The Ringer NFL Show - What the Chiefs-Rams Game Means for the League | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 350)

Episode Date: November 22, 2018

The Chiefs and Rams have set the precedent for an exciting new future in the NFL, both on offense and defense (2:00). On this week's Take Shop, can the Bears still win the NFC North with Chase Daniel, and can teams win back-to-back Super Bowls in the modern NFL? (17:00) Plus the biggest three games of the week, and the growing trend of more teams drafting first-round quarterbacks (31:00). Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Check out Ringer merch at theringer.com/shop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Yahoo Sports app is your ticket to NFL football during Thanksgiving and all season long. To a special Thanksgiving edition of the Ringer NFL podcast, I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. How you doing, buddy? What's your favorite Thanksgiving dish, Robert Mays? I'm a big fan of just starches in general. So I made this at a Friendsgiving last week, and we always had it in my family Thanksgiving. It's not mashed potatoes. It's a mashed potato, Casperol that's very Midwestern it tinged.

So there's cream cheese in it. sour cream in it. I'm a big fan of that kind of stuff. A sweet potato casserole with some marshmallows. Just that texture. I don't know. Those are always my favorite ones because I just feel like I could eat a ton of them. Chase Daniels. I don't care. Chase Daniels. Chase Daniels. What about him? He's starting for your favorite NFL team on Thursday. That's not my favorite Thanksgiving dish. Chase Daniel starting for my NFL team. I was just getting you in a good mood, getting you to talk about Thanksgiving, and then I was going to just drop Chase Daniel on you. Thanks. Thanks. I really appreciate that. We'll get to Chase Daniel.

We'll get to all the games that are, some of the most important games that are happening this weekend. Before we do that, though, let's go back to really the only story in the NFL that currently matters. And that's the Chiefs Rams game. It's two days later, but I feel like there's still a ton to unpack here. Not necessarily the outcome, what happened, but what that game says about the league right now. I know there have been jokes about, is it really the future of the NFL when it's 9, 6 in the Cowboys Redskins game? are we really going to be thinking about all the beauty that happened on Monday night? But I do think there's a ton to take away from that game.

I wrote about it on Tuesday, but I'm curious what you think. When you were watching that game, what was your first thought about what other teams in the NFL should learn about it and what sort of impact it's going to have? Well, my first thought was it's happening because I've talked to a lot of people going back. And I don't really think, you know, some pundits have talked about this, but it's not getting enough attention, that everyone kept saying, wow, this is the future and all that. The Super Bowl was the future. The Super Bowl had over a thousand yards.

That was the game when I talked to Lincoln Riley a couple of weeks ago that he said, okay, that was the first time I realized the NFL was becoming the Big 12. All of these things happened literally in front of 100 million people. We just didn't notice it because it was the Super, it was the Super Bowl. We weren't looking through it the context of this offensive evolution stuff. Patrick Mahomes wasn't there. Jared Goff wasn't there. It was just Bill Belichick versus Doug Peterson.

And we didn't realize what was happening because these teams seemed fairly, they did not seem like they were the beacons of innovation they actually were. I don't think Bill Belichick and Doug Beerson got enough credit at the time for the kind of performances they put on offensively as far as just evolution goes. I think this is the future. I think it's going to take a long time to get here, but I think we're going to see a lot more of these than we are going back to the running game or the pendulum swinging or whatever.

That might happen, but before we get there, we're going to get a lot more games like Monday night. I'm not saying every game is going to be the third highest scoring game in history. Not every game is going to have 105 points, but we're getting there to where it is. Every game is a shootout. All these seemingly low probability event things happen. We're talking three touchdowns and five passes kind of stuff. I mean, this is what these teams were built for and now teams are going to build from that.

One of the things in my reporting, when you look back at NFL history, the reason things become commonplace is because they work and they become mainstream. You know, I remember talking to Jimmy Johnson about this a couple of years ago, actually around the Chip Kelly time. And he told him that after they both retired, Bill Parcells and he sat down. Parcells told him a story about the late 80s Cowboys, where Phil Sims said, I think you threw a quick interception in a game or something. And Sims came over to Parcells and said, we've got to stop this college defense. And Parcell said, well, you better get used to this college defense because it's about to be a pro defense. And of course, everybody ripped off the Cowboys defense starting in the 1990s, but that's what happens.

College things become protein things when they work. And that's what's happening here. Even the most conservative coach is going to look at Monday night's tape and say, we got to do that. Yeah. And I feel like teams are going to try. Whether they can succeed is an entirely different conversation. And that's why I feel like the blueprint on display on Monday night is obvious, but not

necessarily easy to replicate. So what I wrote about on Tuesday, I guess very early on Tuesday morning, was kind of this four-pronged group of lessons that you can learn from that game. And one of those was just that you need the right infrastructure for your team. You need the right infrastructure for your offense. And I honestly believe that comes from a head coach that's also your offensive coordinator. I think that that is one of the biggest lessons that we've learned from this entire season. If you just look at the best teams in the NFL, all of them have that in common. The Saints, the Chiefs, and the Rams all have head coaches that call plays.

Some of the best stories, some of the most surprising stories in the NFL are the same way. Look at the Colts' offense and Frank Reich right now. Think about the Eagles last season with Doug Peterson. Like you said, when it works, people try to copy it. And I definitely think that's going to be something that is far more prevalent over the next two seasons than it might have been five or six years ago. The other thing that I really feel like is fascinating from that game, people are talking about how there was no defense. And I know there are a lot of points, but the four or the RAM scored two defensive touchdowns. The chief scored a defensive

touchdown. There was defense. There wasn't, there just wasn't sustained defense. There's defense in these game swinging singular moments. And I feel like that's what defenses are going to be now. I don't necessarily think that defense is less valuable. I think certain players on defenses are less valuable. You need a pass rusher. You need a game wrecker. I don't know if you necessarily need a second cornerback anymore. And those are the types of questions that teams are going to have to address this off season.

You know, it's interesting. I wonder if more, I guess you could phrase it, gambling type cornerbacks are going to become in vogue because they know that you can't stop them. So you might as well get a few turnovers every once in a while. Guys who jump routes may be less dependable route in route out because just the fact that you got to be able to create turnovers if you're going to get, it's like what we talked about. It's becoming basketball type defenses where there's so much scoring that you just got to get a couple breaks and you got to hope that you just get one more stop than they do.

I think that the types of players teams are going to scout for will change. I think that's what's going to be interesting about it. And the kind of the approaches that I thought were fascinating on Monday night, the Rams played cover zero and didn't blitz the entire game. The Chiefs blitzed all the time. And I know their offense, their, excuse me, their offenses are very different. but those different kinds of approaches, I feel like because those are so far apart,

it really lets you know that no one knows what the answer is right now. They're so disparate that there isn't even a middle ground that teams can try to find. And I just, I don't know. I'm overwhelmed by everything. There was just so much information coming from that game that it was kind of hard to sift through. It was like trying to fly through an asteroid field.

Have you done that before? No, I'm just thinking of Star Wars because I'm looking at Luke Skywalker. GIF right in front of me on Twitter right now. Okay. It's like the Wayne's World 2 thing where you're just saying out loud whatever you see in front of you. Yes. Okay. So I want to address one point that's been going around and

the point is, well, there won't be an offensive explosion because there aren't that many McVeigh's and Andy reads to go around, which is insane. I don't know how else to phrase that. We didn't know what we were looking for until the last 18 months.

McVeigh was an accident. It was not like everyone knew that McVeigh was this golden child who was going to revolutionize the Rams. There were people inside the league, and obviously this is not a litmus test because people inside the league are morons all the time. But there were people inside the league who were just like, oh, the Rams are just out there flailing because they got, they didn't have, get the guys they want or whatever. I mean, obviously they were, all of those people are varying degrees of stupid, but that Frank Reich was the cult's second choice. Right. Exactly. And so this idea that there's a finite amount of these sort of offensive gurus is ridiculous. They haven't mind

anything. And one of the things that happened in college was the hiring cycle started to speed up, the innovation cycle started to speed up. And so now you have guys who have one or, you know, a handful of good years in high school. And then they get a position coaching job in college. And they're calling plays at 28 or 29. Why can't that happen in the NFL? I mean, it's just ridiculous, this idea that there's a cap on the number of coaches who can do this. It is a great big world out there, dude. I mean, you hear this all the time. I'm not saying this is going to happen. But when you talk to to people inside the NFL, they say, dude, they're high school coaches who have such better ideas than guys at the NFL level. I'm not saying teams are going to grow out and hire high school coaches. I'm just saying

when colleges start to look at high school guys and then pro franchises start to look at college guys, everything starts to speed up and ideas get spread. And I think that's the, that's the thing that's going to help accelerate all of this. It's not this, this whole thing we saw on Monday night, It's not the end of anything. It's not the end of an innovation cycle. It's not the end of the innovation boom. It's not a result of anything. It's the beginning of something totally different.

It is the beginning of four or five years of absolute bonkers football. Why wouldn't you go try to talk to Chad Morris or Mike Leach or any of these guys? Or even, why wouldn't you go to talk to a college offensive coordinator and ask him to be your offensive coordinator? Like a Jake Spavitol at West Virginia or just anybody. all these guys that are involved with these really good college offenses, what downside is there by asking them if you want them to be your offensive coordinator? What is the downside?

I have no idea. I feel like the minds are there if you were willing to look in the right places. You look at a guy like Todd Munkin who had a pretty nice deal at Southern Miss. I'm not saying Southern Misses to be all end all, but he left to be a coordinator. And I think there's a lot of maybe even mid-level head coaches who say, heck, I'll take a million and a half a year to just not do any press conferences and hang out in a golf cart and call some plays. I mean, that's a pretty nice life, dude. Yeah, absolutely.

I just feel like they are there. They are there. And they're not going to be Reed and they're not going to be McVeigh. They're going to be mistakes. But they might be. We don't know. They might be. I'm just saying there are going to be a couple of that. Oh, no. My theory on this is we're going to see some of the worst coaches we've ever seen in the history of football. Yes. Because a couple guys have some good ideas on paper. They don't know how to organize a team. And all of a sudden, they go, oh, and 16. I think we're going to to see, it's going to be boom and bust. Oh, yeah.

There are going to be some horrendous hires. But I'd rather be wrong and interesting or wrong and headed in the right direction that in this stagnant place where you have absolutely no shot. And that's, I feel like you and I've been saying this for a little while. I think the kind of fervor has picked up over the last week or so. If you have a certain type of coach and a certain type of approach right now, you have no chance. No chance. the realm of possibility, there's just not even a single outcome where you are a contender

if you have a coach that thinks a certain way. I mean, look at the damn bears last year. Yes. And look at the bears now. And the bears are really good examples. I mean, when I talked to Dwell Loggins, but the Bears last year, he's now the coordinator in Miami. I did this story about how ideas sort of trickle up instead of trickle down.

He can read it on the ringer from a couple weeks ago. But every time it seemed like he had a new idea, John Foxwood, I don't know about that. And it's like, you know, ideas, I mean, I don't want to compare it to the tech world, but that's sort of the best analogy. Good ideas should come from everywhere, and they should be encouraged and embraced. And that's the best sort of tech companies, the best, best any company. That's how they work.

And that's how it should work with football. And you'd be surprised how often that does not happen. And the bears, everyone talks about Matt Nagy, and it's a perfectly good thing to talk about. it makes a lot of sense in this conversation. But the Bears hired Mark Helphrick as their offensive coordinator. It's that kind of stuff. It's that kind of outside the box thinking that I feel like more teams just need to embrace. You don't need to hire a college offensive coordinator, but you need a head coach like

Andy Reid that's going to see a college play and say, fuck yes, I love that. Give me more of those. There just aren't enough of them. There are still too many coaches that are putting up roadblocks to stuff like that, and you just can't do it anymore. Hey. The exchange of information, the exchange of ideas, there are no more. more barriers to that, and there can't be any more barriers to your willingness to accept them.

Can I say something that I thought was just sort of fascinating after that night? Sure. We saw 100 plus points. We saw some of the best offensive football we've ever seen possibly ever. We saw some of the most visually arresting plays I've ever seen best player on the field, Aaron Donald. Yes. But that's kind of what I'm saying.

That guy is not going to be less valuable. he's more valuable than he's ever been because you need a guy like that that can destroy the game with two or three plays. Without those Aaron Donald strip sacks, the Rams get blown out. They get blown out. They get destroyed in that game if he isn't there.

And that's why I feel like the Donalds and the Max, and they're both making $22 million a year now, I honestly think the chasm between those guys and your number one corners is going to grow even more because they're still extremely valuable. While cornerbacks and safeties can affect the game less than they ever have, I feel like there's an argument

that guys in the front floor and pass rushers can affect the game more than they ever have because there are more opportunities and offensive line play is that it's an idea right now. So I'm fascinated to see how that goes. He was double-teamed 72% of the time on Monday?

I think that was for the season. Okay. That's all you need to know. That's all you need to know. 17, yeah, 72% 13 sacks, 72% double team. I have a question. If there was some sort of expansion draft, and you were staying cronkey, and you had to give up two of Gough, Donald,

and McVeigh, who's the one person you keep? Who's the J? I know, Damoc check. Okay, you keep McVeigh over to Aaron Donald. Yes. Okay, we do the NFL network has the great Jenga piece device, and I kind of like that. you're saying McVeigh is the key to all of this.

Yeah, I think it's McVeigh. That pains me to say because you know how much I love Aaron Donald. I think he's the best player in football, full stop, independent of position. But I just, you keep McVeigh. That's where I sit with this. All right, you want to move on? Yeah. I mean, all I want to say is that this is, we're going to look back on this and the Super Bowl,

and we're going to realize that this is the beginning of new normal. I mean, I just think one of the things, if you guys ever want to read two tremendous, tremendous books on how ideas spread, the first is called Blood Sweat and Chalk by Tim Layden. The other is the games at Change of Games, Brian Tourski. And what you learn there is that ideas always seemed weird until they didn't. You know, I mean, everyone was talking about the game that was most points of all time, which is 1966 was Redskins Giants.

But there was another Redskins game against the Bears where they lost 73 to nothing. And in that game, basically the Bears it was the coming out party for the T formation. And the T formation seems like the most old school you know. The Bears used it last week. Yeah, but it seems like the most old school sort of normie

formation ever. And we have to remember that at one point that was considered completely out of left field. And that's sort of what's happening now. And in 10 years, 15 years, we're going to talk about this. And people are going to say, wait, those plays, and we're talking about McVeigh's plays and Reed's plays and all these guys. Wait, those plays

appeared out of nowhere one time. Yeah, they did. It's fun. It's a pivot moment for the entire league, and I know you and I are both having a blast watching it. All right, let's get to this week's Take Shop. Why don't you start us off? I'm not very happy about what's about to go down.

I just want you to talk about it. I'm just doing this. I know. You're just baiting me into it. I hate it. Take Shop, obviously, is our segment where we come up with a take that we maybe kind of believe in that we work with it. Having said that, I'm going to make you just talk about it as if you're the worst. You're going to, this is 100% your take and I'm sticking it on you.

The take is that the Bears can still win the NFC North with Chase Daniel playing the rest of their games. Oh, I didn't know this was the take. I thought you meant they could win on Thursday. Oh, no. Okay. Now I have to completely reset my mind here. There's no way that's true. The Vikings are good enough for that not to be true.

Okay. I'm not willing to believe that. Their schedule is such that they need to keep winning. And that's kind of even why Thursday is concerning to me. They lose it. They're only a game and a half up on the Vikings. And they play the Vikings again in week 17. Okay.

So let's say, let me ask you this question. Can they make the playoffs? I think even that's tough. Okay. Because Carolina's, I think Carolina and Seattle, maybe they can make the playoffs. Well, they already beat Seattle. Yeah.

So if they have a game lead over. Seattle. So they'd probably have to go 9 and 7 to get that second wild card. They would have to win two more games. They could go two and four. They absolutely could. Yeah, they could because they could beat the Giants and the 49ers, but Chase Daniels was the quarterback. But here's the thing, dude, the Vikings are 5-4 and 1. The Vikings have had a lot of chances to make me think that they're really good. They were my NFC Super Bowl pick coming into it. I really like the Vikings as a roster. I like their coaching staff. I like certainly like their quarterback, all this stuff. Are the Vikings winning 11 games?

I don't think the Vikings are winning 11 games but I don't think the Bears can win 10 games with Chase Daniel with Chase Daniel. You don't think they could go three and three

with Chase Daniel with the best with the best defense with the best defensive football skill guys good coaching staff you don't think they could scheme that up there.

I think I don't think I don't think I want to be clear about this I want to be clear about this take first of all it's not even my take but it's yours

Robert but I also don't think Chase Daniel is good I just think that you can play 500 ball with a replacement level quarterback when you have all of that talent around you. So you'd say they have to go three and three, right? So the swing game in that scenario

is probably Thursday. Because I think they probably lose to the Packers with Chase Daniel. They lose on the road at Minnesota and they lose to the Rams. So they'd have to win Thursday's game. Against the lions who were just giant killers. They beat the Patriots, they beat the Panthers.

They're not. a good team. My concern here. So they beat the Giants and the Niners. That's two wins. Yes. So then they have one, they have four chances to win one game.

But those other three games are tough. On the road at Minnesota, I think they just lose flat out. Because they will not, Minnesota's run defense is good. I don't think they'll be able to run the ball. I think they have to run the ball with Daniel in order to have any chance at points. Green Bay,

I just don't think they'd be able to beat the Packers with Chase Daniel. I really don't. The Lions, two weeks ago, three weeks ago, before they got Harrison, I would have said absolutely, because I would have run the ball 40 times and just dared them to stop me. Now that their run defense has gotten much better since his arrival, I have more doubts,

but I do think they'll be able to get after Stafford. So I don't know. I'd like to believe that they can, but I just don't want to live in that world, even in my mind, so I'm just blocking it out. I make a lot of Mitch Trubitsky jokes, but I actually think Mitchell Trubisky is not bad,

and they need him in order to be a, competent team or not like an actual playoff team. I mean, this is a backdoor Mitch Trubisky is bad take. Yeah, I'm aware of that, but you're wrong about that when it comes to the Bears of the same with Chase Daniels there with Mitchell Trubisky. Okay, because a huge part of the Bears' offense

is one, Trubisky keeping stuff alive with his legs, and two, Trubisky willing to pull the trigger on throws downfield. He has the highest percentage of 20 plus yard attempts in the NFL this season, and that really does open up a lot of stuff underneath. I know

their efficiency on those throws isn't great, but the fact that he's willing to make them allows the rest of their offense to function, those throws will not exist with Chase Daniel under center. So I just feel like there's so many pieces of who they are offensively that can't operate if Mitchell Tribisky is not the quarterback. Okay. Get to your take so I can get mad. I'm very curious. I'm excited to see how you're going to respond to this.

I just don't like this take. Go ahead. My take shop is that... In the same way, you did not like my take, I don't like your take. And this is why it's a take shop, because I think there might be exceptions, but as I watch the Eagles this season, I'm not sure it's possible for a team to repeat as the Super Bowl champions.

And I guess if I'm putting something in parentheses after that, if you're not the Patriots. Yeah, so obviously the Patriots came within one score of doing just that last year. Yes. There are teams that are built to compete every single year. The Seattle Seahawks probably with a couple of breaks could have repeat at some point.

I think the Eagles, you look at the sort of lightning in a bottle there, winning with the backup quarterback, their quarterback coming in, you know, obviously rehabilitating from an ACL, having a weird start to the year. I think that you look at the injury luck,

which is just, you know, obviously it was bad last year, but they don't, I mean, it was real bad last year, but they also don't have a functioning secondary at this point. So I think that though it was just sort of a normal regression this year. I don't think you can look at the Eagles

and say anything about how teams can be built for the CBA. because it's just a stinker of a year for them. I think that in the CB, I think the lesson of the post-2012 CBA is to operate like the Patriots, which is just you have to cut corners, you cannot build a super team, you have to get by,

and once you do that, the Seahawks are a perfect example. You have ruthless salary cap management. You have a handful of stars. You have a lot of B-plus players, and you're built to compete every single year. I think absolutely a team that could repeat for Super Bowl. I just don't think we've seen it yet,

just in many cases due to bad luck. But I think that luck is a part of it. I think you have to get so lucky to win one that the idea of having that perfect set of circumstances again, I know the Eagles circumstances weren't perfect, but on defense, no one got hurt for Philly last year that was a real big-time contributor. They had that entire unit intact, more or less.

I mean, you had Jordan Hicks, but inside linebackers, man. I mean, they didn't have any of their past wrestlers hurt, their corners were there, their safeties were there, all three corners were there the whole time. Now you have the exact opposite of that going on. I know you had some big injuries, but it wasn't as if they got decimated in the way they are now. And I just think the windows are so small, the emotional toll of it. And then you know what the other thing is with the Eagles? And this isn't even about roster construction. It's about brain drain. Yeah. And that is a real thing.

To have two of your offense assistance. But I mean, Andy Reid has brain drain and he doesn't win the Super Bowl. Yeah. Yeah. Here, here, let's go through this for a second. So the Patriots 1 and 17 got within a score of winning in 18, okay? Broncos won in 16 with a dead quarterback. They got beat up last year. The Eagles beat them up in the Super Bowl. It may be one score, but they, Eagles were clearly the better team.

I know, but it's not like they got the crap. I mean, they did have the ball and they had a drive to win the game or to tie the game. And it's not like they lost by three scores. Broncos won the year before and then their quarterback retired. Patriots obviously again. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What? That cannot be the reason that the Broncos did not win the Super Bowl the next year.

Well, no. They lost Malik Jackson. I mean, they lost all those guys. That is the reason. That is the reason they didn't win it. No, they had to restart with who was with Trevor Simeon next year. I honestly think that losing Malik Jackson is more indicative of why teams don't win the Super Bowl than Peyton Manning retired. No, no, no.

I understand that because we've gone over this about, you know, how you can reverse engineer Super Bowl champions, all those rookie contracts, whatever. But when you go, I know Peyton Manning was a. corpse, but I'd rather have the corpse of Peyton Manning than Trevor Simian, who started Absolutely, but I don't think that's the biggest reason. Okay, I do. Losing talent. I think Peyton Manning was more, is more important than, I understand. I love

Malik Jackson. I think he's a great player. But the Broncos didn't win the Super Bowl because of Peyton Manning. I don't know. Would they have, I don't think they would have won a Brock Osweiler. I think there was some weird. The Broncos won the Super Bowl because of their, because of their defense. No, I understand that. I understand that. But I think if you have their defense plus

Brock Osweiler or Trevor Simeon, I think that Peyton Manning had some weird sort of, I don't even know what you would call it. But if Peyton Manning had been there the next season, they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl. Yeah, because he happened to be 150 years old. It's just sort of the end of life cycle. Even if Peyton Manning, the exact version of him, had come back the next season. And everyone that was still on the roster had stayed healthy, they still wouldn't have won the Super Bowl. Because you lose guys like Malik Jackson.

That's so indicative of why teams aren't as good the following year. With the Eagles, it's a guy like Patrick Robinson. You just lose these tiny pieces because you can't maintain that roster. And outside of New England, I think it's so difficult to maintain that level of success when you lose those supplementary players. Okay, okay. But I think what you have to do is do what the Seahawks did, which is collect these guys to where you're not losing them immediately. I mean, look at how many consecutive drafts Seahawks hit in to the point they were able to have those cost-control.

old guys. You know who comes to mind right now? And unfortunately, it's not going to happen because of the age of their quarterback. Look at how many recent drafts the New Orleans Saints have hit on. Okay. They're the type of team where if their quarterback was instead of, you know, being a 40 year old quarterback was a 35 year old quarterback, they would win two straight because they're going to have some incredible contracts in the next couple of years. And they're not immediately going to lose them because they hit on some really, really good draft picks the last couple of years. And so that's a good example, but unfortunately, Brees, because of his age, probably doesn't have two Super Bowls left him. However, we said that about John Elway and who the hell knows. The Raven, by the way, so the Seahawks

won their one playaway from winning the next year. Before that, the first real post-CBA team to win the Super Bowl was the Baltimore Ravens, and they don't count because that game never happened. So the Saints are a good example, right? I think that their offensive line health for the most part this season has been a huge part of their success because they've been able to keep. Bree is completely clean. They haven't turned the ball over as a result. And that's why they're able to kind of be this machine. Terranne Armstead is out for a while.

Are they going to take a slight step back? Do we see a little bit more of just a, I don't know, that they're human, that they can make mistakes when they're not totally healthy and ready to go offensively. That's the type of stuff I'm talking about. If you lose your right tackle, which you haven't done, do we see that show up? I just feel like it's so difficult and the needle is so difficult to throw. to be the best team in the NFL and win the Super Bowl, that doing it year after year is really, really hard.

That's all I'm saying. Toronto Armstead, not healthy. No, he's hurt. No, no, I understand that, but I'm saying historically he's had, I mean. Yeah, he's been dinged up. And with Breeze, he mitigates the offensive line a lot, especially a tackle, things like that.

But if, say, I mean, I don't want to do this. Last three years, nine games, 10 games, seven games. He's been hurt a lot. But, all right, so let's not Toronto Armstead then even. I know Andrews Pete's been hurt a little bit this year. Oh, no. No, yeah. Let's say you lose Max Unger for half the year. Yeah.

Is the Saints defense or offense is good? And I don't know. But stuff like that happens. It hasn't happened this year, but could it happen next year? These are just kind of... Yeah, but that's not about the CBA. It's just about the CBA to me. It's just about the nature of injury luck and how good you have to be and how complete you have

to be for your window to be open. Dude, the Saints are crushing the draft. Yeah, they've been really good. Jeff Ireland is just back. they had a kind of a stinker. I need you to pull that as a sound bite, Craig. 2015, it was kind of a crappy. I mean, like, kick a ha and all those guys.

I loved him coming out. He just can't say healthy. His knees are terrible. I totally agree. But then the next year, Rankins, Michael Thomas. You love Rankins. Rankins is fine. He's fine, but I mean, he's not bad.

Then Latimore, the next year, Alvin Kamara. Latimore, Ramshack and Kamara. Yeah, dude. And then this year, Marcus Davenport and Trequan Smith. God, Trey Kwan Smith. Did you know, I can't even remember his name, Keith Kirkwood? Yeah. Keith Kirkwood was a real thing before this Sunday?

I didn't. I didn't. If I, all right. Oh, man, I wanted to do this the other day and I forgot. Let's, we'll play this game later. No, we'll play it. We'll play it later. We'll just do, this person.

Is he real? We'll do last 10 years. We'll do last 10 years and we'll do, you know, the, the tight end last year, last week with, with it Rogers threw a 52-yard touchdown pass, too, was kind of similar. It's great. Just I didn't know. It was the kind of player I didn't know existed until the ball was in the air and it was clear he was going to make a 50-yard touchdown. All right.

Before we move on, let's take a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Miller Light. Look, here on the Ringer, we have our disagreements, as you just heard. But there shouldn't be any debate about this. Miller Light is the great tasting light beer. It's only 96 calories and 3.2 grams of carbs. That's fewer calories and half the carbs of Bud Light. So there's really nothing more to talk about.

If you have a real argument, let me hear it. Until then, stick with Miller Light. Miller Light, hold true. All right, let's get to the three biggest games of the week. Let's get to those Green Bay Packers going to the Minnesota Vikings on Sunday night. What are you looking for? I'm looking for, I mean, both of these teams have not played as well as we thought this year. And yet, due to the nature of the NFC and due to the nature of the NFL, there's essentially

two NFL's right now. There's the going to win the Super Bowl wing of the NFL. There's a bunch of teams who have four, five or six wins who I have no idea who's good. Have you seen the AFC lately? Yes, I have. That's a crazy nightmare. And the NFC is not much better, okay?

It's interesting to me just the areas that, because both of these teams, you know, we play the game every single year. Who can win the Super Bowl? Well, I'm talking about in July and August. And if you have a great quarterback with the Packers, you're automatically in.

And certainly, have a great roster plus a good quarterback like the Minnesota Vikings are certainly in. Both of these teams, if everything breaks right, could have been in that wing of elite teams. I'm not saying that I'm talking about everything. I'm talking about all their draft picks it, that kind of thing, okay? And or they just get, you know, superhuman performances from all the guys they were depending on, okay? That just hasn't happened this year. Now, Ben Gosling tweeted this out and I thought it was pretty fascinating.

Mike Zimmer with the Vikings, his ranking in turnovers, okay? sixth in 2014, then fourth, seventh, third, and 2017, this year, 25th. Yeah. I, so I think a couple things about that. One, turnovers do tend to regress, but I do think great defenses get turnovers for the most part. I know it goes back and forth a little bit, and I know it vacillates. I feel like their defense is coming on a little bit, and people are just going to make Shribisky jokes from last week.

I think their defense over the last three or four weeks has actually been very good. And I know that the Saints scored 30, but the Saints scored a defensive touchdown. You know, Vikings had a turnover down in the red zone. Their defense is playing pretty well, in my opinion. And I think that, and that's why I feel like

that's going to come back a little bit. Are they going to be in the top 10 by the end of the season? Probably not. But I do think we're going to see a couple more two, three turnover games from Minnesota down the stretch here. I'm sitting Indian style right now on a couch. And I cannot move my legs

because I'm worried about the noise I will make due to how uncomfortable it will be. So I'm just doubling down on this problem of my legs. Adaboy. How are you, is your mic in front of you? It explains me your apparatus here. Why would I? I hold my microphone.

You hold your microphone when you're doing the show. Yeah. Oh, that's so weird. I don't have like a Stephen Tyler mic stand, if that's what you're asking. Mine is not a Stephen Tyler mic stand. It's this thing costs 20 bucks. I know what it is. They gave me one.

I'm not going to put it in. What am I supposed to do? Sit at a desk? That's what I'm doing right now. Is that so weird? Yeah, a little bit. I sit on a couch. Just yaking football.

So just in terms of matchups in this game, this is the type of game where losing Mike Daniels matters because you can absolutely sabotage and torpedo the Vikings' offense with interior pass rush because that's the weakest part of who they are. And I feel like the Vikings are going to be able to throw the ball a little bit on Green Bay

as a result of the pocket-not-call collapsing instantly on every single play. Yeah, I mean, it'll be fascinating. I wonder this, though. There's so much heat on Mike McCarthy. Do you think there's the possibility they make an in-season change if they lose, like, two in-row? No. I feel like there's no way he gets fired no matter what happens.

In-season? Yes. I'm fascinated to see it. I truly am. I think it's one of the most interesting second-half storylines. That would be such a departure for them just as a franchise. Well, they haven't fired any. I mean, they haven't fired,

it took them years to move on from Dom Capers. They're such a stable organization. I totally get it. I agree with you. I'm just throwing out different storylines. It could be possible. That would be so weird if they did that. I just can't see it happening.

All right, let's get to our next game. Seahawks going to the Panthers. This is a massive game, man. I mean, this is absolutely determined the number of the sixth seed in the NFC. So there are two teams. they're basically, I'm not going to call them play-in games, but there are two kind of non-divisional matchups this week that will go a long way and determining the six-seat.

One is Dolphins Colts, which is a game that's happening, and then Seahawks Panthers. I love that. I'm much more interested in Seahawks Panthers. Is that okay? Well, I think, but because we think that both of these teams are much, much better than the Dolphins and Colts. Yes. absolutely we do

I'm right there with you I mean so a couple things these quarterbacks are fourth and fifth in the NFL respectively in passerating with a clean pocket you know it's interesting to me the pressure rates on Russell Wilson did you see that probably for the first time in his career

he's not going to be top three most pressured quarterback Russell Wilson Russell Wilson he's back yeah I know he's back baby their offensive line and what they've been able to do is incredible I can't wait for I can't wait for 2022 when Deshawn Watson has his first season where he's not the most pressured quarterback in the NFL like Russell Wilson. It's great. I'm really looking forward to it. I'm not sure that's ever going to happen for him, but it will never happen for him.

Yeah, no, I'm fascinated by both these teams because I also think that both of these teams have, and this is one of those things. This is kind of a you are what your record says you are, so I shouldn't say this, especially after just the very, very, very strong. strange Lions game this week. But both of these teams, and I'd put the Colts in this category too, have the capability to put together a very scary six weeks and be the team nobody wants to play in the first round.

Both of these teams? Both the Seahawks and the Panthers, yes. I 100% agree with you. I've been really impressed with the Seahawks ability to maintain some just quality play on defense considering everything they've lost. And then the other side of it is I just didn't think their offensive line could ever play like this.

I really didn't. I mean, they've been able to keep Russell Wilson alive and afloat and they've been able to run the ball. That's been the other thing that I feel like has defined their season is that they've really been able to establish the run. I mean, they were one of the worst rushing teams in the league again last season, and now they're able to lean on that, use play action, which Russell Wilson is incredible at. And I think against this Panthers defense, against this Panthers secondary, James Bradbury didn't practice yesterday or today. I think that they're going to be able to put up some points. I really do. Yep, totally agree. Who do you like?

I like Carolina just because I think Carolina is a better team. I love what our offense has been. I know it's been a little bit of a blip, but I do believe in the talent there. You watch that game against the Lions last week. A couple third down sacks that ended some drives early. You know, Cam has a high throw that gets intercepted. But the way that DJ Moore is playing right now, Cam, Cam's overthrows. Cam's overthrows.

Still a problem. Yeah. He does get a little. He leads among really good quarterbacks. And Cam Newton is a really, really good. quarterback. I don't know anyone who has more just frustrating where the hell did that come from throws. He puts a lot of juice on that ball is one of the reasons. And sometimes it gets just a little bit, it jumps a tiny bit more than you wanted to. Did you see DJ Moore's like 82

yard reception? Yeah. He jumped over a dude, grabbed it, kept his balance, and then that play he made in the end zone and the play that Curtis Samuel made in the end zone. Draft crush. He was a draft crush in mine. Big time. DJ Moore? Big time spark guy. Oh, I liked him. I just didn't think he'd be this type of receiver. You know, he had that game a couple weeks ago. That was kind of his coming out game where they threw him some screens. He had the reverse, or excuse him, Samuel had the reverse. But they threw more a couple screens, really getting the ball in his hands and letting him do work in the short areas of the field and in space.

That's kind of what I thought he be. Watching him make contested plays and being a bigger kind of in traffic target than Devin Funches is not what I expected. It's been cool. I'm really excited to see him. with Cam. I think that this Panthers offense can get back on track. I also think that Seattle's pass rush as a whole is not enough

to take advantage of what is in a lot of spots a pretty questionable pass blocking offensive line. We'll see if Frank Clark can get some work done, but I don't really trust the rest of those Seattle pass rushers to have much of an impact. Agree. All right. Are we really doing this third game? Yes, we have to.

Because I think this third game in a lot of ways is like the Seahawks Panthers game. The implications of it are No, the other, the real AFC play in game is the Colts and the Dolphins. I'm not talking about the Dolphins. We've talked too much about the Colts recently. We're about to talk by the Dolphins about 10 minutes for another segment. You can't get it.

You can't get out of Dolphins talk that early. I can't avoid them. I'm in Miami and I still can't avoid dolphins talk. All right. Titans at Texans. This is a huge game, man. This one matters. Huge game.

Do you feel like the Texans are actually real? That's my question for you. Do you know that the Texans? are tied with the bears for fewest explosive plays given up. Their defense has a lot of really good players on it, dude. Yeah.

The way the Watt is playing right now, and I wanted to bring this up, he's J.J. Watt. He's really affecting games. And when you have him and Clowny, it's almost unfair. We haven't seen for extended periods of time this version of Jedevi and Clowny

and the real J.J. Watt, and we're getting to see it now, and it's awesome. Matthew has given them a little bit of a spark. Kareem Jackson's having the best season of his career. I mean, this defense has plenty of talent on it. So when you say, are they for real? I want to unpack that a second.

Because are they for real in the sense they could win 11 games and win the AFC South by two or three games? Sure, definitely. Why not? They can hold off the Colts and they can put away the Titans. That's fine. But are they for real in the sense that they can win a playoff game against one of these established elite teams? No, I don't think that. I don't think that either.

I think the offensive line is not good enough. I think the individual talent is there. I just don't think the offensive line and the coaching staff is where it needs to be. So are they for real in an AFC South sense? Absolutely. They're for real in the AFC? No. So their point differential right now is seventh among teams in the AFC.

Seventh. And they're seven and three. think about the amount of close games they've won this season. They beat the Colts by three, they beat the Broncos by two, and they beat the Redskins by two. It's not as if they're beating these teams up. I mean, they really crushed the dolphins

in that huge game that Watson had, but aside from that one game, they've sneaked by. They beat the Cowboys by three. I mean, this is a team that is really getting by the skin of their teeth, and I just don't know if it's sustainable. You know, Watson had that really nice, two-game stretch.

He didn't throw the ball enough against the Broncos, which is why they only scored 19 points. But he was pretty bad against Washington, which that happens when they play a team with a good defensive front. And that's why I'm a little bit concerned about Monday night. Because when Tennessee gets after the quarterback, they're fantastic. And I think that's becoming more of a theme, period.

You need to be able to pressure the quarterback to stop anyone in the way the league works right now. And when you're the Titans and you play a team like the Colts, who's protecting Andrew Luck better than pretty much any team in the league is protecting their quarterback, you're going to get run over. You're not going to be able to stop anybody because it's too easy to throw the ball. But when the Titans are playing a team like Houston who cannot protect their quarterback, I feel like that front floor can dominate a game.

And I think that might be what we see on Monday night as much as I'd like to see the Texans win. Yep, agree. Anything else you want to say about this game? Definitely not. All right. Let's get to May's Geeks Out and Kevin's Sneaky Truth. My geeks out this week is very homerific. And it's about Kalil-Mack.

And I think the- I actually think I gave the Bears Homer take earlier in the show. There you go. Mine's about Kalil-Mack. And the reason I want to talk about this, I wrote a little bit about it in the starting 11. And you watch a guy like Kalil-Mack, and everyone knows Kille-Mack is great.

I mean, he's an incredible player. He affects the game. Pretty much every play is in there. But why is he great? And there's that clip that was going around on Sunday night during the game. And the ringer Twitter account, it out. You can find it in my starting 11 or pretty much on Twitter anywhere. And it's the play where Khalil Mack is attacking Riley Reef coming off the right side.

And he just throws Riley Reef to the side with one hand. And everyone was like, oh, Khalil Mac only needs one hand. And I know that's an incredible feat of strength, but that one hand move is actually on purpose. So what makes Kalil Mac great is that on that play, Reef has to account for his speed. and he really jumps out there with a vertical pass set. And Mack comes back by putting his foot in the ground, sticking one hand in Reef's chest and just launching him. And that looks like it's just the incredible Hulk tossing a very tiny person.

In reality, it's a very thought-out pass rush move. Because what makes Kulomak semi-unstoppable is that he goes speed to power better than any other edge rusher in the NFL. He's able to, his timing on knowing when exactly to put his foot in the ground to go through someone is just ideal. When you watch that clip, Reef's right foot comes off the ground the moment that Mac puts his hand in his chest. That's not on accident.

He knows how to time out that move. And think about this. When you're standing, put two hands out and then put one hand out and lean forward. You can lean forward more with one hand out. By the way, I can do all of these things because I'm not sitting at a desk. You can lean forward much further with one hand than you can with. two hands out. So in Max, it's called the long arm, and that's Max's favorite move. So he's able to create separation while being powerful against the guy like Riley Reef.

And that's why he's so dang good. So look out for that stuff on Sunday. This game's national. I think a lot of people are going to be watching it. Just see how many times, rather than trying to get around the edge, he's just willing to try to go right through somebody because they have to account for his speed. I mean, two years ago, I went to Oakland to talk about pass rush moves with him and all the things that came with it. And it's unbelievable when you talk to a guy like Colomac because you realize how little everybody else knows in the past rush game about it. You know, when you talk to a truly, when you talk to a truly elite athlete like that, you realize how smart, truly lead athletes have to be. And every time I would ask him a question about anything,

we would watch the videos together and there was a purpose for everything. There was a purpose for everything. Why do you take this step? Well, I saw because Tyrod likes to do, you know, this move to his right, whatever it is. The purpose to everything. And I think that one of the things, if you're a listener, you know, you might think, well, everybody could see NFL would sort of have this all thought out. That's not true at all. That's not the case at all. There's a lot more see the ball, hit the ball type players than there are. I knew who's going to do this, this, and this. You know, it's, it's

it's, it's almost remarkable. When you talk to truly a great athlete and they can explain to you what they're doing, I love Colomac, and I'm glad we're talking about him. And then one other thing that you should watch for if you're checking out this game that I feel like is such a defining part of who he's been this season, check out

how many times he's lined up on the edge and just crashes inside to a double team and completely gives up his body and a stunt. One of the reasons they've been so good is how he affects the rest of the defense and a huge part of that is how selfless he is.

You don't see truly elite pass rushers that are edge guys that want sacks sacrifice themselves like that as much as he has this year. He's been more than willing to just say, I'm going to take two guys with me, loop around and make a play. And it's been so fun to watch. I mean, he's just such a perfect

defensive player and the fact that he's on my team. It's like when Peppers got signed there a couple years ago. I mean, eight years ago now, I watched him every play because it was always so fascinating. I feel the same way about Mac. There's just something to be taken from every snap. And, I mean, Sunday night was

amazing, but look for kind of the intricacies of why he's able to do this stuff. You know who did a bad job? John Gruden. John Gruden. Because the Bears this year and next year, it's not like the Bears are going to be a top 10, bottom 10 team next year.

like they're, they're going to get two mid-round picks. They're going to draft like a wide receiver or something. And that's going to be it. There's no, there's no chance for them to get a player in the same stratosphere as Colomac.

If the Bears are a playoff team next year, like let's just hypothetically say that. And they get the 26th pick in the draft. The Raiders are most likely going to be one of the worst five teams in the NFL next season. So the Raiders are going to have a pick at like, 35, 36. The Bears are

likely going to be a playoff team this year. So they're going to send the 26th pick to the race. It was more or less this year's 26th overall pick

for Kaleel Mac. It's amazing. It's so, so great. I don't think they're going to get the 26th pick. What do you mean? What do you think they're going to be? I don't know.

Let's say it's 24 or 23 even. It's more or less the 23rd pick in this draft for Khalil Mac if the bears are good next year and the Raiders are bad, which I think could happen. Yeah, it's definitely not a good trade. I love it so much. I've been looking into this John Gruden guy

and he's not doing a good job. Getting that number two pick back is just one of the best things that's ever happened. So here's my sneaky truth. I was going to ask you what it was. Armando Salgaro with Miami Herald in the town you are in Robert. You can pick up the Miami Herald or the Sun Sentinel at your local newsstand.

All those news. Sun Sentinel alone. all those newsstands all around Miami there, Sunsetinal alum, Kevin Clark, chiming in favor of all three South Florida papers because of the Palm Beach choice. In favor of print media period. It does a great job. Support your local paper. So they had a, Miami Herald had this column about the future of the quarterback position and Armando reported that the dolphins have begun the process of looking at first

round quarterbacks for next year. And that got me thinking, Robert, that we don't think of a team like the dolphins going out and maybe getting a top quarterback next year. When we looked, when we started talking about quarterbacks in July and August, we kept saying, oh, everybody seems set. I mean, even the Browns go out and get the first overall pick, but then they also bring in big money Tyrod because they want to be super set. They're double set. And obviously, you know, Tyrod was Tyraud, but that process didn't work out the way they thought. But, but the point is, we sat here and we said everyone's got their guy. And now you start to look at the 2019 draft, and it's not like the 2018 draft where there's

going to be five first round picks, but you're starting to look at the competition for who could need a first round quarterback. And you have to throw the dolphins in there. You have to throw a lot of these teams in there. Are the Broncos in there? They absolutely might be. Yeah. Before the season. Are the Raiders in there? Yes, we've talked about this a bunch. Okay. Let's keep going here. I would not say the Bengals, right? I wouldn't say it. I don't think they are either, but that's a team that's right on the edge. Yeah, I think that I think they can, I think they can win with Andy Donaldwood, but we've been through that before. Jaguars, if they can get a- 100% they are. Cheap

they are. Cheap quarterback, you do it. I got one. The Titans. I think they stick with Mario to another year because it's a new system. I agree. That's the reason. It's not like James where you have no reason to believe. It's just, yeah, it's just a contract thing. Just a contract thing. You know, maybe you think about it. All right. Uh, no one, hey, I have a question. Redskins. There's too, there's too much money involved. I understand. Well, I mean, but that's, maybe that's the point. You gave 71 million dollars to a guy who might not be able to play an extra. You just start thinking about it. That's all. Start thinking about it. God, that would be. What are you going to do otherwise? Yeah. That's honestly, spending a first round pick

on a quarterback is probably the cheapest way you're going to get one. That's what I'm talking about, dude. So I wrote about this today. Hold on, hold on, huh? Giants. 100%. Yeah, definitely. Like, no doubt.

And then the bucks are in there too. Yeah. And the bucks are the last team. That's correct. Unless something absolutely insane happens to another, to another quarterback. But yeah, the bucks are the last team. So I wrote about this today. And I wrote about how one of the other takeaways from Monday Night's game is that

we're going to see more teams because it's worked, trade up in the first round for quarterbacks. And that puts more teams in play to draft quarterbacks because you don't need a top five pick. And I used to be of the mind that you have to give up something. You have to sacrifice in some way with your roster if you trade up for a guy.

You're going to lose a first round pick the next year. There is a price to be paid. It's not just free. Even if you get a guy that hits, it's going to hurt you elsewhere. I'm starting to kind of back off that a little bit because his contract and what you save on that rookie deal, that's a resource.

Think about the Chiefs, right? They move on from Smith to Mahomes. This year, Mahomes is making three-ish million. Smith was going to make, what, 18 around there? You save $15 million in cap space. You can go get a guy like Sammy Watkins. I know he hasn't been a huge part of what they do, but he's made some plays for them.

think about what Jared Goff gives the Rams in financial flexibility. Even if you lose those picks, you miss them less because you have more financial wiggler room with that rookie quarterback contract. It's not just about what that guy is on the field for you. It's what he does for your overall financial picture as well. So that's why I'm sort of surprised that there's not more full-scale NFL tanking. It's hard to do, man. I understand it's hard to do with non-guaranteed contracts.

The coaching staffs don't want to get fired. I'm just saying I'm surprised no team. And maybe the Browns were doing that. The Browns absolutely were. Yeah. The Browns made it happen. No, but the Browns didn't take a quarterback until, I mean, they passed on Wenson golf.

I'm fine with it. I've discussed this before. Would you rather have Baker Mayfield than Denzel Ward or Deshawn Watson? Independent of any other infrastructure, whatever. Would you rather have... That's not the... Oh, you're talking about the trade. Yes.

Well, the Miles Garrett ear, they also could have just gotten Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson. Yes, but that's the trade. So, I mean, I'm okay with it. I feel like I'm cool with what they did. I have... They traded it down in 16.

So... And not 17. So I... Yeah, they traded down in 16, and then they traded their pick away... Yeah, no, I know. In 17. Right, right.

But no. They took Miles Garrett. And then they had a second, did they have a... Right, yeah. Yeah, they had the second pick. They had two first-off. They traded a pick that was Watson. Yes.

Yes. Okay. So I don't, I don't know the answer to that. I know that... I think it's close. I think it would have been great to have Patrick Mahomes on the Browns. But would Patrick Mahomes be Patrick Mahomes on the Browns? That's what I'm asking.

Last year's Browns, it'd been good. We've talked about this a million times. We talk about on the video that you should watch on the ringer.com about the greatest what ifs. If Mahomes or if Watson were in Jacksonville, it's completely different. One of the hallmarks of Mahomes this year, and I'm not saying, I'm certainly not saying that he would be Bordels-esque because he would be absolutely awesome on all 32 teams. But one of the hallmarks on. I'm out on that. Okay.

Hold on. So one of the hallmarks is that he leads the NFL in wide open throws. and without those wide open throws, he's a much different player. He's throwing guys open or whatever. I think we would be talking, having a very different conversation if Patrick Mahomes played for the Titans,

I don't know, but he would still look better than a lot of quarterbacks on the league. I don't think there's any situation in which he would look bad. No, I don't think so either, but I don't think he'd be Patrick Mahomes.

And we wouldn't be talking. I think there's four, there's probably four or five, places where he would have this much success. Yes, that's it. This year, this year. Sure, but that's it. That's a small list, man.

But I don't think, I think that he would look very good on the vast majority of team. I think Baker Mayfield is going to look really, I mean, Baker Mayfield in year two, which that's what Patrick Mahomes is in now. I know he didn't start last year. But mentally, he's in year two. I think Baker Mayfield in year two has a chance to be something in that realm, not maybe what Patrick Mahomes is right now, but a good quarterback. I agree.

I love Baker. And they should try to hire Lincoln Riley. Yes, the plan and what the Browns did, I still don't have a problem with it. And the other thing, the point I want to make before we kind of wrap this up here, is that, like, the Texans, so we're talking about their offensive line and how, well, they didn't have a first round pick or a second round pick because the Brock Oswaldler thing. That's a whole different conversation. Well, they didn't have a first round pick. If they would have, then maybe they get a left tackle. They had a ton of cap space, and they tried to get Nate Solder and didn't.

If they get Nate Solder, who I know hasn't had a great season, but he's better than what they have, we're not having this conversation. They have their left tackle. So I feel like, I don't know, I backed off it. I don't feel as strongly about while you're giving up those draft resources, is it the smartest thing to do? And maybe it's recency bias. But I just see so many teams with the right coaching hires, with the right choice of quarterback,

and with the right infrastructure that have been able to overcome that loss of draft picks. And I think more and more teams are going to try to do it. I really do. Hey, let's do real quick on this because I thought it was fascinating. I saw Greg Bedard tweet this out today. He was on the radio and they were doing a second. that is just fascinating to me ever since I saw it.

They did a segment, who is the next Patriot starting quarterback? A guy who's in college right now? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe. He said Marietta. I think the Belichick goes for a rookie. Okay.

He's too smart to not. Why would you want to pay Marcus Mariotta $17 million a year when you go get a guy making two? It depends what Mariotta's rate is when he reaches for agency. I mean, he's a, Mike Clennon made 18, San Bradford, made 20. What do you mean what his rate is? I don't. If you're a veteran starter, you make $18 to $20 million a year. Yeah, I guess.

I mean, I just think that there's, I think the reality of the quarterback position might change in two years. Maybe, but I would much rather have the guy making two, no matter how good he is or matter how unproven he is. I'd much rather have that guy. All right, buddy, very quickly, Redskins Cowboys, Falcon Saints. I mean, Falcon Saints is going to be fun as hell when you're digesting your turkey, enjoy all the points. The Saints are must watch television right now.

I don't feel that way about Redskins Cowboys, even though it's a massively important game. I just want to see what the Redskins look like. Yep, I'm looking for that as well. Let's see if the Cowboys can move the ball on that Redskins defense. They have a very good run defense. I think that we saw last week what Ezekiel Elliott means to Dallas's offense in general. But other than that, enjoy your Thanksgiving, folks.

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