The Ringer-Verse - 'Agatha All Along' Episode 3 Reactions and Revisiting ‘Joker’ | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

The Boys are back, with the exception of Charles “Opt-outimus Prime,” to give you their thoughts on the latest episode of Disney+’s ‘Agatha All Along’ (12:25). Then everyone joins in to discuss ‘Joker’ in anticipation of the sequel next week (42:18). Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Jonathan Kermah, and Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Welcome into the Rearverse. This is, of course, the Reiger's Nexus podcast fee for all things fandom. We are. Jomey thex player at Deron.

You've got questions. He's got answers. We are. Steve, the architect, almond, the builder, a tinker of things. We are old man van. He of the receding resurgent hairline, a cowboy van. Aieha, motherfucker. We are.

What are? You just can't start adding your own thing. Making up your own nicknames. You can't give yourself a nickname. I can't make up my own nicknames. that's the only thing I'm good for on this podcast. No, you can make our nickname. You can't make your own nickname.

Yeah, that's a little. Yes, it is. That's fraudulent, bro. I made up old man van. Yeah. I mean, we, you guys call me old, and then I call myself old man van. I'm good at making up nickname. We didn't call you the cowboy, though.

But I can call myself that. You guys are what you guys are saying so toxic. So I have to submit. You're the toxic police. I have to submit to what you guys say about me, but I don't have my own autonomy. You're not letting that gestate and, like, grow into something. You're just like, boom, this is what I am.

You're trying to call somebody toxic. It's like Eric Adams trying to call somebody corrupt. Yeah, you don't know. That's all allegations. Anyway, allegedly, allegedly. The 24-caron closer. He's on opt-out today. We are also joined by the Midnight Collective,

Alea O'Brien's and there's. Alea, I got to tell you something. I was in New York. This past Saturday. Oh, it's happening. Oh, it's locked down. And I was hanging out with my friend Tommy Alter and somebody else. Hovey?

Mr. Dylan O'Brien was hanging out with us. Shout off to Dylan. And I just want to let you know, Alaya. All right. Things might be happening. He knows. Be ready. Hold on.

That sounds like a threat. Did you? That's not. Did you discuss that you've been calling me Alea O'Brien to Dylan O'Brien? Yeah, just be ready. Okay, so I have to kill myself. Thank you so much. No, please do not.

Okay, listen, first of the deal, you're a giddy schoolgirlness is the one that gave it away. You like them. I'm trying to hook you up. I try to give all of you guys what you want. And all I get is, criticize, criticize, criticize. Hooked someone else name. Adjuna da Wacha Ramgapal and the chocolate drop himself missed it midnight. Oil slick.

You can't do that. It's not in this environment. No, what? Oil slick is crazy. What? What's the wrong? No, we don't know. What's the difference?

What you mean what's the difference? No. What's a difference? Let me ask you a question. I think about it for like two seconds. Wait, wait, wait, wait. What's a difference? Bro.

You know the difference. You know the difference. You know the difference. Don't make me. You know, let's move on. We don't have to move on. We talked about it earlier. I don't know.

I was all the two guys to know. We talked about it early. Hold on. Before we get to it. Before we get to it. And we are the midnight boys. Let's get to it. Hello, Ringiverse fans.

I regret to inform you that due to the initiation of Deep Shaddle Protocol, this bit had to be edited out of the pod. I know. I'm just as disappointed as you are. Thanks as always for listening. And the Midnight Boys, Poo Poo! We'll get back to you shortly. This is the ringers and Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom.

Falls on socials. Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok for now. Save Jeremy Jummi Jop. Jummi. Arjuna was trying to explain something to us about TikTok and they don't do music anymore. What do you mean? You don't know what the fuck's going on.

They used to, right? A universal, like they had a whole music thing where they took off a whole bunch of music, but they put the music back on. No, you're wrong. Okay, somebody made a point, that's not what we're talking about. Somebody made a point about you, and I'm going to call it out right now.

You got the nickname the explainer earlier on. I don't explain anything. Not anymore. We're going to have to give you every single week an opportunity to regain that nickname. All right? Or else we're replacing it with Jomey the Milk Merch of the Dender Room. That's tough. Because that's one thing that's been consistent.

So you must, like, we are old as fuck. My headlines not getting any better. Yeah, I'm definitely going to take her. Charles LeBronch Hattie could be the opt-outer. And you and you're... Opt-outamus prime. You've actually built other parts. Opt-outam is prime.

Opt-outam is prime! Top of the dome. That's why they keep me around. Opt-outam is prime. And you, you've... Not. That's a niggatron. explored different areas of leveling up as a podcast.

You're doing great. But the explanations, we haven't really gone to them. No. But your love for white women has endured. That's not true. It has increased. Yo, speaking of that, before we get into the show, the sinners trailer dropped.

Mm. Joe. Jomey. So, yeah, it looks good. There were, there were complaints from the Mateo Spotify office. You were watching, they said you kept watching the trailer on Reefee. I was just like, Just bricked up.

Bricked up once Haley, oh, Haley walked across the street. It's actually not milk merchant. It's Jomey bricked up a dinner on. Cool. Honestly, I take that over milk. Brickzilla? Brickzilla.

Jome. Okay, I want you out to know something. Okay, so Briggsilla, there's somebody else who has that name. Oh, yeah. Charles knows. See what I'm saying? They lie. They lie.

Charles knows. Wait, well, shut up, Charles. What have I ever lied? Charles knows. You know who that is. Yeah. Yeah. See, Charles knows.

Charles knows. Briggsilla. Oh, God. Tell us which one you want. Five and Jorre is fun for me, man. That's fine. Okay, okay. That's good.

That's fine. It's good. All right. All of Nigeria just went, nah, we can't live with that. We're now on YouTube. You can watch every midnight boy's house of war and talk to thrones.

Episode on YouTube. com slash at ringerverse. Like, comment, and subscribe. Okay, remind us! This week, House of Barrava. will give you their deep dive on the latest episode of Rings of Power and Agatha all along. I want to tell you guys something real quick, and I want you guys to bring this up to her. I've broken Joe.

How so? So I'm so deep into the lore of Game of Thrones that Joe has stopped responding to me. I've broken Joe. I call Joe. I learn about a new battle or new character. Have you guys heard of Young Griff? No. Oh, my God.

Do you have my album come out? Young Griff. See, that's what I told Joe. Young Griff is a guy who's pretending like he's Agon Targary. He's trying to make people think that he's the actual son of Elamartel and Ragar Targary. He's an imposter. But some people think he really is him. These are the little tidbits that I'm into.

I'm all into Young Griff now figuring out Young Griff. I'm into Young Griff. I'm into the Blackfire Rebellion. I'm into different things. regarding Game of Thrones. And I would hit Joe up about these things at first, and Joe would get into a 30-minute-hour conversation about all the different lore.

And I called Joe yesterday, and she did not hit me back. I think you've exhausted this thing. Only so many hours in the day. I've beaten Joe. Joe, it's not going to stop. I'll call her right now. She is the lore queen, and we nerd out the lore together, and that's it.

That's our connection. So, Joe, I want to let you know. It's not going to stop. I got more things to talk to you about. I want to talk about the Crownlands and the Stormlands with you. Okay. This Friday button mash

is coming back to talk about the latest Legend of Zelda game. What is this? The new Legends of Zelda game. You play a Zelda this time. What's the name of the fucking game? Yeah, you just started to play me. What is they trying to play you?

I told you there's a new Legend of Zelda game. And you said the new Legend of Zelda game as if you were all up on it. I'm not. You turn you into the button mash to find out about it. What is the game? You play as Zelda, like Link saves her. You play as Zelda?

Yeah, you play as Zelda? Yeah. Oh, my God. That's woke. That's not woke. Turns out, Zelda's the girl. Yeah, like that's, in the 80s, we wouldn't have done that. You literally played as Sammis and Metroid.

Yeah, Metro. What happened? Samis. You played as Metroid and Samus. I'm not talking about that, though. I'm talking about specifically with Zelda. Okay. Okay.

Like, you can actually track the progress of feminism and society by characters and video games getting their own adventures. I'm almost positive this is not the first time you get to play Zelda. Is it not? I don't know. No, it's one of the very few times you get to play at Zelda, but yes. So there's other times? Yeah.

She's in Smash Bros. I know, she's awesome. What other games you get to play Zelda? There's like a Dynasty Warriors-esque skin that they did with them. I don't know. I'm telling you right now. Why are you always passing this information off as if you know about Zelda and stuff? Honestly, this was the first time that Jomey

have been the explainer. Well, I'm looking at it right now. In the early 90s, there was a Zelda's adventure. It don't count if you looking at all. All right. Let me ask you a question. Seriously, though, we should ask, and I ask Steve this. Steve, if you have to look up the information, do you count, does it count as explaining it?

I mean, we explain it to the audience, the people at home. Steve has spoken. Steve, the judge, Allman. And so then I guess it counts. Charles. Your point is well taken, though. The court. The court does hear you.

Just to let you guys know, it's a little later that we're doing this one. And so... Yeah, the 7 p.m. Thursday, Wednesday energy is a little... And on Saturday, Ringerverse Recommends comes back with our best recommendations for the month of September. I know what my recommendation is going to be easy. Same. Is it okay to say it now or should we wait for Ringerva's Recommend. Save it.

What do you think, Arjuna? Tees it. It's a fighting game. I'm going to take you for a rock. I'm gonna take you for a ride. I'm so like fucking fucked up because I got, you know, I just, if I get into something, I automatically spend like $500.

Yeah, you were talking of, yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. It's like the game came, the game is on there. I bought a game. And you just can't play the game with the controller. You need a new controller. You know you don't. You can play with the normal controller. No, no, no.

It's easy. No. You, you, it's a waste of time. Not for him. I need to play it with the regular controller and all of a sudden box comes to the house. Kaleegas like, what is this? I'm like, it opens this big-ass PlayStation. I like it's a PlayStation controller so, so I can play the game on it.

Just get, get on my face. Get. And then I get up and I leave. She says, where are you going? I go to Best Buy to get a USB extender. Oh. So I can play the game right away. Boom.

Game comes out to get a gift. 500 out of me. Right away. Bang. The controller was $500. It was $250. It's an arcade stick, isn't it? It's like $250, $300, something like that, man. Yeah, you brought an arcade stick. I don't give a fuck that shit. I've been waiting for the game to come out for years.

It's great. But on today's show, we're looking at episode three of Agatha all along and we're revisiting Joker in anticipation of the sequel, Joker. Arthur Fleck, as he laughs his way into insane. and into your heart. It's not bad.

Are we reviewing the new Lady Gaga Harlequin album? Do you see that? Wait, well, I did see that. I didn't hear it. She's like dropping a whole like Harlequin album. All right, I got them. Spoiler warnings for the MCU. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business.

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And Agatha. We're getting ready to talk about Agatha all I love. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. I'll tell you something, you don't really need a spoiler warning for the MCU because this has nothing to do with it.

Whoa, we got him a fist or drop. Yeah, we do, we do, we do. Actually, there's some little hints in there. Some hints in there. To begin our reactions, we bring you the Midnight Manifest. Now, this week is different. Charles is opting out in protest.

And so being that he's opting out, Jomey is going to bring you the Midnight manifest giving you all the need to know about Agatha all along. Like, wait. All right. Do I just go? Yeah, you go. See what I'm saying?

I've just, this literally my first time. You don't fucking go. I am nervous. This is my first time. How could you be, you want me to do? Well, because Charles does such a good job every week. I have to, you know, somehow try to live up to that. You need to relax.

All right. Do you know what that was? That was me plucking you off. Charles is nuts sack. Like, go ahead. Like, go ahead and do it bad at it. Jesus Christ. All right.

This is episode three of Agatha all along through many miles of tricks and trials. Directed by Rachel Goldberg and written by Cameron Squires. So the witches are on the road. Yay. Sharon, who they keep calling Mrs. Hart, tries to find a way out but gets stuck

in some goofy quicksand stuff and realizes she's stuck with the coven on the witch's road to the end. Speaking of which, as they start their journey, they come across a beach house, which is absolutely divine, and the kitchen is lovely, Sharon. Add a little sasker. Picking up steam. Yeah, and they have to face the first of their trials upon the Witch's Road. The trial, the first trial is wine and some girl talk with a 30-minute timer.

Everybody except teen who can't drink, and Agatha, who thinks she's better than this, takes a glass and drinks up. Seen's easy enough, right? You'd be mistaken. Their faces swell up. Sharon passes out and they realize Agatha hasn't drunk in her glass yet. Eventually they get Agatha to drink and Jennifer the potion's wits sends everybody on a hunt to grab ingredients to quell the wine's harmful effects. But as they do, they start to see moments from their past that haunt them. Alice sees her missing mom who she's been searching for. Lillia sees an old family

and starts speaking Russian. Jennifer sees an old doctor and Agatha sees a baby in a crib and freaks the hell out. With the help of a sous-Vee, teen's blood and an Agatha pep talk, Jennifer gets the potion together and the coven drinks the potion just as the third. 30 minute timer hit zero and the house starts to flood. The grab Sharon and all slide into the oven to escape and end up back on the richest road and out of harm's way, only to find out that gasp, Sharon is dead. Oh, and by the way, did I forget to mention that early in the episode during a conversation between Jennifer and teen?

Jennifer mentions Mephisto by name. Wow. By name. Something to think about. And that has been your midnight manifest for episode three of Agatha. Give it up for Jomey. Fantastic manifest, Jomey. Okay, Agatha all along, Mint Bull.

Boys go. Just yet. Okay. All right. No. Okay. I think this is what the show should be like at its crux. Like the road trip of this episode like Trial of the Week. We have some sort of like fun house adventure with the Real Housewives of this witch coven.

Yeah. Real Housewives of Eastview. This is fun. I don't think I can really be mad about it. I think that this is a good, quippy, like, fun time with Marvel. Like, I don't think I could find myself, like, if you could find something wrong with how unconventionally not Marvel it is, sure, but I can't say that it wasn't fun. Yeah, no, I had a lot of fun. I think this is clearly a Nagatha vehicle for Catherine Hahn. I think she's doing an excellent job, and they flanked her by some fun stuff.

Sharon, rest in peace, was fantastic. Yes. I had a long day. I've had a long day. I don't know she's dead. Maybe. Maybe. But, I mean, it looked bad.

It's nice to end the episode and it's like, Sharon's dead. Who's Sharon? Also, maybe if she is dead, gives the show some stakes that other MCU shows don't have. Maybe we know that this is the world where people run out of a witch and they die. But Johnny Graham's all. No, I mean, I just thought the episode was, like, like Steve said, very much, like, crafted in a way that I think for the next couple weeks, we're going to see them. run it to another trial and Aguil's going to give somebody a pep talk and I think that works. I had a lot of fun with this episode.

I had a lot of fun too. Look, I think that the show, to me, I'm always interested in learning new things about new areas of the Marvel Cinematic Universe because the comic universe is so, so deep. There's street level comics. There's military, industrial complex comments. There's the magic part. There's the cosmic part. There's like the funny off-kilter part, all of that stuff. And so Marvel establishing this universe, this witchy type of universe, like Agatha is like the proof of concept for that.

I think it works pretty well. I think the show is funny. I think Catherine Hahn is great. And I like watching people make a witch's brew. I could, okay, small complaint here. No, you're going to do this. Don't do this. You couldn't have put a little bit of dry ice in that sink and have like a little like bubbly mist ooze in there?

That's an old school. I know, but I like that. That's my problem with you. Steve, this is how I know you'd be dating them got bad. First of all, you're like, you like, you like, you like, you're like, you're like, you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Do you hear that? No. Steve.

I just like the dry ice effect. No, see, because, see, because when some, they do that other stuff, help be like, man, why did they do that old school stuff, man, all that that's all. That's all. We want new stuff. But then they don't do the new stuff. They do the new stuff. You're like, wow, it happened to my old stuff. Y'all want it both ways.

I'm saying. I miss my dry ice Witch's brew. Call me traditional. It's new witchcraft. Do you guys drink Witch's brew in elementary school? Yeah. What is that? They had like this stuff and it, it was like green, but it was like they put seven up in it.

Yeah, it was like seven up fruit punch kind of a thing. Acto cooler? No, no, no, no, no, no. It was like a, they called it like a witch's brew. Yeah. And my mom found out that the teacher gave us a. Just broo, my mom fucking lost it. Was this when they were, like, afraid that Dungeons and Dragons was devil worship?

Yeah. Yeah. In a big way. Okay. Like, my cousins were trying to put me on Dungeons and Dragons. I'm my, uh-uh, uh-uh. Not in this motherfucking house. Yeah, yeah.

Dungeons and Dragons. Some kids, they actually went into the, my mother used to repeat things that were so untrue. Like, some kids actually went into the game. Jumanji? Yeah. Like, Jumani? She was saying like it was true. You were saying like it was true.

You know what happened in San Jose. some kids actually went into the game and we're crazy having been heard of since. First of all, that sounds awesome. That's a movie pitch right there. My dad would be a cookie, that didn't happen. A pastor Franklin said that in church,

it happened, whatever, it didn't happen. The show works for me. Yes. It's not, it can't be that scary. It's Marvel. Maybe it can be. It was kind of scary at times.

Well, that's what I'm saying. And, you know, there was some things at times that I didn't think that the show would actually do when they're talking about, like, you know, ghouls and goblins and stuff like that. That's some scary points, but it can't be wall-to-wall scary. I've seen, like, a couple of images that have flashed on the trailer for this show that I think we have yet to see. I don't want to spoil anything that I've seen in the trailer for anybody that hasn't.

But it looked like almost daringly spooky for what Marvel has been before. And I'm like, oh, this might, like, we haven't seen something like this maybe since, like, Ramey's turn at, like. Oh, World War I Night. We're overnight in like multiverse of madness in a little bit where it gets like freaky and like there's a little like body horror zombie kind of stuff. I like the idea that the Marvel can play in the space a little bit and the fact that we

we may even get the mention of by name Mephisto. Oh my God. Which should we dive into that? Like, okay, like I hate to speculate already but like if you say his name, does that mean that you have to do something with it? I mean, you hope so. Well, so.

He's, he's, he's, he's, he's there. He's here. Really? You think so? here. We've been here before. Have we ever heard the name? No, we haven't. They've never mentioned them. So, so, I mean, and this is like a longstanding thing. If you've been listening to the podcast

since like it's inception, basically. The Mephisto theories have been, remember Wanda Vision, even like Falcon Winner's Soldier Loki. Loki. Like, it's Mofisto and it's never been Mephisto. Yeah. Not even close, right? And now we finally have a canon mention of him in the MCU. Did we will this into existence? I mean, I would say so. Like, it could be cool? I think they breadcrummed you into this moment. Sure. That's what I'm saying.

But like the fact that they weren't aware about the fact that we were all wildly speculating about the Fistow for years. Could it be like, would it be more interesting if like he showed up at the end of the season or if this was just them throwing another. You know, so apparently they've cast

Sasha Baron Cohen for Ironheart. Like, or whatever. Apparently they've cast him as Mephisto or something like that this where people are saying, speculations. My Time to Shine hello, Daniel R.PK-esque universe stuff that's on.

You're locked in. Locked in. Damn. But did you just look that up? No, I'm seeing what if it was more like heavy rumors. Right, right, right, right. So I wouldn't repeat a rumor as if it's,

I'm saying that, you know, these are things. Yeah. You would think that if they were going to bring him into the universe, this is kind of shit or get off the pot time right now with... Yeah, you said his name and we've been doing this for years. They brought up Nikki Scratch, who was, of course, the son of Akatha Hardness that she is traded for the goddamn book, and who in the comics is an agent of Mephisto.

Yes. Mephisto is Akalite. So you would think that if they were going to do this, this would be the time that they would do it to broaden it. Because you know what Marvel has to stop doing? A lot of stuff. You know, one thing that they specifically have to stop doing, they have to stop teasing shit. Give up the shit. Right, yeah.

They're like teasing shit to the next show. kicking the narrative can down the road. Yeah. Give up the snaps. I mean, hell, half of the post credit scenes in all of phase four, we could say that for too.

Bro, I have this tweet in my drafts, but remember Thor, 11thunder? When Hercules came out. Oh, yeah. We're not going to see that. I was like, oh,

it's the dude for Hotel Asso. That was two years ago. Yeah. Is the next door movie not with Hercules? Are they making a next door movie? Oh, they'll do another one. I mean, yeah, I mean,

people weren't talking about. Are we getting Harry Styles back? So, like, there's a lot of stuff going on. You know what I mean? Right here, I don't know. What you don't know.

I was talking about. For a second. See, because we had a thing. Thanks, I appreciate it. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.

He chose. He made the choice. You ever see, Indiana Jones? Don't look at it, no, no, no. Oh, that's a good one too. Yeah, okay.

I fuck with you because you got different ones. I didn't think of that one. This is a little. Because I can't look at. Look at the ghosts. Remember all of the fucking cups? Oh, right. Yeah, yeah.

You had to choose which cup. What happens if you drink the wrong cup? Skeleton. Don't drink the wrong cup. Okay. Okay. He made your choice. Major choice.

Major choice. What's some other good people that have made choices in, and the choices didn't go right? Choices didn't go right. Just think about this. That choice is going great, though. It's going. Whoa, whoa. That's another choice.

That's another choice. That's a strike. That's a strike. Y'all can't help me. Actually, the person that can't help it is the person that's not supposed to be talking. That's right. Has to participate. You opt it out.

This is what happens. All you players out there in the NCAA. They're talking to you. You can make money now. You can't unread shirt. If you opt out, you out. You can't say, I don't want to play in the bowl game. And in the second quarter, go, coach, coach, let me go out and run a nine-rower.

Let me run a nine-row. You out. You're not playing in the ball. Okay, let's move on. So, you know, we talked a little bit about what the show has to do. And here's the interesting thing about Agatha. It's a low-leverage show. The stakes don't feel that high.

And as long as it knows that it's won, the show will be successful. Yeah. I agree. But also, I think this is kind of our, and I say our, like the collective us, like fandom's fault for making too many high leverage situations when it comes to the next Marvel thing. I disagree. Well,

oh, all right. But here's what I'll say. I'll finish, let me finish the thought. Like, to think that Agatha needs to be anything other than a fun, spooky time in October. Yeah. I think that that's fine.

I mean, I agree with that point. Yeah. But at the same time, all the shows, they're like, hey, man, the world's in danger. Yeah, the world's changing. The world is this and that. And it's like, brother man, like, if the world's in danger, call Iron Man, or PRMAS day but call Captain Mary

you know what I just want to get my purple like I'm crazy in here I'm hearing voices I don't know The easy is nuts God we each have a strike now We can't even look at them

Bro like We guys can't help you We each have a strike now Guys we gotta say strong This is not what the podcast was built on We feel like we need them But at the same time

We resist the urge, man We're looking at our phones We're like, God damn, they call them I can't quit you But yeah, like the shows and I mean the movies do it I think that a, I mean the movies have to be like that kind of Everything's ending But the shows always present themselves like if we don't do this

The world's gonna end it's like guys y'all can just have like a problem Y'all need to solve like I'm sure they have that big a deal I think Hawkeye did a pretty good job to be like, it's them, the, the Taxu Mafia, that's it. And this show, this show continues like, we're just switches down the road trying to see, what's at the end of the rainbow. I think that's a good plot that doesn't take too much of our brains, be like, how does this work into this and that? It just tells a single story.

I think that would be successful. Steve? I would agree. And I think that, again, when we, when the MCU has kind of just been made, it's made this tapestry of, like, all these interconnected things in elements. and the one big major threat of this being the sequel series to Wanda Vision and kind of stopping it there and then having fun winks and nods to things within its own hemisphere of being like, hey, I, like this could have been an Asian of Mephisto. Nobody really knows who her kid is.

It could be this, it could be that. And there's all these allusions to what these things in the comic books were while not actually leveraging any sort of like prerequisite knowledge on behalf of the audience or anybody knowing what like some other witches like, bad origin with a vision of a ghost from their past might be. Or it's just a fun, spooky thing that we just saw. And it's like everybody's tripping out because they drank the poison. That's a good narrative conceit for Marvel to have while still paying homage to a lot of Marvel canon.

Yeah. So both good points. You guys ever see The Last Dragon? See that? Yeah. Your Last Dragon? I know you like it. So the Last Dragon is about a guy named Bruce Leroy, in Harlem.

Okay, his family owns I've heard about this. I've heard about it, ever seen it? Sorry. I were doing great to this. I've heard about it, I haven't seen it. I've heard about it. Y'all are doing great today.

This is a great part of. Where's the yellow tracks suit? Okay. What? What? Did you? I was just talking to myself. Okay.

Oh. You were just talking to yourself. I was a mixture. I was a mixture. I'm basically like Arthur Fleck right. Okay. Yeah. But I don't know what's real.

Right. You don't know. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I don't know which one. Oh, my gosh. Is Zazi Beets here in the room with us? There is, there could be a light skin agitator. Wow, if somebody turned out.

Agitator! If Charles turned into Zazi Beets one day. If who? Would we be met? Who? Who? Who? I don't know who.

Oh, my gosh. Wait, no, actually, can we edit that so that, like, my mouth turns into the wicket. Do the mouth thing. The sigil. Put the sigil. We need a witch to come in here and bind us. So, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, in the Last Dragon, Bruce Leroy, it's a, okay, by the way, when, you know, you know what I'm saying, when I give the, the plot of the premise for Last Dragon, no people don't think that it's ridiculous.

It makes a lot of sense. It's a motelow movie produced by Barry Gordy. Vanity's in the film. Ernie Ray's Jr. is in the film. It's about a guy who is in Harlem. And he's training kung fu. And he's Bruce Leroy. Okay.

Not okay, probably, but he's Bruce Leroy and martial arts and Harlem and all of that stuff. My point about the Last Dragon is this. At the end of the last dragon, spoiler alert, he achieves the final level. He gets the golden glow. That story works. Not because Bruce Leroy had to save all of New York, or because he had to save all of Harlem, or because he had to save all of the world.

It's because there was something mythical and magical that a value was created for early on in the movie. And at the lowest moment in the character's development in the movie, he achieves that. And when you see him realize what it takes to achieve that thing, you're in. He didn't have to say the world. He didn't even have to say,

all he had to do was win a fight and achieve the thing and know that he is the master. And still, when he kind of gets to it and he understands that, like, that's his purpose, it works. Sometimes the superhero storytelling veers away from the singular narrative goal of one character. It thinks that in order for it to be big, you have to save the universe, you have to save the galaxy, you have to save the United States. No, you can start a narrative with one character, bring us along on a journey, and see if we care about what it is that they want to achieve. Now, a lot of times I think the reason why they do that is because that's a little bit more advanced storytelling

and you have to make people care. I'm not going to say that The Last Dragon is the best script in the world. I'm saying at the end of the Last Dragon, when Shonuf is about to, what Shonuf is asking Leroy, who's the master? And Leroy catches his fist and says, I am, everybody stands on their feet when he gets the golden glow. And that's like the type of thing that they need to get back to.

If this show can accomplish that, it'll be fine. And we see small hints of that because, like, the arc of Agatha seems pretty simple because she's like a loner, she doesn't like cooperating with people. She sucks. She sucks. But you clearly start to see the early seeds of her first deceit

and then what would eventually turn into what we would hope, at least if we were to want to care about this character, or maybe not, about that turning. Like she doesn't want to drink the poison. She drinks it late, later than everybody else because she gets caught by everybody else. You didn't drink it. You didn't drink it with us.

Like, fuck you. We're all in this together. She stops teen from drinking it. Exactly. And then she gives the pep talk to Jennifer. And even though she complains about it, she does help take Sharon's body out of the house. So you see small hints of that. Why does she care about teen? We all know that teen is fucking Wiccan and all of that stuff like that.

What we don't know is why she's so reckless with everybody else's safety, but not with his. Well, I think it's kind of, there's an interesting, like, balance of plausible deniability with, who she thinks he is versus who she might know who he is because the idea that when she has this vision and she looks in the crib and she has this what? What? This vision.

Oh. That happened on accident. Yeah. And and when she has like the Rosemary babies thing where like she looks in the crib and it's horrifying she doesn't know like you can't see it. Does she know that that's her child

and that's what that. that teen might be? Like, does she know that did she know that this was a deal that she made with either Mephisto or whatever evil agency of the thing that she had to give up in order to have this power? She's reckoning with the idea that she had...

It seems as if there's some trauma there, right? Exactly. Or whether or not she knew the actual cost of that. She's facing that. Whether or not Mephisto tricked her. Yes. There you go. That's actually, well, I mean,

there you go. And that's awesome because I hadn't thought of that. Right. There you go. But that's breadcrumbed for us, as we can see. But like the idea that she might not actually know that that could be her child or somebody even remotely important to her because of that sacrifice is interesting. The rest of the world might think that she gave up the child willingly. Right.

However, she might have been tricked into doing it in some way because we know that the devil is a liar. I think what could be interesting is that maybe they play to that, right? And Agatha at some point is like, hey, I think you might be the son I gave up. He's actually like, no, it's just, that's not what I actually happened. You know what I mean? And because she really, like, cares about him. So maybe they're playing that against us because we're like, that's team, that's, that's Billy. And then going forward, maybe there's something that we could like, maybe it's not him.

Maybe it's, maybe it's Nikki. Maybe it's Nikki in some way. Do you know what I mean? Maybe she put the spell on him. Maybe she put the spell on him to not be able to, maybe some. kind of different situation is involved. She knows. Because we're all like, that's Billy Kaplan, that's Wicke and we're so sure of that

that maybe the show is trying to like steer us a different way. Exactly. No, trying it's best to be like, no, it's not Billy. I will say this. Marvel is not good at tricking us. What I mean by, what I mean about, we're better at tricking ourselves. Yeah. Then Marvel is in making us go, hey, the aerospace engineer is reenrich.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, boy. That was, you know, we played ourselves with that. No, it was y'all. Who is the power broker? Who is the power broker?

Is the power broker? Agent Colson is the, it's the power, no, it's fucking Sharon Carter. Sharon Carter, scroll, by the way. Throughout the whole thing. Had to be scroll.

So normally, normally, we read more into it and they normally take the safe path and the storytelling in terms of whatever. Which is fine, but like, ultimately, those things need to be rewarding and almost all of the times

that they have, tried that, it hasn't worked out. Because it's like, okay, oh, it's Sharon Carter. It's not the fact that that can't be impactful. It's the fact that they didn't make it impactful. So if we know why Billy is either Wiccan or

whomever, this person needs to be like, what actually matters is why he is who he is. Like, how that happened and why we should care. That's all that is the most important about that. Not the fact that he is. Why is he? I had a dream one night. Oh boy. And

in my dream the power broker was Howard Stark like a live like a 95 year old decrepit Howard Stark was he like cyborg so this is what happened

in the dream was his name fucked up mom rest in peace mom mama Stark yeah and then he fucked up Howard Howard

Howard was still a lot and on the way he he broke one of the vials of one of the Super Solaris serum. Leaped out and he got the serum. Oh shit. And he took it.

And then that kept him alive. Oh. And then it's like, get all crazy. He was in the... So there was, okay, so there was a second briefcase in the back of that trunk that he were carrying.

It was like, whatever. And he took it. It was a second briefcase in the catalog. Right? He was all scarred. And then some people in the woods, they took them in and all of that stuff.

And it took him in. And then he, was getting back and he wanted revenge. And so at the end, the power broker becomes Howard Stark. I dreamt about this. That would have been riveting. It would have been infinitely better if the power broker was Howard Stark.

I mean, basically the story, you just told, yes. Yeah, that would be great. Yeah, this Howard, you know, it's like, because I'm also thinking about Game of Thrones, there's one, there's one blackfire that has a head growing out of his neck because he killed his brother in the womb. and that's basically my how would start

like it would be all fucked up oh my god I gotta get fucking Bucky back and then he becomes Van you should really see a movie called The Substance that's out right now I don't want to see it You know by the way you're not gonna trick me to go see that

I'm singing I'm singing on Friday A bunch of people You are? Yeah Oh man you're trying to get me to go see it I'm not going to say it I don't know what it's about but I'm You don't know what it's about

Good Don't let's say what I am seeing Don't anybody tell me what the substance about Jomi just see it and call me and call me when you finish it I tell you what I am seeing and everybody is invited to come see it with me I'm going to see Terror Fire 3 pretty soon.

Yeah. Art the Crown. Is that it? Terrorfire is awesome. Is it a horror? Yes. Okay. So look, look, the whole episode is based around the trial of them trying to figure out how to make the potion and escape the house to continue their journey on the road.

Yep. I think that what I'm going to judge Agatha on is whether or not the episodes are successful or unsuccessful. This was a successful episode of television. I was never bored. I was into it. I laughed a little bit and I bought the story. It's good. It's not going to reinvent the wheel. It's not going to change the world. It's a good episode of TV with some good performances and some good fucking

fun. Yeah. Great acting too. I would kill for that kitchen too. That's a fit. Bro, that entire house. That's a crazy kitchen. It's got to go crazy On what's called Zillow? Oh, no, the Airbnb. $3 billion. You can't do Airbnb anymore. Really?

Ever? You shouldn't do it anymore. Oh, you shouldn't? I never did. When you do Airbnb, there's some old white guy in this attic with cameras on you, watching you and tape it. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then uploaded it to the dark web, Silk Road.com, and people are looking at you doing all kinds of crazy stuff.

You can't use Airbnb. I saw this one video where this dude opened up a false door, and they didn't realized that he was still there and he was walking out of, I swear. Jesus. Airbnb, you can't do it. Hotel better than Airbnb. It's always been. It's always been.

At first Airbnb was kind of lit. I mean, I'm out there. But then like Airbnb, it's like when Uber first dropped. Airbnb started hitting you with the fucking cleaning fees, $1,000. I have to pay in order to not clean something. I have to clean the thing? No. That's not.

Like, that's what hotels are for. You know what? We should do an episode. Midnight grievances. where we should just do a whole episode where everybody just comes in and we just do grievances. I want to get some things off on my chest.

I got grievances and I want to talk about it with my friends. Arjuna, midnight grievances. What do you think? Do it around Thanksgiving. We're not thankful for. We talk about, other people talk about what they're thankful for.

Well, we got it. But we talk about some midnight grievance. You can be negative, but I can't. Okay. Man, I wish Charles was here for this. You'd be really good at that part. It's so weird, bro. It's like, we miss his, we miss him.

I miss him. Yeah. He was a real one. He was. And the thing that I liked about him was that we're doing a funeral right now. Are we doing a eulogy? All right. That's enough of a advocate.

Charles Holmes has now opted into the podcast. He's clocked in. He's clocked in. We have to, and now, Charles, you got to carry his last fucking segment, you bitch you. So, why? And so, we're going to do a reversible. Reversibles. Reversibles?

What's a reversible? I'll tell you something right now. If I was, uh, the rewatchables, I would sue. Uh, we're going to talk about the reverse of the reverse. The reverse. The movie on the heels of the Joker of Foley LaDoo. What? No, that's the name of the movie.

No, I don't, he nailed it. What's called? Foli adieu? Foli adieu? I'm not calling it to it. Joker 2, Foli adieu? Yeah. Terrifying.

No, masterpiece. Like, like, terrifying. No. Okay. Spoiler warning for the Joker. And really not for D.C. Because this movie has nothing to do with anything like a Batman. Whoa, whoa.

Oh, boy. Baby Bruce Wayne is in this. That's true. That's true. But spoiler warning for all of that stuff now. We're getting ready to talk of. about all I love.

You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right, that's enough. Charles, you love this movie. Whoa, what's not say love?

I like this movie. You like it. Tell us why. Really? All right. I'll listen to you motherfuckers Carrie Water for the for the MCEU for 45 minutes.

And I can't like... You weren't here. You weren't here. No, no, no, no, no. No, no. Oh, whoa. Oh, wait, wait, wait. I'm opt-in in now.

You can't opt-in. You can't. It doesn't work it like that. You can't stick to your own shit. You can't do that. You said you didn't want to, you guys don't need an opt-out. You said you didn't want to talk about Agatha. No.

Stick to your shit. Now, now, what are you thinking about the Joker? Guys, this is a masterpiece. This is a fucking masterpiece. Okay. A lot of people feel that way, by the way. Well, I'm not. That's so not.

Okay. You guys have to like a lot of people like the movie, bro. Yeah, no, they do. All right, here's the thing. This is simultaneously the dumbest movie I've ever seen. That's it. That's it. It's just dumb.

Why? No. Okay. Dog, all right. Come on. Every single time she starts going to left. He just starts cruising. I'm like, what's wrong with this nigga?

Dog, when he kills the fat dude. And then his little friend, he's like, I got to reach the door. Yeah. And I was just like, dog, don't kill him. Don't kill my love. He was the only one who was nice to the Joker. He's the only one nice to Arthur. Y'all didn't laugh.

This movie is so... You're saying it like it's like it was like Toby McGuire dancing in Spider-Man 3, which is actually funny. To me, I'm sorry. When I was watching the movie, I was like, fuck this movie, this is an cell-ass movie. But when Arthur's getting his ass beat by the little kids in the first five minutes, I was like, this is quite literally. I'll give the movie this. If we're talking about scenes that made us laugh when he drops the gun at the hospital. That's funny.

That's funny. That's funny. You know how I know I'm a fucked up person? My criticisms of the Joker movie don't really have anything to do with the cultural overtones or undertones in the movie and what it means to grievance culture or anything like that. It's just, to me, the movie is a movie masquerading as something else. But as a lot So obviously we all know that like

They didn't really want to make a Joker movie They wanted to make this movie about a man descending into madness Yeah And they wrapped it in the bow of This is how the Joker becomes the Joker Which is going to make fans of Batman and the Batman lore Go out to see the movie And if they give you anything that resembles that

You're going to be okay cool, right? But it's not really really has nothing to do with the Joker Any of that stuff right It's not really the character or anything. But the movie in it of itself, just about a dude that for whatever reason has delusions of grandeur or wants something more and it drives him crazy.

It didn't offend me, like, offended. So it offended me, not in like the, like, the, like the wokesness, like, in the sense of they didn't want to make a Joker movie, right? So they make Arthur do all this stuff. But then they have the audacity. It's not a superhero movie. Like, it's not superhero. It's a journey about a man.

Then they have an audacity. Not only put Bruce Wayne. the wanes in it. We see the scene where the pearls fall. And I'm like, guys, guys, come on, bro. They take the time out of the time alley. Like, dude, like, I got to see it again.

All the talks is like, no, man, this is a different thing. That's not it. And I'm here watching Batman's Parish die. Let's be serious. Like, let's be for you. Well, I mean, look, my thing is this. It's like, that's a part of the grift. That's my real problem with the movie.

The one, we've talked about this before. The one scene in Batman lore that we don't need to see again is what happened in crimeality. We don't really need to see that again. However, building this entire narrative of this entire movie about this guy who inspires

all this lawlessness and then that being the reason that Thomas and Martha Wayne get killed, that is the catnip that people leave the theater still kind of attracted to that makes you feel like

you just watched a Batman movie. So can I ask this, though, and not to bring up last episode, but I am interested in obviously this is separate from the Matt Reeves verse. To me, what is the difference really between something like the Joker or the Penguin? Because I think they actually are very similar

and say a lot about what Hollywood is right now, which is this is essentially, what if the Joker was in Taxi Driver or the King of Comedy? And the Penguin is like, hey, what if Oswell Cobblepot was Tony Suprin? And I just, and sometimes I think it's like, I'll give you my response to that. One deepens the world

and the other one is tangential to it. So when we first, we know who the penguin is and we are watching the story of the penguin and we're looking at someone who eventually has to be one of Batman's arch nemesis. The Batman world that we can, got in the other movie, to me,

wasn't that deep. It was a different world and we understood it, but we didn't get into the weeds and the ends and outs of it. And it kind of almost didn't feel Batmany enough. This show,

if it accomplishes its goal, will have deepened that world, made us understand the criminal organisms that exist in that world, what's expected of those guys, the consequences of that, and everything. and it'll pull like that movie and make it a deeper bucket. This one doesn't have it to do with anything.

There's no world to it. There's nothing to it, right? And what they're doing is taking a lure that's very deep and injecting it into something that's really a story of one guy. And it's in bad faith to do that if, in fact, there's no connectivity between those two things. To me, as long as everything is connected, you can say, watch the story.

of this guy in this world. There's a different world we're giving you. And the rules and the parameters of that world are really going to be set by this show even more than a Batman movie because we're going to have eight hours. This isn't doing that. And it's cool.

What this is saying is, hey, all of the stuff that you've ingested for 30 or some odd years, imagine it this way. And then you watch it, and there's nothing more to it than the one-off singular story. So I would say if you do it,

If you do a spinoff about a character, give me some lore. But here's the reason why I push back on that is like, if I'm being, I'm not trolling right now. Like, I actually do think that there are things about the Joker that are actually harmful that are a little bit like, all right, fuck this movie. But if we're going to get a villain-centric movie, I do prefer Joaquin Phoenix really, truly doing something transformational. Did he deserve the Oscar? I don't know. but I don't necessarily know if I need the Joker lore to tell me something deeper about Batman

because at this point it's like we've gotten so many Jokers that I'm just like they wanted to tell this singular story. Some of it very dumb. But the only problem, oh, my bad, Steve. No, no, no. The only problem is it's not the Joker.

So let's have that conversation. What I think that this is a great depiction of the Joker. Yeah, okay, well... What makes the Joker? Oh. Let me let... Before I suck up all the oxygen. Ooh, Danny.

Let me let me let Stephen Jones jump in there before. No, it's off of what you guys said. Like, I think the thing that the movie did right is the patchwork framework of what you can do to a character and IP that is actually stripped away with a lot of the things that make that characters surrounding. environment part of them. If you make a Joker movie that takes away Batman, most of the city of Gotham, and just puts him in a situation with regular everyday people and make it more or less an origin story,

what can you actually say about a character when it's just the character? That is interesting, but to me it fails at every single type of way that you can execute that. because at every turn, that makes it a character that is either an outright bummer to see or despicable and bad faith in the way that it's executed on the screen. I think the way that can be made in a way that it's effective

is when you actually have an understanding of the character that actually people don't have that many iterations on. We've had like four people play the Joker before Walking Phoenix had his at bat. And then by the time we see this, there's nothing that we can actually recognize. that's around him, that's like, well, what else is the Joker other than just a lonely guy that had a couple of bad days? And that is the ethos that actually works with the Joker, because the idea that this movie is that one line from the killing Joker's like, when Joker's saying to the Batman, oh, you're just one bad day away from being me. And then that's kind of what this movie thinks it's doing, but it's not doing anything that's remotely smart

when it comes to executing that. And I think to what makes the Joker the Joker is really being the mirror against which every other person weighs and judge their morals. It's not that he's crazy. It's that he wants you to be crazy. Yeah. It's not the Joker himself being off is not what makes him the Joker. What makes the Joker the Joker is he's trying to convince you.

He thinks he's saying and you're crazy for going along with those rules. so he'll poison the water supply to make people turn on each other. He'll put a bomb on each boat to make people turn on each other. It's not that he's on his own just going through something. That's not what makes him what it is because there are a lot of other people that are like that. What makes him him is that he has a foil and he has somebody else that represents order and he's trying to pull it apart at the shreds. And if he's not doing that, he ain't the Joker.

But let's be fair. Is it that the failing of most of these villain-centric movies? I think when you, here's the thing, I have to take the Joker on the thing where I'm just like, if Batman's not showing up in this movie, there's only so much it can do, because I do think fundamentally I agree with you, you understand the Joker better

because he is the thing that Batman isn't. Like, to your point, it's always like you're one bad day away from being me. Similar to like the Venom movies. The Venom movies only ever makes sure. so much sense because at his heart, Venom is the opposite of Spider-Man. Like, visually, he was created as the opposite of Spider-Man. Now, the thing

that I actually think that the Joker, I don't know, I think they kind of trip into this, is that I think it is a very, very effective origin story for him. Because when you take away the red hood of it all, the comic book accurate, he falls into a VAT.

Batman's there. You're just like, oh, he became the Joker because Gotham was actually the villain. the city, the infrastructure, the government, the Waynes, failed Arthur Fleck and his mother. The system failed him. And seeing a Joker basically be driven mad because he can't get his meds. He can't. They're shutting down the therapist that or the social workers that speaks with him.

His job treats him like a freak. That to me was the most interesting part of this where I was just like, fantastic. You're absolutely right. That was the hook that got people that got me on the movie. You're right, except he never becomes the Joker. Right? So what do you mean?

So he just doesn't become. So all of that stuff was this stuff like, oh, my God, we're going to see now how, because you expect to get some more complexity. Let's say we told the story of this unbelievably force sensitive guy in the galaxy who comes from a noble, a noble house, and he kills his parents, and he does all of this stuff, he gives himself up to the dark side,

and he just goes around the galaxy having adventures, and his name is Chief Papatoon. He has to, at some point, take over the galaxy. Like, the whole thrust of the story is around the fact that everything that happened to him led him to act in a way that has been, narrative engine for other happenings. If you just put somebody out there

and it's a different way, it's fascinating and it can be good as far as how good it is, but you can tell that story with anyone, right? Why would you do it with a character whose main utility in our story is to make our hero spring to action? Like, why would you, it doesn't make any sense.

It's a different character. So everything that you're talking about right now with the joke, and that's fine. I'm having any problem with that. Everything that you're talking about right now with that movie is true. And that's what you thought it was going to be. What you thought it was going to be was like, oh my God, the city that he's trying to fuck over is what created him, except Todd Phillips and everybody else says that this Joker is not going to become a Joker that has any grander designs for Gotham. That has anything more to say or more to do. It's just a guy that's going crazy in Gotham. But I think that's true to the Joker, because I think the thing that has made the Joker so.

malleable over time is that the Joker isn't always the villain that just wants to do the kooky scheme to get to Batman. That's not true. Yeah, but he has to fight Batman. He has to fight Batman. I'm not even talking about Batman. The Joker sometimes does what he does. Like, when the, when the Joker, like, we've already mentioned this, when the Joker

tricked Superman into killing Lewis Lane, that had nothing to do with Batman. He just wants to take what you think you are and make you believe. and make you into something else. He wants to convince you that you are him. He has a point of view. This Joker has no point of view. He says I don't care about anything. Batman's not showing up in this movie.

Like, when I walked into this movie, I'm just like that's eight years old. That's cool. That's cool. I'm just saying, I get it. You know what I'm saying? At a certain point, I have to be like, that is, I still think that this is a version of the Joker

because I think when the character works best, it is a character. character about chaos. So Joker, especially in the comics, Joker can be a serial killer. Joker can be a more traditional circus clown. But again, that's only when it's weighed against

another person. But here's the thing. Once again, you can say that quite literally about most of the late stage superhero IP. And that's why they stink, right? Like, I don't like the venom stuff.

I don't like this movie. mainly because, and I think this is why a penguin is different, is because so for Oz in the penguin, he's a bad person surrounded by other bad people, right? Like, he's the hero of the story because we're watching it from his point of view, and we know that, like, he's a bad person doing bad things with bad people, right?

For, like, Venom and the Joker, they're, like, the hero, but, like, actually, like, hey, man, we got to, Eddie, Eddie, we have to save these people's lives. Like, bro, that's not one. about what Venom is doing. We're supposed to feel bad for the Joker. He murders three people on the train. Murders his mom, kills a dude in his house,

shoots Murray on the TV thing. We're supposed to feel bad for him for why. You know what I mean? But here's the thing. So this is why I feel like y'all is shooting, and we'll just stay on Penguin bail. We don't give a fuck about the Penguin in the same way that we give a fuck about Joker and Venom

because those characters, because we have such an emotional attachment to them, they have so many iconic runs or iconic moments in the comic book, a lot of times they're more, they're in amber, especially in movies and TV.

We're like, if the Joker's there, we want to see some Batman. If Venom's there, we want to see Spider-Man. And that's why I think it's like, the Craven movie. I'm not excited for the Craven movie

because I'm just like, why the fuck should I give a fuck about Craven if Spider-Man's not there? But also if they fuck up the Craven movie, I'm just like, who cares? It's a Craven movie. So the way I look at that is this. I don't even need Spider-Man to be

there in the movie. I don't need it, right? As long as the character is true to itself, right? If Venom would have been some guy that invented a symbiote suit, I would have been like, why are we doing this? If Venom would have been, if Venom would have taken place on another planet, which actually might not be that bad.

Maybe you go to the planet. If Venom would have been fundamentally a different character, but packaged in a Venom way. Let's say that in the Venom movie, the symbiote doesn't really exist. And he's imagining it all. And what they're really selling us is a movie about a guy who's descending into, like, craziness. But believing it's because there's an aliencipient inside of his body.

I would say, take your fucking guy descending into crazy movie. Get Daniel Day Lewis and go make your fucking movie. But if you wrap it up in a venom movie, then he's got to get super big and black. and he's got to rip people apart because that's what Ben, that's what Benham fucking does. Do you remember? So if,

he's got to do all of the stuff. What? Unjoker-like stuff does he do in the movie? He doesn't fucking try to, he don't do shit. He doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't rob anybody,

he doesn't do shit. He doesn't do shit. So the only type of Joker that is the Joker is it talking like, ah, Batman. A little bit. I'm telling you straight up right now. The Joker goes crazy,

but the real reason why the Joker is the Joker is because he is a criminal weapon of mass destruction. It's not because... That's not always true, though. It is mostly true. I mean, there... In the comment, sometimes the Joker has done one-offs, things like that. But you don't worry about the Joker

because he's going to run up on somebody and kill an individual person. You worry because when he's out the... entire city of Gotham. The whole eastern seaboard is in danger. He about to put fucking chemicals in the makeup and people are going to be on TV

not looking good because they're afraid to use the makeup because the makeup will make you smile and go crazy. I can't believe you guys are being this origin. I'm not being rigid. This is a very rigid way. Here's the thing. He has the Joker makeup. All right? He doesn't believe in anything. Okay. But the Joker does believe in something.

The Joker I'm talking about? he definitely does believe in something in dark in the dark night the joker took an entire fucking time to tell you what he believes it's not part of the plan

he does have beliefs he has a very specific worldview he looks at the world in a very specific way it's a way that's he's criminally insane but he has

well if I put on my comic historian cap I would say Joker rest in peace to Benny from comic story man He's a piece of a big.

RIP. Yeah, RIP being, man. It was very tough. I think, because you, actually I would agree, Joker does have beliefs,

but I do think that they are always cast opposite of Batman. And because it's like, you have to think about whatever Batman was in whatever century, whether it was like in the 60s and he's very campy or whatever, versus like the 80s, very like rich, 90s militant muscle. get a different Joker that can be the best foil to that Batman.

And I would agree that the failing of this movie is like, Batman's a little kid. So when Joker goes to Bruce Wayne's house and is harassing fucking Alfred, you don't feel anything for Joker because you're like. You kind of do because he thinks that Thomas Wayne is his father. Right. So even that whole thing, like that to me, you feel like he's a creep.

I know, but even that whole thing, right? I'm thinking that what that's going to mean, I was trying to do the math, but I'm thinking what that's going to mean is that the reason why Joker is obsessed with Batman this entire time is because he thinks that Batman is his brother. I was so glad they didn't do that.

If they did that, I literally would have been like this. That's interesting. That's better than what they gave us. What? I don't know. I don't know what they gave us. I don't know what you could do.

Because like I truly don't think if they leaned into that, I don't know if that would make it more or less. I don't know. I truly don't know. I truly don't. It also doesn't make sense because, like, Arthur's like old as hell and Bruce is like eight. So when he becomes Batman, he's going to be in a freaking wheelchair. Right.

So it doesn't make any sense. Oh, it just depends. Look, it is very true. But look, all I'm saying is the penguin thing is this. The penguin is, we already saw this penguin, right? We saw him. And when we saw Batman with this penguin, we were like, okay, so this guy is the penguin. He's a different penguin.

Mm-hmm. And what we learned is that he's not all the way penguin yet. the penguin that we understand is the leader of the Red Triangle Gang and like all of his different stuff, he's not quite that guy yet, which is actually interesting because our Batman, to be honest with you, at the beginning of that movie, wasn't quite Batman yet. And so this Joker isn't quite Joker. But he never will be. And Todd Phillips has already told us that. That's the thing. So, and maybe this is like a bigger conversation, but Todd Phillips has said like he doesn't want to do that.

the whole like Joker Batman thing. And then somebody around like the Batman, I want to say maybe Matt Reeves, somebody around there says something about like how they want to tone down. Like they don't want to go all too crazy in the Batman universe with all like the magical. They want to keep it very rigid. What is with people in Batman not letting it be nuts anymore?

Right? Because I mean, we got Rajal Ghul in like Christopher Nolan's like way back when when they were making like... Frankly, I wanted to see Christopher Nolan's, Razel Gould, go into a pile of green goo and come out younger. I wanted to see that and he didn't. I don't you, this, because I've seen this argument with all these comic

fans being like, why don't, why don't the directors want this to be more comic book accurate? Why are they so afraid? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, guys, we've seen the last couple of years. Like, we see what happens when they get a little bit too much dip on their chip. Shit gets wild to crazy. I think a Mr. Joel Schumacher made a pretty comic book accurate.

Batman and Robin, thank you very much. I mean, I would agree. It wasn't comic book accurate at all. Well, I think it was. I think it actually was. It's about Batman and Robin, that movie? Yes. Oh, that's not, that was not a, that was not a real depiction.

You're telling me that's not, like, exactly out of, like, a 1970s comic book. Did you hear what I just said? Yeah. That movie came out in, like, fucking 1996 or 97. Yeah. The, the Batman that they were giving you was literally a Batman that hadn't really been in the comic books for 30 years. I know.

So that's what. that's what fans are asking for now. No, they're not. Not, not, not, I'm not, I'm not understanding you guys. What I'm saying is he came out there and he had Batman and Robin playing hockey with a diamond and all of that. That hadn't, Batman had to be in. I love that shit.

It's the 60s since Adam West. I know, yeah. Sometimes you get rid of the ball. I know that fans don't, aren't asking for Batman to be playing hockey, but sometimes when they're like, Matt Reeves, why don't you want to do Clayface? I'm like, would that even be something that you would want to see from Matt Reeves.

Okay. So the scarecrow that was that that they... Daniel Day Lewis, that's Clayface. Come on. The scarecrow that they had... Get him out of the cobbler. The scarecrow that they had in

in Nolan's Batman was just fine. Yeah. It was a guy who he can make you hallucinate whole thing. It was just fine. It was terrifying. He had the fucking thing on. The whole not... Look, give you an example of a villain.

They made the last Riddler a serial killer. Yeah. Right? he does riddles he got to do the riddles or he not the riddler okay so Joker did what Joker does

no Joker told fucking jokes he had an obnoxious laugh he was an agent of chaos he was a real joker you got to see and I think it was a real joke you gotta do the riddles if you you got to do the riddles

you're a riddler so he so you can do whatever you want he's in riddles switch chat like you can be an environmental You all didn't tell me one thing that made this Joker on Joker like. He didn't just scheme. The Joker got a scheme. He did scheme.

He's a schemer. He did scheme. He brought a gun to the show. No, it's not scheming enough. It's not scheming, all right, man. He got a scheme, and I think you talk about it. If I'm going to be real, the Joker is a criminal mastermind. Where were the penguins in the penguin?

What? My penguin. Where were the penguins? Where are little waddly holies? Yeah, you're not being serious. No, no, no, no, no, no, because that's the argument. I'm not talking about that. Joker is a criminal.

If I see the penguin, I want to see, I want to see some penguins walking around. Ken is the most important thing about the Joker. His superpower is that he's a criminal mastermind. No? You're telling you the number one, by the way. The number one thing that makes the Joker, the Joker, is that he's a criminal mastermind.

That's the number one thing, bro. He's a criminal mastermind. He's the greatest villain. He's a criminal mastermind. All right, you got it, bro. If the Joker don't... No, we're saying the number one trait for the Joker to have. He's a criminal...

He's the most dangerous criminal mastermind. There's... No, no. Criminal mastermind. I'm a criminal... No, he... Sometimes the Joker is a criminal mastermind. Nah, he always is.

He's a criminal mastermind. I think the thing, and you mentioned a little bit, like, the Joker does some Junker stuff. I think the entire problem with this movie, what it says about mental illness, what it says about wealth inequality, the entire thing, is that it just says it

and thinks it's saying something about it. And it says nothing. And it says nothing. Yeah. Well, you are absolutely right. I 100% agree with you. You want to know what else does that? The other 99% of comic book movies that we talk about.

Yeah, but they're not positioned as like, oh, man, we're going to go deep into this, man. Yeah, and this one's got fucking Oscars. Whoa, here, no, whoa. It's not this movie's fault. they wanted to throw a bunch of Oscars at it. Here's what I'll say. So it's a really good performance.

It's a really like, people are asking his assing his ass off. He's doing his thing. Even as the Joker hater, he's absolutely doing his ass. And you guys are 100% right. There were times in this movie where what it does or does not say

about mental health and the wealth which is goose egg, zero, nothing. What's the first ability of the Joker? We're talking about a bill. Chris criminal mastermind. It does say that. Put that up on the screen.

Screenshot the Wikipedia. Put that up on the screen. Put that up on the screen. The first thing, criminal mastermind. He's a criminal master. Okay, well, wait. In the DC universe, the Joker is portrayed as a what? Criminal mastermind.

Criminal mastermind. And the antithesis of Batman and personality and appearance. He's a criminal mastermind. So you're telling me in every single betrayal that we've seen of the Joker, whether it is in comic books, TV. or movies. The only thing fucking Joker has ever been

is a criminal master. I never said the only thing but I'm saying it's one thing he has to be. It's not one thing. Let me tell you something. Let's say. If he's not that every single day.

What? Oh my God. Steve. Oh, stand up, bro. Man, what? Stand up, Steve. Why do you have a burrito in your pocket?

This motherfucker got beans. This nigga. Why do you have a burrito in your pocket, Steve? It's a taco. First of all. Like that makes it better That's see what I'm saying

That's some white He's a taco mastermind You want to know what it is like Some sociopath white boy shit To have a warm Fucking burrito in your pocket And then eat that shit I'm not gonna lie

He bricked up with a burrito I'm crazy I'm not gonna lie He bricked up with a burrito bro Why would you put the Why would you put the burrito in Can I explain? Can I explain? Why?

All right so we got the tacos here Yeah I was in a rush to come into the studio. I was grabbing all of my stuff, put the breeder on my pocket, was going to put it down, legitimately forgot it was in my pocket. That's actually disgusting.

It's wrapped. But it's on your thigh, though. Yeah, bro. Here's the thing, eating, eating a warm, because here's a thing, eating a warm thigh, taco, come on, man. You didn't thigh microwave or taco.

That's nasty. That's nuts, man. A thine is a lot of meat tacos crazy. Here's a thing, you're going to be going club after this one of you're like club it's a Wednesday what are you talking about what is that sancho who smell like you smell like

guys I was a mess risky who anyway we want to give this a minute and we can't record late again no bro hold on real quick it won a lot of awards

no it won two Academy Awards these were all of the Academy Awards that was nominated for okay go for it Best picture, best director, best actor, best adapted screenplay, best cinematography, best costume design, film editing, makeup and hairstyling, original score, sound editing, and sound mixing. And it went for score and best actor. Best actor. 20, 20, harbinger of things to come.

Yeah. So, all right, but here's a thing. Who was Joaquin competing against? He was up against Leo for once upon a time in Hollywood. Okay. Adam Driver in Marriage Story. Okay. Antonio Banderas

and Pain and Glory did not see that. Never saw that before. And then Jonathan Price and the two popes. Good for Antonio Banderas. I didn't realize he had had a best actor.

Oh, he's, yeah, he's been running around. Here's what I'll say. I am not a fan of superhero movie saying over the Oscars.

I don't think they ever will, but when it happens or they try to make it happen, I'm like, get this fuck out of here. But that's not the strongest year. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's definitely a week year.

Yeah. I don't know. It's a thing year. It's not my favorite performance of the year, but when you look at the category, you're like, yeah, all right. I do think if, like, you cast anybody other than Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker in that movie,

like, we're talking about it as, like, one of the worst films. Yeah. Like, of the decade. I just don't agree. I can understand it. I just don't agree. I think the movie itself is fine. I think the movie only fails as an exploration into Gotham.

I think it's deserving of, like, all of that is very well acted. it's well-paced. Like there's a movie called Falling Down. Oh, yeah. Michael Douglas. Michael Douglas, where he just fucking goes nuts. That's a great movie.

In the movie, that movie is kind of a poor man's joker in a way. I like that movie a lot. Because it doesn't have a prestige. Sure, but like, I don't know. You got to your point, this is not a, this is a funny movie to me. This isn't like a rewatchable movie to me. This is a very, like, depressing ass. I had to posit multiple.

times. I literally, I was watching, brother. Three and a half hours. I was, I'm in the office. I'm trying to watch it. The scene after shoots the three dudes, I had to pause. It took like a 10, 15 minute break. After the Zazi Beats review, I took like 90 minutes.

Greatest, greatest twist. Oh my God. Because you know what's happening. Here's a thing. And it's also, you know, Arthur, shout out to him. He's going through a lot. But he has, he's lucid enough to be like, if I'm going to be clapping any cheeks, it's going to be.

Tell me, I was with you. Nuts. I'll say this a time. I do like that he make-believe the black lady. Yeah. With a child. Make-believe the black lady is crazy.

Yeah, he was. The fact that he, in his dreams, that it was a sister, that means something to me. But he did also fuck over Paperboy. Paperboy was trying to help him out. And he read the shit. I forgot he was in it.

I forgot. I told him watching it. He's in it. Shea Wingham's in it? Very odd. Shout off. Hey, wing him? Aw, it shows up.

I'm like, for five minutes. Were they just chilling on the set of Atlanta? Right. And then she went, hey, we need you for a day. Lakeitha, Brian, come back. It's not like he wasn't a... And it's not like he wasn't a man, man, man. No, yeah.

Like, it's... I was surprised. It's not even like, I was like, your agent, do you think he got this role maybe season one of Atlanta? Could be. Or signed up early and was that, damn, all right. He was scheming to be a.

good opportunity. I mean, he's been in a lot. Okay, so Eternals comes out the year after that, right? 20, 21. Well, this came out 2019. So then it would have to be like, yeah, two years. So yeah, he was messing around doing stuff. I just, I thought he would be, I thought he would have more to doing it. Look, the Joker is not a very enjoyable movie, but not

every movie that is super good is enjoyable. Right. Like, I watch there will be blood all the time. A lot of people say that's not an enjoyable movie. I watch it all the time. I think it's It is one of the greatest movies of all time. What mental space are you in? Why are you at? Yeah, no.

We turn on. Let's lock in. Did you have a very good day? First of all, there are several scenes in that movie that are, like Charles, you say the Joker's funny.

There are several scenes. Trained. There are several scenes in, and there will be blood that are laugh out loud, funny. I'm going to come over to your house tonight and kill you

while you're sleeping. And the people from Standard Auto are like, what the fuck are you talking about, Daniel? Why are you saying that you're going to come over to my house and kill me while I'm sleeping? Think about it. And walks out of the fucking face. Like, he's, he's, he's, he's nuts. It's kind of the same type of movie. Uh, no, it, bro.

This is the hottest steak ever. There will be blood. There will be. There will be. But it's kind of the same movie. Wait, wait, wait, wait. You don't think that there will be blood is about Daniel Plainview's dissent into madness as the competition to be the greatest oil man

and all of that stuff? Right, but that's like over his entire life. Yeah, but that's like a profoundly deep and emotional look into like the pitfalls of greed and capitalism. I wasn't equating the movies in terms of their societal merit. I'm just saying

he gets crazier and crazier throughout the entire movie to the point to where he murders two niggas in that movie. It's kind of like this and at the end of the fucking film he beats the devil with the fucking bowling Pin. Yeah, no, just nuts.

Does he dance down some staircases, though? He doesn't. To me, this is just taxi driver and he's wearing a Joker Fortnite skin. That's all that I... But also, we gotta stop. It's a fantastic movie.

Yeah, I know. Yeah, but it's a cover story, though. It's a cover of that. And here's the thing. That's what a lot of these movies are now, which is just like, every superhero movie we get now, the directors are doing that director bullshit

where they're just like, you know what? This is just my 70s, blah, blah, blah, and they drop some Scorsese movie, and you're just like, well, fucking, you made it awkward, man. Logan is a Western. Yeah. Winner Soldier is an unforgiving.

Yeah, it's just... I mean, look, it depends on... This is what I'm saying. I have no problem with somebody doing a movie like that and doing a genre take on the movie. Yeah. I don't doing an homage. As long as Captain America doesn't fly in the movie.

Meaning as long as it's a Captain America movie. Like, as long as in the film... So Anthony Mackey can't fly? You got wings. You know what I'm saying? He's a man. By the way. What?

You said Captain America can't fly. I'm asking. No, no, no. I'm saying for you, you might want to make that right. Okay. There's been some talk. Oh, talking to town.

Talk in the town? It's been some talk. Is it time for a peace talks? There's some talk about appearances and things like that. You might want to make that right. We might have to have, remember when Obama had the beer summit?

Oh, wow. I remember when Obama sat down and had a beer with the fucking police that tried to fucking shoot up the president of Harvard or whatever the fuck happened or Obama was like, let's get down and have a beer and talk about racism. Who was in the beer summit?

Let me see. It was him, Biden. Who are these people? So the Beer Summit is him. So that's the guy right there. That's the, that's the, he was the president of Harvard. What was his name?

Oh, man. Oh, yes. He wasn't the president of Harvard. He was like the president of the, of the some kind of dean of Harvard. Henry Lewis Gates. Oh, the fucking

the guy, the guy from the show. So he would, he, from roots. Yeah, the guy from the funny room. And then Sergeant James Crowley. So Henry Lewis Gates had come home. Yeah, yeah. Or he was going to his house or something like that. And he was going into his own house.

Yeah. And the cop didn't think that he lived there. Yes. And so the cop didn't think that he lived there. And he's like, the dude, it's like, this is my crib. Fuck out of my crib. And the cop was fucking over him in his own house. and rather than deal with it, Obama was like,

let's everybody have a beer together. Who am I in this scenario with Anthony Beckie? You're definitely a cop, yeah. Are we going to have it on the pod? Can we have it on the pod? Beer summit on the pod? That man wasn't doing nothing to you.

I said, I believe in him. The rest of the world, don't. That's not true. That's wow. Okay, you just doubled down. Here's summit over. No, we're going to have a beer summit here, but you know what's going to happen.

if he does come on the podcast, I'm gonna let him be himself. I'm gonna see if you can handle the heat. No, that's when Charles hops out. No, he won't opt out. You can't opt out. Honestly, one thing, one thing about Charles, I'll say this. Charles ain't no ho.

You don't back down. Standing on this. You're gonna stay up. Ted toes. Stand on 10 toes. One man, aren't what you want about him. You don't back down. All right, so Joker, we saw it.

Are we excited for following you do? No. Absolutely not. Let's go. Hell no. So you're going to say the same movie, but they're going to add faking into it? I'm not there, buddy. I am very excited to see, to have Lady Gaga elevate this material.

Y'all are acting like Joker's out of top five comic book villain movie. Okay. I mean, it's not all right. But the movie's good. The movie's good. No. It's not great. Whoa.

The movie is not even, the movie is not even at the bottom level of some of the movies we've seen while we've been doing this. I don't like it. fair, but like, just because it's shot well and has a good score and a good lead performance, it doesn't make... It has a great, one of the greatest acting performances of the last couple years and a good score

and it looks pretty good. Wouldn't call it that. I don't like it. Y'all motherfuckold. Y'all was talking about. Act, 45 minutes ago. Come on. You opt-it out, bro. You don't even hear it. I didn't even hear. But, you know, I do, I will say before we got out of here, that I do think some of the people that are talking about how bad of a movie Joker are. I'm not saying to you guys.

And there's some people out there that are reacting to a cultural feeling about the movie. And a cultural criticism about the movie that to me either transcends or supersedes an actual critical opinion of the film itself. I'm not saying that there aren't people out there.

I'm not superimposing my opinions on anyone else. And it feels like I'm doing that. I apologize. I'm not saying that are people out there that weren't literally disgusted, legitimately, should I say, disgusted by some of the stuff that were going on in the movie

and couldn't fuck with it. And I will say this, and in defense of that, I think that there can be bad faith interpretations of this movie, regardless of whether or not it ends up being an opinion

that I agree with. People can hate this movie for the wrong, what I could think are like the wrong reasons or bad faith reasons. Like, I don't think that this is legitimately like,

like, in cell glorification or anything having to do with a certain, like, social agenda that I personally don't disagree with. I don't think this movie's smart enough to have a social agenda. I didn't want to be mean,

but I'm like, if people can feel the way I felt, I felt, even before I saw it, I was like, it took me forever to see. I saw this year. I was like, fuck Joker. There is a level, no shots. This is a great looking movie. Shout to everyone who made it.

To your point, Steve, I don't know if this movie is deep enough to even have, like to even get that. That's exactly my point, though. And that's our problem with it. It's like, it stands, it acts like a much. taller movie. It stands a lot higher than it actually is. I actually don't think Todd Phillips

probably thinks that. I think it's like, no, but like, I think people treated it like that. There was an annoying contingent that acted like this was one of the greatest cinematic achievements of all time or that I can't think of that. I think it was that and also the people who were like, this is detrimental, you know, it sells all this. I left the movie going like, bro, was this what y'all was worried about? Like, it's just stupid. I just think it's that. I, I, Number one, I agree with you guys. Number one, I think Todd Phillips thinks that he made The Godfather. You think?

Well, I have some really bad things. He's making Godfather part three right now. Let's not act like Todd got some classics. The Hangover? Todd is a great thing. Todd got some great. Hangover two. But I do think, though, that the movie does examine the, like, it does have something.

To your point, to say about systemic failure in society. and what that means for people who need a little bit of extra help or maybe a little bit of extra monitoring. I will say, the last thing I'll say about this film, they never make movies like this with black leads, right? Like, so anytime there's a black lead in a movie

that kind of snaps, there's always, so the only movies I can think about this was like Samuel Jackson movies, maybe like, what's the movie with Samuel Jackson where him and Ben Affleck are going back and forth with each other? Remember this movie?

Did y'all see this? Y'all didn't see this one? Samuel Jackson. Changing lanes? Changing lanes. So there's a movie where Samuel Jackson and Ben Affleck have some kind of run in where Ben Affleck is a lawyer and he's supposed to file some kind of paper or do something. I've spent a long time since I've seen that he doesn't do it.

And he fucks over Sam Jackson in a way, a major inconvenience and Sam Jackson spends the rest of the movie fucking with him. Yeah. Right. Taking his tires off his car, doing crazy stuff. And then another Sam Jackson movie is a movie called 187. where he's a teacher in an L.A. school and early on in the movie

Method Man stabs him while he's in New York and he's dealing with these gangs in this L.A. school and he decides to fight back. Maybe you could argue that those two performances as far as films that I'm thinking of are somebody's deceit and descent into madness. But what you don't see are films with black leads just mad at society

and fucking everything up. And that's because, in my opinion every I'm not going to get into a whole thing No talk your shit No no no I'm not going to get into a whole thing Talk your shit bro

But when we when like when we see these movies About Particularly white guys White leads that are just super mad Because the society That they essentially built Isn't working for them It's always

It always tickles me a little bit Like it always tickles me a little bit Like it always tickles me a little a little bit because what these movies do a lot of the time, even falling down, you empathize with that character. Yeah. He's got a lot going on personally. He's stuck in fucking traffic.

He's talking about the fact that the fucking Big Mac don't look the way he runs into these guys. These gang members, he takes their tech nine. And he just, he's had enough with the bullshit world that he lives in until he's dead at the end of the movie. Joker, same thing. Taxi driver, same thing. With everything else that all minority.

and indigenous people are going through, there's never a movie that, like, gives to their rage and pours into their rage and makes the movie go in public think that there's something about their life that would trigger them to do a whole bunch of shit like that. Because it doesn't want to actually, to me, I think people are uncomfortable actually investigating

the pent-up rage of people that don't have the power to control of society. Oh, I mean, I agree with this totally, but don't you think this is a larger thing like they don't let black or any people of color even get half the time to this level of nuance in most genres if you think about it. Like how many like truly like black rom-coms

compared to white rom-coms do we have where it's just like, oh, this black, these black people can fall in love and there's no fucking big ass like generational trauma shit that we got to throw in there just to be like, it's RBM, it's like you, You kind of have to be the majority. You definitely have to be the majority to get these type of movies.

Culturally, you would say? Well, no, no, no. I'm saying for Hollywood and the people who give money out for movies like this, they have so many movies of white men descending into madness to be like, hey, like, yeah, this is something that we're used to as a society. When you brought up that, like, how many descent into madness movies do we have for black people? I literally was like sitting here. It was like, just thinking.

And not even one. And I'm just like because it takes a certain level of, okay, we're not afraid of this character. When you see a white man on screen, you're just like, oh, you're trained to be like, oh, it's okay if he's a little angry. It's okay if he's not okay. I sympathize with them. We don't get that a lot of times. Yeah, because we don't have people don't empathize, right? They see a white man on screen.

They're like, oh, man, we feel bad for that. It's not his fault. Black man gone crazy. So, oh. I mean, here's the thing. Not to bring it up. I like, I like this movie a lot. It was a little bullshit when I was watching Rebel Ridge.

I'm like, this man's getting busy, but there's also a lot. He had a reason. Right, yeah. They, they, you know, they fucking forced his hand. They did. To be honest, would you, he did not kick nearly as much ass in that movie as I thought. That's my biggest, my biggest note was I was like, you could have went a lot harder. Here's the thing, if that was the niggins from Jack Reacher.

Oh, yeah. Scorcher. Scorcher. You know? Bro, they fought over him so bad. We should have done Rebel Ridge because he, that's my Black Batman. That's a good movie. I like that movie, a lot.

I think he could play him. He can't play John Stewart? They got, they said, uh, they got Damson trying to play John Stewart or John Stewart. We got to go. You don't want no words? No, no, I like it. I like it. We got to do the Midnight Meter.

We got to do the Midnight Meter. All right, midnight meter, because we have to get out of here really quick. proprietary midnight scaling technology. one to ten normal one being the worst 10 being the best we reserve 11 and 12 for true game changers Mint boy start us off Jomey

I'm giving it a 5 oh wow oh man you got you got the you know it's it's shot on a camera and it's screened in the theater which set it counts as a film and then walking Phoenix's portrayal of the Joker you know really

gives it a boost I'm giving it a fuss when we do the fucking midnight mulligan, bro. This is a five is insane. I'm never watching this movie again. No, yeah. I'm never watching this movie again. Steve. Four. For those exact same reasons that Joey said.

Shotwell, walking Phoenix. I can't give the movie anything lower than a nine. A nine. It's just a... What? It's a good movie. That's glazing. It's not a movie.

It's not a movie for me. I would have you to give it like a seven or a... It's not a thing. It's not a... It's not a movie. It is. To me, it is. It's not a movie for me. It's all those things, but it's excellent filmmaking.

And so I can't get the movie anything less than I. It's a really fantastic film that's just not for me. So I got to be objective. I get what y'all saying, but I can't get the movie anything lower than a nine. So this is going to be a score high praise for me, even if the number doesn't sound like this. I'm giving this a very, very, very, very strong seven. Like, I think that this is like, I don't. politically aligned with the movie, but entertainment-wise,

Joaquin's performance, it's a seven. The thing that stops it from being an eight is, I can't co-sign all the white bullshit that's going on. I get it. You know, like, but. Strong seven. I get it. I'm divorcing myself away from, like, all of that stuff and just go,

you know, when I saw a joke, the Revenant, the Revenant is not an offensive movie. Mm-hmm. I saw the Revenue at one time. Never again. Same. Like, never again. Amazing film.

Amazing shot. Amazing action. Kinetic Story. I'm not watching him. With that bear. That's not what happens. I'm saying, I'll never look at that film again. I felt basically cold in my bones watching that movie.

This to me is the Cohen Brothers movie. What's the one with Oscar Isaac? I never saw it. Lewin Davis. Oh, inside Louan Davis? Yeah, he's just getting fucked over the whole movie. I'm like, all right, I can't do this. Yeah.

I'm just like, I can't. All this is. The movie right now is a reverend and good. Yeah, it's excellent. Not for Van. Bear, fucking cold. Tom Hardy shooting each other. Yeah.

week the House of Arr will give you their deep dive on the latest episodes of rings of power and Agatha all along. Joe! I want to talk to you, Joe, about young Griff and Agon, Targaryen, Riverlands, Heron-Hallon-Hallon-the-Black, Barathean family. You know the Baratheans and Targaryians are related. Do you know that? Everybody in West Rosas.

I mean, we're all technically related if we go back far enough. It's bastards and they were together and all of that. I want to do, I like it. I like all of Game of Thrones. Then, I can tell you this. I'm getting started on Lord of the Rings lore in October. Really? Yep.

Oh, your brother's so happy. My brother's so happy. It's Friday, Button Ash, we'll be back to talk about the latest Legend of Zelda game, which Steve doesn't know anything about. And on Saturday, Ring of Verse recommends returns with our best Rex the month of September. Our producer is Steve the architect, Alman. Jonathan, chocolate drop, Mr. Midnight, Herma.

Okay, I apologize. Alea O'Brien Zanaris Jal me the Explaner at dinner on Actually, join me the milk merchant a dinner on Can't do this. Jomi the brick buster Brick Buster Oh, wow

Bucs! No! On social, Jome King Phoenix! Hashtag Jome King Phoenix This show of production from De Wacha Arjuna, Raja, Arjuna Ramaa, Chuck, pick us out.

Steve got a taco in his pocket. Joe can't be to pick up the line and roll out with your boy, Mr. Optal to Miss Bride. That's like the Lady Gaga's American Gangster. Remember when the whole, made a whole album like he was Frank Lucas? Well, let's wait for the movie to be good. All right. Because that's a good movie, American Gangster.

Stop acting like y'all wasn't dancing, a lady. Well, Lady Gaga got some choice. I never said, I never. No, I never said nothing that would have concentrated. I don't know how many good. Which one? Alejandro. Oh.

Oh, that's my shit. That's my... That's my... That's my... Come on, bro. Well, songs are really good. Songs are good. I remember applause.

Just dance. Oh, applause is so good. Just dance. Hey, you know what else I like... So, applause is good. Because that's a really good one. I want to eat fun. So Alejandro is good.

I like bad romance a lot. Obviously, that romance is good. I just dig it. I like bad romance is good. But then I also like... Sia songs. Oh, you like Sia? I love Sia.

Was that one, Tainted Heart? What is it called? Wilted Heart? I'm a, she talks about she's a Untated, whatever, fucking. She got that chandelier joint, right? Oh, my God. She brought Sia.

Italy. Think about what it must feel like to be in the studio making chandelier. Or just the engineer just be like, damn, she's going for it. Boy, I'll just be in the fucking room beat pill all the way up. Beepill's crazy.

Beat pill all the way up. You're in the studio. Why would you need a beat pill? I'm talking about myself. Okay. All right. See you.