The Ringer NFL Show - Winners and Losers of the 2023 NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 30, 2023

Nora, Steven, and Sheil discuss their winners and losers of the 2023 NFL draft, including what the Patriots’ class means for the future of Mac Jones, the Eagles drafting a trio of Georgia Bulldogs defenders, the Cardinals gaining draft capital for next year, and more. Hosts: Nora Princiotti, Steven Ruiz, and Sheil Kapadia Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at the Ringer, Offguard, hosted by me and my guide Pasha Higigigee. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figure it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league. And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA. Tap into Offguard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

Hello and welcome to the Bringer NFL draft show. I'm Nora Pintziotti, the draft, all three days of it, in the books. And I am so lucky to be here with Stephen Ruiz and Shil Kapagia. Stephen, it's over. How are you feeling in this post-draft glow? I feel great. What are we giving this draft, by the way? Two thumbs up, one thumbs up.

This is a good draft. Two thumbs up. Fully two thumbs up. It was weird. It was chaotic. It's funny for a draft. draft that I think, you know, we did the thing that always happens where everybody's criticizing the draft class and the lead up and going, oh, well, wait till next year. The prospects

are so much better. These prospects suck. I'm going down the list and I like, I like what a lot of teams did. There are a lot of teams that came out, filled some needs, got some interesting players. I'm not always happy, shiny at this moment. And I think there's a lot of teams that can feel good about what they did. Shiel, what do you think about that? I think you're right. You know, for the exercise we're going to do on the show here with winners and losers. The losers generally come very easy to me. I like to, you know, act like I know it all and make fun of some of these teams. But honestly, it was just what you said. I'm like, oh, all right. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, I can see what they were doing here. And it was harder for me to identify the teams that I really

didn't like what they did. So, yeah, I think I guess good job by most teams is one way to frame this year's draft. Wow. Should we just end the podcast now? This is like the nicest we've ever been. Congratulations to everybody. All of these prospects, you know, they're all winners. They're all going to be pro bowlers and Hall of Famers.

Everybody's going to make the playoffs. It's going to be great. Cool. I can call it a day. Just kidding. We are going to do winners and losers because we found it in our hearts to be critical towards a few teams. Let's just kick it off.

We'll start on a positive note. since I think we're all feeling good. Stephen, will you give us a first winner? Now, I was hesitant after today's events because they drafted two kickers, but I'm picking the Patriots. And honestly, I'm picking Bill Belichick. I think it's just a Bill Belichick type of draft.

He gets his long, rangy corner who has man coverage skills. Keon White's a big oversized defensive end with some athleticism. They get Mapu, the linebacker safety hybrid. This is a Bill Belichick draft. And then you get the two specialists. I think he is just having the time of his life right now. So Bill Belichick's my big winner.

The Patriots, I like their draft. I think their defense has a chance to be really good, especially with these two guys they got in White and Gonzalez. I think they could step in right away and fix them some needs for that team, some needs we saw last year. So Patriots. Can I blow up our order one segment into this podcast? Yeah.

I agree with you, Stephen. and I like the draft for Bill. But one of my losers was Mack Jones. Because, like, I'm not here to criticize the Patriots draft. I think Gonzalez might have been, you know, that's one of the top five best picks of round one. Really, really like the Keon White pick as well. What they did defensively, like that's an exciting thing.

They seem like absolutely Belichick picks up and down the board. I'm sure he's super excited. If you are Mack Jones, you've got to be sitting here right now kind of thinking that what this draft class says to you is basically like, okay, you think the coaching was so bad last year? Well, you've got a new offensive coordinator and not a darn thing else.

So let's see how much better you look. I mean, I think it's sort of like a, it's a subtle shock. But one of the shocks of this draft is that the New England Patriots in what was billed as one of the deepest and best tight end classes that we've seen lately didn't take a tight end. They didn't take an offensive player until the fourth round where they took Jake Andrews, the center from Troy.

That's a need. That's something that they're going to have to prepare for, depending on what happens with David Andrews in the future. But I'm a little shocked that they didn't use any higher picks than that to address their offensive needs. And I'm sure that makes Bill Belichick really happy. And I don't think that they're bad picks. They're good players that can help them.

But I don't know that they should consider themselves in a good enough position to not be thinking a little bit more about their needs. And I don't think that they ended up doing that. I think that hurts Mac more than I think it hurts like Bill and the overall team. But if I'm if I'm Mack Jones listening to Bill Belichick, do a. his press conference with New England media and say, Mark's about our quarterback for two years and get a little bit testy about the questions about a potential trade and all of that.

And then I watch what they did with their first few picks, their highest picks in this draft. I'm a little bit like, you're not making it easy for me, man. Yeah, Max's definitely a loser. But I think it's a positive sign that they're not going out of their way to make sure Mac Jones's life is easier. like not are making them look good.

I think there are some teams that would try to salvage what they have after a second year. The first round quarterback doesn't look so hot. I think you kind of double down sometimes and they didn't do that. And I mean, I personally think that they're done with Mack Jones. They reportedly tried to shop them. I think they would have drafted the quarterback if they were able to do that. So I don't know. I think it's a positive step in the right direction for New England, even if it isn't for Matt.

They took a fourth round kicker. Yeah. From Maryland. Good pick. Yeah, they spent, I guess in the sixth round, they took a couple wide receivers there, but those are flyers. We all know those are lottery tickets. Maybe you get something from them. Maybe you don't. I mean, yeah, I do think if we zoom out and look at their offseason, what you're saying, Nora is absolutely right. Like this wasn't, this is sort of an admission that like we think the offense can be a lot better if we just get, if we just fix this dumb coaching situation that we had last year, put in a competent offensive. coordinator. That's going to make us a lot better. I'm not like a hundred percent convinced that that's going to happen. But I mean, look at the personnel. They added juju-Smith Schuster this offseason. That's really the only starter unless you want to consider Riley Reef at right tackle, which is going to be a big question mark if he ends up starting. So they did not make wholesale personnel changes to an offense that was bad last year. And they're saying,

all right, Bill O'Brien's here. We'll be better with that. And to what Stephen started out with, and we'll win with defense and we'll win with special teams and we won't be as dumb because they were a dumb team last year. You know, the coaching jet. They were just a flat out dumb team when you watched them last year, the mistakes they made. So I feel like they're thinking, correct some of those and we'll be. I mean, there's still such a low ceiling team. Like, well, what, best case scenario, 10 wins?

Like if everything goes their way, I don't know. That's kind of my initial impression. I don't know if we're saying that they're a team capable of winning 10 games, if not for some of these additions in the draft. I think, like, Christian Gonzalez raises the ceiling of the defense a little bit more. It was already a good defense last year. But I really do. I think the changes are enough on offense.

Like, not enough to contend, but enough to get back to where they were during Max's rookie year. You replace Matt Patricia. That's going to be a net positive no matter what. I think bringing in juju and then not having Patricia around to keep Kendrick born in the doghouse is another positive. It's basically like you're getting a second receiver. And then I like the flyers they took on day three. That's fair. That's fair.

DeMario Douglas is a good, I guarantee you in preseason, DeMario Douglas is going to be getting hype from fantasy people. He's going to be getting hype. He's going to make like a couple plays in preseason. Oh, yes. And we all know how meaningful that is. Right. I take both of your points, though,

in that I am putting this spin on it that's like, you think the coaching was so bad, well, prove it by having things get better without other more meaningful personnel additions. it might it might be more like everyone's just looking at it and going okay yeah we cost ourselves a lot of points with the the mat patricia joe judge experiment and we're feeling better about what this is going to look like under bill o'brien which i'm sure like that is a professional offensive coordinator they've got there and i'm sure it's going to make a world a difference uh all right i knocked us off track there a little bit but when stephen went patriots i just had to respond um shield do you want to give us your first winner yeah i'll take the low-hanging fruit and I guess the Homer pick here and say that the Eagles are a winner. I mean, I've listened,

there have been drafts and off-seasons before where I've crushed them for what they've done, but to be coming off of a Super Bowl and then to add Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith, Kili Ringo, like they added guys who can help them right away. I mean, they lost a lot of players on defense in

free agency. And their class is going to be defined by whether Jalen Carter becomes like one of the top five defensive tackles in the NFL. or whether he's out of the league by the end of his rookie contract. I mean, listen, there are a wide range of outcomes with Jalen Carter. I think we talked about it last week. I loved his film more than any other player in this draft class.

I see the upside. I think he's going to be able to play right away. And so just stuff kind of fell in their lap a little bit in this draft. And then they make the trade for D'Andre Swift. I thought their running back room was very iffy going into the draft. I wasn't going to be surprised if they spent a. day two pick on a running back. Instead, they make a trade. They pick up DeAndre Swift. And so I like how they built that because now it's like, well, if Rashad Penny stays healthy, there's upside there.

If DeAndre Swift is healthy and fits, there's upside there. Like not all those things are going to work together where everyone's healthy. You're going to have injuries. But I feel like the roster is in better shape than I thought it was going to be at the start of free agency when I was like, they're going to lose a lot of guys and like it's just not going to look the same next year. Now you look around and you're like, man, if they can get some roe, you know, if they can get some roe, from last year to make that second year leap and then get some of these rookies to contribute. They're in good shape once again in the NFC. It feels like in the blink of an eye, they got so much younger defensively.

And I mean, I guess they did because they used high premium draft capital on young, potentially impactful defensive players like they so often do. But it is, it's always sort of humbling when a contender can seem like they're restocking in a way that's, that's really meaningful. He just makes it look so easy. I mean, the Lions got a fourth rounder in 2025 and then a seventh rounder this year.

And they swapped seventh rounders this year, I guess, in the Swift trade. I mean, that's 2025. We could all be dead by that. Like, he just makes it look so simple. So, you know, Howie Roseman crushing the draft. What else is new?

Stephen, what did you think about the Eagles? They're really good at doing the thing where they draft someone that we've all heard of. And that's the easy way to become a draft way. They just do it every time. It's a common sense approach. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes you draft Andre Dillard in the first round. But other times you get good value.

And I think this is a draft that gives them a chance to get a lot of good value across the board. And like she'll said, like going into the off season, I thought this was going to be a bad off season for them. I think at this point, you have to say it was a good offseason for them, a potentially very good offseason. I think their running back room is way better than it was a year ago. I mean, there's some like, you need Swift to stay healthy. You need Penny to stay healthy. Both of those guys have had problems doing that. But if those guys are healthy, that's another layer to this offense that you didn't have to worry about last year.

And if everything works out, this team might be even better than last year, which is crazy to think because of how good they were. I mean, their running game seems like it has a real, real chance to be better than it was last year, which is equally sort of crazy to think about. Yeah, I think those backs have more upside than Miles Sanders if they're able to stay on the field. And to Stephen's point, Howie hasn't always done this. I mean, he has a long draft history and there have been hits and misses and there have been years where you go, wait, what did they just do? It really feels like since that collapse in 2020, the last few years here, it's just been like,

let's not outsmart ourselves. Let's not rely on one thing. Let's trust our scouts. Like if these are the best players from the best programs and our scouts like them and our coaches like them, let's just go ahead and pick them and not to worry about too many other things. So I actually feel like they've, like you said, Stephen, it's almost a simplified approach. Like if you look at the, you know, the draft consensus boards that are out there like

Arifasana as one, I always like looking at those, not that they're perfect. You know, the NFL knows more than the public knows. But if you just kind of look at it. at that. I mean, you know, Jalen Carter, the number three player, they get him at nine. Nolan Smith, the number 18 player, they get him at 30. Keeley Ringo, the number 38 player, they get him at 105. And so it's just like, these guys were good in college. Let's not worry too much about the projection. Let's, let's trust our coaches to coach him up and trust our locker room to make sure everyone's good from kind of a character, makeup perspective, and go from there. So, yeah,

I think it worked out better than Eagles fans could have envisioned when the season, offseason started. Can I say one thing that I've just like absolutely no business speculating on? Sure. Yeah. That's what we're here for, honestly. I've heard a lot of, it seems like a big talking point about Jalen Carter, who's a fabulous player, but who comes with some concerns as a player, has to do with the number of Georgia

players on the team. there's going to be such a support system and it's not up to them. It's the responsibility of the team. But it's great that he's going to know all of those guys and that's going to be really meaningful as they try to make sure that, you know, his story turns out well in Philadelphia. And look, who knows, right? Lots of people who have major screwups in their lives is when they're really young end up being great, wonderful, productive citizens and this could all be awesome. I'm not sure we should take it as an automatic bonus that all of those Georgia guys are there as far as that goes.

That is where he had problems. I don't get that one-to-one. That's not my predicting anything. Certainly I know very little about this situation relative to Jalen himself relative to the Eagles. I just raised my eyebrows a little bit when it's like, well, all of the Georgia players who he knows will make this work out well,

which doesn't really make sense. I think that's a good point. I think we tend to try to connect those dots when we're explaining graphics. And we like that is a perfect example. Like you said, those guys were there. That was the environment he was in when he made the mistakes. I don't think it's going to make any difference.

It's going to be up to him. It's going to be up to whatever help the Eagles get them. I think the Eagles will try to provide him with help. But that's what it comes down to. It doesn't matter if N' Kobe Dean's like two lockers down from him. If he's going to make a mistake, he's going to make a mistake either way. Well, and sometimes a fresh start is sort of meaningful, right? Yeah.

And if you're around the people who know you in one way and one environment, maybe it's harder to change. I think the only thing we really can say here is we don't know. But yes, it does seem a little bit weird to be like, Nicopi Dean can solve this because that is not his job. But hopefully it'll all be fine. Yeah, Howie Roseman said, what you made your point actually nor i think he was asked about and he's like well i mean he didn't

say it in those exact terms but he was basically like it's going to be up to jel and carter like those guys have enough to worry about i mean nicoby dean didn't get on the field last year jordan davis didn't do anything for the eagles uh last year like you see all the uh you know georgia stuff going around it's like did anyone notice that the two georgia guys they drafted last year did absolutely nothing uh in their rookie season so they need those guys to step up too so they've got a lot to worry about. And even Kili Ringo, like they draft Kili Ringo. He was obviously on that Georgia team, but some of the reporting, I don't know if it was Albert Breer or I forget who was saying. It was that there were some character makeup issues were part of the reason why he fell. So yeah,

you know, you can think some of those guys are great guys. And Nicopi Dean and Nolan Smith, especially by all accounts, are like these sort of, you know, these leaders, these guys you want in the locker room. But in the end, it's up to the individual and the decisions he makes and the path he goes down. So I think that absolutely is a good point. I think that George, that point about like Georgia players for the Eagles, they haven't really hit yet. So there's not like proof of concept that it's going to work out is a good point. And it like explains the flaw in naming draft winners like right after it happens. Because like I said, we just do it based on the people we've heard of. And no one knows if this is going to work out. Or if this strategy is sound of just

drafting a bunch of Georgia players. It makes sense on paper. But so far it hasn't it. We haven't seen any results from it yet. So I still think the jury's out. I think we could say right now that they're winners, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we're going to look back at this draft and be like, whoa, you remember what the Eagles did? That was a historic class because usually it doesn't work out that way. Usually we're wrong. Yeah, especially when we look at, especially, it goes every year when we see a guy slipping and we all say it was a steal. It's like, you know, we always have to operate under the NFL teams. I never want to give NFL teams the benefit of the doubt, but for the draft, they have more information than we have.

And so, like, I liked, you know, Nolan Smith. I liked Jalen Carter a lot. The Seattle Seahawks who generally are willing to choose talent over any other issues at number five and could have used a player like Jalen Carter, rather, they went with Devon Wetherspoon. So you got to keep that stuff in mind. You know, Nolan Smith, the Jets went with Will McDonald over like other teams win other avenues and he fell to 30. So I think it's always good to kind of keep those things in.

mind. All right. I'll close this out for the first round of winners. I had the wide receivers. I had the first round wide receivers. And I think this was considered, you know, a not so great receiver class. And in a lot of ways that held out. There were four taken in the first round. You got to go back to the 2019 year with Hollywood Brown and Nikiel Harry, where fewer than five got taken. I think there were six in the first round last year. Add in the fact that, you know, of those four, nobody went before pick 20. Relative to recently past draft classes, that is the NFL valuing these guys less than than some recent years.

But to Stephen's point that we got to remember that we may think back differently on some of these things in a few years, I do think there's a decent chance that we end up seeing this wide receiver class favorably, just because I really like all the fits. starting at 20 with Jackson Smith and Jigba to the Seahawks. We talked about that on Thursday, but just a perfect fit. Incredible route runner. Awesome over the middle. Amazing short and intermediate stuff.

It's going to be great with Gino, great with Shane Waldron. Fits in really well with D.K. Metcalf on the outside. You can have Tyler Lockett as the Z use the speed, play a little inside out. And JSN can take some of the more physical stuff over the middle. 21 Chargers, Quentin Johnson, big playmaker for Justin Herbert. If there was one of these that I quibbled with a little bit, it would be this pick,

not because I don't like Johnson in L.A., but just because I felt like the one thing they needed more than anything was speed. But they did take another TCU receiver, Darius Davis in the fourth round, who, look, I'm not going to tell you that a fourth rounder, he's 5-8-165. I'm not going to say that like this guy is going to change the Chargers offense, but Darius runs a four three.

So I'm going to give a little bit of credit for at least understanding the assignment there. And I like what they did at receiver overall. Say Flowers to the Ravens. We've talked about no notes. Can't wait to see this offense. Flowers, I think, can be really explosive with Lamar. And then Jordan Addison to the Vikings is awesome. He's so quick.

He's so sudden. He gets open so fast. I am a little nervous to say this, but I actually think that between him and Justin Jefferson, Kirk might not actually be able to find it in himself to check down. Like, he might actually be forced to not do that. But I love that.

They'll find a way. I'm sure. I'm sure. But it's getting harder. It's getting harder, especially because, you know, Justin Jefferson takes so many double teams. So Jordan Addison's going to be single and he gets open. So he's like, I think that's going to be an awesome, awesome fit. That was everyone who went in the first round. I'm sure some are going to hit better than others.

That's how it always works. Probably a couple of those guys will have health issues. Like, who knows? But right now, I just, I don't know. I have a little bit of a feeling that we will end up looking back at this class as better than, better than prognosticated just because I think everybody landed in a decent spot. What do you think, Stephen? Yeah, that was definitely the case in 2019, the draft we referenced.

Like, we got D.K. Metcalf, we got A.J. Brown on the second day, Hollywood Brown has been a good player. I really like the fact that teams didn't reach for any of these receivers either. I don't, I didn't feel like any of these were real reaches, especially in the first round. Zay Flowers is my favorite fit. The more I think about it, the more I like that pick. I just think he fits in so well with what they've added to that receiving court. And I think he's a Hollywood Brown replacement, which they really hadn't done. They didn't have that guy that could threaten defenses deep. And that's such a key thing to have because it's a deterrent from loading the box up against Lamar.

And if you can do that, then that makes the run game a little easier to defend. And if you don't have dudes on the outside, you just have pawns instead of like queens and rooks and stuff. It's hard to craft an offense out of that. Now I think the Ravens, we talked about it on Thursday, but I want to read. iterated. This offense is like in a good spot right now, a good spot. The best spot it's been since Lamar's gotten there. And I include 2019 in there. Super Bowl. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't think there, they'll be as good, obviously, as 2019. But when you just look at the supporting cast and the change at offensive coordinator, which, you know, it's for a while in the offseason. It went under

the radar. That's what everyone had been begging for for the last couple of years. They make the change. They get an exciting offensive coordinator in Todd Munkin, but then no one knew if Lamar was actually going to be there. So yeah, between Zay Flowers, Odell Beckham Jr., Rashad Bateman, Mark Andrews, I mean, guys have to stay healthy, but J.K. Dobbin is another year removed and should be healthy, and the run game's always going to

be good with Lamar. So it's a much different feeling, or should be a much different feeling, if you're a Ravens fan now, then compare this to like, what, 10 days ago, two weeks ago, it's night and day. So, yeah, now all of a sudden, they could be a fun team once again. they completely flipped their vibe.

It's, it's, it's really impressive a week ago. This was like, yikes. Everything seems great in Ravensland. It's, it's a job well done. Shield, did you have a favorite receiver fit in the first round? Yeah, I think Jackson Smith and Jigba is the one where I'm just, like, I liked him the best and I like that fit the best. And, and Gino, you know, we talked about Lamar's in a good spot. Gino's in a great spot there.

They don't draft a quarterback. They have two second year tackles who theoretically should be better. They have DK.K. Metcalfe, Tyler Lockett, and Jackson Smith and Jigba. I mean, I don't want to go full that they're a big sleeper in the NFC just yet. I'll save those takes for late July, August, and see where I settle. But, yeah, that was the one that I was just like, man, I think he's going to be a fantastic fit there and a fantastic player for them for years to come. Also, can you be a sleeper in the NFC this year? Like, if you're a sleeper in this year's NFC,

see you're basically dead. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. All right. Should we do a round of losers? Yeah. Let's do it. Steven, you want to kick us off?

Yeah, speaking of the vibes, totally shifting from 10 days ago, I'd say in Detroit, that's where we're at. And I know they had a bounce back, a bit of a bounce back day on day two, getting Brian Branch, who I thought was like the saving grace of the class. I wasn't a big fan of LaForda that I thought they reached a little on the tight end. but it just seems like this was a draft where they're like, yes, we are fully committed to being like a Dan Campbell-style football team. And I just think there's a ceiling on that. I think there's a ceiling on drafting players where they draft them, like drafting a running back in the first round,

drafting an off-ball linebacker in the first round, a tight end and a safety on day two. All four of those guys, like those are positions that you don't want to overpay for. So even if they hit and you give them a big second contract, that's not necessarily a good value. it's really hard to see our envision this draft being one that we look back at and we're like, oh, that changed the direction of the franchise. And I really think like Detroit doesn't have where they're at in their rebuild, if you can even call that, I think they're out of the rebuild at this point. I don't think they're going to be drafting with this capital again.

Like the Matthew Stafford Capital is done now. You're going to be winning more games presumably. So you're going to be drafting at the bottom of rounds. Like this was the draft where you could get some more premium players to add to the roster. I don't even think they gave them a chance to do. that because like if Gibbs hits, if Jemir Gibbs hits, like what, what is that? You get three good years of running back play and then you're not going to pay them after that, hopefully. So I, Detroit, I really think they had a bad draft. I get that they were sticking to their board and

they have their convictions about these players and the type of players they want. But I really think they've blocked themselves into a ceiling that isn't where they're going to want to be in two years. I think they're going to want to be competing for Super Bowls and I just don't see it with this roster at this point. Yeah, I mean, also, like, every team loves to say that they stick to their board and they trust their board. Their board is influenced by what they think other teams are going to do or they use that information.

And teams love to pretend that they don't when they reach on players. But even if some of the picks are okay, it's overall bad problems. if you're taking guys who you could probably get with your later picks, who nobody else is going to take. And overall, okay, if you don't do that, maybe you miss out on somebody. But like, you're not willing to see if Jack Campbell sticks around to try to get someone who's got a little bit more juice. Like, I, I don't want to keep hammering them for the same thing, like, because we certainly did on Thursday. But it's not, it's just not good strategy. love that they got Brian Branch.

I think it's smart for them to pick up a pick up a quarterback and they were able to get Henn and Hooker in the third round. That's at that point, that's good value. But in general, yeah, it's the positional value and then even just the individual players,

both with Gibbs and Campbell. I'm not sure either one of those is a consistent three-down player. It's not just the positions they play. I'm not sure they're going to be able to, even if they hit, right? Like even if they're NFL ready immediately and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, the roles those guys are going to be in,

I don't know that you're getting, you know, Gibbs is pretty iffy in pass protection. Like, I don't, you're not going to be able to have them on the field enough to justify the pick in addition to the concerns about the positions they play, not justifying the pick given how high they were. So it's all the nerd stuff. I get it. But it's not a good way to play.

the team. Even the hooker pick. Like, I think it is good value to get a quarterback there, but I just don't like the fit at all. He has so much to learn in that offense. Like, you're going to an under center offense, a pro style offense from what he came from at Tennessee. He's already behind the eight ball in terms of age. He's got the ACL injury still coming back from. He's not going to play behind Jared. Like, Jared Goff is going to play. I don't see that pick even working out for them. And then they reached on day three. I think it was, yeah, it was today. They reached on a William and Mary tackle who, like, wasn't even on the consensus big board. It was another example of them reaching for a guy that fits into Dan Campbell's system.

It's a, the tackle is a nasty run blocker. Stop me if you've heard that before. So I think it's another example of what they did on day one. When they went into the draft, you know, like you said, six and 18, you're thinking, this was probably about the fourth best team in the NFC at the end of last year. Man, you add somebody at six and 18. like they were it's exactly what you said steven the opinion like we could be talking right now about how watch out for the lions man they just got these two difference making and i'm not going

to go through and say well it would have been this guy and this guy because we all know there's uncertainty in the draft and i don't even hate these players like jimir gig right gibbs jack campbell sam leporter i'm brian branch hendon hooker in the third like i think those are fine players but it's just like it it feels it leaves me wanting more to what you were saying norah the idea of reading the draft board. And that is a huge part of the draft. I mean, we just talked about the Eagles. They were thinking, how high do we have to trade up to get Jalen Carter?

Like, that is a strength of Howie Rosebin, kind of knowing how the board is going to fall? How far do we have to move to get the player? Should we move back? Will the player still be there? You have to read those things. And I mean, Jemir Gibbs is not, you know, a Belkeau back, even. He hasn't been a Belkechow back. He's a fun player.

He'll probably be fun to watch in their offense next year. But to your point, in three years from now, When we say, did they maximize the value, the upside of the picks they had in the first round, the answer is probably going to be no there. So it just feels like a missed opportunity when you zoom out and look at what they had in terms of draft capital going in and the players they ended up with. Shill you want to keep us going with another loser? Yeah, I'm debating between two losers here. Let's go with the Houston Texans.

Might surprise some. You say, what are you talking about? They got C.J. Stroud and Will Anderson. C.J. Stroud, I'm fine with. I think that that, like, Will Anderson trade, and I like Will Anderson a lot. I think he's going to be really good. But I think that trade has a chance to go down as one that we're talking about for years to come in terms of what they gave up. And let me explain what I mean.

They gave up 12, 33, a 2024 first and a 2024 third for Will Anderson and a fourth round pick. Like, just how many. non-quarterbacks in the NFL would be worth just that draft capital. Like, you can name the best players in the NFL and teams to give up, to give that up would probably be like, uh, you know, I don't know, hesitant. And so now you add the uncertainty of the draft in here. And we all like Will Anderson probably. A lot of people like Will Anderson. But, uh, the number one rule of my, the off season for me is don't fall in love. There should be no player where you're like, I have to have him. We will do whatever it takes to get him, whether it's trade, free agency, the draft or

whatever. And I just feel like they fell in love with Will Anderson. They probably at some point we're like, we'll just stay at two and take him. And then they're like, no, can we really come out of this without a quarterback? And then they panic a little bit and say, we'll take the quarterback. And then we'll go back up and get Will Anderson. And everyone's happy. You know who's not going to be happy? The Texans next year, because they gave up their future first and they're going to be one the worst teams in the NFL in 2023. I mean, I was just looking at like over under wind totals. they're at five and a half that's tied for the lowest of any team in the NFL. You know who's coming out of college next year?

And I know, again, we say this every year, Caleb Williams. You know what's the closest thing to Patrick Mahomes we've seen in college football? Caleb Williams. And you just gave away your 2024 first round pick. Like, that's going to be so valuable. Even if you loved C.J. Stroud, if you had the first pick in the draft next year, you know what you could get for the first pick in the draft next year? Amazing.

Or if C.J. Stroud says, he's okay, rookie year, guess what? You have a Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray situation. You can move on from C.J. Stroud and take this guy who it feels like is as sure of a thing as we've seen in the league in a long time. So I like Strout. I like Will Anderson. I like D'Amico Ryans. But I have a lot of questions about how that organization makes decisions. And I think this time next year, we're just going to be going, I can't believe the Texans gave up their first round pick. in 2024. So that's why I have them as a loser. Can I defend the trade? I don't think it was a good trade, but let me try to like spin it. Stephen, Stephen fell in love. What a sucker. I think you could make the argument that the trade was for C.J. Straub. Like, they could have taken Will Anderson. And then if we're talking about a trade up for a quarterback, we wouldn't be complaining. Like, it doesn't really matter what order the picks were in. They traded up so they could draft CJ Stroud and Will Anderson. They didn't trade up to draft Will Anderson, in my opinion. That's the one way I would spin it if I'm the Texans. Now, if Stroud becomes a great player, then we don't, I don't think

we'll care about the trade. But there was also multiple choice. See, just take Stroud and chill the freak out and go pick at 12. That's a good point. Yeah. But I hear what you're saying. If it was for a quarterback, then you, then you can always justify it because the upside is that high. But it's like they didn't, it, I, that's not what it was. They had the quarterback in pocket. And then, you know, you make the move for Will Anderson, although I hear what you're saying. the other thing is I normally would agree, but I'm not sure we won't remember this if the Texans are really, really bad. Because if what they sent away ends up a really high pick and God forbid the number one overall pick next year, I think we're going to talk constantly about what a mistake this was.

I don't care if C.J. Stroud is the next Tom Brady. Like, we're going to talk about it all the time. I don't know. I feel like if Stroud is good, we're not even thinking about it. I really don't think we're thinking. I personally would not have traded up for C.J. Stroud, I don't think he's the type of player that you make that move up the board for. But let's just say he becomes a franchise quarterback.

I really don't think we're talking about this next year. And especially Will Anderson is good too. Will Anderson is good to, which I think he's going to be. And C.J. Stroud is what people think he's going to be. Not necessarily me. But if that happens, I really don't. think we're talking about this trade ever again. Like that was a smart trade that got two

franchise players. The wide receivers on this team are Nico Collins, Noah Brown, John Metcci, Amari Roger, like Robert Woods. CJ Stroud could be a very good prospect and get very good coaching. And everything that we know about football means that tells us that the ceiling of this team

is pretty low. It's low enough given the state of this roster that we're probably not next year going to be looking at that pick and looking at this team and looking at CJ Stroud and being like, oh my gosh, they got the best quarterback like, what a win. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be a bad pick, but their roster is just not in a place where they're going to be a super competitive team barring CJ Stroud turning out to be like the second coming of whatever. So we're probably going to have those muted views of.

how successful what they did this year was. And if they end up costing themselves something really, really significant, which because of the aforementioned roster concerns, they probably will, I just, I, I don't, I don't feel great about it. If we find out at some point that this was basically the product of Tomiko Ryan's being like, look, I'm happy to have my long term commitment to be the coach here. but I don't know if you saw my the defensive line that I was working with

and I don't know if you're seeing what's going on here I want Will Anderson and you're going to make that happen for me like fine but it it again is just like who's driving the bus here and why are we behaving this way you do need like those blue chip like it's a good point that you need that defensive line to run that style of defense like that is something that has been proven throughout the history of that defense being run.

If you're going to play a lot of zone coverage, you need a pass rush. So I think that was, they saw Will Anderson as a blue chip prospect, maybe the best player in the draft. So that's, that's my only, that's my defense.

I'm not saying it was a good draft. I'm not saying it was a good trade. That's my defense. I can rationalize it. Yeah, I like Anderson. And, but what you said earlier, like you're like they might get to,

you know, like whatever, a Hall of Fame plan, that's kind of the bar. Like he has to, if he turns into T.J. Watt and C.J. Stroud is a franchise quarterback.

then that is the scenario where maybe we're not talking about that. But then to Norris' point, we might still be talking about it because guess what? The rest of the roster sucks. So it's like you could have had CJ Strah. You could have sat there at 12. You could have traded back with the Steelers. And you could have still got Christian Gonzalez, a blue chip cornerback to pair with Derek Stingley. You would still have your 30 third pick.

You would still have your first round and your third round pick next year. Like you're not going anywhere next year. Like this is early as we're talking about 2020. So we'll see. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. And again, let me emphasize for the 50th time. I love, I think Will Anderson is going to be awesome. I mean, his resume is as I thought any knocks on him were ridiculous. I think he's going to be a great player. But my goodness, I think I have questions about the process. And I think they're going to be regretting that trade in a big, big way. We can all be happy that they won't get a chance to ruin Caleb Williams. Let's all be happy. That's Jaylor Williams won't be going to the Texans, which is a win for the league. I like that spin. Yeah, that's a positive. winner Caleb Williams

I gave my first loser with the Mac Jones thing so let's loop background and be nice to people again Steven winner number two I'm gonna go with Arizona the team that traded with Houston

and it's not necessarily about the class they're bringing in I like Paris Johnson I like OJolari I think Garrett Williams could be a really good value he's coming off a torn ACL he's got some talent but they picked up six picks

in the first two days of next year's draft possibly six top 100 players. Two of them are from the Texans too. So these can be like top 75. Yeah, how'd they do that, Stephen? No comment. But it was a great, it was a good, it was a good draft for them. They didn't make a lot of picks, which is probably a good thing because I don't,

I don't trust this front office to make picks unless Kyler Murray's behind it. But that much draft capital, they're going to be winners next year, no matter what they do. They're going to be winners next year. And they set themselves up for that this year by fleecing the Texans, maybe. dog in the in the draft room too which i really liked i think it was michael bidwell's dog well hopefully the dog doesn't have to pay for his own food uh hopefully uh you know they take care of him uh in that way uh well this that that actually leads to my uh louis if we're having a cardinals conversation this leads to my loser my loser is not the cardinals i think my loser is anyone who owns the

Kyler Murray Cardinals jersey because of what Stephen just said. I mean, I don't know how many more games Kyler Murray is starting for the Arizona Cardinals. To Stevens point, they trade for the Texans 24 first round pick. You know how I told you that the Texans over under was five and a half wins for this year and that was tied for the lowest in the NFL? It was tied with the Arizona Cardinals. They have two huge bites at the apple here to land a franchise quarterback in 2024. And I think they we're smart to exactly what you said to stock up next year. They still got a left tackle. You still got a premium position in the first round, but you got these picks for next year. And so I feel like they are in a great spot if they're thinking like big time rebuild here, which they should be

thinking that way. And I think they are thinking that way. Like I think they're going to be in the driver's seat in next year's draft. And it's hard for me sitting here on April 29th to think that if they get the first or second pick, they'll be like we still love Kyler Murray, given the whole contract and the homework and all that in the new regime. We love Kyler Murray. We're loyal to him. We're going to pass on Caleb Williams and maybe Drake May next year. Like that seems like an unlikely scenario for 2024. So then all the, you know, the dominoes get going and it's like, well, where is Kyler Murray going to be playing in 2024? And we get to have a lot of content and a lot of fun thinking about where he could be traded next season.

But yeah, that thought crossed my mind when I'm like, wait, they have their own first round pick and the Texans first round pick in 2024. Kyler, depending on when he comes back from injury this year, could be kind of playing his last games as a Cardinal. And let's say the Cardinals and Texans are the two worst teams in the league next year. And they get that number one pick. And they're able to shop that second pick. And it's Drake May is what the teams are going to be trading.

for it, they're going to replenish their draft capital in one move. And then if they do trade Kyler Murray, which is feasible next year, they would save $5.6 million if they trade them. They would have to take a $46 million dead cap hit. But that's doable, especially where they're at. They're not going to need cap space. They don't have a good roster. They don't have players to sign. So like, I think they're just in the perfect spot now. And I would, if I'm them, I don't even hesitate to move on from Kyler because that's more draft capital coming back. Because Kyler's going to fetch a pretty good haul. This team is set up to be drafting at the top of the draft for like the next three years

maybe. Yeah, I agree. Tyler making the picks. Our guy. That's the problem. He can still be the GM while he's like the quarterback of another team. Let me be clear. I don't trust the Cardinals to not screw this up.

I think they're a bit of a train wreck of an organization from the top down. And I don't and I don't trust there. I don't know that Jonathan Gannon is going to be a. great coach for them either. However, they are, the GM did a good job, Monty Austin Ford, other than calling Gannon and tampering and losing a pick. If you're just looking at what he did in these

three days in the draft, I do think he did a good job and it's kind of a promising start where they realize this isn't going to be a quick fix. Let's make moves to set ourselves up and they are set up for that now. Did we ever totally figure out what happened there with the tampering thing? He just

he called Gannon too early on his he called him on his cell phone. He called Gannon after the NFC championship game where you're not allowed to contact candidates. Now they said it was self-reported. I have a strong, you know, I don't think phone calls go into that building without Howard Roseman knowing who's calling.

So I don't know, Howie Rose, he can be a bit of a bulldog and he likes his draft capital. And I don't know if he was the one who was like, listen, we're getting a pick out of you one way or the other. But, but, yeah, as Solex said, imagine. tampering for Jonathan Gannon. I'll leave it at that. I didn't have a high opinion of Jonathan Gannon, but it's it's kind of gone downhill. The videos, I just got to say the clips I've seen of him, the vibes are all.

That's all I'll leave it at. The vibes are all. He's too excited. Pew, pew, yeah, there's that, that one that has gone around when he's talking, who is he talking to a wide receiver about plays downfield? And he just went up to him and goes, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, like we're going to be, like, yeah. I kind of like that one, because it gives me some material. to work with on Fox. It's like if Kendall Roy didn't grow up rich.

Like that's what he is. He's like a succession character who doesn't have money. We will see. I imagine he's doing pretty well for himself as an NFL head coach. But given what we've learned about the frugality of the Cardinals organization lately, maybe not. Gannon is funny. Gannon's good for some.

They would be a good. It's good for content. We know who's on our Knox yet? No, not yet. they just did a whole thing so it's probably not that but like it seems like it's not going over very well with you guys but I'm in favor

of more Jonathan Gannon content he's in he's in the run for this year's Nathaniel this year's Nathaniel Hackett now that should be award like the NBA announced all those new awards this year I would be in favor of that Nathaniel Hackett award

for reputational damage Stephen, that's a column. I try not to give people column ideas, but I would absolutely read that, yes. The Ruizus. Although I do have to say, Nick Siriani would have won the award,

and that's worked out well for Philadelphia. So there you go. You never know. It's early. Yeah. All right. I have no laugh. I was laughing too hard,

and now I have absolutely no idea where on this podcast we are. Do I owe you guys a winner? Yeah. Is that what's happening? All right. I always count on you, Stephen. I have the Colts. I thought the Colts had an awesome draft.

Maybe the draft that I like the most out of anyone. Don't hold me to that. But like the Colts, they had maybe the most exciting pick of the whole thing in Anthony Richardson. That we talked about a ton after night one. But still, awesome. They're clearly pumped. Jim Mersey is going around telling everyone who will listen that they would have taken him

at number one if they'd had the pick, which cool. you go big dog i don't know what like they didn't so but that's great that they like him that much i like him a lot so i think that's a great pick um but they did a few other things later on in the draft that i think are really cool and really interesting uh just reshaping their roster in ways that make a lot of sense they got considerably bigger and more physical at the corner positions. So they took Julius Brent from Kansas State in the second round, number 44. He seems like he could be a real potential replacement for Steph Gilmore. It's just big, fast, athletic. They took three corners. They're all like 6-2, 6-3, 200 pounds. They took Darius

in the 5th and Jalen Jones in the 7th. And that makes total sense to me that they would want to get big press guys at corner, rethink those roles in Gus Bradley's defense. do it a little bit more in the Legion of Boom style. So I like those picks and I just like the idea behind it that they want guys who can can press and be physical in those roles. At wide receiver, they also seem to do a little bit of a change in prototyping. They got Josh Downs in the third round who's a different type of, different body type for them. smaller, not the fastest, but he's not like the Michael Pittman's, the sort of like big

plotting guys that they've often gone after. And I think we're seeing the Stuyken influence in how they want to build the team, which to me, because I haven't always agreed with some of Chris Ballard's preferences, particularly at receiver, I think that's really, really good to see. They apparently loved downs. I think Ballard said they were trying to trade up for him for a few picks and then he just fell to them. So that's great. And Reggie Wayne apparently is like obsessed with him. So all sorts of good vibes there.

They also got Evan Hull in the fifth round, who's a pass catching running back from Northwestern. And Downs and Hull share something in common, which is that they both have just really, really, really good hands, which I think as they try to bring Anthony Richardson along and coach him up in those short and intermediate areas where his accuracy has been a question mark. Having those guys who are great contested catch guys,

low, low drop rate guys running those routes and working in that part of the field, that's a big win. And then they took Will Mallory from Florida, tight end in the fifth round, which I think was just like, look, this is a deep tight end class. Who knows?

But I like what they did in adding to who they have. for Richardson to catch Richardson's passes. And then the last thing that they did that I thought was great was just get athletes, pretty much across the board. Blake Freeland, BYU, YU tackle, super, super athletic. Richardson, obviously, Brent's is super athletic, down's is super athletic, like every, basically every pick, if you look up the like RAS score, which is out of 10,

of their sort of like high value picks, down scored an 8.9 out of 10 and that's like the lowest. So that's a thing that I always think is a good idea is just like get athletes in the draft. I'm not trying to tell you that like the fourth and fifth and sixth rounders are going to go be impact players right away or even at all. But the strategy just feels really sound and I think they got a lot of. really interesting players who are good fits. And there weren't a lot of reaches. I think that's the best way to have a good draft is not to reach.

And I think Chris Ballard has kind of, maybe he thinks too highly of himself as a scout and he has reached in the past on some guys, but I don't think that was the case here. And it's a big class, 12 players, 12 picks, a bunch of traits. Like, some of these guys are going to work out. And I think we're going to look back at this as a good class. No, but like they threw a lot of darts at the dark board. one of them is going to hit a bull's eye or a couple of them. And then they get the best quarterback in the class, in my opinion.

They didn't have to reach for him. They didn't have to trade any picks for them. They kept their whole class. It was a really good draft for them. It could have been ruined, though. Did you see the tweet before day two when Ersei was like, what do you guys think about drafting Will Levis doing a Steve Young, Joe Montana? Then he said that if Richardson had been off the board, they were going to draft Will Levis,

which I don't know. Maybe he's just being nice to Will Levis. but that also seems like something that they would have considered doing. So good job, Colts. It all worked out. It could have been worse. It was really great. Good job.

Yeah, it's like if you had somebody with no like background and didn't even know what this was and you were just like draft for volume and draft athletes, like you probably would end up in the middle tier of NFL teams drafting most of years. You know, like you said, that's the thing. You make 12, the more picks you make, the more chances you have. to hit on people. And I always prefer, not that it always works out, just drafting the best athletes, but it's like a lot of football is one-on-one situations and you can screw something up. Can you make up for it? You're going to make mistakes. And so I like that too. And then just the fit of Richard said,

I like that he's with the coordinator who's not going to put him in like a traditional box. And it's like, hey, let's go spread, put you in shotgun, quarterback run game. We'll gradually add to that in the playbook. But that theoretically should give your offense like a higher floor than some of these other quarterbacks when you're just like, hey, our run game should be top five next year because our quarterback's going to be a factor that's going to be hard to account for. We have Jonathan Taylor. And then if you get like average offensive line play, that's usually a recipe for a top five run game. And then you figure out the past game stuff after that.

So I think if you're a Colts fan, this, yeah, this, you're probably like, our life stink. This is terrible. What is going on? Our owner is volatile and unpredictable. And now at the end of the weekend, all right, take a deep breath. It worked out pretty well for you. you all things considered. Oh, poor Colts fans with their, their decade long of the league quarterback played, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck for them. My team drafted a 5-10 quarterback

who weighs 190 pounds. He's going to be, he's going to be great, Bryce Young. I mean, he's going to be fantastic. You should be happy too. I know you love Richardson. Bryce Young's going to be awesome. I just needed to go on the record saying that. I think he's going to be good. I think he's going to be good. Steven's going through it. We're back around to the losers, right? I snuck in my other

loser because I built up you snuck in another loser. So do you owe us a winner then, Sheel? I owe you another winner, yes. Do you want me to give you my winner now? Yeah, let's do it. I was debating between two teams. I'm trying to think of which one I want to go with. You know what? I'll

go with the New York football giants. How about that? I haven't loved what they've done this offseason with the stuff they face, but they got Stevens boy. I don't know if he's your boy, but I know you're a turp. So Deontay Banks, I really liked his film going into the draft. I thought, well, he's got all the athletic traits. He's six foot. He can play press, play man. We know Wink Martindale wants to do that. I thought he was sticky in coverage. I thought that was a fantastic pick in the first round. They take the center, John Michael Schmitz, who I'm not going to tell you. I was grinding his film, but the O-line film grinders all seem to really like this guy,

and they need O-Line help. And so now you have a center who theoretically can come in and give you an upgrade there. And then I know Jalen Hyatt, the wide receiver was kind of a polarizing prospect. I really liked him. I mean, I'm always in favor of just get the guy who can create explosive plays downfield. I don't care a lot about the other stuff. So he ran 4-4 at the combine. He had over 1,200 yards last year, averaged 18.9.

yards per reception, 20 catches of 20 plus yards last year. I know the Giants didn't throw down field a lot last year. It was like a different version of Daniel Jones than we had seen previously, but part of that is personnel driven. And so even when the Giants were exceeding expectations last year, a lot of weeks to just look at what they had on the perimeter on both offense and defense and been like, oh, sheesh, they could really use an upgrade there. And I thought they got an upgrade there on both sides of the ball. So I thought it was a nice draft for for the Giants. Giants also weren't paying Daniel Jones $40 million a year last year.

So I think they're hoping he might be able to do a thing or two that they were not regularly doing on offense last season. And I like the Hyatt pick. I mean, I especially like it in round three, right, which is where they ended up getting him. I think I would have liked it a lot less if it had come significantly earlier. But I'm glad you brought this up, Shield, because they had another, they were another one other teams where I liked their draft a lot. Banks just seems like a very wink Martin Daley

type of pick and someone that they needed. I mean, particularly as that defensive line has turned into a real strength for them, what was missing was just the back end. So position a need player who fits their style. And then to be able to add to the offense with the center. and with Hyatt. I think he's great. Yeah. Even if Hyatt just like runs in a straight line downfield, which is basically what he did at Tennessee in that offense.

But even if he does that, that provides a value that they didn't have last year. And it's kind of like along the same lines of what flowers will bring to Baltimore where their run game really carried them and their option run game and not having that threat made it easier to defend them and to defend the run. And then if Hyatt is just a factor, he doesn't have to be a great player. He just has to be a player that the,

opposing team has to factor into their game plan, that's a win for them. And that's pick 73. It's not a reach in my opinion. If they would have drafted him in the second round, I wouldn't have liked the pick. I wasn't a big fan of his tape, but you can't deny his speed and the fact that he can make plays downfield. Their wide receiver room is very confusing, is the only thing that I would just throw in here is like there was a scenario where say they'd ended up with like Quentin Johnson or something.

Like there's a world of this draft where the Giants add in a way where the roles become more clear. That doesn't really happen with Jalen Hyatt, but like they, you know, I trust table. I'm sure they can figure that out. But who is lining up where and how many slot receivers we can have on the field at any given time is the question I have about this team. But I still like that. It's a good question. It's a good question. Yeah.

Wondale Robinson, Isaiah Hodges, Harris Campbell, Sterling Sheppard, Darius Layton, Jameson, Grouter. They have so many wide receivers. I just pulled up their depth chart. My goodness. Well, the training camp battles at Giants camp with all these wide receivers. That'll be fun. It's an interesting mix.

Curious to, excited to see how it works out. Hey, four of them have to be good. Or three of them have to be good. Like statistically, right? You'd figure. Yeah. I guess we'll see. All right.

Now it's my turn, right? I owe you guys a loser. I'm sorry, I've just completely lost the thread here. This is bad. This is bad execution of the board. I've lost control of the board. But I had one other loser who, it's not that I think they lost control of the board.

The board just didn't, this is like not, this is sort of, the board just didn't come to them. And that is the New York Jets. So I did not think had a particularly awe-inspiring draft. They took Will McDonald's addresser from Iowa State at 15. I don't love the pick just because he's almost 24. He's undersized. I think if you're projecting players who can bulk up and develop extra moves at the next level

and deal with NFL caliber talent. I just, I worry that he has not done that in the extra time to add weight, to add pass rush moves, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. More so than that, though, because, you know, teams know these guys better than I do and they have their own points of view and whatever. More so than that, it just looks like they got kind of screwed because they had to go from 13 to 15 because the Aaron Rogers trade. That put them behind the Patriots.

The Patriots then trade number 14 to the Steelers who take Broderick Jones, the tackle, who was probably who the Jets wanted. They had basically told everyone in the pre-draft process that they loved Project Jones, and they were so into Project Jones. They really tackle is a clear need for them. And the tackles had been going off the board. Parrish Johnson had gone to the Cardinals, Darnel Red had gone to the Bears. Scoranxi had gone to the Texans.

So that group was thinning out, and then the Steelers jump up and take Jones. Jones and I think they just got sort of caught standing when the music stopped. And the reason I think it's particularly unfortunate is because they're in such a tight race in the AFC East. Obviously, Rogers moves the needle immensely for them and their roster is in good shape. But I don't know that I think the McDonald pick, as much as it's important to have rotational pass rushers in that defense, I'm not sure it moves the needle all that much. then you look at the rest of the division. I'm going to leave the Patriots out of it just because I think they're the ones chasing.

But I really liked the Bill's draft. I love the Dalton Kincaid pick there. I think he's going to fit in really, really nicely in that offense. And the Dolphins barely had any draft picks, but they still managed to get Devon A chain, who's like yet another player who can just score from anywhere there. Right? So I think there's a hyper competitive three-team race in the AFC East. And if I had to pick a team that did not use their resources very well to push themselves forward in that, I think it's the Jets.

Yeah. And I think like it's not just that they're in a tough race in the AFC East. They're in a race against time, basically, because you don't know when the Aaron Rogers clock is going to expire. You don't, it could be next off season. It could be two off-season. and I don't think they added players, which is hard to do in the draft, admittedly, but I don't think they added players that are going to help them win a Super Bowl next year. And maybe that's too big of an ass, but I thought that should have been the goal.

And I don't even think they attempted to do that. And it's never a good sign when your first round pick, when he's asked about whether he was surprised, if he went so early, is like, yeah, I was surprised. I didn't go. I didn't expect to go before 20, which he did after the draft. That's like, he gave them a bad grade. He's like, oh, they drafted me way too high. It's like bad value.

Yeah, I mean, part of what we were saying earlier about reading the board, I mean, I was watching, when I was watching the draft covers today, Peter Schrager was indicating that the Jets are very sensitive to this storyline that they got jumped by the Steelers for the player. They wanted. I don't know. That's what it looked like to me. I'm with you, nor I think that's probably what it was. If you're sensitive about it, it means that's what happened. You know what I'm not sensitive? about things that are just like not insecurities that haven't happened in my life.

I don't care when people bring them. Like I don't know. I'm trying to think of what a good example for that is. But like it doesn't bother me. You know what bothers me as if like someone cuts to the core of your lived experience, which seems like it's what's happening. Yeah. No, I think that's right.

So I mean that that's what it looked like on Thursday night. That's what it looks like now. where they wanted to get one of those tackles. It didn't fall their way. Steelers jump in front of them. They end up not getting the tackle. I mean, I probably would have viewed their draft differently,

honestly, if they would have got Broderick Jones, because now it's a left tackle. It's an offensive lineman who can play right away, be good for you right away, and who theoretically could help you for years to come. So we'll see. You know,

maybe one of these other guys, they drafted what a tackle in the fourth round in Carter Warren. They used another second round pick a center in Joe Tipman from Wisconsin. So it could work out for them, but I'm kind of with you. I look at their class and I'm like, ooh, that leaves me a little bit underwhelmed. At least they got Aaron Rogers.

All right. Does that, is that, have we gone through our selections here? Anything else? I think I have a loser. I've done all of mine. Okay. Steven's got a loser. Okay, Steven.

Close us out. The final loser of the day. I was going to pick Jacksonville as my loser because it was. It was a very, I don't necessarily hate the players, but I thought they reached a lot. And it was a very Trent Balky draft. And when Trent Balky is in control of things, it's never a good thing in my opinion. But I'm not going to do that. I'm going to pick the Browns.

And I'm going to pick the Browns as a way of giving some props to the Steelers, the team that we didn't pick as a winner that I thought had maybe the best draft. I was picking between them and the Giants. That was my, when I said, I'm picking between two teams. The other one was the Steelers. I thought they had a great draft. Yeah. And I don't think they reached for anyone. They got Darnell, Washington, the falls in them.

We already talked about them jumping the jets. And like going through, I'm picking the Browns because I thought the Ravens had a good draft. I think the Ravens had like the last two weeks have been amazing. I thought the Bengals with the picks they had got really good value and players that are going to help them right away and help them get closer to winning a Super Bowl. And the Browns because of the Watson trade didn't make a pick before round three. And then they end up with the developmental receiver in Tillman from Tennessee who I don't think, I don't think his game is going to translate well to the next level. I don't know if he's going to be a factor next year. I don't see impact players from the picks they did have,

and the rest of the NFC, AFC North got better. So I think they're a loser. They are, they, yeah, the identity there just is so messy. And it's so, like last year was so complicated and so just difficult with, when Watson came back, trying to get him integrated and up to speed there. But like, I almost wonder if they just sort of like,

don't know what they need. Don't know. They obviously had very few draft picks to address that with, but it made me think of when the, so it made me think of when the Texans made the trade to go back up for Anderson. At first there was all this stuff about like, well, is the first round pick next year? Is it their pick or is it the Browns pick?

And don't give you wrong, I think it's probably worse that it's their pick. But I was sitting there going, it's bad in both cases. Like this doesn't look like a great, if it's the Browns pick, it's going to be okay because the Browns are going to win a ton of games next year. Like, I don't know that that's something that I would want to bet on.

And it's a really good point that the rest of the division seemed like they made more significant strides. Now, they had the picks to do it with, so to some degree that was going to be expected. But like, look at the dolphins, right? they had very little in terms of draft capital, and they still managed to come out of it with at least a couple of players

who were looking at and going, oh, you can, I can see right now how that player is going to help this team in 2023. And it doesn't seem like Cleveland was able to do that. I mean, they've got to be feeling so much

heat and pressure in that building. Think about what they did last off season. Think of how bad that offense. The offense, if you, You just look at the statistical splits with Watson and Brissette. It's kind of wild to look at. I mean, Watson, there were 41 quarterbacks. And I know stats don't always tell the whole story,

41 quarterbacks with at least 150 dropbacks. Deshawn Watson was 40th ahead of only Colton McCoy in EPA per play last year. I mean, the offense was functioning well with percent. I know I think there was some bad weather. There was some weird stuff happening. And it's a small sample with Watson in six games. But if you were hoping for that to be, if you're a Browns fan, that to be something you kind of build on,

all right, six games, get comfortable in the offense. You'll be good in 20, 23. That didn't happen. Think of what we're seeing with the quarterbacks around the league and the guaranteed money stuff. And no one is coming close to giving that type of guaranteed money to a quarterback. And now you have limited draft capital because of everything you gave up to get Watson, where what we talked about with the Colts, where you get 12 picks,

guess what, you can miss on half of them. And it's still a home run draft. Well, when you give up that much for Deshaun Wals, and you're not going to be able to do the same thing. So, yeah, and then to Stephen's point about the division. The division has gotten better. There's no doubt about it. You have the Bengals are a Super Bowl contender.

The Ravens now had a good offseason as well. And the Steelers killed it with their draft. And the Steelers just don't finish under 500. So it's like, where do you land in that pecking order? What do you do if it doesn't fall your way in 2023? That's not a great ownership situation. what's his view going to be of it if it doesn't go well. So yeah, that is a, I mean, that is a very interesting franchise to look at with a lot at stake in this just one season, four months, weeks one to 18.

They've got a lot, a lot on the line for sure. What did you like about the Steelers draft show? I just, I thought, I thought they read the board well, like we mentioned. I mean, I thought that was a big move in the first round to know exactly where you need to get to get Broderick Jones. I thought that was good. I mean, Joey Porter, how can you not like the, you know, he wasn't like my favorite corner in this drafts, but I'm like, I just love that he went there. And I feel like his physical tools, they'll get it out of him, whatever he's going to be.

And that's an area of need. That's a premium position. That made a lot of sense to me. Keanu Benton, the defensive tackle from Wisconsin. I liked him a lot as a guy in kind of that 30 to 50 range that can come in and play right away. Like now you'll kind of look at their roster and we'll see with Kenny Pickett. But like there are a lot of nice pieces there on that roster. They signed Isaac Sayamalu, the guard in the offseason.

Like their offensive line is going to be better. I really wish we had a Raven situation where they looked at the offensive coordinator there this offseason. And we're like, maybe that's not working for us with Matt Canada. Let's make a change. Like if they did that, I would really be bullish on them. I haven't liked just what I've seen from their offense while he's been coordinating it. So I can't get too far down the road with them. but roster-wise, I really like what they've done this off-season and specifically in this draft.

I don't mind them keeping Matt Canada. I think it's going to be good for next year when they have a new quarterback. They can pair him with the new offensive coordinator. I had to get one Kenny Pickett. Oh, Stephen. I know. It was coming. We should have seen it coming.

All right. I think that about does it. Like we said at the top, fun draft, guys. and always fun to pod with the best in the business. This has been the ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pintiotti. They're Sheel Capati and Stephen Ruiz.

We will be back next week. Shield, extra point taken? Coming Monday? Benjamin Solac, is that on? Extra point taken? Coming Monday. Me and Solac, I'll have to come up with some new takes

or, you know, just recycle these ones. I'll figure it out. Fantastic. Everybody can look forward to that. Thank you to Eduardo Ocampo for production. on this episode and to Conorne Evans and Arduna Rambollah for additional production supervision.