The Ringer NFL Show - Week 8 Recap: The Niners Beat the Rams Again, the Falcons Are Division Leaders, and the Raiders Get Shut Out | The Ringer NFL Recap Show

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Nora and Steven are joined by Ben Solak to discuss Christian McCaffrey and the rest of the 49ers' impressive performance on the road against the Rams (0:51). Then, Ben stays to discuss the crazy game in the NFC South that saw the Falcons beat the Panthers in overtime (26:02). Then, Nora and Steven get to their winners and losers from Week 8, including the Dolphins, Jets, Titans, and more (36:29). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Guest: Ben Solak Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Sunday edition of the Ringer NFL Week Cap show. I'm Norvon Tiotti. Week 8 Sunday is in the books. down all the action. As always, I'm here with Stephen Ruiz and Benjamin Solock. And we're going to start with the headline, which is Niners Rams. The San Francisco 49ers continued their dominant streak against the Los Angeles Rams winning 31 to 14 in a game where I think we finally saw, finally, it's been two games. But we really saw Christian McCaffrey's impact on this offense where he had a rushing, receiving, and passing touchdown.

Stephen, what did you see of how McCaffrey changes what the 49ers can do offensively in this game? I think what he gives them and gives Jimmy G. Most importantly is an outlet, a creative outlet late into a down, especially on third down. Because what Jimmy does, when Jimmy gets into trouble, it's when he's forcing throws on third down over the middle of the field. And I think with Christian McCaffrey underneath, and we saw this several times in obvious passing situations, he was hitting the checkdown

every time taking that safe throw. He still managed to throw into coverage a couple of times, and Jaylor Ramsey missed two interceptions. Yeah. But we don't need to focus on that. We don't need to dwell on the negative. We need to dwell on the positive. And like Christian McCaffrey option routes out of the backfield, like Kyle was just spamming them all day. And I think it just adds another layer to the offense that it's an offense that needed another layer. Because what we expected in the offseason was Trey Lance was going to come in. They were going to change the nature of the offense.

And what I think kind of was prevented is them taking the Jimmy G offense, which they didn't think they were going to have to run and evolving that. And I think Christian McCaffrey kind of just does that naturally. And now missing out on that offseason

of developing a new offense or evolving the offense for Jimmy G. I think this takes care of it. So they made the trade in the first game against Kansas City, McCaffrey touches the ball 10 times. Seems like that was just sort of a little bit of a warm up. He had 25 touches today against the Rams.

Obviously, the other team that was interested in the McCaffrey sweepstakes was none other than the Los Angeles Rams. Ben, I know you have very funnily talked about the Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, frenemy situation. Did you get any of that watching this game play out and McCaffrey obviously have such a big day in a Ninerswood. Did you catch the pre-the pre-game, like the ESPN did like a promo and Schaefter was sitting at a table with Nick Bay, Shanahan, and the floor.

I'm so glad you're bringing that up. I didn't watch it, but I saw like stills of it online where they seemed to be in like a room so dark it should have been a house of the dragon episode. They were a cabal. They were like planning like overtaking another drug lord's territory or something. It was very much so like meeting of the criminal mind sort of set and vibe. I didn't watch most of it. I like watched enough of a clip to be like,

this is weird and then roll on. Like they had Schefter at the head of the table with McVeigh on one side and the floor and Shanehan on the other, which really makes you feel like the most important person in the room is Adam Schefter for some reason. And then he was just like asking them like, hey, like what's it like to know each other and have coached together, but now not be coaching together.

He would be asking, like, anybody in the NFL this. And, like, Sean kept on, like, trying to make a joke and, like, it wouldn't land. And, like, LaFleurbing on Kyle's side was weird because he worked under McVeigh. Like, that's who he actually worked for. I mean, he was there to mediate, right? Yeah. Like, he was there in case of this night broke out. Yeah.

So, uh, in terms of, like, pregame Schefter Showdown sweepstakes, don't really know who won there. Don't care to find out. In terms of McCaffrey sweepstakes. I care. Yeah, Shanahan, obvious winner. And then in terms of this game, Shanahan, obvious winner as well. I agree with Stephen in the sense that, like, McCaffrey represents an opportunity to evolve this offense further that Tray Lance hope would have provided, hopefully, over the course of this season, but was lost due to Tray Lance's injury. We also, like, have yet to see McCaffrey installed in the offense plus Debo, right?

And what that's going to look like once you fold Debo back into the fold hamstring injury for Debo. Yeah. Yeah. They want to be careful with Diva with the hamstrings so they keep them on the shelf. What's cool is that that let us see what this would be like. And McCaffrey was the primary feature if he was the primary target getter, which he was. Like Ayuk was healthy and Kittle was healthy. But McCaffrey had a 35% target share, which led Niners receivers.

This is from Dwayne McFarland. He had a 72% route participation, which is an absurdly high number for a running back. It's how many passing players are you running a route on? right, and he ran a route on more than seven out of, out of 10 passing plays. That's ridiculous. He was in on 86% of their long down and distance snaps. He was on 100% of their short yard snaps, 100% of their snaps inside the 10-yard line.

This, every, they tried to get them on as many plays as they could. And on the really important plays, he was always on the field. And you saw how valuable that was on the third and three touchdown throw to the back pylon where that play doesn't happen without a back of Christian McCaffrey's receiving caliber. And I don't know if there's a back. of Christian McAfee's receiving caliber, not named Alvin Kamara elsewhere in the league. That's one of one, maybe two players, and you get that opportunity with McCaffrey. And that

ends up being a huge score, right? Because you have to remember, like, this was still a one score game at the time of that catch. You know, this final score, 17 points looks really big. Niners dominated the second half. And McCaffrey's ability to move the sticks from them. He had second and fives he converted. He had a third and seven that he converted when they were down by seven. That ability to move the sticks in the past game like Stephen brings up really, really critical. And that touchdown, it wasn't just the instinct to break into the end zone, which I don't think a lot of running backs would have. It's the catch. That catch, he not only got the catch, got his feet down, but he also protected himself from a big hit.

That could have jarred the ball loose. I think a more inexperienced receiver or one that doesn't have the instinct that McCaffrey does probably takes a big hit there and probably doesn't catch the ball. So we've seen one game of kind of warm up mode. we've seen one game of McCaffrey really being the feature back involved in all facets. What does this look like, Ben, maybe you can answer first. And Stephen, I'm curious if you have thoughts. What does this look like with a healthy Debo Samuel in the mix? So yeah, you saw a lot of pony personnel in this game, which is two back looks.

Jeff Wilson, who was the primary running back before the McAfee trade, given the fact that a lodge of Mitchell was injured and McAfra in the field at the same time. They really started to experiment with this idea of Jeff Wilson as the H-back. Jeff Wilson, who's like, Lissas are running back on the depth chart, as a guy who, like, lines up in a tight-end position, like goes in jet motion, like lead blocks. They started screwing around with this last year against the Rams in October. They kind of rolled it out as a new package. Rams didn't really know how to match and they were getting nice runs out of it. The Rams run a front, right, in tight front, you know, whatever you call. in the NFL where you got these three interior players inside of the tackles.

Hard to run in the B gaps, the gaps, the gaps between the guards and the tackles against this, this tight front. And so you have to get into the C gaps. You have to run your C gap, your power stuff. You got to move guys out. The Niners from that toss player where they lead block with two tight ends, all to get to that C gap, get outside of the tackle. Wilson moving around is a big part of that in terms of getting lead blockers on the edge,

the McAfric can take an advantage of, right? So you see that going on and you just are thinking in your head, okay. That's 22 right there. That's Jeff Wilson as the H-back. Moving around in the back to the back foot a little bit, lead blocking. Maybe he gets a pass here. Maybe he gets a screen.

Kind of interesting. Imagine if it's 19. Who's just better at running and receiving and blocking? That's a little bit better, you know. And so there's stuff that you've seen that's going to just improve because Debo's there. And then it's the split-back gun stuff that's really going to get nasty. Like the touchdown that McAfrey threw was out of the split-back gun look where Jimmy Cropos is in the gun.

He has Jeff Wilson to his right. He has Christian McCaffrey to his left. There's the ability to run outside zone. in both directions because they are the only team in the league that gets to run outside zone from the gun and make it work, which is the ultimate cheat code of all time. They can run the inside zone bubble RPO, which is what that McAfree touchdown looked like, right? It looked like, okay, maybe we hand it off to Jeff Wilson, maybe we throw a little bubble route to Christian McCaffrey. They run that with Debo Samuel, like that's the sort of stuff that gets super, super

exciting. It's not even about the plays, though, like the formations. It's about when Debo's on the field and Eustick 2, they can just go hurry up no huddle whenever they want and get into every formation that's ever existed. They can go gun empty and then hurry up no huddle and get Debo and Ushik and McCaffrey all in the backfield and have three guys in the backfield. Nobody, nobody, nobody gets even remotely close to getting to do that. And the Niners get to do that once they do, watching them like get into their series plays, get into their like scripted stuff and go hurry up no huddle.

That's just like, I don't even know where you, what you bite off first of your defensive coordinator in terms of handling that. So that's, I think, the final form of this offense is when they get to go hurry up. and they get to keep your same defensive personnel in the field and then just hammer away. And I would say like having McCaffrey on the team seems to have unlocked a part of their shotgun offense that they might not have wanted to lean on in the past.

And they ran shotgun on 66% of their run down plays. So that's like first and 10, second and less than seven. That's not a Kyle Shanahan offense that we're used to seeing. And I think that just adds another thing that the defense has to prepare for because they can run outside zone. They ran a little bit of pistol, which they've never run with Jimmy G before. Yes, very good point. And I think that is like a sign of what's to come.

I think the pistol's going to be a factor in this offense, even though we knew it, we thought it would be with Lance and it was. But then when Jimmy G came back, you just assumed they would go back to their traditional offense. They're going under center. But we're seeing something different. And I think that was the key for this offense after Tray Lance's injury is to find something different. because they were struggling on offense.

Their defense was carrying them over the first month or so. And now we've seen the offense start to unlock. And I think Christian McCaffrey was a big part of that. And I think, like, that's a general theme for this whole season is that having star players, star skill players, seems like it matters more this year than any year in the past, where we've kind of seen quarterbacks carry an offense. And then now it seems like Brady and Rogers are the best example. I still think they're not playing poorly.

Like Rogers is playing poorly compared to his MVP seasons, but he's still playing like a top 10 quarterback. And top rate, he's still playing like a top 10 quarterback, but their supporting cast gives them no chance at times. And we're seeing quarterbacks like Tua, Jalen Hertz, even Marriota have put up good numbers because they have these players around them that kind of do the heavy lifting. And I think part of that is the changing nature of defenses. is defense is they figured out a way to win the numbers battle over the last two years. That's been the big thing we've talked about. The two high stuff, they've sold out to stop the passing plays and the deep passing plays. And I think that's where you see the skill gap between quarterbacks are the passes down field.

Now I think it's about getting the ball to playmakers in space underneath and letting them do the heavy lifting. And the teams that are able to do that have star players at receiver, at running back, side end. Well, or or an athletic quarterback, right? Like, isn't that sort of what's, what's interesting about this 49ers offense is that they are able to do this in this way when it's Jimmy Garoppolo going 21 to 25 for 235 and, and two, but not being, you know, like Josh Allen is a superstar quarterback, right? Like, there are superstar quarterbacks currently doing incredible things on, on offenses and as part of offenses. but they have the ability to affect the game on the ground.

And it does seem like where San Francisco is right now is they've found ways to do that with, you know, the quote unquote system quarterback who doesn't move around back there a lot. And adding someone like McCaffrey feels like proof of concept of that and in this, you know, everybody can run with the ball. Everybody can catch the ball offense that. to Ben's point is just so multiple and particularly when they get Debo back doesn't need to sub that the number of things that you have to prepare for is just so high even when it's a Jimmy back there which is the part that I think is most oppressive. Kyle Shanahan had a guest

spot on Chris Sims' podcast like two years ago and it was like one of the best Kyle Shanahan interview. You're a total sicko. It's one of the best Shanahan interviews I've ever heard because he kind of explains why his offense. That's because he and Chris Sims. It always bears repeating, have tattoos on their ankles of what another's initials. Because there has nothing to do with this. That has nothing to do with this. It has everything to do with that.

It has so many things to do with it. Please continue. Okay. Kyle Shanahan, it basically explains why his offense is so good. And he explains that like he has the five eligibles. And his offense, he's able to do a little bit of things because he can put those five eligible anywhere on the field. And like, this is like the super version of that.

He's like Ben alluded to you. He has Debo Samuel who could go in the backfield, go in the slot, go outside. He has Christian McCaffrey, who is a running back who can go out in the slot and win on a route. He has George Kittle, who is a tight end, a great blocker, basically a six lineman out there. He could win downfield. You can give him the ball. You can put the ball on his hands and he can create. You have Brandon Ayuk.

You have all these pieces. I think, holy smokes, man. Iyuk is so much better of a blocker than I ever thought he'd be. It's so huge for this team, especially with Nodivo. It's like, I don't know what, like the whole Kyle Shanahan doghouse thing is nuts, but it worked on Iyuk, man. He's, he's night and day what he was when he first arrived in terms of that. He's blocking his effort on running downs. There's just like sleds in the doghouse.

Yeah, but that's the first time the dog house really worked, right? With the receiver. It's the only time the dog house. Dante's had to be flying for Chicago Bears. But that, that positionless player's point from Stephen is so important, right? In terms of like five eligibles, but they can all do. different things. There's no such thing as a positionless player. Because if there's just one and the other four dudes are static, then I know what the fifth guy's doing, right? Like,

Debo Samuel is a positional's playing. You play running back and play wide receiver. Well, if you put him on the field with like, Darren Waller, awesome player, but I know where he's going to line up. I know what he's going to do. The field with Brandon Cook's awesome player, but put him on the field. I know what he is. I know he's going to do. Derek Henry, then I can figure out where Debo's going to fit. Because I know all all the other guys, I know what they have to do to succeed, right? See entries under the Arizona Cardinals. Right, exactly. You become siloed.

You become static. So now the value of the positionless player is lost because he doesn't confuse me as much. I can process of eliminate his role and be like, all right, he's generally going to do this stuff. There's a limit to that, obviously. Like, McCaffrey's a good receiving back always has been. But once you introduce a second positionless player, Christian McCaffrey, and then like your 0.5 positionless player and like Kyle Eustich, who like doesn't have the same impact, but can line up a bunch of places.

George Kittle's similar thing, right? He's a true wide tight end. You can get him in the line of scrimmage. And then you can line them up out wide. You can win one-on-one. Like now there's a compounding effect. There's a multiplication where it's like, oh, you guys really are positionless. That's very difficult to handle.

The thing that this game brings me back to, and this current era of Kyle Shanahan brings me back to, Stephen brought up the points of defense that made the numbers work in terms of passing down field and now you have to get the ball to your playmakers and have them do the heavy lifting for you. The other thing is just you've got to be able to run the football, right? You don't want to get too, like, you know, old smash mouth got to run the football. But you have to be able to take advantage of light boxes with the running game. Otherwise, teams are just going to run light boxes on you forever.

And it's going to be very difficult to do anything else. You remember when Sean McVeigh had the greatest running game in the NFL? Remember when that was the thing? It was like Todd Gurley, offensive player of the year. Yeah. And then, oh, teams caught up to the 11 personnel wide zones. Now we run 12 personnel inside zones. you know, zones, windback, we run duo.

There was like innovation under center. Like that whole offense worked. He grabbed Stafford. Stafford necessitated a little bit more of a spread out gun offense. And that was largely to the Rams benefit, right? Let's not mistake that like that was a good thing that improved their offense. They won a Super Bowl in the back of that offense. However, if you asked me to define what split McVeigh and Shanahan over the last couple

years, it's that Shanahan found a way to continue innovating the running game and Sean didn't. and if defenses had not caught up to football the way they had, and there were still so many advantages to be gleaned in the passing game, it wouldn't matter as much. If the Rams' offensive line stayed way healthier and could protect Matthew Stafford on any third and long, because they can't right now, it wouldn't matter as much. There's other mitigating factors.

But the one sentence answer is, yeah, Sean, they can't run on early downs. They can't run their way into third and short, which means they have to go stand or drop back, and they're not suited to do that right now because they can't pass for deck. They cannot. Ronnie Rivers and Malcolm Brown were the two leading rushes for this team.

They can't run the football. They are the worst running team in terms of like my general experience of them in the league. And that's shocking relative to where Sean McVeigh was five years ago and relative to this tree from which he came. It's most stark when he plays Kyle

and you just see the way that Kyle so successfully gets nine yards for Jeff Wilson. And you're like, all right, Sean can't do that. And right now, that's, that's the one sentence difference between the two of them. How dare you say he doesn't innovate? Ben Scoronic at fullback. That's innovation, baby. Yeah, like people were like, wow. No one says innovation is good. Right. It's like, this is incredible. This will solve all the problem. Can we talk about the down bad moment of the, the down bad moment of the week for Sean McVeigh? He called the draw play. They were down 17 points on like third and long with five minutes left in the fourth quarter. He calls a draw play to Ronnie Rivers. that's got to be the saddest call ever.

Adjacent to that, they were, I think it was when they were still down 10, and they had a fourth and three, and they didn't go for it, and they punted. And then Kyle walked down the field, hit scored touchdowns on those last two drives, and scored another one, and they were down 17,

and the game was over. When will either one of these coaches learn that sometimes you just have to go forward on fourth down relatively early, especially against one another? These are the games you need to win. Also, when will a broadcast network learn that I would pay good American dollars

for just a sideline cam on both coaches' faces in a box at all times of this game. Not for everyone, but for these two, the whole time. With Matt Lifford commenting over it. Yes. I don't know what the number is. I'll have to think about it, but it is more money that I'd pay for a blue checkmark on Twitter.

That's for sure. We have been praising Kyle, but can I criticize him for giving Christian McCaffrey three unnecessary carries with three minutes left when they're out? Like I just said, McFey's calling Dr. all plays on third and log. Like the game's over.

The Rams are waving the white flag. If we're talking about that, we should also talk about Cooper Cup being in the game late in the fourth quarter when it's over and getting hurt. That's even worse. And Sean saying after the game, I was kicking myself for not calling a run while he was in. Sean, kick yourself for something else.

Him being in. It's the scheme boys. I'm telling you. Like maybe shot, maybe forget about like that play you called in Washington on third and four. Like, clear that case. Clear that and learn how to use timeout to not put your best player in danger.

How about that? Stop memorizing the Bears lineup. I got to clear the hard drive a little bit. Yeah. Matt, it's a Brable and Sean McVeyer like meeting before a game. And Sean's like, yeah, I remember 2016, you guys on a second 11, you ran a jet motion to protective.

Brable's there like, I think if we're winning by a lot, I'll bench Derek Henry. Right. That's different speeds for the two. There's no room for common sense in there. There's just no room. Can I hear my final moment on this game, Christian McCaffrey touchdown pass to a 34-yarder, Brandon I, Youke, wonderful play. It was a 30-yard pass outside of the numbers, 30-air yards outside of the numbers. Who would like to guess the last completion Jimmy Garoppolo had of 30-plus air yards outside of the numbers?

Oh my God, I was going to look this up because I remember him not throwing outside the numbers downfield was a thing, and I'm glad you did it. the last time he did it? Yes. I don't know. I think he definitely had one in this game, though, because I remember noting, and I'd be like, oh, that's going to ruin the joke. That's correct.

Jimmy Garoppelos only career throw completed outside of the numbers, more than 30 yards down the field with the San Francisco 49ers, I should specify. So in his career with the Niners, his only completion, more than 30 yards on the field, outside of the numbers, came in this game after McCanness.

Afri did it because it was the Ross Dwelley throw where they jumped the out route to Brandon Ayyuk and Jimmy still nearly threw it and then he was like, wait a minute, no. Nobody's on Ross Dwelly and then he launched a 30-yard bomb outside of the left numbers to Ross Dwelly. Before that, he had never in a San Francisco 49ers uniform completed a pass more than 30 yards down the field outside of the numbers. That's insane. Titan of industry. That's unbelievable. Phinex King.

He is my idol. All right. My last point on this game is just as we've discussed the many beefs of the McVe-Shannahan tree. Did you guys know that Jalen Ramsey and Robbie Gould had beef? Of course. Robbie Gulls. Robby Gulls is a tough son-a-gun. This was...

Where do you stem from? I actually don't think that this was news to me. I think this is like information that I'd purged for my brain hard drive, which definitely doesn't remember what anybody did at Washington in week four of 2016. But I was just so delighted to learn this. I am so here for anyone involved in either of these two organizations, just like really disliking each other. I didn't know when all the back to 2016.

I remember the 2019. That was like Niners range. Oh, oh, I was being hypothetical. Oh, you're making up here. This is just the 2019. I was like, holy stuff. That would be nice, though. That would be fun.

I wish. All right, any final thoughts on this one? I think we've just about covered it. Yeah, the only thing I'll say is like, if there's a record for screen passes in a game, the Rams might have broken it today. They threw so many screen passes. It's very clear that Sean McVeigh just wants to do anything

to avoid having this offensive line blocked for more than two seconds. Sometimes it works against the way Rahim rushes, you know, right? Not the Rahim, excuse me, the way the Domeko sends his blitzes, but eventually they dialed in pretty quick. I mean, I don't think Stafford got hit in the first half. they did get Brian Allen back. You know, that was more of a matter of relying on the screen game and trying to get it out quickly. But still, it's better than it has been in some ways.

They got Alan Robinson involved a little bit more. That's two games in a row. He's made some sort of impact. So it's not like, I don't want to sit here and be like the Rams literally did nothing well. But some of that stuff was from the darkest timeline. after those two touchdowns, they didn't do much well. Yeah, they got outscored 24 to nothing after those two touchdown. Best team in the NFC is the Eagles.

Second best team in the NFC is the... It's the 49ers. Cowboys? It's the 49ers. I also think it's the 49ers. I wanted to give room to Cowboys. I definitely think it's the 49ers. Copy that.

All right. I'm glad we're on agreement. 49ers coming off of losses to the Falcons and to the Chiefs. I just feel like the arrow was down. But every time I watch this team, I'm like, yeah, this is a, a January team. I cannot tell you why. Like, I cannot give you a good reason.

If the Cowboys and the Seahawks were to play each other, my heart would want to pick the Seahawks. Dan Quinn Revenge game. That's all I'm going to say on the matter. I haven't thought of it. I think I would... I'm just saying I would really want to do it.

I'm with you. I think I would pick Seattle. All right. So, normally this is the time when we say goodbye to our friend Benjamin Solac and Stephen and I start winners and losers. However, earlier during the day when we were planning this show, Ben mounted a spirited argument for Falcons Panthers to be our game of the week. So we're going to keep Ben around for the first Winners and Losers segment.

And he's going to talk a little bit about Falcons Panthers, which he was very excited to do. All right. So let's start with Winners and Losers. Ben is going to make his cameo and kick us off after saying that Falcons Panthers was his very favorite game of the week. Ben, you have the floor. Firstly, winter Atlanta Falcons, this was the battle for the NFC South, which means we could have had winner Carolina Panthers leader of the NFC South at 3 and 5,

which I admit would have been better from a content perspective. But I continue to really like this Falcons team. They pissed me off because their run-pass ratio is at times frustrating, and by at times, I mean, during the entire Bengals game, they decided to walk out against the Panthers and just like try some first-intest, passes, which is like, sweetie, we should have thought of this last week. That would have been really helpful. But whatever.

That doesn't go so well. They're actually looking pretty poor in the first quarter. But then rallied very, very nicely. Mariotta had one of his best days as a Falcon 20 for 28, 253 yards, three touchdowns, two picks. The second pick came in overtime. Should have lost them the game. The first pick was like the second play of the game.

You launched a one-on-one ball down the field and didn't win the 50-50. But the second pick was a bad one. Should have lost the game for them. This is the second kick that Eddie Pinheiro missed. The first kick that Eddie Pinheiro missed was the greatest moment of the week, which was DJ Moore catching. The longest pass ever recorded by NGS thrown by Philip Walker. Yes, sir, PJ Walker, 67.5 air yards.

Feels good. DJ. Yes. Directly in the breadbasket over two defenders. In stride. This was no like Kyler Murray, Dianjord Hopkins, Hill Mary Heave nonsense. There's no Jeff Janice moment. This was like, oh, DJ Moore's running down the field.

Let me hit him on both palms from my own 35-yard line. Incredible throw. DJ Moore, for everybody who I'm sure saw, pulled his helmet off, immediately celebrated if he had won the game, because to be honest, he did. And then got penalized for that, 15-yard penalty. Eddie Pinero now has to attempt a 48-yard, I think it is now, right? 48-yard extra point. And misses that, and then misses another.

another kick in overtime that was even closer, and the Falcons end up winning it. The summary of the game aside, the Falcons offense is to this point extremely trustworthy. The only game in which they have not cleared the total, the biggest set for them to score in offensive points, was that Bengals game, which they scored 17. For as frustrating as this thing looks, for as ugly as it is to be run by like Caleb Huntley and Demir Bird, the offense is functional. Arthusmus ability to get a good running game from a variety of looks is right now, like it goes Kyle Shanahan and then Arthur Smith in terms of run game designers.

And then they got Kyle Pitts touchdown. They got a couple Drake London conversions. Like they don't use their star pass catchers as much as we might have hoped they would. Well, because they just don't use the passing game very much. Yes. But when they use them, like London is playing well and Pitts is playing well. I think general fantasy disappointment should not bury the lead, which is that they drafted London at eight overall or nine overall. And they got a good player at nine overall.

They got what they bargained for. They should throw it to him more, but his talent is what they need. Same thing applies to Bits being drafted up for a role last year. So Falcons now first place in the NFC South. The loss to the Bucks, kind of ugly and frustrating, but Chargers next week, Panthers, Bears, commanders, Steelers, is not that tough of a schedule. Atlanta's in a position to play a home playoff game. I don't see the Bucks getting that much better anytime soon.

I don't see the Saints being a consistent team. Weird stuff against the Raiders aside. Falcons spot in the driver's seat of the AFC South is to me not like a, oh, a funny thing that happened in the middle of the season. To me, that's, that's legit. I think this team is could be better than they are, but the proof of the point is in the Eaton. This offense is really, really tough to stop for any given defense. I trust him. So is this, is it looking like this with, okay, Marriotta drops back 28 times? Is that kind of the right balance of what this looks like? Because obviously, they don't want

him to be throwing 45 times a game, right? Like that Bengals game was frustrating. We obviously are also not advocating for them to run an offense like they have Joe Burrow at quarterback. However, because they do have such good, good pass catchers, I'm curious, like, where do you think the right balance is? Is this what it looks like? I would say it honestly is probably even less.

28 attempts is a little bit inflated because of overtime, right? So he had some more reps than you would expect them to. And then also they were in this kind of back and forth game. script for much of it. We also have to remember that we haven't seen them with Cordero Patterson in the back foot for almost a month now. And for like as they've gotten good games out of Caleb Huntley and Tyler Alger, Patterson is multiple tiers better than both of these backs. And I think that when Patterson is back, you'll see more of the Mario de-designed run option game and you'll see more of the Patterson running game. And you'll honestly see them be a little bit more, uh, they'll be able to

sustain more drives running the football without having to have Mario to drop back. Morrida takes a lot of sacks, those lot of picks. Like this was one of his best games passing in this game because he had like good yards after the catch and like he had good moments in terms of when it was late and like getting like a key conversion and yada yada whatever but in general like a handoff in the arthur spell offense is remarkably safer than a mariotta passing attempt and while that typically isn't not enough of a reason to run the football they've shown that it works what they do need is a is a target distribution check in Kyle Pitts had nine targets on the day lovely the second leading target getter was demure bird I don't

don't love that as much. And that's where I feel like you want to be designing stuff for Drake London, right? Like they don't really have an actual speed field structure to really take advantage of like when they go over the top of stuff. They try to use Burr. They use the Lomadee Zakias earlier in the year. Neither one of those guys are great. If Brandon Cox is available out of Houston, he makes a lot of sense in this offense. I just think that if I think that they should continue to be a relatively like low pass split team. It's who they throw the ball to that should be changed. This team was bringing up. Star players are what's defining offense. right now. You want to concentrate your targets in the passing game. Look at Jalen Waddle and Tyree

Hill. They're responsible for like over 60% of the production of the Miami passing game right now. Mike McDaniel knows where his bread is butter. Look at the AJ Brown game that he just had in Philadelphia. Like get a guy who's a star and go. The Falcons could have that player in Kyle Pitts. They need to change their distribution so that they're when they do have their past targets, they're going to the correct players. Yeah, I think it's a matter of like figuring figuring out how to do that within the structure of the run game, which can be tough. But I do trust Smith to eventually figure it out. I really liked how he used Kyle Pitts last year down the stretch.

So I know he has it in him. I know that the fantasy production isn't there, but we've seen him utilize him well in the past. I don't think that's gone away. And honestly, I think this game was just a matchup where you do want to, you do want to attack the Panthers through the air. They do have a very good run defense. Derek Brown in the middle of it.

It's very good. It's hard to run on them at times. And I think they're top five in run EPA on defense. And they're like 19th and past defense. So it kind of makes sense to give Marriota a few more chances. I do think I'm not ready to say this is the best team in the division because I think the bucks are going to figure something out. I don't think they're going to figure it out to the point where they're Super Bowl contenders

again. But I still think they have the most talent. And maybe it's a coaching staff. thing with them that's holding them back. I don't know if they have the capacity to turn it around, but with Tom Brady there, I just think it's going to get better eventually. The Saints have the best point differential in this division. So I wouldn't count them out either.

My general summation of how I feel about the Saints. What's so funny is the Panthers, by not winning that game, they were going to be in first place if they won that game. They are now in last place. They are now two and six with the worst point differential. It's like just the total. They've got the third pick in the draft. If they hit a field goal, they're winning the NFC South.

They miss it. They miss another one. They now have the third pick in the draft. Great year. Awesome football year. Stephen as a resident panthers fan, what did you think about the DJ Moore penalty? It was fine. Like, it's probably the best thing.

We still have that moment of excitement. Like when that play happened, it felt like they won. Like Ben said it felt like they won because they did. This was all for the best. I think this was all for the best. that's right. Yeah. And that was like the 13th pass that PJ Walker has thrown DJ Moore this year, which means that's the 13th accurate pass DJ Moore has seen this year. So I'm kind of okay with him being like, yay. I'm so excited. Yes. You like, I cannot emphasize enough how clearly better, not close,

clearly better PJ Walker's play is in Baker Mayfield. It's not in the same. He could scream, man. DJ Walker looks great. Accurate contested balls, Leviska, Shinald, Terrence Marshall, cover two honey hole. Like these are grown man throws. Baker Mayfield would have pump, pump, pump, drop off to Christian McCaffrey,

get mad at his left tackle. Like, it's just two different worlds. If he was throwing a Christian McCaffrey on today, that would have been interesting. But I would not put it past Baker Mayfield to overthrow past that badly. I'm just saying what Baker was doing earlier in the season when McCaffrey was still on the team.

Yeah. We got to get AJ Terrell back, and then I think this Falcons team will really start to look legit because they haven't had AJ Trell last two weeks. They've given up 31 and 34 points. It's a very frail defense in Atlanta. It is highly conditional on AJ Terrell being extremely good at his job. They have no depth behind him. And DJ more even before the Big Bomb was having a great day.

And so the most important thing for the Falcons right now is getting the secondary healthier before they have to do the, they get the charges. They do the Panthers again. And like, you know, they're going to give up 20, 24 plus points pretty much every week until the second day gets healthy. All right. I found the slacks. Ben, you had said, please, please. And then in all caps, please, Falcons Panthers game of the week.

This is my favorite football game. You did not disappoint. Thank you so much for joining us. We will release you to your many Eagles duties. But thank you very much. Go birds. All right, Stephen. let's keep it going. Who is your first winner of the day? My first winner is the Miami Dolphins.

Another huge game for this offense. It was kind of a game they needed to have because since that fourth quarter of the Baltimore game, we really haven't seen this offense explode, but they win 31 27. Tua has a huge game, 29 and 36, 382 yards, three touchdowns. Tireke Hill, 188 yards. Jalen Waddle went over 100 yards. He had two touchdowns. But, This, for me, the big takeaway, I know two was, he had big numbers, he's going to be MVP talk again this week. But Mike McDaniel, man, Mike McDaniel, he's my front runner for coach of the year. And I know there was that stretch where they lose three games in a row. But you have to add in the context that every single game during that streak, the quarterback they ended the game with was not the quarterback they started with.

And we've seen when they've been able to put together a gameplay and have the same quarterback play the whole game that this offense is very dangerous. And I think you have to say the Tariq trade is the best move of the offseason so far. And there was a lot of concern about that. Not only like were they training for a player that the Chiefs might have thought was like on the downtrend? Did they trade for a receiver that wasn't going to mesh well with this quarterback that they were giving another chance? Was Mike McDaniel the coach? Did he have enough experience to get the most out of this supporting cast? And the answer to every single question has been yes.

Like everything has worked out. And I think Mike McDaniel does. deserves a lot of credit because this, it's not like he brought the Kyle Shanahan offense over to Miami and just hit copy and paste. Like this is a different version of it from what we've ever seen. He really leaned into, uh, leaned into two of strengths. They're calling RPO's a lot. They're calling a lot of play action from the gun, which you don't see in San Francisco. And then they're just utilizing the speed of these players to take advantage and create mismatches all over the field. the touchdown to Gisiki,

I think it ended up being the game winner. They have Jalen Waddle in the backfield. He goes out in the flat. It gets a linebacker on him. That's one mismatch on the other side of the field. They have Tyree Kill underneath. The lines double team him, so that's two players on him,

and that leaves Gisiki wide open. They just use those two players so well and put so much pressure on the defense that there's so much space in the passing game that it doesn't matter what Tua is. Like, he is very good for this offense, and he's a very, accurate thrower and I think he can anticipate well,

it does not matter if he's not a playmaker because those guys and Mike McDaniel are going to take care of that. Yeah, Ollie Connolly posted this, that the average amount of separation in the NFL is 2.92 yards and the dolphins had five receivers average over three yards today, including Tyree Kill, who averaged 3.72 yards of separation. So I think there's, look, I don't want to give Mike McDaniel all of the credit. obviously the personnel that they have is a hugely significant part of why those playmakers can make this offense what it is. But it's not just Hill and Waddle who are benefiting from all of the space in this offense.

I will have a hard time advocating for McDaniel as coach of the year just because the last few weeks have been so weird there. But there is some sort of proof in the pudding of, oh, they can get back on track. I thought Tua did look pretty sharp, which is good to see because obviously last week it seemed like there was definitely some shaking the rest off that was going on. Yeah. Just a really, really impressive way to rebound. And you can, this offense is just consistently like everyone is wide open. And Hill and Waddle have combined for over 1,600 yards. I think it's 1688, which is the most through eight games of any wide receiver duo in the Super Bowl era.

So Tua has exceeded my expectation, certainly, this season. But the fact that this offense is doing literally historic things. And a lot of that happened with Bridgewater, Skyler Thompson, rotating quarterbacks, quarterbacks dealing with injury, like all of that stuff is. it's really, really surprising. It's nothing I saw coming whatsoever. It's very impressive.

No, same. I had high hopes for McDaniel, but I did not think he was going to be able to figure out this fast. And one thing they're kind of adding to the offense as the season goes along is like the under center stuff, which was really bad, really unproductive early on, is starting to work a little bit.

And I think when that works and you add that on to the shotgun parts of the offense, the RPO stuff, it's going to get even harder to defend this offense. And one thing, like, I've criticized to a bunch. The one thing that I do think that we got wrong about him, especially in regard to the RPO thing, is that it's not just like a scheme thing.

He enhances that with a very unique skill set. He throws it so early. The RPO passes. He throws into windows that other quarterbacks don't throw into. And it's like this part of the offense that only exists in Miami because of how he's able to penetrate those windows and use his eyes to really open them up. That's the one thing that I do think he's adding to this offense and elevating the offense is in the RPO game.

Now, I still think there are issues in the drop-back pass game. We saw him under throw a couple passes and Tyreek bailed him out just because Tyreek is just amazing on downfield throws. But, I mean, he's doing his part. He can't criticize him. He's playing well right now. And I know the Pittsburgh game, I thought that was more of Rust. because it was like they were just off a little bit on a couple throws, and that led to some ugly looking results.

But this game, his timing was back. He was confident. He was throwing over the middle into tight windows. He was throwing early. This was the best version I've seen of them this year. And if Mike McDaniel can continue to create these environments where the margin for error is so big that he almost can't fail, and then you add in the benefits he does bring to the offense,

this is a good offense. And I think it's going to carry them throughout the rest of the season. season. Did you see that they ran the direct snap touchdown play with Alec Ingold, the fullback? They did. Another, another thing on McDaniel's coach of the year resume using that play. And there's like a new variation of it. The new thing they're doing, not the dolphins, but other teams I've seen are they're motioning the receiver behind the quarterback and just using him to push the quarterback. Have you seen that? Another team did it today. I forget who it was. I think it was the Patriots. But that's another layer. I love that we're getting like an evolution of

quarterback sneak scheme. It's an area we haven't seen a lot of innovation. And we're getting it now. What a wonderful world. I do think the offense has to carry them because this defense just stop with the trickery. They try to do too much like double a gap stuff and dropping into zone. It's like too much. And they gave up a lot of a lot of big plays because of this on Sunday.

They're really inconsistent. Everything is either a big play or they're giving up a. eight to 10 play touchdown drive that takes eight minutes off the clock or something like that. It's kind of one or another. Can I give you the first loser of the day? Yep. The first loser was actually the last loser of the day. So the Packers lost on Sunday night football, 2717 to the bills.

And in a weird way, I actually don't want to bury them for this because first of all, the bills are a buzzsaw. Josh Allen even did some weird stuff and had bad interceptions in the second half, but they still went three and out on their first drive and then scored on five straight drives. Like this team just has so many buttons to press. And I actually felt like Green Bay found a way to move the ball in offense a little bit more than they have looked able to earlier in the season. They finally leaned on Aaron Jones in a significant way. He had 19 carries, average 7.1 yards per carry for 135.

Seemed like Rogers and the receivers were just sort of going playground with it. and he found some connection with Dobbs that way. But the problem is that they're three and five. They're now three games behind the Vikings. And they have the fifth hardest remaining strength of schedule by the opponents that they have left current win percentage. So it's just getting to the point in the season where it actually does matter that they just haven't banked these wins. And while I think there were some semi encouraging signs, this. still wasn't an offense that looked like it had a bunch of different buttons to press.

Like, Dobbs was really the only receiver that had significant production. In the game, Rogers still looks pretty skittish. He's often getting the ball out really, really fast. I do think that the run game for them is going to be what unlocks whatever the ceiling is for this group. So it was encouraging to see them sort of go there. but this was a game where Josh Allen, you know, goes to his postgame interview and the first thing he says about his own performance was that was gross. And it still seemed like this incredibly decisive win that the Packers were not really in once five minutes was buying the first quarter. So it's hard to be encouraged just based on where they are in the schedule.

And also, look, the defense is obviously really struggled, but they lost Devondry. Campbell do a knee injury. He was rolled out really quickly, which you hate to see. And losing an every down player is just not going in the right direction. So unfortunately, an L, despite some encouraging signs on offense. Yeah.

And the, like, the two touchdowns, it's not like even anything you could really build on because you have like a fantastic adjustment on a ball thrown up to, to Dobbs. It's not like a play you could bank on going forward. And then you have Torre who breaks off his route, finds the space. And then it's kind of funny because last week there was a play. There was a play just like that.

And Dobbs didn't break back into the space. And Aaron Rogers clearly wanted him to do that. And Aaron Rogers threw it anyway. And then Toray does it. And then you see like the interaction between Rogers and Toray after the play. Rogers is like, oh, yeah, you like you did what I wanted Dobbs to do. That's still another play that you can't really bank on. It's like a play breaks down and they score out of structure.

And I'm with you. I think they need to find a way to get this run game going every week and then marry it to the passing game. That's the one thing they're not doing right now. They don't have the play action passing game. And until they get that, they're not going to have an explosive passing game because they don't have the receivers to create it. So you need the scheme to create it. If you can't run, you can't stay under center. It's harder to do that.

I'm kind of encouraged by the fact that they didn't give up. in the second half and they made the game competitive and they kind of had an outside chance at the end there because of the interceptions. But this still seems like a team that is so far away. And now that they have this three game deficit in the division, it's hard to imagine them making that up. I think this is like the Vikings division to win, even though I'm not a big believer in the Vikings, but the margin is too big at this point. Yeah, I think that's right. All right. Who's your first loser? All right. My first loser is the New York Jets. They had it's it's not the fact that they lost to the Patriots. They lose 22 to 17. It's the fact that Zach Wilson had maybe his worst looking game of his career. Like it wasn't statistically. It was the first time he went over

300 yards in a game, I believe. He threw for 355 yards. Some of those numbers were kind of padded by like jet passes to Garrett Wilson. I will say that. He did throw two touchdowns to Tyler Conklin. but the three interceptions. Three of the worst interceptions I've seen this season. Like the first one was a back foot throw to a running back that he airmailed by at least five yards. It was a two-yard pass on third down. Airmails it sets up a score right before the half of the Patriots who didn't have the momentum at that point. Like the Jets, they started off fast.

Zach Wilson's, I think he completed like his first 10 out of 12 for 120 yards and a touchdown. but after that it was just downhill after that interception and then the plays the two interceptions in the second half he's trying to make a play i think the first time he tried to throw it away the one thing i don't get about that explanation is that he was out of the pocket he was only five yards away from the line of scrimmage like he could have just thrown the ball directly out of bounds but he threw it downfield like 20 yards and threw it right to a defender i didn't get why he was trying to throw it so far downfield if he was trying to throw it away and then the second one, he says he was just trying to keep the team on the field. It was third down. He's trying

to throw it downfield. Ugly, ugly throw. Airmails that one to another Patriots defender. It's a rough game. And like, this is the first time I've seen Jets fans kind of give up hope on him. It was the first time he lost his start, right? That's a good point. But he has, he's never put up numbers like this. He's never thrown for 300 yards. But I think what they would, what became clear in this game is that he is a player that needs to get out of the pocket. and like do the out of structure stuff, he's just not very good at it. And if you can't stay in the pocket and make plays

and now you're not making plays outside of the pocket, how do you make an offense out of that? Yeah. But I mean, it's the entire scouting report of Zach Wilson had to do with what happens when he breaks the pocket. Watching Zach Wilson break the pocket and try to make something happen right now

is like watching a car crash in slow motion a lot of the time. Like it's really not like it is a huge test. to a lot of other people involved in the Jets that it's been as good as it's been. But like that, which at its core sort of should be if you wanted proof of concept for Zach Wilson franchise quarterback, like that should be the stuff that's working. It's not. It's it's the opposite of working. I was joking with, uh, with Kevin Clark earlier today.

I said it was like Zach Wilson did one of those build your perfect quarterbacks with $15. You know, those graphics people put out on Twitter. And he spent all $15. on being able to elude sacks and then leave any money out, any leftover money for the rest. That would actually be a great, like if they turned the Pro Bowl into a skills competition, sack eluder would be great. I would love that. I had a thought today. I was like, I'm going to make a highlight reel of all throwaways, Zach Wilson throwaways and like put it like put the Fort Minor song as the background music.

But like his top 10 plays of the season, I swear four of them are probably throwaways. You know who I would like to see a few more throwaways from? Who's that? Who's that? I'm Kourkel Jones. Oh, my. Because if we're talking about, look, like the Patriots got the win, which meant that Mack got to get up on the podium and go on a soliloquy about how lucky he is to be coached by Bill Belichick, which definitely didn't seem related in any way to the weird situation at quarterback in that organization at all. definitely didn't seem like those two things had anything in common with each other.

But he got bailed out by a roughing the passer call from one of the worst interceptions I have ever seen that should have been a pick six. And I think Max seems like he's regressed this season and a lot of it has to do with force in the ball downfield. And he's just become this really interception heavy quarterback. and somebody, I don't know if that's coming from something that coaching is telling him that they really want him to play that way. Somebody's got to get that guy to be a little bit more willing to take a throw away.

He should be watching Zach Wilson tape is what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah, it's like hard, hard to fathom that this is the same quarterback that we saw early in, early in the season last year when they went on that hot. It's so weird. He's, it's different. Like his feet are different in the pocket. He doesn't look as calm when he's going through progressions.

It's not like one to two to three. It's like one to two to shuffle my feet a little bit, panic a little bit, throw off one foot. It just looks different. And this game could have been so much worse. Like even beyond that negated interception, he had a sack fumble that the Patriots recovered. That was pretty bad where he just didn't feel the pressure behind him. He had another pass where he threw it off. I don't know who he was throwing the ball to.

But it looked like he was throwing to his running back, Stevenson, out of the backfield. He was tightly covered and there was like a linebacker just waiting in the path of his route. So he basically threw it into double coverage, but it hit his lineman's helmet. And like that kind of threw off the linebacker. That could have been another interception. This could have been very easily a three turnover game. And if that happens, like he doesn't get the bailout call with the roughing the passer. And C.J. Mosley catches that interception.

What is the conversation following this game? because the one thing we've talked about, we saw him throw the ugly interception and get benched for Bailey's appy. I don't know if it was a benching. We don't really know what's going on there. But if he has a three turnover game and the Jets,

and that kind of keeps the Jets in this game and maybe the Jets win it somehow, I'm not so easily could have won this game. Because if that had been, if that interception, instead of a roughing the passer call, which moved the Patriots forward, had been a pick six.

Like, the Jets probably win this game. And the answer to your question, I think is there's like really serious conversation about going back to Zappi. And it's very, very hard to tell if that has more to do with what the offense currently looks like with Mac Jones playing quarterback or literally just how Mac Jones is playing quarterback because Mac Jones is better at all of the component parts of playing quarterback

than Bailey. Like that is true. But it looks worse. The whole product right now looks worse with Mac Jones playing. don't really know why. It seems like they should be able to play in a similar style that they had Zappi playing and with Mack and that it would be better, but it just, it's not happening. So here's my theory on one, there's been all this talk about they're running a different offense for Zappi. And then there's the other layer of Mac being more aggressive this year.

I do wonder if the Patriots coaching staff was like, all right, we really want to know what we have in Mac Jones this year. Let's put them in a real offense. let's have him try to look like a first round prospect of a quarterback. Because we need to know if this is the guy we're going to build around or not. And so maybe it's like throwing him in the deep end and seeing if he floats right now, he's not floating, he's drowning. But I wonder if that's the thinking behind this. Because yes, in theory, it makes sense to run the same offense that you ran for Bailey's app for Mack Jones.

But you don't want to be, you don't want to have to run that offense to get the most out of your first round quarterback and your franchise quarterback. So I wonder if there's something there. And that's why they're running this different offense. I don't know. It doesn't make sense. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. I mean, look, they found a way to win today. But I just think if they, it's hard for me to believe that Bill Belichick would do that at the expense of winning games. And they were really close to that being the case today. So I, but maybe. I mean, I got where you're coming from. All right. Can I give you another winner? Yep.

The Seattle Seahawks who beat the New York Giants, the now six and two New York Giants, 27 to 13, they moved to five and three, still one game up on the 49ers in the division. Gino was pretty good. The offense was pretty good. Not their most amazing day. But what I really thought was impressive from this was that that defense, that Seattle defense, which had such a bad start to the season, is not. now going on three weeks of playing really solid football.

And Daniel Jones took five sacks, Seacuan Berkeley average 2.70 yards per carry. What it is. And some of it does have a lot to do with how that young secondary has developed and made it okay for their front to be more aggressive. But that Seattle front has played a more attacking style. they run that 3-4 base and they'd been having the nose tackle and then two four technique defensive tackles having them line up over the inside shoulder of the tackle. And in the last few weeks, they've been having those guys line up as three techniques over the outside shoulder of the guard, which is a more aggressive attacking position.

And I think you've really seen that be effective three weeks in a row and then particularly and how much pressure they were able to get on Jones and how they were able to shut down the Giants run game. And they've got guys like Buna Ford who've been really disruptive in getting involved in that Punta sack, a tackle for a loss, two quarterback hits today. So they've showed us, I think, already the strides that they've taken offensively.

And that is certainly to the point. And Gino, I think, is to the point where, like, they're going to have better games, worse games. that's fine. I feel like we do kind of know what that offense is. The defense I really felt ready to buy into just because the sample size has really grown. And I think the improvements in the secondary as they've gotten more accustomed to playing together, they're just getting more experience because a lot of those guys are really young. I think it has changed what they're doing upfront in a way that seems meaningful. And I think you were really able to see it against an offense.

that's not, you know, super dynamic in the passing game, but I actually think that allowed it to really show up just because they were able to be like, okay, you guys are going to try to run the ball on us. We're going to try to attack you up front. And I thought that was pretty impressive. Yeah. And I'm willing to like accept that this is real, the turnaround, because it did coincide with that little schematic change that has like made such a big

difference. And it's kind of going back to Pete's roots as a defense. defensive guy, he likes his guys to attack. And when they were, when they had their defensive tackles playing the four eye, when you're in that spot, you're usually reading a little more. And when you're in a three technique, you usually attack a little more. You're not, you're just right off the snap. You're just attacking the gap.

So I do think that that makes sense. Like it makes sense that their defense turn around when they made that change. And I think it, it makes me more willing to believe that it's not a product of what they've been playing the last couple of weeks. Because they have played the Cardinals who, you know, they have problems on offense. The Giants offense has obviously been really weird this year and they've gotten by with that weirdness. And then the Chargers have had a lot of issues. But even when you watch them play, like the secondary is looks good.

Like they're playing well. The front is getting after the quarterback. They're stopping the run. The offense looks legit. It passes the eye test. Like this team looks good. And they win by two touchdowns. And it could have been more.

Like Tyler Lockett fumbles, I think it was like on the three yard line that sets up a score for the Giants. Yeah, and dropped another ball that would have been, could have been touchdown or would have been a long. D.K. Metcalf dropped a long pass, I think, on third down. And then Gino just missed him when he was wide open on an open. Like this wasn't the best version of the Seahawks offense and they still win very easily in this game. And Gino still looks good. Kenneth Walker looks good. He had a nice touchdown run.

Pete Carroll got so excited. He got penalized. Pete Carroll's getting penalized. Tyler Locke is throwing shade at Russell Wilson after the game. He said something like, oh, look what happens when we don't care about who's getting credit. Yeah. Tremendous. Guys, the Russ battering is getting sad.

It's too much. It's too much. It's too much. I wanted him to still have Tyler Lockett. Like, can he just have one friend? I get that he brings it on himself. But it's just like, all right. And Tyler Lockett's like the nicest guy.

It like easily seems like the nice. guy and you lose him? Like, who's next? Like, the Seahawks mascot's going to be talking trash. After the second, or he had the, the, uh, fumble and then the drop. So I think it was after the drop. Gino like went to him on the sideline and was like grabbing him and talking to him. And it seemed like such a good pep talk and it was such a good like wholesome moment. And then afterwards he was like throwing shade of rest. And I was just like, I get it. It must, I'm sure you're happy now. But leave him alone.

leave Russell alone. The vibes are great in Seattle, though. They might have the best vibes in the league right now. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. All right. Next winner. The Tennessee Titans.

Speaking of vibes. Yes. The Tennessee Titans won a football game in which their quarterback attempted 10 passes and only completed six of them for 55 yards. Malik Willis gets the spot start for Ryan Tannahill, who's dealing with an injury. Malik Willis was not good. He was not good in this game.

he really didn't get involved in the run game at all, which was kind of surprising. Like, I'm going to praise the Titans coaching staff because I think it's, I think they've established themselves as one of the most reliable coaching staffs in the NFL. The one criticism I had of today's game was get Belique more involved. Like give him a designed rush where he just gets the snap, a direct snap, and then runs it. They, they had him read some plays out, but he didn't end up with the ball. But I would like to see him get more involved if they're going to play him anymore. Is it possible he didn't get more involved in the running game because Derek Henry was rushing for 219 yards?

Yeah. Derek Henry, I'm bearing the lead here. Derek Henry ran for 219 yards and two touchdowns. This was the fourth straight game, fifth straight game against the Texans where he's had at least 200 yards and two touchdowns, which is just a crazy stat. But I do want to give a shout out to this Tennessee coaching staff because this podcast, me in particular, Ben, too, we've been very critical of the Titans. And last year when they were the number one seat in the AFC, we said they're not that good. And it was, I still stand by that. But this year, I think you have to just accept the fact that they're going to get the most out of their roster. And they're going to be good every year.

It's kind of like what I would imagine the Patriots would have been during that dynasty run if they didn't have the greatest quarterback of all time. Like they're always going to be in games. They're always going to make the right plays down in the stretch. They're going to let you make the mistakes. They're not going to make them. They're going to grind games out. They're going to make you play their style of football, which is usually just a disgusting brand.

Like this, I watch this game live, unwatchable, just pure slop. I would not recommend. Don't ever watch this game. No one needs to talk about this game ever again. It was terrible to watch. And I'm sure Mike Vrabble was loving every minute of it. I didn't see very much of this game, but that is, that is, in a way, makes me want to go back.

and watch it. Don't even open up the box score on your computer. You might get a virus. Like, that's how bad this game is. Just avoid this game at all costs. Don't watch the highlights. It is unbelievable that the Titans are 5 and 2. Like, we have no choice but to stand. With a negative 6 point differential, which makes it even better. I feel like that's so on brand. If they had like a positive point differential, I wouldn't trust them. But the Titans, 5 and 2 with a minus 6 point differential, that sounds. Yeah. Yeah, I'm buying it. It makes sense. I'm telling you, Elite vibes.

All right. Speaking of point differential, my next loser is the Las Vegas Raiders who were shut out 24 to nothing to the Saints. This was a weird game, a really, really gross game for the Raiders. They haven't been shut out since 2014, which was Derek Carr's rookie season. Also the season in which current Saints coach Dennis Allen was fired as their head coach a month into the season. Dennis Allen is now coaching a Saints team that didn't have

Marshawn Lattimore, didn't have Jarvis Landry, didn't have Michael Thomas, and is playing this Raiders team that was a 10-win playoff team last season. The interim coach had five losses in 12 games. The Raiders now have five losses in seven games. It seemed like the offense had found like maybe some rhythm against the Texans last week that did not carry over at all against a Saints defense that had been giving up nearly

29 points per game, the second worst mark in the league going into this game. Obviously, that number will drop after shutting out the Raiders. Derek Carr had 101 passing yards. It was the least of his career in a game that he didn't leave with an injury. Devante Adams entering the fourth quarter had minus one yards on a single like sweep toss. And it was his only touch before the fourth quarter. He finished with a total of three receiving yards. And they're in last place in the division. And I think, my take here is like Josh McDaniels is very lucky that Nathaniel Hackett has been laundering his way through many, many, many primetime games.

Because if everybody hadn't been watching that stuff, this would be the coaching situation that we would all be like, holy crap, what a disaster. I did not see that coming at all. But you look at this offense, you look at how much difficulty they've had getting Adams involved. You look at how the quarterback's playing. And it's just like, what area that he should have put some sort of imprint on this team through by now is, is clicking at all. I'm frankly shocked. Because even though I don't, you know, I'm not like sitting here being like, oh my God, the Raiders roster, they should be a true playoff contender. But this was a 10 win playoff team last

season. They shouldn't be getting shut out by the Saints. I could not believe that this happened. Probably doesn't have like significant season long implications for how the 2022 NFL season is going to play out. But I just, I cannot believe that this happened. Yeah. And I think the, the thing working against McDaniels is that they were 10, they did win 10 games. They were in the playoffs. They did trade for Devante Adams. They signed them to a $30 million dollar contract, like $30 million a year contract. Like I know they were in a tough division. and people were kind of questioning whether they were a playoff contender. But I think the belief in that building was that they just basically win all in by going after Devante Adams.

Well, and also that was at a moment in time when we fought that division was way better than it is. Yes. And the fact that the offense looks so bad over the course of the season, they've had some high moments like Derkar has had some good games of late. But there have been a lot of stinkers. and the fact that you're replacing John Gruden, who he wasn't seen as like some offensive innovator, like at this point in his career, he wasn't seen as like this genius offensive play caller.

And the offense was like in the top 10 every year with his personnel. And you bring in McDaniels and that's supposed to be his thing. I'm a play caller. I'm, I designed a good offense. And for it to fall off a cliff this fast and this hard with the same pieces, I know their offensive line is very bad, but the offensive line hasn't been a strength for a long time since like 2016

for that team. It's concerning. It's concerning, especially when you know his history as a head coach where he got off to a fast start in Denver and it just came crashing down in a hurry. You kind of worry that you're going to have

the same situation here. Yeah. I mean, learning moment for me, maybe, because I just thought that was so long ago that it didn't feel applicable to this situation,

but it's starting to seem like there are some similarities. I mean, I don't think that we've, heard a ton of player issues, so-and-so's disgruntled, whatever. But you keep losing 24 to nothing to a three-and-five team, three-and-five after this win. People are going to get, no one's going to be particularly gruntled. And I, like, you have Derek Carr on the last, not the last year of his deal, but they can

get out of it if they want to after the season. And that's something they might want to do if this season does get worse. and my question is what happens with Devante Adams if they do move on from Derek Carr because one of the reasons he came to the team is because one, Aaron Rogers was maybe retiring and then Derek Carr was a quarterback he knew was going to be there and he could trust and he had played with before and they're obviously friends off the field. Now, if they get rid of him in the off season, like, I don't know if Devante is just

going to sit and be content with the direction of the roster. Yeah. I'm curious to find out because it seems ugly. I don't know if Mark Davis is the type of owner who could kind of, you know, weather the storm there. I don't, that's the one owner I wouldn't trust to, you know,

to figure things out. A lot of meetings at P.F. Chang's. All right. Who's your next loser? Your last loser. My last loser is the Cardinals, but it's really Kyler Murray. He picked the worst game to throw two backbreaking interceptions and take some

terrible sacks on the last drive. Call of Duty came out on Thursday night. The multiplayer mode, at least. That's the mode that Kyla Murray loves and plays. We had Patrick Peterson doing a video game celebration after his second interception in the fourth quarter, I think. And then after the game, Patrick Peterson

said, he's asked about the celebration and he says like, oh yeah, like Call of Duty just came out. And this is like, that's, that hurts enough. But how he really rubbed salt in the wound by what he was saying, he was saying, I don't really know about that. I don't really play games. So it was like, I'm not like Kyler.

I actually do my job. I actually study and prepare for games. I don't know about video games like Kyler does. But this was like the worst possible time for him to have a game like this. Because the memes all week, it's just going to be about Call of Duty. And I don't know if he doesn't deserve it because he did make a lot of bad decisions with the game on the line. This was a good game for this offense as a whole. like DeAndre Hopkins was amazing in all the ways we expected him to be when he got back into

this offense. And we've seen that two weeks in a row. Yeah. It's amazing how different they are with him in the lineup. It's night and day. He makes everything different for their offense. But it's still the same problems everywhere else. Like Cliff is having a hard time.

They had no timeouts on that last drive. They got the ball back with a minute 50 left. No timeouts. The drive ends with zeros on the clock at midfield. They barely even move the ball. I think that's like the saddest way to to lose a game. Yeah, just run out of time. I would almost, I think I would rather lose in like heart ripped out

Hail Mary or you throw a pick or something. But the just like running out of time is so sad. And then on the other side of the ball, like we make fun of Cliff all the time. We talk about like how the offense is so disjoint it. The defense, like Vance Joseph, he's like a, he used to be a head. coach. He's a long-time NFL defensive coordinator and they're still running these unsound coverages on the first drive, Justin Jefferson had a big play. He had a big play because he got matched up with Isaiah Simmons in-man coverage down the field with no safety help. How does that

happen? How do you put a linebacker on Justin Jefferson? Maybe the best wide receiver in the NFL right now. It's infuriating to watch this team because they just shoot themselves in the foot in ways that are so easily avoidable. I don't, I, like, I don't know how this experiment hasn't ended yet. It's a tough scene. Can I give you the most Kirk Cousin's stat of all time? Always. He finished this game with an EPA average of exactly 0.0 in his success, wait, it gets better.

His success rate was exactly 50%. He added nothing to this team. He took nothing away. It was just like a perfect Kirk game. Was he even there? He did have a scramble for a touchdown. A 17-yard Kirk Scramble. That was one for the history books.

Oh, that's really good. That is really, really good. Can't play main coverage against Kirk Cousins. That's what they say. You can't turn your back to the pocket when Kirk Cousins is back there. He'll burn you. Six and one, three games up in the division. They're winning the NFC North.

They're hosting a playoff game. All right. I think that's it for winners and losers. I'm going to hit you with a real quick non-headlined story concerning Taylor Heineke, who was part of a 1716 commander's win over the Colts today. Every team in the NFC East is at least 500. Heineke goes 23 or 31, 279 yards, a touchdown and interception. It does a little bit on the ground.

rushes for a touchdown. He's better than Carson once. More importantly, at least for our purposes, when Heinecke plays 60% or more of the snaps, and a win, he gets an extra $125,000 per his contract. And he has a habit, he said, of always rewarding himself with a new pair of Jordans in the colors of the team he beat,

which caught my eye because he gets Colts colors. and I'm not a sneaker head, but, and this is obviously not exactly the same, but baby blue low dunks are the only sneaker I care about in this world. And Colts blue is like not really that color, but I feel like he could kind of go there. And I really hope that he does. However, I have a question for you. And I'm trying to manifest Taylor Heideke just permanently winning this starting quarterback job, which I really think he could, uh, whence is out for at least,

two more games. So Heineke will play against the Vikings and the Eagles. But if he keeps the job, he could also play against the Texans, Falcons, Giants, 49ers, browns, and cowboys. So I'm curious which of those color combinations. So we have Texans, red, white, and blue, Falcons, red and black, giants sort of red, white, and blue,

49ers, browns, cowboys. What sneakers are you manifesting for Taylor Heineke? Okay, if I'm him, I'm throwing the Browns game. I don't want, I don't want. Yeah, you don't want it. You don't want it. Now, probably the Falcons, if he's buying Jordans, like the red and black, I feel like you, you have more options just because that's usually the colors they come in.

I like it. He's much better in this offense than one says. So part of this is me hoping that we can just sort of like speak this into existence. Yeah, because I like the way Heineckee plays. He's not a good quarterback by any means, like a good starting quarterback. but he's not a boring one to watch. And I like this new archetype that we're seeing emerge where these guys that they're not very athletic,

but they still love to scramble and love to make plays out of structure, even though they don't have a big arm. It's like they're all descendants of Ryan Fitzpatrick. Yeah, that's the comp that I was going to make. And Heineke is one of those guys. He plays like Ryan Fitzpatrick. And I'd rather watch that than watch Carson Wentz do whatever you call that. I'm played quarterback with scare quotes.

Is that like I'd rather see hi. And a buddy of mine, Mario Pugue, he, he's on the radio with Sirius XM. He does, he writes for Rodo World. He came up with the best name for them. They're stuntman quarterbacks. It's like, they're like guys that were on the show jackass playing quarterback. They're just like giving up their body for our entertainment.

And I respect that. I do too. I do too. It keeps it, you know, keeps it light. keeps it fun, keeps it entertaining, fun to watch, really liked the connection he had going with Terry McLauran. And so I hope that he gets to add a few pairs to a sneaker collection, although maybe not, maybe not Brown's colors, because I agree with you. That sounds ugly. Thank you so much, Stephen. A delight as always. This has been the Ringer NFL Sunday recap show.

Next up on the feed is Sheel and Ben with Extra Point Taken, their deep dive of week eight. Thank you, as always, to Isaiah Blakely for production on this episode and to our Juno Rangipal for additional production supervision.