The Ringer NFL Show - What We Learned in Week 9: Jayden Daniels's Injury, NFC North Chaos, and the Bills D Steps Up!

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

Sheil is joined by The Ringer’s own Diante Lee to share their instant reactions to and analysis of the most intriguing story lines that emerged from Week 9 in the NFL. (00:00) What we learned in Week 9 of the NFL(1:43) The Commanders’ season from hell(5:51) The Bills have finally found something defensively(15:09) The NFC North is in full chaos mode(26:19) The Hurry Up: The Seahawks win in dominant fashion Visit jomalone.com to find the perfect present The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Sheil KapadiaGuest: Diante LeeProducer: Chris SuttonSocial: Kiera Givens and Brian WatersProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Shield Capadio. We're talking about what we learned in week nine. We had a Sunday night Seahawks blowout over the commanders and an unfortunate injury to Jaden Daniels. We'll talk about that. The Bills took care of business against the Chiefs. What do we take from that victory?

Does it mean anything? And then just chaos in the NFC North. Packers lose. Bears win a wild one. And the Vikings upset the lion. And so there is a lot there to get to. My guest is Deonti Lee, our good friend from the Ringer. He disagreed with me on some of this stuff,

like what we take away from that Bills win over the Chief. So we'll talk about all of it when we come back after the break. This is the Ringer NFL show presented by Fandul, the best place to bet the NFL all season long. Fan Dull's got it all. Same game parley's. Quick bets for jumping in live and your way, so you can build the bet that fits your play.

And Missouri, get excited because FanDuel's coming your way December 1st. Download theFandul.com slash ringer NFL to get started. Must be 21 plus and present in select states and 18 plus in D.C., Kentucky and Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-888-78-9-77-7-7 or visit cCPG.org slash in Connecticut. All right, we are back here with Deontay Lee, talking about what we learned. And that's, it's officially the season from hell for the commanders.

And not just because they got blown out. We're not competitive against the Seahawks in Sunday night, just the horrible game. Now they're three and six. But because with 739 left, Jaden Daniels goes down with what appeared to be a serious injury to his left arm. Now, we don't know the details as of this recording. But Deont, Deont, I think it's absolutely. fair to question why in the world Jaden Daniels is in the game at that point. I mean,

he's 387, 739 left. He's coming off an injury. The game's over and he's still in there. And you know how he's going to play. And to be clear, this isn't just like a Dan Quinn problem, but I don't understand why we see this throughout the NFL. And maybe this will be the turning point, but it's just stupid. Like teams put in all this work with like, you know, who's going to play in the preseason or how many reps are you going to get during practice? And then it comes to a situation like this where there's a blowout and your franchise quarterback, it's like they don't even think about it. They just keep him out there and I don't get it in. And we saw it last week, Brian Dayball is leaving Jackson Dart in a game calling designed runs. He's getting like level.

He's getting lit up. And I don't understand why coach is do this. So I know Daniels wanted to play. Who cares? Players need to, players are always going to want to play. You have to take the decision out of their hands. So I don't get it. Is it fair or unfair to criticize the command and Dan Quinn for leaving Jaden Daniels in that football game. This is maybe one of the only circumstances where I think you get to play Monday morning quarterback and be totally justified, right? Like, because the juice is just not worth to squeeze in this scenario. You're already chasing, what, four scores at that point, if not more, right?

The game is well over. I mean, congratulations, you have this garbage time drive that you're trying to score on, but that's not going to materially change the way that you're going to feel about this game. It's not going to change anything for Jaden Daniels. At that point, especially knowing that, like, Marcus Mariotta can show up in the game and it not looked like a total disaster, right? He can execute the exact same plays that they were running to get to that point. I think that the right decision, just in general, probably is to pull him,

especially, I will say especially because he's fresh off of being hurt and you guys are already dealing with injuries as is. And the season doesn't necessarily have to be a lost one, right? you can kind of take your lumps here, try to compete maybe for the seventh seed in the NFC later on down the line. And depending on what we hear back from Jaden Daniels's injury, all that might be off the table. And that's just not where you want to be if you're Washington. But I think all this circles back to, I think, bigger than just this moment, it's confirmation of what you said at the top of the show.

This is a season from hell. Everybody was predicting this regression. I think that we probably thought about it more from a style of play, more from a, hey, fourth down conversions, fourth quarter luck, all those types of things. And that hasn't necessarily been what's derailed the season. It's been health and the fact that this defense is taking a bunch of steps backwards. And now that you know that your quarterback is probably not going to be available for a while, you have to ask some serious questions about what exactly it is that they got accomplished this year,

if anything at all. Yeah, I think we have to see how bad this gets. Because even predicting the regression and I thought, you know what, I still like Daniels. Maybe they can get to nine and eight and still earn a playoff spot. The regression has hit and it is hit hard. and they've had an old roster and the moves they made in the offseason have not worked out. So there's kind of a whole autopsy to do, which we'll probably do here in a future show. But yeah, they're in a bad spot here.

I mean, it's really hard to come up with a reason for optimism why they would be able to climb out of this hole at 3 and 6 and get into the playoffs other than just, you know, maybe that 7 seed is going to be open there. So it'll be a big story this week. We'll see what happens with Daniels. We'll see how serious that injury is maybe by the time you listen to it. to this episode. We already have the news, but yeah, I don't know why they're putting him in that spot. All right. Next thing we learned here, Deonti, and I wonder if you're going to agree with me on this.

You might not. I think we learned that the bills have found something defensively. Now, let me be clear here. I'm not saying top five or top 10 defense, but there have been times this season where you and I have talked, and we've wondered, can their defense just reach that very low threshold to give their offense a chance to win a Super Bowl. And there have been weeks where we're like, I don't know. It doesn't look like that.

But I thought against the Chiefs they showed they can get to that baseline of competency that I always have been talking about for you. Just get to that baseline of competency if you have a great quarterback and give them a chance. I mean, their pass rush got going. Joey Bosa, Greg Rousseau, AJ Epinessa. They got the rookie Maxwell Hairsten back last week. He played more of a role here. So I'm not telling you, again, that they have an elite.

defense, but I thought I saw enough today where if I'm a Bill's fan, I'm pretty excited because I think I have a great offense and I feel like that defense can give me a chance to make a run in the AFC. Am I going too far or are you at that point as well? I'm not there and I will say that like the reason why I'm not there is because I just continue to ask myself the same sequence of questions when it comes to these AFC contenders when they play against the Chiefs, right? The first question is always like, what did I evaluate based off of what we actually saw between the lines. And then based on that evaluation,

does it materially change how I feel about this team and its pathway to beating Kansas City in the playoffs? And to tackle the first question, I think they did exactly what you said. They got pressure in a way that you don't usually see Patrick Mahomes be pressured. In a lot of ways, actually, this game reminds me of their game last year, week nine or week 10, where they gave Kansas City their first loss. and you saw the offense was moving the ball, controlling the line of scrimmage.

Josh Allen was a wizard on third down in that game. I thought that he was great and obvious passing situations in this game. And it really weren't even that many of them because they did such a good job on first and second down managing the game situation in the down and distance. But defensively, you force some turnovers. You get some inconsistent play from the homes. I would say this might be his most uncharacteristic regular season game that we've seen. And I don't know how long.

And especially over the last month, month and a half where it looked like, oh god, this team is back to 2019, 2020, 2020, levels of efficiency. It was a shock to see them play that way. But I think that that kind of speaks to what pressure can do. What pressure with four can do. And we have just not seen Kansas City be pressured to that degree with only four rushers and a team that was able to put a cap

over most of the explosive plays that they were shooting for. That was my initial evaluation. But if I'm being honest, the longer I sat with it, I look at Buffalo's defense and I still see, a team that is going to be asking its quarterback and its offensive line to operate at an A-plus level to go win a Super Bowl. And to me, the margins are just way too slim if you're asking your offense to perform that way, knowing that the team that you have to beat on the other side in a playoff environment would be Patrick Mahomes and this Kansas City team that has played

its best ball every year in January and February. I just don't know if I trust them to be able to replicate that if these two teams were to match up again in the playoffs, even if the game was happening at Highmark Stadium. It's interesting that their offense has not had an issue with Spags. Like, even you look at that play. I mean, the Chiefs came up in a big spot in that play in the championship game last year. But overall, you look at it. I mean, the bills played kind of similar.

Yeah, it was very similar to what you saw today. Yeah. They've moved the ball at will. Absolutely. So I think their offense is reliable. And in that game, their defense was just such a disaster. They couldn't do anything. It was like a 98th percentile game for the Chiefs.

in terms of success rate. So I was buying a look like Joey Bosa in this game. I mean, looks like prime Joey Bosa, where they signed him in the offseason. And I'm like, that's an interesting dart throw. But I don't know if you're going to get your bank for your buck there

with that signing. And he played really well for them. The other guys, like I said, AJ F Vanessa, Greg Rousseau, those guys played well. Cole Bishop.

I mean, how many times did they mention his name at safety in this game? So I think they've got some guys to, again, they just kind of need to play a game in the playoffs where they're giving the offense a chance and they weren't able to do that last year. So I'm buying them a little bit more than you are.

Where are you with like, because I was looking at this is, you know, I looked at the standings before we came on, Deonté, and I didn't realize this, but the bills would be a wild card team right now if the playoffs started. The Chiefs would be out of the playoffs.

They're the 18th right now. I had to. I was refreshing. Wait a minute. No, I have, This has not happened to me since I've been checking the standings. So the chiefs would be out of the playoffs. Yet having said that, I got those two teams in their own tier in the AFC.

Are you like, nope, Colts, Patriots, Broncos, Steelers, Charg, one of them, they belong in the same tier as the chiefs or the bills. Because I've got those two teams in the top tier and everyone else in the next tier. I think if you're evaluating like down-to-down quality, I actually think that that cluster of teams is a lot closer than what I ever would have said at any other point. Closer to the Chiefs and the Bill. Closer to the Chiefs in the Bill. Yes.

And at any other point, I think, in this era, than it has been in this era. But I do still have those two teams in their own tier. Now, circumstances might change how things ultimately play out, right? Kansas City's early season losses can end up really harming them later on down the line when we're talking about teams that are making a playoff run because there are a lot of teams in the AFC that have light schedules, right? You think about New England, they've got about as lightest schedule as it comes in the NFL the rest of the way, right? and they only have to see Buffalo one more time. So Kansas City could still be, in my opinion, a top five, top eight team,

but be fighting for its playoff life, right? Like that is a reality. I think with Buffalo, they have an opportunity to be a 12, 13, 14, 14 win team at their best. I just don't know if that, if looking at their win column is going to be instructive enough of how I feel about them as Super Bowl contenders. You're not going to trust them, it sounds like. I don't. And I think, honestly, when we go back and rewind,

watch this game, I think we're going to walk away from it, feeling more like, oh, Kansas City might have been feeling itself a little bit too much in this game. But if I'm a Chiefs fan, I am like, every time we have a game like this, it looks the same with, like, you outlined it earlier. Just our offensive line can't protect

and Mahomes is under pressure and all of a sudden you say, wait, what happened to the offense? We've been watching for a month that looked like one of the best in the NFL. I mean, this is the formula, the Eagles who used had in the Super Bowl last year. This is the Buck Super Bowl. Like, you know, every time you see it, And it's not often. I'm not saying it's easy. It's easy for me to say,

I just rush with four and, yeah, pressure my homes. Obviously, you can say that so the cows come home, but there are teams that can do it. And when they do do it, the Chiefs lose games. And you saw that here and the Josh Simmons situation is still up in the air. Left tackle seemed like it was a problem for them in this game. Joanne Taylor, right tackle leaves the game at one point. They had three backup offensive linemen in there. So we just have to see what that offensive line looks like. I'm with you. if we get to a playoff rematch and their offensive line is healthier, then we're probably going to say, well, that week nine game, I mean, you got to throw it up the window because this one's going to be a lot different.

So we'll see, I still, I'd be pumped if I were a Bill's fan, and I wouldn't be panicking if I were a Chiefs fan. I'd still think those are the two most likely teams to come out of the AFC. All right, let's take a break. We come back. And then a division, I have no idea what to make of. That's the NFC North. We have to get into the chaos we saw in week nine.

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You have the Packers at 5, 2, and 1. Just playing with their food once again in a loss to the Carolina Panthers where they were 13 and a half point favorites. You've got the Vikings with J.J. McCarthy going on the road to Detroit as eight and a half point underdogs. And they upset the Detroit Lions. And then you've got the bears. And honestly, one of the wildest games of the entire season where they were going from, oh my gosh, why do I even watch sports anymore to, oh, how could anyone not watch sports?

With the euphoria they felt at the end of that game. What's your biggest takeaway from any of these teams in the NFC North, just what you saw on Sunday? I'm never selling with the Packers, but God, do they make you want to do it, right? When they have games like this. You can't sell on them because they're upper quartile, right, in terms of like their level of performance.

That upper quartile for them looks like a Super Bowl team, right? And there are moments we've seen this year where they're just bombs away on offense, getting sacks and forcing turnovers on defense, and you leave those games feeling like, how could anybody believe that they could beat this team that they had to play them in a one game sample? And it's because they'll show up the very next week and play like they did against Carolina today

or play how they did against Cleveland a few weeks ago. So that always exists. I would say that was probably my biggest takeaway. I think as far as like the Detroit Minnesota game, it was an uncharacteristic day for Detroit's offensive line. I do think if you're a Geragoff skeptic, you leave that game feeling like that guy, is always there, and it's always just a matter of time until pressure brings that version of Jared

Gough out. But you don't usually see Detroit get dominated in between the tackles, the way that they did, especially in the run game. I don't know if that's going to hold on a week over week basis, and I thought like Minnesota probably played the best version of the best version of the game that they could have in that scenario. So I'm more willing to dismiss that one. And then I think with the bears, my biggest takeaway with them is just that you can't ride if you ride the lightning with them on Caleb Williams is great. Caleb Williams is terrible every week. You're going to miss the forest for the trees. I think that the more we zoom out, the more we're looking at like this offense is

accomplishing exactly what Ben Johnson said he wanted to accomplish this year. And as long as the defense doesn't do what it did in the last like six minutes of the fourth quarter of this game, that seem actually can end up sneaking into the wild card picture, even though I don't think anybody would pick them to win a playoff game. So I do think that the margins are extremely tight in this division, especially when we're talking about Detroit versus Green Bay because I think we're just seeing more variance with them than I think we expected this year.

I'm with you on the bear. I think the most exciting thing if you're a Bears fan is that what you thought was being promised with this Ben Johnson experience with your young quarterback who you wanted to believe in, it's actually happening. I mean, they had 576 yards of offense in this game.

They're producing explosive plays at the highest rate in the NFL. Remember after two or three weeks where we're like, they can't run the ball. They're now fourth in rushing success rate. He's figured that out. So all those things are coming together. And then just isolating Caleb Williams,

I mean, they have a third and 10 in that game where they are 35 seconds away from that being a loss that Bears fans will be telling their grandkids about. What can you imagine? And he has a scramble that he converts third and 10. And he finds Colston Loveland for the 58-yard touchdown. And yes, is it terrible defense? Sure.

but you still got to make the plays against terrible defense. So I think you're very excited about that. I still think their defense stinks, honestly. And I know they get turn. When they don't get turnovers, they don't do anything. I mean, Joe Flacko was cooking them in that game. Over 400 yards, he threw four. I think 10 completions of 20 plus yards.

But if you're a Bears fan, you're like, guess what? I can live with that. I am here for Ben Johnson, Caleb Williams, because those are the two guys I want to be here, three, five, eight years from now, and that's happening for you in Chicago. So I thought that was exciting. And let's just get, we got to get back to the Packers here for a minute. Because we've talked about the Packers a lot.

I think we both have said we think the Packers can get to the Super Bowl. Like you mentioned, I was giving them credit last year. Remember we talked last week and I'm like, finally they put together a whole game. Then I corrected myself. Well, they put together a whole half. A half. It was a whole half on Sunday night against this deal. That wasn't even a complete game.

I don't understand why they're incapable of playing a complete game, Deonti. They feel like a flip a switch team. Like they're an NBA team that thinks they can just float through the regular season, but they haven't done anything yet. They don't have a long playoff history. They don't have a championship pedigree where we should just say, oh, give them the benefit of the Dow, you know, they'll, like if the Chiefs, when the Chiefs do this, we're like, all, it's the Chiefs, you know.

And sometimes we get carried away, but still in the pit of our stomachs, We're like, they're still the Chiefs. They're still probably going to be there. You haven't done that yet if you're the Packers. And they're a frustrating team. I still think I'm with you. I'm not giving up on them. Of course, if I made a list of three teams from the NFC,

I think can get to the Super Bowl. They're going to be on that list. But I don't understand why this happens week after week. Tucker Kraft, by the way, might be out for the season with a torn ACL. That hasn't been confirmed yet. Yeah, the athletics said they fear that. I called him last week the best tight end in the entire NFL.

So that is a big, big deal. So I just don't know what to make of them. Like there was a situation ended the first half where it's like a 101 left. And they're running the football at the 50 yard line. And even Greg Olson's like, I don't know why they're running the ball so much. Like, why aren't they thinking let's go score a touchdown here? And stuff like that just seems to always creep up with them. And so I don't know what to make of them.

It's sort of one of those things. Like let's go through the ups and downs. of the next couple months here and see where we are in January. But I don't understand why we're still having this conversation after week nine. I'm with you. And you know what? To draw a cross sports analogy, you know what they feel like to me? They feel like the Celtics team that ultimately ended up winning the NBA finals a few years ago.

Right? And I think you remember all of the bluster throughout that NBA season of. They take so many threes. This is unsustainable. When they make them, they look unstoppable. When they miss them, they look like the most beatable contender that you could have in the NBA. And what I remember about that year was Joe Missoula being like very ardent about, no, the math is going to work in our favor. These are the most efficient shots for us.

We have the guys that can make them. The math will work out for us in high leverage situations. And he was proven right. Green Bay is just not necessarily borrowing from the same benefit of the doubt that Boston has now. They're not doing the smart math stuff. I feel like. Yeah. Exactly. Right.

And I think a lot of that is the over reliance on the run game on early downs, right? And the bubble screens. And it's not like if it was created. You got Jordan Love. I'm seeing a bubble screen, Deontay. I mean, come on. If it was creative, we could say, hey, when it's not working, the design is great. Things will probably work out for them.

If we saw them doing something a little bit more innovative or something that was, I think, a little bit more sustainable on a down-to-down basis, we will feel a lot more comfortable with it. It's just not as imaginative this year as what was just last year, right? We were talking about them last year on this very podcast when Malik Willis was a starter. Like, whoa, this scene broke out like, The single wing offense, basically, this is one of the more creative run games we have in the league. I don't know if we see that as often.

It seems like they're always like, all right, we're really running the ball to take a break between asking our receivers to run these deep posts and digs. I don't know if you can live that way, even though I think, again, when they're converting on those explosive plays, they can do whatever they want offensively. They just have not added the extra layers, I think, is what I'm looking to say in the run game to be more efficient, to be more explosive. And that's why I think there's just so much stress on Jordan, love to be perfect.

And you see his gunslinger mentality, man, it will cost you games if you're asking him to be at that level at high volume. Low volume, telling him to take chances, it can be awesome. You're asking him to be a perfect dropback passer. He's going to have plays where he's scrambling around, pointing at receivers. And then, you know, in the camera pans,

the only guy you see him the shot is a Panthers DB looking to pick the ball off in the end zone, you know? You're so right. That was one of the weirdest plays of the season. Because I thought as he's doing it, I'm like, oh, is this, you know, and then there was no, where are the Packers receivers on that play? Yeah, I have no idea. I know exactly the play you're talking about there.

So let's rank these. Let's finish by ranking them here. Deonte, give me one through four how they finish in the NFC North and who's making the playoffs. So let me, I'll give you a quick reminder here. Let's buy you a second. Packers are five, two, and one. lions are five and three, bears are five and three, Vikings are four and four. How do you see them finishing?

I would say, I think at four, I'm still going to put the Vikings, right? Because we just have not seen sustainable enough quarterback play. We still need to see JJ McCarthy put this together for a longer stretch. I will put the bears at three, right? This is probably just going to play out pretty chalk. I'll put the bears at three, but we will see, right? They can maybe steal a few more. wins, they get upset over the bears, or excuse me, over the Lions or Packers, that definitely

changes a picture for them. I'm going to say the Lions finished second and the Packers finished first. And I think it's going to be just like last year where they're playing late in the season, right? And this is like, this game is going to decide the division, right? This is going to be the tiebreaker game that decides the division. I 100% expected to come down to that once again. Those teams would probably be separated by no more than a game. And I think if we were ranking it by confidence, I would probably flip those two and say I'm still a little bit more confident in the Lions than I am in the Packers right now. All right. So you got Packers first, Lions as a wildcard team. And the Bears out as of now? If you had to choose.

I'll say the Bears out as of now. Okay. Yeah, I have the Vikings fourth. I got the Bears third. I'm going to go Lions first, to your point. I just, if you ask me who I trust more, I just would trust the Lions more in any given game that they're not going to come out and be being like, wait, there's 60 seconds left in the first half. Why haven't they? Why do they only have three points right now? I know it can happen, but I trust them a little more. Packers, Prackers A plus game, maybe better than the Lions A plus game,

but I trust the Lions more. So Lions first for me, Packers second, those are the two playoff teams, and then the Bears and the Vikings. I feel like this won't be the last time we talk about the chaos in the NFC. Norr, thank you to Deonté Lee. for joining me once again on this Sunday night. I will be right back with the hurry up. The hurry up is our closing segment

where I give you a take on news in the NFL. And I got to take a minute here just to give the Seahawks their flowers. I mean, a dominant performance against the commanders on Sunday night, took care of business once again. They're six and two on the season and there's nothing fluky about this.

I mean, they look like legit contenders in the NFC. Every box you want to change. check from a contender. I think they check it right now. They have it plus 81 point differential. That's third in the NFL. They've won six of their last seven games. Only loss in that span was that one by a field goal to the Tampa Bay box. Defense looks dominant. I mean, it felt like a miracle in this game. Whenever Jaden Daniels even attempted a pass, it felt like a miracle. Their fun's playing well. Leonard Williams was terrific on Sunday night. The rookie Nikki Minwari, I mean, he is an exciting

first year player. And Mike McDonald, we've known, is one of the best schemers and play callers in the NFL. So it just fits together. And that's not a huge surprise. I thought their defense was going to be good. And it has been. But as I've mentioned before, I did not see this offensive performance coming. I mean, Sam Darnold could not miss in this game. 16 for 16 for 282 yards and four touchdowns in the first half. That's just in the first half. He was on fire. He knows where his answers are on every play. He's playing better than he did last year with the Minnesota Vikings. JSN has been one of the best wide receivers in the NFL. The old line has held up well. They just create explosive pass plays at such a high rate, highest rate in the NFL that it allows

some of the other stuff doesn't have to be perfect when you're creating those many explosive plays. So they just look like a really complete team. They can get to the Super Bowl. I don't hesitate at all saying that they can get to the Super Bowl. They're absolutely good enough. Long way to go, but couldn't get out of here without giving the Seahawks their flowers. All right, thank you to Deontay Lee. Thanks to Christopher Sutton for producing Kira Givens on social and additional production supervision by Connor and Evans and Arjuna Ramgapal. A lot more coming this week.

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