The Ringer NFL Show - Which NFL GMs Have the Most at Stake in the 2024 Draft? | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

Sheil and Ben get together to survey the NFL landscape and take a hard look at some of the general managers who face the highest degree of difficulty in improving their respective teams' rosters in the upcoming draft.Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Ben Solak The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Producer: Chris Sutton Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Social: Eduardo Ocampo and Kiera Givens Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And stay Mage, everyone. Worldwide. Welcome to Extra Point Taking. Shield Capati here, joined by Ben Solac. We are now less than two weeks away from the NFL draft. I feel like every show, I need to give an update. How far away are we from the NFL draft? We're now less than two weeks at this time in two weeks.

We'll be getting ready for rounds two and three. Solac is happy about that. All right, we got a simple premise today. It's the Friday show. And we thought, you know what, what's an angle we can hit on that we haven't hit on yet? I can't ask Solac about these prospects anymore or he's going to reach through the computer and punch me in the face and go, I've already given four under takes about this guy. You can't be asking me about this now.

So we're going to do a little different focus. A very simple question. which GMs have the most at stake in the 2024 NFL draft? That was the only prompt. You can take that any way you want. I feel like I got a little sleeper where you're going to say, and then, oh, okay, and then I'm going to try to convince you that. No, no, this guy, here's why he has a lot at stake in this draft.

So we can take it any direction we want. Obviously, there are some GMs who, so lack, I was thinking about this. I mean, if you are a GM who things haven't gone your way and you feel like, you know, the seat could be getting a little warm. It's like, these three days, like, could define your career. You know, GMs generally, sometimes they do. Usually they don't get a second chance. And it's like if you feel like you really need to nail this and you don't nail this,

like 20 years from now, you know, when you're telling your grandkids about the time you were a GM, if I just did better in that 2024 drive. So there's a lot on the line for these guys. That actually, that sets the table really nicely from my first one. I don't know if you had an order in mind. I know that you and I have a househouse. All right. We'll do Capadia House Rules.

Youngest goes first. And, you know, Scrabble, Genius Square, whatever. Youngest goes first. That's very big for Lila, right? Lila's younger or not. Yeah, yeah, she always gets to go first. Huge for Lila. Absolutely.

She's going to be younger the whole time. That doesn't change, maybe. Everybody goes up by a day. That's huge. I think the GM with the most at stake here is Jets' general manager, Joe Douglas. This is really, I think. Ooh, interesting. Didn't have them on my list.

Okay. So the reason is pretty simple. Joe Douglas had the job since 2019. All right. So this is upcoming the sixth draft now for Joe Douglas. Since 2019, when Douglas took over, the Jets have gone seven and nine, third in the division, two and 14, fourth in the division,

four and 13, fourth in the division, seven and ten, fourth in the division, seven and ten, third in the division, right? So five years, we've yet to have a winning season in New York under Joe Douglas. Now, as someone who has presented Joe Douglas as being on the hot seat before, Jets fans get very upset.

because they say, hey, Joe's drafting great, and they're not wrong. Like, he, he, he, the guy, you know, okay, 2020, Mackay Beckett in around one, Denzel Mims in round two, Ashen Davis in round three. Not the best draft you ever saw, right? Like, you know, he's had his misses. But, I mean, dude, 22, first round picks, Saus Gardner, first round pick Garrett Wilson, first round pick Jermaine Johnson. I have a very famous tweet that Jets love where I,

somebody asked me on draft day before round one, who could be fired as the results of this draft, the results of today. And I said Joe Douglas, because he was four years, this was going to be his fourth year. He had multiple first round picks. I was like, if he doesn't nail this, I could see him getting fired. And they're all like, oh, you thought he was going to get fired. Well, he nailed it. He got three first rounders.

He absolutely killed it, right? And that gives you the 2022 season. It gives you the 2023 season. And last year, well, McDonald, Joe Tipman, Carter Warren. Like, you're, well, those aren't first round picks, but you're trying to get producers. You're trying to get, okay, guys to be on the offensive line for us, guys to round out our pass for us wasn't as strong of a draft, right? And that's just a reminder that even the best drafters.

Joe, that's amazing 2022, then kind of come back down in 2023. So I do think Douglas is an above-average drafter. But overall, you have to acknowledge that just being an above-average drafter does not a winning team make. And so for Douglas, I feel very similar to Douglas in 2024, as I thought about him before 2022, where it's like, okay, if he nails this and they continue, like, they've made good reagent moves,

they've had good draft picks, they've had early-round guys hit, they've had late-round guys hit. If he nails this, then maybe you're in New York and you're thinking about, okay, we move on from Robert Sala, but we keep Joe Douglas around. We give him another chance to figure out quarterback. He's so good at finding pass rushers. He's so good at finding weapons. The defense's a back throw.

The back seven, like, maybe you talk yourself into it. But like the sea is hot for Joe Douglas and the sea is hot for Robert Sala. They need to win. This duo needs to win games. They have a winning season. Then you go to the playoff shield. AFC East is more getable than it was in 2019, right? the bills are starting to come over the crest.

The Patriots are on what they were. You can draft as well as you want. If you lose for six straight seasons, you get fired in New York. I don't know what you want for me. Oh, it's unfair. That's the reality. It's the NFL. It's not for long.

That's the reality of the league. So I think Joe Douglas has seat. I think his job is in the balance here. And I think that he can save it with a great draft like he did in 2022. But I do think that's what that's stake. Yeah, he's a complicated guy to evaluate for the reasons you just laid out there. Like, do I think there's a big difference between Joe Douglas and someone you would tell me, no, this guy's, you know, a top five GM in the NFL. I really don't. Now,

my longstanding thing is that there's not a difference between most GMs, and we can get into that in another show. But it's what we talked about on the Monday show, where if you miss the quarterback, that's usually it for you as a GM. And they took Zach Wilson, whereas in that year, if it was C.J. Stroud, we're probably cut right here saying, Joe Douglas is one of the best GMs in the NFL. Can you imagine if it was C.J. Stroud with the rest of this roster? I mean, they'd be set up for the best era of Jets football about. our lifetime, but you miss on the quarterback, and that's part of it. And we talked about it, that you know what? If I'm an owner, you say, take the swing on the quarterback. If you miss two years,

later, we'll try again. Two years later, we'll try again. Obviously, that's not how it works. And we understand the realities of the NFL here. So I look at the rest of the roster and I say, it's a pretty good roster. I mean, those are studs. Like, first I was going to push back on you with the Garrett Wilson, Wilson, Wilson, Saus Gardner, Jermaine Johnson one because I think too many times, yeah, it's like, If you have a lot of draft capital, yeah, you should hit more. But like, they really hit. I mean, I think Garrett Wilson has the ceiling to be a top five wide receiver in the NFL. I think Sauce Gardner is probably already there.

Like those were fantastic picks, a fantastic draft. Now, what I would ask you is that so this is about who is the most at stake in the 2024 draft. So if we talk about the 2024 season, then absolutely, no doubt, Jets are either they win and everyone keeps their job or they lose and everyone's fired and you blow it up. In this draft specifically, they have seven picks. They have two in the first three rounds. So I'm wondering, like, how much of an impact can this draft class really have in one year when they've got veterans and boom or bust guys all over their roster trying to win right now? And really, do you see a guy, whether it's at 10, whether it's making a move up?

I suggested maybe they move up for a wide receiver in the first round where you say, man, if they get that guy, that would be a big difference maker in this one year where these guys still have their jobs. It's the exact reality that they have less draft capital that could help Joe Douglas. Because it's one thing to say, look, I found Soss Garner with the fourth overall pick and I found Garrett Wilson with the 10th overall pick. It's another thing, if he drafts the receiver in round three who becomes like the target two for them, obviously, Garrett Wilson that they've needed, right? It's another thing if he finds a Pook and Akua in the fifth round, a fourth round defensive tackle who breaks into the rotation, right? I think that, again, like, I think Douglas is a good evaluator of talent.

And there have been guys, like, if you go and you look back, like, he found Chuma Doga in the third round, Trouin, the fifth round. Now one of those guys are like huge names, but they've been in the league ever since, ever since he's likely them. Bryce Hall had a couple years of starting. Michael Carter, who's been there nickel for a few years. He drafted him in the fourth round. Max Mitchell was a developmental tackle for them.

He found the fourth round. He's had some middle round success ago. those guys who stick in the league, he hasn't had like a huge, like incredible day three. So in this draft, okay, you don't have those first round picks, but if at 10 you get like a stud,

right, like one of the top three receivers falls and then you get like an offensive lineman in the third round and fourth round who actually contributes, you can then go and say like, see, I can also do it with less draft capital, right?

If you let me, I can still bring talent into this building. We just have to get quarterback, right? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's a thin argument, right? Like, you have to have some degree of team success this year to really be able to kind of weasel your way through it. And bring this up all,

the time. But if you look at the history, chill, of quarterbacks drafted in the first round, I have the data from 2010 to 2021, which is every first round pick that we've seen at least three years from, when the first round pick at quarterback has a losing record through his first three seasons, the general manager who drafted him is fired two out of every three times, 66% of the time. What did you say a losing record? What was the stipulation? When the starting quarterback, who drafted the first round is a losing record through three seasons, right? Through three seasons, okay.

A proxy for like, okay, like, you know, you sat for the first half of the year and then you, you know, you play, like, you know, like, well, like, Desmond Ritter will have played enough games to qualify for this, but like that's kind of your floor, right? But Ritter was a third round pick. So you're looking for at least like a season of total starts over the first few years for the guy. But Zach Wilson, he's drafted in 2021. He's a losing record as, as a starter.

And his head coach is still employed and his general manager is still employed. And when you go and you look at the guys who. made it through the first three years, right? Who made, like, their quarterback was losing through three years, but they stayed employed. It's like Cliff Kingsbury and Steve Kime made it through three years of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, sure, uh, uh, Rick Spielman and Mike Zimmer, who made it through, uh, three scenes of, like Teddy Bridgewater, right?

Right. Right. Right. The names that you find of guys who survived, it's rarely like, oh, yeah. And then he really turned the ship around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. they need Rogers to be good and for quarterback to feel settled in order for, I think,

Joe Douglas to hold him to the job for another year. So extremely big draft for Joe Douglas because this year, I really do think his job hangs in the balance. Yeah, we will, they are an interesting team if nothing else. We don't know which way it's going to go. There's boom or bust potential. They have the 10th overall pick. Do they make a big move? Do they sit there? Do they draft somebody who can help Aaron Rogers right away, even though it's like as a rookie wide receiver with Aaron Rogers? Is that going to be great. Do they take a tackle at that spot and say, let's just make sure if Tyrant Smith doesn't make it through the season, we want to have someone there. Morgan Moses is old on the other side

that we want to be covered there and make sure the offensive line is buttoned up. There's a lot of ways they can go with that pick and certainly a lot riding on the Jets and you and Joe Douglas in this draft. All right. My first one, Benjamin. I've got a guy who's only been on the job for three months. And that's Adam Peters of the Washington. Oh, wow. Commanders. So, Why is there a lot at stake? Again, I'm not saying his jobs at stake, obviously. The guy's been on the job for three months. But I remember a conversation we had back in December about how the commanders were in great shape to rebuild cap space, draft resources. And since then, they hire Peters, then they strike out on a couple of head coaching candidates and Ben Johnson and Mike McDonald. They settle on Dan Quinn. I think Quinn could be fine. I think he's a viable candidate. I don't think that's the biggest deal there. Their cap space, we've discussed this also previously. They used it on a bunch of low-cost veterans on short-term deals, you know. And so you can look at it and say, did they really build an environment where a young quarterback

can come in and succeed? I think the answer is no. The offensive line is bad. I like Terry McLaurin. I like Jahan Dotson. Beyond that, you look at the offensive skill positions. It's also not great. So here's what, so they have nine picks.

They have six picks in the first three rounds, most in the entire. NFL. So they are armed with these draft resources. However, here's what they need to come out of this draft with. Number one, they need to nail the quarterback pick, whether it's Jaden Daniels, Drake May, J.J. McCarthy. That's obvious. You don't need to listen to this podcast to know that. They're the second overall pick. They got to get that right. It goes back to what we just said about Joe Douglas and Zach Wilson. If they get the Zach Wilson of this draft, it's probably not going to end well for Adam Peters. But not only do they need to nail the quarterback pick, which is what a 50-50 proposition, a 40-60 proposition, whatever it might be,

they also need to like nail picks at premium positions. Like they're not weak at, you know, like these around the edges positions. They need offensive line. Their offensive line stinks. They need cornerbacks. Their quarterbacks are not good. They need edge rushers. They lost both their edge rushers from last year and, you know, Dorrance Armstrong,

fine. They added like adequate veterans, not great players. All those areas, these are premium positions. This is where teams use their drafts. This is where you kind of need to take players in the first round if you want the elite of the elite. Not always. There's always exceptions, but most of the time. Offensive tackle, corner defensive end.

So those are two monstrous things. These are big, big asks for Adam Peters when he's been three months on the job. Now, if you nail just one of those things, if you get the quarterback, if you get this year, C.J. Stroud, everything else becomes a lot easier. You can have misses on the other stuff. You can figure it out next offseason. whatever. If you miss on the quarterback and nail the other stuff, all right, it's harder, but at least you could say two years from now, hey, we have a good environment. Let's add another

quarterback here. But I really feel like it's a weird spot where he's been there for three months and the decisions he makes in this three-day period are probably going to define his tenure. I mean, most GMs don't come into a situation where you have the second overall pick in a draft that has good quarterbacks and you have six picks in the first three rounds and you have not picks overall. Like most GMs do not come into a situation that's that good. So he could nail this. And if he nails it,

Adam Peters is going to be like the franchise savior. Move on from the Daniel Snyder era. Get your quarterback. The guy knows how to draft. You're feeling great about this next era of football. If you're a commander's fan. If he doesn't and if the commanders are trying this again three years from now, is Adam Peters making that call?

Probably not. I mean, the history just tells us to what you just told. us with the rookie quarterback stats. By the way, if you take a quarterback top five and he has a losing record through three seasons, GM is fired like four out of five times, dude. If you, if you take that early guy, like Zach Wilson is literally one of the lone exceptions. If you take him that early and you whiff, you're usually gone. Right. So that's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure that his tenure is going to come down to three days in his third or fourth month on the job. So I've got Adam Peters with just a lot at stake here. Again, it's his job immediately on the, no, I'll

Obviously not. He just got there. But if we're looking back at his tenure, two years from now, we're probably going to say what happened in the 2024 draft and everything else mattered a little. But man, that mattered, you know, like 75% of the evaluation. So there you go. Adam Peters. The other factor with Peters, I think is really interesting is new ownership, right? You don't really know yet how Josh Harris and the ownership group for the commanders is going to behave. We have this recent example of Dave Tepper and the new ownership group in Carolina where they're just jumping at shadows. And it's massive contracts and it's fill out your staff, pay as much money as you want. And then a year later, we're turning over the staff and then it's got to go this way and that way.

And Dave Tepper is involved in the quarterback decision in the room, one overall. And like, okay, the level of oversight here and the level of involvement here is kind of a mess and it's too much. And then you have the Walton Pena Group, the new group, the Walmart folks who are in the Broncos, who more aggressive, a little bit like it would seem less oversight, like being in the room and whatever, just kind of blank checking it on Sean Payton. And you wonder, okay, is that how it's going to be for the commanders where Adam Peters has a blank check and Dan Quinn have a blank check?

But the owners are, are they going to be quick to turn to redirect? Are they going to be slow to redirect? Like, you don't really know what that group is. And so you don't exactly know with Peters what stakes he's playing against. Like they might be at a spot where he goes for this draft. he takes that quarterback super early, he makes all the rest of these picks. They vowed after three years, and Jane Daniels isn't the guy who direct me as however they pick, but they still want to give him a long leash because they've seen

what Tepper has done in Carolina and they know that it doesn't work. And so the thing about Peters that interests me is kind of how he relates to ownership, right? The general manager's relationship to ownership is like critical. And we kind of tend to know how ownership groups behave. We don't yet have any of that data with the commanders. The biggest factor in do you get fired or not? does the owner want to have lunch with you? Does the owner like getting drinks with you?

Are you a good hang? Honestly, I think it's a big factor. You would never think of that. Yes, your job stuff matters. But does the owner like you personally? Does he not like you personally? He would be shocked to know just that. It has such a big impact on whether GMs keep their jobs or not.

All right, let's take a break. Come back. Get to Solex. Second pick. All right. We are back on extra point. taken. Now, see, so, like, how many GMs did you come up with for this exercise? Did you just do three? Did you say, I'm going to have a couple backups in case she'll takes one of mine. What was your process here?

I always have a backup. I'm always ready. I was a professional podcast. The preparation of this guy, young and hard, but mature beyond his years. He's always got backups. Okay. Because I've got like, so there's a guy who I feel like we're going to have to mention where I don't have him high. I'm kind of hoping you take him, but I don't know if you will or not. So if it gets to my third pick. It's very unlikely that I do. You're going hipster, of course. Personally, I'm going hipster with one of my picks. I'll tell you that much.

I was on the ringer NFL draft show, and we were talking Texans and Devon Dix Trader, whatever, and Craig Horbeck, who's one of our guys there on that show, you know, made some sort of comment about, oh, the Texark or go to the Super Bowl, whatever. And he just, he was like sideways. He was like, yeah, when all the football hipsters pick the Packers Texan Super Bowl, and in my head I was like, that's the exact Super Bowl that Shield's going to pick, and I get accused of being the hipster on the spot all the time. That is 100% shield selection for the Super Bowl.

Listen, I do like that the hipster thing is making the rounds. I do feel like if you listen to enough football podcast, you hear it more. I do think extra point taken needs to be, you know, get a little trademark on that bad point. Am I right? Absolutely, yeah. I don't want to say we invented it.

If you have evidence of someone using it as frequently as us, before we did, I'm open to that. I'm not saying, you know, we invented it. but I don't remember it here. So just a little trademark, little copyright, a little reference there when you use it. Attribution.

Okay, Solac, who do you got? Who's number two? I think there's a lot at stake for Seahawks General Manager John Schneider in this up. Oh, another one not on my list. This is good. This is good.

All right, why John Schneider? This is something I was, I was poking around the John Schneider of it all. One thing that I didn't fully process in the firing of Pete Carroll is that Schneider was general manager of the Seahawks and it was running their draft room and it had a lot of power in that building.

But he had less power than your average general manager because Pete Carroll had so much say and so much influence over personnel decisions. They were very co. They were very like, you know, it's unified or whatever. I don't think it was a, you know, an empty shirt GM. I kind of think like the Broncos, like Sean Payton's running that room. I think George Payton's like doing his job.

Like Sean Payton's like in control. It was definitely a co-thing with John Schneider and with Pete Carroll. But with Pete Carroll out of the building, it is a more traditional structure. John Schneider has a lot more say over personnel, or finality over personnel than I think he did previously when Pete was there. So the stakes get ratcheted up. Now, John Schneider has been at the Seahawks for a long time, right?

I mean, Schneider was there with Pete and with Russell Wilson, building the Legion of Boom, building a Super Bowl contender, going to multiple championship games, establishing the Seahawks, like has been there 13, 14 seasons as a perennial contender. The old guard's gone, John. Russell is not a Seahawk anymore, right?

That was kind of the defining player of the Seahawks' success in the 2010s was they found Russell Wilson in the third round, and they got that rookie contract quarterback, and they got that star quarterback, and they built around him. Okay, defensive identity, and here we go. Pete Carroll, man. Pete Carroll was identity there in Seattle.

They took a basketball hoop out of the press room, and there was a 24-hour news cycle about it, man. Pete was Seattle, Seattle was Pete. Like, this was an identifying member of the Seahawks. And he's gone now, right? That's the first negative, by the way, I've heard on Mike McDonald's all offseason. Everyone raised about Mike McDonald?

Come on, man. Leave the basketball hoop in the meeting room. I disagree. I feel like you have to. If the basketball hoop is still in the meeting room, you're just a guy who's doing a peat impression. You have to swallow the, you have to take your lumps, you have to swallow the bullet,

and you have to remove it, and everybody's going to be mad for 24 hours, and then in training camp, when you've got, you know, like, cool music playing, and, you know, there's ping pong table in the locker room. Everyone will forget about it. Okay. All right.

People, people, people, players love a basketball hoop in a meeting, but maybe you're right. Maybe it had to be move on. on, we'll bring it back. Well, no, the hoop. The hoop was in the, was in the press room. It was like, it was where they did the press was like the media got to use the hoop. And that's why everybody was upset about it.

No, no, no, no, the hoop, because I was sitting there for two years. The hoop, it was the, yes, it is a press conference room. But it's also, it's also the meeting room. Like when Pete Carroll does his podium in the left corner. And I don't remember ever being asked on. But I do know media members have been asked to shoot before. In two years, I never got to shoot a basket. Maybe my biggest regret because five on five, I'm struggling.

But if we're doing a little free throw contest, I like my chances. Okay. All right. Sorry. Oh, I thought that the media got a basketball hoop. Now I really don't care. I'm whatever. I'm over it. I mean, you go play basketball hoop wherever you like. Okay. Anyway, so Schneider represents the old guard. He represents the old era.

Now, the idea is pretty clear, right? Okay, we drafted pretty well when we built a contender and Schneider was here for them. And you run, you know, it runs a good personnel room. And absolutely, man, like that, you know, talking about you have your, your hot drafts, right? You have your huge years, right? the 2010, 2011, 2012 run is legendary, right? Russell K.Rle Thomas,

Golden Tate, Cam Chancellor in the fifth round, Richard Sherman, Byron Maxwell in the sixth round, Russell Wilson in the third round, right? They were, that stretch defined Seahawks'

success that decade. It's also a long time ago, Sheel. It was, this was ages ago. And Schneider's been drafting, I would say, above average,

for a long period of time. You said there's, you know, the differences between the top GMs and the middle of the two gems. I generally agree with you. I do think Schneider's, has shown that, like, he diverts from draft board, the standard draft boards,

and generally is more right than he is wrong. But if you go and you look at like, man, that 2022 class, right, like that when those rookies came and it was Charles Cross and it was Kenneth Walker and it was Rieke Wollin, we were like, man, like he did it again, Abe Lucas. This is a, this is a defining class. And all of a sudden in 2023, Rieck's starting to get benched. Lucas is getting hurt, right? The draft Charbonated to spell Zach Walker.

Like, it doesn't, it never looks as, as neat. as it does, you know, you're wondering, guys are all going to be great. Remember, development is not linear. And so right now, like, while I think they've got some exciting young talent in the building, the Schneider can point to and say, hey, like, I've been drafting well, you can't hang your hat on it nearly as strong as you could in the past. And a big part of that reason is the quarterback question. They are committed to Gino, but they've always felt like they have a little bit of,

like, their foot out the door with that contract and, like, figuring things out, those rumors that they're looking at at quarterbacks this year. And they're trying, you know, maybe move on, whatever. You have a new head coach, new, new offensive. defensive coordinator. If Seattle's just like third in the NFC West this year, clearly stuck behind the Niners, the Rams are passing them once again. The Rams are doing it with like an entirely new roster. They've turned everything over so fast. You do wonder if ownership was ready to move off of Rossner, ready to move off of feet, are they going to just continue to have unmeasured patience,

unlimited patience with John Schneider? So I do think that for Schneider, he's got a show now that he's capable of rebuilding a contender now with the new coaching staff. Something he hasn't done at any point in his career. A lot of stake. Yeah, it's the Carol Schneider thing is very interesting to me because really, you can look at the last 10, 15 years and it's probably been the most, like the best coach GMs. What a healthiest. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't last that long. It never lasts that long. There's always something goes wrong and someone gets blamed and then, all right, who can get to the owner first and somebody gets fired and the other person and we talk about power struck. That's very good for content. It's team content. I enjoy the backstabbing and the politics in the NFL

as much as anyone else. That one lasted a long time, longer than pretty much any other one. But then Carol gets fired and really, even at his press conference, when he's saying, I'm out of here, he's saying like,

well, you know, now Schneider's going to find out what it's like to have, you know, or it's like, yeah, it's his time to have the final say. Now,

I do think some of this is a little overstated. You were making your, I don't buy a face. Yeah, I don't think Pete Carroll was coming in on every draft pick saying, this guy, but I want that guy. I actually think, you know, like, I'm sure there were times where he overruled Schneider or used that final say. I think Snyder has been, and his staff have been running

the show for most of that. Now, I could be wrong. Well, we'll see if there's more information on that, depending on how this thing goes. But I sort of reject the notion that like, all right, now, you know, Schneider gets to do his job where he wasn't able to do it before. He's done it. And to your point, he's done it pretty well. I mean, they've had a lot of winning teams. They move on from Rossin, they're solid the next year and they're right back in the mix. Like they haven't had that, you know, three and 14 year or whatever, as most teams do. So it's an interesting situation for that. And also because the ownership situation is so weird there.

Like you have no idea, really, what the ownership thinks, what they want to do, what their plan is. The quarterback situation is weird, to your point. So, yeah, I would agree with what you said. I'm generally bullish on the direction of the Seahawks because I think the Mike McDonald hire is going to be good. again, that could look stupid. A year from now, two years from now. I like that. I like the offensive coordinator higher.

The cupboard is not bare in terms of talent. I think they're going to be able to do more with less. I think they're going to be able to develop young players. Having said that, it's hard to replace a guy like Pete Carroll, who you just aren't going to have, you didn't have a lot of losing seasons with Pete Carroll as your head coach for a long, long time. So I think that's a good one.

They're a hard team. Like, what do you think, what do you want them? If you're a Seahawks fan, what do you want them to like come out of the this draft with? What are you sort of is it just, hey, get the best available player? Is it, hey, take a swing on a quarterback at some point because Gino's in his mid-30s? Is it addressed this certain positional group or side of the ball? What's your sort of thought on this is what a good John Schneider performance would look like? I want to feel good about quarterback leaving this upcoming season, right? And now back in a look of a couple of different ways, right? I could see a

season from Gino where I'm like, oh, heck yeah, I think. And I feel like for me personally, I feel like I've seen that season. I understand for Seahawks fans, there's more uncertainty. And I think certainly for the Seahawks brass, there's more uncertainty. But if that's, hey, we draft the multiple offensive linemen. We fixed the interior. And we got two healthy tackles out there. You know, Lockett's a little bit healthier. Smith and Jeeb would take the next step, DK, whatever, like, whoever it is receiver-wise that kind of contributes. Running game is good. And then, all right, I see like a full excellent season from Gino. Bang. Cool. Great. If that ends up being, hey, like, you know, Sam Howell got out there for six games and really looks like we

got something to develop there and like, you know, we can go and draft a bunch of young talent on offense. You can bridge it. Sure. It's, hey, they draft the guy in round two, round three, right? And then it's a camp comment. It's, oh, we see that young guy to develop and like, we get some reps from him and they're starting to transition that.

Like, whatever. I can look different ways. I will most likely feel good about their quarterback situation if and when it's, it's, it's geno based because Gino's, I like, think Gino's that a lot better than how. I think he's better than a mid-round rookie is going to be. But that's what you want to walk away feeling like, all right, like, we did the, like, we did Gino post for us and the initial like dawn of that was cool this was this was this is less worse than we thought this is better than we thought but then over the last couple of years it's

been like all right Gino's like a solid quarterback is he enough on a veteran deal to like be be lifting you to the Niners level no and so you have to be as a front office and general manager both investing around him to build a supporting cast necessary to win with the caliber of that guy which like you know they took Smith and J win the first round they took cross in the first round they are doing that And also, at the same time, taking some of those swings behind Gino, taking some of those low-risk QB-2s and seeing if you can hit some gold on another Russell Wilson. They're approaching it the right way.

Just you need to feel like you're coming around the bend with that. You're coming to a decision on that. And I think that they can get there. The tackle's got to stay healthy. And then a wide receiver is an interesting one. Lockett's old, D.K's Mercurial. Smith & Jig was young. There's a world in which we come out of the 20-24 season for the Seahawks

and we're like this team's receiver room is terrible. Jake Bobo and notwithstanding. There's also a world where we come out of it and we're like, this is great, like, DK and Smith and Jake over for the next four years. So that wide receivers at the spot where quite the question marks pretty big. Do you use Bobo the same way I use Bobo? Depends on how you use Bobo. All right.

So it's like, you know, you have the, let's say, Coca-Cola, right? But then you might go to the grocery store and they have the generic brand of Cola. That's the Bobo Coke. Like, that's Bobo. Come on. That's Bobo Coke. you can't be buying the bobo. Now, some stuff you can buy the bobo,

but there you can't buy the bobo. No, you don't use the like, you're giving me a look. It's like the generic, like sort of the budget version, the knockoff version, sort of an established brand. You would say that,

that's a bobo. Oh, yep. I have a post on R slash GenX saying, does anybody else use this terminology? I didn't ever use the term anymore was really popular in the late 80s, early 90s.

So honestly, honestly, I do use a good number of terms. from that era. It is a fair question. I never heard Bobo before, but I do, I do like things.

Whenever I'm like, oh, that's the Kmart version, I feel bad for Kmart. I feel like I'm something wrong with Kmart. Love it. Kmart lives in Kmart in college. Kmart was important to have been. And so I,

Bobo, maybe I'll start to integrate that. I like that. Like instead of Kleenexes, my wife got these like tissues that are supposed to be a little more environmentally. Oh, the bamboo ones.

You got to. Oh, you like those. Okay. My dog, you know, my kids. The environment show. Big fan of the earth. You know, they told, mom got,

the bobo tissues. How are you going to get the bobo tissues? We need the good tissues back. These are killing my nose here. So there you go. That's another way. The bobo is very prevalent in the Capadio household. I'll tell you that much. I will always buy the bobo brand of something. And then I will always be confused when it breaks sooner than I think it should. At all 100% success rate on buying the bobo brand of something and getting mad in nine months when it's not working anymore. And being perplexed as to how that happened. So you like the bamboo tissue. That's interesting. You know, I don't mind the bamboo tissue. Because here's the thing.

When you have a little facial hair and you blow your nose, what happens is the tissue bits for non-Bobo will get stuck in, like, the mustache. And then I come on, like, I have to go to the mirror before every bud to make sure I don't have tissue bits in my mustache because that happened. And I don't even have a mustache, but just the scrub. That happens often. And so if you go, Bobo, I find the bamboo ones. It actually doesn't get stuck there. But now Bobo is just meaning anything that is not Kleenex, right? because the

Yeah, I actually don't know. Are those cheaper or not? No, the bamboo ones are inherently, they're like a little more expensive, little more eco-friendly than. Oh, really? Yeah, absolutely. So they're not bobo.

Okay. No, yeah, exactly. It does, I do think, generally speaking, it has to be cheaper. Assuming that's the one she's getting. The non-cleanx tissues that I get are the bamboo ones because of hugging the trees. No, it is bamboo.

Bamboo has definitely been mentioned and I didn't understand it at all. Sustainability, baby. All right. I'll stick with the bamboo. All right, there you go. Seahawks. But listen, it's the last two weeks before the draft.

It's a Friday. If we want to talk bobo tissues, we're going to talk bobo tissues. Seahawks have seven picks in this draft. The NFL conversation is the bobo stuff. The real brand stuff is the tissue conversation. I 100% agree. I 100% agree. Seahawks have seven picks.

Only two in the first three rounds. We discussed it on Monday. John Schneider likes a move back. This year you move back. You get more picks. You try to bolster that roster. We shall see. All right.

Second, on my list is the New York Giants. And your boy, Joe Shane. The Giants. Good reminder of your point that success in the NFL is not linear. The line is development is not linear. You put a different noun there. Yeah, yeah, that's true also. The darlings of the NFL, Brian Dayball, you know, everyone,

they got a great head coach. They made it to the divisional round right away. they're in good shape. This is a team on the rise. Now they are a team that looks like to me to be kind of a mess. I mean, this is Joe Shane's third offseason. And if you look at the roster, Solac, like who are the blue chip players on this roster? Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence, Andrew Thomas. And if you like Kavan Tibido and you want to say Kvon Tibido, you can throw him in their Solac says no, if you're a Giants fan and say, yes, he is, all right, whatever. You can say maybe he'll get there. I know, I know, I'm not a Giants fan. If him is arguing for Kewon

Tibido right now. That's not them. They're not. They don't like a cave on. You think giant fan is saying Kavon Tibodos overrated? The sack numbers don't reflect the level of play. Yeah.

I mean, like I think that like the sack number last year was nice, but I think that, you know, a lot of that was empty calories. I think it was inflated. I agree with that too. But I was just saying,

if you want to say he's a player on the rise, fine, go ahead. Everywhere else. I mean, it's kind of a mess. They're bad at wide receiver. They drafted Evan Neal, seventh overall in 2022.

He's played poorly. and been injured. It's hard to find a position group other than defensive line. If you want to say off ball, linebacker, fine. That's above average. Like, that's it on the whole roster. Defensive line, everywhere else you look. You're like, oh, boy, they could really improve anywhere here.

They screwed up Daniel Jones's contract, which this is not revisionist history, our show. We have receipts for us being wrong about a lot. We at least were on the same page with that one that, no, this is what the franchise tag is for. You don't need to do more than this. They signed him to a four-year deal with two years. guaranteed money. They lose Sequin Barclay.

And then again, they miss on that top seven pick in Evan Neal. So they've got just six picks in this draft. Three in the first three rounds, but they do have number six overall. And what they do there is probably a little under the

radar subplot, in my opinion, of the top 10. Could it be a Malik Neighbors team? Yes, that would make a lot of sense. Add a little juice to that offense. But what happens if J.J. McCarthy is still on the board? Do they have, you know, which direction do they go here? And do they have enough resources in this one draft to really upgrade the roster?

Do you know what they're over under is for wins next year? So lack? What would you guess? You probably know. Seven and a half, six and a half. Six and a half, nailed it. And the under is minus 142. Like, this is not expected to be a good team.

And if this is a bad team next year and then a team that has no answer at quarterback, what do they do with guys like Mike Ravel and guys like Bill Belichick out? there on the open market. So I don't think they can whiff on six. And I also think this is one of those like job security for GM type picks where I don't know if you draft JJ McCarthy, do you feel like you bought yourself a little bit of time? Maybe do you just take the best player available in neighbors and say, no, no, we need to win some games this year.

And you add neighbors to our offense and he's going to make a big difference. Maybe you go that direction. But I do think one way or another, Joe Shane and really this entire regime from front office to coaching staff. They've got a lot at stake here in this track. Yeah. This is a good one. My initial thought was like, do they really?

Because like, okay, let's play most likely outcome. They don't draft a quarterback. Daniel Jones plays. Daniel Jones actually stays healthy for like 14 of 17 games, which might not have been most likely outcome, but just help me out here. They go eight and nine. Is there going to be,

do you think there's going to be big front office turnover? Eight and nine, they might be able to talk themselves into running it back, but I do think it's a pretty low floor team. I mean, over under six and a half. Again, six and eleven, I don't think anybody is probably coming. I could be wrong. It could be a situation where they say coaching change, not GM change. I mean, they could go in a number of different directions depending on how ownership feels about those guys. But I do think there's some sort of change if you go under if you're winning six games next year.

Yeah. So, right, if they bottom out, but I really do think like, You said the lack of blue chippers on the roster, and that's accurate. But I do think that they're, like, close enough to 500 if they get healthy Jones. If they don't get healthy Jones, then you just, oh, it's the second year of Jones being hurt. What am I supposed to do? Dang, like, Drew Locke. Anyway, I need a draft new quarterback.

So, like, there's a way to stave this off for another year, right? There's a way to kind of, you know, I don't think Shane C is super hot just yet. With that said, this goes back to the number one job, is keeping the job versus winning. championships. Like, if, like, you know, the Giants right now, if you're Joe Shane, like, all right, the objective is to win championships, you'd be taking a quarterback at six, right? Because you're not winning championship of Daniel Jones. But if you want to buy yourself another couple years, the general manager of the Giants,

I think you can do that pretty easily. It's not hard to argue your way through that, especially because, like, you know, Davel's the guy who kind of gets the criticism because Daibald is such a big personality and then Daibler was like, you know, openly warning with Whitmorendale. Yeah, with their coaching staff. If you want, if you, if you're Joe Shane, you want to keep it sweet, keep it quiet, be the second biggest problem in the room. You can be the second biggest problem in the room, no problem.

So I do think that like Shane's got outs this year. I don't think this is like a kind of a, you know, this goes one or two ways draft. I think that he can, you know, get it down the road a little bit. I mean, that was so good. I was, it made me think so. Like, could we, could we have like a shadow GM advisory business as an offshoot of extra point taken?

That's what this podcast is as far as I'm concerned. It's public. There are 32 general managers listening right now being like, right, number one job is to keep the job. That's this big for us. I guarantee if Joe Shane, that's the best advice anyone could give Joe Shane is like, just lay low, man.

If this thing goes badly, there's another guy who's going to be doing stuff that's going to get a lot of the attention where you don't need that attention on you. Whereas if you're Brian Dayball, you could be like, yeah, the reason I'm mad is because look at some of the, look at these players.

Like, I don't got a lot on this roster right now to work with. So you could really blame both guys. There's a wonderful manager and mentor here at the ringer's name is Connor and Evans. And he gives me the same advice every time I'm, like, freaking out, which is like, okay. Stay off Twitter. Yeah, get off Twitter. Go outside, stretch, drink water.

Right? He always like, it's like, you want to solve your problems as like a little internet boy, a little pocket bugger boy, go drink some water, go breathe some fresh air, get off Twitter. And he's always right. And it's, if I were the Connor and Evans of general managers, I always bet, listen, trade the picks, trade back, don't take a quarterback, keep it sweet. This isn't hard. If you want to solve your problems of the GM, trade back.

Don't take anybody, don't draft anyone important, and they keep it sweet in the building. Let somebody else be the issue. You can hold on to the job for a long time. Maybe some 20, 25 draft picks, you know? So you say, no, you got to let me stay on. I just moved us back and look at these picks we got for 2025. Listen, if we, if we won your soft reload, okay? You got to say the word soft reload.

Soft reload is very important. That's how they know it's a reload, but it's not going to hurt as much. You like soft reload over competitive rebuild? You say competitive rebuild to add to the media. But to the GM, you can't, or to the owner, you can't say to the owner what you say to the media, because then he'll think you're just treating him like the media. You've got to have a little different terminology for him, right? And that's how you keep it sweet.

So listen, it's going to be a soft reload. We're going to tell us it's going to be a competitive rebuild. We're going to, you know, get some future picks. You know, we might be bad this year. And then we're going to build it out from there. And then you come up for an excuse for a reason why that bill didn't work. And then you just kind of keep cycling it. Pretty good.

I would agree, by the way, that, uh, stretching and going for a walk is really, I mean, nothing is going to make you do, you do those things every day. You know, what I could tell my younger self, that would be it. So I think that's very sound. By the way, on the Ben Solex scale of general managing, right, where the, we're not grading by, did you build good teams? We're graded by how sweet did you keep it? Chris Greer, first off the board, baby. Chris Griffiths did the general manager of the Dolphins says 2016.

Think about everything that team has been through since 2016. Think about the coach. Think about the coaches employed by that team, the quarterbacks deployed, the Stephen Ross, losing first-round picks, everything. Chris Bure, the whole time, has been staying and making decent picks. Just staying and making solid selections and just get, just keeping it sweet. Love of Chris Greer. I guarantee Stephen Ross likes having a lunch with Chris Greer, to my point earlier.

Chris Greer has been in the Dolphins building since 2000, Sheal. He's been employed by the Dolphins for 24 years. Out of boy, Chris. As I was preparing for this exercise, the dolphins have six picks, two in the first three rounds. Absolutely. And listen, and listen, you know, making the trades, this is kind of, this is what Mike wanted. Like you said, we needed Tyree Kill

to make the offense work. You know, so what had to be done? He actually can blame his owner for getting picks forfeited for trying to tamper. So he's in a good spot. As long as you don't bring that up, you're probably in a good spot there. All right, so there you go. Joe Shane. All right, we'll take one more break. We'll come back with our third picks.

All right, we're back on extra point. Taking, what do you got? What's the last one? I think this is a pretty big draft for Falcons general manager Terry Fontenow. All right. Ooh. Yeah. And I think it definitely feels like you went heavy on like the quarterbacky guys. And I was really, I was choosing between Fontano and Viking general manager, Questado Fomento,

I think this is an enormous. That's my third one. Yeah. We have to mention him. We can't not have a conversation and not have him. And I figured, I figured you had him given the way that you took Peters and you and you took Shane. I think I can go Terry and then he'll go quest and we'll be good. here's the thing about Terry.

Terry said, I've been the general manager with Alkins says the 2021 draft. In 2021, he had a top five pick, top 10 pick, four overall, he took Kyle Pitts. All right. And then in 2022, they had a top 10 pick. They had eight overall, and they took Drake London. And then in 2023, they had a top 10 pick, and they took Bejohn

Robinson, eight overall. It's 2024. Terry Fontenow is the top 10 pick. All right? This is his fourth draft is at a top technically a top eight pick in every single one, all right? We got to win some ball games, Terry. We got to win a division.

The Shield, the Falcons haven't been to the playoffs since 2016. This is one of the longest active playoff drafts we got going on right now in the league. This is Panthers-level stuff, all right? They have not made the postseason. And it's not like, oh, at four, they took an edge and then an eight. They took a guard. No, they took a tight end, a wide receiver, and a running back, and they just gave Kurt Cousins $45 million.

Danny Haifitz, the ring NFL draft show, made this point. We were talking team needs. You don't realize it until you actually sit down and look at it. The Falcons are one of the most invested in offense teams in the league

with three top 10 rookie contract picks at offensive weapons. We have a $45 million quarterback. They have a home-drafted, second-contracted extension, right tackle, a home-drafted, second-contracted, right-guard, a home-drafted, third, fourth, whatever.

Jake Matthews is on contract at left tackle. They have a second-round. pick and left guard. This team is, every single offensive position is built with a sort of pick slash contract that implies that this is a good player

at the spot. We got to win some ball games. All right, we have to go to the postseason. And also, again, on his second coach, right? Terry, 2021, joined the team with Arthur Smith.

Falcons moved on from Arthur Smith, right? And Arthur Blank, and like it was kind of like a big thing. You know, is he going to do? Is he not going to do? Arthur Blank's emotional at the press conference. Like, he really was buying

what Smith and Fontenot were selling him. Now, Fontenoste, right and and I get it, I understand it. I go and I look at these drafts, man. You're 2021, looking at picks in the first two days. Kyle Pitts into Richie Grant into Jalen Mayfield. 2022, Drake London and Arnold Evacady

into Troy Anderson into Desmond Ritter, into DeAngelo and Malone. That was five picks in the first three rounds, Shail. Evocati might be a starter. Drake London is definitely good. Troy Anderson's like coming along. I, the 2020, Bison Robinson, Matthew Berger on, Zach Harris, I like that. Clark Phillips in round fourth, that was good.

But it's not like like, Fonthoros been like smashing home runs. Like, oh, we got to keep Fonteno. If the Falcons sign the Kirk deal, they go and they get the new head coach, a new offensive coordinator, they have a fourth top 10 pick. And this team can't unseat the bucks? I'm very worried.

As a longtime investor in the Atlanta Falcons, as this podcast very well knows, and it is time to actually win some ball games. So I think there's a lot on the table for Terry Fonson, making these picks that he's made with the expectations that he's created for himself, time of the Falcons to win this division. Did you say four straight top ten picks or was it top eight picks? The same.

Top hits was four, Drake London was eight, so four straight. That's crazy. If they pick it eight, they'll be four straight top eight picks. When does a team have the four straight seasons of a top eight pick? I mean, you really got a suck. do that. That is, that's, and like, yeah. Now, I will say this, Fontino could use the little Schneider-Carroll thing here, I think. Now, I actually don't know the situation there. How much was that Arthur Smith say? And let's, no, no, we got to get this. Like, you were picking offensive players.

I'm sure he can use that in the background. And maybe it's true. Maybe it's not true. I don't know. But yeah, now he is obviously running the show. He stayed Arthur Smith out of here. And now you have a new head coach there. You just signed the quarterback, which is what I think the owner wanted do, which I've mentioned before. The owner was saying, no, I'm not watching one of these crappy quarterbacks play football for me again when I'm sitting in the box and I'm coming down to the sideline in the fourth quarter. I cannot take it anymore. I don't care what it takes.

Go get me a competent quarterback. And they did that. But yeah, you mentioned all those resources. And in my head, I was thinking, like, where do I think this offense is going to finish in 2024? Like, I think they're above average. I don't know that I would have them. I'm definitely not in the top five, maybe the top 10.

I don't know. So, yeah, I think you make that cousin's move because you're saying, we just want to be competitive right now. We want to win the division right now. And I actually think they have a good chance of doing that here in 2024. I don't think they have necessarily a high ceiling. But there should be enough there with good coaching with him at quarterback to at least produce a company. You know, it might take, what, nine and eight to win the NFC South.

but you're absolutely right. I mean, a four, if you think if you just whiff on this. Like what if this is like a player that doesn't pan out at all? And you have four straight top eight picks and you come out of that with Pitts, Robinson, London, and somebody who doesn't play well. I mean, I still like a lot of those players. I mean, Bejan Robertson, let's see what it looks like this year. I'm not telling you that those players stink,

but you would want more of an impact from those guys. And to your point, other than wide receiver, you have not made the picks at premium position. And that defensive depth chart. So we talked about the offense. Ooh, that defensive depth chart, Rahim Morris, good thing. He's got, you know, he has experience doing more with less. So I'll get him the benefit of the doubt.

But I think there's quite a bit of that to be done in Atlanta. So yeah, there you go. And you've rightfully asked me kind of like, all right, like, oh, John Schneider or Joe Douglas. Like, what sort of draft can these guys have that, like really, you know, kind of turns the tables for them? Like, you know, kind of decides their careers for them. The Falcons, you brought up the defensive depth chart. Listen, right now in terms of draft capital is,

projected by Tankathon. The Falcons are seventh in the league, right? They have eight overall, and they have the second rounder of 43. They have two third rounders, 74 and 79. But if their needs are like edge and corner, this is the sort of draft where we want to be able to walk away from day one going, man, Terry Fonton, they're at eight. You know that there's going to be a top receiver available. It's going to be a tackle available. He moves back. He's able to still get a guy that they would have always taken at eight. Oh, they got their Dallas Turner. They got their Quinnian Mitchell, but they got him at 13 instead of eight. And they got more capital allowed of them to move back up into the first round and they got a Johnny Newton at Illinois and they

added to the defense. There are ways where working the phones on day ones made the Falcons like get two defensive starters. Impact players using that that fourth top eight pick that you've now earned with your team badness. Like this can actually be a really, really big day if they handle the trademark well. They stay at eight and take Dallas Turner. Like come on. Let's move a little bit. They haven't moved the first. Like they had four overall. they had eight roll, they had to roll, they didn't move it once. They have not moved that pick yet. They should move.

They absolutely should. Based on how we think the draft board is going to go, unless someone awesome slips, they absolutely should be a team looking to trade back to your point, get more draft capital there in the first three rounds. You already have four picks in the first three rounds and try to get more dart throws at some of these premium positions and fill these holes. Let me ask you this. How many picks do you think will move?

in the top 10. I always overrate it. You know, you go in and you're just like, every team should trade. I will say two. I don't know what, I don't even know what the average would be.

It's probably around two. Great question. You have it. Daniel Comer, who's a fact checker and a, love a DC. Oh, DC, a pro is pro.

Head of fact checking at the ringer. I've promoted him on this podcast. Protects us over and over again. Yes. The DC's the man. I asked DC last night. I was like, hey,

like, are you able to find, how many top 10 picks trade? He was like, yeah, he can be like an hour because he's a big goat. The average top 10 move in per draft, this is Super Bowl era

is 2.7 picks move in average top 10. In the 2020s, it's an average of about three picks. It's been a little bit more. So, typically three of the top 10 picks are made on average by teams that didn't own those picks.

This year we already have one, which is the Panthers own the first overall pick, but it currently belongs to the Chicago Bears. So that counts. Okay, it's not just. this day of. It's any pick that's being made by not the team

who earns the pick with their record. I feel like, you said you always overrated. I usually don't overrate it. I'm usually like, all right? This year, man.

Everybody should be moving, okay? The bear should pick it one. The commander should pick it two. After that, the phone should be bringing for the Patriots of three. I don't know if they should take it or not.

Patriots are three. Cardinals of four. Titans at six. Titans in seven. Titans is seven. Falcons eight. Everybody should move. We should see nine trades

in the top ten. This is such a weird year for trades. Here's the challenge as we talk this through. Aside from the quarterbacks and the two wide receivers, I have a hard time identifying a prospect that a team would trade up for. Is there some, who am I missing someone? Is one of the tackles? Joel, ain't you a little Joe?

Well, Joe. But there's all these tackles. Would you want to do that? Would you say, all right, is it worth giving? Obviously, it depends how far up you move and how much you like all. But if you're like, well, there's like all these tackles that are available in the first round, We really want to move up and say, we know Joe Alt's going to be better than, you know,

the other three guys right behind him. So that's what makes it difficult for me. I could see it for neighbors. I could see it for Harrison. I could see it for O'Donzei, and I could see it for one of the quarterback. I think the other quarterbacks are going top three. So I don't know where that leaves us.

I would say I'll take the over on the 2.7. I'll change my pick from 2 to 3. I would also take the over. I hear you. But at the same time, like, I would say that the, like,

are you moving up to top five for Roman Dunezay? No, but I absolutely think in this draft class you are calling and trying to figure out how to get, how to secure a Rovadoonsay. Get ahead of the Bears, yeah,

at nine, a team could do that. And like, the issue that we always run into is we say, right, is this tackle class, right?

Okay, you miss out on Joel because the charges take them at five. They stayed at a five and they took them. Now you have Tiles Huwaga, Oregon State. You have J.C. Latham out of Alabama.

You have Olufushan of out of Pense. You have so many options. We have to remember that that's for all 32 teams we're looking at that. Each team, all of those teams will have at least one of those guys just like not on their board. Like not ranked highly enough to like matter, right? Like every team is winnowed. Every team is a lot thinner than we think. So it's like, all right, we definitely need a starting right tackle.

And for whatever reason, we don't like Fulaga. Like our only option is Latham. Now, obviously you try to play those cards close to the best. You don't want to have to go trade up for these guys. But I feel like the market this year is going to be extremely robust. Just because of like where the Vikings are at 11 or the jets are at 10. Bronx at 12, all of those teams, Colts at 15, all of those teams can be reasonably very aggressive moving up.

And then Titans at 7, Chargers at 5, Falcons at 8, bears at 9, all of those teams can very reasonably move. Like, it just makes too much sense for too many teams. I think it's going to be active, I believe. I'm just surprised. You just give Dan Comer extra work? I mean, doesn't he have enough to do? You just ask him to look something up for you that you could look up?

What's that? Comer, I don't do that. You know, if you're playing. I know you're mad at me about, you know, My Falcons takes on here, Atlanta fan. But I mean, come on. At least I'm not doing that, you know? So I'll let you get, let you.

So here's what she'll does. I notice what she does. Let me bring this down for you. She'll ask me like, oh, you're just sending Dan Comer questions. And then he goes and and makes himself like, you know, the hero here. He's like, I would never do this. So he doesn't even let me answer the question. He's already just setting me out, like sending me as the antagonist here.

Dan Comer works with the Ringer NFL draft show as our research guys, which is a new role for him this year to get him more involved in the podcast network. And so it is incumbent on me to involve Dan Comer in my draft research, all right? And I got a message this week that was like, hey, DC said, like, if you guys anything over the next two weeks, like, my shoe send it in, like, he's got a fact check

and, you know, shift coming up, so he's going to have time to look through stuff. I said, oh, I'll send him this. So I am being, all right, a constructive member of the ringer NFL draft team. I take it back. And if you would ask that, you would know. but now instead you go straight to, I would never do.

Oh, Ben's asking, do you see it? Oh, immediately jump into the conclusion. I apologize. I was at an information deficit. I did not realize that. That is perfectly reasonable. And I'm glad you lean on him for that because it's a great nugget. I mean, we just asked about it.

He didn't know. And now, you know, he's unofficial research for extra point taken. How about that? He just helped us out. He didn't even know. Okay. Director of research, Stan Cover. My last one.

I'm taking the low hanging fruit. This was the guy I said, We really can't. If we do the show and this guy's not on the list, we just look very stupid, even if I felt like, we've talked a lot about this team. But that's the Minnesota Vikings and Quesi Adofo Mensa. So again, I said on Monday, I think they're trading up to four. They've got 11 and 23.

They made the pre-draft trade with the Texans. I was reading a story in the athletic with comments from Adopo Menza. And he made his roster building like philosophy pretty simple. I do. He's a good. I like listening to or reading comments from an Adopho Mensa. Like if I had to make power rankings of the GMs in that respect, I'm like, yeah, I, you know, he has had some interesting stuff here.

So basically said either you have a quarterback who can elevate everyone else and you pay that quarterback a lot of money to do that, or you have a roster that elevates the quarterback and you don't pay the quarterback a lot of money, but you can pay everyone else a lot of money and build the roster that way. Obviously, it's not quite that simple, but it's also not that far up. I mean, we could go through most of the good teams, and they would probably fall into one of those two categories. So I think the bottom line for me here, So lack,

is that they can talk all about how they made this trade for flexibility in case they want to make a move of a quarterback and they're not sure if it's going to be a huge buzzkill if you're a Vikings fan, and this team does not come out of the draft with the quarterback, and you're talking about going into week one with Sam Darnel. I mean, like that is just, wait, what? We let cousins walk.

We got an extra first round pick, and we're still, and we're paying Sam Darnold $10 million, and he's our starter because you've got a roster with Justin Jefferson in his prime. You've got Jordan Addison on a rookie contract. You acquired T.J. Hawkinson. You've got two good offensive tackles. Like if we're talking about ecosystem for a rookie quarterback, which is a big discussion and

important discussion that we're going to continue to have now and also after the draft, the teams that are looking in this draft, I don't think anyone has a better ecosystem than the Vikings. When you look at the past catching talent, the offensive tackle talent, and a guy in Kevin O'Connell, who I think is a good offensive coach. So they've got all that stuff where, you know,

even though I'm not going to tell you J.J. McCarthy, like, is it getting a little out of control? Like, could you take a guy like J.J. McCarthy and plug him into that system and say he can be competent for us right away on a rookie deal? Because that is very, very valuable if you're able to do that. And he can continue to develop. And he's young and we can see what we look like here in the next three to four years.

So I think this era for O'Connell and Adolfo Mensa, two guys who I feel pretty good about, I think those guys know what they're doing. I think it's a good combination. Like if we had to rank all the coach GM combinations, I would definitely have them above average in the NFL. So I think they know what they're doing. But I think their era is going to be defined by what they come away with in this draft at quarterback.

Now, listen, there is that scenario where it's. doesn't work out for them. They don't force it. Maybe they trade one of those first for a first in 2025. They take their medicine and they attack quarterback next off-season. That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Still, again, like I mentioned earlier, that would feel like a

buzzkill if you're a Vikings fan. So they've got nine picks. They've got two in the first three rounds. Those two first round picks, they don't have a second. They don't have a third. So they've got to be a little crafty here. But I think this list has to include him and this football team. I think another big

reason why it has to include them is because they've made no bones about their plans, right? They are, I'll never forget standing at that podium being like, oh, we're just saying it out loud? We just, like, him and Kevin O'Connell went back to back. And they was just like, oh, man, when a quarterback is young and when you develop a quarterback, and here's what we're looking for in developmental quarterbacks and here's what you do for a young quarterback. And I was just like, you guys don't want to even like pretend like, oh, what if we got Ryan Tinnell? No, we're not doing like good for them. We all know anyway. Yeah, just be transparent. We're all grownups here.

So yes, but I will say, I think historically, the rest of the league doesn't like when you're walking around like that, right? You're making a face to me, you know that's true, right? The league is a bunch of bozos anyway. Do what you want to do. Yeah, but this is the reality. You're in a bozo world, I have to work with these bozos. You've got to trade picks with these bozos.

You've got to be able to play the game a little bit. And they're there being very explicit about their intentions. They make the big trade up to get a second current. first, right? They move up to get this year's first, which they know other teams are potentially going to value more and, and it's going to give them the ability to make a stronger offer than the Broncos might or the Raiders, might, so and so forth. They've made no bones about their plans. And accordingly, like, that makes this feel, you can argue wrongfully, but I think it creates internally and it makes this feel a higher expectation, right? What's like, okay, like, you know,

you had Kirk, you had your, your big run in 2022, and like that season was a little bit empty calories, well, but like, okay, you had this the success. And like, you believe in Kevin O'Connell and you've got your wider Ciers right and you make this trade for T.J. Hawkinson. And now, like, we're kind of coming to a big like, blah, bah, and we go and get our young quarterback. And here we go. Like, they've kind of like made it very clear that this is like they are putting the spearhead

in place and they are shooting. Like, this is it. So when you, when you build this much into end of this moment, it's just taking this quarterback, buddy, you got to get the guy and you got to get it right. Right. Like, this face plan will be very visible. if it is a face plant, right? This is like the Giants take a guy at six

and he doesn't work. It's LOL giants, then we keep it moving. Right? They have the fight, right? Wouldn't we be like, oh, David Jones they tried to get out of it. It didn't work. Of course it didn't.

The giants are bad. They can't develop. Like, this is never going to work. Just same old giants. Dude, if the Vikings do all this to go get a guy and then from day one, it never works, right? There's full Zack, full trail lands, full Zach Wilson,

just never any success. That's a goal. It is a big black mark on a team that's kind of been mustering for this for the last. couple of seasons. And so a lot of eggs in this basket from the Minnesota Vikings of Requessi. There you go. All right. I'm, you know what? I'm saving my hipster pick for Monday show. Can we get a sneak preview? No, you can't get a sneak preview. Can we get a ? Listen to the Monday show. It's one of the 32 teams and it's a team we didn't talk about today.

Oh my gosh, you're so annoying. There you go. So we'll talk about, I already have one of my points for Monday planned out. See, that's a veteran move right there. Work smart, not hard. There you go. So I've got one of my... All of our takes are going to be like, my second take. A lot of stake in this draft. That's what it comes down to.

That's what it comes down to. I'm happy with the show. I would do this show again with four through six choices. We can go ahead and do that. All right. Thank you to everyone for listening. Remember, Ringer NFL on YouTube. Let's get those subscriptions up.

Our Monday show, the entire show, will be on that YouTube channel. Lots of other good stuff. I saw Danny Hafeit, some YouTube shorts on there with draft needs on there. And plenty of other stuff, clips from all of the Ringer NFL shows, including this one. So go ahead and subscribe to Ringer NFL on YouTube. Solek and I will be back on Monday with our traditional show. And then we'll have another Friday show.

And they'll have a Monday show. And then guess what? It's the draft. That's it. Three more extra point takens before the NFL draft. I know Solek is happy about that. All right. you to Ben Zolak. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Thank you to

Eduardo Ocampo for the video production. Conorne Evans and Arjuna, Ram Gopal, additional production supervision by them. Arjuna, I just saw him tweet this morning, getting married. Congrats Arjuna! Greats. Amazing. Congratulations to him. Hopefully he is having a wonderful weekend. We'll talk to everyone next week on extra point tape. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fandwell is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Stark as he's. LLC. Gambling problem, call 100 Gambler or visit fandil.com.

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