The Ringer NFL Show - Week 9 Recap: Patrick Mahomes Carries Chiefs Over Titans, Dolphins Outlast Bears, and Jets Shock Bills | The Ringer NFL Recap Show

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

Nora and Steven are joined by Ben Solak to discuss Patrick Mahomes's heroic performance in the Chiefs' comeback victory against the Titans (01:08). Then, Nora and Steven go through their winners and losers of the week, including the Dolphins, Seahawks, Bills, and Falcons (20:29). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Guest: Ben Solak Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Missa Kwanga. And I'm Ryan Hunt. And we co-host Stadio, a football podcast, on the Ring of Podcast Network. Twice a week, Musa and I talk about the goings-on in men's and women's football around Europe and sometimes around the world. We like to zoom in. We like to zoom out. We like to make some silly references. So if you like soccer or football, make sure you search for Stadio, a football podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Think we got it? Yep, that's good. Our NFL Sunday Recap Show. Sunday of week nine, believe it or not, is in the books. We are here as always with Stephen Ruiz. Happy Sunday, Stephen. Thanks. You're welcome. I appreciate it. You doing okay, buddy?

Are you confused by the preface? It's the first time anyone's ever wished me a happy Sunday. I have to admit in life. Benjamin Selacher, you just heard obviously here as well. kind of a barn burner question mark on Sunday night football, Chiefs Titans, the Chiefs win 20 to 17 in overtime. I guess because of the low scoring, I'm putting the question mark at the end of Barnburner, but certainly a really, really interesting game. Malik Willis gets the start for Tennessee.

Felt like this was shaping up for a Titans upset for a while. But then Mahomes, in a game where the Chiefs only scored 20 points in overtime, Mahomes goes over 400 yards for the second game in a row. Also accounts for 63 out of 77 of Kansas City's rushing yards. Just like, let's make the whole plane out of Patrick Mahomes-esque offense for the chiefs. Ben, what was your top takeaway from this one? This Titans defense is awesome and deserved a win tonight, man. They played lights out.

As you brought up, like counting stats-wise, Moham's set up a ton of numbers. Adempted 68 passes on the day. Just like, you know, the Chiefs held, I want to say they had upwards of 88 plays in this game. They doubled up the Titans there by the end of their drive and overtime. This Titans defense was put through the ringer in terms of the amount of plays they had to endure. Yeah, 91 total plays for the Chiefs as opposed to 48 for the Titans.

They had to be on, they were on the field for 41 total minutes, including overtime. It is extremely difficult to withstand this Chief's attack for that long, right? Like, the defensive approach against the chiefs usually only works when your team's running game is good enough to equal out time of possession for you. Eventually, you just went out of gas. And that was the nature of that overtime drive. It's just, we've been out here for too long. Like, the second we lost the coin flip, it's just like, oh, my gosh, we just got to go out there again against the same defense that runs you around and Mahomes out of the pocket. But from quarter one to that final touchdown drive there at the end of quarter four, man, for for so long.

long tonight, this Titan's defense got the timely sacks, had the contested points at the catch point. They matched routes beautifully. And Chris Collinsworth bemused during the broadcasting. How, like the coverage sack after coverage after coverage back here, how are they on

everything? This team covers so, so, so well. We talked about us on the Friday preview show. They just have such a great precience for where routes are going to develop. They know where Kelsey wants to get. They know where Juju wants to get them. They know where Mahomes wants to get them. They just are so well coached. Christian Fulton great game. David Long playing well, Kevin Bayered up on on Travis Kelsey, Josh Kaloo on Travis Kelsey.

They're deep. Such a good defensive performance. And then no Harold Landrieu. Entering the game, no Bud Dupree in the middle of the game. Mario Edwards having the game of his life to your tart up the middle. Like they just got dudes on dudes. Everybody here can rush. Everybody can cover such a great unit that absolutely 100% deserve to win this game, play at their tails off. And that's what, that's what power this Titans winning streak. And that's what's going to power their of the AFC South. It's just this defense is for real. You mentioned Byard.

I mean, they are so good on Kelsey, and I think him in particular, because they get hands on him at the line of scrimmage. They just disrupt him so early. He still ends up with 10 catches for 106, but if you think of the volume of plays and how much he is the focal point for them, I thought that was one of the most impressive things

that the Titans did all evening. And it almost, I mean, it doesn't feel like they won this game, but it almost does because it's Mahomes thrown for 400 yards. They go to overtime. And this team, and we should talk about Malik Willis,

that has like minus two passing yards in the entire second half is somehow clawing their way to still be in it. It's like unbelievable. I wish we could be talking about a Titans win here because it sort of feels like they deserve it. But,

alas and alack, Mr. Malik Willis, not starting under ideal, circumstances here. Ryan Tana hell has an ankle injury and took some warmups even. So I'm curious to see what we hear about kind of the timeline of when they were sure that Tanna Hill wasn't going to be able to go because it didn't seem like they changed their offense all that much or as much as you would expect for a quarterback with such a different skill set. Stephen, what did you think about the Titans offense and how they tried or didn't try to design this?

game plan for Willis. Yeah, there was an anecdote from Chris Collinsworths during the game where he said something to Mike Fragil during production meetings about how he was kind of surprised they didn't run more zone read because Malik Willis was so good at it at Liberty.

And Mike Vrable apparently got defensive. It was like, what do you talk about? We ran plenty of zone read last week. But that was my takeaway from the Houston game was they didn't really change the running game. It didn't make some sense because Derek Henry likes particular styles of runs. that usually come from under center

and he's had so much success against Houston, but I thought in this game, and who knows if they knew Malik was going to start the game, like Ryan Tana Hills' playing status was up in the air, I thought there would be more of an adjustment to the offense, and there just wasn't. Like, there were a couple zone reads, and Malik had one where he kept it,

and they got called back. I think he ran for like 15 yards. But beyond that part of the offense, like the passing game, like it looked ugly for the most part, but when they were throwing deep passes, vertical shots downfield outside the numbers. Like it looked like they had a chance every time he threw that pass.

Yeah. Chris Conley had a very catchable, well-targeted go ball in the first half and the second half. It wasn't a perfect ball, but Nick Westbrook-Keeney got two hands on it inside the 10-yard line, right? Like if you get one catch on a downfield catchable throw the Malik Willis made, this is a two-score game after the fourth quarter. So a touchdown plus a two-point good version doesn't tie the game. We're probably talking about Titans win in regulation.

Yeah. So there's a, there are a. there are a lot of things to talk about in this, the way the Titans designed the passing game, the way they designed the running game relative to the passing game, the way that they drafted a quarterback in the third round, knew all week that he potentially had to start for them and seem to put no thought into designing an offense around what he does well.

There's a lot to talk about there, but also the Titans just make one catch, right? You have like a healthy trailing Burks in this game. You have any functional free agent receivers who aren't brought into the building just because they're really good blockers. You get one of these catches. you're probably going to win this football game.

And that's kind of the do or die of the way the Titans build this team. AJ Brown was getting some tweets off. Yeah, good for him. Which I respect. It's not exactly fair, but AJ Brown was getting some tweets off. Let the record show. If you're going to see your ex face planting on national television, I? You've asked you.

They weren't face planting, though. This is like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes, they were relative to A.J. Brown's scope, which is how are the receiver's playing. And the answer is, a receiver did not catch a pass. In AJ Brown's world, this is like a 45 to nothing

shut out. The reason why I'm kind of... Stephen, go ahead. I was going to say the reason why I'm like disappointed is because of how good this coaching staff is and how much faith I have in it in putting together a gameplay. And my home said it in the interview after the game. Like this team is just so good at game planning.

I don't think it carried over to the offensive side, but we saw it on defense. And I, like, Ben covered it all. already. They're just on everything. They understand the leverages of like what kind of route concepts the chiefs want to run and they put their cornerbacks against the leverage of that particular concept. And it's the right 90% of the time. I watch the last year's game between these two for Friday's spot. And my comment to Ben was, my first question is how did the Titans know all of the chiefs play calls? Yeah. They had to have known. How does Shane Bowen get the play sheet from

the enemy pregame? Like they have to be like tapped into his headset Andy Reed's headset or something because they're on every single play. And it just stands out. Even when you're watching without the benefit of all 20T, you could see it. And you saw Mahomes. At the end, he realized, look, they're winning the defensive call every single time. And we don't have the dudes that we used to have. Tyreek is who I'm talking about.

I'm going to have to take this into my own hands and create on my own. And that's why you need a quarterback like this. Because when the other team's going to win some play calls, they're going to out game playing you some weeks. And if you don't have a quarterback who can do stuff like this. And I'm not saying at the same level as Mahomes because that's just too high of the standard. But you need a quarterback who can create on his own.

And we saw that tonight, like how much that benefits an offense. I bet the chiefs are fairly, of course, they're happy they won the game. They do not seem to like the Titans very much. I think the history between these two teams and just, it's another window into why the Titans win games. We don't always think that they should win. is just like everything you see from them, everything you see from the teams

that have lost weird games to them in the past, you can just tell that they hate playing them. That they just think playing the Titans sucks. And it, you know, it got so chippy in the, in the early stages of the game. And it was just like, oh. The Ravens and the Titans had those, like,

fights pregame. You know what I'm saying? This is like a nasty team. Yeah. Kelsey chucking his helmet after like a, like a tipped ball, like a not even his fault. Right.

Not this fault. It's just like, You just play this team and they're just constantly shoving you the line of scrimmits. They're constantly punching you in the mouth. The super physical tackler is just like nothing is as free as it was. It's not a fun team to play. The number one thing you talk about when you talk about like beating this chief's offense is like, okay, it'll play too high, you know, zone doubleets.

It's make it not fun. Make this team have to feel like they're methodical. Make it feel frustrating. Make it feel physical. It is a bad day to play football for the Kansas City Chiefs. And that's what the Titans do is they, you know, coaches, love to say, like, we're going to take them out into the deep water, right? Like Dan Campbell said this on like a hard-off thing.

Yeah, they do it. Yeah, we're going to bring you out to the deep water. We're going to show you we're tougher than you are. And like, we're built for the muck. We're built for that. No, Rabel just does. Rable's Titan team, you never get to play your football against them. Never.

Why do the police never be the titian? To a murder threat to go about it. Can you, could you imagine making that speech with Jared Gough in attendance? Right. Can you imagine making that speech in your life? Like, football is. so weird. They're just like threatening each other's lives left and right. Imagine saying that to anyone you know. What the Titans do is they just like flick you. And like the first time they flick you,

they're like, oh, I just flick you. And you're like, oh, it's a flick. I don't care. And they just keep doing it. And they just keep flicking you. Every play, they just flick you. And you're just like, by the end of the game, you're like, God, can you please stop? This is so annoying. Now, but this entire philosophy, which wins them the AFC South every single year, which gets them in this close game against the Chiefs. They like beat the bills last year, right? Like it helps them contend with these AFC contenders. That was a lot of contending, whatever.

That same philosophy is then the Achilles heel because it becomes time to convert any third and four plus. And they just, like, Malik didn't attempt to pass beyond the line of scrimmage on third down until I think the fourth quarter when he tried to hit Austin Hooper and probably should have gone to DPI but didn't. But they just don't. And then there's no trailing Berks.

I understand that. Like, you know, they got Kyle Phillips. He's been a little slot separator for them. The league's the backup quarterback. They're down in terms of resources with Tannhill. Obviously, they're going to be better in those instances. But that is then the tradeoff is when you when you build it this way, to zag so strongly where other teams Zig to be so predicated on physicality, right?

Even as Stephen brought up, like how they run the football, like they want to be downhill with Henry, right? Like all these other play action teams try to stretch you horizontally and then throw behind you. The Titans go right at your throat. The Titans go down, duo, inside zone, between the tackles, between the tackles. And then they throw play action on you. And it feels like the end result is the same. Oh, they're getting play action in the middle of the field, but it's not. Because it's a different style of football.

And when you put Malikin, you need to work horizontally. You need to use his legs, use flow to widen the field, get easier to throws, get him outside the pocket. They do that in the first half. The chiefs find an answer defensively, and then they're nowhere. They're nothing, right? they do become one-dimensional. And that's how you get, like Nathan Jenkey of PFF was tweeting it out. They had like eight straight drives starting the end of the second quarter

and moving through the third and the fourth quarter, where they did not pick up more than 10 yards. Like net net yardage over eight drives was like 23 yards. And there's totally empty. And that's so frustrating, as Stephen brings up, because Malik has enough talent, Derek Henry has enough talent, that you should not be this limited on offense when you had a week to game plan.

Like you had to have known that Tanna Hill was going to be a game time decision. You had to have more in your pocket. You needed to have more reliance on zone read. You needed to watch more Ravens film. You needed to watch more Tray Lance film with the Niners. You needed to watch more Justice Fields with the Bairds. You had to have come in with more.

You had the chiefs where you wanted them. You had nine points from Mahomes in the third. You had them. And to not have enough on offense to finish that is really frustrating. So you've seen two weeks of this. Do you feel like they haven't designed enough of a game plan around Willis to learn anything about him from, you know, this game and the Texans game combined? Or have you learned anything about him in the last two weeks?

I don't think so. I don't think the Titans were trying to learn anything from these games about him, to be honest with you. I think they were just trying to win football games. And it is a weird situation. Like, Tanna Hills' playing status is up in the air. It's not like they know he's not going to play and they're changing the offense for a specific amount of time. They're kind of doing this week to week.

So I give them a pass in that regard. But how hard is it to install a couple more zone reads? I mean, I'm sure they were practicing it during training camp. Yeah. And then it's not only that, but meshing that with the passing game, like you never saw, like, play action. And they called an RPO. Or an RPO.

Like, I just don't, I can't fathom how you draft him. And I'm presuming you watched his tape at Liberty and didn't think, let's add some RPO's to our offense. Because that's all he ran at Liberty. And like the reliance on screens is extremely frustrating because a screen is less likely to work. If the defense is expecting the quarterback, it's going to feel like they need to spy the quarterback, then calling a screen is calling it into the teeth of the spy. It's like the defense has placed a player two yards off the line of scrimmage whose job is just kind of like a watch and make sure nothing weird happens. You call a screen. You're asking for Nick Bolton four-yard tackle against Dantra Hill, you're knocking you out of a potential

field goal range or potential go-for-it situation, what have you, right? Like they were, they really felt like their third down call, even their second down call when Malik Willis took the huge sack in overtime was a delayed tight end screen. There's a linebacker just there. The chiefs have a linebacker at the second level in case Willis leave. So, like, you're not calling plays that maximize the value of the quarterback's legs, right? And they did early on the script, and then they got away from it. Like, in terms of the boot and stuff like that. Against the Texans, it was fine, so it was the Texans.

Against the Chiefs, you cannot leave that on the table. If there's anything to be learned from Willis' two games starting with the Titans, it's that the Titans don't think he's ready for anything. They don't, like, they did not call a standard dropback. at like, no, like, hey, like, read out the front side. Even the, even the stuff he threw was like, read out the backside. Just pick, you have one-on-one take it. Never did they ask him to, like, choose anything with his eyes.

What was that? The second or last play of their drive and overtime, all of the receivers were blocking, it seemed like. Yeah, that was the tight end screen. It was supposed to be a screen. So it's meant to look like max protection. Tight end stays in a block, running back stays in a block, and we send three routes deep. But instead, the tight end, after. or blocking for a moment, releases for a screen.

And now we've got your entire defense 20 yards down field because they all ran with the routes and we just dump it off to the tight end right outside the pocket. Eagles love this with Dallas got it. We're not all the time. Swain, the tight end, releases a little bit too late. He holds his block for a little bit too long, which messes with the timing of the play. However, a quarterback who's started a few games or at least just run this play a few times is comfortable enough just kind of leaking back in the pocket, just taking a little bit more time,

letting pressure come to him and then dumping it off to the tight end. Willis, like there's not even any pressure. Willis just feels the time that he's held on the football, drops his eyes, drops the ball and starts scrambling around. But scrambling on a screen is a cardinal sin. There's nothing to be gained.

You can't scramble a screen. The lines already down the field. The receivers don't have their eyes on you. Like there's not, you cannot scramble on a screen. And he scrambles and it breaks the entire play. All right. Any last thoughts on this one, guys?

I think we would be remiss to not say two things. one for as frustrating as the Titans offense was Derek Henry's so unbelievable. I came into the season thinking, all right, if Derek Henry looks like he looked, like if he looks like he's looked before, easy comeback player of the year. Then the first few weeks, I was like, oh, darn it, the foot injury killed him. He's not the same. Nope, it's back. Just took us a few weeks.

We're good. Henry looks unbelievable. And yeah, and then the other side of the football. Having watched what Josh Allen did against the Jets this week, there's not a single quarterback in the league, you could have put in a Kansas City Chief's uniform and they would have won this football game besides the guy wearing 15 tonight. Holy Moses, man. The scramble to the touchdown and then the scramble to the two-point conversion is just such a stupid, irritating.

Like, the Titans won the down. They won it both times. And it just doesn't matter. Unbelievable talented player. Mahomes and Henry, the two best players on the field tonight offensively, both carrying their entire team. And it's a three-point decision in overtime. Yeah, I think Mahomes is like, the conversation is over for the rest of the year, in my opinion.

He's QB1. He's the best quarterback in the league. Josh Allen, no, like me saying Justin Herbert had a chance. No, I'm not even going to mention the Dolphins quarterback. I'm not even going to mention it by name or the Eagles quarterback for that matter. It's Mahomes. He's MVP. He's the best player ever.

Let's stop the debates. I know they're getting, like, people are getting tired of him and bored of him. but tonight was another example of him just, the rules don't apply to him. The laws of nature do not apply to him. He's playing a different sport. All right, well, we can't stop the debates because we work in sports media

and that would be bad for us. If Stephen's saying no more debate, he's QB on the rest of the season when he's the guy who does the QB rankings every week, very interesting choice. Yeah, and just wait until we get to the Chargers section of this pod. I might say some things about Justin Herbert that are irresponsible.

Very excited for that. All right. Thank you so much, Ben. We're going to get to winners and losers next. All right. Let's get to winners and losers. Stephen, who's your first winner of the day? My first winner is the Miami Dolphins.

Another big game for the two-a-on agenda, the two-a-on MVP campaign. 35 to 32 win over the Bears. There was a point during this game where I felt like the dolphins might score 70 points. I think they had almost 30 at halftime. It didn't seem like the Bears had any chance. Anything they did played man coverage. They just throw a slot fade to one of these just metahuman wide receivers they have.

And Jalen Waddle and Tyree Kill goes for 143 yards. And it felt like he could have gone for 250. I feel like, and I'm not trying to harp on Tua's arm strength or whatever. But there was the pass interference call on the first drive where he left the throw kind of short in the end zone. End up being a good play. And there was a third and six play later in the first half where Tua just smoked his guy off the line of scrimmage, which was wide open by at least five yards.

No players between him and the end zone and Tua throws another one of those lofted go balls that just hangs in the air forever and it lets the Bears cornerback get back into the play. Like, I'm already close to making an argument that Tyree Kills should get an MVP vote. If some of these throws are thrown in stride, I think he has 1,500 yards already.

And I don't know how many touchdowns he has on the year, but he has five more, had five more to it. He is an amazing player. And I think that the concept of this offense, we like talked about it during the offseason of what it could possibly be with these two speed guys in a Shanahan offense. We've never seen anything like it. It's exceeded expectation somehow. And it's gone beyond to like I'm beyond even discussing how good two is at this point because it doesn't matter. The offense is so good. The offense line is doing an amazing job.

Mike McDaniel is scheming it up. So too has just a wide open pocket on 80% of throws. Jalen Waddle, Tyreek Hill are just getting wide open. Mike Keseki is getting open. We saw Jeff Wilson. Jeff Wilson's first game. He has a long run. He has a touchdown pass out of the backfield.

This offense, there's a new layer added to it every single week. And I think by the time we hit the playoffs, it's going to be this machine. And coming into this week, I would have seen. said, the Dolphins have no chance of catching the bills. After watching both of those games, I think the Dolphins beat the bills when they play in the second game. I know the first game, like, it was kind of, it was a weird game.

The bills were on the field for like 60 minutes, 40 minutes, 50 minutes, and the bills were missing a bunch of secondary players. Ton injuries, turnovers, yeah. But this team matches up so well with that defense. And we'll get into that later when we talk about the Bills and Jets game.

Mike McDaniel, he's him. He's him, man. He's way better than I thought. I had high expectations. I thought he was going to be one of the better like Shanahan assistants, but he's checked every single box. Tua is making the right throws. He has a big enough margin for error for even when he misses. It still turns into a big play.

The defense is concerning, but I think as Bradley Chub gets more involved, that will solve itself a little bit. And the offense is going to be able to do the rest of the heavy lifting. Yeah, well, I was going to ask you how you felt about the AFC Easton, if the Dolphins would have a chance to win it. Because the bills are a game up in the loss column, but, you know, it's kind of anybody's game at this point. I'm with you on all of that.

I must mention, Stephen, the Bears' offense actually outscore the Dolphins' offense in this game. And I feel like the other quarterback deserves some credit for a fairly good performance. Justin Fields runs for a NFL quarterback regular season. season record 178 yards. The Spares offense has scored 94 points in the last three games. It's good. It's not unimpressive. No, it's not. And I think that we might need to revise some takes from earlier in the year when we were talking about how the supporting cast gives no chance to

Justin Fields. Like, apparently that's not the case because they are scoring a lot of points. And Justin Fields did have a good game. But he had a good game in a way that I don't think translates towards him being a better quarterback necessarily. Like he scrambled a lot. They got him involved in the run game again, which is a smart thing. I think the Titans should take a cue from the Bears and see what the Bears did when they changed their offense midseason.

But he completed two passes over five air yards or 10 air yards. I forget which one it is. He barely threw to the middle of the field. He had a 25% off target pass rate. The NFL average this year is 10%. he had a 25%. Not ideal. If you just,

if you look at non-play action dropbacks, it goes to 36%. By the way, Justin Fields leads the NFL and off-target throw rate at 19%. So this was actually worse than his season average.

So I'm going to pump the breaks on the Justin Field type like his touchdown pass to Mooney. I mean, if he missed that throw, we would be talking about it. It was a wide open throw. So I'm not giving him too much credit,

but the scramble. Okay. Credit words do. He didn't miss it. 10 of 16 on third down. Yeah, I think he flipped like a very important switch. And this has made the difference where he is a more willing scrambler than he was in the past. And he's like he's making that decision quicker.

He's getting through his progressions quicker. I do give him credit for that. And that's why I think you're seeing his athleticism play a little more than it did in the past. It's not just the design runs. I think he's a better scrambler than he was. And that 60-yard scramble, I've never seen a quarterback make a play like that. I've never seen a quarterback look that fast. looked that fast since Michael Vick was playing.

It was an amazing play. And that's the one reason why I will say I was too quick to cancel him and write him off. It's because he has so much talent. And if you could just harness that, which the bears have figured out how to do over the last three weeks, you can make a functional offense out of it. They're more than functional. They're kind of fun to watch. Just because he can break a play like that at pretty much any moment,

and now that he's doing it more willingly, they're at least exciting. So I think they deserve credit for that. He's the first cool Bears quarterback of my lifetime. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. You mentioned that maybe if a couple throws were in stride, that Tyreek might be getting MVP votes.

My first winner is the Seattle Seahawks. It beat the Cardinals 31 to 21. I wanted so badly. for the take to be that Gino Smith is going to get MVP votes. In my heart of hearts, I just, I think Mahomes is going to make that really, really, really tough. But it's not unreasonable. And I think if that happens, the second half from right after he throws the pick six,

Arizona goes up 1410, from that moment on in this game is a part of the MVP voter. PR package, right? Because that happens, and from that point onward in this game, Gino needs a Seahawks on a 13-play 75-yard touchdown drive. Then he goes on a 13-play 81-yard touchdown drive. Then a 5-play, 81-yard

touchdown drive. He has started this year, begins the year, and we're like, oh, my gosh, Gino looks so good in this system. He's executing the McVeigh offense. It's smooth. Then starts to add the deep ball in a little bit. It's a little bit more explosive than we were

expecting. It's a little bit more explosive than we thought it could be in the early weeks when it was like, oh, look at this stable system quarterback, not doing the Russell Wilson stuff. But then all of a sudden, there's a little bit more scrambling. He's simultaneously in that second half, he's dropping back. He shouts out the O line after the game. He's letting plays develop. And then you get a third and seven at midfield. And he's keeping the ball on an option play, running at 18 yards. And it's just like, Gino Smith is like, he can do everything. He's the ultimate weapon. He really, he's, I wish I weren't laughing right now because he really truly is one of the best

quarterbacks in, in the NFL this season. And it's not that he's like part of the best, one of the best systems. Like, Gino Smith is really, really the driving factor in this offense. And so I can't quite go there with, he's going to get a bunch of MVP boats because I still don't know who looks at football right now and goes, yeah, I'm giving my vote to Gino over like Mahomes. But right now, Joe Burrow has better MVP odds than Gino Smith. Like, that's silly. That's silly. That's not reflective of what is actually happening. So he should at least, he should be getting MVP talk segments. But I want to do my part in this. Yeah, he at least

deserves a vote. Him coming back from that pick six, that's just resilience that you, like, Every time, and I tweeted this out, every time you expect, like, the Gino, oh, Gino's turning back into a pumpkin talk to start, he comes back and just kills it immediately. Like, he just comes back and gives you the best drive he's had all season. And in the second half, he was doing zone reads, he was scrambling. He was, like, making changes at the line. I think he, like, checked into the zone read where he ran for a big game. It's, he's literally doing a little bit of everything.

Like, there's the deep stuff. There's the play action stuff. There's the scrambling. There's the pre-snap stuff. there's the stuff in the media where he's like being a really good teammate. Like we saw the moment with Tyler Lockett when Lockett had the drop passes last week. Yeah. I mean, he's not the MVP of the league because Patrick Mahomes exists,

but he's the MVP of the Seattle Seahawks. And that's a, that's like a high bar to clear with how much talent they have on that team, like especially on the offense. When you think about like D.K. Metcalf and Tyler Lockett, they have a lot of good players. And it's hard to argue again. Gino Smith being the best player on that team this year. He actually, honestly, he might get a couple votes

just because people do kind of have Mahomes fatigue. Yeah. Tony Dungy vote. Fun story, at least. Tony Dungy voted for Bobby Wagner that one year. He might throw Gino a vote. Bobby Wagner, jumping over the line on field goals today. Just like old times.

Very exciting. Tony Dungy might throw him another MVP vote this year. Yeah. Just for that. All right, let's get to losers. Who's your first loser? My first loser is the aforementioned Buffalo Bills who lost to Zach Wilson.

I'm not even going to say he lost to the Jets. He lost to Zach Wilson, which Josh Allen did. And officially, I feel like conceded the QB1 debate that I think was starting to boil up. Josh Allen lost to Zach Wilson. Is that what you just said? No, that's the headline.

No, that's not true. I think the Jets win, and this was a complete performance by the defense. I do not want to take any credit away from the defense. I thought, and I've been critical of Robert Sala. I think they have really turned things around. And you could just see with how the players on the Jets defense are firing to the football and just relentlessly pursuing it, that they have bought in completely to whatever he's selling. And buy-in, I feel like it's the most important thing when you're an NFL head coach.

I don't care about like your scheme or whatever, your X's and O's, your scheme. your play calling. You need to get guys that will buy in and solid, clearly has that. And then I thought the offensive plan was very smart. Like,

it was like, Zach, we are not going to let you make turnover the football. He found a way. He got strips, sack. It cost the,

the Jets three points that might have cost them in the game if Josh Allen didn't lose his mind a couple times. But they'd call a lot of quick game,

a lot of RPO. Even on third and long, they were not letting them throw the football. They were like, you're throwing a screen pass and that's it. That's all we'll let you do.

He made maybe two good throws. Career high completion percentage. only completed two passes beyond five yards. And the first pass was a wide open throw to Garrett Wilson that he actually made him contort his body to catch, which was pretty bad. But the second throw was legitimately good. It was like a sidearm throw.

But it was good enough from Zach Wilson. The running game really worked against the Bills. And I think that's why I'm so concerned about this matchup with the Dolphins later in the year. Because one thing I will say about the Bills defense, as good as it has been, they do the same thing over and over again. Like they don't line up differently.

They don't throw exotic looks at you. They don't change their personnel. They play the same like few coverages every down or every other down. And I think against a smart offensive coaching staff that you can kind of take advantage of that. And I think a Shanahan coaching staff in particular is going to be good at hitting a target that isn't moving. And I would say that's what the bill's defense is. it's a non-moving target and when you give Mike McDaniel

or Mike LaFleur or Kyle Shanahan a week to prepare for that they're going to come up with some good stuff and you saw it in this game. They won this game by running the football and that's a concern for this Bill's defense that hasn't really shown a weakness

before this week. Yeah, I mean, I do think they really miss Matt Bolano in their run defense. But you're right, it's this, you know, it's derived from the same system and if their best offensive game plan for the Jets is basically, okay, Zach Wilson, manage this game, don't make mistakes,

we're going to run the ball for 174. Like, that is a winning formula for this team. Then if you make it the Dolphins offense instead, that's a big problem. So I can see it, but I don't, I think part of it is personnel. I just think that he's so explosive, good for a couple big plays, a couple key stops per game, and then that presence allows the guys on the back end

to be in their rotations and be able to make things, because that's how they make things confusing on offenses, right? It's like how well that secondary plays together and how they can disguise looks and how they rotate. And I think you lose a little bit of that if they're sort of compensating for who they have, like fitting the runs,

and Milan is a big part of that for them. But I think that makes sense to me. I'm excited to see that game. I don't know when they play, but that'll be a good one. We might have to talk about Josh Allen, because that's two weeks in a row where he's looked like 2019,

Josh Allen, that is not a compliment. I do think that the Jets' defensive line played a big role in this, and I want to give them credit. Their defensive line is so good now. Quentin Williams is so good. If Aaron Donald didn't exist, I think he's the best interior defender right now,

and their edges are playing really well. Carl Lawson, John Franklin Myers, The rookie, he wears number 47. I'm not going to be able to remember his name. Huff. He's playing very well. And I think that took a toll early on Josh Allen. You could see his feet start to get a little excited in the pocket.

He made some throws that he missed some throws that he wasn't missing earlier in the year. And I thought after the first month, like, oh, all of the silliness in Josh Allen's game is gone. He's figured it out. He's ironed out his game. He's like a real adult quarterback now. There's always more silliness. No, he's the silliest quarterback in the history of the NFL. I was stupid for thinking that.

And the silliness came out today. The first interception was like legitimately hilarious. He just threw it right to a guy. There was like he didn't get fooled. It wasn't a bad decision. It wasn't like you didn't get fooled into a bad decision. It wasn't a bad throw like accuracy wise. He just threw it to the other guy.

And then the second interception to Sauce Gardner was even worse somehow. Like I think he thought he had a whole shot. And Soss Gardner just kind of like floated into the throwing window. And he hit him right in the chest. Two bad interceptions. He could have got intercepted a third time in the fourth quarter. Not a good game for Josh. And yet the final throw of the game was maybe the greatest throw I've ever seen on a football field.

He hits Gabe Davis in stride in the face math. 70 yards downfield doesn't get caught game over. The Josh Allen experience in full today. I think he gets the benefit of the doubt just because, because of who he was when he came into the league, I think every time Josh Allen does something exceptionally silly, it's like, oh God, he's going to fumble while trying to sidearm a throw and hurdle a guy.

Like, we never know what can happen. I do think that he has been a consistently excellent quarterback for long enough that, like, yes, you got to accept that the sillies are part of the package, but I'm not particularly worried about Josh Allen. is what I would say. I also think the Jets defense is top 10 might be top five.

I mean, they barely had to blitz and they sacked him five times. I'm putting Soss Gardner in top 20 defense conversation, like top 20 defensive players. He is a complete cornerback

already. I know he got burnt by Stefan Diggs on the first drive, but that's going to happen to any corner that gets left one one with Diggs. But it's not only the coverage, like he tackles,

he's a willing tackler, And I think that helps. He's so physical. Yeah, it's just complete package. Totally complete player. DJ Reed, I also thought was really good in this game. Yeah. Like, they were really good against that receiving court.

And this was certainly not Josh Allen's best game, but I'm much more inclined to say this Jets defense is really legitimate. And they played a large role. They can win pretty much any game like this. I agree. I agree. My first loser, the Los Angeles Rams. They lost 16 to 13 to the bucks. They went three and out on eight out of 12 possessions.

The offense continued to be abysmal, nine total first downs. It's the lowest total in any game coached by Sean McVeigh. The offense is the problem. We know this. If they'd gotten a single first down on their last drive, none of this happens. That said, I need to talk about their last series on defense. So we're not letting the offense off the hook here, but like none of that was new. We know that they just really can't.

They don't, nothing works for them this season. And we've talked about this. Their defense actually played a really good game. They kept them in until the buck's last possession. And then all of a sudden, when Tom Brady has to throw, like the bucks are so stubborn and they don't just commit to throwing the ball when it's like the only thing that they can do effectively, all of a sudden Brady has to throw. There's 35 seconds to go.

He has to go 60 yards, get a touchdown. The Rams just go into this soft zone the whole way Brady completes six passes, gets the touchdown. They win the game. The Buccaneers now lead the NFC South. And I just couldn't believe it. Like this is the, when everybody on Twitter is tweeting, ha, ha, ha, I've seen this before. It's like, doesn't the coaching staff feel like that? Don't they feel like they know what is going to happen if you barely defend the sidelines and just allow Brady to march down the field?

The only category of offense with a positive EPA value was Buck's early down passes. They gave up so much for like the entire game by not doing that as much as they could have. And then all of a sudden they just have to do it. And I couldn't believe that the Rams just were like, oh, please, go ahead. So Rams get the L. It makes no sense based on just not only Tom Brady's history. Like he's made a career out of killing that same exact coverage in those same exact situations for 20 years now. But like just focusing on this Bucks team, which can't protect him when he has to hold on to the ball along.

Right. And doesn't have receivers who can separate and get open against man coverage. Playing soft quarters where he can get rid of the ball in 1.5 seconds, and throw a hitchh route out to the perimeter, which is like a throw he's made his career off of. It makes zero sense. And I know it's easy to say that in hindsight, but if you were to ask me,

like, what's the worst possible strategy to play against Tom Brady in the two-minute situation? It would be that. And they did it all the way down the field. It also, like, it's not even a two-minute situation, right? Like, it's a terrible coverage against the particular quarterback, the particular personnel that you're facing,

the particular offense that you're going against, which, like you said, has protection issues, wants to get rid of the ball really fast, and has experienced receivers but doesn't have a lot of guys who can create separation on their own. And they absolutely have to get to the sidelines. They have to.

There's not two minutes left. There are 35 seconds, and they have to go 60 yards. It's just like, defend the perimeter, and you'll be fine. Do, like, one of those things right, and you'll be fine. You also have Jalen Ramsey. You have Jalen Ramsey. Please play man coverage.

Please put Jalen Ramsey on Mike Evans and then make Scotty Miller beat you. Scotty Miller, who's dropped like three passes at this point. It's just like, it really boggled my mind. The mind was boggled. That's what I got for you.

And it's not, I feel bad because it's not their fault. Like the Rams Court 13, points. Yeah. They are the reason they lost this game. But still, you had one job and couldn't do it. That's all.

All right. I think I owe you a winner. You do owe me a winner, Stephen. Thank you. The Cincinnati Bengals, the Cincinnati Bengals beat my Panthers. 42 to 21. The Panthers turn around that I thought was coming after P.J.

Walker took over the quarterback position. Ended abruptly. He was benched for Baker Mayfield, one of the saddest moments of the week. But the main story here is the Bengals scored 42 points. And they scored 42 points after a week where they lose Jamar Chase. They struggle to score against a bad Brown's defense. But then here comes everyone's get right game now, the Carolina Panthers.

This is another defensive game plan that just boggles the mind. Like, have you read anything about the Bengals for the past two months about their offensive struggles about what is giving them the most trouble? the Carolina Panthers came out in the first half and played man coverage against the Bengals and maybe you have more confidence to do that with Jamar Chase on the sideline but you still have T. Higgins, you still have Tyler Boyd, you still have Hayden

Hearst, you still have all these weddings, you still have Joe Burrow who's like the best quarterback at those back shoulder fakes that kill man coverage. Joe Burrow average almost a full EPA per dropback against man coverage against the Panthers in the first half. Now in the second half they realized that was a bad strategy and they started playing coverages that have given

the Bengals problems this year. But in that first half, the Bengals just went to town on that on that defense. And I do think it's a good sign that they were able to run the ball. Joe Mixon, I think Joe Mixon have like five touchdowns. There's a big Joe Mixing game. And he's been pretty, he hasn't been very impressive up until the last two weeks. So that was a good sign for the Bengals offense. And Joe Burrow was able to hit on some downfield throws without Jamar Chase, which is another good sign. But I still don't think this is a sign of progress for this Bengals offense. I think this is more like what we saw earlier

in the year where they had two good games against the Jets were one of them and the Dolphins. And these were defenses that didn't copy the other teams that had success against the Bengals offense. The Panthers fall into that category. So it was like a throwback for the Bengals to

2020 or 2021 when they had all this success. I don't think it was proof that they've solved their 2022 problems. I think that remains to be seen. But the fact that they're still moving the football without Jamar Chase is a very good sign for this team. And I think if you look at the standings and their playoff odds, even if they struggle for the next couple of weeks, they have a margin for error to work with in the AFC. Because the FAC is not very deep.

After last week, I didn't see that team scoring 42 points without Jamar Chase's in the lineup. So I think that's a positive for them anyway, slice it. I didn't realize that this was the Queen City Bowl. It was. it was it was not a close match of since the city gotta get a new thing Baker Mayfield they come in and throw two touchdowns

Baker Mayfield come back Baker Mayfield revival yeah you think no no not at all he will be benched next to meet for PJ Walker and the cycle will continue it's beautiful it's the circle of life all right Stephen I think we've gone to the point of the podcast

where I have to talk about the Minnesota Vikings, which I have to be honest with you is a moment that I've been dreading since we began. But my next winner is the Vikings. They beat the commanders 21 to 17. They have a five-game lead in the lost column on the rest of the AFC North. The problem with the Vikings is like, all I know how to do on the pot is just like tell you facts about them.

Like, it's like when Belichick sometimes filibusters by just like essentially reading somebody's Wikipedia page out loud. Yeah. So four of the Viking 7 wins have come in games where they were trailing in the fourth quarter. They have a worst point

differential than the AFC East losing New England Patriots, but they're going to host a playoff game. Yeah, this is amazing. Kirk Cousins had his shirt off on a plane today.

Like, what has happened? With jewelry on, like, copious amounts of jewelry. This is, this is, I got to say, and is Kevin O'Connell the most anonymous rookie head coach to ever start 7 and 1, by the way?

Seriously? I've never heard him talk. I've never seen a press conference. I've never seen anyone like praise him. I've never seen anyone throw his name out there for coach of the year. It's like the Vikings are 7 and 1 and no one is buying into it.

No one believes in it. I don't even know if Vikings fans are. But it's like it's cool. Like good for them. I'm not going to hate on them. Fine. But it's like everything is kind of working for them. So they trade for T.J. Hogg

He catches all nine of his targets. He goes for 70 yards. Total proof of concept for why he's helpful to Cousins, helpful in this offense. The first catch he makes is a third and five between the hashes. Cousins mostly looked for him in situations like that. Opposing defense is selling out to defend Jefferson. He was pass blocking a little bit.

It all works. And the pass catchers are really, really, really spectacular. like there's barely a play when Jefferson can't suddenly like that touchdown at the beginning it was like he wasn't open and then all of a sudden he's just like up in the air and he's open yeah

and I think the Hawkinson trade is a good sign for them like it wasn't I don't think that was a trade that was like oh we're six and one we're buyers at the trademark the trade market I think Kevin O'Connell realized oh this isn't real right now

we need another layer for this offense if we're going to actually be a team capable of winning games in the playoffs. So I like that, like, proactive move. But, like, when you look at the underlying numbers, it's very clear that this is a house of cards that's going to tumble at some point. And, like, just knowing Vikings history, you know this is going to end poorly, just in the worst way possible. And Vikings fans know this.

But, like, enjoy it while at last. They're 15th in offensive EPA. they're like 14th in defense. They're like a completely mediocre team. Any way you look at it. Like even Kurt Cousins, who's usually like putting up these stats. Does he still have a zero EPA?

I don't know. I have to check it. That was like my favorite set of all time. Zero EPA, 50% 50% success rate, just the most right down the line quarterback of all time. And this is like his perfect team

because that's exactly what they are. You don't even, you don't know that he was there. And yet he's one-on-one score game. I feel like I haven't watched the Vikings play one snap this season, but I also feel like I've watched every game. It's like not a memorable team, but at the same time, it is memorable because of that.

How do you know what Kevin O'Connell's mindset was about the Hawkinson trade when you've never heard him speak? That's a good point. Maybe I'm just, like, Kevin O'Connell is he even a real person? Like, the Kevin O'Connell was inside of us this whole time. The real Kevin O'Connell is the friends we made along. the way. That's right.

Yeah, I don't know. I got to say, I don't really want to see Kirk Cousins with his shirt off again, this season. I could say that once is enough. Once was probably too much. I think that's enough of that. But I'm happy. They're happy. Love to see the joy.

Love to see the celebration. Yeah. When you go 7 and 1, you can take a shirt off. Like, if they win the Super Bowl and Kirk Cousins takes his shirt off, he's earned it at that point. But before then, I'm with you. No, I disagree. I disagree.

Oh, really? He got, he had one, he had one card to play, and he played it. He played it. He beat the Washington commanders. Believe it was a, you like that anniversary. And that was when he chose to do that. He does not get to again. Okay.

Okay, I'll approve that. It kind of feels like we should be giving them more credit because they are seven and one. But I don't think we've learned anything about this team, and we're going to learn a lot about this team next week because they play the Buffalo Bills. And if this team is for real, we will know it by this time next week. And we will give them more credit on next week's show. I look forward to it. All right.

Who's the next loser? My next loser is the Green Bay Packers. But I feel like it's really Aaron Rogers. They lose 9 to 15 to the Detroit Lions, the lions, the lions who have one of the worst defenses we have ever seen. They scored nine points. Aaron Rogers goes 23 of 43 for 291 yards. one touchdown and three interceptions, two of which came deep in the red zone.

I don't think it's a hot take to say that Aaron Rogers lost them this game. The defense played a lot better. I think the receivers didn't play well, but they didn't play poorly either. A.J. Dillon, I feel, are we done with the A.J. Dillon experiment? Like, I feel like his best role is as a lead blocker now. It's sad to say, but like the two running back, personnel package has not worked. Aaron Jones is the best player on that offense right now,

and he should touch the ball as much as possible. But we need to talk about Aaron Rogers. Now, before I watch this game, I had seen bits and pieces on Red Zone. I had seen the tweets about it. I assumed Aaron Rogers was going to look a lot worse than he actually did. He made like five plays where it was like, oh, that's the Aaron Rogers that we're used to seeing.

Like he got outside the pocket. He scrambled for one long first down. He made some throws on the move. he made some throws out of structure. There was like a very impressive fourth down throw to keep the game alive. But I think he's like 10% worse and it just looks a lot worse than it actually is because the personnel is so much, it's taken a hit. You not only lost Devante Adams, you lose MVS too.

And we have talked about the chiefs losing Tyree Kill, but the chiefs actually attempted to replace him. They didn't like go after a big star, but by committee they kind of figured out a way to fill in the gaps that he left when he got traded. The Packers did the opposite of that. They not only got rid of Devante, they got rid of his number two receiver, and then they draft a project receiver in Christian Watson,

who wasn't going to be ready to play. And then Sammy Watkins, that was their big move with the money they saved by trading Devante Adams. I do think there's a talent issue around Aaron Rogers. I think Aaron Rogers is part of the problem too. But this game in particular, think exposed them because you were playing a team,

a defense that has been so exploitable. And in the ways that the Packers haven't been able to move the football, and the fact that the Green Bay wasn't able to take advantage of Detroit's defense tells me that I don't think there's a way for them to fix this. I think it's over for this season. Like this team is not making the playoffs. It's not good enough. That's what Lil Wayne said.

Aaron Loss Weezy. tweeted RIP to the season, we should have gotten rid of 12. You hate to see it. And it's hard to disagree with them. Obviously, that's a hindsight take. Like hindsight 2020, but can we disagree

with them? And at what point do we start wondering if they should get a look at Jordan Love? Well, okay, so I want to go there, but before, do you think so before the trade deadline, they obviously didn't get anything done, but they were in on Claypool,

they were in on Darren Waller, apparently. DJ Moore. Yes, and DJ Moore. I knew there was a third one. Would any of that have helped? I do think so. Like I said, I think Aaron Rogers, there's still like five plays a week

where it looks like he still has it. I think part of the problem is just his attitude towards this receiving core. I think he's kind of like taking it out on them by not throwing them the ball as often. But... He's turned into David Bakhtiari in the end zone. Yeah, it's...

it's bad. But I think, like, if you add a receiver into this, a legit number one receiver, it kind of makes the other pieces fall into place and raises everyone up, like 5%. And I think that's a,

that's the difference between where they're at now and where they are, they were at last year. Obviously, you're not going to replace Devante. He was everything to that passing game. But you have to have something more than this. Like,

these receivers are just, I don't know how you can make a functional offense Like a functional offense is going to compete in the playoffs with this receiving core. And it's easy to say now, but even looking back in March, that was always going to be the case. And I don't think there's a front office that's better at leaking the, oh yeah, we were in on that player also, but he went somewhere else than the Green Bay Packers have been for the last like couple of years. Yeah. Well, it's going to be very interesting to see if all stays happy in the kingdom over that stuff. because we've heard a lot,

heard a lot at this off-season, heard a lot at the beginning of this season about how there was more open dialogue between the quarterback and the front office there. And I wonder if philosophies are aligned over whether or not, you know, because look, if they, presumably, there's a number for most players, right?

Like, there's a number where the compensation goes high enough, the Panthers are going to say yes, the Raiders are going to say, like, whoever it is. So if they, if the Packers felt like, okay, well, it's just too rich for our blood. At this point, we're getting no from the teams that we're calling.

I wonder how well that message goes over. And maybe it goes over fine. We've heard that, again, there's a lot more open dialogue there. And to Aaron Raj's credit, like, the shots he's taken have been at his teammates so far this season,

not the front office, not who's picking the players. Growth. That's great. We haven't gone there yet, but I'm curious if it'll start to happen. Yeah, in my one argument to the people that are,

that would point out that this team values draft picks over, over like veteran players, trading for veteran players, is pull up the draft history. for this team over the last five years. Yeah. I don't know if this team is making the best use of those draft picks. That 2020 draft was the beginning of the end.

They drafted a quarterback who never plays, and then basically two lead blockers in DeGuara and Dylan. Good draft. Well, maybe Jordan Love will start getting to play. Maybe, as Aaron Rogers said, might be time to start cutting some reps. To the players making mistakes. I have a feeling that's not going to happen.

Number 12 is on that list, by the way, prominently. It's not. I mean, he's playing really badly. I agree with you. It's not all on him, but the decision making's bad. The physical execution is off and on. I agree with you. There will be like five throws a game where it's, it still looks really, really good. But if it were anonymous player X, that's a very real conversation. I just, I don't think it's happening. No. Although I will say the Zach Wilson, the Zach Wilson, Aaron Rogers, comps have never looked better.

He looks like Zach Wilson right now. Zach Wilson came back to him. All right. Zach Wilson completed. 72% of his passes today. I'm not saying to let the world on fire, but let's be nice to be young. All right. Last loser of the day. Oh. Oh, gosh. The Atlanta Falcons. Chargers 20 Falcon 17. I just want to make sure before we end this podcast so that everyone listening knows how much of a falconing took place today. Because the Chargers did everything, everything within their power to try to lose this game.

But they scored two touchdowns in the second quarter, essentially because Justin Herbert all on his own was just like, oh, crap, it's third and long, everything screwed up, whatever. I'm just going to go six for six on third down in this quarter and complete a bunch of passes to like Josh Palmer, who's suddenly the number one, and they score twice in that quarter. Outside of that sequence, they get two field goals,

one of which happened after a play where the Falcons recovered Austin Eccler's fumble, and then they fumbled, and the Chargers got it back. Drake London had a turnover where Khalil Mack just like took the football from his hands. It wasn't even a fumble. He was taking something off.

Yeah, it was, I don't know what to call it. We need a new genre. It was a new genre of turnover. It was like a handoff. Like the football player resembled most closely was a handoff. It was like a zone read. And he gave it. No, and like the game losing fumble was also like not a forced fumble.

They were like, they're finding new ways to fumble the football. It's just unbelievable. Like the worst part was probably that they let the Chargers linebackers like make adjustments. on them. But the Falcons had no business losing this game. They come out, the first drive is like, okay, there's 12 different personnel grouping somehow, like five different skill position guys touch the ball. You can totally tell what Arthur Smith thinks of that Chargers linebacker crew. And after they scored, I was like, oh, all right, good night, Chargers. This is going to be it. Then all of a sudden, it's like Drew Tranquil is making play after play after play.

And they're just like, oh, we are going to sell out against the run here because Marietta is going 12 of 23 for 12.23 for 1229 with an average depth of target of 15 yards. Like, this man was so erratic. It was so strange. I just can't believe they lost that game. It was a hilarious game. And it, like, just a chef's kiss. To, like, a tribute to both of these franchises in their long history of just the worst, most cursed losses possible. I'm surprised the game didn't end it in a tie.

Yeah, but, like, the Chargers vastly outperformed, like, the outcome for the Chargers was vastly better than their performance. Yeah, it was terrible. Like, this does not qualify as a Chargering because they played abysmally and still won the game and, and, scored some points. Yeah. My contention is that a chargering did not occur here. This was pure fascinating. I do agree with you.

I do agree with you. I think it was like, it was a light chargering. Like there was a dropped pass that turned into an interception. I think like Gerald ever dropped a deep pass down the field that was wide open. Right.

It was like a, this offense was pitiful on first and second down. Like if it was, wasn't a stuffed run, it was a penalty. If it wasn't a penalty, it was a tightly contested throw to nobody. It was a bad offensive performance,

but like you said, Justin Herbert on third down, just put the super, Superman cape on. Second quarter, he was perfect on third down, and that was it. That was the only thing they did in the game.

It just so happened that it was enough to win. Yeah, it was just like, save us on third down, Justin Herbert. And like, this was legitimately, one of the most impressive quarterback

in performances I've seen all year, because it wasn't even like on third down. He had it easy. He had it like a, avoid pressure and step up in the pocket and break the pocket and then, like, throw across his body to convert on third and six. It was a heroic performance for him. He saved the charter season.

Like, if any other quarterback in that situation, I think they lose by two touchdowns. If three of those plays go differently, they with Justin Herbert still lose by two touchdowns. Yeah, and the reason why I say that is because, like, it was his particular brand of quarterbacking that, like, allowed him to salvage those plays. Like he's so quick at responding to pressure. And their offensive line was just horrid today. It was so bad. And it did not affect him in any way.

And that's why he leads the NFL and sacks. I thought Jonathan Vilma was like, he commentated the game for Fox. He was the first person that I've seen like first person on a broadcast, acknowledge that the reason why they lead the NFL and sacks isn't because the offensive line. It's because Justin Herbert gets to his progression so quickly. And you saw why that was important today.

That's what made the passing game viable. Because the receivers in the offensive line and the plate calling, for sure, certainly did not. All right. We will close out the show with our non-headline story of the week. And, oh, in this one, we, as the Ringar NFL show, send our sincere congratulations to Doug Peterson, who today moved into fifth place in the Jaguars' all-time coaching wins list with a whopping total of three.

and by leading his men to mount a 17-point comeback and beat the Raiders 27 to 20, Doug Peterson moved ahead of storied Jaguars coaches, Urban Meyer, Mike Malarkey, and Mel Tucker. So on behalf of the entire Ringer NFL show family, we extend our congratulations to the Jaguars and to Doug Peterson and his family. Stephen, would you like to say any words?

Just a truly impressive feat. It's going to go down in the football history books. he passed Mike Malarkey. Mike Malarkey got hired as like a he wasn't an interim coach. Like I think Mel Tucker was interim. Mike Malarkey got hired to be the coach for a full season,

presumably more than two seasons or one season. And he ended up only winning three games. This is very depressing stuff. But I do want to say something. And I know you're not supposed to give Urban Meyer any credit for anything. But the Travis Etienne pick. It's pretty good.

He left, that was his parting gift to the Jaguars. And I think today, Urban Meyer could be like, you're welcome, Jacksonville. I would be very curious to see if, if he tried to pull that takeoff anywhere. But yeah, if I'm him, I'm doing that. Even a broken clock, right? Yeah.

Now it was a first round pick on the running back, which kind of like, you got to take that with a grain of salt, but he is a good player. At least, like, Urban, he doesn't know who Aaron Donald is. He kicks his kicker during warmups. He hires, Strength and conditioning coaches that have been tarnished.

But he knows how to draft running backs in the first round. You can't take that away from him. Well, congratulations to him as well, then. Just kidding. But congratulations to Doug Peterson. Very exciting. Thank you, Stephen. Delightful as always.

This has been the Ringer NFL Sunday Recap show. Thank you for listening. Shield Capadia and Ben Solak will be next up on the feed tomorrow with extra point taken. I will be back on Wednesday with the Island. Then Sheel will be back on Thursday with The Scramble. Then the Ringer NFL preview show, Danny Highfits, Ben, and Stephen will have you covered previewing all of next week's action on Friday. Thank you to Eduardo Ocampo for production on this episode and to Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.