The Ringer NFL Show - Who Has the Most at Stake in the NFL Draft?

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

Sheil, Steven, and Diante get together to survey the league and shine a light on the teams and GMs who have the most to win or lose in the upcoming NFL draft, including the Texans (5:33), Bills (13:05), 49ers (23:16), Dolphins (34:41), Bengals (48:18), and Seahawks (54:54). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Steven Ruiz, and Diante Lee Producer: Chris Sutton Social: Kiera Givens Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Folks, it's Jay Kyle Mann from The Ringer, and as always, basketball is so freaking, freaking good. It's so good, in fact, that The Ringer's NBA Draft Show is finally back just in time for a ramp up to June. We've got you covered every week as we take an in-depth look at who's got next for the NBA's future. We'll talk the rising and falling stocks of the best and the brightest prospects in the 2025 NBA draft class. From Cooper Flagg to Dylan Harper, the BJ Edgecom, and more. tap in with me on the Ringer NBA draft show every Wednesday and make sure that you follow, subscribe, and hit us with those five-star ratings. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capadia here with Stephen Ruiz and Deonté Lee. We are continuing our draft conversations today.

Taking a look at the biggest stakeholders can be a GM, a coach, a team, a city, a country, whatever you want to do. Who has the most at stake in the 2025? Do cities? You could do whatever you want. Yeah. I would have done the city of Green Bay. I don't think they're, I don't think they're going to be able to handle all these people. Like, when I was in Green Bay, I took like an Uber drive and like the Uber driver was like, yeah, like on game days, like, it's, it's the city like, the city like, the city of Green Bay.

And like, people have to stay in Milwaukee because we don't have enough hotels to go to games. Now imagine like 100,000 people coming to the city. So I'm a little worried. That's all I'm going to say. I'm saying Green Bay. That's my first stakeholder is the city of Green Bay. That's his first one. we all had to pick too.

So Ruiz's first one. I got two more. Don't worry. It's already out of the way. But the news of the day is Deonté Lee signing on. And will you say, I don't recognize this guy because the beard is gone for the first time in Ringer NFL history. Now, listen, there's a big push. You know, we're trying to get people.

Check out Spotify. You got the video option on Spotify. If you want to see, like we're able to see, Deonté Lee, without the beard, what better recent to check out the video version of this podcast on Spotify. Deonté, if you need 20 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever you need to explain this, because this was the shocker of the morning for us. I feel like the people that live with me are mourning this a little bit more than I am. My son before bed last night said, you look much funnier with no facial hair than you did, which makes it 10 times more regrettable than it already was. I'm sitting here looking at our social

media producer, Kira Givens in here. I am begging that I am not the thumbnail for this YouTube clip when this goes out. Put three Deontes up there. You got a Tony Gwynn thing going on. Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

Opening day is upon us in the MLB. I'm looking like I play a little bit of second base turning two. You know, working on my first step, fielding the ball, glove to hand transfer the whole nine. It's like you got traded to the Yankees can't have the beard. I love it.

Yeah. Deiante, you said this was a little bit. Now, this was off the record before the show. But listen, we were an open book. You said this was the result. Little maybe accident with the trimmer. And you said, I guess we're going all the way. Yeah, you know, trying to clean up and need the neck.

You get a little close. You know, got a little too close, a little closer than I wanted to. And you try to fix the problem. I'll just bring the hair down on the side. You start looking at that. That doesn't look right. Okay, let me see if I can line this up and make it work. Chin strap look.

doesn't really work on my face and we're here now. So RIP to the beard. For the Ringer NFL fans, enjoy this while it exists because I promise you, this will be the last time that you guys see me totally bare on the face. I've been there before. And if that happened to me and I had a pod to do, I probably would have called out. I'm going to be honest. Next time I call in sick, you guys should know that I just messed up to my beard.

I love it. Listen, part of being adult, you know, fun part is you switch it up. You go clean shave, you try different things out. That's what you do. you get bored a little bit as you get older. So I like a little new look. And of course, I'm, you know, team content. So we're going to get those views on Spotify and YouTube with this episode.

You can be sure of that. All right. So we could pick any teams we want. Like I said, it can be a team. It can be a GM. Whatever direction we want to go. We each identify two, two subjects that we feel like have the most at stake in the 2025 NFL draft or have a lot at stake in the 2025 NFL draft.

And we also all have some backup. So we're going to get to these. It's a fun exercise. I was going through. I felt like I could have picked 10, 12, 15. There are a lot of teams where you look at this and, you know, put yourself in the shoes of some of these GMs and be like, you know, next year at this time, are you still going to be in that city with this job if you don't nail it during these three days at the end of April? So I'm curious to see what these guys think.

Deonté, why don't you start us off? Who was your first choice for most at stake in the 2025 NFL draft? Yeah, to preface is I wanted to take this away from teams that we've talked a bunch about already. So I wasn't really considering the Seahawks, who we spent a lot of time talking about, you know, some other teams that like the Falcons, other teams that have made moves or have things looming coming up in the draft that we've kind of hit on throughout this process. So the first team I'm starting with are the Texans, really Nick Aseerio, you know, as GM. And a lot of this was kind of not necessarily that it was telegraphed, but you're,

could kind of feel it coming. I would say from the moment that they traded up to go get Will Anderson, they were going to have to recoup some of those draft picks one way or another. I think if you trade Laramie Tonsul a year ago, you might be able to get a first round pickback, right? But he was probably the most tradable asset that's not currently on the same timeline as Stroud, Stingley, and Anderson, who are going to be their temp whole players going forward. So you go, you recuperate those draft assets, but you look at free agency and it's not like they had a lot of cap space to work with anyways, but they don't make many moves to try to address their offensive line needs. And now they are facing a situation where they need to nail both an interior starter

who could come in and help right away and a tackle that can come in and help right away. And I think that if you want to avoid what it look like for Chicago in 2024, where you've got a gifted quarterback who can do a lot of things, who can help solve problems in your offense, and you can never access those things because he's always running for his life. I mean, Houston obviously dealt with this in their own way last year. You go in bringing a new offensive coordinator who, you know, is a little bit more offensive line focused. They're expecting them to be more of a problem solver and developer in that type of way.

I need to see them nail the draft GM. I need to see this offense take on a different personality, a different identity in 2025 as well. Otherwise, we could look up and see even if they're winning the AFC South that there's even more of a distance between who they are and the top teams and the AFC are as contenders. We talked about it a lot during the season. And none of us like this Texans offense, really. It felt like very early last season, maybe even before the season. We're like, we have questions about this Texan's offense. And it just was one of the most disappointing units in the NFL.

And so they go into this offseason. And it was like, all right, they're going to change up the offensive coordinator. Maybe they change up the offensive line coach. They did those things, which is a good first step. But Ruiz, from a personnel standpoint, in terms of rebuilding an offensive line, I think Deontes is right. There's a lot of questions here. You know, they add Cam Robinson,

They had Ed Ingram. They had Lake and Tomlinson. They had Trent Brown. These are not sure things by any means. There are a bunch of dart throws on a bunch of guys who have really struggled whose teams didn't want them at the end of last season. So I kind of go into this thing being like, all right, let's see. I'll give the offensive coordinator and the offensive line coach a chance here. But I can't say that I love what they've done just from a personnel standpoint this offseason.

Yeah, it seems like they're trying to take resources out of the offensive line. that was a position group that they poured a lot of resources into over the last couple of years, really. They spent high draft picks. They obviously traded for Laramie Tunsell. They paid Laramie Tunsell. And I mean, I honestly don't hate the move because I think some of those bigger names that they acquired just weren't playing well, like including Tunsell. Obviously, the draft picks haven't worked out like they would want. But Tunsell was a bad player last year.

When he wasn't getting called for flags, he wasn't a great player anyway, like when he was just blocking. So I don't hate that move And I think bringing in the new offensive coordinator, you hope, like Deontes said that he's a problem solver. He's not a problem exacerbator like I thought they had last year in Bobby Sloick. So I do think this is a big draft, but I'm not like totally concerned about the direction of the offense.

I think we'll see a better version of C.J. Stroud. And I'm just hoping and praying that we see better play calling out of this team. Just more logical play calling is what I would say. And play calling that doesn't put so much stress on him as a dropback passer. I thought that's how slow it kind of exacerbated those problems most by getting them into down, like disadvantageous down in distances where C.J. Stroud has to drop back. The defensive line knows it and they can pin their ears back and attack that offensive line. And the defensive coordinator could attack that offensive line with stunts and games, which Houston just wasn't very good at picking up last year. So I think the coaching has a chance of really filling in a lot of the gaps we saw last.

year, but I agree with Deontay. They need some picks. They need to start adding guys around CJ Stroud to give him help outside of Nico Collins. Yeah, it's a good reminder of how much things can change one year to just in one offseason. I mean, you know, last offseason, it was like they've got the quarterback, CJ Stroud, all right, this is smart, be aggressive, go add these veterans, go get Stefan Diggs and Daniel Hunter and really, you know, make, make the most of these four to five years with CJ Stroud on a rookie contract. And they still, you know, won the division. They still got to the divisional round. If you just look at the pro football reference page, it looks the same one year to the next, but I don't think anyone feels the same

about them one year to the next. The thing they have going for them is that this defense should still be legit. We talked about it on a recent show that this was an awesome defense last year, and they've still got the personnel to have an awesome defense this year. So you feel like you set the floor a little bit with the defense with the quarterback. You hope the coordinator change, you know, it makes an improvement. But I'm, with Deonti. I mean, if you don't get enough out of this draft class and all of a sudden, we're in week eight next year going, this offensive line still stinks. C.J. Stroud doesn't have a chance. That is going to reflect certainly on the front office. Deonte, when you look at this

division, you know, impromptu, March 27th, are they still the heavy favorites in the division? Do you feel like, no, I don't see much of a difference between them and T-Mex, a little kind of preview for maybe some of the predictions we'll be making in August and September. How do you feel as of March 27? Heavy favorites feels tough to say because they just, they struggled for so much of the 2024 season, but their ceiling is clearly the highest of the four teams in the division. And we have seen them play their best football in the postseason as well.

I don't expect any other AFC South team to really challenge them as it currently stands because the defense is so good, because their quarterback is good, in spite of what we saw in 2024, I expect that to be. the worst of what we see of him on his rookie deal, at least in terms of quality of play, because of the duress that he was under. And I trust their head coach the most in this division as well. They have probably the most things going for them. I still expect, even if we come out of the draft, not being in love with some of the depth pieces

that they've added on day two and day three in the draft to try to help this offensive line, bring in more receiver help, maybe do something at running back as well in case Joe Mixing is hurt again. I still think that I'm going to pick them to win the AFC South, almost sight unseen with the rest of the division because they were head and shoulders above those teams all throughout 2024. Plus 140, Ruiz, so they are the favorites, but Jaguars are plus 250,

Colts are plus 290. So it's kind of bunched there in the AFC South, according to Fandulul. Yeah, I think the Jaguars could challenge them if Liam Cohen is what he was for Tampa Bay, and he brings that sort of offensive setup and makes Trevor Lawrence's life easier. And if Trevor Lawrence has a bounce-back year,

I think there's a chance that he ends next season as the best quarterback in the division, which usually gets you a long way. But I'm with Deontje. I still think Houston is the favorites. They have the surest thing, and that's the defense. I don't think the defense is going anywhere that defensive line is going to be just as dominant. There could be injuries, but I'm not going to factor that into a prediction in March. If everyone's healthy, this is a top five defense, and that's enough to win.

And AFC South that I don't expect to be that good, even if a couple teams do improve. All right. Texans are the first team off the board. Ruiz, who do you have as your first selection for most at stake in the 2025 NFL draft? I'm going to go with Brandon Bean, the GM of the bills. Okay. Yeah, I feel like he's gotten kind of a pass because he has Josh Allen. It's the same pass that any team with an elite quarterback or any GM with an elite quarterback

gets. They just have a wide margin for error where it doesn't, it feels like no matter what they do in the offseason, the team is going to be good. And like go back to last offseason when we were talking about the bills, the Stefan dig straight had just happened. We were lamenting the fact that there was. nothing around Josh Allen. And like, if you look back on the season, that was kind of true.

Like they had to trade for Amari Cooper midseason. He really didn't do anything for them. Keon Coleman was injured for most of the season. He showed some flashes but wasn't really a consistent threat. Same with the tight ends. And Joe Brady obviously came in and fixed that offense line and fixed that run game, but it was still very much a Josh Allen-centric thing. And then on the other side of the ball, we saw the defense kind of struggle too with injuries

and just attrition roster attrition over the years. This team is in desperate need of a good draft, and it's been a while since they've really had a good draft. I mean, I'll give them a pass on last year just because we don't really know what those players are going to look like. But looking back, like Osiris Torrance, Dorian Williams, Cahira Elam, James Cook is a good player, Terrell Bernard's a good player. That was a pretty good draft. But outside of that, they're not finding these, I don't want to say game-changing players, because they are drafting at the bottom of the first round, but they aren't players that you are confident you're going to. to give a second contract to. And I think they need

one of those drafts where they bring in like two or three starters who they can really build around especially on the defensive side. And Brandon Bean has made the point that like, hey, we're drafted at the bottom of the round. It's very hard to find top talent. He used Jamar Chase and T. Higgins as an example, which is ironic because T. Higgins

was a second round pick. And Brandon Bean could have drafted him. But he needs to start hitting on these. You can't keep using that excuse. And at a certain point, we have to be saying, if you're a GM for one of these elite quarterbacks, your job is to make their lives easier. And I felt like they didn't necessarily do that through personnel acquisitions last year.

They did it through coaching with Joe Brady. But I think it's time for being to kind of step up and provide Josh Allen with some weapons. See, I kind of look at it on the other side of the ball with them. I kind of look at it like they, and I know it's very Josh Allen focused, but it is sustainable to me the way they're playing offense. I know they definitely got a lot of turnover, turnover luck last year. in their favor to a very large degree. But I look at their offense and sort of feel like they can play a game tomorrow. And I would think they're going to be a top three, top five offense in the NFL.

It's a luxury. You're right. It's not because, wow, they're putting the quarterback in great position to succeed. But it's a high ceiling offense. It's a high floor offense. It works. I think they can do different things. So I'm actually okay.

I think their offensive line is pretty good. And they've thrown a lot of darts at wide receiver. So I feel like they have enough there. It might not be the way you would say, hey, Bill. the juggernaut offense this way, but they figured it out. To me, I thought the direction you were going to go was on the defensive side of the ball. Yeah. Same.

That definitely is a hole. That definitely is a hole. Yeah. They keep losing in the playoffs because their defense is getting steamrolled. And against that Chiefs offense, which we found out two weeks later, was not that great. They couldn't do anything against that Chief's defense. And I look at what they did here in, you know, in the offseason so far. And it's fine.

You know, they bring back. Greg Rousseau, Matt Milano takes a pay cut. They trade Kyrie alum, who was a big disappointment. They let go of Von Miller, who was one of the worst free agent signings really of the last five or ten years. They got nothing out of him. And I just look at it and go, wait, why is this defense going to be able to hold up next year? Because that's been the key.

Their offense has put together. Now, I know at the end of that game, and we don't have to go back and relitigate that. But for the most part, their offense has not been an issue. And they have a Super Bowl caliber offense. their defense needs to get to a point where the offense, I feel like, at least can have a little bit more margin of error or you can win in different ways, Deontay. And that to me is like, hey, can you, can you add an impactful front seven player in this draft? Can you add a really good corner in this draft? Something like that, because I look at the defensive depth chart and it's like, I don't know.

This still doesn't look like a great unit to me. I'm with you. I mean, we knew what they're restructuring some of the cap game, cap space games that they had to play that they'd probably only have the money to make one real move. And that move was for Joey Bosa, which makes sense because they needed a pure pass rush guy to play opposite Rousseau. I just don't know if Bosa would have been the pick. And honestly, if it were up to me, if I had my brothers, I would have rather cobbled together the Joey Bosa plus Josh Palmer and all that money

and gone and tried to compete for like a DJ Reed or a corner to play opposite Christian Benford, right? Because I think that that's the best version of Buffalo's defense is when they have two corners that they can trust on the perimeter that take stress and strain off their safeties, which we know was an issue throughout the season and definitely was an issue in the postseason. I'm not really concerned about this offense. The offense is not the reason why their season ended in the AFC championship game. If anything, it would have been the reason that they lost in the division around and Baltimore gave them gifts with those turnovers that allowed

them to put up enough early points in that game to kind of hold them off later on. But they need more juice in the secondary. There's no excuse for the way that Kansas City marched the ball up and down the field against them throughout the AFC title game. There's no excuse for how well Baltimore move the ball up and down the field, save for those turnovers in the division around at home in the snow. They need to be able to take care of that side

of the ball. And it's not that they've never had success stories in terms of drafting later on in the developing guys. Christian Benford is one of the best success stories in terms of player development or being able to find a guy late in the draft that exists in the league. So I know that Brandon Bean is capable of it. To me, if there's a stakeholder in this, it's more

also on Sean McDermott. Like, you're a contender now. These are the pieces that you're going to have to deal with. This is life when you're picking 24 and later, right, in the NFL. You're not going to have the best to pick with all the time. You're going to have to take guys that are more projections, guys that are maybe more production over athleticism, and you've got to find a way to drop them into a situation that's going to maximize

their talent. I just look at this defensive depth chart coming out of free agency, and it looks exactly like what we saw in 2024. You've got an aging edge rusher that's supposed to, to be your big money guy, that's supposed to be your ceiling razor that's had injury issues over the last few years. Your defensive backfield has not changed

and it's not necessarily projected to improve, maybe just gets better because Christian Benford is available for longer in the season, assuming he doesn't get hurt. And you know the offense is going to be stable as long as Josh Allen is behind center. I need to see Sean McDermott maybe not make a change

in terms of his approach to defense, but he has got to prove himself as a maximizer again with the group that he has around him. I guess that's why I'm putting it on the offense, just because I think Sean McDermott, that's what you hired him for. That's what you pay him all this money for is to develop that defense. And honestly, I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt. I know they've been bad the last couple of years, but there's been a lot of injuries and they just turned over the defensive roster, the defensive core last year. So I'm going to give him a little more grace with that.

But I do think that the bills on the other side of the ball are in danger of falling into that Chief's territory where, yeah, it's working and it's working. and it's working, then all of a sudden it's not working, and we're all like, what the hell happened to this offense? And then we look back three years, we're like, oh, look at all these moves. We could have seen this happening. And I think there is an element at play here. And I think there's also the element where they can put so much on Josh Allen,

especially in a must-win game and a must-win situation that could shorten his career because they use him as a runner more in those high-leveraged situations. They use them more as a runner in the postseason. I would just like to see him have more help, have a point of reference wide receiver on the outside who you can move around and dictate coverages with. We haven't really seen that since Stefan Diggs kind of fell off two years ago. And I would like to see it. I think that's a better version of the Bill's offense.

And I think it's, I do think the Bill's offense is going to be fine no matter what. Like you guys said, it's a high floor offense. I think it's a high ceiling offense too. But I don't think it's like a juggernaut yet. And until it's a juggernaut, you're not going to be able to make up for the defensive personnel issues on the other side. So I don't know. Maybe I'm just looking a couple of years in advance.

and I am overlooking a very immediate need because the defense is the most immediate need. But I think we're in danger two years from now being like, what happened to the team around Josh Allen? There's definitely reasons to think they're good. The offense will regress next year. Like I said, they turned the ball over at a historically low rate

that, you know, is not sustainable year after year. So you're going to get dinged more there. I believe I would have to double check their offensive line was like one of the healthier offensive lines in the entire NFL. I think it's been that case for two years in a row. So maybe those are just durable guys, but, you know, usually your offensive line depth is going to get tested in the NFL. So I'm with you. There are definitely are reasons. And I would like them a lot more. We even talked to her in the trade deadline last year. Yeah, if you just had that one more piece, kind of the next version of Stefan Diggs, now all of a sudden, Shakir, Cook, Knox, Kincaid, you know, all these guys, Keon Coleman. They all look better in like that role where there's that. Now you're talking about, wow, this is really going to be an unstoppable offense. So I'm with you. I generally lean towards if you've got that quarterback, build the biggest, baddest offense, you know, possible, don't take any chances overinvest. And I do think that comes

into play with this draft. They're in a pretty good spot. According to PFF, they've got the 15th most draft capital in this draft. So even though they're picking late in the first round, when you look at it overall, they do have some resources to work with here. And yeah, it's just about extending that window when you have a guy like Josh Allen and hoping that one of these years you can just kind of break through. So we'll see what happens there. All right, let's take a break. We come back and I will make my first pick. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. Interesting so far with all three of our picks, I feel like we're going with teams that are, you know, pretty good. Decent. We're not saying, hey, this team, and then maybe

we'll get to that in our second pick. But I'm going with the San Francisco 49ers. a team that I feel like we discussed a lot during the season. And then they have had a very quiet offseason other than losing players. You know, they haven't made any major additions. And so we haven't really had a long 49-ish discussion that I can remember. Now, they go into this draft with a league high 11 draft picks, the seventh most draft capital in the entire NFL. And I think it comes at a really interesting time for this franchise, for John Lynch,

for Kyle Shanahan. When you look at it and look at all the players they lost this season, Debo Samuel, Dre Greenlaw, Javan Hargrave, Huffanga, Leonard Floyd, Charvarius Ward. They really have lost guys on both sides of the ball. And I don't necessarily have an issue with them letting any of those guys go. We're trading Debo Samuel. I think that's fine. But now you kind of have to replenish it and say, hey, can we have another run here when we're going to have to pay Brock Purdy potentially a lot of money this offseason? if they do make that deal. Like I do feel like one way or another in the next three years,

we're going to look at this draft and say, they had 11 picks. Oh, they did a great job and these guys came in on rookie contracts and they're back in Super Bowl contention. Or, oh, they had 11 picks and they didn't get enough out of those guys. And now they're paying Brock Purdy $55 million per year and they can't compete with the rest of this roster.

It's just too fragile. So Ruiz, that's why I've got the 49ers. I think this is a very, very big spot for this franchise right now. Yeah, I had the 49ers on my list too, and I could have picked like any number of people from this organization to pick. I think you can make Kyle Shanahan the main stakeholder, just how that season kind of ended. And just the talk surrounding Kyle Shanahan by the end of the year with 49ers fans kind of pushing back against this genius tag and wondering if he's the guy to lead San Francisco to another Super Bowl title. And there seems to be some tension with him and ownership. And I don't know where John Lynch fits in there, but he's definitely in there.

I think you could make Brock Purdy a stakeholder in this draft because let's say they don't get a deal done and they kind of play the franchise tag game with him. And the offense takes a major step back personnel-wise, which on paper it looks like they're going to do right now as things stand in March. And then he doesn't play well for a second straight year. I mean, he was okay last year. But if he doesn't play well next year, then there are question marks about his contract negotiations. And then on the other side of the ball, the defense was horrendous at times last year. And you talked about all the personnel they lost in the offseason. and so you could put Robert Salo, the defensive coordinator in there.

You put so many guys on this list. So this is a good pick for you, and I'm going to have to come up with another pick. Yeah, this is why we had backups, you know, Deonté. But this Niners team, it's interesting. If you look at it, like they are actually an intriguing bounceback candidate, I think, for 2025. I was looking at the fan dual odds. They have the third highest odds to come out of the NFC. So there are some reasons, Deonté, to think, all right, that would.

That was a season where things went poorly for them. Who's ahead of them? The Seahaw? I think the Lions and the Eagles, I want to say. Oh, I thought you said the NFC. I thought you meant the NFC West. I was very shocked. No, no, to get to the Super Bowl.

Yeah, to get to the Super Bowl out of the NFC. Eagles are first. Lions are second. And then it does take a while to get to the 49ers, but 49ers are third, then commanders, then commanders. Deonté, when you look at this draft and you look at kind of the state of the 49ers, does that surprise you? Do you feel like, hey, with a good draft?

here, they get some young players in there that they can come back, or are you more skeptical? I think similar to what you were saying with Buffalo, right? We're like, oh, we might look up in October. And it's like, oh, wow, they made the pivot that they needed to make. The draft picks have hit. The offense is back to being where it needs to be. The defense is now stable again. And this looks like a Super Bowl contender, you know, in a way that it didn't in 2024.

I think the same thing exists for the 49ers, right? And this is not just a, hey, they'll get healthy and everything will be fine. because they own so much draft capital, I think that they're in a pretty strong position to be able to kind of backfill some of this roster with the depth that they need, with the juice that they need on both sides of the ball. I think that because of the injuries,

we have a chance to see Kyle Shanahan make another pivot in terms of how we approach his offense. Ricky Pearsall is definitely a different style of receiver than Debo Samuel, and he's going to be stepping in now to playing maybe in a slot position to be more of a move-around guy. We saw a pretty big breakout early in the season from Joanne Jennings, more of a big-bodied ball-winning type of receiver.

And if you have a healthy Brandon Iuke, that allows Brock Predley to do what I think he wants to do and what he does best, which is operating the drop-back game. And I think that if they're able to find anything with this offensive line around Trent Williams to where they can play more of your drop-back passing game, you don't have to rely on an aging more often injured Christian McCaffrey. you don't have to rely on your under center run game as much. You don't have to put as much in the run game on your aging left tackle in Trent Williams.

I think the offense can pretty clearly, pretty quickly be able to be at a top 12, top 10ish level because Kyle Shanahan always puts together efficient passing attacks. And then on the other side of the ball, to me, this is just getting more guys who can run, honestly, very similar to what we were talking about with Buffalo. There were so many games watching the 49ers where you could just look at the defensive backfield and see, like, oh, man, these guys just can't, they just can't keep up. up, guys aren't keeping pace. Fred Warner is still diagnosing things in the run game, but he doesn't have enough around

them. The defensive interior is being caved in. He doesn't have Dre Greenlaw playing on his side that can also be a gap plugger that allows him to go roam. I think that they can use a lot of this draft capital. And this is a great draft, I think, for the needs that San Francisco has in terms of interior offensive line, in terms of interior the defensive line, in terms of defensive backfield, there are a lot of opportunities, I think, for them to be able to make quick

jumps with young guys who can contribute, if not be outright starters. And like you said, I mean, the NFC West was not a murderer's role last year. And it doesn't look like it's going to be a murderers role this year either. They can very quickly walk in and say, hey, we might have the second best. We might have the second best quarterback here, but the combination between our quarterback and head coach can give us the best offense in this division. And if this defense steps forward, they can pretty clearly or quickly be the best defense in the division as well.

And they can end up going 10 and 7. having a home game in the postseason. And now they might be a couple wins away from being right back in position like they were in 2020. I can definitely see that happening for this team. It won't look like what it looked like in 2020. In terms of explosiveness and in terms of lockdown defense on early downs or on third downs with the blitzin and the man stuff or at the peak of the Robert Sala era in 2018, 2019.

But I do think that this team can pretty clearly be a contender in the NFC because the rest of the conference is weekend because they should be healthy and have an opportunity to add some needed depth. They're one of those teams that like alternate every year. Like they go from bad to good to bad to good, the bad to good. And so it's almost like, I attribute that to Kyle Shanahan, not like the bad part because I think a lot of it is always injuries with them. But the bounce back year, I think, is always Kyle kind of assessing what went wrong with

the offense in particular and fixing that. And then doing it on the defensive side too. But I do worry like, I know Deonti said they can kind of shift away from that Christian McCaffrey-centric offense. but I do worry, like, how hard is that going to be? I think we forget, like, how important this guy was to the success of the offense two years ago. Like, everything was built around him. He was, like, the precursor to what we saw in Philadelphia was San Juan Barclay,

and to a lesser extent with Baltimore and Derek Henry, because they obviously had Lamar Jackson in the backfield, too. I mean, and I don't even know what to say. Like, how do you prepare for this? Like, how do you know how he's going to bounce back from this injury? Is he going to stay healthy going forward? I mean, if I was the 49ers, I'd be looking into very, like, backstreet methods of finding a way to keep this guy healthy. Like, tow the line of violating the PED policy with this guy.

Well, he did take the European trip, right? Last year. We need a European trip. Go back to Germany. Even more secretive this time. We need something. I've made this joke on Twitter, but the NFL should allow each team to designate a PED user for the roster. And if it was the 49ers, it'd be a no-brainer.

And I think he would make the difference between a fringe playoff contender and a Super Bowl contender. If we get 2023 Christian McCaffrey, this team is not going to have any promise. Oh, they're going to the NFC championship. They're going to that. Yeah. No doubt in my mind. And Brockford is signing for $60 million because everyone's going to give him the credit for it. Yeah, they traded Jordan at running back.

You know, I was looking at adjusted games lost, which is now on FTN. And the 49ers last year, I think this is one of the reason people are bullish on them bouncing back is that they were the most injured. team in the NFL last year. Now, they've had a lot of those seasons, actually, if you look at it, over, I've had a lot of analysis over, like, the last 10 years that's like, they can't be this injured again this year. And then they end up being very injured. So I don't want to act like it's definite that they're going to be healthier. But they were the second most injured team on offense and the third most injured team on defense. And like their running back room was one of the most injured running back rooms, like since they started charting this, whatever it was.

That's a trend, though. That's a trend with this, not only Kyle Shanian, but Mike McDaniel too. I think part of it is the fact that they're so good at getting these guys out into space and running and accelerating that they have a lot of violent collisions and they're probably more injured. I wonder if there's a way to measure that. Yeah, that would be interesting to see if that's other than the measurement that their running backs are always injured. I mean, McAfry was injured in Carolina. So, sure. I mean, they have suffered a lot of injuries, but they got guys that get injured a lot. Like, injured guys get injured. It is a trait. It is a trait. It is a, a, a, skill is injury prevention. And Christian McCaffrey, Trent Williams, these guys have had trouble staying healthy, and they're the most important players on the offense right now.

I will say this for more 49ers optimism. Even last year when it felt like so much was going wrong for them, the numbers paying a pretty, I know it's not all numbers, but the numbers paint a pretty interesting picture where they were ninth in offensive DVOA ahead of the Rams, ahead of the Eagles, ahead of the Vikings. I think if you asked 100 diehard NFL fans if that was the case. I don't think most people would have guessed that 13th in EPA per drive, 11th in success rate. So I know I like Purdy more than Ruiz likes Purdy, but I feel like this Purdy-Shanahan battery, it has a pretty high floor.

Like that was a year where Christian McCaffrey played four games. IUC played seven games. Debo Samuel didn't look right. Trent Williams played 10 games. And they were like mediocre to slightly above that average. Now, I think a lot of that was, I feel like the first eight, 10 games of the season. It was like they looked good. And they definitely took a nose dive and Purdy was not playing as well once they went down the stretch there.

But I still think they have a pretty high ceiling, which is why I'm kind of bullish on them. Let's give more credit to Shanahan, though, for that. Let's, you know, Nick Mullen's average eight yards per attempt in this offense. Nick Mollins. Let's remind, let's remember that. And they didn't have any superstars on the offense back then. All right. There you go.

All right. That's the 49ers with a lot at stake. Deontay, go ahead. What do you have for your second pick? Man, it's interesting. I feel like we're all a common theme. I'm noticing are these guys who are off the Shanahan tree because my second one is Chris Greer in the Miami Dolphins. This is another team that has kind of hung around pretty quietly that hasn't really attracted much attention. And I feel like that's really an insult when you look at

their too deep because they have so many needs on both sides of the ball. You look at their defensive line room, it's effectively four guys. And of those four guys, Zach Seeler might be the only one that you actually trust on a down-and-down basis. Their edge room has been hurt over the last couple of years, especially last season between Bradley Chubb, Jalen Phillips. And you hope that those guys are more available next year. But these are also two guys who have had injury issues before,

guys that are getting up there in age, you know. So those are people you have to be concerned with. Jalen Ramsey is getting older. You don't really see him in the slot. I think a lot of that is because he's taking so much. punishment as a tackler. You kind of want to protect him. And I think that maybe the move to safety might be coming if he's going to continue to extend his career as well. Because I do think that he's kind of losing half a stride too. If you look at how he played the ball last year,

how he looked in tight coverage, how often they had to play a little bit looser in coverage because of what Jalen Ramsey looked like last season. Their safety room, I like Ifay Melifon Roo. I don't think he's a world changer defensively. Ashton Davis can run. I don't think he's a world changer defensively either, though. You have Duck Storm playing at corner. I could just run down the list on that side of the ball of needs that they need to address on all three levels. And then offensively, this is another offseason where they did not improve this offensive line at all. I don't, we don't know how much longer Toronto Arfshed is going to play or how many games he can play in a season when he is available. And I know that he's been fighting a

lot with his injury history to stay available. And I know he wants to finish out this contract. That's been something that he's been pretty open about, right? He doesn't want to think about what his future is going to be until he finishes out this contract. And I would like, like to see him play because when he plays, he's still a pretty good left tackle and he's a pretty good fit for what the dolphins want to do. But they just have so many depth issues. There's a lot that's going to be riding on Tua being available, being at his best. And this could very quickly go from, oh, remember the dolphins that looked really bad in September and October and they rallied late in the season and got close to a team that is now completely out of the contention picture if they don't

nail this draft. Where are we with Mike McDaniel? I know Deontes somehow Chris, Greer. Ruiz, where are we with the Mike McDaniel? I said mine in season. I'm out. You're out. Okay, Deiante's out. I remember that. You caught Ruiz by surprise with that, right? He was a little offended that you said. I'm on the fence. So let's see where Ruiz comes in on this. Because this is a weird franchise to analyze where it's just like, all right, their floor, I think is going to be pretty high because the offense isn't going to be a complete dumpster fire. At the same time, I see no scenario where they are. actually competing for anything significant in January. So I just don't know what to do with them, Ruiz. Oh, I totally disagree with that.

I think if Tua stays healthy, this team has a high ceiling. Like, I don't think it has a Super Bowl ceiling. I don't think they're going to be able to win a Super Bowl, but I think they'll win 10, 11 games. That's high to me. I'm still very much high on Mike McDaniel. I know last year wasn't the best year. But that's what happens when you build an offense around a quarterback-specific strengths,

and then that quarterback can't stay healthy. And then they went all in on that. this quarterback. And we saw the attrition on the defensive side, and they're starting to lose guys all over the roster. That's the danger of going all in without an all-in quarterback. And I just don't think Tua is that type of, you can pay them like one, but that doesn't make him one. But can I argue that if you're a great offensive coach and you know your quarterback gets injured every year, that there should be a better plan than the plan? You just mentioned it with Nick Mullins. Shouldn't there be a better plan that, hey, if this guy misses a month, can we keep the thing afloat? I mean, their offense is a

complete disaster. But he's such a unique quarterback. Like, we don't see anybody else like him in the NFL. Nobody throws the ball as quickly as him. Nobody throws with some will call it anticipation. I say he guesses a little or predetermines a little. Nobody gets rid of the ball like that. So they run a very unique offense because of it.

And when you spend the whole offseason building around that type of quarterback and then he gets hurt, like what are you supposed to do? Like you put in Tyler Huntley and you hope for the best. Like, at least with Shanahan, he has a very, he has a very specific preference for quarterbacks. And like Nick Mullins, what do you want to say about Nick Mullins and Brock Purdy and comparing them,

but they're like in the same bucket of quarterback, at least, at the very least. My pushback is, and this is not an apples to apples comparison because the worlds that they live in in terms of the offensive line are totally different. But to me throughout the season,

the reason why I was critiquing Kellyn Moore, as hard as I was critiquing Kellyn Moore is, you don't get to say, Jalen Hertz is a certain kind of quarterback, and we're building our offense a certain kind of way, around our quarterback specific skill sets when you have Devante Smith and A.J. Brown playing outside. To me, one of the reasons why I struggle with Mike B. Daniel at the time

is because you have Tyree Kill and Jalen Waddle and John Hussmith. And not to say that they were not productive because they certainly were. A lot of it is because their defense had struggles last year and they couldn't run the ball on early down. So there were a lot of obvious passing situations for them to be able to build up volume for Johnny Smith and Tyree killed throughout the year while those guys are available. But I do expect more from Mike McDaniel's offense.

I think that it has maybe become a little bit one note because they've been all in. So I will definitely submit to what you're saying in some respect, Stephen, right, that they have built a very specific version of this outside zone perimeter offense, but we need to do it out of the gun because that's the best way for Tua to be able to access the parts of the field that he needs to in the play action and RPO game. My mind is open to that. But to me, I would have liked to have seen last year what we saw from Kyle Shanahan when he didn't have Christian McCaffrey. last season. And it was like, all right, we've got to get into a dropback world, which is not a comfortable place for us to be. But Brock Peretti, I'm going to allow you to go cook,

more or less. And we did see for the first two months of the year, they were able to be explosive in a way that I didn't expect them to be able to do with the offensive line looking the way it did. And some of the struggles of San Francisco had with staying healthy and running the ball early in the year. I just don't know if I've seen that yet from Mike McDaniel, at least not in a way that washes away some of the questions that I have about him as a play caller on a week-by-week basis. And I just don't know if he's necessarily maximized anything other than to a tugga by law when I look at this offense. No, I think that's fair. And he's the one that chose the quarterback. He's the one that put his faith into. I'm sure if he went to the front

office and it's like, I can't win with this guy. They wouldn't have paid him all that money. I don't know. But it sounds like that. It sounds like he's very confident into it. Maybe that's just him speaking in public. But at the same time, like yeah, Shanahan did better with spare parts last year. But he had his quarterback. He didn't lose his quarterback. That's fair. He didn't have to play Tyler Huntley, who I'm sorry. He's not an NFL quarterback. Every NFL game he starts is a miracle. And they performed pretty well with him down the stretch, at least in some game.

So I don't know. I'm willing to get it on the relative. Pretty well. I would have to go back and remember. I don't, I don't, I don't, my, the, like, feeling in my body was like, I don't think that's right, but I don't really remember any of those games. So I can't just. As a power rankings guy, I can tell you, pretty well, it's very relevant.

Yeah. And it's very old enough to Tomlily. The bar is in hell when it comes to that. But I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for that one season, especially with the way this offense has to be built. It's not his fault that the quarterback can't go under center. It's not his fault that the quarterback can't function at for two seconds. And it's not his fault.

Well, I guess it's partly his fault that they paid him $60 million or $50 million a year. So they're stuck with them for now. I still think if he's healthy, the offense is going to be top 10. And I guess that's why Chris Greer is a real stakeholder for me. Like, I don't want that to be lost. the conversation like the rubber is kind of meeting the road with them in terms of their financials because they've gone all in to go acquire Tyree Kill because they paid both Hill and Waddle and now the Tua contract I think these are going to be the toughest years if I remember

right but looking at the details of his contract is 2025 and 2026 and I think that maybe after this year they can kind of revisit some things if they wanted to renegotiate and extend but that means now you have to have the conversation about do we want to tack on three four more years on this deal to spread out the cap number just to kind of, you know, kick this ball down the road. I don't know if too is the kind of quarterback that you want to do that with. And if that's the thing that you're faced with now, you're effectively looking at 2025 as that everything has to go right season. And as I detailed when we open the segment, the rest of the roster is not ready for them to make a run in the AFC. They're not even close, in my opinion, to where Baltimore,

Buffalo, even Kansas City for as much as I've lamented, their roster issues. I don't think that they can compete with Cincinnati right now in a playoff environment. There are a lot of teams that I think that I legitimately hold, you know, the Chargers, the Broncos, the teams that have made the AFC playoffs last year, if they would have had to match up with Miami, I don't think that they would have had any problem dealing with them on either side of the ball. And I have not seen enough yet to change that picture for me. Fully healthy Cincinnati versus fully healthy Miami, I think they compete. I think those teams score a lot of points and it's a close game. That's the one team I'd push back. I totally agree with it. Where are we playing? That probably matters.

teams, the three powers in the FACU? Yeah, that really matters. That's true too. But with the three teams in the NFC, the ones that have the quarterbacks that are always going to be there as long as those guys are healthy, like that's a different story. I totally agree with you. They're not competing with those teams. And those are the teams

you should be chasing, not the Bengals, who didn't make the playoffs last year, much to Sheel's sugar in. Yeah, I'm glad, you know, Deonté, you brought it back to Gurk because as you, we were having that conversation about the backup quarterback, and Ruiz is talking about Tyler Huntley. I went and took a look

and reminded myself about Zach Wilson. is there. Backup quarterback right now. Like, what are we doing guys? It might be the best backup quarterback they've had in the Tua era, and I don't know what that says about a quarterback. I know what it's rarely healthy. Yeah, I mean, I don't understand. It just goes back to get on the same page.

If you're going to invest in Tua and you feel, and it's hard because you feel like, hey, we can build a good offense with him and it's not like you can just go out and get a great quarterback. Then you should also be making the decision that, hey, we need to be buttoned up with our backup so that if there are four, five, six games a year where we don't have this guy. We need to have a play. Like that should be number one on the priority list. We need to have a plan for our offense staying afloat. We've got the wide receivers. We feel like we have a smart offensive coach. You should be able to get something out of this offense with another

quarterback. And they're going from Tyler Huntley to Zach Wilson here. And who is the other guy? They started in a playoff game. Remind me you. Skyler Thompson. Oh, Skyler Thompson. It's like, what are we doing here? Get on the same page. So yeah, I think you're smart to bring that back to Greer. And yeah, I'm just looking at their depth chart. And it's like, other than wide receiver, where is this team above average? I mean, you could make the case edge rush if Jalen Phillips and Bradley Chubb are healthy, but I'm with you. It's a fragile, not very talented roster with a not very good offensive line with the number one wide receiver who we talked about the day after their last loss. We thought he wasn't going to

be in Miami anymore. And by the way, I wouldn't put it at 100 percent that he's definitely going to be there. He didn't play very well last year either. Yeah, yeah, on the decline in his 30s, your vertical threat, left tackle who may retire. I mean, there's just, yeah, yeah, there's a lot with this roster that it's saying all that. Would anybody here be surprised if they had a top five offense last year? No, and I guess the issue to me and the reason why this is really pertinent to Greer is, I don't think a top five offense alone is enough to get this team where it wants to go. That's true.

Especially because that top five offense comes with an asterisk in January. Exactly, exactly. September, October, yes, it just feels like a phony fake, you know. But you're right, you know, you look up at the end of the year and we can guess where they're going to be if he's healthy. But yeah, it's probably not going to be enough. And that's why I'm split on McDaniel. I'm like, I'm like, all right, like if I had to hire an offensive coach, like if he got

fire next year and I was like, I need to hire an offensive coach, I think he would be pretty intriguing. In terms of where this team is right now, I'm like, they kind of bore me. I don't think they're going to do anything. Look, if he's on the market, I'd rather have him. I'd rather have him than Stuyken in Indianapolis. Wow. Stike brings.

Yeah, let's go. It's just taking a straight. It's not necessarily that I think that he can never be successful. Like, I'm out on Mike McDaniel, specific to the conditions that exist in Miami. I don't know if he can make more, but already exist. To me, the issue with Greer is that he's been running personnel since 2016.

You go look at the draft history since 2016. How many players have gotten a second contract that he's drafted in Miami? and how many guys that are currently on rookie deals in Miami do you think, you know, kind of merit a second contract? They had 11 picks in the draft where they got Tua Tua Tuna Vailoa. I don't know if anybody other than Tua has really contributed to winning for them since he's been there. That's a big issue for a guy that's had this job for almost a decade now. There is very little to show for what he's done in terms of trying to build out this roster.

And even Tua, which has to be considered a hit, I guess at this point, like there were three quarterbacks that are probably better than him that were drafted after him. Yeah, no, it's a good point. I feel like that's definitely the longest dolphins conversation we've ever had, right? On the show? I mean, listen, this is the offseason. Every team gets a little shine in the off season. All right, let's take a break.

We come back. We get to Ruiz's second team and my second team. All right, we're back on the ringer NFL show, Ruiz. I took the 49ers from you. Do you have a backup in mind? Who do you got? Yeah, my other backup was the dolphins. I'm kind of good brass and straws here,

but I'm going to go with Joe Burrow. And Joe Burrow, not the Bengals quarterback. I'm going with Joe Burrow, the GM, who is officially the GM after this offseason. It's always hard to say who the GM is in Cincinnati because you have Duke Tobin, you have the Browns, and it's kind of a by-to-mitty situation. But no, it's Joe Burrow now because he does what they say. They finally paid his two-out receivers. But obviously now comes the hard part when it comes to the roster building, especially filling out the defense. I think we could just give up on the idea of them upgrading the offense anymore.

Like I know Bengals fans have dreams of a top-five offensive line. I don't think we're ever going to see that in Cincinnati. That's just not where they're pushing their resources. They have Joe Burrow, who's a quarterback and get the ball out quickly. They also have Joe Burrow, who's a quarterback who makes his offensive line job a little harder at times because he likes to hold onto the ball. It's admirable, but it does make his offensive lines job harder. But it's all on the defensive side. We need a lot of pieces.

I think they need a plan at defensive end with the Hendrickson thing up there. Obviously, Hubbard retires. That was kind of a weak spot anyway last year. defensive tackle, they seem to address that in free agency, but the back end of this defense, which is really where we've seen them fall off since that Super Bowl run, since the peak of the Big Lou era, they just need to hit. I don't know what else to say about it. I guess they're chalking it up to a coaching issue, or maybe they're just saying we have to move on from Anirumo, but we need more talent in the secondary. If they don't have more talent, I don't think any coach

is going to be able to figure that out. So it's a big draft for them. They need like a, not quite a 2017 saint strap, but somewhere along those lines. Two quality defensive starters in this draft. And if that doesn't happen, then I think we're going to be looking at season similar to what we saw last year. Not to that extreme where they're scoring 40 points and giving up 41 seemingly every week, but where the defense is an issue and you're going into the postseason and being like, all right, we have the offense, but can these guys hold up against Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Patrick Holmes? Yeah, no doubt.

It's like you said, it's not, hey, get to one of the worst. defenses in the NFL to one of the best. It's like, get to a point where you can give the offense a chance. That's sort of when you brought back T. Higgins, that was kind of the decision you made as an organization that we want to keep. The 2021 defense is the bar, right? That was not like a great defense. I know they went on a run in the postseason, but that was like around the league average.

Yeah. Mediocre that can come up big in some, you know, in some spots there that has that ceiling against a good team. I think that's where you want to get to. And you're right. I mean, they've got what the 17th overall pick here. They're 20th in draft capital. And you just kind of look at the defensive depth chart, you know, 2023, you spend a first round

pick on Miles Murphy. 2022, you spend a first round pick on Dax Hill. So I've made the point before where they've tried to get ahead of it. And it's not like they're investing in the wrong areas. They just haven't hit. And sometimes draft analysis is that simple. If you hit on those two picks and you have a corner who's really good and you have a pass rusher who's really good, now you can bring back Trey Hendrickson.

And it's like, hey, there should be enough here to work with to get to a competent defense, but they haven't hit so far. And so now you're in a very different spot. So yeah, Deonti, they're in this weird spot. I feel like you usually don't have this where it's just like throw resources at the defense. Now, you don't want to reach for guys, but really you go into this draft being like, all right, O line and defense. That's what we're looking at here.

Throw resources as many as you can. Trade down if you have to. Get a bunch of dark throws and get some players so that you can feel the competition. in defense. I think you laid out the condition that matters most, right? Which is that if some of these swings that they've taken on young defenders had hit, you can look at a 31-year-old, Tray Hingerton, and say, hey, I'm not going to take, I'm not going to take this contract out until you're 34, but at least for the next year or two, we'll pay, we'll give you the 28, you know, we'll give you the $28 million in annual value. I'm not going to top you out in the 30s, but we'll pay you, we'll try

to front-load it. The same way they did with T. Higgins's deal is going to have to be team-friendly if you want multiple years, but we'll pay you to take another chance. But because this defense has been set so far back and you're looking at the age profile for Trey Hendrickson, this is maybe the last year if you were to trade him that you can get a genuine return. You might be able to get a second round pick back for this guy. And maybe that allows you to do what I think this team should do, which is double dip in the first round.

I think if you can go get a day two pick and now you've got enough, you know, kind of top 100 draft capital to be able to cobble together to maybe get. back in in the back end of the first round. Now you might be able to go find two difference makers to where you're not reaching, as you said, Sheel, now I can look and say, best defensive player available in the middle of the first round, best defensive player available on the back end of the first round. And we might be able to get two starters out of that. And I think that Bengals fans could look at that, even if you wanted to keep Hendrickton there

because there's more cost certainty and there's more certainty in terms of on-field production right now, you've got to be honest and say, we can't pay this guy the way that he wants to be paid and deserves to be paid at this stage in his career, but we can maybe take a pivot and be able to build this defense the way that we need to, to get back to that 14th to 18th range, which is where they need to be assuming that this offense is as good as we know it can be when those guys are healthy. Yeah. Does Joe Burrow get in the draft room, Ruiz?

What do you think? He should be making some of these. Yeah, he should run off the pick. He should call the prospect whoever they draft. He should be the one calling them on the other line. but I'm kind of bullish on this offseason for them. Like I think,

and maybe this is just based on nothing at all, but like they're due. Like we always talk about the draft, the draft as a crapshoot, and like you keep throwing darts at the dartboard. Eventually you're going to hit. They can't just keep whiffing on these picks for five years in a row.

They have three picks in the top 81 picks this year. Use it all on defense. And I think eventually they'll find some starters. You have a chance. Yeah, they've got a chance. I have no issue with the way they've built it this this offseason. They figured out the hard part. The hard part is the offense.

You're in a good spot there. It doesn't mean it's definitely going to work, but I think that was the right path for them. And now you see what you can do defensively. All right. My last one. So I was picking between among teams here that we've talked about before. You know, like Deante said in the beginning, you know, we don't want to repeat conversations. But I felt like some of these we couldn't get away from.

The Browns, obviously, our team. we're going to continue to talk about between now and the draft. The Giants are a team that we're going to continue to talk about between now and the draft. So Joe Shane, Andrew Barry, certainly a lot at stake. But I came back to a team we've talked a bunch about, and I just feel like we can't have the conversation without mentioning John Schneider and the Seattle Seahawks. I mean, they have been the team of the offseason. When you sit back and kind of look at the last year here for the Seattle Seahawks,

fire Pete Carroll, which I was thinking back, remember when they announced that, It was kind of like Pete Carroll's going to move into a different role or something. And you're like, really? What? Is he going to the front office? And then a week later it was like, nope, Pete Carroll has moved out of the building and is now teaching a class at USC. So that was just a year ago. They had the season with Mike McDonald.

And just think of all the things John Schneider, now who has full 100 percent undebatable control has done, traded the quarterback, traded wide receiver one and signed the biggest contract of any player. in free agency this offseason, which was Sam Darnold. They also made an offensive coordinator change. Think about all those things in one off season. Quarterback, wide receiver one, offensive coordinator, new quarterback. That's a lot. So I was looking at that, wondering, does he feel like, I don't know how long I'm going to have here? They had that weird ownership situation where he may not know, hey, if I'm going to go down,

I'm going to go down swinging. I'm not, I don't want to have regrets a year or two from now that, hey, I was a little cautious, a little conservative, and that cost me my job. So I'm going to go down making the moves, I think, can help this team. So we made those moves, and we've talked about it before. I think there was a plan on paper. I can say, okay, I understand why you do this. I don't think it's going to work out.

I don't like the plan, but I understand the plan. But now you go into the draft and you have five picks in the top 100, and can you fill some of these holes on the roster? They have not added a starting offensive linemen this offseason. And John Schneider has been pretty outstead. spoken that these guards that get paid in free agency, you're paying more than what you get for them. It's not a good investment. And I don't necessarily think he's wrong about that, but then you got a hit in the draft. If you want to do it your way, you can do it your way.

And they've got five starters on rookie contracts, but it's a bad offensive line when you're giving up the most quick pressures in the NFL. And so I feel like he goes into this draft with a lot on the line where there's a scenario where if he nails it in this draft and we're looking at it going, man, they're getting contributions from these. rookies and Sheel was wrong and, you know, old takes exposed. He said they were going to stink. And now Sam Donald's got him in playoff contention. That's within the realm of possibilities. It's also within the realm of possibilities that if they have a bad draft and this thing goes sideways, is he a guy who in December, the writing's on the wall? And it's like, all right,

you're keeping Mike McDonald, but now you bring in a new GM who's aligned with him and you kind of start over once again. So I do think John Schneider, when I'm looking at the GMs who have a lot of pressure this offseason, this moment in time, this draft Deontay, he absolutely has to be near the top of the list. 1,000 percent. You know, the one thing that's harder to get return on investment on one than bringing in interior offensive linemen at market value, drafting day three interior offensive linemen and thinking that you're just going to get starter value from those guys.

There's a reason why they're day three picks. And they have had so long of a history now of trying to take those swings on guys and hoping that a guard can turn into something. in the fourth round, in the fifth round, in the sixth round. You look at their depth chart, and it's full of those guys along the interior. And it's okay to take chances on them at times, but that can't be the entire team-building strategy there. They have left themselves, in spite of the spending that they've done on the offensive side of the ball, they still have left themselves with a bunch of needs on that end. I look at the defense,

and I kind of trust Mike McDonald to make something out of this group. I still like the defensive backfield. I think keeping Ernest Jones was a good move for them, having to Marcus Lawrence there on your kind of vet prove it deal. I think that McDonald, coming from that Ravens Tree, knows exactly how to maximize a veteran aging edge rusher. We saw that with Leonard Williams on the interior last year, is able to get the most out of him again. So I trust that side of the ball.

And I think that we made this note, and I know I've heard this in other national coverage. I know that our buddy Nina Kimes has definitely made this point. You're turning over a whole lot of trust to Clint Kubiak after what was effectively two weeks worth of good tape in New Orleans and then a whole lot of the rest of the year, man. Like, I don't know if I trust just because he knows Sam Darnold and trust Sam Darnold knows the verbiage of this offense, that that means that you can build it, how Clint Kubiak wants it built.

I don't know. I do look at John Schneider now and I'm looking at him and I'm looking at the way that they've approached this offseason and wondering, do you really have your hands on the wheel the way that you're supposed to? Like, was this just a piece? operation. I thought that this is a lockstep type of situation. And since Pete has left the building and it's just been you, all I've really seen is you guys wash the building away with all the Pete Carroll culture stuff and not anything from a

roster building perspective that makes me feel like I can trust you in 2025 and beyond. It almost feels like a Chip Kelly in Philadelphia situation when he got the power from Harry Roseman. And Harry Roseman was like exile to some other job in the organization. And Chip just went to town on the roster and made a, bunch of moves. Sam Sam Bradford, he brings him in, he trades Nick Foles, he brings into Marco Murray, Keiko Alonzo,

Biden, Maxwell, all these freaking names. You're right, actually. We don't think about that because Schneider was the GM and is the GM. But if this were, like, if this were a new coach who came in and had all the power and did this, you're right. That's exactly the conversation we would be having with these moves. What happened to Chip after that fell

apart in 2015? He got fired. He got kicked out of town real quick. And like, I agree with Deonté, like, if this is bad in like a year from now, and I agree with you, Sheel, like, we could be having awkward conversations about John Schneider, and we could be relitigating who was the more important piece of building that roster. But I do think it's kind of like Schneider trying to play the hits again. Like he built up this team, the Legion of Boom team with a bunch of draft picks, and they're kind of doing the same thing now. They have 10 draft picks. They have five in the top 100,

like you said. They could reshape this roster. But if they don't hit on these picks, then next year, the roster is going to be looking pretty barren after the moves they made this offseason. Well, and the thing to me was like trying to build the Shanahan offense, trying to reverse engineer the Shanahan tree of offense. We've never seen it be elite without multiple elite playmakers. That's the issue. That's a good point. You have to have a top-in play caller, which I don't know Clint Kubiak is. You don't necessarily have to have a star quarterback. So I do think that Sam Donald is fine, especially once we got the contract details and we realize this is really kind of a hey, go prove, we'll pay you like you're a real quarterback in year one.

Now go prove you're a real quarterback to get paid in years to come. So I think that that's fine. But they don't have anything on the offensive line that makes you think they can be a dominant run game. I don't know enough about Clint Kubiak, as we mentioned. And you look at the wide receiver room. And I'm like, if this is what you were going to do after trading away D.K. Metcalf, I might have just kept D.K. Metcalfe. You know?

So I'm not sure how to feel about them. I think that when we had other conversations about three agency and previous podcasts, I said that their grade was a little incomplete, right? Because it is possible, given their top 100 draft capital, that they walk out with multiple contributors on the offensive side of the ball that are young and on a different timeline. And I might feel differently, especially if they find guys that can play along the offensive line

and you're able to get healthy play out of Charles Cross and it looks closer to what he looked like in the first couple months of his rookie season. It might be fine, right? It could totally be fine. And I think that fine is a fine bar to cross or to try to cross for this team, given where their roster is at and given the fact that regardless of whether Gino and D.K. were here or not, I don't know if I would have considered them Super Bowl contenders. This is just a really tight needle to thread for me if you're trying to make a year, a year, a year year or a year year of year a year year. It would be totally different if the conversation was. John Snyder says, hey, we're kind of tearing it down. I know this is not a full-blown rebuild, but we're going to take our medicine for a year, try to recuperate some draft capital. And it will take real swings that rebuild in this offense and a different image in 2025 and 2026. You know, that would be different to me. This feels like a guy that thinks that this is enough to compete, and this is not enough

to compete with the rest of the NFC. When you sign Cooper Cup, that, that's the giveaway, right? Right. You don't, you don't, I'm with you. Like, when they traded Gino Smith and D.K. Metcalfe, I said, okay, let me see here. If that's the move, they just feel like, hey, we don't have the ceiling. Some of you think we have with these guys, we're going to move on, get something while we can. That, I think, would have been a plan where I would have said, all right, I can be on board with that.

But then you do that, then you sign Darnold, then you sign Cooper Cup. Now it reads to me like a team that thinks we're going in a different direction, but we still feel like we're going to be good right now. And we can be competitive right away. I mean, at the minimum, it feels like they need a starting caliber wide receiver and a starting caliber, like, quality offensive linemen in this draft. Which, you know, on B, you're like, oh, that's it. but then you look back at draft history and it's not that easy to do that. I mean, they could do that.

But yeah, right now they've got Jackson Smith and Jigba, Cooper Cup, and Marquez Valdes Scantling and Jake Bobo. And yeah, I've seen a lot about, you know, Clint Kubiak can scheme around this offense. Let me see that. For everything we've said about Mike McDaniel, I do believe you can give him kind of any five offensive linemen in the NFL

and he's still going to have a pretty eye. He's proven that. They haven't had a lot of talent there. Shanahan's proven that. McFey's proven that. Kubiak has not proven that. And so I don't know that he's going to come in and implement these fixes, specifically with a quarterback who held onto the football more than almost any quarterback in the NFL last year.

So there's a lot of moving pieces, a lot to figure out there for the Seattle Seahawks in this draft. We'll see what they end up doing. We'll see what this roster looks like once we get to September. All right. We hit on a bunch of it. That was good. I feel like we had some changeups in there. there, some teams that we haven't given enough attention to, maybe this offseason that we hit on

here. We've still got a month until the draft, so we'll hit on some other teams, obviously, in the weeks ahead here. Thank you to Deontay Lee. Thank you to Stephen Ruiz. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ram Gopal. I'm Shio Capadia. We will talk to you next time on the Ringer NFL show.