The Ringer NFL Show - What the Giants Should Do With Odell Beckham Jr. and Who’s Gonna Give Johnny Manziel a Shot? | GM Street (Ep. 249)

Episode Date: March 28, 2018

The Ringer’s Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier discuss NFL rule changes for the upcoming season and details from the owners meeting (5:00) before strategizing about how the Giants should manage Odell Beckham Jr.’s contract situation (16:00). Later, they question which team is going to take a chance on polarizing QB Johnny Manziel (27:00), and unpack the Cowboys and Dez Bryant’s offseason relationship (32:00), the Dolphins' locker room culture (37:00), and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's episode of GM Street, we discuss the new rules that were put in at the owner's meeting and how they will affect the game, possible landing spots for your boy, OBJ, the Rams, with Sue, Johnny Football, Des, and a whole lot more on GM Street. And as always, we are brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can listen to myself and Mark Titus, talk college hoop on one shiny podcast. We've done, I believe, 30 podcasts in the last 15 days at this point. I am losing my mind, slowly but surely. At least you're not losing your voice.

That's true, that's true. And to be sure, go check out the ringer.com. We're getting caught up on all the NFL offseason as well and get prepped for the NFL draft. We will be talking about that on GM Street. Absolutely. Welcome to GM Street, part of the Ringer podcast network. It is Wednesday. It is the end of March.

April is coming. And I am joined by Mr. Mike Lombardi. Lombardi, how you doing? I'm good, Tafrasia. I'm not as busy as you, but I'm good. I mean, you're all over. I mean, you're like, you know, this NC2A stuff. I'm loving you and Titus over there.

It's kind of good. It's fun. It's been a great. tournament. I mean, I've enjoyed, I thought the Duke, Kansas game was one of the best best games I've ever seen. It was really fun. I wasn't sure who was ever going to win that game. I know I was rooting, you know, I know where you were going in that game. Not for Duke, of course. Obviously, I know that. And now you're headed to the final. Is this your first Final Four ever? No, no, no, no. My first Final Four ever. But as a professional. You're right. Okay.

I went last year to the Final Four. And I did. Yeah, but I went on my own dime and just flew down there Because that's right. I remember that because, yeah, you wanted to see North Carolina. Yeah, you want to see North Carolina. And I got the win. So I was happy about that. But yeah, this is my first time as like a journalist. And now I'm a town. We're doing this three on three show, myself and Mark Titus. That's what I hear. And you're going to get all dressed up in tux and perform. I mean, you're like, you really are like Prop Joe now.

Yeah, first impressions. Well, you know, if you want to hack the part, be the part, MF, you know, you got to do it. You ever see that scene? You know, it's funny. East side, west side, prop. It's the first time you see Prop Joe in the wire. And he delivers one of the great lines of all time and says that, you know,

and Avon comes over to him and says, you know, you'd be dressed it all like Pat Riley and shit and hey, be the part, act the part. And he was. And so Prop Joe won that game too, by the way. Prop Joe was a good scout. He had a ringer in the game. That's right.

You got to look good, play good. And he also be a good scout. Yeah, exactly. And know that you have the right talent on the court and the field, as always, as we do on GM Street. We have a lot to talk about. Well, before we go.

Who do you, give me your predictions here? I mean, I need to know for GM Street. Like, where are you going? I've made this joke all tournament that the Wildcats are going to be the winners, you know, because we had so many wildcats. In one region, we had 15 teams that were the wildcats. Villanova, I think, is still the best team in the tournament. Yeah. I could totally see them winning this thing.

But like I said, the last time that Kansas was the underdog was 08, it was in San Antonio. You had North Carolina who had player of the year with Tyler Hansborough. You had Memphis with Derek Rose. It was all lining for Kansas not to win. They were kind of the least like team going in the final four, sort of under the radar. Bill Self has that again. And so I'm talking myself into Kansas every day. You know, but watching Villanova, you know, and Jay Wright lives in Ocean City in the summertime.

He's, you know, and not that I know him, but I mean, you know, there's a lot of Villanova people that live in the area. To me, they just look like they are the most complete team in terms of they get punched in the mouth and they come right back at you. I mean, I thought West Virginia had them. And next thing you know, they blow West Virginia out. I think it's going to be, you better have incredible mental toughness and physical toughness to beat them. And I don't buy this thing. whoever wins the, you know, that game won't be strong enough to play the next bracket. I think these two teams, Kansas and Villanova, look resilient to me.

Absolutely. And a lot of people were comparing it to 2015 where it's going to be the de facto national title game when, you know, we saw Wisconsin knock out the undefeated Kentucky. And people were saying that's going to be a similar thing when Kansas or Villanova, whoever wins that game. But I'd watch out for Michigan. And I'm not going to doubt Loyola anymore. I'm not going to doubt Sister DeN anymore.

I think everybody there in San Antonio's ready for. Not that I'm a basketball expert, but you have to start, at some point you have to stop calling somebody at Cinderella. It's like keep calling Tom Brady a six-round pick. At some point, you've got to stop calling them. They won 30 games. Yeah, and they're on this incredible streak. They haven't lost it half-time since God knows when. They seem to match up and they play well. And, you know, you can't call them Cinderella anymore. And I agree. I think the thing they can't do, which I think Kentucky did is take the cheese in terms of if Villanova wins or Kansas wins, oh, we got it made. No, that just becomes even harder. So, but let's talk football. Tape

Frazier. Yeah, stop underestimating people. That's the last lesson. Cinderella's done. I mean, Loyola ain't Cinderella. But I would encourage the St. Augustine School of Villanova, they better bring a bishop. I told Musselman to bring an archbishop, he didn't listen to me. Well, the father's already talking out against Sister Gene, you know, for Villanova. It's already happening. It's already becoming a war. And then

Jalen Rose's grandma came on. I saw that. That's so good. She's 100 years old and called out Sister Gene. Don't mess with the Jesuits now. That's right. Don't mess with that. They're all coming out. And everyone's starting new beefs and rivalries. It's great for the sport. Speaking of a sport that needs some new things, that's the NFL. We've got a lot of new rules. They're very excited

to announce that the catch rule, it has changed. You no longer have to maintain possession, which was the little wrinkle in the rule that everyone had to focus on. And that was what gave us Dez. That's what gave us Calvin Johnson. That's what gave us all these many moments that we remember over the years.

Jesse James. Jesse James, especially, of course, against the Patriots. So that is now taken out. Now it is saying that you have to make a football move. That is the term. And that's also a little bit of a gray area, but we'll see what happens. I thought on the video that the NFL distributed online,

I thought it really explained it. And I think they basically, what they did to the rule was they used Mike Holmgren's logic, that if 10 guys in a bar think it's a catch, then it's a catch. And I think that that's what they did. They said, that's a catch. And I think that it looks cleaner to me. I don't see, I heard Dean Blandino talking about the former head of officiating. I heard him talk about how it may slow down officials from making a call.

I don't see that. I really don't. I think, you know, it's really not that hard. A guy has possession. He takes a football movement. And all of a sudden now, I think we're going to see more fun. now. I do. I think we're going to see the ball come out or we're going to see guys try to extend the ball. Maybe it come out. But I think it's the best thing they did at the

owner's meeting. I think it was really a good thing. And I actually like what they did with the rule. And I don't think it's going to slow down the game at all. Do you think there's going to be a weird interpretation of the rule? Because that's what sort of happened with the pass rule where, you know, it's maintaining control. So there was these, well, if the ball moves a little bit, he didn't maintain control. And now it's a football move. So let's say someone tries to jump over somebody with the ball. That's a football move. It's considered a football move, right? It's basically, it's like when you were a kid playing in your backyard, you caught the ball, you moved. You caught it.

Like, you know, we simplified the game to the purest form to when we play in the backyard. That's the best way to do it. And so for me, this rule actually applies to when the Frazier family plays on Thanksgiving Day back in North Carolina, it applies to that. It applies to the NFL games. I think it's the right thing to do. It clears it up. This whole going to the ground and maintaining possession, like that never, that didn't happen on any Thanksgiving game. somebody's backyard. I didn't understand the logic. The Calvin Johnson thing, when he had the ball

in his hand in that big huge hand. That was in 2010. That big huge hand of his and he had the ball like he, and then he just wanted to spike it. I mean, come on. That, you know, that's ridiculous. So I like it. I think it was really a positive step. Yeah. And another thing that they did, probably the bigger story coming out of this is besides the catch roll, I think the catch roll was just something that need to be done. And we saw on the Super Bowl, those two Eagles touchdowns that were, you know, if we were going by maintain possession, you could go down and maybe see a little difference there. But They basically decided it catches a catch in that game, and we're moving forward from there. But the next thing is the flagrant non-football act.

It came out the-the-hout, the helmet. Yeah, the helmet and that. This one to me is going to be the worst offici-this. This is going to be the hardest thing to do. We see it in college every Saturday. Guys get thrown out of the game. Like, I don't understand, like, where do they want the kids to put their heads? Like, I don't know how you could-

Lower extremities, right? So we're going to see more problems down. In a game where football is so fast. I mean, these rules that were put in place, okay, think about this. The guy that broke the, I think in the 68 Olympics, he won the 100 meters. I think it was Jimmy Hein, Johnny Hein, something like that. He won, he would be nine yards behind Hussein Bolt right now. Okay, so that tells you the level of speed that's increased in track and field, right?

Well, the level of speed from the time Ray Nitchki played middle linebacker for the Green Bay Packers to. Or Blanda or anything, though, is so much different. And the collisions are so more violent that I don't know how, and they happen so fast, like I don't know how they expect these kids to get their heads out there. Everybody teaches you not to see what you hit. And nobody wants to butt a guy head to head. I just think this is going to cause some problems. And if they start suspending guys for this like they do in college where guys to miss a whole game,

I think this is going to be a really tough area. And it's in-game ejections. That's the new thing where they're going to go outside and decide if, you know, the officials on the field aren't going to be, it's not on them. to decide if they're going to inject someone. They brought up the Grancowski thing against the bills last year, the Mike Evans situation. Mike Evans, I mean, there's, like, to me,

like there's times where common sense should play into effect. Same with the catch rule. And now we're playing with, we're not going to lean on common sense in this situation, but with the catch rule we now are. So we're going in different directions. They're trying to disguise it as player safety, but I don't think it's going to make the game. Look, I do think this.

I think the way, like, if I were the Jets and I drafted this Adams of the first round, the six-pick overall, his whole game is to have collisions and be physical. I think basically that position doesn't exist anymore. I think we're moving towards four corners in the back end very clearly. The Earl Thomases are the players that have to matter unless you're like Seattle where Camp Chancellor can play in the box. But to me, the way the game is set up, if you want to play cover two, if you want to be a too high team, you better have four safeties because you get no benefit from having a power player back there. You get no benefit from defending the middle of the field. Like an Ed Reed type.

Like exactly. And so Ed Reed's range, he makes plays all over. You need four corners back there, and you're going to have to give a little bit up in tackling, but that's going to help your range. I see it's like, to me, it's an overkill. If you're going to put a safety back there, that's all he's doing is being an enforcer. You can't enforce. And we just saw a couple players come out and say that they don't really know what this rule will do to them.

Josh Norman came out. I was like, I don't even know what this means. This isn't written for football. This is written for a boardroom. It's written by guys that never played. I mean, I know the competition committee has coaches on. it and all that. And I know that they've had a huge effect on it, but the implication of the rule is harder. I mean, there's things in reality that makes sense, in theory it makes sense, but in

reality, they're hard to execute. I think this is only going to cause delay in the game, and it's going to cause fans, especially if you lose one of your better players for what he didn't really do. I think it's going to be hard. And it also makes the NFL even more of a target for the fan, if they are stepping into a game and saying so-and-so is now going to be ejected from the game coming from an outside source. I mean, fans are going to lose their minds. Of course, the first time the opponent of the Patriots, the guy, the best part. Say you the Rams, a keep to leave has a big hit across the middle, and they call into the Rams in a big game in the NFC, and they pull them out of the game. I mean, people are going to go

crazy. Crazy. I mean, to me, and then, you know, like, look, I just think to me they're over-officiating the game. I think player safety is really important, but I think this area is hard to officiate. But how do you even implement this rule? Like, do you go, how do you go to a team facility and say, hey, here's a new rule, here's what you guys need to be looking out for. You know, does that come down from the NFL? Do they have a demonstration or something like that? When you walk out of a locker room, every pro locker room

when you walk out of it, there's a huge sign on it, see what you hit. And it tells you about what you have to do in terms of form tackling. And so it's been coached. It's been technique-wise. They're going to, you know, what'll happen in May is all the teams will meet with the officials.

They'll go over all the league rule changes. They'll talk to the players. They'll talk to the teams. They'll have a video to show them everything they're going to do. but those videos and when you show them what to do doesn't simulate the speed of the game and the reaction of the game. It's hard when you've played football for as long as these guys

have played football. Instinctively, it takes over. You just can't help yourself. You take it right over and go. I think it's going to be a really hard rule to do. I really do. I think we're going to be sitting here in the studio in October bitching about it and I think it's going to keep being bitched about. And just talking about the owner's meeting in general, just a little

inside baseball talk for what's going on there. I mean, all these coaches fly in. Belichick's not there, right? I saw the phone There were two coaches I think were missing in the photo, weren't there? I count a 29. Maybe I didn't count right. I know he wasn't. Belichick apparently hasn't been to the photo since 2015, something like that.

Yeah, no. So is that a power play by him? Just not to show up for the picture? I think the reality of the owners meetings were they were good back in the day before we had all this communication. It's kind of a convention. But the owners meetings, because of the stuff that happens that are serious business stuff, the coaches don't get involved.

It's really, you have all these auxiliary meetings, and then owners have one per club meeting. So it's really more for the business of football and then the practical end of football, really is just one day. And they bring the coaches in and explain to them the rules and they discuss the things that they have to discuss. It really is, it's fascinating, Tate for Asia, that it's a league where you are competing against everyone else for the ultimate title. And when you go to this, you see all these people shaking hands and being nice to everybody. And it's just all phony, phony, phony, like, you know, it's like. Yeah, everyone here isn't a competition constantly.

competing against the thing. It would be like all the networks having a meeting and all going to discuss how we're going to. Like, no, that wouldn't happen. Like they are, you know, league meetings and business meetings. Yeah, no problem. Do that. But to me, there's certain pockets. You know, Andy Reid has a bunch of coaches that he's there with, you know, with the Hawaiian shirt on. With the Hawaiian shirt. And Bill has, you know, now has Patricia. So there's a bunch of people that are closed. The Grutons, I'm sure, hung out. But the reality of it is, is you're sitting there guarding everything you're saying. You're worried about what you're going to do. Agents are all walking around trying to sell the players that they have trying to get last minute deals, you know? Yeah. So it really ends up wasting time, especially when you are as involved in the draft as some of those coaches that are in that room are. They need to be on the road. They need to be scouting. I mean, I saw today Alabama's having another pro day. Jason, the Clapper's going up to see it there. He left the meeting a little. Texas A&M just had their pro day. Yeah. So, I mean, you're in them busy on football, and so it's hard. I think there was a time that it was really, but where all the stuff matters is basically in about a two-hour meeting when they vote on the competition can be. That's really the only time you need to be in there.

Yep. One other thing that did not get brought up this time around, and some people wanted to be done, especially the New York Jets, I think they had thrown us out there about the past interference rule trying to get it. So it's just a 15-yard penalty, and it's not spot of the foul. Joe Flacco hired a lobbyist group to make sure that he killed this rule, because this really keeps him alive. Yeah, this is Joe Flacco. So he hired Frank Luntz, you know Frank Luntz, the guy. He hired a bunch of lobbyist. He probably got some of the people that work for the NRA. Are you serious? No, I'm kidding.

I love it. I believe that. That would make a lot of sense. That's bad business for Joe Flacko. Look, I think to me, past interference is you've got to coach it. Look, I have no problem with the rules the way they are. You've got to coach it. Like, you're playing Eli Manning. Okay, I don't give a crap what the Giants say and what Dave Gettelman says about how great Eli Manning is and he watched the tape. Eli Manning's ball dies at 45 yards. When you play Eli Manning, if you don't coach your corners to play the underthrow on the deep ball, that's on you. That isn't on them. That's not on the officials. You have to turn. You have to teach your corners to turn to look for the ball because he's not going to overthrow it. He ain't overthrowing it, okay? He's going to underthrow it if he does anything.

That's what you're dealing with. And so when you're playing different quarterbacks, you've got to know this. And so you have to prepare for it. I mean, you know, you just do. And so, like, I know every game. I've been where one game where, you know, Belichick, we had Justin Coleman was a corner. And it was like that became the play of the game. And that week, we made sure Coleman Bill was like Harpen to make.

to make sure he looked back for the ball because they were going to underthrow the pass, and they did. That's just really what it comes down to. To me, whether I don't think it should be a spot foul. I think it should be a spot foul. I don't think it should be 15 yards. Yeah, because then it gets, when it's 15 yards, some of these deep balls, it takes away big play moments

because guys will just take the dive. Right. They'll just take them out just so it's like, I'm not going to give up a 70-yard touchdown. I'll give up 15 yards. You see that happen in college sometimes. And in the NFL where it's more aggressive offensively and things like that, I think it would affect the game play a lot.

And if you can't stay on your feet and you can't, that's a shame on you. To me, you've got to coach it. Absolutely. Let's talk about, you mentioned all the agents being out there trying to sell their players. A guy that's been the talk of the town, OBJ. Oh, my man, Ferris. Yeah, Ferris Bueller, who is the star everywhere he goes.

Well, that's the other thing about the owner's meeting. So all the agents are there, all the media's there. And then all the people have to talk. I mean, this is the first time that the coaches actually talk. So, you know, you can go to the papers and Gruden's transcripts in it. You can go to listen to what, you know, McCarthy had to say they actually talk. Matt Patricia gave his five things that he's thinking about. So they actually have to talk. So this is kind of what comes out of the meeting is what they're saying.

And he kind of get a sense of what's going on. But Beckham's story is so relevant because the owner of the team or the president, John Maurer is talking. You know, Steve Tisch is talking. Dave Gettleman's talking. They're all talking. And nobody's saying we're not trading them like they said last year. Yes, and it seems like the media and the owners and the agency, they all got together before everything came down and they said, we had to figure out if OBJ is going to get traded or if he's going to stay in New York Giant. That was the mission of this whole trip because every single day, we've had a new interview with Dave Geddeman being asked about it. They asked him about the raunchy photo with OBJ that came out. You know, Getteman does the funny answer. I just saw the pizza and I stopped it there and everyone laughed, had a good time.

And then it got more serious as we moved on. It's like, well, can you give us a direct answer about OBJ? I was like, we'd love for OBJ to be back, which is, you know, a great answer. answer. We'd love for him to be back that keeps it open-ended and people speculating go with that. And then Mara's now not saying he should be the highest paid player like he said before. And now people are like, you know, has he changed his mind? But he won't say he's changed his mind. So basically we just have all these things swirling around the conversation about OBJ. And now they're apparently the Rams are interested, the Chargers are interested, the Browns.

Every team's interested. Right. Well, they are interested until they learn the price. I mean, look, here's the reality of the salary cap the era that we're living in right now. some of these teams don't have enough good players to get even close to where they need to go to. I mean, the 49ers have a ton of cap room. The Browns still have a ton of cap room. And so there you are. You're the Giants without a lot of cap room and you have an asset. He is a true asset for you.

Forget that he's also a marquee player. He's an asset. Do you want to turn that asset into the best trade you can possibly make? Because you have to sit there and ask yourself the question, which the Giants know now. One thing the Giants know about this, they've had meetings with his agent. They know what he's looking for in terms of contract. Now, he's threatened not to come to camp. That's all a threat.

Remember with George Young, the general manager of the Giants always used to say football players play football. Eventually, they play football. They can talk about holding out all that one. Skip it OTAs is a non-factor. Okay, if I actually would do them a good because who needs the distraction of them being there, right? So football players play football eventually. So he's not going to hold out all the season. And if he does, so be it.

The reality here is they know what it's going to cost to take them. And so they can sit there and budget them. out three or four years and know how much it's going to cost them. And for me, you know, look, I've never thought, look, Jerry Rice is the greatest receiver. We drafted him in San Francisco. He's fabulous. I don't think he took us to the Super Bowl. He was a huge part of us winning Super Bowls in San Francisco, but it wasn't like we jumped on his back and he's a great player. Don't get me wrong. Receivers, Walsh used to say this all the time, don't work on the receiving core until the rest of your team's complete. I'm the Giants. So that's my basis in background.

If I'm Dave Gettleman, he's an asset. And if I can get two first round picks for him or if I can get a one this year and a one next year or whatever I can get for him, I'm going to cash him in because I don't want to take, and I said this last week on the pot, I don't want to take all this money and devoted to him. To a skill position. To a skill position that I think I can get a vet. Can I get somebody maybe as good as it? Maybe not. Can I get somebody close? Perhaps.

So why would I do that? That's called, this isn't basketball. And sometimes we lose the sense. You know, you've got to sign LeBron, right? You have to have him. If you don't have him, you got nothing, right? You don't have to sign back. You can find another receiver that can play that role.

Well, you have Shepard and Ingram, two young guys. You got two young guys. You can do that. So to me, it's an asset. And I think that's why they're backing down because I think they're looking at this and saying, wait a minute. You know, now somebody said, well, if they draft the quarterback, then you could sign Beckham to a long-term deal. And then his money would be less than the quarterbacks and you could fit it in.

And basically treat him like the quarterback. Treat him like the court. Okay, but is that the message you want to send your locker room? You know, we got so much crap on this podcast about talking about the, The Dolphins bad chemistry in their locker room. And now all of a sudden it comes out of this owner's meetings that they wanted to clean up the locker room. And Landry and Sue are out. And I think it's the same thing in New York.

I think New York realizes and Pat Shermer realizes, hey, there's a mess here. I got to clean up. Can I clean it up? And is Beckham part of the mess or is part of the solution? I think that's where we are. And as far as the teams that are reaching out and have interest, the RAM seems to be the team that everyone is leaning on because they've already made these splashes. They get, you know, Sue, we're going to talk about that a little bit later. And, you know, they get Talib and all these splashy,

hires, you know, it kind of fits the L.A. mold a little bit. McVeigh as the new high young coach. And they're going to a new stadium. They need marquee players in L.A. They're trying to bring in stars to Los Angeles. Right. And it makes sense. I mean, look, they're picking low enough in the draft. Yeah. It's going to be hard to get stars. And they lose Sammy Watkins, you know. The guy they really wanted to keep. The guy they really wanted to trade for. Traded four. They gave up, you know, so they've proven they'll trade for a receiver. You know, they've proven they'll trade for a quarterback. You know, it makes sense. Now, what's the value of Odell? Okay. You've got to give up a lot of picks.

that are economically for, every time you trade a first round pick, you're trading away a modest five-year contract. And you're taking on a huge contract. So you trade two first-round picks. You're trading two modest five-year contracts that should be starters at two positions somewhere on your team and should be really good players for a huge contract who's probably going to be a starter for the next four years. You've got to weigh those odds.

And I think that's really what it comes down to. And does the Rams feel like this is the time? The Rams have to look at their own. They've got to get Donald's sign. They've got to get Goff sign. They believe in golf. I think it's going to be interesting how it all plays out. Is there a world in which they can make this trade for OBJ and then try to bring him in and try to give him a short-term deal like what they did, like a two-year-type deal?

Like what they did with Sue a little bit? You know, Sue gets this one-year deal. So he gets this one-year deal for it. But Sue had already come off a huge contract. Odell wants the $80 million. He wants that guaranteed. He wants that guaranteed. He wants that huge guarantee, so a one or a two-year deal doesn't quite get it for him.

You know, whereas, like, now, maybe they'll do a deal like they did with Kirk Cousins, where they're guarantee three years. If they did something like that at a number that would be relatively much cheaper. But to me, it's still going to come down to what do you think he's worth and what you're giving up. You're not giving up draft picks. You're giving up contracts of good players. People have to understand that. Yeah, and let's talk about Indomkin Su. I know I brought him up here about four or five times in the past couple of minutes.

He's got a one-year $14 million deal with the Rams. He joins Aaron Donald. Wade Phillips, the defense, I mean, they lose Tremaine Johnson. That was the big story. But they bring in Talib. They got Sam Shields from the Packers guys. Marcus Peters they trade for. They really stacked up this defense, and they got some big names here now.

The Rams, to me, are Virgil Salazzo. They're going to be the hunted one now. They are going to be the hunt. I mean, Virgil Salazzo was good before he took a shot at the Don and tried to kill him, right? He was pretty strong. He had a lot of people after a lot of people in love with it. But now that he became the hunted one, he had to step up his game. He got himself killed.

The Rams are now going to be the hunted one. People recognize them as a good team. How they handle being the hunted one. And I think this, I think when you look at it, the Rams, what we do in the offseason is, I've been reading this book about truth, Tate Fraser, not to lecture you on what I'm reading. But anyway, this book called Truth by Hector McDonald. And he talks about all different levels of truth. And so what we're dealing with in the offseason is me included, everybody else in the league, when we evaluate these moves, we're dealing in partial truths.

And what partial truths are is we see only one side of it. There was a great ad back in the 80s by Gardy and the newspaper over in London, where they basically showed a guy running after a woman like he was going to chase her, right? And from one view, it looked like he was attacking her. Then they showed it from another view, it looked like he was trying to rob her. And then from the final view, it looked like the big view. He was trying to savor from something falling on her. So the point of the commercial was, unless you see all the views, you really can't make a decision. That's where we are right now in Free Agency.

Last year, the Patriots were by far the best team, right? Going undefeated. We talked about this the whole time. They had four picks in the draft. Their offseason was incredible. They're going to go undefeated. Okay. They struggled early in the season.

We're dealing with partial truths here. We're not dealing with things. We're not dealing with unknown truths, which, There's four kind of truths in this book. There's selective truths. There's partial truths. There's artificial truth. And there's unknown truths.

And so when you're dealing with those four things, you've got to understand really how to evaluate this team. And where I think teams make a huge mistake is they take these things that they've done in the offseason and think they're complete truths. And there are no complete truths. And I think that's where we are with the Rams. There you go. Hector McDonald, great book.

Great book. I'm going to go check that out. You know, it's funny. I had a great meeting. I have these meetings with people. I end up meeting with more basketball people. I do football. So you know who George Ravling is?

One of the great human beings of all time. Yeah. One of the great readers of all time. He has a great newsletter. He must read a thousand books. I mean, he's an unbelievable guy. 80 years old. But he told me that to me, you can't resonate with this.

But he told me the last 20 years of his life have been the most productive and the most memorable. And this is a guy coached at Iowa, Villanova. He's in the Hall of Fame. So for me, you know, his learning and reading is most helpful. So when you get my age, you want those last 20 to be the best. Hey, got a little. This is just wisdom that gets dropped to every single GM Street. We're going to take a quick break here, and we're going to come back and hit some more big stories all around the NFL.

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Once they are gone, they are gone. They are telling me to say that. Again, check out the ringer.com slash shop to pre-order your official ringer merchandise today. You can also find the link to the Ringer web store in the podcast description below. Back to GM Street. All right, we're back. All the truths of the world are sort of washing over me right now. Yeah, well, think of that, those things.

You know, it's fascinating book because we're dealing with it all the time. I'm like, we think we think things are really true, and they're really not. And so you have to understand what you're dealing with. But Johnny Mansell, for example, like, that's going to be the true indication. Like, who's going to take a chance on Johnny Mansell? They have been rumblings and rumors. The New England Patriots spoke with Mansell right after his pro day on Tuesday with Texas A&M. That got reported.

People have said that, you know, maybe the Browns want to give him another shot to come back into town. I don't see that really happening. I don't see that way. I think there's a chance where he goes somewhere where there's an infrastructure and a culture and a vision for the team, and he's not going to be a distraction. He has a real shot. You've got to be able to handle it too, right?

So there's got to be an owner that's strong enough to handle it. You know, a little bit like when Jeff Lurie took on Michael Vic. You know, you've got to be strong enough to handle it, to be in the pressure that you're going to get from the outside. You know, to me, you're dealing with the guy, you know, the quarterbacks in that draft, Bridgewater's hurt, Bortles is Bortles. You know, Mansell's on the street.

You know, Manz, and then you have Garoppola. and Carr later in the draft. So Grappolo's huge contract, Carr's got a huge contract. Mansell, to me, the risk has to be low enough to where the reward is great. And if you do your due diligence, you bring them in.

We did. When I was in New England, he came in the same time as Jimmy Garopolo. They came in the same exact time. They spent the same exact amount of time together. They went over the tape. They went through the same procedures that each of them did.

And Manzell was really good on his visit. Now, he's going on to have a lot of problems and a lot of complications afterwards. But I think you have to be able to look at your team and say, we're giving this guy a second chance. And, you know, once he screws up, he's out of here. I think somebody's going to get, this league is too desperate for quarterbacks

not to give this guy a second chance. And if he proves what he's saying is real, you know, like if he said, hey, in 60 days, we're going to come back, we'll drug test you, do whatever. And he's clean, he's done it, then I think he'll get a second chance. And it's officially been two years since Johnny let go. He was March 2016.

His last game was that December 27 game in 2015. I think some of the last, I mean, whether the Browns won like seven games in the last three or four years or something like that, I think he's won two of them, right? It was a Chiefs game, I think. Yeah. And so, you know, to me, I think he could operate, could he operate in the New England system? Yeah, without a doubt. Could he give a team a dimension? Sure.

I think if he's clean, he's worth it. I don't think what happened to him, people are comparing he and Baker Mayfield together. They're talking about his character. I don't think what happened to him in Cleveland was he couldn't play for him. football. I think what happened in Cleveland was he had issues off the field that affected him from playing football. If you would remove those issues from affected him to play football, I think it's a smart thing to do if you can understand what you're getting into. That's part of the huge thing you've got to do with Johnny Manzole. You've got to understand what we're getting

into, spend time with them, be around them, and then you're going to have to handle the media tension that's going to come with it because let's face it, Mansell signs with an NFL team, you know, here's Sal Palantoneo is going to be at their door. It's the Tebow thing. It's a Tebow thing. How do you handle that? And very few teams can handle that. And I think if you can do that and you can kind of ignore that pressure, this might be worth at this point. And, you know, I'm a fan of Johnny's.

At this point, I think it would be a decent risk. And he's been out and about it. I mean, he's been telling his story. He's been trying to be his can. It was in San Diego throwing. I watched him throw there. He was at A&M's Pro Day. He's telling people, you know, like he's trying.

I don't know what else he has to do to get a second chance. You know, everybody makes mistakes. He's made a lot of them. But, you know, I think we've all seen this happen in the NFL where guys have turned the corner because they have found they've hit rock bottom. And maybe he has hit rock bottom. Maybe he has realized that. You know, it's the same thing.

And we've seen guys come back that I've had supreme talent like Ricky Williams. I mean, there are a certain type of guys where they may have gone off the rails at one time. But if they get back and they start to fall back in love with football, we've seen them kind of worked themselves up. And I think he has fallen in love with football because he said, hey, I'll go to Canada. I'll play in another league. Why not? You know, like to me, I don't see the downside of bringing them in if you can manage the outside factors. If you can do that, then you can let them compete.

I mean, you know, the Patriots have Tom Brady 40 years old. Brian Hoyer, it's not a starter. And they've got a guy from the same draft as Jimmy Garopla who they had interested in. If I were the Dallas Cowboys, the same thing. They had interested in them. I mean, the Cowboys almost traded up. Look, there were a lot of teams that were trying to get Johnny Mansell. It wasn't that the Browns and Ray Farmer made that pick because they just were, you know, they didn't

manage the pick when they got them. That's the biggest problem. Let them do the Snickers commercial. Let him run free. And he was at McDonald's and Snickers and Snickers. Yeah. I mean, that's just, to me, you come in, you're basically rock bottom. You're a rookie. You're going to keep your mouth shut. You ain't doing any interviews. You're not doing, you're going to prove to these guys you belong in the locker room. That's the key. And you mentioned the Cowboys. We need to talk about them right now because Des Bryant, right, right? There's the OBJ conversation. Then everyone gets right to Des. And is Des an elite receiver now. That's what everyone keeps asking. Nobody wants to accept that Des

can't separate from people. Like, nobody wants to accept that their offense is slow. The Cowboys are accepting it. Look, they're signing two receivers. The Cowboys' offense is basically a slow and buggy offense. They can't separate. People play cover two on them. And when they didn't have the back in there, when they didn't have Elliott in there, it was easy to play cover two because you weren't as worried about the run. But now people play cover two men on them and they don't separate. There's no separation. The guys made. making $12.5 million. Everybody in the league watches Des Bryant and no, get in his face, jam them, you know,

don't let him push you around and make it a tight window for the quarterback to throw the ball in. And I defy anybody to tell me that Dallas has explosive weapons on offense. I know Jason Witten's going to go in the Hall of Fame. He's a great player. He's at the end of his career. Des looks to me, is he worth 12 and a half? I think this meeting with Jerry Jones today is more about money than it is about what else is going on. And they did sign Alan Hurons.

A lot of people like Deonti Thompson comes in, and then the clapper, our guy, He comes out and this is my favorite thing that coaches do right now. They just say they love players. You don't give an answer. You just say, I love that guy. So he loves Des Bryant, regardless of, you know, if he deserves me making $12.5 million or not. Meanwhile, Des Bryant threw him under the bus saying I don't really know how to run routes, right? Like here I am, here I am Des Bryant.

I've been to league for 10 years. I don't know how to run. How is this possible? How is this possible? He doesn't know how to run around. He said no one taught him, right? No one taught him how to run around. He's figuring it out himself.

But you can watch him on tape. Like, he can't really run routes. Like, you know, that's the thing about, you know, He plays like a basketball player. Like he boxes people out. He does. He's a jump ball receiver. That's what he is.

I mean, when you watch routes, when you break down receivers, you have to say, okay, this is what he runs. He runs ins. He runs slants. It's like a basketball player. You know, he shoots the ball from this part of the court. Same thing with receivers. Everybody has their spots. Everybody has their spots.

What kind of routes does he run? What can he do? What can he do? You know? And what does he like at the top of the route? See, all this crap about, you know, receivers, fans can't watch a receiver run against zone. That doesn't count. receivers against man, when they get to the top of the route and they either break left or they break right or they go down the field, that's separation of the top of the route. That's what you're evaluating. And if you can't evaluate that correctly or you can't separate, you don't have the quickness to do it, which Des doesn't look like he does. Now, again, I'm going to go back to my truth book. Maybe Des is too heavy. Maybe he's got quickness and maybe he's not in great shape because we know he's not working on routes. He might not be in great shape. Like we assume they are, but sometimes I, you know, when you watch teams play, I'm not sure that they are. If he was in

If he was in the Rams, one thing I thought the Rams did a great job with this year, which Sean McVeigh did, the receivers, when you watch them come off the ball and they exploded and they got to the top of the route, they were really good. And they looked like they were in great shape. I think Wachan, I think Wachans looked out of place at the Rams. I thought he was the anomaly. He wasn't as well defined at the top as the other guys were. And I think that's where Des problem is too.

Do we see a situation with Des where this drags on and we continue to get the Cowboys coming back and we get both parties jumping in and saying, well, Des expects this from them? what he's given this franchise and then the Cowboys are sort of, I feel like Jerry at some point we've seen in the past, whether it's T.O. Or any of these big name guys, he eventually, there's a chopping block. There's a date where he gets rid of them.

Yeah, but I think Jerry falls in love too. One thing about free agency, you cannot fall in love. In the off season, love should not happen. But I think this isn't Tinder. Like, you just can't flip guys. Like, you've got to actually, it really, it is Tinder. It's too I think it is. It is Tinder.

It is Tinder. You got to be like you're on, is it Kinder or Tinder? Tinder. Tinder. You got to be like sweep. like swapping things. Like, okay, I'll go to this guy, go to this guy. That's what Belichick's doing.

He's just playing Tinder up there in New England. Okay, go to the next guy, go to the next guy. Because at the end of the day, they're not that much different. Jerry's got all this money tied up in Des. He's getting nothing out of them. He's got money tied up in Jason. Look, they're great players. They're going to go in the ring of fame.

No doubt about it, right? But you're trying to improve the goal in the offseason is to improve your team. I don't think the Cowboys are working on that right now. It seems like they're just still trying to fit the formula, the one, two, three formula that worked before with. You get your Irvin, you know, you get every single piece that was the Cowboys dynasty, you know, and they're still trying to fit that. So if he lets go of Des, he's letting go of his Michael Irvin.

But he's paying him 12 and a half. But see, that's where Al Davis had no problem. It's like, it's weird. The owners get to a point where because the money is so great with the salary cap, with the TV rights. Like, Al Davis had no problem paying $11 million for Charles Woodson back in the day. No. But, you know, get new office furniture? Well, time out.

You know. New carpet? No, time out. Wait, hold on. We're not doing that. You know, it's like there's a mindset that goes like, okay, I'll pay him 12 and a half. Whereas Jerry doesn't, like if Jerry would look at Des and say, I could turn Des into this and this, or I could have signed Sue and sign another receiver.

Now I got two for one. That's what the role of a general manager has to do is like, you can't fall in love. We went this year. There's a reason we couldn't separate on third down. Watch the tape. Take all the third down plays and watch them. Tell me it's on Dak Prescott. It's the same thing with Aaron Rogers.

Tell me it's all on Aaron Rogers. Come on. don't make sense. That doesn't make sense. But as we know, the Cowboys will be in the news and we'll continue to discuss this and see what happens with Tess. I want to talk about the Dolphins. You brought that up earlier.

Stephen Ross, and he was at the annual meeting and he was asked about the culture in Miami and they finally have just come out and admitted that they wanted to clean things up, some things that we speculated once in a time here on this podcast. Is it good to admit the problem if you're Ross and the Dolphins right now? Just say we did have a problem. I think you're trying to explain to your fan base.

say, we lost Pouncey, you traded Landry. You're trying to explain them why you did it. Meanwhile, you were telling everybody we're never trading Landry. The Dolphins sent out mixed messages. What I find fascinating about, if I'm Stephen Ross's, is you guys are telling me we need a new culture. You're the guys who put this culture together. So like, wait a minute, time out. Usually there's a change of structure when a new culture comes in.

Now, the resident culture builder, Tanenbaum, he's down there. I mean, you know, he's going to keep building players. like at some point, somebody's going to realize he doesn't know how to beat the Patriots. Like at some point, somebody's going to figure that out. I don't know when, but somebody is. Like, he doesn't really understand. He thinks he does because he was around the periphery. That's the great thing about sports is.

Well, with the Jets, obviously, and he had the 2009, 2010. Yeah, but he was with us in Cleveland. Like, he wrote me a letter. He was a student at Tulane, and I got him, and I hired him. He was the first guy ever hired. I got him his first job. He wrote a letter who was graduate in law school, and he was the first kind of salary cap. So he's been around the periphery of the program, but he really doesn't know the program.

And then he went to the Jets. And then he – so my point is he doesn't really understand how to beat them. Now they're talking culture. Like, you've got to take the culture out. And I don't know. Like, to me, if I'm Stephen Ross, I mean, look, Adam Gase, you're dealing with the culture down there. You're going to start a new culture because you signed Frank Gore, who I love. And Danny – they got Danny.

And Danny – Frank Gore and Danny could both be on IR after two weeks. You can't have culture with – it's like – you can't be a great. great leader if you're not playing. Sort of like Decker when he went to the Titans. You know, everyone's like Decker's going to come and clean up his locker room. But, you know, if he's injured. He couldn't play. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, Decker will be on the Raiders in a couple weeks. But anyway, you know, he couldn't play. So, like, I don't get it. Like, to me, like, if I'm Stephen Ross, I'm like looking at this thing saying, wait a minute, hold on. But then again, what do I know? You do know this, the Cleveland Browns. They traded today.

They had a trade. Their second quarterback that they've traded. So they trade. Their analytical quarterback. Yes, Cody Kessler, from USC. down to the Jaguars. You got the seal of approval from Hugh. Yes, Hugh.

Hugh had a great time. Hugh was great at the owners meeting. He was everywhere. He was in every picture. I saw him in the background. Hugh was great at the owners meeting. He was brilliant down there. There was more stuff he was saying.

If I'm John Dorsey. You would think that Hugh made the playoffs this year with the confidence he's brimming with. Oh my God. You would think that Hugh made the playoffs with all people want to talk to him. If I'm John Dorsey, I'm ecstatic with Hugh. Because he'll say anything.

Baker Mayfield's still in play here. Are you kidding me? You're going to take. Maker Mayfield, the first pick overall in the draft, stop. Okay, stop. But it's a headline. But he says it, right? I'm going to call him Huey headline.

Huey headline. If I'm John Dorsey, I'm happy because whatever he says, he just takes the distraction away. He's P.T. Barnum. He's over there selling the show. You know, come on in. We got elephants in here. Come on in.

Just look. Meanwhile, Tyrault Taylor's all a bridge quarterback, right? You know, Cody Kessler was the, he was, you know, he got picked before DEC Prescott. He got just shipped to Jacksonville for a seventh conditional condition. conditional, which mean they gave them to Jacksonville. So, like, to me, look, I think they're going to pick Sam Darnel. Okay, no matter what Hugh says, they're going to pick Sam Darnel.

That's what everybody I talk to tells me. The owner comes out to Los Angeles. He tries to pretend, well, I was out here looking at property in L.A. Meanwhile, I just happened to be. And, you know, no, the owner wants to be involved. That's pretty clear. And they're going to pick Sam Darnel. And we should say they had to get rid of Kessler because you can't have two U.S.C.

guys on the same roster, you know? Yeah, you can't. And he would have probably just confused him with his ability. Because remember, we were told by Hugh how great he was. You know, meanwhile, when they took him, everybody went like, what? Yeah. They just took a free agent, literally. But then the analytics told them, like, if I were, like the analytic flag at Cleveland is probably at half mass now.

Because that was their guy. Of course, they'll probably say, no, no, no, no, you know, that's the great thing about scouting. We crunch the numbers. We're taking courtesy. Everybody has an eraser and scouting. You know, they're geniuses with erasers. Oh, man. This is so good.

It's so good. Let's talk about it. I love you. I mean, you could just listen to him. I mean, I tell you what, Hugh could sell, I mean, he could talk a cat off the top of a fish truck. He really could. He could sell it all over. You know, he's doing a good job.

I'm happy for you. Let's talk about Josh McDaniels. Yeah, the big rule, oh, although the rule didn't pass. So he had this big rule, this big thing. This is his personal stance, right? His big, this is Ballard and all these guys. So they hire McDaniels. Remember this story.

They agreed to terms. They agreed to terms. And McDaniels were going to the Colts. And then last minute, he decided to stay with New England. and then they ended up, you know, finding a new head coach. And so they're trying to put this rule in, right? And can you explain a little bit about what's going on? So they wanted to do is they wanted to be able, so you could, the rule was proposed

so that you could actually have a signed contract with the guy you're trying to hire who's in the playoffs, which now the guy is working for two teams. That doesn't really make any sense. You can't do it. So you can agree to terms. You can't sign anything officially because you're still. It should be a memorandum of understanding. And plus, I mean, you know, we're all adults.

Our word is our word, right? Yes. Yeah, word is bond. To me, just because Josh went against his word doesn't mean we have to change the rules. Not everybody's Josh. And that, to me, is a typical reaction to something that happens bad. Like, I think Ballard's right. Look, you move on, you go on to the next deal. But a guy broke that.

That's on Josh. He's got to live with himself for breaking his word. We shouldn't have to change the rules to make up for him not keeping his word. That's my feeling. It's sort of the same thing you see with Letter of Intents in the NCAA stuff. I mean, it's like people started, you know, just decommitting. and then they're like, well, you've got to sign your letter intent. Once you sign the letter in tent, you have to be bound by it.

And they've changed that a million times. Now we have three different signing periods. But that's 17-year-old kids. I get it with them. I get it with them. You know, because they come home from school one day. These are grown adults who have been coaching men in the NFL. You make a deal.

You're in the playoffs. And it's hard. I mean, look, let's face it. It's a bad enough distraction that you're in the playoffs trying to win a Super Bowl. Meanwhile, you're interviewing for other jobs. It's hard. And you don't want a handicapped. And you're putting your staff together.

You know, it's hard thing to do. it's what life is. But I don't think, to me, never change a rule because one guy couldn't keep his word. I think that's right. I think they voted it down. I think it's the right thing to do. Yeah, it's the rules of the game. They are constantly changing here at the NFL. I'm glad we got to cover some of that stuff. Is there anything else? No, take fresh. I'm looking forward to you. ESPN, three on three in your tuxedo. You'll be prop Joe. I'm looking forward to it. We'll see what happens. I'm trying to be like a young Pat Riley. I would look nice. I love it. Yeah, perfect. I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully you have a good time down there in San Antonio on the Riverwalk. We're going to see what happens. We're going to be everywhere.

I hope you can see Jim Nance get his tie. The good news is if you outdress people. If you are the best dress in the room, then you can go anywhere, right? That's the rule. That's the golden rule. Yeah, you got to make sure you get Jim Nance and then follow them right to the Masters. Yeah, I want that tie. I want a Saturday tie. I know I can't get the Monday tie, but I want the Saturday time. No one's ever asked them for that. I'm going to text them and tell him. Good. Take Fraser needs a Saturday time.

And I'm doing an interview with Sister Gene as well. Oh, nice. We're going to have to figure this thing out. That's awesome. We're going to bury the hatchet. perfect you should I mean it's awesome I think it's a great story a little school like that that's the thing about the that's the thing about the NC2 is school like that can go but what I think was fascinating about what the coach talked about he talked about he only recruited guys from winning cultures

you know at the end of the day culture matters I know it's starting to matter in Miami good luck but you know it matters when you start that it does this has been another edition of GM Street part of the ringer podcast network we will be back next week thanks for listening