The Ringer NFL Show - Week 6 Recap: Bills Outlast the Chiefs, Eagles Remain Undefeated, Packers and Bucs Struggle | The Ringer NFL Recap Show

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

Nora and Steven are joined by Ben Solak to recap the Bills' impressive victory over the Chiefs. They discuss the impact of Von Miller, what made the difference in the game, and look ahead to potential meetings between these two down the line (2:02). Then, Nora and Steven discuss their winners and losers, including the Vikings, Jags, the NFC West, and more (26:13). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Guest: Ben Solak Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Call me sentimental, but to me, the most joyful moment in sports is the soccer goal. And when that goal happens at the World Cup, well, it's pretty good. I'm Brian Phillips. With the 2022 Men's World Cup approaching, I'm making a podcast called 22 goals on the Ringer Podcast Network. It's about 22 of the most fire emoji goals in the history of the tournament. We're going to have so much fun. Cap show. I'm Nora Pintiati. Week six, Sunday is in the books. And as always, I am here with Stephen Rees. Stephen, quickly. What was your favorite moment of the Robbie Anderson era in Carolina? The last one when he got his way off the field. Bad take. Best moment of the Robbie Anderson era was when he figured out. Oh, oh, Benjamin Solax here as well. Hello. Yeah, no, it's the surper moment. It's got to be.

The bear. He's like, what's that bear? Of course, it's surfer. Yes. It's like, Robbie, you're playing for the Panthers. that's the mascot for the Panthers. It's not a bear. No, I disagree as a Panthers fan. I could live vicariously through Robbie Anderson in that moment on the sideline today. Just going out in a blaze of glory. I love it.

If there's anything to learn from Robbie Anderson on the sideline of today's Panthers' Rams game, it's if you want out, you just cause enough problems with as many television cameras around as you can. Side job in life right now. now exactly yeah things are getting you down you just find a bunch of cameras and just misbehave as much as possible increasing intensity until eventually somebody throws you out it's a good life lesson

take no christian get out of there all right we'll get to all that we'll get to more as we go through the sunday slate but let's not bear the lead here we are going to start with our headline which is nothing less than the game of the week maybe the game of the year so far and that is bill's chiefs Benjamin Silek is joining us taking a break from planning the Eagles Super Bowl parade route. This game was, of course, a rematch of last year's divisional round game, but the Bills didn't have Von Miller last time. Ben, what is your top takeaway from this very exciting game, which the Bills won 24 to 20? Top takeaway.

Bill's got Von Miller this time. I mean, you know, it's a little bit. That guy's a difference maker. Right. And, and, you know, Tony Romo was really excited. He was like, guys, Vaughn's going to be important for this game. It's like, yeah, Tony. We all thought so, but Tony was really excited about it and understandably so.

Tony Romo was, like, extremely on his bullshit in this game. And I loved, I loved to see it to hear it. I'm looking forward to Tony completing a complete sentence at some point during the, during the NFL season. I'm looking forward at some point, Tony, beginning a sentence, using a subject, verb, object, kind of that whole vibe and then finish it. The man loves just like a single clause. Just an interjection. Absolutely. Anyway, Vaughn, two sacks in this game,

constant pressure on the final Tehran Johnson interception, as Tony himself pointed out in the broadcast, that entire play gets broken down by the Chiefs first because Vaughn wins to the inside. It moves Moines out of the pocket. The spy is there to clean him up. Mahomes goes to throw it to Skymore. He can't because Vaughn's on his shoulder.

He has to pump it. He has to throw it late off platform. Toronto Johnson is their interception. It's just a one-play microcarriage. where if that was Greg Rousseau, if that was AJ Epinessa, if that were Jerry Hughes, it would have been close, but not quite. Mahomes would have gotten that ball off in time. You know, Skymore gets tackled, Chiefs still out of the ball, moving down the field.

Like, it's just a microcosm of what having that one elite guy can do relative to the way the bills have done it previously, which is the stable. But the stable was awesome in this game. You know, the bills are extremely deep on the defensive line. They were very heavy four-man rush, extremely few blitzes as we expected them to be against Mahomes against top quarterbacks they've faced so far this season. And then they were great in the back seven, right? I think that you're banged up.

There's no Tradavius fight. There's no Micah Hyde. DeMor Hamlin had a bad moment or two, right? Like certainly the tackle on the juju touchdown. But honestly, I thought played pretty okay in terms of what you can see on the broadcast. Kyri-Illum with the interception in the red zone. Turns out that defensively at all three levels, they're good. Ope Offense, Gabriel Davis, one-on-one touchdown.

Siffon-on-one touchdown, Dawson-Nox, game-winning touchdown, Devon Singletary, 805 yards of rushing. Bills are really, really good, man. Bills are emphatically, clearly, top to bottom, one to 53, best team in the league. They should win the Super Bowl because of that. It's just, that's not always the way it works. Good team, deep team, means a fresh team in the fourth quarter, especially. Ben, you just broke down how Miller forced the pressure that leads to the Toronto Johnson interception. Obviously, that's sort of the situation that's so analogous to what we saw in the playoffs last year where the chiefs get the ball back,

there's a minute and four seconds left and we're going, oh, that is more than enough time for good old Patty Mahomes. That's a different situation. But even before then, the Kansas City drive that came right after the refs missed the tripping penalty on Chris Jones that would have continued a bill's drive. You know, you're thinking, oh, man, maybe this is sort of the turning point in this game. It was 17 to 20 then, I think. Chiefs go back out.

They go three and out. Vaughn sacks Mahomes. Josh Allen gets the ball back. Bills end up scoring the go ahead. Even before then, though, it was only 17 to 20. They're only in a three-point hole at that point. Because it's third and 13,

Vaughn ends up chasing down Mahomes. They force a field goal. So you have three drives in the fourth quarter where Vaughn Miller, specifically, himself, just that guy, ends up either putting your offense in a situation to go back on the field and score points or taking points off the board for Kansas City. So just a really, really, really impactful performance.

But I think, you know, as you stated, not just him. It seemed like the Bill's defensive strategy in general was to drop a lot of bodies in coverage, mostly. True Media had their drop eight coverage rate as 36%. It had been 2% up to this point. that's not too different. That's like the Bengals in the second half against the Chiefs and the FC championship game are at like 40, I want to say.

And that felt like every single freaking down, which the drop eight numbers can be weird because sometimes it's like, like sometimes a drop eight coverage has eight dudes in coverage. Sometimes you're dropping seven and you have a spy, which is the case on a lot of the second half reps. And that guy's not in the coverage shell. So you're like rushing three, dropping seven,

and then dude, usually Matt Milano. It was just like spying. And so they weren't, they, they, they ran a lot of just plain old Tampa 2. And they basically said like, hey, no Tradavius White, no Micahide, we still think we're better than you. Like, we're looking, we're trying to find Tyreek. He's not over there. And we think we might be better than you seven on five.

And they were for four quarters. Coverage wise, they were, they were really strong. Well, and it's not that different philosophically from what they were trying to, what the chiefs were trying to do to Josh Allen, right? It's just sort of like, let's keep as much in front of us as we possibly can. the difference maybe is that the bill's put together 125 yards in the ground. Kansas City got half that. They've got 68 yards and 18 carries.

Stephen, what did you see between the Kansas City offense and the Bill's defense? I thought Buffalo's defense made Mahomes make tough throws. Playing that Tampa 2, they had to throw a lot of passes into that like whole area between the cornerback who's in the flat and the deep safety. Like Mahomes threw like seven corner routes in this game. and that's like not something he typically does. Usually they're trying to get to the crosser route, the deep crosser, and he has to throw corners. I think that's just a thing, an adjustment they're going to have to make

because they're seeing that type of coverage this year. They're going to see it even more after this game. But for Buffalo's offense, they could just do so many different things. Like any formation, any personnel grouping, play action, no play action, under center, not under center. They can just beat you in any way. And that, I think, is the theme of the season so far, is like conceptual versatility,

and they have it more than anybody. And you saw it today, and the run game, I think, benefits from that more than anything, because they can get into any formation and run. And like, think of the Bengals. Whenever the Bengals were trying to run last year, they would go under center and teams knew it.

You don't have that luxury with Buffalo. You don't know what they're going to do based on personnel based on formation. That's what makes them so tough, plus Josh Allen does Josh Allen things. Yeah. It is worth noting that this, like one of the criticisms I think you could have had of the Buffalo offense through five weeks coming into this game was that they didn't have

enough of this, right? Like I remember when Steve and I, we were doing the preview pot on Friday, we were talking about how, okay, they've recently been moving away from Reggie Gilliam. They've been moving away from this, this fullback, this two back set that they want to do. And they've kind of been going to their more traditional spread stuff. And some of that was like injury and they were losing receivers and kind of changing what they could do.

But they walk out this week and they got Tommy Sweeney back, who I think had a hand injury but it was out the last few weeks. And all right, we're doing our two tight ends with Tommy, right? We got Reggie Gillian back on the field. Like the first couple of drives, they did a lot of 21 personnel.

Reggie Gilliam is the fullback, a lot of 12 personnel. Tommy Sweeney's the second tight end. And the Chiefs were matching with three linebackers. She was playing four three defense. And Buffalo kind of looked at you. That was like that's what they did last year

in the playoffs again when Reggie Gillian was out there. Yeah. Are you sure? Right. But even like, they did, but like I think the Chiefs linebackers were better last year. Like they had Willie Gay and Anthony Higgins in that game.

These guys they trusted more, right? As opposed to like Leo Chanel and I can never remember 47's name. It's like Darius or something. But these guys, not like they're just dropping into zone and they're making it very clearly. We're got three linebacks on the field. We're only playing zones. No way we're manning up. And that was just on the early drives.

Like obviously the bills couldn't get points out of that. They had to take the field goal. They had the fumble in the first drive. But that was not going to be tenable. And so then you start getting into your lighter personnel against 12 and 21 and the bills are able to run the football. And that's always the secret sauce. That's always what it comes back to.

Like we always talk about elite quarterbacks and what coverage is you running and what are the schemes, everything. If a team gives you run and you can run against them, you become really, really, really, really, really, really hard to stop. And the bills were able to do it against the Chiefs. And one thing they did, they made like the cornerbacks tackle a lot. Like they got runs out to the edge and made the cornerbacks tackle. And if you play cover two, like your corners have to tackle.

That's just the thing. Like they're going to be in the flat. So if you run outside, they're going to have to make tackles. And I don't think the chief. have that personnel. And I think this is like the best example of a team doing stuff to get teams out of too high. Like we talk about that with the chiefs.

We talk about that with the Bengals. But like the bills are doing it. And then you see it on the on that, uh, throw to Gabe Davis. Like they were in one high there playing man to man single, single high safety. That's easy for Allen and Davis. Well, because then he ends up getting, they end up finding their matchups, right? Like, right. Right.

He gets Gabe Davis one on one against Joshua Williams. who's playing for Ashad Fenton, okay, Josh Allen's going to love that all day. Davis brings it in 34 yards touchdown, boom. Yeah, and you have that Davis touchdown and then also the Diggs touchdown. Both times the bills had like just gotten over like the 40-ish yard line.

And I was trying to figure it out. And I think it's the whole like, they're kind of in field goal range. Let's see if we can knock them out sort of a thing. But like on the two-minute drive, they gave Davis touchdown, it's like, too deep zone, two deep zone, two deep zone,

Don't get be deep. Don't get be deep. 20 seconds left. The bills of the ball in the 40. And all of a sudden it's like, hey, six dudes on the line, manned up, here we go. And it's like Spags. Steve, Steve, no, this is bad. We don't.

I know you want to kick him out of field goal range. It is not worth it. And Josh Allen kind of looks in its game pressed up. He's like, yeah, okay, for sure. And then Dix is the same thing. He just pressed up on the back side and the same area of the field. And it's like, listen, Steve, I know you have your defensive philosophy. You once, like, even with Rashad Fenton in, this was questionable at best.

You got to calm down. This is not the day, man. You don't want to go out like this, Steve? Is that philosophy or is that like a reaction, like a human reaction to them? I was also thinking that. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, I'm tired of this. I just want to end this.

Enough. It's like the play calling equivalent of going enough. And you'd love to say that like Spags for as long as he's been a DC would be able to resist that. However, a DC is a DC. A defense coordinator is a defense coordinator. They're going to hate it. You know what I'm saying? there's going to be those emotions, especially with a guy who likes the blitz likes bags.

So, but those two touchdowns, man, like with the bill, with the poor execution in the red zone on both sides, but especially the bills, fumbled to Isaiah McKenzie on the opening drive, the Isaiah McKenzie fall over on third and goal, right? Like, those two touchdowns swung everything. This could, this could have been a huge statement, Chief's defensive performance in the scoreboard. Like, it wouldn't have looked actually that great EPA wise because the bills were getting in the red zone. But you could have, like, won this game on the back of your defense. You could have, like, won the game with only 20 points in the offense. Incredible.

Those two touchdowns make it. But that's what we're looking at right now with Josh Allen, right? Like, I was talking about this on our Tuesday show last week a little bit, but Josh is just making throws, man. He's been doing this this whole career. But the degree of difficulty and the frequency, as compared to, like, his knucklehead stuff, has never been stronger in a positive direction. The Gabe Davis touchdown was beautiful. the Stefan Diggs zone throw on the game winning drive. Unbelievable. Like he's, Josh is really freaking good.

And you give him, you give him an inch. He takes it, man. It's unbelievable to watch. He's up there with Mahomes for me. Like I know like the resume doesn't match, but in terms of level of play right now, like those two are head to head. And the only one that's close is Herbert. And he's behind them because he doesn't have the improv game that they have.

But it's those two and nobody else. Nobody else. Well, and Herbert also doesn't have. the people around him that have that have shown that they have this like really developed understanding of sort of like when to have him push the buttons right like right after the two minute warning that's when they come out and get that that go ahead touchdown drive to Dawson Knox but they come out right after the two minute warning they just sort of like press the QB sweep button and they're like you know what let's break this out let's do this now this is this is the

time and you're just like yes this is what happens when you have smart coaching an incredible player. Everybody knows each other. Everybody knows sort of when. And I think they've gotten so much better at particularly when it has to do with using Allen's legs, just like knowing how much to do it, when to do it, when to pull back, when to not take the injury risks. And it's really cool to see. It's just, it's exciting stuff to watch. No, Stephen brought up that point, you know, the forcing the chief's corners to tackle. And it's funny, it's like Legerius Sneed, who plays their slot, plays so because it's a pretty good tackle. A great stop. Devin Singletary force to fourth down and jarius needs having a great game then kuby power goes with jarius steeds way and

josh allen just breaks that young man down just just breaks his ankles in the open space and you just remember that like hurts lamar they're better runners than alan probably because they do it more and like they're more involved in whatever but when alan tucks man it's it's like whatever first round tight end you want to name man like his the way he breaks tackles he obviously his hurdle like he's just such a devastating devastating runner. And it's impressive for Ken Dorsey, who's taking a reply calling for the first time to still feel like

he has his thumb on the pulse a little bit. They gotta get better of their short yardage stuff and the goal line stuff. But other than that, the transition dable to Dorsey has been really, really impressive. Like that sort of QB dial management

pretty seamless. And that's harder to do. Getting Allen out on the edge is like, to me it's like watching Derek Henry out in the open field or Rob Grunkowski. Like those are the comps. It's just like defending. afraid to tackle people.

People making business decisions. And I would make them too. I don't blame them. Have you guys seen Lord of the Rings? Yes? Yeah. I mean, I understand being suspicious

that I've not seen a movie, but there's a bar somewhere. And Lord of the Rings is like the closest thing that exists on a football field to an ent. He's just like a giant tree man and he's here to cut you down. But in a nice way. Yeah.

The ends move too slowly and too, Like methodically. Alan still got that like perky jerky. I just was born yesterday athleticism to him. I don't know. There's a lot of flailing limbs with ends. The first throw of the 99-yard touchdown drive to end the second quarter, Alan is in the end zone on third and 12, making space and then throwing sidearm to Gabe Davis,

literally looks like he's like a marionette being operated. Like it's just so like, you could like, the contrast with Mahomes who's just like so stinking smooth. and just like little scamper and a little whoop and then like go and he's always like balanced and like in control and whatever and Alan's just there like limbs were flailing it's like the guy in front of the used car dealership and then all of a sudden just a zinger just heat off the ball 25 yards it's so funny watching that gangly man be better than all the other athletes on the field these quarterbacks are very silly they're probably the two greatest players we have to watch in the game right now at their position they are generational talents they're incredibly

exciting. All of that is amazing. I think we tend to use a lot of big, important descriptive words when we talk about them. It should not be forgotten that a lot of what these two guys do just looks very silly. It is just absurd and ridiculous. And that is lovely. It's nonsense. It's nonsense football. Like, Mahomes had that one touchdown taken off the board where he like threw it side armed for, it was like three feet off the ground like sidearm. It was like he was like turning a double play. Yeah. And it was like on the money. The Miko touchdown was, it always pisses me off when he's running towards a line of scrimmage and he throws it accurately. Do you know how weird that is?

Like, the things that Mahomes does that are weird, this is the one that always blows my mind. To be traveling towards your target while releasing the ball and have it be accurate is, like, nobody else try it. That's not real, man. The only guy who does it was the dude on the other side. And that's why we're so excited for this game. Mahomes played out of his mind. Mahomes played such a good. game. I can think of two bad plays from Homes and one of them is what ends up being the game

sealing interception. And that's the way it goes when two teams are so closely contested. If you get the same quality game from Allen and the same quality game from Homes and flip the weapons, I mean, she's probably win. Yeah, I would say that. I mean, there was not much difference. The one difference was the bad interception at the end. But between this game and the playoff game from Homes, it was like the same game except for Lohms. Von Miller was on the field. That was the only difference. I saw that Kvon Tibido,

but a great game for the Giants. We'll get to that later. Tweeted something. I don't know if it was while Chief Spills was going on sometime after that game, sometime this afternoon, where it was like a photo of him making a play and he hashtagged the closer,

which is what Romo kept calling Von Miller. And I was just like, oh, buddy, you picked the wrong day to do this. You picked the wrong day to try to establish this nickname. I'm very sorry. Congratulations to you. Great performance. Going to have to come up with something else.

I strongly disagree. Best way to get your name in the conversation out came with playing great through a few weeks. Just challenge Vaughn for the nickname. Let's get some headlines going on Tuesday. I love it. This is PR, baby. Start a beef. This is a good segment idea.

PR workshop with Benjamin Solac. Okay. Ben, you can go first with this one, and then, Stephen, I want your answer as well. Are these the two best teams in the FSA? Do we see this matchup again in the playoffs? Yes, yes. Somebody asked me who the third best team was. I think it's still the Ravens pretty clearly.

The Ravens are three and three, and in the three games they've lost, they've been trailing for like two total minutes. You know what I'm saying? They're just a very, very good team that's having a horrible, horrible time closing out games. Analytics, fourth down, defense, notwithstanding a lot of reasons. I think the Rams are clear three, but it goes 1A1B Bill's Chiefs for the AFC and like for the league. Like the Eagles are really good, but I don't think you're putting these guys on a neutral field. The quarterback difference is still too big.

They're the two best teams in the league and then everybody else gets into a second tier. Who's the fourth best team in the AFC? That's the actual tricky question. Yeah. The. It's probably the, is it the dolphins when two was healthy? to a back? Or is it the Chargers?

I was about to say, like the Chargers like played the Chiefs tight. The Dolphins beat the Bills. Dolphs beat the Ravens. It's probably the Dolphins. This is a weird year, man. We are very lucky we have the Bills and the Chiefs right now. Yes.

A healthy Chargers team, I think, is the fourth best team. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I cautiously want to say it's the Dolphins with a healthy quarterback, but it just everything feels so top. see Turby there. I feel like I want to see a game or two. We're seeing this match begin in the playoffs, Stephen?

Yes, for sure. God willing. Yeah. Same. Do you think anything will be different by the end of the season, or is this just sort of a dog fight no matter what? Dog fight no matter what, because the margins will always get filled in by the quality of quarterback play. Yes. The chiefs have a very clear what what do we do next, which is the point that you brought up, Nora, which is the bills went and ran for what was it, 120, and the chiefs were unable to run for 120. The chiefs running game designs, running back rotation, running back usage is all asunder. It's very, very bad. Like, every time I watch, it's very clear to me that Isaiah Pacheco should be getting more touches

than everybody who's above him. I don't think that's even close to, like, debatable. And their offensive coordinator, who is an ex running backs coach, can't seem to get a handle on this thing, which is very, very tricky for me. They have to figure. out the running game by the time they meet the bills next. You're going to get four-man fronts with two linebackers. You want to be able to run against it. So they have that problem to solve. For the bills, it's get healthy in the secondary.

Stay healthy on offense. Yeah, figure out what Benford and Elam are going to look like rotation-wise. And like, you know, you just round out your depth and kind of know what your plans are. They're kind of like, you know, what meat is left on the bone. We're not really sure. But the Chiefs have a running game problem to figure out. If the Chiefs figure that out by the time we get to the AFC championship game, it's going be a good day.

We talked about this on the Friday pod, but I really think that this matchup, throw out the X's and O's, throw out the defense, throw out the offense. It comes down to the quarterbacks. Like, it doesn't matter. Nothing matters. The play calling doesn't matter.

The personnel doesn't matter. Whichever quarterback wins the matchup is going to win the game. Yeah, they're the great erasers, right? It's when you have this level of alien talent, alien is a word to use, extraterrestrial, not of this earth, breaking the rules that we've understood, life of football by forever, right?

When you have this level of talent, our ability to parse the game and predict and then kind of spit out what we expect is kind of just nullified. It's okay. They're both incredible. Flip a coin. That one has the slightly better game, ball game,

because they matter so much more. The gravity is so much more than anybody else on the field. But chiefs figure out your running game. All right. Good stuff. Ben, thank you very much. You want to give us a parting

go birds. As the prophet Noah said, as he stood on the ark and released the doves to see if the land was habitable after the flood, go birds. It's in the Bible, baby. Look it up. Oh, my goodness. Now is the perfect time to download Fandul, America's number one sportsbook. Join today to get started with $150 in free bets guaranteed when you place your first $5

bet. That's free bets back if your first bet doesn't win. Just sign up with promo code. ringer NFL. My favorite bet for Monday night is Chargers minus four and a half. With live betting, you'll get updated odds on games that have already started and you'll get paid your winnings fast, all on an app that's safe, secure, and super easy to use. Don't fumble your chance to get $150 in free bets, win or lose with promo code Ringer NFL. Make every moment more this season with Fandul, official sportsbook partner of the NFL. 21 plus in select state's first online real money wager, only $10 first deposit

required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable free bets that expire in 14 days, restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.Fandul.com. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler, or visit fanduel.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Virginia. 1-800 next step or text next step to 533342 in Arizona, 18887-8-8-9-7-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-8009 with it in Indiana. 1-800-522-470-470-470 or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas. 18777-7-7-stop in Louisiana, 18778, Hope N.

or text Hope N.Y to 467-369 in New York. Tennessee Redline, 1-800-8-9. 9789, 1,800 522470 in Wyoming, or visit 1800 gambler.net in West Virginia. All right. Let's get to winners and losers. I will kick us off with our first winner. This is a little bit of a two for actually. The first winner, the first part of this winner is really all of us because we don't have to engage in Cowboys quarterback controversy conversations in the near future. at least, I think. The real winner here, of course, is the Eagles. They beat the Cowboys on Sunday night football, 26 to 17.

They're 6 and O. And their next five games are against the Steelers, Texans, commanders, Colts, and Packers. So this is probably the best measuring stick we've got for the only undefeated team in the NFL for a bit. And yes, the Cowboys with Cooper Rush obviously have some limitations. That ended up showing up by the time, you know, they played six. minutes in this one. But I still think it's very meaningful that the Eagles had 20 points by half time against a Cowboys defense that hadn't given up 20 in a game all season. Michael Parsons did start getting pressure when Lane Johnson went out in the second half and that definitely

slowed them down. But overall, you know, when they were healthier in the first half, they did a really good job slowing Parsons down and the Cowboys defense overall. They get to 26. There's no turnovers. Just a little bit of everything offensively, clean sheet. And then defensively, again, yeah, it's Cooper Rush, but the secondary was just super impressive. I thought, you know, Darius Slay gets a pick. CJ Gardner Johnson gets two. James Bradbury was really, really good. So you give the Cowboys credit that they got going using play action and leaning on the ground game in the second half and ended up making it a competitive game. But the Eagles had a pretty big test with this defense.

And I think they more than passed it. And the big plays they got out of the secondary show what I think, you know, I don't think you look at this Eagles team and think that they're quite as explosive or as scary as the AFC contenders, the Bills or the Chiefs. But they've won games in so many different ways. and seeing them win this game, yes, absolutely, by doing what they needed to do to get past this Cowboys defense, but also just by having their secondary really, really show out,

I thought exhibited that. Yeah, and I think this game kind of shows you the underlying philosophy and of why this offense is so effective this year. And it's just that run game and that offensive line and having Jalen Hertz at the center of it all, being able to do options stuff, just makes things so much easier for you on offense and so much harder on defense because you can't do the exotic stuff when you have to be assignment sound and you have to have a guy for a guy to account

for every gap in the run game plus the quarterback it's harder to do the wonky stuff it's harder to get exotic and like that's been kind of what dan quinn has done that's that's been the change up from his days in Atlanta he's doing more blitz stuff but you can't do that against the Eagles offense and they kind of like simplify the defense which is rare in the NFL like you see it in college you see these these fast college style offenses make defenses play simple and they have that same effect on NFL defenses and that's so rare and it's because of jalen hurts it's because of how the offense is designed it's because they have that offensive line now that's the one concern like the offensive line has been banged up and I think if this team is going to

compete for a Super Bowl and that's the goal right now. for this team, given the state of the rest of the rest of the NFC, the offensive line has to be healthy. And it's so hard to keep an offensive line healthy and together for a full season. So that's my one concern with this team. But given their competition in the conference, like, I mean, I don't know, is there a team that can threaten them right now? I don't feel like there is. And the other thing is that, you know, schedule-wise, they really have easy sledding here. So they will at the very least you know, you can't save guys in football. It just doesn't work.

The game is too violent, but they can afford to take it slow, take whatever time they need, you know, getting guys rested and stuff like that. You know, they can try to get those little edges and manage the roster with the postseason in mind. I mean, I can see. I still in the long run think the 49ers can give certain teams a game. and you think about like, okay, if they didn't get healthy up front and well, geez, I mean, with San Francisco, the problem is they're so banged up defensively. But if that fixes itself by the end of the year and say the filial line just was too hurt to be the

strength that it's mostly been up to this point, I can see them giving them a game. Oh, gosh, both Brady and Rogers just seems so totally washed up that. I don't even want to go there, but it might be the Cowboys. Like the Cowboys with Dak might be like the toughest test on paper right now. Yeah. And I think tonight was one of those games like you said where you see why they missed Dak because when Cooper Cup, like when the offense is humming along and on schedule ahead of the chains, it can work with Cooper Rush.

The problem is when you get behind the chains and you have to make a play on third down. You have to make a play in a passing situation. Cooper Cup just is I keep doing that. Cooper Rush isn't that guy. Cooper Cup very much is the guy in past situations. Cooper Rush is over. Cooper Rush is not that guy. But Dak Prescott, like that's his thing is Dak is the dropback passer.

And that's why I found it so funny when that debate was even going on because like it was clear why Dak struggled in that first game. The Cowboys could not run the ball. They could not block the Bucks pass rush. And when the offense worked, could run the ball and they could block they could block opposing past rushes but in this game that wasn't really the case all the way through and we saw the the limitations of rush but i i don't feel bad about the cowboys after this game i feel a lot better knowing that the passing game is going to be

so much better with a like a legitimate top 10 quarterback i feel like we are underrating dack and the effect he's going to have on this team when he gets back to it the fact that they're four and two right now I'm more excited about this team. If I'm a fan of the Cowboys, I'm more excited than any other team besides the Eagles in the NFC. I'm a little more cautious. This Cowboys team obviously seems completely different from what we saw against the Bucks.

But I just want to see it work with Dak and see that go well. I'm certainly like, Dak will be their quarterback. Jack seems like he's about to be ready to be healthy and a good Doc Prescott is going to be able to take advantage of, you know, what they can do in the passing game so much more than Cooper Rush, who's been given the circumstances really, really good. I just want to see it before I really feel that way.

Yeah, I mean, it's a finger injury too on the, on his throwing hand. And we like, Russell Wilson still might not be over the finger injury. He suffered last year. So, who knows? And Jack's saying stuff like, it's an, it's an A, but he wants. it to be an A plus and it just I don't know. I guess what's he's supposed to say but it

just I yeah in the biggest the second biggest one of the biggest games of the season probably the second biggest game the next biggest game will be the next time they played Philly like if he could have played tonight he probably should have

probably and he probably would have yeah yeah like the the Cooper Rush thing is funny but the person who is fueling all of that is Jerry Jones. It's not Mike McCarthy. Like, no,

Dak's job has never for one moment, Benin question. And Jerry probably thinks he's like fooling everyone. He probably thinks he has everyone thinking that that Cooper Rush is this like good quarterback that could push Dak Prescott. But any, he's probably doing that so we could trade him later. It's not going to work.

No one's going to fall for it. Jerry's just, He's just a mischievous guy, you know? Yeah. He's manifest out there. All right. Who's your first winner? My first winner is the New York Giants.

But more importantly, our first winner is Don, wink, Wink, Martindale. You have to say his full name whenever you say his name. Another mischievous guy. He's just say the full name for good luck. Every time you say Don, wink, Bartendale, an unnamed defensive back blitzes for a sack.

Yes. And every time you don't, don't say it. A coordinator calls like cover two instead of cover zero, a cowards call. But it was a great day for for wink. We questioned all week whether he would blitz Lamar and he did blitz Lamar. They blitz on 25 of 36 dropbacks. Oh boy, did he? Yes, 25 and 36 dropbacks, nine dropbacks with six rushers. And it worked. It worked. And it worked because the Ravens have no receivers. This was, this was like a throwback game in that the Ravens waited until the final drive, one minute and 46 seconds left on the clock, I think, to put a third receiver on the field.

That was the first time they did it all game long in 2022. When every team just bases out of 11 personnel, there's this one team that doesn't play three receivers. And this is why the passing game doesn't work. This is why it doesn't work. You have to. to have receivers on the field for passing game to work. Their offense today, they did have a lot of like explosive running plays and it was all like Lamar option plays. There was a couple where Kenyon Drake ended up with the ball. He ended up with 10 carries for 119 yards to touchdown.

Lamar had I think 72 rushing yards off of option plays. That's the offense right now. Just Lamar. Lamar running plays based around Lamar's threat, passing plays where Lamar gets outside of the pocket and creates. passing plays where he's throwing deep to tight ends. Like that's what's so crazy about this passing game right now. Mark Andrews is the focal point, which like isn't a bad thing in a vacuum, like the Chiefs,

their passing game is built around a tight end. Yep. But the thing is he's getting a bunch of targets and he's getting a bunch of downfield targets. There are 16 receivers in the NFL, tight ends or wide receivers who have gotten at least 50 targets. only D.K. Metcalf has a higher A. D.K. Metcalfe has like their deep threat. And like my theory has always been that deep accuracy is a wide receiver stat. It's like how much separation they create, how they catch the ball in the air, how they deal with 50-50 balls. Like if you look at Lamar's numbers today, he missed a lot of throws downfield, but it's because

he's throwing to receivers that are tightly covered. He's throwing to tight ends down the field who aren't creating separation. And like Mark Andrews, as good as he, is. He's not the best at the catch point. Like he doesn't catch a lot of balls cleanly. And I think that just that just sums up the problem with the past game, that he is the deep threat right now. And yes, Rashad Bateman is injured. But that just shows how fragile this receiving court is, where you lose a second year player that had like what 13 catches coming into the season. And if you lose him, the passing game falls apart. Is that how you build a team? Like it's not looking good for this team. And I think that's why Martindale had such a big game because these are the teams that he feasts on.

If he has no reason to be afraid to send cover zero blitzes, he's going to send them. And you're going to have problems like this. So the Ravens have also lost three games in which they had double digit leads this season. So it's statistically anomalous that they would have beat that they would be three and three. They led 20 to 10 with 12 minutes left. Right. And even in the last three minutes of the game, Lamar throws the picture of Julian Love

after recovering the bad snap. Then the Giants get a short field. Sequence scores a go-head touchdown. And then Tibuto strips Lamar fumbles. Games over. Yeah. On that play, they double Mark Andrews. Like you never see tight ends getting doubled on second down.

But Martindale did it because he doesn't have to worry about anyone else. Like you're not worried about Devin Duvrenay. Devin Duvonney is not going to be the receiver that finally gets Martindale to not blitz. I promise you that. You add all of that together. And also, whenever Justin Tucker misses a field goal kick, I'm just like, oh, boy. Uh-oh. You know, it's all.

Things are like not always right in the universe. This is from my book of made up stats that I just made up, but the Ravens have never won a game where Justin Tucker misses a kick. Don't, don't check that. I'm not going to fact-check that because it feels true. It's true. Yeah. look, this Giants team is really, really, really fun. They're really resilient.

I have a ton of respect for what's happening with that team right now. You have a ton of backhanded compliments. Well, they were outgained 406 yards to 238. It is genuinely impressive to win that game. You got to have a lot of fight. You know, there's got to be a lot of fight in the dog for that to happen. It's just like the Giants are 5 and 1. Yeah.

that's all you can say about them. I don't want to spoil. I don't want to rain on your parade Giants fans. Like you should enjoy this. You guys have been through so much suffering. So I'm not going. I'm going to hold back my actual analysis and just say, enjoy this. Enjoy it for now.

Just have the right. Like the thing is to just have the right parade, right? Have the holy crap. I think we got the right coach in here. And all the guys are playing hard. And they're eking out these crazy wins. And they're doing it without any receivers. And, you know, Daniel Belanger has 38 yards.

he's the leading receiver. There's not a single explosive on offense. They're just finding ways to do it. Have that parade because that's cool and it's sort of crazy and it's fun to watch. Don't have the this is the year parade. That's a bad parade. Nobody believes in us. So.

Game ball to wink. Sorry to Don wink, Martinnell. Yeah, say the whole name. Say it. All right. Let me give my first loser. My first loser is a good.

Green Bay Packers who lost to the Jets 27 to 10. They are three and three coming off back-to-back losses to the Jets and the Giants. Now two games behind the Vikings in the division, which I don't know if you've noticed this, Stephen. There are not a lot of great teams in the NFL this year, particularly in the NFC. So the panic button is just not a thing that we have to worry a ton about because it takes a lot just in terms of records. and like often this is the point in the season where we start talking about,

well, they've done some good things, but at a certain point you just have a math problem. The math problems are going to be really different because no one's winning a lot of games except for like a couple teams. So that's not the issue for Green Bay. For me, the issue is that I cannot look at them and name a single thing that they're good at. Rogers looks old. The sauce pick, I mean, sauce gardeners having an incredible season.

and had another interception today. But that pick was Rogers' fault. It's easy to pin it on Dobbs as a rookie or just say that he got beaten. But Dobbs is breaking back inside and Rogers throws it outside him, leads to the pick. He's making that throw in part because they just don't have any receivers that can consistently separate. Offensive line got totally handled. They gave up four sacks.

Quinn and Williams was like one of the best players on any field. It seemed like. And good for him. But, you know, those guys up front aren't doing. the Packers any favors. And their defense would have had a solid game if only the first two quarters counted. But they ended up giving up 179 yards on the ground. And, you know, Brees Hall totally went off.

This is a team that drafted two front seven guys and still can't defend the run. And then special teams was supposed to be fixed after last season. And then they gave up a blocked punt touchdown. So it's fine to drop games in the NFC this year. Like, fine, whatever. but I'm not sure what phase of the game the Packers could look at right now and feel confident. And that's the thing.

Like when they got rid of Devante, it was like, okay, we're getting rid of Devante, but we're not paying him $30 million. And we're getting draft picks. So we're going to be able to improve in other areas of the game. That hasn't happened.

That improvement hasn't happened. The defense isn't any better. Like they can't stop the run. Like you said, Zach Wilson, I think, completed one pass over 10 air yards today. and they scored enough points to beat them comfortably.

It's not working the way it was supposed to. And I think we can already say that the Devante Adams trade is probably a bust because this team was, and I know it's like very... I think a bust on both sides. Sheel and I were talking about this last week. I mean, probably more so for the Packers. Yeah, because the Packers had something to win.

Like the Raiders, it was kind of just like, we might as well. do it. We're not going to catch the chiefs anyway. Like we might as well go for it. The Packers, the Packers, it was a decision. It was like, we could keep this team together or we could start over and try something different. They went with the different and the different just isn't working. And it starts with the defense, honestly. Like, you can't stop the run when you know they have to run. It's hard to play defense in this league like that. Even if you have good corners and even if the other team doesn't have a great passing game, like the Jets did not have a good passing game today.

And it did not matter. They moved the ball at will. And it's because this. this team is soft on defense. This team is soft. That's their biggest problem. And I don't know how you fix that mid-season. Mike Lafleur, winning the Lafleur Bowl. Better LaFleur. He's the better in LaFleur, man.

I wonder if instead of a trophy, it should be like a golden eyebrow plucking implement tweezers are what those are called, Nora. Yes. All right. You want to give me a loser so that I stopped talking about a facial hair? Yeah, my next loser is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They dropped to 3 and 3 after a 2018 loss to the Steelers and not just the Steelers.

The Mitch Trubisky led Steelers at the end there. He leads a touchdown to extend the game, extend the lead to eight points. The bucks drive down as Tom Brady typically does. But atypically, he did not complete a pass on the two point conversion. I think he targeted Chris Godwin. It was knocked away by Devin Bush. But this game came down to one thing and one thing only. They could not get the Steelers off the field on third and long.

Third and 11, third and seven. They had multiple like third and 10 plus and they just couldn't get the Steelers off the off the field. And that was the difference of the game. That and their failure in the red zone. And I have to say like when I watched the game, I didn't watch it live, but I kind of knew what was going on. And I just expected it when I,

watched it to see an offensive line that was getting dominated, that wasn't really the case. Like they were getting some pressure and there were some like ugly plays for the offensive line. But Tom Brady had plenty of time in the pocket. There's just, there's nothing over the middle of the field and he's not throwing the ball well right now. And it's kind of hard to tell what that is. Is it like he's not trusting his offensive line? Does he not trust the receivers? Is there not enough separation? Or is his arms starting to get a little weaker? It's starting to look like a 45 year old. Based on PFF's charting of his incompletions, he tied his career record for the most underthrows in a game. It only goes back the last four years.

But since he's gotten to Tampa Bay in his last year in New England, this is the most underthrows he's had in a game. And it was a lot of like dirted passes on driven throws to the middle of the field. And I don't think it's all on him. I think it's the receiving core in the tight end position specifically. He doesn't have grok. And he doesn't, he wanted that. He needs that big guy. in the middle of the field.

Now he's throwing like back shoulder fades to K. Dodden. Those plays aren't totally work out. Cambrate got hurt pretty badly. Yeah. And that was a scary one. He had a concussion two weeks ago. He gets cleared and then he takes another hit. But this is a, I think we kind of underrated Gronk's absence in this offense.

Like they can't run the ball because they don't have blocking tight ends. They're like playing different personnel groupings. They're not throwing to the middle of the field like they did with Gronk. they're running like shotgun RPO's. Like they have Tom Brady operating like he's a Mac quarterback. This is this offense is down bad right now, man. It does not work. Nothing about this offense works like it's supposed to work.

Not even the QB sneaks. Brady got stuffed on the QVys sneak. That really is. I mean, that is the Justin Tucker missing the field goal of any Tom Brady quarterback's team. And you said they can't run the ball. But the thing is that they're sure trying to because on first downs, they threw 13 times.

They ran it 15 times. And they got even more run heavy as the game went on. And when they are passing, it's all these dump-offs to Four Nett. Like his last four first-down passes all go to Leonard Furnett. They go for a combined 25 yards. The underthrow thing is really interesting because, you know, everything, every previous proclamation of Tom Brady, you know, falling off the clip and losing his arm strength has been wildly incorrect. not even overstated, just wildly incorrect.

However, he's not a spring chicken, so it's worth monitoring. I do think, though, that something you brought up earlier is, is my theory as to what, what's going on. I think even when that offensive line isn't giving up pressure, he's like preemptively feeling it. Like, I just don't think he has any trust in them. And so it's hand off, hand off, hand off, or like, dump off to Leonard Fernette, dump off to Leonard Fernette, dump off to Leonard for net. And sometimes, like with the two point, you do kind of get why he's that freaked out. Because when they try to run their normal drop back passing game, it's not great.

It's really disjointed. And he is taking a lot of pressure. So it's not an illogical response. But your answer can't be to have Tom Brady play like he's a Matt quarterback. Like Tom Brady can't, you can't have Kenny Pickett and Mitch Trubisky being the adult quarterbacks on the field when the other one is Tom Brady. Just like not allowed. Yeah. And I like I don't know what the answer is because they're going to have to find a personnel combination that works for them. I think they're going to have to stop playing like fullbacks

and tight ends and kind of go to like a spread spread them out style of offense kind of like 2007 New England Patriots. Sure. Like because their early down stuff just doesn't work. And they're doing that. They're putting like tight ends on the field and putting fullbacks on the field so they can run the ball. And I think if you're investing that much into the run game, which just isn't working at all, it's going to make everything else worse. Because like your play action isn't going to be as effective. And it just hasn't been this year.

I don't know what it is, but like maybe play more receivers and just like trust Tom Brady to not take sacks on early downs. I think that's like the smartest thing going forward. Right. I really don't think Tom Brady's the issue though. And I think like you said, not only is it like psychological, I think Tom Brady needs more space in the pocket as he gets older

because like the key to his arm strength has always been his like perfect mechanics. And if you're in a tight pocket, it's hard to have perfect mechanics. So like that's why the arm strength is always questionable with him because like even in this game, there are some, there's some throws where 25 year old quarterbacks aren't making them. Like he's making some high level throw still, but those always come from a clean pocket.

And when he has to move, that's when you start to see the shaky throws, the 45-year-old throws. Right. All right. Well, speaking of play action, my next winner is the Minnesota Vikings? And, Steve, actually, you pointed out to me this morning that there was Kirk Cousins MVP talk on NFL network before the games kicked off. I'm curious what's going to be going on there tomorrow because the Vikings, go out, they get to five and one, they're playing the dolphins, they're facing Skyler Thompson and Teddy Bridgewater, who's only supposed to be available on an emergency basis and who didn't

practice at all this week after his concussion. He did pass through the protocol, but not in time to practice. The Vikings went three and out 11 times. They were outgained 458 yards to 234 for the last four minutes of this game. Defense recovers a fumble and then Delvin Cook scored on a 53-yard run and they're now one of the three five plus win teams in the NFL. They have a two game lead on the Packers in the division. Is this real, Stephen? No. No, it's never real with Kirk.

It is never real with Kirk. And this is like kind of what I predicted. I brought it up on the Friday show. I said like Kirk is going to be an MVP talk after this week because they're going to win this game against a banged up Dolphin team. They're going to be five and one. And Kirk always puts up his stats. At the end of the year.

We have no choice but to make them a winner, right? Like, yeah, like we're, we're, we're being forced to put him in the MVP. Like, he's holding us hostage. He's like, you guys are putting me in the MVP talk, no matter if you like it or not, even if everyone knows deep down in their heart that I'm not an MVP and I will never be an MVP type player, you have to put me in because we're five and one and I'm going to put up good numbers because I'm Kirk Cousins. Just for the bits.

I hope he wins it. I would retire. It's okay. It's okay. You don't have to go there. I know it's too painful. It's not going to happen anyway. So I'm not worried. But like I feel so bad for the dolphins and Mike McDaniel because this is, I think this is the fourth game in a row where they've had to play the majority of a game with a different quarterback than they started it with. And like these are such different quarterbacks. Like Tua is a different quarterback from Teddy. Teddy's a different quarterback from Skyler Thompson. You would you do different things on offense. You have these three different quarterbacks in. And they just have to throw away. the game plan in the first half and like start over and like you said teddy didn't practice all week i'm sure the game plan was all like rookie maybe some gun run stuff like quarterback run stuff and then you get teddy in there and you just you have to scrap the whole plan but i i'm not taking anything from these last three weeks for the dolphins just been a bad break it might in the long run

prevent them from making the playoffs because like the margins are so thin in the NFL but i i still think this is a good football team that's closer to what we saw in those first three weeks than what we've seen in the last three. The dolphins pulled a variation on one of my favorite struggling football team moves, which was that they got rid of their locker room ping pong table, or at least Mike McDaniel said they did, until Tyree Kill then confirmed that they were actually just getting rid of it because it was kind of an old ping pong table,

and he wanted them to have a more tricked out cool ping pong table. Luckily, having a ping pong table in your locker room, doesn't matter. So this won't be an issue. But that was a good one. Yeah. Tyreek was like, actually we need a better ping pong table.

We just wanted an even more ping pong. Chill out. That's so good. All right. Who's your next winner? All right. My next winner is the Cincinnati Bengals. And they,

oh my gosh. Yeah. They beat the Saints. They beat a depleted Saints team. Andy Dalton played. I think they were missing their top three receivers. Chris Olave was a late scratch. Yep.

And after the game, Joe Burrow said, I think we know who we are now. They found themselves, Nora. They found themselves. They went soul searching. They found themselves. And what they are now is a team that doesn't go under center. Just no more. 52 out of 54 plays from the gun.

And the two plays, one was a QB sneak. You have to get under center for that. The other was a QB Neal. So this is exclusively a shotgun team now. And we talked early in the year, like the under center stuff and last year, the under center stuff just didn't work. like all the Sean McVeigh, all the Shanahan type offense stuff, the Zach Taylor stuff just doesn't work. This is kind of like an admission that Zach Taylor, like what do you do

around here, Zach Taylor? We're not even running your offense anymore. We've scrapped your offense. But I do think this is who the Bengals have to be going forward. And what they've done is they've replaced that the under center run stuff with shotgun RPO runs, which I think is a smarter move because that's like what Joe Burrow did at LSU. And it worked. really well and it's working really well right now. And it forces teams to bring a safety down, put another safety in the box. That's good. But when you're this offense that can only do one thing and you operate it out of the gun,

it kind of feels like the bills last year when they started struggling in the middle of the year because you knew they were going to pass the ball a bunch. And they could only run RPO when they ran. And we talked about like the bills being able to do so much stuff. The Bengals can only do like two things right now. and they're not getting those explosive plays like they did last year. So it's kind of like a worse version of what they were last year. And they were a 10 and 17 that almost lost to the Raiders on the wildcard weekend.

They almost lost to the Titans if Ryan Tanna Hill doesn't have a meltdown. So I don't know if this team is better than they were last year. They seem to be turning things around. But I don't know. I don't think the ceiling is as high as it was in 2021. I think that's right. but I do think that it's worth remembering that when they won, they won in ways that were sort of tenuous,

but also really awesome, right? Because one thing that this did, particularly you get that safety coming down to the box, have one less guy in the secondary to deal with, it helped them get the Burrow Chase connection working for 132 yards and two touchdowns, right? And a lot of those,

they're these crazy catches where he's covered. but instead of him being double covered if they have another safety that they can devote deep and really be focusing in on those plays, it does make a difference. And we've never seen this offense function in a way where it's like there's tons and tons of guys streaking wide open and it's all these easy completions. Like that's never been what they've done. That's not how they got to the Super Bowl. So I don't, I'm with you. I still think it's more disjointed than what we saw when they were really clicking during parts of last year.

But they're getting closer to what we've seen them thrive with before. So I think the fact that even when they didn't have those multiple ways of stressing defense, just the fact that those two playmakers are so good together, it helps. Yeah, it definitely helps. And like Chase was, he might have been the best player on the field today. His last touchdown wasn't even a downfield play. He caught it like a quick out and then broke a tackle, made Tyron Matthew miss and scored.

The one, I think there is another layer to the deep ball discussion with the Bengals. We talked about them seeing more too high and that's making things harder. But even last year when they saw a bunch of one high, they were still getting unsustainable production on those plays. You can't rely on how often they were just able to throw a ball up to T. Higgins and to Jemar Chase on the sideline and have them catch the ball. They are both very good players. Joe Barrow is one of the best players at throwing those back shoulder fades.

But even like Devante Adams and Aaron Rogers weren't that efficient on those passes. They were lucky on those plays last year and they're not going to be lucky in that same way. We've seen it this year. They've had opportunities over the last month or so to hit Chase down the sideline and Burrow hasn't hit them or Chase hasn't caught the ball. Those plays are just hard to pull off and they're just hard to live by. and you can't bank on them. I know that Bengals did it last year,

but like over the course of a full season, it's going to be tough. So like I appreciate Joe Burroughs saying, I think we found ourselves and like this is the type of offense we had to have. I think it's the type of offense they need to be for the rest of the season. I don't think it's the type of offense they want to be. And I don't think it was the type of offense they wanted to be when they made all these signings for the offense line with the theory that they would be able to run the ball.

Like you get L. Collins because he's a good run block or not because he's a good pass block. or they just don't have the run game. So they're going to have to be the same team they were last year. And that was like the question in the off season is like, are they going to evolve? They haven't evolved. If anything, they've devolved. So the new Bengals, same as the old Bengals, maybe. But that would probably be good.

I don't know. They made a Super Bowl. So who knows? Yeah. It worked out pretty well. I've got an L for you. Unfortunately, it's, it's for your guy, Trev and the Jacksonville Jaguar. They lost the Colts 34 to 27.

I actually don't think that this was like a horrible loss for the Jags, but they still have the honor of being the first Colts opponent not to get a sack on Matt Ryan, even though they had 58 dropbacks to do it on. It was kind of interesting how the Colts approached this game. They didn't have Taylor or Hines in the run game. So they went with this pass heavy approach. They were constantly in no huddle. and it actually ended up looking better.

They got contributions out of Pittman, Jackson, Paris Campbell, Alec Pierce, and looked like Ryan was able to sort of help out that offensive line that's been struggling so much just by getting rid of the ball really fast, moving everything really quickly. And it's funny because that's so antithetical to how we thought the Colts would be able to have a successful offense this season. I would certainly like to see it work more than one time, but it's interesting. You know, it's funny. It might end up being a little bit of a touchstone for how a team like the Bucks might have to try to play going forward. Yeah.

But the Jags certainly couldn't get anything going defensively to interrupt that, which I think was kind of disappointing. They need to get something more out of their past defense, especially if a porous offense. of line and Matt Ryan taking 58 dropbacks is going to be sort of what they have to work with. And then on offense, Doug Peterson and said it was a priority to get Christian Kirk the ball. He's been quiet the last few weeks. And that just didn't really change. He had four catches on five targets for 24 yards. So the passing offense and the past defense in Jacksonville just kind of seemed like they're spinning their wheels. Yeah. And like the bucks comparison is a good one. because I think like Matt Ryan has had the same problems that Tom Brady has where

Matt Ryan when he looks old, it's when he's under pressure. When he's not under pressure, he looks fine. But he looks really freaking old when he's under pressure. And they didn't get pressure on him. And I think like that quick passing game where you're, you're just doing it down after down and you're tiring out the pass rush.

Like that helps in the long run. And I think it helps them. Right. And I think this is just more proof that the Jags are a year away. Like one of the things they did so well at the beginning when they started two and one or whatever they were. They were rushing the passer. Their defensive line was dominating games. And we've seen during these losses, the defensive line is still very young.

And you can't bank on that dominance week to week with a young team. And it's same goes for the offense. This wasn't like a terrible game for the passing game. But it was like a conservative game for them. Trevor Lawrence, I think did he complete like 90% of his passes or something? Yeah, I think he was like 20 of 22. But his A dot was like five. So you need explosives and they're just not getting them.

They're not getting them in the passing game. And when you pay that type of money to Chris and hurt. They are getting them in the running game, which is funny. But yes, they're not getting them passing the ball. Yeah. And I think that they need more receivers, which is funny to say after their spending spree, they just spent $20 million a year on a receiver. They signed Zay Jones, but they don't have a downfield threat.

They sign Evan Ingram. But until they get a downfield guy, like, I don't think this offense is going to work like it needs to for this team to compete for the playoffs i'm concerned that there's like five different offenses in the afc or just like well they just they just need a downfield guy yeah robbie anderson man's trying to get out yeah exactly there's we were roby anderson bidding more all right last loser of the day all right my last loser we actually have like a bunch it's a whole division my last loser is the nfc west and oh man you remember when this was the best division Bigly, yeah.

The NFC West is like very, it's either like boom or bust. It's either the best division in football or like one of the most depressing divisions. And this year, it's been the latter. And Sunday didn't change anything. The one team that we had hope for was the 49ers. And they go into, they play Atlanta and they turn Marcus Marriota into Oregon Marcus Marriota. Like at one point he was 11 for 11 for like 150 yards and he had two passing touchdowns and a running touchdown. He finished the game 13 for 14 for 120.

yards and two touchdowns. Marcus Marriota. This was like a college football game. And that's what this Falcons offense has been. We've been talking about it every pod. Like Arthur Smith has turned this into his ideal offense. I feel like he doesn't want to do that drop back passing stuff. He wants to put fullbacks on the field. He wants to put tight ends on the field.

He wants to run the option. I think Kyle Pitts got a touchdown today the first time he had one on American soil in his, in his NFL career. It was a good day for the Falcons, but the 49ers. The 49ers, like, the hope was while Jimmy, you know, the Jimmy roller coaster plays itself out that you were going to be able to bank on this defense and Domeko Ryans and all these stars, they're just too banged up. They're just so banged. Nick Bosa doesn't play. Jimmy Ward doesn't play.

Eric Armstead didn't play. Chavarius Ward left with an injury and didn't return. They're just too banged up. Like, there's no analysis needed. They're just all their good players are hurt. Trent Williams has been out. I think Mike McGlinchie didn't play or he was questionable this week. I mean, no analysis needed.

It's just injured team. I don't know what you want Kyle Shanahan to do. But I think because the division is so bad, we saw the Cardinals lose today. The offense, once again, terrible. But they're getting DeAndre Hopkins back. And I wonder if that return changes this division race because I don't have confidence in any of these teams. Even the Seahawks, like, I love Gino Smith, but I don't expect this to continue with him. And it kind of has to with the problems on defense.

Who wins this division? Like, who's the favor right now? I still kind of think it's the 49ers. The most banged up team, too. Well, but if they can just get there by the end of the year. Oh, yeah. then I think there I just would still lean towards them at the very least they haven't lost as many guys to like season ending stuff I mean look the Rams got a win today but it sounds like Joe Note Boom's going to be out if not for the entire season that was that was ugly too that was not like a pretty win for them there's still the same opposite problems. McFay said it might be that they think it's Achilles which would probably be season ending and like the thing is if that's true.

you've got Alerick Jackson, who's going to play left tackle, having seen the last starter left, you're playing your fifth right guard, your third left guard, your third center, your second left tackle. You can't win games like that. It's just not happening.

So if the Niners get guys back, I would still lean towards them. The thing is that even if Hopkins makes a difference for Arizona, is he making enough difference? so that you go from putting three points on the board because the Cardinals also had a punt blocked for a touchdown to get to nine points. Three points against a defense that had given up 17 points to the Broncos,

27 to the 49ers, 27 to the Falcons, 45 to the Lions and 39 to the Saints. You can only get three points against that defense. I all love to DeAndre Hopkins, but you close in that entire gap by yourself. Is that really, really happening? it's probably not happening but I will say that he was the most important part of that offense when he went out last year kind of just all fell apart and we saw we know that Cliff only puts him on the left side of the field and losing him kind of like just made them have to rearrange the whole offense and I think that getting him back might make the pieces fall into place across the board so it could have a big impact but no this is not a good football team the problem is there are no good football teams in this in this division right now. The only thing close to it is the 49ers and they're so banged up.

I'm starting to think the Seahawks might be the best team in the division. If the 49ers remain banged up, I would not be surprised if they win it. Because the defense might get better. I trust Pete Carroll. I don't think the defense is going to be historically bad all season long. And the stat nerds have told us that like defensive performance is not very predictive. It's very much based on who you're playing the season. schedule of quarterbacks you're playing. So there's a good chance that they turn this around on defense. And I think the offense is good. As long as they don't fall into the trap, like the old

Pete Carroll trap of running too much. I think if they really lean into letting Gino Smith throw on early downs, throw when it's easiest to throw, that this team, this offense has a chance to be good all year long. And I don't know if you could say that about any other team in this division, which is crazy to say about teams coach by Sean McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan. Let Gino Cook. Let Gino Cook. All right, let's close with our non-headlined story of the week. And this one comes from the Patriots who continued. I think they're a little, you know, it's a little mini Patriot surge going on right now.

They beat the Browns 38 to 15 today. Quarterback controversy? The problem is, can you have a quarterback controversy when you can't tell the difference between the two quarterbacks? If they switch jerseys, it's just unbelievable. But yeah, so Bailey Zabby through for 300. yards and two touchdowns. Their entire rookie class did a lot for them. Taekwon Thornton caught both those touchdown passes, Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, helping the mountain coverage.

Cole Strange got the start at left guard. And then Brendan Scholar, an undrafted free agent special teamer, recovered a muffed punt. And he was so excited that he runs to the sideline. He's got the ball. And he runs over to Bill Belichick. And he tries to hand him. the ball, before he gets sort of shoot away by an assistant coach. And I am not the first person to make this joke, Stephen, but I want to ask you, because you are a cat owner. Has Rhonda ever, like, gotten hold of a mouse or anything like that and brought it to you as a gift?

She has not, but I've had, like, cats during my childhood do that many of times. This one cat used to just bring various dead rodents to our porch. It was an outdoor cat. And it was very good at hunting, apparently. But yes, I've had that experience before. And they sort of walk up to you and they're so proud of themselves. And they're so like, I have hunter gathered for you. And I have something to give to you.

And you're just like, that is a dead, bloody small animal. This is a little gross. That look was exactly how Bill Belichick looked at this poor kid who's like handing him this ball. And Bill's like, what do I look like a ball? boy to you. And it was just really, really funny. The video is priceless. And then after the game,

dear Brendan said, I was just trying to, it was obviously a big game for him coming back to Cleveland. So it was just a nice gesture. Coming back to Cleveland. I think I was a little too excited and I should have waited until after.

Coming back to Cleveland, what year does this guy think it is? Like 1997? That was like 30 years ago. Look, like Bill always makes a big, does make a big deal of that historical. stuff. So maybe he was just trying to suck up. Belichick did tie George Hallis for second all time on the career wins list 324. So maybe he was thinking about that, but just a very earnest

moment from our guy Brendan Scholar there, even though it was not greeted. Do you think Steve Belichick recognized that that look, that look of disappointment after schooler wasn't able to give him, wasn't able to get a tough one, Bill Belichick excited? I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I have a non-headline story I wanted to throw at you. All right. Let's do a mini episode of the island because I have a suggestion. And I want to know if you want to, if you would accept this. Okay.

So I don't know if you saw this, but during the Ravens Giants game, there was a kickoff where the camera, the sky cams started doing some weird stuff. Like it looked like like an action movie. The angle was changing during the kickoff. If you look on Twitter, you could find it. But here's my thing. it gave me an idea. We need an alternate broadcast on maybe on the Amazon Thursday night games where you have like a famous movie director shoot the game live. Like do like action shots. Who do you want doing it? Edgar Wright. You know Edgar right? He's like he's like he's like he does like cool

shots. I want like a cool director to do it. I don't want like some basic director to do it. I want someone that gives us like tracking shots on kickoffs like we saw during the Giants game. Look at that video. It's very cool looking. All right. I'll check it out. Yeah. But give us an alternate broadcast, Bezos.

I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. Maybe like, I would love it if we could get different aesthetics. Like, could we get like a, a Wes Anderson kind of vibe going with our games? That would be amazing. And then like we could have people score it, like have music in the background during the game. This is a great idea. I can't believe we're giving this away for free, Stephen.

All right. Are you on the island? I'm on the island. I'm on let. I think it should be a different director every week. So we, you know, get a bunch of big names in there, see what they do stylistically. I agree. Get Christopher Nolan to do one?

That would be great. All right. Well, you know, we'll table this idea for now. But see if we can get some guys on board. I like it. I'll make some contacts. Good stuff. This has been the Ringer NFL Sunday recap show. I'm Nora Prizziati. He's Stephen Ruiz. Next up on the feed, we will have Sheel and Ben with Extra Point Taken, their deep dive into week six.

Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for production on this episode with additional production supervision by Arjuna, Rample.