guy and then it gets tipped up and he gets intercepted when the guy that was breaking out was open. And then on the second one, it was kind of a similar thing, but instead of just one guy being open, like literally everyone else on the field, every other Dolphins receiver was wide open and he threw to the covered guy. And he overthrows Jalen Waddle and it gets picked off and it gets returned. Like, it's still the same question with them.

The offense has such a high ceiling. And you saw it early on because they were just throwing bubble screens. Like in the first half, that's all they were throwing. And they were going for like 40 yards of pop. And they got Devin A-Chain going on the outside zone game. And that was enough to kind of carry them over the line. But Tua, like in between those plays was not playing well. And I just wonder if that was against a better team what the final score looks like as a result.

But against the Giants, you have such a margin for error. And this team, and the defense did play well. But I just don't think we saw the mistakes get capitalized on, but against a better team, like we saw against Buffalo, they will get capitalized on. So when you say it's still the same thing, you think. I think it's that he's not getting through his reads fast enough to understand what, what is available to him on any given play. No, it's predetermining what he's going to do before the snap. Like my thing, like, it's kind of a joke, but it's kind of not a joke that it's

performative processing that he's doing. Like he'll look off the safety and then the guy won't move and he still throws it. Like I don't think that's post-snap processing. I think he had a plan going into the snap. He executes it. Defense doesn't react and he still does the thing. Takes the snap. Look over here.

look over there, throw exactly, or I plan to throw the ball. Yeah, that was working in the first month, but you see defenses start to attack. And I thought you really saw it in the Buffalo game, how Buffalo kind of read his eyes. They weren't taking that bait, and they were like ending up in the throwing windows. And you saw a similar thing with the Giants,

after the Giants kind of caught on to what they were doing early with the perimeter screens. It would be a concerning game if I was a Dolphins fan. The thing you do like is that it didn't matter because the run game was so good. they added six EPA on the ground game alone. They added another seven EPA on passes behind the line of scrimmage.

And then every other play type was basically like minus 14 EPA. So those those like scheme that plays really save the day for them. What happens when they play a better team? And the margin for air is bigger. That's the question with this team. And it's the same question we were asking last year. They have the Eagles in two weeks. They have the Panthers next week.

So might have to wait a little bit. But week seven, Sunday night football, it'll be a good test for them. And the defense did play well. I only flipped over to this game one time. I will confess, and I heard the announcer say, Daniel Jones running for his life. And I figured I kind of knew all I needed to know. Yeah, it was your typical Giants game. Every Giants game has been the same.

They're so deeply broken. Speaking of deeply broken, my next loser is the New England. Patriots, who last week we talked about because they had the worst loss of the Belichick era and Mac Jones got benched because the game was out of hand. Well, this week, they had the second worst loss of the Belichick era and Mac Jones got benched because the game was out of hand. And Bill and the post game press conference kept talking about how they had to quote, start over, would not elaborate on what that meant. But things are pretty bleak there. They're one and four. They share the worst record in the AFC with the Broncos.

The Giants cards, bears, Panthers in the NFC are either 1 in 4 or 0 and 5.5. Keep pounding. I cannot see them picking up Mack Jones's fifth year option. Like the specifics of the game, I mean, we can go through it if you want. They could not protect. They could not get a run game going. Mack Jones's only passing play seems to be a jump ball to Devante Parker. The defense did not live up to the task of showing something in a week after having some key guys go down

with injuries, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I really don't think that we need to talk about it all that much. The question that's sort of coming into focus is, you know, we've talked about the decision around keeping Belichick's, pushing him out, something happening there, going from unthinkable to sort of thinkable. but this is kind of turning into a season that is so bad where they might end up with a pretty high draft pick out of it. And as we know, this is a really good, good draft to be in the market for a quarterback in. And I guess this is me maybe changing my perspective a little bit on

the coaching decision because I don't think if you, you know, if the people, Patriots end up with an opportunity to draft, even if it's not Caleb Williams or Drake May, but just to draft a top quarterback prospect, I don't think this is the coaching infrastructure I want developing a guy anymore. And it's not because I think you look at this game and go, oh, Belichick doesn't know how to coach. I think if they push Bill out, you know, if they go to him and say you're going to have to give up personnel control and he's like, you're kidding

me, I'm not going to take orders from Matt Groh, no thank you. And Bill ends up the coach of the Chargers or something. He's going to be good. There are going to be moments when it's like, oh my God, how did you let Bill Belichick get away if that happens, which I still

kind of don't think it will. But there was a moment in this game where they punted their in Saints territory. They're down by 24. they punt on fourth and three. And it's just a ridiculous decision. It's a non-competitive decision. And then after the game,

his explanation was that he wouldn't go for it because they're not a good team on third and fourth downs. And they're not a good team on any downs right now. Like, it's just not, you know, I don't think he, I don't think he has the mindset you need to coach a team that is often going to be the work

team on the field in the games that they're in. I don't think that his his conservatism lower case C, which is something that's always been a part of his philosophy, but I also think was sort of strengthened by two decades with a with a quarterback who basically made it so that you just needed to not lose games and you're always going to have a certain amount of advantage. I don't think I don't think he has the, it's just taught him and it's, it's entrenched in him so much the idea of, first, you have to not make mistakes. And when you have a young team and a team that's going to be outmatched a lot of the time, you're going to have, you have to live with some mistakes and you have to take some risks and you have to go for it. And you have to invite a certain amount of variability because otherwise you're just going to lose.

And this is obviously, look, everything has gone wrong. They're in a bad situation. They're clearly like, it's clearly a tense environment. And I think in that type of environment, things go from bad to worse really quickly. And that seems to be happening. but it just really made me think at a slightly new way about if this is the brain trust that would make sense to develop another young quarterback and in part because Mac Jones might have been the wrong pick to begin with but we're at the end of the rope and they got

basically nothing out of it. You know, it seems like they're getting basically nothing out of his rookie contract. Yeah. I mean, it's getting hard to defend Belichick. against those allegations. But the one thing I would say, the one thing you can push back against is the fact that, yes, they haven't won without Tom Brady, but they did develop quarterbacks.

They did develop young quarterbacks. Like Jacoby Brissette is a decent quarterback. Jimmy G. was a Pro Bowl quarterback who got paid the richest contract in NFL history at one point, just months after getting traded from New England. So they have developed young quarterbacks. The difference between those,

two quarterbacks and this quarterback is they were talented physically. So I think that is a, I think that's a critical difference. But I also think that they developed them not in the line of fire. And I think there's something about he can't, he can't deal with the mistakes. And I think that they're, they're proving that they let things go from bad to worse because I don't know that. the deficiencies and the messiness are treated as learning opportunities. It's you fumble, you sit. And that's a certain type of coaching that, first of all, is a little out of style. And also is a lot more effective when Tom Brady is to at least some degree buying into it.

I'm just not sure it works. There have been all these moments when it seems like Belichick's evolving his style a little bit. But when I really think about it, it's all right, he's opened up to giving a couple veterans days off. He answered a question about Taylor Swift the other week. And it just kind of stops there. I'm just, I'm not sure he's a good coach. for a bad team right now, and they're a bad team.

I think if you went to a good team, he would be, you know, maybe not every bit, but he would be the same guy who could, I mean, he should go to the Chargers now that I'm thinking about it. Yeah, he should definitely go. They'd win a Super Bowl. He would probably win a Super Bowl. I think there's something to what you're saying, though. I do think, like, he's trying to win games in a way that's not conducive to Max's development.

Like, I think that's a fair thing to say. Like, not going forward on fourth down because he thinks that gives them the best chance to win. Whether you believe in that or not, I don't believe in that. I don't think you believe in that. But he's trying to win games the way they were winning games when Brady was young. And, like, that's just not going to happen. They're not good enough to do it. And quarterback, like, league has changed.

Quarterback development is way more important at this point than I think it was at that point. And I think it was just a little bit easier to develop quarterbacks behind the scenes, because you had more practice time. You had more meeting time. It was just easier. And Belichick has complained about that plenty. But it's the way it is. And also, I mean, the first, the first, you know,

four years of Brady happened in a league where offense was not what it is now. And the need for a quarterback and an offense to be a juggernaut or to be competitive, not competitive. They were very much competitive. That's not what I'm trying to say. But to be the thing that wins. games for a team was just, it was just less essential. But old habits die hard.

Think about like the quarterbacks that were winning Super Bowls around the time that Patriots kind of rose up. It's like Kurt Warner was bagging groceries like a couple of years before. Trent Dilfer won the Super Bowl right before they win the Super Bowl. In the second Super Bowl, they beat Jake Delome, who was like a journeyman backup before getting to Carolina. It's a different league. There was Peyton Manning, yes.

But once you got past paid man. like the next best quarterbacks were like Donovan McNabb who was like a very, very good quarterback, but not Josh Allen, you know, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, that type of quarterback. So it's just so hard to develop a quarterback like that. I mean, honestly, like maybe the mistake was cutting Cam Newton and not letting Mack learn from the bench during that rookie year. There's there's more than one mistake here. Right. And like I certainly don't want to be writing the ballot of the ways the Patriots have failed Mac Jones. But I do think that there's some stuff going on here that it makes me think about,

okay, it's not just can they get someone more talented, someone who's not physically limited in that role and have it all, all be different and all be better. There are some things going on here that would still worry me, even if the quarterback was more talented. Even, even like that first year, I feel like that wasn't a conducive environment for development. Like when you think about how they kind of held Max's hand and like the type of offense they ran, it didn't seem, and maybe they did trust him beyond the scenes. And like, in order to start him week one and cut Cam Newton, like you have to have some level of trust in a rookie quarterback. But like that was a very, there wasn't an adult quarterback offense. They

held his hand through a lot of things. And we haven't seen him get better in the NFL. And they weren't even, you know, they weren't really planning for him to. I mean, it was a real competition, but Cam was winning that until he got COVID, missed like joint practices. And then it all kind of just just spiraled. So there was a lot that happened on the fly. I mean, it, and also, I don't care who the quarterback was there were going to be limitations in that offense. Then you get to the second year. And, and we obviously don't need to.

to delve into the Matt Patricia and Joe judge of it all. But it just has not been, it has not been a good environment to develop in. And they probably also weren't developing the right guy. Yeah. And if both of those things are going wrong, it's definitely going to be bad. But I also feel like there's stuff happening here

where even if you take the player out, I'm not sure that it would all be fixed. Yeah. I think that's fair. All right, let's do a winner. All right. My winner is the Cincinnati Bengals, 34 to 20. They scored over 30 points. They hit on deep balls.

Jamar Chase three touchdowns after complaining about being open and I guess not getting the ball. I kind of watched this like on a second screen. And every time I looked like the Bengals were getting an explosive play or like a good game. And I expected to look at the box score and be like the Bengals are back. Like you saw Joe Burrough scrambling. You saw him hit on the deep ball. But they averaged 4.8 yards per play. Arizona average 5.2.

they average negative EPA per play. So I think the bangles are back talk. Maybe we need to pump the brakes on that, but it does look better. And that's a good side. Like Joe Burrow is moving. He's avoiding the rush. I didn't see any ill effects from like him getting sacked a couple times. And then the downfield throw to Jamar Chase is possibly the best throw I've seen him make as an NFL quarterback in terms of like arm strength and arm talent.

it was legitimately like 55 yards on the line. I don't want to say perfect throw because he kind of made Jamar Chase adjust his route. But it was a strong throw. So he looks healthy now. And if he's healthy, yes, there are still issues with the offense. But like we've seen this team figure it out the last two years. And if Burroughs healthy, they're going to figure it out. And T. Higgins is going to come back eventually.

So I'm not so worried, but I just don't think like this game was the sign that it seems to be, like, if you don't watch the game. Okay, counterpoint. The Bengals are back, actually. Joe Burr can move. He beat the Grinch coach. And one of the better quarterbacks in the NFL, Josh Dobbs.

Third Josh Dobbs shout out. It's amusing. He was top 10 in EPA coming into the game. You don't need to tell me. I'm not throwing shade at Mr. Joshua Dobbs. But Joe Burrow looks, he said that during the week that his calf felt better than it had felt since he injured it.

And it certainly looked like it. And you saw more of this game than I did, and it sounds like it wasn't perfect. But if he is healthy, then they can figure it out. They got the deep ball going to chase. They got Burrow moving around. And as far as I'm considered,

that is the thing that they needed to do to set the floor of, okay, they probably have to, you know, they're missing tea, have some stuff with how the run game works that they need to work out. Let's see if they can make the adjustments. Don't really know why they always seem to have these slow starts and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the thing that was going to sink them was if he didn't, didn't recover from this and was nursing this injury week after week after week.

And for a while it felt like that's where it was going. I mean, of course, you know, there can always be a setback, but he looked a lot better. I mean, even just that, that scramble for the first down, he had barely done anything like that. I mean, he'd barely, he had not scrambled for more than like a yard, I think, in any of the games prior to this. So not a perfect performance, but I would be really, really encouraged. Yeah, and like Zach Taylor called a better game, especially on that first drive. they just did more things, a little bit more at Pistol, a thing that we were calling for. The Pistol!

Seven snaps this week. Brilliant. They're not doing one per week anymore, which is good. So, yeah, I think they're going to figure things out. The run game is still iffy. It's the same problems they had last year. It's just that you had the burrow thing on top of it. And if the burrow thing is starting to go away, which it looks like it is.

The only concern is like it's the calf thing and it could linger and you never know, like, when it's going to pop up again. but for now, if they continue on this pace, I think it's like what Burrough said after that Rams Monday night game, it's going to get better and better every week. And then by the time you get to January, assuming they make the playoffs, because they are, they are kind of,

they've fallen behind over the first month. So they do have some work to do. But as long as they get there, they get into January, they're going to be a dangerous team. Well, and in some ways, they actually kind of got some help from my next winner,

who are the first place AFC, North Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh Steelers who beat the Ravens 17 to 10. They're going into their buy. They're 2 and 0 with wins against the Ravens and the Bengals. So the Steelers have worked themselves into an enviable place in the division. Not going to pretend this was a dominant performance. The Ravens have to be absolutely kicking themselves after outgaining Pittsburgh, 244 yards to 88 in the first half.

Um, they just, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they'd be able to, they, they'd, they'd be able to, they'd, they'd, they'd have been a touchdown. Um, it was probably the worst of the mall was just crazy. It's a blocked punt for a safety. Um, Hill had the fumble in the first quarter. They'd turned it over on downs when they could have kicked a field goal at the end of the half. Lamar had two turnovers in the fourth quarter. there's just a zillion different ways in which this score is not totally representative of who was generally speaking moving the football in this game and who wasn't, but a win is a win. And the interesting thing, though, is that I do think there's some, if you're the Bengals and you're starting to think about, can we catch up, right? You're probably happy with this result, even though Pittsburgh has the win over you too. because the Ravens still look like the more look like the team that you're going to have to beat at a certain point.

And getting them with another game in the loss column is probably more helpful than the Steelers. So maybe the real winner here is the Bengals as well, which is not to say that there was nothing positive to come out of this for the Steelers. Joey Porter Jr. had the interception and was, you know, he yelled at OBJ to go be a family man, which seemed very funny to me. Really good week for like for Steelers Smack Talk after Patrick Queen shared that story of his rookie season, Mike Tomlin yelling, you're not a raven at him on the sideline. That's so funny. It's so funny. Because you just know like to Mike Tomlin, that was like the ultimate insult. And should it be because it's not his team?

Like, you don't live up to my opponent's standards. There's like a respect between the organizations, though, I feel like. Yeah. Yeah. He's basically saying, like, you don't belong in this rivalry. It's a very good dick. It's pretty on a linebacker. Go be a family fan.

It's so good. Oh, my God. This game was so weird. It felt like every time I looked up at it, the Ravens were in the red zone. Like, literally every time. And then they would turn the ball over. And the score would just never change, though. It was always 10 to 3 and they were in the reds up.

It's like an oasis. So I went to Ravens training camp and I asked Kyle Hamilton like, what does the team have to do this year to avoid what happened last year? And he said finish games. And so far they have not finished games. The two losses were both just wacky losses where they had multiple opportunities to end it. And they did not cash in all. on one of those opportunities. This can't possibly keep happening.

It's getting harder to trust this team. Like, it's talented. Like, if we get this team's A game ever, they could win a Super Bowl, but we haven't seen it. The world would never be the same, but it may never happen. I don't know.

I'm not there yet. This is too weird. There's just, I mean, the ball was in his hands. And then it just, and I know that, that we've had this conversation before, but I just think this was,

I do think this was fluky. Yeah. They're the East Coast Chargers. They are the East Coast Chargers. I don't know how they, like, I guess it's because of all the injuries. Somehow they managed to fly under the radar with that, but they are the East Coast Chargers. That's bad. Will you give us another loser?

All right. My last loser is the Vikings. They're continuing the bit. They've leaned into the bit even harder. They fumble on the first offensive snap. They're now up to eight fumbles lost. They had eight fumbles lost all of last year. They had zero losses in.

very famously had zero losses in one possession games. And now they're losing every one possession game. It's the complete opposite of last year's season. And I swear, I swear they're a better team than they were when they won 13 games a year ago. This is a better football team. They played the Eagle stuff. They played the Chiefs tough. They should have beaten the bucks who looked like a team that might make the playoffs.

This is a good football team. I don't care what anybody says. I don't care what Ben Solac says in our Slack channel when I rank them in the top 15. They're a good football team. That's a good point. All I'm thinking of right now is the odds of a Baker Mayfield, Brock Purdy at FC playoff game. Oh, it's going to be awful. The story of this game is Spags. Justin Jefferson, a total non-factor, he had six targets and only one of them happened on

third down. This was like the ideal game plan. You always see, you see these teams play the Vikings every week and on third down, Justin Jefferson is getting open and he's being single covered. And you like just want to rip your hair out. And you're like, why aren't you putting two people on him? You can put two people on him. And the chiefs did that in this game early on. And then by the end of it, he goes out with a hamstring injury. And then that's when like, things get difficult. Because Jordan Addison was playing well because they were giving a lot of attention to Jefferson. And then Addison was the open guy. Ironically, on Addison's touchdown, he ended up being the guy that was doubled and Jefferson was single covered

and Addison still gets the ball and gets the touchdown. But like for the rest of the game, that was what was happening. The attention on Jefferson led to all of the other production in the passing game. But I thought it was a great plan by Spags. I thought Mahomes, I don't know what the stat line looks like in terms of like EPA, but one of his more impressive games. There were like a couple of plays where he threw it into coverage similar to the throws we saw last week against the Jets. But other than that, it was just like trick shot after trick shot, just creating out of structure. Another masterclass by him, even if the stats don't show it. And then Isaiah Pacheco, same thing that we were saying last year, the toughness, being able to turn three-yard

gains into nine-yard gains just repeatedly has just changed this offense and made things easier for everybody. How did Flores attack them? It was like a typical Flores game plan against Mahomes. Like this was low-key a Mahomes revenge game. Flores gave him his first loss in the regular season as the Patriots defensive coordinator. And then his first postseason lost later in that year in the ASC title game. And it was like the similar type of game plan where they were putting a lot of people on the line, but they weren't necessarily blitzing.

They were kind of dropping off and getting him to think they were blitzing. But I just thought this game, it was kind of cool because you're seeing this matured version of Mahomes react way differently than he did. 2018. But he still has like that that off structure thing he can go to. And he did it a bunch in this game. And I thought that was the difference in it. All right. Can I close us out? Yeah. Let's do it. Last loser. The bills. Struggling in London. They lose 25 to 20 to the Jaguars. This was the early game across the pond. Big topic was that they flew out on Friday. Josh Allen was, at least according to Stefan Diggs, a sleepyhead the day before when they had press

conference and stuff and he felt very jet lagged. And they looked like it when they came out. Offense had four straight punts to start the game. Overall, the bills had 11 penalties. They really didn't wake up until the fourth quarter, basically, at least offensively, when they went on two touchdown drives when they were trying to come back and get back in the game quickly. And they had just absolutely no run game.

They did finish with 388 total yards. but only 29 on the ground. So it was just a messy performance for them on the offensive side of the ball. And then defensively, the story coming out of it really even more than the degree to which they struggled offensively. Because some of that I do think is just they played the travel wrong. It was messy. But losing Matt Milano on a defense that just lost. Trinavius White

without Greg Rousseau and Shaq Lawson in this game. They did get Von Miller back, but they'd been missing him too. Matt Milana going down, and he fractured his leg and is also getting tests to confirm what they're worried is an ACL injury, which would be, you know, pretty much

certainly season ending, is that's the one that I don't know that they can get by without. Because the way that he enables them to defend the middle of the field, particularly with an eye towards the dolphins being their main competition in the division and then certainly some of their main competition in the AFC in general. He's so critical to what they're able to do to stop them and is just the core of their defense

in general. And so this is not to say that this injury like sinks the bills and they can never recover, but it's a real blow because that's that's the guy out of anyone that you wouldn't want them to have to play without. And it seems like, you know, we'll wait for the final result, but it seems like they're probably going to be without him for the year. And I do think that that changes at least how they match up with Miami to some degree. Yeah, it looks like it's a leg fracture and maybe a knee injury.

So it seems like he's going to be out for the year. And I agree with you. It doesn't totally sink them. But I do think it reduces their margin for injury. Like if they lose one of these safeties and that's already been a problem, keeping those two guys, like a hide and Jordan Poirer in the lineup this year. I think it all falls apart because Milano last year when they suffered all these injuries was the glue guy. He was the guy that was there and kept it all together.

You could say Edmonds was also there and he's gone now. He's in Chicago. Bernard's been playing well. But yeah. But these guys, like their defense starting to drop like flies. It feels like last year, and you do wonder, like, if something goes wrong on offense, where we get like the same sort of decline as we saw last year in the second half where just everything feels like it's on Josh Allen to create. And he kind of feels that pressure and starts leaning into his more chaotic tendencies that it could end up being last year. I hope that doesn't happen because this team just looks so much better over the first month.

Yeah, they're so fun when they're good. Injuries. Yeah, injuries just suck. And like-injuries are the worst. I'm starting to get like pissed off about like the artificial turf discussion. It's so ghoulish on the NFL's part that this isn't like that there isn't already a rule change that's been implemented where like you have to have natural grass. And I know it's expensive. But the data like the research is expensive.

Oh my goodness. They have plenty of money. That's what they're going to say though. They're going to say it's expensive. I know they have plenty of money. They're billionaires. They didn't become billionaires by making good decisions for everyone. But it's getting hard to argue against this.

And we're seeing it every time. Terran Johnson, after the game, just, like, slam the turf and, like, complained about it. We're putting our, like, these players, like, at the end of the fourth quarter, I wanted Trevor Lawrence and Josh Allen to be off the field. I was like, one of these guys is going to get hurt. And it's going to ruin the season. And it feels like every time there's a major injury, it's on this stuff. It's on this artificial turf.

And also the league's response is always, well, we have data. that shows that it's not actually more dangerous when so first of all I think the players association disagrees with that and and I don't really know what the I don't know what the specific differences in the data sets are but I also don't really think it matters because if your entire player population or the majority of your player population who are the people who actually have to go out and and risk bodily harm on these services if they are all, like the turf is worse, we get hurt more on the turf, the turf is bad. Forget even just be a good person, listen to them.

That should be where the conversation stops. Isn't that in and of itself something that you would want to factor in as like a competitive advantage or as just something that's going to help these teams that are more relevant and a better product and better at making gobs and gobs of money if they're, quarterback's ligaments are intact and their players stay healthy and they stay competitive, wouldn't you want to take into account that they are more comfortable on a certain type of playing service that they're not more worried that they're going to hurt themselves? Like, even from a purely ghoulish, self-interested point of view, it is crazy that the players

writ large are just like, we don't like turf. and the league is like, well, actually, turf is fine. It's nuts. It's just nuts. Yeah, and like Kelsey almost got hurt on Minnesota's turf, which is like so bad that they're replacing it last year. And it's apparently like the worst type of turf. I don't know, man. I don't know what to say about it.

Like I feel like it's such a black and white issue. Like there's an easy answer here. This shouldn't be up for debate. And for some reason it is. And the reason is obvious it's money. But I don't know. I don't know how much. Like, it just simply cannot.

It can't be that much. It just can't be. Like, I'm sorry. There is. And like, the other argument like teams will make is their climate might not be conducive for having turf. It's going to, like real grass. It's hard to upkeep in certain climates.

But that's why we should play every game indoors from now on. Stop. Stop advancing your propaganda. Every single one of these teams. who has a facility that's in one of those climates. First of all, most of them are indoors anyway. Second of all, all of those teams water the heck out of all of the greenery around their facilities. All of these teams are so bullshit.

Jaguars. Still made some mistakes. Now leading the league with 10 drops, although I think that was before the Ravens game. and Trevor fumbled twice in Bill's territory. I'm sort of split on this game because I think they, they looked pretty good and there was a huge reversal on third downs, where Trevor was eight of nine, 89 yards, completion percentage above expectation of 22.8.

So third and fourth downs had been really bad for them the first month of the year, and that turned around. He played really well, and they did all of the hard stuff. So I think in a way, this is a good game for the Jags because it kind of shows you how they're going to have to win

against good teams. Because Trevor and Ridley were winning tons of one-on-one matchups on the outside. Ridley had seven catches for 122. he was matched up on Kair Elam a lot and definitely dominated that. It didn't look easy.

Like they had, you know, he's got to make those tough throws. And Ridley had to make those contested catches and they had to do it on the outside. But you do get the sense that if this Jags team is going to go far, they are going to have to win a lot of games that way. At Dan also ran pretty well, 23 for 132 and two touchdowns. one broke up a bill's comeback attempt in the fourth quarter,

which was really only time when Buffalo was really moving the ball. So I thought they looked good. I mean, they were definitely, offensive line was definitely affected by Buffalo's pass rush. And it was definitely positive to see them doing so much better in the, in the third down situations. Because I just, I do think that if they're going to make, a real playoff push.

They're not, I don't think this offense can really count on always staying ahead of the sticks and being in, you know, advantageous situations. They're going to have to just like make the throws and win a lot.

And they definitely did that. And they did that against an injured defense, but still a good defense. It felt like they were putting more on Trevor's plate this game. Whereas I thought in the past, they were, it's like they were trying to play to get into third and three. It was almost like the Eagles offense this year where they wanted to, they wanted like do quick game early and try to run the football and it's not really working.

And that puts Trevor into these like obvious passing downs where like on Sunday, I felt like they were moving the pocket early. They were doing play action. They were taking shots down field on early downs on first and second down when it's easier to throw. And you kind of saw it at work. I know like the drives didn't always end well, but there were drives where Trevor looked like. like one of the better quarterbacks in the NFL, like, look like an elite quarterback. And they never ended with points.

But I think, like, Trevor is showing that you can put more on his plate and the offense will be just fine. And the offense will actually be better if you do it. And I'm hoping that this game will kind of flip the switch for Doug Peterson and they'll realize that going forward. That would be a huge. That would be a win to come out of this for sure. Thanks again to our sponsor Uber Eats.

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All right, take one more quick break and let's get to the take purge. Yep. All right, we're back. Let's purge some takes and get out of here. Do you want to kick us off, Stephen? Yeah, my first take was going to be based on the turf thing, but then we got into that last segment. So my backup take is that Greg. Olson is the best color commentary person in the NFL right now.

I wouldn't even want to purge that. I think that's a, that's, I would, I would keep that take. But I feel like there's flashier names out there. Like Collinsworth obviously gets the Sunday night game. And I think Collinsworth is still very good. But I, I just think Greg Olson treats the audience with, he treats them like they're adults who can understand certain concepts that other commentators don't talk about. Like today in the Rams Eagles game, he was talking.

about how the Eagles needed to change their leverages in coverage because the Rans kept beating them on inbreakers. And leverage is such like an important thing in football, especially in coverage. Like it dictates everything in coverage. And you never hear commentators talk about it. But Olson did it. And like I feel like when I watch him every week, there's like one of those examples every week.

And I just think it goes a long way when you treat the audience with respect and just act like they can understand some football concepts. And I don't think we see other commentators do that really. Collinsworth comes close. I thought Romo, I think Romo's falling off over the last couple of years. Like, I think he's kind of gotten worse. Olson is now what Romo was like four years ago, just without like the prediction gimmick. I think he's doing all of that better than even Romo did back then.

He's so good. He's so much fun to listen to. If Tom Brady ruins this, if they take him out of the booth for Tom Brady, it's a mistake. take. I agree. I definitely agree with that. All right. I guess this is the take approach. I wanted to talk about Jonathan Taylor because he signed an extension on Saturday, three years, $42 million and then played on Sunday. He's now third among running backs in average annual value. He's only behind Christian McCaffrey and Alvin Camara. And I do think this makes a significant difference for the Colts. We talked about that a little bit last week, I think. But I was surprised to see this. happen just because of how contentious things seemed like they'd gotten before the season. But the more I think about it, and we should say that Anthony Richardson did go down with what I think was reported as an AC joint sprain, although they might have been doing an MRI or something, so I'm not sure that's confirmed.

I wonder if how he looked over the first month of the year ended up really influencing what happened here because if you sort of get proof of concept that you have the right quarterback in the building, the team is starting to look, you know, a little frisky, a little promising. The offensive line critically, I think has gone back to being, you know, maybe not among the very most dominant units in the NFL, but that they've looked good. They've looked like a strength for them. They've looked like a unit that can support a power running game, especially with the advantages

is that having a mobile quarterback provides. I've got to imagine that that makes shelling out a little bit more for a running back contract seem more attractive and maybe made Jim Mersey calm down. I want to hear what you have on that idea, but I will just tell you, Stephen, that this sent me down a very weird rabbit hole of things that Jim Mersey has spent money on. and I knew he was a collector. I think people know this,

but I was not aware of the extent of it quite. He owns the saddle that Secretariat won the Triple Crown in and paid like several million dollars for it. He also bought a hat that the governor of Texas was supposed to give to JFK the day that he was assassinated. he has the original Carowac on the road manuscript. He also has like a ton of guitars. I think that's the thing that people

really know is that he collects like sort of culturally relevant instruments. But first of all, all of these owners have money for new fields should be our takeaway from this. And in context, I think paying Jonathan Taylor $42 million is an incredibly sound financial decision by by Jim Mersey standards. Yeah. On top of all those things you just listed,

he paid $21 million for Carson Wentz. So yeah, I think the Jonathan Taylor deal is not that bad. It's actually good. I would say that it's actually pretty good. But no, I do think there's something to it. Like,

not only Anthony Richardson looking good early when he's been healthy, that is, but Shane Steichen. Like, yeah, a plus so far. He's got he's doing all really good.

He's flipping all the switches he did last year with Philadelphia. Like he's low key replicated that offense without like the star talent around it. It's not as good, mind you at any of the positions. But I do think you see a replica of what they were doing in or what he was doing in Philadelphia. Like he's going to work out as an offensive play caller elsewhere without that talent. And you you throw in Anthony Richardson the flashes we've seen so far. Like even in this game before he went out, the third and whatever, what third and 14, the third and long throw that he had. Beautiful throw with touch,

accuracy, everything that he's supposedly can't do, we're starting to see flashes of him doing it. And it's only what, like three games into it? Yeah, and if you're an owner, it makes you want to invest to that team, which the other way to look at it would have been, if

he hadn't been so boneheaded about it to begin with, they would have had Jonathan Taylor for the first four weeks of the season. That might have been nice, but that's okay. Zach Moss played pretty well. Still good in this game. So that's exciting that they might have a good little tandem there. My other take to Pridge is just that we're canceling the Texas Coast offense.

I'm with you. I feel like the Jaguars were low-key running at Texas Coast offense over the first four weeks. The Texas Coast is not a thing. Yes, it's like it's like quick game and that's it. Like that's what it is. It's a Mike McCarthy offense. It's just quick game. It's McCarthyism.

All right. This has been Dool Threat. We will be back on Thursday. Next up on the feed, Sheal and Ben will have extra point taken. Their deep dive into week five. Thank you to Kiar Givens and Eduardo Ocampo for their work on socials. And Isaiah Blakely for producing this episode with additional production supervision by Arjuna RanguPaul.

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