The Ringer NFL Show - Welcome to the Two Most Fun Weeks on the NFL Calendar (Ep. 211)

Episode Date: January 2, 2018

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark recap Week 17, including why Panthers fans should be worried (0:56), the odd reason the Bills were a shoo-in for a wild-card berth before Sunday’s games (8:36), and why the Raiders hiring Jon Gruden would not be a slam dunk (16:55). Then, the guys discuss why Patrick Mahomes II will likely be the Chiefs' starter next season, regardless of their playoff run with Alex Smith (32:38). Plus, Danny Kelly joins the show to explain how the Vikings are flawed (41:52) and why the Eagles won’t win a playoff game (46:15), and to debate who would win the Super Bowl if every team’s quarterback was Blake Bortles (48:25). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. Buddy, we did it. 17 weeks of the NFL. The playoff field is set. We waited out Joe Flacco. Yeah, that's all we had to do. We waited out Joe Flacco and we waited for that inevitable bit of heroics from Andy Dalton.

We all knew it was coming. Did you see Andy Dalton has raised $57,000 for a foundation from over-eager bills fans? We're going to get into this, that entire situation. but a lot of stuff that unfolded with the Bill's playoff scenario. I enjoyed. It was a fun kind of set of moments, but we're going to get to that. We're going to run through both conferences. We're going to talk about some of the coaches that are looking for work now.

Plus, Danny's going to come poke some holes in the top season each conference who are on by this week. Before we get to any of that, though, let's get into our four downs, and we're going to start with the NFC. Newton on first down, throwing over the middle. It's high, deflected and intercepted by Keanu Neal. Neil veering right to the 30-yard line. at the 25, twisted down at the 23. Cam Newton was looking for Greg Olson. The ball tipped in the air.

Keanu, Neil, blunts it out of the air. Second pick thrown by Cam Newton and an absolute dagger to the Panthers' chances of coming back in Atlanta. All right. On first down, the Falcons took care of business against the Panthers on Sunday. The Panthers did not look great. The outcome here wouldn't have mattered in terms of playoff seating with Seattle. losing. But let's dig into kind of the ramifications of this game. And let's start with Atlanta. Kevin, is there anything that you saw on Sunday that makes you feel any different about whether the

Falcons can make a little bit of a run here? Well, I mean, I saw an update this morning that worried me a little more than what I saw on Sunday. I think week 17 can be red herring in a lot of ways. Andy LaVitre won't practice for the Falcons on Tuesday. Ben, Garland's going to come in. Garland has performed admirably. But when you're playing Aaron Donald, you need all the help you can get, man. And so that that worries me a little bit. I think that generally the NFC is sort of a flat, I guess you could say a flat circle in a way. I mean, I don't know. Really, we've talked about this for the last couple weeks. I think that there are no teams that can get to the Super Bowl that would surprise me at this point. But those NFC South teams to me are particularly bunched together and it's going to come down to

they all, you know, quarterbacks with high ceilings. Yeah, I guess it did for some teams and didn't for others for me. I don't feel any differently about the Saints. I just think that's a weird game for New Orleans. I still think their past defense is very good. You know, Marshawn Lattimore had a rough day. He hasn't had many of those. Chris Godwin, who could call by Danny, had a huge game against Ken Crawley. So I think that's going to be right. I'm not too worried about New Orleans. With Carolina, I'm starting to get there. I just feel like this passing game is not where it needs to be. Yeah. Just because of the last couple weeks? I think there are four games over the course of the second half where Cam completed less than 60% of his throws and averaged less than six yards per attempt.

That's problematic, and it's problematic because of how good the rest of the NFC is. You can have weaknesses, and Carolina has enough strengths. They have the best pass Russian football by Justin Sack, right? They can change a game that way. But when you're carting in the nitpicking with these teams because they're all so good, I just think that's the most claring weakness of any of these teams right now is Carolina's ability to move the ball. Atlanta has some issues with their defensive times. Their offense has been stagnant, but I don't think any of them are as glaring.

New Orleans doesn't really have that many defined weaknesses. I guess Eagles and Nick Foles is probably number one. We'll talk about that. But I just think that right now, Carolina's struggles are very real, and I'm not sure how they get righted. First of all, I want to talk about the Sean Payton Dirk Cutter rivalry that we found out that we needed in week 17. Did you see that? Yeah, I did. I really liked how much you enjoyed it.

I mean, I just loved it. I mean, why do these guys hate each other? People are coming out and saying, well, the Falcons, he was the Falcons coordinator and he was the Saints coach. It's like NFL coaches try so hard to have no confrontation to do anything but the most boring thing possible. And here they were, I mean, this was like a very, very mild version of Harbaugh versus Jim Schwartz. It was great. We need more of it. Yeah, I really enjoy the passive aggressive padding and handshakes are really the only way that NFL coaches are allowed to communicate their handshors.

hatred for one another. Literally, Dirk Cutter was trying to tell Sean Peyton, I hate you, and the way it came out because he's an NFL coach is good luck to you. Yeah. It was phenomenal. I'm in. I'm all in on this rivalry. I'm going to guess that Sean Peyton's not a super popular guy around the league.

Yeah, but that's true of like half of the NFL coaches. Yeah, that's very true. He may be a popular guy by virtue of him being kind of an asshole. I mean, I would say of like Super Bowl winning coaches, and that's not a generally popular group. Yeah. They're not super well-adjusted people.

No. I mean, you have to step on a lot of toes and or faces to get to the top of the coaching profession. So I get it. But Dirk Cutter also, let's not act like he was the good guy in all of this because he was, he was clearly, that was an incredible schick by him. Incredible. So, you know, the Saints, I think of any NFC South team, the Saints are by far, by far my favorite to get to the Super Bowl. I mean, obviously we've talked about it for the last couple weeks, but I mean, Alvin Kamara is exactly who you need in the playoffs. That defense is exactly what you need as far as playmakers and the ability to get a quick turnover. And then Breeze is Breeze.

You know, did you see that I know we're not going to roast him like we did Sam Bradford. Did you see Breeze set the record for completion percentage this year? Such a weird offense. I mean, just such a weird Saints offense. We've talked about that for most of the season, but just kind of the way they've been good has been fascinating. I totally agree with you, though. I mean, I just think that they're the most complete team in that division.

Before we move on here, let's have a little funeral for the Seahawks, I think, because this might be over, man. I mean, you listen to what Michael Bennett said after the game. The Seahawks, I think as we know it, I just feel like we've reached a point of, you know, financial critical mass here. I mean, there's a, there comes a time where when everybody has gotten paid, it's no longer viable anymore. And I feel like with Seattle, we've kind of hit that point.

Yeah, I mean, Michael Bennett thought they, he said, said it's a young man's game he thinks they're going to go young. Earl Thomas was sort of wishy-washy. Richard Sherman and Cam Chancor have been out for a couple weeks, but we sort of see the writing on the wall that the Legion of Boom will be broken up. I think it's, I think it's sad. And I also worry, I'm a big legacy guy. I also worried that the fact that we're sort of limping into the end of this and they're not going to have one playoff run together where they can reassert their dominance. I think we're going to start forgetting how amazing the Legion of Boom was. It's really difficult to be that good for that long

on one side of the ball. It's almost impossible. But not just that. It's the fact that it was what, there were five or six straight seasons were passing numbers broke an all-time record across the board, league-wide. And Pete Carroll built one of the best secondaries in history

in that era. Yep. And that's what's, it's like having, it's like, remember the Braves pitching staff back when we watched baseball and how amazing they, word or in the steroid era. Like in guys, Mark McGuire is sitting 70 home runs and, you know, has biceps that can't even fit into his shirt and the Braves are doing what they're doing.

I mean, that's kind of what I think about when I think about the Legion of Boom. As far as just building something in an era where it seems impossible to build, that's the Legion of Boom to me. I totally agree. And I'm also here for all Earl Thomas, Greg Maddox comparisons. That's totally fine. I feel like we could go really far down that road. you're right they also have a very similar remember the Braves would always have like a fifth starter who was just totally out of nowhere he made no sense mike hampton or steve avery like the sea ox always had the random cornerback who got paid elsewhere do well for a season and get paid yeah you're right i feel like it is sad that we're not going to get to see one last run but at the same time i do feel like the playoffs are better with alana and i think

Atlanta is more dangerous. I absolutely think they could beat the Rams. I don't think they will. I think they're six and a half point underdogs. They could, but it wouldn't surprise me if they went on a little run. I think that's what I'm after here is getting the most interesting playoff field possible. Unfortunately, we did not get that in the AFC.

And let's get to the AFC where the Buffalo Bills, that's right, the bills are headed to the playoffs. First and goal from the one they give it to Kyle Williams goes into the end zone. Touchdown. Kyle Williams touchdown. He lined up at the full back spot and rumbled into the end zone. Kyle Williams scores a touchdown and everybody falls

flat on their back. So, Mays, I want to talk about this. I looked at the playoff odds before Sunday. And I wanted to see exactly how this is going to play out. And I saw that the bills had a 17% chance of making the playoffs on Sunday a morning. As we know, 17% is around 15%, which as we've discussed, is an absolute certainty in the modern NFL. They only added those two to throw us off. So just to recap, if you missed the episode, Donald Trump, 15% chance of winning the presidency. U.S. World Cup qualifying odds,

15% chance of not making it. The Jacksonville Jaguars at the start of this season had a 15% chance of making the playoffs. And going into Sunday, the bills had a 17% chance. And I looked at that and I said, book your tickets Buffalo probability has deemed this to be so. It's how you know. It's the only certainty is that if something has a 15% chance of happening,

you know what's happening. Can we tell the people build their probability models about this? They probably know. Because they know it's all a sham. They know. We don't have to point this out to them because they're lying to us. They know to just flip it on its head. If it's 15%, it's 100%.

I really enjoyed the bills making it. And I enjoyed it for a few different reasons. I think that the reaction videos, period, from any setting were fantastic. I mean, just Bill, Buffalo bars, anything like that. The best one, though, I mean, it got very dusty in my living room watching Kyle Williams. I mean, him in the back of that pack watching that touchdown, like, picking up his kids, he started crying. Like, I love that there were Bill's fans earlier this season where they were like, well, you know, I know we lost the game on purpose during a playoff race, but who cares we just get to the playoffs?

Are you serious? Yeah. Did you see what the reaction was like on Sunday? you think that doesn't matter it was incredible that being said the pfc playoffs might suck but it was worth it i mean it wasn't it like below zero this morning in buffalo and there were hundreds of fans out to to greet the team yes i mean that's incredible i mean that is really fun i'm also not really here for nine and a half point underdogs in wild car weekend games which is exactly what the bills are you were never listen we were never going to get a we're not going to get the

NFC playoffs in the AFC. That's just not going to happen. I know. The bench is too deep in the NFC. There are too many good quarterbacks in the NFC. So the AFC was, would you rather have Flacco in there? I would have said this from the start. I would have liked to see the Chargers and the Ravens get in. I thought those put them in the better games.

The bill's moments were probably worth it because I don't know if either those teams are going to do much. But God, the Titans are not good, man. And the bills are not that good either. Could you imagine if the Sean McCoy doesn't play? Or if he's 60%? I mean, they have no shit. shot if he's not right. Marcus Murphy, who is the guy who is the backup running back for Buffalo,

first of all, I didn't even know he was the backup running back for the bills. Second of all, he was a kick returner at Missouri. He did a little bit of running back. Give me carries he had in his career before Sunday? Tell me. Zero. Zero. He'd never run the ball in an NFL game before outside of returning kicks. Now he's the bills running back of a Sean McCoy can't play. Wait, wait, wait, wait, so were the bills just not using a backup running back? They just put Mike Tolbert in there sometimes. That's great. That's great. What do you think about going back to Nathan Peterman this week?

It's the right move. Just change it up. Yeah, of course. That's what you want. It's terrifying. There are a lot of people who continue, I made this joke a couple weeks ago on Twitter and people continue to come at me, that the Nathan Peterman thing was just the Nathan for you bit to make Tyrod Taylor look good. And it is working in a way no one could have ever imagined.

Like Tyraud Taylor's confidence Has been in an all-time high since that game. Tyraud Taylor and LaShaul McCoy are the way the bills can win this game. I mean, I think plaintiffs a ball. Well, that and then I think them making play is kind of out of structure and out of nothing is that gives the bills like this weird volatility and upside. I don't know if it'll be enough. The other way they could win this game is that Blake Bortles is really bad. And we probably should have known that.

And I think that it may doom the Jags here. I mean, he was awful again on Sunday. day. That first pick he had, you just can't do that in an NFL game. And I know that they wanted him to play to kind of get him back on track, but it might have had the opposite effect. I mean, now it's, we're heading even further down, you know, the wrong path. He's going the wrong direction. And I don't know if Buffalo is good enough to beat Jacksonville even with a bad Bortles game, but I know every other team that they would face in the playoffs is. Yeah, I don't think Bortles, I think a couple of things.

I think it comes down to running back health, and I think it comes down to the plays Bortles can make. I think that, you know, I was in Jackson a couple weeks ago. You were there before that. I think Bortles can be a serviceable NFL quarterback. He's not, as he was billed coming into the season, the worst quarterback in the NFL.

He's just not. And you've seen, I think coming into the game last week, he was the highest rated passer in the NFL in the month of December. And so I think that he can do things. I think that there was probably a five-week stretch where the passing lanes opened up for him and he was able to to check into some passes and he was just feeling it. He knew the Jaguars had the playoffs wrapped up and he was making some really good throws. That ended two weeks ago against San Francisco. Yes. And we obviously saw it

continue against Tennessee. So I think you need to go back to maybe earlier season Bortles in the playoffs and try to throw not 30 times a game. I think they threw a 14 times game against Pittsburgh. That will obviously increase, but it shouldn't by much. I'm looking at 20 attempts, maybe for Bortles is the perfect amount, and then hope the running backs are healthy and can get you there and then a defensive touchdown. That's the recipe for a Jaguars win. I'm higher on Bortles than you are, I guess is what I'm saying. Here's my issue, and it's not that he's the worst quarterback in the NFL. It's that he can be on any given day. That's my concern, is that there's no consistency whatsoever. There's no way to

predict what he's going to be in any given week outside of trying to limit his workload. And that's what frightens me. If he has one of those bad days, which they're always looming, it can absolutely sink a very fun team that has a lot going for it outside of Blake Portals. I just feel like that is kind of lurking in the background here against the team like Pittsburgh or New England. It's not fun. This is not something you want to have to be this bombshell that can just destroy your season

when you've had so many intriguing fun parts of your team all year. Yeah, I mean, I think it's actually not dissimilar to the Cam Newton situation. Obviously, Bortles and Cam Newton are very, very different players, but Cam Newton's floor is pretty low at this point. He has 16 interceptions on the season. And there's just some games where you're just going to flat out stink. And when that happens, it really ruins a lot of talent around him. And like you said, takes a very fun team out of it. All right.

Let's move to third down here. Black Monday fell on New Year's Day this year, which means, a handful of coaches are starting off the year by getting the axe. Six teams looking for new coaches now, Kevin, were any of these a surprise to you? I was happy to see some of the of the retainments. I think Vance Joseph, I don't know if Vance Joseph is a good coach,

but we talked about this last week and the week before. Who are you going to get? You know, who are you going to get? And it's the same thing with the Jets with Todd Bulls. You know, you really want to go into a coaching market with seven openings and try to compete and say, oh, maybe we'll just get Matt Patricia or whatever. you don't know.

Josh McDaniels might have four offers this time next week. And so I was happy with some of the patience. Obviously the Jack Del Rio thing. I mean, that escalated pretty quickly, man. It was fast. And I also just, I don't know, I may be crazy, but what is with John Gruden? Like, why do we, why is there this John Gruden obsession? I just, I don't understand it.

John Gruden hasn't coached in the league in 10 years. John Gruden's teams that were really good. I understand what he did with Gannon and in Oakland. I understand how good those offenses were. That's fine. The Bucks won the Super Bowl because they had the best past defense of the last 25 years. This wasn't some miraculous job by John Gruden. And some of the things that are kind of rumored, I like, the fact that he wants Johnny

Morton to run his offense. Okay, that's great. That's exactly what I was about to say. Sweet. Like, that is a good choice. But I think just, I don't know, this love that people have for what John Gruden is an NFL coach, 10 years is a long time, man. That's a long time to be out of the league.

And I understand he watches it and whatever. It could work out. I just don't think it's this slam dunk that a lot of other people seem to. So Dick Vermeal stopped coaching the Eagles in 1982. He resumed coaching in 1997 with the Rams and obviously won a Super Bowl and then built a pretty good chief's team after that. That is the closest comparison, even though it was 15 years, not 10 years. The one thing I'll say that that's different is the NFL has evolved so many times since Gruden left, whereas the innovation cycle was not nearly as fast from 1982 to 1997.

It was certainly a different era of football and it didn't change nearly as much from year to year as the NFL has. I mean, the NFL, think about the way the passing skyrocketed, okay, in 2011, and then now that's on the decline. So it's basically the game has reinvented itself twice wholesale over in the 10 years he's been gone. And so, I mean, Gruden obviously is exactly exactly what he said. He's been watching the game. He's been in production meetings. I think, you know, you can sell a team on that. You know, hey, I'm watching a game every week.

I'm meeting with coaches every week. I understand the game. But it's, unless you're actually game planning, it's pretty tough to stay on trend. Yes, 100%. And again, there are things that I like that I've heard. I think that if you were going to mention one name to me, about who you'd want to be your offensive coordinator, he said the right name. I mean, obviously he didn't.

That's a rumor. But that's the type of name I want to hear. But the other part of this, and I think one of the reasons that you have a guy like Gruden in the mix now, you have just kind of more out-of-the-box choices is because I don't think that there are a slate of candidates, there is a slate of candidates this year, that competes with the one that there was last year. There is no one available right now that I think is as good of a head coaching candidate as Kyle Shanahan was at this point last year.

I just don't think there is. And I mean, we know what happened with Sean McVeigh, and I think that we didn't know what Sean McVe was at this time last year, but I don't even know if there's Sean McVeigh. So I think that's the problem with the teams looking for coaches right now, and my team's one of them. So I feel like the right people have been thrown around in my mind and the fact that they've requested to talk to Pat Schumer,

the fact that they've requested to talk to Josh McDaniels. Those are the guys I'd want, but I feel like the pool gets very thin, very fast. And a team like the Colts, can you imagine if a team, Tom Cable is their head coach? Like, why did you fire the last guy? It's going to go away very fast here. And I think that's the concern with how many guys have lost their jobs.

And with Oakland is a little bit different because they knew they could get Gruden. It's been kind of in the works. But with the teams that are kind of scrambling now and have to dig into this, you know, pile of mediocrity in a way, I think there could be some really disastrous results. But here's the thing. So you signed Del Rio. First of all, the Raiders don't have much money to begin with. You signed Del Rio to an extension.

Then you're going to give Gruden, isn't the rumor like $10 million a year and an ownership stake? Or how much does he make now? I'm sure he makes close to that. So you've got to probably beat that. Something like that. That's what I heard a couple years ago. But listen, that's a lot of investment in something that you're not totally sure is going to work out. Because it's totally different from just hiring a random coordinator who you would at least know is going to be able to stick around for three years and sort of no.

I mean, Gruden has been out of the game for 10 years. You don't know what kind of energy he has. You just, you don't understand his grasp on the game. There are a lot of unknowns. Obviously, John Gruden will figure it out and he will get to a place where, especially like you said, you know, the John Morton hire would be a home run. If he's a CEO type, this is a different situation. But man, there is no ceiling on this.

There is no floor on this and there is no ceiling on this. It could, it could go real bad. I'm just thinking about what's worked out this year. And I'm thinking about the fact that I was in the Rams locker room last week. And they have a 31-year-old guy who seems like he's, you know, something has been injected into his eyeballs every 10 minutes. Like, he's just constantly going. And the energy is something that is so palpable.

And I can't think of something more removed from that than bringing back a 54-year-old guy who hasn't been in a league in 10 years. I just maybe, again, maybe it works out. And maybe we're trying. There's too much being put into what McVeigh and Shanahan have done as 30-something guys. with young rosters. I mean, 49ers scored 32 points a game over the last month.

But maybe there is too much of we're trying to replicate things that aren't replicable. But I still just look at what's happened and worked recently. And the fact that there just aren't that many of those options there right now. And I think it's concerning. And as a fan of a team that needs a coach, I am concerned. Hey, why did the bear assign Ryan Pace to a four-year extension?

I have no idea. Was someone going to hire Ryan Pace away? I just, what the hell? I feel like my pace has done a fine job. Some of the free agent signings have been an absolute train wreck. I mean, the Glennon thing is a lot of the other deals he signed. The Marcus Wheaton contract is quietly awful. Dion Sims.

There's been a lot of really bad deals, but he's drafted decently well. And I think that he deserved to keep his job. But that's all he deserved was to keep his job. I have no idea what the thought is of saying he deserves four more years. Let's just play this out. I just don't understand. It's very strange. That's a

commitment to stability that defies logic. You know, I think a lot of times owners and team presidents, you know, there's, oh, well,

we're going to stay the course. But you don't need to stay the course that much. You don't need to just randomly give out extensions to guys. Brian Pace isn't going anywhere. Yeah, it makes no sense to me.

Again, this is a franchise that makes more a reflection decision after another. Is here where we talk about Ted Thompson, Mace? Man,

I mean, I was shocked. by that. I mean, Ted Thompson's not a young man. I mean, I assume that he, the rigors of the job are not that far for him anymore. He also travels a lot. Sure. He's one of those GMs just constantly on the road watching games. They all, all of those Ron Wolf guys are always in press boxes. It's incredible. That's not, people think that GMs are sitting around watching college prospects all the time. That's not really the case, man. I mean, it's pretty rare to find a guy who just acts like a road scout when they've got the top job. Yeah. I mean, Ted Thompson's

constantly around. And, you know, Ted Thompson's 64 years old. He's done this job for a very long time. His first year was 2005. And in 2005, they picked a pretty good guy, 24th overall. He turned out fine. The job that Ted Thompson did was remarkable. I think people, there's some revisionist history about the Packers only winning on Super Bowl and some of the shortcomings he had as an evaluator and his free agent strategy, everything else. The Packers were constantly stocked with talent. I mean, if you think Ted Thompson did not do a good job as the general manager, or the Packers. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, I mean, it's, he should be remembered as a guy who really solved that era of,

of football team building. I mean, I think that it's probably outdated now in 2018, just the way the salary cap is risen to only build in-house. But the ability, you know, I think the year that they, the year that they got to buy in 2015, I want to say, they had two guys on the 50s. three-man roster who ever played for another team. And I believe that both of them, or two guys who were drafted by another team, excuse me. And one of them was Julius Peppers. And the other, I think, was a little Troy Guy on, I think.

And so, I mean, you just get into how you build a dominant team only using the draft, not going out and getting free agents. I mean, it was incredible team building. And he should be remembered as one of the best GMs. ever. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, just think about outside of Rogers and people saying that drafting Rogers 24th is not some sort of skill, do you know how hard it is to draft a quarterback in the first round when your Hall of Fame quarterback is not leaving anytime soon? It's impossible. I mean, that is such a difficult decision. And it's his first year as the GM. It's not like he's

this guy who's built up all this goodwill and you can make a decision like that and not get roasted for it if it goes wrong. This is a guy in his first couple months on the job here, drafting a quarterback when you have Brett Farf and a playoff caliber team. I mean, they were consistently in the postseason. It's not as if the end was near. The easiest thing in the world for him to do would have been if the legend was staying around to panic trade him to San Francisco for a second round pick. Yes.

That would be the easiest thing. Which recently happened with a young quarterback. And the Rogers thing, you know, that'll loom the largest. But I think that if you look at the back end of the draft, the guys he found in the fourth round, it's just remarkable. All the offensive line. T.J. Lange, Josh, Sidden, and David Bogtiari, all of whom are among the, you know, four or five best players at their position in the league or have been for the last few years were fourth round picks. Mike Daniels was a fourth round pick.

I mean, the guys he found that ended up being just top end players is ridiculous. I mean, I think that, again, Air Rogers is the thing that haunts me at night, but Ted Thompson is not far behind. And the fact that now it's going to be handed off to somebody else. It's going to make my life a little bit easier, I would hope. Yep. Ted Thompson, remembered fondly, really good GM. probably game, not the game passed him by. That's ridiculous to say, but the way team building are structured now,

a little different, but not by much. And so, kudos to Ted Thompson for a nice career. Here's one more thing I want to mention about this before we move on. If you're the Green Bay, why wouldn't you call John Schneider? Yeah. Well, he signed an extension two years ago, and the word is that there were rumors he had an out in his previous contract to go to Green Bay.

and the rumor is that he no longer has that out. Gotcha. Okay. I knew that rumor had existed, but. Everything is breaking. Send a third round pick to Seattle. Who care? I mean, Seattle might be blowing the whole thing up.

That's kind of my thought. Who the hell knows what's going on? That's kind of my thought is that where Seattle is right now, this would be the perfect time to maybe be able to get him for nothing or next to nothing. All right. Fort down. I want to talk about some potential playoff X factors here, Kevin, including one guy who had a huge game on Sunday.

Kickoff by Gonzales. the five by Juju. 10, right side, 15. Still on his feet at 20, 25, 30. Cuts it back. Juju. He's on his way. One man to beat.

2015, 10. Touchdown. Jiu, Smith, Juster. So I wrote a little bit about this today. I did a kind of extended starting 11 just as a standalone post, and one of them was about Juju Smith-Juster. And I think that at the time when Jiu got drafted, it was like, oh, this is kind of a luxury pick. You know, they drafted him back into the same. second round. He's Martavis-Brient insurance a little bit. They'll work him in. He's already,

like, would be the best receiver on half the teams in the league. And he plays on a team with Antonio Brown and Levi-on-Bel. Like, this guy can do everything. The fact that he, so he got 58% of his routes are run from the slot. I look this up. He leads the league in yards per route run from the slot. So he's the most efficient slot receiver in the NFL. But you can also put him outside, and he's making jump ball catches 40 yards down the field. I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous that he can fill both of these roles as a rookie and is by far the second best wide receiver on his team. And the third guy is Martavis Bryant. I just don't know how the Steelers managed to do this.

And I think that as we're trying to place and kind of piece together what's going to happen over the next month or so, the idea that the Steelers now have an endless reservoir of playmakers, I think that's going to end up mattering. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, I think that there are a couple guys on the Jaguars who can actually have. have an X factor potential. I think one of the things that Blake Bortle has gotten better at, I know it sounds ridiculous, but if you look at the tape,

you look at the stats, one of the things he's gotten better at is knowing he doesn't have to just chuck it down the field. And I think a lot of that comes with just being in better game situations. I think that when he was down 21 points in the second quarter for three years, all of a sudden you're saying, okay, I need to get the 40-yard touchdown now. His ability to put it in the hands of guys like Keelan Cole.

Keel and Cole is averaging 17.8 yards. per reception at this point. I mean, he's, he is awesome. And he there, there are a couple weapons like that. There are a couple weapons like that. D.D. Westbrook was talking about, you know, Blake's ability or in the offense ability, and a lot of this goes Nathan Hackett, but the ability just quickly check into passes when there's a nine-man box and just put the ball in D.D. Westbrook's hands and, and let him make a play. And so there are a handful of X factors, especially you look at the receiver position across wildcard weekend. But just like Juju, I think there's some, guys in Jacksonville. Obviously, the

quarterback play is very different, but I think there are guys in Jacksonville have the capability to break loose and win a game for those guys. Yeah, I think that those wide receivers are interesting for Jacksonville. I also think on defense, you can name anybody. You know, whoever you want to throw out there is... But they're not an X factor.

They're just the reason they're in the playoffs. Sure, but I think that when I'm talking about XFactor is just guys that could on one given day just ruin a game. You just have like this unbelievable performance that changes the entire complexion of the game. And I think that they have so many of those guys. Another guy that, you know, showed up this weekend and people thought it was just kind of a joke.

James Harrison had two sacks on Sunday, and he made a ton of plays. He's going to play for New England, and that is the thing they lacked the most, was an edge rusher that can make stuff happen. And I know James Harrison is not good anymore, but he's going to get a shot for them. And if he can make one or two of those plays a game, that makes a difference. That's a huge factor for them, and it's something they didn't have. I mean, they picked him up for literally nothing. So I think he's another one of those guys, and the other guy that's,

stood out to me this week, and he's just become one of the better linebackers in the league, is Dionne Jones. I just feel like his speed in the middle of the field and his ability to kind of make really game-changing plays, picks, whatever, that's going to show up. I think that Atlanta, again, they don't have this down-in-and-down-out efficiency on defense, but they do have guys that can swing the game instantly. And right now, he's number one for me. I mean, he's kind of come into that Bobby Wagner, Lou Keekly echelon of coverage linebackers

that transcend the typical value. of that position. Yep. I mean, the defense that Tom DeMitchoff is built, they got so athletic in the last couple of years. And that's one of the things that I think, I think it gets overshadowed by how good the offense is, but they have some really, really athletic pieces.

And when you have athletic guys who can swarm the ball, those guys can be game wreckers. When you talk about X factors, guys, as you said, on any given day, can ruin a game. It's those athletic type linebackers who can just make, a play and ruin a day for a team like LA. All right. Let's get to your craziest headline from the weekend. What are you going with?

Yeah. So I loved this performance, but I thought it was really funny, the reaction to it. It was Patrick Mahomes' performance on Sunday, which obviously he had some great plays. He's going to be a player. Andy Reid has his quarterback of the future. But almost immediately after, there were all these stories about whether or not Mahomes is locked up the 2018 starting job. And I understand why that happens, and I understand sort of why fans want to look ahead because they've seen enough of Alex Smith. But, I mean, they are playing a home playoff game next Sunday,

and I'm not totally sure what they're going to do, but we've seen this team already destroy the Patriots. We've seen how this offense can look when they're clicking. They seem to return to form a little bit in the last couple weeks at Alex Smith. I just think it's a little bit premature, guys, to say that Alex Smith's going to get out of town and Patrick Mahomes is absolutely the training camp starter

for the Kansas City Chiefs. I think Andy Reid is as hard to predict as anyone. He's done some unorthodox things in his career. I wouldn't be surprised if anything happens, but this idea that Mahomes has locked up some sort of job for next year a little bit premature on my end. I think there's a 6% chance that Alex Smith

is a starting quarterback of the Chiefs next year. 6%. I agree with that. I think the discussion is, been framed in a weird way. That's fair. I don't think it has anything to do with how good Patrick Mahomes can look and how much of a senior, how defined of a ceiling Alex Smith has.

I think this is about simple. To me, it's about simple economics. I mean, the chiefs are $4 million over the salary cap right now. They save $17 million if they cut Alex Smith. I just don't think he can be there. There's not tangible when you have another quarterback on the roster that is your future

to spend $20.6 million dollars on Alex Smith when you don't have any money. What if he gets to the AFC championship game? I just, I still don't think it happens. I don't think this is, this is not about results to me. I just feel like this was the plan. I mean, it becomes a time where you have to make this decision,

just to build the rest of your roster. Alex Smith was undeniably the better option of quarterback for the chiefs this year. He may be the better option of quarterback for the chiefs next year. Patrick Mahomes, I tweeted this before the draft and I still believe it. Patrick Mahomes looks like a guy who's doing like a thought project. on the idea of quarterback. It's not real quarter.

I mean, and it's fascinating. But Alex Smith is the better option for them, and he still may be next season. But at a certain point, it no longer becomes feasible. I agree with that. And look, again, as I said, Patrick Mahomes is really freaking good. But I just think that this idea that before they host a home playoff game, that Patrick Mahomes is written in in ink as the starter for next year, a little premature on my end. That's all.

That's fair. That's fair. I just think that there are so many factors pointing to it that it's probably going to happen. All right, time now for my ringer of the week. I'm going to go with a guy who is probably one of the more overlooked players in football simply because of who is around him. And that's Anderson Dejo, the safety for the Vikings. I watched a lot of that Bears Vikings game, obviously, and he was all over the place.

And the reason I wanted to talk about him is because that, I think, points to a larger topic of conversation about the Vikings defense in general. Anderson Dejo is probably, I don't even think it's an argument that he's the worst player on that defense. And I don't mean that in a pejorative way. He is just the, among all those stars, he's the guy that is forgotten. And when you look at Minnesota right now, all season we've talked about the offense. Because it's a good story.

Case Keenham came out of nowhere. They're one of the most efficient offenses in the league. Adam The one was on the practice squad. All that stuff is fun. Minnesota is number one in weighted defensive DVOA. They were the best defense in the league down the stretch. Do you know how many collective starts defense on their two deep have been missed by the Minnesota defense this year? Tell me.

Three. That's it. It's impossible to be this healthy. And when you're this complete and this healthy, you get really terrifying in a hurry. And the fact that you have guys like Andrewsendahoe at the bottom of that pecking order that can make three or four plays for you a game, I just feel like right now I feel the best about Minnesota. In the NFC? Yes. Yeah. Oh, I agree. I mean, I'm on record as saying that they're my favorite. It's a similar kind of deal to what happened with Atlanta last year. They were the two seed. then Aaron Rogers knocked off the pack of the Cowboys.

The Vikings don't even need that. Nick Foles is playing quarterback for the Eagles. We'll talk about that with Danny in a second. Minnesota, this is not a pipe dream to think that they can just stay home throughout the playoffs. I mean, I really do believe that's what's going to happen. You have no faith in Nick Folles winning a playoff game.

I don't. I think that the only way, I mean, the only reason I have faith in the Eagles winning a playoff game is that there's still a recipe with the rest of that roster, but it's not about the running game and the offensive line making stuff happen. it's about the defense winning as 13 to 6 game. That defense is good enough to do it.

And they played well even without their real guys on Sunday. I think those are the type of games that the Eagles have to win now. And the fact that they scored 30 points eight times and we've gotten to this is just kind of ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, obviously it comes down to opponent with Philadelphia because if they play a team where there could be a shootout, that's tough. But if they get in, if they play a crappy offense and they might, They have the chance to, you know, get their ability to, we saw it against the L.A. Rams a couple weeks ago. Their ability to score defensive touchdown or create big turnovers is there. Who's the crappy offense in the NFC playoffs outside of Philadelphia?

I think Carolina has the capability to be a crappy offense. I don't think Carolina is going to beat Morelands. I mean, I think that's, I mean, that's where I'm sitting. I just don't feel like Carolina is going to be there to play the Eagles. I truly, I mean, for first of all, Carolina is the 5C. So likely do you, so let's, let's map this out right now. So Atlanta, L.A. You pick L.A.

Yes. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. So you think New Orleans would be Carolina? Yes. Okay. So in that scenario, and I probably agree with you, New Orleans plays at Philadelphia and I think wins

pretty handily. But if Carolina beats New Orleans, it's a different discussion. Yes. I agree with that. I still think that Carolina can't beat New Orleans. I mean, obviously, they can, but I just feel like New Orleans is the better team by a lot. So I'm assuming New Orleans wins that game. And then you don't really have that low-scoring team that you can win that Slugfest with because it no longer exists.

Right. I mean, that's it. Literally the only option is they get into a slug fest and, you know, there's a pick six or a fumble six in the fourth quarter and they win. That's pretty much it. I mean, Nick Foles, you read the T leaves out of Philadelphia. It looks like he doesn't have a lot of confidence right now. it's kind of a disaster. And I feel really, really bad for Eagles fans.

I think that they still have a lot of optimism that maybe they, they shouldn't have. But it sucks. I'd much rather see Wentz right now than Nick Foles, just from a football watching standpoint. But on the other hand, it adds a lot of intrigue to the NFC. So I agree with you. If I were to bet anything, it would be Minnesota staying home the whole time. As I've said, the last couple weeks, Minnesota is my NFC favorite. And so, yeah, I mean, that's, there is as completed team as there is right now.

By the way, Sam Bradford, Sam Bradford returning to practice this week in case you needed some useless trivia. Yeah, I mean, also, but, I mean, that matters. Like, if you lose your quarterback and Sam Bradford's your backup, that's a pretty decent option, you know, that stuff. But who's the bad is, isn't, isn't Teddy Bridgewater the backup? I don't know what they're going to do with that. That's interesting. But having Sam Bradford on your roster for the playoffs is not a bad thing. No, of course.

Coming up, we're going to talk about the Eagles a little bit more with Danny. We're going to talk about the flaws of all of the top. to teams on by. Plus, we'll offer our lasting impressions from the regular season. It's the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. Kevin, shopping for us, guys, is usually a total pain. Unless it's shopping for lightweight jackets, I'm over. Bomfell is an amazing service that makes it way easier for men to get better clothes, including lightweight jackets for you, buddy.

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Plus, you have the option of receiving clothes once every one, two or three months. Since we're at such big fans, we've negotiated with Bonfell to get our listeners a special offer of $25 off your first purchase when you go to Bonfell.com slash NFL. That's Bomfell spelled B-O-M-B-F-E-L dot com slash NFL. Bomfell, open and close. Time to welcome in our good friend, Danny Kelly. Danny, how you feeling, buddy? No Seahawks in the playoffs for the first time. And I don't know.

How long? Way too long. It's actually, I think it's the first time since I've been sort of covering football professionally, actually. It's kind of crazy. Sounds like a rough life. Yeah, it's okay. Your team's in the playoffs every single year. I recognize the fact I've been pretty lucky in that.

I started out as Seahawks writer, obviously, and so it's a good time to get into the game. So whatever. Now we can concentrate on other teams. Let's talk about a couple other teams that are in the NFC playoffs. The Vikings and the Eagles at the top of the NFC, they head into the buy. two very different trajectories here. Yeah. We've talked about the Eagles a little bit today.

We know what their kind of Achilles heel is. If you're looking at Minnesota, what is the thing you feel like could derail Minnesota in the NFC because they look right now like they might be the most complete team? I mean, yeah, I went in and I was just trying to find, I guess, like you said, their Achilles Hill, the one weakness that they could have. And it's just actually really hard to find one. I mean, they're just such a balanced team. I guess you could say Case Keeneham.

playoff and experience or something like that if you really want to dig deep but I mean he's just played really really well all year their run game hasn't seemed to really skip a beat since dalvin cook went out you know they've got big playmakers in the passing game you know big tight end that that scores touchdowns and their defense is ridiculously good so I mean it I guess yeah like I guess the Keenum factor is like is he going to turn back into a pumpkin once a playoff start that could be like the one sort of thing that you worry about but I'm really not that worried about it

I mean this team just looks really dominant right now they just haven't slowed down Danny are you shorting Case Keenham's experience in the Ticket City Bowl in 2011 oh man I don't even know what that is I just I just looked it up

it's not great they won 30 to 14 over Penn State I mean he was in he was incredible in college It was the 2011 season. Wow. I can't believe Case Keenom's only been in the league for six years. It seems like it was a longer ago. I know.

We talk about him like he's old. He was on the 2012 Houston Texans. That was his rookie year. There you go. How did Case play in that game is do you have a box score? I can't even find one. No, I can't. Keenham passed for 532 yards in that game.

I mean, his college numbers are ridiculous. Well, it's really funny to me because, because he was like, you know, played Fisherball or whatever, we get this idea that he's a game manager and that he's just conservative. And to a large extent, a lot of the offense has been putting the ball in the hands of Diggs and Thielen. But our man threw for 500 yards like all the time in college. First of all, Case Keatom, there's nothing conservative about Case Keatom.

I think that is one of the things you can point to. Yeah. I mean, I think if Minnesota is going to lose, I think there are two things that I would look at. One, it's the fact that Case is liable to throw it to the other team every once in a while. I mean, he is not afraid to let it rip. And it's both that and the way he dances around in the pocket, he avoids a lot of sacks, but he's also moving around a lot. I mean, you get hit from behind, whatever, that ball comes out.

I think him turning it over once or twice is the start of that whatever formula you need to beat them. And the other thing is Nick Easton, their offensive line was healthy all year. It was the biggest difference between them this year and last year. Nick Easton breaks his leg He's out for the season Elfline was hurt this week So they had to move some guys around They move Remmers inside

I think that that if they don't get healthy If Elfline is hampered whatever It's the shuffling on that offensive line Plus just a couple bad decisions By Keenham That is the start of how you can beat them But I still think even that's a stretch It just feels to me like we're still underrating

The Vikings I don't know why that is I think it probably has a lot to do with Keenham But man I was looking at their defensive numbers too I saw this on ESPN. They are number one in yards allowed this year. They had the top scoring defense. And I don't know if this stat is right, but they had the lowest third down conversion rate all time as a defense.

Like they allowed 25.2% of third down conversions all year. I mean, that's insane. I believe it. I'll tell you what, one of the things I get angry about the Wence injury, again, just from a football standpoint, from a football watching standpoint, Wence was one of the best in the modern era at converting third down.

So if he were there, we would have an NFC championship game that was absolutely perfect. And now we don't get that. Now we have Nick Foles, who has completed 47% of his passes. I would be pretty into New Orleans heading to Minnesota for an NFC championship game. I'm cool with that. Me too. We've also seen that game before in the NFC championship game. It was in week one.

I meant the ghosts of far throwing a random stray pick. Oh, yeah, that's right. Oh, man, I forgot about that. That was a fun year. All right, Danny. So with the Eagles, you just said it. You know, it's the Foles thing. I mean, is that just, is there any way that they overcome whatever Nick Foles is at this point and have a shot to do something in the playoffs? I mean, I think that they still are, in terms of their defense special teams, they're still balanced enough to make some noise. I don't think that that is going to be consistent enough for them to really make a run in the playoffs. I think obviously it helps that they have home field advantage and that's huge.

And I mean, as we saw, you know, this is obviously against the Giants defense that wasn't good, but Foles looked really good in his first game back. So he's got that in him. And I mean, obviously he's got that history of being really efficient. But to me, the odds are just so much more against that happening. I just don't see them doing that for two, three games in a row. and so I don't know, man. I think it's kind of unfair or it sucks that we're overlooking the Eagles already

considering they're the number one seed. But yeah, I've almost kind of already written them off at this point. I know Chris Ryan's not going to be happy to hear me say. If you're Philly, though, wouldn't the move be to just Bortles your quarterback, have him throw 12 times and run it 35 times and just hope that's the way you can win? And I mean, that gives them a good chance, I think, still. I still think they can compete. But again, I mean, it's like doing that two, three times against some of the top teams in the NFC.

I don't know, man. I don't see it. Hey, Mays, would Blake Bortles improve the Eagles? Oh, my God. Maybe. I just feel like with Bortles, the unpredictability factor is not good when the rest of your team is that good. That's how I feel. I feel the same way about Jacksonville.

So I would not like to watch Blake Bortles with the Eagles because the rest of that team is too good. If you put Blake Bordels on every single NFL team, who would win the Super Bowl? Would be the Eagles? Yeah, I think it'd be the Eagles. That's the question there is who is the best roster. If the playoffs were just 12 Blake Bordels. I think it's still the Eagles.

I think the Eagles have the best roster. I think Jags are close. I think Pittsburgh is right there. But I think the Eagles are number one, which is really unfortunate that the Eagles can't win a playoff game. I can't believe we've got to that point. All right, Danny. Thanks a lot, bud.

You'll be back Friday. We'll chat about these wildcard games. As always, we appreciate it. All right, sounds good, guys. Thanks. All right, Kevin, before we get out of here, let's offer our lasting impressions from week 17. What you got?

I'm mostly proud of us doing a thought experiment in which Blake Bortles is on every single NFL team. Yeah, that was the best part of the podcast. So my lasting impression is just how fun the NFC is going to be. I think when you saw the way the AFC shook out on Sunday and you just saw the teams that maybe shouldn't be in there sneaking in there and the fact that we're going to have to see Tennessee

and we're going to see Buffalo, which by the way, we love Buffalo as a team and an entity and a city, but from a football watching standpoint, not the greatest team in the world to see, okay? But when you compare that to the NFC and you realize that quite literally, any team except maybe the top seed

can make the Super Bowl or win the Super Bowl, who the hell knows, that's fun. And that's what the NFL playoffs. That's why everyone loves it. And that's why it's the best time of the year. And these next two weeks, I don't know if you agree with me, Robert, but wild card weekend and divisional weekend, especially divisional weekend, are the two most fun weeks of the year for me. Divisional weekend's number one for a lot, by a lot. Yeah, exactly. Do you for Wildcard week or conference championship week? Conference championship week. Wildcard week, the games is not good enough. I love the conference

championship games because in a way, I feel like the conference championship games are the coolest NFL games to be because they have an actual atmosphere. Like, the Super Bowl is just so aniseptic and weird at times. When I think about covering football in general, the thing I always think about is the Richard Sherman Interception NFC Championship game against the ice. I wasn't there. I was at the AFC championship game that year.

I was at the Packers Seahawks NFC Championship game. And that just that place. I was at the AFC championship game and that was deflate game. Wow. What a terrible game to be at. It was tough. It was tough. Yeah.

I mean, those are my favorite games that I've ever covered. I mean, I've had some really just cool experiences doing those. I mean, being at a couple Patriots AFC championship games, you know, watching that Broncos team beat New England in that one year. I mean, it's, I've had some really cool times at those. So those are my favorite still just because I'm often there. But Wild Card Week is fun in its own right, man. Wild Card Week, is just crazy. And it has the capability of being really fun.

fact that some of these teams are deeply flawed makes it more fun. Obviously, I think we both want to see, we just talked about it, you know, Saints versus Vikings in the NFC championship game. That's a fun game. But so too can, you know, a deeply flawed Carolina team trying to beat the Saints. That's fun too. And that's what this weekend's all about. The NFC is going to rule. Yeah, that's kind of where I landed too, is that, you know, this season was weird and sad and it sucked in a lot of ways. and even like the Wents injury is a late season addition to that. But even all of that considered, the playoffs that we're going to have are extremely fun.

And that starts with the AFC field or the NFC field in general. And it's kind of the uncertainty in the games we're going to get there pretty much from the start. And then I know the AFC isn't as good top to bottom, but I mean, can you imagine if we get to watch Pittsburgh New England again? Like, that's incredible. Like, I'm so looking forward to that. And that's the great tradeoff is that we're going to get a better NFC playoff. but we're probably going to get a better

AFC championship. Yes, I totally agree. And again, after everything we kind of had to endure at times this season, the fact that we're set up for this fun of a month, it's the best time of the year, man. I'm very excited. I'm excited to start going to games. I'm excited to just be around football and be around some really good football here

from now until I'll see you in Minneapolis a month from now, man. Fired up, buddy. All right. That's it for today. As always, we really appreciate you guys listening. We'll be back Friday to get everyone set for Wild Car Weekend. Thank you for listening to the Ringar NFL show on the Ring of Podcast Network.