The Ringer NFL Show - Wild-Card Weekend and Wild Stories in Pittsburgh | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 376)

Episode Date: January 3, 2019

The coaching carousel around the league (00:00), the Antonio Brown situation (14:00), and a closer look at the upcoming wild-card matchups (22:30). Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy New Year and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelly. The NFL playoffs are officially here, and that means tons of coverage up on the site. Robert Mays is writing about Philip Rivers' legacy. Danny Kelly discusses Russell Wilson and the Seahawks offense, and Danny Hyfitz gives us his wild card weekend viewing guide. On the pop culture side, we have a live Golden Globes wins pool featuring Sean Vennessy, Amanda Dobbins, Chris Ryan, Micah Peters, and Kate Halllewell. You can check that out on YouTube. to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. How are you doing, buddy? Robert, I'm on the West Coast. I'm very busy. Sometimes things sneak up on me. I just got an alert that the Orlando Magic are doubling up the Chicago Bulls. I am not watching that game, as I've not watched many Bulls games this year. I'm in Houston. There's a lot of NFL work to be done, a lot of NFL reading to be done, because the news cycle never stops and the playoffs are around the corner.

so it's giving me yet another excuse to ignore the Chicago Bulls at all times. Is one of those pieces of reading about how Cliff Kingsbury is getting head coaching interviews? We're going to get into that. We're going to get into some Antonio Brown related news. We're going to talk about all of the stuff that's kind of come down the pipeline here in the last two or three days. We're going to do that and then we're going to get to the game. So a slightly different format than our normal show, but we'll get to everything that's important. So do you want to start with the coaching carousel or do you want to start with Antonio Brown drama?

I'll let you. This is like the new Netflix movie, the new Black Mirror one. It's a choose your own adventure. I hope it doesn't turn out like that. No, it's not good. I have not watched it yet.

I did watch Birdbox yesterday, though. Wow. Vander Snatch is, it's kind of a downer. I will watch it. Just not something. When I was sitting on the couch yesterday right before leaving for about a week,

I wanted something I did not have to actively interact with on my television. Well, literally the choices is basically every piece of art ever made except, except Bander Snatch. Yeah, exactly. So that's why it shows one of those

and not Bander Snatch. But I guess every Black Mirror episode is kind of a downer. There's no real... I'm trying to think of a... I mean, I guess San Junipero. I guess that's it. But that's neither here nor there.

So let's start with the coaching carousel because I want to get more in depth than Antonio Brown. So let's just flick at the coaching carousel really quickly. What's standing out to you right now? So I got... That's what I was going to ask you.

Are there any... It seems like, you know, at this point in the coaching carousel, so many names get bandied about, and a lot of them are just out of obligation. You know, assistants are going to get interviewed for the head coaching jobs in the place where they're about to get fired. That's pretty standard. So even the Hugh Jackson thing in Cincinnati, while I think it's ridiculous, it's the type of news you expect to come out around this time of year. So you mentioned Cliff Kingsbury, but are there any names that have been thrown out for any

particular team that have shocked you or that you think are particularly notable? I think Chris Richard is a good example of someone. I've sat down with him a handful of times because surprise, his team has made the Super Bowl a handful of times when he's with the Seahawks. And he's just someone who's engaging. He understands football, obviously. He's been around a lot of winning teams. And I think that when he gets around owners, he's a type of person who's probably going to close the deal. He has a handful of interviews out there. I think that's bad news with the Cowboys because he's been a hugely influential voice in Dallas. And I don't think, you know, I saw some, I think David Hellman was talking about this. And I think a couple of Cowboys fans were

trying to say, well, Jerry will do whatever it takes to, to, you know, keep Chris Richard Schard around. No. I mean, if you get a head coaching job, um, and specifically, specifically, not even the defensive coordinator technically? Well, he's like, he's like, he's like the Dick Cheney of the defense. He's like, actually, but he's like an extremely powerful, not president of the defense. Yes, but that's so he's two levels down for being a head coach in Dallas. Yeah, but I do think that if Chris Rashard was like, will you please fire Rod Rod Marinelli, that would happen. Yes, but that still leaves him one level down from the head coach. Right, right, right.

He should actually just be the head coach. And so, yeah, so he's going to leave if he gets a head coaching job. And I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. That's someone, I mean, I'm surprised the level of interest in Adam Gase. Just because- Oh, see, I'm not. That's my name I wanted to talk about. So Adam Gase coached what I thought was a pretty good roster,

at least for the first two years he was there. And he didn't do something that we didn't do much that sort of was shockingly good to the point that he would have from what it had. appears pretty much serious interest from everybody. I don't think it was a very good roster. And I feel like when I'm looking at retread head coaches, the question I want to answer is, is there a reason there's circumstances that stop number one or two

would have been such that you can't expect more in stop number two or three? A guy like Mike McCarthy, I think, is a perfect example. Why is Mike McCarthy going to be better in a scenario where he doesn't have Aaron Rogers than he was in Green Bay. And I think Adam Gase in the right circumstances, or even if the circumstances aren't good, you could assume that there's a world

in which he can be better the second time around. So if I have a young quarterback, I think that Adam Gase is a good enough play caller that I would feel good about pairing him with that young quarterback. So if you're Arizona, if you're the Jets, I understand bringing him in

and hearing what he has to say. The same thing goes for Cliff Kingsbury. I just think that those assets are so important that every good offensive mind that exists in the football world, I'd like to talk to that person. So that's why I think both of those guys make sense. My only thought about Gase, and I think Gase, I agree with you as the capability to be a good coach, but he did not make Ryan Tannahill an appreciably better quarterback

than Joe Philbin did. And I think we all agree that Joe Philbin is a bad coach. And so, you know, okay, he worked with Peyton Manning, Peyton Manning. From what I hear likes him, that's important. but I just don't, I don't know. I've just never been blown away to the point that I think that he should get his choice between Cleveland or Green Bay or whatever it is. Now, I think that the thing we've talked about for a number of weeks here is Lincoln Riley.

Lincoln Riley signed an extension two nights ago with the Oklahoma Sooners. That is a huge wrench in everybody's plans because he was the one. Now, Brian Kelly's name apparently is coming up in a couple of these searches. That's interesting because, you know, I think that because he's sort of old news, because he's been around a long time. We forget, you know, he has run some innovative offensive stuff in the past. You know, he's not Lincoln Riley, but, you know, he's not Matt Patricia here, trying to talk about ball control.

So I think that that's maybe an entry name. And that's, that's assuming that there's no huge Chip Kelly type who wants to jump. You know, I think we look around, Pat Fitzgerald's already, and he's not a Chip Kelly type, but he's already said he doesn't want to go to Green Bay, which was, was bandied about. David Shaw looks like he's once again removing himself from the coaching cycle. And so I just think that you're going to be dealing with sort of the second tier of college coaches now. And now you're looking at essentially if you're a team, you're looking at retreads and second tier college guys. And I think that there's a lot of teams.

There are eight teams who are looking for coaches right now. And I think that there's going to be some massive, massive disappointments. Yeah, I agree. And the pool is shallower than we expected to be because when you have guys like Lincoln Riley going by the wayside. Well, the pool is always more shallow than you think. Correct. Yeah, that's true. But it's also, you and I have talked about this a little bit, the typical kind of blueprint guys that we'd normally look to, they're not as intriguing as they typically are. Guys like, I mean, Eric B. Enemy is going to get interviews. I just don't know if

the Eric B. Enemy hire goes the same way as the Doug Peterson and Matt Nagy hires. Maybe that's unfair, but just being around these guys isn't the same as the place you're coming from. Maybe I'm just, maybe I'm short-changing it. I think that there's been slings. slightly revisionist history with the Madanagie hire. Because when I was around in July and August and camps and a little bit in June, I was talking to people about the coaching carousel. And there was a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of skepticism about the Matanegi hire. I remember.

I talked to guys that had it that played for him. Yeah. I understand that. Oh, you're talking about from people inside the teams where he's coached? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I met more about just sort of observers around. Other coaches, other coaches, other GMs who were looking at it and saying, wow, he just doesn't, you know, he basically called plays for, what, half a season.

And so there was a lot of skepticism and it was, okay, when does Andy Reed's pipeline run dry? Because he had Doug Peterson, that he had Matt Nagy. I mean, the Andy Reed and then more broadly, obviously, the Mike Holmgren, Bill Walshry, you know, that has, has bared a lot of coaching talent. but at some point, you know, the, the theory goes, and this is what a lot of GMs told me, was at some point, you know, he's just, you get stuck with the lemon, right? But I'm starting to think that maybe there's just something about that tree that produces really good coaches. I mean, obviously, you know, there's, for every, you know, incredible Matnaggie type, there have been a Marty Morning wig and people like that from that

branch, but by and large, it's been the best branch. And I think it's, you know, as someone like Eric Bienemy, I don't know about my Kafka right now for the head coach. I actually talked to him last week. I like him as a coordinator if the enemy moves on. But, you know, again, teams are going to take risks. I mean, Zach Taylor, the quarterback's coach of the Rams, who, you know, he's getting looks. And he obviously doesn't have much say as far as play call him because Sean McVeigh is there. And so I think teams are going to take risks.

I've said it for two months. We're going to see some of the best hires in recent. memory and we're going to see some of the worst hires because teams are looking for something they've never looked before. They're all looking for a Sean McVey type and maybe one or two hit and maybe six of them get the this year's Mark Trestman. Yep. I think Eric B. Enemy might get a head coach and job. In fact, you know, he's getting a lot of interviews. He comes from a pedigree that obviously has been very successful. And I think, but then Mike Kask would be the offensive coordinator next year. And then, I mean, it would be ridiculous if there are just four straight

coordinators who go go become head coaches. But that's what I mean, rate is built. So maybe Mike Kafka is the coach in two years. I have no earthly idea. Maybe next year, the entire offensive trend just collapses and everyone wants, you know, Steve Wilkes back in their lives. I have no idea what's going to happen. But what I do know is that owners are going to have to swing for the fences and it's going to be very awkward and bad time. Yeah. I think that's kind of where we're at even this week is these names just, nothing that's being thrown. I was just like, oh yeah, that's great. But that's often how it is around this time. But when is it ever? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're never going to have a guy. I mean,

I think guys like Andy Reid don't come available very often, guys that have just proven success and that you feel really good about being good anywhere they're going to go. And if they come available, man, that's awesome. You know, a couple of years ago when Sean Payton was maybe going to leave New Orleans, that was a name where it's like, oh, man, if that happens, amazing. And I think maybe there are a couple names like that. year. Like, if you're the Packers, you should want Josh McDaniels. You should just want that to happen and want that to be your future. You don't think so. I don't know. Dude, remember when he accepted a job last year and then backed out? That's fine. If he accepts it and backs out, you'll get Frank

Craig. I mean, it's, I would want Josh McDaniels to be the head coach of my team. I still think he's more exciting than some of the other guys are. I don't know, dude. I might be out on Josh McDaniels. Just out. Just no more. Yeah, I don't, I mean, maybe if like, if I was number eight and I couldn't find anybody else and he wanted the job maybe. But I just, I'm still not there. I just think that what he did was sort of a coaching felony last year. I think that, sure. I mean, yes, I can understand that. But I still, again, talking about kind of being underwhelmed by everybody else, I wouldn't mind trying to have Josh McDaniels be, I wouldn't mind taking the risk on Josh McDaniels and letting my place be where he had to rehabilitate himself a little bit.

I mean, if I was a bad job, like Arizona, yes. Who would you, who do you think would be better off in Green Bay. Who would you rather have than Josh McDaniels? I mean, I would, I would have to to think about this. I mean, I certainly, I think that there are, I don't know. I mean, that's my thing, though, is just that I don't know. I still think that I would rather bet on him despite what happened last year than bet on some of these other guys. I mean, I don't know the answer. I would have to look at the coordinators that are out there. But I don't know. I mean, I just think that, you know, Josh McDaniels had a lot of communication problems in Denver. There were a lot of issues with him.

It's not like he went out and crushed it in Denver and they went to doing it out of the kindness of his heart. He got fired after two seasons because, you know, people really didn't like him in Denver. Let's, let's be honest. And so I just think there's a lot. I would maybe go for a college guy over that. I mean, I don't know about Brian Kelly. I think that's a real risk. I think if you're Tampa, maybe you take it because you're not going to have the same type of job as a green.

Bay or Cleveland. But I just, I don't know, I'm just sort of out on Josh McDaniels after what you did last year. And I'm, I'm a bit surprised at a level of interest with him. I can see that. I can see that. I still just again, I may, maybe, I honestly would probably, probably from a head coaching perspective, having sat down with both of them at different times of their career, I would maybe take BN and me over, over McDaniels. Only because of, I just, I don't, Josh, Josh James did that to the Colts last year. I mean, what's to say he wouldn't do it again?

I thought, I thought the whole thing was that he was just going to take over New England. What happened? Yeah, that's a good point. What the hell happened? But if he's taking interviews, then I don't know.

The whole thing is ridiculous. I mean, Bill's theory on his pod today was that he thought luck wasn't fully healthy. Well, I don't know. I mean, if you're really going to wait for the absolute perfect opportunity, I know this is crazy to say, but is Aaron Rogers the perfect opportunity? right now? Maybe Baker Mayfield is a better opportunity.

If you're really holding out to the point that you're not going to take a job unless it's 100% perfect, I don't know if the Packers job right now is that. Do you think that, I mean, how many bad things do you think the Bill Belichick has said about Cleveland and Josh McDaniels here? That's the issue there. I mean, how many bad things do you said by Indianapolis? They hate the Colts. Yeah, but I'm not sure.

No, I know. But it was different franchise. It was different franchise. But it was different franchise. If anything, if Bill Belichick still harbors resentment, it's against the Ravens because that's the linear franchise. That's true. All right, let's talk about one more thing before we get to the games,

and that is Antonio Brown and just the bizarre situation happening right now in Pittsburgh. Do you think there is, based on some of the things that came out today, it seems like there's a real chance he's not on that team next year. Does that make any sense whatsoever to you? No. I mean, I just think you can make it work. You have $55 million tied up in Ben Rothensburg and Antonio Brown. That is actually not that much.

much at the salary cap rises and it's $190 million next year. I think you run it back. You have essentially one more year with Rothersburg under contract. It's making $23 million next year. The cap for Brown jumps from 8 to 22 that you have cost certainty there even though you jump up a little bit. And so when I look at that team, you're not you're not going to get equal value for Brown. You're going to- And you're paying him not to play next year. That's essentially what you'd be doing. Right. I mean, you so you would save a little bit and you'd have more cap-flexy, about in 2019 or 2020, but I just think, what are you going to do? How are you going to assemble a roster that's better than this one in two years if you

tear the whole thing down? I just don't, who are you going to have to replace Ben Rathesburg? Because it's not Josh Jobs. I haven't seen enough of a Mason Rudolph type. I mean, I just don't know what kind of plan you have other than everybody figured out we're running it back. I think that's true. When you're on this sort of timeline and you don't have much longer with Ben Rathlisberger,

I don't understand how paying Antonio Brown $20 million to not play for your team. Or if you make it post-June 1st designation, then you push some of the dead cap to 2020, which how does that make you any better? He's still not on your team. You can't trade him before the draft. I mean, there's so many elements here where even if you're trying to negotiate this to yourself in a financial way and say there are ways to get around that $20 million in big blinking lights for him not to play, none of those other avenues are desirable.

You're still not making your team better while you have a chance to win a Super Bowl. So that just doesn't make any sense to me. I think you deal with it. And if they don't deal with it, then this is over. Because there's no way you're going to not have Antonio Brown next season, be paying him where you're going to have to pay him, and be back in contention in the same way you even were this season when you didn't make the freaking playoffs. So the best time for them to win the Super Bowl was two years ago when they had Bell, Brown, and Rathusberger, are all under pretty manageable deals.

And Antonio Brown's deal was ridiculous. And they lost to, well, you know, Bell and Brown were under very good deals. And then Ralthusberger was under- Well, Bells was still a rookie contract, though. I mean, Browns was not. Which is nuts. No, right, right, right. Brown essentially got the deal Mike Wallace turned down, as we learned from Ryan Clark

yesterday in his very interesting rant, if you saw it. I have not seen it yet. I was not, I was watching Bird Box yesterday and traveling. So I did not see it. I should probably watch that base and everything that's happened in a lot of sense. The scariest thing Ryan Clark has ever seen is not Birdbox.

It's Antonio Brown in practice after he signed his extension. It did not sound particularly pretty. And then Antonio Brown said some fairly ugly things about Ryan Clark today. I did see that. I have seen the aftermath. I didn't see the cause.

It's been quite a run. Anyway, so two years ago, they had their, I think their best window. They lost the Patriots in the AFC championship game, and that was that. So unless you can go back in time and recreate that roster, the next best thing you can do is just hope they figure it out, bring everybody back and give it another run.

Hope to augment their problems in the draft, maybe make a change of defensive coordinator. It's really hard to say it's Keith Bauer's fault because Mike Tomlin is the head coach and he's a defensive head coach. So you don't know which schemes are his, which schemes are Keith's. Maybe they need some modernity down there. I don't know, but I know there needs to be some changes, but I think that the best way to do it is just make Ben and Brown figure this out and have another 2019. I agree.

I've run it at 2019. I feel the best way when you're locked into a plan as a franchise to get second life is, I know this is really easy to say, but it's to do what the Saints did last year. It's to have that one monster draft because it's the only way to supplement the talent on your roster in a cost-controlled manner. And saying to have one of the best drafts of all time is how you do this, but it's the only realistic way to do it. It's hitting on one or two guys early in the draft and saying, all right, our secondary

issues, we've shored them up a little bit. This talent gap and this depth gap that's now growing because we have more expensive contracts, you know, Ramon Foster leaving, whatever. It's finding whatever the Ryan Ramcheck version is of guard and putting him in there next year. That's their only option. But that at least is possible. If you get rid of Antonio Brown and you give up on this core, you're not even making that remote possibility. You're not even putting it in play. You're not even giving yourself a shot to kind of revamp on the fly. And I really do think that's their only route. So I agree with you. You know, I wrote today about the sort of quarterback

contract to Lema face in the NFL because the top five and a half basically average annual value quarterbacks are not going to make the playoffs this year. Didn't make the playoffs this year. Derek Carr is tied with Drew Brees at $25 million. So it's top five and then Derek Carr tied with Drew Brees. Okay. So it could be six. And, you know, the one commonality between all of the teams who pay their quarterback a ton

of money, Andrew Luck, Drew Brees, is that they all had really freaking good drafts. And it's exactly what you're talking about with the Saints. You go out and you get Alvin Kamara and Mark. Laddimore and those guys, yeah, you're going to be able to pay your quarterback a lot of money. Drew, excuse me, Ben Ralthusberger is only making $23 million, but it's not like he's on a rookie contract. They can't go out and sign a bunch of middle to your veterans. They have to have a huge draft. I totally agree with you. It is, it is the only path for them to go from good to great in 2019, which is basically their last chance to do anything special. Yeah, and that's

why I just don't understand why you give up on one of those pieces that gives you that chance to do something special. Also, not to be, it wasn't the same draft class, obviously, but the fact that Michael Thomas is making $1.4 million this year and 1.6 next year, it's pretty good.

The Saints have hit recently on a lot of guys, and let's be honest here, the Steelers kind of haven't. I mean, what is the last non-first-round picked that's just been a monster for the Steelers? Let's look at this.

Oh, Juju. Oh, Juju. That's a good way. Well, that, hold on. So that's a bad point, because James Connor and Juju have been good. Everyone else has been terrible, though. Artie Burns, Sean Davis.

Well, hold on. But I don't think, I think that the wide receivers have been so thoroughly solved. The position has been so thoroughly solved by the Steelers. It shouldn't count. They're just too good at picking receivers. That's fine. Whoever isn't,

let's say Kevin Colbert is super naturally good at it. I just feel like if there's ever a change in the front office, then someone like Bill Belichick to just pay the receiver guy, the receiver picker in Pittsburgh, just a blank check. Just Belichick just gives them five. million dollars a year to tell them which receiver to draft. Yeah, the receiver thing shouldn't really count. And I guess they've had a couple

other hits. I mean, Stefan T.J. Watt is good. First round pick, though. I said, non-first round picks. It's guys that are a little bit cheaper. Your Camaras, your Michael Thomas, those are non-first-round picks. I mean, you think about, here's the thing. It's more so that they've just had stinkers

of drafts. So you look at 20, let's say the last four years, okay? 2015, Bud Dupree is not very good. Senquez-Golson, again, the corner safety situation in that team is really bleak. But Sanquez-Gold in the second round, Sammy Coates, Doran Grant, Jesse James is fine. That a year after, Ardy Burns in the first round, Sean Davis in the second round. Again, just the black hole of secondary picks for this team.

And then they get ju-ju in the second round last year. So, I mean, for the most part, it's not been great, especially in certain position groups. So that's where you're... start struggling. When you don't have cheap assets on your team that are outperforming what they're supposed to do, especially at big money positions like cornerback and safety, that becomes a problem. Yep. All right. Let's move on. Let's just do these four games. Let's really dig into it and then we'll get out of here. So let's start just in, you know, chronological order here. Colts at Texans Saturday afternoon. I was in, I'm in Houston currently. I was at the stadium today. I heard some of the

guys talking. This is a matchup we've seen a couple times already this year and a matchup that I feel like could go either way. What are you looking for here and what do you think is most important? So I saw stat the other day that I found really interesting that, you know, Eric Ebron has developed into a player and that's quite a surprise to Detroit Lions fans. But the Texans give up more fantasy points, which is basically stats to tight ends in any other team in the league. And so I look at that matchup. I look at, you know, I saw some really good

tape analysis of Andrew Luck's play action this week. I do think that the Colts are going to be able to make some plays on the Texans. I think it comes down to, I know this sounds like very shallow analysis. It comes down to when at the past rush, I shouldn't get home on Andrew Luck. I think that it's a fairly even matchup. You know, talent wise, when you go 153, I don't think there's many advantages. Obviously, the Houston offensive line is still a mess. But I think that it's going to be a very close, very entertaining game. And I think it's probably going to be the game of the week. I mean, there are a lot of candidates for that, man. All of these figure to be really tight and really just entertaining for the most part. Well, let's go through it. So the Eagles and Nick Foles are

going to blow out the bears. How dare you? I'm not even going to take the fire out with a response. I'm sorry. Listen, I love you, Robert. I hope. your team does well, but it's running into Nick Foles in the playoffs. The Bears might not be good, but one thing I can guarantee you is that the Bears will not be blown out. The Bears haven't been blown out this season. Listen, I understand this. When they give under, when they give up under 24 points, they're 12 and 0. I understand all of this. They have some of the best players in league on defense. Sorry, dude, Nick Foles. All right. So beyond Nick Foles, torching the Bears, what else? I mean, Chargers Ravens is interesting to me. And then, see, I mean,

They're all extremely interesting. We'll get to that. But on the Colts and the Texans end, what are you watching specifically as far as matchups? So I'd be curious to see, you mentioned Eric Ebron. It was funny. Tyrone Matthew was talking today,

and he just said, you got to pay attention to where 13 and 85 are, which is hilarious. Like, the fact that Eric Ebron is now in the same conversation as T.Y. Hilton when you're designating priorities on the Colts is nuts. So, Ebron...

Real quick, before we get into this, who is the last person like Ebron, who's been a first round pick, who looked really bad and then was able to rebound. Because I can't really remember many examples in recent history. Of guys that were just actively bad. Yeah, just top half of the first round didn't look great and looked like their career was headed towards being over

and then stopped the free fall. Just the ultimate post-type sleeper? Yeah. That's a very good question. No one comes to mind. There's guys like obviously like Jared Gough who are able to turn around with their own teams and with some pretty year. No, that's what that's exactly what I'm saying. I mean, that's a separate category.

There haven't been that many guys who've just completely turned something around like Eric Ebron. Good for him. Yeah, because we don't really exist in that world of the NFL anymore, right? Just because guys are playing much earlier than they have in the past, especially with the new CBA, just because teams are trying to take advantage of cheaper contracts. but yeah, man, I don't, I guess Eli Apple has been okay for the Giants this year. I'm just kind of scrolling through first round picks right now.

Eli Apple's been okay for the Giants. I mean, I know he wasn't a total disaster, and he hasn't been fantastic for the Saints this year, but he's somebody that's kind of gotten a second life a little bit. I mean, Eron had 750 yards and 13 touchdowns this year, which I just don't think anybody expected. Barquevius Mingo has been okay for, for Seattle.

He hasn't been great, but he's been okay. Yeah, the best season, the best season E. Run ever had was five touchdowns before this 13 touchdown campaign.

Oh, it was very bad, man. Yeah, a lot of these guys that were given second chances or shipped off somewhere else, it's not gone great. Kelvin Benjamin,

Jonathan Cooper, D. Miller. Remember the famous AJ Jenkins, Jonathan Baldwin trade? What a trade. That was amazing. Just like, well, these are bad picks.

You want to swap them? Sure. Yeah. Matt Khalil has not been good in stop number two. Al-Gogletree. Matt Khalil's a different because they gave him money. Yeah, that's true.

Like real money. Not like flyer money, real money. You know who's actually a good candidate for this? And it's funny because he also came from Detroit. But Kyle Van Nuoy has been pretty darn good for the Patriots. Yeah. that's the one that I think would come closest to this because there are not many other candidates.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. And that's, it's a very similar situation. So you found a team who put him in a position to succeed. So the other thing I wanted to mention with Eric E. Brown, it's interesting because when Tyrone Matthew came to the Texans, he really was focused on playing just that deep safety role. I mean, that was his spot. And he was like, I will settle into this.

I don't need to be the Swiss Army knife that I was in Arizona. and then over the second half of the season, he's had to be that Swiss Army knife because Andre Hal coming back and them losing some cornerback depth with Kevin Johnson has forced him to play more in the box covering tight ends, everything else.

So I think that him being involved in the slot a little bit more often against Ebron is one way to combat that. I know Ebron had that long touchdown last time they played, but again, I think that the Texans are equipped to deal with what this team has,

with what the Colts have offensively. And the only exception to that is really that the Colts pass protection has been so good. And with Ryan Kelly playing and being in charge of that again this week, I think that they can slow the Texans down. So I don't know.

Is it Ryan Kelly not banged up? He's banged up, but he's playing. In my opinion, it's almost as important from a mental perspective as it is from a physical perspective of him being able to kind of come in and handle all of those past protection calls.

When he's not in the game, Andrew Luck has to do a decent amount of that. He does have a neck injury. that's my in my top 10 don't have that injury that would be an interesting list I'm not sure you just don't want to see I'm looking at the Colts injury report right now I'm seeing toe ankle knee knee hip ankle

shoulder neck Eric Ebron is on here for rest which is the injury you do want to have sleeping in baby and the other side of this is that I feel like when the Colts have needed to over the last month so they've been able to run the ball effectively.

They really ran over the Texan, or excuse me, the Titans and the Cowboys. And there have been a couple stinkers there. One of them was against Houston. So it just feels like they would have a hard time doing that. I think Houston's defense is well suited to slow down a Colts team that has been pretty dangerous over the second half of the season. That's what I'll say. And then you move to the other side of the ball.

And if that's the case, can the indie defense do enough against the Sean Watson and that crew, and I don't know if they can. So they're going to be seeing a lot of zone, and they're going to be seeing a lot of off coverage. And the question is, can Deshawn Watson and DeAndre Hopkins take advantage of those holes? And they have in the past. When you give DeAndre Hopkins room to work, it's not going to go well. So I don't know. It's very tight to me, but I still think at home Houston's the better team. Yeah, I honestly think it's going to come down to a late turnover or a bad call or one call or whatever it is. I'm going to pick Indianapolis, but I'm

not exactly confident. It's going to be number four or four for me as far as confidence. All right. Let's get to Seahawks Cowboys. Another kind of just, again, fascinating matchup that has a lot of stuff that I think, again, one bounce to the ball, one element of the game could go either way. First thing I'm thinking about with this, if you're Seattle, you want to do two things. You want to run the ball and you want to throw the ball down the field. I think both of those are going to be difficult. So I just think overall, this game is going to be pretty low scoring and points are going be pretty hard to come by. It's really my only feel I have for this. Okay, so here's the matchup that I'm really interested in. I saw a stat this week.

Did you see that Bobby Wagner is over the last, I think since his career started, is he misses a tackle less than 1% of the time, which is by far, by far the best mark in a league out of anybody on the defense. And Ezekiel Elliott gets more yards of different contact than anybody in the NFL. And I just, I'm just intrigued because there's a couple of these this weekend where obviously we're going to see the future of the NFL that whole, that whole stick next week when the Chiefs and the Saints, those sort of teams and the Rams and those sort of teams get involved. But we're going to kind of see some old school football this weekend. And I'm really excited to see it. Guys like Bobby Wagner, guys like Layton Van derrash, guys like Azikahelia, the three running backs, obviously on Seattle.

and I'm starting to just get a little bit amped because we haven't had a lot of that in 2018 and I'm kind of, as Kevin O'Connor would say, I'm pumped and jacked. I am as well. And I think that this, again, this is a simplistic way of looking at it, but I feel like these passing games

neither are really set up to take advantage of the other because the Dallas pass defense has been pretty solid and I think their corners are good enough to give, Seattle some issues on the outside. I think on the other side of the ball, Seattle's past defense hasn't been great all season, but you don't necessarily have a passing game that could take advantage of that. And with those circumstances, I'm tempted to give the edge to the better quarterback. And I just think that... And the better coach. Sure, that we go both of those ways. And I think I'm just,

I feel good about Russell Wilson here. And the other side of it is how healthy is Dallas's offensive line. Because if Seattle can take advantage up front, you know, Flank Clark is going against Tyron Smith that just isn't 100% healthy or close to it, I think that's another element to this. So as I look at it, I do think that Seattle's going to have trouble moving the ball. But if the slog is pretty tough, I still am just betting on Russell Wilson in kind of high leverage moments. And he's come through in those pretty much all season. It's not as if this Seattle team is creating lots of separation and they're really out scheming people this season and their ability to move the ball through the air is pretty much

Russell Wilson doing crazy things and fitting the ball into tight windows. And I don't understand why that's going to change. Yep, totally agree. And you know, I had Mina Kimes on Slow News Day today, which is making its triumph and return for the first time in 11 months tomorrow.

That's great. Great to hear. We were talking about Brian Schenheimer and we were joking, I don't know how much this will get in, but we were joking about how everyone just keeps thinking that Brian Chattonheimer in this run-based offense is the reason that the Ramp, the C-Ox is successful. And really, it's just because Russell Wilson just makes unbelievable plays he shouldn't. Yes.

And Tyler Lockett's been pretty good. Yeah. Tyler Lockett's been really good. Perfect passerating when targeting Tyler Lockett, which I'm surprised Michael Thomas didn't have that. Probably not enough yards per attempt, I'm assuming. And the- I don't know, dude. Because passerating is so dependent on touchdown percentage. and Tyler Lockett doesn't have that many targets.

So there's so many passes to Michael Thomas that are complete, but only go for like seven yards. It's going to be tough when that's happening. Passer rating is fake. Yes, exactly. Passer rating is dumb. But it's still impressed a good guidepost to how somebody's doing. And Tyler Locket is good.

So that's probably what's going to happen on Sunday, Saturday, Saturday night, which is that, you know, the run game will keep the Seahawks in it and then Russell Wilson to make a couple plays at the evening. end and the win. I mean, I just, this comes down to, we talk about us all the time, the little, little edges. And I actually think that there's two big edges, which is the Seahawks have a better quarterback and they have a better coach. And when two teams have similar roster talent, I'm going to go with those every time. Even though the game's at Jerry World, you know, I'm not, I'm not buying into the allure of Jerry World so much that I'm

going to pick against the team I think is going to win. That's, I'm with you on that. I just think, and it's going to be a bigger burden on Russell Wilson, it's been at times this year because I do think that running the ball is going to be tough against Dallas. But I think he can carry that burden. I think he has at times this season. I just think he's playing so well that it's hard to pick against him in a game that's otherwise pretty close. Yep. All right. Agreement. Let's get to Sunday. Chargers at Ravens, a game we just saw a couple weeks ago. And I don't know, man. I have, I like this Chargers team in terms of talent. I pick them to make the Super Bowl. I have a ton of faith in the players that they

have assembled, I think the Ravens win. Okay. Here's my take. We talked about this on Sunday night when the Ravens are running the ball at a pace unseen since the mid-1970s. The chargers are built to stop a lot of good modern offense. That's so true. The Chiefs, they're playing the Rams.

I think they stick with them a little bit. You know, obviously they play these teams. We've seen how it's gone. Big dime packages, safety flexibility. Up the field pass rush, Derwin James can do anything back there. Adrian Phillips in as a dime linebacker to cover tight ends. The corners who can stick with guys and create turnovers.

Three deep a corner, yep. So how do you beat the modern defense? You give them something that is thoroughly unmodern. You give them Lamar Jackson running the ball more than anybody since the 1970s. I'm in. And, I mean, you also have a. situation with the Chargers, a really thinnet linebacker.

I believe just Davis Brown is out for the season now. Denzel Perryman is already out. So pretty much your best run defenders are not going to be playing this game. Corey Legit's already out for the year. That's why I'm picking Baltimore. Even though I love this Chargers team, I just think it's a bad batch up.

And then you go back to the other side of the ball. And watching them play last time, I talked to Philip Rivers a little bit recently, and he just said that very rarely this season where we ever just thoroughly outplayed. And that's what happened last time against Baltimore. And I watched a good chunk of that game again a couple hours ago. And you're just watching this Baltimore secondary, the defense in general, but especially the secondary.

And so much of what they do, you just watch a play. And it's like, well, I don't know what that coverage was. And I don't know what that coverage was. The way they spin the safeties and Wetto moving around all over the place and just how complex everything is, there was a play against Baltimore last time where the charges are, I think, at the 15-yard line, it was a third down,

Rivers got sacked, or excuse me, Rivers got hit as he threw. And it was one of those things where Rivers is such an anticipatory thrower and he hits his drop and he's about to let the ball go and the guy's not open.

And for Rivers to be that hesitant and to be that wrong about some of these early down decisions or decisions early in the down that he's making, you don't see that very often. But that's where this Baltimore team is. They're so complex on the back end. They're so disciplined.

And they're just so hard to diagnose that it really takes away a lot of what the Chargers advantages are on offense, which is Rivers being able to make decisions early on based on what he can diagnose and understand. Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating to me. One of the things I don't think, I obviously because they're still in the playoffs, it's hard to get a read on it.

But that's not disqualifying for certain candidates. I don't know why there isn't more. in Wink Martindale as a head coach. Because I think the best thing you can possibly do right now is have an offensive guru. But the second best thing you can have is a guy who clearly understands how to stop these offenses. And that's what I'm really looking towards. And I would maybe put Martindale in maybe my top 10 of candidates. I totally, I'm with you. I am with you. He's, the job he's done is so impressive. If you were hiring a defensive coordinator to be

head coach, would you have him call the defensive place? I think that the biggest thing is sort of a philosophy, building a philosophy. I don't think you necessarily need to call the exact coverages every single play, but I think you would want him to be in the defensive meanings and that sort of thing. I sort of think, unless it's a Sean McVeigh hands-on type thing, you know, one of the things, so I don't know if I've ever

told this story, but when I didn't, I obviously he grew up a huge football fan and all that stuff, but I didn't feel like I knew all of the intricacies. And so when I got on the NFL beat in 2012 for the Wall Street Journal, I called Brian Billick and I was just like, let's just watch film together. And he basically, we spent a day together. I went to his house in Baltimore. It was amazing. He took me out on his boat. And we just talked about football for an entire day. And one of the things he said, he talked about it because he obviously had called plays in Minnesota. And then he took, you know, he didn't call plays in Baltimore for for long stretches. Obviously, he did sometimes. But he had this thing called the 3 a.m. rule.

And the 3 a.m. rule was that when you wake up in your head coach, you need to be thinking about one thing. And whatever that thing is, it needs to be, you need to be laser focused on it. And if you're calling plays, you're always automatically going to be focused on two things, because there's always going to be something else. You're going to be distracted a little bit because you're trying to build an offense. And I always, that's sort of shaded. my view on this thing. And I've always thought that maybe you shouldn't have the head coach calling plays. And now I think that the offenses have changed so much to where obviously Andy Reed,

you know, in Kansas City, who had stepped away from play calling in Philadelphia. Obviously, he's breaking the mold a little bit. Sean McVeigh is Sean McVeigh. And so- Sean Payton,

Doug Peterson, Frank, Frank, Frank, Matt Nagy. It's a new era to where I think that it's obviously okay to, to call the place, okay. But I think that if you can get a,

with not calling the plays, you should. The only reason I ask is because Dan Quinn is now taking that over in Atlanta. Mike Zimmer does it in Minnesota. And it's just, we don't normally hear as much about it, but it feels like people are going to are going back that way a little bit. I mean, the idea that Dan Quinn essentially said, I am the defensive coordinator now. We, that's just as new. That's new.

So I would just curious about your take on it. Do you remember when Mike McCarthy panicked after the NFC championship game and gave up play calling and then. Yes. four months in, fired his offensive coordinator and said, I'm calling it place again. Yes, exactly. So it's just, I don't know.

We hear about it all the time. We didn't mention Kyle Shanahan also with head coaches. I mean, it's a new era on offense. Yeah, and that's what I'm curious to see whether it will go to defense. I don't know the answer. I was just wondering if you had a thought on it. All right. So who are you picking the deck?

I had many. Chargers of Ravens. Ravens. Okay. We're both on that. It's tough for me to do. I like this Chargers team. I picked them to go to the Super Bowl.

I just think this Ravens squad is a very bad matchup. And I think the Ravens present an interesting challenge for everybody throughout the entire playoffs. And I think that's why they have a real shot to make a lot of noise. All right. Let's get to the fourth game of the weekend. The Red Hot Philadelphia Eagles who are six and four in their last 10 games. Go to the apparently not Red Hot Chicago Bears who are 9 and 1 in their past 10 games.

You've already said that Nick Foles is. going to burn down the bears. Would you like to stick with that assessment? I just want to say something. I love working with you. I love doing a podcast with you. I love calling you my coworker. There is nothing I can do in this game preview except troll the shit out of you. That's totally fine. I wouldn't expect anything else. That's all I can do. When I look at this game

and try to analyze it, all I can see is me yelling about Nick Foles on Sunday night. I don't even care about the Eagles. I hope it doesn't happen, but it would be really funny if Nick Foles is through for like 500 yards and six touchdowns. I mean, that's the only way I'd be okay with the bear is losing. All you can do is tip your cap if that happens. We talked about this a little bit. This is really the game we got into the most on Sunday night show. And we talked about how for all the Nick Foles craziness and all the Nick Foles madness that's going on,

I'm more afraid of the reasons that the Eagles won the Super Bowl. Bowl last year outside of Nick Foles. I'm afraid of some really good, the lines and the infrastructure provided for the quarterback. The way that they've been able to use play action and get Nick Foles easy throws, the way that they were using motion a little bit more often now. So many of the mesh concepts that have given teams trouble, they've used to great success over the last couple weeks. Every once in a while, you're going to have that Nick Foles throw that makes no sense.

That happened last year, too. at the NFC championship game, there were plenty of them. The throw to Nelson Aguilar in that Texans game is an example. But I'm more afraid of Fletcher Cox destroying James Daniels every once in a while,

of Brandon Graham beating up Bobby Massey, of the offensive line being able to get some stuff going on the ground the same way they did against Houston. That is what I'm afraid of. I guess against Washington,

excuse me. And a couple of Eagles fans are mentioning how the Eagles secondary has been so much better and what I was saying about them struggling is an outdated opinion about the Eagles. Would we like to go over the passing games

that the Eagles have played against recently? They own Josh Johnson, bro. They destroy Josh Johnson, man. No chance for Josh Johnson. And DeAndre Hopkins had nine catches for 100 yards. The other wide receiver for the Texans is a guy I've never heard of. So I'm not sure that I'm right.

Deiard are Sean Watson through for 340 yards on 40 attempts. The Eagles are, you could take advantage of them on the back end. And that's why I'm concerned about the Bears a little bit, because the Bears aren't the team that can necessarily do that with ease. So I'm looking at how much the Eagles Lions can dominate this game. And if they can, then I think Philly has a pretty good shot. But I also think that a lot of the stuff you see work for the Eagles typically or that has worked in recent weeks, I don't think is going to work that well against the Bears.

Matt Bowen put up a really interesting clip of Chicago's defense from the Minnesota game. game where they had trips to Minnesota had trips to the right with a crosser coming from the backside on fourth down. And we've seen the Eagles do so much effective stuff with concepts like that over the last couple of years. That's why they're so dominant on a third down, just really beating up man coverage. And what the Bears do on that play is they actually have the safety from the backside come down and cut that route off. And they've done that a ton all season with both Eddie Jackson and Adrian Amos. They allowed those guys to be aggressive and to play really fast downhill against those sorts of plays.

I think we're going to see a lot of that type of coverage where the bears really let their safeties loose to disallow those sorts of crossing and mesh routes to kind of unfold and develop. So I have a lot of faith in the bear's ability to slow down Nick Foles. Maybe that will come back to bite me, but I still think the bears win this game. It's funny to me because it's almost sort of a different version of the Chargers, Ravens thing, where I'm not even sure we know what this. Nick Full's offense looks like yet. I mean, the Nick Fulls offense changed so dramatically from

the start of the Nick Fulls era in 2017 until the Super Bowl. And so I actually think it weirdly works against the Bears. Obviously, the Bears have way more talent and should win this on paper when you just look at the fact they're playing with the backup quarterback. But I guess what I'm saying is the best thing to throw at an elite defense is a wildly unpredictable kind of can't really get a read on them offense. I think that's true. But I I also think we kind of know what the Nick Foll's offense is. They want to RPO play action you to death.

They want to RPO play action to death. And right now, they're using a lot of motion combined with play action to just give themselves better windows and just give Nick Foles more easily defined reads. I just think if you want to attack this Bears team underneath, good luck. I mean, they tackle extremely well.

Again, I mean, this team, the safeties are playing downhill with a fervor. I mean, it's, I really think that anything the Eagles throw at them, the Bears are going to have not an easy time, but they're going to be ready for it. And the same way that I would feel that way about Baltimore, just a defense that's extremely disciplined and is really able to defend you at every single level. That's how I feel about the Bears right now. I don't think that the Eagles offensive line is the type of team that's going to allow the Bears pass rush to dominate this game, but I also don't know if it needs to. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I just think that there's going to be, I think one of the things that was so interesting,

about the Nick Foles era was sort of the development of the different types of plays. Doug Pearson talked about it. They used about 10% more RPO's and they did with Wence. And I'm wondering if they'll expand that or they'll shrink that this year.

And I'm intrigued to see it because again, as I said, one of the most interesting and fun things to watch as Foles developed last year was just how they changed the playbook. So what we'll see on Sunday, I'm very intrigued to see. By the way, Nick Foles, did he, what, tie the Eagles record all time for consecutive completions on Sunday?

Yeah. I mean, they're giving him a ton of easily defined throws. And he's making a bunch as well. But I still, that's what I was saying, is that I'm more afraid of the infrastructure that this team has than I am about anything else because they've shown such a propensity for giving Foles the right types of plays and the right types of throws. It's remarkable the job that Doug Peterson and those guys have done. It's extremely impressive. We went through this on Sunday night. The Eagles have a better coach, and they probably right now at this very moment have a better

quarterback, and I think you can't discount that. I do think it's going to be very close. I actually, non-troll for you, I do think the Bears win, but I think it's quite close. I mean, I think it's 17 to 15 type of thing. So looking at the over-unders for the. these games. I was just going to mention that. The Bears is at 41. The Chargers is at 41 and a half and Seattle and Dallas is at 43. I'm tempted to go over in the Chargers game. I'm tempted to go under in the Seattle game. And I think that Philadelphia and Chicago is going to be right there. I think it's

an ugly game. I think both of the Seattle game and the Philadelphia Bears game are going to be ugly. I think that the Chargers, even though it looks like a defensive subfuss, has a chance for more points. Again, just because of matchups. Yeah. No, I I also, I think the playoffs such a weird thing. I mean, you had last year, you had Blake Portals went into Pittsburgh and scored 45 points. Yeah, it's true. I think it's just really hard to predict the,

just how the games will go. I think it's easier to pick the winners and losers, but as far as how the games go, I don't think you can really tell that until the end of the first quarter. I mean, the Eagles and Bears would probably be, you know, 46 to 40, like the Chiefs Rams. That would be the weirdest game I've ever seen, is if the Bears could somehow.

I'll score 40 points against his Philly team. All right, man, that's all we got. That's our last kind of commentary on what's going to happen this weekend until it happens. It's a weird life. I'm not ready for the Bears to be back in the playoffs. I don't know how Sunday is going to go. I'm going to be probably in my hotel room in Dallas just shaking in the corner. It's not going to be fun.

I'll be in my new home in Los Angeles that we just moved to some apartment. And I will be trolling you via text message. That sounds great. I'm really looking forward to it. it. All right, guys, as always, thank you so much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. We'll be back to you on Sunday evening, Sunday night. The games are over at like seven. I guess we can talk about that later. Perfect. We'll be back to you at some point on Sunday like we always are. So thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks, guys.