The Ringer-Verse - 'Alan Wake 2' and 'Five Nights at Freddy’s' Reactions | Button Mash

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

It’s spooky season, and Ben and Jess are getting into the spirit by giving their spoiler-free reactions to the survival-horror game sequel 'Alan Wake 2' (10:21). Then, they pivot and give another spoiler-free review of one of Jess’s favorite franchises and the newest video game adaptation: 'Five Nights at Freddy’s.'(34:59) Hosts: Ben Lindbergh and Jessica Clemons Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons from The Ringer, and this is a podcast called The Rewatchables. We have been doing it, really since 2017. It started with how much we love the movie Heat. We decided to structure a whole podcast with categories, most rewatchable scene. Who on the movie, Apex Mountain, what age the best? But here's the thing. If you want the full archive, you can hear them only on Spotify for free, by the way. So make sure to follow the rewatchables on Spotify.

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room for a few too many years. This is exactly how I feel. You know, I've waited so long to get my hands on the sequel to departure. You left us on quite the cliffhanger. We've all been dying to know what it's not a lake. It's an ocean really means. You and me both. Well, our wait is over.

Your new book, initiation hits the shelves tomorrow. What? That's exactly what every reader will be asking. be asking. This book is mind bending. It's so cerebral. I mean, how would you describe it? An auto-fictional thought experiment? A horror story? A postmodern detective story? And welcome into the ringerverse, your Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. My name is Ben Lindberg, and I'm a writer. And I'm also a senior editor for The Ringer. Joining me, as always, the only for the second time ever in person is my co-host, Jack.

Jessica Clemens. Hello, IRL. Hello, TTIA. Happy to be here. Happy to talk all things Halloween. All things horny. All things scary. Yeah. It's Halloween Eve. You're a huge horror fan. We're talking about horror game and movie. You're living your best life right now. In my worst life. But I'm here, too. What's your favorite holiday?

Not this one. Christmas. Christmas. I'm a Christmas baby. Yeah, I know. I can tell. Yeah. It's my birthday, too. But you today are just fully. possessed by the dark presence. I can see it. I feel like I should shine a flashlight at you to reveal your weak point right now. Try. Try me. Try me. We are here to give you our impressions of the last big name game of an overloaded October, Alan Wake 2, and also to discuss the biggest movie in America. Sorry, Scorsese. I'm talking about five nights at Freddy's.

Yikes. But on a somewhat more solemn note, before we get to the game and the movie, we wanted to press F to pay respects to a true gamer, Matthew Perry, the former friend star who died this Saturday at 54. You probably read a ton of tributes to Perry's work in TV and movies and the way he helped others who experienced the addiction issues that he struggled with for much of his life, but we should not overlook his love of gaming. I want to play a few clips for you. First, let's play a clip from a friend's episode, the one where Joey dates Rachel, where Chandler gets so hooked on Miss Pac-Man that he messes up his hand. You are not going to believe what I did today.

Well, it clearly wasn't showering or shaving. I got good. I played this game all day, and now I rule at it. They should change the name of it to Miss Chandler. Although, I hope they don't. Wait a minute. You stayed home all day and played Miss Pac-Man while I went off to work like some kind of chump.

And I got all the top ten scores. I erased Phoebe off the board. High five. What is the matter with your hand? Well, I've been playing it for like, Eight hours. It'll loosen up. Come on, check out the scores.

So several years later, this happens to Perry in real life. So in April 2009, he's making the rounds to promote 17 again, the comedy he did with Zach Afron. And he turned this press tour into an impromptu unpaid promo for Fallout 3. So here's a clip from his appearance on The View in April 2009. What do you went to? Like, Wii, Xbox. What's your game?

I play Fallout 3. Do you know that game? Do you really? Yeah, I don't know the game. No. No, she's not. She. I just got into B-WOLIM.

That's all. This is something you know nothing about. But you were an avid video player. Don't you have a lot of video games. I play a lot of Xbox 360. Yes. I had to go. I played Fallout 3 so often that I had to go to a hand doctor.

Wow. I did. I had to get injections in my hand. Oh, that hurts. Yeah. So you mean you can't play, you used her? hand too much and now you can't play. I'm going in a direction.

I don't think you want to go there. I really don't think you want to go there. Finally, a few days later, he goes on Ellen, and he gives her the game. Let's listen to that. I wanted to donate to you guys. I played this video game. I've talked about this before, but I played a video game

so often that I injured my hand so severely that I had to go to a hand doctor and get injections in my hand because I love this video game so much. So the game is called Fallout three and I uh yeah you know the game they're just doing that yeah I'm not affiliated with this game at all I just love it and so but I signed it so it looks like I created it about what is it it's a post-apocalyptic world I say run around and kill things I see and you say it's 666 is the number that you have wow all right then you have the Xbox as well there's an Xbox

360 in here that I sign to have you ever your hand playing a video game to the degree that you would need a doctor or an injection. No, but that also sounds great because I just rest too much on the armrest of my chair that I'll hurt like my elbows or something from gaming for too long. Yeah. Also, man, the life of a rich, rich, rich gamer. You're like, ooh, inject me. Yes, I need medical attention, please.

I don't think of Fallout as a big button-mashing game. Can you imagine how must- of forever? Yeah, like how much must he have been playing to get carpal tunnel or whatever he had? Fallout 3. Oh, no. Also, if you're new to gaming, to be fair, when I started gaming, I wasn't used to it. So it was really quick that my hand hurt.

Maybe he just, and then again, he's Matthew Perry. So he was just like, ooh, it hurts. Botox into my hand. I don't know if he had this angle in mind, but because he was talking so much about his love for Fallout, Obsidian, here's he's a huge fan. One thing leads to another. and he ends up voicing Benny in Fallout, New Vegas in 2010. Great role, great performance.

That is rightly what most gamers remember about Matthew Perry. But here's what I remember best. Fallout is not the only game Perry was playing around that time. And we know that because a few weeks after those talk show appearances on May 5th, 2009, he tweeted, and I quote, about to try a new video game called Clonoa. I'll let you all know how it is. I'm 39. Do you remember Conoa?

No. Okay. Well, it was just sort of a side-scrolling platformer. And so he was trying it out May 5th. Then 10 days later, he tweets again in case you thought maybe he didn't play Klonoa that long. May 15th, many of you have asked what Klonoa game I am playing. It's the new one on the Wii. I'm at level six. I play with my pants around my ankles.

Matthew Perry. Matthew Perry. Absolutely legend. Matthew Perry. Yeah. Using Twitter for what it was. What was meant for exactly what you're doing in that moment. Yeah, what you're doing in that moment.

Exactly. Yeah. And in his memoir, which was published last year, Friends Lovers and the Big Terrible Thing, he was writing about that time. He said, I was basically retired. I generally didn't think I'd ever work again. I was insanely rich.

So I just played video games and hung out with myself. He said, I couldn't retire. And there was only so much time a grown man could spend playing video games. So tell me what, ooh, I, when you said that, it sounded kind of sad. Then I was like, damn. Yeah. I would be in heaven.

Yeah, insanely rich. Don't talk to me ever again. I'm insanely rich. And I have every console. And I'm just playing every single game I want to play. Not too bad. Not too bad. But at that time, it meant something to have an adult celebrity talk about their love of games.

Right. Like, I remember Milakunis talking about playing World Warcraft in 2008, which was only 15 years ago. But in some quarters, I was covered like, what? a famous person playing video games, a girl playing games? And so to hear Matthew Perry say it at that time, it was like, hey, you know, mainstream. Like now, no one would think that was notable at all, right? Everyone plays games. I get very attached.

I get like a disgusting parissocial relationship with a celebrity that plays games. Yeah. Once I figured out Post Malone loves Magic the Gathering and plays it online with like Magic the Gathering like streamers, I was like, oh my God. Yeah, I know. What? This is what? And especially then when it was rare, it's like, oh, he's one of us.

She's one of us, you know? We have representation in the Hollywood elite. Thank God. Someone very pretty and rich is playing these games with me. And they can afford to get injections in their hand if they play too much. So rest in peace, Matthew Perry. We will think of you when we're playing the Fallout TV series next year. So let's give the people some programming reminders because we've got a busy week ahead

with coverage of three different superhero series on Thursday night. The Midnight Boys will record their instant. reaction to Loki episode five over the weekend. Jess will have her splash page breakdown. Mal and Joanna will cover the first episode of Invincible Season 2 on Friday's House of Ar. And on Monday, they'll have their Loki Deep dive. And sometime this weekend, Jess, Jomey, and Steve will break down the last two episodes of Gen V on Mint Edition. So we got a full house here. We got lots of shows running at the same time and lots of shows on the Ring Reverts and the House of Art that will be covering them. Let's talk about Alan Wake, too. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, you've been waiting.

Okay. So this is the sequel to 2010's Alan Wake, which is from Remedy Entertainment, lead writer Sam Lake. It's kind of, how do you describe it? It's Twin Peaks meets the X-Files, meets Stephen King's, the dark half, meets true detective. And as we've established, I'm a complete coward when it comes to video games. Yes, I absolutely am. One of the reasons I enjoyed Super Mario Brothers Wonder was that they took the timer out of the levels. Even a countdown timer makes me anxious.

It's like, I'm running out of time. I got a rush. So you can imagine how I feel playing Alan Wake, too. I didn't play Alan Wake, the original when it came out because A, I was scared. B, that game got good reviews, but not great reviews. It wasn't a huge hit. It's always described as a cult hit. And Remedy couldn't get a sequel made right away.

So I kind of felt like, okay, I can wait on this one. I don't necessarily need to play this. But a lot of people love it. And they've been waiting forever for Allen Wake 2. How do you catch up with a game? If you haven't played the first one and you're jumping in on the sequel or if it's been a really long time, 13 years since the first one, what do you do to remind yourself or learn for the first time what went on in that game?

Naturally for me, I will watch a video of someone else breaking down the first one. But with this, Alamake 2 is great as it opens with it. it and you can skip it. And they basically did touch on Alan Wake, the first one, is a lot more condensed than the second one is. So it isn't hard to like learn in a minute. And as long as you know what happens at the end, then you're good for Alan Wake too. And what you said comparing it to those four properties is exactly it.

So just those four properties and then here's the end of what happened to Alan Wake one. And it's been 13 years. Here's the second one. Yeah. So it's not hard to wrap your head around for this series. I always feel like games should have better previously on recaps at the start. Some of them do, but when they do, they're usually really short. And you see, even like when a show comes back for a new season, the recap of previous seasons tends to be longer than what you get in a game.

And games are so long and so much happens in them and so much time elapses between games in a certain series that I'm always like, what do I do? I feel out of my depth here. So you end up going to YouTube a lot, just watching, you know, people recapping things. This time I played in Fortnite because Epic publishes this and also Fortnite. they put Alan Wake flashback, which is like a reconstruction of the original Alan Wake in Fortnite that you can play in like 25 minutes

and you just kind of play through. I didn't play Fortnite. I didn't buy the Alan Wake skin though. No. That's how I kind of caught up here. Oh, that's nice. I didn't know that. I feel like I'm up to speed.

I understand Alan Wake 2. And it grabs you like Spider-Man. Like we were talking about with Spider-Man where they start with an opening scene that's like, okay, here we go. Al-W'd Wake 2, you're controlling, we're not going to spoil anything here. It's too soon. And also, it's hard to explain what happens on Ellenway 2.

Oh my God, dude. It is. It completely is. But you start this game by controlling a shambling, bloated corpse who is emerging from a lake. Just staring at a butt-ass naked man running. And he's like, oh, where am I? And I'm like, wait, what's going on? Yeah.

I was like, okay, so I played Al-DWake 1, but I played a little. with my brother. So my brother was really playing it. I was just there to assist. And I loved, it was like our, it was a weird, like, this is a moment in our family history of just like, oh, you play this game, you watch it, we'll do this every night for three days. And that was like, the closest me and my brother got. And so when it picked up, I was like, I don't remember. Yeah. Like it ending with a naked man running from the water. Yeah. Yeah. And just like, disassociated. He was just like, where am I? What am I? What am I doing? And then you see lights flashing, I was like, damn.

Yeah. This is as soon as the game starts you guys. Yeah. So it's just like Spider-Man. And I never played out in Wake 1. So I'm like, what? What is this game just has to be playing? And then I'm so, it's so funny playing these games and being like, man,

man, you guys don't understand. Like, I really was like, please let us play Alan Wake. And we're like, okay, let's play Alan Wake. Ben doesn't like horror games. I'm like, Ben, you're going to love this. Opens with a naked man. I go, shit. I go, damn.

I'm not saying I bide the naked man. I'm just saying. It shows up. Okay. It's a spoiler, but he does show up a lot. Yeah. And he is a character that people who played the first game will know. And terrible things happen to him. And also everyone else in this game, basically. But that, you know, it got my interest. I guess it's one way to say that opening. So what did you think of this game as a whole? Have you finished it? How much time have you spent with it? What are your early reactions? I spent a lot of time playing it, a lot of time getting lost. Like the first out of week, there's some little puzzle stuff to do in it. And as you guys know, I'm not good at puzzle games and I forget that I played the first one with my brother. So now that I started this one by myself, I was having a very hard time. We should have teamed up. Yeah. If we lived in the same city, I could have come over. I could have helped with the puzzles and you could have helped with all the scary parts. Oh, I would have done the scary parts. Easy. I was, I, and the puzzles were so, they're not as hard as you think they are. I am just very dumb. Uh, so it took me way too long.

And, um, mind you, uh, we got the game a little early and also no one did. put anything online so you can't Google the like what the issue is but yeah from the first one much more cinematic so and the first one is literally cinema like they have a song for the closing

of every chapter and it's so beautiful and it's shot like a movie there's a TV show you can watch and this one I'm like this is a movie but it's also living in a TV show and it is so fun and I love it I loved it it's so fun it's perfectly scary a little too scary at a lot of parts.

A little, a little, yeah. I kept comparing it to Outlast. And the difference, they both have the same measurement of scariness. It's just that in Outlast, the music's a lot louder, and you can just run and jump and hurdle, and it's kind of like you're in a hallway. And this, you're in the forest a lot of the time. Yes. So people look like trees.

There's a lot of shadows. You're like, I don't know. And then the gun, the gun shooting in this game is like good and bad at the same time. So yeah, I mean, it's much more survival horror than the first game, right? I mean, there were horror elements of Allen Wake, but this one is full on just like even the combat. I mean, you're always almost out of ammo, almost out of battery on your flashlight, right? Which is your standard way of building suspense and making me terrified. And the enemies, I guess there are fewer enemies, but they are harder to kill, right?

And I guess they come back from the dead. You have to kill them again. And if you don't have enough bullets, you're like, oh, they're coming back. They just, you run around, you duck a lot, you frantically look for ammo. Yeah, I've been through it. This has been quite a week for me. But I got to say, like, and this is a compliment, I cannot finish this game. Is that scary?

I cannot finish this game. When it's, okay, we're not spoiling anything. No. But when you start seeing Alan Wake, was, were you scared even then? At first, it was not so scared. After the naked dead guy. After that thing settled down a little bit. And it's like, oh, look at the Pacific Northwest and a beautiful forest.

Look at a lush scenery. This is okay. It was kind of creepy. But then very quickly, it turns into, you know, the dark presence and the dark place. And it's just very unsettling. I thought it was scarier than Outlast. Oh, interesting. I have gamely, no pun intended, gone along with all of our horror endeavor so far.

So I played Outlast for our GameSwap episode. I saw Five Nights of Freddy's. Outlast was like five hours long. and five nights is two hours long, this game is like 20 hours long? I can't live in that headspace for that long. Like, prolonged exposure to Allen Wake 2 would be damaging to me.

I like how the equivalent to that is with puzzle games for me. And I'm like, oh, I feel so dumb that I just want to throw myself through this wall. But it's so interesting because I was like, Outlast is my scariest game, but maybe it's the environment of Outlast because I'm like, I have nothing. I have no weapons.

I'm just hiding. And this, I'm like, okay, I have weapons. But also when I got to the, when I get to play as Alan Wake, I wasn't afraid at all. It was only playing in the forest where I was like, true. That is scary. Because you're also, they put wolves in it. So you're also dodging wolves. And I was like, oh, great.

And I got to kill an animal. Yeah, this was creepier and unsettled. Like, Outlast was gory, you know, but like this one, more of a psychological horror that just got to me. Did you like the, did you like the kind of the Stephen King-esque, like? Yeah. I mean, I love. I love Stephen King. He's my favorite. I've read all his stuff. But he's, even though he's known as the master of horror, most of his stuff isn't that scary. Some of it is very scary. But it's different reading a book versus playing a game. You just feel it's immersive, right? It's interactive. You feel like you're there. And it's too much for me. But I mean that in the best possible way. Like this game achieves everything it sets out to do. And it does that so well that I am too cowardly to continue. The thing is, though, I was really enjoying it. So I played for several hours. And then I reached my limit. where it's just like I have to go hide under the bed now.

But then I watched most of the rest of it. I watched play-thrues and I watched cutscene compilations because I wanted to see where it went and what happened. But I needed someone else playing it while I watched. It should have been me. It should have been me. Could have been you, yeah. The story is very fun.

And that's the part about it is like it's what I love, I love this about Spider-Man. And I was getting into this about like Final Fantasy. When we were playing it, I was like, I love the cinematic story parts. I love those cut scenes. They're so great. And Alan Wake,

is just built of that. It's not going to do that quick thing that Spider-Man did where it's like, oh, no, press square. It's like, no, you're listening to this story and you're trying to solve it. Every corner has like a little note or something hidden.

You have to literally look around a lot. And I know it's hard to look around a lot when you're scared, but you got you. And it's kind of hard because they only have like a white dot on things and you're like, I think I see something. Regardless, it's so, the storytelling is so fun. And doing it in chapters and like,

it just feels like you're in it and you're actually playing as the characters, but you're also trying to solve a murder, and I'm not good at solving anything like that. And it was, but, oh, the mind space is so fun to play in. Right. So like Spider-Man 2, but not really like Spider-Man 2. It's divided into two separate narratives, right, two playable characters.

You have Alan Wake, you have Saga Anderson, who is the FBI agent who's coming into town to try to solve these murders. And it turns out that she's also sort of a psychic, I guess. You find out more, but clearly, like, her intuition of solving these things, she's making some leaps that I think would be on a normal person, right? But as you said, she has this mind space, kind of like a mind place, mind palace where you go and assemble a cork board, basically, like a homeland, Carrie Matheson, just stringing up all the things with red yarn. I always call it the Pepe Sylvia board. Yes, exactly. It's always sunny.

Yeah, right. That thing. And it's good because it helps you actually keep the. story straight, which it would be difficult to do. Oh, there's too much information if you didn't have that board. But because you can post all the things about how they connect to each other, like, gameplay wise, did you enjoy the Allen portions or the saga portions more? That is a good question.

I want to lean saga, but it was, saga was the scariest portions for me because I'm fighting in the forest for my life. Yeah. And it was, it was a lot of me just dodging. It was a lot of me dodging because I'd run out a bullet so freaking fast. And I thought I was a good shooter and I was missing half those shots and those people were walking so slow

but it was like it took you you had to unload the entire clip to get these people down and then they would get back up while you're reloading and that felt like it took ages. Allen it was fine because I used the same technique I was using With Saga for Allen but when I had the light I wasn't using it right

and I don't think I was using it well enough but I also wasn't afraid of the shadows so I just ran through them or ran past them. I thought the puzzles were more interesting in the Allen parts because in the saga parts, it's just like a fuse burned out, go find a fuse, right, so that you can turn the lights on again. And I like the mind place, but I didn't feel like I was solving the crimes, really. I was just kind of placing things where it told me to place them. Were you just hovering it over places and then waiting for it to connect?

Yeah, which helped me keep straight the story. But in the Allen parts, his equivalent to that is like the writer's room, right, where he's shaping reality as he tries to escape the dark place. And that I thought was kind of an interesting mechanic, just like reshaping the world by changing things in his head. I like that. But what I liked about Saga was also when you're in the Mime Place, it was like, yeah, you can be here, but it's not a safe space. People can still hurt you. And I was like, oh, so that made me rush getting in there and getting out. There was one mission that I remember that was optional.

And it was really hard for me to solve. And I don't think I ever actually solved it with Saga, but it involved doing the mine place portion. And I was like, I can't figure this out. But it does, it is just to echo what you said, it does help me keep track of the story. Yeah, yeah. Because I was like, what? Which one am I doing now? I was like, where am I at now?

Also, a charm for my daughter and a bird is dropping it off. I was getting so mad and confused. Yeah. But yeah, I liked playing a saga more than I like playing as Alan. I like saga the character a lot. I enjoyed the narrative portions of that. Yeah. And it's so inventive and creative, as you said, just like blending the cutscenes with the live action.

then also just the live action cutscenes, right, where it's, you know, actual footage. Sam Lake, who wrote the game, plays Alex Casey. Alex Casey has different incarnations in the saga timeline and also in the Allen timeline. It all is a jumble and it comes together in one way or another. But Remedy has always done that in its games, you know, going back to controlled Quantum Break, which had just like TV show portions, basically, where you were just kind of playing for a while and then watching for a while. I think it's much better integrated here where there's some really creative parts, you know, where he's going on a talk show, right?

And you're just watching the video. It's great, great portion of the game. And you never know, because, you know, there will constantly be stuff that's playing on screens as you go through. And it's always terrifying, but often very funny, too, in just like a really absurd, surreal way. So there is some humor there if you don't want unrelenting darkness. Well, it's only like during the daylight. that we're not talking we're not going to get too deep into the game but that talk show was so it was so great and I would that was the cinematic part that I was like oh my god I was like give me

more of this like it's just jump cutting to the most they're like using every form of entertainment in the show they're using music they're using a talk show they're using movies they're using commercials the radio guy that's like oh what's it gonna be dan he's like rain it's like over and over again and also if you did play the first out in wake there are a lot of easter eggs in it. Not just from like the people, but like the things around the city and doing all that stuff. Not a real place in Washington State, but beautiful. Yeah, just as beautiful as Washington State. It's so good. And I think that's what I got to those commercial parts or like you're walking past a computer monitor. You can go check the email, see what people are talking about. It blows out that

world so much more. It makes you love it more. And it's like, oh, there's so many hidden things I can do. Yeah. I can go look at this and figure out that the, This person's cheated on this person. Right. Some other shit. And it's a beautiful game, too. Whether it's just the dark forest, whether you're in Bright Falls, the fictional town, or kind of the New York but not New York world where Alan Wake is trying to escape, it's like just great.

It's gorgeous. The natural beauty or the griminess of the city and great contrast between those, because when you're going back and forth between Alan and Saga, it's just a totally different setting and aesthetic, but both just so well designed and just pretty to look at. I didn't write this game. I had nothing to do with this game. But I feel like when you praise it, it's praising me by proxy because I was like, we need to play this game.

Yeah. I kept comparing how it looked to Spider-Man because I kept being like, damn, like even the faces, everything looks good. Everything looks so nice. To be fair, and this is where I'm not trying to give them points, they put a lot of attention to detail on the sky, like the skyline of the forest with the fog during the day on the water. And I was like, damn, they really put in every inch.

of work to make this look like Washington State. So I was like, I'm not giving you points because this was too much. But everything else was great. That contrast was insane. And it was also like it was so nice, breath of fresh air to have like this woman that's like an FBI agent. She keeps bringing up her daughter. She's working really hard. Everyone's like, hey, slow down.

She's like, no, I'm not. She's working in like the bright lights doing everything on the ground. And then we get Alan Wake in the dirty, crusty place. And he's like, please get me out of here. I'm scared. And you mentioned the callbacks to the original Alan Wake. There's also just like a remedy connected universe at this point, which I don't know if you're into that. Like, you know, that's the Stephen King inspiration.

Obviously, Stephen King's work. It's very self-referential and dark tower kind of creeps into all of his other work and vice versa. Now you have this remedy connected universe where Alan Wake and, you know, all the Alan Wake semi-sequels, right? Because before Alan Wake 2, there was Alan Wake's American Nightmare and there was DLC and then the AWA. AWE for control, right? But the control universe and the Allen Wake universe very much kind of crossing over, right, with the Federal Bureau of Control. Oh, yes, yes. They're kind of building up this tantalizing, you know, for people who are really into remedy games, just like want to go down the rabbit hole.

There's a ton of tantalizing stuff here if you're into the Reddit type theorizing. I wonder how many, if they're going to wait another 13 years because I don't want them to. No. I'm sure they wouldn't like to. How is this game doing? Do we know? I don't think we have a great indication of that yet. Yeah, but the reviews are really strong, obviously.

It seems like there's a ton of interest. Probably the Halloween timing doesn't hurt. But I think this basically just seems like it's everything that Sam Lake and that Remedy have been trying to do over the course of decades and a bunch of different games here. This just feels like it all kind of coming to fruition in just a very mature way. Like, it's hard for me to say I enjoyed the game. It's so good, though. But I so admire the game. I think you could recommend it to someone that likes a horrid and scary games.

Unreservedly recommend it to someone who has a stronger constitution than me. And that's all we need because the first game didn't do that well. Or at least when I was younger, I remember being like, no one's talking about this. No one really cares about it. I just like that it was scary for me and my brother. And we played in the dark in the living room. And my roommate play is a big Alan Wake fan too. And he was like, no one liked the first one as much as like the.

group, the small group of fans it had. So we need the second one to do really well. And I'm like, it is so nice. It's so beautiful. It's so scary. It's such a good jump scary game. And I'm like, this is a perfect jump scary game that's not over the top like five nights at Freddy's video a game was.

Like that one is just just jump scares. It's like, we're going to jump out of vent. Yeah. This isn't just jump scares. There's just a deeper, more unnerving, just creeping hard. The psychological part is. And I think that's why I like Saga so much. It was so crazy to be playing this game and be like, oh, I don't, I'm not playing as Alan Wake.

I was like, I love playing a saga. I was like, I love Saga's storyline so much. And I just love the pieces that they gave her to play with. And honestly, making her badass black chick makes it even better. I'm just trying to be there for my girls. Yeah. And I don't think that this game wants to be so inscrutable that you can't tell what's going on. Again, like with the MINDPACE.

It's, you know, helping you figure out what is actually happening. but there are always levels of surrealism and meta and like, is this a commentary on the franchise or remedy or gaming in general? And there's a quote at the beginning of Alan Wake where he's doing the voiceover and he says in a horror story, the victim keeps asking why. But there can be no explanation and there shouldn't be one. The unanswered mystery is what stays with us the longest and it's what we'll remember

in the end. So without spoiling anything, I'll just say like I think it adheres to that philosophy of like, we don't want to explain everything because we want to hook you with something. things that might not make sense or even some loose threads so that you'll want to come back for Allen Wake 3, right? So not explaining everything is how they pull you in, because that just makes people want to dive in more and theorize about what this all means. Oh, my God.

It's, I wish I could write like that. I wish I could write like that. The parts that Alan Wake got to say, I was like, damn, I got really rode out an entire screenplay and was like, yeah, here he goes. Yeah. So that's Allen Wake 2. Go play it. great game, another great game in a long list of great games that we've gotten to play recently.

We're only talking about great things today on today's office. Oh, of course. Only things that have just met with sterling critical acclaim, which brings us to our next topic. This episode is brought to by Nass Energy. Every ounce of dirt, sweat, and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard fought place. They're all jammed inside every can of Nass Energy. High performance energy for burning the midnight oil and the and pedal to the metal human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead, crack open a can of Nas energy and get after it. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts.

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Corn salsa. 40 grams of protein made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweetgreen wraps hit different. Order now at order.com. Five nights at Freddy's. Yeah. One more thing, by the way, about Alan Wake, it's a discless game. It's not coming out on a disc, which has caused a lot of consternation.

Why not? So what they have said, I mean, there are a few reasons why it might be, one, just the expense of manufacturing disks and boxes and everything and environmental costs. They've also said it allows them to work on it a little longer without it being in a playable state because if you have to actually manufacture it and ship it out to everyone, then you've got to get it ready a little sooner. So they're saying that, hey, we can take every amount of time that we possibly can get here and we can polish it up to the last second. And also, most people are playing without the disc anyway now. But a lot of people are saying, yeah, but how are we going to preserve these games, right? You know, if things all become discless and you can no longer access,

them on the server or whatever, like the original Alan Wake was, I think, inaccessible for a while on Steam. And we've seen what that has happened with streaming services with TV shows just disappearing, right? So if we don't have it on a disc, how can we preserve it for the future? And also, you can't really resell it, you know,

if you want to get some money for a used game. So they're saying, like, because there's no disc, we can keep it $60 instead of $70. But it's a big difference that... I think... $10 is, you know... I would rather be more. It's probably a way to...

of the future because, you know, we've been talking about like, will game consoles even have discs, you know, you can get discless versions of consoles now. So what do you think? Like, if this is a trend setter, is that a bad thing if we move away entirely from physical media? I'm that weirdo, and maybe that was not the right word to use. I'm that weirdo that I understand the argument when my friends are like, what happens when everything bad happens? My friend has an entire living room walls, all four walls filled with his Blu-Race. It's cool. And literally every single one. And he also puts them on his voodoo. So he literally is like, I have them

digital, but I also have my heart copy. And I was like, if the pen, like, if, something happens. Yeah, he's like a meteor's coming. Streaming pepper. I'm coming straight to your house, Garan. You know, damn well I am. And I respect that. And I like that. And that's why. And I, but I think in Alan Wake too, and it's like, who it is. They should come out with a disc eventually.

Yeah. And I could see them coming out with one later down the line being like, hey, we're now just releasing like a really update. Like, here you go. And it's like, oh, yeah. I personally have a PlayStation that's discless. Even my Nintendo Switch, I don't buy the games. No, it's true. Yeah, I have an Xbox with a disc drive, but mostly I'm just digital only now, right?

So I, on the one hand, I wouldn't even notice, but it seems like it might be better if there was the option at least. I'm waiting for when the aliens show up or when the zombies break out. And my friends will be there. And I'm like, you deserve to have a disc. I personally am just like, I'm a storage person. I'm such a minimalist when it comes to storage. I was like, I'm not doing this. But it does suck when, like, I did want, well, a lot of Nintendo games I wanted to give to my nephew and I couldn't.

Yeah. So I understand. I hope you're right, though, that, you know, if there's DLC and patches and whatever else, like maybe eventually just, you know, limited edition, collector's edition, whatever it is. Just make it available. Okay. Hopefully we'll be able to buy Five Nights at Freddy's on physical media. Yeah, I know you will. Five Nights at Freddy's directed by Emma Tommi, produced by Blumhouse, the super successful horror film Factor.

Didn't expect it to be this successful with Five Nights at Freddy's, but wow. So starring Josh Hutcherson, Elizabeth Lale, Matthew Lillard, and Mary Stewart Masterson, loosely based on the game Five Nights at Freddy's, which came out in 2014 and has spawned several sequels. Now, the critical reaction, not quite equivalent to Illinois 2's, right? As we speak, I think it's like 33 on Metacritic, 26 on Rotten Tomatoes. So it felt like a throwback, you know, after all the successes we've had with video game adaptations, when I saw these reviews, I was like, wow, it's old school. This is how we used to feel when a video game adaptation would came out. It would always be terrible. However, very strong user ratings, an A minus cinema score from people in the theater, which I think is unusual for any horror movie. And even though it came out on Peacock the same day that it hit theaters, so you could stream it. Huge weekend. Huge weekend. at the box office blew away all expectations, $78 million domestically, $131 million worldwide, biggest horror opening this year, third biggest all-time inflation unadjusted,

biggest Blumhouse opening, second biggest opening for a video game adaptation behind the Mario movie, $25 million budget, so it's already a huge hit. Yeah, I don't know what. Blumhouse is just like, you know what, we'll just keep making money. Right. Yeah, I mean, hard movies can make bank even. without having this kind of weekend at the box office. But obviously, if you do, then everything else is gravy.

I don't know whether it'll have a steep decline, whether the word of mouth will be hurt by the reviews or not. They're already on a good start, so it doesn't really matter. It doesn't even matter. At this point, it's all profit, right? And hard movies don't depend on reviews as much as some movies and other genres, I think, generally because people just, they want to go to the theater and they want to be scared collectively and have people scream around them.

But it's not an automatic, like the Exorcist believer, which came out this month. Also from Universal and Blumhouse didn't do that well. No. So why do you think this is such a huge hit? We've both seen it. You liked it more than I did, but you're a bigger Five Nights at Freddy's fan than I am. What did you make of this and why do you think it's been such a sensation? I think it's been a big sensation because of three things.

One thing, it was definitely created for the fans. And the fans are big, which goes to my second thing. We forget how big and in depth and long Five Nights of Freddy's is in the lore that it had, like the chokehold that it had on the population. The fact that, like, half of Hot Topic was literally Five Nights of Freddy's merch. People love this stuff. And it reached, because it's so old and so big and so long, it has different people reading it, to playing it, to watching breakdowns of it. It, the audience ranges from adults to teens. And those teens, Halloween weekend, are seeing that movie.

If there's one thing I learn as an adult, it's that, and I forgot this at, and I was one of those teens, during Halloween and October, teens want to go out and be teens. and do teen things. And going to the movies is the most like universal thing for teenagers to do. And this is a PG-13 movie that they can go see. And it's scary. So they're like, oh, we can all go and hang out there at the mall and go see Five Nights at Freddy. So I think a lot of that fan base actually showed up and showed out. And that was me included.

Yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, I have a quote to that effect from Jason Blum who said. And the movie was optioned like right after the game was made. I think the year after 2015. And it's just here now in 2023. He said one of the reasons why the movie took so long is that in Hollywood, sometimes not always it makes the mistake when they're adapting a super popular book or a super popular game to start out at the very beginning to make a movie that not only will satisfy the fans of the book or the game, but bring in a larger audience.

There's always that pressure to bring a larger audience. One of the reasons this movie took so long to do is because that's how we started to develop it. But what became clear through the development process is that that's not the only way to pull this, or is that the only way to pull this off was to make the movie for fans of Five Nights at Freddy's. And if anyone else came, fine. And clearly I think other people came, but also there are a lot of fans of Five Nights of Predys. It's, I love my favorite topic of discussion and to talk to directors and writers that

are doing video game adaptations is about that question of like, are you going to make it for the fans or for people that are new to the, to whatever it is. The Mortal Kombat guy was like, I had to try to make a balance of both. And you can see that in the movie. You're like, he's trying really hard to do fan service, but he's also like, new people need to come see this. Five nights of Fridays the entire time. And if you see it in theaters, maybe it was different for you.

But like a lot of kids that, or people that saw it in theaters were like, you could see people erupt at certain moments and people were like, why are they erupting? And it's like, oh, because that's their favorite video game streamer. This was a character that jumps out and scares you from the vents. This is the character that is from the sister location,

game like four or whatever, and she's not moving. We all know who she is. So I was like, oh, they made this clearly and only for the fans. And they Like, whoever wants to come on board, come on board. Josh Hutcherson is here. Yeah. I was very relieved that I was actually not that scared by this movie, which I don't know

whether that's a bad thing. Because if you're looking to be really scared, again, I have a pretty low bar for what scares me. So if I'm okay, then I feel like if you're an actual horror person, then it's not going to be enough for you, right? Like, there were only a few jump scares and like some kind of creepy moments. But on the whole, I tolerated it pretty well. It felt more like a thriller.

And it was like racing against time. So it was a lot, my emotions in the movie were just solely off of like, hurry up. Why would you put that there? Yeah. Go this way. Yeah. I was not scared at all. Honestly, if there was like a scoreboard, I would give horror, none.

Practicals A plus. The acting, yeah, great. Decent. Writing, okay. But for like fan stuff, yeah, you got it. Yeah, you did it. Piper Rubio, who played Abby, the girl, was great. I thought she was incredible. Were you upset? I can't talk about it right now because I

I am I want like a million babies and when I saw her she did this one reaction that was just like, can I have another sandwich? And I was like, I'm going to go make a sandwich. I was like, I'm going to make a sandwich for someone. Someone's going to eat the sandwich. She was perfect. I think that casting was like one audition and was like, oh, she's a perfect girl to play this part. Yeah. You'd think having a daughter I wouldn't be so scared of kids in horror movies anymore. But no, I still am. But not her. I love you.

She was great. I was rooting for her. I love her. The tone, I guess, felt a little hard for me to pin down. And I'm not a big Five Nights at Freddy's fan. So, you know, it wasn't that scary. But then it was kind of campy at times. Like, it has to be because, you know, you're talking about these animatronics that are possessed by, like, the spirits of kids.

Right. And so even though those were practical effects done by the Jim Henson company instead of CGI, which, you know, I think. I think they looked good. I loved it. Yeah. And so the idea of these, like, you know, kid killing animatronic monsters, you'd think you'd want to lean into kind of the campiness of it. And it didn't really. Like, there was a lot of exposition and, like, serious storytelling.

And I couldn't quite tell whether they were going for super scary or, like, super serious or actually, this is very silly, you know? 100%. Yeah. There was a lot of parts in it where I was like, this is a little too serious than it is. campy. It was when Josh Hutcherson is chasing after any of the kids in the dreams. I was like, oh, the story behind this is very sad and dark and his reactions are so sad. And he's crying. And I was like, wait, I thought this was supposed to be like funny. Like a funny movie. Yeah. It was really interesting. Also, because I watched it with my roommate who isn't a Five Nights of Freddy's fan.

Or, well, like, is more so like, I've watched people stream it. I don't really understand the story. and he had a lot of questions during the entirety. He kept being like, is this person supposed to be in here? And I'm like, that's a new character. I had a lot of questions too, but I had no one to answer them for me. Oh, sorry, I should have been there. Well, it's interesting because it isn't, it is, it's kind, it's not, I didn't really play uncharted, but I do know from the movie that people are like, it's before the game basically.

Right, it's a prequel, yeah. This isn't, it wasn't real, this isn't a prequel, but they did jumble up a lot of different versions of the game. Like the character. Vanessa doesn't show up until like the later games. And she doesn't, she's not the daughter to Matthew Lillard. She's just a security guard or like a cop. And there's like,

there's so many other characters that were like kind of jumbled up. And Matthew Lillard's character at the very end of the movie says something that like in the games happens at a very different part. It's, it's kind of interesting how they handled the movie because they were like, oh, the main Five Nights of Freddy lore, in theories, put it in this movie, but also mash it together. Mash it together and put it out.

So it was just interesting because I think the Five Nights of Freddy storyline in the game is actually very cinematic and very scary. And then they kind of changed it all for the movie. Yeah. And I think they're clearly hoping that this will be the beginning of a franchise, right? Which when I saw it in a screening, I was like, I don't know if that's going to work out for them. Well, now. Now I'm like, well, I'm sure that's already been greenlit. That's the plus side about, I saw it being like, oh, I think they already expected a second movie because I see how it ends.

But I'm like, okay, now take the notes from people that haven't, that don't know Five Nights of Freddy's and maybe lead into that a little bit more. Which I think Blumhouse is really good at doing. They'll make a second one that's even more scarier or just be like, oh, maybe we should tone it down. Maybe we should go back a little bit. Yeah. I mean, this just seems like maybe the clearest illustration yet of the power of video game adaptations. Or the fans. The fans, Warcraft and this did very well.

They can't be stopped, right? It's just like, you know Hollywood, which is already cranking these things out, as we've discussed, now they're like, you can't miss, you know? I mean, we talked about the really successful ones. We talked about like the prestige adaptations, like The Last of Us, right? And that was always going to be, okay, HBO Sunday night. Like, this is going to be super high quality and cinematic. And then we talked about ones that sort of surprised us, right? Like twisted metal, really?

That could be a game. That could be a show. We didn't expect that that could have the source material to make that work. And then we were surprised by how much we enjoyed that series. Then Mario, you know, that makes more money than any other movie. But Barbie this year worldwide wasn't that great a movie, but it was fine. You know, it was like, hey, let's just make a Mario movie. People will come out and see that.

And now you have Five Nights at Freddy's, which gets banned like video game adaptations used to do. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't put a dent in the earnings, right? It's just like, I'm sure the Halloween timing helped and everything. But now it's just an illustration of the power of gamers just voting with their wallets, right? Just like, hey, we want to see this stuff. I think also, even though the theaters are coming back, I still think people miss the theaters from the pandemic. The first movie that came out, that was like a video game adaptation from the pandemic was, wasn't it Mortal Kombat?

Maybe. Or no, was it Mortal Kombat? Or was it? Yeah, someone was fighting for it to come for everybody to go theaters. I watched on HBO instead. But like people missed it so much. And also there's such a different time before the pandemic with the video game adaptations than now because they're so campy. And I was like, I think they learn not to take themselves so completely seriously that they're like, no, let's lean into this.

Let's not keep this grounded. Let's lean into this fun. We don't need to make another movie where like it's, it's Tomb Raider. Right. It's Tomb Raider. Yeah. There's a point where Mike, the main character, says, I'm having trouble processing what happened. And that's how I felt.

but it's okay because clearly, you know, it worked for a lot of people. And the fan base is that rabbit that they will. I think Blum said that like he's never worked with any property where the fans were just so committed and so interested in seeing something. Oh, I've been talking about this.

I was like, well, I'm going to go see the damn movie. Two things. One, in the movie, there's a cameo for Matt Pat, the streamer breakdowner that does a lot of Five Nights of Freddy's content. And he When I first saw him I was like This man is talking way too much

They put too much lines in his mouth But at the very end he goes Or is it the theory And I went The fans went crazy for that Because this is the guy The theorizes everything Right now I'm saying it out loud

Gen Z put me in your things I do breakdowns for you guys All the time Make me a cameo Kill me if you need to Secondly Jason Blum Him being like

Yeah fans help This is really nice And then we pan over To Greta Gerwig who is about to do the Chronicles of Narnia and she is so scared of the fan base.

And I'm like, yeah, it's so interesting to see the different fan bases of like video games they do want to support. They're going to go to the movie theaters and go see it. And then like,

this was a big book, a big book that a lot of people read and they're like, don't you fuck. Yeah, no, I mean, there will be backlash sometimes with gamers too. It's just like,

it's not faithful enough. It's not the game that I knew. Yeah, because people were kind of mad, the fans of Warcraft or did not like Warcraft but me, who's never played Warcraft.

Love that movie. All right. Well, with the boss rush of October blockbusters behind us, Buttmash will be returning to a biweekly schedule for the rest of the year. But we still have some big releases to look forward to. We'll also be checking out some great games that slipped through the cracks while we were playing Ballersgate and Starfield and Spider-Man and Mario. And, of course, we will have what I imagine will be a lengthy and heated debate

about the game of the year coming up in not too long. So contact us at ringerverse gaming at gmail.com with your thoughts. Thanks to Isaiah Blakely for producing. Thanks to Arjuna Ramkapal for senior managing the ringerverse and sitting in on this recording. Jess, so nice to see you in the flesh. In the flesh. Yeah. Flash inside out.

I don't know why that was the first thing in my head. Maybe it's all that five nights of Freddy's. Yeah, maybe so nice. Never again will we ever shoot again in North America. Maybe we'll meet somewhere else next. Where should we go next? Next time in my hometown. How about that? No, I'm not going to do it.

Okay. Happy Halloween, everyone. I'm going to go cower in my room for a while. Bye. You've made your last delivery, kid. Sorry you got twisted up in this scene. From where you're kneeling must seem like an 18-carat run of bad luck. Truth is, the game was rigged from the start.

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