The Ringer NFL Show - What We Learned From the Combine

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

Kevin, Nora, Kaelen, and Steven open up by discussing what they have seen and heard at the NFL combine. Then they talk about Kirk Cousins, Kyler Murray, Carson Wentz, and what the offseason could mean for them. Host: Kevin Clark, Nora Princiotti, Steven Ruiz, and Kaelen Jones Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, long-time writer with the Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It is the Renfell Show, part of the Learner Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark at Combine Radio Row with Nora Prince Idi Nora hello hi Kevin Stephen Ruiz is here Kaylon Jones is here how's it going guys I I feel awkward I don't

know whether to do the natural intro we just did or the one that we just had to re-record I just keep giving away state secrets here so there's a couple things to unpack number one is that this is the second time we've done this intro we had technical difficulties the further technical difficulties is that Stephen Ruiz and Kaylon Jones did not bring their equipment and so I'm just sort of handing the microphone around as if I'm kind of a 1920s newsreel reporter. Kevin is doing a Herb Welch impression. I'm doing a Herb Welch impression just around the table. It feels great.

Caitlin Jones, how are you, bud? I'm doing good. Sorry for forgetting my equipment. I have no clue of Herb Welch's. You guys all just snout. He's Bill Hater's character on Estelle, who's like an old tiny news reporter who hits everybody in the face with a microphone. I did know that.

His name was Herb Welchard. just seen clips. Anyway, it's been pretty good. So we're at Combine Radio Row here in beautiful Indianapolis. It's like 60 degrees here. Yeah, 50, 50. Oh, wow. Okay.

I was trying to add a couple degrees. It felt, it feels 60. It's warm. It's warm. It's warm. Much warmer than normally is Indianapolis. A lot of nuggets. Everybody's pretty happy to be here.

Radio Row in general, kind of grim. But the vibe is very, very nice. Everybody is so happy. having me back. Normally in this thing, there's always like, oh, what's Aaron Rogers going to do? What's what's Calumary going to do? Like, that's a normal thing. And there is some of that. And we're going to get to that. We're going to get to what we learned today. But we're, like, the most people were just saying like, oh my God, like, we're all back. We're back. We're back. Everybody's back. The combine is like a high school reunion for NFL.

That's a little grim. But yeah, that's true. Okay. So we're going to do something very simple. We're just going to do what we learned today. So this is day, just so everybody knows, Wednesday is the, excuse me, Tuesday is the first day that. that coaches and GMs talk Wednesdays is the last second and last day. More than half of the league spoke today. So we got most of the nuggets that we're going to get. Interesting conversations for Sarians and Jason Light talked. Chris Bauer talked and had some interesting things to say about Carson Wentz.

Really kind of a 15-minute insight into a bunch of different franchises we got here at the Combine. Nora, your big takeaway before we get into specific things we learned was what? Well, so I think a through line between the press conferences that have already happened, the coaches and GMs getting up at the podium and talking to people. And then just sort of the buzz is this time last year, obviously we weren't here. But the theme was, holy crap, there could be unprecedented quarterback movement. And that didn't exactly pan out last year. But I think this year it's kind of the opposite.

I think the tone is very much like a lot of guys are going to be staying put. it's going to be a fairly stagnant quarterback movement year. It seems like Green Bay and Rogers are maybe working on a short-term deal. There have been reports that there's some movement there. It seems like the most likely scenario is that he stays. It seems like Kirk Cousins is most likely going to stay in one place. You know, there's guys like Baker Mayfield. You get into, there's a lot of talk about what the Colts are going to do with Carson Wentz

that came up today. I think that there's maybe a split building there on how to handle that. But there's a lot of guys, aside from Jimmy Garoppolo, it kind of seems like the most likely scenario in most of these cases is that quarterback X stays where he is. So I think fewer dominoes are at least expected around the league at this point, certainly relative to last year. So there's a couple, you can't really ask directly.

Maybe you can and just say, hey, is this quarterback coming? back in some cases they are. But the funniest piece of news that came out today was that the Cardinals said they were going to pick up Carolyn Marie's fifth year option. Okay, guys, thank you for that. Thank you for that piece of information. I'm glad that we had this press conference to find this out. Picked up. Fifth year option. It's going to be fine. The Arizona Cardinals continuing to be very normal, very normal about things. Was it unexpected after they, I feel like they leaked some things about Kyler, something about his work ethic, about his attitude, his general disposition. So maybe it is news that they picked it up.

Blake Portles got his fifth year option picked up. He also got an extension after that. That's right. Well, they had to give that because they had the cap number. It wasn't good. I also don't really believe those reports. And yet, if you are a young quarterback on a rookie contract who is very good and has gotten consistently better year over year, you can be a little bit of an asshole.

So let's unpack the Kyla Murray thing for a second. So, all right. My read on the situation is that there are some quarterback negotiations that start in the summer, and there are some that start in right around now. And I think that what that statement did, we start building the pressure on Arizona to say, you know what, let's pay Kyla Murray now. Let's pay him in March.

Instead of waiting, listen, Josh Allen signed in the summer, Patrick Mahomes signed in the summer. We know what that looks like. Lamar Jackson still hasn't signed. Um, every quarterback negotiation is different. Every team is different. Every franchise is different. So I don't know what that looks like.

I do know that Arizona is extremely weird. And I do know that Kyla Murray, uh, like any normal human, wants to get his guaranteed money as early as possible. Um, Kaelin walking around this, this kind of press conference set up this today as you did, probably more than anybody on staff. Uh, what was one thing? Listen, we were all, I mean, Ruiz is going to Panera and, I mean, it was a disorganized crew today. Caitlin was locked down in the press comments. What did we learn? I think the big takeaway for me was, you know, that like Nora hinted out earlier, Quesia doplemenza, like, really seems to be behind the idea that Kirk Cousins is the Vikings quarterback,

at least what they're able to do when able to provide, like, a stable situation around him. I think that was really the quote that stuck with me. Like he mentioned how, and I can't remember what it was verbatim, but he alluded to the idea that, you know, when everything is right around for cousins, very good quarterback. And that is very true. And then someone, a reporter actually asked him, like, so aren't you supposed to have a quarterback who, in those infrequent situations when everything breaks down,

isn't that the guy, like, the guy who is able to play well through those? Isn't that the guy that you want? And he said, yes, but, like, the idea is you want to create a stable environment for her cousin. I think you did that by hiring Kevin O'Connell. I think you could probably do that by building a little bit of a stronger roster. But I'm curious to see how that build goes because he comes off as very intelligent, obviously former econ major, but I'm curious to see how Minnesota goes.

Well, and those comments regarding cousins are meaningful because, okay, one sense, Cousins has a $45 million cap hit for this year. But realistically, if they're committed to him now, it probably means that they restructure or do a small extension so that they can lower the cap hit. But it's not just a this year thing, right? Like it does probably involve committing to Kurt Cousins for at least one extra year, if not to.

my guy Kirk's going to get his third contract with the Minnesota Vikings. I don't know the numbers in front of me, but I believe Kirk cousins has made about $70 billion. And the thing is, they've all been fully guaranteed. Two contracts so far. He's the first one to ever do it, I believe. And he was the second one to do it, and he's going to be the third one to do it. By rule, every like three years, an NFL team just wheelbarrows buckets of money

and just gives them to Kurt Cousins. It's not a bad way to live. Legend at the bank. Yeah. You can have your Super Bowls. Yeah. Okay. Do we think Kurt keeps his money in a bank? Mattress.

Under a mattress. How big is the mattress? It depends on the denomination. At a certain point. At a certain point there's enough money in there to make it an uncomfortable sleep. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So Stephen Ruiz, no quarterback movement, tough break for the Carolina Panthers. No, because I think this is a year where they just need to sit back, tank. I know they're not going to tank, but they need to have a year where they're terrible. That's been the problem in the last three years is they have not committed to

tearing it down and building back up. I think that's the problem. I mean, I don't think, I think they end up with a rookie quarterback. I really do. I know they're not, I don't think they're going to draft one in the first round,

but I think they're going to talk to them talk themselves into one of these day two quarterbacks. It's not going to work out. It never does in Carolina. But that's the strategy that they're going to pursue. And I think it's probably the smartest one just because they shouldn't be winning games right now. And you need to have some competition for Sam Darnham. If they go into the season with him as the starter, I don't know how you can continue to make the argument that it's getting better.

And that was like the company line at the end of the year. Matt Ruhle was like, I know you guys can't see it, but it's 100% work. I think he said a thousand percent working. Now, if this is a thousand percent working, I can only imagine when they get up to 2,000 percent or even 3,000 percent. It's going to be amazing. He's only making $18 million this year. So it's a bargain.

It's fully guaranteed, too. It's fully guaranteed. Another legend at the bank. Another man sleeping on a mattress full of money. You have the Smotrak page up? I don't. It's seared into my brain. I already know it.

18,000, 800,000, 58,000. 858,000. Hmm. Hmm. All right. Let's get your thoughts on the Kyler Murray situation. Weird?

I think it is weird, but... You have to hold the microphone. I agree. It was weird for me. It was even as weird as it was for you, it was weird for me. I think it is weird, but I expected it to be weird

because of the type of quarterback Kyler Murray is. He is very small. He has his... I'm going, but it's affected. him on the field. He has worn down every season he's been on the field in the NFL.

So I don't think you can discount the fact that he's small. Like you could with Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson never got hurt. So the fact that he was 5'10 didn't matter. But with Kyler, it's like affecting his performance at the same point in the season every year. So I understand the trepidation or

like the hesitancy to give him a big deal. I think it's going to get done ultimately like it did with Russell Wilson, who also had a weird contract negotiation. But I understand the weirdness. I think all of those are fair points. I just, I don't really think that this has to do with Kyler Murray's talents as a football player. I think if you have Kyler Murray, you have a fairly clear body of evidence that this is a quarterback who you are going to extend and who you are

going to pay a lot of money to. Odds are the longer you wait, even if it's guys like Derek car moving the market in certain ways, those numbers kind of only go one direction. I think the Cardinals are being weird. I'm kidding this much more on Cardinals' weirdness than Kyler Murray's specific traits as a undersized quarterback. Well, I just think that part of it is that if this is starting negotiation on both sides, it's gotten off to a very weird start. I mean, weird.

The leaks on both sides have been not the way you negotiate. Okay. And like this idea that they're frustrated with his immaturity and his lack of leadership, I got to tell you, a lot of quarterbacks that we consider superstars who have question marks about leadership and maturity. A lot of them. A lot of them are a lot older than Kylo Murray. You know what doesn't happen at the start of every negotiation? Their team doesn't announce that their quarterback has issues with maturity. Okay. They don't have, they don't basically, I mean, everybody has

this report right now at this point, okay? And I, it's, it's coming from the team. They say it's coming from the team. And every insider has reported something similar to Mike Garfoll has reported. it. Obviously, Chris Mortensen has reported it. And I just don't think this is the way on either side to start this. I'm more on Kyler's side because if I'm Kyler, I'm looking around and I'm saying, well, I'm good at my job. I'm seeing a bunch of guys who aren't very good at their job and they're my bosses. And I think that Deontra Halvigan is good at his job. He disappeared for half last year. He was injured the whole time. So if I'm Kyler, I'm kind of looking around and saying, is this an amazing situation? No, I better be paying a lot of money to be in the situation.

Another piece that complicates this slightly. This happens every year. But Kyler and Cliff having the same agent doesn't exactly make this a little bit less strange. Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. I just don't think that it makes it less strange. My thing is, so I was on the show yesterday with Dominic Foxman. And his point, I said, you know, Kyler build up capital. Do the, you know, Joe Burrow right now can get anybody fired or he wants, right?

He's not going to, but I'm just saying that, you know, it's a similar situation where you can earn capital through playing and through success. And Dominic's point, which I thought was interesting, was when you consider the strengths or the relative merits of Cliff Kingsbury and Steve Kime, shouldn't Kyler have that capital already? Like, isn't Kyler much better at his job? Shouldn't he be able now to win those sort of power struggles? That's why I mentioned the hype thing. Because what other reason would there be for this weirdness? Like, why would they hesitate to give him the money he wants? when, like Norris said, this is going to be a situation where we know he's going to get signed.

Like, that's how it's going to end. So then explain the weirdness to me. It can't just be Cardinals' weirdness. It, I agree to disagree on that point. I mean, but there's always, look, like, the team is always going to try to get what they view is the best deal. And then the player pushes back on that. So it's not as though there isn't inherent, an inherently adversarial relationship and a negotiation in some ways, right? Like, you're not. starting from a place of, yes, we want the same thing. So to add some context, today Cliff Kingsbury said that the two sides are, quote,

in a great place. He said that. I don't know, man. I think our long-term goal is to have Tyler be our quarterback. He understands that. He understands my view of them and how I feel about him. That's from Cliff Kingsbury. So Cliff Kingsbury is pro-Kyler.

He should be. As he should be. Tyler is his job security. But that's, I, I, I, I, there's so much. Strangence is the way to get stranger. Kaila? Yeah, it's going to keep getting stranger, but I don't see how this doesn't, like you guys are saying, like it doesn't make sense that the Cardinals haven't already just decided,

hey, let's just resign him and figure out and make it work because that's the only way this resolution makes sense. Even if they were to let's see, give him like his fifth year option and you wait until next year, if you're going to try and resign him then, the number is only going to get higher. and sure you might have a maybe like let's see how it gets hurt or something then we have a bigger discussion about like the fact that he's a tiny quarterback like maybe that becomes a bigger part of the Cardinals negotiating side but at the same time you know if you're not going to pay them somebody else will and the Cardinals will be in the same spot they were just two years ago without having any direction for the franchise and I don't know it just doesn't make any sense it really is Cardinals Arizona sports weirdness having lived there before it's just Arizona So let's imagine Josh Allen had the same concerns. Do we think that the character concerns the locker room behavior is really behind their trepidation when it comes to signing him, or giving him guaranteed money or whatever he's asking for?

No. I don't. I think there's waiting on the negotiations because they want to see what their financial situation is. And I think they have a lot of guys to pay and they might wait on that. I think that that's part of it. I mean, I think that they have part of this is to, I don't think they're delaying it because of it. I think that they're just trying to get their side out. And I think they're seeing that it might at some point down the road get much

uglier and they're trying to get their side of the story out. And I don't think anyone's really going to buy it. So where do we put Kyle and Murray in terms of quarterbacks? Like what, let's do tiers. What tier is he in? He's tier one, tier two? Two. You put him in tier two?

Okay, who else is in there with them? Well, okay. Mahomes. He's like, I think he's a, he's, he's not a end all, be all. You have, Kyler, you're done, you're cool. You're a Super Bowl contender every year. But I think he has the capability. He makes an offense better. He's not reliant just on his situation. He's also not the guy who's going to be, you know, a total truck and pull everybody along with him. He needs a certain type of offense to maximize the skills, but he is somebody who can. He's also not the guy who can, you know, he's going to be, you know, a total truck and pull everybody along with him. He needs a certain type of offense to maximize his skills, but he is somebody who can. He is somebody who can, he is somebody who can. He's with his playmaking make a difference for an offense. No, I agree with that. But why don't we put him in that tier

with those other guys? I think it comes back to the fact that he's very small and that it's affected his play. Like, we can't deny the fact. I was a big Kyler guy before the draft, and I discounted how that would affect him, but I think you could see it when you watch, not only when you watch him on tape when he's healthy,

but when he keeps getting hurt every single year at the same point in the season, you have to say like, okay, this is a trend. So I think that there are certainly things, you are on the right track. Having said that,

among tier one, tier two quarterbacks, he's got one of the worst coaches. That's fair. I would agree with that. So it becomes a chicken and egg thing. Right now, Stephen and I are just past the microphone between us and every time I make a point

and miss ripping it out of his hands, it becomes a chicken and egg thing, right? The problem is, if he signs an extension, he signed an extension to play Cliff Kingsbury, and he might not become, you might not get the help he needs until he's not playing for Cliff Kingsbury. No, I think that's fair.

And I think you're on the, like, I agree with you that if you're going to remain in this environment, and it's not just Cliff Kingsbury, the front office hasn't done a good job outside of drafting him, which was, in my opinion, no-brainer. Although it was, I guess it wasn't viewed like that because he was smaller, but he was the best player in the draft.

I would want a lot of guaranteed money to to play for Steve Kahnman, Cliff King's, So I get that aspect of it. But I do think playing for Cliff kind of has a benefit because you always have that, well, Kyler's doing his part, but Cliff, the guy that lost at Texas Tech, maybe he's the real issue. And I think you're always going to have that if you're Kyler. I mean, he's not, you know, we're not, we're not calling him of the homes.

We're not calling him a Rogers of Brady. We're not really calling him a Russell Wilson, except that you did because you called him short. We're not called. I mean, I don't think we're even really calling him like a Josh Ash. Allen or a Herbert. I'm not saying stylistically, but just in terms of ability or a borough. But you start to get into, you know, okay, Stafford, I'd probably at this point just because of age, you'd want Kyler. Like, there's the list if you keep going from there is not very long. And guys who are at that point in the rankings make a lot of money and you'd rather have one

than not, right? Like, we're sitting here saying, okay, Vikings are going to keep it going with Kurt Cousins most likely, and you can try to compete that way. And I think they give to do a pretty clear answer on what to do with Kyler. I kind of disagree here. And that's only because it goes back to the point of him being small. And the fact that he gets injured, and again, as a short, I'm 5'4. I can speak on this. Y'all can't speak on this.

Anyway, wait, are you saying I can't speak on it? Because I know, but I feel like I could insult Kyler Murray's height if need me. I'm 5'6. We're now arguing there's not enough microphone. to go around for the argument. Kalin is not talking into a microphone. Stephen Ruiz has wrestled control of the microphone from Kalan. Kalan is going to get control of the microphone starting now.

Anyway, anyway, the point is, like, the fact that he's so small, and this is the point that Adolphimenzu pointed out earlier, is Kirk Cousin is healthy. Matthew Saford is usually, I mean, he takes a lot of beatings, but he plays through and it's not a complete drop. When, I know, okay, yes, but there is a, there's a drop off in his plane. It's tangible. So that's my thing. It can't just be a chicken in the egg because at that point to me, if Click Kingsbury, I mean, sure, the record drops. But the point is, like, he's not healthy consistently enough for him to be a high-end tier, you know, I would say tier three. Like, to me, he's like, he's above average, but fringe top 10 for me, maybe when he's playing at a high level. But I don't know, man. The injury issue is why I wouldn't give them all that money.

And it's a fair argument to me. If you guys could only see the microphone passing situation here at Combine Radio Row. Carson Wentz, so Chris Ballard said, we're, quote, not there yet on a Carson Palmer, excuse me, Carson Wentz decision. Hmm. It didn't sound like he was infatuated with Carson Wentz. No, and it seems like Frank Craig is maybe a little bit more infatuated with Carson Wentz. Yeah, I mean, but that is, this whole thing.

whole thing was a Frank Reich absolutely he said he stuck his neck out so Stephen what is that like he said I heard him say he stuck his neck out but Carson Wentz didn't work out so what happened to Frank Reich's neck

that's my question like he's still talking about him like there's a chance that he could be good and like you read the quotes from today and the tone between what Reich said and what Ballard said it was totally different even if the overall message was the same that we're not there yet. Like, I felt like

the Ballard not being there yet was different from Wright. Here are the quotes. I haven't sat down with Mr. Ursay. I know, is from Frank Frank. I know I believe in Carson.

I believe in him. I stuck my neck out for him. I stuck my neck out for this guy. Last year, I was a big part of that decision to get him here. Elypsis. I know he's going to continue

to have a lot of successful quarterback. That might be here. That might not be here. Once you start talking about it, you're kind of done. That was my thing. Like, even,

and it was a complete 180, I guess, in the sense, like, what has been portrayed, as far as, like, what Frank Reich said

versus Chris Ballard, but listening to Chris Ballard, it sounded like, we're moving on. Like, we understand what we have here in Carson Wentz, but it seems like

we're ready to move on. But then with Frank Reich, it really did seem like, we know what we have in Carson Went, but we'd like to see what else we can get out of, them. Like, I don't want to give up hope. But then the next question is, who's going to play quarterback for the Colts in 2022? Well, but also, so I mean, it seems like they are being pretty

honest about the fact that there's a disagreement in the building. That's fine. That happens all the time. It's healthy to have it. It seems like coaching is more enamored of Carson Wentz than personnel. It's a personnel decision. Ownership probably has a big say, but you would imagine that if Ballard is a no and rank is a yes, they are more like. to come to a no decision because it is a personnel move. But I don't think it's like, I think the reason that there's sort of that it's this conversation is because there's honest disagreement in the building over what to do. Yeah, I do think that's healthy, but what's not healthy is going into another season with

Carson Wentz as you're starting quarterback. I just don't understand how you can explain that to your fan base. Even Reich, even though I do think he still believes in Carson Winst, even there was like a tinge of doubt when he was talking about him. Like, we got too straight, I stuck my neck out for him. He said, I stuck my neck out for him. I stuck my neck out for the guy or for this guy. It does not sound like a guy that's confident in the guy he stuck his neck out.

What have you ever stuck your neck out for? Nothing at all. I have no convictions. I'm not committed to anything in life. Just a guy going through life. Never stuck my neck out. So Carson once. I'm just ignoring that. Anyway, anyway. Justin Herbert.

I'm switching out of life. Justin Herbert and Brandon Staley. Stephen Ruiz's neck is just permanently out for Justin Herbert. So Carson Wins finished 9th in total QBR, 13th in adjusted net yards per attempt, and 16th in DVOA last season.

Now after he got COVID, it was a little rough. But the other quarterbacks on the culture roster right now are Sam Ellinger and James Morgan. Is that so bad when you consider the alternatives? Can you, Stephen Ruiz, tell me how you are going to improve upon 9th in total QBR,

13th and adjusted night yards for attempt, 16th in DVOA, when your other options are Sam Mellinger, James Morgan, and The Great Unknown. I watched Carson Wins play, and you're reading off those stats, but it did not look like he was producing those stats. And I think it's the offense that helps them out. I mean, we saw Jacoby Reset when he played a couple years ago. He looked passable, and they could do that for Jacoby. and they did it with Carson Wince,

then I think they can do it with a moderately talented quarterback. Like even a Marcus Marriota, I think is an upgrade over Carson Wend because he's not turning the ball over. And if you're worried about health, Carson Wins, it's not like the greatest example of health. So I don't know. And that offense,

what they had to do to protect Carson Wins from himself, like the fact that they were able to produce those numbers is astounding. I think it's, it speaks to how good of a coach, Frank Rike. he just seems to have a personal relationship with his player and he can't look past it. I mean, he only threw seven picks.

They were just like horrible. They were the worst picks of all time. They were the worst picks you've ever seen. They were on shovel picks. They were emphatic picks. And he tried to throw like 14 more. The defense just didn't participate. So I think he can go downhill.

The fact that he only threw seven picks, that shows that it can go downhill and it can get worse with Carson Wentz back there. He could have a 20-pick season next year. That's my thing with, Carson Wentz. It's like, don't get me wrong. The QBR is nice, but ultimately he's a very average quarterback. Like, you're going to get sporadic highs. You're going to allow streaky, like, he's a streaky quarterback. So ultimately he's going to be average. And that is,

like, that's what you're hoping for at his best. We know it can get worse with Carson Wentz. And I just don't see how it gets better, unless maybe Indianapolis, like, goes out and gets a playmaker, which I think even Ballard was talking about, you know, during the press earlier, like he was saying that the receiving courts needs to improve a little bit. They need to other number two. They don't know where T. Y Hilton's coming back. So maybe they get better there, but I don't know how much that helps Carson Wentz. Can I throw a name out there? If we're going to play the Carson Wentz like volatility game, why not go with James Winston? Who's, I mean, there are concerns off the field. But if you're playing that type of quarterback, I feel like it makes more sense.

I mean, he's productive when he's not throwing interceptions. Carson Wentz is averaging five yards per, like six and a half yards per attempt when he's not throwing interceptions. And that's the big problem with him. It's not like he's throwing picks because he's being aggressive downfield. It's like the opposite. I don't know how he makes so many mistakes when all he's doing is running RPO's at play. When was the last time there was a team with a quarterback problem, but you didn't think could be answered by James Winston. Carolina right now. If they signed him, it would not renew, restore my faith in that organization. I'll leave it at that. James Winston is six four. Is this one?

you think those? You know what? Like, I realize why draft people that put value in quarterback size now? Like, it makes sense to me. I missed on Josh Allen. I didn't think Herbert was going to be very good, but now I can see it.

You want big, strong guys to play football. I don't think that's that crazy of a take. All right. Let's get to the Tom Brady thing. So Bruce Ariens says he would not allow Tom Brady to go to another team. This is crucial because Tom Brady's under contract with Tampa Buccaneers. It's also crucial because Tom Brady retired a couple of weeks ago.

We did a whole pod with it. So lack and I on a Saturday afternoon recorded an emergency pod. Everybody was there. It's been weird the last couple weeks. So Bill Simmons, our boss reported on a podcast. I was on delightful time. By all he reported, not reported, but he said he thought that Brady was going to come back for one more year with the Niners, at least one more year.

that has been there's been some um the comments today you know jason light basically saying i'm friends with tom brady i would never the doors the lights always on for him i think was one quote um one quote was you know you can never close that door kind of thing i know tom brady i know tom brady you sir are no tom brady and so it's been saying to blame gabbert um so i think tom brady's not going to play football in 2022. Agreed. But I also think that, obviously, the door is open for him. If he wants to play for the bucks, he certainly can.

And that I think that the bucks hold the cards. If Tom Brady says, I want to go play with the Niners, well, they don't have to trade him. There's no player empowerment era that just exists for Tom Brady. So I thought that was significant in a way. What did you think, Kailen Jones? I mean, I think it's significant again because, like you said, the bucks hold the cards. It's like if their pathway to being a contender really hinges on them having decent or above average quarterback play. And if you have Tom Brady, you have, you know, very, very good quarterback play.

The roster that they have in place right now, I mean, they're going to be able to contend for the NSA South. They still have a pathway to the postseason. But I don't know if I put a crazy amount of stock on all of this right now just because, again, like, it's the offseason. There's going to be quarterback movement that happens with or without Tom Brady. you know, whether he's unreitored or retired, but it is interesting that the Buccaneers have a plan in place to, you know, kind of

handcuff essentially like the NFC from being able to potentially have him like other teams. Can I throw another name out there for the Bucks? James Winston. I'm just kidding. Do we think it's healthy that they're still saying stuff like this about like the light still being on? I think you can do it on March 1st.

I don't think you can do it on May 1st. Yeah, that's a good point. like when they commit to a quarterback for next year, and that's got to happen soon, I think that ends this talk and they can no longer bring up Tom Brady like this. You may no longer bring up Tom Brady. Right.

Like give the team to Blaine Gabbard. Like you guys said like you're no Blaine Gabbard. I don't know if Bruce Arons believes that. He seems to have all the confidence in the world in Blank Gabbard, maybe more confidence than Blank Gabbard himself. He did this shit with, with, uh, when before.

Carson Palmer, they signed Drew Stanton. And at the owner's meetings, he was like, Drew Stanton is my guy. And then they traded Carson Palmer and Drew Stanton wasn't his guy anymore. The other thing is all of that was based on, like, how good of a team, Blaine Gabbard would be blessed with. The Bucks might be losing, like, their starting center and both guards. And Chris Godwin, maybe. And for better or for worse, Antonio Brown was also part of the past catching unit on this team last season. Like, it's going to be different.

It is going to be different. So do you think they start Blaine Gabbard week one? I can't imagine. I can't imagine a world where Blaine Gabbard is starting in 2022. What if they start Carson Wentz? That's not going to happen. I don't think Bruce Ariens would, he would retire after one training camp practice. He would run an RPO and he would throw a pick somehow and Bruce Arons would walk off the field.

I would not. If I'm Bruce Ariens, I won a Super Bowl two years ago, I'm as old as I am, I've accomplished everything I have. I don't even know if I'd go through a full season with Blaine Gabbard as my quarterback. Like, why is he still around?

I think Bruce Arons is like, you know, a proud parent where you just kind of believe in that kid, even though if you know that kid is not good at something, you're going to tell him that he's good at it. You can accomplish anything. And that's really what it sounds like when it comes to Blaine Gabbard. I don't know who their option is going to be a quarterback,

though, because they really are a tricky team. I honestly had forgotten that right. It was Arn-Arte. Allie Marpet? Yep. I think just retired. Yeah, that's pretty significant dog. Like, I don't know how their office is going to look going into next year.

That's tricky. That's tricky. Nora, Tom Brady? Retired. Or is the door shut? He's retired. That man is retired. You've shut the door?

The light is off. I'm shutting the door. I'm shutting the door and I'm turning out the light. It's getting very dark. Anything else, guys, that stood out for you to day. Nothing, nothing really on the Rogers front. Matt Lofler, I believe,

is talking tomorrow. Oh, maybe you went today. Maybe I missed it. Maybe it was busy in the back. Goody. Dan Campbell, lit it up. Yeah, always. Talked about football players. He did? Yeah. I was surprised at how

excited people were for Tom Telesco. Like, you were very excited. I think Nora was excited. Ben Silak was excited. I love Tom. Telasco. Kailen was excited. what's up with Telesco? Yeah, how do you not, you should be like the captain of the Tom Telesco

bandwagon. He lucked into that. To be honest. No, I like Tom Telesco. Good vibes, good vests. I do think he's an underrated GM. I think he's constantly brought talent to the roster.

He drives good players. If they could just hire, coaches, you know better than the winning the game. Everybody was just so excited in the back. I mean, that was the thing. Brandon Bean was in here

for a long time. talking to the media. And I think that there was, I think in some years, guys like, I don't want to do this thing. Like, everybody was really into it. Every, every coach that I saw today was in a very pleasant mood. I agree. Talk to our AFC champion, Cincinnati Bengals,

talked to our boy, Zach Taylor, friend of the ring of NFL show. We're on great terms. Great stop and chat, is how I'd characterize that. So it's also Bengals fans can stand down. You probably won't. Why are you, Kevin's looking at me when he says that.

No, I don't know. I'm not, there's no Bengals fan of that. Oh, I mean, we've been anti-Zack Taylor on the podcast. Yeah, that's true. That's happened. I don't know that I would characterize myself as anti-Zack Taylor. Ooh, not a team player. I'm about to leak something to the press.

Some Kyler Murray adjacent leaks. Where's more? No, but Kevin was looking at you because me and Kailen were there and we witnessed the interaction with Zach Taylor. We know that they're on good terms, that they're on the best of terms. That's good. If I was getting married again, that Taylor would come to the wedding.

That's how good a term three around. That's how I would define that. You are like, looking into my eyes, like you need to convince me of this so deeply. Mostly because it was like a 25 second interaction. It was extremely pleasant. It's on Duke Tobin. Yeah, he's around.

He's around. He's in the scene. He's on the scene. He's doing it up. So calm. So calm. Well, I would also say that... So Duke Tobin is in the zone that you get where

he kind of crushed it over the past year. And I think that when you're at these events, you get to go around and be like, huh? Yeah? How about that? How about that fellas? Trey Hendrickson? Yeah, I got it.

I got you. Mike Hart. Turns out he's one of the best cornerbacks in football this year. Like, yeah, Jamar Chase and said, remember the Penn Ice thing last year? Remember the memes? Those were funny. Meanwhile, I won the ASC.

I did one of those memes. It was, uh, I think it was, was Sewell blocking? Like the meme was Sewell, one option was some random offensive line blocking for Burrow and him getting

sacked before he could throw it to Jamar Chase. The other one was Sewell blocking for whatever receiver. I think I did one where Joe Burrow was getting protection, but he under threw the pass anyway. That didn't work out either. That was even worse than the Sewell takes. Like Joe Burrow emerged as a top five quarterback. They went to the Super Bowl.

He's the next elite guy. He's the next Tom Brady. got to take an L on that. And I was at Sue O'O guy. 2L. My favorite genre of headline, looking at the NFL.com headlines, are just that everybody's talking to everybody. Brian Goodenkin says there has been constant communication with Devante Adams. Andrew Barry says the Browns have been in contact with Mayfield multiple times this offseason. Everybody's just in constant communication with everybody.

This is great stuff. Zach Taylor wants Jesse Bates back. So does Duke Tobin. Call him a personnel success story. Sean McDermott said that Ms. Trubiskey, it's unrealistically, back as QB2 because he's getting a lot of free agent interest. Tampa Bay? Biscuits in Tampa Bay?

I don't know. Wait, are you suggesting that Mitch could go to Tampa Bay? Yeah, I'm going to be honest with you. I'd roll with playing Gabbard over Mitch in that offense. Brandon Bean also said that Mitch Trubisky could marry his daughter. Brandon Bean said that? Yeah, coaches love to just like offer their daughters for marriage. It's their favorite hobby.

Is it Mitchibisque marriage? I think so. I think his wife might be pregnant. Congratulations to them. Congratulations to the happy couple. All right. Anything else, guys? We got through this

a four-person pod with two microphones. Nora is now just eating food. Gummy bears. I'm sorry. I was really hungry. I feel like if you're going to eat food, you could relinquish one of the microphones to make this a more efficient process.

No, I brought my own microphone. I'm sorry. I'm not going to be a team player for this. I want my gummy bears and my microphones. I'm going to share this. I shared this on the lost intro. I was walking back over here. Bob Lamont, huge agent to coaches and personnel guys.

Runs the NFL. Large pieces of the NFL. Totally. Always has big dinners at the same corner table at Prime 47 of Steakhouse in Indianapolis during Combine Week. 6 p.m. dinner res for the like heavy hitter Bob Lamont table. I thought it was early. I think that it's like an all night thing. Yeah, but usually like, I mean, they sit down for dinner.

at one point. And the fact that that started at 6 p.m. I don't know. They take the stake order at 605. Is that what you were saying? Basically. Yeah, they're like going in there sitting down. There's a waiter. Was Andy Reid there? Yes. 6 p.m. reservation for Big Red. For Big Red. 6 p.m. Res for Jason Lights there. Doesn't make the Super Bowl once. I think Big Red's going to be there.

Doug Peterson, 6 p.m. Res. How do you know this? Because I walked by. Do they have like a list of who has the reservation? No, because the table is in the corner. I know where to look for the table. And I look in. And because it was 6 p.m., it's light out so I can see everything. There's 10 of them sitting around the table ordering steak at 6 o'clock in the evening.

That one thing you did, that one observation is more reporting than I've done today. I'm going to stop you right there. Six o'clock meal is fine. There's nothing wrong with it. Anything after 5.30 is dinner. And I really don't, I mean, like, I agree. this. I love an early dinner. I was just surprised by it. Maybe those guys are

efficient like us. But they're not because the nights here go so late. Like if you start at 6 o'clock. This isn't Spain. This isn't Barcelona. We don't have to have 11 p.m. dinner dinner reservations. Yeah, but you're not going to bed at 11. You can

do other, you can snack and drink beer until 2 in the morning. Yeah, but that's hard. That makes me tired. Considered an early dinner? What's going on here? There's only one person who lives in Manhattan here, and they're just completely against 6 p.m.

It's an early dinner. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with an early dinner, but if you don't think 6 p.m. is an early dinner. Bob Lamont is old. That's a late day. End the podcast. All of those coaches are like 55. All of those coaches are going to stay out until 4 in the morning.

Sean McVeigh, if you see Big Red out of 4 in the morning, I'll give you a dollar. Sean McVeigh is probably his youngest client, he's not here. So he probably sent a text and everybody was like, what time do you want dinner? And they all said six and McVeigh was like 10. And then McVeigh was like, I'm not coming actually.

And they said, great, six. This is a non-story in my book. Six o'clock, totally normal dinner time. Find a new slant. It's an early dinner. It's totally fine to eat dinner at 6 p.m. But if you don't think that's an early dinner, I disagree. He's just wrong.

The Rezi app would call that an early dinner. I wish that you didn't have a microphone. So I could keep black one. Well, that is too bad. All right, we'll be back on this feed sometime in the near future. It's 707 local time. None of us have had dinner. Well, actually, two microphone, non-micophone boys ate dinner an hour ago.

I don't have mics, but they have Panera. I just had gummy bears. All right. Great. This has been the Ring NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network.