The Ringer NFL Show - Zeke to the Pats and Cook to the Jets, Hard Knocks, and the Best Defense in the NFL

Episode Date: August 16, 2023

Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz recap this week's news roundup that includes Ezekiel Elliott signing with the New England Patriots and Michael Oher’s lawsuit against the Tuohys. Then they recap Episode 2 of HBO’s 'Hard Knocks' featuring the Jets, and Steven crowns the best defense in the NFL. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right now on the Ringer game on feet and all throughout the entire month of August, the East Coast bias boys are getting you ready to bet the NFL this season. We're going through each and every single division and revealing our favorite futures, predicting division winners, and even giving you some award winners. Do we think the Kansas City Chiefs will repeat or will they be the throne? Tune in now to find out on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to The Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pryanti.

I am here, as always, with Stephen Mideh. Stephen, mid-August, the dog days of training camp. How are you doing? I'm doing good, actually. I was telling myself,

I'm not going to watch too much breezes in this year. I'm not going to care. Definitely not going to watch the film. And then the weekend happened, and I watched all of it. I watched all the games and all the film. It's terrible.

I feel bad for myself. It's not like I'm bragging that I'm watching all this. It's a bad way to watch. Yeah, sure. Football is back. Football is back. A preseason tape grinding brag is like shameful. You should be ashamed of yourself. I have a Stetson Bennett download.

I'm ready to watch after this pod. I'm excited. What was the best of it? What was your favorite film to grind from these first couple of preseason games? That's a good question. I was going to say Tennessee because I really like Malik Willis, but the Jaguars. A couple weeks ago, I predicted that Trevor Lerlo, Lawrence was going to be a top five quarterback.

I'm amending that. He's winning MVP. He's winning MVP this year, based on what I saw. I saw like five throws. It was enough. He's winning MVP. Okay. We knew you were going to love Jags film.

But you mentioned Malik Willis, and I'm now realizing that we have a very, very packed show because there's been just a lot of news over the last few days in the NFL. But one of the things that didn't make our rundown, but that I do, I'm now realizing I really want to talk about is Malik Willis, seeming like he. he's maybe getting resurrected as a meaningful player in Tennessee. What did you see there? Yeah, we're back. The Malik Willis Hype train is back on the rails.

And it seems like he's beating out Will Levis for the number two spot behind Ryan Tannohel, which is kind of a surprise because obviously the Titans seem to have drafted Levis with the idea that he was going to take over eventually. And I don't think it was necessary. And also because towards the end of last year, Mike Rabel seemed deeply committed. to not playing Reliequillis. I've never seen a coaching staff

despise a quarterback more. They did not do anything schematically to make his job any easier. But I think he's grown from the experience because they weren't really doing that in preseason.

You're not going to put your quarterback in harm's way, like running breed options. They did a little bit of it. But like the regular dropback stuff, he looked a lot better at it. Like here's my comparison. Like if he was a kid learning how to read,

we're comparing that to like learning how to play quarterback. He's not like reading yet, but he's sounding words out, and that's all you need. Like, he's, like, getting to his progression. It's taking a while, and he's, like, stuttering over it, but he's getting there. And that's good progress, because the guy can run. Like, he's more confident as a runner now.

And I don't necessarily think this is a bad sign for Levis. Like, Levis looked fine against the Bears. It's just that Malik Willis looked a lot better. He looked like a better day two prospect than Will Levis, which is kind of a good problem to have it from Tennessee, because now you have three quarterbacks that maybe you can flip for something about. you maybe not like a first round pick, but maybe a day two pick. And that's, you know, that helps you build your roster of.

Yeah, totally. The Titans rebuild or lack thereof continues to be slightly confusing. But sometimes when you have three quarterbacks, you just have three quarterbacks. All right. We're going to go through some more training camp updates. A little bit more quarterback talk from the first few preseason games. Then we're going to talk about this kind of crazy and kind of sad. story that's happening around the blindside movie in Michael O'R.

And then we'll do a little bit of hard knocks. But let's start with training camp updates. First, and I know you must be excited about this one, Stephen. Anthony Richardson, QB1 in Indianapolis. It is August 16th as we're recording, and the rains have been handed over. Even Gardner Minshew beaten out said, quote, this is his franchise. Are you celebrating?

I mean, Richardson has been QB1 in my heart since, like, February. Welcome to the, to 2023, Indianapolis. But no, I'm not surprised. Like, just from watching that film, you can kind of see the bones of what this offense is going to look like. And I think it's going to be effective. Like, I think if the offensive line is healthy, Quinn Nelson is healthy, like they weren't last year, Shane Stike can build a top five run game out of the pieces he has,

especially if Jonathan Taylor gets back in and there's no. ill will about the contract stuff, that might be a big if. But Richardson is, he looked like Cam Newton. I posted a clip on Twitter where he looked exactly like Cam Newton running the football. And if you have Cam Newton in your run game, that's a good base for a solid

offense. And I think that's all you want to see out of this team this year. First year of Stuyke and first year of Richardson is something that looks viable going into the future. You don't want to be going into year two of this tenure being like, do we have the quarterback? Do we even have the coach? And I think Indy, like, early on, the

boxes are being checked. Like, it's not a huge deal that Richard Sending's QB won, but it's a very good sign that he's already taken that over, considering what type of prospect he was. He was seen as like a raw prospect. He would need some time to catch up to the NFL passing game. Starting to see signs of it early. And he was, he played a quarter in their,

their preseason game against Buffalo, seven to 12 for 67 yards. A lot of the stuff that you figure they're going to do with him that they've been doing during the practices that gets you really excited about what Stuyken could do with a quarterback like Richardson, they're not really doing that in a quarter of preseason action. But if the one concern with Richardson or the main concern, I should say, is just what he is like as a pure thrower of the football, I thought he looked good. I mean, it seems like he was going through some progressions. And I think he threw a pick,

but bounced back from it pretty quickly and looked solid. The pick was just like a weird play where he expected the receiver to run one route. And he didn't. So he had a double clutch. And then he lost his mind. And so, like, that's like a rookie mistake. It wasn't, like, a thing that I think you point to and say, this is a problem he has to work on. And, like, I would push back against the idea that he's a raw passer. Like, I know that's, like, the prevailing idea about his game. But even in this first preseason game, you saw him kind of, like, moving defenders with his eyes, no-looking guys, and doing stuff like that.

Like, that stuff advanced passers do. I think what people really want to say about Richardson is he's inaccurate sometimes. And, like, sometimes we conflate those two, like, someone's inaccurate. he's a raw passer. But I really don't think that about his game. And it was all, it was on his film this week, as early as the first precess game he ever played.

Well, also just to put it in context, like, if we're nitpicking, you know, accuracy versus like, is he doing the sort of 200, 300 level quarterbacking stuff?

I think the second best thing that people were saying about the rookie quarterbacks through the first week of preseason was like, well, hey, Bryce Young got hit a lot and it didn't kill him.

There was a graphic on, I think it was the NFL network where it was like, knock down five. five times got down, got up all five times. I'm like, that's what we're keeping. That's beyond like. This is bleak, guys.

So, congratulations to Anthony Richardson for, for not having to have his, his get-ups charted. But that's exciting. I mean, I don't know that it's hugely surprising, but it's certainly encouraging a fun cult offense with Anthony Richardson would be like one of the most exciting things that could happen this season. And we're taking steps in the right direction. Okay.

Speaking of steps in some sort of direction, our long national running back waiting game, I'm not going to call it a nightmare, but whatever that was, is over. Ezekiel Elliott is a New England patriot. Dalvin Cook is a New York jet. The AFC East has received an influx of running back talent. Elliot signed for up to 6 million with the Pats,

Cook up to 8.6 million with Jets. I'm going to assume that both of those are four. fairly heavily incentive-laden. But as good as it was going to get right in mid-August for two household name running backs that just still couldn't seem to find work, either one of these seem more exciting, less exciting to you? More exciting, I'd say Dalvin Cook. But I think the less exciting move, the Patriots adding Zeke Elliott probably helps them a little

more. I just think Zeeq's a good football player. Having him in your locker room just makes your offense better just because of the stuff he does outside of the run game. I don't think he's like the home run hitter he used to be. He's not like breaking tackles and getting you 10 and 15 yard carries. He's more so getting you like

four or five yard carries. But that's valuable to this offense. So I think he'll help out a lot kind of make them a normal offense again after last year when everything was so disjointed. And then as for the Jets, like, I mean they have Reese Hall. The question I have is Dalvin Cook going to take carries from Breeze Hall.

And I don't know if that's the right way to go about this setup. But having those two guys, we can figure out a way to get them both enough carries to get the most out of them. I think this should help the offense. Dalvin Cook, last year even, was making big plays, especially down the stretch of games, and helping the Vikings win games that they wouldn't have won without them. So I think it's a good move for both of them. I don't know how much it moves to the needle for either, but it's going to make their offenses a little bit better. the Zieg thing in New England,

it's hard to figure out how much it moves the needle because I think it's a good move, but it's a good move because of things that have not gone well, right? Kevin Harris and Pierre Strong, two running backs who they've drafted and I think have hoped would become solid backups to Ramondry Stevenson or solid secondary options there, just not doing a lot,

like struggling with health and then underperforming in the experience and the reps that they are getting. So I think it's good that they have an opportunity, right, because of the state of the running back market to sign a Zeke Elliott this late in the game. The other thing that I think he'll be useful for them is pass protection. But that also is because their offensive line is a mess and then their pass blocking situation,

I think is such that having a back who's not, going to be a liability in that situation is pretty essential for them. So great that they could go get someone to fill those roles. It's just not awesome that they have those needs because they've been drafting to fill those needs and it just hasn't been working out. But lucky to be able to get that player at relatively low cost this late in camp. The Cook thing is just like there's like sort of two different situations where if Brees Hall struggles to come back from the ACL,

then great, you have Delvin Cook. If he's all the way back, then you do have the question about him siphoning off carries, but I think of it more as insurance, even though, like, that's a weird, it's weird to pay Delvin Cook up to $8 million to be Brees Hall insurance, but I think you kind of need that in that offense, and maybe they just don't know.

I mean, I think that's the luxury of being in this short timeline with Aaron Rogers, is like you can make these luxury signings without really caring about it. And like you will care about this like three years down the line when we're looking at the Jets step chart. Like we're looking at the Rams depth chart right now. But like for right now, like just go for it. I mean, Super Bowl or bust basically. So I don't mind it.

I don't care about the numbers. I'm not going to talk about running back value on this one because I just don't think it matters. Like if Aaron Rogers is as good as the Jets hope he is, I think Dalvin Cook is going to be a useful player. If it's not and it's kind of a disaster like then for last year, I think we're all. going to laugh at the fact that they gave $8 million to a running back too. All right. It's getting into late August, so we have to talk about 49ers quarterback drama. Trailands is not having a great camp.

He's not having a great camp. He's not having a great preseason. Kyle Shanahan recently said that Brock Purdy would, quote, have to melt in practice, not to be quarterback one, which I will say, given what we know about Kyle Shanahan's outlook on the world and lifespans. Maybe doesn't mean as much as it sounds like it would mean, because my assumption is that Kyle Shanhan assumes that, like,

fire and plague and pestilence and general melting could happen at just any moment. That's also been his experience at the quarterback position. Like, it's, it's frankly a shock that a 49ers quarterback hasn't just, like, melted into the turf at some point over the last several years. But meanwhile, that means that the real quarterback competition is going on between Tray Lance and Sam Darnold. And the vibe is that Darnold is winning.

Lance had a pretty rough preseason game against the Raiders, started with a three and out. The stats actually ended up looking pretty good for him, but the tape was bad. I know you told me, and I don't know what it is, but you told me before we got on this pod

that you had her Shanahan rant. So, Stephen, the floor is yours. Yeah. So after that game, there was a lot of talk about Tray Lance and about how he doesn't fit in a Shanahan offense. He doesn't have the timing of the quarterback. He doesn't play by the rules of the offense.

And like in a Shanahan offense, that's the gravest sin you can do. And like I think the Shanahan guys just need to back off. I'm becoming like anti-play calling pill. Like I'm play calling is overrated. The play caller's pot, it was great. But I agree with my biggest takeaway from that still is Mike McDaniel basically calling everyone else on the pot of nerds for thinking that. that they're actually moving the needle with their play calling

and they take it too seriously. And I think, like, that's the main problem with these guys. And I think that's why Shanahan has never been able to develop a young quarterback. Like, never. He's been given talented quarterbacks before. He was given RG3, couldn't develop him. He was given Trey Lance now. He can't develop him.

Well, I mean, finish your rant. I want to talk about the RG3 point. Okay. He was given Jimmy Garoppolo. I don't think Jimmy Garoppolo necessarily got better as an individual. He obviously, his game was raised by, the scheme. But I think there's just this insistence on adhering to the scheme. That's the only thing that matters. And like, you look around the league and some of the better coaches, especially

the coaches that get a lot out of their talent, seem to just like let their guys cook. Like, I feel like when you watch the quarterback show and you watch Patrick Mahomes and you hear about his relationship with Andy Reid, like they give the quarterback a lot of freedom to kind of tinker and make their own adjustments. And like a big part of that Chiefs offense last year was Travis Kelsey and Patrick Mahomes just going off of vibes. And I think there's this dichotomy in the league where you have the Shanahan guys on one end

and then you have like Andy Reid and other coaches. Like Mike Tomlin I think is another coach that kind of lets his players do what they do. And I'm falling more towards that other side. Like the vibes, culture. We just got to play football the right way and everything else will work itself out if we have enough talent.

Find the green grass and the quarterback will find you. And I think the problem is like some of these coaches are just like buying into their hype a little too much. Like I think Shanahan is like our system is going to win us games. We need the system. System is the most important thing. And if you don't adhere to the system, we're not going to be able to win games.

And like there's certainly evidence backing that up. He's been a successful coach, but he's never been able to get over that hump. And I think it's because he's never been able to figure out the quarterback position. And what is this? Year six, year seven in San Francisco. And it's still more confusing than it's ever been. There's three guys now. One of them's Brock Purdy and he's the favorite.

Trey Lance, the guy you traded a bunch of picks, what does he have, like, a hundred dropbackbacks in his career, and now he's going to be 23 and not even get a chance. And like 400 back to the beginning of college. And when you watch him play, like when you watch that film from, I think it was Sunday or whatever,

when they played the Raiders, like there are guys open. His eyes are in the right place. He's seen it and he's just not making the throws. And like, this wasn't the case at North Dakota State. Like, he was a confident thrower. And I just think the Shanahan, the pressure that,

that Shanahan puts on his guys such as broken Trey Lance's confidence to the point where he's not even taking advantage of the talents he does have, the tools he does have. But I did think, as that game went on, you kind of saw him settle down and get into the game. He started going through his progressions a little more, started giving the plays a chance.

And I think that just speaks to, one, the lack of confidence, to the lack of playing time. And I think you can kind of pin that all on Tiles Shanahan. Obviously, the injuries matter. And Trey Lance also has some things that he really needs to work on. in order to be a viable starting quarterback, but he has not gotten a lot of support from Kyle Shanahan,

and it doesn't look like he's going to get any going forward. So a question that I've been asking myself a lot lately, I think, relates to this, which is like how doctrinaire is Kyle Shanahan about quarterbacks really? Like, I think we've had the exact conversation. Like, what is he looking for in a quarterback? And it's really easy to go back and forth on you can kind of see it both ways because I would push back on the idea that he's never developed a young quarterback. I think he was on the way to developing RG3. And the way that they designed that offense was special and was interesting and obviously feels significant within the context of can he do this with someone who's not like a play action robot.

Now, obviously, RG3 didn't develop because they behaved horribly with relation to his health. And we'll never really know what would have happened. But it is interesting to me that you can kind of argue that the Jimmy Garablo guy and the Kirk Cousins guy is also kind of the RG3 guy. He also probably wanted to draft Mack Jones when they traded up to three, but then let himself get talked out of it into Trey Lanz. So, like, because of those things, I think you can start piecing together an idea that he doesn't actually, at least in theory, he's not so I need this one specific type of guy. But on the other hand, it does seem like the system is more important than the player, which has been a good thing for them because the players at quarterback who he's had the most success with are not like. plus special talents at the position. And the idea of what would happen

if he ever got one there is like that mostly exists in theory, right? We've never seen it in practice. But I've been struggling with how cookie cutter does he need those guys? Like, could he actually embrace a different style of quarterback? And it sounds like you're saying basically no.

Well, I think you have to like, let go a certain amount of control over the offense and what you can control and how the quarterback is kind of, you want the quarterback to be seen what you're seeing. Like, when you draw up a play and a progression on paper, you want the quarterback to follow that to a T because that's how the play is going to work. And like some of these other quarterbacks like skip steps, some of them don't have to play by the rules because they're so talented. And I think finding that perfect middle ground is what you have to do as a coach. And I don't think Shanahan has done that. And I can, like, it's justifiable why. The guy has a top 10 offense every year, and he makes it work with

quarterbacks that we don't think are very good. So, like, I could see why he's so confident in his system, but I just think in order to take that next step as a coach, he's going to have to give away some control. He can't be a guy playing mad at and controlling his quarterback on the sideway. I just don't think that's the case. And I also think he's kind of hurt in a way because the guys he does seem to like, the robots that will follow his play design to a T. Like, you don't have to pay a bunch to get those guys. They're readily available, but like the culture around the quarterback position in the NFL doesn't really allow for that. Like, you can't have a successful starting quarterback. Let's say like Brock Purdy continues to do what he's doing for the next

three years. When it comes time to sign them, the conversation's not going to be like, oh, well, Purdy's an average quarterback, maybe slightly below average and he's propped up by the system. No, it's going to be like, all right, we have to pay this guy $200 million now. And that's what happened. That's the problem. And like, he tried to change. He tried to change. He tried to try to trade for another guy, like a Trey Lance type, and it just didn't work out. And like the conversation we're still having two years later is, oh, well, maybe he wanted to draft Mac. Maybe he should have drafted Mac and listened to his gut.

It's not like Mac has been good. Mac has been spent the last two years showing us why he shouldn't have been a first-round pick. So I don't know. He's kind of stuck in this weird space where it's not broke so you don't want to fix it, but maybe it is broke if you take a bigger step back and kind of look at the bigger picture. I just don't think we know because the thing that like, again, I think it's so easy to spend so much time and like, rightfully so, but to spend so much time being like, what traits is he looking for? On some level, I think it's missing a bigger part of the conversation, which is just like, this man has been demoralized by quarterback health issues. He just wants every single time he's asked, like, what Brock Purdy did to win the job.

he talks about the guy playing playing through some injuries. Oh, wait, that's just him taking a dig at Jimmy G. though, isn't it? Isn't him just like, you remember our last quarterback? He could never play because he's always hurt. But then the thing with Jimmy was that he tried to play through the foot too much. That's true.

He's just like, they were playing the Eagles and they lost three quarterbacks. The man is scarred. He's not well. Like, he's not doing well. I kind of disagree that we don't know what he looks for in a quarterback. Like this is like, it's like when you lay out like different piles for a dog and he goes towards the, like, they do this with the, like, sometimes you'll see media people like try to pick a game. It's actually, it's actually worse than that because it's like if you lay out a pile of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, a bowl of kibble.

And he always goes to the kibble. He must really like the kibble. That's what it is. And he always goes to Brock Purdy. Like you have Trey Lance and you have Sam Darnold, who's kind of like the perfect middle ground between Lance and Purdy because he can follow the play structure, but he also has talent.

And he goes to Purdy every time. Like he's shown us what his type is. And it's Brock Purdy, it's Kirk Cousins. And he didn't want to admit it, but it was Jimmy G. also. That's why things got so awkward there, is that on some level they were perfect for each other, but they just couldn't make it work. Which was because of the health stuff.

Like, yeah, I'm with you. I just, to bring this home, obviously things are not going well with lands. I'm going to ask you what you think is going to happen there, but I'll tell you what I think is that, like, he's going to be on the roster. That's in part because I just don't think they could get much for him right now. But the idea that this team doesn't think, and this coach and this front office, but like, Kyle Shannon calls the shots there, the idea that he doesn't think that they need three quarterbacks,

I don't think makes sense. Think about what's happened to them. How could you not think that having like three viable, I mean, Brandon Allen might stay on the roster for goodness sakes. Like, they need these guys. Everything about recent history says that like, Brock Purdy is going to melt and there is going to be fire and plague and pestilence. And all of a sudden, like,

if you can string together a few, solid plays with Trey Lance, that might be the difference between going to the Super Bowl and not. So I have a feeling that he's going to remain on the 49ers roster, even if Darnel does become the backup. We sound like right-wing podcasters right now. We're like, can you believe what's happening in San Francisco? It's all fire in Brimstone. It's crazy out there. Brock Ferdy is starting.

What's this world coming to? All right, let's take a quick break here from some wonderful sponsors. And then we'll come back with a new segment. All right, we're back. Stephen, you and I talked about trying out a segment idea on this show that I think we'll keep going throughout the season called Main Character of the Week, which is based on the idea.

You know that tweet about every week people are competing to not, There's always one main character on Twitter and the job is to not be the main character. Well, unfortunately, somebody's got to do it. And this week I nominate as our main character of the week. Mr. Sean Tui, who is the father in the Tewy family, who you might know from the Blindside movie,

they were the family that Michael Orr... I haven't seen the movie. No spoilers. No spoilers. Are you serious? No, I've never seen the movie, but I obviously know what happens. It's like simultaneously, like, it's a very troubling movie in a lot of ways because it's just so deeply stereotypical and like really gross in a lot of that. It is also like genuinely, you can't not root for him and like be excited when it all works out. Also, Sandra Bullock looks incredible the entire time. But it's also pretty gross in a lot of ways.

So it's a weird movie. I have complicated feelings about it. So does Michael Orr, who was the tackle for the Ravens and the Panthers for a long time. I think people probably know the story. But he filed a lawsuit this week claiming that the Tewis had basically duped him into a conservatorship rather than actually adopting him into their family, which then allowed them to reap all the profits of the movie that went to the family, which was about Michael Lour's life and obviously it wouldn't have existed without him. and he says that he didn't see any of those proceeds

and also that they lied about how much of a member of their family he actually was. I don't mean to ask this in a condescending way, but I only know about conservatorships because of Britney Spears. So I'm curious how much this concept has been in your life. No, that's the only exposure I've had to it. I'm assuming that everything that applied to Brittany's case applies to this, the legal precedent has been set. And that's all I'm basing my opinion on this story about. Yeah, well, so, like, that's the first thing is just, and again, my whole frame of reference has to do with that situation.

But one of the biggest takeaways that I learned from reading about the Britney Spears conservatorship was basically that, like, the standard for when you can, have someone enter a conservatorship is supposed to be incredibly high. Even in her case, and she's had a ton of documented mental health struggles and erratic behavior, it still seemed pretty unconscionable that she was a conservate because if you are able to go play shows, earn a bunch of money, live on your own, you're really not supposed to be in one of these situations. They're supposed to be like really, really, really significant impairments. Apparently, what the Tewis told Michael Orr, when they got him to sign this, was that they couldn't legally adopt him because he was 18 and that he would need to be on some level a part of their

family, which the conservatorship they said would accomplish if he was going to go to, if he was going to get recruited to Mississippi. I guess we'll find out more about this as this plays out. None of that holds a lot of water. First of all, because like eight zillion schools were tripping over themselves to recruit Michael Orr at that point. So it seems a little strange that Mississippi would have been like, if he's not legally a part of this family, we won't have him.

And then second of all, it wasn't true. There is adult adoption. in Tennessee. Sean Tui has said that he didn't know that. But the reason I think he's becoming main character of the week is that this guy just like, and I'm not claiming to know everything

about what's true or false in this situation, but this guy just shouldn't get in front of a microphone because his main defenses so far, which he has voiced to a newspaper in Memphis, have been, you can look up how much I sold my car, company for the last thing I needed was $40,000 from a movie, which I'm just not sure that somebody bragging about how much they sold their fast food company for would actually

pass up a paycheck, but that's just me. And then while claiming to be like Mr. Very Sophisticated wealthy businessman also just just pulled a straight, oh man, didn't know that adult adoption was actually legal. Like, shoot, wish that could have happened. And then somebody works for a reporter for people dragged up a clip from 2017 when he and his wife went on below deck. Okay, again, sorry. Do you know what below deck is, Stephen? Okay. I never, like sometimes my frame of reference is off and I don't want to be a dick and be like, do you know what that's this?

Below deck is a reality show that takes place on yachts. So it follows, like, the crew and various guests. There's, like, below deck sailing yacht, below deck, Mediterranean. And so there's like a, you know, different, different guests cycle in and out. I don't watch it, but like I'm familiar with the concept. And the Tewis apparently were guests on one of the below deck boats several seasons ago. And there's a scene where the captain is talking to them. And it's like, how did the movie happen?

And Sean Toey just, like, goes on this braggadocious rant about negotiating with Steven Spielberg and Harvey Weinstein for script approval. And like, I said no, unless I could get final say on everything. And very clearly seemed to think that he had a lot of say and everything that happened with that movie. So kudos to whoever found that and dragged that up. But again, not claiming to know everything about the ins and outs of the situation, but main character of the week for some just preposterously bad quotes. I feel like he's earned it. And I did a little bit of digging on this.

And there are some discrepancies on how much he made from the movie. Like he's saying he only made like, what, 15,000 and it was split. Like each member of the family got 15,000. And then his son, I think, did an interview after the allegations came out and said that each member of the family got. 80,000. So we already got her, we already got our stories mixed up. Get your story straight. A bunch of red flags.

Another red flag is, apparently this guy got rich off of franchising like Taco Bell KFC combinations. One of the worst places on Earth. Profiting off of that is bad. It's bad news. Poor Michael Orr. It's a bad fact. It's a very bad fact. The other thing is that, like, Michael Orr has never liked this movie. there's some

he didn't think that he was legally adopted like clearly he knew on some level that they had a different arrangement the question is if he understood the full implications of that had been told that it was necessary

when it wasn't those are the things that I think they will have to sort out as this goes forward but he's on record like a decade to go saying I didn't feel like it was an accurate portrayal. It's not an accurate portrayal, by the way. He was already on the football team by the time he started sleeping at their house. He was a pretty

decent student, like had a tough background and definitely had a circuitous path to discovering some, like, real academic talent. But was already doing that, like already doing all of that and was already a very accomplished high school football player who was starting to seem like someone who could get a lot of real high caliber college interest by the time that he started spending a lot of time with them. They were initially one of several families who hosted him on a rotating basis

and then he ended up sort of spending the most time with them before living with them full time and obviously before the conservatorship and any of that started happening. But the idea that like this family plucked this kid basically off the street and was like, hey, you should think about going out for football.

You're pretty big. It's like really not what happened. So I think he's always had difficulty. He wrote a book and talked about it. I think he talked about it a lot when the Ravens were in the Super Bowl. That it felt stereotypical, that it felt wrong.

Also, I think it was, it like kind of made his football career a little difficult. because it felt like he wasn't living up to the, like, Hollywood ending that you would want for someone who was in that movie. When in reality, he had a totally, like, fine, if not, like, pretty good career. He was, you know, he was a starting tackle on a Super Bowl team. He was a starter, a regular starter for, like, seven years. If you draft a guy in the late first round, like, that's a, that's at least an average, if not an above average outcome.

Can we make Michael Lewis the side main character of the week? Yeah, this is tough. I really like, like, I love Michael Lewis's books. Same too. Same, same, same. But, like, this happens, like, SBF when he's, like, profiling him and following him. He gets arrested. Like, he wrote the Mike Leach profile, and then, like, Leach's time at Texas Tech kind of came to a controversial end.

They wrote about Billy Bean, who likes baseball, which might be the most egregious of them all. So you're saying that, like, Michael Lewis is, like, the Grim Reaper meme of just, like, something bad will happen to you when this guy. comes around. Well, also, like, the Tui's claim that he's a family friend, is that how this happened, which that seems dubious. They also seem like they wouldn't be above name-dropping, so, like, I don't know. We'll maybe reserve judgment on that. But the moral of the story is I didn't know that it could be so flattering to have Tim McGrath try his hand at acting. But that's where we are. I move to reassign a reassignor Sandra Bullock's Oscar to Miss Congeniality.

Although I maintain she was fabulous in this movie. We can't take that away from her. Okay. One more break, and then we'll talk about Hard Knocks. We are back. Hard Knocks, also back. Episode 2 came out last night. Much more of a, I think, like a standard,

like typical Hard Knocks episode, just a week in the life at Training Camp rather than the full-on Aaron Rogers feature that we got in the first episode. I really liked this. we saw the mentalist come to training camp. That's a really, I mean, that's always a good hard-knock scene, right? Is when the coach brings in some wacky guy to talk to the team.

A lot of Will McDonald, joint practices in the preseason game with the Panthers, some more Aaron Rogers stuff. What did you like about this episode? What did you not like? What's up with the gimmicks this season? I feel like they got rid of the underdog trying to make the roster storyline,

and they just replaced it with, like, celebrity gimmicks. I don't even know if the Oz the mentalist qualifies as a celebrity, but they had Dave Shriver there last week. Now he's getting a big scene at the beginning of the show. I do like this season so far, just because I think there are interesting people that they've covered. And I thought like Sala got a lot more screen time this time around, and I thought that was fun to kind of watch the defense and the culture they said and

like what they're trying to accomplish. But I came away from this thinking that the defense is going to be good again. But I don't know about this offense. Like, it just seems like there are a lot of question marks that HBO is covering up with, like, cool montages of, like, Aaron Rogers being good at practice. Like what?

Like, the offensive line. That seems to be a huge issue. And, like, the run game and, like, how Nathaniel Hackett is going to coordinate it. But I will say this about the first two episodes. It seems like Aaron Rogers is the coach. Like, the offense. It seems like he's running the offense.

And there's the scene when he's like, it was during the joint practices. And he says, like, maybe we're going to finally figure out that that place sucks from that formation. And, like, Nathaniel Hackett is within, like, your shot of him saying that. And then he repeats it a second time. And he's not saying it to Nathaniel Hackett in particular. But he's just saying it out loud. But it's just a weird dynamic that I think it's, I still think that's going to be a concern is, like, how Aaron Rogers fits in with his new teammates and how the offense works around him. because that was a big deal last year in Green Bay.

I do feel like we're getting a very good look at some of the Rogers' personality traits that might be an acquired taste or grading. And not that it's all bad, right? Like, I think what I'm talking about is that you just see that he is a perfectionist, but also that he is really, really sensitive. Yes. And if you are just even the slighting, bit critical.

One of the things that I'm thinking about is the scene where they're in the quarterback room and they're with Todd Downing and they're showing clips of play fakes and everybody has to decide.

There's like a side by side and one is a run and one is a pass. If somebody says like I forget which of the other quarterback was. Tim Boyle, I think. That said short change.

Okay. So Tim Boyle was like he's like short changing that one. So that's, that's the fake and then it turns out to be a pass. Rogers, like, cannot let it go. Oh, short change that one.

Short change that one. Short change that one. And he keeps saying it. And it's like, dude, you actually live your whole life like this. You actually live every day reacting to every instance of Tim Boyle saying you shortchanged the fake a little bit and turning it into like a personal affront. And I'm exaggerating maybe a little bit, but it just, I, like, one of the, I'm really enjoying getting a clear look at that attitude, which we've always heard about. But I think, like, we're seeing it in a real way, which is interesting because it obviously has to do with some of why he's great.

But it's, it's quite a bit. Yeah, like, I think our perceptions of who he is is definitely, like, giving us those feelings. Like I was thinking about the one scene, I think it was during the game. Like the tight end. It was at the end of the game against the Panthers. Tight end catches a touchdown. And apparently he ran the wrong route. And like Aaron Rogers just won't shut up about the fact that he-

Oh, my God. He will not let it go. And then he goes to the tight end coach. And he's like, oh, great coach in there, like sarcastically because the guy didn't run the right. And then he said it again. He made the joke again. And like, you can see the coach like laughing with him. And then Aaron Rogers kind of like walks away to like talk to someone else and like the laugh,

the smile on his face is completely goes away. It's gone. It's like that. one Chris Paul Giff when he's laughing at Steve Kerr, then turns around and just, like, has a serious face. I don't know. Like, you could see both ends of it. You could see why he is a great leader and a great quarterback.

He, like, talks to everyone on the team. He, like, makes it a point. I think he said in the first episode to, like, move around and talk to different guys. That's what being a leader is. So you could see that. You could see what he's doing to that locker room. And the confidence, he's kind of giving that offensive room. And even the guys on the defensive side, who had to endure last year with Zach Wilson,

that bad offense. but then on the other end you can kind of see how there might be an expiration date you can kind of wear on his teammates and he can kind of be hard to work with. So it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out for the rest of the season of Hard Knocks and then into the regular season.

But I think it is like it is a thing that's going to be that we're going to track throughout the season. I mean he clearly like he's clearly paying a lot of attention. He clearly cares a lot. As you said, there's a positive side to it. There was a scene where, you know,

he's talking to Mackay Beckton. He's like, let's have lunch this week. Let's get together and talk. And you can tell that having an Aaron Rogers, I mean, I don't know if it's going to make a difference in that situation. But if you have a player where, you know, the track record thus far has been really challenging, it probably is a benefit that you have someone like Aaron Rogers rather than, you know, Zach Wilson to say, hey, let's talk about how we're going to move forward here and your availability

and what that's going to look like, I bet that matters. I mean, it's not going to make his knees hold up any better or worse, but if it's a player where there's been some sort of commitment type questions, I think that's significant,

but you really do get a sense of both sides of that personality. I kind of feel bad for Zach Wilson after two episodes, because it seems like every time someone comes to talk to them, they're like trying to give him a speech that's going to turn around his life. They treat him like a child.

Right. And he kind of treats himself like that. Like the scene right before the game starts and like Rogers is asking him like, is he wearing his headband? He's wearing the arm sleeve and he's like, oh, dad approved. Dad approved. And he kept saying that.

Then it was like he was trying to convince himself to have fun and to smile and to play football's fun. And it's getting kind of rough. But every time I see him talk to like a new guy, the guy's like trying to turn his life around with one speech. Like Adam's feeling comes up to him after the game. And it's basically like, I know it's been really terrible for you so far. And you've had a horrible start.

But you can overcome that, Zach. Anyone can overcome that. But remember, it's been horrible. And that's why I'm coming to you to talk about this. So you've been the worst quarterback in NFL history. No, no worry. Like, it's so patronizing. It's so, like, insulting.

I feel bad for it. It's like me asking you if you've heard of a conservatorship. How does it feel to be as Zach Wilson? than of like weird pop culture adjacent reference. I'm fine with it. You're better than that, Stephen. You're not, you don't deserve that. Thank you.

I appreciate it. A lot of defense in this one. A lot of Will McDonald. I don't know that I needed to see Will McDonald get three separate piercings, but looks like a good pass rusher. Yeah, no, I really didn't need to see that woman like pierce his skin with a needle multiple times. No, yeah. we get how Pearson's work, HBO.

Thanks for that. Jets' defense. You said you're buying the hype? Yeah, so I went to Ravens camp last week. I think we talked about it. And my main takeaway was that I had just watched the best defense in the NFL. Like, it's not that the Ravens' offense was bad.

It was just their defense was on literally every play call. And like, everyone's talking about Mike McDonald and like year two the defense is going to be even better, Kyle Hamilton. So I'm like, this is the best defense in the NFL. Wait, hold on. Was it the Patriots or the Cowboys who last week you, you, you, um, anointed the potential best. It was the Patriots.

It was the Patriots. But I think that's a bit, I'm going to do. So they've been dethroned? Yeah, every week, like, if you read the nerds, defensive performance is volatile, you know? So every week, I'm going to have a new best defense. And like, I was convinced, like, last week it was the Ravens. But after this episode and after seeing the defensive line just get after the Panthers, and like Robert Sala's cussing up a storm

and getting his guys to play and Quinn and Williams has like 10 or 11 sacks in joint practices, the Jets are the best defense in the NFL now. This is my third best defense and starting week two of preseason. Bryce Young got up every time though. Don't forget.

Five for five. Yeah, we got to get those numbers up, Jets, if you really want to be the best defense. I don't know how you keep, like, that's a pretty morbid stack to track, actually. I don't know if we should keep that one going. Yeah. It's really, it's like, because the implication is like he would be.

He's not going to get up. Mamed, if not worse. Weird sport. Weird sport we cover. Anything else from Hard Knocks? Not that I could think of. I think, do we believe that Aaron Rogers actually uses the grass to check the wind? Or is he just, did he just add that on?

He just really wanted to get some dirt on his hands. I believe that he used it in Green Bay to, like, get some... Right, that part, I believe. Tack on his hands and warm him up and rub them together. But no, he's just, he's checking the wind to, like, because of some sort of, like, need to feel masculine and control the elements. Because I've definitely done that in my life. Like, I've done, like, though, which ways the wind?

And, like, the information you get from it is not useful at all. I've never actually, like, applied that information to anything. I do think, like, if you throw something in the air and see where it, goes. I will say that I think that that's a better way to check that than the other one that you'll see people do, which is like to lick your finger and then hold it up in the wind. In my, I'm not saying I've done that many, many times in my life, but every single time I've ever done that in my entire life, I have absolutely no idea what I'm feeling. I'm like, okay, yeah, it sort of feels like cold because now my finger is wet, but I don't know which side of it feels

colder, this was absolutely not helpful. So I suppose it's better than that. I do like that the Jets quarterbacks, like Zach Wilson is trying to take after Aaron Rogers as much as he can. Like we saw the the offside call, the free play thing. If he starts

doing the grass thing, I think it will turn around his career. The funniest thing about them working the hard count stuff was seeing how well Rogers knows Carl Cheffers. and just see him yelling when he blew the play dead too early.

I loved that. I absolutely loved that. The look on Roger's face when he learned that Chaffers had a new, like a rookie ref on his crew, and he was like, he should go mess with him. And they just like went on Roger's face and he just had this shit eating grin for like three seconds thinking about all the ways he was going to mess with this guy.

Right, because he's got a new target. He's like a school yard bullying. One thing that this episode did not cover All right, I'm going to do this for a third time. I'm sorry, Stephen. You did not deserve this, but I'm going to ask a condescending question about whether or not you know something yet again.

Are you familiar with the Jonas Brothers? Oh, my God. Yes. Okay, I don't know. The Jonas Brothers? I don't know. I don't know. I didn't know you were a Joe Bro.

I wasn't. I don't think you have to be to know who they are. They're very famous. I guess they were at the draft. Can I try to name them all? I think I can make, there's a Joe, right? I know Joe Jonas. Correct.

Kind of a dumb name. Nick is a person. Two out of three. I'm not going to get the last one. The last one is like the one that nobody knows, right? He's like the. So there are four. There's actually a bonus Jonas.

But the fourth isn't in the band. He's the Cooper Manning of the crew? Yeah, he is. So Frankie Jonas. is the Cooper Manning of the Jonas Brothers. The third member of the band Brother has a name. He shares a name with one of our colleagues who covers the NFL for the ringer. I'm just going to play the odds and say Danny because we've got a lot of those running around.

It's actually not Danny. However, Joe Nick and Kevin Jonas make up the Jones brothers. So Joe Jonas recently had a birthday. The Jonas brothers of their, I don't know if they're, they qualify as on tour, but they've just played a couple shows at Yankee Stadium. And they went out, had some sort of celebration. Joe Jonas, I love because he's married to Sophie Turner, who's actually the one that I love.

And so I was scrolling through his birthday post to see if there were any, like, see what Sophie Turner was up to as one does. As one does. And so I get to like slide 10. of this Joe Jonas birthday post. And it's clearly like they're at all the photos. They're at a restaurant. There's cake.

They're having a celebration. And then in the 10th slide, there's Aaron Rogers just sitting at the table with them. Didn't make it into the slide show until the very last slide. But all of a sudden, he's just like at the table. And it's just like, the way that this guy is like, where's Waldoing, New York? is fascinating.

And I wish they'd covered that on Hortonoff. Where's he going to pop up next? It's really like, I mean, he's got to hit like a Billy Joel concert or something. Like something just so quintessentially like cheesy New York.

I don't know. Empire State Building. Like, let him play for the Knicks. You remember when Tony Romer like dressed up for the Mavericks and like went through warmups? Let him do it.

Who cares? But it's just, it's got to be weirder than that. I mean, I guess that's pretty weird. I just, I like had to, I had to do a double take. It's not that it's weird that he's in it. It's just that it was weird that it was the last slide. He's going to post a selfie with Eric Adams at some point during the season.

I just know it. Oh, my. That's what it's going to be. They're going to go to some weird dinner. They're both going to have their shirts off for some reason. I'm like deeply excited and also deeply fearful of that moment. Well, on that note, anything else? Any other best defenses in the NFL we want to crown?

Or we're going to wait until next week for that one? Random observation from preseason. Russ was Russell Wilson looked bad, but I think people are overblowing how bad he looked. He looked just regular Russ bad. I still think the Broncos are going to be fine. I have a bet with someone. I have a bet with someone else in media. I'm not going to name their name, but it's based on Russ being a bottom 10 quarterback.

by QBR. I have him being better than that. They have been the bottom 10. So now it's a personal thing. Bottom 10. The problem is QBR is like to the problem with quarterback stats

is they're like always more offense stats than quarterback stats. I don't know that I buy that they're going to be a bottom 10. Yeah. Yeah. There's always like a weird like top 10 guy in QBR like Mitch Trubisky was top 10 one time with Teddy Bridgewater.

Like Russ can do it. with Sean Paine, they'll be fine. All right. Look forward to finding that one out. This has been the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pinciotti. As always, he is Stephen Ruiz. We'll be back with another best defense in the NFL.

Congratulations to the Patriots, Ravens, and Jets. Yeah. As the co-champion of the NFL's best defense rankings so far. We'll have another one next week. We'll update that. More Hard Knocks Talk. more training camp updates, more preseason updates, more good stuff when we are back. Thank you, as always, to Stefan Anderson for producing this episode and to Connor Nevins

and Arjuna Ramqqal for additional production supervision.