The Ringer-Verse - ‘Agatha All Along’ and ‘The Penguin’ Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: September 20, 2024

The Boys are back to give you their impressions, literally, of HBO's and Disney+’s newest shows, ‘The Penguin’ (07:42) and ‘Agatha All Along’ (49:56), respectively. Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Jonathan Kermah, and Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Welcome into the Ring of Versus. This is, of course, the Ringer's Nexus podcast, for you for all things. Fandom, we are.

Jomi, the Explaner at Dinner on. You got questions. We got questions. Steve, the architect, Almond. The builder and tigger of things, we are, old man, Van, here, the resurgent hairline, receding resurgent hairline. We are Coke, baby Chuck, the 24-celsa,

aka the brunch haiti, aka the Vince Staples, Hayter. I like Vince Staples. Join us is the Midnight Collective, Arjuna da Wacha Ramga Pal. Allaya O'Brien-Zanaris and the chocolate drop himself

Mr. Midnight Baby Oil Jonathan Carl. Oh, no. No, no. We're not doing that. Nope. Nope. Get it out of there.

Together we are known as of the Midnight Boys. A-hoo! False and Socialist, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok for now, save Jummy's job, Jummy. Social's going great guys.

They are loving the Scott Pilgrim Drake clip. That's going crazy. went up. Yeah, man. People were like, well, he probably could be, you know, they got some similarities there. So I get into it.

But, you know, your best. You're talking about nice shop. I'm not going to say. I mean, it's obvious. What? When Scott got to, we didn't stand on the pod for a reason. When Scott got to have the mirror match at the end of the movie,

who's that for Drake? Oh, I mean, God damn, Scott Pilgrim is a good movie. The perfect movie. You know what we should do? We should do a worst hero. Draft. A worst heroes?

Oh God, that's definitely Scott. So heroes that are the worst people. Oh, yeah. So Scott Pilgrim, definitely an asshole, right? Terrible guy.

Super bad guy. Heroes that are the worst people, a worst hero. Bruce Wayne is getting drafted. Good hero, worst guy. See, the Bruce Wayne thing is interesting because it depends on the iteration of Bruce Wayne.

Bruce Wayne, that's fucking on Barbara Gordon. Terrible guy. Dark Night Bruce Wayne? kind of a good guy for the most part, right? I don't know Tower of Babel is going into the comic books when he's fucking over

the entire Justice League got files on him and shit. I like that. Oh yeah, no, that's Batman threw. What? I like that. No, because he never keeps it in the tuck.

It's always a villain pops up. He's like, look at all, I got the files. I like that. Yeah. Keep him on the time. He's running numbers on everybody.

I don't trust y'all. Why would I trust you? You got files on the min? I don't have files on the men, I don't have files on the men, I guess. Are you sure? I don't have, I definitely don't have files on the knife.

The face going to rage. I'll tell you this, though, in the player proof in my crew, we all had. Got some files. Yeah. Yows are the notes at a lot. We all had nukes on each other because we would drive each other consistently, right? We would continuously have these big insult battles. Right.

And we'd all have these tucked away. Group chat leverage. Oh, these are the atomic bombs. It's like all nations have them. It's not funny anymore. Now you got to. Yep. Nukes.

I told you how I was the story at one time. One of the members of the Midnight Boy, oh, okay. Just tell you the story real quick. One of the members of Player Proof, his father got arrested, right? And it was on the news. Oh, no. Oh, boy. Okay.

So his father got arrested is on the news. I'm at, so imagine that it's all of us, and you met these guys, all of them that's that are involved in the story. Okay. So imagine that I'm at one of my homeboys' houses. And we're sitting down and we're wide. watching TV. So in the middle of the day,

we had just left college, right? We had just left college to come back. I would pick him up and we would leave campus and go back to his house. Sometimes we will go back. I'm getting all these feelings right now with such an amazing time in my life, right?

Just be at his house chilling, doing our whole thing. And we're sitting there. It's in the middle of the day because we had just left our 10 o'clock. And we see on the news, it says, breaking news. Local, whatever, whatever,

arrested or conspiracy and bribery charges or whatever, whatever, whatever. And we're like, oh, shit. And then, you know, they show him being drug into the police station. And he's like, I got this and this and that, blah, blah, whatever. They don't want to hear what I have to say.

The whole nine, like a whole deal. And me and my friend's mother are watching this. And then all of a sudden I look over and he's not there. Right? He leaves. and they're teasing the news that's getting ready to come on in like 10 minutes. They're saying like stick around because at the top of the hour, this is going to happen. And then he comes back into the room.

And when he comes back into the room, he has a videotape. And he puts the videotape into the VCR. And I watch him. And as soon as the news starts and they go to the story about our friend's dad, he is record. Oh, no. Oh, man. You guys, no, bro. You guys, there's been talk about me exaggerating story.

I'm telling you guys straight up right now, I swear on my dad, this is one million percent true. I believe this. He presses before. And I'm watching, and I'm like, nah, man, he can't. He looks, he's like, yeah. Was this tape ever played again? It was just kept on the top. Right.

Has this been like ugly? It was just kept on the tuck. There were so many other things, you know, he'd come to you, he'd tell you stuff. You help your boy out, but you keep it on the tuck. And I don't do this with anybody else, but with them, we would go. There was a legendary trip to Memphis where we drove seven hours to Memphis, and in the car we said the most fucking vile things about each other. Sure.

The drive battle started. So you had to keep new. So I get Batman. That's the whole point. I don't know where the tape is now. Nigel, you know that you probably still got that tape. Waiting. I don't know where the tape is now because it was very funny.

Because he was, they had them and they were pulling them in. And he was like, they were grabbing them, pulling him in. He's like, they don't want to. They're not ready for the truth. They don't want you to hear what I have to say. I'm investigating several warriors and judges too. He's also my friend's mother was watching it with us. That's so crazy.

So I get Batman. I'm telling you, bro, that's why I came up different, Right, different. All right, we're now on YouTube. You can watch every Midnight Boy's House of R Talk to Throne's episode on YouTube.com backslash at Ring ofverse, like, comment, and subscribe. Prohibitoradix!

This week, the House of Rour will be giving you their deep dive on the latest episode of Rings of Power and Agatha all along. No P-in word for them, huh? I think they're doing a mid-season check-in. No club foot. Something later. Club-foot criminals.

And this Saturday, Min Edition gives you their reactions to Transformers 1, the buzz on Transformers 1. is really good. Sounds like it could be fun. Yeah, yeah. Getting forward to it. Well, on today's show,

we're looking at the season premieres of The Penguin. I don't think I'm going to use the. The Penguin? The Penguin is what I call it. Nah, it's not. He gangsta, bro.

Nah, but it's not the same. He gangsta. I mean, aside from the Purple Maserati, there's not really. He got the Purple Suit. He got the Gold Tooth. I don't know. Dug Penguin?

All right, fine. Fuck you then. And Agatha all along. Getting back into shows. Boom! All right. Spoiler for the penguin, let's go. We're getting ready to talk about the penguin.

You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right. Let's get into it. Chuck, why didn't you like it? Wait, we're not doing the midnight manifest. We're not. We just gave yourself.

Pretentice. Forget the pretense. Forget the pretense. Say it. Put the midnight manifest. As a matter of fact, put it in now.

Okay. Okay. Right. And three, two, one. All right. This is your midnight manifest for the penguin created by Lauren LaFranck

based on Matt Reeves the Batman star in Colin Farrell, Kristen Milody, and Renzi Fuliz. This first episode, the premiere is titled After Hours, directed by Craig.

So Bell, written by Lauren Le Frank. After the massive flooding that destroyed parts of Gotham, the penguin is trying to scrounge up more criminal real estate. He kills Alberto Franco, the heir to the Falcone crime family after a conversation gone wrong at its iceberg lounge, alongside his new sidekick and street youth, Victor, Cobblepot hides the Alberto's body and swears the boy to secrecy after the family tries to muscle penguin out of the drops business.

Cobblepot spends the rest of the episode trying to outmaneuver Sophia Falcone, who suspects he has something to do with him. brother's dad. Chuck, get to it. Why didn't you like it? Wait, we not? Wait, really? Okay.

Oh, all right. Come on, bro. I can't get jiggy with this shit. What? You know, I grew up in Gotham. We went to the bodega, the slush puppies.

We mixed them together. They're the greatest thing. I fucking love that. That's great. That's good shit. I want to watch the sunrise. And no, bro.

That was good. That was good. I say the name. Charles Dupin-Hawes. Charles Dupin-Hones. I like that, bro. He just fucking nailed it. Charles Dupin-Win-Hones, bro.

Nah, bro. Here's a thing. I got a lot of respect for my man Colin Farrell. Kristen Maloney's like the goat. I'd butcher her last name. Well, come on, man.

I can't watch Colin Farrell waddling around in the fat suit. for eight to have episodes like this. It's just... Guess what I'm about to say. Okay. Just, you guys guess. You agree.

I fucking loved it. All right, man. I swear to God. Hold on. Hold on. Bro, what I tell you... Nah, bro. I'll be on you.

When I tell you that there hasn't been a show in a while that scene to scene that I felt like was scripted better, moved better. was as unexpected. Industry is on right now. I like industry.

I like industry. But what I'm telling you is like when I'm watching this and seeing the scene, I really have no idea what's going to happen or how these situations are going to resolve themselves. I thought that his performance, now I'm looking at it. Maybe you could play the character too. I thought his performance, I'm just talking about the first episode here. Yeah.

Was phenomenal. I thought Falcone's daughter, who's the lady. from Yeah, also USS Calister, right? Yeah. Fantastically scary as a villain. To me, the first episode, even the way Oswald has to manipulate this world

and his standing in it, I think the arc from him being kind of middle management to going to be the big dog of this, which is where I assume we'll get at the end of this, I think it was a banger of a first episode. I'm not going to bullshit you. I fucking loved it. This is the network that Sopranos was on.

And we basically get Sopranos cosplay for an hour. And you're telling me this is one of the best. I could not disagree more. What, like, I couldn't disagree more. Let's get the men boys in here right now. I was actually, I'm more on Vans team. I really enjoyed the first episode. I think what was interesting to me was

he has the meeting with Joel from Miss Maisel and I'm left to think like oh maybe you know it's important like okay they'll figure out and he shoots him and then it just starts snowballing from there right like that's how the plot goes and I'm like I like it I like how Oswald was trying to maneuver

his way I have some questions about like his thought process but ultimately it seems kind of successful and so I'm very interesting to see where this narrative is going to take us how Oswald gets from being middle management to being like the penguin. I'm very intrigued. I don't think it was very like, not like poorly illustrated, but I wasn't really sure of how

like actually low to middling penguin's position was when we saw the Batman. And then now it's like, oh, he's actually like really not that high up at all. And to know that he has to dig himself out of even worse than when he started. at the end of the Batman, this is like a very interesting start to what a crime drama can be as a lead-in to this next movie. I think we all agree that

we kind of love what Colin Farrell did in both the movie and this. Well, I mean, he just disappears, right? I mean, it's the makeup, it's the entire thing. It's just like, if you didn't know that was Colin Farrell, you'd be like, oh, who is that? When we saw that Colin Farrell was going to be the penguin in the Batman,

you're like, what? Why? Like, what does he have to do? And like, especially in this where I'm like, oh, he's just doing something that's like really atypical for him and atypical for what we see in, I think the types of crime shows that are like, again, we miss it. Like you, like the Sopranos is like the easy comp that we keep hearing in like both the reviews for the entirety of the season and for, you know, the fact that it's on HBO. I'm curious as to think that like if there's any other sort of like middle ground,

I'm not willing to go that far yet to say that it's as good as the Sopranos, nor will I probably ever. But I'm curious to think that, like, if we can get something like this, could this be, like, Batman's Andor moment? I mean, look, the Sopranos and Andor, how about this?

How about we try to do something right now on... Team exercise. Team exercise. Team exercise. How about we attempt to do this? Okay. How about we attempt to judge this show in its capacity of the world that it's in

that Reeves and other guys created for the Batman. Let's forget about Breaking Bad. Let's forget about the Sopranos. Let's forget about even Andor. Even though I like the fact, I think that's a good comparison in terms of for the superhero world,

this being something that's more grounded that wanes into the grime of Gotham, kind of like Andor did, And elevates the material, actually. Right, right. So I like that. But let's, because to me, this is my thing. I'm watching the show, the penguin, I'm turning it on,

and I never thought that I would be watching a solo show about Oswald Cobbopad. Because he's not the type of character. His name's not Oswald Cobapod. Whatever. Os Cobb. Os Cob. It's like, it's not the type of character that you care that much about in order to ground. and carry his on show.

And you're watching it, and there's not a reason to turn from it. As a matter of fact, in almost every scene, they get right to me the sort of underlying drama and tension, fantastic performance

by Colin Farrell, that you need to stay on top of it. Right away, he kills someone, he shoots somebody, it's a very important person, the sister shows up, The kid sees it. Every single scene

means something. Nothing is wasted. You learn something about the characters every time the camera is on all the way to the end. This guy has all of these people figure it out that are more powerful than him. Eventually this person,

this, this character has to be somebody that can match wits with Batman. So really, this eight, episode arc is proof of concept that this penguin will be a worthy adversary for the smartest most well-resourced guy in Goth. And it's also, we have our history with the penguin, at least in the character as

it's many iterations before, that like he's a character that acts out of impulsivity and insecurity. And that's perfectly put on display in this very first episode. Like, a guy makes fun of him and he just shoots him. And he doesn't even realize that it's the one guy that you really shouldn't be shooting. Well, he does realize. He doesn't realize. He doesn't.

He does realize. It's way too late. Yeah. But even that was different, though. So normally you look at penguin and you call him fat or you call him a penguin and you call him short or whatever and he shoots you. This guy actually, Falcone's son, he didn't even, he threatened penguins' view of things. Yeah. He didn't even so much.

It wasn't like, hey, you water or whatever, whatever like that. You make sense it. And then you shoot him. He threatened. The very thing that Penguin wants and holds most sacred, which is the way that old school gangster was looked at. He said everything that you want and everything that you respect is bullshit. Yeah.

And he didn't realize how that was going to make him feel. He actually made him feel small, same with the other penguin would feel, in a different way. Yeah. So it's the same character, but it's new. It's different. It's not relying on any. of the old tropes, I think

it works, and I think it deepens to me the world that they're trying to create with the Batman. Yeah. Troves? Anything you're going to say? I want to participate? No, y'all got this. Got it. Cool. So we'll move on.

We're talking to you about Agatha, by the way. So I like, the characters, the characters, okay, who did you like in it? Victor, right? Like, Victor, you know, they're trying to jack his... No? No. Okay. Br, it's just like, we got to keep it a buck.

I'm supposed to believe that Penguin is smart enough to go up against Batman, but he fucks up, leaves his car out there, the kids are stealing it. He's just like, all right, you're going to help me move this body. I'm going to kill you. No, I'm not going to kill you. Let me introduce you to my mom. I'm like, what? No, this doesn't make any sense.

And also, I'm going to be honest. I just, there are parts in the first episode where I get it. These two characters are together because they have special needs. One has a messed up foot. The other one stutters. And there's a moment when they're on the subway and they look down at a handicapped seat and they're like, nah, we ain't going to sit there. And I'm like, is this what we doing? Is this what all this shit has come to?

Like, it got to be this obvious. I don't know. Come on, bro. This is what y'all fucking with? Man, give me a beat. Uh, yo. That nigga Charles is fucking miserable. I am.

That nigga Charles. It's down in the dumps. In the dumps. That nigga Charles. Charles. It's fucking miserable. Miserable. That nigga Charles.

needs a fucking smile why don't you put some and or on for him why don't you put some anime on for him why don't you put some other shit on for him because that nigga Charles he's out of here

and we out that's good you drop you don't even see it when you weren't there because you you dating too many people we're not talking about

every time we asked Charles to do something is like I got to date on a Saturday I got to three days Every time we asked Charles, Man, Charles nasty, bro. Every time, like, every time we ask Charles to do something, Charles doing different, like, all kinds of shit.

Like, I got to take a girl to a pottery class. I'm going roller skating in the valley. I'm going, I'm going, Burr watching. I was eating. I was at a nice stick dinner. I was, not a date. I'm going bird watching with this chick that I just met. It's weird.

So, we were having fun together, and me and Jomi were freestyling at the house. Remember? Also, no, this is what upsets me. Y'all invite me literally the day before. Not true. No, that is true. You do, like, their plans are made, like.

Plans are made. I'm just like, I already have something. What do you want? You know what? You know what the reality is? Jomi met Daniel Kulia. And? Jomey met damson interests.

Jomey was dancing with Paris Hilton. Wait, what? That's not. You were dancing. I would have heard about this. This is a lot. This is a lot. This is a lie.

Don't worry. Hey, all I'm saying is, did this actually happen? What? All I'm saying, all I'm saying is Jomey is getting in there. Okay. Jomi, like,

Jomey, because Jomey is part of the family, there's some things happening. Jomey, Jomey is. He has motion. Jomey is getting motion in the town. Right.

With people. Okay. Like Jomey, who want Jomey around. The rest of y'all can't be bothered. And it's going to cost you. You too. Don't do that.

Don't do that. Don't do me. I know. I'll be texting you and I don't get the response. I'm not. No. The rest of you. The rest of y'all, the invite people last minute.

Yes. Last year. That's not how it goes, man. And it's going to cost you. You, you, five, five years from now. You get it 20 hours before. Five years from now. I get it 30 minutes before like, yo, where are you at?

Five years from now. Five years from now. Jomey's going to be in Deadline magazine like this. Like, they're going to be like, the Asians of Shill reboot. Coming back. Executive producer, Jomey and Dinner on. Jomey's going to be like this. Y'all don't want to fuck around.

It's cool. Y'all can't be bothered. That's great. I don't know how we got here. How? Yeah. So, I don't think. Let's think about that scene, right?

I think the scene is to illustrate, like, I, yeah, it's kind of weird. I don't like. I know, I get what the scene is trying to do. But I was like, all, man. It's not weird, bro. It's a. Hey, you know what? That's how Charles feels.

That's how it feels. I recognize it too. I didn't think it was that big of a deal. That's how Charles feels. So everybody, get off. That's how Charles feels. The whole shit. No, no, no. I really, I just, I do feel like as the midnight boys, I get it.

You know, the three of you are generally more positive than I am. That's fine. We all have a role to play on this show. Like, well, come on. Y'all can't tell me walking here and be like, yo, we're really excited for the penguin. That show, that first, I swear, bro, I promise you. and I went in thinking that they had gassed it. The first episode was legitimately great to me.

I'm not saying it's the greatest pilot I've ever seen before in my life, but I'm like, oh my God, I want to see what happens in episode two. Like the first episode was legitimately great to me. I guess, and I will talk about this. Can you catch your question? Yes. What would, let's do this. What would the show have had to do for a Penguin show,

a show that you weren't high on going into, because you're asking, like, why do we need a penguin show? And I think that's a fair assessment. I think a lot of people felt that way. What would the show have had to do? Or what does the show have to do? Because there's only one episode to make you say you're interested in it and it deserves to exist.

So I think what was interesting about the Batman is that when Colin Farrell comes into that movie, it's like a shot of adrenaline and electricity just because you have this very over-the-top comedic performance in a very, very, very dower film. I thought Colin Farrell was very, very good in that. What the TV show has to kind of illustrate is not only why does this character deserve eight hours of my time, but also can you take a character that was the comedic relief and can be over the top because he does not have to be at the center of the frame?

Can this character hold my attention and not basically be a parody of a gangster? And I think what I, at least in my watching of the first episode, I'm like, oh, this character was really, really effective in a small dose. And then over the course of like 50 minutes, I'm starting to feel like the portrayal of the character. I'm just like, it's a little cartoony. And I know that the penguin is a very cartoony character. Sure.

But it seems like what, how do you say her last name? Kristen, I don't want to keep butchering it. Melodi? Melodi, yeah. Melodi? She's doing a wonderful job as well. I just think that there are very, like, over-the-top cartoonish moment in a very very,

what Matt Reeves made a very grounded, dour realistic world and having those things have not mesh. I can't take, if we're comparing this just to like the genre of like gangster movies or whatever, I can't take it seriously because it's like, what the fucker drops?

Like I know that they were in the Batman movie, but I'm like, this is HBO. And because it's tied to this Batman mythos, instead of dealing with the show, like in the wire, they do a very, very good job illustrating this is what, these are real drugs. This is what the drugs mean to this community.

Here are the people who are buying them. Here are the people who are selling them. And in this, it's just like, there's drops. And now we got some new kind of drops that Oz wants. And I'm like, what is that? It's like cartoonish. So it's called it cocaine. That would have worked or like heroin?

No, if I'm saying right now, I do feel like if you're on HBO because they have a history of this, I do think that if there's going to be a show about like gangs and moving up with them and crime and drugs or whatever, you need to make it feel like realistic versus right now which is just kind of like

it's gone book bullshit and I'm just like I don't think it's kind of straddling the line as best it can because like drops and the entire like inherent silliness of a place like Gotham being the worst and most dour place in the world

with like a rampant drug problem and crime that's like you know it's embedded in kind of silly inherently and the penguin is a little silly anyway and they try to grow it as best they can. That Matt Reeves Batman movie, he does not, the way he positioned

that and even watching it, he doesn't think itself. I understand. But the show takes itself seriously enough to where I think there's anything silly about the show. No, no, I mean the idea that there's a guy called the penguin and he waddles around like a bird, like the idea that those characters can transfer over

to anything resembling realistic is like there's going to be a suspension misbelief that you have to have. So are you saying that in this, because the wire has a character like Bubbles. And Bubbles is the primary way through which we see. And just comparing this show to the wire,

it's just like so nuts. I just want to put that out of it. Right. No, no, no. But just, but just, but just, but let's just go there, though, because I think it's interesting. So bubbles is the,

the way that we see how the drug epidemic has ravaged the human, being in the wire. Bubbles is actually activated in season one of the wire against the Barksdale organization, obviously because his homeboy is fucked up and you see the cost that the attic and how that average person can affect all of this. And also, you know, Bubbles is one and only people that comes out of that five season are clean.

Would you have one of the character like that that's like that's using drops or just kind of Did you want more about showing how drops ravaged Gotham? Like, what are you talking about? Oh, I more so mean that I, like, the reason that you bring up the wire Sopranos is not because that's what this show is trying to be. It's just saying that like now that this went from a Mac show to an HBO show, I can point to other shows like that. You've even brought up Breaking Bad.

And I can point to them like, this is what this show is trying to do, whether it's like, this is trying to show you the psyche of a mobster. And we are going to peel. this is going to be a very cerebral show. Or we're going to show you like a show about how the structures of this city, whether it be the drug structures, the government or whatever, is literally eroding away. Same thing with breaking.

Like, you know what it's about. When I watch The Penguin, I'm just like, and once again, it only has one episode. I'm like, what is this show trying to tell me about anything? What is it trying to tell me about the drug trade in Gotham? What is it trying to tell him? Yeah. About the idea.

It's more of a character. Hold on, hold on, hold on, yeah, you're, you're, it's, it's not about any of that. Because it's about him. What is he trying to tell me about the penguin, though? What it's, what it's trying to tell you about the penguin, I'm not, I want to answer for the creators of the show. It's trying to tell you that if I'm just judging by the first episode, the penguin is up against it. Yes. Right.

His, it's trying, the, the show is trying to demonstrate that this, uh, character, that his resourcefulness, his guile, even the scene. with his mother, right? When he walks in there to his mother and he starts complaining to her and when he starts complaining to her, she's, listen to say, are you a pussy boy? She's like, no, you're not a pussy. That was crazy.

She's not pussy. You're my strong son. The show is building the penguin that we know. It's not about Gotham. It's not about all of these forces around him are putting pressure on him to make the diamond that the character will be at the end of the eight

episodes. If it doesn't get you on that, then the show won't get you. But I think my problem with this, and this is my problem a lot when you start stretching IP so far, which is that's more interesting when Batman is in the frame because we have something to put.

It's the same thing with the Joker movies where you have something where it's like, oh, Bruce was rich. And Bruce comes from like a family, and this is what he decides to do with his life versus the penguin, who you're like comes from less, builds himself up,

and you see that. on the screen. And even in the comics, I'm like, I don't know if the penguin is interesting enough or has enough to say as a character where I'm just like, oh, I want to see Colin Farrell turn into the penguin we know. I'm like, who's the penguin we know?

Did you want to see that from Cassie and Andor? I think that, I'll be honest. I think that that's a different thing because A, for Cassie and Andor, I'll be honest, in the beginning, I didn't. But what the show actually did win me over is. I'm like, this is a show like we were saying about structures. This is about a show about,

the world of Star Wars in a way we've never seen it, where it's like, we're going to teach you about this planet in this culture or what the prison industrial complex is like in the empire where it's like, I don't think this show is interested in that. To your point, I think you are correct. It's interesting in like, this is how he becomes the penguin. And I'm like, the penguin isn't that interesting of a character,

especially when Batman's not around. So it's just very hard for me to like have anything to hold on to. Were you entertained by the show? No. Okay. I definitely was. I was definitely entertained by the show. What do we find the most entertaining

about the first episode? Outside of just the charisma bomb that is Colin Farrell's performance, I really kind of like what we're going to be leading into with the dynamic between him and Sophia because there's obviously a lot of history there and they already come into one another with like a big,

gripe. Like, you murdered my brother, and we already have this, like, added history of, like, kind of wanting to emulate the better parts of, you know, what crime means in this city and being the lesser subservience of more powerful people now that we have a step up to the plate, what are we going to do with it? I like that. I think that that's going to be probably, like, the crux of this entire show. I think the interesting thing for me is how he's going to play the Moronies and the Falcons, you know, like, he goes. He goes. goes to prison and he sees Clancy Brown. Shout out Clancy Brown still getting word.

Nice Clancy Brown. Great. You know what I mean? And he gives him the ring. In my head, I'm like, hmm, why don't you do that? But it's a setup, right? Because at the end of the episode, Joel's missing his pinky where he kept the ring on. You know what I'm saying?

So how he plays him against each other and how Sophia gets evolved like that entire, that entire world, that's art. I'm interested to see where I know. So, you know, it's funny? So do you remember Justice League? Yes. Where the movie of the show. Animated show?

The movie. I know we've all tried to forget. Yeah, yeah. There's one good scene in Justice League. Well, there's a couple of good scenes, honestly. Are there? It's a couple of good scenes. I can't wait to hear this.

But there's one really good scene in Justice League that was well written where Superman is going berserk after he comes back to life. And he's like, Cal L, no. Cal, don't do it. You can't do nothing with this motherfucker. Yeah, yeah, no. I did like when the flash was trying to sneak up on him And he's funny And he sees him through the speed force

And then he's like, uh He's like, well, we don't talk about the flash No we don't. But um My worst moment But um It's just funny part Like the Superman goes berserk

Y'all can't do shit Just fucking run Yeah But Batman goes It's time to bring out the big guns Right? And you think it's going to be Cryptonite

or something else or people thought that Shazam was going to fly in or something like that and it was Lois Lane. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, yeah. No.

That's good. That's well written. I forgot about that. Yeah. Hold on. No, that was all right. That was all right. I don't give a fuck what y'all said.

Because, because, like, it was played terribly, but like the idea of that is. No, I'm a million percent serious. Because, let me tell you why that. What did you say that night? That was good to me. The reason why that was good to me is because that's something that Batman would do. I'm telling you.

That's something that Batman would do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hell no, no. That's in the file. No, no, no. That's in the file. He's not wrong, but I just remember, I think it was before that scene. He gets knocked to a cop car and then one of the bystanders like, you're all right, man.

He's on his back. I'm too old. That movie was dumb as hell, bro. Oh, Batman? Yeah. The movie is stupid. But listen, the reason why that scene works for me is because I'll, always say it and it's maybe it's misogyny.

But Superman's, uh, weakness is not kryptonite. His weakness is Lois Lane. His weakness is literally, it's not. Well, his biggest weakness is not,

we'll say. His weakness isn't that. His weakness is that he cares about people. So you can make Superman stop doing what he, in the very first Superman, I don't think you understand superheroes very well. No, I'm serious. I'm serious because in the very first Superman,

In the very first Superman, Lex Luthor does something to Superman that is very easy to do. He says, he says, I am going to send a nuclear bomb to destroy the eastern seaboard. Right? I'm going to shoot two nuclear bombs. One is going to destroy the eastern seaboard. One is going to go to the desert. That's what Lois is. Superman does something stupid in the movie, turn the world back.

But Superman's deal is that he has to make the right decision. So he has got to fly to save the most people. So you can always manipulate him. This is every superhero though. Not really. Yes. The sticks are different. Not really.

Yeah, because here's the thing. The whole thing about superheroes is, how do you hurt a superhero? Most of them are invulnerable. You hurt the people closest to him. Right. This is essentially what the Avengers were arguing about. You see what I'm saying? Like this, it's, it's, it's, you think it was, but with enough superheroes, this is essentially

what they were arguing about. What the Avengers were arguing about was their responsibility to people versus their responsibility to themselves, right? This is, this is what they were arguing about. Superman is this on like even more so, like way, way, way more. in the back to the penguin in the penguin episode when they keep when they when when when Bruce Wayne says i'm going to bring out the big guns you're like oh my god Bruce Wayne's actual superpower is that he understands people's pressure points and he understands not his strengths but their weaknesses that's his actual superpower we talked about this before it's not that Superman has just understand what he can do what I

I can do this, I can move this, I can punch this, I can do that. Bruce Wayne understands what you can't do. And then he uses that. When he pulls out the ring, I'm thinking in this situation, is he just going to get up and walk away and be insulted by this guy? He goes, no, he very matter of factly goes, oh, here's this right here. And the whole energy changes. Yeah.

This guy now thinks, this guy who didn't have any estimation for this man, was talking down to him, was fucking over him, was completely looking at him, was completely looking past him now wonders how in the fuck did you do that now every single situation the penguin leaves every scene he leaves from somebody he leaves them off balance he leaves them in a

situation where they're like what the fuck yeah and it's and it's what we end on yeah it's like every time he's like like how did he do that how did he do that but the pressure builds for him to do that all the way up through the entire till the last time because he's literally getting tortured to death

At first it's small. At first he has to talk his way out of the situation with the Falcone guy. Then he kills him. The pressure ratches it up, ratches up a little bit. Then it's his sister. Then she's on to him. Then he gets the, and it just keeps getting until the end where the only thing standing between him and death is his ability to prey on all of these people.

You see her scream, and you see him smile. She's now weak and he's now strong. And you're wondering if he can keep that up throughout the rest of the seven or eight episodes. He's just diverting pressure from himself to these other things. And that's his superpower. Like that's his. Sophia mentions it, right?

It's like you're so good at talking your way out of stuff. Like that's your entire thing is your charm. For a guy who looks like you, how do you continue to talk your way out of these situations? Doesn't make sense to her. And yet he does it. Right. Not only does it, he talks, he plays them against each other.

Now we just kind of got to see who is going to survive, like his rise. I honestly, I'm doing so much work for the show. Y'all don't think that I know somebody on it. I don't. I honestly didn't think they could make me care about it and didn't think they could write it that way. It's very impressive because, again, like, again, I hate to compare it to Andor, but it's the fact that we get a character that we were like, okay, he was good in this, but like, did we really need something like this to not only prove that it's worth its existence,

but actually worth something even more. Like, that can be impressive. And it's only, it's nowhere to go but up. Tell you guys right now, episode two, we're gonna, Charles gonna love it because they got Damien Wayne in it. I heard that too. We don't know that.

We haven't seen anything. We don't know this, actually. This is not true. You guys, this is not screener game. You have to watch the P-1 episode two. Timothy Shalameh as Damiener. Absolutely not. I'm gonna be real.

I'm not watching the next episode. I might be taken off. All right. We'll do it. We'll do it. Hey, you know what? This is what we're going to do. We're going to give,

you have to come to work because we need you for the midnight boys. We should have him with like a little white board. But like, but like we could also do what's something called a Charles opt-out. Oh. Where Charles is just,

Charles becomes the Spliff Star. Y'all know who Splift Star is? Yeah, yeah. It's a Buster's guy. What? What is the fuck I'm talking about? All right. Steve, that's the fuck do you know.

Spliff star, but you don't know Chief Keith Mawuckin' 22 G's. Like, it's a patchwork. Like, it's so funny, bro. I did not think that you were known. These aren't no Steve old. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Like, flip-host. My nigga, he's sneaky old.

Dipset. Sneaky old, bro. He's sneaky old. Sneaky old. He's, you're sneaky old. I am sneaky old. No, no, no, no, no. Don't say it like you're okay with it. Because you're not. I mean, I got to have to be okay with it. At your fucking prom, brother.

You know what I'm saying? You know 22. and bust this guy, but you don't know five civil rights leaders? Okay, all right. Again, I approve this. Of, like, black dog, we should do a black American history according to Steve. Just see, like, what's important. What lines I can draw?

This is a great episode. So we got worse heroes draft. Right. We got to do that. And then we just got to do the Steve quiz. Now, this is what we're going to do. That was a nervous laugh. Of course it was.

That's like all of my laughs here. So this is what we're going to do. Okay. we're going to have a Steve quiz and we're going to we're going to curate the Steve quiz and we're going to make up like what we expect from Steve.

Okay. First of all, how many questions should the quiz be? 20, 25. I think 2025. Yeah, 225. Let's do 25. And we're going to base this on proficiency.

It's like the Wonderlich test for the NFL. Is it not time? Is it divided by like? No, no time. Are we doing sections? Like, there's going to be a culture section, politics, like black history. Trivia, trivia pursuit.

Yeah. We're going to make up this whole deal. Okay. And then we're going to grade you whether or not you are first, second, third, fourth, or fifth round white boy. Okay. And what I want people to do, we're going to come up with the questions. And then I want people to think about what, how Steve will score. And we're going to make sure, because I'm going to be honest with you.

I think. You're going to be stronger than people think that you would. Because the Spliff Star thing, I appreciate that. I can't believe it. You can't believe that I knew who Spliff Star was? No, bro. What fucking was? Spliff Star is somewhere right now like, yeah, me.

I fucking matter. I was at the Missy concert. Yeah, he came out. Yeah. You were at the Missy concert? Yeah. See what I'm saying? It was the best concert I ever been to.

Do you know what is Steve be doing all the black activities? He's not around for? You know he was doing it for the love. He's like, I don't even need my boys here and will see me do this. Except learning about our history. So I really do think that Steve, I really do think that Steve will fucking kill the culture section, kill the music section, kill the actor section. Remember the Joy LaFord situation. Kill that.

I think he's going to struggle with history. Yeah. And I think if I wanted to, I could give him a list of things that black people invented and he would just get fucking destroyed. Right. Right. Nobody knows that. Like Arjuna, who invented peanut butter? I saw, whoa.

Wait, wait, wait. Whoa, what that is good. You see what I'm saying? I know what a black man in vitipita. You can't do that. Whoa, hold on. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

See what the fuck I'm talking about, bro? Hey, man, bro. That's, Chris. I see what I'm saying? Alain. Who had been to peanut butter? I know. What's his name?

What's his name? What's his name? Oh, y'all. Piquin butter. Who had been to Google it? No. Who have been to Google it? You know what?

Like who invented it? By the way, he didn't just invent peanut butter. Technically he didn't, but he did, but he kind of did. He invented all different types of things to do with the peanut.

He was a lagoon wizard. Yeah. And did he also, wasn't he irresponsible for what's the thing when you, like, moving the crops and shit? What? What?

Didn't he invent that? Crop circulation? Am I fucking? Circulation? He was talking about. He invented a crop circle. He was one of the greatest inventors of all time. Come on, GWC, man.

GWC. Wait, where did you all go to school? Public school? Oh, they didn't teach you about it. No shot they talked you about that. Yeah, man. That's kind of a... Steve, who invented a peanut butter?

George Washington. You Googled that. Did you Google it? I know you Googled it. I know he googled. There's some controversy about whether or not he actually invented peanut butter, but he perfected the peanut butter situation. Didn't you, like, manufacturing, like, popular, like, sell it?

The nigger was peanut obsessed. Yeah. Like, he was, he loved peanuts. You know what I'm saying? Allergic people, like, the bane of their existence. Also, did you also know, this is the other one that, like, they all try to hit you with? You know, Super Soaker. Super Soaker.

Yeah. NASA engineer. Black man. Black man. Super Soaker. But, like, look, Granville Woods, all the different types of people and stuff like that. We're actually doing a movie about Granville Woods. Only problem is the nigger was seven feet tall and it's hard to find.

Seven feet tall? He was seven feet tall. He was the dude who played a saw to use. The dude who played a Kareen. Oh, yeah, yeah. He was like, he was like seven feet tall. Wait, y'all can't hire someone who like six foot and just, by the way you shoot. Put him on a full apple, you know?

Kind of, right. Put some lifts in. Put some lifts in, something like that, you know. Well, yeah, also, this is totally our butt while we're talking about, like, height. Dog, I did not realize how height-phobic or not even height-phobic the dating pool was. Because, like, some of my sisters, when they talk about, like, I didn't realize five, ten. is quite literally out there was just like, I can't do five-nine.

I'm like, I'll hurt. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We are not this podcast. No, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is not what we do. This is not wrong. Hey, wait a second. I want to break this out because I have a question.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I do have a question. I do have a question. I do have a question. You guys, I'm six foot four. I don't have that problem, okay? But, but, but I, I do have a question about this. When did this start?

Yeah. And I'll tell. you the height thing, and I'll tell you why, because I made a list of the hottest guys of the 90s in, in, like 510 and under. No, no, no, no, no. But it was guys on there, Tupac. Like, DmX. DmX wasn't on the list. Wait, how short is DMX?

Dmx wasn't six feet tall. Damn, that's because. Tupac was 5'9. Yeah. Five, nine isn't it short. I'm not short. I'm not saying it's short, but what I'm saying is, when I look back of this list of guys in the 90s, It wasn't a bunch of guys on there that was like over six feet tall.

It was some of them. I'm wondering when did the height thing for the ladies start to where, because I'm looking back at some of the old heart drops. And not all of these guys was like six foot two, six foot three, six foot. But here's the thing. It's social media because in a magazine, we were seeing them on MTV. I thought DMX was six foot. Just because you just see him and you like, he acts like he said.

Look how tall X was. Like, yeah, but what's your answer to my dad? But so I just think, I think now with IG and shit, it's like... 511. I mean, so that's, I mean, he's right there. But what I'm saying is... But no, here's the thing. People are like, yeah, can you really mark...

Like, you're like, he's 511. Sometimes I'm just like, nigga, I don't know. I'm just saying, I do feel like this is one of those things. Once again, I'm not hating on anybody. I've been... I was six feet tall when I was in the eighth grade. So, but what I'm saying is, I do feel like this is like one of those internet narratives.

Yeah. that has like mutated itself and now become something that people are now told that they're supposed to expect. Like the whole thing, like I can't date a man unless he makes $150,000, $200,000 a year.

Oh God, that's the whole thing. Like that whole, I think these are starting to become that type of podcast. Yeah, we can't do that. Yeah, we can't do that. No, actually, we bring it back. It's not a disc. I'm just saying, if we bring it back, though,

to the penguin, my man needed an alibi and Shottie was looking at him like, Mm-hmm. You five, I can't. Shut. I can't give you that. Oh, my.

What? Shut up. Nigging, you too short to come around here asking for an alibi. She was black, though. He did. Some penguin down, man. But I have to, you not like them. You're not like them.

He went down. No, we're not that type of podcast. We're not. We're not. Wow, black queens. God. Brug, penguin down. He's not like them niggas from England.

Like, what? Hey. We got to go to have a good pod, bruh, bruh, we got to go to a pod, bro. We got to go to a little break. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business.

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Don't miss Sol de Janado's limited edition perfume mist collection only at Sephora. All right. Time for Agatha. Spoiler. We're getting ready to talk about Agatha all I love. You're listening

to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. Midnight Manifest, Chuck. All right. These are Midnight Manifest, for Aktha all along, created by Jack Schaefer, star, and Catherine, uh, Catherine Han, Aubrey Plaza, Joe Locke. Two episodes seekest thou road, circle sown with fate unlocked thy hidden gate. The first is directed and written by Schaefer, and the second

is directed by Schaefer, but written by Laura, uh, Donnie. We get an extended mayor of Easttown true crime parody as Agatha wakes up as a police officer solving the crime of a murdered woman in the woods. Over the course of the episode, it's revealed Agatha is still under Wanda spell from Wanda Vision with the help of a mysterious boy and Aubrey Playa. Agatha wakes up and no longer has their magic. Agatha spends the next episode getting a cup of witches together so they can go on a trip to the road, which will grant all of their witch. Witches.

Which wishes? Which wishes? Okay. Agatha, Charles. No, no, no, let's not. Okay. Don't put me in the hot seat first. I want to know what you thought.

I liked it. The first episode was really good. Okay. The second episode was less so, but still good. Yeah. I okay So The first episode of the show made me realize

What an achievement Wanda Vision actually was okay Obviously it was very reminiscent of Wanda Vision In that they went back to the television show format And they had Agatha Inside of a TV show Procedural Look

This is the only thing I can ask for From the MCU Especially with characters That we don't know that well And that we don't have as deep of a comic connection to. The only thing I can ask for is inventiveness and intrigue. Those were the two most important things that Wanda Vision needed to do.

There were a couple of scares in there towards the end, and it got me there. I did not know what was happening. Figured it out towards the end and what they were trying to do and they were trying to bring her out of the spell. And it set the tone for what could be a really fun look into a different side of Marvel.

I liked it. It was funny. It's a little sexy. It was kooky. And Catherine Hahn was great in it. Yeah, I'd agree. Catherine Hahn, I think Catherine Hahn, especially in the second episode,

that's why I feel like the second episode was better than the first one. Gotcha. She's like, you know, doing the Maryland East Town thing, which is like fine, great actress. But when she's like leaning into being Agatha,

I think she was at her best. But I think the show, it's got a little heat to it. Like a little heat to it. Like a little heat where I'm, I'm like, I'm, I'm interested to see what goes on. Remember, like, they're doing the whole singing thing, going to the thing, they're going on the road.

They're going on the road. They're going to see where that goes. I'm trying to remember her name. Deborah Joe Rupp is her name. Yeah. When they're doing the thing and she's, like, lip singing, like, I thought her, she was really fun. And that role, I think, like, you know, two episodes in, I agree, like, it needs to be intriguing and it needs to be inventive.

I think so far it's done just enough to keep, to keep me into ready to, it's kept me interested to see where it goes, like, episode three, episode four. There's a lot of fun to be had here. You can very much tell that Catherine Hahn is loving being this character, and she's very, very, very good. I think that it passes all of my, like, it ticks all my boxes for, like, what I think could make a decent Marvel show, because a very charismatic performance, like a decent little mystery that we're going to be solving and kind of like getting a team together. of, you know, rag-tag witches, and I think it could be fun.

Like, Catherine On's really funny in that second episode. I think that Jomey and I found ourselves laughing, like, at some, like, very interesting digs at, like, Gwyneth Paltrow. That was the jade egg joint. The jade egg joint was, like, really funny. That was funny. Yeah, like, there's fun to be had here. They're striking the right court.

Yes, they are. I really can't fault it for that. It's an Agatha Harkner show that I'm going to be really honest. I don't know who acts for it. You know what I mean? Like, I'll kind of agree with Charlesville. I'm like, okay, maybe Marvel's a little high on its own supply. They give Agatha Harkness a show.

I think they're high on Catherine Hahn. Sure, which who wouldn't be? Sure. Like, yeah, I guess. The Agatha all along song was a big deal. And I think that the character was sort of a breakout star for sure. From the first show. Did that mean that right away we were clamoring for her to get her own show?

No, but I do think the show has shown some promise in its first. Yeah, yeah. That's ultimately. my poem was going to go where it's like, I wasn't the first one, but like, yeah,

we need an Ag on the Harkner show, let's go. But so far these first two episodes, I think it's done enough to be like, okay, cool. Like, let's see where this goes. Let's see where we end up, like halfway through or,

you know, somewhat. And then we can re-evaluate, all right, did we actually need this? But so far, so good. Also, horny marple's back.

Dude, I thought they were going to kiss. Yeah, I thought they were going to kiss. Between Arbubbis Plaza and. Ain't nothing wrong with it, baby. All right.

There's something wrong with that. He didn't have to go there, man. We didn't have to say something about Arby Plaza. Aubrey Plaza got that heat. No, she's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of charisma coming off. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Charisma's not a, don't, don't.

No, no, okay, fine, massive sex appeal. Aubrey, she got that heat. Man. What is it? Like, you know, what is it about Aubrey Plaza? She got that heat. One time I saw Aubrey Plaza, and she was in this video,

and she was playing pickup basketball at a WNBA game after the game was over on the court? No, no, no, she tore ACO during the All-Star weekend. Celebrity game, yeah. See, that's attractive. She came out of D-23 with like a cane and a brace. Well, that's attractive to bust your ACL on the basketball court. I don't know, she got that heat.

And by the way, if you go on, if you go and date like a white girl, that's the kind of white girl that you go for, right? Puerto Rican. Is she Puerto Rican? Yes. I didn't know that Wait, are you Are you back-checking Jome?

You back-checking Jome right now. I didn't know that. But now I can see it, though. Oh, my God. That's crazy. Because you don't see it at first, and then when you know it, that's Aubrey from the block.

You know what I'm saying? Stop. Relax. Hey, come on, bro. Damn, that's crazy. Charles. The paternal grandfather. was born in

her. Okay, shout out to her. What? But she's not, but she's, there's a, she's a mix of things. Okay, she's a mix of things. I'm looking at it right now. Because she did her 23 and me and she's 31% of it.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. It's her Instagram page. I understand. This information is, okay. It's public. Come on. It's public knowledge.

Okay. I'm proud. I'll read. My bad. Like, it's, it's, mom, I'm saying is, she, you know, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, you know, she's, she's, she does. Yes, she does. Charles, why didn't you like it? Why are we even, like, I will just say, let's do it, let's do it, let's do it, let's do something real quick.

Yeah. Tell us why you didn't like it with great enthusiasm. With great enthusiasm. You're great enthusiasm. I'm tired, bro. I just just, just. These shows tired me out. Nick, they tuck a boy out.

Nick, they bring the enthusiasm to the podcast. Just like, tell, like, say, tell us. Tell us why you liked it, but like it was the shit. Like, give us, give us the energy. I can't. Charles. Charles. Charles.

Charles. Charles. Charles. Charles. Charles. This is like my own nightmare. Charles. Are you saying that Aubrey Plaza on that couch?

You know, didn't have the movie. The thing, I already know what Faggy and Coe were doing. Because when Aubrey was there, I was like, damn, is that I can think pretty good? I didn't think. Oh, okay. So when she saunter's in the door, she's FBI, oh, the feds are here because it's out of her jurisdiction. And she goes, you can be in control.

I'm like, oh, oh, oh. I'm like, man, let me text Omar real quick. Because I'm like, this ain't right. What I'm feeling isn't correct, man, that's not. I'm for the sisters. You know what I'm saying? But she, Aubrey, Aubrey got it. Yeah, yeah.

I just, I will say, if I'm being fair, I think just this is not the hallmark movie Disney Channel tweeness of this is just not my bag which is okay so I have to be like it's just that's not my thing if I'm being fair

but if I was just judging it I think this does have my issue I think with both the penguin and Agatha and I get that we're just in a different place in Hollywood is that if you can get talented actors or actresses like Colin Farrell or Catherine Hahn or Aubrey Plaza to do stuff like this

there does become a point where I'm like, what emotional investment culturally is there in Agatha or in the penguin for these stories to exist? Because it's like part of IP, if we're just going to be honest about superhero storytelling, is that I have some type of connection to these characters, whether it's your Batman, even a Captain America. I wasn't reading Captain America. But it's like I saw him in The Avengers. I have something.

There's history. There's a story there. With Agatha, I'm just going to be honest. this. I've never read a comic where I was just like, damn, this Agatha shit hitting. So this show was going to have to do a very, very, it's a hard task. And I think on top of that with Wanda Vision, and back in the day, we would have gotten multiple seasons of Wanda Vision for me to fall in love with this world, to fall in love with the neighbors. And then after two or three seasons, once you get an Agatha spin off, it would have made sense because this was a world. Now we're at this

point where I was kind of watching this and I'm like, this is kind of like a Wanda Vision sequel without any of the characters or like moments from that that would make this feel more vital. It's only been two episodes, but let me ask you a question. Why do you think they want to play those characters? The Colin Farrells and the Catherine Hans and the people like that, why do you think they want to play them? Money? So you think it's only money?

I don't think it's only, I think if this is this, if this is primarily the stuff that's getting made, where it's like. Like, would we have gotten it an original Colin Farrell gangster TV show or an original Catherine Hahn-Witt show? In 2024, probably not. So I think they're just like, let me, I won't, I'm not going to speak for them. Well, you did. You did. So Colin Farrell has a show on Apple called Sugar. So you, so you.

Isn't that more of a like a noir type? But what I'm saying is he can do whatever he wants, right? So the same year that he did The Batman He was talking about it on the panel He did the banshees of So he doesn't have to play the penguin No I'm not saying that he has

I know so what I'm saying is he doesn't have to play the penguin Like he's got This is with your friend Sugar is one of the Simon shows Yeah so he's got shows right Yeah so funny Is I had somebody else Call me and ask me

To ask somebody else what Colin Farrell's availability would be for next year because they wanted him for something different, right? So he can do whatever he wants. The question is, why did he do the penguin? The question is why did Catherine Hahn? And I do think that for her, maybe the financial is a little bit more of an incentive

because that character has the opportunity to, and I can't speak for Catherine Hahn, by the way, because that character has an opportunity to carry on to multiple shows and movies and all of that, stuff like that. Maybe she wants that, and she also maybe doesn't have a signature character right now. But I also think that people challenge themselves

in different ways. And there is a specific challenge to do something that saturates pop culture in such a direct way. And actors want that. I think they want the opportunity to kind of bring.

And it's also a role that really plays to a lot of her very distinct strengths in a major way. Her musicals theater strengths, her comedy chops, and it's something

that everybody will watch. So I don't know if it's, it's for him, he said it very directly. They had to sell them on playing the penguin. They had to sell them on playing the penguin. It's the makeup. They had to sell them on doing it.

It was a challenge for him. It was a challenge for both of them. So there's an IP portion of it. But when we're talking about why these things get made, there's also a part of this, and obviously it's not when you've paid Captain America for the 7th, 30th time. There's also a part of this that, you know,

actors take on different challenges and people take on different things and different roles for a lot of different reasons. I think Agatha is significantly less artistically ambitious than the penguin is. But I do think it's a role that she loves to play and that she wants to embody in a major way. So I don't even think Catherine is like bad as Agatha. Like in both of these shows, like I see performances and I see what they're trying to do. But there is a level if I'm like being real.

How many people wake up in the morning and are just like, it's the thing that I want to create right now is an Agatha show. And that's not me, like, being like... What an odd question. No, what I mean is I'm just like, there are, I do think in, like, Hollywood, there are certain characters in this pool, whether it is your, like, Batman's or Avengers or Fantastic Four, where you could be like, not only from the audience side, but from, like, directors and writers are just like, oh, I grew up really, really loving these characters.

There's so many stories I want to tell in this world where it's like with Agatha, they got there, obviously, after Wanda Vision and after the show. Yeah. But there is a level of it's like, because it's tied to the MCU, I'm like, this show isn't really scary enough to be horror. And it's not necessarily like magical enough to be interesting. It's like all of these things in one. But it like it's a, it's a jack of all trades at least for the first two episodes where I'm like, it's not that scary. The magical stuff to me is not that interesting.

And it doesn't have necessarily the inventiveness of Wanda Vision where it's like, oh, you can tell. baked into Wanda Vision is like, we're going to skewer these moments of TV history where in this they're like, all right, the first episode is our like true detective mayor of East Town send up and then immediately it becomes like this weird like, all right, we're getting this band of Coven Witches together

and I'm like, what is the show? Wanda Vision at least I like, I was like, oh, this is the type of story they're trying to tell. This seems like it's stuck in between a bunch of differences. Well, again, I think only, two episodes proving that I think that this first episode is kind of just like a wink and a nod to what Wanda Vision was and the fact

that she's still trapped under this old spell that now died out when Monde de Maximov is no now longer with us and now it kind of just becomes a road trip movie or like this kind of like adventure of just like okay bring these witches and outcasts together we'll see what we can make out of this and I think that

for the idea of like if there are enough people that either ask for this or wake up one morning wanting to make it I think the is actually enough because A of the fact that it was made but B like they clearly saw what Catherine Hump was doing in Wanda Vision and for three years later

still had the resounding answer like yeah we want to revisit that. We want to like there's something there that we actually think that we can do. And I think for the first few episodes like we got a little something here. There's fun. I enjoy it. There's fun. There's intrigue. I think

I don't know man. The question of who is teen? Who is, oh my God, who is team? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, yeah. Gasp! Oh, no, like, that's, like, I don't think that's, like, a mystery we're going to hold on to. I don't think that's for us. Exactly, right?

I think that's for Kalika, who's like, wait a minute, why are they saying his name? I think a lot of things. I don't think that's for us. Go ahead. That's not for us. But the question of, like, who wakes up, want to make an agatha's the show? You know what I mean? Like, that kind of inspiration comes, comes from anywhere.

Yeah. You know what I mean? People watch shows, they watch movies, they find themselves attached to some, like, characters, whatever, and they have the ability to, like, come up with, like, a show for Agatha that's even remotely interesting. Honestly, it's kind of a success because, again, who does care? Yeah. To think that there would be even a remotely interesting version of a Agatha Harkness show, a probably D-List comic book character before this show, Wanda V-Lis. Like, F-List character for WandaVision to show up. and, like, kind of take the world by storm for a second.

Yeah, like, that's kind of a miracle. You guys ever heard of a show called Perfect Strangers? Oh, wait, yeah. What was the... Balky? Yeah. So, did you know that Family Matters is a spinoff of Perfect Strangers? Yes.

Okay. Yes. We have the same fun and everything. Why would you make a show about the elevator lady or whatever she was and family matters? Like, why would you make it? Like, why did you want to bring up? I did that one of eight seasons. Oh, Perfect Strangers was that shit.

I know, yeah. Balky was my motherfucker. Stand it. Yeah, but here's a thing, like, whether Cheers, Fraser, all these things, you used to get these shows where it's like, what's the cliche thing everybody says about TV shows? People turn into them because you want to hang out with your, you want to hang out with your people.

We hung out with the Wanda Vision characters for like one season. So it's like they're bringing, they're touching upon a bunch of stuff in Wanda Vy Vision where I'm like, I didn't really have that much of an emotional investment in, in this town. A lot of people loved Agatha. Right. But no, no, no. You can't. Love the song, too.

No, no, no. It was a big deal for the time that it was popping. But what I'm saying is that show, Wanda Vision came out five years ago? 20-21. Yeah, so what, four years ago? Three years. So we got one season of that. Now we're back with Agatha.

I'm just saying that, like, in this new model, I'm just like, what am I? I was watching it. And I was like, you're judging, you're judging a TV show. based on a old TV show model when this is the Marvel model, where, like, it's kind of just been iterated upon. The Marvel model. Let's do something real quick to. Let's not get too bogged down into this,

and let's give the show its due. Like, that we're covering. Okay, so what does the show have to do to be successful? I think just kind of ride these, like, kind of fun vibes from what Agatha, like, brought over from Wanda Vision and clearly in these first two episodes. It has. I think if it's a fun, spooky-ish adventure with, like, crazy witch characters and maybe a fun little cameo or two.

Like, that's fine. We came out of the trenches of secret invasion. I'm really not asking for much. Like, we're doing okay. We're doing okay? Yeah. With Agatha, yes, I will say that. We're doing all right.

Doing okay. I mean, I... You find a secret invasion level suck? Absolutely. Okay. No. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Absolutely. When Agatha has a flexed Drax arm, then maybe we'll have that talk. But no. No, but if we're talking about what he needs is successful. Yeah, fucking chill. There is a level of, like, yo, we're between secret invasion, echo this. I'm like. Okay, what is this?

What does this show have to do to be successful? I mean, it's clearly a Catholic Han vehicle. She's doing great so far. So she has to bring it. Yes, if she continues to bring it, if, uh, Aubrey Pazel continues to bring it, if they like, because I think. you know, they, the episode, episode two ends with our, on the road.

Whatever, I assume at the end of the road is all the friends you made along the way, you know, some type of, like, nonsense. But if they can, if that group dynamic works going forward and we see Catherine Hondura stuff, I'm, I'm there. Or she just ups and kills them. Who knows? Are we, are we going to get enough Aubrey Plaza

because it doesn't seem like she's going to be in the show a whole bunch? I feel like, she's only the first episode. She'll at least be bookended, for sure. Yeah. You don't bill her like that. Aubrey's booked and busy, you know? Now, there is the chance that as this show moves forward, I mean, obviously, but as this show moves forward, that we devolve a little bit into some CGI madness.

I could see it coming. To me, I think the show has to establish itself and the weight of its own narrative without resorting to Marvel tricks. And let's be honest, not a lot of these shows have been able to do that. Sure. But again, but also with the thing that we have said before

is that more than a few of these shows have started pretty strong or at least started like intriguingly enough. I guess my whole thing is, if I'm being honest, right now it feels like especially with these Disney Plus Marvel shows where at this point where I feel like I'm the last person on a sinking ship where could I give Agatha all along to just somebody be like, hey, the new Marvel show is out? Like, it seems like we're kind of in a bubble where nobody wants to say like the quiet part out loud, which is like, dog, we are watching a fucking Agatha all along show and the buzz on this and the penguin could not be lower.

And it's just like, I mean, people are gassing the penguin. Who? Like, everybody. I don't, nigga, you, why you be it? Yeah, you're not. Yeah, you're pretending. You pretend. He's pretending.

People are acting like the people, people, people are acting like the. Penguin is the Godfather part six. Yeah. Everywhere you go. I was, I was, I was a little like Charles when I was watching the penguin, I was like, this shit not going to be that good. Then he shot that motherfucker. Yeah.

And I was like, oh, shit. We buzzing the motherfucking in Gleke? Fannie like. Vanny won't wait. Okay. So, um, it, look, the buzz is down. Not not not the penguin buzz is crazy But yeah

They're gas in the pain The penguin buzz is crazy The buzz is down However I don't know how that actually Uh relates to the quality of the shows themselves I think superhero media Itself is in a very precarious situation

And I think that everyone is aware of that Now I will say this You know We've talked about For some reason people are going back to the movies people going to see every movie that comes out, they're going to see it's big time. A lot of money.

Even though, you know, people were apparently whipped and chained to do animation on Inside Out 2. It's the people... Oh, right, bro. People still made... People still... It's still made a ton of money. Next year is obviously a big year

for the superhero movie. I do think that it's incumbent upon people, maybe not you, Charles. To... If you're going to watch the show, watch the show. Don't watch the show in the context of Marvel and how dope Marvel is or how whack Marvel is because there were whack Marvel products that you probably gave a little bit of a pass to because of when Marvel was cooking.

And then there are going to be dope Marvel products that you probably don't talk enough about because Marvel is in a slump. And everyone who's a little bit objective would agree that Marvel has been in somewhat of a slump. Sure. somewhat of a So I guess someone like me Can what's the last

Marvel Disney Plus show that we can point to that I would say would be like I'm trusting where they're going with this process There's almost none They're in the midst of a course correction

like as we record this Wait wait wait wait wait wait You don't oh I'm sorry Steve Go ahead no it's because like literally We were talking about this at the At the event the other day Where we're like okay like the next thing after this is Daredevil.

Like, and if there isn't something that isn't like a surefire bet that it will at least be successful, it's going to be Daredevil. And they had to scrap an entire first season of that because they didn't like it. Eight, nine episodes had to get rid of them? They just stopped and then did it again. They got that money. Yeah. But that's the thing.

Like, they're clearly operating and like, all right, like, what we've been doing before is not working and we got to do something different. Well, I mean, we also like enjoy Loki season, like both seasons of Loki. Yeah, but it was. I would say Loki season two was a step down from season. It was like... It was good, though. So this is what I would say.

This is what I'll say. Nobody at this point owes Marvel to the benefit of the doubt. Don't need to shoot them anyway. Like, no one owes Marvel to benefit it out. But if you're going to watch the show, I think it would be fair not to watch this show in the context of past failures. That's why I told you. I was like, if I was being fair, I was just like, this, the show that, like, I

was presented also stylistically is just not for me. Like I like Catherine Hahn as a performer. Once the witches started singing, I'm just like this just not. You don't like hocus pocus? No, I love hocus pocus. But here's the thing. I love hocus pocus because it's 90 minutes. It's a movie.

Eight hours, it is shit. I'm like, all right, right, right. You're going to disrespect Patti of Lepone? You like practical magic? Put the lime in the coconut. Show is like 30 minutes. Practical magic is an insane movie. I only saw that for the first time like last year.

Yeah, practical magic is stupid. It's great, though. You like it? Yeah, I think it's fun. That's the white witches. How come black witches never get a show? Okay. I want more black witches.

Twitches. Like, what's Twitches? Twitches. Well, that was the T and Tamara. You don't know about no switches. I don't fuck with Twitch is like that. 2005? What was this?

It's a DECOM. It's a DECOM. Nah, I'm not fucking with that. You got an acronym for that now? Like, come on. You can just say. So Twitch is, I never. I never.

There was a show that was out for a little while about a black family that had supernatural powers. Wait. It was a show that was out for a second. I think it's what we talked about before. I think they're going to do too many church sermons on it if it's in a black community with the witches and stuff. I think it's not going to go over.

No, but here's also the problem is whenever they give black people magical powers, it's always tied back to slavery. They always in the South, they're like, yeah, your first witch was a slave, was a slave and he freed himself with magic. And I'm like,

all right, can we just give him wands and shit? I'll have to tell you about this horror movie treatment. That's a J.K. Rowling.

Is it? Because Charles is right. He is. So this is horror movie treatment I had one time about, about these people. It's about these black people, right?

And they essentially are in the town that my dad grew up in. They can't leave the town. They're super rich. Oh? They're ridiculously rich. And they've been rich.

since slavery times, they can't leave the town because they put a magical binding spell on the town. And there's like a big fucking hulking, like ex-slave demon that protects them. So they're like, okay, so look. Wait, protects them? So look. Yeah. So they're super rich. Okay.

They're sugar cane farmers. But they don't ever travel. And a family comes, they never leave the town. A family of modern day. modern day. Okay. A white documentary film crew comes to do a documentary on them and ask them how they were able to establish their sugar cane farm back in the day on all of that stuff and how they

were able to do all of this and like not be attacked by white races in the Ku Klux Klan, but it's because there's actually like a gollum, like a hulking thing that protects them. And so when races come through, it's like a Bermuda triangle for them. They've killed them all up and all the white people around. and respect them. And they can't leave. They can't leave. If they leave, they lose the protection of this thing.

And they would rather stay in the town than be subjected to the racism of the world. As long as they stay in there, they can't, they can't fucking. A little twilight zoney. Yeah. And so, like, the, the fucking demon detects racism in white people's hearts. And it confused it. It kills you. And so there was one guy that was on the film crew that had made an inward joke on the way out of day.

and he gets his fucking head ripped off. And the whole thing. And so look, I wrote the treatment that we're pitching it around and we're doing all this. This is really interesting, but I don't know if we want a slave horror movie like when it's a guy, he's like, it pulls me to the time my marriage he goes, man, you're not going to get very far into town.

Killing dozens of white people over slavery in every movie with rich black people. And he's not going to get it. It's not a good pitch. Let's just move on from this project. I'm gonna get that bitch made. I love the words, let's move on from this project.

Oh my God, do you know how many times I've heard that? Oh, I'm sure. Hey, man, let's move on from this project. That's what I told the dude for Black Art Design.

Black, let's move on from this project. We out. Let's move on for this project. People say that all the time. Yeah, yeah. Because if your management's good, they'll pitch you out a couple of times.

Is that what Charles is going to say when he doesn't like a show? Let's move on from this project. He can't say it, though. Charles, like, Charles, would you like a opt-out from these two shows? you don't have to watch them, but you still have to come here

and be part of the vibes. Honestly, here's a thing. I'm gonna be honest. You get one opt out of year. Either the big one or, no, no, here's a thing.

You get one opt out of year. But you have to still come here and you have to guess what happened. You have to still take part in the fucking podcast. Oh yeah, yeah, I would have one opt out of year. If y'all gave me an opt out once a year,

if we could bundle these two shows, I'd be the most positive motherfucker. Like, you gotta be like, what happened to him? Like, I would bring donuts, burritos, I'd be like... Okay. So this is what we're going to do.

This is what we're going to do. Oh, my God. Charles, you're granted to opt out with Agatha and... However, we have to make up a Charles quiz. A Charles. And based upon our descriptions of the show, you have to guess what's happened in the show. That's fair. Because if you're going to be this critical of story, we got to see if you know where story goes.

But also, this is going to add to his intrigue. We were like, wait a minute. So-and-so showed up? Yeah. And you're like, you missed that. Hey, no one in. Whoa, whoa, whoa. If Robert Bass didn't, there's no one in Bengua who can show up.

Hey, we're going to make shit up. You know, like, we have no. You have no. It's like, we're going to say all the guys. You know, like Zoe Kravis. Christopher Williams. Oh, my, like, Zoe Kravis. Hey, bro, did you see the episode of Penguin where Catwoman has to work in the strip club

and Zoe Kravish does a 15 minutes strip club? See, all right. To bands and make a dance. Like, I'm going to say all day. Walk in a catwoman series. A strip club, Catwoman series will go. But Strat Woman running a strip club in Blood Haven. Like, bro.

With Aubrey Plaza. Stop. Let's move on from this project, please. No! I'm going to make the fucking movie. Okay. I'm going to, like, I'm going to say that was the... If we're ending on a positive note,

Doug, Aubrey Plaza wanted to fuck some Catherine Hahn up in them scenes. Bro, I was like, stop with the eyes, bro. She got the eyes. The way she was, I was like, come on. See, now, me, I'm going to take my feet. Come on, girl. That's how y'all know I'm down because, you know, I thought she was a white girl and I was feeling a little not good. But it turned out she's Puerto Rican, so it's all good.

You know what I'm saying? Not for Umar, but it's, I can feel the, I can feel the Latina. You know what I'm saying? Smoldering. I feel like the sisters are going to beat up on you. Let's move off for this project. Let's move on from this project. And nothing, end it.

Shut up. We're talking about you love her. I know you not. I do. You love her. I do. love I mean you should have seen him yesterday are you just are you just seen him yeah bricked up were y'all bricked up

you y'all bricked up again no y'all bricked up again you y'all what you did you see what right now he definitely bricked up bro how many times are y'all are you seen the next the one i was they were they ripped up joamy cut a hole in this popcorn bucket like stop it it's like it's like how many times right every time we go to the el capy tan That's why we don't go with y'all. Every time we go to the El Capitan, y'all get bricked up in the theater. I'm going to be honest.

They do a puppet show before the movies. Oh, stop it. That's a wrap. This week, the House of R will give you their deep dive on the latest episode of Rings of Power and Agatha all along. And on Saturday, Middiction gives you their reactions to Transformers 1.

How exciting. Be fun. Yeah, it's fun. When you guys are seeing it? Seeing it tonight. Seeing it tonight? Yeah. No what that means, Charles.

Oh, my God. Oh, duh. No, it's at the Grove. We're not doing that there. Robots in disguise. We only get hard at the L-Camp, Steve? That's crazy. That's where they be showing the children's movies.

That's crazy. Curramping not like us. That's a creepy-ass shit. That's Disney, bro. That's, come on. Steve, that's Disney, bro. Come on, man. This is why they don't be letting us when we like,

hey, can we get a screener? Or they like, not for the midnight. That's Disney. God. Damn, bro. That's Disney, dog. Our producers are Steve the freaky motherfucker almond. Jonathan Midnight

chocolate dropped Kerma. Aleo, O'Brien, and Nairus. Jomi to explain their dinner on on social. El Jomi Lada? hashtag El Jomi El Lada. Oh, the, the bank or from the Batman. Oh, right, Alada. Oh, yeah.

Additional production from Arjuna Round Capal. Chuck, please take us out. Shout out our Puerto Rican princesses. Stop. Penguin is the man. And if you're getting bricked up, you can only do it at the hell, capitan.

We don't do that at the grove. Why would you say that? I don't do that at the grove. If Kendrick Lamar, and you can put, you can like record this, if Kendrick Lamar had made little homies, have you heard little homies before? if Kendrick Lamar had made little homies

niggas will be talking about little homies was the greatest song of the year that song is crazy Charles you're not reacting to any of this why he did because this is he probably hate on he probably hate on Vince but if if hate on who probably hate on Vince Staples yeah all right if you hate Vince Staples

I don't hate Vince Staples I don't hate Vince I don't hate Vince Staples but I'm telling you right now North Sileong Beach like I love Doug I love these songs but Also, like, it's Vince Staples. Like, Vince Staples isn't Kendrick Lamar. I don't even think he wants to be Kendra Kumar. No, no, no.

I'm not saying that he wants to be Kendrick Lamar. Uh-huh. What I'm saying is Vince Staples consistently puts out the hardest, best, introspective work. Yeah, he's great. He's fucking great. And that song, right there. Wait, are we talking about a two-fay? That song?

No, no, no, no. Little homies. Life hard, but I go harder. Mm-hmm. You ever heard that record? Don't crash out. I like, no, it's a fake. It's the fact that like

that Kendrick Lamar hasn't had like a big big, big hit or something like... All right, we're not going to start. No, I'm saying no, wait, wait, no. I'm saying in the sense that like people like... Stevie ruined it. I'm asking. So Kendrick Lamar hasn't had a hit that people danced to.

No, I'm asking if people like had if he had more mainstream hits rather than anything that came out on morale. No, he had, he had... So it was good, maybe. Like, like, like, when dam... Swimming pools? Yeah, he had...

Mollongfugs was shaking ass to swimming pools for some reason. That's a god for right. But it's the fact that like... A guy hit... It's probably his biggest popular. though. Yeah. Yeah, but guys, he had the Black Panther joint, he had all of damn.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm not saying, I'm not, first of all, you guys, please don't put me in a situation where the misperching of Kendrick is happening because if you bespurch right now, that's fucking, right, yeah, yeah, you're done. I'm not saying it all. What I'm saying is I listen to little homies every day.

I listen to Evan Staples all the time and to me, it's like, there's just certain artists that, for whatever reason, and continue to drop, like Vince Staples. Dochi just came out, right? That's your heart. That's fucking fantastic music.

Yeah. And it's just like, all right. I had to turn a record off. You guys turn it, dochi off? What? It's just not for me. It's not bad. It's not for me.

I'm not. It's not for you.