The Ringer NFL Show - Wild-Card Weekend Was, in Fact, Wild (Ep. 216)

Episode Date: January 9, 2018

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark recap wild-card weekend, including how the Titans were able to pull off that crazy comeback in Kansas City (01:00), why Matt Ryan was the best player on any team this weekend (13:00), and how defensive takeaways have become a necessity for the Jaguars to win (21:45). Then, the guys do some shopping on Nathan Peterman’s bizarre memorabilia website (29:00) and explain how Drew Brees is once again the focal point of the Saints offense (32:00). Plus, Danny Kelly joins the show with a Year in Review for last weekend’s losing teams (47:15), including which tough decisions the Rams will need to make to stay near the top of the NFC next season (53:45).  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin Wildcar weekend got a lot wilder than I think we figured it was going to be. I loved it. And I was so glad, you know, when we had the podcast on Friday, we predicted pretty much chalk. And also, the line suggested this was just going to be sort of a milk toast weekend. And so the fact that we got what we got is insanely exciting. Yeah, some of them were a little bit more surprising than others.

I feel like the Titans, you probably just know and figure they were going to win that game. It didn't look like they were going to. And then obviously the Falcons are the Falcons. And that's not shocking. We'll dig into all of that as we move forward here. Plus, your craziest headline that you actually believe, my ringer of the week. And Danny is going to join us to kind of go over a year and review all the teams we lost and kind of where they go from here. But before we get into that, let's get into these four games beginning with that shocker in Kansas City.

Second and 10. Moriota's got it. throws deep middle caught end zone touchdown titans 22 yards on the strike to eric decker and how about tennessee down 21 three at the half they've come all the way back to take the lead with 606 to go in the game Kevin i mean it's just a really terrible collapse by the chiefs but i mean the titans did enough to win it was just kind of a bizarre second half of that game from marionta throwing a touchdown pass to himself to Kareem Hunt getting pretty much no work. I mean, what are you, what are you taking away from the Titans winning that game? I think it was sort of a perfect storm for the Titans. Obviously,

Travis Kelsey is now in the discussion when we talk about those sort of MVP's, we don't find out until they're gone. Earl Thomas, Aaron Rogers, Ryan Tannahill in a weird way, as we've discussed. Travis Kelsey is now firmly, maybe on that Mount Rushmore for this season. The, the, the Chiefs fell apart when he wasn't there. I think that the Titans got pretty lucky. I think when Marcus Marriotto catches his own touchdown pass, yes, that's luck. But having said that Marcus Marietta now is in his third year and he's never, I don't think he's ever going to be an elite elite quarterback,

but there have been enough games where the team has been good enough. He's made a couple of big plays. I mean, he threw a block that sealed the game. And so I think that he's not, is he a great. great quarterback? No. Is he a good quarterback? For most of the game, he was not, but he's athletic enough and smart enough to make a handful of plays that got them to win. Having said that this was a Chief's failure. This was an ab- this is on the Chiefs 99.8%. And then the other, the other 0.2% is pissed off Mike Mularky avenging the report that he was about to get fired.

The fact that the Chiefs collapsing in the second half is the reason, that Mike Malarkey is going to keep his job as hilarious. And I kind of hate that for Marcus Mariotas's like future and his upside as a quarterback. Because I think that Mario da has a lot of talent. I think that he can still be a very good quarterback. He had an objectively bad season. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, I hate seeing him in this offense.

I think that they do not use him played in his strengths that well. There are elements of what you saw of what Marcus Mario da that can be in that game in two different ways. One, I believe PFF had him at 16. You mean it can be a receiver? Well, yeah, that's exactly what they need him to be for him to reach his upside. No, I think that you saw what he can do in certain areas of the field with certain elements. So he was, I think, 16 of 19 between the numbers for 188 yards. And he really is good on passes in that area.

He's not good outside the numbers. He was terrible outside the numbers this year. And I think part of the reason, part of the way they can help him is that Marcus Mariotta was the best play action quarterback in the NFL this year on her throw. basis. He had 122.8 rating. He had 5.5 more yards per attempt on average with play action than without. And there were a lot of plays in that game where he used it well. When they can kind of empty the middle of the field and let him work there, he has really good touch between the numbers. And I think you saw that. So if they can lean on that, that's going to help them. And they did Mario da runner. Think about how many plays he extended, the scrambles that got them first downs.

That can be devastating. So I think that was kind of the. combination, right? It wasn't necessarily that the chiefs, the play calling everything else is going to get roasted. They didn't have the ball. The Titans bled that game in the second half with a combination of Mario to scrambling and Derek Henry getting it done on the ground. And that's the way that you can beat a team that's better than you is by bleeding out the clock and just not letting them run any plays. I mean, they ran seven plays in the third quarter. Yeah. You want Kareem Hunt to get more work in that game, but it's just was simply they weren't sustaining any offense, period. Yeah. You know, a brain and Kylie, who's a radio host in Missouri, tweeted this out. And they had, they ran 11 plays in the second

half when they led. And four of them were Cream Hunt run. Would you have wanted two more? Maybe. But it's not like they, they, they benched him or something or they took them totally out of the game plan. I mean, the, the play calling thing, it's, it's a little bit overblown, in my opinion. You know, Marcus Marriota, his splits can be really ugly. And I know. obviously you can reverse engineer and look at, you know, his numbers in the win versus numbers in his loss. And across the NFL, it's always going to look pretty bad. But I think he's two and a half more times likely to throw an interception in a loss. I mean, his, when he's bad, he can be really, really bad.

And I thought that as long as you sort of avoid, and listen, a lot of the sort of bad Marcus stuff can sometimes be a product of a weird offensive line, a weird offensive scheme. there have been points this year where his receivers certainly haven't helped him. That was true of a lot of the wild card game. But I was assuming that as long as Marcus wasn't a disaster, and he has been at times this season, that the Titans are going to be in this late. And that's why I'm not totally shocked this happened, because a good Marcus Marriota or a decent Marcus Marriota can make enough plays at the end of the game. And I know, look, making enough plays to win as a way,

well-worn cliche that basically was invented by coaches, but that's actually what happened with the Titans. So let's get into the other side of this because I feel like we can't address this game without having an Andy Reid conversation. We're going to talk about Alex Smith a little bit later with Danny, so we're not going to dig into that right now. But I mean, this is just another terrible playoff moment for Andy Reid. I'm not sure that there's a couple different directions you can go with this in my mind. This team shouldn't have been that good this season. They were not good on defense. They lost Eric Barry in the first week of the season. Their offensive. talent hadn't changed very much.

It was mostly just a product of how they really game the system schematically and were a better offense than any right to be. So the fact that Andy Reid created this offense and was one of the most efficient football pretty much out of nothing is the reason that they're in the playoffs in the first place. But then, again, when it comes down to it, there's just this unbelievable failure in the most important moment. And that's kind of just Andy Reid's legacy in general.

Yeah. I mean, it really is interesting to me because at this point, the only thing Andy Reid can do, and it's a shame because he's such, he's been such an offensive innovator. You know, it goes back to something that I think Chuck Closterman said a couple of years ago on our boss Bill Simmons podcast, which is that Andy Reed is an elite coach at what, 98% of things that coaches have to do? Like, he's better during the week. He's better on, you know, before the game. The only only. time he's bad is game management and then in the fourth quarter of playoff games and guess what both those things are very very important and at this point in his career the only thing even though he's he's invented a million schemes even though going back to not ignoring what he's been doing with the spread this year he was an innovator in some of the west coast stuff in the 90s when that that offense was still developing and his legacy unless he wins a super bowl in the next couple years which barring a mohomes you know, rise to superstard and will not happen,

his legacy will be that every time he got to a big spot, he choked. And that's not only is it a shame, it's probably well-deserved because there's a pretty large sample size at this point. So it's equal parts tragic and well-earned. In the past 15 years outside of Bill Belichick, who do you think is the best head coach in the NFL? Pete Carroll. That's a good answer.

I mean, he has, Pete Carroll's, when a Pete Carroll get hired in Seattle, it's been eight years. And then, and then Reed right there. I mean, that's Andy Reid's probably right in that conversation. I mean, the fact that he's winning almost double digit games a year is, it's remarkable. It's just, they can never get over the hump. It depends.

The Carroll question, I mean, that just comes down to, did they have to, who did the most in the last 15 years? Did Andy Reid's consistency, Trump, Carol's sort of bright, shining run? over five years. The answer is probably no. But I mean, I think that that's my point is that Andy Reid is in that conversation very near the top. Oh, without a doubt.

And you consider what it takes to have done what he has done with every single team year and in year. Yeah. But also, he gave a lot to the sport as far as innovation, which you can't say for most of the really good coaches in the last handful of years. Andy Reid, I mean, even this year, look how many schemes around the NFL were just straight up ripped off from what Andy Reid didn't. week one. The New England Patriots, who by the way are probably going to win the Super Bowl, admitted in week two that they just stole a bunch of plays from the chiefs in week one. I mean,

that's it. That is part of Andy Reid's legacy as much as, you know, the unpleasantness. And hopefully, I mean, it's always difficult to parse this, but I'm hoping that his offensive coordinator this year did a good chunk of that innovating because he now runs my football team. Can we talk about that now? Can we talk about that right now? sure we can talk about it now for 30 seconds okay i like matt nagy i had a long conversation with him in august about rpo's i think he's an interesting hire and i think that it's sort of what we talked about with the the sort of macbay effect that okay he had one year coordinating experience basically um i'm i'm totally okay with it the bears weren't going to get anybody better i'm in

i think about it in a couple different ways i think if you look at what the chiefs were on offense and what trubisky would be in a play action you know move the quarterback around RPO heavy system. I think that it makes total sense. I think what he's going to be able to do with Tariq Cohen makes me excited. Just the innovation side of it and how much they can just improve the situation for their quarterback and their overall offensive outlook. I'm excited about that.

At the same time, he was never more than a co-offensive coordinator. He has very few. Well, I mean, that's, if he, I mean, Brad Childress was sort of a figurehead in his last year. No, I'm talking about with Andy Reid. Oh, right. Yeah. I mean, that's true. But he was,

Nagy was the co-offensive coordinator in Kansas City with Brad Childress. Sure, but he was also the co-offensive coordinator with Andy Reid this year. I mean, there is, Andy Reid takes, has a lot of ownership of that offense. And, I mean,

it's not as if Matt Nagy is just this brilliant play caller who happened to have an offensive mind and head coach that used to do that. This is not like McVeigh. I mean, McVeigh had a season and a half's worth, I believe, of calling plays. And Matt Nagy does,

not. So I just feel like parsing who deserves the credit for that offense and what it is is difficult. And it's hard to predict what guys without that kind of managerial experience as a coordinator will do when given a head coaching job. I am excited about this, but it is tepid excitement. That's what I will say. When I did a deep dive into RPO's in the off season, I saw a lot about how Trubisky excelled at RPO's when it was in North Carolina. the Bears do anything creative with RPO's this year? And do you expect that to be an uptick as far as Nagy taking over? Not a set. They didn't really.

Most of the play action stuff the Bears did was based on boots and getting Trubisky on the move, which I would like to see. I mean, I think that that is a, that should be a part of this offense. But I think that having him in the shotgun and running that type of stuff is a very good idea. I think that he will, it lends to his skill set. Robert, I can't believe there was a play that was fairly new that was on the cutting edge that John Fox wasn't all over. Yeah, shocking.

Who could have ever imagined it? Who could have imagined that there would have been an innovation that passed John Fox by? All right, the Titans were not the only underdog to win this weekend.

The Falcons ended the Rams Cinderella story with an impressive win in Los Angeles. At Ryan will be in the shotgun and flanked by Freeman with a couple tied ends looking into a five-band secondary. From the seven shotgun snap

on the goal to go. Here comes the rush. He throws a long pass far sideline. It's an over-the-shoulder catch on the near pipeline. T touchdown! Crap! touchdown Julio Jones.

The Rams were a fun story, Kevin. That story is no longer relevant. Nope. The Falcons just kind of came in and played like a team that went to the Super Bowl last year. Matt Ryan, do you know what his quarterback rating under pressure was? I mean, it had to be something ridiculous because he was under pressure the entire game. The first half especially. Let me just, let me just give you a top five for the weekend, okay?

Alex Smith under pressure. Quarterback rating in that game, 42. Jared Gough, 53. Cam Newton, 69. Marcus Marriota is 79. Matt Ryan is number one. Marcus Marrota was number two with 79. Matt Ryan was 108.9. Matt Ryan went under, when under pressure,

was better than the vast majority of players at any time in the NFL. He did a really good job of extending plays. The reason that significant is obvious, which is that Aaron Donald was going to get his. He was going to wreck the game. The pocket was going to collapse routinely because that's what pockets do when you're playing the Los Angeles Rams. Matt Ryan was impervious to it. That is my takeaway from this. Matt Ryan, it's not ever going to be 2016 again as far as that offense, but that was a hell of performance by him.

And that's kind of what I wrote yesterday was that it's time to recalibrate your expectations. of the Falcons. I mean, it's not, the 2016 offense is not coming. We're 17 games in. It's not going to be just that mindless eating machine of a group. That still doesn't mean that they're not a real contender when you consider what this team is.

Because the offense has enough. Julio Jones in the playoffs is just an entirely different beast. I mean, every time that the stage gets huge, that guy just plays out of his mind. And we're going to see that. He was the best player on the, the field on Sunday outside of him and Aaron Donald. I mean, they're going back and forth. Every game where Julio is the best player on the field, the Falcons have enough to win.

There is enough elsewhere on that roster where that they're dangerous. And then the defense in my mind is what really makes them interesting. Just because you still have, I mean, I know we're a year removed. They're not rookies anymore, but they're all still like 23 years old. I mean, just because we saw Dion Jones in the Super Bowl doesn't make any older. It's like last year when everyone was talking about the Cubs, it's like, no, they're all still 24. They've just been around. I mean, you have Dionne Jones, the fact that, you know, Tag McKinley is making plays, they have so much athleticism on their offensive line just across the board that those guys

can really affect the game. They blitz the solid amount. I think that was 100% a part of their game plan. And they tackled extremely well in space. And that's what this group can do. We saw it against the Saints. They do a great job of limiting these kind of space player running backs that have such an impact on the game now because.

all their dudes in the secondary in the back end can just cover so much ground. So they're interesting, man. I mean, I just think they have enough even if this version is not as thrilling or as captivating as the one last year was. Obviously, their defense stepped up in a big way as the season went along. And we always knew that there was enough talent on the offense that they could click like this. So this isn't a total surprise. We actually probably should have seen it coming. And I'm disappointed in myself for picking the Falcons.

I kind of am too. It's easy to get caught up in the Rams, though. I think that there's such a good story. They were so fun. You know, I understand how it happened, even though you're probably right. So the two guys I want to talk about, number one, as you just mentioned, Dion Jones, the athleticism there. Essentially, every team has figured out that having a running back who can play in space, who can go up the seam routes, who can spread the, you know, in the spread formation,

you know, basically catch a ball out of the backfield whenever. that's really important because the matchup with linebackers is, you know, basically guys who can play in space have an all-time advantage right now, more than any other era with linebackers, because linebackers just aren't what they used to be. Dionne Jones is as athletic a guy as there is in that spot. To have him in the middle, in the middle of the field, taking away those sort of things is a huge advantage.

I saw a PFF right up that essentially he was dominant in taking away the underneath passes. And if you can take away that in the modern NFL and you can just blow up those plays, that's really important because underneath passes, unfortunately, are a huge part of the game right now. And Robert Alfred is the other guy.

I mean, just great in coverage. They're getting, they are a deeper. Yeah, fantastic game. They are deeper than we thought on defense. And I'm excited about it. And I'm ready for anything against the Eagles.

See, to me, it's not necessarily that they're deeper. I think they have more guys than they had last year by virtue of health. I mean, that's the biggest difference to me. Obviously, McKinley is a new factor. But really, it's just that they have all of their guys at their disposal. There's no one that's hurt on that defense. They didn't have Truffat last year. They made the Super Bowl.

That's right. They didn't have Truffant. That's a good point. Yep, he's the other guy. I mean, so think about it, Claiborne, Trufant. I mean, their depth. is just is very good, but it's more so that they just haven't gotten hurt.

I mean, this is the full stable of Falcons defensive players, and that's important. And the other factor here that we haven't mentioned yet is the fact that Dan Quinn is an excellent defensive football coach. I mean, that team on Sunday, just like a really well-coached team in two different ways.

One, just preparation in general. I mean, the degree to which they snuffed out a lot of the screen game and just were able to see it unfold before it even happened against a very creative play caller was immensely impressive to me. And the other thing of it, this is something that doesn't get talked about enough, just period. Tackling.

They tackled so well. And I'm thinking of a couple different plays. And Jones, obviously, that sticky hat on Gurley in the backfield was disgusting. And there was another one where I just jumped off the screen. Brian Poole just dropped Gurley on a screen in the open field. And when your nickel corners are, you know, bringing down 230-pound, Todd Gurley is in the open field one yard past the line of scrimmage. That's how you beat a team like the Rams.

The thing that I've written about all year is this sort of check down culture in football and how there's more passing than ever, but yet yards per, air yards per attempt has gone down over basically since it started the passing boom in 2011. Quarterbacks are just taking what's in front of them. And it's less visually arresting than ever. but it's effective. And the reason it's effective is because most teams can't tackle.

And if you drop off a pass four yards in the air, it's going to get eight or nine yards because most teams are unable to stop it. The Falcons have put an emphasis on tackling. I've talked to Dan Quinn about this. I've talked to the linebackers about this.

They are as well-trained a team, and this comes from Pete Carroll in Seattle. They're as well-trained a tackling team as there is. They use all sorts of props. I mean, they're built for this. And so in a lot of ways, they are more equipped to navigate the modern NFL and how offense is like to operate than ever. And by the way, I am anticipating Nick Foles being captain checkdown in the playoffs. This is not Carson Wentz. So that's one thing to keep an eye on. Those short underneath passes are going to get absolutely destroyed and blown up

by the Falcons. I mean, we'll talk about this when we preview that game. But if they don't Bortles, Nick Foles, on Sunday, and just run 38 running plays. I have no idea what the Eagles are doing. But again, we will get to that at a different time. Bortles it. Could you imagine at the beginning of the year if someone had told you that Bortles it would be an effective playoff strategy? I think it requires the right team building strategies before that, but yes.

All right. The first game on Sunday did not have any Julio Jones S fireworks, but it did end in. familiar fashion with Jacksonville with the defense sealing a win against the bills. Benjamin sets up to the near side. Peterman looks to the far side. The throw pucked up in the air. Interception attempt, Jalen Ramsey.

He's got it. And it's over. The Jacksonville Jaguars defense gets it done. And the Jaguar survived. I tweeted this actually after the Aaron Colvin interception. but it is definitely applicable to that Joe and Ramsey pick. When you watch the Jaguars play, it just feels like they believe they deserve the ball

more than the players on the other team's offense do. And I've always been fascinated by defenses that reached that point because one, I think it comes from two different elements in my mind. It's about mindset, but it's also about necessity. And as someone who kind of understood the modern NFL through the lens of the mid-2000s bears, who understood that if they did not score, they were going to lose,

the Jaguars are very familiar to me. I understand their thought process, and they have absolutely reached that point where it's like, yep, it's ours. We're going to take this from you twice a game, and we're probably going to take one of them back to the house. There are so many stats we know about turnover, luck, and all that, and I've talked many times about how what's different about the Jaguars is,

if you say, okay, this team is going to get a couple turnovers, basically probably score off a turnover, or literally score during a turnover, typically that's not a sustainable way to win football games. But this is one of the few teams and the mid-2000s bears are another one of them where that is 100% sustainable and it's something you can rely on every single week. they are that good. Tyrod Taylor led all quarterbacks in this game with 134 yards. That's all you need to know about how this game was played. Yeah, I totally agree.

And I've tweeted this before so that I easily could bring it up. The Levy era bears first, sixth, third, 13th, second, eighth, first sixth, and takeaways a year. That's, I would call that sustainable. They did it a couple different ways. They were like the tomm and stuff, whatever. With the jags, it's twofold.

It's one, their corners are just, I mean, ball hawking just condors. I mean, it's unbelievable how much space they can cover and just how much they are able to get their hands on the ball. And two, it's the Angakwa kind of factor. I mean, the fact that they have so many strip sacks because that pass rush is so good, it gives you a level of volatility that makes you extremely dangerous. So, again, it's not surprising that the Jags past defense is good. It's just week after week, it's able to carry them to wins. Jimmy Garoppolo, I just want to say, Jimmy Garoppolo ruined the Jaguars bid for history,

and we needed to reflect on how good Jimmy Garoppolo is. The Jaguars in December were on pace to be the first team in almost 50 years to lead the NFL and takeaways, sacks, and points against. And Jimmy Garapolo so thoroughly dismantled them that they finished second. in all three of those categories. They went from first to second in all three of those categories. So they're not historically good because Jimmy G carved them up. Because Jimmy G is historically good?

Yeah, Jimmy, Jimmy G. That's pretty much where we are. Jimmy G took the records from them, yes. One of the things that I, I mean, obviously the past defense is great, but impressed me on Sunday. And it was, you know, ate it in part by the fact that LaShaul McCoy was playing on one foot. But the Jaguar's run defense was such a problem for much of the season. And again, it's still the worst thing that they do on defense.

But they had so many individual guys that played well in that game. I mean, I'm going to get to one of them a little bit later. But I think the factor that we haven't really considered with that defense, I mean, people have talked about it. But, you know, it's just he's not one of the bigger names because of who else is there. If Darius plays the way he did on Sunday, they have a real chance to just destroy everyone. Yeah. In terms of allowing points.

because him just wrecking things in the middle of the field, eating up blockers, making plays down the line of scrimmage, when you have Campbell and a couple other guys in that front seven, that's enough. I mean, again, it's not, it's gotten better as the season goes on, but it's still not great. But I was just impressed with overall what the run defense looked like on Sunday.

Yeah. I mean, when you, I wrote about this today on the ringer.com, Tuesday, but when you have the luxury of going out and getting Marcel Darius and making that, fit into the cap because of the way that the cap operates now obviously at some time down the road the jaguars will have to make some tough decisions but the luxury of being able to say okay our run defense will will improve we go out and get a guy who signed a 96 million dollar contract two years ago that's a nice luxury to have and you know there's so so many implications as far as cap carryover

and all that stuff but i i've been insanely impressed with with how tom cofflin has has been able to to turn this thing around. And a lot of it's been money management and those sort of trades are, are indicative of that. Well, yeah, their decisions are going to have to come next year, by the way. They're playing their defensive line

to figure it out. I mean, cutting their $20 million quarterback will certainly help. But their offensive, their defensive line, you know, kind of bill next year.

I mean, that's not sustainable. You're going to have to make choices very quickly here. It'll be fine. I'm not too worried about it. No, they'll be okay. I just, it's not as if those decisions have to come three years from now. Oh, no, I know.

I know. I know. But it's just there are a way, you know, less need, as, as he said in our piece today, you know, it's very, very rare that you actually have to let guys go anymore. And Blake Bortles is obviously a different animal because he's worth $20 million and it's a weird fifth year option thing. But very rarely do you have to let guys go for money anymore? And so I think that the Jaguars will be able to keep anybody they, they would like for next year.

With the exception of probably that involves $19 million $1,000 Blake Bortles. That's, I mean, that's the thing. They don't want Blake Bortles, so that doesn't count. So yes, you're correct in that that's part of the reason. We're going to get what to Tyra Taylor in a little bit when we talk to Danny. But so, you know, we don't want to hit on that as much right now. I mean, the bills, bills aren't that good of a football team.

I mean, that's just kind of the reality of it. They snuck in. It was very fun. You know, they were always fighting an uphill battle against that Jacksonville team. I think Taylor didn't play well, but how many guys do against the Jags? And their defense was solid. But when you cannot score, then it becomes a problem to win playoff games. Yeah, I'd say, hey, real quick, did you see Nathan Peterman and how he sells Nathan

Peterman to throw pillows on his official website? What? Nathan Peterman has a website. I'm going there right now. Okay, go on Nathan Peterman's Twitter page and click on. his official link and look what he sells. He sells Nathan Peterman throw

pillows. Nathan Peterman just throws blankets, fleece blankets that say Nathan Peterman and have his face on it. And he, uh, cell phone cases for Apple or Samsung. Kids onesies. I, there is

this is like Amazon, but just Nathan Peterman. Everything is available here. Also, the URL is incredible. It's Nathan dash peterman. Dot my Shopify.com. Also, it's not Nathan Peterman. All says Nate Peterman.

None of it is branded with the bills because he can't do that legally. Right. It's got the NFLPA stuff. This is amazing. There are four types of throw pillows on Nathan Peterman. You're underrating how much stuff is available here. I'm not hired at the Amazon of Nathan Peterman. That's true.

But you sold it as pillows. This guy has 10 different men's shirt options. Yeah, I know. I was leading with the funniest bit. I was leading with the funniest bit, which is the throw pillow. Like, maybe in some weird world, you want a Nathan Peterman's shirt, whatever, who cares?

But what do you need to throw? The pillow is the weirdest. The fleece blanket? Why would you have a Nathan Peterman? and fleece blanket. The fact that there are four pillows is just amazing. Let me tell you something. Two of them have his face on them.

One just has a football. It's a white football and a blue pillow and it just says Nate Peterman. Yeah. That's it. Dude. The career move for Nathan Peterman is just bottom out and be as bad as possible. And Nathan Peterman like cell phone cases would be the absolute top gag gift in Western in New York.

People, I really should just buy a bunch of these to give them out to people. It'd be fun. Also, what is a maniac sweatshirt? Yeah, I do. Listen,

we could spend the rest of the pot on this. Okay. Yeah, we should move on because now I'm going down. They only have a really, he really only has four or five designs. He repeats on every single, on every single item.

That's the right move. I mean, overhead with overall design work. I'm sure he's saving some cash. Just smart business. This is. like a top five funny thing in sports right now for me. Ryan O'Han,

Ryan O'Hanlon discovered it in the middle of the season and I threw it into one of my columns and it didn't get enough attention, I felt. And so I tweeted it out during the game. And it's, it's still. I miss that somehow. This is, it's still, I needed to get more. I needed to get more attention.

Don't normalize this. We can talk about that for the rest of the podcast. We have to move on a little bit. Final game of the weekend, Saints Panthers. It looked like the Saints were in control. Cam Newton makes some stuff happen, but just when you thought the Carolina might make a push, the Saints defense comes up big for them again.

Fourth down and the season for the Carolina Panthers. And for this New Orleans Saints? From the 34-yard line. Saints 31. Panthers 26. Three receivers left, two wide right. Newton. Pressure comes.

Newton in trouble. And Newton is set. Von Bell. Blitzing Cam Newton drops Newton to send the Saints on to the divisional round next weekend.

Kevin, we talked to most of the season. The Saints defense is much better than we thought. Those running backs, Alvin Kamaro is maybe the most exciting player in football. And when it all comes down to it, it turns out that just having Drew Breeze

is your quarterback is probably the most important part of this. Yep. It turns out that having Drew Breeze is better than not having Drew Brees. he was incredible on Sunday this was a weird game I think that we all

it's funny Micah Peters was on slow newsday on the ringer.com and he's a huge Saints fan and we were talking about how what it was like for him

to watch a Saints team in which Drew Breeze was not the focal point and six days later Drew Breeze is very much back to being the focal point. And that's a, it's a nice reminder. I don't know if the Saints make a run to the Super Bowl. I don't know if Drew Breeze is going to be as incredible every single game.

But what's nice to know is that they have a lot of offensive options. And Sean Payton is the kind of guy who's going to be able to game plan in a way that they will take advantage those options. So I think that they are absolutely a Super Bowl contender at this point. Some of the throws he made, I mean, I'm thinking of a couple of specifically. the one to Michael Thomas right by the pile on where Thomas kind of had to slide. You can put that in like a one by one box is the only spot. The one that just still doesn't make sense to me.

I watched it 100 times was the throw to Josh Hill up the seam where he puts it like just outside of the linebacker's head where only Josh Hill can see it as a back shoulder throw. You literally could only put that in one spot and he puts it right there. I mean, when Drew Breeze is on, it's still. something to behold. And that's what happened on Sunday. And then you kind of think about what Michael Thomas is when they're throwing the ball that often. And I don't, people don't really talk about him in the Julio, you know, Antonio Brown level of things. He's right below that. I mean, the guy

is just so good. He knows exactly what he is as a receiver. He's not fast and he ran like a four, five, five at the combine, something like that, but just uses his body incredibly well, understands as leverages really well. Such strong hands. I mean, it's, I don't know if Drew Breeze has ever had a true number one that plays like this. You know, Colston was a slot guy.

It was as much kind of a move tight end as Jimmy Graham was. I mean, watching Drew Breeze with a receiver like this is new in my mind. And it's fun, man. First of all, Danny Kelly saw Michael Thomas coming. He wrote about him last week. And then, did you see Michael Thomas then just retweeted a bunch of our content after that? No, really? Yeah, I guess he maybe liked the site or something after Danny wrote about him.

So, like, there were like four instances where Thomas are just smashing the retweet button on random things. Good. I'll take that. Why not? Maybe it was a mistake. I don't know. I just noticed it in the, in the feed that he was, he was just going around clicking. He was extremely online at the end of last week. Congratulations, Michael Thomas for Discovery, the ringer.com after Danny wrote about you.

So go back and read Danny's piece. it was really, really good and explains why Thomas is so valuable. But yeah, I know, I agree. I mean, this, we knew it's funny because we joked about this, even though Thomas was really good last season, we joked in the beginning of the season about where Breeze was going to get his weapons from. And I think that this, you know, it exceeded all of our expectations to have an offense this good, but I don't think you can really overstate how easy it is for,

Drew Breeze to make these throws. He's been doing it now for over a decade. He's incredible, and I hope that he wins this game because we need to do more appreciating of Drew Breeze if he truly is, you know, if this might be his last year in New Orleans, which is a possibility, right? Yeah, I mean, but it's like this conversation we had earlier. It feels like you don't have to make that decision anymore. No. And I don't think they do. This isn't an Alex Smith thing where Mahomes is sitting there. I mean, if there were, you were so good this, that Saints were so good this season that willingly moving on from that when you probably don't have to just seems odd to me.

Well, I mean, I think it's more of Drew Breeze has shown a, let's say, tendency to, uh, enjoy getting paid a lot of money. Sure. So. So. So. So, um, which by the way, same. Right.

So, um, but what I'm saying. Yeah, I can't blame Drew Breeze. No, it's, he's, he's really. he signed a couple of extensions that have been worth boatloads of money and if he reaches the market I would anticipate that he goes to, you know,

if someone comes in with sort of a blank check godfather offer, then the saints are vulnerable. Yeah, that's fair, but I just think they've been so good this year that it's mutually in the best interest of all parties in the world here to run this back. I don't ever want Drew Breastly of New Orleans. I'm just saying that's, it's a possibility.

Yeah, I don't want this team taken from me. I'm enjoying them way too much. Well, what about who says no when, when Drew Brees moves on to, like, Washington and then the Saints panic inside Bordels? I say no. The world says no.

No, thank you. That would be the darkest possible timeline. It's Alvin Kamara and Michael Thomas and Mark Engram and Bortles. We're going to talk about Cam Newton and just kind of the Panthers outlook from here. and just news came down that they fired their offensive coordinator and their quarterback coach. There's a lot of stuff moving pieces about that team that they're going to have to look at. So we'll get to that with Danny.

In the meantime, though, Kevin, let's get to your craziest headline from Wildcar Weekend. What you got? Donald Penn, great lineman. We love them here at Thringer.com. He says, John Gruden to the Raiders is just like Steve Kerr to the Warriors. I don't agree with that, Robert Mays. I don't think that the Raiders are as talented as the Warriors. I don't think this is going to be successful at all.

And so that is, that's something I'm going to go ahead and disagree with Donald Penn on. I think it's a, I know you're trying to be positive and all that, but let's take it easy, guys. I agree with you in the sense that it's not comparable when it comes to the talent involved. That being said, Donald Penn knows where he plays. like this is the right choice. Oh, so you're saying he's pandering. Yeah. So you're not,

you're saying, I mean, he's not going to compare him to whoever the hell manages the Oakland A's. Well, I think, I'm saying he might be more, based on what I, no,

that's not what I'm saying. No, I know. This happened because he plays in Oakland. No, I know. If, if the,

if the Raiders played in Miami or Tennessee, I don't think that comparison would be as understandable. Got it. So I get why it happened. You're saying if Penn's playing the local angle. Yeah. That's what's going on. But here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Penn played on Gruden's offensive line for three years. And they were particularly kind of grim three years. I'm surprised. I understand he has to sell this. But anyone who watched Gruden in the last couple of years in Tampa Bay knows that this is not, I mean, it's not Jim Harbaugh where he just everything. he touched in the NFL immediately got better.

So I just think that it's, it's, it's a, it's a weird hire to begin with. And I'm certainly not expecting instant success. I mean, Gruden has to relearn how to be a modern coach or learn how to be a modern coach because he's never been a modern coach. And so this idea is going to come in with these high expectations. It's, uh, it's a little misguided in my, in my opinion. So here's what we learn is that, even Donald Penn, who played for John Gruden,

forgot who John Gruden was in the past year. We all forgot how kind of a coach John Gruden was. And even Donald Penn did after playing for John Gruden. Yeah, I think we've blocked out like a good chunk, maybe five Gruden seasons. I think we all collectively blocked it out. Absolutely. Chris Sims.

I mean, the lasting memory is John Gruden beating up the Raiders in the Super Bowl with Monty Kiffin's defense. Like, good. I went to a, I went to a, a Giants, Bucks playoff game once. Like, a crappy one for some reason. I had a friend who was a fan, a Giants fan. But, I mean, those were some, those are some crappy teams, man. In the mid-2000s, I will admit that I had a little bit of a dalliance with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

And this is before Gruden got there. This was the Dungey era Buccaneers. I just love the players on that team. I love the defense. They were number one in my heart for a couple of years there in my early teenage years. Among the personalities that I ascribe that Super Bowl victory to, John Gruden is like 17th. Oh, I agree with that. I do not think of John Gruden when I think of the 2002 Bucks, who were a very important team to me.

Do you know what I forgot about? 2007 and 2008 for the Bucks, Gruden's last two years. Do you know who the top passer on both of those teams? us? No. Jeff Garcia. Oh, that's right. Oh, my God, the Jeff Garcia time. Yep, that happened. I completely... The list of quarterbacks

on those bucks teams are underratedly terrible. Gruden's last three years. There were two Jeff Garcia years and Bruce Radkowski as far as leading passers go. That's amazing. Oh, my God. If you're Derek Carr, if you're a Derek Carr, are you not worried

that you're about to be replaced by, like, Charlie Whitehurst. Just like Gruden just going to his random veterans guy. Gruden, it's going to be fun when people find out that Derek Carr isn't actually that good. Gruden working out like Josh Johnson to be the starter. I can't wait for that.

It would be the first team to do that this year. No, I know. All right. It's time for my ringer of the week. I was going to talk about Clayas Campbell. We hit him a little bit in the Jaguar section. I mean, the number two guy for me and I'm down to talk about him anytime anybody wants is Cameron Jordan. And

The guy has been ridiculous all season. And the fact that he played well enough on Sunday to call Matt Khalil. Speed bump. What was it? Speed bump. Speed bump McGee is how he referred to Matt Khalil. When you can do that as an NFL player and no one really bats an ice, it's like, yep, he's that good and that guy's that bad. You've reached a certain level.

And the reason, I mean, obviously Jordan's dominance is plain. I mean, he's clearly just on other world. talented player. It's not insightful to say Cam Jordan is good. But what stood out to me in that game against Carolina is that most of the time, because Jordan is such a good run defender, he sets up a lot as the left defensive end in that defense, but they put him at right defensive end to take advantage of Khalil. And he did several times. He played on both sides. He had actually a tip pass in the end zone that he's become better at than anyone now. In this world without JJ Watt, no one knocks down passes like Cameron Jordan. I mean, and that affects the game.

That stuff is real. But when you can move your guy anywhere and he's affected from pretty much every spot, then you can pick and choose who you want to take advantage of. And I think that's a really nice piece. That makes guys just so much more valuable when there isn't one spot where you have to pencil them in. It's harder to account for them as an offense. And really, you can play the matchups in any situation. And that's what the Saints can do with Cam Jordan.

So he does that as a pass rusher and then he was excellent against the run. his mobility and kind of ability to hold up on those zone plays. He's unlike really any other defensive end in the league right now, I think, in all the stuff he can do. You know, Callais Campbell plays inside and outside, but he affects the game in kind of a different way. You know, he had 14 and a half sacks, but he's a little less explosive.

I mean, Jordan is a very just unique entity, and he's fun to watch. I mean, he's one of the reasons that team has been as good as they have been. So I just want to say one thing about Matt Kullo. I wrote a story, as I said, of the ringer.com, about how the salary is exploded. Essentially, any veteran can be a bargain just because of the way the salary cap works now and that collecting these assets is as important as ever. And one of the points

I make is that it's really, really, really hard to sign a bad contract in the modern NFL. Matt Khalil, bad contract. Five years, 55 million. Well, they have an out after 2019, but still, I mean, his cap hit next year is 12.9, excuse me, is 6.9 and then 12.9. They would pay him essentially $25 million over two years after 2019. Or after three years, excuse me. NFL contracts are fake money, but he had, it's $31 million guaranteed. Bad contract. That's too much.

Yeah, it's not the best. All right. Coming up, Danny Kelly will be here with a year and review for each of the teams that lost this weekend. and we'll tackle the biggest question for those teams moving forward. It's the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. Kevin, January means three things. Cold weather, the NFL playoffs, and The Bachelor. The Ringer Podcast Network has responded by spinning off Juliet Liman's Bachelor Party podcast

into its own feed. Every Monday night, right after the show ends on ABC, we post Juliet's breakdown of the latest episode. Juliet's guests include former bachelors like Ben Higgins, former contestants like Ashley I, The ringers, Roger Sherman, and super fans like the sports gal. It's the most amazing and dramatic podcast journey you'll ever have. Tell The Bachelor Superfan in your life to subscribe to Bachelor Party on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Art 19, SoundCloud, or wherever you get your podcasts. Second and 10 at the 20. Five-man pressure, breeze steps away from pressure throwing over the middle, got a man open, caught at the 40 steps away at the 30 and 10.

Get into the races. Down the sideline at the 10 to the 5. diagonal into the end zone for the touchdown. 80 yards breeze to Tedkin Jr. And the New Orleans Saints are on the board, up six to nothing. Time to welcome in our good friend Danny Kelly. Danny, how many people tweeted at you after the Ted Gin touchdown on Sunday? I mean, every time Gin does something now, I get probably like 15 or 20 tweets.

It's pretty awesome. I guess I'm kind of driving the Ted Gin bandwagon these days. So, yeah, that's definitely a good thing. What a legacy. What a legacy to have. The Dark Knight and Ted Ginn. That's what we'll remember about Danny Kelly years from now. You guys, okay, so I think it was, I don't even know, was it in the preseason? We were kind of like predicting who could have big years or whatever.

He came up short of the thousand yard mark, I think, which is what you guys were howling at me about. But how was I supposed to know that the Saints were going to turn into like this smashmouth run team? I think if they hadn't done that, it definitely would have come true. So I'm sticking by it. I think you're all right. I'm not going to say you were wrong about that. That's very fair. He had a decent year.

All right, Danny, we're going to get into the year and review for all these teams and kind of their biggest question moving forward. So let's start with the Chiefs here. And when you're kind of thinking about this Chief's season, what are you going to be thinking about? Yeah, I mean, to me, this season for the Chiefs is just the story of two teams, really.

It was a Jekyll and Hyde Chiefs team. I mean, early on in the year, their Super Bowl caliber team, you know, I think they start 5-0. They'd be a couple of really good teams. They beat the Patriots. And it was this really exciting thing because they had this hybrid college offense that was morphed with the West Coast offense.

And Andy Reid had turned Alex Smith into this deep passing guy. And it was just really, really exciting. Kareem Hunt emerged as like an MVP candidate. Both Ian Smith were MVP candidates. And defenses really just didn't have an answer for this team early on. And then, you know, halfway through the year, partway through the year, all that kind of just fell apart. Casey lost six out of seven games.

I mean, they won one game in the course of two months. So they completely sort of just fell apart. And the offense just didn't really look like it had early in the year. I think Andy Reid went away from some of the things that they were doing really well early on. And then, you know, again, then they handed off play calling to Matt Nagy, who is now your Bears head coach. He kind of revived the run game. got things back on track,

and then, you know, the chiefs were really hot down the stretch. And, you know, so it was a, it was a tale of two teams, obviously, like they just did not look the same in the middle of the year.

And I think, you know, that two months slump really cost them. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like, in a way, though, this team kind of didn't have it.

And we knew that coming into the season. They, they were better than we thought they were going to because they jumped on teams. I mean, what they did schematically was just so impressive. And at a certain, point, you just kind of come back to Earth when teams have enough film on you and you get used

to it. I mean, there was always a defiance ceiling with this team in the long run. And I think eventually we just got there. Yeah, I mean, injuries were an issue also. And I think kind of like the Alex Smith thing, he came back to Earth a little bit, obviously. I think he had his best season in his career, obviously. And I don't think the MVP kind of talk early on was unwarranted. But he definitely showed that he wasn't kind of the MVP guy that we saw early in the year. But yeah, I mean, it was, I think that when you talk about putting a cap on this team, I think there was always kind of that feeling too. And we saw that in the playoffs, obviously.

We saw that last week against the Titans. So it's, I think for now, looking forward, it is, I mean, there's a huge amount of change that could happen now. And so, you know, both with Alex Smith being kind of like, how far can Alaskin' out, Alex Smith take you end, kind of the idea that even Andy Reed is kind of capping your ability to win in the playoffs, just based on his playoff, you know, sort of, you know, history or whatever. So what do you think is the biggest question going forward here for the Chiefs? I mean, I'm pretty sure it's obvious to most people, but what's chat about it? Yeah, I mean, is the Alex Smith era over in Kansas City? I mean, are they going to move on to Patrick Mahomes and kind of start to, you know, try and get that going? Obviously, he looked pretty impressive in his one start this year. Um, and I mean, I guess it does what Alex Smith did, did what he did this year. Is that enough for him to kind of stick around?

Obviously, they have a chance to trade him. And I think a lot of teams probably would be happy to, happy to trade for him at this point. I mean, so it's a potential for a huge amount of change. And if they do go to the Patrick Mahomes era, um, what does that mean? Are they still a playoff team? I think that when we talked about this a little bit, you know, on earlier shows, I think 100%. I mean, I think 98% the Alex Smith era is over in Kansas City. Yeah. I just feel like that team is in such bad shape with the cap, which is hard to do in this era, but they are. And you would save $17 million by moving on from him. And you drafted a quarterback in the first round that you traded a future first round pick to go up and get.

It just feels like all the writing is on the wall. And the question for me now more is, where does Alex Smith land? What value does he has after this season? Not did he do enough to stick around? How much is a team willing to give up for him based on what he was? I think at half time of that Titans game, I would have been 100% sure Smith was coming back.

Now, I mean, I just think, you know, Nagy's out. Childress retired. I don't know if anybody saw that. Childress is just not coming back. So they're going to have to either, I'm sure Reed will probably promote from within, but there's going to be some structural changes there. And there's probably an opening from a Holmes to come in,

which I didn't really think was possible, again, until that they blew that. If Smith had won a playoff game, it would have been really hard for them to have moved on from him. But the season ending the way it did, I mean, I think that everyone is pretty much open for change at this point. Yeah, I think that's true. All right. So a team that had most of their changes take place last offseason, the Rams.

I mean, one of the stories of the season, Danny, I mean, one of the things we enjoyed watching the most, and they were a fascinating group. I mean, when I think about the 2017 NFL season, they're going to be one of the teams I go to first. Yeah, I mean, they put together one of the most impressive offensive turnarounds, you know, maybe in league history. They were probably the, I mean, they were the worst offense in the NFL last year. And McVeigh, Sean McVeigh came in, kind of re-energized the entire organization. You know, he put together a good free agent class, added some guys to their offense that would, you know, really work in his system.

And then what he did was just simply incredible. I mean, he, okay, so the Rams have been accumulating talent for years. So it's not like he inherited like this talent deficient roster. But what he did was he finally figured out a way to deploy and utilize that talent. I think that Jeff Fisher just never could do for years. I mean, he took Jared Goff from what looked like a colossal bus. I mean, he had a historically terrible rookie season and then made him into what looks like a franchise quarterback. You know, he took Todd Gurley from what looked like kind of a ruined,

you know, demoralized running back and turned it back into one of the best players in the game. And so you really have to just tip your Captain McVeigh. I think what he did was amazing. Obviously, he hired a great defensive coordinator and, you know, basically handed off the defense to him to Wade Phillips. And so I think that was a really great choice too. But yeah, I mean, what he did in turning the Rams around was, I think it was a historical turnaround.

It was really, really impressive. it was and I think that you know you saw kind of a team that maybe was a year away we got excited about it I mean it seemed like in a crowded NFC they had a shot but most of this group will be back I mean this is a young team for the most part outside of a few key veterans yeah what do you think they have to do now Kevin or excuse me Danny to get over the hump here well I think well number one I think it was it was good to get some playoff experience I think that was big I mean if you look at I think they were probably least experienced playoff team in the whole field especially in the NFC

and obviously going up against the Falcons team that was, you know, they're battle-hardened playoff team. I think just getting that experience on the belt was big. I do think they have some big questions in terms of free agency this year, especially in the secondary

with Tremaine Johnson, Lamarcus Joyner, Nicol Robi Colbin. I think they're all free agents. And so, you know, they're going to have to make some pretty tough decisions, I think, in free agency

to try and keep this, you know, keep the core nucleus together and all that. But for me, it's like more of a psychological thing. I think can they build on this year? Can they keep that energy going? Can they kind of continue to be this chip on the shoulder team that they were this year?

And be kind of an NFC power again next year. I think obviously they were very impressive this year. But the big question to me is can they replicate that, I guess? What the Rams do financially is interesting to me just because like less need set for Kevin's story. it's more about having flexibility. You have to make some choices, but it's more about strategy that it is being put in a box.

The Rams have $50 million in cap space and some key guys hitting free agency. I think Lamarca's Joyner is probably the one guy I look at and say they need him. I mean, he does so much for them. I feel like with Tremaine Johnson, you can maybe go get a corner elsewhere. I don't think they give Watkins the money

that he's looking for just based on what other teams are probably willing to pay for him. So you have 50 million, and then they also have some interesting cap numbers. Robert Quinn is set to make $12.4 million next year. They would save $11.5 if they cut him. I know that seems crazy, but Robert Quinn isn't a $12.4 million pass rusher anymore.

Right, right. So there are some things kind of on the books. Michael Brockers is making $10.8 million. Michael Brockers had a nice season. Is he worth $10.8 million? I don't know. So there are some questions they have to answer. I think they have more flexibility than it seems based on the guys they have to resign.

But there is enough kind of malleability with this roster based on what they were to still be excited about this team for next year. That's really interesting too because, I mean, obviously they got to keep Aaron Donald. I mean, that's the big thing. And so do you want to put whatever it is going to be like $40 or $30 or $40 million into your defensive line cap for next season? Like that is something that they're potentially looking at doing. So yeah, the Robert Quinn thing is definitely interesting in the Brockers thing

because they're going to be dedicating a big chunk of change to Aaron Donald to keep him. should absolutely do that 100%. So, yeah, it's definitely going to me, that to me, the team building, roster building thing is kind of what to watch going forward for them. The Rams have a long way to go to catch the Jaguars and defensive lines spend it. Yeah, I mean, the Jags have done something insane.

I mean, that's part of the issue. Oddly enough, I mean, the Sioux thing and Wake, I guess, in Miami, the Jaguars and the dolphins spend the exact same amount of their 2018 cap on defensive linemen 30%, but the Jaguars because of the roll over cap are able to spend $57 million

on defensive linemen in 2018. Yeah, that's amazing. All right, let's move on. Danny, let's get to the Bills who, you know, just we're, it's a weird season. Not a great team. You know, they snuck in.

It was a cool story. But for the most part, we all kind of knew that this Bills team wasn't going to be a factor. The one question that's looming for them, without any doubt, is who's going to play quarterback for them next year? It's kind of similar with Kansas City. It just feels like the Tyrod Taylor era there is most likely over. Yeah, it was absolutely a weird year.

And I think, I mean, it felt like a failed attempt at tanking almost. And that was what it took for them to make the playoffs for the first time in 17 years, which is really ironic. I mean, just look at the list of players that the bills either let go or traded away in the offseason. Now, this was an all McDermint, because they had sort of, you know, the power struggle in the offseason, and so it didn't all coincide with just McDermott. But, I mean, they let Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Marquis Goodwin, Reggie Raglan,

Marcel Darryus, Ronald Darby, Barby, Darby, Roby Coleman all go. I mean, and those guys all had pretty good years. I mean, like, you could talk about Watkins being disappointing or whatever, but, I mean, those guys all played pretty, you know, big roles for their new teams. And so the fact that they still were competitive in the AFC and made the playoffs and all this stuff. It's actually pretty incredible that happened,

especially when halfway through the year, they decided to turn to Nathan Peterman, and that was a total disaster. So the one stat that just stands out to me about this Bill's season is the team had 16 turnovers in the entire year, and six of them came in one game. Tyro Taylor did not throw interceptions.

I mean, the fact that you threw one a tipped ball in the playoff game, is an outwire. I mean, you could say a lot of things about Tyraud Taylor. I mean, people have. I don't know why teams would be so willing and so excited to move on from Tyra Taylor. Tyra Taylor is a flawed quarterback with a specific set of skills. Yep.

There are worse things you can be right now. I think there are teams that would benefit from Tyra Taylor being their quarterback. And I will not be surprised if some team is very motivated to be one of them this offseason. You can't. Yeah, absolutely. Tyrod Taylor is a top five just Twitter flashpoint where you can't say anything positive about him without 80 Bill's fans getting mad at you. Yes. You can't say anything positive about Derek Carr or Andrew Luck without Seahawks fans getting mad at you.

You can't say anything negative about the Eagles at all. Just don't even talk about them on Twitter. And I think there's some Cowboys, some Cowboys, Some Cowboys Sacred Cows too. But that's that's the grouping for me as far as just you just, you just. just know you're going to get yelled at if you tweet about those things. All right, Danny, let's get the last team here. Carolina, some news kind of broke as we were doing the show. Yeah.

They fired their office coordinator and their quarterback coach. I mean, it seems like that would be the biggest question for the Panthers is what do they do to kind of get the most out of Cam Newton again in 2018 and beyond here. Yeah, that was exactly what I had for my question. It was, well, number one, how does the, what effect does the new ownership have? I don't know if that's going to make a big effect on the actual team or not. we'll have to watch. But yeah, I mean, how do the Panthers, I guess,

surround Newton with more offensive talent or get more out of him as a passer? Because the year was defined, to me, for the Panthers. I mean, their defense was basically the normal, what you'd expect from their defense, very stout, good defense. But the year was defined by Newton's just incredible volatility as a passer. He had nine games this year with the sub-72 pass rating. This is a former MVP that, I mean, nine games. That's over half of the game.

games where you're under 72 as a pass rating, that is terrible. He needs to be, you know, he needs to get more efficient as a passer. And obviously, they turn to him to do the running game, you know, to do the running thing late in the year because basically they had to. You know, he, he's very dangerous as a runner. He changes what the defense has to do. He changes the way that they have to play. And I don't think that's something that should totally go away from their game.

But, I mean, we've talked about this, I think, for like the last three or four off seasons. and Ron Rivera has mentioned it at least like the last three off seasons is they need to get him running less. I mean, he ran, I think, 50-something times over the last five games. He ran 11 plus times in the last four games in the year. And so, yeah, they just need to figure out a way to get his completion percentage up, get him a little more accurate, and I guess just make his life a little bit easier in the passing game. Yeah, I mean, we saw that this year with the personnel moves they tried to make. I mean, I tried to give him easier throws.

It didn't necessarily fit all the time. Their wide receiver position in general is just bizarre. I mean, obviously trading Calvin Benjamin, they didn't feel like they were going to give him a new deal. They don't really have any. I mean, they have Curtis Samuel as an option, but he's such a non-traditional option, which is kind of what Christian McCaffrey is.

It's a very weird combination of offensive players. And whoever is tasked with figuring that out, it's a challenge. I mean, Cam Newton is undeniably talented, but again, he's not a traditional, quarterback in a lot of ways. So what are you going to look for in terms of how he's a very, he's a strong arm. He makes a ton of plays from the pocket, but he's not always accurate.

I mean, there's just so many things you have to take into account with what a Newton-based offense is. And I'll be fascinated by who they eventually decide to hire. To me, what they need to do, and this is maybe too simplistic or whatever, but like, they need to hire somebody that understands how to scheme guys open a little bit more because I think Newton over his career. career has been one of the top, like one of the most frequent, you know, just like tight window throw passers in the NFL, like an incredible amount of his throws going to tight windows.

His guys just can't get separation. I think they just need to figure out a way to scheme guys open more. Obviously, Christian McCaffrey is part of that because he's sort of that, that Joker piece that they use all over the formation to kind of make it easier on him. But, I mean, they need more of that. They need more of those guys that maybe it just means like doing more like, you know, trip sets to one side. and giving him easy reads on, you know, like it just affects the defense when you do that kind of stuff.

Just get the passing game working to his advantage a little bit more. I think right now they have him, you know, making too many really difficult throws. And I think that's probably why they're going away from Shula. And, you know, I bet you that's what they'll be looking for going forward. I totally agree. All right, buddy, thank you very much. We will talk to you again on Friday to preview the divisional round. Appreciate it.

All right. Sounds good. All right, Kevin, very quickly before we get out of it. out of here. Let's offer our lasting impressions from the wildcard round. What's going to stick with you? Yeah, I mean, I just think it's the quarterbacks. And obviously, you know, I wrote in the midseason, I remember this, that there was so much parody in the NFL that I felt like at some point that it was going to come down to what it always comes down to because there's no dominant team. That's basically coach quarterback and, you know, a little bit of roster talent, but mostly coaching quarterback. And I think

we saw that with Atlanta and New Orleans. Those two teams were as impressive of teams I saw last weekend, and both of them are threats to make the NFC championship and the Super Bowl. I think that

because especially since there's no dominant team in the NFC, we're going to see some very weird results, and I know it sounds simplistic and ridiculous, but quarterback matters. It's the most obvious point in the NFL with is a reason for it. And that's why I'm really excited to see what Matt Ryan and Drew Brees can do this weekend. I totally agree. That's exactly what I was going to say.

I just feel like it's going to come down to those guys. It feels like again, I like Minnesota a lot, but having Matt Ryan and Drew Brees is such an advantage. And what Drew Brees was on Sunday, I mean, the idea of him just kind of being able to carry a team to the Super Bowl here is very fun. I mean, the way, when he's playing like that, it's impossible to overstate how dangerous New Orleans is. And with Atlanta, it's just that, again, we kind of have to reset the, you know, all the sliders on what we think they are. But that's still a really good team. I still think they have enough elements to kind of go in and beat anybody. And that's fun.

I mean, it's just another kind of bit of chaos in the NFC. It's why I wanted them to make the playoffs because I felt like they could be that. And we're just set up for another great weekend here. It is two concurrent beliefs that hold. Number one is that it's really fun to see new blood like Case Keenham and the Vikings in the playoffs. That's fun. Having said that, Drew Breeze and Matt Ryan, I'm glad they're back. I feel the exact same way.

All right, buddy, that's it for today. We'll be back on Friday to get everyone set for our favorite weekend of the year. The divisional round is here and it is going to be great. As always, thanks for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. Thanks, guys.