The Ringer NFL Show - Which 0-2 Teams Can Make the Playoffs? Plus, Bryce Young’s Panthers Career is Over.

Episode Date: September 18, 2024

The Carolina Panthers have benched sophomore quarterback Bryce Young in favor of Andy Dalton, leading The Ringer’s Sheil Kapadia to declare that the former no. 1 pick’s time in Carolina is likely coming to an end soon. Plus, he and Steven Ruiz discuss whether Derek Carr’s success is sustainable, and why Caleb Williams shouldn’t shoulder all the criticism in Chicago. But before all that, Nora Princiotti tells Sheil which 0-2 teams she believes could make a playoff run, as well as the teams she’s writing off. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. CHAPTERS: Why the Bengals still have hope (00:00) Doubting the Ravens (08:18) Are the Titans good? (20:01) The Rams’ woes (27:16) Bryce Young benched (35:02) Derek Carr’s success (49:28) Caleb Williams’s struggles (55:05) Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Nora Princiotti, and Steven Ruiz Producer: Troy Farkas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's up? It's Ryan Rosillo. I'm the host of the Ryan Rissillo show on The Ringer and Spotify. We're a sports podcast. We sprinkle in some other stuff. But here's the thing about our podcast. We work in sports and we still like sports. I know. Crazy, right? But we also like to balance it out a little bit. If I've read a book that I really like, we'll have the author on. We have people from the biggest TV shows, some of the biggest people in movies, writers, actors, all of it. And, of course, at the end of every single episode, 20 to 30 minutes on life advice, which is sometimes. great, and sometimes it isn't. But it's always worth listening to. So make sure you listen and follow the Ryan Rusillo show on Spotify. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capadia here. Fun show today. We're splitting it up. We've got my friend Nora Princeati in the first segment.

We're answering one big question. I'll tell you what that is in a second. And then in the second segment, Stephen Ruiz jumping on to talk some quarterbacks. Bryce Young gets benched. Caleb Williams, just getting destroyed behind that Bears offensive line. And then Derek Carr, the surprise of the early season. So we'll check in on all of those guys. Nora Prenciotti to lead us off. How are we doing? We're doing great, Shiel.

Nice to be with you. Yes. We're going to do one big question. We're going to try this out every week. One big question every week. And the big question this week is which O and two teams can still salvage their season. I feel like if you've created any type of time, of NFL content this week, you've had to include the O and two nugget in your piece.

I've done everybody has done. Everything I've read, it's in their last three seasons. 21 teams have started O and two and two have made the playoffs. Which can I tell you something that I think is funny about that? Yeah. And I'm guilty of doing this too because we all do the thing, right, where we say, you know, oh and two, it's tough to come back from since the 90s. It's about 10% of teams.

And then we all offer the qualifier, but it's probably not the death sentence it used to be now that we have the new playoff format with the extra wild card spot. And now I think over time that's going to bear out to be true, right? Statistically, that should almost certainly be the case. The funny thing about it is that it's like 10% of teams that have done it going back to the 90s. It's 6.5% since they changed the format. Fewer teams have actually done it. But we hope that over time, it'll even out and it'll be a little bit, a little bit easier. But that's my nugget about the O and two nugget.

All right. I'm just going to have to go with one more nugget on the O&2 nugget because the other one that the nerds will point out is that it's not that you start out O&2. It's if you look at, if you lose back-to-back games throughout at any point in the course of the season, their percentages are pretty similar, which seems weird. Like I don't believe it, but then the nerds show me the charts and the tables and I'm a fellow nerd. So I look at them. And it looks to be true. Like, if you lose games in weeks 11 and 12, it's kind of the same as losing games in weeks one and two. We just don't, you know, we don't say,

hey, only 10% of teams that lose back-to-back games in weeks 11 and 12 make the playoffs. So, yes, there are some caveats, but I'm with you. You know what? I don't believe the numbers. I feel like some of these teams still have a shot, especially like you mentioned with the extra wildcard spot. You're going to be in it to the end, just win some tie breaks and be on your way. So, all right, let's get started here. Give me one team. One team that you think can still, we'll just go one by one, one team that can still salvage their season despite the O and two start and why you believe it. So the one team that I actually feel pretty good about saying, like, you know what, it's no big deal, is the Bengals. And it's for two reasons. One, all of our

great nuggets about O and two, they do go out the window a little bit. once you factor in the circumstances in the division. And, you know, I haven't seen enough in the first two weeks to convince me that this isn't still a race between the Bengals and the Ravens in the AFC North. I think as long as, you know, the Steelers can be atop the division with two wins and a single touchdown. It's not particularly convincing to me that that's going to remain the case. So in a sense, you can look at those two teams and say, okay, it's basically O and O, right?

Like they're, in terms of winning the division, they're even with each other. Obviously, a completely different situation once we start to talk about playoff seating, but I think they're both doing okay. The Bengals, to me, are in a better spot of the two just because it feels like the arrows pointing up. We've seen them get off to these bad starts, and that first game against the Patriots was just everything looked off. Joe Burrow did not look comfortable.

But then I think in week two, they, looked so much better. And yes, you lose a close game. It's disappointing because of the rivalry with the chiefs. But I just think you come back to the fact that that's a tough opponent, obviously. And then you look at a quarterback who looked just eons more comfortable in the pocket than he did against the Patriots, more effectively spreading the ball around. That's even, they're still without T. Higgins.

That's going to make a difference. I just found myself encouraged by the Bengals in week two. even though it's a loss. Whereas for the Ravens, it goes in the other direction, right? Because you lose by a toe in week one, okay, it's the Chiefs, no big deal. You know, no shame in that. But then once the sample size goes to two games, I find myself more feeling like, oh, gosh, I don't know if they can get where they want to go with this offensive line.

So because of the circumstance in the division, but then more importantly, because I think they're trending in the right direction and because they're issues in terms of getting another top target in there for the offense and trusting Lou Anoramow to work some magic with the run defense, I just think their problems are more solvable. So that's my pick, the Cincinnati Bengals. We've seen them do it before. They can come back for Mo and two. Yeah, they're at top my list as well. I feel like the Bengals defender on most of these episodes, but I'm on the same page as you. You mentioned the borough thing. I was thinking, you know, like I was the felt like I was a voice in the wilderness after week one that I thought he looked pretty healthy.

Now, I know my parents probably preferred that I would have gone to medical school. Not that, you know, they're not a shame that I'm here podcasting with you. I'm sure they're proud of that too. But maybe all these Twitter doctors, do I need to start a second handle? You know, I mean, they were, I didn't see anyone else saying Joe Burrell looked okay. I don't know. That's a crowded field, Ted. It is.

I know. Yeah, I think I'll stay out of that industry. But occasionally maybe Dr. Capati is going to show up to the Ringer NFL show and just be like, his knees fine. Don't worry about it. You're all out of your mind. He didn't hold the water bottle weird. Yeah.

Maybe it's a midweek show segment we'll incorporate here. But I think you laid out the case well for the Bengals. Now, the margin for error for all these teams is going to be much slimmer than you would like. You know, you might have a weird game where you're a big favorite and you have a couple weird turnovers or a call doesn't go your way. And now all of a sudden, you can't dig out of that hole. But, I mean, they've lost two games by a total of seven points when you look at it. And you mentioned it. Burrow played well last week.

You get Higgins back at some point. Amarius Mims, the first round pick. Hopefully you get him back at some point. You would think the young pieces on defense would continue to improve. You already saw them play pretty well last week against the Chiefs. And the other thing is I like to look at this site, unpredictable. It basically just looks at the betting markets and does strength of schedule. And they have the fifth easiest remaining schedule in the NFL.

So that's another thing working in their favor. They're actually minus 130 to make the playoffs. according to Fandu, it's more likely than not, according to the betting markets, that they're going to make the playoffs. So anything can happen. I'm not giving up on my preseason Bengals hype. Just Joe Burrow, just pick up those water bottles. Make sure you're doing that okay. And I think they're going to still have a chance here. The other team you mentioned, the Baltimore Ravens is a good one, I think, to move on to next year. I kind of feel the same way you do. Like, I was doing this exercise. And at first I'm like, oh, yeah, Bengals and Ravens. And then I'm like, I'm not totally there with the Ravens that they're going to be okay.

I mean, you touched on it earlier, but just kind of where are you? I know you said they're kind of trending in the wrong direction. Is it just the O line that has you concerned? Is it other aspects of it that you say, I don't know if they're going to be able to bounce back from this. It's primarily the offensive line. And, you know, when we talk about the Bengals comparison, there's one unit on the field. on Sunday for the Bengals that looked non-viable is strong, but looked pretty poor. And that was their run defense.

Then we talk about the Ravens, and in particular the right side, but that offensive line, that did look non-viable to me. And if you ask me, what do I feel more confident in that Lou Anorumo is going to be able to, you know, maybe there's a street free agent kicking around who's got the size, who can shore up the middle there, that they're going to be able to figure out some way over the course of the year to be a little bit more stout against the run versus that this Ravens team that already had to work pretty hard to figure out a way to replace in the way that they've done it, three starters on their offensive line from last year to this season is going to find significantly

better options to upgrade this unit that I think as it currently stands is squarely between them and getting where they want to go. Like, I do not think that this can be a Super Bowl team with the five that they have on the field now, although I guess it's kind of six because you're getting Roger Rosengarten in a right tackle rotation there. And I actually think he looked the better of the two between him and Patrick McCarrie. So maybe there's something that they can do there. What we've heard from Harbaugh in the press conferences is fairly adamant against making

changes there. I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to try something different. My worry with them is just that we've seen in back-to-back weeks an elite pass rusher for an opponent, Chris Jones in week one and then Max Crosby in week two, being able to just completely knock them out of what they want to do and to wreak enough havoc that they have to become this like super vanilla predictable version of their offense. And I think it, you know, it's why Derek Henry hasn't, hasn't been what people hoped that he would look like. It's why you're seeing, you know, Lamar Jackson either have to shoulder more than maybe you want him to in the quarterback run game, but then also just not be able to be the explosive playmaker in the past game that they're hoping that he can be.

It's just, it's getting them out of all their stuff because they don't want to run play action. They don't want to do anything that takes a long time to develop. They can't get the push in the run game. And then any time those guys who are top level pass rushers want to say, I'm going to run on a twist or a stunt or do something where I'm going to attack, you know, the right tackle or the right guard, they're ruining a play. And I would love to say that they've got Dallas coming up and the Cowboys haven't

looked that great against the run so far. Maybe they can get back into their bread and butter there. But like, you're telling me that this, that Micah Parsons isn't just like, you know, yummy, yummy in my tummy, like let me go here. Every time you meet an elite pass rush around the other team, it's going to be a problem unless they fix this. And so that's what makes me really worried about them. Yeah, that was the big concern going into the season.

And it's proven true through the first two weeks. I mean, your point about Lamar is a great one because I just wonder with a sort of less talented or a quarterback who's not able to solve problems. Like, what does this offense look like the first two weeks? I mean, we're not happy with kind of how good it's looked with Lamar Jackson, but he's sort of raised the floor where if you plugged in just like a mediocre, slightly above average guy who didn't have the skill set to escape, it might be really, really ugly for that where we're saying, no, this playoffs, give me a break. This team has no chance to field a good offense with the pieces they have right now. So that definitely feels like the number one thing. And there's, there is a bit of a weirdness around this team right now.

I mean, I didn't watch that game live, Raiders, Ravens, and I caught up yesterday. and just some of the stuff, I mean, like, they had a third and one while the Raiders are coming back where they try to run the old push push with their tight end, like under center and Derek Henry's in the, Derek Henry was going to push the guy, and he gets called for a false start. I'm like, give Lamar Jackson and Derek Henry.

Why are we giving someone else the ball on third and one? So that was weird. Special teams, I think, is a big one. Like, I don't know. I might put that under the offensive line because it has been such a strength. If you just look at their years under John Harbaugh, you could bank. You're getting a top 10 special teams unit.

A lot of years, you're getting a top five special teams unit. Justin Tucker struggling on these long kicks from 50 where it just feels like every other kicker in the NFL is automatic from that range. And then they had a terrible pun in that game. That was like a key play. It was a 24-year-old pun with the Raiders coming back where you're just like, man, you're not used to seeing this type of stuff from the Navy. About team, too.

Yeah, exactly. That's his strength. They've invested resources with those guys. So that's weird. Defensively. Here's what I will say. Just to give a little positivity to, you know, if we have Ravens fans listening to this. I don't think the Justin Tucker thing is a big deal.

I think that's getting overblown a little bit. I think it feels like a big deal because we're watching the last days of a goat. It's dramatic. It's maybe even a little emotional. The thing that makes me feel like they're going to be okay. is that it's just strength, right? And I'm not an expert on kicking mechanics, so I don't want to oversteak.

I am. I'm Dr. Capadia. You're Dr. Capadia. The plant leg, what happens? No, go ahead. Sorry. But he's still accurate from shorter distances. It's not like one of these things

where a kicker gets the yips and you're lining up from 34 and just feeling like this could go any which way because things are messed up. He, even last season, when the long range stuff was starting to take a, turn, he was really accurate from inside 50. And he's five for five so far this season.

I think it's pretty much as simple as them understanding that when they're playing for field position, that's his range. That's where he is right now. And maybe that makes them be a little bit more aggressive on offense. Maybe there's a little bit of a silver lining there. I'm trying to be optimistic here. But I don't think it's a huge deal. It's unfortunate.

Used to be a strength now because he doesn't have the distance anymore. and also because we're just seeing kickers start to regularly make these super long kicks, it feels different. But I think they can, if you tell me the Baltimore Ravens have to go all season long with Justin Tucker needing to be inside 50 to consistently make field goals, I say, okay. I think it's okay. They can still be a competitive football team.

It's a good point. It's going to be such a small sample, even the times where you're considering a 50, you know, 52, yard field goal versus not. And like you said, there is a case where this makes them, if they are aggressive in those spots more. Now, Harbaugh in the past has been very aggressive in recent years, not as much, but that might actually help them if they're going for it a little bit more. So there's just a bunch of stuff there. I mean, their schedules a lot harder than the Bengals just because of the schedules from the beginning of the season. They have

the sixth hardest schedule. And then the last thing I would flag for the Ravens is just the amount of big plays that they've allowed. They've allowed 11 plays of 20. plus yards so far the season. That's second to only the Rams. Now, some of that was Devante Adams was just, man, he was incredible in the second half of that game on Sunday. So you're not going to face him every week. But there's just kind of like a little here, a little there at the same time. They've won, what, 75% of their games with Lamar Jackson coming into the season. So I'm with you. They actually also have their minus 132 to make the playoffs. So their odds are actually better than the, almost identical, but a little bit better than the, but a little bit better than

Bengals. So the betting market still say most likely outcome is that the Ravens, Bengals get in the playoffs. So there you go. And I don't want to overstate it because there is, there's sort of this weird dynamic where did you watch that Harbaugh press conference where he like goes on a long thing about Ben Cleveland hasn't shown us enough in practice to change. I was, I read the quotes. I didn't watch it. No. He really spent a lot of time just being like, this guy stinks in practice, which felt weird tonally to me, but that's okay. I don't quite know which way to look at it because he seems adamant that they're going to stick with the guys that they have. And I'm not saying that I think Ben Cleveland is the salve to all of their wounds right now.

They do have things they can do. They have levers they can still pull. And I do. I thought Rosengarten looked better. Even in the one-on-ones where he ended up against Crosby, I thought he looked better than McCarie. and he played 18 snaps. So maybe that increase, like there are things that they can do

that they haven't tried. And they're in the same boat with the Bengals where it's effectively O and O in the division between the two contending teams. And so I don't want to go overboard on the worry here. I just, I would rather be Cincinnati than Baltimore right now.

Yeah, no, and those young offensive linemen, to your point, Rosengarden, those guys you would expect them to get better as the season goes on. They are young players without a lot of experience. Their next three, Ravens are going to be in the spotlight here the next few weeks. I mean, at Dallas, then you get the bills, and then you're at Cincinnati for your next three. So all of a sudden, the urgency for this Ravens team kicks up a notch here early in this season.

All right, let's take a break. We come back. Now's when it kind of gets interesting. I had a feeling you were going to say Bengals and Ravens. I had Bengals and Ravens. After that are any of these teams. I do have a weird one for you. What a great tease.

All right. We'll get to that when we come back. Kick off this NFL season with a win on Fandul, America's number one sports book right now. All customers get a profit boost every single NFL game day. That means you can pump up your gridiron winnings multiple times a week. Fandul has tons of ways so you can get in on the NFL action. You can bet on money lines, spreads, player props, and more. You know, after this episode, I'm going to go take a look at that week through.

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at sportsbook. Fandwell.com. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. We're back on the Ringer NFL. Nora said she's got a weird one for us. Here, I guess I can just read the teams,

first of all, so that everybody knows. The remaining teams that are 0.2. The Jacksonville Jaguars, the Indianapolis Colts, the Los Angeles Rams, the Tennessee Titans, the Denver Broncos, the New York Giants,

and the Carolina Panthers. All right, out of that group, Nora, who do you have who can still salvage their season despite the O&2 start? So this is my weird one. The Titans are fine? Wow. On my Google Doc, I just have a line crossed through the Titans,

so I want to hear this. Let's hear it. Now, look, if we're talking about who we gave our own two nuggets, right? We've done our due diligence on that. odds are, at most, one of these teams is going to pull this off. So, definitionally, because we've already talked about two teams, I don't really think that any of these teams that are left, right?

Like, they probably won't pull it off and make the playoffs. However, here's what I have to say to you is that through two games, I think the Titans look better than I thought they would. Their defense has been pretty good. Their 10th in EPA per play allowed, and they've given up the fewest yards in the, league, were it not for two particularly boneheaded moments by Will Levin? That's true.

And I can't even say it with a straight face. So that should tell you something. But without those two ill-advised laterals, it's possible this is a two-and-o team. And that I would not have seen coming, certainly. So part of this is the benefit of relatively low expectations. But I think the fact that this defense looks genuinely pretty good is enough of a feather in their cap. They're going to get a little bit of help on offense when they get Hopkins back in there. I do think they can probably find a way to get the quarterback to stop hallucinating when he senses pressure.

Maybe. Maybe. Which makes me feel like, you know, they're in an okay spot. they've got some things going for them. I didn't think the Titans going into the season had a lot going for them. So if I'm Tennessee, like the only point that I'm trying to make here

is that I feel if anything marginally better about the Titans than I did two weeks ago, which is kind of shocking, given the fact that like they've been memed into a fine pulp. I like it. Great curveball.

Again, I just have a strike through them for like four teams at the bottom of my dock. I'm like, we're not going to get to these teams. He's not going to bring up one. of these teams that can salvage their season. So there's some data that would back up what you're saying.

I mean, if you just look at turnovers as a bit random, they've lost the second most EPA on turnovers of any team in the NFL. Now, I don't know how random they're going to be when Will Levis is your quarterback, but those were, you know, particularly devastating turnovers that, yes. I mean, those were works of art. Like, let's be honest about what we're talking about here. That was a special, special level of, like, evil Josh Allen behavior. Yes.

Look, I still see a lot of Carson Wentz and Will Levis just when I watch him play, like the 2020 version of Carson Wentz and beyond that. So, yeah, I mean, those plays, like you said, you could still turn the ball over a little. Just don't like, don't make them that bad. I mean, they've got to crush by these turnovers the two weeks here. And in each of those games have still been one possession games, to your point, they've lost both games by the exact same score 2417. I mean, against the Bears, they have the lead for most of that game.

And then, you know, the Bears are not moving the ball offensively held to what under 100 yards passing. And they still find a way to lose that game. And then this game against the Jets, I mean, they were right there late in that game. So I'm not going to get all the way there with you. But I think it's a good team to bring up that you're probably right. Just in terms of competitiveness, they've been a little bit better than I expect. Now, Will Levis has been pressured at the highest rate of any quarterback in the NFL.

And sometimes it's like one of those where I swear I was watching one play on Sunday where it's like, where did he go? Like there's just this huge surrounding of offensive and defensive linemen around him. And you're like, I don't hear a whistle. And then he kind of squeezes out. And all of a sudden he's running and taking off and looking for to inflict your pain on someone else. So it is an entertaining style of play, if nothing else. Let me ask you this.

I wanted to actually get. Brian Callahan, how do you feel about sort of the, how he's handling it? Yeah, his vibe is weird too. It's weird with, like, all right, fine, you're on the field and we know, I'm sure you've seen the clip by now. He's yelling at Levis after that turnover. I get that. But even in like the press conference, you know, you know, it's just like, you

know, I'm so glad you brought this up. Every time he tries to explain it and tries to be like, you know, we're good. I just was, I was in the heat of the moment. He ends up being like, and I mean, you guys thought it was. insane. Like, how could I not react to it? It was the worst play I've ever seen in a football field. Yeah, it's, uh, I don't know, maybe it's no big deal. Maybe you like a little old school. I, it did, it rubbed me the wrong way a little bit. Because I, I, I went from like a Dan Campbell story where, you know, he's taking complete responsibility saying the coat. And I know it's a different

situation, but he was just like, I cost the team with what happened to the lines at the end of the first half. And then I click on a Titan story. And it's like, Callahan, uh, turnover was dumb. He knows he can't do that. same thing as last week. And I'm like, geez, man, this is a young quarterback. You're a first year head coach. It felt a little harsh to me. Maybe I'm being a baby and I should toughen up. I don't know. It's also like, of course he knows. You know, Bill Belichick is going after him and explaining all the ways that it was a horrible play. It's all over social media. Like, there's no way that he doesn't know that that was a major fuck up. Right.

Will Levis is going to be Will Levis. Yeah. So, you know, to me, why I feel reasonably okay about him is that, yes, it's happened in more dramatic fashion, but the things that have gone wrong, I had a little baked into the pie. And then there have been some pleasant surprises on top of that. But I agree with you that you got a young quarterback who's probably going to make some mistakes, who's probably going to make some mistakes, who in particular, when he feels pressure, tends to make some questionable decisions. And as a head coach, you know,

figuring out how to coach that without sort of catastrophizing it is probably paramount. And I, I too have, some of his quotes have stood out to me too, not because I think it's like bad or awful or anything. I just think he keeps sort of accidentally doing the thing over and over again. Yeah. I'm keeping my eye on it. just that Titan situation and how it proceeds throughout the course of this season.

All right, were there any other teams you wanted to get to here? Did you have one more that you thought maybe or do you want me to run through quickly the ones I had written down that maybe we could see them salvaging their season? Yeah, you tell me who you've got. Okay. Honestly, I don't feel good about any of these. But if we're going through them, the case for the Jaguars would be that they've lost two games by a total of eight points.

Now, they've scored 30 points, Nora, in two games. Do you want to hear the teams that have scored fewer than the Jaguars through two weeks? It's the Broncos, Giants, and the Panthers. That's it. And so I was just, now, I got sucked into the Jaguars in the preseason, so I might not be a reliable narrator here. But if you would have told me, hey, Brian Thomas Jr.

is going to make some plays right away. They're tied for the most explosive plays, 20 plus plays in the NFL through two weeks. I'd be like, oh, things are probably going well there. But no, they stink in the red zone. They do dumb stuff. They've had bad turnovers and they've lost two games. So they got a big one coming up on Monday night against the bills, but that was one.

I flagged a little bit. And then the other two to just kind of take a look at. I mean, I don't think it's going to happen for the Colts. I think they'll be entertaining. But I just, it's hard for me to picture a scenario where the defense plays well enough and Anthony Richardson is consistent enough where they would go on a heater and come back and make the playoffs. So I had them written down, but not a team. I really think it's going to do it. And then I guess the Rams are a cross-off. I mean, they probably just reached the point of no

return here. Cooper Cup is now out. Jonah Jackson is going to miss time. Puka Nakua is out. They've already got other offensive linemen on IR. Their kicker even has a groin injury. I just saw. So I think they could be a little frisky. They still have staffer. Their tackles are now back and healthy. So you put that together with McVeigh. Maybe they have. have a little bit of a chance, but it's an uphill climb. Any of those teams peak your interest a little bit? It sort of should be the Jaguars, but I'm just, I feel fundamentally done with them. Yeah. Because it's, it's like, I can make you the same arguments that have been the arguments for over a year at this point, which is just like, Trevor Lawrence should be better at playing quarterback

than this. And Doug Peterson should be better at designing an offense than this. But Red Zone, huge issue last season. They were 28th in the league last season. And then they come out through two weeks and I think there are three touchdowns on seven trips or something like that. Like it's a problem again. The whole thing has looked disjointed

and uncoordinated and like they don't have a clear identity for so long that I just, I can't bring myself to make the argument, which is just like these people should be capable of more.

but they haven't done it in years. So I'm kind of throwing up my hands on that one. Also, they've got a tough schedule, especially coming up, too, including that Bill's game. The Colts are an interesting one for me. The problem for me is actually not just that I think Richardson is going to have to go through some growing pains and have some ups and downs.

It's more just that the defense at this point is really hurt. Samson-Ebucombe Torres-Akeleys during training camp, uh, juju brentz is on injured reserve. And then Buckner and Latu both went out against Green Bay. So that to me just means that you've got a young quarterback who's taking some lumps and trying to figure it out. You're probably going to be in some bad game script situations.

You're not going to have a defense that, you know, can get you back on the field quickly. And I think Richardson probably just would need to be in a, better situation to maybe be able to pull it together. So I think they'll have an interesting season. I just, I, I, I, that's not a team I would bank on to come back from O and two. And I'm with you on the Rams. I mean, I want to put all the faith in the world. And, you know, as long as they've got McVeigh and Stafford, things are going to be okay. But for all the nuggets about O and two, the nuggets about O and three are, are worse. And there's a lot of info that basically says that that's a

death sentence. And you're telling me that this offense without Puka, without Cup, and with the current state of the offensive line, this offensive line, is going to have to go up against the 49ers defense and come out alive in week three. I just don't think it's, I don't think it's happening. Like I, you know, Dibo's out, Christian McCaffrey's out. There's injuries on the other side too. But I just think in terms of being able to keep Stafford standing on his feet and doing what he does, I just don't see how they're going to be able to do it. And then once you're in that three-game hole, it's just, it's a real tough battle to climb out of that. So, you know, if it were a longer season, it's the type of group that I would want to put some faith in.

But I agree with you. I think they just, the season's kind of over before it started because of the amount of injuries. Yeah, they invent, I mean, their whole offseason was, hey, invest in the intest in the of this offensive line to give Stafford kind of a good pocket. And that's where they've been killed by these injuries. So that's tough for the Los Angeles Rams. All right, there you go. Sorry to the Panthers, the Giants, and the Broncos. We're not going to talk about how you can salvage your season from an 0 and 2 star. Nora, before we let you go, I understand we've got a pretty fun, interesting special episode coming up on the Ringer NFL feed involving some storytelling

telling about Aaron Rogers. What do you got for us? Yeah. So I've been working on this piece for a while. It's dropping on the feed on Thursday, ahead of Thursday night football with the Jets and the Pats. It's a piece. It's called The Curious Case of Aaron Rogers.

And I just, I really wanted to take a look at essentially his last three plus years because I just find it so fascinating the way that his kind of identity and the different parts of culture that he's, reflected have bounced off against various, various factions of the NFL world writ large. Like I am particularly into the sort of moments when football ends up being this prism of the world beyond it. And I just think Aaron Rogers is a really interesting look into that. So it'll be up on the feed. It's 35 minutes or something like that. It's just, I think it's an

interesting way of thinking about some of the biggest stories that have popped up over the last few years. And I think it's fun. Like, that's maybe a weird word to use when we're talking about conspiracy theories and all of this drama and stuff. But it's, it's, I tried to have a lot of fun with it. And I think I ended up feeling just like it was, it was interesting to delve into some different worlds. So I hope people will listen to it. Nice. Can't wait for that. I will be listening to it. Yeah, it's, I mean, I think some people forget. There was a long time where we knew like nothing about what Aaron Rogers thought about anything. And then all of a sudden, we know everything that Aaron Rogers thinks about. Well, and that's, that's, there's a good chunk of the piece that has to

do with that. And it was fun to kind of go back and do the, do the forensics of it. Awesome. Everyone check that out on the ringer NFL feed. Thank you to Nora Princiotti. As always, we'll take a break. We'll come back. Welcome in Stephen Ruiz and talk some quarterbacks. Thanks, Jill. Welcome back to the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capati here, joined by my friend Stephen Ruiz, who is just deep in. I mean, is Tuesday just, are you? I mean, when do you actually start ranking the quarterbacks?

When do you stop watching the quarterbacks? Take us inside the process a little bit. Yeah, so the process starts Monday morning when I wake up when the film comes out. And I just try to grind as much as I can until around, I'd probably say like 9 o'clock, Eastern time on Tuesday. That's when I usually lock in the grades. That's usually by the time I have most quarterbacks watch that I wanted to watch that week. But yeah, I'm always filling in gaps, though.

Like later in the week, I might fill in some gaps, watch some guys I didn't really get to dive into the film with. And then I'll update their score and you won't see that reflected until the next week. Now, are you doing like third downs? Are you doing specific filters or are you trying to go full game? No filters. I'm a completist. Yeah. No, just dropbacks, though.

I'm not watching like run game. I'm not watching the whole offense, you know. I don't have that much time. I know. It's, yeah, it is just from the, from like that time we finish our pod on Sunday night until sort of Wednesday morning. It's just like, all right, how much, how many opinions can I form? How much analysis can I do so that I'm ready?

And then all of a sudden it's like, all right, week three, the matchups. Right, right. Who's even playing in week? All right. So we're going to talk about three quarterbacks today. The first one's pretty obvious. One of the biggest stories of the week, Bryce Young, number one overall pick. last season, two games under Dave Canales.

He gets benched, I think, his career with the Carolina Panthers is most likely over. And I feel like it's interesting because there's a bunch of different directions you can go with this store. You can go coaching, ownership, what they did to trade up for him. You can go with the quarterback himself. What was your sort of biggest takeaway? You predicted it months ago on a very popular podcast on the Ringer podcast network that this was, was one of your takes that Bryce Young will get benched for Andy Dalton and Ruiz, it happened two weeks in. So what was your big takeaway here? I mean, my big takeaway is that this thing was destined

to fail from the very beginning. I think the Panthers outsmarted themselves. I think all of us probably outsmarted ourselves a little bit. It's a 5-10, 190-pound quarterback in a league that's dominated by the biggest, strongest, fastest athletes in the world. The idea that this was going to work was a long shot to begin with. And, I mean, you could bring up the counter examples. You get to, You could point to Drew Breeze. You can point to Kyler Murray. You can point to Russell Wilson. But those guys were exceptional athletes in their own regard.

There was something exceptional about them. Kyler Murray is exceptionally fast. He has an exceptionally strong arm. Russell Wilson has an exceptionally strong arm, and he can use it on the move. And he was exceptionally quick during his prime in Seattle. And then Drew Breeze, we've never seen a player at that stature operate in the pocket like him.

We haven't seen it since. We didn't see it before then. So the idea that, like, Bryce Young, could follow in those guys' footsteps without an exceptional trait. Like, no arm strength, like not an exceptionally strong arm. He's quick, but he's not fast. He's not big. He's not a great runner.

There just wasn't a lot there to kind of, you know, latch into and kind of pin your hopes on. And I think we saw that. And then this last game on Sunday, it was rough to watch. It wasn't his worst game from a statistical standpoint. Or maybe it was. I don't know. It was. Yeah, it actually was if you go by like success rate.

I think it was the worst start. of his career because I looked that up for the thing I wrote today. So yes, it was his worst start statistically. Yeah, for me from like an evaluation, like a pure evaluation standpoint, it was the worst film I've seen from him since he came into league. Like he didn't look like a viable NFL player, not just like an NFL starter. Like it looked like they brought someone down from the stands and said, hey, go and and play a couple snaps. He was jumping to get a checkdown off, to throw over his offense line. And it happened four times in the game, including on a fourth and two, where he has an open checkdown for the first down

and he throws it in the back of the center's head with the jump included into it. So, like, I get the pushback against, like, cutting the court too soon. But I don't know. When you don't have it, you don't have it. If there's nothing there to develop, you can't develop it.

I think that's one of the biggest things that's changed from now to say, I don't know if it's five years ago, 10 years ago, especially how much rookie quarterbacks used to get paid. You were just like, we're sticking this out and you would just stick with a guy forever. Now we're saying we're,

We saw it with Stack Wilson and the jet. And this is even sooner that, like you said, it's not the end of the world. Here's the thing. Like, I don't believe that we should draw any conclusions at all. You can never trade up for a quarterback. Or even when you're like, at some point, you kind of are going to have to talk yourself into something. Like Andrew Lux of the world only come around every so often where you're just like,

I don't know, this feels, everything here feels pretty good to me. And you can pass and pass and pass. And then you end up like the Arthur Smith Falcons where you're starting Desmond Ritter and you haven't taken a quarterback in three. years and you're fired that way too. So I think a big point is this is really hard. Like, it's hard to evaluate these guys. If anyone knew how to do this and had like that secret formula, they would be getting paid a lot of money. You have some of the smartest people in the NFL. I mean, think about what the 49ers did. I was thinking about this earlier today. They traded up for Tray Lance.

And it's like, no, no, Kyle Shanahan had actually wanted Mack Jones. All right. Neither of those would have been probably great outcomes. And think of what they gave up for that. And this is the guy who's like the best offensive coach of the modern era. So it is tough with all those respects. But I'm with you. When I watched that, it was just, it's uncomfortable to watch Bryce Young. It has been,

and this past week was the most uncomfortable. It's been, and so, like, just putting him back out there, it's not, he's not getting anything out of those reps. Like you can say he's getting experience, but it's just, he's not, the rest of the team isn't. You have a new coach, a new culture.

And so I don't have an issue with moving on. You take a swing. It doesn't work out. you move on, you take another swing. That might not work out. You move on, you take another. That's the only really way to do it, the way I see it. They drafted a left tackle in the first round.

They splurged in free agency to fix the interior line. They drafted a wide receiver in the first round. They drafted a wide receiver in the second round two years ago. They brought in Deonté Johnson. They bring in Adam Thieland who has been a good player since he's been there. I know a lot of people like to point to him and be like, oh, look, he's throwing to Adam Thielen, but he's been the best player on the offense for two years. I don't think we can make fun of them anymore.

this is a good supporting cast. He was the least pressured quarterback of the week last week on Sunday. I don't know that it's a good supporting cast. They used all those resources, but some of these players think that they got. I mean, we'll see. We'll get a natural experiment now with Andy Dalton.

You're right. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I think it'll look more competent. I could see it reaching like a mediocre, like respectable level. I do agree with that. I agree with that. Brice Young was, he was a problem.

It's not like just everything around him. But I don't know. There's a point. It's still not a great situation. Good was a strong word on my point. It wasn't this like a bomb. It wasn't this abominable, no win, like no chance to succeed supporting cast. Like they poured resources into it.

It wasn't like they neglected it either. It wasn't Cam Newton. What Cam Newton was. This is a better supporting cast than Cam Newton had with the year that he won the MVP, based on receiving court at least. Ted Ginn was his number one receiver. Like that's worse than anything he's dealing with right now. So like, and I think he got plenty of time.

When you look at some of the busts, or not even some of the bus, I'm looking at like the worst quarterbacks by EPA that have been drafted since 2000 and what they did over their first two years, he had 686 dropbacks. Josh Rosen had 579, and he was done after one year in Arizona. Achilles Smith had 303. I don't think he played very much in Cincinnati. I don't even think he really got to start. Blaine Gabbard had 786, and he was done in Jacksonville.

Zach Wilson's another one, Cade McNow, Joey Harrington, David Carr, Kyle Buller. What's the theme with this? None of these guys rebounded. It didn't matter how much time you gave them. They were in the league for five more years and it never looked any better. Sometimes when you know, you know, and I think right now, like, we know. There's nothing that suggests that Bryce Young can turn this around. I poured through his stats today looking for one split, one split that I could look at and be like, look, this is what he does well. The one thing I could find was under center play action out of the pocket. So basically bootlegs. And there's a problem with that. One, you have to be in certain game scripts to be able to run that over and over again.

If you're down by 20, you can't get under center and run play action. The defense isn't going to respect it. Two, his worst split is under center with no play action or under center with play action where he remains in the pocket. So if you do go under center, the defense knows what's coming. Either you're running a boot or you're going to run some of the worst stuff that he does. So it's really hard. It's really hard to craft an offense around this. I kind of feel bad for Frank Reich, who was kind of dealt this hand. He didn't have a great supporting cast. He got, what, like eight games to build this thing, and it didn't work.

And I don't know, Dave Canales, I feel sorry for him, too, because David Tepper doesn't have, you know, a long leash for these coaches. Yeah, I mean, to your point, the numbers are actually worse than I think people like Brace Young. I like Brace Young, so he doesn't get crazy. If he was a jerk or something or, you know, it was really arrogant and his team, I think you would be getting credit. the stats are really alarming. I mean, just coming into the season, I looked at it before the year.

36 rookie quarterbacks had at least 200 dropbacks as rookies. And he ranked 33rd in that sample in EPA per pass plan. To your point, the people in that grouping, it wasn't like, oh, they got a lot better after a couple of years. And that's the problem with, it's only two games, but he looks as bad or worse than he did last year. I mean, we just said it. That was his worst game, both I test film statistically, that he's ever played. And this was after an offseason of trying to do all these different things. So, you know, I think he'll get a change of scenery and maybe, you know, try to be a backup somewhere with like maybe a quarterback guru and you'll see. I mean, there are worse ways to make a living than if you can hang around as a backup for a while.

He obviously had a great college career. But yeah, I don't, I don't fault them at all for pulling the plug. I don't think you were accomplishing anything by putting that version of him back out on the field. Now, you mentioned the other characters here, though, which are worth touching on before we move on to Derek Carr. I mean, is your, is the radar up on Canales at all that you had the entire offseason just to, and he actually got, and that Bryce Young actually got worse with this, you added Deonté Johnson, you added offensive linemen, and it's the worst he's ever looked, or is that like there's just not anything you could deal? I guess there is some concern. It is concerning that he looks worse. Yeah. With a better supporting cast, like that has to

fall on somebody other than him. I don't know, maybe he did actively get worse during the off season. I don't know, but it's unfair to kind of, you know, evaluate a coach with a quarterback who, like we had said, like, just wasn't playing viable football. I don't know what plays do you call for them that work. There just isn't any. Yeah. And then Tepper's the other aspect of this. Like I mentioned earlier that it's not the end of the world if you miss, you know, like they might have the number one overall pick next season. I don't know that it's the best draft for quarterbacks, but still, you know, you can do stuff with that draft capital and position yourself to get a quarterback.

But this Tepper thing, I mean, if you look at the situation and Joe Person from the athletic has done a lot of reporting on this, that Dave Canales, after the game says Bryce Young is the starter. The next day is when they announced that Price Young is being benched for Andy Dalton. And when he's asked about David Tepper's like role in the decision, he kind of declines to give a straight answer on it. And it's just like, Tepper hasn't made a good decision since he's become the owner. He's been a train wreck. He's been a disaster. Every aspect of the organization. organization has been an absolute mess. I cannot talk about him without mentioning that the guy is so insecure that he sees a sign outside a Charlotte restaurant and has to go in and removes

another man's hat off his head because he's so insecure. So like if this were another organization, I would say, all right, you know, it didn't work out. It's okay. Move on. You know, you can try again. But with the way Tepper is, it just reminds me so much of the Daniel Snyder team. It's not the off-field stuff. He doesn't have any of that stuff. But just in terms of of do you trust this guy to manage your organization? He's the worst owner in football right now. I like, okay, let's ignore the off the field stuff because that stuff made Daniel Snyder

maybe the worst owner of all time in all the sports. Yeah, no doubt. Maybe Donald Sterling or whatever has a shout there. But at least with Daniel Snyder, and I grew up in Washington, like I grew up around this team. My family were Washington fans.

I've seen this ownership like throughout it. I remember the beginning of it. I remember the end of it. Snyder was like a fan who was a little too passionate. and a little too involved, he grew up a fan of the team. That's not David Tepper. What David Tepper's problem is, one, he's impatient, as we have seen with his coach firings, which transcends the NFL, like his MLS coach, he fired his very successful

MLS coach because he owns the team in Charlotte after one year also. And then the other thing is that he seems to think that his experience in the business realm applies to every situation in the NFL. And you can hear it when he talks about it. He says it in press conference. I'm not like reading between the lines here. He comes out and says it. And I think that's another problem.

And then the third issue is he seems to want to do things in a way where he gets credit for it. Like it's not enough just to do like the traditional way. When a Super Bowl, like every other team is a – he like wants to do it in a smart way. Like he hires Matt Rule and gives him six years without interviewing very many other candidates. Remember those narratives? It was like he wasn't walking out of the room without a deal from Matt Rule. Okay. How'd that work out?

Yeah. And then he has like, he drafts a five-nine quarterback because of like S2 tests and like how he's dealing with parties and with like a business crowd and like how he's dealing with that. What he's ordering for dinner. The fact that he ordered scallops and salad, he wasn't afraid to order a small guy meal at the team dinner. Like it's, it's nauseating to me. Like it's a different thing from Snyder. I think Snyder was just like a well-meaning fan who just was in over his head and didn't know how to run a football team. I think David Tepper thinks he knows how to run a football team.

better than anyone else in the league. And he's just going to make decisions based off that. Yeah, it's grim. It's grim for the Panthers. We'll see what happens with Bryce Young. But like I said, they might be the favorites for the number one overall pick. All right. On a brighter note, Derek Carr, I have made fun of this Saints team, this quarterback,

this coach, all off decent, basically, you know, I listen, if you want a big apology from me, Saints fans on the ringer.com, I let a, let a column with the Saints. so it's all there. But man, through the first two weeks of the season, they're doing some narrative busting in New Orleans. He's chucking down field. He's making plays under pressure. What are you seeing from Derek Carr?

Is it sustainable what we're seeing from the Saints so far this season? No, that's the thing that stood out to me, especially from the Dallas game, was standing in the face of pressure, holding onto the ball, drifting a little bit in the pocket to get a throw off. But I'm going to punt the brakes because I was with you on Sunday.

You remember I was there. I was like, oh, yeah, we were talking crap about Derek Carney. He's showing us. He has seven dropbacks on third down this year. Seven. He is using play action on 52% of his passes. Crazy. By far the most in the league, yeah.

Only 41% of his attempts, his dropbacks have come in what True Media calls, like, passing situations, which is second and medium plus or third and long, or third in medium plus also. It's only like 40%. you look around the league. No other quarterback has enjoyed this environment where you're getting like the easy. He's playing on easy mode. He's playing base defense.

He's playing single high coverages. He's passing on first down when the defense has to worry about the run. He's only faced pressure on 19% of his attempts. We've seen this Derek car before. We've seen him be an MVP candidate. We've seen him be a Pro Bowl level player worth a record-breaking contract in Oakland.

And there's always like a common through line there. Great pass protection. And he doesn't have to think too much under pressure. He hasn't had to think too much under pressure. Like even what I'm giving him credit for, like drifting away from the pressure to get a throw off, he's staring down the same route the whole time. He's not like processing while he's doing it. Until I see that, I'm going to remain skeptical on Derek Carr. I'm going to assume he's still that same guy that throws it away on fourth down and checks it down in Hail Mary situations. I need to see it under pressure on third down when the

defense knows you're passing the football. Yeah, I mean, that's probably the, honestly, the smart take your Saints fans wouldn't want to hear that, and nor should you care if you're a Saints fan. Be excited. They're much better than you thought they were going to be. I thought they were going to be. Saints fans thought they were going to be all those things. But I do think it's a good point.

He's 33 years old. You know, like we've seen a lot of Derek Carr offenses and a lot of Derek car football. Think to your lifetime, when is a guy, a different guy at 33 years old that he's been the rest of his career. So I do think Clint Kubi, I mean, Clint Kubiak, the way, it's been a highly schemeed up. They've done a great job of giving him answers. Like you mentioned, staying out of those difficult third and long situations. They're running the ball well. They're using play action at a high rate play action on early downs, all those things to give him opportunities to push the ball down

field. So again, is this going to work throughout the course of the season? I mean, I thought their offensive line coming into the year, that was the biggest reason why I was fading the Saints. I mean, they got a rookie at left tackle, and they had Trevor Penning, who it looked like, can he even be a player in the NFL at right tackle? And so far, things have held up well. Again, it's a combination of all the things. Guys playing better than you expected, not the scheme, all those different things. But I'm kind of with you.

It's two games. Let's like every year after two games, we're talking about something. And then a month later, we're going, man, that was a weird conversation we had after week two. So it's not to say it's going to turn into a train wreck. Like they're two and oh, their favorites to make the playoffs now in the NFC. just like, it would still surprise me if this were like a top five offense. I mean, right now, their first in success rate, first in EPA per drive, 11 touchdowns on the season. I mean,

he's been pulled to both of these games for a backup because they've blown out these other teams. It's crazy. So I do think it's the best example we've seen, though, of kind of when we talk about offensive coordinators and play calling, how it really can make a difference if you have someone who changes from one way of doing things and says, hey, let's try these different things, whether it's motion, play action, the screen game, whatever, to make life easier. Because they do look like a very well-coached offense, especially on Sunday. Yeah, that's why I would be excited if I was a Saints fan. No matter what a pessimist like me is saying about it, the truth of the matter is that he's

going to be in this offense all year. And they keep providing him with these environments, which I think Clint Kubiak is capable of doing, regardless of the game script. He's going to play some good football. He's going to play some productive football that can get you where you can reasonably expect to go with his team, which is like a wildcard team. Like hosting a playoff game, I think is a very reasonable expectation whether Derek Carr is playing like this or not. I just, yeah, I think we're too quick to kind of give quarterback's credit for changing who they are when we're seeing them thrive in a situation that we've seen them thrive in before.

Like, I'm not going to get excited about Baker Mayfield because he's throwing in rhythm and he's playing efficient football. I saw that in Cleveland. The question is what happens when that gets taken away, because it's going to get taken away. NFL and the other guys are really good and they get paid a lot of money. What happens then? We haven't seen that yet. And until we answer that question, we cannot say that Derek Carr has evolved. Yeah, I think that's true. I think we're on the same page that we would give more credit to the coaching and the scheming around Carr than Carr for their credit so far. That's not to say he hasn't played well. He has played well. But I think the other factors have been a,

have been bigger factors in the reason why the Saints are two and O and playing so well. All right. that's Derek Carr. And then we finish with Caleb Williams. I don't know what the sort of temperature check is in Chicago, but they've scored one touchdown on 22 possessions. Again, this is probably not going to be a Caleb Williams conversation. Maybe it is. I'll see what you have to say, but it's probably more, a little bit more about the other stuff there. What do you see from Caleb Williams? That was another game that was just hard to watch on Sunday night. They had no answers. Nothing was working in structure. Are you seeing some bad habits from Bulliams? Williams, did you blame the coaching, the supporting cast?

Where are you with this Bears offense that is off to such a slow start? I think everybody deserves a little blame for different reasons. Like, I'll start off with saying Caleb Williams is not throwing the ball accurately right now. The first game, he was overthrowing everything. The second game, he was leaving everything short. Maybe in the third game, that would be the Goldilocks game where he gets just right. And we see his best game. And he was so accurate in college.

I mean, he was like a robot. That's the most concerning thing. And we have seen some good accuracy on like the quick game. Like when he's throwing those quick outs and they get their. It's like a laser and it hits the receiver right in the hand. Like, we've seen some good accuracy. But until we see, like, that good downfield accuracy, there is reason to be concerned about him.

In terms of, like, the other stuff, which I've seen, like, I saw Luke Keekely said, oh, he needs to get rid of the ball. He ranks in the top five in average time to throw or the top 10. Like, he's not running around unless he has to, unless he's feeling pressure. Against the Texans, he faced a lot of pressure. And that was the issue. He was able to find answers under that pressure, but he wasn't able to make the throws under pressure. And that's where I'm concerned.

It's not his reaction to pressure. It's the ability to make accurate throws under pressure until that fixes itself, which I think it's going to. Like, yeah, I don't think he's going to be playing good football. But now let's talk about the supporting cast. This offensive line is somehow worse than it was under Justin Fields. Like I've seen a lot of people bring up Justin Fields. Oh, Justin Fields was dealing with this. Why didn't you guys defend him then?

They're 30th and pass block win rate. They were not 30th when Justin Fields was there. He's getting rid of the ball. They're losing quickly. And that's when you start to see the bad habits. That's when you start to see him run around. That's when you start to see him take chances and throw into coverage. If they can give him a little bit more protection, I think we would see much better football out of Chicago.

The problem is our good friend, Shane Waldron, I'm losing faith in him by the week. Like coming into the year, I was like, oh, yeah, like Shane Waldron. He was great in Seattle. He did some good stuff. They put a bunch of tight ends in the back field around cornerouts. It was cool. Like, they got some good stuff going. No, this year, he's not helping out his receivers.

He's not helping out his offensive line. He's definitely not helping out the quarterback. I have questions about him. And then I don't know if you saw this clip. It's circulating on Twitter this week. But I think it's from like around the combine. And I'm pretty sure it's JSN, Jackson Smith and Jigba from Seattle, who obviously played under Waldron last year.

And he's on like a Chicago radio station. The host is like, oh, tell us about Waldron. Should we be excited? Like, we should be excited about him, right? He's good. And then JSN is like, are we live? Are we live right now? Like making sure, like, something wasn't going to go out.

And he was like, no, he's a great guy. You know, he's a great guy. I'm sure he's going to do good things for them. He's a great guy. Which, who, that's a major red flag for me right there. I do kind of remember that at the time. I remember that circulating, yeah, in the off season. But, yeah, I ignored that.

Next time, Shield. Whenever there's those weird clips circulating in the speech, spring, make a mental note, put them in your dock for August when you're looking at teams. You think you're going to be surprised teams, but I'm with you. It doesn't, I mean, it's kind of the opposite of what we said for the Saints. You know, you can easily make the case that, hey, if this offense was schemed up like that offense, it would look a lot different for Caleb Williams. And he's been under pressure 43% of his dropbacks, which is the third highest rate in the NFL. And to your point, the time to throw is not wild. The time to throw is 2.6 4 seconds.

That's lower than what I thought it would be for Caleb Williams. as a rookie, if I'm being honest. So the game on Sunday, it's like not uncommon for a rookie quarterback to have that game. It happens all the time. It's not a reason to panic. If I'm a Bears fan, what I would be worried about is him developing bad habits because of the environment, you know, where all of a sudden we're in week 10 and we're like, well, the offensive line didn't play that poorly that game, but he was just bailing from the pocket and he was trying to create. I don't think that's like what's happening yet. But there's only so many, and it's the interior, I mean, the interior of that offensive line,

there's only so many times your center gets pushed back in your lap and you're like, I'm going to trust it and stand in. And I mean, he was getting killed. You can't take the hits he was taking in that game throughout the course of a season and expect to start every game. So that's my, that's, if I'm the Bears, I'm like, we need to have a big group meeting and be like number one priority. I don't care if we don't win games.

I don't care if the offense isn't putting up 30. This quarterback cannot develop bad habits where next summer we're trying to coach those out of him because of what we're asking him to do here as a rookie. So that that's kind of my big takeaway with Caleb Williams. Yeah, yeah. Whatever it takes, man, like if it takes keeping in some tight end, some fullbacks, some running backs and pass protection, like whatever it takes to give this guy time, like you said, to not speed up his process. But I truly don't think we've seen that yet. Like I haven't seen one of those like run around plays. We've seen those run around plays, but I haven't seen it in a situation where there was an open receiver and there was time in the pocket to avoid it.

It's usually been a survival instinct type of thing. And then if you go back and you just watch the first half on Sunday, legitimately good football from him. Like there were none of those mistakes in the first half. He played really well in the first half. So I think there's plenty to be encouraged about from the first two weeks. I know there's plenty to be kind of wary about it, especially the accuracy thing.

I can't get over the fact that he hasn't been as accurate as he was in college so far. But I don't think he has accuracy problems. It's more of a timing issue because it's on the deeper stuff when he's kind of got to float it over a defender or like throwback shoulder. That's where you're seeing all the misses. It's not on like the quick game. Like I said, like on the quick game, he's throwing it on the money. And that looks more like he did in college. So I'm holding out hope that that kind of sorts itself out.

And then Shane Waldron can figure out how to keep the heat off of him. Yeah, the touch stuff downfield for sure. It's funny. You look at the numbers. He's thrown deep at the fourth highest rate in the NFL, but they only have three plays of 20. plus yards as an offense. So that stuff tends to work itself out. You know, like there's some randomness to it. There's an ass. I mean, there was one play in that game where a dunzee ran a great round and it's wide open. But he's pressured. If he has like extra half a second, we might be like,

wow, you know, they hit on a huge explosive play. It might have changed the game, honestly, there. So those are little things here and there. You just have to figure out some of those buttons to push. And I don't know. I mean, their offensive line, it's not like they have great players who are injured right now. You know, like they don't have a lot of options. I read today, I think in the athletic that Nate Davis is struggling at guard and like, should they bring in Matt Pryor? Like, that's not going to fix all due respect.

And hopefully he earns many a paycheck in the NFL, but like that's probably not going to solve your problems, a move like that. So that would, it has to come from the coaching. It has to come from the scheme. They have to have ways to take the heat off of him again. It might not be like, I know that you're trying to win games and everyone's trying to win games, but somebody up top has to be like, this is the priority. We win games, but we want to do it this way because you don't want this to end up being a long-term problem. All right, there you go.

I think that was good. Three quarterbacks in the spotlight, Caleb Williams, Derek Carr, Bryce Young's not going to be in the spotlight much longer. But hey, listen, handsome guy, getting paid a lot of money, had a great college career. Seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. You're going to have a great life, Bryce, yeah. Maybe it'll be as a backup. Maybe it won't. And maybe you won't be working for David Tepper in a year. That's great point. You might, yeah, you might, like, maybe you're working with Andy Reid or something. I don't know.

Yeah, there could be some fun stuff. Maybe you're working with Mike McDaniel. I know our friend Benny Solst tweeted something out like that. So who knows? You could be in a great spot next year. Less pressure on you. As I say, Team CTC. The checks are still going to deposit, Bryce.

You're going to be doing okay. All right. That's Stephen Ruiz. check out his quarterback rankings on the ringer.com, Stephen Deante, and I will be back later in the week. We will preview week three, so be sure to check that. And also be sure to check out, Nora Princiotti's episode on Aaron Rogers. That's going to drop in your feed on Thursday, I believe, after this one. That's going to be a fun one to check out as well. All right, appreciate everyone listening. Thank you to Troy Farkas for producing additional production

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