The Ringer-Verse - A Chat With ‘Lanterns’ Writers Vanessa Baden Kelly and Justin Britt-Gibson | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

The Boys are back, and they’re bringing you a special episode featuring ‘Lanterns’ writers/producers Vanessa Baden Kelly and Justin Britt-Gibson! Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Guests: Vanessa Baden Kelly and Justin Britt-Gibson Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Devon Baroldi, and Jamie Yukich Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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anything 30, 30. Get almost, almost anything with Uber Eats. Order now. Order a minimum of $30 required, valid on grocery, convenience, retail, specialty foods, or flower delivery orders only, Terms and conditions apply. Okay, we have been covering lanterns and loving the show, giving all of our theories, our half-baked cockamamie theories,

our breakdowns, but we actually brought in a couple of experts, writers and executive producers on the show, Vanessa Bade and Kelly, Justin Brick Gibson, you guys are about to get grilled. Oh, shit. About a midnight board. I get grilled. Y'all about to get real. Well, we're so happy to have you guys here.

Thank you for coming. Thank you for inviting us. All right, so first question for me, now turn it over and let the boys do what they do, which is rip you guys or shreds, is how has the response to the show been for you guys? There was so much consternation. There's consternation about every superhero show.

But there was a particular consternation about this show because of the history of this character, like in live action, and because of a first transnation. trailer where it wasn't no green in it. Yeah. So now everyone seems so over the moon about the show. You guys are, I've seen you guys out here talking about it and stuff like that. How has it been for y'all?

Woof. My episode in particular was a lightning rod. It felt like in a way that I did not expect. It was a big rod. I thought, though. It was, though. But, like, I really thought, like, when we were in the writers' room discussing the episode and really, like, breaking it and figuring out what we were going to do.

I thought that people were going to go apeshit about parental abuse. Like, I never for one moment thought that it was going to be about, like, race. Like, I was like, it's a black green lantern. Of course, we're going to talk about race. I never for a moment thought that it was going to blow up the way it was. Interesting. The way it did. And it was interesting because the night that it premiered Justin had us all over.

We watched episode two, and, like, I was excited. But then it kind of started dawning on me, like, oh, shit, people are about to the episode three. And so the night of my episode invited, the writer's room has gotten together almost every episode to watch it at somebody's house. So the night of my episode, everyone came to my house.

We got fishing grits and all that pimps shit. And we ate together. And right as it was about to start, I kind of started having a panic attack. I was like, oh, fuck. Like, this is about shit. And Damon, like, he felt me, and he, like, text me.

And he was like, hey, just want you to know tonight is about to change. your entire life. Your whole career is about to change right now. It's also going to be the hardest week of your life. Here's this dude I watch on TikTok that'll help you breathe through this. Awesome. So I'm sitting there and I'm like, fuck.

Yeah. Fuck. And I think we had to exchange. I was like, yo, getting trolled. Because you asked us to come on before and I was like, bro, I can't take no scrutiny right now. Like I can't. The block is high. I can't do it.

I was like, getting trolled feels harder than you would imagine that it does. And Bill was like, Nicky call me. Yeah. I couldn't even call you because I was like, I can't talk about this right now. Like, I'm in like,

I'm a shell of myself. Come on, you can take those. You can take, I know you. I mean, I did. I'm alive. Yeah, come on.

But, like, Justin would keep being like, sis, this is what they're saying. I'm like, y'all nicks gotta tell me because I can't look at this anymore. But when you guys are in the writer's room, I find this show so interesting

because where's the line for you both as black creators where you're like, oh, that you don't necessarily talk about in front of white folks and there's generational differences. Like, where's the line? Let me, let me first start by saying, you said the word we.

It's rarely a we when you're a black writer and a writers. Correct, correct. Unless you're writing on a certain kind of show. That's right. You know what I mean? I want to be clear about that. Shout out to those shows that are empowering those writers. But there's not a lot of whee's.

And so day one, when I saw her, I was like, wee. Like, we can actually say that. Yeah. You know, and, and, and, and what it's like is, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, but with, but with, but with your sis. Yeah. You know, you know, you look at her, you just feel a disturbance. There's a disturbance or there's like a light, there's a lightning.

There's an illumination. It's like, it's a beautiful feeling, you know, um, because I don't want to speak for you. I've just, I've just, I've been, and that's, that's just the reality of our industry. There's just not a lot of us. in those rooms. I think it's getting better somewhat, but, you know, we got a long way to go. So this show has the clear, and we should say you wrote episode three,

and then you wrote five, five. And then we both co-wrote other episodes. Yeah, co-wrote two, and I co-wrote five. You co-wrote two with Chris. Uh-huh. I co-wrote six with Damon. Okay. So there was going to be just visually

when you see this show, and it's John and Hal, and it takes place over, you know, fashion back, two different places. Black male lead, white lead, when there is a power dynamic there, one guy is senior to the other guy, there is a built-in opportunity to see microaggressions, to feel microaggressions that sometimes might have not even been intended. We as black people, Steve, amen, ally. You all right, Steve. You do my best.

You're good. I fuck with you heavy. We as black people. Seriously. We as black people. You do the work, man. I try my best, you know. It is a pro-evolutionary trait to be able to, like, detect a microaggression because it lets you know when you're in cultural danger.

Midwest, hawks, schools. Right. You have to put that into a character. That's right. You have to show that on the screen. How have you felt the response has been. Are there people seeing race in the show, whether it's not in the show, are there people conjuring it?

Are there some things that are dead on? Are there some things that are too far? What are the fans getting right about how they're seeing the show from a racial lens? I think from my perspective, from what I've seen, people have gotten a lot right and a lot wrong. Okay. I loved that the response to the Midwest Hux Stables was what it was, because that's exactly how I intended it to be.

Okay. Because that's exactly what he meant. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it was, I loved all of that. But the thing that has been very, very shocking to me, again, I know I shouldn't have been shocked about as much as I have been. But the thing that was shocking to me was the inability to have some nuance about how. I'm from the south. I'm from Florida.

So I grew up around a lot of white people who would probably use the N-word amongst their peers. And then also turn around and, like, defend you in something because it's just, it's not. cut and dry. The South is a different place. You're from the South, right? Baton Rouge, yeah. So you understand. Like, it's like... The South gets a bad rap, by the way. Yeah, because it's just, it's a weird thing. So it's like, I can look at Howell's microaggressions and still be like, yeah, he's got some racist tendencies because that's, he's a man of a certain age that grew up in a certain time and place. Yeah. But I also feel like he probably fucks aliens in other places and

doesn't feel like he's any, he's non-discriminatory and both things are true. and for the audiences to sometimes not be able to hold that both things are true was really difficult for me because they're like, why are you making an hour racist? Why are you fucking just like, no, I'm making him a 60-year-old dude. I think that he is in the way that 60-year-old white dudes from the South can be, but wouldn't think they are because they golf with a black dude who they fucking love and would leave money in their will to, you know what I mean?

It's the nuance of humanity in that way where everything is not just black and white and cut and dry. And sometimes people don't mean to be right. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm sure we can all remember a time when we may have said something we didn't mean to say or, you know, thought. It's just like that's what I love about this character is that you can, you can draw those conclusions. And yet, both things can be true. So when you guys are creating how is a character, are you guys talking about what it means to like, this is a Silver Age character in the comic books? who squeaky cleed.

Then we have a relationship to Kyle Chandler. So it's like, how are you guys talking about, like, we want him to be a superhero but flawed, somebody who can get a lot of people killed because he's cocky. Yeah. I think we talked about it a lot. I think those are the best characters, you know, like, the first show that I was ever on,

I was Chris Money's assistant on Ozark. That's how I started my writing career. So I've come from all flawed characters. Like, if you have a protagonist who always gets it right, I don't want to fucking watch that show. That's stupid. He is not a human being.

I don't relate. So there was never going to be a version, especially coming with Chris and with Damon and with Justin, there was never going to be a version where I was going to be the proper superhero that always does right. Like, it just was never going to happen. We're not those types of writers, you know?

But I also think that there's just something really interesting about, like, we kept, like, calling it a romantic comedy. Like, it was a rom-com. Like, it's like, how to lose a guy in 10, days, it's these two people who actually are fucking flawed and who hate each other falling in love? Yeah. Midnight Run is a Ron. Yeah. Like that we were talking about that. But yeah, it's speaking of a war, you know, so much of the conversation that we were all having, and I think we can all relate to this, this idea of the sort of, this idea of wanting the, this sort of generational

war that we're in, right? Yeah. Yep. Where you're like, you're looking at your elders, you're like, when are y'all going to give us some space? Yeah. When are you all, I mean, I mean, name an industry, and I'll tell you somebody who's frustrated that they haven't, they've only hit, they've hit a ceiling because somebody else won't get out of the way. Yeah, we talked about that a lot. That is so, I mean, whether you like it or like, whether you like, see it or not, that was so central to our conversation to about what does it mean when you are the superhero and have been the superhero for decades? Yep. And you've been holding on to this sort of legacy, you know, and then all of a sudden this young guy comes around. Young and black.

Young and black, you know, and handsome, you know, and strong and confident, you know. It's threatened. And fearless, of course. That's threatening, you know, and that's a conversation, but that's so much about the conversation we wanted to have. We were talking a lot about, like, just the idea of replacement. Like, when do you bow out gracefully? How long do you hold on? And, like, right as we were having the conversation, we had already started talking about it and breaking it.

The Democratic National Convention was coming up. And that's when we were trying to figure out, like, who is going to be the frontrunner here? Is it going to be Kamala or is it going to be Biden? And so that, it just amplify what we were already talking about. And we would, like, talk in depth about what that looked like for both parties, what that looked like for our show, what that looks like in, like, politics, what that looks like in our industry. And really, we just, like, extrapolated, like, characters that we knew in real life. Yeah, yeah. You know, and, like, dumped it into those guys.

But speaking of the Rob Cobb, I do want to ask you. Chau be a freaky asshole. You know what I'm saying? Like, were you talking about in a writer's room, like, you were like, all right, well, he's going to be fucking a manhunter, and she's going to be this type of age. There's, like, I mean, John's got his ways, you know? John's got his ways.

I don't know what else to say. It does he or does he just look like Aaron Pierre and he's a lot of easy. You know, he's a smooth operator. That's a good way of it. Respect him. Speaking to John, though. Like, how important. was to get that his blackness right in this show.

For us? Yeah, because we were talking about how much time you got. Because we were talking about it last week. We spent like 15 minutes on it. The scene in the car with his brother on the phone where he's like, like that's so real. Like for the three of us were like, we've had those conversations multiple times. When you're writing that character,

how important was to like get moments like that right in this story? I mean, the beauty of this character is we, and Vanessa, I'm going to speak for you this time just for a second. You put so much of yourself into it that it can't help but be black. That's right. You know what I mean? Like, it's one of those experiences where you're in a, you're in the writer's room and you're like, oh, shit, I'm just going to bring my own family shit into this. Yeah.

You know, like, my mom and I, we've had those moments. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's like... You don't call your mom by her first name, though, dude? Nah. No. I'm not, no.

Come on now. That's a fake belief. No, yeah. It's a superhero story. That's a superhero show. Yeah. It's a superhero. That's how you know he's fearless.

He doesn't call like his mother, Bernadette. But day after day, I mean, you and I, we would talk about this stuff. And it would be so refreshing to be like, I don't have to make this up. That's right. I've been through this, you know. And John and his brothers, I have three brothers, you know. So it's like, for me, this was just like a way to sort of exercise my own demons, you know, for better or worse. And there was something refreshing about it and not coming at it from a place where I felt,

like, oh, I have to, you know, get this message across or whatever. It just felt so organic to the character because John Stewart is a black superhero. Yeah. You see so many things in your characters that are reflections of yourself, but you also write these, like, amazingly complicated and flawed characters that do despicable and, like, not great things that, like, I'm always so fascinated when writers have to write about things that they would never possibly do and still make those characters either endearing or at least understandable. Yeah.

Like, what was that biggest challenge on this show? Speaking for myself, it's definitely the Bernadette's senior relationship with John. Like, again, we were exploring a lot of stuff about black exceptionalism. And we talked, I know I've said it, like, ad nauseum. But, like, we talked a lot about the Jackson's and the Williams sisters and Tiger Woods and, like, what their parents had to do. One, I'm a sports mom. My brother played football. Like, I come from a football family

So a lot of that I see They had to hear a bunch of like, yeah, we were in the cage last night So nine because that motherfucker was acting like He don't know how to hit a goddamn ball They like They heard a lot of that Of course, I would never take it as far as Bernadette did And nobody's shooting an apple off

Oh yeah, like literally almost killing your child I would never do that But it was like taking it like that step further And doing things that felt a little bit uncomfort But maybe we had seen inklings of in, again, in like stories, like, we just had this big biopic of Michael Jackson again. You know what I mean? Like taking it a step further and doing things that are like beyond what we would do but are still within arm's reach of what we've seen. You know, does that make sense?

Well, the question I want to ask you is, how do you guys deal with the criticism? Black people wouldn't do that, right? Because, like, when you're writing black characters, the cultural authenticity of those characters, the audiences scream for it, right? So when I'm looking at the episode, I understand that the shooting the apple off the top of the head or the most controversial piece of making John was actually dropping him off in... We got beef. Me and you got beef about this. We got beef about it. We got to talk about dropping him off.

Let's talk about dropping him off. At 824, Black? All right, wait. Get at him. Get at him. Get at him. Yeah, there you go. Okay, but no, for real.

We actually have it. No, we got to think about this. Get at him. What we originally had, because Justin and I actually said verbatim, what you said on this podcast, which was, okay, but if they dropped him off and, look, somebody would just help him get home. Right. We actually said that.

Hey, little young blood, you good? That was actually a montage of all the different places that John went as he was walking through that, in quotation, scary neighborhood. And one of the places he went, people were outside having a barbecue. And they saw him. They go over to him and they're like, where are you going? And they point him how to get home. I mean, it's filmed. And what's even better is the people that were in it that did it, they were like, are like, they were part of our crew.

So we had a moment where we put some of our crew in it. but it just got cut for time. Okay. So, like, maybe one day there will be an extended time. You don't have to take that back. You don't know, right? Speak your truth, man. If we're in the spicy territory now, I do have to ask, you know, we know this is a TV show.

So I've seen a lot of consternation about, like, how much Green Lantern shit are we getting? When you're in the room, how are you guys litigating the, they have the most powerful weapon in the universe. But we got eight episodes. We got to think when they're using this. I mean, you have to, you got to pick and choose your battles. Yeah, that's right. Because if you abuse it, it's not going to be interesting anymore. You might think you want that.

That's exactly. It becomes the answer to everybody. If it becomes the answer to everything, then there's nothing left to do. You know, there's no story to tell. But then how are you guys baking in those creative solutions of, like, how the ring dies or, like, how having these little tricks. If you knew how. long we talked about goddamn ring charge. Oh, God.

When I tell you, there was a point when I was like, I don't want to go to work tomorrow, because if we talk about that ring charge one more damn time. Like, I'm gonna keep all right real. Y'all, y'all treat the charge of the ring, like a 15-year-old iPhone. Yeah. It died within 20 minutes.

You know what I was flying around. He's got that 5% all day. He's putting up shields and stuff. That takes a lot of energy. I know, but like that bitch be running out of charge. It do. I don't. No, but you got to think about it.

You're talking about a 15-year-old iPhone when he sat that ring for what, like 20 plus years? It's not a different ring. It's not the same ring. So, badly degradation, you know. What about in the constructs could affect the charge. That's true. If you have a different construct. Y'all are green lanterns, you're going from O.A.

You don't know. Wait, so that is, honestly, that is an interesting question where, because obviously Tom King is a comic book writer, everybody loves comic books. When you guys are making this show, what are you guys afraid to change stuff? from the comics. Are you like, no, because I've always told people, John Stewart is an interesting character, but there's a lot to do with him.

So where are you guys picking and choosing your battles? Constantly figuring it out. Yeah, we are. I feel like always figuring it out. It's a working, I mean, and the thing about it, just shout out to Tom. I mean, he was, he kept us in check. That's right.

You know what I mean? And I don't mean in a ruthless way. I mean in a kind and giving way of like, hey guys what about this what about that you know if you do that people will be so upset because that is one of the most beloved things and like you know what I mean and another thing that's really great about

having Tom in the room is he's experiencing things in real time like he experienced the comic in real time where like I came up on the Justice League television show like I came up on the cartoon you know and he's come up in decades and decades of Green Lantern

Parallax yeah he's come up in all of that so he can remember what the feeling was when it first came out versus me who's only read it in volumes, you know what I mean? And that's different. It's like, sorry, I'm going to use this. I don't know if you guys know this, but Justin's brother was on the wire.

So. Yeah, oh, dog. Yes. For a long time, I thought that it was actually Mike who killed Bodie. And I got into a deep, deep, deep argument. Man, you were so wrong. I was sitting there as Mike killed Bowie. I thought that it was Mike because if you watch it,

Whatever. I thought it was Mike that killed Bodie, but it's clearly Odagh when you see it. Yeah. But like I got into a deep dark argument, a deep argument with somebody said to me at the end, it's like, hey, nigga, you ain't no real wire fan. I was like, damn.

It's like a hunchback. That hurts. Yeah. But using the wire as an example, if you were watching the wire in real time, how you feel about the wire is different than somebody who watched, who binged it, like four years ago, right? So we needed Tom in that room,

and we needed people who were reading the comics as they came out because we would be like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, parallax, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were, no, no, no, no, that's seminal. So, like, but you don't know if you weren't reading it at the time. Now, I know what I saw and like how I felt about John watching the cartoons, but that's also different than how people felt when they were first introduced them in the 70s. So we just needed those checks and balances because if you're somebody who has that kind of affinity for it,

you're going to feel different about it than I do. Then how do you integrate a character like Guy Gardner into the mix where you see the movie and y'all guy, you know, speak on it. Speak on it. Speak on it. I don't want y'all know. You know, you know. I don't want y'all know.

The camera. The camera about the camera. A, B, C. Keep it real. Oh, boy. I mean. Justin can take it. I mean, here's the thing like you, you, how do I talk about it?

How do I talk about it? How do I talk about that? No, no, no, listen, listen, listen, listen. No, that's just real, though. Like, like, you, like, when we were introduced to guy, we didn't have, we had what we had, right? And, like, we had Superman. We had, like, I don't know, is the gold tooth? Was it?

The gold tooth was there. It was there. And so it allowed us to sort of create, we became John and Howe in that moment, right? It was like, how would they see Guy Garlander, you know? So y'all cooking, y'all owned the staying into them characters. No, because it's not even disdain, though. It's just kind of like, you know how John feels about this guy. You know how How feels about him.

That's not just like an accident. That's us putting like we got it. Like it's not about this is the thing about writing, man, especially screenwriting, man. You got to put the character's shoes on. Yeah. You know, I'm, you know, whatever my biases are, like, I find myself at times and probably, I'm sure you do too. Like, you'll be writing people you don't like. You're like, man, I kind of like this person.

I know. I kind of like them because I'm in their head. Like you're in their head. That's what I love about this job is I get to get in people's other people's heads. Right. You know, and so I go, I don't think about it. Like, how do I feel about a guy? I go, how does John feel about that?

Right. I'm talking about John real quick. John is played by Aaron Pierre. Aaron Pierre, who's British. Yeah. And. All right. What?

Have you guys seen the memes? This in the Averick jacket. Have you guys, have you guys seen the meme? I have, yeah. It comes out every night. And it is, bla, ta, da, da. And with the brief behind the

Speak up. Speak up. Like, you are crafting the, the tapestry of that entire episode, right? Is outcast. You hear it.

You know it. It's very, very, some American black man. Yeah. Played by a British guy. Was there any thought to that? Not to have the whole divisive Diaspora conversation that we've litigated

on this podcast before. But people see it, they know it. they hear it, how do you guys as writers, as black Americans, deal with making sure that that character stays consistent with what people are going to see when he's on the screen? Well, is it even important? Oh, it's very important.

Absolutely important. It's extraordinarily important. We were already, I think, at minimum breaking, maybe I had already written the first draft of episode three, which at that time was episode five, when we cast Aaron. Okay. And when Aaron was cast, and this is something that I will always, literally for the rest of my life, be indebted to Justin for, I was like, John Stewart is supposed to be a dark-skinned black man.

We are changing that canonically by having Aaron come in, and we need to change that in the writing. Like, we need to find a way to make this make sense. And Justin and I sat together, and we talked about it and we brought it to Chris and Damon, and they were just immediately like, we trust that you guys know. your folks. Like, get busy. You get to do what you have to do. And so that's when we kind of baked in this idea that part of his being chosen is because they felt like his particular looks were more palatable to white people. And if that is who he was going to have to impress to get this job, he was probably the more likely of the three brothers to be able to do it.

Hence his nickname. Hence the nickname chosen. Right. So we dealt with it some in three. We deal with it in five. And then you see like the outcome of it, some in six. But that was changed upon Aaron being cast because we were like, we have, this has to feel true to us.

And they were, I mean, they didn't even flinch. They were just like, yeah, do that. And credit to Aaron for being game for that. For being game for that. Because certain people may not be open to that conversation, you know, to have. You know, to have someone so open to have that dialogue and acknowledge it to say, because that's something we learned from Dame. And it's like, when there's a problem, you got to, you got it.

And I'm not saying this is a problem, but when there's an issue, face it head on. You got to face it head on. Like, let's address it. You know, we knew when his casting was coming up that there would be people that would say, hey, you know, that's not my green land or whatever. So it's like, all right, let's write about it. Yep. Let's have, like in five, we talk about, like, don't let me come out.

Like, if I come out with darker skin, I'm never going to hear the end of it. Like, let's talk about it. You know? Like, we have to. Then how do you guys use that for some of the other characters because you have Bernadette's conversation with the Guardian or you have Zoe and the Manhunters and who they come back as? Are you guys thinking as you introduce these elements that are from the comics that never really get there? And you're like, well, they're in the real world. We're telling a real story.

So how do you guys make that not only palatable but like interesting to the narrative? I think we just thought the shit was interesting. I mean, we was hoping y'all were going to. We were glad that y'all fucked with it. You know what I mean? Because it is that thing where you're like, you don't, you're like, are they going to fuck?

Are they going to fuck with this? I don't know. And then some people don't fuck with it. And they leave your really bad messages in your DMs and then you can't call your friend back because you're in a, cocoon of emotion. Right.

But I would much rather have that conversation. That's exactly right. Than the one that we're not addressing it, that we're not talking about it. We're just feel sanitized and safe. And then there's all these elephants in the room. That's right. You know what I mean? And it's like, we got to talk about it.

And I love the, I mean, the Zoe stuff was just like, that was right. It was just like, how can you not want to talk about that? I couldn't believe they let me get away with the line. How's your white man? Like when I was like, they're going to cut that. And then, like, shooting script came out. I was like, oh, shit, that is. Like, okay.

Did you guys think the Manhunter stuff would go crazy? People online spent weeks theorizing, like, who the Manhunter was, this and that, which and which. Do you think that was going to, like, be the undercurrent for, like, the first five episodes of the show? I don't know what I thought. I'm honestly, and I say this full, I'm so pleasantly surprised by the reception of this show. So all of this is like, wow, okay.

you know so so uh i i don't know man i i i feel like we we just did the job and we just didn't want i mean the thing is like and i and i i want to speak to all the fans like we want to speak to the fans it's like we don't set out to to to fuck with your shit you know what i mean we set out to like make your shit good man like that's the only a little bit you got to you know but but honestly we do it with but you do it with love man nobody comes in being like hey man i'm gonna piss some people off like that's that's not what you're doing when you come in you got a you got to you you do got to love it. Yeah.

And you got to find a way in, you know. And I think media matters as well because I think sometimes, and you touch on this a bit, but I think it's worth touching on again, when you're reading comics, you're watching cartoons. Yeah, I have an 11-year-old. And I have seen every Disney remake of every OG. Oh, boy. You know what I mean?

You see it. And when they try to do it identical to the animated classic, it using my son, word, it's buns. Like, it's terrible because you're like, there's no way that you can make that fucking pig seem cool because it's like CGI pig. You can't do that. Leave Moana the fucking alone. Like, it's, that's how you feel when you watch it.

The ones, like... We got thoughts on Moana. But, like, when, you know, the very first one that they did, that the remake that they did was the Jungle Book. Right. And it was very different than the animated classic.

Although it did have many of the same elements, and it was fantastic. Right. Right. And so I think to your point, sometimes people feel like, you know, I, in the comic book, Howl and John do this and this and this and this. And if I did that in this medium, it would be so cheesy. You would hate it. You might be surprised.

You would fucking hate that. I have a question. So you guys, Jomi just talked about how hung up people were on the Manhunter for the first five episodes. Do you guys find that people are? as hung up on the obvious second manhunter that exists in this show that you guys know is out there, and you will tell us right now who it is. So in the moment. Well, let me ask you another question because we know John Stewart will next be in A man of tomorrow.

You guys birth this character on TV. Aaron Pierre is obviously a star, but it is very, very hard in this environment to get a black superhero off the ground and for people to love him this much. So whether it's a second season, whether it's a movie, what are you guys thinking of John Stewart? Do you guys have stuff in the back of your mind? You're like, this is where I want him to go. I just want John Stewart to continue to live on in the ethos. So you know what I mean? Like, I don't, I, it would be shocking to me if it's stopped. There is a 360 character. There is a fully formed, fully fleshed out, fully human, black superhero in the DC universe

that is available to any medium that wants him. And we did that. Yeah. No, and it feels so good to see, I know certain kids probably sneaking to watch it, good on you, like, because I know some adult shit in there. But like, I'm so glad. It's just, it always feels great.

I never forget the day. I went to the Black Panther premiere. And I'll never forget this. It was crazy. I was in the car, me and my brother, we went to, it was at Man's Chinese. and I'll never forget the security guy I said this is like Easter Sunday

this is a blackest planet I've ever seen in my life and Limo pulls up Chadwick steps out in front of me and my brother we're like right behind him and then these African drummers surround him like he's Muhammad Ali and in that moment you're like

you forget that like how seismic this shit is for us to see someone like that who looks like us who walks like us who talks like us like out there doing shit that normally it would be, you know, shout on Michael Keaton, shout out Christian Bail, but like, it's us, man, you know?

And that's, that's, it means so much. And then I remember I did a job in Brooklyn like a year later. I was in Brooklyn. There was white kids dressing up like Chalha. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's what you do.

Can't have it. Can't have it. We put the Coupie on Steve one time. That was enough. I've never felt more alive. At the end of Black Panther, I remember just at the end, where all of the stars came in.

I'm sitting in the Disney screen room. I'm like, yo, am I about to cry? Yeah, you're going to weep. Yeah, it's just at the end, he had made the decision to stop ignoring niggas and come actually help.

Went to Oakland. I was like, that's amazing. For you guys. What are you going to ask you about coming back to Oakland? What? I'm saying that it was about time that they stepped up.

Hold on if they knew. We was going through it over here, man. Better late than never, man. Yeah, right. The Wakandah's over there floating around, diamonds and shit. Like, all right, bro. I'm from Baton Rouge. Okay, look.

So, Charles asked the question at a time when the Blade movie never got made, when Wonder Man did a show that I really enjoyed, did not come back for a second season, where there was, representation in the comic book landscape, but sometimes it didn't feel like there was care. Yeah.

It didn't feel like that they took care of these characters. You know you're going to put, you guys launched a character, let's be honest, that's going to live for like a long, long time on screen and live action. How did you take care of John Stewart? Not just from a cultural standpoint, but making sure that that character can stand the scrutiny of comic book fans, can be a character that's just fucking fun and interesting as well.

But being that is black and what's going on and the climate that we're here, what are you guys' thoughts around that? I think it felt like the entirety of the job to me. Like, you know, I was, at the time that we started this show, I was on the morning show. And I left the morning show early to come to this show because I was like,

that's about to be a black superhero. And there's got to be somebody in there. And then you get in there and Justin. And it's like, okay, we're doing this, right? Like, we're making sure. And there were more than a few times that Jess and I would have to be like, uh-uh. And again, shout out to Damon and Chris because they were always just like, really?

And they would like hear us. And even about like the outcast of it all, like, I think it was like two or three days that I was like trying to explain like if he's in a different room than his brothers, they're going to be speaking to each other through music. They're all listening to the same music. And that's a way that they can connect. And it wasn't quite landing. And then there was this one day Justin came in and was like, okay, here's what she's been saying for two days.

This is what we're going to. Like, we would just have to have each other's backs in those ways. And when we were able to say collectively like, hey, this rings true to me. If it rings true to Justin, maybe this didn't happen in my life, but I saw it happen to other black people I was around. It just became the entirety of our job. Not to say that we didn't enjoy writing like the action sequences or writing the other characters, but we were John Stewart's caretakers. Like we had to make sure that he was a fully formed human. I mean, the care is, it comes from just your soul.

You're just like, this is, I'm just going to be me right now, you know. And that's what was so refreshing about the show. I put so much of myself, you put so much of yourself and probably more than any other show I've worked on in terms of just my own personal experience, you know. And so that was, but that's, that's incumbent on the showrunner, man. That's right. Support your writers. You know, when they raise, yeah.

They can't pull those that's a billion times. When they raise their hands, listen. You know, like we're all in this together. We just, we just, everybody just wants to be heard. Everybody just wants to be seen, right? And it's like, it'll be, it'll blow your mind what you will learn if you just listen. Right. I'm so fascinated by the dynamic of like showrunners and producers and like their relationship to you in the creative process because it's very collaborative.

You're making story beats together. It should be collaborative. Sometimes it's not. And I'm very fascinated as to like when you have your own episodes, when you have things that you co-write, are there certain. moments or if there are any specific moments that you fought for a bit harder just to make sure that they were in the show because this was something that was important to you. There's a few things. I fought real hard for Earl. I'm not at Earl. I ain't even looking at you because you'd be saying some shit about Earl and that's my baby.

It's a fucking man-eating plant. It is. I love, I have a dog that I love, but Earl is dangerous, man. He's not. Earl needs to be, Earl's misunderstood. Earl is misunderstood. Exactly. He really, John's only like.

Yeah. At this point, now him and John, hey, man, I'll tell you all something. This scene where John tells Earl, there's only one time I've been mad at John Stewart. John breaks the news to Earl. Terrible. Because he doesn't.

He's on the phone. He doesn't realize. But when Earl, like, when Earl, like, wilted a little bit, I was actually like, God, that's his guy. So he's working for you then. So I find a lot for Earl. I was very protective of Bernadette

for obvious reasons, one, because she was a black woman in the series, but also because sometimes I feel like, especially as a black person, but especially as a black woman, we're only ever allowed to write black women one particular way. And like, if I'm going to have the,

I want to have the freedom that fucking Vince Gilligan has where he can just write any kind of whole white person. And, like, I can show you every type of character I've ever met in my life. and to limit me and my experiences as a black woman and the characters I can do because they have to be Corretta Scott King or else they're not likable enough, fuck you.

Like, I don't want to do that. I want to write every type of black person. Are you listening, Van? This is a big... Are you listening? This is a big sticking point, okay? But here's the difference, though. What's the difference?

She wrote her. Yeah, all right, I will give you that. We had a big one battle after another. No, no, no, no. In the piece that I wrote, in the piece that I wrote, Like in the piece that I wrote, what I said is it is incumbent upon you to question these characters. I said there's only one reason why you need to question this character is because a white man wrote her. That is the-

But Tiana Taylor does have some authorship to like- Look, I get it and I understand it. And by the way, thank you again for people that see me at parties and pull me to the side. Like, you know, the page. Like, you know, the film, bro, the film, the film. The film bros come after you. The film bros came after me, but the criticisms I had of perfidia Beverly Hills had to do with number one how that character was adopted from Vineland, things that they gave specifically to that character and the ways that they, and I feel like. You felt like there was some fetishizing, like it was fetishizing?

There was also some other shit and like, and we'll have to get into the whole thing, but. Get into me. My friends, my man sat up. We'll have to get into the whole thing, but I'm like, okay, if we have a black mother, and I'm so glad you guys are here. We have a black mother that abandas her child, snitches on the whole fucking situation. Like, the deal to me was it just seemed in places in that movie,

really convenient. The handling of black women in the movie, period. Really convenient. But guess what happened? So I wrote that. I made that note. And then I talked to a lot of my friends who are both actors and writers and said,

we don't want to have to write Mother Teresa every time we write a black character, particularly a black woman character. Not only is that fair, but that is powerful. And I completely agree. But I didn't mean to pick that scab. I didn't know this was... No, no, no, no, no. I was going to come back to you

so that you could expound on that because that is a tension that's always going to exist with the way we would love to see characters on the screen. And I think what's happening is we're sometimes used to seeing black people portrayed by white people in a certain way. That's right. That's right.

And so then we put the handcuffs on creatively on black people portraying black people. And so like if you guys could talk about what it was like to what it's like to deal with that responsibility. I mean, I got so much to say about this. Go for it. But, okay, number one, I love what you said about the word care. Because I remember here, I did hear your podcast about that

originally when you were like, I just wanted care. Yeah, a little bit more care. A little more care. We shouldn't have to write every character to be a saint. You know, and like I, and I, so I agree with that part of discourse. I, what I love about the discourse now is there's just actual discourse about it. That's right. You know, that we're talking about it and we're fucking listening, man.

Like, we need to have these conversations because it's how the stories get better, you know. And, like, we need to feel safer. This whole idea of like, oh, well, I don't want to say this because I don't want to piss people off. Fuck that, man. Yeah. Like, what is an opinion, you know? It's a right. And I have a right to say this without offending you.

I'm not saying your story's bad, but I feel a certain type of way. I know a lot of sisters who felt the same way about that movie. There's a lot I love about that movie, too. Like, both things can be true, you know? But as it pertains to this responsibility, I'm with V on this one. Like, I love that we're in a time where we don't have to just make these people,

it's one of the reasons biopics are so hard, especially biopics about us, because if you're just writing the saintly version of that character, it's not interesting. Yeah. You know? Like, who wants to write that version? That's not true.

It's not true. But I said you have to bring it up. John Sr. going out, he went outside. I was a little pissed off. He said, you scared?

Get up? Like, did y'all have to be like? So, wait, but he never read that. He never read the comments. So he doesn't know what the hell is happening to him. He's in bed and he's getting lifted up. It was a little tough.

That nigger said, yes. No, he's absolutely. This is a Marine. Then he, then, but,

bro. I just saw, I just went to see if I go, will they miss me? Yeah, yeah. I love J.L. Fons, man. Yeah, he's great. I'm so happy for J.L. Fons. When he was sitting there the whole time, he's looking at the screen. I love that fucking episode, but he's looking at the screen like, there it is.

They had me. It was right there. The nigger felt like he got cut from the varsity football team. Yeah. So, to me, I just think the way that the show, really the show crystallized in that episode for me, right? Because I think that that was the first time that I understood why John was such a fucking drag. Because at first I was just kind of like,

yo man, I get that you're the trainee. You don't really like this guy. But a bottle episode is always, always, especially when the show starts cooking for risk. Because you can get to a point where people like, why are you stopping? It was originally episode five. It got re...

Wait, your episode was episode five. Talk about this. What kind of switching around was done? I mean, a lot. A lot. I mean, you know, and, you know, seven was, I mean, five was originally seven. It was originally not in chronological order. Like, one and two were in the order that they're in. And then you went in and out of different timelines.

Of different timelines. Yeah. And what was the reason for kind of like the switching around structurally? I think it was just, well, I don't want to speak for the powers that be, but, you know. They just felt like it made more sense that way. It made more sense to go linear. Yeah, linearly, you know. But what I love, I also just want to, I don't know maybe you've already talked about this,

but like, John, speaking of John Senior, I just want to hold on that for a second because you were the one who brought Bernard. I mean, Bernadette is alive and who she is because of Vanessa. Like, John Senior, it was this, we didn't think that Bernadette was the instrumental force behind his development until Vanessa was like, I think it's actually the, I think it's the mom. Well, the big thing was, I was like, where is she? It was such a like eureka moment.

It makes it so much more interesting, especially because you think it's the dad. And then for Bordidette to cut, it just makes it so much more. Well, we inherited the dad, right? So Chris, Tom and Damon had already written a pilot. So when we came in, we were talking about what this looks like when your dad is pushing you. Your dad is pushing you. And I would just keep this like, where's his mama? Like, what is she doing?

Like how, how, and as we would discuss this more and more, we would, like, again, we would be talking about Tiger Woods and we talked about Venus and Serena. It was like, their moms were doing it too. Like, I know, like, we're only ever talking about, like, you know. Richard and Laval. Yeah, we're only ever talking about them, but the moms were in it too. And there's that Steph Curry documentary, which we watch all the time in my house. But Sonia Curry goes, the summer that he had to change his shot, she goes, now he was complaining and his dad, he was saying that he didn't want to do what his daddy was telling him. And I was like, look, if you're serious about this,

you're going to let your daddy do what he's telling you to do. Otherwise, you can come sit down in this house. And I was like, yes, because that's what we're doing. Now, you will have, like, with the Williams sisters, when Venus was in Florida and when Venus was playing, mom was hitting them balls to Serena. Like, I was like, why are we only ever talk about the dads? Like, you know what I mean?

Like, my ex-husband is always on tour. He's a tour drummer. And I got to load the damn hitting machine with writer. I got to tell him what's wrong with his swing. Like, we're there. And once we started having those conversations, everything kind of like opened up in a different way. And then that's when we were talking about.

Because I thought, honestly, because you don't see her in the pilot, I thought he was about to blow her head off. There was a moment when I was like, oh my God, we haven't seen her in the pilot. Where was she? And that's what made him fearless. Yeah, oh, my God.

I take better care of my characters. I'm not. Whose idea was it? Because it was so nice to see John not need the ring. You guys seen it very, very early. And I was always like, so that means he's more powerful than how?

But if someone who read Green Lantern comics, John Stewart gets to be the black one. He never gets to be the really, really powerful one, the Green Lantern. I mean, you're talking about when he turned down the ring? No, when he's like, when you realize he doesn't need the ring to use the construct.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The construct. I think that was, Who was it? I think that might have been Damien. I was thinking it was Damon too. I don't want to like, and I apologize to anyone in the room. Yeah, if it was your idea, I apologize.

So, but Damon, I think had the brilliant idea that that's the thing about these pitches a lot of time is they, it becomes a mind melt. Yeah. But, but Dan, I'm, I think it was Damon. I think it was Damon who basically was like, man, you know, because we have to think, what makes John so special. Yeah. And what makes him so sing. And it all lines up from the comics. I mean, the thing that was so attractive to me about John from the beginning

was the fact that he was an architect. You know, and I saw these, like, these different constructs that he would build that were so, like, complex and interesting. I mean, you see some of the cartoons, this dudes building guns and mid-airs and all that, crazy shit. And there's certain artists who will, like, his constructs will be drawn inside out, like the architecture. So when you guys had him being able to think of the constructs in that way, I was like, oh, you guys are fit.

So that I'm going to give Justin his flowers for because when we were just talking about who John was as a character, Justin kept saying, like, I can imagine him being in Zurich in art school. That's what he's starting off as as he's like finding his way into architecture. And so in my episode, when he's in Zurich, that was from Justin's like second week pitch. Like, we never knew it was going to end up in my episode. It's just who we always imagined John to be because that's what we were talking about him as like so early in the, room and I was getting so irritated by watching people on social media be like he's an architect they don't know what they're doing here he's not a fucking artist that's kailerina you know i'm like what to fuck that it's about to happen i'm so tired of y'all watch the show what's the what's the

you guys have been so awesome with your time we're gonna get you out of here real quick i only have one more question the boys can finish up how they see fit what has been the criticism the show is wildly successful so there's so much talk about it so there's going to be criticism What has been the thing that has irked you the most? You want to go first? No. I'm living in a better state of being. I think the one that irks me.

And I don't know, man. Does it bother me? I mean, I was raised by a journalist, man. We get criticism all the time. You know what I mean? Like, it's part for the course. You know, I'm sure you guys get slings and arrows all this time. Come on, man.

Like, this is just part of the job. But I will say the thing that I'm like, oh, man, I wish we could talk about this is when people say, you guys don't like Hal. People say, oh, you don't like Hal Jordan. You know, you disrespect Hal Jordan because, A, maybe one being, oh, you killed him or, you know, he's a grouch and all this other stuff. And I wish I could talk to those people and just be like, hey, he's been the Green Lantern for decades now. You know, like anyone who's gotten into a dream job, you get a little seasoning on you, you get a little grouchy. You know what I mean? Like, would it be or would it be fun, would it be more fun and interesting if he was just this happy go lucky guy who was completely oblivious and just like it was like I just, Kyle, God bless Kyle, man.

And I love this role reversal. Like, you get Coach Taylor to play the grouch, you know. It's amazing. And I think he does such an amazing job on this show. And so for me, that's the one that bothers me the most. I'm like, guys, we love Howe. Like, and look, if you can't see that, I'm sorry. But, like, we love how.

I hope you can see the love that we put into How, you know. He's so much fun to write too. Because you can, like, you can just have fun with that dialogue. Oh, we knew you were having fun with the Midwest Hustsville. You could just have fun. It was originally, it was really Detroit Huxibles, but it was changed to Midwest. I think the biggest criticism that I,

and it's encompassing a lot of things, but we're living in such a binge culture that this like week to week release, like every time I see anybody, I'm like, that's going to be answered in two weeks. That's going to be answered in a week. Like, this, people don't have patience for a weekly story anymore.

And like, it's getting to the point now and I'm like, y'all, get off your tablet. Like, I sound like I'm talking to my kid. Like, get off your tablet. You like, we need to. But it proves that they're excited about the show. It is. And so you're like, you take the good with the bad, but all of this is taking the go with the bad.

But there were so much criticism that's come out that if we had released all episodes at once, the criticism would have never been there. Because as soon as you saw this episode and you were mad, you went to the next episode, your question was answered. But so much of the criticism is like from low media literacy that I'm just like, wow, wowers. Like this is terrible. Yeah, no, it's never been worse. But I really do hope that it is, it's the thing that allows this kind of version of television to come back. Because I don't know if you guys saw recently,

there's like a study that got put out this past week how much viewership goes down when there's over a year between seasons. And if you binge something, you're done in a week on something that took us two years to make, then there's a longer time period in between it. But if we go back to traditional, like week by week, then it's not, y'all don't have to wait as long. So, like, I would just really like to return to this

and return to the slow burn and the water cooler moments where everybody, we get to do stuff like this in between episodes, but you can't do that when you're binging. Nice. It becomes disposable. It is. My final question is, the Green Lantern mythos is so large. This is obviously a runaway success.

I'm hoping we'll get a season two. Is there any, because we've seen Mogo get dropped, chip get dropped. Is there anything in the Green Lantern comics where you guys are like, I would love to take a crowd. at it? I want

Kilawag bad. Like, and I've been, did you guys talked about what in Kilawag bad? I want Kilaug bad. You know,

um, at least for the first season, you know, you're, you're trying to ground it. Kilauggan in the most rounded thing. So you know what I mean? So you're trying to ground it.

But, um, I want Kiloag bad. I just think he's so central to the Green Lantern Corps and like what's so special about being like intergalactic space cops.

Like, it's a fucking huge ass pig. Okay. For me, I got my wish because Sinestro was... Let's talk about a little bit before you all go to Sinestro. Honestly, like, the fact that we got Sinestro made me feel like we... Like, I got my wish because I was like, that's a hard character to bring to live action, you know?

And so the fact that we got to bring Sinestro to live action this season and to make him tactile, you know. Yes. And some people were mad at that. They were like, he just looks like you do with the sunburn. No, and shout out to... Shout out to Ulrich. You know, Ulrich is... Ulrich, you know, I wrote,

O'Rick's incredible. He's so good. You know, I wrote for him on a couple of shows. He was on Banshee. He was in counterpart. He is just, he is like, he's so good. Shout out to Celebration, which is like the old dogma movies. Why isn't there a little bit more, Sanestro?

He crackles so much when he's on the screen. Brother, there's still a whole episode left, man. We end this episode with him and John. Not a game left. Actually, like, I'm actually glad you brought Sinestro up because I was thinking of similar things. You talk about people talking about the show week to week. Everybody's like, man, parallax, atrocitous, the Black Lanterns.

Like, we only got one episode left. I don't know if it's going to go there. But when you see that stuff, are you like, man, like, that would be something like, like that's kind of nuts to do in like a first season of lanterns. I think the beauty of it, I'll say, I think the beauty of it is it proves that everybody's a storyteller. That's right. You know, you watch something. That's a great answer.

when you watch something and you're that invested and now you're creating your own narratives, that's when you know you did your job. Because now the writer's room's not just us five or us six. It's the entire viewing audience, man. Yeah. You know? And that's how I feel.

I'm like, this is what I want. I want people to predict things. Even if you're wrong, I'm like, that's a pretty good pitch. Yeah. Speaking on those predictions, like, obviously you don't have spoiled anything, but have you seen any of those theories out there that knowing how this all of this ends, they're like, okay, yeah, they actually nailed it.

You guys would do that. We put the Midnight Boys in the group chat as soon as it drops. And there were a few times, we were like, are y'all talking to them? I told them. I wasn't talking about that. I called the hat ceremony. How did they figure this out? And there was one week.

Actually, it was my episode week. You sent it. You put it in the group chat that week. And, man, I'm going to give you your proppers. every single thing you said I was like, yep, that's what I was thinking when I wrote that. That is correct. And then when you guys started talking about

how there would be the one sibling or the one cousin that everybody just has to get around them because they're the one going D1. Yeah. Yes. Like that's it. Because I understood that experience, like I said, coming from a family of football players.

Like that is the experience. You're working so that we can get him new cleats. Yep. Because he's the one that's going to make it out and take care of all of us. That was the experience. I mean, it was nailed to the point that I was like, oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's it.

And sometimes it's brutal. I'm not even going because they go get mad, but I remember somebody saying, well, you ain't going nowhere. Your brother going to LSU. I was like, I was like, unc, we can't do it like that. We don't do that. I was like, yeah, we can't, we can't do it like that.

It's not his fault. He can't run. Yeah. But it can get brutal. It can get brutal. Yeah. But there were moments. like that in that and I was like damn there that's it they're underneath the story and then you

all started saying and I think it's got to be this and I think it's got to be that and I was like holy shit they have figured out this season um but you know here we are we'll see what happens Steve got anything before you oh no that's great perfect to end praising us absolutely I want to say speaking of praise and y'all I want to say one more thing because as a writer you do your research before you do a pod with these so I've done my research oh you know I've listened to some pods. I've listened to some other, the adjoining pods, you know. I've been hearing about this, like, third chair on the big picture stuff and all this stuff.

Oh, man. I'm just going to say it. Don't be asking to be on another person's table. You built the table. You guys built your own table. Wow. Hey, and shout out to big picture. Y'all do great work, but you all built your table here.

Yeah. People should be asking to be fifth chair on this show. High key. No, I got it. Okay, let me piggyback. I'll piggyback. Yeah, please. the way that you all cover shows,

I'll use ours in particular, we are like chomping at the bit for you all to drop. Because we care what you guys think. And so I was, like I said, I was at Witson with Press. I was like, if I even say I'm a black woman, somebody's coming and being like, eat a dick, you're racist.

I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to do any more press. I'm done. I'm finished. So, David, y'all, you know people are saying this shit. So Damon is like, V, I want you to do this podcast. I have a friend who blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I was like, I think I'm done with press.

I don't want to do any more press. I'll do this one for you. I was like, you know, Van Lathen asked me to come on. He was like, oh, no, no, no, you're doing a midnight boy. He was like, you're going to do that. And you'll do this other one, and then you can be done, but you have to do that. That one matters. And then I remember I told you, I'll only do it if Justin does it.

Yep. Because I just, I'm tired of the vitriol. Like, I'm like, nope. Justin got to come get it with me. I want to congratulate y'all because I keep saying, I'm like, oh, you can tell there are black people in the room. I was just like, even if you don't agree with every single choice, I'm like, oh, we get nuanced characters.

We get to argue about this shit. It feels like you guys cared so much about making something like interesting. Yeah, yeah. And it's just like you don't see that a lot, especially. No, I mean, we wrote, we did. I did it for you guys, honestly. I mean that, like, I love what you guys do. I feel like I'm in the barbershop in D.C.

I was growing up. No, seriously, that is how we talk about it. Like, everybody, our community is a nerd, man. You know what I mean? Like, it's, there's levels to this shit. And so for you all to create that, that platform for that, for people to feel seen, like, just the same way y'all feel seen with our show. Like, I'm telling y'all.

If you guys hated it and everybody loved it, I would have felt like we failed. Oh, dude. Like, this matters more. This was the one. Like, this matters more because I feel like you all are so smart. And there's so much nuance, but also you just speak for the exact place that we were trying to touch. You know, there were so many times Jess and I would just look at each other in the room and be like, do you get what I'm trying to say? Yeah, I give what you trying to say.

Okay. Okay. And like, for you all. So for you all to understand it and to have picked up on every nuance, it was just, it was so special. Hell yeah. I appreciate that. We thank you guys. Justin Vanessa.

We thank you guys for joining us, man. This has been a lot of fun. We love the show. Hopefully, y'all come back for season two. Hopefully, season two. The John Stewart movie, Black is Black as Black as Night. Light skin night.

Kind of black as night. Don't do that. Come on. Bages night. We're coming together. Hey. Hey. Come on, man.

Caramel night. They go, D. All right. Midnight boys. Woo.