The Ringer NFL Show - Who Will Make the Leap In 2022?

Episode Date: June 1, 2022

Kevin, Nora, Steven, and Ben go down their list of people and teams that will make a leap for the upcoming season. Host: Kevin Clark, Nora Princiotti, Steven Ruiz, and Ben Solak Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. We're not just reacting to the NBA playoffs on my podcast. We're also doing it on the Ringer NBA show and the Mismatch podcast. They are coming after some of these NBA playoff games. Check it out, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday nights on the Ringer podcast Network. It is the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I am Kevin Clark joined on a beautiful Wednesday morning by Benjamin Solock. He's dancing.

Ben, how are you? It is beautiful Wednesday morning. It's great to be on the show. Stephen Rui, Stephen Hul. It's a little too hot. I don't think it's a beautiful one, it's a little too hot. Sounds like you didn't move to Michigan.

Good to see that Stephen and I, we haven't been on a pod together in a while and the vibe still is exactly the same. Oh, it's great. Love football. I don't like football, actually. Football's the worst. Nora Seer, Nora, nor hello.

Hello, Kevin. Hello, Stephen and Ben. Thoughts on the temperature? Temperature's actually pretty nice. It was brutally hot in New York yesterday, but cooled down today. It was pretty good. It was brutally hot yesterday.

It was unbelievable. It was spicy, McSpicy Pants. If you missed it on Friday, Ben and Stephen and I had a nice discussion with Justin Herbert. We'll have another one of those next week with another NFL star. I think we're just going to put this, what do we call this? What do we call this? The ball pit where we just talk ball. Yeah. I like it.

Ball boys. Did you come up with that on the fly? No, it came about last week. No, we also decided. No, we've been workshopping it. We also decided that we're going to have a Moripovic-style situation where Ruiz at the end of talking to NFL Star determines whether or not you do or do not know ball. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I'm the right one to do it.

You're the only person who wants to do it. Ben and I are going to treat our guests with respect. And then you're going to make a determination about whether or not they know ball. Am I doing this in front of them or after the fact? You're doing it right in front of them. It's live. All right. Yeah, it's live.

I like it. I like to get in person. I'm sorry, Mr. Belichick. Bring Aaron Donald on so I could knock him down a peg. Aaron Donald went on the I Amathlet podcast yesterday and said he was at peace with his career.

Yeah, he was in peace with his career continuing or not continuing. He also put it on a knowing ball exhibition, I will say. Yeah. He knows ball. That's why he's at peace. Let's put our own on.

All right, it's getting to be about that time. It's June 1st. We are in our final month without like legitimate football because training camp starts around the 25th of July. So this is the last month where there'll just be mini-camps.

We'll be almost nothing. We are almost to the promised land. It's June 1st, which means it's Cap Relief Day. Julio Jones, I saw some Titans writers. We were tweeting out that the Titans get $9.5 million back with the post-June 1 designation. The Raiders, the Raiders lead the way, according Jason Fitzgerald,

in cap money that can be opened up post-June 1st. We're in a new era. And we're going to do one of my favorite shows every year. It's the Leap Show. And I think we've done it, I don't know,

every year for six or seven years, certainly going back. Mays and I did it a long time ago, probably 2017. I said seven years, even though the ringer hasn't been around for seven years,

been around for six. I believe June 1 is when the ringer launched on 2016. So happy anniversary to the ringer. What a day to pod. It's exciting. But yeah, the leap show is one of favorite things to do.

It's where Evan Silva was on here a couple years ago, hyped up Josh Allen and was 100% on it. I think he also hyped up Jimmy Garapua. We'll put that aside for a second. And it's just one favorite exercise because we get to kind of take stock of who we think is going to have a big season. It's always fun to go back and see who got hyped up. So, yeah, it's going to be a fun one.

And just so everybody knows the parameters of this, it can be a player, it can be a coach. It can be an assistant. It can be a GM. It could be a franchise. We've had, I have a franchise here. Could be anybody. Nora, start us off your first leap.

All right. Well, so my first leap concerns the New York football giants. Oh, no. And as much as I desired to say that they would make the leap from having to offer apology sodas to not having to offer apology sodas, which I do think is correct. I do think that that is true. Yes, I think that that is a leap that the New York football giants will make in 2022. I think the leap the Giants are going to make is to be a playoff team for the first time since 2016. And there's a lot of reasons for that, but I'm going to focus on a couple.

Okay. It boils down to what I think that Brian Dable and Mike Kafka can do for Daniel Jones, even if it's just in the short term, given that they declined his option. And the two things that I think are super important here kind of work together. the first is that the offensive line, which was 28th in past block win rate last year, and last in 2020, is both better and deeper. It should be better, given that Andrew Thomas seemed to actually be developing, and that they got one of the premium tackles in the draft in Evan Neal,

and that they got significantly deeper. Mark Lewinsky, John Fusiano, Max Garcia, they stocked up a tight end. This was an abysmal offensive line, not just last season, but in the recent future and in the recent past through which we have gotten to watch Daniel Jones play football. There is almost no chance to my eye that it is not significantly better. That matters for very obvious reasons in that it should make it easier for Daniel Jones to play football. But specifically, it should allow Dable and Kafka, who I think coming from working with Josh Allen and coming from Kansas City are not going to allow an offense on the field

that has no semblance of a deep passing game in the way that the Giants offense had come to be. I just do not think that they are going to allow that unit to look like it did last season, particularly as defenses adjusted to how they were playing, which was just exclusively in the short and intermediate areas, because the offensive line couldn't protect on, you know, five or seven step drawbacks were just too much. I think that, because we've been talking about them for the last couple of off seasons of having the weapons, having the receivers,

having an actually kind of interesting core of past catchers and offensive tools, I think that is enough in the NFC East to take enough of a step forward where we see Daniel Jones, who was actually playing okay early in the season last year when he had a slightly higher average depth of target before defenses just moved down on them and found them so easy to figure out. I think that's enough to make the Giants offense in particular a little spicy so that they can sneak into the playoffs. Kevin, I'm sure you think I'm crazy. No, I'm actually looking at the NFC, I want to go through the NFC. Odd card candidates here in a second.

Ben, when you look at the Giants this year, Brian Dayball, Mike Kafka, who's never been an OC before, what does this look like? Because there'll be an immediate quarterback bump. But I don't know with Daniel Jones how much of a bump that can be. I'm not ruling it out. I think it can be a really substantial bump. And the reason I believe that to be the case is because I think they're going to run Daniel Jones a lot.

I'm actually really interested in what that ends up looking like. Because every year under Brian Dable in Buffalo with Josh Allen, prize commodity, top 10 pick, unbelievable quarterback, alien, like, you know, athletic ability, whatever. They didn't run Josh Allen during the regular season. Yeah, they'd do it occasionally, but they wouldn't do it a ton, right? And then they would get to like a key divisional game against the Patriots. They'd get like a regular season game against the Chiefs, and they would run them. And they would run them a lot. They'd run them in the red zone.

They'd score a couple touchdowns. They win the game. Then they'd go back to not running him. And then they get to the playoffs, and they'd run Josh Allen a ton. And it was very clear of the message. We love this part of our offense. We can do this really well.

We got a big, tall, fast, explosive quarterback. But we're only going to do this in the playoffs because we want to protect him. Now in New York, a lot of the same step is true. Daniel Jones is big. He's tall. He can run a little bit. Daniel Jones famously over 20 miles per hour

on the would have been touchdown run that he then tripped on against the Philadelphia Eagles. But what is not. true. It's a little bit different is they don't have the same long-term investment in him that they do in they did in Allen. And I wouldn't be surprised if that then

subsequently leads to a lot more in-season rushing. I think you're going to see Daniel Jones carry the ball fairly consistently to revamp this running game, which doesn't have a super reliable background with Sakel and Barclay's injuries. I think that's going to make

them, they're going to play 11-11 football. We saw this with Jalen Hertz in the same division. It makes passing a lot easier, right? Daniel Jones can be a functional passer, but it makes it so much easier when you have that ability to play 11-11 football. I think this offense is going to be quite good. I have faith in the Giants' offense take a leap. Defense! I'm out. If I have the choice between keeping James Bradbury or cutting James Bradbury, generally I choose to keep him. And Martindale has shown that when he has a really good roster, his defense is great. When he has a bad roster, he can call the exact same

things and not really care about the results, which is worrisome. So there's stuff to like about this defense. I love the tibodeau pick. But in general, I'm worried about defense. So I feel like they could be that like team around 500 like Norris talking about. Make the playoffs if they get some positive coin flips and some close games. Miss it if they get some bad flubs. So I think they're going to

be spunky. I think they're going to be fun. I love it, Ben. I was afraid to go to the part of that argument, which is they will be willing to feed Daniel Jones to the wolves. I love it. I love that you went there. The reality is that's the filter through which that decision is made. How much do we want to run our

quarterback is not a how good is he at running the ball question? It's a how worried are we about him getting hurt question? And the answer for the Giants is we would not like Daniel Jones to be hurt. We don't want anybody to be hurt. But it's interesting thought experiment because I think that there's over when the spread was

becoming a thing in the NFL and it should have been a thing probably a decade earlier than it was. But I remember asking coaches, I think it was Marvin Lewis who said this, let's say 2014. And he was saying the thing that's going to hamper the growth of the true college offense

is that these guys, these quarterbacks being paid $25 million a year and owners don't want to see guys take the hits that are required in some of these, whether that's empty, which obviously we had a huge empty debate last year about whether or not that's good without the quarterback and let's not get down that rabbit hole right now. But the

RPO's read option stuff, you're going to have to get hit. And there are some quarterbacks who like contact to the detriment of their long-term prospects. But I think it's an interesting idea that because the Giants don't have a sacred cow at quarterback, that they're going to be able to experiment a little bit. I think it's a great point.

Stephen has branded himself a Daniel Jones guy. So we're going to bring him in and just, I don't know, are the Giants to make the playoffs this year, Stephen? Nora out, Daniel Jones did you? What did Nora say? I said the Giants would make the leap to being a playoff team because Daniel Jones, with the help of Brian Daible, Mike Kaufkin, a better offensive line might actually throw like two deep passes.

No, I'm with it. I'm team Nora. I'm always down for some Daniel Jones propaganda. God, you're a sick, man. I know, I know. I shouldn't have wrote that article a couple months ago. Ben is the one who is like, yeah, this will work because they can just like, you know, get him hit.

Let's go. Run him into the grounds. I walked in and I thought this was like Ben's thing. He was hyping up the Giants. And I was like, you're the one that called me out for hyping up. Daniel Jones, but no, I do think that matters. Like, Daniel Jones is an athlete, and I do think the Giants were a little hesitant to take full advantage of him as an athlete when they still had hope in him as the future of their franchise,

but now the pressure's off. Run him into the ground. What's to lose? I don't know. Is there anything to lose? They're probably going to replace the next. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Wait, I'm sorry. I have something to say about this. The Giants, I think, had a really nice draft. Tibido, Neil, those are building blocks for the future. Daniel Jones is in his last year as a start. I want the Giants to start building a culture. I want them to win games that they shouldn't. I think they can do all of that stuff.

I also want the Giants to get a top five pick if I'm a Giants fan right now. So I think we need to, I think winning seven games with Daniel Jones sounds admirable until you're picking 16th in a four-quarterback draft. Right. Be good or be bad. Don't be in the middle. However, I have bad news.

You're probably going to be in the middle. So what are you suggesting, Kevin? Especially because, okay, say Daniel Jones gets hurt. The backup is no longer Mike Lennon. It's Tyrod Taylor. That's a little bit of a different situation. Ah, yes. Tyrod, great path to seven wins, baby.

I know. I feel that. No, Davis Webb, by the way, is her third-string quarterback. I checked to see if there was like a young, developmental guy on the roster and it just isn't. It's Daniel Jones. That's a young developmental guy on the roster. We're working on it, baby. So, no, I just think that I'm not saying they should tank or anything like that. I'm just

saying that it's not necessarily good news if they make Daniel Jones, who I don't think is a long-term solution, marginally better. When they had that bump, that might actually get them stuck in the middle, I guess you could say. Not all leaps are good news. Famous proverb.

You don't know what direction you're going to leap. you're leaping, but you're leaping blind in this situation. Leave a faith, baby. Okay. I just wanted to just, I felt like we were going a little too pro-Daniel Jones, pro-two giants.

I just wanted to just get it out there, but it might not be the best thing long term. No more apology sodas. No more sneaks on third and nine. Any step is going to look like a leap with New York. Any step. Like, their bandbases in a bad, bad, bad place. and I'm hopeful that, as you said,

there will be no apology, so does. And anything will look at the leap this year. Brian Dable was the right coach. They've got a good front office. That's that. All right. My first player, it's Trevor Lawrence. So, cheater.

Mine too. That's mine too. So I'm with that. All right, let's shot this up. Okay. I think that a lot of times, everyone says, all right, so if you look at the date,

data, quarterbacks always get better from year one to year two. But not significantly. So not every quarter, there's no law that says a quarterback has to become. And that was the Sam Darnold fallacy was, oh, we start making these leaps. Well, sometimes leaps just never come. And the only two quarterbacks who have exploded in year three, according to data, are Troy Aikman and Josh Allen. Josh Allen, complete unicorn in that regard. That was just, he's a different prospect.

Troy Aitman was put into an impossible situation. So, Troy Akeman's name actually came up in Albert Pirae's column this week. A head coach said the things that were particularly bad in Jacksonville last year, the way Lawrence handled them reminded him of Troy Aikman and the one in the 15th. And I think that we talk all the time about franchises failing young quarterbacks. I've never seen anything like what Jacksonville did to try to fail Trevor Lawrence last year. They hired Urban Meyer who had no interest in being anywhere other than a Dublin sports bar, Dublin, Ohio sports bar.

His schemes were bad. His culture was bad. He was supposed to be a culture guru. That was bad. Travis Etienne gets hurt almost immediately. He got hit. By the way, I would say this. PFF had this number that was interesting.

His pocket presence was really good. His pressure to sack rate. He only got sacked 14% of the times to his pressured, which is, I believe, one of the best numbers ever for a rookie. So he's got, he had some ability to kind of navigate that. He had too many turnover worthy plays, but I think a lot of that was forced throws

because of the situation he was in. He was in an awful situation. And I don't think you can, you can look at these advanced metrics, look at the tape, and say anything other than this. This was a guy trying to survive, trying to get by,

and trying to win games. We saw what he did against the Colts in Week 18. He looked fine. I think with a competent coach, with Doug Peterson, who at least knows what NFL offense looks like, what NFL locker room looks like, I think he can only get better.

I think we're looking at more of an Aikman situation. I'm not going to say Shrakeman, but I think you're looking more at year three for him to be a top 10 type quarterback. But what I think we're going to see is real drastic improvement, the Jaguars winning games, and understanding that Trevor Lawrence is a superstar in this league,

a future superstar in this league. I don't think that any second-year quarterback will be as good as Trevor Lawrence this year. And I actually don't think it'll be particularly close. Ben? Yes. Like, the thing with Lawrence Leap is Lawrence was objectively good last year. Like, their numbers are lying.

I don't, wait, I don't think that's true. The numbers are lying to you. I agree with Ben. The number, like, I hate to pull that you have to watch the tape card. But with him, it's the truth. He was a top 15 quarterback from process of the line. I'll put it to this way. I'll pretty sure, Kav.

I was going to do Lawrence as my player to take a leap, and I eventually just decided to do Jaguars as the team to take the leap. Because it's going to be so... I don't... I think that Lawrence will be significantly better than the Jaguars franchise is sure. See, so I'll make my Jaguars case kind of folded into my Lawrence response. And then Ruiz has to do Lawrence too. Yes.

This is the Jagu's pod. It's the Jigs'Role is a leap pod. Now it's the Jigs'Nor was a year early. Nora last year was like, the Jags. And now the rest of us are out here like, you have the Jags? Ben, don't bring it on. I think, apropos, absolutely nothing else.

As you brought up with how poorly the Jaguars built around Lawrence, I think it would be extremely difficult for a team to get the quality of play they got just out of Lawrence last year and still only win three games. I think that's hard. I think it's impressive that the Jags

were able to pull that off. Right? Now, if Lawrence is just what he was last, year, they're probably, they're still going to be below 500. They're going to be a five, six, a minute team. I'm not saying it's going to be incredible. But assuming Lawrence does improve because I think Lawrence can get a little bit better at acknowledging when he needs to give his receivers an extra beat, get a little bit better at giving some

trust to guys, especially as he gets better receivers, not wanting everything to be a perfect look on every single snap. Those are things on which he certainly can improve. I think as he gets better, that leap is going to look enormous because statistically and win loss wise, they're going to be so much better. but really, to me, the leap for Lawrence as an individual won't be as big as it appears. Because I think he was really playing good ball last year, struggling with bad bounces and struggling with a horrible supporting cast around him.

On that supporting cast, it is not good to pay Christian Kirk $20 million a year. This is bad business. I'm not, it's not good business. The Foy Sadde-A-Luicon contract is $15 million a year. And then they drafted two linebackers in the first three rounds. That's weird. at Brandon Sherp, 16.5 for like 12 games a year. I don't know.

Fully Fadikasi is a good player. 10 million. Feels like a lot. A lot of these contracts are a little bit more money than I think other GMs were lining up to hand out to their players. And get on Cam Robinson with the whole franchise extension debunker. But once we take money out of the conversation, we start saying, is Trent bulky making good moves or not?

The roster is better. Roster is better, period. you. They're NFL players. They're NFL players in the roster. Christian Kirk and Zay Jones are professionals, man. They were ties to work. They know what they're doing. Marvin Jones was nowhere. Leviska-Shonaut was nowhere. This was a mess of a receiver core last year. Right. Foyal-Aluicon, Foley Folli Fulti Fottikasi, Roy Robertson Harris from last year. These are guys who can play for you. They can get on the field. They're going to want to show up. They're going to want to work. They're going to want to win games. There's the entire roster is better. Is it good? No. But it is not the massive anchor, the liability. the drag it was on Lawrence last year.

So I think Lawrence will take a leap. I think the Jaguars will take a leap because it's very hard to have as good of a quarterback as you do and lose that many games. And I think there's a chance to Jaguars become that team that's around 500. That's tough to beat up.

Doug Peterson is a very good coach at getting guys on the same page, believing in themselves, and fighting for wins even when things look bleak. And that's been proven of his time in Philadelphia. I like the Jaguars a lot as like a sneaky fun team in week 13 that's still got that like, outside look at the wild card, play spoiler against the Colts,

make the division a little fun. I think they're going to take a leap overall as a team. They played spoiler against the Colts when they were the worst team in the NFL last year. Absolutely, baby. We don't need them to take a leap in order for them to play spoiler against the Colts. Steven, Trevor Lawrence. Stay right where you are. Just to add on to your point about the interceptions,

16 of his 17 interceptions came when the Jaguars were trailing. Yep. This is a guy that got more aggressive when the situation called for it. I will say they were trailing quite a bit. Yeah, by that. He only did 151. passes for Trevor Lawrence came when the Jaguels for trailing. He only threw 151 passes when they were ahead.

But when they were ahead, his interception rate was on par with Aaron Rogers. So that's a good sign. And nine of his 26 turnover worthy plays came in the first three weeks. He was on pace for 57 after three games. He ended up having 26. So it was just 17 over the last 14 games. I really think it was like a Peyton Manning style rookie year where he was just figuring out what he could get away with. Yeah, very much so at calibration year.

I agree. And then as the season, wore on, you could see him start to pick up on that. And we started to see fewer turnover worthy plays. We started to see the big time throws didn't go away. He was still making those throws down field. So I

I mean, it's hard to make a case for him just using stats alone, but I swear just watch him play. Just watch the failed plays, the incompletions, the sacks, and ask yourself, what could he have done on this play to make it work? And the answer, 90% of the time, was nothing at all. He did the best he could,

and this was the result. I think he was a top five quarterback, our top 15 quarterback last year, based on process. And I think we're going to see it, see it more this year because he does have those pros around him now. I think the hardest evaluation to do in football is when a guy is just trying to put a team on his back because he has to. And I go back to this, Daniel Jeremiah did a thing a couple years ago about why he missed on Mahomes. And he said it was because he didn't realize that almost the desperation that Mahomes had when he was a tech. And he was forcing throws. desperation is a really, really, really bad ingredient when you're trying to evaluate.

And I don't think you can look around if you're Trevor Lawrence last year and see Urban Meyer on social media. The damn press conferences are really staring straight down and just doesn't make eye contact with anybody. The supporting cast you had, I don't think you can look around and not feel a sense of desperation. And that's why I think you almost have to go back to the Clemson tape and just say, you know what? He's going to be this guy again with the improved supporting cast with a first round pick. He's getting back in Trevor Sette again. Like there's some interesting stuff going on. I think Doug Peterson will make Trevor Lawrence much happier.

Like he just seems like a good, good upbeat kind of guy. And that'll be fun. And all Doug ever did in Philly was like, how can I help the quarterback? It is a complete one-eighth. How can I help the quarterback? How can I be nice to people? How can I make them believe in themselves? That's like a pretty good thing for Trevor Lawrence to have.

And how can I distribute ice cream at team meetings? the way there's no question about that he knows exactly how we'll watch this video and then we're going to go out in the hall honestly

the Jacksonville Jaguars are in dire need of some ice cream at team meetings yes I agree it is the exact correct higher we took them you know

three weeks to get there but it was the exact correct higher Nora your second leap all right let's do it so the Packers defense has not ranked higher than the Packers offense by a DVO

since the year 2015. I think this is the year that they do it. I think they make the leap from second fiddle to the premier unit on the Green Bay Packers team. You can sort of see

why, given what's happened to the roster on both sides of the ball. They obviously prioritized defense in the draft. I think Quay Walker and Devante Wyatt fit what they want to do super, super well with Walker getting in the mix, with DeVondre Campbell and Wyatt helping them against the run in particular.

I got to imagine Kenny Clark is very, very thrilled that they'll get to sort of team up and do that. If this defense, getting another year with Joe Barry, who I think has been really, really good there, can take a big step forward, which if there's questions there, it's just sort of, okay, do the guys like Roosevelt Douglas and Campbell have career years again? but I think there's a little bit of a thing that's hard to bet on there just because there could be some regression. But I think getting guys like J.R. Alexander locked up and if he's healthy for the season, you can make up for some of that. If they take even a step a little bit forward from where they were last year, which I think particularly given what they did in the draft is possible. And the offense has to make up for the offseason losses.

I think you end up in a situation where if this Packers team is really, really good, it's because of the defense. And it's time. It's time for them to be leading the charge there. And I'm excited about it. Okay. So I want to talk about the Packers in general. It was a great point. I agree with you, Nora. They were almost on my list for one reason, which is I think the Packers are going to win the Super Bowl. Like, I'm pretty sure they're going to win the Super Bowl. Here's the leap I'm envisioning. That's going to be going from not winning the Super Bowl. Bowl.

They're not on my list. They're not on my list, but I think they're going to win the Super Bowl. And it's interesting because in reading some of the OTA stuff, it seems like Romeo dobs or dobs or dobs? Dubs. Dubs. Yeah. A win, baby.

A win. Seems pro ready. Christian Watson is an incredible athlete and will be developing the season goes along. It sounds like dubs maybe further along in OTAs. Having said that, I mean, I don't depend on any rookies ever. And I think that even if you took out Watson and Dubs, you still have Alan Azard. You still have Aaron Rogers and Matt LaFleur skimming up offense. I think that's going to be fine.

I do think on the defensive side, you can count on rookies and you can count on SEC rookies and Georgia rookies who are playing in big games who are already the size needs, the speed you need. I totally agree with this Packers defense. I love what they did where they didn't force the wide receiver pick in the first round. they got the two Georgia guys. This team is really freaking good. And in an NFC that seems to have a clearer path, Ben and Steven, this is a damn good team. Yeah, I also had the Packers D on my list.

And I think one big thing is getting Jayaer back. Because that changes how they can deploy their coverages. They can push their zone coverages to one side and just have Jaya lockdown, an isolated receiver on the backside. I think it's a big deal for them for their past coverage. And they were really good at avoiding big plays in the past game last year already. The problem was their run defense.

And they bolstered their front seven with the draft picks. Quay Walker and Devante Wyatt, I think, will help from day one because the type of defense are going to play is the type of defense those guys played at Georgia. And I think this, I think we're going to see like the next phase of Aaron Rogers' career. And I think this is the first year we're going to see Matt LaFleur's vision for what this team is going to be going forward. I think we're going to see it this year.

I don't think we're going to see them put so much on Rogers plate because he doesn't have Devante Adams anymore. And Devante was so central to all the Aaron Rogers type stuff they did out of the gun that I don't even think it's possible. So I think we're going to see Aaron Rogers under the center a lot more. We're going to see more run game, more play action. I really think that was the pitch to them. Like you don't have to be a superstar anymore. We're going to help you out. We're going to play good defense.

We're going to run the ball. You're going to be able to take shots downfield. I agree. I think this team is better on paper than it was a year ago. And I've been saying this all offseason. They needed to change something in the Devante Adams trade helped them do it. And I think we're going to see a new version of this team, a more complete version of this team. I totally agree. And Devante Adams winning was so central to their offense that now things get to change a little bit. Obviously, certainly having Devante Adams was amazing.

And I would love to have him on my team. But the value they got for him and the fact that you still have one of the best coaches in football and the top top three quarterback. I'm okay with that being the problem you have to solve, Ben? Yeah, I know Danny and I talked about this a little bit. We were doing a podcast about getting to know that Packers' defense a little better. And the

meme of the Packers haven't drafted for Aaron Rogers is a good one, but the thing that you miss and you forget is like what they've been doing instead over that time. What they've been doing instead is first round pick Kenny Clark, first round pick, Jay Alexander, first round pick, Quay Walker, Eric Stokes, first round pick Devonte

Wyatt this past year, first round pick for Sean Gary. They have just been pouring first rounders into this defense. Five of them are starters and then two more are the rookies that are coming in this year, both who are projected to potentially win starting jobs. This is an absurdly loaded defense that like Stevenson talking about. They clearly with some intention said, right, as Rogers gets older here and as we're going to have to transition the way we think about our offense, let's protect our flank here. Let's make sure that we're a well-rounded team.

Let's make sure it's not just how long Roger's arm is. That's how long will be competitive, which obviously they made the Jordan Love picks. They've been hedging their bets in a couple of different ways. But this hedge here is investing in the defense. I think defensively, they're the one of if not the most oppressive rosters in the league. I also don't want to hang my hat on the defense of the Super Bowl team. That's just in the modern NFL, it still scares me.

There will be a team with an elite defense in like the championship games. That's like pulling the carriage. right. This year it was the Niners. But it's always tough to prognostate who that's going to be and how long it's going to last. Because defense does not stay as sticky as offense. So I love the investment. But it's, we always, I always feel more confident in my projections for an offense I do for a defense. So I never want to get too wrapped up and getting excited about this Packers depth guard,

no matter how good it is. But how many of those defenses have Aaron Rogers. Right. That's exactly what I was. Yes. And to be clear, I do think that it'll be a little harder for them on offense without Devonte. Like that should be obvious, right?

He's really, really good. And young receivers are hit or miss. I like what they've done. But I don't think that you can like count on Devante Adams winning being that sort of like easy button. It'll be there even when it shouldn't be there. Option that Aaron Rogers is used to having. Like that'll be tough.

I think given the quality of the quarterback, given the quality of the coaching staff, and the fact that they have brought in guys, even if it won't be sort of a one-to-one thing. I think they can recover from that pretty smoothly, even if it does involve taking a slight step back, particularly because they probably don't have to score as many points as a lot of the other teams that we might talk about

in the same sort of, excuse me for using this word, tier offensively. I do agree with Ben that in the playoffs, that's when it's going to become a problem. third and long is going to be a problem for them. There's no air. Teams are going to play man coverage, and it's not going to be up to Aaron Rogers to beat the defense.

It's going to be up to the receivers to get open. Because if the receivers can't get open against man coverage, there's nothing to quarterback can do. And Aaron Rogers, one thing we could say about Aaron Rogers is he, he isn't real excited about throwing into tight windows. He'd rather throw the ball away, as evidenced by his small interception rate every single year. He's not a guy that puts the ball into danger. And I think we're going to see a lot of throwaways.

this year because those receivers are going to have a hard time separating. In the last year with Mike McCarthy, didn't he set the all-time record for throwaways? It was honestly, it was like a Babe Ruth situation. I guess, I was going to say, remember when Bay Ruth? I guess remember reading about Babe Ruth. We're just elder millennials. We're not that old.

Bay-Brewth had more home runs and, like, everybody else in the AL combined one year or something. Like that was Aaron Rogers with throwaways last year to Mike McCarthy. He just threw everything away. Are you suggesting that, the Packers should just game plan for third and manageable, Stephen? Yes. AJ Dylan and Aaron Jones, baby.

Two headed back. Also, I think getting David Bakhtiari back matters in terms of that, right? Yeah, but Bottyari is still, but like, he's not 100% yet, is he? Yeah, I haven't known what's going on with Bachiar in a long time. Yeah. I'm worried about the Bakhtiari. But allegedly. Yeah.

I think the Packers would be better served if it was like a Premier League style of season. where the winner over the regular season just won the championship, I think they're going to be the best team over the regular season in the playoffs. We're going to see some of these weaknesses get exposed, which typically happens to the playoffs. Well, MLS rewards a trophy

for a best regular season team before the playoffs. So does hockey, I believe, right? Most points? Yes. Yeah. What's that trophy called? I don't remember. President's trophy season.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Red Wings are going to win at the 90s. I know hockey. Yeah. You know, he does. Thank hockey guys. Stephen Ruiz.

So I want to, the reason I didn't put the Packers on my list of Leap is because I have another leap. And I was thinking about this all day yesterday. And listen, June 1st, a little early to just accidentally get out your Super Bowl pick. But you know what?

That's what we do here. We're just guns of blazing. The Los Angeles Chargers are going to make the leap from not a playoff team to the AFC champion this year. Oh, What? Wait, wait, wait, Kevin of all people picking this.

I know. I think that there's a disconnect in my mind between the fact that I think that Brandon Staley and everybody fawning over his press conferences and just the vibe around the franchise, I find to be annoying in a, not in an offensive way, but it's the things that I've detailed here

where anytime Brandon Staley says anything, football, Twitter, it's a great word for it. Anytime Brandon, Stanley does anything and just explains what a cover two is at a press conference. People just take the little video and they say this man is the brightest man in the history of football. This man is almost Alonzo Stag and Vince Lombardi rolled into one. I don't, that to me gets a little annoying, but they, first of all,

Brandon Staley knows ball. Second of all, this is a stacked roster. It was funny because Greg Rosenthal was on one of the PFF pods last week. And he was saying that a lot of times when a team fills all their holes, you end up, overrating them because you say, okay, this team had this problem and then they solved it. Now they're going to win the Super Bowl. I'm trying to avoid that with the Chargers here. But I just look at the guys, I mean, J.C. Jackson, who is an unbelievable player on a contract

that I don't think is out of whack in any meaningful way. Brandon Staley being able to assemble what he thinks. I think it's slightly red flaggish in the. the sense that the Charter's defense took a step back with Brandon Staley. I think some of that is Brandon Staley doesn't have Aaron Donald anymore, doesn't have Jaylon Ram's anymore. That was just

going to happen. And a lot of the, oh, he stops the run without having to commit people to the run or that, yeah, because you had some Rams personnel that was incredibly special. But getting Sebastian Joseph Day, getting J.C. Jackson, Zion Johnson on the line, is phenomenal.

Brandon Staley is good enough. And Justin Herbert, ring around NFL show, contributor is what he is. And we know that he is going to be at the very least a top five quarterback. So I don't know. Like, this feels like an AFC champion to me, guys.

Imagine not having Los Angeles Chargers and AFC champion bets from March. Could never be me. I don't bet on football, but I'm betting on a podcast, which is more significant than money. Which matters more. The reps on these airwaves. Listen,

Brandon Staley's the smartest coach alive. He's like Lombardia and that other guy, Kevin said, put together. And he's going to be, he's going to bring the team to the promised land. This was, this was a playoff team last year. And the fact that they didn't make it is absurd. They absolutely should be. Stop.

Amosso-Stagg was the coaching University of Chicago, Ben. Oh, yes, Staggfield. The same after him. Any other things that you should know about that you need me to teach you about? There's a lot. I'm very short. Do you know who Jay Burwanger is? he was the first

He was also in Chicago. Did you know that Nick Folls started for the Eagles and their Super Bowl winning? Listen, there was a pre-show conversation about Pearl Dan that I was just nodding my head along with.

Regardless. Yeah, no, I think the Chargers are the smart money to come out of the AFCS. I think the Chargers are the smart money to come out of the AFC.

We overrate teams because they fill all their holes. Chargers fill all their gaps this year. So for me, there's nothing wrong with them and I'm comfortable being in that position. Did they, I'm looking at their depth chart on June 1st,

and it still says Storm Norton at right tackle. Yeah, but he's just there to ensure that Herbert gets to make like a couple of crazy plays in the game. It's mostly just like for the highlight real sake. Yeah. The NFL social media team is asking Storm Norton to be at right tackle so that Justin Herbert can do some incredible social videos. But I think fundamentally when this run defense gets to work the way it's supposed

works as the body's now, has the players that it needs. Everything is just going to look so much cleaner. Field position looks better. Turnover differential looks better. Time of possession looks better. Game flow looks better. Everything, I think, falls, those dominoes fall with that run defense getting fixed. And I think that was the big push this year.

I think they made the acquisitions necessary. I got a lot of faith in this team. Looking at which teams filled the holes that we thought that they had going into the offseason, yes, that's a trap sometimes. Sometimes it's just really simple, right? this team, why did they not make the playoffs? They couldn't stop around on third and four. Third and short should no longer be an issue for this defense.

At least in a 31st in EPA per play, allowed against the run 30 second and success rate kind of way, which is what it was. Giving up just third and short after third and short and making Justin Herbert do a ton of cool shit. And that was fun. That just they don't have to play that way anymore. and it's simple because it's true.

So I'm totally what you coming. I think here's the best sign, the most encouraging sign for Charters fan. The fact that Jerry Tilleri was on the field for a bunch of snaps last year, and this offseason, he's, according to Brandon Saley, fighting for just a role on the team.

I think that's the biggest sign of the progression as a defense. Because he was, I'm not exaggerating one of the worst run defenders I've ever seen on tape. He was getting pushed back five yards every run play. just getting him off the field

we'll improve that run defense by a lot. Stephen, we should do a podcast where you just list the guys who getting off the field would be an upgrade for. Jerry Tiller is the first person I named. Go through all 22 positions and to say this team has to get this guy off the field

if they're going to have a good season. We're going to get to that later this is. Unfortunately, the Chargers have two. They have Storm Norton and they have been... I would not be surprised if Storm Norton turned out to be an impractical Joker's bit

that has been being played on Justin Herbert. it would be the ultimate betrayal. The whole, the entire season of Impractical Jokers is just the entire Los Angeles Chargers season, 17 episodes. The season finale is the- year's going for several years now.

The season finale is the Raiders game where In Gokway and Max Crosby just destroyed Storm Norton every snap. Steven sent me a clip that I never noticed from Slow Newsday where Justin Herbert's talking about how much he loves impractical jokers and I'm laughing the whole time. And Justin Herbert is just deathly serious

about how much he loves impractical jokers. He has no sense of humor about it. He's just like, I just love that show. And I was trying to be lighthearted. A guy left the show, apparently. One of the- impractical jokers. And Herbert talked about it, like,

the Chargers were losing, like, a key member of the team. He's like, yeah, we got to thank him for the seasons he gave for us. He's going to move on. Just incredible years of service and laughs. It was amazing. Serious face. And then Kevin just laughs in his face. And he, I thought, I thought, Storm Norton?

Yeah, exactly. I thought we were going to laugh together, Stephen. And then he was not, Justin Herbert decided not to go in for that particular laugh. Ben, another leap. Yeah, I have a defensive assistant I'd like to talk about. And we were talking a little bit about the Packers defense being able to potentially pull an offense that's in a state of transition

and figuring things out. The Broncos have Russell Wilson. And I think there's a lot of excitement about that offense, Jerry Judy, Cortland Sutton. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a little bit of a learning curve there, especially with Russ being as a polarizing with play style as he is. And I think the defense in Denver is going to be more

important than we realize. And the first year defense coordinator there, Giro Evereaux, is a guy like a lot. So Evereaux most recently was the passing game coordinator on defense for the Brandon Staley Rams, right? Actually, it was the Rehim Morris Rams because it was last year. But he kind of really cut his teeth as a potential new

D.C. in 2020 when he was under Staley with Rams as the passing game coordinator. Before that, he was still in the building in Los Angeles. He He was the safeties coach for Wade Phillips for three years. Before that, he was in Green Bay under Dom Capers. Before that, he was in San Francisco under Vic Fangio. It's a lot of good names that Adjero Avro has coached under over the course of the last decade of football. What's really nice is he now takes over a Fangio defense in Denver. And this defense was working pretty well under Fangio

over the course of his tenure there. They obviously moved on from Vonnello this year, had some injuries at linebacker that brought them a little bit further down the rankings. But in general, it was a sound unit built from the back to the front and it was classic fangio approach. Everro is very much so Fangio but New Wave. Right. It's very much so learned under Fangio. Bradley Chub had a quote where he was like, this is fan geo structure. Like this is all very familiar. The building blocks are the same. Just some of the verbiage is different. And when he says some of the verbiage is different, what I hear is, ever was bringing the staley stuff because that was the whole thing with staley. It was I'm going to do fangio things, but we're going to start to take college ideas.

and we're going to start to graft them into this, this tree, right? It's a base three, four. But it's not a bait, like, it's not Wade Phillips three four. It's a base three down in the sense that it's the tight front, in the sense that it's the stuff that we really like to see from modern defenses. So what's leaking out of Denver right now is really encouraging news for Evera, who Everow and Mike McDonald, the DC and Baltimore, I think our two first year DCs are going to be great. I wanted to highlight Everow here because if the Broncos, if you tell me right now the Broncos win,

the AFC West. I'll tell you, all right, the Rust thing worked. Sick, that's great. I'm very happy for it. But I wouldn't be surprised if the driving force of this team remains what they're able to do defensively. They had Bryce Callahan leave, but they still have Pat Sartan, who I think is going to be, was incredible last year. I think it's going to be a lockdown corner in year two.

They have Bradley Chubb, hopefully healthy for this entire season. They got Juan Williamson Free Agency. Randy Gregory, currently listed on our lads as a member of the team. Good. Great. We love that. Awesome. So far so good. I didn't know where you're going with that one. Yep. Love it. You landed the plane. Lock that down. I think that fundamentally, I look at this team and I see an offense that can be really good, but I have more faith in the defense. And that's because of the belief I haven't ever, who's a first year DC, I think it's going to be really, really good. So he's my, he's my leap. He's my assistant leap to watch this year. My one concern, and this was a problem, I don't think

we paid a lot of attention to just because the Broncos weren't that good over the second half was the failure or the Fangeo defense kind of failed in the same way Staley's defense failed in Los Angeles because they were just getting pushed around on the run game. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the big concern. But if they can turn that around, they

have added to the defensive line and Chubb coming back is basically an addition. If he can get that going, I do think the back end of that defense is very good. Yeah. And that was the one name. I knew I was forgetting a name as I was going through. DJ Jones. No staff. That's true. for the Broncos, Kevin from San Francisco.

Do you want to fix yourself a run defense? Right. Find you a DJ Jones, baby. That's a fire hydrant. But my third pick is related to Benz. I went with the other team in the Russell Wilson trade, and I went with Clint Hurt, the first-year defense coordinator. And I think we're seeing kind of the same evolution in Seattle.

Pete Carroll has been criticized for not evolving. And he's evolved this year. His defensive staff, he brought in Sean Desai, who has roots in the Fangio system. He brought in Carl Scott, who coach DB's under Nick Saban, which is a big deal because Saban is a DB coach at heart. And what we've heard out of OTAs is that this is a new system. They're running like the Fangio style system.

I think her reference, I think he was Hugo Amati, former Oregon player who played under Jim Levitt at Oregon. And he said this is similar to what he did in college. And that's similar to the Fangio stuff. So I think we're going to see a new look defense in Seattle. My one concern is the lack of edge rushing. That limits the ceiling on this unit. But I wouldn't be surprised if,

this is league average. They don't give up a ton of explosive plays. And I wouldn't be surprised if the offense is better because you don't have an injured Russ. You get to see more of the McVeigh-style stuff, which I think helps the quarterback, whether it's Drew Lock or Gino-Smith, we're going to see more under-center stuff. I think the running game's going to be more efficient. It's going to be efficient like it was over the last month of the season.

I would not be surprised if Seattle's good. I'm not saying playoff good. But if they win nine games, I would not be shocked. And I think if that happens, Clint Hurd is going to get a lot of head coaching looks next off season. I would be shocked if they're. if they're good. That's my...

Seahawks are going to be a football nerd team for sure. We're all going to be like, they're doing the right stuff. They're going to be like 4 and 11. Yep. All right. So a couple things. Number one,

you kept mentioning Vic Fangio. Vic Fangio was at Niners OTAs a couple of days ago. And there have been some beatwriters made the connection that if my next guy gets a job, that Vic Fangio could just be the Niners DC next year. And so the idea... Are you going to do DiMico? Well, I'm going to do DiMiko as the number one head coaching candidate.

Yes. To replace Matt Ruhl, to replace any of these guys. What's the best job that's going to be open this time next year? Because, I mean, Matt Rul, it's like, it's over. It's over for our boy, I think. We can kind of... The Colts head coaching job. I thought about that.

That's possible, but the Colts could be pretty good this year. I mean, best job that's not like a possibility to be open. Cliff Kingsbury just signed the extension. He signed that like the day after They fired Steve Wilkes after one year. Listen,

I can't pretend to know what's going on in Arizona. I cannot pretend that. I have, I have no idea. I'm so excited. I haven't done a Demico rant in like four months. This is good. Okay, I'm going to open up the floor.

I'm going to open. Washington's going to be open, but Damico's not going to take it. Damico, by the way, turned down a second interview in Minnesota. Minnesota last year. So he's looking for the right situation. So he's definitely not going to take, he's definitely not going to take Washington. And there's been so much turnover in the last couple of years that you have to wonder if there's anything. I mean, like, I don't think, I mean, there's some, there's some coaches where it's like, do they, do they want to still do this? But I think that's, that's a kind of a different conversation. I don't think the Jets. If Sal has a bad year this year, like, if they win four games, are we, are we putting him any danger, guys? yeah what about i mean seattle is another option if they do lose if they do only win four games

yes um right there's not many like obvious obvious answers here it's not like not like last year but again we didn't think there were what eight openings last year and then there were so like life finds a way when it comes to coaching gisle all right so i'm going to get to the my tamaico ramp before ben so like gets to his so i think what he did last year was special and i think we're going to see some more

special stuff. I think that's going to be more important this year when Trey Lance is the starter, maybe the offense needs time to get up the speed, and that defense is going to be a pretty significant part of a team that wins a lot. So over the course of last season, Seth Gawina wrote this in a

very good way during the playoffs last year, they really had to adapt. And that's why I look for in head coaching. Bill Walsh once said that he always would favor an offensive coach over a offensive coach because offensive coaches set the agenda and they are more, I don't know,

assertive rather than reactive, right? But when a defensive coach shows his ability to adapt, and also put special teams coaches in this bucket as well, when they show that they're able to adapt, make adjustments, patch things together, I think they have as much value in the sort of assertive department as an offensive coach. So in the playoffs last year, they were the only team that didn't have a cornerback to play over 800 snaps. were just cycling through these guys.

Josh Norman was the most used quarterback, cornerback at one point. Emmanuel Mosley and Ambrie Thomas were on the outside, and then they just stopped playing man. Over the course of the season, that went, that went way down. They were able to go to zone.

I just, I love what he was able to do. He's a young guy. He's played the game. He's smart as hell. This is a guy who there should be a legitimate, massive bidding war for him. in seven months, Ben? I love Miko Ryan so much.

This, you gotta, listen, it's, it is incredible that you had Chris Kosra, who's the defensive line coach, incredible defensive line coach in the building. They kept him when Salah left. This guy clearly should have become the D.C. He was the driving force behind all of their, Nick Bosa, D. Ford, all of the success,

driving force behind, he should have been the D.C. He doesn't get the job. Ebro's around, right? There's a bunch of fanjo. Disciples, Brandon Staley assistants that are that are floating around. Go get one of them. They've been in San Francisco before. Go hire one to be the DC.

They don't get it. Domingo Ryan started coaching in 2017. Yeah. Assistant. Linebackers coach, defense coordinator. It took him four years. And then the point you brought up,

they have no corners. They can't play man anymore. So they're playing Rush four, drop seven. They are playing, kill us. They're playing, score 40 points on us defense. They're playing, we don't know. We're just going to drop in his own and hope defense. And they are flying around and he,

hitting dudes. And I know this is like a no ball thing, but when, when you see like veterans, like Jimmy Ward's been league for seven years and Jimmy Ward's like a big hitter. But when Ward, like Fred Warner, big money Fred Warner after signing a huge contract are kamikaze hair on fire knocking dudes off their socks. That to me is that DC knows what he's doing. He has, he has these boys hype to play. Period. They wanted to just play quarters and light people's heads up. And they did all the way through the NFC freaking championship game. They were the most fun defense to watch last year.

From a schematic perspective, they're extremely well coached playing zones, and then from a play style perspective, they very clearly all have trust in each other. They all have cohesion. They're front nose what the back's doing, back knows what the front's doing, and they're willing to play,

and they're willing to fight for yardage, fight for turnover, to fight for that extra little stuff. I think D'Amico's a knockout coach. I think Damico should have been a head coach at three different teams this year. I love them. All it was?

Yeah. They all at launch. Like the guys who play chess on three different boards? Yeah. Exactly. Hey, is there a team, any of you guys,

is there a team where you would want him to fit? Where you say this guy, this team is in need of a Dermico Ryan's type of head coach? The Vikings were perfect for him. Yeah. And the fact that he passed, I'm assuming, is maybe like a Kirk Cousin's thing.

It's definitely. It's a guy that hits against Kurt Cousins a couple times over the last couple years. That feels like a leap. I'm just going to say it. We have no choice but to stand. The one thing that I would say, if D'Amico wants to do where he goes next, what he did in San Francisco, the one non-negotiable is a Fred Horner. If you're going to live in a world of zone, especially too high zone, your Mike better be able to run. Better be able to run.

He better be smart cookie. Better be able to cover. That is a non-negotiable. Eric Kendricks was that guy. It was as one-to-one as you were going to get. And so Minnesota made a ton of sense for him. If it's like Carolina, then Shaq Thompson, maybe. but not so much.

If it's Indy, Darius Leonard, love it. I was going to say Carolina, not because of Shaq Thomas. Although he is like an athletic lineback, he's just not Fred Warner. They do have some interesting safeties. Jeremy Chin is a nice chess piece to have for a guy like Domeco.

J.C. Horn is a nice lockdown corner, something he didn't enjoy in San Francisco. I think that would be a good fit. But just getting back to Ben's point, about them playing a lot of zone. It's not just that they were dropping into cover three. They were playing different types of zones. And depending on the opponent,

the zones were always in the right spots. Like they knew how they were, they were going to be attacked and they adjusted. And that was what was so impressive about him. It reminded me a lot of Sean McDermin in Carolina, who was adjusting every year. Like that defense had a different base coverage every year he was there. And it was easy to see that he was going to be a great head coach.

And I think Demico is along the same line. Stephen, any more leaps for you, bud? One more time? Any more leaps? Oh, no. I got Clint Hurd, Packers D, Trevor Lawrence. Those are my three. Are we out of leaps?

Is that it? I only have three. All right. I showed up late and I'm out of Leaps. I was too busy on Twitter posting screenshots of Kirk Cousins throwing cover checkdowns. He's a priorities, baby. The only player I have, because my player was Rashad Bateman, which the lead case for Rashad Bateman is extremely simple. He's played six games with Lamar total last year.

When he was healthy during training camp, Lamar was out with COVID. And then when Lamar was back, he was hurt. He just did not get any reps with his starting quarterback last year and was still not half bad. Film is great. He's not only the clear wide receiver one now. They knew they were making the brown trade and still, like not new during pre-agency, but they knew this was a chance and they still didn't make big moves at receiver.

And the Ravens never would have let this position fall this way unless they had a lot of faith in Rashad Bateman. I do as well. So right now, like Devante Smith, Jalen Wattel, Rashad Bateman, all very well positioned second year receivers for a big leap. The one I'd choose to highlight is Bateman. Can I push back and just say Devin Duverne? Listen, I'm a big Devin Duvenay guy, all right?

Fourth round pick out of Texas, punt returnability, who's a good selection. There is a ceiling on Devin Duvonnei that I think does not exist as much on Rashad Baton, who Doverne is going to be a vertical guy for them. Mark Anger is going to be a vertical guy for them. Bateman's going to be a lot of that underneath that breaking stuff, and I think it's going to be really high volume. So Duvene's got a role.

Not a Duvene guy, but shot Bateman now. And they still have low. Lamar. And Lamar is so good, and I think people have forgotten how good he was before everything just went to shit last year in Baltimore, and he got sick. He was playing the best ball of his career, and I think he's taken a step as a passer, like accuracy-wise. He was very accurate last year, and all of the concerns about him throwing outside the numbers, I think, went away with last year's performance. And since we're making our season predictions right now in June, I'm going to say Lamar is my MVP pick right now over Justin Herbert.

His immune system needs to take a leap Like his gut health His digestive His digestive health needs to make a leap Eat an orange Eat some oranges or something Lamar please He's gonna come down with scurvy this year

All right We'll be back Scurvy Next week We promised you a second episode With a top 10 NFL player That's been pushed back to next week Ben can no longer make it

Ben has been trying to ask this person A question He's already asked them but they didn't give him a good answer for five months. And now he can't ask the question. And so we're going to have someone else. You have to text the question. We are not going to have somebody else ask this question.

This is too much. Then it's never going to be answered. Yeah, no, we have to do it. Ben, you can choose if you can want someone to ask it in playing the role of Benjamin Solac or if you want them to just sort of. I don't know if I want to see a Ben-Solac impersonation from any of the three. Why don't we just record Ben asking the question to play it? Yeah, what if we get Ben on tape?

Yeah, record Ben. Or no, what if we hired like a cameo of somebody? Yeah. And just had Ben, that's good. I'm totally on an associated third party. Completely, completely. Yeah, just like, I'm trying to think of the most random. Let's get the 49ers beat guy that, that beaved with Devon Kinlaw.

He's on Camio now. What about like John C. Riley? Yeah. I'm down to see a C-List celebrity on cameo and send them a question. I'm on football cameo. Shane Graham is $17 Grant Cohn, you're correct is on there

Brett Farr, 400 bucks It's rich Ray Lewis 330 Mike Leach Scott Hanson 222 I see you Scott I love Scott Hanson now Steve old ball coach

250 so any of these people would be great to ask the question Hugh Jackson 70 bucks 70 something a little short there Hugh Wow I could do this all day. I was just thinking to myself, like, this is Kevin's dream afternoon

is to go through football came out. Just like, come on, buddy. Dave Wantschat is on sale for $25. Kevin evaluating which football people he thinks have like appropriate self-worth. Oh, brother. Wow. Jesse Palmer, 300.

That's the Bachelor money coming through. All right, guys. Thank you to, Cifon, I know, Superspection, help with additional production supervision by Arjuna Ramble. we'll see you next week this been the ringer NFL show on the ringer podcast network