The Ringer NFL Show - Who Has the Most At Stake For Super Bowl LVIII? Plus, Seahawks Hire Mike Macdonald | Dual Threat

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

Nora and Steven open by analyzing Super Bowl LVIII and decide which players and coaches have the most at stake. Then, they react to the news of the Seattle Seahawks hiring Mike Macdonald, and the latest on the coaching carousel. They conclude the episode by giving their best takes for the Pro Bowl. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Social: Kiera Givens and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL draft this year. My name is Ben Solac and I host the Ringer NFL Draft Show with Danny Kelly, Danny Hyfitts, and Craig Horleback. We cover trades, free agency, and the draft, which is, yeah, obviously. We'll tell you about everything, which includes which quarterbacks are good, which quarterbacks are bad and which quarterbacks are just Kirk Cousins. That is the Ringer NFL Draft Show. Search the Ringer NFL Draft Show on Spotify. The Adi. Super Bowl is upon us. We've got a little over a week left to preview the big game, but we're going to start today. we are going to talk a little bit about what's at stake in this 49ers chief Super Bowl coming up in a week and a half.

We're going to talk a little bit about some of the news stuff from earlier this week. The coaching cycle continues to turn. And then we're going to have a little bit of fun with some of the Pro Bowl competitions and maybe make some bold predictions for what's going to happen. Because, of course, I did say that it was sort of like the preview to Super Bowl week week, But it is, in fact, Pro Bowl week. Stephen, are you very excited for the Pro Bowl? Yeah, I haven't gotten done with my film study yet.

I still don't know who's going to win the big game. But I'm feeling like I'm leaning towards one team. That's good to know. That's good to know. I know you've been grinding tape really hard on that. So we'll get there. I really missed an opportunity at the top of the show to just pretend that we were going to spend the entire show talking about the Pro Bowl.

I wish I'd done that. Oh, well. Next year. Next year. we will start with the Super Bowl, not the Pro Bowl. We thought we would go through and make lists that we'll share with each other here of who's got the most at stake in the Super Bowl. The way that we thought about this, our wonderful producer,

my former editor, Connor Nevins, framed this as whose Wikipedia page is going to need the most updating after this game, which we both really liked as a framework. So the official framework of this exercise is who's got the most at stake in the Super Bowl. But the Wikipedia angle is, I think, my unofficial framework. So we've each brought five can be coaches, players, executives, broadcasters, anybody you want, anything's up for grabs, very loose. Why don't you start first, Stephen?

And I was going to go top to bottom most to least. But if you want to flip it around, we can do that as well. All right. I'm going to start in a very unsurprising spot. I'm going to go with Brock Purdy as my top guy. Wow. You think Brock Purdy has the most at stake of anyone in the Super Bowl? Yeah, because I think, like, financially, if he wins the Super Bowl,

there's no way you move on from him, like, even for a few years. Like, I don't think he's playing for his job by any means, but if he is playing for validation on everything he's done this year, I think if it ends ugly, then we question everything that he didn't. in the regular season. And that's kind of what happened with Jimmy G. Like I think it ends the honeymoon period with 49ers fans. Because before that Super Bowl, before the Chief Super Bowl,

which you could blame a lot of people for why they lost that game, but there's still that memory burned into our minds of him missing Emmanuel Sanders on that deep ball in third down. That could have won the game. And I think that was the moment for 49ers fans when they went from, oh, this guy gets too much shit from people from outside the fan base. all he does is win. We haven't won without him.

All he does is produce. But after that game, the tone of those conversations kind of changed. And I think 49ers fans, the bar raised for Jimmy after that loss. And I think you could see a similar situation

with Brock Birdie. I think it will be different. He's not making as much money. Jimmy never had a year like this. Jimmy was never in the MVP discussion ever, even at its peak. So I think he has a little bit more. leeway a little bit more slack. He's going to earn a little bit more slack. But I do think,

like, this is the end of the honeymoon period either way, whether he wins or losing. If he wins, it's not a honeymoon period anymore. It's like, we are married to you now. We are hitched. This is like this regular, like we're going to be in this together for the next couple years. And then if he loses, I think there's question marks about that. I think the criticism and the bar gets raised a little bit more starting next year. So look, he's the starting quarterback for one side. There's certainly a lot on the line for Brock Purdy. I find that really interesting

that you went there first because Brock Party is actually, I thought about having him on my list, but I ended up leaving him off because here's the thing. I don't think he's quite playing for his next contract as much as

would put him in the number one spot here. Because, okay, Brock Party is going to make about a million bucks next season. and the season after. I think because of that, because the cost is so low

and obviously he has accomplished a lot there, I do think Brock Purdy is going to have enough leeway where this is not going to be the final referendum on Brock Purdy. I think Brock Purdy, and this is one of the reasons that the discourse is so off the rails, is still this just like very small sample size player. Over more time, which we are going to get with him,

I think that will find its equilibrium a little bit. And if that ends up in a lower place than the sort of like MVP candidate position that he was in for a lot of this season, then I think whatever happens in this game, to an extent, if you're a Super Bowl winning quarterback, you're a Super Bowl winning quarterback, and you're always going to be able to have that feathering cap.

But I think if he wins this game, but then does not continue to have success, I think there will be enough revisionist history of, oh, yeah, I mean, he really was a passenger on that team. He's lucky to win that. He was lucky to win that one, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Where whatever narrative takes hold more broadly about Purdy is going to be reapplied to this game to an extent. Because I do think you're right.

If you win a Super Bowl, you just get more rope from a team. this is a team who we heard by Brock Purdy's own admission thought about replacing him if they could have gotten Tom Brady out of retirement as of last off season. So I don't think it's out of the question that if he doesn't perform well here, that thought continues to percolate. But I just think that Brock Purdy is so young. We've seen so little from him that there is going to be time, particularly given that he is, in the really, really cheap part of that rookie deal for two more years, where the book on him is going to be written over more time than just this game. The person who I put first is in a little bit of a different situation

where there is already a narrative and a historical precedent about, can this guy win the big one? And I think Kyle Shanahan has the most on the line of anyone in this game. Because here's this guy who, you know, he was part of 28 to 3 in the Super Bowl as a coordinator. He had a 10-point lead in the Super Bowl against this team and ended up losing the game. This is a team that had a 10-point lead in the NFC championship game against the Rams two years ago. All of those things didn't work out. and you can see it in his eyes.

You can see it in what's happening with his hair. I mean, Kyle Shanahan, I think, is in this place that Andy Reid sort of was in before he won a Super Bowl as a head coach, where he is this massively influential figure in the league. He's like one of the most influential people in terms of how offensive football is played and in terms of what the league actually looks like,

but it always comes with an asterisk until he has that hardware. with it. And so I think the opportunity to flip that and finally get one versus what would happen if he loses another one. And it just becomes more and more a part of the Kyle Shanhan story and more this thing that like, again, I think if you look at the guy, you can tell that it's sort of hollowed him out inside. I just, I don't see any bigger kind of seesaw in terms of how we're going to feel about a guy and how he's going to feel about it. And that's not to say that Kyle Shanahan won't be back.

He's got incredible job security and he's certainly got the ability and has proven that he will not always be there but pretty regularly be in these spots. But it is getting to the point, I think, where the number of times he's come so close and then not had it happen, just sticks out enough that I think,

I think this list starts with him. Like, I have him second on my list, so I'm not going to push back too hard against this. But, like, my reasoning for putting Brock over him is that, let me ask you a question. Do you think if Kyle loses this game, you think his job security will be affected in any way? No.

If Brock Purdy loses this game, do you think his job security, not in the short term, but in general, will be affected in any way? Yes. Exactly. That's why I think, like, for us, like for the narrative, I think, I agree with you.

I think it's like, it's on Shanahan. He's going to be the guy we're talking about if they lose. But for them personally, I think it's, it's Brock Purdy. So I think, look, if you, if we boiled it down into dollars and cents, years of employment with current employer, I, that's where I think there's a solid purdy argument. We're talking about Super Bowls, right? And so I'm sort of thinking about it in terms of like,

in 10 years how we remember these people, in 20 years how we remember these people. I think the swing for Shanahan is bigger, in part because I just think he's a more important figure in NFL history. Yeah. And so that pendulum, it's like a bigger pendulum that's swinging. the Purdy pendulum might be swinging pretty far in some ways one way or another.

It's a small, yeah. But Shanahan is just like, we're talking about if this guy's, like, is this guy going to make the Hall of Fame? He should make it though. He shouldn't he make it no matter what? Like, I think like this is one of the- But that's not how this works. I know, I know. That's what I'm saying he should.

Like that's what, maybe that's why I'm pushing back against this because I think like. Because you don't want it to be true. I don't want it to be true either, but it is true. we should disrespect him for being like this is the problem with calling him a genius is that when you when people hear that they're going to be like oh he's a genius then why doesn't he win super bowls and it's like no he's a play calling like his genius kind of is is focused on one part of the job he is like an offensive genius I don't think he needs a super bowl to validate that but I do agree with you that he's not going to get the recognition for that widely unless he wins a super bowl and it's just like a flaw in how we talk about sports and how we cover sports And I'm not saying all of us. I'm saying the media in general. But I'm totally with you on that. But I think he feels it too.

He definitely feels it. Like you said, you could see it in his face. And you could see it in some of his actions. Like the Trey Lance trade was obviously, I got to get this shit done soon. I'm tired of hearing about this type of move. I just think like with him it's a matter of time. He's going to be coaching for what?

20 more years at least like it's going to happen. he's going to get the right quarterback, he's going to get the right opportunity. It could happen in two weeks. But I think it's going to happen with him. I think with Purdy, there's a bigger question of, is he going to get back to this point again?

Not to say, like, this 49ers model isn't going to work. It's not sustainable. It's just like, we've seen, like, when a couple of key pieces go out,

what happens to the offense. And I think there's, it's harder to keep this together than, say, like, keeping Patrick Mahomes on the roster in Kansas City, which is like a get to the AFC title game, no matter what card every year.

It's not the same with having Brock Burdia's quarterback, obviously. Is Mahomes on your list? No. I put him on mine. You want to go there next? Yeah, why not? We'll skip around. I put him at the bottom of mine.

So we'll make sure to do the order at the end so that it's clear. But I put him fifth. And the only reason why is that he's 28 years old. He's in a six years as a starter. He's two and one in Super Bowl's at this point. So he's either going to come out of this game two and two or three and one. It's different. And it's only different in the context where, you know, Patrick Mahomes at this point,

he is only chasing Tom Brady. And look, I already, Patrick Mahomes has played football at his peak at a higher level than Tom Brady has ever played it. You hesitated with. what you were about to say. Well, because it's hard to figure out, like, this is, it's hard to figure out how to phrase it. Because at a certain point, the point of all of this is to win the flipping Super Bowl. Yeah.

It's not, it's like, you know, it's not to look really cool throwing no look passes. It is to win the flip and Super Bowl. So I, I don't, I don't quite know how to thread the needle super precisely between what does it mean to be, you know, the greatest quarterback all time? I still sort of feel like Tom Brady owns that. But first of all, Brady started three and one in his first four Super Bowls and in his first six seasons as a starter. By the time he was where Mahomes was, he had won three. So if, if, and he hadn't lost one, he was just three and O at that point.

If Mahomes has won three and made a fourth in this little time, then by that sort of definition of it's not the eye test, it's not what it looks like, it's not stats, it's not volume, it's accomplishment, it's hardware, it's number of years when you made it,

it's number of wins. If he has won three and made a fourth in this little time, he's ahead of him. He's ahead of it. And that's not to say that it's not really hard to get, four, five, and six and seven. But he's ahead of them. And I don't know that this means we will.

But if Patrick Mahomes wins this Super Bowl, then we should stop talking about him. Like he's not on pace with the Patriots dynasty and with Brady, not just in terms of what he looks like as a quarterback, but in terms of actual tangible accomplishment winning Super Bowls, winning trophies and doing that stuff that I think Brady still gets talked about as if he's well ahead of him, well ahead of Mahomes.

Yeah. And to your point about how hard it is to win four, five, six, and seven, like 12 years into Brady's career, he was still banking, he still had those three. He's still stuck under three. And like, I agree with you. If Mahomes wins this, he's ahead of him because, like, the years he didn't win the Super Bowl, he got to the AFC championship game one year, lost to Cincinnati, and then he lost in the Super Bowl to Tom Brady.

Yeah. The year that Tom Brady didn't win the Super Bowl, he didn't even make the playoffs. Like, the Patriots didn't make the playoffs the second year after they won the Super Bowl. Well, and my saying that being three and one after six seasons, like I am making the argument that three and one is better than three and O. because you won three and you made another. And I think making one and losing is still better than not making it. It's the LeBron Michael Jordan argument.

People are like, oh, Michael Jordan went 6 and O in the finals and LeBron went like, I don't even know what LeBron's at, like five in, but he made more. And like it's like you're rewarding him

for not making the finals. It doesn't make sense. And I think we have a situation like that. I really do think that will matter because that mattered in the LeBron and Jordan debate. It's going to matter in the Mahomes in Brady, debate that we're eventually going to have. That's going to be our Jordan and LeBron debate,

and it's going to go the exact same way that debate. Nobody's going to budge. The same talking points, it's going to be annoyed. But we can avoid this if Patrick Mahomes win. So maybe I should retroactively change my list and add him to it. Yeah, see, I think he will. I think he can kind of avoid that if it's three and one, right? Because it's like you won more than he lost.

It feels, I think you avoid some of that. I think a lot of people would accept three and one is better than three and oh. But two and two and two, that's where it starts to get a little, little fuzzy. You have to be ahead on the first number for the second number not to matter. Right. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

So I put my homes last. I've now totally derailed us and started jumping around. but you have my first one and my last one. I have for Kyle Shanahan and the Holmes. You have Purdy and then Shanahan. So I'll give you, I'll give you my second and then maybe you'll have to do two or something. We'll figure it out.

I do, I put, and this is good because then we can do a little bit more, uh, chiefs, Patriots, relative dynasty comps. But I put Travis Kelsey second. First of all, I think Travis Kelsey, I mean, I don't know anything. This is not, you know, this is pure speculation. But the way that that guy was playing and has been playing in the playoffs just seems like

just seems like sort of like summoning all the old man's strength he's got left in the tank being like, man, we got to win the Super Bowl because I want to retire real bad. And I think if they win it, then he gets to sort of make that choice, which could mean going out on top. He's the same potential Hall of Fame class year as his brother, which might be meaningful to them. And then beyond that, the thing that I wanted to ask you about is whether if he gets that sort of cherry on top accomplishment, do you think, like, where are we on the argument of Travis Kelsey versus Gronk? as the tight end of this era. I really think it's similar to the Mahomes Brady argument. Like for me,

Gronk is the Mahomes in this case. Yeah. Because I think Kelsey's going to end with the accomplishment if he gets the stats that he needs to surpass Gronk in like postseason production. Where I think like Gronk's peak is the best thing I've ever seen, like one of the best offensive players I've ever seen, not just tight end.

And the same with Mahomes. Mahomes doesn't have this like the accomplishments, the long track record. That's because he hasn't played a long enough. Gronk, it was because of injuries, obviously. But I think Mahomes is the best quarterback I've ever seen.

He's better than Tom Brady ever was already. And I think Gronk is better than Travis Kelsey was at any point in this career at his peak. So, like, yeah, it's tricky. It's going to be one of those debates where it's like, what do you prefer? Do you prefer the guy with like the elite peak, the guy that was like the best,

talent or do you prefer the guy that had the most production? And I think that's where Kelsey is. And I agree if he wins to Super Bowl, I think it's going to be easier to make the argument that he's the greatest tight end of all time. I will still reject it myself. But I think it's going to be harder for me to reject it if he does have these accomplishments. It's going to be harder to launch the argument that Gronk was better.

But Gronk has the rings. Gronk had, like, I don't know. It's tougher. And it's a tight end thing. Like I think the conversation kind of changes compared to quarterbacks. gronk somehow feels like gronk feels in control of that

conversation or competition right now and I wonder if this is just a situation where sort of everybody is getting it right on the eye test because gronk at his peak is just a better player than Travis Kelsey to speak and I don't think there's a super good argument

to put it the other way but the reason that he's here for me is, like you said, I do think if he gets this sort of like perfect conclusion. Although Gras sort of got that too. It was sort of weird because going and being with the Bucks is, an odd way to do it and it doesn't feel as satisfying as, you know, say he'd won a Super Bowl with the Patriots and retired after that or something. Maybe it would have changed the way that we think about him.

I don't know. There's something about Gronk that was so essential to those Patriots teams. And it's not to say that Kelsey wasn't, but maybe it's because, you know, Tyree Kill was there. Mahomes as just an actual, actual skilled football player, maybe dominates the conversation about their offense in a way that Brady somehow sort of didn't in New England. I don't quite know what the...

Andy Reed is, like, another person that's going to get credit before Kelsey will get credit for this overall situation. of the team. I will say this. If I was arguing for Kelsey, I would point out the fact that maybe the most impressive or most memorable Super Bowl win for the Patriots, Gronk didn't play. And that's the Falcon Super Bowl. True. True. Last year at the Super Bowl, Rob Grankowski went wide left on Fandul's Kick of Destiny. Now he's back for Kick of Destiny 2. And this time, you can play along.

All you have to do is choose if Gronk will make or miss. I'm really sorry, Gronk, but catching is more your thing. I'm Team Miss on this one and you can get your free pick in right now because if you're right, you'll win a share of $10 million in bonus bets. It doesn't matter if you're new to Fandwell or already have an account.

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$10 million prize pool to be split equally among all eligible participants who made the correct pick. Prize issued as non-withdrawable bonus beds that expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full terms at Fandwell.com. Sportsbook. All right. So who is your third? My third is Steve Spagnolo.

Me too. Because I think he goes from Steve Spagnolo defensive coordinator, lowercase D, lower case C to Steve Spagnolo defensive coordinator, capital D, capital C. This is the first year, like he's already won two with his team. This is the first year where you can say the defense is better than the offense. The defense is more reliable than the offense. They would not have made the Super Bowl if not for that defense.

like last week especially. They scored 17 points. They scored three points after the first two drives. They had 90 yards in the second half. Spaggolo, they're wearing in Spags. We trust shirts after the game. He's posing with the defense. Like, this is his moment.

And I'm happy that he's finally getting it because he was overshadowed. Like, no one talks about where the Chiefs were in 2018 and why they lost to Tom Brady in that game. And like what the big difference between the 2019 team that won and the 2018 team was. And it was Steve Spagnolo. And Bob Sutton, they had a defensive coordinator who you knew what he was going to be in.

And, like, you could create matchups. And I remember the 2018 AFC title game at the end. They were just spam and throws to Gronk, and Gronk was getting any matchup they wanted. And, like, Spagnolo came in and changed that. And that's why they become a championship team. Obviously, having the greatest quarterback of all time helps. But you need these supporting casts, these supporting characters to step up. And I think Spagnolo has been the number one supporting character on this team.

The headliners are obviously Mahomes, Reed, Kelsey. I think you can make the argument, especially if they win this game, that the fourth most important person in this little dynasty run they have going on is Steve Spagnolo. And then add on to that, that would be another big Super Bowl game plan pelt on his wall. Getting Kyle Shanahan in 2024 would be just as impressive as taking down that 2007 Patriots team, which he did with the Giants. First of all, I love the idea of like Steve Spagnolo

defensive coordinator All caps It feels like a like a 90s 90s like cable Yeah, he's like a detective or something Yeah, exactly

Exactly, I love it So he's got an opportunity to become If they win this game He would be the only four time Super Bowl winning Coordinator which seems weird. Like it seems like somebody else should have done that.

But and maybe it's just because, you know, those jobs are sometimes a little bit more transient. But it's never happened before. And right now he is in a one, two, three, four, five-way tie because Charlie Weiss as Patriots offensive coordinator, Josh McDaniels is Patriots, offensive coordinator, Romeo Cornell is, as Patriots defensive coordinator

and Richie Petibon who was the DC for some of Joe Gibbs' Washington teams, Anne's bags all have three. But if he wins, he's the only one with four. The other thing is, I mean, this is a guy who wants to be a head coach again.

And he still doesn't get interviews. He still gets overlooked. And that's because you know, he has a 0.208 winning percentage as a head coach. and it's fair. Hey, hey, hey, hey, we don't have to bring that up. We don't have to bring that up now.

But that's what's happening, right? Like on some level, it's kind of bonkers that we go cycle after cycle and, you know, there's just, there isn't interest in him and teams seem really spooked by that. But the more he succeeds like this, the more he proves that, you know, and particularly against this, this Shanahan offense, that if you're a defensive coordinator in the league right now, your number one job is understanding how to stop this and all the variants of this that we see with other teams.

I don't know. It seems like a decent argument to me and at least talk to the guy, see if he wants another shot. Last year, he was asked about it at the Super Bowl, and he said, I'd like that chance. You want a chance to prove you're better than the way you finished. And he cited guys like Belichick, Tom Coughlin, Mike Shanahan, doing it for a second time and doing better in those spots.

And he said, you know, I'm eager. If it happens, it would be a great thing. If I'm not, I'm a content man working here for the chiefs and for Andy. But he made absolutely no bones about the fact that he would like another shot. I don't know if it would happen if they win this game. It's a little surprising to me that it hasn't yet, not even in terms of, of him getting a job, but just in terms of him being a real candidate. But I do think that if he

gets the, not the lion's share, but a real share of the credit for a win here, and this team gets recognized as, you know, the first time in this Chief's dynasty where the defense really did it for them, that might be enough to move the needle. So, you know, the team loves him. The T-shirts are great. Spags is already, you know,

there's nothing on the line for him in terms of this guy's a good defensive coach. But there's a world in which he gets another crack at a head coaching job if this goes really, really well. And I'm not so sure there's not a world where, I mean, we're talking about Kelsey riding off into the sunset. I'm not sure there's not a world where, Andy Reid thinks about retiring if he wins one. And I think we could be in for like a Todd Bull situation where the most obvious answer is just to go with the defensive coordinator on the staff already that was a part of the game winning, the Super Bowl winning team.

So I think he might not be playing for a head coaching gig elsewhere, but I think he could be playing for being the next in line when Andy eventually retires, which I would imagine is coming sooner rather than later. He's 64. He's not. He's pretty spry. He's got time. So yeah, totally. Okay. So we have both of our one, two, three, and then my fifth.

Who is your fourth? My fourth is the other defensive coordinator in this game for very different reasons. Steve Wilkes, because I think if they lose this game, I really think Shanahan, And given like all, everything you've heard about this defense and especially Wilts, who's gotten kind of a raw deal, in my opinion, not only did he have to follow in the footsteps of a very good defensive coordinator into Miko Ryans, but like the team, the defensive line isn't as good as it once was. But it's kind of like the Cowboys offensive line where like the Cowboys offensive line

established itself as like the best offensive line in football. And like five years ago and like five years later, we're still like, oh, the Cowboys offensive line is like the best offensive line in football. And I think the 49ers defensive line kind of has that reputation where they haven't really been that good this year, like outside of Nick Bosa when he turns it on like he did on Sunday. But it does seem like a lot of the problems when the 49ers have had problems and there haven't been many this year. They have been put on the defensive coordinator because he's the new guy. He's the guy that wasn't here last year. And there are expectations for this unit.

I think if they lose this game, there could be a lot of pressure on tile to move on from Steve Wilkes and to find a different guy going in a different direction. I don't think that's fair. I don't think I would do that if I was shannon. I wouldn't give in, but I'm just saying I think that environment, it will just be more conducive to him making a move at defensive coordinator just to get people off his back. And I think if they fail, given how good the offense has been, I mean, if you were to blame something on their failure, it would be the defense.

So maybe it would make a little bit of sense for his head to roll for their failure. but I think there's a lot of a lot riding on this game for him in the opposite direction of how it's riding on it for specs. I think you're right because especially given how Jamico Ryans is done in Houston and the fact that that defense was feisty ahead of schedule and just the season that they had, you know, it's always comparisons, right? And that one's not particularly helpful to him, even if it's not really fair that all the blame would fall on him

if they don't have a great defensive performance here, and it feels like that's what loses in the game. I thought about, I didn't end up putting Bosa or Welts on my list. I thought about Bosa for a second just in terms of sort of like, there's a world in which he steps up and just has a monster type of performance that makes up for some of what they've been dealing with defensively that's led to some not great performances recently. it's definitely a thing that could sort of swing the game.

I don't think it quite rises to the legacy defining level, but I did have the thought. Wilkes is a good one. My question with Bosa, with the legacy talk, do you feel any differently about Aaron Donald because he won a ring two years ago? For me, it feels like that doesn't even, that's not even a blip on like the Aaron Donald resume talk.

So I don't think it would be for like, I don't know, it's for defensive linemen. It doesn't seem like, thing. Maybe I'm wrong. I think a little bit differently about him. I don't think it's more about being associated with the McVeigh-era Rams. Yeah. I guess than specifically winning a Super Bowl.

But, I mean, his performance in that game, I do, I do think of as a career moment for him. It's not the first thing I think of. When I think of Aaron Donald and how we will place Aaron Donald's 10, 20 years from now, I will think Aaron Donald was the most dominant player not only at his position, but arguably at any position in the NFL for year after year. Yeah. But I will on a secondary level think, and he was associated with some successful teams. Yeah, that makes sense.

Because now that I'm thinking about it, I think like Von Miller's performance in that Super Bowl against the Panthers kind of like stands out as a career moment. for him where he just dominates the game. So I think if Bosa does have that moment, it does kind of stamp his legacy a little bit more. I don't think it moves the need. It's not going to prevent him from going into the Hall of Fame if he loses, but it'll be something we talk about when he makes that Hall of Fame.

I also think that we don't know, you know, there's like an alternate universe thing where we don't know what it would have been like if they hadn't won. And as he was approaching retirement, there was this, well, he's never won the big one. and maybe there would have been. It will save him that like end of career, chasing the ring,

going to all these different teams, signing with like fringe Super Bowl. You end up on the Titans. So you're like DeAndre Hopkins are on a seven and nine Titans team by accident because you thought you were signing up for a contender. Whoopsies. Okay.

So this is actually, I think my next one is actually sort of a good test case for that. Okay. So I have Christian McCaffrey as I put him for. I didn't have him on my, but I kind of regret not having it. So here's the thing. I mean, Christian McCaffrey has never sort of won the big one in his career. Like he, this is, you know, before he was in the NFL, the sort of big Christian McCaffrey story was he broke Barry Sanders' NCAA, all-purpose yards record in 2015.

And then he lost the Heisman to Derek Henry. and it stuck with him. He's still upset about it. And it was a big story at the time about, you know, him ending up sort of the bridesmaid in that. To a lesser extent, this was his choice, of course, but like he sat out his final bowl game. He's at Stanford.

They win a lot of games. But it's like there's no, you know, Alabama. Oh my God. do we want a national champion? Like, there's no moment like that for him. And then he spends five and a half years in Carolina. He doesn't win anything.

It goes to one playout game. Keep pounding. He did not keep pounding. Goes to San Francisco. There's nothing, like, there's nothing that Chris McAfrey has to prove as a talent, as a player. But if he is the best player on a Super Bowl winning team, it is like the first real moment like that that he's ever had.

Yeah, let's get this guy a trophy is what you're. Like, let's get this guy in trophy. I mean, I started looking at his, like, high school stuff, and I think they won some of them. But, like, he played high school football in Colorado. So even that, it's sort of not, like, quite, you know, he's never had, like, a Friday night. Are you shitting on Colorado high school football right now? Dude, I love Colorado. Colorado is a top four state.

So despite its shitty high school football, according to Nora. Not me. No, I'm just saying that I think they have a more rational understanding. of the importance of high school football. You said he played in a farmer's league. That's what you say. No, no, I agree, though. This guy deserves a trophy, and I think, like, the fact,

I don't want to make this, like, an honor, honor thing, like a Brock Purdy thing either. But, like, he didn't get any MVP. Like, he's not an MVP finalist either. He's getting no recognition for this historic season, like, outside of Pro Bowls and all pros, yeah, whatever. You don't get a trophy. Maybe you do get a trophy.

I don't know. I'm just talking out of my ass right now. But, like, give him one of the big trophies, one of the good trophies, like an individual honor for this season. So, like, I agree. I think, like, him winning Super Bowl MVP if the 49ers win, that would be a nice ending to this season for him, where I think there is a danger if the 49ers lose a bit kind of getting lost to history.

I don't want to do the, what was the Patrick Holmes thing after the offsides with the Kelsey? Like, that was a Hall of Fame play, and you just took it away. But like that's kind of on the line with McCaffrey. He had this season that we haven't seen since like Ladani and Tomlinson won MVP like 20 years ago. And he's going to get almost no recognition outside of like the recognition running backs typically get. Yeah. No, I think. I mean, Christian McAfri.

Here's the way to say this. Christian McCaffrey's got to win something better than the Rose Bowl. Yeah. I agree. All right. Good. your last one, I think, is all we have left. Yeah.

I'm picking a guy that I think has been a major part of the story of the San Francisco 49ers for the last six years or whenever Kyle Shanahan showed up. But it feels like we never really talk about him because there are bigger figureheads in front of him. Like Kyle Shanahan is kind of the figurehead of the organization. But I think John Lynch has a lot riding on this Super Bowl for him. And it's the same as Spaggs. It's not necessarily like he's going to lose his job or whatever. We're going to start calling him a fraud or whatever.

But if he wins this, I mean, this little run he's on as a GM is one of the most impressive runs I've ever seen. Like none of the yeah buts that we could apply to Brock Purdy that we can apply to Kyle Shanahan even about the talent they have. Kyle Shanahan is a very good offensive coordinator. But being an offensive coordinator is easier when you have Debo, Samuel, Brandon, I, you, George Kittle, Chris McCaffer. He's as much of a product of what's around him as Brock Purdy is, arguably. But John Lynch is the one that put that team together. Stephen Ruiz compares Kyle Shanahan to Brock Purdy.

Product of the system around him. Propped up by Debo Samuel and Christian McCaffrey. Fraudwatch, question mark. Knowing 49ers fan base and media, that clip, that will be clipped and taken out of context. But anyway, that's besides the point. But, let's give John Lynch some love for building this super roster. And not only like, he drafted Rock Purdy. He traded for Jimmy Garoplo and made and then like, I know that didn't work out in the long run,

but it helped the 49ers in the short term. He made a mistake with Trey Lance. Did he trade for Jimmy Garvolo or did Bill call Kyle and say, you can have him? Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm trying to give John Lynch some credit. Okay. So the John Lynch thing, the John Lynch conversation is really interesting because the crux of it, I think, is here's the guy who traded three first round picks for Trey Lance. On the other hand, here's the guy who burned three first round picks and it didn't matter.

Right. It still did it. Like, he, that was because of him. And then, like, yeah, he burned three, three picks on Trey Lance, but who didn't develop Trey Lance? Wow. Wow. Calling him a fraud again. Well, I mean, on some level, you could make the argument that

Trey Lance's index finger and lower extremities didn't develop Trey Lance, but I like where your head is. Okay. I like the John Lynch. John Lynch has won executive of the year, has he? No. I don't think he's gotten it. He doesn't win anything.

He's like Christian McCaffrey. Both went to Stanford, too. that's what you get on the spot. John Lynch legacy talk. Love it. All right. I like those lists. I think it's like,

you know, this is the stuff that we're going to end up talking about after the game. So it's sort of fun to preview it. And sometimes the narratives are a little exhausting, but it is the Super Bowl. This is where this stuff gets written. So I think we've got a good,

got a good rundown here. Let's take a quick break, and then we will come back and quickly go through some of the latest in the coaching cycle. All right, we are back on dual threat. There's not a ton of news, as we sit here and record this on a Wednesday afternoon in terms of what's going on in the coaching cycle. But there are some little dribs and drabs that I thought were interesting. So let's just run through a few stories really quickly, starting in Seattle. Mike McDonald has sort of emerged as one of, if not the top candidate there, and he's got his second interview with the Seahawks today.

You're a big Mike McDonald guy. What do you think about this fit? I think it's the best fit. When we did our little matchmaker thing a couple weeks ago, it was the fit I picked for them. I think he's the candidate that I think goes beyond the flash of the typical, like, hot young coordinator candidate that we typically see. I think it's less, like, his play calling and all that is great.

But when you, like, talk to people around that building and you talk to people that know him and have worked with him in the past, like football coaches, for instance, it's like how he teaches stuff and, like, the way, the pedagogy, basically, like, how he communicates and how he empowers his staff that I think makes him such a good coach on top of the exes and knows knowledge and the play calling and all that. And I think that translates to head coaching more so then. Even like what Ben Johnson is doing, I think there's a little bit of that like empowering thing with with Jared Zolf with him.

But I think more so it's more on a wider range. It's on a bigger scale. It's more organizational. I think he's more in charge of the defense than maybe Johnson is in Detroit. So in some ways he's shown abilities that a head coach needs to have that coordinators don't always get a chance to show. And it's not like I've seen it firsthand. I'm basing this off secondhand knowledge from people that I trust.

But I think that's what is going to make him a good coach in Seattle if he goes there. Yeah, I also think that, you know, Ben and Sheel had a really interesting conversation about McDonald's potential fit there the other day on extra point taken. And I think the thing that I would add to it just in terms of whether, because what they were talking about was sort of like is, is, hiring a hot coordinator for his hot coordinator abilities of good idea or not. Because Mike McDonald's credentials in doing that are unimpeachable,

but the conversation is more, is this a right reason to hire someone for a head coach? The reason I think it is for Seattle right now is not just what you're saying about, you know, it's very hard to know for sure, but there are some indications that he's got people skills and teaching ability and stuff beyond just being sort of like an X's and O's game plan guy that would probably be applicable in the top job. But the other thing, just in terms of the defense alone, is that Seattle's been going through this transition over the last couple of years where, you know, they had, they were famous for the style of defense they played. but it got outdated.

And at the owner's meetings, I think it was, Pete Carroll sort of came out and said, look, we're trying to change. We're trying to become a little bit more of a Fangio style defense. And it just hasn't clicked yet. And they've drafted pretty well, but they haven't always been able to get the most out of their personnel. And there's just been a square peg round hole thing. going on with that unit.

So hiring someone who's really smart in the ways you need someone to be really smart to solve that problem, you know, I don't know if it answers the, is this going to be your franchise leader for successful teams for the next, you know, decade plus? That's hard to know. And that's a lot more than most teams get out of head coaches.

But in terms of just where Seattle is right now, he seems like the best guy for the set of problems and challenges that are in front of them right now. And I would be really curious to see what he would do with their roster and how he would look at it and say, this is the best way to counteract, to balance counteracting the styles of offense that we deal with in the NFC West

and that we deal with across the league right now, which is primarily, you know, the Shanahan system and offshoots of it, with who are the guys on the roster, what are they good at, and how should we as a defense act in response to that? And they've struggled with that, and they've been trying.

You know, you give them credit for trying, but I think Mike McDonald would be in, I would like to see him take a cracket at that. Yeah. To extend the round peg in the square, whole metaphor. Like, Mike McDonald is the type of defensive coordinator that's just going to be like, I have a square peg and a round peg, and I can use either of them. And I think that was the problem with Seattle is they were trying to live in this one world and then they tried to adapt to this other

world where, like, the true answer is you need to be good at a lot of things on defense. The idea of having one style of play on defense in 2024, I just don't think it works. Like, it works over the course of the regular season, but I think you need to have changeups. You have to not just like, oh, yeah, like we typically do this, but every once in a while we'll do this. It's like, no, the change-up part has to be a vital part of your identity is the fact that you can switch from week to week. And I think that's what he does so well.

And I think that's what makes him such an attractive candidate from the X's a No's standpoint. But like we said, that's like, I don't know. It's like maybe like 20% of the job. And even like the organizational stuff is probably like 40% of the job. And the other part is like buy-in from the team. And locker rooms are different. It's hard to say what's going to work in one locker room because it might not work in another one.

So all these hires, it's always tough to say. But I think like based on the knowledge we do have, he is a good hire. So the next thing, the commanders for the other, you know, Seattle and Washington are the two dominoes left to fall, the commanders reportedly were there were members of that team's brass who were on their flight to Detroit. when they learned that Ben Johnson had said that he was staying

and that he wasn't going to take a head coaching job. Now they've also interviewed Aaron Glenn, so it's not like they didn't have any reason to head out there. But Johnson had been, had seemed like a decent candidate for that job and someone who could end up in that role. That's obviously changed. Bobby Sloick also another guy in sort of the hot coordinator bucket

has opted to stay in Houston and is sort of off the board. So Washington, who seems the most up in the air about what they're doing, they've had second interviews with McDonald, or maybe that one's planned,

but the second interview list for them is Aaron Glenn, Mike McDonald, Dan Quinn, and then Eric the enemy is in a slightly different situation there. I'll ask you, first, Stephen, are you surprised just at how this Washington coaching search has gone?

Because at one point, it seemed like given the fact that they have that number two pick and given the fact that they have a lot of cap space and new ownership, it seems kind of like an attractive job. And I don't know that I get the vibe that it's been super hotly pursued. Right. Yeah. I think if I was a Washington fan, it would be my first red flag of the Josh Harris era, I guess. It should be concerning that a lot of these coaches, like Ben Johnson especially,

he's really the only one who's kind of said no. I guess Bobby Sloick kind of has to. But I wonder what's, like what's the perception from coming off the team that's maybe, I don't want to say scaring these coaches away, but like making them say like, I'll wait another year.

There has to be something. I don't know. There's something there. But maybe they did it to themselves. I feel like they were one of the teams that came out and said, we're not interested in Bill Belichick, which just is insane to me. But I think they had their site set on Ben Johnson,

and Ben Johnson decided that going back to Detroit was a better option for him. And I think that kind of left them in the lurch. It's kind of like the end of musical chairs, and they don't have a chair yet. And like, what are they going to do now? It's like Dan Quinn, probably. But I don't think they're in a situation where they're going to get a coach

that gets the fan base more excited than they already were about the new ownership. Because there was like a big buzz about this team. Their training camp was packed for the first time in ages. There is a lot of buzz about Harris taking over the team. And I think this coaching hire kind of derails a little bit of that momentum. I don't know how much it matters in the long run, but I do think there has been,

the brakes have been pumped on the hype a little bit with this new ownership because of this coaching ship. And all that's happening while they have a premium pick, they have cap space to work with, particularly for one of the offensive guys. And it seems like those are the guys who have sort of, who are the surprises in the sense of kind of taking their names out of the rig. Wouldn't you want that? Or wouldn't that at least be a really big fixture in the pro column? So the impression you're left with is that there must have been something in the con column to balance it out. do you think that it is, is, should Eric Fianna me be a little worried that they're still in the throes of, of this many interview processes with this many candidates?

I think if this was like a good faith situation, I think he should be, but I don't think he had a real chance of getting the job to begin with. And I think this is honestly like his best chance of kind of ending up with the job by default. It's like that not having candidate they like more, which it seems like that's a possibility right now. A couple weeks ago, we were not discussing Eric the enemy as a candidate for this job. Like seriously. Right. It was, oh, that's Ben Johnson's job and we're just waiting for the lines to lose.

So I think honestly, this is the best case scenario. It was really weird that they were so quick to say that they didn't, that they weren't interested in Belichick. I mean, look, if they really, really don't want him, then that is what it is. But I wonder if there's a little bit of regret at this point for jumping out in front of that so quickly

when all of a sudden it's like, okay, he's going to go work in TV, see what happens, wait a year, see if you can get back in the league somewhere, and it's like, is there if you want them, guys? That's why I think it's a little bit of a red flag. It's a little tepper-coded for me.

It's like I know how to, like, yeah, you've done this before. You've won six rings, but I'm going to do this my way. And like, we don't want you coming in, kind of setting the tone for the direction of the franchise. We know what we're doing. And like, you've never done it before. And Bill Belichick has.

So I think that was the first tiny little red flag. And I think the fact that the coaching search has gone, how it's gone is another tiny red flag about this ownership group. Still very early. I'm not saying it's bad. But it could. You don't need to tell anyone that you don't want to hire Bill Belichick. You just need to not hire him.

And they came out and said they didn't want Lamar Jackson. and we saw how that turned out. And the only reason you do that is if you're reading a lot of press clippings. And you go, oh, there's a, there's a narrative out there that Josh Harris, who has deep pockets and that group would be able to, you know, have the financial pull for Belichick, be interested in making it happen. Oh, you know, he's from Annapolis. It's close by. Here are all of these connections between Bill Belichick and the commanders. the only real reason you do that is if you're seeing all of that and going,

no, no, no, no, that's not true. We don't want to. And then you go tell someone because otherwise, like, what's the point? Just don't ask for an interview. Right. And then maybe if you end up with this situation and, you know, this is coming from a place of I think it's weird that so many teams didn't even have a conversation with the guy.

Yeah. I mean, if you're like, you don't have to hire him. That's what it is though. people are reading the press clippings. And the press clippings from the last two years are like, Billichick is washed. He sucks. He stinks.

He's not a good coach anymore. Like, so I think the problem isn't so much that they're reading the press clippings. It's that they're buying into them clearly. And to the point where they responded to one of them by putting out the report that they're not interested in the greatest coach of all time. Womp, womp, womp. Don't read. That's the solution.

That's the solution. Don't ever read. Were you surprised in general about the slow, and Johnson decisions to stay? Sloick, no, because I think Slovak needs that time. I think it was a little bit too much too soon. Yeah, with him.

I think he's got more to learn. Johnson, I think it's more emotional than what, I think that's like the obvious solution to, because there has been like, oh, who didn't want who? Who turned down who with Washington and Johnson? And I think the more simple solution is that he just went on this emotional run with his team. They just lost this chance to go.

to the Super Bowl in the worst way possible. And he was probably like, hey, man, I want to be with these guys again for another year. I want to just, the head coaching opportunities aren't going away. Stephen, as you speak, we have a slack from producer Arjuna who says, there's

the coaching news. Ah, Adam Schafter, a youth movement in Seattle, Seahawks are expected to hire Ravens defensive coordinator. Mike McDonald, as their new head coach, league sources tell ESPN. They're still finalizing the deal, but Seattle has its man at 36.

McDonald now becomes the NFL's youngest head coach. I love it. Like we said, five minutes ago, good hire. We don't even need to add it. No analysis needed. We already gave it to you. If anybody, if you want to know our thoughts on Mike McDonald as head coach of the Seattle Seahawks, rewind about four minutes.

Cool. I do wonder what this means for the Raven staff. I think, like, that was the thing we didn't discuss on Sunday night. We discussed Ben Johnson. leaving and what you didn't, we're like, what's going to happen with the Lions offense without him? But like, what's going to happen with the Ravens defense without this guy who was maybe the best defensive coordinator in the NFL this year or second behind Spags? I wonder what they do with that staff. Like Anthony Weaver is on that team. Yeah.

He is well regarded. I think he just walks into that role if he wants it. If he doesn't go elsewhere and take it, he might follow McDonald to Seattle. There are a lot of a good young coaches on that staff. And I'm interested to see where they end up. For sure. I mean, it's Probably. I think you're right to Anthony Weaver is probably the guy there. And they're lucky to have him to slide in there. But the job that McDonald has done, and like you said, there's just so many nuances to how they play defense.

And that's a good roster. And the players are doing a lot of the heavy lifting there. But just the individual, like, those are bespoke game plans. And that's tough. It's tough to lose that, certainly. But the part I said about him, like, kind of empowering. and the players and teaching the players well, that applies to the coaching staff.

And I think, like, he is leaving this coaching staff, assuming he doesn't like coach it himself, but he is leaving this coaching staff in really good shape. So I know I just said, like, oh, maybe we should be a little bit more worried about them losing them. I do think there is like a good transition plan in place

with him leaving it. In our show Slack channel, our co-worker Austin Gale, the fabulous Austin Gale, was typing for a little while. after Arjuna posted the Schefter tweet, and then he stopped typing. Austin, you can't hear me,

but we want the take. We want to know the take. It was hot. We know it was hot. We can share it with the listeners. What were we talking about that I completely cut you off of when this news broke?

We were talking about Ben Johnson and him, I think the fact that he stayed might just... Ben Johnson getting bullied by an emotional appeal from Eminem to never leave Detroit. Right. I think that's what it was.

I think that was part of it. and I think maybe there were some bad vibes in Washington that he didn't like. In your opinion, just based on feel, based on no like knowledge of the situation, do you feel more inclined to think that it was Johnson rejecting Washington or the other way around? Because it has been reported that his price, his asking price was a little high. Yeah. I think, I think Johnson, I think Johnson said no more so than Washington did. that's really a gut feeling

we should look into I don't know if there's been any any clearer reporting from any of the people there I just don't think that I think that's the type of thing that gets leaked from a team side if you're a little miffed right they were getting on the plane

to Detroit apparently when they found out right it was like oh I didn't like you anyway kind of thing I don't know right um I won how, you know, I think that's admirable. It's admirable commitment to an organization. I'm glad the Lions will continue to have him because, look, this Lions run was really, really fun and it would be

nice to see them stretch it out as long as possible. Having Ben Johnson, I think, does help that. Dan Campbell, it was so heartbreaking when he said and credit for the honesty, but when he said to that team in the locker room, we might not get back here. And it would be, I'm in favor of things that help them do that. And I think Ben Johnson's staying there is, it works in that direction. The ownership stuff is tough. There are a lot of kind of weird NFL owners to work for if you're a head coach. I still think that commander's job is pretty good.

So much so, I didn't even know what owner, what part of that, what team you were talking about there. You could have been talking about the Lions ownership for all. They got some weird things going on behind the scenes. This is a pro-shella Ford podcast. She drives around in her little go-car. Let me put it on record that I am anti-Ford part of the podcast. I just want that on record. I'm sure if Sheila Ford has done anything questionable in her past,

I'm unaware of it, but I guess I would. wouldn't be surprised by it. She's just a little old lady, is what I'm saying. It's not her. It's the people that came before, but yeah. It's old Henry. Old Henry. Yeah, that's fair.

But I just, I wonder how people, like, it's just a, it's a lot of resources that the person in that job is going to have at their disposal. And I'm a little surprised by how, how little that's seeming to matter. matter. Okay, let's keep it moving. Here's a weird one. The Eagles, so let me find, let me give you the exact wording. Bill Belichick is and was on the Eagles radar. So Greg Bedard of the Boston

Sports Journal said in a radio appearance that, you know, he was just sort of citing the senior bull rumor mill. But he said the Eagles were very very. interested in Belichick if things didn't work out with Nick Siriani and they could be at the front of the line if things go poorly for him next year. I guess I get it in the sense that, you know, he's sort of saying that there were back channels potentially between Belichick and Howie Roseman, the Eagles and that there was sort of like a, well, maybe if he gets fired and we lose a bunch of games down the stretch. The thing that's confusing me here is that I think if the Eagles had had strong enough, had really serious interest in hiring Bill Belichick, and whether they were

going to do that or not was sort of hinging on how Nick Siriani performed down the stretch, then I think the Eagles would have fired Nick Siriani because Nick Siriani performed horribly down the stretch. And they decided that they were going to allow him to to fight for his job and sort of remake the coordinator roles, obviously with a lot of input from Roseman and from the Lurries, but that he was going to get another shot with the coordinators being the scapegoats. And if they were really that interested in Bill Belichick,

don't you think they would have just gone for it? I think so. I think they would have. Like you said, how low was the bar if, Nick Siriani's end-of-season performance cleared it. Because, like, this was as bad of a meltdown from a head coach as I can remember. Like, the Patricia thing, I think, just put the icing on the cake. But there are other problems with this team.

And then, like, moving on from Brian Johnson after one year, I think was shows gives me more pause than, like, him retaining him would have. Like, I don't think you really gave him a chance to develop as an offensive coordinator. I don't think you, like he said many times, this is my offense. I think you are kind of saying, like, I'm not capable of developing this guy into a better offensive coordinator, or just controlling the play calling from the head coaching spot. So I thought that was like a self-admission of,

not incompetence, but somewhere where he needed to grow in the job. But at the same time, he went to the Super Bowl year ago, and it's kind of rough to move on after that. And the fact that these reports are even coming out, and then we've had a lot of reports coming out of Philadelphia with the quarterback, with the coach, coaching staff, the defensive side of things, the play calling. And I think that's the big red flag and the fact that that stuff came out and it wasn't kept in-house

plus the end-of-season meltdown. I, like, if that was actually the case, like, yeah, I don't understand how he kept his job because this is just as messy as it could have been. Messy, messy, messy. And speaking of which, last thing, we'll cover. we have our first official Jets, Aaron Rogers Jets behind the scenes

expose. This is from the athletic. Here's the headline. Aaron Rogers, Robert Sala, and how the Jets Season fell apart, colon, and then in quotes, something has to change. There's, I guess, there's another headline of maybe this is a podcast talking about the same story,

but parsing the Jets incredible dysfunction. So I guess this was all, um, those stories by Zach Rosenblatt, Diane Rossini. And, you know, goes into basically,

Rogers having an outsized role and a lot of feelings. The coaching staff tried to placate him. What's going on behind the scenes after his injury and having that all fall apart. Um, anything from this piece that stood out to you? It was a piece that could have been generated by AI in August. I'm not saying like this was like an AI generated,

written like the quality of writing. I'm not saying that or reporting. I'm saying like the materials were out there in the ether on the internet for like if you gave a prompt to an AI to put together the story of the jet season. This one would come out. Like, oh, Aaron Rogers was difficult and stubborn. I can't believe that happened. oh Robert Sala couldn't manage that

oh my God I can't believe that you're telling me Nathaniel Hackett was incompetent no no way what you're telling me the team fell apart with Zach Wilson had to play quarterback like yeah yeah yeah this is what we thought would happen

and this is what happened and I agree with the second part of that headline something has to change but something hasn't changed they're running it back so to speak like they're trying it over again for the most And look, you know, all of this was sort of foreseeable. Some of this happens with a lot of teams and egos have to be managed by the scenes and there's conflict.

But here's the thing. It's not really that anything that's in the story is particularly surprising or unperseeable. But the fact that the story exists now and that we have the first sort of wave of, here's everybody taking you know little shots at each other and they're texting reporters they're talking to people and they're talking about everything that's going wrong

this changes the vibe right this changes the this changes how Rogers responds to things I mean he's already taken swipes at his co-workers when there has been internal leaks

right in the story there's a part about Rogers being upset about the leaks and it's in a story that is just full of leaks. It's very, very good. Right. Very good bit. You know, they're on a, they're on, I think, a real razor's edge with, look, like, Rogers, I still, you know, we haven't seen them play in a year, but reasonable odds,

Rogers is still a good enough quarterback that that Jets roster would be competitive and interesting. But they are really, really, really on the precipice of. all of the other stuff being too much to expect any team to handle. So we'll see. I'm sure there will be more where this came from. I honestly, I think Sava comes out looking the worse from this,

especially like even like the non-Rogers aspect of it, I think the part where in the story where they're talking about how he started looking up other coaches who failed because of bad quarterback situations. And then there was talk about how his defense was really good, but obviously the quarterback situation was untenable. And, like, you are the head coach. You are not the coach of the defense. I know you were a defensive coordinator,

but you are the head coach. The offensive failures fall on you just as much as the defensive failures, even if you aren't calling the plays. I think that was the biggest red flag in this article. And it's not like I had the highest opinion of Robert Sala as, like, a head coach, like, his capacity to lead them to a Super Bowl. But after reading that, I'm just like,

I just don't think you can have that mentality as a head coach. coach and win games. Right. I think that's right. All right. Do you want to talk about the Pro Bowl? I've been waiting to talk about the Pro Bowl. Waiting all day for Pro Bowl talk.

So what are we doing here? We've got five bold predictions for Pro Bowl weekend. I only had three. You only have three. Okay. Why did I do? Well, I've got two bonus Pro Bowl predictions for you. Free of charge.

Grotty. Mine are incredibly weird. The Pro Bowl is incredibly weird. We're playing flag football. We've got a tick-tack toe kicking competition. There is something with a dog. It's in Orlando. The Manning brothers will be there.

First prediction, lay it on me. All right. My first prediction is, I did not look into this, but as I understand, Eli Manning has one team, Peyton Manning has another team. I'm saying, like, everyone sees Peyton as the smart brother. If there was a GM out of this group, it would be Peyton. I'm saying Eli wins the game, and it's not even close.

His team dominates because Eli is a winner. He shows up when it matters the most, and Peyton is a choke artist. And I don't think he knows ball. He endorsed Adam Gays. He endorsed Jim Bob Cooter, two bad coaches. And Eli Manning wins big games, and he took down the greatest team of all time. So I think Eli Manning's a winner and they're going to win the game and it's going to prove that he has always been the biggest winner in that family. So Peyton's coaching the AFC.

Eli's coaching the NFC. AFC quarterbacks are Gardner, Minchew, C.J. Stroud and Tua. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Gardner Minchew is a Pro Bowl quarterback? Yes, Gardner Minchew's a Pro Bowl quarterback. No one wants to go to the Pro Bowl. There's like a whole thing going around the internet right now about Gardner Minchu is a Pro Bowl quarterback and Josh Allen is not. Guys, Josh Allen's playing golf.

He said no. He said he wouldn't do it. So don't let anybody go. Don't let anybody go though. But that's the point. We can't be mad about Gardner Minchu being a Pro Bowl quarterback. No one is agreeing to do this. Matthew Stafford is not agreeing to do this.

Josh Allen is not agreeing to do this. Lamar Jackson is not agreeing to do this. So Gardner Minshu is what you get. If you want to have this dumb game, that is what you get. I will say this. Tyler Huntley made it last year. So maybe I'm trying to choose this year's Tyler Huntley. So Eli gets Jalen Hurts, Gino, and Baker.

Oh, yes. Now I feel even better. I didn't even know the rosters at this point. But now I feel even better. Eli's going to wash them. are they coaching? Are they calling the place? I mean this like with all sincerity, I absolutely love and I'm actually like regretful of my own actions that you approach this exercise by doing absolutely no investigation into who was playing in the pro. Not at all.

That is the optimal way to approach the proble. The only thing I looked up was the skills games because I didn't know what they were. So I did look that up. But yeah, I'm working off the knowledge that Eli and Peyton are coaching, which came from. from producer Steph in the pre-show meeting yesterday. But that's the only thing I know about this. So, okay, here's, I want you to put your, your QB rankings hat on, though, because one of the skills games is, it's like, it's quarterback accuracy.

I have a hot take based on this, based on one of the competitions. Okay, you do it first. And then if it doesn't answer my question, I'll ask it. One of the competitions is precision passing. I did not look into what this event actually entails, but I assume it entails accuracy of some sort. And based on my past viewings of these competitions, there's probably like a target and it's on the back

of the truck and it's driving and stuff like that. My prediction is Baker Mayfield performed so poorly at the precision passing competition that the bucks do not give them a deal in the off-season. So you are right. The precision passing, the precision passing exercise,

uh, there are some stationary targets and there are some moving targets. The stationaries targets he can handle. It's going to be the moving targets. These trucks are in, they're not responding to play action fakes. Why not?

Can't run play action. I do think that. Minchu, the AFC quarterbacks, I think, are probably going to win that. Yeah. I could see that. Minchu is going to win.

Gino might win. But I think it's, I think they, it's as a collective. Oh. Okay, yeah. I agree with you then. Although I don't know about Tua. There's no defense. That's good point. But those trucks can get pretty loud.

I don't even know if they're on the back of truck. I'm just making things out. This trucks can get pretty loud. I don't know if they're on trucks either. All right. So my Manning Brothers related take was, is that there is a, there's a golf competition. there's basically like a best ball competition involved in this. And I do think that Peyton potentially, because he'll be feeling the heat from his upcoming loss to his brother, I think Peyton is going to be like visibly disturbed by someone's golf game. And it's going to be a meme.

I don't know who it's going to be. It's very hard to find clear reporting on who's actually participating in what competition because I believe it's like three. players from either team. But I think we're going to see some real reaction shots from Peyton Manning. I mean this hypothetically, because I will not be watching this. No, no, nobody will. Producer Steph is the only person we found out yesterday that watches the Pro Bowl,

and he watches it every year and he's a big fan. He told us. Producer Steph should be doing this segment. I'll give you another one, and then you give me one. I have Be the Border Collie to win Dog Play of the Year. year. From what I understand, there's some sort of side event where a border collie and Randy Moss are going to be catching things.

So Randy Moss is taking on a dog and a catching competition is what you're telling me. B the border collie, yes. And I'm going with B. Sorry. Fresh legs. I disagree. I think B is a system dog. I don't think B is very good.

it's a product of the system around it. I think Randy Moss wins that. You think B, the border collie is going to get mossed? Yeah, I can see it being close, but I don't think B has what it takes to show up. The lights are brightest. B is the coat.

B is going to be unfazed. My last one. The only issue for B is if anyone gets like a bell or better yet, I mean, any sheep in the vicinity, B is going to get really distracted and not be able to handle it. This applies to Baker Mayfield. as well. My last one is my most serious take,

and one that I actually support. And there's a Madden NFL head-to-head competition, apparently a part of this where players are going to play against each other. I don't want to see the players play against each other. That's boring. I don't care. Oh, 20-something-year-old men are playing video games. What a gimmick.

Like, yeah. Let's see the head coaches play each other in Madden. That's what I want to see. I want to see coaches play Madden. and see how they play. Who are the two coaches you would like the most to see play Madden against each other? This is a good question.

My instinct is to go to Bill Belichick. He's not even a head coach anymore. But like to go with an old guy that doesn't understand how it works. But really, I want to go with a guy who understands how video games work and gets really frustrated that Madden isn't like real football.

So Kyle Shanahan. He would be mad. He would put the quarterback, the virtual quarterback, back in his doghouse, he would bench him. He would trade three first round picks for another one. It would be funny to watch. Yeah, I have a meltdown.

Apparently, like, no, this is a thing, because I remember there was like an interview where Chris Sims was talking about his friendship with Kyle Shanahan. And one of the things was they would play Madden and Kyle would, like, explode about how fake it was. He'd be like, I ran at the B-Gap bubble, that was the right play, and it didn't work. It's like, yeah, the game is designed by people

that don't play football. What do you expect? That's hysterical. And then they got matching. tattoos. Never forget. All right. My last one.

I think that the game of kick-tack-toe between Justin Tucker and Brandon Aubrey, I think it is going to be decided not by physical success or failure, but by mental

success or failure. Who do you give the edge? I'm not sure. If one of these guys does not understand that the optimal first move in Tick-Tock-toe is always in the corner, I'm going to be really disappointed.

Oh, I see what you're saying. They're going to go straight down the middle. They're going to try to hit the center, which is fine. But if you hit the center and no one screws up, you're going to end in a draw. Yeah.

Oh, okay. So I don't think Justin Tucker will, though. I think Justin Tucker, I think Aubrey's just going to be happy to be there. He's going to take the easy route. He's going to take the point, so to speak. Whereas Justin Tucker, I think, like, ice water in his veins. He's ready for the moment.

He's going to be thinking clear-headed. He's going to go for the best strategy. But I do think. Here's the thing, though. Oh, go ahead. Here's the thing, though. I mean, Justin Tucker, you know, Justin Tucker is, I think, going to be seen as the, like, this is like a David and Goliath matchup.

Justin Tucker, the greatest kicker ever. Brandon Aubrey. Who's Brandon Aubrey? Justin Tucker on a field goals this year, 86.5%. Brandon Aubrey, 94.7. I was about to say, Justin Tucker's showing a little bit of signs. Little bit of age. Little bit of age.

He's getting up there. Is this a passing of the tort situation at the Pro Bowl? The classic, like we've talked about throughout the history of the sport, the kick-tac-toe competition is where the torch gets passed from one generation. Brandon Aubrey is going to send Justin Tucker into retirement with a brutal loss in kick-tack-tack-to. So based on this segment, Justin Tucker's career is on the line and Baker-Mayfield's contract situation

is on the line this weekend at the Pro Bowl. Who's got the most at stake in the Pro Bowl? It comes back around. Steph, you got a lot to be excited about this weekend. My last one, for what it's worth, is probably the most boring, but a 60-plus-yard, C.J. Stroud to Jamar Chase's

touchdown in the flag football game. Feels like it could be in the cards. That would be nice. I'd be happy for that. I would like that. I could get off a Joe Burrow, arm strength joke. That would be awesome. But that assumes I'm watching, which I won't.

But producer, Steph, will be. All right, this has been dual threat. I'm Nora Pinsiati. He's Stephen Ruiz. Ben and Sheal will be up next. They'll have extra point taken for you later this week. And then we will be coming to you from Las Vegas all throughout next week. The various shows on this feed, we're going to do a bunch of stuff.

might even get the four of us together and do a little chit-chat sometime next week. So that'll all be great. Look out for that. We will have you covered on the feed, on the rigor.com. So much great Super Bowl preview content leading up to the game. Thank you, as always, to Stefan Anderson for producing this episode. Thank you to Kiargibbins for her work on social. And thank you to Arjuna Ramgapal and Connor Evans for their additional production superbiz. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

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