The Ringer-Verse - 'Ahsoka’ Episode 4 Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

The fallen Jedi will rise again, and so must the Midnight Boys! They are here to give their instant reactions to this week's episode of 'Ahsoka' (07:34). They also dive into the epic conflict between Ahsoka and Baylan in the emotional crescendo of this episode and how it was executed (44:57). Plus, all of the great Easter eggs in the World Between Worlds. Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Steve Ahlman, and Jomi Adeniran Social: Jomi Adeniran Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone. I'm Mallory Rubin and I am thrilled to tell you that House of Ar has a new podcast feed. Joanna Robinson and I will now be with you twice a week with more of the deep dives you've come to know and love on the ring of universe. In addition to exploring all of your favorite nerd culture new releases, we'll have nostalgic revisitations, height meters, Hall of Fame inductions, tropes courses, drafts, and more. All bad babies are welcome as we dive into Star Wars, Marvel, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, and beyond. Follow the new House of Our feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer.

You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Welcome into the Ringiverse. This is, of course, the Ringers Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are. Steve, the architect Alman, Brian Early, up doing this thing. We are. Show me the explainer or dinner on.

You've got questions. He's going to answer. Maybe. Depends. We are. Old Man, Van, he of the receding resurgent hairline. Not resurgent yet. It hasn't been resurgent in two and a half of years.

Yeah. When's the date? Do we have a date? That's the thing. We have to discuss that. The resurgence coming back, but I might have to have a little downtime. We are Coke Baby Chuck. He who will eat a full helping of crow on this episode today. Together we are known as of the Midnight Boys.

All right. We got follow us on social. that's very important. TikTok, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, save Jomi's job. Jomi, what's going on on socials? Give us a socials update. So, ah, man, socials is doing great, man.

We're in a happy place right now on pretty much all platforms except for Twitter, but who's happy on Twitter these days? You know what I'm saying? Again, thank you guys for continuing to follow and like all the stuff that I make. I appreciate it. You know?

It means a lot. You believe in yourself? I do. I have to because nobody else does. What the fuck are you talking about? What was there? Like, what do you mean? I saw motivation, you know what I'm saying?

If I don't believe me. No, that's just sad, man. Oh, you, you subscribe to the Drake theory. That's right. To where you walk around going, no one ever told you you could do it. No one ever believed in you. I'm not supposed to be here?

Don't be a struggle rapper. Try to tell us your kindergarten teacher never believed in you. All my teachers told me. I wasn't going to be shit. I was supposed to be here. Okay, whatever guys. All right, rappers.

All right, rappers. We know you overcame. All right, guys. I want one teacher to come out one day, be like, yeah, I really didn't believe in that little nigger. No, I wanted to be the opposite. This is him with the school participation trophy. This is him with.

I want it to be opposite. I wanted the teacher to come out to be like, I don't know what this nigger is on. I always. beliefs in his nigger. As a matter of fact, here is me and him in the third grade. It's this PS-141, 1993. This is me telling him verbatim, hey, Jay, I believe in you. I want

that to go wrong. That's what I want to see. All right. Okay, so yesterday, Charles, Jessica Clemens, and Justin Charity discussed Netflix's live action One Piece, aka the Dallas Cowboys show. What? It's the Dallas Cowboys show. You never going to get it.

You guys put me off the One Piece. I'm not going to lie, bro. I don't know what would get you on the One Piece to begin with. All right. Can we be positive this episode? Okay, I came in Raring to Go and you're shitting on One Piece. Can we? Oh, I'm not shitting on One Piece.

I'm sure One Piece is a great show. I'm making an observation. Is that y'all, y'all told me that it's been 30 years of somebody and never found a One Piece. which is, you know, that's the thing. I'm sure One Piece is great. I'm not hating on One Piece. I'm just saying that's kind of off-putting about the One Piece. But you guys did a live-action One Piece.

You guys all had a lot of fun this Friday. Button Match returns with the RPG blowout with Balders Gate 3 in Starfield. All right, Steve, that was in the document last time. Is that true? Yes, it's since moved to Friday. It's moved to Friday. Okay. Move to Friday.

It's going to be. Yes, yes, yeah. You were trying to come at Steve. You thought Steve was slipping. No, because I just know if I do a read. I understand. I understand. You know what I mean?

I want to make sure. I'm going to catch it there. All right, make it easy for the guys in post. Good host. Next week, Min Edition returns to discuss the new season of Harley Quinn, which is a show that you guys very much enjoy over there on me in Min Edition. Is that not true? Yes, we do.

Yes, we do. Venture Brothers style Harley Quinn R-rated shit. Yes, sir. I've been just getting into Venture Brothers. It's a great show. It's great show. You like it? I've never watched Adventure Bros.

brothers. What goes on on the show? Imagine like a Johnny Quest type of show but it's a kid that grew up as a Johnny Quest guy and then he has his own kids and those kids are even worse.

Now explain Johnny Quest. Johnny Quest is. Johnny Quest is. Johnny Quest is awesome. I know Johnny Quest is. Wait. Johnny Quest is awesome. I like Johnny Quest wasn't funny but Johnny Quest was, I like Johnny Quest. there was an episode of

of Harvey Birdman, attorney of law. Yeah, that show's funny. You put me on a... Van, you put me on to that. That show's hilarious. Harvey Birdman's great. Harvey Birdman,

where they had the Johnny Quist characters on there. It was hysterical. Like, it was hysterical. Harvey... When Fred Flintstone is Tony's soprano, that's the best thing ever. Love, Harvey Birdman is great. Okay.

On today's show, we're going to take all of this great energy of talking about things that we love, and we're going to channel it into the fourth episode of Asoka, a fallen Jedi. Now look, you guys, we're going to be talking about the fourth episode of Asoka, which means we have to kind of touch on everything that's happened before this. That might be Clone Wars,

that might be rebels, that might be the original trilogy, that might be Book of Boba Fett, that might be the Mandalorian, that might be all of your extended universe lore, legend stuff. That might be all the little comic books that you read. There might be some of the stupendous wave

and generation tech videos that you've watched over on the YouTube. All of that stuff together, we're going to spoil it because this is an instant reaction show and we got to talk about stuff that came before. All right? Who knows what we might spoil? We might fucking get into a conversation about the Batman, which you guys haven't had quality three hours to watch this came out,

and that might get spoiled. Oh, can we get to the show? Nope. You're looking for something to complain about because you know that you don't have anything. Why do you keep attacking me? What is going on with you today? What is this energy? You're trying to stir the pot. Stop trying to stir the pot. Nobody's attacking. This is just going to be fun. It's going to be fun. And I'm going to have fun. And you're not going to stop it. How about that? We're the all couple of nerds podcasting. And you're not going to stop this. Okay. Steve Roller's spoiler warning. We're getting ready to talk about Asoka. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming.

All right. To begin our reactions, we have to go to Chuck, who's going to put you in the know on this episode, episode four Fallen Jedi. In order to do that, he's got to give you the Midnight Manifest. Chuck, take it away. All right, this is your Midnight Manifest for Asoka, episode four, Fallen Jedi, directed by Peter Ramsey,

written by Dave Lerone. Asoka has a heart-to-heartless opinion about the possibility that to stop Morgan and Skull from finding Thrawn, they might lead to destroy their only chance of finding Ezra. Osok and Sabine fight their way through Skull's forces until they need Shin and Merrick. Sabine goes off to fight Shin while Osoka dispatches a merit. Meanwhile, Skull and Morgan are on the precipice of getting the cordonists that should lead

to Thrawn. When Asoka meets Skull, the two masters duel over the map, but Asoka is distracted when Shin arrives instead of Sabine. Assoc, Osoka force pushes Shin away from the map in time for Sabine to grab it instead. Asoka tells Sabine to destroy the map, but she hesitates. Skull used this moment to knock Asoka off the cliff before convincing Sabine that she will be under his production and that he will lead her to Ezra as long as she hands over the map. Harrow brings a small ragtag group of New Republic fighters to Asoka and is Sabine's location, but it's too late. The ships are caught in hyperspace ring and there are casualties.

Asoka wakes up in the world between worlds and is greeted by her old master, Anakin Skywalker. And this is your midnight manifest for Asoka, episode 4. Let's get to it, baby. Rick Flair. Let's get to it. Midnight Boys, United. What do we like? Charles? Start with you.

Everything. We're back. Everything. We're back. Tentendend no notes. You know? Hey, guys, the episode fucking did it. Chills.

Had to run that shit back this morning. I never watched these episodes twice. I'm like, I woke up so happy in the morning. I'm like, all right, yeah, let's turn on Asoka. like, let's do this again. I, when Asoka premiered in live action in Vando season two

and we're all like, damn, like, what would our own series be like? What would it be like to watch this? Are we going to get this every week? Obviously, we did not. But this episode to me fulfilled that promise of seeing Assoca in live action for the first time and getting to see a character

be this badass, the tone, the atmosphere of this episode, and even just the emotion. I think we talked a lot kind of last episode about momentum. And this felt like the first episode to me where it was momentum in every single regard. It was plot. It was the narrative and how people were talking, but it was just the emotion. I felt like I finally really understood what was driving Asoka and what was driving Sabine

in a real, real, real way. and yeah, Peter Ramsey killed it. I just, I'm fucking on a high. What can I say? I love this episode. What about you, Ben? I loved it as well. It was absolute heat.

Ran it back three times in a row. Here's the deal. I want to stay here for a second. Before I jump over to the Mint Boys, I want to stay here. I love the episode. I thought the episode was perfectly paced, like literally not a shred of fat. Meat, meat, meat, meat, meat, meat. Meat lover over there.

Don't let Cameron and Macy that. All right. Oh, my God. And just meaningful stuff. We've talked about this before in terms of not just what an action scene has to do on the screen, but what it has to mean for character. And there was a lot of character work happening in this episode. This was a fantastic character episode for Sabine, maybe more than anyone, some shocking stuff. An incredible character episode for Baylon.

Man, oh, man, did he grow as a Star Wars villain in this episode? Man, Jesus. Baylon is proving his medal, not just with his lightsaber and his force ability. Still kind of unclear what exactly he wants, but that's actually part of the intrigue now. but for him to be able to essentially seduce Sabine and turn her, wow. Wow, turn her in the way that she's been turned. Wow, fantastic scene. Didn't need his lightsaber.

Didn't need to use the wisdom and the manipulation of a true dark cider, the dark, gray, whatever, to seduce her with what she wanted. Like, it's amazing, right? But I do want to, before we move to the men boys, I do want maybe to crystallize with you, Charles, a little bit. What worked about this episode as opposed to some of the other ones before, even more so than what you said. What do you feel like, and maybe what was the moment to where you looked at this and you went,

they're getting it right? Like what was working for you here specifically? What changed about the show? I think just immediately it was what I was seeing on screen. I think the cinematography on this episode was just another level. I think tonally, I was, I think for at least the first three, I think Faloni and company really were trying to figure out how do we get these animated characters visually on screen and make them real?

And this episode, because we were on a planet, the red trees looked, beautiful and amazing. There was this hazy greatness to it. It felt, it felt as serious as the emotions that were playing out on screen. And I have to shout out, Ramsey, the cinematographer, everybody. This was like the first episode that to me, I was like, this looks good. This could be a fucking movie. But I think deeper than that, you already touched upon it. This is the episode where instead of them telling me how important Asoka and Sabine were, I felt it. When Huang is basically like, hey, you guys make sure you stick together, you guys were always better that way.

I got chills. Like that one line and the way that they look at each other and they kind of smile, that did more than the previous three episodes and making me be like, okay, they, you know, they love each other. And I do think that, like, what this episode just, nail so, so, so perfectly is that at every given point, you know what there's a surprise, but they're setting up essentially like the emotional beats

that are going to make you care. Because when he's like, don't split up, I'm like, damn, they're going to split up. Even in the beginning of the episode when Asok and Sabine are talking, for the first time it crystallized to me, I'm like, these two want the same thing, but they want it in completely different ways. Asoka is a true soldier. She went through war in a way that, like, Sabine was a rebel.

Yeah, she was a general and she could lead forces. But to her, what we know from her, it's all about the emotion of finding Ezra. That is the mission. Mission accomplishment is finding Ezra in any way she knows how. It's a very emotional choice. And when Assoc is just like, hey, this can't be about emotions, mission accomplishment is making sure we never find Thrawn again. I was just like, I can get behind this. Like, I understand the underlying nature of why you guys are so similar and why you guys just cannot work together.

And that, it was just masterfully done. And hey, if it took us four episodes, it took us four episodes. But where we ended now, I just care so much more. Yeah. So a couple of things. So , Asoka's a Jedi, Sabine, isn't. There's at least part of Asoka that was taught to divorce herself of emotion, put it in the back, and think about the good of the galaxy. Yeah.

The greater good of the galaxy. Sabin hasn't really gone through that. She, like, to your point, is a rebel. And in order to be a rebel, she had to make these close bonds with people and fight for them and their future as much as she had to for the galaxy. She had to fight for Ezra and Zeb and Canaan and Hera as much as she had to fight for the greater good of anything. Like, Asoko was around and doing the whole thing, fighting for the entire galaxy, the entire Republic before then.

This is Jedi. That's understand. So what she's like, can I count on you? She's asking her, can I count on you? I knew the answer was no. It much reminds me of something that was done in Infinity War. Finney War's got so many things going on. You got to beat Thanos.

All of that stuff is happening. But within there, there's also small little character stuff that's happening like between Star Lord and Gamora. So, yo, will you shoot me in the face if Thanos gets me? because I know where the Soulstone is. So that right there becomes not the whole thing, but just another thing that keeps you invest in whatever happens. You know that you're going to get another movie,

but you know that that point of contention between them is going to come back up. And right away, when she goes, Sabine, can I count on you, I knew that the answer was no. And that really meant something. That was the kind of things. And look, for me, when Hu Yang is down there

getting costed by the, assassin joys and he's like help help help that's the high stakes high leverage stuff i'm like somebody help who yang i'm like i'm screaming like i'm like screaming like i'm like screaming like somebody that my fucking got hands though i'm like god damn he literally has another set of hands he was but he was he was but he was getting he was doing this thing but he was just about to get washed and you know and he's just like no he wouldn't have done that it goes down there um And then from that point on, we're out, and we're in there like swimming where.

Men boys jump in. What do you guys think? I just want to say, first and foremost, everybody into the sign of my voice, you know. Last week, we was hearing, people were talking crazy last week. Star Wars is finished. They feel like he can't do it no more. Okay.

The best days are behind them. Now look at us. Now look at where we are. I told you, told you, have faith. believe the apologies must be as loud as the disrespect and all serious is though excellent episode of television incredible what um what uh

I don't want to say match because I don't want to like you know get all hyperbolic on here but legitimately you don't want to get hyperbolic what was everything that gave part of this joke there's a little something on the top now man this was a lot of fun this was like excellent TV this is why We come to see this stuff, you know? Like, like Van said,

the character moments between Sabine and Asoka really meant something. We learned something about Sabine and her family and why she is the way that she is with Asoka, right? I mean, the ending, we can talk about the ending for three hours, right? Like, oh, my gosh, you know what I mean? And then Ray Stevenson, oh, man, like, what a performance. Killing it. Absolutely doing.

What that motherfucker said. inevitable. I was like, all right, let's fucking go. I think you clearly got passed over for Thanos over Josh Roland. There was some sting in that inevitable. We were waiting for the villains to like, all right, cool. Like, we know that they pose a threat, but what kind of threat do they pose? And they are serious, serious, serious problem. And so I'm just really happy where we got in this episode.

They can't wait to see what comes next. Completely agree. To surmise in brief, I could definitely tell that this was a deft hand at the directing and cinematography front because like you said, Van, not an ounce of fat on this. And Peter Ramsey,

one of the directors of across the Spider-Verse, incredibly good at portraying character through motion and displaying emotion with that. To see Sabine's struggle to think about destroying the map as she is being seduced and convinced to not is something that shows don't really have the courage to do to just sit in that silence and sit in her facial expressions to just let that tell a story rather than constantly have to explain or constantly have to like tee something up for later. everything was on the screen here that was in the immediate and anything that was referenced prior was shown through facial expressions and motion and that takes a lot of skill to do

and God damn it this was a great episode with all of that skill on display. I'm going to come back to that Sabine, Baylon, Assoca scene because we've seen it, we've seen it before. And I want to tell you guys when we've seen it, I think Jomey knows.

We've seen it before. But I want to talk about something else here that really drove the plot of this forward, which was the action. This was action-packed, and it was fantastic action. The fight between Sabine and the Assassin Deroids was fantastic. That was amazing. Their teamwork together, once again, did more in just 30 seconds of being like, okay, like, I can understand why y'all were together.

That shit was lit. Right. You see what the utility of them is when they are a squad. Like, you see why it's a thing. Not just that we should believe that they could be together, but that they really should be. And it worked. But then we get into our individual breakouts.

We get into our 1V-1s. And I really enjoyed this part, man. I really enjoyed Asoka versus Merrick. who got snapped away. With his witch juice that was inside of him? That's got to be some Dathir, Night Sister, magic. Wait, I thought, is he just,

is he just like a night mist monster? Is that just what he is? I thought he was like a voodoo puppet or something from, like birth from a witch or something. Like he wasn't actually a real person. Like he was just this animated thing. Here's the thing. We don't know.

Yeah. But I can tell you, I can tell you one thing. It is infinitely more interesting than all of the things that we conjectured. That's true. It is infinitely more interesting than him being Galen Merrick or him being Ezra. The Ezra thing. Or Star Killer or anything like that.

All of that stuff. Like it was, it's just the fact that he's just some kind of soul husk being powered by weird witchcraft and magic. By the way, they're down on witchcraft in this episode. because Palin looks around and he goes Witchcraft. They hate witches. Jedi do not fuck with witches. It's like a low-lokey racist? Like I'm just like...

Oh, yeah. The witch community. The hocus pocus community needs to stand up. Stand up! Because they hate some witches. So you get Merrick and Asoka. Asoka is in her bad ass phase here. She's at her best.

He tries the fucking spinning lightsaber move. I do not know why they always go to it. When they go to the spinning lights of the move, they get fucked. Zero percent success rate. It never works. Inquisitors are jobbers of the Star Wars.

Yeah, but here's the thing. Every single time they spin it, like, they spend a beat being like, yo, look at how tight this shit is. It is cool looking, but it's also. No substance. It's got nothing. And it's never worked at all.

That's exactly like Inquisitors. They look cool. They're great to look at, but the end of the day, they accomplish absolutely nothing. You know, how many times are we going to see it? It's so funny because you see the fight.

He's actually holding his own. They've almost fought to a stalemate. And he steps back. I'm like, here comes spinning lightsaber. She didn't take on a second saber, man. I think she was taking it easy. When Asoka, because I always love it when they do that shit in samurai movies, when they hold the blade.

Is that standoff? And the standoff, I'm like, dog, I knew he was one. I was like, yo, you're done. You're not making it out. The spinning lightsabers are becoming less and less cool because we know that they lose every time they use them. I mean, it's still, it's visually fun to watch. Sure. But it's like, all right, here comes an L.

So can I just ask this really, like, quick tactically? Why wouldn't they switch? because I was just like, Sabine is like, Yo, Osoka, don't worry, I got this.

And I was just like, do you? Like what from the last fight makes you think you have this? But she was in her mandolian era, though. And she wanted her get back. She wanted her get back, but now she has her armor.

Think about it. Another thing, just you guys, concentrate on the little things that made it good. In the fight against Shin, she is actually more equipped here because she has her armor and stuff.

Remember, we talked about this. In the first fight, too much dip on a chip, runs out there just with the lightsaber. It's not going to happen. You're over your skis there. But this time, she's got not just her lightsaber, but a whole culture that has been engineered around and developed around killing Jedi or defending yourself from a Jedi. So she's got anti- Jedi shit as part of her Mandalorian armor.

helps her. You see her blocking lightsaber strikes with her Besscar. You see her using ranged attacks, all of that. She was better equipped to fight her or at least hold her off because she still got swacked or at least hold her off because she had all of her stuff, which she didn't

have before. She got back to basics. You know what I'm saying? You feel me on that or what? No, I feel you on that because, like, not only did Sabine do way better this time. Like, her fight was actually good. I was just like, oh, you're holding your own. But my one nitpick, my one nitpick of the fight is I'm just like Sabine, you got to have the killer instinct because there's one moment

where she gets distracted. And I'm just like, cut her head off. And I'm just like, cut her head off Sabine. What are you? She just like waits. And I'm like, don't wait. Like, I'm like, am I tripping? That was the one moment where I was like Sabine.

Like you got to like. That was a blood armor for sure. Yeah, it was a little. Sabine doesn't got the killer instinct. I was like she might have that. She might have that little clutch up that you need. Yeah. What was she reacting to when?

she saw Merrick get snapped away. Like she looked like, it either looked like she felt emotion for him or she's like, what the fuck is going on, Shin, when she saw it. Yeah, I think she was like, oh, snap, like, oh, snap, we might not win this thing, you know what I'm saying? Because Mary's supposed to handle it. Mary's supposed to do his thing against Assoaker.

He just, he just lost. Uh-oh, what does that mean for me? If Osoker would have came and double-teamed Shin with Homegirl, it might not have ended up that way. Who's double teaming? Who, Joe me? Oh, my God. Jesus Christ.

Get your mind. Jesus Christ. What? What? What? No, that's not fair. That's not a good drop, Steve. That's not a good drop.

That's not a good one. You're using it frivolously, Steve. Wait, so really, before we get off this, I want to say, I'm already seeing some lightsaber discourse. I thought that the action in this episode. was phenomenal. I actually think that the lights in this

looked so much better and we're just driving the storyboard. But I've seen some people are starting to complain that the lightsaber fights in Asoka are bad. Where are we falling?

Some people just won't be happy. Well, okay, so these lightsaber fights and all the lightsaber fights here were good. And it was a very lightsaber fight heavy episode. So I thought all of them were good. I thought the use of the fight

during the Sash and Joint ambush was good. I thought the Merrick and then the shin versus Sabine lightsaber fire those were good and I thought the Baylan fight was one of the best I've seen in a while. Okay. This is what I'll say though.

Last week I was watching the prequel series he came on. It was just like randomly on TBS and I just was in a hotel room. I was just watching it. And I think those lightsaber fights, might have changed the expectation of lightsaber fights in Star Wars a little bit because they were very beautiful, incredibly daring, almost all the time that a lightsaber fight

was happening in those movies. It was incredibly high stakes. It was like General Grievous versus Obi-Wan Kenobi, huge fight. The Mustafa duel, huge fight. Duku versus Obi-Wan and Anakin, or Deku versus Jod, a huge fight. Anakin versus um uh uh excuse me uh quigon jinn and obiwan canobi versus

Darth mall huge implications like they all a lot of them they were actually the climax um of those films they were the crescendo of those movies and so they felt like super duper important in it of themselves so even the fights themselves are remembered

as being different than what they are because they were so meaningful. And, you know, on a TV show, sometimes people are just going to fight to move it to the next scene and fight to develop the characters. It's not the end-all, be-all of every single episode of television or every single show, every single lightsaber fight that you get. So I think that people are confusing the actual fight that they're getting on the screen with what they should be feeling when they see two people cross swords and have a live and really, you know, in the original trilogy, you can make the same argument that whenever those, whenever the lightsabers come out and it's time to fight,

this is the biggest part of the fucking fucking movie or a huge part of the movie, like lore-making stuff. And in these TV shows, it's not necessarily like that. And in the animated stuff, it certainly wasn't like that, but at the same time, the switch between animated and live action

makes people look at it a little bit differently, I think. So when people are looking at the fights, I don't know if sometimes they're judging them on what's happening themselves, they're judging them on what they should be feeling when they're watching two people do with a lightsaber because to me these were great. A lot of

fun fights. I thought the fight between Shin and Sabine was amazing and it had some things that I didn't expect. When Sabine and this episode also baited you by saying they're not going to do

what I think they're going to do. And then they didn't do it. When she goes and it looks like she's about to force push her, I'm like please don't fuck this up, man. I got a 3-1 lead. If she If she force pushes her back into the forest, I'm about to be annoyed. But no, she did some Mandalorian shit and it was fucking great. I'm like, woo.

I'm into it. But Steve, like, you don't, did you, do you have that same, like, to Charles's question, do you have that same criticism where, like, are you over the moon about the action scenes and particularly the lightsaber scenes in the show? Yes. I think when we see, it's always interesting because you mentioned the prequel trilogy and those were like very like, it was almost like ballet. There was like beauty and how they were just like flipping and spinning and all of these things. And like I was very operatic.

But this is like a different flavor, almost kind of akin to what we might have seen a bit in the sequel trilogy where like the fight is kind of illustrative of what a character has going on at the time. where like the weight of their saber or like the way that they stand or the way that they move across is like something having to do with what they're going through or illustrates how they as a character

carry themselves. When we see Asoka fighting, she's light. She only elects to use one lightsaber by the way for this final fight because she kind of knows how he fights against her. She can anticipate that.

It's a notable thing. It's small, but, like, you understand you're like, oh, she's just using one. The way that he carries himself is, like, heavier and weightier, and she tries to be more nimble and, like, out-maneuver him. All of those things are indicative of how both of those characters kind of see the world. She tries to out-maneuver and anticipate and out-think. he's a bit more, when it comes to strength, utilizes it, but then when he turns to Cisabine,

he knows that he doesn't need strength. He doesn't need those things. All of those things illustrated in a fight are very subtle and nuanced, and the skill that it takes to illustrate those things are incredible in this episode. So I have no notes for the fights. They're fantastic.

And I also just will say, do you think that this is just like a certain generation of like, kind of trying to divert away from the prequel type. Because, like, we have never seen the prequel style fights again. Like, from the sequel trilogy into these new TV shows, we have gone back to a more back to the basics, slow and brutal type of fighting style that you almost saw,

especially in, like, Empire Strikes Back and Return, whereas it's essentially, like, fucking, they're whacking you with a laser sword. It's not the big, martial arts, like, super fast. And I'm like, I just think it's a stylistic choice at this point. Sure, but I don't think that that, honestly, I don't really hate either. I think it's more.

I don't hate either either. I think it's a stylistic choice. And if done well, can convey both of those emotions well, but just to different degrees. I think that it's worked brilliantly in this. And for what the prequel trilogy does with that style, it works brilliantly. Like that Mustafa fight, like the Musafar fight doesn't work when a lightsaber fight looks like this

in Asoka. It has to kind of be like all over the place and operatic and all of those things. I think that works. I think in terms of lightsaber fights, I think it makes sense that they're different from the prequels. But like, I mean, just timeline wise, the Jedi were

you know, thousands and they were all doing their thing. It was a great time for the Jedi. Then all of them died. And now nobody knows how to flip each up anymore. you know, I think that kind of makes sense. In terms of the lost art of backflips are really... Technically, Assoca should still know how to do it.

Well, she did. Well, she did do it. No, I think people want, like, the animated prequel flip. And I'm just like, we're not good. It's not that type of show. Like, if we're just being, like, real about this, what they're trying to make, we're not going to get a bunch of, like, force flipping,

like they were doing in the prequels. and all this ballet style shit. And if I'm gonna be honest, this is like, she has a bunch of tails on her head, guys. Like, there is a level of, like, they still need to make her movement seem real. So I liked it.

I think people are being very nitpicky on this episode. That just... Yeah, the last thing I'll say about the action is, we talked about, like, a couple weeks ago, or maybe last week, about, like, about... my brain. just right.

What's her name? Not, fuck. No. Nope. Sabine and how like, she's supposed to be like this mandolian warrior.

You know, we're seeing her, you know, struggle with the Jedi thing. Like we know what kind of worries she is. What's going on? What's the problem?

And I think, and we might have talked about it, but I think what this episode really did well was remind us like, yeah, no, Sabine is a Mandalorian badass. Like, she can do the whole thing,

man. And it was incredible that fight. And it just showed us, like, being trying to train to be a Jedi is a whole, it's a whole separate thing. Right? It's a whole separate thing. Herself, he's like, come on. Lightworth.

This thing is easy. But when it comes to trying to, like, learn the force and use a saber, that's a whole different thing. And I really like that part of this episode. So we're going to ease into Baylon now by, like, talking about another thing that had to do with the lightsaber action in this. This episode, through the action to me, was able to establish Asoka as a master. Because there is a distinction in this episode to me between how apprentices fight and how masters fight.

So you saw Sabine and Shin fight and it was very emotional, very desperate. Like Sabine is pulling out every trick in the book to keep up with her. Shen is getting distracted by things. She's getting surprised by things. Shin is powerful in the force. She can use the force, but she's not quite there yet. She's still learning. And you could tell in the fight, like they're going back and forth.

It's very, okay? Look at how the fight goes when it's Asoka and Baylon. First of all, before they really even get into the fight, they go through two or three forms. And I'm not going to get all into the, like, lightsaber forms. They're, like, looking at each other and measuring each other up. And they're changing the defense.

They're changing the position of the lightsaber. They're figuring each other out. They're matching wits in the force, but in combat experience as well. Not just force power. Because remember, there's a part of this that is, like, what you can do in the force, how talented you are, how much you've studied. But then there's an experience part of this too.

Kenobi beat Skywalker, not off power, but because he was more experienced than him. Rest and peace to dad, that was one of dad's favorite moments. I've talked about that before. Dad goes, that man was experienced. A little young whippa snapper talking shit and get your legs cut off. You know what I'm saying? So that was the whole thing. So when you watch them go between what they were going,

go through what they were going through, there was purpose to the fight itself. Osockel wasn't trying to kill Baylon. She wasn't trying to settle the score as much as she was trying to actually get to the map. And the first time she has the opportunity to get to the map, she tries it. Whether or not she's cut this guy's arm off

or cut his head off or stab them or not. She's trying to get to the map. The fight has a purpose. And they're trying to figure out how to be effective against one another. And when I saw the difference in the choreography, the difference in the emotional weight of it, I mean, don't get me wrong,

it was incredibly high-level stuff. It was a high leverage fight. They were digging deep, but there was a control to it and like a purpose to it that that's the way masters fight, people who have been through so many fights against really formidable enemies, that's the way they fight.

And it did a lot for Baylon's character as well. Baylon is doing what he's doing almost begrudgingly. He doesn't hate the Jedi, which so many people that leave the order seem to have this disdain for the Jedi order, right? Like they seem to look at everything about it as being wrong. like Osoka was wronged by the Jedi, right? I'm not sure why Baylon left at this point or what happened with that, but he seems to still appreciate her for what she means in the galaxy,

but he begrudgingly has to go past her or push past or do things that cross purposes to her to get what it is that he wants. I'll say this, Charles, I'm still not quite sure what he wants. Am I missing something here? I watched it back a couple of times. Oh, I can't rewinding the scene because I was like, he keeps talking about this greater good, but he's not being very specific about what does finding Thron do for him? Because he says that he's like, you know, to create, you need to destroy. And I'm like, what is he trying to destroy?

But kind of going back to what you were saying about what this reveals about character, I did find it interesting that Baylon. what he was essentially like, we all knew about Anakin, and, like, Asoka's just like, Anakin never brought you up. It was such an interesting way of, like, Asoka, even the way that the galaxy probably thinks about,

or at least the Jedi thought about her, is directly influenced by the fact that, like, she's standing next to, like, the Steph Curry of the Jedi. Like, she is under this umbrella and these other no-name Jedi are just, like, fuck you. Like, it's just,

There was this level of kind of, we respected Anakin for being this generational talent, but also he represented something that I think they might have been a little bit, like, who is this God, this space Jesus essentially? And why are we putting so. No, they were definitely like that. Like, when Anakin was in, aniken was like part of what happened to him and how he was. corrupted is when he was essentially in Jedi school, which is what I really wish that they would do a show on.

When Anakin was at the Jedi Temple with everyone else, they used to pick on him. They did. They used to pick on him because he was the so-called chosen one. They used to pick on him. And he also, he was an arrogant little fuck. And they used to pick on him. They used to pick at him when he was there with everyone else because he was the so-called chosen one. and because he was always trying to prove

that he was so much more powerful and deserved to be there. It was definitely hard for him when he was doing that. But what's interesting is that like, Balin almost, when he's essentially like, yo, Asoka, this is your legacy too. Like, it is so funny that she is just automatically grouped into all of the fucked up shit

now that Anakin is doing is Vader because I was just like, oh, no, that is how some former Jedi would think of her. Like, you're part of the problem. You were a part of this, what, Hwang said for you, like, what, last episode? Or an episode before that,

he's just like, yeah, you're a line of Jedi. Some problem, children. I just thought that keep following how that and then ending with Anakin and the Vader breathing, I was just like, this is a perfect loop thematically in this episode. This episode is brought to you by Prime.

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Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. Okay, so let's continue the boat going. Let's talk about the big moment here if we're talking about bailing, because bailin's great. Let's get to the point that Sabine sells out of Soka to save Ezra. Star Lord of Star Lord of Star Wars. Star Lord of Star Wars. There's another scene here that reminded me of. Okay, so look, check this out.

Soca's on the edge, right? First of all, this lightsaber fight has been great. The lightsaber fight has highlighted each character's attributes. you have Asoka being nimble, jumping around. You have her using her surroundings like she was taught to. You have her using her force powers, her perception, all of that. You have Baylon using his force powers, using his strength of will, his physical strength. And her having to overcome that, it was a great clash of styles.

And the fact that her mission is to get the map, his mission is to stop her. It's a great, great lightsaber fight. One of the best I've seen. Osoka is on the edge. She's about to be pushed over. She's about to fall down. Okay. All right.

And Sabine gets there. This is a remix scene. We've seen this before. This is Palpatine. Mace Windu and Anakin Skywalker. With a couple of tweaks. Right? In that situation, all Sabine had to do was shoot Baylon.

That's all she has to do. When she runs up on him and she's there, all she had to do was shoot Baylon. Just shoot him. She could have shot him, and he didn't never seen it coming. Okay? She hesitates. Why? Why did Sabine hesitate? Just kill Baylon. He's about to kill your friend, kill your master. Just shoot him. Just shoot him. Even if he turns around and blocks it with his saber, a so-called kill him. If he is like, let her go, whatever. No, she wants the map.

She wants the map. She wants Ezra. In that scene with with with Windu and Palpatine and Skywalker fucking

Walker wants Palpatine alive so that he can save Padme. He doesn't care about the greater good of the galaxy. He doesn't care about how dangerous Palpatine is.

He's like, Mays, Maze Windu says it, he's too dangerous to be left alive. We got to kill him. If we kill him right now, the whole thing is over. He's too dangerous to be left alive. We got to get out of here with this. No, I need them. Like, I need them. It's putting the personal what's going on with you

ahead of the greater good of the galaxy, which is against what a Jedi is supposed to do. It's at cross purposes where the Jedi is supposed to do. Sabine gets there. She sees what's going on. It's like, yo, stop you know like whatever you know what i mean she needs him like she she she she's she's got the she's got the map already but for some reason she still hesitates right there in killing him or not

she she doesn't hesitate in killing him she hesitates in shooting the map she hesitates in shooting the map she needs the map she wants to find ezra she doesn't execute the map like she should. She could kill him, kill the map. We're done. We're over. Show's over. But she has her own journey. And she chooses self in that above her master, the same way Skywalker chooses self above his master, the exact same way. I looked at that scene I'm like, it's the same scene with a couple of things tweaked. Charles, am I tripping? I don't think you're tripping, but you're not doing a good job of making me think that Sabine's a non-an idiot. Because I just was, the whole time I was watching, I was just like, I, like, emotionally, I didn't see it coming and I loved it.

Like, I love the turn. I love the fact that, like, Baylon, yeah, can turn her in a way in terms of just like, hey, follow me. You'll get what you want. But I was thinking the whole time, I'm like, shoot him. Like, what is? this is the second time in this episode where Sabine had a clear shot at both of the villains

and did nothing with it and it was also I know they didn't want me to think about this but I was just like are her and Assoca as close as I think they is because she wasn't out there Obviously not Obviously not

Because Assoca literally could be dead And at no point with Sabine like Wait fuck I need to save her Before I can think of Ezra we don't even know if Ezra's alive. I don't know, you know what I'm saying? I've been known Ezra. Minosaka, ah, that's kind of, you feel me.

I got to know where I'm at. You know, I think to Vance point, though, you know, it's what George Lucas say. It's like poetry. It rhymes, you know? Like, these are the things that Star Wars is built on or these things that, like, mirror each other in a way. And so, like, the way that you saw that is pretty smart.

I will agree with Charles, though. that was a terrible sell job. That was like Dillon Brooks level. He with us type stuff from Sabine. Like that you can't do that. You can't do that. You know what I'm saying? You can't let the bad guys get the map.

Like, I'm sorry. It's just so bad. That guy's got to you though. That's he played the right move. So bad. So here's the thing, bro. The thing about it is, it's like I was expecting him to come over there and just talk her down.

When he turned his lightsaber off, I was like she's cooked. Yeah. Yeah. When he cut his lightsaber off, I was like, oh, she doesn't, she doesn't have it. Yeah, no way. She doesn't have it. And he knows.

He knows. He knows. He knows. He doesn't have it. He's like, he felt that. He's so strong in the force. He's like, no, I got this one. He just read her.

He's like, you're worried about Ezra right now. You're worried about Ezra. Like, I can feel you're, like, we've seen it before. Your feelings betray you, young Skywalker. Like, I can't. Like, he's like, I got her. Turned the lightsaber off, working towards, she got a gun. You don't even care.

You know what I mean? walks up to her and it wasn't even the fact that it's like something so subtle so subtle that I noticed it wasn't that he got the map from her is that she gave it to him yes yeah he let her he had his hand out

he said he put his hand out he made her he put his hand out like give me the map because he could have walked it's a completely different scene if he walks over to her and she's got it and he takes it out of her hand she's still hesitant At first, I thought he was going to force, like, take it. And when he didn't, I was just, like, to your point,

when he just didn't use the force, I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. Not only does he know that he has the map, this illustrates who he is as a character. He is a character where he's like, it means more if you give it to me. He's like, he does, he wants to stamp out any type of like, she's going to try to fight me. She's going to do these. He's like, no. Like, it is easier if you just come over to my side. I thought that that was brilliant.

but Sabine, I don't know what Falone, like, what did Sabine do to Faloni? Because this is a, this is a character assassination of the highest order. She's going out sad. She's going out super sad. Like, it's kind of like a thing to where other people that have been corrupted by the dark side,

let's just be honest, we haven't really cared that much. You know? Like, when somebody really turns to the dark side, like we never really knew them. And like, we haven't, And we cared with Skywalker, but we knew what was going to happen that he was going to come back. So it was like, ah, this is how to happen.

It's cool. Even when Ezra was getting a little bit, you know, it was just like, come on. It's just the face. Yeah, it's like he's going. He's a kid. He's adolescents. Like, in this one right here, this might have been, I mean, killing younglings is pretty high up there too. Yeah, it's pretty bad.

Really? What do you think? Yeah, killing kids. Not that great. I will know. I will say this is not on the same level, but to Vans. point, she is basically like setting up the galaxy

to be in another war by a villain who is way smarter than basically anybody was in the empire. And she is... She knows this. She's very familiar with Thrawn's game.

Like, I don't know what you're going to... I am very familiar with your game. I know what you gave. to my point I think maybe not a seduction

because I don't think she's a dark sider now but as far as a cell job this might be the single biggest cell like to Jones this might be this this is the biggest cell

that I've seen. Yeah but I like I want to give her some credit here because she was masterfully manipulated into selling like that. No because she was there.

She has a jet pack. She could have flown a fucking But it doesn't matter. She was still worried. She just thought that she just thought that Osama died. She ran up on her fucking master about to get fucking killed and she does not even shed a tear. I was like, yo, what are we doing? It's a pretty big sell.

It's a pretty big cell. Come on. But I'll be honest, it is not great for Zabin's character, but it makes her more interesting. It makes her so much more interesting. I love it. It makes her. certain more it's just I'm like no what? Like this is

this is this is the equivalent of putting on a stormtroopers unit like it's like you know I don't I disagree I think that this is like I don't I don't I just think no I understand the gravity of this mistake I'm I'm agreeing with you that this is like one of the biggest

mistakes to be made but like it's the fact that like you're acting like she might have done this on purpose but she didn't like are you wait what are you talking about Seriously, I want to, she had it in the order. What are you talking about? Before I just completely lose my shit.

Like, what do you mean? I feel like there's a disconnect where I'm like, am I not hearing that she was also wildly manipulated? And this is like a perfect setup for her. Okay. She was not manipulated the whole time. Okay, okay. Okay, okay.

So here's a deal. So here's a deal. Here's a thing. Here's a thing. This is cultural. And let me tell you why. Okay. You know, let me tell you.

I want to understand. I want to understand. Because this is like a Patty Hurst, Justin Bieber situation. I'll tell you, Patty Hurst, I'm not sure if you guys know your history, but I mean, Patty Hurst was the son of William Randolph Hurst. She gets kidnapped or she goes with this place called the Sibianese Liberation Front or something like that as a group of black radicals. And she's gone.

They're like, oh, my God, where's Patty Hurst? she got kidnapped, right? Then there's a video that pops up of Patty Hurst holding basically like an AK-47 in the bank robbery. She changed her name. She's got a fucking beret on. She's having sex with these guys.

This whole thing. And it's like, she's basically a criminal, right? And then after this, people go... This is the craziest? After this, people go, she was brainwashed. And you know what people go? Hey, Patty Hurst, come right back. You're good.

Justin Bieber, right, is a regular little star on YouTube, right? Miley Cyrus, regular little star. All of a sudden, they start drinking activists, hanging around with rappers, twerking, asses out, little twists, all of this stuff like this. And then it's like, okay, they go bad, they had a bad moment, they come back, right? So there's this thing to where, I mean, cultural appropriation versus, like, if I'm going to be real, just let me, let me, no, Justin Bieber was endangering people like, like, like, like, you know, for sure. Yeah, yeah, he did that. You know white people what they do?

when they want to apologize for letting the Negroes infect them with their with the witchcraft, they literally go to the Ellen couch. Like that was like when you get booked on Ellen. Like Baylon, Baylon, he's Ellen.

When he put away the lightsaber, he's just like, come to the couch. We're going to talk this through. And then all the white moms like see it. It's straight. And it's like after they do all of this shit, meanwhile, niggas I know

they had some weed. They in jail. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, they in jail. And sometimes when I'm looking at this stuff, like, I'm going to be real with you, bro. I don't think that Vader qualifies for redemption. I think this nigga did too much, bro.

I'm sorry. Right. No, right. That's fine. I think this nigga did too much. I've talked about this before. That's amazing, Darth Vader sitting on the Ellen couch. I've talked about this before with Buck.

I think Buck, I think it's a bridge too far. I think it's cool. You could stay. I think you did too much. I think you did too much, bro. I think a lot of stuff you killed this man's fucking parents. Like, you did, like, I think you did too much, bro. You did too much.

Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, has Luke done too much? A little, kind of, not quite. No, with the nephew thing. No, no. He hesitated, though. I don't know, he hesitated. He hesitated, though. If I walk in on, like, let's say, like, my, my bro is, like, watching, like, my kid,

and he, like, just walks in with, like, a gun, and all he's just, I hesitated, though. I'm never looking at him the same. It's tough. It's tough. You know? But so when I look at the Sabine thing, I'm like, yeah, she was manipulated. It was one conversation. Yeah, it gets like a Jedi master.

It was one conversation. And by the way, and even with Skywalker, you know, Papalteen did his Googles, bro. It was a bad. Papalteen did it for years and years and years. Not from a Jedi. You know what I mean? I had to kill my master. Like, Palpatine worked on him for a long.

Sabine, like, that was some Andrew Tate shit. Like, one conversation. And like, what? One conversation. Now I got to put it. What? What? What?

What? What conversation? Is she going with the top G? Like, it's like, it's, I get it. I loved it. But I'm saying it did. I liked it. And I understand emotionally how seeing Ezra

is a thing for her. I really do understand that. I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying, I am so interested to see what they do with Sabine's character because how she comes back

from this is fantastic. It's going to have to be fantastic, man. Two things, though, she did not even look over the edge to make sure like Assoca was alive.

Oh, we passed that point. We passed that point. You know what I'm like, that's one. Like, I would have to get my get back if I'm Assoca. I'm like, bitch, you didn't even look for me?

Like, like, you know what I'm saying? The second thing, too. She got these motherfuckers killed. Like, Hara comes to save her ass and she got Hara's like fucking New Republic. Like, Hara can't go back now. Like,

her whole career's done. They're all careers done. They're morons. They're stupid. Like, they're idiots, bro. Like, shout out to them. Shout out to Hara bringing her son on that mission.

I, nobody's I don't know if I'm not. I'm not about that. You know what I'm saying? Shout out to Hara. He's forced to. now, so. Yeah, he's the force of you. Listen,

the child of work day is fine. I, I, I, I get that. They don't have a bounce house back at the fucking team. There's not, there's no, bro, like, there's no babysitters in space, apparently. There's no daycare center. She should have dropped them off with Zeb. She should have called up Zeb.

Also, that poor guy being like, you'll think of something to say. Like, that's not my job. It's a, it's a, it's a hyperspace ring. And I don't want to sound like, it's a hyperspace ring. And they're about to jump in a high system and nobody, all right,

let's pull up and get out of the way. I did like the fact that they were in the middle of the ring And like they didn't like nobody actually got like hurt by the get going like hold old maneuvered through They just like got sucked in through like the wit like the wind tunnel of the ring which was fucking sick that was great yeah can I ask a I have to ask a really important question like is this a safe space But I'm being said is this a safe space? Nope probably not okay this might have to be like deep shadow protocol But I have to speak my truth. I've been quite for three episodes. I've been three.

I have to ask you. You can't do a preemptive deep shadow protocol. You have to get your shit off. Yeah. All right. So, conodic, I'm not making this up.

In the cartoon, Hera has a fad ass. That is just what it is. That's how they designed her. I did not know. Like, I was just like, I'm not even going to be missed.

Land this plane. Go for it. Go for it. Go for it. I'm not. I'm hard. This is only going to be, I mean, we're not beating the allegations because of this. So just, so go for it.

No, by the way, by the way, by the way, by the way, finish this. Finish this. And this is staying in the podcast. No, it's not. Yes, it is. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Finish this. And this is staying in the podcast.

And let me tell you why. Because I'm the person that gets looked at with all of this stuff. Me and Mallory have to eat all of the pervert. kibble. We have to eat all of the over-sex kibble. Y'all give it all, when everybody's like this, Joe is going crazy over Timothy Oliphant. Joe was sending me

weird Timothy Oliphant pictures randomly one time we were having a conversation. Everybody feels it. But me and Mal are the ones that have to shoulder the brunt of it. Charles, land a plane. I want to see it. You're not the only one that's thinking it, so just go for it. Say it. I just, I personally didn't know

Mary Elizabeth Winstead was like working with it like that. I didn't. I There was a couple times where I was looking at here. I was just like, okay, I did not know if, like, there was just like, hey, we need to make sure that, like. I was all familiar with your game. I was all. Guys, don't tell me, stop.

Don't tell me you guys didn't notice. Obviously, everyone's noticed. Obviously, everybody's noticed. I'm glad that you noticed, though. Because I don't want to hear it anymore. I'm glad that you noticed. Okay. Obviously, everybody's noticed.

She looks great. She does. like Hera is she's bringing it. You guys know how I feel. This is going to deep shadow protocol. It's not. They're going to kill me. The podcast.

Okay. No, this is in the podcast, without a doubt. Oh, my God. We didn't get that much of Morgan Ellsbeth. We got to move on. We didn't get that much of Morgan Ellsbeth, but she was still key in trying to get the hyperspace ring. She's got the map.

We're going to, she's going to throne. We're not. sure of a couple of things. Number one, we're not sure leaving this, and that's another thing great about the episode, at least with intrigue. We're not sure about how Sabine is going to redeem herself.

We know that she is now under Baylon's protection, which is an interesting thread because he wouldn't let she and harm her. He promised her that no harm will come to her. So Baylon will be protecting Sabine, which is interesting in and of itself, because it almost takes

a new master apprentice type of role. Not really, but you could look at it. It depends on what happens. We don't know where they're going. I expect we don't know exactly where they're going. I expect we see Thron next episode, which we said five for Thrawn, and it kind of doesn't matter now

because they were able to do whatever they... Baylon has stepped up in such a way that I'm really more interested to see where his character is going to go then maybe what Thron has to do with anything. So there's just so many questions coming out of this episode. But one big question for a lot of people who didn't watch Clone Wars, or, excuse me, or rebels, rebels specifically, is the world between worlds.

A lot of people were unclear about what the world between worlds is. They did not realize that Soka was going to wake up in the world between worlds. and they are now wondering what the fuck that is. So for everyone who doesn't know, Jomey the Explaner, give people a little primer on what the world between worlds is. The world between worlds, also known as the Virgin Scatter,

is a mystical plane within the force that serves as a collection of doors and pathways existing between time and space, linking all the moments and times together. Dark Sidious, you know, our guy, got a quote, and it says, This mystical realm connects all of space and time, creating a conduit between the living and the dead. Those who control this space possess a mastery of all existence, but gaining access has proved an unexpected challenge.

Now, if you're a Rebels fan, you know that our boy, Ezra Bridger, found his way into the world between worlds and rescued Asoka from her death with Darth Vader in the season two finale of Rebels. and so this is twice now that Assook has been saved from certain death because of the war between worlds. So shout out to whoever's looking out for her because she should have been gone twice, but the world between worlds has been clutched for her. Who saved her? That is my question, and that's supposed it had to be anikin, right? But I think that's my one. It had to be?

Well, she's the only person in there, right? you have to be able to reach out and grab. Yeah, but you hear the Vader. You hear the Vader theme. So I was just like, is this Anakin or is this potentially a dark side? And this is my note for the episode. This is the one thing. They have to nail how Anakin got into the world.

Whoever got to the war between worlds as Anakin and saved her. Because I, you know, we've all watched Clare Wars, who all watch rebels. I don't remember a time where Anakin was like, hey, man, I'm going to go into this little space. I'll be back. I'll see y'all come back, talk. Like, you know what I mean? Like, this is very new for all of us. So them explaining how he got there and how he was like,

oh, snap, let's talk, what's crack? I'm going to just pull you out. You know, I would love to see how they explain that, but it was still cool seeing them. It was awesome. Can I also remember that the world between worlds exists throughout time. Yeah. So there's a possible,

it's a possibility that Anakin Skywalker from Clone War era pulled Asoka out of wherever she's at, which would be weird because does he know now that he's Vader or, you know, like he, do you want to get on that? But so who knows? But I'm interested to see where it goes. So much intrigue, there's so much meat on the bone. I've always wondered this.

Is this time traveler or is it not? Kind of. It's space travel. I'll tell you that. No, because in the Rebels finale, when Ezra opens the door, this was always what pissed me off about the finale. He saves Asoka before he really knows what he's doing from basically getting killed by Vader.

But he can't do the same thing with Canaan. So I'm like, who gets to decide who is saved and plucked out of time and it being all right? Well, he can save Asoka because it's just Asoka. If he saves Osoka, it doesn't affect him in any way, shape, or form. If he saves Canaan, that means, everybody's.

Everybody. He dies. Yeah. He dies. No, no, no. I get that. But like, I,

like, if he saves Assoca, it does affect things, though. It does change the time. What? She doesn't die. He puts her in another spot.

So, Charles, she's all right. Charles, you have an opportunity to do something here. That's really special. What? Just admit that you hadn't thought of that

and just move on with the conversation. No, no, really what I'm asking is if Osoka, if he saves Asoka, from that past, timeline, she is affecting stuff like she meets the mando. She meets Grogu.

Like, now she's there to fight throng. Like, he is, but is it because it's like a positive change? Right? I think what Jomi was saying was the immediate consequences of saving a sovarez. That is true. Yeah, the immediate consequences. Look at that look on your face. You don't like that. You don't like

you don't like Jome got you, huh? I'm fucking with you. I'm fucking with you. No, the immediate but no, but I think the the question that you're asking is true. Is it time travel? I mean, it exists out of time. We don't do well with time travel here on the midnight

boys, just let you know. It exists out of time, but it is time travel, right? I mean, Charles, are you essentially saying that that? I was always confused. It's Skywalker from the past, basically. I don't, I just don't know. And I guess that they will describe that. But when I watched rebels for the first time,

I was just like, are they saying, that technically Asoka never died in that fight with Vader? Or was she destined to die? And then by Ezra going to the World Between Worlds, he basically averted that. I know one thing. I know that the World Between Worlds confused the fuck out of a lot of people on Twitter. And now we'll see.

They think she's in Star Wars heaven. I mean, Anna can be in there is the first. Yeah, that's the first sign that's probably not there. It would be wild if she was in heaven and all the yumbling were around here. Y'all sold. You guys are forgetting. You guys are you guys. We're trying to the Jedi.

Anakin definitely did the thing. Yeah, he was trying to the Jedi. He came back as a force ghost. He did the good old. He renounced his sins. He did the good old deathbed just in case. Are we out of here? JC.

Like deathbed just in case. And he's, he's done. So I'm telling him, I'll say it again. I don't think it's right. like if I was Luke I'd have put him in jail for his last hours I'd be like I love you dad but I gotta take you to them

I gotta make the the ghost right I gotta set an example right so I know that you can't breathe or whatever but let me get these cuffs on you because you gotta pay bro you gotta pay dog don't you gotta pay like bro you you have to pay

think about Obi-WR it's a lot think about just walking through a village and just snapping people's necks. You got to pay, bro. Like, you never paid. It just cut. Come to that end of Return of the Jedi. I love you, Dad.

And then just like every single person he's killed. Bruss, exactly. A whole mashup. I just slapped the cuffs on him real quick. This nigga coming to parties after he did. Everybody hanging out. The Force Ghost is there. He like, hanged like he never did anything.

I mean, it's wild that. Patty Hurst. Not only. Not Osiris, bro. Leah, Leah's not even thinking like, my dad is, he's one killed everybody that I, like, knew and loved. And she's just like, yeah, he's at the party. Cool. Fuck it.

Who cares? It's a little rough. Those force ghosts have got a lot to talk about. Yeah. He's like, he's sitting around there with Yoda and, and Canobey. Just like, you know, and here's what pisses me are to. He fucking killed Obi-one, sort of. He's like, nobody going to bring it up.

Nobody's going to bring it. I just want to know what happened when you killed. This is. Little Billy England from Zirang Five. He was good with that. That was my little nigger. We would eat cookies together. I would come in there and then you, you killed him.

Like, Anacan, what should we do? I got to tell you what you should do. You should die, a little nigga. I'm not going to. Wait, do you think the little younglings are for, they're not forced ghosts. They're not struggling up for the floor. No.

No, they never fucking got a chance. They get a pass. They get a pass. You make, see what you're doing right now. This is a pro-vader agenda. I want to do a whole midnight court on this. Vader should never have been routine. Like you do it.

It's a pro-vader agenda, what you're doing? Those little kids had tortured lives. Think about the life. 90 consecutive life sentences. Think about the life of a kid, of a youngling that got killed by Vader. They got to experience nothing awesome. They were taken away from their families to be Jedi. At the point that the Jedi take you away from your family,

if you don't become a Jedi, it's a dub. It's a total dub. Because think, you're away from your family. You don't get to have great types of fun. Got called through a cave, grab a crystal, all kinds of crazy shit. It's not that what a child would be into. And then, before you can even go off and save the galaxy or be a Jedi explorer and go handle animals throughout the goddamn galaxy and all of that great stuff,

somebody kills you. Dog, imagine you were watching Anakin tape as a kid going like, yo, this Jedi, man, I want to be like him. You go to the school. Man, you ready, like, bro. I'm here with my, my idol. Then I can't wait. You got Aniston's jersey hanging up in your room.

He showed with a same. You're like, hey, what's so, homie? What we're trying to get into? Slangang! Cucs. It's like those. It's like Joe Kim Noah. Like all of that time that Joe Kim Noah was looking up to Kevin Garnet.

And then he finally gets to me, Kevin Garnett. Fuck you, nigga. All right. So can I ask, is it a transatlantic slave point that they didn't invite Mace to the final party? Because, like, Mace would have ruined the vibe. He would have been like, yo, what the fuck is this motherfucker doing? No, I can tell you why Mace isn't there.

Mace is not fucking with Anakin. We don't get over stuff like that in the community. It's like, bro. It's like, it's like, it's like, they come like literally. Mace is like, I'm not going to that shit. Bro, the phone call was from, the phone call was from Kanobe.

Knobe called Mace. It's like, look, bro. I don't know if you heard, but Skywalker became one with the force man. And Quigon, Quigon was just wondering, I know what happened. Who's going to be there? Happened to me. Happened to me.

Like, that's what Mendoo said. Mendoo was like, okay, we're having a force party. Who are all going to be there? That's what he said. Yeah. He's like, exactly. Steve. He was like, who are going to be there?

And he was like, okay, so it's me, it's Yoda. Quigon might show up later. But I got to let you know, Skywalkers become old with the force. He RZP.D.S. He said he's going to come. He said he's coming. We're all going to be there. The Ewalk's going to be there.

Leia going to be there. It's like there's a bunch of people going to be there. And Mace Wind do is like, nigger, no. He was like, I'm not hanging out with him. Like, cut my arm off and got me electrocuted. I died three times. First of all, I got my arm cut off. I got electrocuted.

And I fell. And I fell. I'm not hanging out with him. We don't do that. We're not coming to them four sparties. I'm not hanging out with him. I'm not being on the same team. But here's the thing.

I judge Yoda, Obi-Wan, and them differently because I'm like, y'all just let Anakin in like no problems. No problem. There was no conversation. You know who else was like that now that I think about it? Falcon. Falcon was like, all right, so we, you just, it's just your nigger now? Think about it.

Damn. Think about it. That is true. Falcon was like, a falcon was like, so we all just cool now? Like, I've seen what this guy can do.

I've seen him kill. You know what I mean? I've seen what this guy could do. This is your guy? Falcon never, it took years and years and years and years. Falcon was like, okay,

telling you. Wait, do you think Falcon was scared of Cap? Like he didn't, like he was just like, he knew, like that is what makes me, it's hard for me to take,

you know, Falcon Cap seriously because I'm like, you didn't really stand up to Steve like that. you were, you know, you were afraid of the white man, which I don't really like. Like, you should have told him, like, this is fucked up, bro. Well, he, you know, Steve is, you know, he is pretty fast. You know what I mean?

It's like Steve Rogers. But like, at the same time, thinking what Falcon got for this, Nick are trying to bang his sister, bro. All of that. And he still was the same buck. I'm against, I want to do this. I'll do this against Mallory. I challenge Mallory to a midnight court.

I'm anti-redemption for Vader. anti. He was irredeemable to me. He did too much. I agree. I agree. Okay. Charles got some great questions in here.

The de-aging situation. We have to talk about it. How did you guys enjoy the de-aging? I don't see the point. I don't see the point. Why could they just... Hey, Christensen, good-looking guy, relatively young-looking anyway.

Like, what's the point? I don't know, fellas. I don't know. The thing... So I don't see the problem. The problem. I think it looks all right. If it's only like, you know, a couple seconds, you know, we'll see.

I think we'll have more to say next week. But the thing is you don't want a situation where, you know, he looks 45, you know, and you're like, so when in the timeline does this take place? You know, and he looks old as hell. You know what I mean? You're saying this is like he's a burned victim. Well, I mean, technically he is a burned victim. Jesus Christ. My God.

Here's the thing, Steve. You know, white people age a little differently than black folk. You feel me? Wow. Boy. Like, it's just, it's just what it is. Wow. It's just what it is.

Jomey. Let's be honest. Joe me. Joe. Steve. With Sam Jackson, when Sam Jackson do it. Hold on for a second.

I almost never do this. Steve, you got to fight back. You can't. You have a fool because that's not. The way I fight back is me being 33 right now. looking like this. He looks good. There you go.

Talk your shit, Steve. Damn, Steve. Talk your shit, Steve. Steve had that ready in the clip. Can't do, can't do it like that. Can't be around here saying people age like, no. Can't, you know, you can't do that. These are humans, Joe, me.

These are human beings. These are humans. That was mean. Like, you know, people get at me, but like, bro, Hayden looks fine. He looks fine. He looks fine. I'm just saying. They could have put him in the makeup chair for a couple of hours,

And it would have been... And we saw this... We wouldn't have cared. We saw the Obi-Wan Cadoby, like, you know, it's a little... Like, you look a little older than, but, like, it was... You know what I mean? Like... He was what I got to do.

So, look, my only thing is if... I don't think it was actually... I wonder if it was actually hating Christensen because I would think that if he was young enough looking to play a Padawan in Obi-Wan Canobeeby, then he would be young enough looking to play a full-grown Anakin Skywalker from McClellan era. Yeah, that's the thing. I was like, the de aging and Obi-Wan, I was like, this this dude does look 45 and he's

supposed to be 18, but we're okay with it because he's here. Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan is a geriatric by New Hope. So we know in the galaxy far, far away, humans age differently. We could have explained it differently. Like, we could have didn't look good because here's the thing.

Emotionally, it worked. Like I was like, fucking Anakin, I was just like, this is dope as hell. But there was a little bit of me being like, You're like, I think Faloni is really in love with this de-aging technology and I'm like, well, we're telling, we're telling

Star Wars is in love with. No, it's, again, it's, we saw this as they're going to use the technology, like, use it. Yeah, yeah. Like, they're going to use the Reese feature for James Earl Jones. They're going to, like, turn the clock back on Mark Hamill and all that stuff. But if we're, if we're talking about

specific time periods and we want some of these characters to show up, then you got a de-age them. I think more, importantly is it worked emotionally. I give de-aging, like a, when I look at it, I know somebody is de-aged. I let my brain do a little math to where I'm like, okay, so we know that that's like, whatever. So I wasn't tripping on the de-age.

I knew that people would, but I wasn't tripping on it. I wasn't tripping either. Yeah. Here's the thing. People are going, OD in it. And like, here, I don't like the de-aging thing either, but, like I said, seeing Asoka with her master together again. Whether he is real, whether this is some malevolent force, whatever, it just worked.

Like, it worked thematically. It worked in terms of the narrative. I was fucking excited. The one thing that I am just, like, so worried about is the world between worlds is one of the Star Wars concepts that you cannot spend that much time on in my thing. Because the more time is- Can't we think about it too much. You can't think about it too much. It's like that fucking inception thing.

You know, you just have to feel it. if they use the world between worlds to start bringing back more motherfuckers or like trying to do some like weird shit that's what I'm a little like worried about am I bugging then? No no because I think there are a lot of and I mentioned Generation Tech

earlier on was one of the Star Wars channels that I really like to watch but I mean there are a lot of people out there that feel like and Ryan Airy feels like this as well shout out to Screen Crush actually it might have been Ryan and not Alan who said this that the more time we spend demystifying the force the kind of crazier things get

and the less connected we really feel to it that the force is supposed to be this kind of all knowing binding mystical force and the more we explain different aspects of it the more it starts to not connect with people as much. And the world between worlds, for some people,

this example of that, of that. I always thought it was cool. I always thought the father, the daughter and the son were cool. The brother and the sister, should I say, or whatever.

I always thought that it was cool. I thought all of that stuff was interesting. I liked the expansion of lore. But there are people who don't. And in live action, the world between worlds does feel like the afterlife.

And so for a lot of people, the distinction would have to be made. But I thought it worked. And I thought, and it was totally unexpected. When I heard his voice, I was like, oh, shit, we're in the shit now. You know what I'm saying? So, but I, what do we think happened? Like, if we're ending on a positive note, because I do think, like, I like seeing Anakin, because I was thinking is, was Asoka saved?

Or? Well, this is what I think we should happen. It should happen. I think we shouldn't write the show. no, I wasn't, I'm just trying to, I'm trying to ask of the stuff that happened because she could have been saved by someone. Like, we know that that can work. Like, Ezra, that's what he did to pluck her out.

What if Ezra saved? Ezra would be there. Maybe. Or maybe it's like, well, whoa, whoa, whoa. Ezra might still be there. We just, we know that, like, there's illusions in this place. So, like, was she saved or we don't know if a world, uh, the world between world,

can be accessed without being saved. If somebody can just go there, we don't know. What if Palpatine saved it? We don't know. That could be anybody, that could be somebody pretending to be Skywalker.

Like, we have no clue. If we're changing the timeline, it would be wild if Faloni is like, what if we just pluck Palpatine out of Rise of Skywalker? Somehow he returned. You never know. Palpatine never returned.

We always want to know that somehow. You never know what that, that wacky, crazy, Palpi is up to. Like you never know what that wacky absurd palpi's doing. I mean, right now he's blowing someone's back out so he can have children.

Is that what happened? I thought it was clones. That's how you like to think of it, huh? No, that's... Well, because Ray is Papua teen's granddaughter. Yeah, but from a clone. From a clone. Isn't it from a clone? I thought it was from clones. I thought it was granddaughters. I thought that

that Ray's father was a clone of Palpatty. Appetine meant to be his son. That's what I thought. I don't know. Okay, so who is raised dad? Nobody. Oh, is Ray's dad, is Ray's dad or whoever, the son of, the son of a clone of Palpatine?

I forgot. I used to know this. I feel like this is just giving too much validity to the Rise of Skywalker that I don't want to entertain. Who is Ray's father, Dathen? Okay. Great. Also known to the Sith Eternal as the Abomination. Let's see.

Was a human male strand cast genetically engineered by Sith cultists on the planet Exical, the Sith cult utilized the template of Darth Sidious to create cloned vessels for the preservation of his essence. The strand cast who became known as Dathan was a byproduct of the cult experiments. However, he lacked a strong connection to the force. So technically, does that mean Ray is genetically... Well, I'm saying is there was no fucking, is my thing. There was no fucking. You are right.

You're correct. So I'm sure Palpatine was getting it, but there was no fucking. I bet Palpatine was putting that word. Anyway, all right, let's go. I like Palpi. I've been getting into a lot of palpi-related stuff. I'm a big fan of Palpi. Yeah, man, I'm a big fan of Palpi.

Who is a big fan of Palpi? I've never been like, you know who I really love some Palpatine. You got to get into Palpi's backstory, baby. It's not, Palpi was evil from the start. Palpi, Plagueis, Damascus, Damascus, like, Doug,

Hugo Damascus, who Dark Plagas, like, Palpi was bad from the start. Papi didn't give a fuck. Palpi was killing people on his speeder when he was a kid, his dad was covering it up,

killed his whole family. Like, Palpy was always bad. Palpy wasn't one of these people that was like got corrupted later. Papi said, fuck it. You know, not from a Jedi.

Not from a Jedi. Bangor of an episode, that's a wrap. Follow us on socials, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikToks, Jomi, Jason,

new dad hashtag Jomby Jase's new dad wait a minute is that old one coming up on the feed this Friday button match returns with their RPG blowout with Balders game three and Starfield next week we'll be giving you a new instant reaction to Assoca a lot to build on I heard five is a crazy one by the way

don't forget to check out new house of our feed you guys might get five hours you guys might you guys might get five hours on house of R it's going to be a long one on Friday do not forget to check out the house of R feed you you might get five hours here Wherever you get your pods, deep dives, they're going super duper deep on this.

It's a great episode. I cannot wait to hear what they got to say. Our producer is Steve, the architect, Almond. Jomi Adirond is on social's hashtag Joma Soka. I love that. An additional production from Arjuna. Seen by not heard. Ram Kapal. Charles takes out.

Asoka is back, and this new episode was smooth as silk. The cartoon booties are bouncing, and white people kind of age like milk. Be-boo! I just thought, like, we keep talking about Anakin being, like, you know, being like the number one prospect of the Jedi kids. You think, like, he was, like, Wembe in that sense. Like, they're watching this tape, like, on, you know, their phone's like, yo, this kid crazy, bro.

You know what I'm saying? Like his Jedi mixtape on YouTube with Remember the Name. On the back, like to do the music. She was like the professor. You know what I'm saying? You know, y'all remember? Did you ever watch a John Walls mixtape, high school mixtape? I did.

I used to watch all of those mixtapes, bro. John Walls was good. Austin Rivers, bro. Austin Rivers was the man. Austin Rivers changed the game. John Wall, fucking deuce Bellow. Bam, out of bio, had a crazy one. Wait, so let me ask,

Who of the Jedi had the worst mixtape? Like he thought he was bawling out. Obi-Wan. What? Yeah. Too many fundamentals? Obi-Wan's mixtapes was nothing but setting screens. Obi-W.

Very simple ball, big simple big ones. Hey, fundamentals will get you the W. No, hold on. Obi-Wan is the Tim Duncan of the Jedi. This is a perfect. This is a perfect. Yeah. Perfect.

Like, you were just saying, Fan, you were just saying Greatest Jedi of all time. And Tim Duncan, and Tim Duncan is the greatest power for it ever. But he's just,

fundamentals. Like, fundamentals. Obi-Wan is, Obi-Wan, you're not going to look at a Tim Duncan mixtape or highlight tape and be like,

God damn. You know what I'm saying? You know, it's not a bad. It's, that's a compliment. He just fucking got it done. All of you,

all of your flashy motherfuckers, all of your the Amaristademeyers that went up against Tim Duncan they got fucked over I mean that's what happened and so and so the reality is Obi-Wan is the

to me he's the most accomplished greatest Jedi ever but he is the Tim Duncan of the Jedi he is nobody watching Tim Duncan tape nobody like man let's lock on this Obi-Wan tape brothers

Thank you.