The Ringer NFL Show - Week 5: The Real NFL Season Is Finally Beginning (Ep. 154)

Episode Date: October 6, 2017

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark get you set for NFL’s Week 5, including why Seahawks-Rams is the most interesting matchup of the season so far (06:45), how Deshaun Watson might get into big trouble against the Chiefs defense (10:15), and why the Cowboys might never be as good as they were a season ago (20:30). Then, Kevin recommends full tank mode for the Giants (24:30), Robert predicts a big day for the Jacksonville D-line against Pittsburgh (32:45), and Danny Kelly joins the show to tell fantasy fans why now is the time to make trades for Dez Bryant and Sammy Watkins (38:00). Finally, The Ringer’s Joel Solomon stops by to discuss how Mitchell Trubisky is already one of the best Bears quarterbacks of all time (50:30), and Robert and Kevin anticipate next week's biggest NFL headlines (58:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's the Ringar NFL show. Kevin Clark here with Robert Mays. Robert, there's a new Showtime original comedy series called White Famous about trying to make it in Hollywood. I heard about it. It starts Jay Farrow from S&L as Floyd Mooney, a comedian whose career is about to blow up. But apparently, he's not sure he's ready for all that. That's like us, Robert. We tried to make it in Hollywood, too. But he's struggling with the notion, can I make it without losing my soul? The answer for us is already no. My soul has been gone for a long time. The show is produced by Jamie Fox and Tom Capinos, who created Californication. Yeah, the show is actually based on Jamie Fox's real life experience. It also stars Michael Rappaport, Lonnie Chavis, and a bunch of other great names. The two-episode season premiere is Sunday, October 15th at 10 p.m. only on Showtime.

You can also watch Great Series premiere right now for free on YouTube. Download the Showtime app now to start your free trial. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm Kevin Clark, joined as always by my good friend Robert Mays. Robert, week five of the NFL season. Was last night's Patriots win a moral defeat is our friend Bill Simmons thinks. I think it kind of might have been. I mean, Nick Folk missing, how many field goals did he miss?

Seven? Nick Folk missing seven field goals is the difference in that game. It's not exactly like the Pat's walked all over a team that wasn't playing very well to start with. I mean, I think the bucks are solid, but I don't think that they were the best version of themselves last night. And the Patriots still had problems. I mean, nobody came out of that looking good. I'll say that much. in order to be a team that makes the leap you have to have everything break right for you

and i just that was the clearest example that the bucks are not going to be that team this year like that was it they win that game if they're this year's raiders they win that game because it was a winnable game watching them over the past couple weeks i didn't watch i haven't gone back and watch the giants game again actually but i watched it live and i watched the vikings game live and then again and then last night i tweeted this yesterday and i've wholeheartedly believe it. The Bucks, especially with Doug Martin running like he was last night, with Mike Evans, Doug Martin, Deshawn Jackson, the line's playing better. You can't have James do this. Just the idea that every once in a while,

he's going to do something that is completely just off the rails dumb and short circuit everything they're doing on offense to know it's going to happen four or five times a game. I understand that that's just who he is and you have to live with that if he's your quarterback, but you can't do that as an offense. There's just no way to be that successful. That's who you're going to be. Who's the name a quarterback that throws a just mind-boggling interception once a week or tries to throw multiple. There just isn't one. There isn't an offense. Brett Farve did it for 10 years. I guess that's the only one. I mean, if he's Brett Farve, there's one example of every good call. No, I mean, you have to be so, you have to, you have to

You have to throw five touchdowns in one interception per game, and the one interception is insanely stupid. That's the model to win. That's the model to win with those sort of interceptions, is to be incredible on 38 other attempts. I also tweeted this last night, and I'm curious, I mean, how good of a coach is their cutter? What's the answer to this question?

I don't know if he's that good. I mean, the reason he got that job is because they wanted some continuity with James. They thought he was going to get hired. San Francisco. So they brought him back and they fired Lovie because they said, we've got something here with the quarterback. It hasn't gotten much better. I mean, it just, there seems to be a stale element to that offense.

And I don't know if it's James. I don't know if it's him. It doesn't seem like they do that much stuff that's overly creative. Every time I've talked with people about Cutter, it's just that he does what he does and that's it, which when your stuff works, that's fine, but I'm always wary of coaches like that. So I don't know. It just seems like there aren't, there isn't a trajectory from them that we thought and that we hopes we might see.

Two things with Cutter. Number one, Mike Mularky got the job in Tennessee for the same reason, which was, oh, he's got, he knows the schemes, he knows the quarterback,

we want continuity, we think we're going in the right direction, we're just going to go with this guy. And I don't know if finding the guy down the hall

is the right team building strategy as far as a head coach for a young quarterback. Yeah. I mean, there's a reason. I know why they did it, but at this point,

again, it just seems like there's some stagnation. They seem to have hit a wall. And maybe that's James. Again, it's hard to parse this, but it just feels like that offense should be better. And we'll see if they can get there.

I mean, they individually, the players on their team are. Is there an example of a coach who failed at the college level who then succeeded at the NFL level? Because Jim Caldwell, great question. Not a good Wake Forest coach. Like, I feel like if you have a long time and if you don't know, Dirk Cutter was the coached Arizona State. If you don't succeed. And 20 other places, if you see. his office.

Boise State. If you don't succeed when given a long time at a college program, and by the way, a program with a lot of resources like Arizona State, I'm starting to think maybe you're not a good coach. Yeah. And the other side of the ball,

I just want to mention that, again, this is stuff where I was talking about last night, but Brady was awesome. After the minus a couple of throws early, that pick was just really weird. And you had a couple others that on the first couple drives, like, what is he doing?

But down the stretch, he was damn good. I mean, he was just delivering some missiles yesterday. I was very impressed. I was on a red eye last night. So I was only following it via Twitter. But it seemed like, I mean, man, when the Patriots give you a game, you got to pounce on it. I predicted in August and July and even June that the bucks were this year's Raiders,

and I'm just not seeing it. It's not, they're not taking the leap I thought they were going to take. We'll see. I mean, in the NFC, it's not as if there are these really good second tier teams. I mean, who's the second NFC wildcard right now? Washington, Detroit. I mean, it just feels like they could be in the mix for that. I feel like that second tier in the NFC is not as good as it seems right now.

I've been more impressed with Detroit than Tampa Bay. That's fair. They've played better. So, yeah, we'll see. I think there's still a lot there. But, again, they might just be. Matt Stafford is a hell of a lot better than James Winston at this point. Yeah, that's fair.

Yeah. So it's Friday. So we're going to get you up to speed on everything you need to know about. Week 5. We'll also have our colleague Danny Kelly joining us with his fantasy advice later, Robert. And we're going to try something new with the ringers Joel Solomon called Am I Crazy? But for now, let's get things going with our favorite four. These are our four favorite matchups of the weekend. Robert, who's your first one? Seahawks Rams. We were talking about it on the Tuesday show, which is just weird.

You know, a game every single year that is close but miserable. They should let Jeff Fisher come back and coach the team. Oh, I'm really excited. I just feel like he always. made this a three-point game, a 12 to 9 game. We'll see what happens with that Rams offense against the Seahawks defense. The Seattle won't have Jeremy Lane or Cliff Averill. Cliff Averill seems like that's going to be a while. So they'll be starting the rookie corner opposite Sherman.

And then when they go to nickel, it's going to be even more shuffling. So it just feels like this is going to be not the Seattle defense. We're going to stay at the end of the season. And we'll see if the Rams can take advantage of that. I mean, this Rams team has been able to move the ball pretty consistently in each game. I mean, golf wasn't great against Dallas, but they still put up 35. The only game where they really kind of hit a snag was against Washington. And what we've learned about Washington over the first month is that their defense is pretty dang good.

And the fact that they could kind of, you know, put up a fight against Kansas City, who's been torching everyone. And then they're the only team to hold the Rams under 30. So we're learning a lot about how good the Rams are offensively. And I think that this is going to be another one of those tests. I don't, I don't know. I really think that they might be okay. So there's two things I'm looking at in this game. Number one, Aaron Donald.

If it was just Seattle's offensive line against Aaron Donald, just one person on the defense, what happens? He wins. I mean, there's no way. I don't think all five of those guys could block him. What if it's a jumbo package? They have like seven offensive linemen and then Aaron Donald. Doesn't matter.

It really doesn't matter. This is like the old DeBarre's skit. Like this is Hurricane Ditka is Aaron Donald again. to Seahawks' offensive line. So in my opinion, I think we've both been very hesitant to crown Jared Gough as a legitimately good young quarterback.

If he does it against Seattle, it's over. The debate is over. He's a legitimately good young quarterback. Sean McVeigh is a miracle worker, and this was a great hire. All of the questions that we've had, all the trepidation we've had,

oh, well, they just played against the, you know, they played against the Colts. They played against the Niners. Let's pump the brakes on this a little bit. that all goes away Sunday afternoon if Jared Goff puts up 35 points in Seattle Seahawks. Well, one of the things that they've done really well with the Rams is that they've given him a lot of play action, has been able to exploit the middle of the field as a result. A touchdown that he threw it a Gurley the other day was a good example,

but they've had a ton of that kind of stuff. And we'll see if they're able to do that against Seattle. I mean, even with the guys they have out, you still got Earl Thomas back there, who actually didn't practice Thursday. it seems like he's going to play, but he's a little banged up. And then Bobby Wagner's been incredible. So we'll see what they do in the middle of that defense. I just feel like the stuff that the Rams are able to get in that area,

the field may not be easy to come by against Seattle. And then we'll see what happens with Cup against their inside corners that they're shuffling around here. He's been good all year. The fact that they may have a matchup advantage there with a third round rookie, you wouldn't expect that if we talked about this a month ago. So a lot of stuff to watch here. I mean, I feel like we never would have assumed coming into the year that the Rams offense and the Seattle defense

would be a matchup between two high-powered units on either side of the ball, and that's exactly where we are. The only thing that is what we thought it was was the Seahawks offensive line. That's right. It's the only thing we got right, and Aaron Donald's still good. That's pretty much it. That's all we got going for us.

All right, my game, I love this game. I love this game. It's the Chiefs versus the Texans. It's the Sunday night game, a rare sort of deep-cut Sunday night game that actually ends up being okay. It's going to be a fun one. I'm fired up about this.

if you've been living under a rock for the past month, the chiefs are the best team in football, maybe ever. They've invented a new scheme. Andy Reid is the greatest coach ever. He's managing the clock effectively. Is this actually Andy Reid? Andy Reid's always been good, man. I'm tired of this.

I love Andy Reid. He's just managing the clock effectively now. Yeah. It's the one thing he hasn't done well. They're playing at Houston, who even though they don't have a winning record, I mean, is there any team in the NFL you're more excited to see? right now than Deshawn Watson coming off 57 points. And that Chief's defense is really good.

And it's almost, it's a little different from golf because we didn't see Deshaun Watson go through a historically bad season. But in general, I mean, as far as answering questions, it's the same thing as the Seahawks Rams game in a sense that if Deshaun Watson does it against the Chiefs and puts up 40 points, then we know what Deshaun Watson is. He made mistakes. He threw off his back foot a couple times. I understand that.

but I mean in general I'm I'm ready to buy into Dishon Watson we've been ready since April couldn't you just see Marcus Peters taking one back in this game though it just feels like one of those where this is the game where Deshawn Watson just tries to do a little bit too much and the chiefs are the exact defense that's going to take advantage of that that just wouldn't surprise me I feel like he's going to look brilliant in certain moments and then throw one back breaking pick and the chiefs are going to win this game by 10 points two touchdowns and they'll be able to stay the chiefs will be able to stop the run I don't know I'm I'm I'm worried for to Sean, but I'm also

incredibly confident in his ability to just make plays. He is an absolute I know it's a cliche, he's an absolute playmaker, and so I think he breaks up a couple big ones. I think the Chiefs win this game close. We'll see what happens again. The Texans offensive line still isn't good.

They didn't get magically better after week one. It's just now Deshaun Watson is back there. And Watson had to make some plays kind of moving around and darting in on a traffic against New England. So having to do that against the team with a real defensive line. Chris Jones and Justin Houston are both playing very well. And those Texans offensive linemen are completely outmatched against those two guys. So Watson's going to have to be on the move.

He's going to have to again slip out of stuff, make something out of nothing. And I don't know how long that lasts. It's fun to watch. Again, I'm excited for this. I'm excited to see him again against a real team. But I don't think that even that puncher's chance because of him is enough against the chief team playing like this. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I just, I'm so excited about Deshaunasana. I'm like Shea Serrano at this point. I think we all have a little bit of Shia Serrano. It's me, Shea Serrano, Mike Lombardi, and Bill O'Brien.

Are the people who are excited about this? I'm loving this. It was incredible to watch last week. I'm fired up. Even against New England, he was, it was marvelous. I mean, it was just such a spectacle to watch him make those plays. And I think that's going to happen a lot. Again, though, there's a difference between excitement and just overall, like, efficiency.

I feel like Kansas City is such a lot. just sound defense. I don't think we're going to see the same sort of communication issues that did last week. So much play action. I assume that's going to be a part of this again, but I don't think the chiefs are going to lose their minds as it happens. I have a question.

What's up? Were you aware that Dwayne Brown is still holding out? Yes, I am aware because I've seen Chris Clark and Brenno Giacomini play tackle for the first month. What is going on there? I don't know. No one talks about it. Nobody cares.

It should be a, it shouldn't be a massive NFL story. this isn't Cam Chancellor, but like, this is impacting the like the division race, the wildcard race, and just no one talks about it. Because we wouldn't be in this situation where he needs to pull stuff out of his ass and do Russell Wilson stuff all the time. Yeah, but we have like a legitimately good NFL player who's like apparently going to miss this season and nobody's talking about it. Yeah, it sucks.

It's very strange. So Wayne Brown was very good at the end of last season. He was hurt at the beginning of the year. He struggled. He was awesome at the end of this season. If he means anything close to that form, they need him. me, that's a guy that could seriously help this team. Very strange.

Okay, Robert, I'm excited about this next one. Hit me. I mean, this is probably the most relevant game between two O and four teams that we can imagine. The Shudgers and the Giants haven't won a game. I want to talk about this because I wrote about it on the ringer.com earlier this week. And it just feels like, I don't know, something cosmic with this. Eli and Philip Rivers are going to be tied to each other for the rest of time.

And they were traded for each other on draft day. It's been, you know, they've had very parallel. careers, neither has missed a start since taking over as the starting quarterback. And now both of their teams are 0 and 4 and they meet winless as probably their careers are coming to a close. So what I wanted to ask you is kind of similar to what I wrote about. Who do you think is going to play quarterback for the Chargers and Giants next season? And who would you rather be in the post-2004 quarterback era, San Diego, or the Chargers of the Giants? That's a real interesting question. I'm going to get, I'm going to touch on that a little bit

in the hottest take I actually believe. But I don't know the answer at this point because I don't know. I'm a little bit worried about burying both of these guys' careers because I think we've seen them at their worst before. Am I wrong? How many times does Eli look done? This is like, he looked done the year they won the Super Bowl. So I don't think Philip Rivers is,

I think Philip Rivers is playing better than Eli Manning right now. I don't think that Philip Rivers is necessarily done, but I also don't think he will be the quarterback for the Chargers next season. Oh, the problem is he loves, he loves San Diego too much. So is he going to retire? Is he going to go somewhere else? I just, if he's not going to play for the Chargers, I just assume he's not going to play next season.

I mean, the guy's 30, he's going to be 36 years old. He, it's an hour and 18 minute drive back and forth every day to work. He's got eight kids. He's already talked about, I mean, there was no secret that he wasn't thrilled about this Los Angeles thing. And it's gone as badly as it could have. I mean, this entire experiment could not. not be going worse than it is.

By the way, I never really think about this. I wrote about it in my thing. Isn't it like a delicious irony that there are opposing fans buying tickets in the secondary market to run Dean Stano's team out of the Stubbub's center? I just think there's something amazing about that. That's my favorite thing about this. I can't believe they didn't foresee this. Did you say that Philip Rivers commute as an hour and 18 minutes?

He lives very far north of San Diego. I think he lives up in, you know. So that's what he said. That's what he told Kevin. when they were talking about that mobile limo that he drives. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All limos are mobile, but the mobile TV or film. Can we get him a Kobe Bryant, a Kobe Bryant style helicopter?

Phil Rivers doesn't make that much money. I'm not sure Philbers is a helicopter every day money. Kobe, Kobe took a helicopter for like 82 games or 41 games from Newport Beach. Newport Beach to downtown is a little quicker than wherever Philip Rivers is coming from. uh philip river's one hour 18 minute commute is actually a pretty typical l a commute yeah it's not that bad i mean it's harder than his san diego commute that's that's that's uh that's like the east side to san an monica i mean that's true but you know that that that is true that is fair i mean so yeah i don't know the whole thing i think is just what i'm saying is the commute is not an excuse that's just an

l.a thing don't live in southern california if you don't want that well he didn't live in l a before he was living in San Diego. That's the thing. So I would rather be the Chargers. San Diego. It's not L.A. San Diego traffic is not quite Los Angeles traffic. No, it's southern California. They're all, it's all, once you get south of like Fresno, you're just in traffic. That's it. I, uh, so I think that.

Once you get south of like, once you get south of like Eugene Oregon, it's just traffic. That's what it is. You're in San Francisco traffic. Then you're LA traffic. I don't know, man. I don't know a car. My life is pretty stress-free over here. So I would rather be the Chargers. I think that just answering that question, that's what I wrote about. I just, their problems are more easily fixable.

You know, like Forest Lampe will be back next season. You know, Dan Fini will hopefully be able to step in and play. The Giants aren't in that spot. I mean, they both Justin Pugh and Westen Richburg are free agents after this year.

They're good. Yep. Like, those are the good players. They have no offensive linemen and no money to use. They're going to have about 30 million in cap room with not a single starting offensive of linemen.

Like, can Eric Flowers play anymore? Why would you ever trot him out there again next year? You can't. So that $30 million dries up real quickly. It just feels like they're stuck and I don't know when it's going to get better. I can't imagine if they go six and ten that Ben McAdoo is there next year. Because even though this is a second season as the head coach, he's been there for four and the offense looks no better.

It's kind of an extension of that dirt cutter thing we were talking about. They wanted continuity on offense. So they hired Ben McAdoo. why would you want continuity when you're just the most average or below average offensive that you could possibly be with those players? It's like when the Jaguars kept, it's like when the Jaguars kept Dave Caldwell.

It's not far off. Like, why? Why? They're both 0 and 4 teams, but I don't think you can have a more relevant game between 2 0 and 4 teams. I'm in on this game. I love this game.

Because the thing about this game, the thing about this game is that it's, in order to have a truly, truly depressing NFL game. It's not just like two bad teams, right? The Jets and the Browns are playing this weekend, but like that's not, those are just two talentless teams.

The Jets actually look okay. The issue is like when they're 0 and 4 and they should be three and one. That's when you get into truly miserable territory. Yeah, the Giants, that's not really true. I mean, they're a worse team than the teams they've played. The Chargers are, it's the same kind of deal. They're back and forth.

They're a field goal away from beating the dolphins. I'm telling you, they're haunted. No, no, no, no, no. I don't mean they should be three and one the way they've played. I mean, they should be three and one when you look at the talent on their roster. Oh, yeah, that's fair. No, no, yeah. I understand what you're saying.

All right, let's get to the fourth one. Packers at Cowboys is my last game. I love this matchup. Like, we're the same age, Robert. It reminds me of like Pat Summerall of John Madden in 1995, and the rivalry has only gotten better. I mean, like the Descott game is still like a top five game in the last five years. And so I'm excited.

I mean, that game was incredible. What's that? What about what Rogers did last year? I'm getting there. I'm getting there. And then we had the game last year. I'm a little bit disappointed. These teams aren't going to be what they're going to be.

I wish this game was happening on like Thanksgiving, but we'll live with it. I think I'm excited to see what both these teams look like against each other. I'm not that impressed by anything the Cowboys have done so far. And they're playing a team again that is so banged up. Hopefully the Packers are going to get some of these guys back this week. So pretty much everybody that's been hurt was at least a limited participant in practice. Mike Daniels, Brian Blaga, David Bacchari, even time Montgomery practice, which you're tougher than me, man.

Congratulations. To play running back with some broken ribs is ridiculous. So if they can get those guys back, even at a fraction of who they are, that's a huge step forward for Green Bay. The fact that they've been able to sustain this start without half their guys is ridiculous. I mean, it just really speaks to how good you have people. It's Aaron Rogers. Yes, that's fair. It's Eric Rogers is what it is.

So I have a theory on this, and we've been harping on it for a while. I'm going to bring it up again. It's not so bad that everybody is banged up on the Packers as far as testing the Cowboys. Because every team is so flawed and every team is so banged up that you just got to beat the guys you play. And so I think it's an interesting matchup because if Mike Daniels plays, I'd love to see him go against a Cowboys offensive line. I just think there's a lot of intriguing one-on-one matchups in this game. And then just look, the Cowboys secondary, we keep wondering if it got better, if it got good enough to make the Super Bowl,

it's a pretty good test to go against Aaron Rogers throwing amazing passes every basically 40 times a game. That's a good test for the Cowboys secondary. We saw how much missing Sean Lee matters for the Cowboys last week, and it doesn't look like he's going to play again. So that's a huge loss. Their guys are going to be back in the offensive line. I think Chad's Green's going to play.

after missing last week, John the Cooper was in. Mike Daniels is going to eat against either of those guys if he plays. So the Cowboys offensive line, we didn't talk about Dallas much last week, but their offensive line, or on the Tuesday show,

the guys that they replaced, they have lesser players there now. And the lesser players, plus the lack of continuity, that unit is not playing as well as it has before. And I feel like we're starting to see it. I mean, their average yards per carry on first down last year was 5.25.

They're not anything close to that. They are not the team they've been. and I think that that offensive line and the changes they've made are part of that. So if the Packers can be pretty close to fully healthy on defense, I think they have advantages in places where they wouldn't have a year ago. It's not as complete a Dallas team as we saw last year. And so I think the Packers will have advantages just by nature of just, you know,

the fact that the Packers have Aaron Freaking Rogers. But I think generally, I mean, this Dallas team will never be as complete as it was last year. I mean, everything broke right for them. the offensive line was, you know, historically good, I think, in a lot of ways. So it'll be really, I just think the testing aspect of it. I'm really excited to see what these teams look like. Yeah, I'm much more confident about Green Bay right now than I am about the Cowboys. Hell yeah.

Me too. But it is in Dallas. It is in Dallas. You know, that's a wrinkle I kind of like. Yeah, I saw Air Rogers burn them down in Dallas last year. So I'm confident of his ability to perform in that building. Jared Cook is gone now, so he can't make those incredible. good poise. He was the key to it all.

Martellus Bennett makes those catches now. Okay, it's time for my hottest take. I actually kind of believe. It's an opinion I have that's informed, but it's a little bit hot. It's a little bit out there. It's not a pure hot take, but it's definitely not a milk toast take either. So for me, Robert,

I think the Giants should go in full tank mode. Just get it over with. Ben McAdoo's not coming back. He already threw Eli under the bus in week two. That was the end of his career, unless he basically turned it around and won 13 games this year. I know the Mara family doesn't like to move on from guys.

You know, they basically gave Tom Coughlin three more years and he should have had. It was like a Supreme Court appointment. I know. But I think it's pretty clear that the Giants have to move on from McAdoo. Eli's Long and the Tooth. Just do everything you can to get like the second or first pick in the draft. Okay.

So that happens. Three and 13. If they get the first or second pick in the draft, you have to pick a quarterback, don't you? That's what I'm getting at. Yeah. I mean, it just feels like there's no way to go anywhere else. Yeah, of course.

Of course, you pick a quarterback because there's going to be a lot of good quarterbacks in this draft, apparently. And so whatever. I mean, figure it out. I mean, the Niners had the second pick last year, and they traded it for a King's Ransom to the Bears for Mitch Shubisky. It was like two third round picks. Calm down.

King's Ransom. King's Ransom. They gave their franchise away. Herschel Walker Trade Part 2. I'm just doing that to screw with you. You know that, right? I know you are. Okay.

So, no, I just think that whatever it is, a good pick is better than a bad pick. And you're not doing anything with this season anyway. So just start over again. You have the defensive talent. You're not going to lose anybody. You signed all those guys last season. They're still under contract for another couple of years.

And, you know, they're guarantees most of them last through next year anyway. So just start rebuilding. You can win with the rookie quarterback in this league. We've seen it over and over again. So just take it easy, guys. So what do they do with Eli then? You think they cut them? Nah, whatever.

Do whatever you need to do with them. I don't care. It's got like $13 million in dead money on his deal. There's $13 million of dead money all around the league. That's the new salary cap reality. Yeah, but the Giants can't do that. The Giants have $30 million in room and no offensive linemen. and they have to resign O'Dell Beckermoreland and Collins.

If they have $13 million of dead Eli Manning, when she probably is now anyway, there's not paying him like it. That's untenable. It gives you $17 million in room to fight against an entire life. What are they paying Eli Manning to be dead now? 22. Well, he makes 22.

Yeah. I was just guessing it was 22, but that sounded about right. I think you just press the reset button. Just, you don't, if you want to draft a quarterback, he's going to cost, what, $4 million next year. Keep Eli on the roster. Who cares? Just have the pick. Start moving forward.

I think that the charges are in a similar. It's kind of what you're paying your quarterbacks overall. It doesn't matter what you pay Eli Manning. The rookie salary cap is such that you don't need a guy. You're not paying him Sam Bradford money. He's not going to make $18 million. Well, that's what I'm saying. Just have them on the roster. I mean, it's kind of what the Bears. He can be the Mike Glennon. He can be the Mike Glennon of next year. Exactly. And I think that the Chargers are in a similar boat, and that's kind of why it's interesting to me. Because I feel like there's too much talent on the Chargers roster for them to go five and 11 next year.

But if you're going to be around that this year, and you're going to have a pick in the similar range, and you could make a move to the second pick, the third pick, to get one of those quarterbacks and not completely hamstring yourself for the future, this seems like the time to do it. And I think the Giants may be in a similar boat. Yeah. I mean, I think the Giants need to move on from Eli. Whether that's a two-year plan or a three-year plan or whatever it is, it just needs to happen.

I think you assign O'Dell to whatever he's worth. The cap is rising $10 million a year. You can figure it out. I mean, that's the thing. That's the thing about this entire modern era is that cap space, it's rising so much. It's meaningless after two years. You know, bad contracts become good contracts very quickly in the NFL because of what happens every single free agency period.

The NBA is having that, the NFL is having it. That's just the economics of the sport now. The salaries are rising so quickly. So just sign Odell to whatever he's worth, get Landon Collins in the fold, and just start building for the future. Well, you can sign Odell for whatever he's worth. That's fine.

You can sign O'Dell to whatever he's worth. I'm cool with that. But the way they doled out those contracts on defense, you can't build your team that way unless those are the finishing strokes on an already decent roster. If you're making those moves and you have completely barren areas of your team,

that's how you get in financial trouble where the Giants are going to find themselves next off season. That's why they did those moves. Eventually they will. Let's fix this quickly, and they didn't. So I think that that's the issue. They are eventually the money dries up. It's going to if you spend the way that they have

and you can't spend the way that they have if you have complete holes elsewhere on your roster. It's just not the way to do it. They've obviously made some missteps. Did Olivia Vernon need all that money? I mean, yes, you did because they were bidding against Jacksonville. That's okay. Those deals are all right to me.

You just have to understand who you are elsewhere. I'm saying, I'm saying they needed to patch some holes. They go out and they get Jenkins. They go out and they get Vernon. They get Snacks Harrison. I like that core. You keep landing Collins. I like that core.

There's a reason I picked them to win the division. I was completely wrong. But the reason is because I like the talent on the roster. You keep that together and you build going forward, but that doesn't involve Elon Manning. I totally agree. I totally agree, but here's the thing. The problem is with that core, you're paying your core combined.

Like, I think as of next season, they'll, at least as of 2019, maybe even next year, they'll pay that trio of defensive players upwards of $40 million. I would much rather have the core of Joey Bosa on a rookie contract, Keenan Allen at $11 million a year with most of that guaranteed already off the books after next season and a guy like Casey Hayward that you got for nothing. So I think that's the problem is they pay. so much for that core. It's really limited them in terms of wiggle room elsewhere. Sure. I mean, but we're not, I wasn't arguing about the Chargers Giants question at this point.

Oh, I understand that. Yeah, would you rather have a defense where everybody's on a rookie contract or is cost controlled like Melvin Ingram? Yes, absolutely. I'd much rather have Joey Bosa on a rookie contract than Olivier Vernon. Or JPP for 20 million. Yeah, exactly. Like things, things are going pretty well in San Diego. I'm just saying this is a wholly independent Giants argument. I think they need to just wind things down. Hell, maybe just fire McAdoo. What about that? Why can't they do that right now? Would you rather? It was just a comparison. The fact that you can have a core and you can be rebuilding, but there's wiggle room that other teams have that they just do not. And I think that's why as much as you want to rebuild, it's hard to do an entire rebuild when you're, I mean, JPP and Vern to make 20 million.

Jenkins is going to make upwards of 15. I mean, to have that sort of money tied up in three players is tough when you want to rebuild other areas of your roster. And I do, I don't disagree with you. I think it's the right move. It's just tough. Damon Harrison at 9 is awesome. That's a great deal for the New York Giants. Yeah, I mean, that conversation about run stuffers and how much they deserve to get paid is always interesting.

I feel like his lack of impact is a pass rusher in comparison to other players at that spot makes that probably a fair contract rather than a steel. But I get what you're saying. saying. He's a very good player to have it that number when you consider what like, I don't know, like, Don't know, like Don'tari Poe is making. Sure. Hey, uh, not totally in on Brandon Marshall at a 6.5 next year. What a disaster that looks like. I mean, it's not surprising. Good contract. I'll sign with you just because I don't want to leave New York. Good. I want to be on media. I want to make media appearances. That's good. That's great. That's how I made all my decisions in life as well. Nice job. Okay. Robert.

It's time for you to tell us what are we missing as we head into week five. I think one of the more compelling matches the entire week is the Jaguars front against the Steelers' offensive line. The Steelers haven't been as good up front this year as they were last year, made the best pressure rate in football in 2016. Rathesburg has already been sacked seven times, which is very far off their pace from a year ago. But I think that they're going to be have their guys back this week. Marcus Gilbert should play with that hamstring issue. Ramon Foster's back in the fold. So their starters will be in place.

and that Jaguar's pass rush right now is something. They have 18 sacks through four games. I mean, you got Campbell follower. What they do, I think the sub-package is what I'm referring to here. When they go to that, they slide Campbell inside, and they have Ngakwe and follower on the outside with Malie Jackson next to Campbell. That's ridiculous. And we've seen the impact of it.

So I feel like they could really control this game against the Steelers line that hasn't been very good so far. The flip side, and if you go to the other side of that, they have two corners that can match up with the guys on the on the Steelers. So I feel like if Jaywin Ramsey, AJ Bouye, have a better chance of going toe to toe with Brown and Bryant than pretty much everybody else. So you're looking at that and then you have this awful run defense in Jacksonville. I mean,

they are built for speed, man, and you can tell. And teams have been able to run over them, including the jets. So I feel like this could be a game where we see a lot of Levi-on-Bel. Rathus Barker hasn't been very sharp. The Jaguars haven't been able to stop the run.

It just seems like the best. route for the Steelers here would be to hand the ball to bell 30 times and just say we're going to win or lose this way. It's interesting to me because Rathusberger is getting hit a lot and getting hit hard. And that's the same problem that's happening in New England with Tom Brady right now where he's been hit, what was he hit 19 times to the first three games, something like that. And obviously he got the crap knocked out of him by Clinton McDonald last night. I think these old quarterbacks need protection. It's not natural to be in your late 30s or in Brady's case to be 40 and be this good at quarterback, it is really important that the Steelers'

offensive line gets good fast because Rathesberger just needs to be upright at this age. Problem, I mean, we see this all the time. I think that it's an underrated element with offensive line, man. People are just like, well, why is so-and-so playing so poorly? He's hurt, man. This is not hard to figure out. And that's what's going on in both places. I mean, Pouncey is banged up consistently, but he was healthy last year.

And that Steelers line was healthy last year. They were had some of the, I think they were like the healthiest line in the league or close to it. And that continuity in having your guys at full speed matters. And the same thing was going on with the Patriots. Cannon is hurt already. Nate Solders hurt. I mean, these guys being banged up just because they're on the field doesn't mean they're the guys were used to. And I feel like that may come up this week.

That's why I'm curious to see how they're going to perform against that Jaguar's front. just because even if they're on the field, it doesn't mean they're ready to go toe to toe with a group like that. Yeah, I think the biggest question, Robert, when do you start to believe in the Jaguars? I don't. If they win Sunday,

you don't. You don't now. I don't, even if they win Sunday. If they win Sunday, are you in? No, I just, we talked about this. I just feel like there are still too many flaws on that team, too many fatal flaws. that run defense is concerning.

I don't know if that that's an area where teams can usually shore it up with a little bit of time, figure it out, but I just don't think they're necessarily built for that. And I feel like that's a problem. And Tauvin Smith and Miles Jack can run with anybody, but they're not exactly thumpers in the middle of that defense. And I feel like teams are taking advantage of that. Kind of in a similar way to what Atlanta was defensively last year. This group is much better against the pass, but you can see that split.

And then on the other side of the ball, Blayport was still the quarterback. So that's that all the matters to me. I mean, he's going to do one or two things a game similar to Winston, even if he's playing decent or it's just like, what the hell? Like, why? Why would you do that? Why are you the way that you are? That's not going away.

Remember people who used to talk about Tony Romo's late game decision making. Like, you know, a minute 30 left, you throw some insane interception. Winston and Bortles are like that, but just through the entire season and their entire careers. That's it. just like insane decisions. You have no idea where they came from. Jay Cutler was the core of my team for eight years. I understand this.

This is a life I've lived. Jay Cutler is still in the NFL. What does that say about the National Football League? That's great. What a sport. What a sport. We've got Danny Kelly's fantasy segment coming up. If you're in a fantasy football, you need to hear Danny's advice.

You also need to join 450,000 other people and download the draft fantasy football app. You plan a live snake draft that takes only five minutes and last for only one week. You can join in a cash game right now for week five. And all new players get a free entry into a real money draft when you make your first deposit if you use the promo code, the ringer. You can play in a free real money game just by dropping our name the ringer. And draft.com is even offering 100% money back guarantee, so there's literally nothing to lose. Search draft in your app store or go to draft.com and play free with the promo code, the ringer.

Now let's welcome in our good friend the ringer's own Danny Kelly. Danny is a tireless fantasy football genius. Danny, you're a genius. Thank you. Thank you. As we round the corner to the second quarter of the season, Danny is here with some fantasy football talk. Danny, who can fantasy fans buy low if possible? I think right now if you have a chance to try and trade

Des Bryant, go for it. Because he's been hit or miss so far that's, year. I think he's got a two-catch game, a seven-catch game, a two-catch game, and a five-catch game with two touchdowns on the year. But that came against teams like the Giants, Broncos, Cardinals, Rams, and all those teams have pretty dang good, secondaries, good defenses. And so I think he's due for a little bit of a breakout in the, you know, as the season goes on, still one of the best players on jump balls, still physical freak, you know, the type of guy that can basically, you know, make plays no matter how close to the defense is. So I'm going with him.

got Green Bay this week. San Francisco after the buy, they face off against the Eagles a couple more times this year. The Chargers, Oakland. So there's some good matchups there, I think, down the line.

Just take them to that Oakland matchup. First of a target thing, you know, I mean, when you're looking at fantasy football, just with receivers, targets are usually the number of one indicator of how guys are going to do

over the course of the season. I know we only got two against the Cardinals in that money night game, but elsewhere, 16 against the Broncos, nine against the Giants, 13 against the Rams. They haven't been very,

sharp but he's going to get so many looks that it just feels like he's a guy you'd want on your team down the stretch yeah absolutely i mean he's still there to go-to guy he's still the matchup nightmare and i think you know as the year goes on that they get the the schedule lightens up quite a bit so he could be due for a big you know some some big games and yeah if you have if you have a chance right now i think you know by low get him uh and he could be kind of like a second half guy that wins your league um the second guy i got in mind and this one is this one's tough because it's a little bit more of a projection, but I'm going with Sammy Watkins for the Rams.

I just got done writing about the Rams offense. Just got done right about the Rams offense this week. They haven't really even scratched the surface yet on how they can use him, I think. He's one of those guys highly talented, took him a little bit to get integrated into their offense. He came in on a trade late in the offseason. I think he's trying to get worked into everything.

Right now he's number one in DVOA among Roder. wide receivers. That means he's been incredibly efficient with the targets that he's gotten so far. He's a guy that gets a lot of yards after the catch. He's super physical. I think he's going to be a red zone threat for them this year. So through a couple of games, he's only had one big game against Niners in week three.

But I think he could be the kind of guy who starts to emerge as sort of like the go-to guy in that offense. I think Cooper Cup is obviously going to get a lot of targets as well. But with the way that that offense is playing, with the way McVeigh has them clicking, I think he could have. a big second half. Danny, do you have the same problem I do where you almost call Cooper Cup

Cooper Cooper Cooper Cooper, every time? Is that just me? Robert? Anybody? The fact that it's KUPP also doesn't help. Like, KU to me is not Cup. Like, it should be Coop. Obviously, they're just trying to avoid confusion. Well, no, I thought, like,

when I first saw his name, like, in draft guides, I thought it was like a situation where you pronounced his last name, Coop. And then they gave him the first name, Cooper, like, as a joke, right? like that's his nickname from high school. Yeah, it's Cooper Coop. Like that guy, like, we all knew a Cooper Coop in high school,

like some variation of that genre. Anyway, Danny, it's very important fantasy news. Yeah, good aside. We were talking about this in relation to the game this Sunday, just the idea that the Rams have been so good throwing to the middle of the field because they've used so much play action. Just feels like as that offense starts to fully form,

that they're going to be able to push it to him outside of the numbers more than they've tried to so far. I just feel like that's kind of the extension of who they've been to this point. Yeah, definitely. And when you look at the game against the Niners, I mean, just one play in particular, he got down the sideline,

and Goff hit him down the sideline for a big game. And he's just so fast, he's really good off the line, he's physical. And he's got the speed to, like, if he gets one step on you, he could be gone. So I'm still, I'm still, you know, really high on him. I think, you know, it's, again,

it's sort of a big projection because, one, we don't know if the Rams can keep up what they're doing necessarily. I think that what they've shown us so far has been super impressive, and I'm definitely a believer. But, yeah, I mean, I think they're just really like in the iceberg so far what they can do with him. I think he could have a huge piece in the second half. The other guy I throw out is Matt Ryan, Danny.

Just feels like if you can get him, he's been awful so far, partially telling myself that because I need him to be better. He's one of the four quarterbacks I have in my team that matters because I'm just trying to find a solution. So just tell me Matt Ryan's going to be better, Danny. say those words. Matt Ryan's going to be great, man. Okay, thank you. That's all I needed. We can move on. Okay. We need to move on and stop just easing

Maze's anxieties in fantasy football. That's what it's all about. It's easy my anxieties in every way. Anything else, Robert? No, that's all I need. Any other bus, any other fantasy busts. You need Danny to tell you it's going to be okay with? Nope, that's it. That's all. I'm good. Okay. All right. Danny, give us a couple sell highs. Be mean. This is going to be so mean. I think one guy to keep in mind right now, and I'm amazed. I just picked him up in the ringer league,

so maybe we want to trade about him. Trade for this guy right now. But Devin Funchis, he is coming off of a two touchdown game, big game for him. He's kind of emerged a little bit with the injuries to Greg Olson, Kelvin Benjamin.

And I think it's, you know, it's pushed him into a little bit bigger role. But number one, Cam Newton still has only had one good game this year, really, against, you know, what had been to that point,

the worst defense in the NFL. And so, and so if I'm, If I'm you, I'm selling high on him just based on the fact that I think he's going to be a really high variance guy as the rest of the year goes on. I mean, Benjamin's still going to be the number one guy as long as he can be healthy. I think, you know, Christian McCaffrey is still going to be a huge target in that offense and in the passing game. So I think you really, it's going to be hard to rely on funches to have tons of targets and lots of touchdown every week. That's just how I see him.

I think right now I think he's going to, he's a good player and he's probably improving as the year goes on. but I still think, if you can get anything for him right now, go ahead and go ahead and make that trade because he's going to be one of those frustrating guys as the year goes on, I think. It's going to be one of the situations, though, also where there's targets to go around on that offense without Al Gray Goldson.

I mean, they're going to have to throw the ball to somebody, and you're not going to feel good about Calvin Benjamin. I mean, the way that Funches has looked, he's looked like the best receiver on that team, which isn't saying much, but it's still going to matter. Yeah, and it's, I mean, it's a risk you got to take. I'm just still worried about, you know, honestly, I'm just worried about Cam Newton still.

Like, yeah. It looked great that last week, but, you know, he needs to do it against the defense that wasn't just, you know, completely out of position on so many plays. Who else you got, Danny? This one might make some people mad, but I mean, I think if you can get like a good skill position player for Alex Smith right now, I think you should go for it because. Wait, Danny, who's going to be mad over that? Alex Smith? I guess, yeah. I just think, you know, right now he started about as efficiently and explosively as you could have hoped for.

I mean, like, we haven't seen this aggressive of Alex Smith ever, really. And they've looked amazing. They've basically, you know, I love what Andy Reid has done, sort of marrying the West Coast offense with the college stuff. It's really exciting. It's explosive offense. But the question is, can he keep it up all year? Yeah.

If you look at the rest of their schedule, it's going to be kind of hard, I think, for them to keep up this amazing efficiency and downfield prowess that they've shown so far. They got the Texans coming up. They got the Steelers. They got the Broncos twice. That's always going to be tough. They've got the Giants.

I don't know if the Giants are going to figure out what they've got going on on defense this year. But last year they were a lot more impressive and hopefully they figured out. And then they got the bills on their schedule too who have to this point been the best defense in the NFL. So there's a lot of really tough matchups coming up. If you can somehow finagle a guy that could be,

you know, either receiver running back or tight end, that could be big for you in the rest of the season. I'd go for it. I kind of like the idea that Alex Smith has become that, that episode of Seinfeld where Costanza was doing the exact opposite of everything he thought. And like Alex Smith, now that Patrick Mahomes is pushing him. So Smith is now just like, oh, I want to check down. So I'll just go 40 yards down the field.

And that's it. And that's what he's been doing for the first four games of the year. And it's amazing. Absolutely. It's been fun for me. I'll tell you that much. Okay. Before we let you go, Danny, give us your under the radar guy.

Danny, we've heard some rumors that you have a patent pending on this. name and it's D.K.'s Dark Night. That's so bad. I'm not taking credit for that one. I'm going to throw Sean. Who kept up with that? Sean,

keep up with that? Oh, we're so bad names on this podcast. Sean, Sean Keegan, our producer. DK.'s Dark Night. I just want to,

I want to clarify that it's Sean and not another Sean at the ringer because it's a bad idea and we don't want anyone being unfairly impugned. Dude, I'm just kidding. He actually asked me and I... Love you.

I'm taking full credit for it. D.K. Stark Knight with a K. I assume with the K. Or else it makes less sense. All right. Anyhow, along the absurdity of the name, this one might kind of sound like weird because I think giving anyone fantasy advice

based on the dolphins is probably going to sound terrible. But Jay Cutler is a wide receiver? Yeah. Cutler just chilling out on the sideline, on, you know, the wildcat smoking a cigarette. No, if you look at what Devante Parker's done over the last few weeks, I think he's average nine targets a game. You know, he's basically the one guy that Cutler's had some chemistry with so far.

I saw Nick Menzio over at Roder World. Titans have given up second-most fantasy points to receivers this year and have allowed eight touchdowns to that position, and that's who the dolphins are playing this year or this week. So it's not only a good matchup potentially, but I think Parker is still kind of the only guy in that offense that's looked pretty good so far. And so he could be,

you know, he could be due for another big game. I've always liked him. I bet if we told Devante Parker, go ahead, go ahead, Rob. I've always liked him. I've always liked him talent-wise. I can keep waiting from the breakout,

and it doesn't seem like it's going to happen with Cutler as the quarterback. I mean, I would roll the dice on that guy consistently just based on how good I think he can be. It just feels like this was supposed to be the year with Tannehill. And it's so, hard to trust anybody playing with color right now.

I mean, God, he looks awful. If we told Devante Parker, if we told Devante Parker, he was D.K.'s Dark Night. He would have some follow-up questions. Jay Collar would love it, though. I'm sure Jay would be a big fan. Thanks, Danny. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Coming up, the ringers, Joel Solomon joins us

for a new segment called Am I Crazy? We'll find out if we're crazy for trying this. We're also going to put on our visionary hats and talk about some storylines. that will be huge next week. But first, let's give some love to our sponsors. Some people sit around all day on Sunday watching football games, but are they making money, Robert? I mean, we're paid to watch football games.

Ben McAdoo is also paid to watch football games. That's the only thing that's somewhere about us or hopefully how good we are at our jobs. Fans, though, can make money on these games if they bet on MyBooky. We always talk about this. The best part about MyBooky is that you get fast payouts. Plus, if your favorite team sucks, you can make some cash betting against them. I actually really appreciate that. Before the Mitch Trubisky era started, that would have been a good move.

If your team loses, you make money. That's a very good way to hedge your emotions. And if they win, you're still happy. Don't forget, they have live in-game betting and a solid mobile site, so you can get your bets in from anywhere. And when you're done with football, they have an online casino where you can play some blackjacks or even craps. I like that.

Join MyBooky now with the promo code Ringer NFL, and they will match your deposit with, up to a 100% bonus. Time to make some cash guys. Visit mybooky.agy today. You play, you win, you get paid. We've got a new segment today as we're welcoming Joel Solomon

from the ringer staff. Joel has got some thoughts about week five and wants to know, am I crazy? Joel, go ahead. Kevin, thank you for finally allowing me on your show

while you're in Atlanta. This is really, I'm really honored to be here. You can tell. There's just a level of camarader here with us all in different rooms. Yeah. I took a red eye, and so I'm really tired, and I let my guard down.

And then they said, can you be on the show? Yeah, okay, fine. Oh, okay. Well, that's how it happened. I do have thoughts. I do have thoughts. Big Chargers Giants game with a lot to play for for these guys, clearly. Huge.

Yeah. You know, it is. It is incredible. I think this would be a great way for Philip Rivers and Eli Manning to end their careers by being traded for each other again. And then Eli going to the Chargers, Philip, finally being able to play for the Giants. But realistically, am I crazy?

Or does the QB class of 2004, Rivers, Eli, and Ben, and I'll even throw in Larry Fitzgerald, all retire playing for that one team? Ooh, that's an interesting question. So, Robert, you addressed this earlier. You think Rivers retire is a charger. I agree. I think it's probably sooner rather than later.

Eli is a different question. I mean, what if they do pull the plug and try to start over next year, Robert? Does Eli go somewhere else? I feel like Eli would definitely be one of those guys that he could be a... Usually the Jets are this team. I don't think he'd play for the Jets.

That's just the easy answer. I could see an Eli with like Johnny Unitas and San Diego sort of end to his career. That wouldn't shock me. Rathlisberger and Fitzgerald, I can't see them playing elsewhere. I'll say one thing. Yeah, Fitz, Fitzger is.

a Cardinal for life. I'll say one thing, and it was interesting because this happened a couple of times with quarterbacks in the free agent market in the last three or four years. Because NFL teams put such a premium, owners especially, on being set at the quarterback position, there's less holes in organizations than there used to be? I mean, what kind of teams just desperately needed a quarterback last off season? There was the Bears, and they solved that quite a bit by throwing money at Mike Glenn and then and then drafting Mitch Trubisky that high. And I guess I guess the Browns had a need, but then they took a guy in the second round. So the need for a veteran quarterback is is lessening year after year because all of the teams just want to be set with a high draft pick.

And so I think if Eli Manning made it to the open market, there wouldn't be a lot of demand for him. He's not very good. That's also part of this. Like if Drew Breeze is on the market next year, somebody's going to go after Drew Breeze. There isn't a lot of motivation to have Eli Manning be your quarterback right now. I mean, that's what you said about Jay Cutler also, to be fair. True. Jay Cutler is making $10 million a year to be the fourth wide receiver for the Dolphins right now. So in the team that Ben McAdoo is the offensive coordinator for next year, when their quarterback

gets hurt, he's going to give you a call. I do agree with you guys. I think it would be Eli Manning, especially because he's not so quietly moving up the all-time interception list and probably needs to pass Peyton before he retires. You can't walk away from that. I mean, it's just like coping the scoring titles. All right. Well, speaking about Bears' quarterbacks, my next one is, obviously, it's a new era now for the Bears' quarterbacks.

Jim McMahon, obviously probably one of the best Bears' quarterbacks of all time, even though he's just a cooler version of Trent Dilfer. Rex Grossman took the Bears to the Super Bowl, so he'd probably be the second best quarterback. And then Jay Cutler is one of the best bear quarterbacks who also happens to be one of the worst Bear's quarterbacks of all time. Those are all the quarterbacks, by the way. Right. Then there's just like, the worst and the best.

Right. Then it's just like a lot of guys who are some version of Mike Tomzac. So am I crazy or is Mitch Trubisky already the fourth best Bears quarterback of all time? And I don't want to hear about Sid Luckman because Sid Luckman played when it was just black and white. And there's,

I don't think there's any evidence of Sid Luckman. This honestly might be true. Eric Kramer is a better quarterback right now. It's a better Bears quarterback than. miss trubesky. Eric Kramer has the all-time single-season passing mark for the Chicago Bears. All right. So now Trubisky moves to fifth.

Where does Mike Glennon fall in this? What about Kyle Wharton? Kyle Orton actually was okay. Orton was better than Glennon. Yeah. I mean, Orton was better than Glennon. I think that,

I mean, this is the first time since Cade McNaugn where the Bears have even have drafted a quarterback this high. I mean, McNowen was a top 10 pick, but even Grossman was further down. They had the fourth pick in that draft. and they traded down.

They drafted Grossman in the, I believe in the 20s. So they've never had a guy like this. I mean, it's been a long, long time since they've had this a crown jewel quarterback. Not a vintage list. You have Jim Harbaugh, Jim Miller, Billy Wade is in there. Yeah, it's not great.

Johnny Lou Jack, hey now. It would not take much for Mitchell Tripisky to be one of the best five bears quarterbacks by the end of the season. I will just say that. The fact that they're giving him 12 shots really puts him in range. what a franchise.

You have something to look forward to then this weekend. Set the bar low. I like this. The stakes are high. All right, Joel, your third one. A lot of my friends, they're Cincinnati Bengals fans and big believers in Carson Palmer. But I like that if you're a fan of Carson Palmer, the big highlight of his career you point to is a playoff game where his leg got rolled up by Kimo Van O'Hoff. And had that not happened, the Bengals would have won the Super Bowl.

Like that's what they hang on with Carson Palmer. That was the first round of the playoffs, the first play of a game. Carson Palmer, very, he's taken some franchises and making them respectablyish mediocre. But I think one career playoff win, he got blown out by the Carolina Panthers in that NFC championship game, a lot of interceptions. Is Carson Palmer the product of tremendously mediocre era of quarterbacks, or am I crazy? No, I think you're crazy on that.

one, Joel. I mean, that's fair, but I did back it up. I think Carson Palmer is, God, he's had a weird career. Barnwell wrote about this a couple years ago, just the bizarre nature of Carson Palmer's career. And then he almost wins the MVP, like in his late 30s after looking pretty garbage in Oakland for a couple seasons. It's weird. I don't know if I have a handle on how good or bad Carson Palmer has been, honestly. So I talked to a GM a couple of years ago after the knee injury. And he said it took longer for Carson Palmer to become Carson Palmer again after the knee injury than anybody thinks. And he wasn't stepping into his throws enough. There were a lot of people who thought he was legitimately done. Like, you know, you talk to a lot of running backs after

they blow out their knee. And a lot of the times it's they don't trust themselves on cuts, right? That's the big thing. And I think that there was a little bit of that with Palmer just as far as stepping up in the pocket. I think he lost a little bit of that ability to, you know, he's not, he's never been fast. But there's such thing as pocket awareness for any quarterback, no matter how slowly, even if you're Dan Marino. And all you have to do is take one or two steps up in the pocket. I think he lost that ability a little tiny bit for a couple of years. And we saw it in Oakland and it really brought his game down. I think the Bruce Ariens rejuvenated his career.

I don't think he's on the echelon with Breeze, Brady, Ralthusberger, Manning. He's not there. He is a solid B-List quarterback as far as career. goes. At least he survived that curse of USC quarterback, so I will give him that. I'm just trying to think of who the actor that Carson Palmer would compare to. Like, he's one step down from the real people, but he's been around for a while. He's the

Sam Worthington of quarterbacks. No, that's way too much credit. He's more like someone in that Freddie Prince level. Oh, man. That's so cruel. This got very mean, very quickly. Oh, God. We need more of that. Joel, thank you for joining us. You got it. All right, Kevin, week five is here.

But before we get to the actual games, let's take a moment to zoom out and think about what's going to be the biggest headline of next week. What is yours? What are we going to be talking about on Monday? Sunday night, Chiefs Texans. The winner of that game is going to be spun into the hype world,

unlike you can remember a team since the 2016 Minnesota Vikings. Whoever wins that game is, is going to be the mid-October NFL darlings. We're going to be talking about how the Patriots have looked bad. We're going to be talking about how there's a passing of the torch between the old established good teams and the new wave of superstars. Whether that's Kareem Hunt we're crowning, whether that's Deshaun Watson, whoever wins that game in primetime, Al Michaels, Chris Collinsworth will be talking them up.

I'm fired up to see it. I just know it's going to be a massive overreaction to whatever it is, either a five and two chiefs team, who I love, by the way, but it would still be an overreaction or a three and two Texans team with a really good quarterback. Whatever it is, I'm excited to see it,

but it's going to be a great premature hyping. I think that that's possible. I almost went that direction. If the Chiefs win, it's the, oh, Alex Smith and just kind of the retribution and Andy Reid, and this is finally the year where it all comes together. I think that's easy to trace with Houston.

It's just Deshaugh Watson is here. I mean, that's what it's going to be. I mean, it's completely about him. For me, my thought is in a similar vein. Wait, it's not going to be about Bill O'Brien? I don't think so. I don't think we need the Bill O'Brien redemption story. I'm going to go with the Rams, kind of in a similar way.

Yeah. I think the Rams beat Seattle and they do in a way where golf looks good. And there's just this Sean McVeigh, boy, a wonder, you know, Jared Gough finally is here. You know, this is such a turnaround. And they bet the farm on him. And maybe it wasn't a mistake. And it just feels like they're the team. If they go in to beat Seattle, who is really, even if they weren't the team that represented the NFC in the Super Bowl last year, they've been the kings of that conference for the last five seasons.

And if they can go in and win that game in any sort of convincing way, it just feels like there's going to be hysteria about the way their offenses look so far. Love it. I'm very excited. It's awesome. I'm glad we're here. We'll be back on Tuesday to recap that game and everything else from week five. As always, we really appreciate you guys listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network.