The Ringer NFL Show - Where Do Aaron Rodgers and the Jets Go From Here?

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

Nora and Steven get together for an emergency pod to react to Aaron Rodgers’s appearance and comments on ‘The Pat McAfee Show.’ They examine Rodgers’s viability as an effective QB, whether or not the Jets will have the right pieces around him for success, and if his presence will elevate the Jets' contender status. They end the pod by speculating on possible trades the Jets will make going forward (25:01) and where they'll stand vs. other AFC heavyweights next season (34:44). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Additional Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's no secret the NFL has a problem with race. Think Colin Kaepernick. Think Brian Flores. But this isn't a new problem. It's one that started as far back as the 1930s, with a ban on black players in the NFL, with a past that informs the present. Blackball is a new miniseries podcast from The Ringer

about the four men who broke the color barrier in football. I'm your host, Chelsea Stark Jones. BlackBald is dropping soon on the Ringer NFL feed. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NFL show. It is Wednesday, March 15th. I'm Nora Prenciotti. I'm here with Stephen Ruiz. He's debatably the best podcaster in franchise history.

How's it going, Stephen? I just want to put it out there that I am not a victim. I just want to make it clear to everyone. I am not a victim. Don't put it in the paper that I'm a victim. Well, speak for yourself. Whether or not that's true of, I guess, remains to be seen. Because we are here.

We're going to talk about Aaron Rogers. Spoiler alert. because Rogers was on Pat McAfee for about an hour this afternoon. That was about an hour and a half ago at this point. Kind of a lengthy spot. He went for a while. He had a lot to say. And the news from that and credit where it's due,

there was a little bit of news in that hour long appearance was that Roger said, his intention is to play for the New York Jets. He said, I haven't been holding anything up at this point. It's been compensation that the Packers are trying to get for me. So there are ongoing talks between the Packers and the Jets, and it seems like they're just working out what the trade package would be. But all signs continue to point to Aaron Rogers becoming a New York jet at some point, although we don't know how long it'll take them to work out a trade package,

assuming that is what happens. Stephen, did you watch the whole thing? Did you watch the whole hour long Rogers spiel? Unfortunately, yes. Did you do this out of professional obligation or genuine human interest? For like the first 30 seconds, first minute, it was human interest. And after that, it was like, this is my job and I'm paid to watch stuff like this. Because I mean, I lost interest almost immediately.

Once they got into the dark room talk and that's like what started the conversation, I feel like I was out. But then he finally gave, he did give us something. I'm happy that I stay tuned because he did finally give us something. Yeah, I got to. So I'm with you. I think I've had enough darkness retreat talk. Like, I get it.

It's a dark room. Cool. You didn't have a problem with doing it. Your thoughts slow down. Dinner at 6 o'clock. Leave whenever you want. Cool. Feel like I got it on the darkness thing.

I've got to say, I was kind of riveted. And I tend to think, like, Rogers, look, we're going to talk about a lot of the things that he said during this thing. I do think that anything this guy says you have to take with a pretty big grain of salt. this is someone who is going on and on and on about how direct communication and transparency is so important to him unless the question was something that he didn't want to answer in which case he just equivocated. And obviously we know that sometimes he chooses his words carefully. But I did think that when he was just sort of going in on the Packers and going like,

they have been so horrible to outgoing veterans. I haven't many times said I wish that people, you know, major figures in the end, NFL were more willing to just sort of say their pieces and put their cards in the table. I think Rogers only does that very selectively. But credit where it's due, he went there a little bit. And I had fun watching, even though it got a little ridiculous towards the end. I liked when he went after the insiders. And we rely on the insiders and people in the business.

So I don't want to throw any shade at them. But it was a little funny. He went after Shepard. Okay. Here's the problem, though. Here's the problem. I wish someone would ask him this. He also hates the idea of anonymous sources. But he also doesn't want anyone to contact him.

And if you do a little bit of media criticism here, you sort of can't have it both ways, right? Like, you can't be saying, Schaeft or lose my number. If anybody gets my number, don't contact me because I'm not going to tell you anything. And then say, the media's reliance on anonymous sources

means that it's all fabricated and fake. You can't have it both ways, dude. You can't when you're Aaron Rogers. Are you accusing Aaron Rogers of having a strong opinion on something that he doesn't really know about? Because that would never happen. It would never happen. All right.

Well, speaking of the insiders, do you want to go through a little bit the state of affairs with what seems like it's going on between the Packers and the Jets trying to get this done? Yeah. So, like, I'm a little confused, though. I'm a little confused at, like, what will the compensation be?

I think that's the one thing that we haven't really gotten coverage of. And that's the question that I think, I don't know if it dictates the success of this move for both parties, but, I mean, it's going to change opinions on whether the Jets are getting a good deal here or whether they're getting something that's going to help them going forward and whether the Packers are going to be able to rebuild from this and how quickly. Yeah. So, okay. where I see the parameters of this,

and it is, you know, it's based on our insider friends. Tom Pellisero this morning said that the talks were ongoing. There's no agreement to terms, but the Packers are not looking for multiple firsts, like in the case of the Russell Wilson trade, like in the case of the Stafford deal. Then Adam Schaefter on Get Up this morning

said that the Packers are looking for something similar to what the Lions got for Matt Stafford, which was two firsts and a third. third plus Jared Gough. Now, there's a, those sound like different points, right? So there's a couple possibilities, I think. One is that we've got two different people who are reflecting the opinions of two different sides of, um, of this situation, right?

That might be kind of where the, where the, the gap between the two sides trying to find some common ground is. The other possibility is that it's really easy right now to look at the, at the Stafford deal and go, oh, yeah, they got two firsts, a third, and Jared Gough. At the time that happened, the consensus view was that the Lions agreeing to take on Jared Gough's salary was essentially responsible for the second first round pick in that deal. So if you get rid of that, then those are kind of, you know, you're in the first round pick plus something-ish range,

which when you consider the fact that Aaron Rogers is owed around $60 million this year, that I think seems reasonable. The Jets have the 13th pick this year. You know, it's somewhere right in the middle there. I've got a figure that plus a little bit else probably gets this done.

But clearly the Packers are playing a little bit of hardball. by saying, you know, we could wait. We could wait. We could wait to the draft to try to trade this. We could wait and hold up your free agency process, right? I mean, the Jets already went and signed Alan Lazard. That'll be official later this afternoon. Who knows, they very well may be calling up Brandel Cobb,

calling up Mercedes-Lewis, like, who else? But if they don't know that this is going to happen, it makes stuff like that or other free agency moves that they want to continue to round out their roster with, that does make it hard. So look, maybe this is just sort of the last round of hardball from Green Bay. Maybe they really are far apart. I guess we'll see.

I've got a figure that this ends up in the first round pick plus a little something sweetener in there. Does that sound right? Yeah. And it makes sense for Green Bay to hold out for more. I mean, you're giving up, like Aaron Rogers said, arguably the best player in franchise history. Boom. Who is still, like, we don't know if he's an elite quarterback. We don't know how much of his decline was based on the Packer's,

supporting cast, which was well below average, I would say, compared to the rest of the NFL. Okay. Can I just pause you for a second there? Isn't there some degree of irony that, yes, we've talked about the supporting cast, and it was obviously significantly weaker after they traded Devondi Adams, who was a big part of Rogers' supporting cast during his career there, especially the latter part of his career there. There is this sort of central irony to me that here's this player who, for a long time, has seemed

annoyed by the players that the Packers put around him. And there's a conversation about the decline in his production that has to do with that. I think that part is very legitimate. But there is a little bit of irony in the fact that it seems like what he wants very badly is for the same players who are around him in Green Bay to just go be around him in New York. Yes, it's so funny. We talk about how quarterbacks, certain quarterbacks need a certain level of supporting cast. and Aaron Rogers is supposedly

the type of quarterback that doesn't need that. Like he's supposed to be an elevator. He's supposed to lift up your franchise just by him being on your roster. But Aaron Rogers, for some reason, wants a very particular supporting cast around him. And it involves Randall Cobb and Alan Lazard and Jake Kumero for some reason and Mercedes-Louis.

Yeah, that's the funny. I'm not saying, like Aaron Rogers, probably I even still think at this point in his career, he's closer to an elevator than dead weight, right? Like there was a point in his, career when he was winning MVP's where you really could make a legitimate argument. You can kind of have not anybody out there, but you can have a middle of the road supporting cast and this guy will make them shine.

Now, I'm really never going to say that it doesn't matter to have someone like Devante Adams. Like if you move on from that guy, I don't care who your quarterback is. It's going to make a difference. We're not talking about Devante Adams. We're talking about Randall Cobb. And I love it. I just love it. That's why I don't even think it's going to matter if the Jets have to wait this thing out.

Like, it's not like Aaron Rogers wants the top free agents. Yeah, Randall Cobb is going to be available. He's got no other plans. I have said my fair share of at least skeptical things about Aaron Rogers. I'll just be honest about that. I don't always think he's particularly trustworthy. Guy takes care of his friends. Let's just be honest.

The guy takes care of his friends. Pat McAfee is getting, you know, 500,000 viewers. on a random Wednesday and AJ Hawks there for some reason. Why is AJ Hawkins not saying a word? Nathaniel Hackett got his best press in over a year. I mean,

again, say what you want. I've said plenty. Aaron Rogers seems like a guy you want to have in your corner. I guess, well, you know,

when Blue of Earth becomes a pivotal member of the Jets front office, then we'll know for sure. But he takes care of his guys. He certainly does. And I guess the question that really is going to decide whether this is a successful move for the Jets is... I don't think compensation really matters.

I think it comes down to how good is Aaron Rogers still? If he's MVP Aaron Rogers, the price won't matter. Like, even if they give up two first-round picks, no one's going to complain about that in two years if they're in the Super Bowl or the AFC championship game. And if he's like Russell Wilson, it won't matter if they get him without trading a first-round pick. Everyone's still going to consider this a failure. So I think that's the question is how much does Aaron Rogers have left? And it's a hard question to answer.

Because of the supporting cast stuff from last year, there were reports about the new receivers kind of having trouble adjusting to Aaron Rogers. I don't know. Aaron Rogers is calling audibles that may not exist in the system any longer. That may have been an issue. But I think when you look at the numbers really drilled down into him, you could still see some evidence that Rogers still has some high-level play left in them. The type of play that might win him another.

MVP award. But then you look at where he fell off last year, and it just so happens to be all the areas that Devante Adams thrived in the year before, like catching bubble screens and turning those into valuable gains, which don't, that doesn't usually happen. Devonte Adams is the only person that can catch a bubble screen, like, regularly during a game and produce good results. That went away last year. Aaron Rogers didn't get a lot of production off those bubble screens last year.

The catch is over the middle. those are tough catches to make. It's usually the receivers that make a lot of money that are able to make those catches, especially like in the deeper parts of the field. That was all Devante Adams. The Packers got none of that last year. But like the other stats that Rogers can control on his own,

like his accuracy, for instance, that didn't really change from the year before. So I'm wondering if, like, we talked about Rogers being an elevator still, I think last year suggested that that ability has kind of fallen off. But at the same time, he had Devante Adams for all those years. So maybe he was this quarterback the whole time

and losing Devante Adams kind of exposed that maybe he was a cut below what we thought he was at his height, like at his MVP best over the past two years before 2021 or 2022. I mean, so I think it's a fair question to ask and I think it's a fascinating question to ask. My inclination, like from watching him on film

all last year is he's still a top 10 quarterback at the very least. Right. The question is, is he a top five quarterback? I don't know because I think the one area where you started to see him really decline, like in his own individual game, had nothing to do with the players around him, was mobility. He stopped scrambling and he stopped escaping pressure. And those are the first things to go when you get older.

We're seeing that with Russell Wilson too. And I don't know if he's going to get that back, just moving to a different roster with better players around him. Well, so to answer your question, and because where I fall on this is I don't think, look, I don't think he's, I don't think the smart money is to say that he's going to be an MVP player again, a top five quarterback for the Jets next year and the next couple of years before, you know, whenever he decides to retire.

I also don't think that this is, that there's really any reasonable evidence that this is likely to turn into a Russell Wilson situation. So the question is just, is it, you know, what's worth it to the Jets and is it worth it to the Jets if he's good, but he's something less to the back-to-back MVP player

that he was a couple years ago who did do that with throwing to Devante Adams a lot. And I think it's the thing that'll be interesting to see just assuming this works out and assuming he enters that offense and what it looks like is how explosive they can be. Because Aaron Rogers,

one thing that hasn't changed and has been a constant throw, his career is that he's really, really protective of the football, which is great. That's a total asset to his game. Doesn't throw a lot of interceptions. But the combination of the decline in mobility, plus losing the go-to guy who could catch those deeper passes in particular over the middle or elsewhere, but particularly over the middle in Fonta Adams, really limited their explosiveness last season because he loses

a little bit of the ability to extend the play, and he doesn't have the guy who he trusts to throw those deeper passes to. Plus, he's just, his disposition is to be careful with the ball and try to avoid those mistakes. And when you're working with guys that, you know, as Aaron Rogers would bring up, you don't know as well.

He's more likely to avoid the high risk, high reward throws. It turns into a situation where Aaron Rogers is not doing the thing, that Aaron Rogers is supposed to be great at. And I don't think that that, you know, I don't, I don't think he's washed up. I still think he's got a lot to offer. I don't think he has everything to offer. But I think the biggest sort of question mark and the biggest factor that would influence whether this goes well or whether this goes poorly, you know, assuming a sort of

middle of the road, any reasonable compensation package. is going to be significant, right? So if he turns out to be Russell Wilson, as you said, like, that's terrible. But the question to me is just, like, who can catch the deep ball? Who does he trust to do that? And can he develop, you know,

I'm not saying a Devante Adams level of chemistry with Garrett Wilson right off the bat, but can you get something that sort of starts to replace that level of, one, ability, but two, trust so that he will make those throws. Because if he doesn't think that they're going to connect, he won't do it because he's consistently shown that he is a careful player in that way, which is a good asset.

But without the person who earns that trust, I do think that there's a missing piece in just kind of getting an offense with Aaron Rogers to click. So that's what I would be curious about if I were the Jets, particularly given the fact that, you know, you have the offensive rookie of the year on your roster. Your number one receiver is going to be that guy. not going to be Alan Lazzard. It's not going to be, you know, name your other veteran, former Packer, pass catcher. You know who that's going to be. So what that looks like, I think, will have a huge impact on whether or not this works out. Yeah. And to your point, like,

those throws over the middle were not completely replaced, but partly replaced by just Aaron Rogers chucking it outside the numbers downfield. He made a lot of those throws that those low percentage. I don't trust the guy, but I know this is a safe throw. If you throw it deep, like nothing bad is going to happen. Right.

Maybe an interception. Yeah. So he made a bunch of safe throws. His A dot actually went up last year, even though he didn't have an explosive receiver, but not over the middle. He was throwing more shorter passes over the middle. So I do think that's a good question.

I think like Garrett Wilson right off the bat, what he's going to be able to replace a replicate that Devante did was catching those bubble screens and doing damage after the catch. We saw that during his rookie year. We saw that at Ohio State. That's a skill set that's going to continue to be a strength for him going forward. So he's going to have that. And I totally agree with you.

It's going to come down to his chemistry with Wilson and how quickly they can get that going. Because his chemistry with Devante Adams was forged over like five years. Devonte like really broke out, I would say like maybe the last four years in Green Bay. Maybe I'm shorting him a year or two. But there was a time when he wasn't really that star. receiver when he was more of a role player. And there was a time like early in his career where he was struggling where he didn't like, he wasn't putting up the best numbers. I know he had a good rookie year, but the next two years were kind of off and on. So it took time for Devante Adams,

who's one of the best receivers in the NFL right now and maybe one of the best we've ever seen. It's going to be tough to get that in year one. So now the question becomes how long are we committed to this? Is this a one year thing? Is this a two year thing? Is it a year by year thing? kind of like it was for Brady in Tampa Bay. There's a lot of question marks. I think this is a move that makes sense for the Jets where they were. They're a young team. It's always hard like betting on a window staying open long enough.

Like I think it would have been a mistake to try to like, let's do the Zach Wilson thing again. Maybe it will be better this year. So I kind of like them going for it and going for a quarterback. It's just the chances of this turning out like it did for Tom Brady, I think, are much longer. I don't think it's as sure of a thing. And at the same time, I recognize that we were having all of these same conversations about Tom Brady before he went to Tampa Bay. Maybe even like more pessimistic conversations. Because at the end of New England, it didn't look good for Brady, but he went down to Tampa Bay and it like turned around immediately. Now he had more, I would say he

had even more help in Tampa Bay than Rogers is going to get with the Jets. But it's, it's tough. It's tough. I think like we're all guessing now. And we really don't know how this is going to turn out. And we really don't know how the rest of the Jets roster is going to look. Like we're basing, we're basing our perception of what the Jets could be next year based on what they were last year. And what we know, we know what they were last year. They were a team that played really, really, really good defense. And what do we know about defense year to year? It's volatile. Very, very, very hard to keep a defense together. So the jet, it's not like we're dropping Aaron Rogers into the 2022 Jets. We're dropping. We're dropping.

dropping them into the 2023 Jets, and we have no idea what that team looks like. Yeah, that's a very good point about the defense. Maybe I'm falling into that trap a little bit, because at the same time, there's nothing they can do about that, right, other than make decisions about, okay, with the resources that you have left,

do you want to put them into the defense, do you want to put them into the offense? The 2022 Jets were still a surprisingly potent team, and some of those players, look, the reason that defense tends to be so variable has a lot to do with interceptions can go one way or another. Sacks can go one way or another impact plays are so significant for defensive football and that can be really, really random. We'll see what happens next year.

That doesn't mean that those players aren't still good, right? That doesn't mean that Soss Gardner isn't still a really, really, really good cornerback. It doesn't mean that that defensive front isn't still pretty scary. And they've made upgrades on the offensive line. Breece Hall's coming back. It's a good team. It's a good team, I think, with a pretty decent coaching staff that has overachieved to this point. And Aaron Rogers, he might not be back-to-back MVP caliber, but he is a very good quarterback.

This is a very good roster. They are also the New York Jets, and Rogers is a weird guy who comes with a lot of baggage and who is getting up there in years. and you start to look for the down swing at some point. So there's all sorts of reasons to be skeptical. But I don't want to stress those so much that we sort of forget to say, hey, this is a very good roster. This is one of the, the AFC is so stacked that I don't quite know, you know, it's very hard to say, oh, you're a Super Bowl contender

because, hi, the Kansas City Chiefs, right? And even in the division, like, you got to get past the bills. The dolphins might be scary. Who knows? but this is a good team. So I find it very hard to fault the Jets for going for this because in a weird way, it's sort of like you have this option

to just go out and it costs you a bunch of money and a first round pick and something else and we'll see. But you have this option to go get this player who, and maybe this was a little bit more true when he was a little bit more mobile and a little bit younger, but who plays like what the best possible outcome of Zach Wilson ever could have been. Right. And you needed a do-over.

The draft pick was bad. And you had an opportunity for it. And I don't know if it's going to work, but I certainly can't blame him for trying. Yeah, it's worth making them bet. And, like, you can make the argument that them going for a more modest option at quarterback would have been an example of them. thinking that

2022 is going to happen all over again and they just need an improvement at quarterback because their quarterback position was so bad

last year. Right. That like if you drop Jimmy G into that same team, they probably win like 11 games and I could see

the front office convincing them that if they go out and get Jimmy G who could be had for much less than what Aaron Rogers is going to come

for. Right. That you could make the playoffs. So maybe this is them like reaching for the stars. But I don't know.

And I also think that we have to take into account that before Aaron Rogers is two straight MVP seasons, there were like some lean years. There were three years when we were thinking like, is this guy, we were asking the same questions

we were asking right now. Like, is this guy washed up? As Aaron reminded us this afternoon, everyone thought he was done. Everyone thought he was done. But now we could say four out of the last six years haven't been so great. Four out of six is a significant sample, in my opinion.

And the only two good years came with Devante Adams, and guess who's not coming to New York next player? Devante Adams. Yeah, that was that, that, Roger said he didn't make demands, but that would have been a nice demand to make. Don't think they could have gotten it done, but. No. I have a hard time. Look, Devante's a special player, but there's sort of two separate conversations, right? Is it literally not having Devante Adams, or is it not having a number one receiver who can, can scare an opponent? in a significant way.

And if it's that, and I'm not saying that Garrett Wilson right now is that, but I think you're in a better position in New York next year than with the Packers Group right now. Because they just didn't have anyone scary. And I think that makes a difference. It might not make the entire difference of having Devante Adams,

one of the best receivers in the entire NFL, if not the best, someone with exceptional chemistry with Rogers that was forged over the course of years. But there's a difference between not having that and just not having anything scary. And I think it's at least worth the benefit of the doubt that that might have been more significant than just Aaron Rogers without Devante Adams is not a good quarterback. Yeah, I do think that's fair. Like the Packers had a bad receiving core. Alan Lazzard, I know Aaron Rogers thinks the world of him, but Alan Lazzard is like maybe like a below average, a mediocre.

If you're optimistic, an average number two receiver. And he was their most reliable receiver last year. Like Christian Watson came on at the end, but he was mostly like catching jet sweeps and stuff. Romeo Dobbs. Well, and it just took forever for those guys to get integrated into the offense. It's fair for you to point that out, though, because if we talk about the end of the year, It did look a little bit different, but at the beginning of the year, I mean,

Alan Lazard question. Right. The next logical question, though, is how good is LaFleur? I think we're about to find out because now that's the person that he's losing. He's leaving the floor who kind of resurrected his career. I don't know how much credit goes to LaFleur for getting Aaron Rogers back on that MVP track and how much of it has to do with just Rogers playing better. But it happened under LaFleur's watch.

And we haven't seen Aaron Rogers play good football. without LaFleur since 2014. That was like eight years ago. And now he's going to an offensive coordinator who was not only fired out of Denver, but basically laughed out of Denver for how incompetent he was. And I know Aaron Rogers thinks the world of him too.

I don't know why that maybe they just make each other laugh or something. But there's question marks about the coaching staff too. Like Robert Salad, it seems to have a good grasp on how to create a good defense. But the Jets haven't had a good offense under his watch. he just fired his first offensive coordinator hire. Now he's hiring someone who seems to be linked with Aaron Rogers and maybe the only reason they hired him was to get Aaron Rogers who doesn't have the best reputation and the best track record as a play caller.

So I think that's another question. And like when you start stacking these questions on top of one another, it's hard for me to be overly optimistic about this team's chances. And another reason why is something you've already mentioned. They're in the same division as the bills. They're in the same conference as the chiefs. they have to play again, they have to beat the bangles in the playoffs.

They have to beat the chargers in the playoffs. They have to beat the dolphins in the playoffs. They have to beat the Ravens in the playoffs. There are so many good teams in the AFC that I really wonder what the, how the Jets front office views this roster now, like assuming they get Aaron Rogers, which is a safe assumption. Like, how do they view this team?

I think they think they're a contender. I think they're a real contender. I just don't think, first of all, that's, I think that's NFL brain a little bit, but I don't think that you do this if you don't think that you belong in the conversation with that group of teams that you just listed. So do you think this is the first of a lot of aggressive moves?

Or do you think that's my question? I wonder where they go from here. Is it sort of? Because the bucks, the bucks already had a roster in place. So they could afford to just hire Brady's friends. They could afford to do that and they could get away with that. Rogers,

like the Jets have Wilson. It seems like they're getting rid of Corey Davis. They have Alan Lazard. Like that's not the, the 2019 bucks. So I do wonder where they go from here. Is it O'Dell Beckham? Do they make a move for maybe DeAndre Hopkins? I think they need to add a lot more if they're going to fancy themselves contenders by the time September rolls around.

Because the Chiefs, they're on another tier. And the Jets were several tiers below that. And I don't think Aaron Rogers gets them to that same spot. I think the Jets will end up being very, very, very aggressive. Let's not forget that this regime with Z. Zach Wilson as the presumptive quarterback tried to go get Tyreek Hill last year, right? I remember spending some time last training camp, both at the Jets facility and the Giants facility, and we were doing, because it was when we did that all in week about like the teams

that are super, super aggressive. And I was asking around because there was this funny thing where there was sort of like optimism about both New York franchises. who, you know, spoiler alert, haven't had all that much recent success. So I was sort of poking around and trying to see how they felt about their rosters after making a bunch of high draft picks

and ended up realizing that the viewpoints of those two front offices were really, really different because all of the Giants people came from Buffalo. And I think that Buffalo is sort of the only... You could make a certain argument about Cincinnati, but Buffalo, to me, is the standard bearer

of a good current football team in a window that is sort of the only one that remains fiscally conservative, let's say. Like, that's still a team that doesn't go crazy in mortgage its future and sort of believes in paying off the credit card as you go, as opposed to racking up a bunch of debt and worrying about it later. when that regime with Brandon Mean came in there, they had to clear all of that money in all the dead cap in Josh Allen's first year. And I think they sort of thought, okay, now that we've cleared this up, we're going to be sort of responsible as we build this forward. And responsible actually might be a bad choice of words

because sometimes the smarter decision is to do it the other way, even though that can have a lot of risk that goes along with it. but I think the bills look at their organization as behaving differently from someone like the Rams. I think a lot of that has rubbed off on the Giants because they all worked there. We've seen them start going through something fairly similar. The Jets are not like that. I remember I pulled up the piece because I remember asking Sala about it. And he basically said if you have an established quarterback, he believed in being, quote, ultra-aggressive was how he termed it.

and he did bring up that they had gone and tried to get Tyreek. So I actually think the Jets would love to be a kind of Rams-like team that takes those big, risky swings. And the only reason they hadn't been functioning so much that way was, one, they'd tried. And, you know, Tyreek said no. But also because the quarterback situation was, so murky, at least from their viewpoint, because they still were holding out hope

that Wilson would develop into something, that they didn't feel quite comfortable taking those swings, but it didn't mean that they didn't want to make them. So I do think that we'll see a lot of aggressive dealmaking come from Joe Douglas, come from the Jets, along with them, although you have to bear in mind that their resources will be strapped a little bit if they do get this done.

But I think the ethos will definitely be, let's go all in. Then the next question is, who do they go out and get? And maybe it feels like they are a year too late because there are a lot of stars straight in the last couple of years. And then we've seen Jaylen Ramsey get traded. We've seen Tyreek Hill get traded. We saw A.J. Brown get traded. I can't think of anybody.

And maybe these guys pop up later and maybe we just haven't heard about it. I can't think of anyone right now outside of D'Andre Hopkins who's getting older. He's very expensive. And he's coming off a year where he was, suspended for PEDs. I don't know if that's the same as investing into Tyrie Kill, who was still a star player when he was traded from Kansas City. So that's my other question is like, what could you even add to this team? Maybe all you end up adding is Alan Lazzard. It may be a hobbled Odell Beckham who's coming off in a season that he didn't play at all. There aren't a lot of like

star pieces out there. So they have, they may have to be even more aggressive to go get those guys. And like you said, they're going to have fewer resources to do that. It's going to be tough, but I think Joe Douglas is a good GM. I think he's going to figure out ways to fill out the holes in the roster and work around whatever limitations they have resource-wise. I have confidence in him doing that. My question is the coaching staff, Aaron Rogers age, and the rest of the Jets roster. I'm not optimistic about this straight, if that's not clear. What do you think about Rogers and the Big Apple? Oh, man. At what point do you think he deletes his Twitter account? and stop talking to me.

Never. Because it's going to, no, it's going to happen. Never. It's going to happen for one week. What about the entire history of Aaron Rogers tells you that this man has any ability to log off? That's a good point.

He did linger around on the Maccafee broadcast for like an hour. Dude. He's probably still on that. Like, shatton, name and names, getting Schefter to tweet out screenshots. That was great, by the way.

I loved that. I think we brought this up in a pod a couple weeks ago, but like who is Aaron Rogers doing this at is a question you always have to ask. He always has. as like a, not a victim in mind, but like he always has a target in mind when he's doing something. I'm convinced of that. Like he, he's, we saw the Schaefter and Resini shots that he took during the interview. I'm sure he, he dropped in some subtle ones that we didn't even pick up on yet, that we have to go back and review the tape. Yeah, by the way, not fooling anyone pretending he doesn't

know how to say Diana Rossini. Like, yeah, you had that queued up. I don't know. I don't know what to say this, but you name dropped every single NFL insider ever and you're, you're trying to, convince us that you don't know their names, you have alerts on. What did you think about Schefter only having four unread texts? That's amazing because I have like a hundred in my... He's not in any group. He's not in any group chats. Yeah, I felt really humbled by that personally because people are not anywhere near as

interested in texting me as they are in Adam Schefter. And let's see, let's open it up right now. 208. He's not in any group chats. That's what that tells me. I don't know. based on what I know about a lot of insidering, that would surprise me.

I think he's just vigilant. I mean, so the four on Reds, he had a fully charged phone battery, but was already in power save mode. I mean... Wow, you studied the tape. It's the... You don't know screenshots, Stephen Ruiz.

It's the first day of pre-agency. He's got to, like, he's got to be all ready to go. I was impressed by that. I thought that was a veteran move by Shefti showing us, showing us what he's working with on the phone. But yeah. Did you notice he deleted, he deleted his first text that drew the text from Rogers? Well, did he delete it or did he do the thing where you sort of like pull it all the way up to the top and then just take that photo and crop it? He doesn't have the finger dexterity to do that.

Actually, that's probably not true. That's not true. Spends on his phone all day. Yeah, he's like a Adam Schaefter. That guy is like, he would win a. of operating this phone. Totally. We were talking about Rogers in New York.

It's going to be funny. There's going to be some moments. But I don't think he's ever going to log off. No, he won't. I think the whole New York media thing is kind of overrated. I don't think he's going to matter, especially for a guy like Rogers. He's been in the spotlight his whole career, basically.

I really don't think it's going to affect him. This man was forged in the Brett Farr of retirement watch. If that's your first exposure to professional football, that media storm, think you're going to be fine. You can take on anything. Who's the New York Post beat writer is going to intimidate Aaron Rogers with like a spicy question? So I tend to agree. I tend to agree. And look, it's very clear that in Green Bay and Malibu, wherever he's hanging out, Aaron Rogers is already taking a lot of note about what people

are saying and reporting and doing in the NFL media. So something's already happening. I do think like something is going to happen the first day that he gets up and does a press conference, somebody's going to raise their hand and say, how do you feel about the Johnson & Johnson guy who you've said as part of Big Pharma wanted to paint you as a villain? How do you feel about the fact that that guy's signing your $60 million worth of checks this year? And he's not going to like it. And I'm not saying that that wouldn't happen in Green Bay or anywhere else.

I think it's more that that stuff just happens when you go to a new, team because there's just sort of this big splash where everybody wants to bring everything up and nobody sort of nobody knows each other, nobody has relationships. Some of that stuff is going to happen and it's going to be messy. That's my only point. I don't know that it has anything to do with New York, but I do think that that's happening. No, I do agree. But like, we have to remember the messiest season of Aaron Rogers' career happened to coincide

with an MVP campaign. Yeah. No, that might be the best possible outcome for the Jets, right? is like make him really mad about something. If we get a new pandemic, Aaron Rogers, they might go 17 and O and win a Super Bowl. Stephen.

I'm not advocating for that. I don't want to see Aaron Rogers win a Super Bowl. All right. I'm anti-pandemic. I just want to make that clear. Thanks for clarifying that. We all, as we all are.

Let's see. Am I missing anything? He said that he finished the year thinking he was 90% going to retire, but the thought process started to change in the darkness. And then he came out, and he had a bunch of texts. That was a lie.

That was a lie. I'm calling him out. He made that up. It's very hard to verify what goes on in the darkness. Well, we've come out of the darkness. I feel in the light on this whole situation now, in part thanks to Aaron Rogers going on Pat McAfee, chat with us for quite some time. Let's end this on a predictive note, Stephen.

Where do you think the Jets finish their season in 2023, assuming they get this deal done with Rogers. Like, assuming that they don't add a player or two that really moves the needle for them, I still think this is the third best team in the division. I know there are a lot of question marks surrounding Tua's health and how that's going to affect the dolphins. But I think if they're healthy, the dolphins are healthy. Let's just assume every team in the NFL is going to be healthy and have their full roster. I think they're the third best team in the division still. Because when the dolphins are riding high last year, that was maybe one of the three best teams in football. And I think they've gotten better. They've got in a new defensive coordinator

and Vic Fangio, who I think makes them a lot better. They've gotten Jaylene Ramsey, who I think changes the math for them on defense. And that was a big problem for them last year. I really like the dolphins. I might pick the dolphins to win the AFC East. And then I think the bills you have, I'm never going to count them out as long as Josh Allen's playing and playing at a high level. So like in their own division, I think they're third. In the AFC, I would say they're going to struggle to win a wildcard spot. I think they're going to be like a five, six, seven seed contender. And that's as, that's as high as I'm willing to put them until they get like a star wide receiver or another star pass rusher or something along those lines.

Can you think of anyone who would fit that mold right now? I know a lot of people who would fit that description, they're going to have a hard time going and getting because even, you know, okay, the Broncos want a first for Jerry Judy. I don't know that that's happening, but it's hard to find the names that would equal those splashes that are out there on the market right now. Yeah, so, no, I really don't. Like, D'Andre Hopkins, maybe, and I don't know if I would even consider him that type of player at this point in his career based on the last couple years and his health concerns and I'm in PD thing.

So I can't think of one. Maybe one will emerge eventually. So really, you think they're trying to squeak into the wild card? Yes. I'm with you that they're not the. they're not the best team in their division. I would give that to the bills. I just, there's so much uncertainty with Miami.

I feel like if you sort of average out all the outcomes, I got a little bit more nervous on it than I think you do. But I agree with you. I think they're solidly a wild card team. I think they, I think you could feel pretty good about making the playoffs. It's really hard. When you can't,

when they don't feel like the best team in the division, it gets really hard, right? Because then you start talking about some of the teams that they would have to face in a potential wild card round. And that AFC is just, it's just really stacked. Right. Let's list the teams and say, like, who are they better than? Are they better than the Ravens? Well, that's that we can't answer it right now.

That's hard to answer. You know, that is the $190 million question or whatever. Does this make them better than the bank? I would say no. No. I agree. No. How about the Chargers?

Sigh. Yeah, I think that's the appropriate response. I don't want to say yes. Like I want to say no. I feel like it should be no. But also, when are we going to start factoring everything the Chargers have ever done into their personal history and evaluation? Never. We're both going to pick them to make the playoffs itself.

I'll give them better than the Chargers. How about the Jaguars? Ooh. Yeah. See, that's the one that I don't know about the Jaguars. I would give you the Chargers because I think the Chargers off season is off to a shaky start.

I don't know about the Jaguars. And the fact that we're even asking this question and having trouble coming up with an answer kind of speaks to what I've been saying. Like, if you're being compared to the Jaguars, you're not catching the Chiefs. And that's what you have to do for this to be a success.

That I agree with. But I do, I think they would, I think they would deserve to be considered better than the Jaguars. I will say this, Jets fans. It's sure going to beat watching Zach Wilson play. And on that note, this has been the ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Prunciati. Thank you to Stephen. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for production on this episode.

And to Arjuna Ramgapal and Connor and Evans for additional production supervision.