The Ringer-Verse - ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Premiere Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: January 19, 2026

The Boys are back, and they’re here to dive back into the ‘Game of Thrones’ universe. They discuss the highly anticipated first episode of the new series ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.’ Then they jump into a little Nerd News from George R. R. Martin himself. (0:00) Intro (5:54) Spoilers Ahead (7:28) ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 1 Reactions (1:12:34) Nerd News (1:27:47) Outro Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Chris Thomas, Jade Whaley, and Aleya Zenieris Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ringerverse This is of course The Ringer's Next is podcast Feed for All Things We are Steve The Architect Alman The Builder and Tinker

of Things Jomi is this player at Dinner Ronnie You've got questions He's got answers Oh man Van He is the receding Resurgent

Hairline Coke baby Chuck 24-carric closer Together we are known as I'm midnight boys Hold on for a break from our sponsors Hold on

Socials Insta Twitter Facebook TikTok Jomi So people, I'm asking you, raise your banners. Come follow us on all the socials on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram, and on TikTok. We ask you, on the mora, we need your people. Wait a second.

Hold on for a second. Don't do it in that voice. Do it in Nigerian voice. I was a, it was about to do what? It sounded a little already. Okay, here you go. People got about the way we treated Steve last. No, no, no, no.

It's insane, by the way. No, no, no. That's crazy dick, right. Wait, wait, wait, they beat up on us? I mean, somebody just tweeted me. I don't know. We got a tweet that was like, yo, y'all got to chill on Steve. I'm not even mad about this.

He put, he gave us to the KKK. What do you mean? Chill on Steve. They should not have chilled on me. They should not have chilled on me last episode. Steve did nothing, by the way, except for the fries. Fries were nuts. I'm sorry.

I apologize. Um, yeah. They were in their own basket in the middle of the table. Like, like, do it in my dad's voice? That is fair. That is fair. That is fair. I kind of put them.

You know what? Now that I think about it. Maybe if I'd have been more guarded with my fries, maybe you're right. So there's a distinction. If it was its own plate of fries in the middle of the table, it could get hairy. But if it's on your plate with your food, absolutely. I brought the food. I didn't do that.

I brought the food to the table. I understand that. It belonged to me. Ask me. I understand. It's not like you getting a huge thing of fries. This doesn't make it right. Let's all right.

You just see food anywhere. You just grab it? Jomi, we're going backwards. We are. We are. Anything that you did, but just do it in a Nigerian voice. Did it take the camera? Because let me ask you this, before you do it, is Nigerian voice like Jamaican voice?

No. Because I know, let me tell you what I mean. Let me tell you what I'm not talking about in the same. What I'm talking about is I know Jamaican homies. No, I can't do it. Talk and they sound exactly like me. And then all of a sudden they're on the phone. And it's like, hey, my brother, my dad, no, whatever.

Can you go into Nigeria? Is your friend of Chey-Hanks? I do know him. I do know him. I do know. Which one. Hey, make sure. So if you're following.

Make sure you're following on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, Facebook. Whichever I want, you must follow. You must follow me. If I find you, eh? You're not following us online. If I caught you, I will smack your head. Make sure you follow. Yeah.

Yeah. While we went to Jomey's brothers' graduation, Nigerian voice all over the place. You were blaspheming at that party. That was fun. That Joloff was a hidden boy. Come on, now. God.

Come on, now. He was great. He was great. Joe off is good, man. Come on, now. That's how we do it.

Joeoff is good, man. Y'all should have never told us, bro. Because Kerm was talking big shit about. He was hating. No. Wait, Kerm was there. He was there.

He was hating. He was hating. He was hating. He tried to deny it, but he's like, no, this is good. He said, my aunt, Joeoff is better than this.

All right. All right. We're on YouTube, like, comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every Midnight Boys and House of our episode on YouTube.com backslash at Ring Reverse. On Sundays,

Talk to Thrones is back. Yep. Now, Joanna, Chris, returning back to West Rose for Night, the Seven Kingdoms on Thursday, Budmash continues their coverage of fallout season two.

Lindy himself, Lindberg. I can't call him Lindberg. I can't call him Lindberg. I can't call him Lucky Lindy. Big Lynn? Why not? it don't feel right? Because the actual fucking Lindberg was not great. Oh.

Well, specifically, like, yeah, the, okay. Well, okay. All right. Okay, what? He was fucked up. Yes.

It's okay. Yeah. So you don't. No relation. No relation. Yeah, but it's still. If it wasn't for this, I'd call being like Lucky Lindy or something,

but you can't do that. They did a whole, they did a whole show. I can't remember the name of the show. The show was on HBO. And the show was about what if Charles Lindberg had run for president and became president? Okay.

And basically America became all Nazis, which happened anyway. Is the man in the high castle? Only years, no, that wasn't that one. It wasn't the man in the high castle. It was a different one. And it was like if Lindbergh became the president and it basically things aren't the way they are right now.

On today's show, us, the Midnight Boys, actual podcast we're here to do, we're going to react to the latest Game of Thrones offering the knight, a night, should I say, of the seven kingdoms. And we are so excited. What about us?

What about us? We talk about this stuff too. What about us? God damn it. Spoiler warning for this. We should say with the spoiler warning. Guys, we're back deep into the lore. Yep.

This is a deep, deep, deep, deep ditch of lore that we're going into. So the things that we could be spoiling might be from any of the stuff that George R.R. Martin has written, maybe even some stuff that he hasn't written, but definitely everything that you've seen that has been animated on television, all of that stuff. We'll try to stay away from. This episode is brought to you by Weather Tech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways. Catchup

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Guava. Hit the street. Grab a can and get after it. We'll try to stay away from spoiling anything from the novella. The novella is already out. We will not do that. But other than that, there's going to be heavy Game of Thrones spoilers in this, run a spoiler warning.

We're getting ready to talk about nice something. You're listening to a reaction. podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right, midnight manifest, Chuck, take away. All right, there's your midnight manifest for another seven kingdoms, created by Ira Parker and George R. Martin, starring Peter Claffey as Dunk and

Dexter Sol Anzel as Egg. The pilot episode, The Hedge Knight, is directed by Owen Harris and written by Parker. Our hero, Duncan, is dealing with the aftermath of the death of his master. The Hedge Knight, Sir Arlen of Penny Tree. Duncan, aka Dunk, Inherents, are all in sword and shield, and size to enter a tournament at Ashford Meadow to Prove's Medal as a knight. On his way to Ashford, though, Dunk meets a bald-headed boy named Egg, who dreams of being his squire and trained in the ways of knighthood.

Dunk leaves Egg behind, but his journey is nearly cut short in Ashford when he realizes he needs another lord to vouch for him as a knight. Dunk spends the rest of the episode trying to convince Sir Manfred to bolster his claim. Eventually, Dunk ends up at Sir Lionel Barathean's tent, aka the Laughing Storm. Sir Lionel and Dunk Bond, with the Barathean encouraging the knight to stand tall. When Sir Manfred refuses to come to Dunk's aid, the Hedge Knight goes back to his camp, which has been maintained by surprise Egg. Duncan agrees to let Egg be a squire instead of sending him back to the inn. That has been your midnight manifest.

We're going to start with you. That was a good midnight manifest. It's been a minute. It's been a minute. Yeah, man, doing this thing, bro. That's that, that's Charles. All right. So, return to Westero's, this is now our second spinoff.

I've actually fit spinoff. How are you feeling about Dunkin' Egg, seven nights of the kingdom? Okay. Seven Knights of the Kingdom. just not the fucking name of the show. All right. I already be in black about it. I'm going to the Auntie Eddie shit.

I'm going to the Seven Kingdoms. I'm not doing the whole thing. Okay, so, say this. I read the novella. Mal and Joe got me on the novella. It is a delightful and interesting story. That's going to be the only time that I talk about it moving forward, right? So I was excited for this.

This is what I'll say about this first episode. I have never, ever, ever, ever flipped on a show in one episode like I flipped on one in this one ever. At the point that we come into this show and they do the scene where the Game of Thrones theme swells up and then they show him shitting out of his butt. I was like, they missed. I'm not trying to look at this.

Really? Legitimately, at first I was like, this is the type of slap dick shit that's about to fuck me up. First of all, I don't like watching people defecate on screen. Yeah, that was right. I did not like it. And then, however, you fuck with it.

No, no, I also, you're in this show. No, no. No, no. No king chaining. No king chaining. No, no king chaming at all. Steve, you like poop. That's cool.

There's a whole scat. I'm going to have to wash my hands when I, um, but, but I, but I, by the end of this, they nailed it, at least for this first episode. I thought at least for this first episode, they nailed it. I thought that first scene is so important because you, you get the swell and you get the sword and like your mind automatic made goes to, back and restores, man, it might be crazy. And then you see him pooping out his butt, they're like,

this is not that show. This is not that show. It's completely different. It's the most important scene in the first episode. Because if it doesn't work, to your point, you're like, ah, I'm done, I'm out, not going to watch this. But you keep going, the world bidding it does with Dunk and Egg. I had a great time.

I can't wait for the rest of it. It just seems like something that's so refreshing and so new in this world, and I can't wait to see more. I am in love with this first episode. I don't think that I have probably fallen for a Game of Thrones episode. pilot-wise since this. This is probably something that has captured my entire heart, and it's probably because

it's exactly what Game of Thrones isn't. And I'll delve into that more as we go scene by scene, but like this is like wonderful. It's probably because like the visual language of this show is completely different from everything that's ever been. And rather than this show being like the antithesis of

Game of Thrones, this is like the we're in the Star Wars era now to me of Game of Thrones where instead of making a thing that's about the politics, the conniving, the backstabbing, the grand sweeping narratives of kings and queens and rulers and backstabbers long past, it's about a guy and his horse and a kid. And I love that.

And it's something that's far easier for me to both relate to and glomont to because it's so, so, so intimate already. The Star Wars, oh, go ahead, Charles. I was going to say actually what I think this show does really well is I'm like, I actually think that this returns to the heart of what Game of Thrones always was. I think by the end of Game of Thrones, and it becomes such a spectacle that by the time House of Dragon comes out, they're trying to compete with all the battles that you remember

and all of the big moments and the C.GI. But if you remember those first few seasons of Game of Thrones, it's a show about people in rooms and in fields talking, and you get the alchemy of like the hound and aria and these different connections. And it's like the small intimate moments and emotional moments make the big battles mean so much more. And why I love this pilot. This was this almost never happens with this IP stuff. I want to finish the whole season after the first episode.

I was so addicted to this world, the characters. And it's like I was more enthralled about just these characters and these characters and this field at these games and what it means that I had been in all of the like wars and prophecy shit that we'd be getting over the line. I was just like, I want to just see how far this guy can go. So you talk about Game of Thrones a lot, but what we're talking about and trying to put our thumb on right now is Game of Thrones before the Red Wedding. Yeah. So prior to the Red Wedding, what you had was an explanation of characters and motivations, putting people in situations where, you know, they're talking to people who represent the opposite of what they are.

Someone is talking to someone else, and in this conversation, you get an understanding of the economy of the world that you're in, of what chivalry and bravery in that world means, of what loss and trauma mean in that world. After the Red Wedding, you can't do that no more, right? Because the game is really on now. It was on before, but now we've taken some losses. That show became about who was going to win. And that's why the battles became the most important thing. And that's why what we thought of some of the characters early on

ended up not being what we thought of them late because somebody had to lose. This right here is not about that. If it is about who's winning, it's about who's going to win in a different way. And it's something that's a lot more, it's a lot easier to connect to. Last thing I'll say about it is

I'm not so sure that TV shows aren't supposed to be 36 minutes. Really? I'm not so sure that every show that we like would not be better if it was 36 minutes

no commercials. And because obviously a show like Pluribus, maybe got to do a little bit more, but when you, at this show, particularly in this pilot episode. Let's just talk about, I mean, only, like, forget about any other shows that we might, but particularly in this pilot episode, when this ends, it feels abrupt,

but then you realize the story of the pilot has been told. Yeah. Yeah. And there are not a lot of scenes where you have to go back, run it back, so that you understood it, run it back so that you didn't miss anything. You are out and you are on to the next. one and it's like, what's happening next? But I was hungry in a good way where it wasn't like, damn, I have to learn all about this.

I was just like, oh, no, it did the thing that classic TV does where I'm like, I want to be, I want to be next Sunday, I want to be back in this world, I want to know what these characters are going to be. I think the magic is that it's not paste like a 45 minute drama, it's a 23 minute comedy, right? You see like the flashback scenes of his old master, hilarious. It's literally a single shot for a second. It's, and it's so, like, when he smacks him up against the wall and, like, he flashes back over and over again, that's like, that's like comedy television. That's stuff you saw in Scrubs, those things you're seeing like modern family.

It's just things that, like, if you watch sitcom TV, you've seen over the years. And it just makes it, like, so familiar in a world where you never thought, like, we never thought we see like a 30-minute comedy from Game of Thrones. And here we are. And it's like, I don't say it's perfect. It's only been an episode. But it's great. Let's talk about Dunk. Let's talk about Sir Dunk.

Dunke. My guy. Big Dunk. Love him. Tall, lovable knight. Is he a knight? Technically. Is he a night?

Kind of. That's, I mean, that's the episode, right? Is that, like, his old master knighted him, but you've got to be official. Somebody has to either witness it or you need somebody else to verify it. So that's what he's doing. The first episode is, like, going to the Dundarian guy. Like, hey, man, I thought you could hook me up. That's what he needs to do.

I mean, what I like to bow, and this is another thing I hope they learn from this series, is I think these things are more successful. When, A, you know that this story needs to be told. And Jordan R. Martin wrote this novella. And it seems to me where he's just like, I want to talk about, to your point, what it is to be a knight, what was a hedge night? Like, what happens when, okay, there's no more dragons. maybe the stories that these knights were telling about themselves was a little bit appearance versus reality. And you have this guy that's essentially just like this oath.

And you're realizing at least this is where I think the story is going, is like, what makes him maybe more honorable than all of these knights who have the armor, who have the name, but are not necessarily protecting the realm in the way that he was taught? And I'm like, okay, that's interesting. Like, I can glom onto that. He's very much in love with the idea. of being a knight because he, like, from what we've gleaned,

he's idolized his old master and the knight that he's squired for. And he was... I don't know if he idolizes him. I mean, he idolizes the thing that are supposed to make knights. I think he feels like he owes him something.

But every single... Every single flashback putting into conflict what their actual relationship was. I would see it about that. But that's what I love about him because... all of that like nonsense.

Like he's probably, he was probably a terrible guy to this, to dunk. He was probably awful to him, but he was so in love with the idea of being a knight that it didn't register to him, that it was just like, okay, well, you never beat me

when I didn't deserve it, or when I didn't think that I didn't deserve it, except that one time. And that's the thing, what he's thinking about when he has to bury him. Not of the time, like, he doesn't know the words.

He doesn't know the things that are supposed to be grand and honorable. It's supposed to be the things that he taught him or the things that he was about to train for. And it's probably not much. But he loves the idea of being a knight and serving and being honorable. Because you could see that in everything that he does in this pilot. He's not conniving. He doesn't demand things. He waits properly. He doesn't yell at the knight's whores when he's

like, all right, well, I'll come back in the morning or I'll come back later. He's always trying to do things like not even the right way, but just in an unobtrusive way to the rest of the of the world. Well, I mean, we'll talk about it later, but the conversation he has with Lionel, where he's like, why aren't you're tall, stand tall? Be tall. He's like, I'm unassuming. Like, where I grew up, how I've grown up is that you don't want to stand out.

Yeah. And, like, that's his, that's his MO. That's how he behaves. Well, I think what's interesting about Sir Penny Tree and how Dunk views him is that he's the type of mentor who is like, his words, he is teaching him in a vacuum what it means to be an honorable night. but it's coming from a messenger who does not follow his own rules. And that's interesting to me.

Where it's like what you're seeing is dunk coming to a realization that his mentor was not who he thought he was. Where it's like maybe some of the lessons he was teaching him were important, but this man was not living by his own code. And that is very true to real life where it's like, there are people with uncles that I grew up with. Let's say you know, it's like, all right, we've got to uplift our sisters, like real hip-hop.

and that. And then you go through their life and all their mistakes, you're like, you're not learning by the same goal that you are telling me about. And I think Dunk is going through that journey of just like,

actually who was my master now that he's gone? Interesting. So I likened being a knight to being a mechanic. How so? Because in Baton Rouge, there was two ways for you to get your brake pads fixed. One was to take your car to walk.

When you take your car to Walmart, you got to get the car to Walmart. The brakes is probably already grinding by the time that you need to get them fixed. So you got to drive the car to Walmart with the brakes grinding. Then you got to leave your car. You got to wait. You got to go to Walmart. You're going to want to buy other shit. It's T-shirts there, all different types of stuff.

Maybe you need a lot of- You wait. Then you go to wait. Then they're about to hit you. They're going to charge you for it, right? There was another guy who we used to have come fix your brake pads. there was old shady tree mechanic. It was a guy.

This guy was probably, sometimes he was on drugs, okay? And he would come by your house, and if you bought the brake pads, if you bought the brake pads, he would come to your crib and legitimately, for $30 per brake pad, he would take the brake pads off your car

and put him on another one. And I remember I had a conversation with my dad about whether or not that guy is a mechanic. And my dad said, it depends on what he's a mechanic. depends on what you think makes you a mechanic. If you're a mechanic because you get a certificate that says that you're a mechanic, then he's not a mechanic.

But if you are a mechanic because you know how to change somebody's brake pads, then you are a mechanic, right? The knowledge and the adherence to what fixing cars is is what makes you a mechanic. That is what the first episode of the show is asking is Dunk has spent basically I don't know how long. I mean, we don't know how long yet. An entire life around a night. Not a traditional night.

Not a night with a house. A hedge knight, right? Does that make you a night? Does that make you a night? Because here's the deal. As honorable as we say that he is, if in fact he knowingly is going around telling people

that he is a knight and he is not, he's a liar. Well, again, like he was knighted by his, by sir, what's his name, of penitry? We haven't seen that. We haven't seen that. Great cutaway gag, though.

I'm sorry, am I to inherit it? Yeah, but I, again, I would, for Doug, like, guys, Dunk can't even talk to women, bro. You know, I don't know if you guys notice that scene where he's talking to, they call him the horse. Uh-huh.

Right? But, you know, we were sex worker. Shout out, y'all, we respect y'all. Pro sex work. Pro sex worker. He's talking to the horse outside, and he can't get a word out. He cannot get a word out.

Van, what was wrong? Just do the show. Hey, last time we're doing it, we support everyone, all of y'all. Everybody's support it. All I'm saying is a guy who can barely talk to women. I can't imagine he went to the master of games. Some of us have supported you more directly than others of us has. Go ahead.

What's that? You want to speak up? You can't whisper that. Talk, talk, speak up. Come on. Y'all, y'all say y'all about it, but whatever. Stolen valor of talking about it. Y'all not dropping money.

Y'all have to support you. Wow. Come on. We got to put like $50 only fans for you to... So you're saying now. He can't talk to women. I can't imagine that he's lying about getting knotted. That seems like, even for Dunk, it seems like a bridge too much.

But he can talk to women now. You know why? He's confronting those women are mean to him. And he says all I was asking for was a little bit of help. He's not charming, right? But when it's time to dance. He dances. When you ask him a question, why are you in my tent?

He hesitates, but supper, it's time to eat. Him being authentic is legitimately getting him through this world, this world full of people who have titles, but are incredibly inauthentic. And that's why I kind of love this show, because the bones of all of Game of Thrones, as we've known it so far, is people that operate either 10,

steps ahead of whatever their perceived wants, needs, and desires are. And Dunk is in the immediacy with the things that he wants, needs, desires, and loves. You think so? Yes. Okay. He doesn't lie. He doesn't seem to want to be duplicitous. But he has a whole plan.

He wants to go to the tourney so that he can win more and prove himself a night and then hopefully... That's a grand plan, is what I'm saying. So it's not just about eating the next day. It's for him, it is about I have to do all of these things to affect this end of assessing this great thing. Right, but the heroes in Game of Thrones they had their plans measured in centuries. He's just looking to be in the next day.

And I think that what makes this show so appealing to me is when he finally talks to Barathean. And he's just kind of listening to him talk at him and he's like, well, if you're not here to celebrate, you're here to kill me, right? And Dunk is just profoundly confused

because he doesn't know why. Because he's being fucked with. Yeah. But it's also because Baratheon doesn't even mean that. He doesn't mean it. But like nobody, he's never encountered anybody in his life that can think or do the things that he does. Like, he will think like that, and he'll get profoundly drunk, and he'll be as, like, grandiose and fun and not caring about his house or the money or the food or anything like that. But this is probably the best day of Dunk's life. He gets a free meal, infinite ale, and befriends a lord that could may or may not even remember him the next day.

And the next meal, the next thing that he gets to sleep on, he's sleeping under a tree. And he'll probably never see him again. Like you wanted him to think, oh, man, when what's his name, like, rejected him. He's like, like, a million nights took wounds for my father. Some died. Some died, and we weren't even going to remember you. Like, the next thing you immediately was like, we'll go right back to the Barathian. He'll vouch for you.

He'll get you in the games, right? That's what you want him to do. I don't think he'll even want to do that. Because he probably wants to go about those things in such a way to be like, Oh, hey, man, remember that great night that we had? I don't even think he's got that in him. He's that pure. And that's what I like about this.

That's a really great scene, too. Three things about that scene. One, we got to call you Raymond Fossaway because that's what you did to us at all seasons. Probably a little bit. You took us to the place and he left us. Hey, but you got food. Well, and then the food that you stole from him.

That's one, two. Daniel Ings is incredible. He's so good. As Lionel Barathean. Shout out all the lovesick fans. Shout out Luke. He was amazing. Great seeing him.

on screen again, but like, I don't know how you guys felt watching that, but I was, like, captivated. That doesn't happen in the books. So it's interesting to see, like, what the, like, what the reason was for it. And that was my third point, which is that conversation to having drunk, he's just like, yo, what are you doing here? He's telling him, like, his story about how he became the laughing storm. And he tells, Dunk, he's like, listen, you might not be one of the, like, the main guys,

but the fact that you're here, willing to try, that says everything. that he's say about you. So this is, different movies deal with this differently. I'll make a comparison. You guys remember the dinner scene in Titanic? Yeah. Yeah.

Who's the most interesting person at the dinner? Oh, what's her name? The one that was teaching Leo how to use the fork in knife. Jack's the most interesting one. I mean, Jack's the reason why Jack is the most interesting one is because that scene sets to put nobility and privilege to set that against what it means to live a life of somebody who won their ticket on the Titanic

in a lucky hand of poker or whatever, like a lucky hand of cards, right? And whereas we're people who are going to see Titanic are probably more enamored and obsessed with people who have had everything since the moment that they were born, there's always the thought that they are more enamored

with people who haven't had that. Like, it regales with the tale with how you got on a titanic. When he is looking at Dunk and when Dunk is in front of these people, what you start to see with all of them, except for Egg, we're going to talk about in a second,

what you start to see with all of them is that he surprises. them. Like he surprises Barathean. He say, who doesn't like dancing? All of a sudden, they're dancing. He can't step on his feet. He then steps on Barathean's feet. Baratian looks like this motherfucker here can go. Let's have some fun. There's actually something there.

When the women, the sex worker ladies, when they are laughing at him and he stands up for himself, he goes, look, I'm asking for us a little help. I'm not trying to come in here and take advantage of you guys the way everyone else is. This world is new to me. I'm just asking for a little help. At one point, you are just a person. Surprising to them.

Wherever he goes, he surprises people. The only people, the only person that's not surprised by him that actually makes inquiries of him that continues to try to litigate who he actually is is egg. Well, can I talk about that? Because I think entering this, I was very burnt. tout on the lone wolf and cub thing. And it was watching the show where I realize why. Or I think a lot of times when writers and creators reach for lone wolf and cub,

they just stop at the obvious. Okay, one of these people is older and one of them is younger. And it's just like it's a, it's a conversation about generations and the difference. And the chemistry between Dunk and Egg is so much deeper.

You can tell that to your point, Dunk has actually been out in the world. he slept under the trees. A lot of the things that make a night in these stories, he's done or he's been taught about. And then you have this little kid where you're like, there's something off about him because he talks really, really well

and he dreams of being a night. But he's been raised in a different way. And he also knows how to do everything. So there's a little bit like, okay, what is this lone wolf teaching this cub and what is the cub teaching this lone wolf? because it's not just older and younger. It's like,

Dunk has kind of the thought process of a dumb farm boy where he takes things in a very matter-of-fact, genuine way. And like, egg is a little bit like, but I've been raised differently. I know how to use my words. I know how to, like, maneuver. I know. And I was just like, okay, this is interesting.

Like, what do these two mean to each other? And it's like, if you take something like Obi-Wan in the Obi-Wan show, which was Long Wolf and Cub. To me, him and the Princess Leia shit, I didn't really learn anything new about them as characters. It didn't reveal anything, where it's like the chemistry between Duncan Nug and this. I'm like, oh, okay.

And they're only like a couple scenes together. It's not even that much. But by the time you get to the end, and they're watching the star go over, and he turns over, and you're like, I want nine Csies, I want this forever. It's crazy how, like, quickly it worked.

Yeah. I mean, look, like for me, looking, all of this stuff has gotten so gigantic. All of these stories are so large, right? That, like, they don't need to, like, reintroduce us to how things go in the world. We see people, we know who they are. Like, you see somebody with antlers on, you know what that's Barathean, you know what I mean? The Apple people are going to be new for a lot of. of people. That's funny. I dig the apple people.

They did Apple puns. Apple funds were, he's right at his core. He's higher on the branch. Not the seeds out of it. So, look, it's like all of this stuff, we're talking about Star Wars, we're talking about a lot of this IP. You know what, fuck all that. Let's go, let's get back to Egg. Let's talk about who Egg is.

I don't want to have no larger state of IP storytelling questions. Fuck at all. Either worse or it doesn't. I'm not making a fucking million dollars off of it. Either the shit worse or it doesn't. Let's talk about specifically this particular cub. How is egg different as a cub than other cubs that we've seen? Let's compare egg to the other cubs.

Compare egg to Ellie, to Ellie, baby Yoda. Compare egg to Princess Leia. Well, I don't think. To some of the other. Everything is cub, cub, cub, cub. What I think is interesting is like when the Mandalorian pops off, I think the thing that made that lone wolf and cubs super interesting is that it's a celebration of the nostalgia of the world. You're like, oh, this is a Mandalorian and a Jedi. Instead of it being an old Yoda,

it's a young Yoda. Instead of being a dirty fucking Mandalorian or like Mandalorian armor like Boba Fett, it's something sleek. It is playing upon our love for this universe and the textures and the visuals of it and mish-mashing it in this scrapbook type of way. You're like, this is new, this is fun, this is great. For this type of story for this dunk and this egg, I'm like, whether you know a lot about Game of Thrones or not, they have such a chemistry because you're just like, oh, they are opposites. And all the ways there are opposites,

but what was magical is like, Egg notices something in dunk, that he's just like, there's something about this guy, even though he's massive and tall and a little simple, where it's like, that's what I've been searching for in my journey as a kid. This is what I've heard about nights.

I want to do this for him. And I was just like, oh, that's interesting to me, where it's like, to me, I would have enjoyed this, whether it was Game of Thrones or not, because I was just like, this is weird. I want to know about what these two are going to get up to. I really got a lot of, like, good dynamics that I've, I've read a lot of stories like this. I have not read these books, these Duncan Egg books, but I've read a lot of like Terry Pratchett and Lev Grossman and other authors that are like very into the ideas of not only Chivalric Nights, but like the ideas of heroism that come from a tutor that you admire, whose job you admire, maybe not the person.

but like the principles that make the job. And whatever egg sees in Dunk, it really helps that he's not stoic and mean and like gristled in a way that clearly other knights are. They're either too flashy and too arrogant or to gristled and mean. And for some reason, this boy gleams onto that. And it's likely that it's obvious, actually,

that Dunk probably sees a lot of the boy that he once was when he wanted to be a squire. You know, it's funny, I think it's pretty obvious what he sees in him. Opportunity. Possibly. Like, if, if Egg were to go to another night, a more established night, a different night. I already have a squire. Like, they already has a squire, but also, like, the squires that they're choosing from, they might not choose someone that it is.

Tiny frail. Tiny frail, not doing it. Both. At this point, you don't know his name. He's not from a special house. You have no clue what's going on. And when he's talking to Dunk, he's continuously like questioning him. But you don't look like a knight.

Yeah. Like, where are you from? What's going on? But you know what? You say you're a knight. I say I'm a squire. I'm really not one. We are two people that need each other, right?

Like, Dunk is completely incurious. He's really not. not curious. He's like, where you from? King's Landing, flea bottom, no. Yeah, like, Dump is completely incurious. Dunk doesn't really ask people questions about who they are. I mean, even just not him having to remind himself that it's Sir Dunk, like, he's like, yeah, and the kid is just like, hey, dunk, that doesn't sound like, is that right for something? Like, even Baratine is like, doesn't make any sense. So, like, he, but the person that is like incredibly curious and really in a way

teaching Dunk is Egg even in the time that we've seen even in the second time we see Egg when Dunk comes back to his camp Egg has found the camp he's fished he's cleaned everything

he's done he is incredibly capable right I would have raised your pavilion but you don't have one that scene right there is really important in them setting the terms of what they expect

out of the world. I don't need a pavilion, sitting trees, trees leak. So they do. Sometimes you got to get wet. Like, that's the way that it is. And that's like a lesson that they are going to, that they are going to share. I'm going to show you how to do things and make your world a little easier. I'm going to show you that sometimes to be out here, you have to be wet.

You have to get, be unsafe. You don't know the next thing that's going to. You don't know where your next meal is coming from. There's no one to take care of. you. Like, that's what being a night is. And doing all of what you're supposed to do as a night, despite the fact that there is no one to come along. You're not part of a great house or anything. It's about how you actually want to affect the world, whether or not you're giving anything for it or not. All Doug wants to do to all of our points is just be a part of something greater than what he is right now.

And the question is who's going to help him? But also do you think like the stuff that he promises to egg at the end was so illuminating because you start the episode and being like, well, why does he, what was it about his mentor that he liked? He just slapped him upside the head, didn't really listen to him. And then when he's like to egg, he's like, yo, this isn't a glamorous life. But you're going to be fed. You'll have a place to sleep. I'll take care of you.

You're like, oh, that's it. Like he's promising egg that you'll have a place to belong. and you'll have food in your stomach. And you might not be sitting up in a hotel looking up at a wall, but like you don't need that. You'll have what you can get for yourself and I'll help you. And that's kind of believe that that's probably what his old master told him. What?

Gave him, a place to stay, food in his belly, and a bit of a purpose. You know, I used to ask my dad stuff. And I used to ask my dad, be like, dad, be like, dad, are we going to Burger King? He'd be like, uh, turn the channel to, He just wouldn't answer. Right. Yeah.

Like, hey, dad, like, you know, didn't you say that this season was going to be the season that, or this summer was going to be the summer that we was going to all, you know, as a family, go to Disneyland? The Braves about to come on. Put on the Braves. Like, when I saw him say, didn't you say that you were going to night me? Do I get to be a night one day? He just spits? That's real. That is real to me.

Like, concentrate on fucking riding a horse. Like, I'm right here. And so, it, dunk seems to be, he's almost a subversion to me of the expectations of this world. Yeah. No, he absolutely is, and that's why I love him so much. Yeah, I mean, think about all the nights we've seen across, your House of the Dragon, Game of Thrones. They're all, like, the guy. They're the man.

And this is the first time we've seen a guy. We were weak. we have to follow, we have to love, who is not that, who is decidedly not that. He's got to literally get it out the mud. And he needs help. Yeah. Like he needs help. He's going around asking for people to help.

It's almost as if everyone can understand a search for significance in a story. Like, I am significant. Hey, I keep asking you about this person that was really, really important to me. Like, do you remember? him. Yeah. Like, do, like, overall, you will, I will only get far in this world based upon how impactful the night that raised me was. And I'm finding out at every single turn that he was not as impactful as I thought. But there's one thing that doesn't happen in the episode. You, at least for me, I don't remember, him relitivis. how important the guy is. We don't get that now in the pilot. I don't remember him going,

this nigga really wasn't shit. What am I going to do? What do you also think part of that is because when we see Dunk, this is the first time in his life where he has to make it on his own. He has to decide what a night is because it seems like, especially in the flashbacks,

I'm like, oh, this is a squire who never had to think for himself, really. He had someone to look towards where he never had to push his master on, is this story true? Is everything you're saying is true? It's just kind of like, hey, wake up, clean the horses, ride your fucking horse, shut the fuck up, go.

And now it's the first time where he's just like, oh, people are asking me follow-up questions. Or they're telling me, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I don't care. Get the fuck out of here. Right. And I'm like, oh, that's, and that's what I think is also kind of a subversion

of the lone wolf and cub thing that we usually get. is like we usually get people, we usually get the lone wolf when they're like either the best of the best at what they do. Precisely. Or they're either on the downturn. Like they're the old,

Grisseltechemy like, oh, this is a lone wolf who hasn't accomplished anything. Yeah. Right. Like, really, at this point, we don't know if Dunk could fight. Yeah.

Don't want us to be in the tournament, but we don't know that he can handle himself in the tournament. He might suck. No, they're looking at him like he's Wembe, though. They're like, damn, this one's top of him. He's tall, but he's tall, but he won't stand up straight and all of this. Look, two things so far.

One thing so far that I can say, I want to say two, but one thing so far I can say is that the performances in this are fantastic. Amazing. Your lead is fantastic. What's the cousin, the younger cousin? Oh, Raymond Fossoa. I like him. Wait, the other squire who, the other squire?

Oh, that guy is great. Love him. Apple Squire was going up against his big cousin, big cousin was, was put the fucking stems to him. I don't know who this was. I hate a homie, the gay master. I love that guy. No, that guy's great. It was disgusting, bro.

That scene was fantastic. That was hilarious. That scene was funny. Once again, no, that scene, that you, normally that guy would be an asshole. Yeah. And it turned out that when he, when he did the whole thing, and he went, I'm just fucking with you. Yeah.

That was the version of the game of Thrones. Like, this guy, is this another Ramsey Bolton? Is this another guy who just wants to... What he called? The Asthma chair chair? And you're like, and he's moved on, and Doug is still hung up on the imagery of the Asthmael chair in his head. He's like, what about a Game of Thrones world where you can actually joke? Yeah, where you can actually take the piss off of him.

But it's not only in the writing, it's also in the direction, because, like, he makes fun of his clothes and is like a knight just like that and it cuts to dunk in his green. He's got a rope as a belt. It's just so perfect the way it moves. It feels like a comedy, like it's directed as a sitcom comedy and it just works.

Do you think that, because when I watched this, I was like, oh, if people give this a chance, I feel like it's going to be refreshing. I think it's almost impossible not to fall in love with this world. But do you think at this point people expect the Game of Thrones spectacle. They expect it to be big.

Or do you feel like everyone is going to watch this? It's kind of be like, oh, fucking finally. Can I be real with you? I don't know and it really doesn't matter. Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. Because we have to ask the question, right? Like, it's Game of Thrones.

So we have to ask a question of how audiences are going to respond and react to this. Going forward for me personally, the only thing I'm going to respect, the only thing that I am going to uphold, the only thing that I am going to put my energy into is commitment to the actual story being told. I don't need nothing else to set nothing else up.

If it feels like set up, I'm going to come on here, I'm going to rip the shit to shreds. I don't give a fuck what it is. Good set up episode. And now the war really begins. I don't get the fuck what it is. You might have a set-up episode. I could see that.

Not a set up season. But if you have a set up season, a set up movie, a setup, if there's not genuine inspiration, whatever the fuck it is that you're telling, if you're not trying to do something that gets a laugh,

a tear, or a how, my fucking with it anymore. I gave people fucking five years, I think we all did, of doing great world building. And they've built a house of bullshit almost all the time.

Yeah. And I've been, I've fallen victim to hearing the X-Men theme and I falling victim to seeing oh that creature is the same creature that was in the four fucking comic book of the Vader shit that you read

I'm all I'm fresh out of fucks for all that shit. It's done it's over. It's finished. I love this type of shit forever but if I can't look at something or approach something and connect to it and feel like they really cared about what

where they really cared about where they are and what they were doing. If I don't, the Yoda of it. Yeah. If I can't get that feeling from it, I don't give a fuck.

And you'll know when that happens because people will take some chances. They'll disappoint you a little bit. They'll go in some different ways. This pilot didn't reinvent the wheel, but it had its own point of view. And it didn't, it wasn't encumbered

by our perception of Game of Thrones before this. I mean, you're talking to Mr. cynical and when I finished this episode, it was like a wave of calm. I'm like, oh, I feel like I'm in safe hands. I feel like they love this thing. They have a story to be told to your point.

They're not trying to reinvent the wheel. They're like, hey, we got a little story to tell and we're going to do it in the best way fucking possible. And I'm like, yo, it is that easy. Just barely fall in love with these characters. In the pilot, like, the pilot wasn't perfect. But by the end of it, I was just like, hey, y'all, I'm here. I'm just like, I care about the hedge knights.

I care about the fucking games. I'm like, who's the little ballhead, nigga? Like, I was just like, I love all. It's, right? And they didn't waste the character. No. Like, the ladies that he was talking to, you just get the feeling that there's a little bit more.

And you're trying to see, like, how they're going to figure, how all of these people are going to figure in the story. I got a question for you. Why are you? You've been anti-Lythkin for a long time. Yeah. Lyskin, what you mean?

We were talking about Chase Infinity, how much you hate Chase Infinity. I never said it. That's what you said. That's what you told me. You hate Chase Infinity? I don't hate Chase Infinity. But let me tell you guys what I do.

Call him be a college graduate. Let me tell you what I do have on my phone. what I have on my phone is a master list of young black biracial actresses. Okay. All right. So now we have Taylor Russell, Zendaya. Chase Infinity. Mahalo.

Okay, so I have this master list of young black byracial. There's only four of them. I don't know that to master. I think there's a lot more. Because I'm adding them as I see them. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. And these are just actresses. Just actresses. Okay. I'm adding them as I see them. Because, and I don't mean to, hey, shout out to everyone.

Yeah. Shout out to everybody. Let me tell you why I'm adding to this master list. Every time I'm watching something, and I see particularly a black female character, that character's biracial. I'm going to add it to this list. Okay.

I'm going to add it to the list. If they're biracial, not just like skin. Not just like... They got to be biracial. They got to be biracial. They got to be biracial. They got to be by racial. Because I'm starting to wonder,

I'm starting to wonder if the regular sisters... Excuse me, regular sisters. real. No. We can't do it. No, no. There's the agenda. Okay.

This is what I'm waiting. I apologize. I'm not saying that. That's what you said, though. That's what you said, though. I'm starting to wonder if there are roles for young actresses

in Hollywood that are not biracial. I'm starting to wonder. Darker skin. Darker skin. If there are roles, if we, if it is okay, y'all can get mad if y'all fucking want.

I'm looking at all of these movies and I'm seeing this these shows. So are you saying that the small agenda is? No, like, I'm not tripping, but I'm just saying. It seems like you are a little. I'm not tripping, but I would like to see Cocoa Jones and Westeroz. Does there need to be a good? I would like to see Marseille and Westeroz as well. I would like to see Chloe Bailey.

Like, I would like to see Chloe Bailey. I would like to see just, when we're talking about diversity. Yeah. How about some diversity in terms of that? And the only reason why I'm saying it is because I wrote about it this past, it's starting to become a thing. I'm starting to notice it. Okay.

This has been a thing. It's been a thing for a long time. People want to talk about it. It's not a dis. It's an observation. I want everybody to work. But when I say everybody, I mean fucking everybody. You can't just rely on Ryan Cooleger to put everybody in the fucking.

I want everybody When I say everyone, I want everyone. Now can I say this too? We get a situation where you know you got Tiana at one battle after another and motherfuckers on Twitter have been litigating that shit since it came out. So there is a level where I'm like, I wrote about it.

I'm just saying it's like... I understand that. I'm not saying that that means that you're going to agree with every performance or every role. She was great in that. But I'm not saying that you're going to agree with every performance or every role. What I'm saying is, This, if we don't have conversations about trends in Hollywood casting, storytelling, and all of that stuff, before you know it, the same thing will happen over and over and over again. So is this an evolution of their only casting, our UK brothers?

As African-Americans. Now you need a British, a British tally. So once again, it's not about being divisive. It's really not. It's about saying that in two years, we got Fred Hampton, we got everybody. Right. And there wasn't a black Harriet Tubman, all of it.

It was just like, huh. Because they say the UK brothers are a little bit more professional. They're a little bit more put together. They have a different pedigree. They be acting their asses off. How's that? I'm not saying I agree with this. I'm not saying, I've talked to black.

Look, even if that's the. the answer. See, here's a thing to what I don't understand. This is my fault. I take responsibility. You should take responsibility. Shouldn't have brought it up. This is what I don't understand. What if the answer to the question is not an answer that normally would suit me? We had one of the Hughes brothers on higher learning.

He's doing a Snoop Dog movie. Asked him, who's going to play Snoop Dog in the movie? He said some British guy, right? Probably some British guy. And then I had to push back a little bit and have the conversation about why is that happening? He gave an answer that had to do with both business and creation. He said that there's a method that happens on the stage and the immersion that some of these actors from overseas these brothers get. It's different and allows them to bring different dimensions to characters.

That, to me, is a conversation that is worth having, even if the answer to, the question of why this is happening is inconvenient? I think it's a little bullshit, but... Could be. Could be. He was... He makes the shows. So I'm interested in why he thinks that way. But if we need to have a conversation about whether or not there's a specific beauty standard or an actress is castable or if there's a way that American audiences

are not reacting, then we at least got to endeavor to have that without feeling like, by doing it in and of ourselves that we're victimizing somebody. So that's all I'm saying, but I'm keeping the master list because I noticed it. I'm going to watch all of these shows and I'm like, huh, huh, huh.

You got to add her to the list. Which one? Where's she in? So she's the, where I was getting at is she's the puppet master that Dunk was looking at. Oh shit, what's her name? Tansin Crawford.

Tanzing Crawford. Here's the thing. I got to stop it. The first mention of our sister's name can be to add it to the master list of the biracial. That's crazy. As black men,

I expect better from y'all. That's crazy. She is gorgeous. Dunk, I completely understand the behavior. He went in there. He was like, oh,

what's this? Google-wise. He said, but the last thing I will say is, like, do you also think that part of this is like, now with the squirrel agenda,

it's always a white brother going after the biracial history? That's, that's tough. Can we call it the one battle after it literally is? You don't want to talk about it. That's another reason, hold on.

I promise you, you, I don't want to talk about it. But that's another reason why they do it. A lot of these leads be white guys. Sometimes they feel like if you put them with some of the other sisters that I'm talking about, it looks like Mr. and Mrs. Loving. I mean, and they don't want to do it They want to make it a little bit more palatable For some of the audience

I'm telling you, all right We get you, yo, let's get to fucking nerds Oh my gosh And so before we get to it And you know what Y'all nigs, everybody mad at Everybody's been mad at me For the past couple of weeks over something

to rest of it. Get mad. That's how I feel. This is how I don't mean any harm What I mean is let's just talk about it Fuck it. Nobody gets mad fucking Bill Simmons almost dispensals the fucking Lakers. When we talking about real shit. Oh.

Wow. What's like, you know, it's facts. The ringer, single-handedly taken down the Lakers organization. Hey, that's crazy. Hey, make sure you all listening to Game Over on Netflix. Make sure you like that. Make sure you guys. Max Kellerman, Rich Paul, doing the best podcast in the world, baby.

Make sure y'all watch you. On the next podcast, Rich Paul is going to talk about What would have happened if Magic Johnson was traded in 1980? Who'd do that? Like, you know what I'm saying? What's wrong? It's called Rich Paul destroys the Lakers. God.

That's the name of the fucking policy. I know what this reminds me of. When they interview Catholic, Kennedy, she was awesome. Yeah, I don't know about these directors. The light was too bright. Ryan Johnson got scared. Man, she's talking to her. She's on the way up.

She's on the way out. They're going to do firemen? She's on the way out the door, and she goes, look, Ryan's the good director, but as far as this Star Wars shit, that nigga was too pussy for this. Yeah. Straight up. Straight off. They didn't have what it takes. I'll tell you straight up, we went from making, like, literally Star Wars movies.

We sent that nigga to murder mystery straight up like that. Like, he couldn't. Like, you got to have thick skin. This is the Detroit of movie making. You got to come in this bitch. You got to come in this bitch with skin. Yeah. He couldn't handle it.

You got him the fuck out of there. Now he was like, Dave Lollins, like, hey, yo, not too much on Andor. That shit was real whack. Wait till my shit drunk. You think Dave Filoni at Lucas Films, like, y'all watch that new episode of Andor? That was kind of, it was kind of me, right? You imagine. And they're watching the screeners and trying to hate me like, it's all right.

They're watching the Ivaldani. They're watching the Avaldani heist. He's kind of like, man, that's mad. Man, whatever. Asoka could have done that. Come on, man. that y'all niggas y'all niggas didn't sell no toys though

yeah we hey I want to let you he in the meetings everybody's like and or and or great a show of all time he's like I just want to let you know I got this spreadsheet

and this spreadsheet shows which shows directly benefit into toy sales and the bottom line for this company I'm just letting you all rebels y'all

y'all could get into this expensive Tony Gilroy shit when nobody uses the four and nobody can fly that shit not going to work for y'all let me tell you what's go word for y'all.

Green, kids, toys, spaceships. I promise. That's when I'm on. Him and Kathleen had a meeting every week, and each week he went in with the viewing numbers at Andrew. He said, that's what y'all doing? Wait, so do you think, like, Kathleen Kennedy on some, like, hey, yo, I saw them projections for the Mando and Grogo, y'all got this.

They're not putting this on my ledger. She's seen the future. She said, that's the thing that. She did the magic Johnson. All the things, of all the things, that's going to make her quick. That's the thing that's getting around here. Hey, all I'm saying is Star Wars. in a place where they can just have a movie that don't

at least do with them. Yeah, I mean, her name is still, if I recall correctly, her name's still going to be attached to this one and Starfighter. So she'll still be credited as a producer on that. Kathleen Kennedy has been doing this for so long. She's a legend. She's a

she's, Kathleen Kins be doing this for so long. Absolutely. Like she, did y'all watch the studio? Yes. You know the, the lady, what's her name from the studio? Catherine O'Hara. Catherine O'Hare from the studio where she is no longer ahead of the studio. However, her name, her legacy,

what she produced, what she's done, she is an indelible part of that studio forever. That's what Kathleen can't use. Is it that character based off like Amy Pascal after like she kind of got like booted out? After the Sony hacks? Yeah. Yeah, we got to look at these emails.

If that's the emails are crazy. emails was crazy, man. Not a mean. I thought it was funny. It was so funny. Like I thought it was funny. I thought it was funny. I need to see the studio.

tackle that. I want the men in black 21 Jump Street. That would have been a little fire to all. That would have been crazy. That's what the streets need. Um, oh, is are we already in nerd? Yeah, I guess we're in New News. If we're doing the day forlone thing, the thing that worries me

is I'm a guy who enjoys Dave Faloni stuff. I really love it. But the hating and or thing is something that I can't abide by. And if you're going to be the creative... Well, this was not confirmed. It's not confirmed, but it's been... Brother, allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly.

They have allegedly been whispers for months, maybe even like years, about Dave Faloni's aversion to Andor. And if you're going to be the man in charge and you hate the best thing that your studio was made in, what, how many years? Can I take the Falani style? Go, go for it. Go for it. So there's no reason to hate Andor, right? If you're a Faloni, I'm not a hater like that.

Like, so being someone that would hate on the show and try to pull back on the show and try to pull back on the of the show, completely inexcusable. However, what I will say is this. If, in fact, Dave Faloni has different reasons for not feeling as over the moon about and or as other people, meaning when you're him, right, is not just about the one project. What you have to ask yourself is this part of the storytelling sustainable,

right? is Star Wars and or, let's just be real, and or is a different universe. It's completely different. It doesn't feel like anything else that is Star Wars. It doesn't give you the feeling

of anything else that is Star Wars. It is dark. It is cynical. It is dangerous. It's basically devoid of the force. But isn't it like, maybe I don't want to interrupt you, but isn't it like the reverse

of Night of the Seven Kingdoms where like Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon are dark in Jury and if you think this story has a happy ending, then you're wrong. But 97th Kingdom is at least in one episode, we're like, oh, there's like a levity to it.

There's a lot. Like, we can see happiness for these characters. Love this conversation because there's a difference. Okay. To me, the difference is both stories, to me, okay, so 97 Kingdoms is quaint, like and or isn't. Andor is not the story and or positions itself as the story of the rebellion as it actually was,

which, whether we like it or not, is in conflict with the story of the rebellion that we got. To me, it's a blissful conflict. It's a yes and. But to some, they might think that if, in fact, Star Wars is reinvented in that way, that it can't be uninvented. I think that that's, that feels like creatively untrue to me.

The question of like sustainability of like whether or not you could make another Andor again or make tell a story in Star Wars like you did and or. I kind of feel like we should be a bit more of the moment of the stories that we want to tell because the flavors of Star Wars are all there. Like it's not like we're making a spy thriller and just giving it a Star Wars coat of paint. We want to just tell a story beginning to end and that's what Andor did. Exceedingly well. We haven't had that in Star Wars in a very long time.

I don't care what package it's in. If we get that again, that's what I want. I don't think Dave Faloni likes that too much. I want to be clear on what I'm saying. It has nothing to do with the story itself, in my opinion. It has to do with what audiences now expect to see. And you guys remember the story about like Rogue One, right? Yeah.

The executives went to see Rogue One, and they saw a cut of Rogue One, and they were like, yo, what the fuck are y'all doing? Dude, darn. Yeah. Like what the shit are y'all talking about? Like we can't do this. Like we, this is not what we do here. It would be like making a version of Game of Thrones that was PG.

If you made a version of Game of Thrones that was PG, where there was no nudity, a family-friendly version of Game of Thrones. Like, how would an audience that is used to seeing Game of Thrones exist in a certain way respond to that? If it was well done, it would be cool. but then there might be other people who are creating in that universe that will be asking the question, well, do I have to do that now?

Because if I have to do that, I can't. And Andor was so big and so redefining that there are probably a lot of creatives, not the audience, because we were looking to have something good. There probably a lot of creatives that go, this fundamentally redefines Star Wars.

And if it redefines Star Wars, is that something that's sustainable for us? What I think, when I think about this is like, if you're someone like Tony Gilroy and you comes into Faloni's house, Faloni is this prince, I think the art that we've gotten from Faloni, the stories that we got, Star War, nothing is bigger than Star Wars. He believes that there's ways to tell a Star Wars story. He's very indebted to what Lucas built. I think there's two things that you can find in that.

Is like, I think George Lucas, the real spirit of him is like, fuck it. I'm going to make the wildest shit ever. I think Volone a lot of times is like, I'm going to make the wildest version of what I think George Lucas would make. I think Tony Gilroy with Andor is just like, hey, I'm going to make a hot story. This would be a good story whether it was a Star Wars story or not. And I think it's very hard for other creators who are that invested in Star Wars

to come to it with that. Where it's like, I don't really give a fuck about Star Wars. I give a fuck about revolution and the history of revolution. And how do I get that war across screen? And how do I get spy crass? in these 70s movies and this and that and the third. If you're someone like Faloni, I'm like, we don't do that here. Like, we don't, like, that's not what we're doing.

And I think that that's a very indicative philosophy of a studio that completely backed down after the Last Jedi. That limits your creativity. It does. But that's, I think Poloni, that is more so. I think Poloni is actually true. Let me ask you a question. To what the fans want. Let me ask you a question.

Who did they back down to? The fans. The Reddit, the Reddit Warriors. So what I'm telling you is that, like, the studio by, by, and by the way, this is not me, this is not me vouching for the Faloni way. I'm not as big of Faloni guys as other people are. I think it's, it's cool, it's fun. I think when it's good, it's good, and it's never terrible, but sometimes I'm like, okay, a little thing. You have questions.

Yeah. So, but they, what happened then, which didn't happen with Andor, right? because it was easier for Andor to me to be successful than it was for The Last Jedi. The Last Jedi has fucking Luke Skywalker in it. Yeah. He does.

It does. Imagine this. Imagine the Andor puts Luke Skywalker in the movie in some kind of way. And Cassie and Andor and Luke Skywalker are running from someone and someone who's made Cassian. They've seen him.

Luke then turns around and force chokes the person out. Right? Kills the person that's seen who Kassian Andor is. He turns around and he force chokes the person out. That's a fucking fantastic scene, right? It's something you're not expecting. Turns around or he takes his lightsaber, he throws a lightsaber, cuts the guy's fucking head off.

He saves Cassian Andor's life. Cassian flies away. We see Skywalker sitting there. Luke has helped Cassian escape by killing something. someone in cold blood, people are going to lose their shit. Yeah. Because that's not what Skywalker does. And not only is that not what Skywalker's, Skywalker does, prior to Cassie and Andor,

that's not what Heroes and Star Wars did. Solo did it before he became a hero. And so like, like the, the tension is as much to you guys' point about the audience, which Dave Faloni is a part of. which is the real thing, then it is about the creatives. Because for even a grown manchild like myself, if you give me a movie with Lou Skywalker in it

and his fucking sister's in trouble and he takes his lightsaber and throws it over the thing, I'm gonna be like, wait a minute, no, I'm not. Right now, right, man, man, man. Come on, he's good. I enjoy the rumors read. I don't think Luke would do that. And then that's what you're going to litigate

for the rest of the movie at the cost of the story. we have to grow up. And we've seen what putting the shackles and the handcuffs on creatives has done. Like the bad stuff. But I also think to, I think Faloni's learned something from being in the trenches of Clone Wars, where he does the thing where it's like,

hey, yo, I'm going to give y'all a little bit of Luke. I'm going to give y'all a little bit of the stuff. But I'm going to use Asoka. I'm going to use Thorn. And I'm going to basically play with all these toys. And once I'm done with this season, once I'm done with this movie,

it's not really going to affect anything else. It's not going to really have changed anything where it's like you can watch the prequel shit and know nothing about Asoka and be good. And then when you learn about Asoka and the Clone Wars, it'll only enhance your enjoyment, but it's not necessary. If you watch Andor,

you start having questions about someone, are you like, damn, this was really what it was like? No, if you were going on? If you watch Andor, it makes Luke, Leia, and Han's journey less important. It just does. To me,

let me tell you why. To me, watching Andor to me, watching Andor to me, made Luke's story legitimately just about him. It's literally, it's a Skywalker story.

It's legitimately just. Skywalker saga. What I mean is that like, now, so Luke, so Luke is shooting and destroying the Death Star, right? He's destroying the Death Star.

You think that's about fate and providence and the force. Yeah. The force. All of that. Hell now, you know how many people have to fucking die? I think. I don't know.

But like, do you like, yeah, you can make one shot. But do you know the shit that. Sure, sure. To be able to get that. In that whole way. You know, all of this stuff. So you can have a healing moment with your father. Fucking kill your dad.

Kill his master. let's get the fuck on with it. It's people in prison that can't touch the ground. If we talk about it if we really think about it, I remember when I went back, you watched the last episode,

Andor, then you watch Rogue One and then you go into The New Hope. You kind of, I kind of do look at these guys like, all right, bro. They went in,

they actually gave up his life. They pussy! It's like, there's no other way to look. I'm like, this is some amusement part. Get these joids off my screen. I'm really You don't think Philoni

De Filoni I feel like it's like a golden age rapper like Me and a fucking gnaz You just like Hey it's so technically

Like you're just like Oh my God They're doing something That is so different You're a little sad You're like nah This was the source We're on a new

We're on a new fucking wave Of fucking doing this shit There's something else Man shout out to Dave Filoni Man The hat Big time That's a little too tight right now

Shout out to Dave Flo, let me tell you something, man. You know he can't do that. No, no, don't do that. Come on, no. Kyle, Ma, Kalamai, don't disrespect him like that. I'm not saying he can't do great. I'm saying he can't do that. He doesn't have that type of darkening his soul. He can't do Edward.

Yeah, it's not that he can't do great. He can't do that. If Star Wars is going to be that, some of the stuff doesn't even fit in it. Like, it's like, is that. why we didn't get Ben Solo. I mean, like, maybe. Like, all of this stuff to me, it looks a little corny.

It looks crazy. But if you're constantly committed to this thing of what it should be, you wouldn't get an Andor, right? No, but here's the thing. Like, Fincher, like, he gonna do what he does. And it's just like, I'm more interested

in that Star Wars, where it's just like, hey, yo, give the Tony Gilroy types. Right? Let me do that shit. Why not? Like, I think it comes in conflict with what Tony wants to do, though. What I'm saying is, I'm not speaking for myself.

I loved Andor. Right. As a matter of fact, maybe everything should be Andor. And we should see a Jedi version of that. The reality is, if that's not what you do, right? If that's not what you do and if that's not your interpretation of it, right? If Martin Scorsese was the co-head of Marvel, you'd see some conflict. Right.

Yeah, you would. You'd see some conflict. you'd see Kevin Feigy going, you know, okay, and Martin Scorsese, going, now, I want this whole movie to be about Peter Parker. It's set in Brooklyn. It's 17 hours. 17 hours long.

You're not getting the mean-trees version of Spider-Man. He's the version of Spider-Man. He might do that shit, and that shit might be crazy. The Irishman. That's a superhero? Like, Spider-Man just taking on the mom. It's a burden. It's a plane.

It's Irishman. He's barely in the fucking suit. And Kevin Feigig is going to go, yeah, that's great. Great. It has to lead into Avengers' doom. Yes. The problem,

Martin. Can we get Dr. Strange in here? So what I'm saying is, you know, it's not like I'm not vouching for Faloni. I'm not saying that whatever, but I'm saying,

Faloni's looking at this and he's going, you guys realize that that's some totally different shit. Yeah. They're like that, like, we don't do that over. Well, if we're pivoting to George R.

Martin. Speaking of people beefing. Like, that's what's happening to me in the Game of Grones universe. George R. Martin sells the property to HBO. All of these shows are coming out. Now, a big Hollywood reporter. Profile came out.

Some of the things that have been said is George R. Martin, let me quote, what did he say about Ryan Condal? The relationship is abysmal. It's worse than Rocky. It's abysmal. Ryan Condal is the showrunner of House of the Dragon. Sources also say now that the John Snow spinoff has a new writer. They're thinking of Arias Stark may be involved.

and shifting the locale to Esos. And then finally, interestingly, Agon's Conquest is either being developed by HBO as a drama series or by the Warner Bros film team as a dune-sized feature film. Just make the movie. You have to make the movie. You don't want, and we start with Agaigat. You don't want the TV series.

Just make the movie, man. Can we, I don't want to spoil it. Just make other movies, too. Do some movies. Just make the movie. I think if they're going to do TV series, it's got to be Robbins Rebellion. I don't understand why that's not on the pipeline yet.

But I don't want to, again, I'm not going to spoil Aigon's Conquest. That is a movie. It is not a TV series. There's just not enough meat on that bone for there to be, you to sit there for how many seasons and watch that happen. It's the same thing that happens every 15 pages in the book. Do you think people would go to the movie theaters for that? I think they would. I think they would.

Yeah. I think there's a spectacle involved in that story that works on the big screen that doesn't work on the small screen. Plus, they only going to have to go for three days anyway. Then they're going to put this shit on Netflix. But in your HBO, what I thought was very interesting with, it seems like Martin's relationship is icy. They don't seem like they don't talk. This is interesting, do you know why?

This is not a Faloni situation. This would be as if Faloni had an icy relationship with George fucking Lucas. That's what that would be like. And that does not happen. Well, that's assuming that George Lucas would still be involved. in any way, shape, or form with Star Wars. He was early on. But he's more or less washed his hand over now.

But understand, but understand where we are in this relationship. Right, yeah. Like, where we are in this relationship is more akin to, me, Game of Thrones comes out like 2011 or something like that. So where we are in this relationship is more akin to George Lucas still being involved enough to where he would talk with Faloni on the Clone Warriors or anything, any of that stuff. When Disney buys Star Wars, George Lucas gets all that.

money because it's like, hey, yo, this was his property. They're buying it from him. But it's also a level of like, this is ours now. We're not asking you for permission and we're not asking for it. It's $4 billion. And he was okay with that. At the time, he was okay with that. Yeah, and he was okay with that.

But I can tell you one thing, if it was two or three years before then when all this was some of the Cone Wars stuff, all of that stuff was coming out. And whatever the question is, the answer in Star Wars is what George Lucas says. Yeah. Yeah. Like how strong was Anakin Scott? Walker's supposed to be. He was going to be stronger than the empire. It just didn't happen because

he got half his body cut off. How do you know that? Lucas said it. Nobody was battling with him in that way. Lucas was they had all kinds of books. It's in the universe. People were doing all kinds of crazy, incredible, creative things. But if he

wasn't fucking with it, like his head is, his brain is the final canon. So in this, I'm interested in who thinks no distance? to anyone, because maybe one day we'll work together on something spectacular. But I'm interested in who thinks they know this world better than he does.

So my question, though, if you're reading in between the lines, I think it's less knowing the world better than he does. And more so, George R. Martin is just like, I don't give a fuck how much it costs. I don't give a fuck about this and that. This is my world. I want it this way. And I think it's

more so Ryan Conno being like, hey, yo, I'm the one talking to HBO. They're like, yeah. That's not doing it. That's a good. TV show that makes sense. That's exact. I'm like, these guys are beefing when y'all really need to be mad at HBO. Yeah, you really should be doing that.

That's where the beef is at because HBO's coming around like, hey, man, listen, we kind of sliced your budget. You know you had 10, but we only give me you eight episodes. There's a writer's jack. We put this dragon fight in the next season. And so instead of getting, like, I'm not going to spoil House of Drag season 3.

But there's supposed to be a big thing that happens of the end of season or two. That gets moved to season three. So to you talking about, speaking about setup seasons, that's what it has a been because the thing that was setting up to, had to get pushed.

And so you, and when you have, instead of having 40 episodes, you only get, what, 30, 34. I think it was eight,

it was eight episodes in the first season, then it was. No, no, it was 10 in the first season. Now it's eight, you cut six episodes off. Ryan's like,

well, I don't have, I don't have six episodes. Let me start making cuts. And Georgia's like, hey, whoa, we need this, we need this.

Like, George Armars, like, hey, yo, why did you fuse this character? Why is this locale? This, like,

We don't have the time. We don't have a budget for it is. This is the difference between your novelists and your TV people and your movie people. A novel is about what you can conceive. A television show or a movie is about what you can execute. And sometimes things fall apart because of that. Kat Stark comes back from the debt in the books. Yep.

It becomes like a lady stonehanger. We're not doing that. in the thing, like, she's gone. Like, it makes no sense narratively for, narratively for a television audience to revisit that. So I guess that actually makes more sense.

I was looking at this differently. I was looking at this like they was like throwing up neighbors and glows. I think it's more complicated. It just seemed like George R. Martin is at a point where it's like, HBO was glad that he's so involved

with a Night of the Seven Kingdoms because I'm just like, hey, yo, this budget is low, this first season. It's like, it's not that many actors. it's a couple low cows. You could be like, we can keep this contained. One is House of the Dragon, and what did they say it was per episode, 20 million per episode?

Yeah, it's nuts. I think they're a little bit like, hey, yo, Joe, George, come on, man. Big dog, come on. There was a very illuminating anecdote about the notes that they exchanged from season one to two of House of the Dragon where, like, Connell would have scripts,

and then George would give notes, and then they'd, like, be back and forth, and it was, like, starting to be collaborative, and then they just, like, weren't listening to each other. And then HBO had to be an intermediate, to be like, okay, George, you give your notes to HBO and we'll give each other's everybody's notes. And it's what you know the relationship is. And it's like, well, that's, and the notes aren't getting.

Yeah, no, they're not getting. Yeah. Also, the thing that the piece notes, and I don't know, I'm allegedly, just want to say allegedly, that condo's, what's it called, uh, Sopachanik? Spachanick, yeah, Miguel's your partner. We're working together. And then Condo, him and George Aramarine had a little thing. And Conno was like, yo, George Aramaran had a little thing.

man, Sepotnik is crazy. They push Shepotnik out. And so then now George and Brian like, at least George is like, oh, this is my man. Me and Ryan, we see it the same way. And then now Ryan pushed George out. If I was George, I will feel some type of way because I take your side.

But here's the thing, what I always say, you got to, like, you got to respect the game. Like, allegedly, but I'm like, if Ryan did some movie like that, that's what game of, that's a game of throwing. But let me tell you guys what could happen here. This is what can happen. in here.

There are three different stories in the novella. Right. So you got three guaranteed seasons of television with an 90 to 17th. But he's trying to write more. Yes. At this point, that's not.

Because we'll get there. Let, let Van, for this point. We'll get to that. So, he's trying to write more. I'm not going to send you guys on a lore dive, but you could write more. and you can get to some very interesting places, the more that you write.

Yes. Okay, you could write more. What if George R. Martin goes, you know what? Figure it to fuck out. How's that sound? He can't do that. He can't easily do that.

After the ending of Game of Thrones, he can't do that. No, no, no, no. After the ending of Game of Thrones, they can't do that. He can definitely do that. He could do it. After the end of Game of Thrones,

they can't do it. because what they did was allow television writers to try to, man, once again, shout out to everybody I did y'all best. Okay. And nobody trying to come at like we could, if they gave us the story, the whole Game of Thrones shit would take place in South Baton Rouge, like on two blocks. You move to film it. Coco Jones is like, yeah.

And nobody up here saying, Coco Jones is a son's work. Like Coco Jones, Coco Jones is a fantastically talented person that should be more, in more stuff. Agreed. But like it, it's like, it's like, that's,

so I'm not in any way saying, not hating, but I'm saying this. They saw what happens when the TV guys take over the fantasy world. They already saw it.

We saw what happened when the TV guys took over the Dune fantasy world. I like the show. What? Dude problem. That's, I don't know.

So my question, my last question on this, though, So George has the leverage to me in this fracket. He said in the profile, A, y'all can stop asking. I'm not getting another writer to help me finish these books, blah, blah, blah. He's not on his George Lucas shit. There ain't no Dave Filoni.

He's like, hey, yo, I'm the keeper of all this. It's my shit. So, rest of peace, I want him to live long. But do you think as a community, as Game of Thrones fans, we think everything that's not him is now fan fiction. If he's not involved, like if they want to continue. you that's what you're like who is you that's what it has to be in because i'm reading the article and again george armand that's the homie love him to death but what it sound like what it sounds

to me is that he went to dn d and he said here's what i'm thinking about the end of the thing and they rushed it they sold it i'm not going to act like they don't they don't have any any skin in the game that they didn't fail on their own but george r martin saw the response that we had to all the end is in character and he said yeah kate And that's probably like the biggest funniest takeaway from this where they're like basically do you know how wins the winter ends? And he's like, well, sure shit ain't going to be like what that show was?

Let me tell you something. There's one person that's the most important person in the world to me to Game of Thrones fans and getting him to finish writing the books. It was a Woody Johnson. The Jets. The Jets? The Jets owner.

That's so funny. You're so right. Jets owner, Woody Johnson. Uh-huh. is the most important person. The most powerful bad at the world to give a dress. He can't finish these novels because he is too down in the dumps.

This is 5D chess here. This is 5D chess. He can't finish. Back when he was writing the other shit, the Jets was all right. Went to back to back. The Jets was right. He was writing the other shit.

The Jets was giving him some motivation. The Jets was all right. They can't drop down to him more now. They need a quarterback. Where do they go? They need to draft. Carson Beck. No.

Maybe Carson. and bet, if they drive Carson Beck, I ain't getting that bitch. What if you get George R. Martin on the sidelines in a headset, like running plays, offensive coordinator, does that get us wins a winner?

I don't think he can call the games like that. No. I don't think he got like that. But if you guys don't know, George R.R. Martin is so into football, particularly Jets football. New York football. And they have been so putrid for a long time

that I don't think that he's had the motivation to put a pin to paper. Obviously, they go on a run. You think we get another 500 pages out of it. I think that that puts him in the headspace where he can go and dream again. That's a battery in his back. You think he's like every Sunday, he's like, all right, man, I'm a final day. Right.

Let me put some 20 pages in. No, this is my fucking done with the game of throw. At that end of the article was so depressed, he's like, yeah, I talked to, you know, Herbert about Dune and he was talking about all my God. All they wanted from me was more Dune books, and I'm tired of it. But they was like, they would pay me an astronomical sum. to write this dude money and like a fifth for the stuff I actually want to write. Hey, bro.

And he said he was tired of. He's like, I'm tired of it. He said. Yeah. Come on, bro. Look, look, you could be tired of it. That's fine. I know he's done some other stuff.

I want to shout somebody out. Go for it. Proud of this guy, man. Mm-hmm. I want to shout out Josh Trink. Oh, yeah. But that's my only, Josh Trink. Been a long time since we've mentioned him all the boy.

I know, man. Josh is doing so great. He's got stuff coming out. the whole nine and all of that. Josh is doing fantastic. He's an incredibly talented person. I want to shout out Josh Drake, man. He before was doing maybe something

that was in George Armandt, something different that George Arnmartin had done. I read it a little bit I got at the crib. The book, at least. I get all of that. You don't just want to be known for Torking? Of course not. You could rap, you could dance, you could do other movies.

I mean, guess what? He's doing literally anything else. Sometimes he doesn't want to perform your great. You're great a single. You get tired of you. Now, tell you something, whenever you go to these motherfucking shows and you go up there

and they go, we're going to perform some shit off our new hour. Get the fuck out of here. Oh, this is that discourse. We didn't come here to see that. They owe you the hits. They owe you the hits. Come on, no, no, no.

No, no. No, no. They owe you the hits. They owe you this. I only bought a ticket to see this shit. How about you get up there and fuck around? I didn't play the Sturbia. Like, I was a man. Disturbia, nigga.

Yeah. I love Disturbia. What are you talking about? Steve. You tell me that's not a hit? You tell me that's not a hit? Wait a minute. No, no, no, no, no.

You don't say disturbia is not a hit? I'm like Steve. I love the Sterevia. Wait, top three, Rihanna songs. It's not the top three. It's not the top three. It's not the top three. I love the Sturbia.

What's wrong with that? Stand on it. Stand on top of it. It's top 10 She got 15 minutes, Steve I understand She got 15 minutes You want her to play Disturbia

Just a hook Just a hook I know you gotta play the medallies I know that That's crazy That's crazy I love Disturbia What's wrong with that

What's long you want bad buddy To perform Man Boy boy boy Boy Who needs work Nothing off anti Man

Disturbia That's what the streets Need I want No No bond to read 16. Steve.

I was 17. We'll turn it up to disturb you. Well, no, I was 26. No, no. Wait. That's a wrap. All right. This week on the Ring of Verse feed.

Oh, my God. On Thursday, Buttonmash continues their coverage of Fallout Season 2. No? Talk to Thrones is back. We are back. We're going to be here every single week covering that in seven kingdoms. Our producing today. Our CT.

Shout out to CT, man. Shout out CT, man. We fuck with CT crazy. Aleas and theirs. Jay, the hardest working person at the ringer, Jay Whaley. Join me a dinner on on socials. Hashtag Joma the 7, an additional production from our Juna Ramgapawa.

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