The Ringer NFL Show - Who Is the Best Player in the Draft? | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 257)

Episode Date: April 24, 2018

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark discuss who they think the best player in the draft is (04:00) before discussing what they think this New Orleans Saints team can be (12:45). Then they play “Would You Rather? Linebacker Edition” (19:43) before talking about their draft crushes (26:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, this is Sean Fennessey, the editor-in-chief of The Ringer, and I want to tell you about a podcast I host called The Big Picture. Each week, I welcome a different filmmaker to talk about their latest movie and how it was made. I've talked to the directors of some of my favorite movies, including Jordan Peel, Greta Gerwig, Ryan Johnson, Barry Jenkins, and dozens more. You can find new episodes on the Channel 33 feed every Friday by going to The Ringer.com backslash podcasts, or by subscribing to Channel 33 wherever you get your podcasts.

I hope you'll check it out. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark, joined in studio in Los Angeles, California by Robert Mays. I'm Robert. I was Coachella. It was far, man. I had a great time. It was very enjoyable.

Good crew, good bands. Who was the best band? I mean, I saw Beyonce, so that was just an otherworldly transport of experience. I would say that was number one. I've seen Beyonce a couple of times for only NFL events. First time. Only in NFL events. First time.

It was an entirely different. concert experience. You saw it the Super Bowl. That doesn't really count, though. That's not a Beyonce show. It's a Beyonce. Yeah, I guess so. But I wouldn't count that as like a Beyonce concert.

Were you there in the room when she sang the National Anthem a couple years ago at that just small media event at the Super Bowl? I don't think so. Like the Thursday before the Super Bowl? No, I don't think so. I was there. It was very. Where was that?

It was life changing. It was in New Orleans. And the, she got criticized because she was not at the New Orleans. She was accused of lip syncing at the inauguration. Yes, I remember that. So she came in and there were probably, you know, a couple like 100, 150,

whatever it was, people in the convention center and she just came in and said, everybody stand up and then she sang naturally the national anthem. It was a moment wasted on me and my ilk.

Yeah, you didn't care. I didn't care. Along with every other writer there, probably did not care. Very, very patriotic. Okay, we're going to get into some really interesting things because it is draft week, Robert.

I know. We're going to get into who the best player in the draft is. We're going to get into who this year's Saints are going to be. Now, we'll explain that when we get there at another round of draft crushes. But let's start out with kind of an intriguing question because this is a very fascinating draft in this sense. There could be five or six first-round quarterbacks. Not only that, like five guys in the top like seven picks. Right. And when that happens, weird things shake out after. There's a reason Luke Kikli wasn't a top

five pick. There's a reason... What year was that? 2012? Yeah, before that. It was 20. Yeah, it was 2012. It was a top... That's a weird draft. He was ninth because it went luck, Griffin, Tannahill, three quarterbacks. Although I got to tell you, the whole middle of that top 10 was a disaster zone. Richardson, Matt Khalil, Blackman, Claybourne, Bairns, okay, but not the seventh thing. That's why I said it was a weird draft. Tana Hill and then Keeley. Anyway, You remember that draft for the quarterbacks, and then the year before was a monster draft. Sure. But the point of it is that when there's a lot of quarterbacks, weird things tend to happen.

Look at 2011. The Gabbert. You have Cam Newton, Gabbert, Jake Locker, all sorts of weird stuff. I mean, JJ Watt was not the 11th best player in that draft. Essentially in that draft, if you didn't pick a quarterback, you got an absolute superstar. Like, that was the rule. That is true. Yes.

Yeah. Ponder was after Watt, fairly, than Quinn Pouncy, Ryan Carrigan. Cameron Jordan 24th. Yeah, if you didn't pick a quarterback, you got a superstar. Cam Hayward 31st, absolute superstar,

Andy Dalton, 35th. Of course. So I guess we want to talk about where that brings us in 2018, because again, six potential first round picks, five of them could go in the top half. So we're going to find out,

you know, Joey Bose is a good example, the guy who was at three because the quarterback shook out the way they did at one and two. And then Elliot, I have. after that. Elliot, Jalen Ramsey. So I guess the question is, Robert, leaving aside the quarterback question,

who's the best player in the draft? It's Berkeley to me. I just think he's so talented. And I understand the running back value question. But I also think in a way, we've kind of come back too far. The pendulum has swung, and it might be like two inches

further than it should in terms of where we should think about running backs. Because I would not draft Leonard Furnett in the top five, but I would draft Siklon Barkley in the top five because it's about past catching value to me. If you can be a weapon in that area of the game, and you can dominate in that area of the game, that I think that it pumps you up. So you would take Barclay if you had the first overall pick and you had a quarterback. That's a really good question. I maybe. If you were the Niners, for instance, You know, I'm leaving aside McKinnon or whatever,

but I'm just saying if you were a team like that where you were set at quarterback and you happen to back into the first overall pick, would you take Barkley? If I needed a running back, yes. Okay. I would do it. Okay.

Okay. Because I think what's interesting about this draft is there are two players who might be the most talented players in the draft, one of them being Barkley, other being Quentin Nelson, who are at positions that are not particularly valuable. What do we mean when we say the best player in the draft,

I guess? that relates to those guys. Is it the biggest gap between them and every else? The most talented. Who is going to have the best career relative to their position? Because that's what it is. That's how you judge the best player. Yeah, Nelson, Barclay.

But what I'm saying is that there are guys. So if you were to say who are the most talented players in the draft? Yeah, you'd probably go there. I think if I had the first overall pick and I was set at quarterback, I wouldn't take those guys. That's just a first overall pick draft value thing. Yes, that's a value position. Right.

And so for me, if you're saying who are the best guys in the draft, I would say them, but I, again, would not use a top five pick on either of them. I would go probably Derwin James. If I had, if I was the Giants and I had talked, if I had talked. That's a positional value thing too, though. But that's what I'm talking.

Yeah. As far as safety goes, as far as defense about that goes, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying you look at the Jaguars last year. You look at any of these teams, having a game changer in the defensive secondary, even though Derwin James can't be Jalen Ramsey because you cannot put him at cornerback and have him to be a shutdown cornerback, having a game changer. I bet someone's going to try.

I bet someone try. Maybe they can't. He's such a great athlete. That's what I'm saying. I bet someone tries. I'm just saying he's such a great athlete. You can do whatever you want with him. And that's the most important thing.

I think that just obviously defensive back play is as important as anything in the NFL aside from quarterback. I, if I was set at quarterback, I would definitely, obviously I would try to trade out. But if you made me pick a guy, I would pick Darwin James. I love this. This is, I'm not even sure what to do with this. Lance Ealing compares him to Eric Berry, which obviously, if you can get Eric Barry in the top five of the draft, you're going to take Eric Barry in the top of the draft.

Number one strength on NFL.com for Derwin James. Absolute alpha in the locker room. I love that. Lance likes that stuff, just like how he plays through his teammates. It's funny. Yeah. I like that, though.

Like, the fact that that is the most notable thing about him is pretty cool. This is great stuff. Okay, so here's the scouting report.

Absolute Alflin locker number one. Comes up to handle film sessions on weekends, number two. When he talks, players listen is number three. So we've gotten through three, and the fourth one even

is he hits all the weight, speed, speed, and height marks. That's what I'm saying. You haven't even mentioned the fact that he's a physical marvel. We're at four,

excuse me, five, on the list of strengths, and we finally get to extremely versatile weapon. Oh, so it's all of these things. Oh, by the way, he's really good at football. I'm not, I don't want to read too much into these scattering words.

I just think it's very funny the way it's presented. I've read that many times, and I agree that it's an interesting way to present a player, but in that locker room for that program, that stuff really does speak volumes because they have so many high-level recruits and just prospects, period. If you can be the man in that locker room, that says something. You know, I went to University of Miami,

and I'm obviously not going to compare these two people, but you know, you think about all the talent on the 2001-200-era Miami Hurricanes, the teams that went to the Sugar Bowl, the Rose Bowl, those sort of teams. Who was the absolute alpha dog?

It was Ed Reed. Yeah, I know. And when you can... That speech will forever resonate with me. When you become, that's what I give you that speech before we start this pot every single time. I put my heart in the dog.

And, you know, if you can become the alpha when it's a lot of alphas, that's pretty important. Again, I don't want to put too much weight on that because the most important thing about Darwin James that he can do a hell of a lot of things in the defensive backfield.

Is Bradley Chubb in this conversation? Yeah, I mean, I think Bradley Chubb, I've had the discussion with you and a couple of other people in the last couple weeks. Bradley Chub is hurt by the fact that Miles Garrett was such a physical freak last year and I just compare him to Miles Garrett and I said, well, he can't be the best player in the draft

because Miles Garrett was once the best player in the draft. even though it's unfair I mean if the if the Browns end up going Darnold 1 Bradley Chubb 2 with the fourth pick That's that's a pretty good

Hall there If they go down I mean I don't know what they want to do With the fourth pick They have a lot of options They could take a second quarterback But I think that's a pretty good building block If you want to put Garrett on one side

And Chubb on the other Look out Yeah and they have a couple guys for depth too Agba is like a solid player That passed even gets really interesting, really fast that they do that. Yeah.

Good thing Greg Williams is there to shake it all out. Good Lord. The worst possible defensive coordinator. Like the worst. I could think of some more. He's my least favorite.

He's your least favorite. Yeah. Like in the league. Do you find it odd that he had an insane bounty scandal and he is back in the league even though he's never good? No.

Because that's how the NFL works. No, I just mean like a lot of times if a guy's not good, they're just like, we're just going to let that guy right off. You'd think so, but it just seems like... Why would you stick your neck out?

The inertia of NFL careers is very strong. That is what I would say. It's just, it's a weird career from Greg Williams. Has he ever been like a top half of the league defensive court? Wait, do you remember he got a huge payout because he wasn't named Redskins coach? Are you familiar with this? He was like...

What a weird era. He was like secretly coach and waiting for Joe Gibbs. Oh my God. Like, round two Joe Gibbs? Yeah. He interviewed four. four times with Daniel Snyder for that job. Why the fourth one? What can you possibly say?

What was going on in the fourth one? He was explaining the bounty scheme to Daniel Snyder. I don't know. He was also 17 and 31 with the bills. I just want to be clear on one thing. We have limited studio time. And so we're kind of under the gun. But you and I really feel passionate about Greg Williams. And so we're going to spend some time on this. Yes. Yes. Okay. It says a lot about the league. It says more than just Quentin Nelson talk. 100%. Okay, so let's move on.

I'm ready. So, New Orleans Saints, this time last year, stuck in neutral. We're talking about whether or not Sean Payton is going to ghost somewhere else. Drew Brees, what's his future? Ushering in a new era, I would say. And then they have a draft for the ages. In how long was it the best one? Like 10 years?

I don't know. I mean, the Seahawks had some pretty damn good drafts. That's true. The 2010 Seahawks draft is absurd. The most surprising thing was that apparently Jeff Ireland was responsible. for the Saints draft. Yes. And then they got a contract extension.

Even though it was like a once in a lifetime thing, the fact that Jeff Ireland was the guy behind it made it once in 10 lifetimes. So they get Lattimore in the first round. Alvin Kamara. I mean, we can stay in the first round. They also got Ryan Ramcheck in the first round. I was waiting for you.

You wanted to say that was your. That was your off the corner for sure. Yeah, I'm going to go with the actual speedy athletes and you can go with the O-Landman. He was very important because when they lost armstereef, Well, Armstrongstead was hurt as well at the beginning of the year. At the beginning.

Yeah. So he was able to play left tackle when Armstead was hurt. And then when Streif went down week five, week six, he played the whole year. It was huge for them. I mean, it changed everything about the franchise. It got them to the brink of, I would say, if they'd beaten the Vikings. They absolutely could have gone to the Super Bowl. They absolutely could have gone to the Super Bowl.

They're a contender this year without a doubt. Yes. And so that got us thinking. Who is this year's Saints? Who is the team? And I don't want to say that the team that's going to hit on a draft pick and then they're off to the races. It's just who is a good draft class away?

And I think that the obvious candidates, anyone with a good quarterback and a decent coach and a couple of holes on one side of the ball. Who are your candidates? My number one is pretty obvious. And it's the Chargers. Yep. I knew you were going to say that. Well, I mean, I know.

That's like my brand more or less. but I just think that... The Chargers are your brand? Backing the Chargers when I have no reason to is definitely my brand. So I would say the Chargers for this reason. You know who doesn't back the Chargers? The city of Los Angeles.

The City of Los Angeles. I don't even think the people on the Chargers like the Chargers as much as I do. Do you think the Chargers know that they play in Los Angeles? No. They have absolutely no idea. So the offense in my mind is more or less set up. Uh-huh.

So the line has always been the thing that's held them back. Injuries, whatever. are getting forced lampback, pouncy, fiendy, Barksdale, Okung is left tackle. That's a group. Like, that's a real NFL offensive line. The rest of the skill position guys, good to go. Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, healthy now, probably. Melvin Gordon is there. I like Eckler. I mean, they have a really decent group of both past catchers and running back stable. All set a tight end. Good to go. Defense is the spot where there are a couple holes, but it's not as if they're the 25th ring defense. have to build something up.

They're a top 10 defense, and they have like three guys that they need. So safety linebacker and tier defensive line. I kind of like NFL.com set up where they have just four different mock drafts from really smart people and you just kind of look at the woods. It's an important page. There are two people. One is Daniel Jeremiah. One is Charlie Casserly.

Who have, in a stunning fall, be Chargers drafting Derwin James at 17. Yeah, that would be incredible. I would move I live in Los Angeles I would move That's almost not even fair Like they might become my actual favorite team or something like that

I would move to Carson California That's exactly the type of guy they need I don't think it's gonna happen I'd be my guess How does he fall that far I don't think he does That makes no sense to me

If it does That's literally So that's what happened with Latimore Right But Bucky Brooks and Charles Davis have him going seven Which is more like it Yeah that's a pretty big gap

But literally that's what happened with Latimore Like people thought he could go three to the Bears And he's there at 11 and the Saints can get a guy that they never thought would be there at 11 Right so that I think is far and away number one There are a couple of intriguing Options here number one because of the injury we're not gonna play with the Packers here right

Because they were not they had the 14th pick they were nine and seven last year We're not we're not counting them as a team that could could go from non playoffs Because they have too many holes no for like that to be the case Whoa. The Packers are not a good roster. I understand that, but I mean, when you have Aaron Rogers, he is the, he is a problem solver. But it's like, it's not as if Green Bay has three or four spots where they need an upgrade here and they'll be a complete team. Okay. That's not true for them in my mind.

Okay. How do we feel about the Detroit lines? What are the spots? So I think the defense was quite bad last year. Yeah, it's been that way for a little bit. Yeah. I think that there's, you know, intriguing guys. Charles Davis has Taven Brian going.

I mean, if you have a great, if you add a great defense of limerner. I'm surprised you have not talked about him more. He's my draft. Have you looked at the document? He's my draft crush. That makes sense. I haven't gotten down that far yet. It's there, buddy.

Yeah. The fact I took this long is the biggest upset of draft season. I was saving the best for last. I think, I just think, again, when you look at the profile of what the Saints were, you have the quarterback. The biggest question mark there is this Matt Patricia, a good coach. And that's nothing against Matt,

We literally don't know. We just have no evidence either way. What's your gut feeling about that? So there's a couple of different ways you can be a good coach. One is to be an absolute visionary and say this is what I want my, you know, I want to do nothing but tall cornerbacks five years ago or I want nothing but athletic defensive linemen. I don't care about size, that kind of thing.

You know, have a vision. That's the easiest way. Be able to out scheme them. Yeah. So like that's the megavee kind of model things. Yeah. Be able to out scheme them, have a vision. I think the other way is just to be a really good motivator or just be really organized.

Like organization is like, there are so many, not so many. I don't want to overstate it. There are a lot of teams who just don't install their whole playbook and training camp because the coach just doesn't understand timing or organization. So there's a number of routes to be a good coach. I don't know which one he's going to take because I literally don't, I've never seen him as a head coach. So it's way too early to judge. Being able to like get 100 people moving in the same direction is the most underrated part

of being an NFL coach. Like it's a corporate job in a way that people don't really understand. It's insanely corporate. And people, we've now overrated. He's a CEO thing. Agreed. But they are CEOs. Yeah.

That's what they are. They're in charge of many different people. And not only that, the biggest thing, one of the biggest things in coaching no one understands. Bill Parcells, you say that. I said, never get a bunch of losers because they get in little groups and they complain about being losers, right? And the biggest thing is like, there can be three people in your,

in the locker room who you're not even paying attention to who can just be so negative they're going to start a rebellion. Yeah. And those are the things you don't even think about that you're going to have to be on top of. Patricia didn't have to worry about. Belichick would just cut them and just say I'm tired of this guy. Yeah, that's how he deals with all problems. And now Matt Patricia, you know, we have not seen him face one problem in that regard.

So you cannot make a judgment until you see what they do. And here's the thing. If you're the schematic coach, if you're the guy who has a vision in terms of ex- Belichick, by the way, is all of these things. Yeah, exactly. Yes. He wears every hat. But if you're that guy, it's important to understand delegation for the organizational aspects.

And that's exactly what McVeigh did. He's like, I'm going to be the genius. You guys do the bullshit I don't want to do. All right. Coming up, we'll break down the linebackers and play another round of would you rather, plus another edition of draft coverage. But before that, let's take a quick break. This is JJ Reddick here to talk to you about the JJ Reddick podcast, part of the Ringer Podcast Network.

Currently, I play in the NBA for the Philadelphia 76ers, but you may know me from my previous teams, the LA Clippers, Milwaukee Bucks, and the Orlando Magic, or from my college days at Duke University. Being a professional basketball player, I have a great opportunity to talk to a lot of interesting people, and the podcast is a place where I can share those conversations with you, the listener. On my show, I sit down with athletes, celebrities, and a variety of other special guests. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the JJ Reddick podcast on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcast. podcast. Okay, we've been doing, would you rather the last couple weeks, we did tight ends, we did quarterbacks. By the way, I've changed my opinion on the quarterbacks over the weekend. I also have like a couple tweaks to my points. I don't want to get into them right now. I'm higher on Baker Mayfield, still high on Darnold, less high on Rosen's play.

I'll say one thing. So I said if I was an NFL GM, I would pick Rosen. Yeah. Like to keep my job. Yeah. I'm changing that to Donald. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Weird. The safe choice, in my opinion. The highest floor. We did completely different things last week, and we both came to that conclusion independently. Yeah, maybe we just, the revelation came somehow.

Okay. So we're going to do linebackers. Yes. In my opinion, compared to previous drafts, the most stacked the position has been in at least five years. So do you want to do all of them in the first round? Or do you just want to do the big two. So, Roquan Smith. Yes.

Outside lineback ride of Georgia. Then you have Tremaine Edmonds inside that background from Virginia Tech. Yes. Two fairly different players, but both of them extremely versatile. Yes. Edmonds 20 pounds heavier, obviously. He's so big. He's huge.

It is a weird class in terms of the size of guys just because, for the most part, at the position, it's gotten so much smaller. And the fact that Edmonds and Layton Van derrash are 255-pound dudes is a weird outwire. So Layton Van der Leyen Vandreche will be the third. and is there anyone else that I'm missing here? Inside like move linebackers, I would say those are the three that... So, yeah, Rashon Evans is getting some buzz. He's an outside linebacker. Yeah, he's a different sort of player.

Oh, no, no, I understand that. I'm just saying he's a linebacker who's in the mix. I think if we're comparing the same position, it's move linebackers that are primarily not pass rushers. And in my mind, that's Edmonds, Rokon Smith, and Van derrash. Right. So there's some buzz that Smith could go to the... Colts now at six?

So I wrote about this two weeks ago. I think that right now, the best way to like just squeeze a tiny bit of value. It depends on where the guy goes. Like, if he goes 11, it's not some sort of like diamond in the rough draft steel.

But he should probably go higher than that. I just think guys that are a little bit undersized are a great way to mine an inefficiency right now in the draft. And he's that exact guy. So the fact that he may go six is not surprising to me as I think about that position. I mean, that's why last week I picked a linebacker Fred Warner who's like 223 pounds or whatever.

And the guy from South Carolina is the same way. I can't remember his name. It's just the fact that these dudes can play in space and cover, I think is the number one skill that people are overrating, not all the way, but a little bit. Okay. Underrating, excuse me, overlooking. Okay. So you're on the board, you're on the clock. You need a linebacker. Who you take? Smith. Why? I just think he's so in tune with the game. Like his instincts are so easy.

The decision making from him is very seamless. He's always in the right spot. And the way he can stick with running backs matters to me. Like, it's very easy to fall in love with the traits for Edmund and Vandrash. I like both of them for Edmonds and Vandrash. I think that a team isn't wrong to really like. those guys. But I also think that in a way, Edmonds is going to get overrated because of his pass rush ability. And I think Van derush is a little bit the same way. When these guys see

6-4-255, they think, eh, I can use him. He can come off the edge every once in a while. I don't care about that. I care about a guy who is going to be able to play in the middle of the field and just negate mismatches. And that's exactly what Smith does. I think they're 1A and 1B, quite frankly. I would... To be clear, Edmonds is also a really good country. Also, and I just, just to be clear on being clear, it all depends on your system and, you know, so much. Sure. And so much of this, and this is something we're not privy to, right? So if you're a GM, you ask your offensive or defensive coordinator to come up with a plan for every single player that you're going to draft.

If you're going to have a tight end, if you're going to say we're going to take a tight end first overall and he's athletic. What are we going to do with him? What are we going to do with him? Yeah. And if your offensive coordinator comes back and he doesn't have a. ideas. We can't fire your offensive coordinator in April as much as I would fire everybody all the time. Just post draft?

Seems like, yeah, he's saying, got it. This was terrible. And as much as I think, yes, you should fire coaches if they can't come up with the plan. There are some times, I mean, there are some times that the coaching staff has no idea how to use a player. My team traded Greg Olson for nothing. Because they were like, eh, he doesn't work. I mean, trust me. I know that life very well. And so what I'm saying is, is that for

especially athletic line, linebackers, if your defense coordinator can't do anything with them, you might want to go somewhere else. So I think that's always a consideration when you're talking about this stuff. We're all, it's all human. There are limitations within buildings. And that's something you need to think about when talking about linebackers is how the team is going to use them. In a vacuum, I like Edmonds. I like the size.

I like, I like his frame. He's long. He's huge. He's athletic. He's 256, 20 pounds heavier. He's fast. That is such a big linebacker. these days. Like seriously, they just don't make them like that anymore. I love them. He's also

pretty adept. I, again, this is 100% when it comes to Smith. It's a feel thing. I just love the feel he has for the game. I love both of them. I like Van deresh. I mean, I just wrote like a big story about him. I spent a couple days with him two weeks ago. I love him. I mean, the guy is an absolute athletic revelation. Like, he's six foot four and a half, 255 pounds. He was the heaviest linebacker at the combine and he jumped 39 and a half inches. Vince Carter's vertical is 43 inches. Like that's insane. It just, they do not build human beings like that.

And I also think that his feel is decent. So a team cannot go wrong at that position if you need a guy in the top half of the first round, in my mind. Yeah, totally agree. And by the way, there's pretty athletic linebackers. They're going to be sprinkled throughout. you know, there's guys in the back half of the draft. Orrin Berks from Vanderbilt is incredible broad.

It's a very good class. It kind of reminds me of last year's tight end class where it's just a lot of super, like, uber athletic dudes. Here's one thing I don't understand. Orin Burke's page, his projection is sixth round. His comp is to hear Whitehead. If you get to hear Whitehead, wouldn't you go early in the sixth round? Yes.

I mean, what is to, like, to hear Whitehead in your mind, just competent NFL starter. That's how you view him. Yes. You would draft that ahead of the sixth round. The back of the second round. Let's do draft crushes. Sounds good.

Start us off. Hernandez, the guy from UTEP, the guard. I just think that he is a plug and play day one starter. So for a team that just needs a guy to really tie together their offensive line, that's who he is to me. It's hard to find those guys right now. We talk about this all the time. There aren't that many.

NFL ready offensive linemen coming into the league, he 100% is one of those guys. Yep, totally agree. And he's a good example of someone who you don't have to spend a top five pick on like Nelson. Yeah. He'll go in like the Zach Martin range, would be my guess.

And like, that's fine. Like getting a high level starting guard at the 17th pick, you can live with that. That's fine. Yep. Okay, I want to talk about Denzel Ward, even though he's, remember, I thought this was, I thought this was,

sleepers, and then you and Danny just started taking top five picks. This is the first time we have mentioned Denzel Ward's name on the podcast, so it's okay to talk about it. I want to talk about Denzel awards mock draftable page. It's a wonderful website, by the way. Number one is

John Ross, who's a wide receiver. That's pretty great. Number two is Marshawn Latimore. Not bad. Two for two. Number three is Corey Coleman. I did not know he was that fast. What was his 40th time? his 40 time was 4.3.37. And by the way, Corey Coleman,

his sixth most mock draftable comparison is Devin Hester. Which DJ Moore is on here. Previous draft crush of myself. Other guys who are Comptonza Award include Shaquille Griffin and PJ Williams, both of whom are... That's a decent group of guys.

Like you'll take that if those are your comps. Yeah. So I think Lattimore being the number one cornerback comp is pretty important. Not bad. And he's a guy who played for a big program. He's being mocked in a lot of kind of CB1 areas. People are talking about him maybe as the Colts pick. Colts have been rumored of just everybody.

This is what happens when you don't need a quarterback and you're in the top 10. You just get mocked to everybody. Not only do they not need a quarterback, they need every other position on the field. But a quarterback. Yes. I wouldn't take Quinn Where are the Colts set? I would not take Quentin Nelson

if I were the Colts I think you just need other I think you just need other areas I see it because they need that sort of just like influx of physicality on their offensive line they'd never had it

I don't know what they'll do they literally they need every position on the field I don't even know the answer to this is what happened to Ryan Kelly his heart yeah he's never really gotten in a groove I mean, he's been hurt so much.

It's hard to be hurt early and then settle in. I think he struggled because of that. We talked so much about how that was going to change Andrew Luck's fortunes. Andrew Luck's just gotten worse since then. Healthwise. That position overall, I think, is that important. People saying that and kind of giving it that type of value and just overall impact isn't wrong. Because I think having a high, not even a high level, a real player at that spot is a necessity

for Eddie, like, above average offense. Like, think about last year with the Rams and John Sullivan. Like, even John Sullivan really ties that all together. And that's what Ryan Kelly was supposed to do, and it just hasn't happened. Poor Andrew Locke. I know. But I think addressing the defense would be the best way to go.

They have a free safety and a couple rotational pass rushers. Henry Anderson's good player. Hankins is good. Their interior is fine and healthy. But outside of that, they can literally pick anything. I like Denzo Award. I'd go Denzo Award there. Okay.

Who's your second draft crush? I really like Marcus Davenport. Yeah. I just think that in a class that doesn't have a lot of high-level pass-rushing talent, if you can get a guy like that at the back half of the first round, you're going to take it. I like him. Texas San Antonio. He's explosive.

He uses his hands well. Overall, I just think he's a guy that's going to get you seven to eight-s-sacet-old. Jackson season. And in this class at that position, I'll take that every single time. Wait, Margus Davenport then was recruited by one Larry Coker at Texas San Antonio. You could have given me like 10,000 guesses at who the Texas San Antonio. Well, Larry Coker, he retired four years ago, but he recruited him. So he's just recruiting now? Like, that's what Larry Coker does? No, no, no, no. He's graduate.

Coker's the hired, the big gun they bring in. Is Larry Coker like a very important person to you? No. Really? No, he's incompetent. He was not good. Who is like the Miami figurehead that you really have infinity for? I mean, there's Jimmy Johnson. Well, that wasn't like your time. No, it wasn't in my time, but he continued to be a force.

Sure, but like in your time, who's the guy? Butch Davis, Ken Dorsey. Okay, that makes more sense. Butch Davis is a weird day. Well, Butch Davis built those teams. Okay, that's right. And they were all like two-star. Ed Reed was a two-star.

He's only other offers from Tulane. Really? Yeah. So I'll actually ended up hurting the fan base because now when they would just go out and get some crappy player, they'd like, well,

Ed Reed was a two-star. Yeah, that's not how recruiting works. Well, that's Ed Reed. Yeah. He's different. He's an alpha all the way.

That would be the first line on Ed Reed's NFL draft page. It probably was. Who's your second guy? We just talked to him about him five minutes ago, Tavin Brian from Florida. Now, there's a couple of things

that are important here about Brian. Number one is that, those sort of freak athletes at defensive tackle, it's not like edge rusher. It's not like safety. It's not as one-to-one. In what sense? I mean, his closest,

it's not Denzo Ward being comp to Martha Lattimore. Even though he's a freak of nature, his comps are Kendall Reyes, Derek Robinson, Marcus Coon, Kedrick Goldston, J.R. Swezy, who is obviously flipped to offensive line.

Sure, but none of this is a good sign. Roderick, right? Yeah, I'm just telling you, this isn't particularly athletic defensive tackles. It's not the same one-to-one conversion. Or the same just projection, obviously. Right, that's right. If he's that athletic and those are the dudes that are in his ballpark, that's weird. It's not great, but he's 291 pounds. He can move. He's mocked to the Falcons a lot. That sounds right. At 26. And this isn't just, this isn't an analytics pick. Because as I just, as I just discussed, I just, even though the analytics don't necessarily support athletic,

ultra-athletic defensive tackles being a one-to-one conversion like that, he's a really good athlete. He's flexible. He can make plays. His dad's a Navy SEAL if he wants some, some intangible. He's from a weird spot, right? Wyoming. And he was up there.

He's from Wyoming. He's 65, 290, 32-inch arms. Is that long? So there are a couple things like at the combine and testing that I have no context for like I don't know what a good three cone drill time is I don't know who has long arms

I don't know what a good draw jump is So I got I have no idea what you're supposed to do After our accident I had to start boxing To work out because I couldn't run anymore And I was told I've been told of the last couple months I have very long arms I didn't know Should see what your wingspan is

I had no idea until they were like You have long arms The boxing trainers told me that I think I have very average sized limbs. I'm long. I have a long frame. I'm one of these prospects who's just,

I'm rangy. I'm rangy. I literally was writing about Leighton Van derush this weekend. And you thought about how I was ranging? No, I was trying to think of other words for long because I used it so many times and rangy is where I landed.

So I'm very glad that that was your mind in exactly where it went. Okay. Well, as much as I'd like to talk about our combine measurements. And we need more rangy dudes here in the next years. We are done. We are just days away from the NFL.

Draft. Are you excited? Yeah. I really love the draft. Like, even before I did this, it was one of my favorite days of the year. I think it's a really good television event. Like, I like watching it, and I will be excited to do so again. We'll be watching from a bar with Maui Rubin for video. Yes. We filming it. Have we picked a bar yet? We haven't. I think we have, but I don't want to say it. I don't know if we have. Sure. I mean, yes, I'm excited. I'm excited to hang out with Mallory, which I don't get to do very often. I don't live here.

Thanks for listening to The Ringer NFL show on The Ringer Podcast Network. Thanks, guys.