The Ringer-Verse - 'Andor' Episode 12 Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

Fight back and tune in! It's time for the Midnight Boys to give you their instant reactions to the explosive Season 1 finale of 'Andor' (06:23). They discuss the impact this show has had with the larger IP era as a whole. Later, they give the first season a ranking on the 'Midnight Meter' and discuss what they would like to see in Season 2 (47:59). Hosts: Charles Holmes, Van Lathan, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Productional Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Nexus podcast fee for all things fandom. We are Colg baby Chuck 24-carried closer aka the brunch hottie

we are Steve the architect Alman he is back the builder of things we are

old man van he of the receding resurgent rejuvenated hairline and we are jock and joe me a dinner on

unfair me jack and jock and joe joe joe and jock and jock and joe joe joey joe Jock and Jome. You're leading into something that was your idea.

You ain't Jock and Arjuna's style? That's not. I asked, listen, no, Charles wasn't even there. Charles wasn't there. Charles wasn't there. Before we get to the rest of the podcast, we have to tell this story about Jomey real quick. See, but y'all going to lie.

Arjuna, our illustrious producer, has this crazy, just looking like amazing phone case. Star Wars phone case. Star Wars phone case. So Jomey asked, Arjuna's fiance, like, hey, where'd you get this phone case? I would, I would like to get something similar. Instead of Jomi getting a different phone case, he decides to jock our tuna.

Jocke. Jocke in their style. Can I say what happened? Can I say my piece? No, because you're wrong, Jomey. Can I say my peace, right? Pretty much basically what you said happened. Except.

Oh, wow. All right. Except for an every, very interesting conversation at the Black Panther Junket, where me, Arjuna, and Van are sitting next to each other waiting for the movie to start. And I was like, Arjuna, bro. Man, I went to that website, Sarah gave me for the cases. There's no good cases, bro. You only got the good one.

Arjuna's like, cool, man, get it, man. I was like, Arjuna, I can't get the same phone case as you. That's not how that works. It's going to look like a good one. I'm jocking him style, right? I'm like, I tap Van, who's sitting right next to Arjunum, I'm like, Van, can I get the same case as Arjuno, right? That's not me jacking his style.

Van was like, no, man, it's cool. Go ahead and do what you want to do, bro. Like, that's like, that's old stuff, bro. Like, there was a guy when I was a kid who started, he started wearing rings, right? And then, and then I started wearing rings. All right. Let's wrap this story up there. Like, he thought,

Steve, Steve, let's move on. And we are seven in my boys. He's kind of lie on me. I'm not laid it slide. I'm not laid it slide.

Follow us on socials. If you follow us, Jomi is in control of the socials. He'll probably change his background to whatever yours is. Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok. Save Jomey's job

and also give him ideas about his personal style and how he should, like, craft his tweets. You probably, You probably been stealing tweets. I'm going to have to look. You got any more vital TikTok's plan, Jomey?

You know, I'm in my bag. You got to lock in. Prong time hours right now. Wow. Got to lock it. Friday, the House of R will be giving you their deep dive on the season finale of Andor. Sunday, Min edition returns

to give you their thoughts on the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special featuring DC Daniel Chin. I love Daniel. Daniel's so talented and great. Saturday at D.C. Monday,

it's the House of Midnight, talking about the 1988 fantasy classic Willow in anticipation of the premiere of the Disney Plus series, Willow. Willow was something I made all the Midnight Boys watch

besides Charles. I'm happy. I'm happy. It was a bonding experience. I can't wait to see what I was happy. Charles, you know what, Charles? I, I, I can't wait until Andor's over so you can go back to being the sad bastard that you are.

Jesus. With all of this stuff. Oh, you only know what I've noticed, though? Nobody gets on my, like, shit when I'm, like, being positive and I'm loving stuff. Everybody's mean to me when I hate stuff. What's going on? Like, y'all can't, like, be like, I'm in. Is that a real?

Of course. I'm just saying, I've been positive for, like, fucking three months. straight. No, I wouldn't say three months. It's been a while. It's been no, because no, because named the last thing we talked about

who I was negative about. I mean, you just shit on Willow. Like, literally. I didn't shoot on Willow. You said, did Charles shit on Willow guys? I've never seen it. How could I? Semantic, I'm happy.

Y'all are happy. Yeah, just wait to wait till wait till fucking moon night season two. Oh, I'm not doing that shit. I'm tapping. Yeah, shit. Come on, man.

Come on, man. On today's show, we're giving you instant reactions to the season finale of Andor. Nothing matters. And I just got to be honest with you guys. Nothing makes sense. Get ready for superlatives. Get ready for praise. Get ready for waxing poetic.

Get ready for Charles to say something and then Jomi to repeat it. Jock and Jock and Jock and Jock and Jokka Jomee. Look out for like, I agree with everything you just said. And. And. And. Look out for a lot of stuff because the show is still kicking. Steve, give me the spoiler warning.

We're getting ready to talk about Cassian Ander. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right. In order to spoil it, in order to talk about it, we have to put you in the know. In order to do that, Charles has got to give you the Midnight Manifest for Andor episode 12. And this is the Midnight Manifest for the season finale of Andor, directed by Benjamin Cairn, written by Tony Gilroy.

Everything comes to a head on Ferris, where the majority of the major players are finally on the same planet. Cassian has returned to pay respects to his mother and rescue Bix. Nemex Manifesto helps give him the resolve to begin the fight. Luton, Val, and Sinta want to capture and kill Cassian before the Imperials do, while Deidier has arrived trying to smoke out Andor, while Cyril and Linus are also looking for Andor. Brasso is trying to lay Marva's funeral brick to rest under the imperial occupation, while the little homie whose father died before Bix is making a bomb. Like a powder kick, everything turns bad at the funeral.

B2 emo broadcast a final message from Marva asking the people of Therick to stand up and fight, and an imperial officer tries to stop the message and kicks B2 emo. Then Brasso defends B2 and a riot breaks out. The little homie finally throws the bomb he was making in the beginning of the episode, while Cyril manages to save Dieter's life during the skirmish, and the chaos and Or also saves Bix. Meanwhile, Mon Mothma makes a very strategic play when she accuses her husband squandering money, thanks to his gambling addiction, which she seems to know that the imperial driver spying on her will overhear and report back to the empire.

By the end of the episode, we see that Mothma has allowed her daughter to meet Daph's son, and then Andor's crew, which is consisting of Big Sparro, the Little Horme, me and a few other people managed to escape the planet with Andor promising he will find them. And Andor gets the drop on Luton and finally joins the rebellion. This has been your midnight manifest for the season finale of the greatest show of the year. All right. Big picture thoughts. Chuck Wagon, what did you think of the season finale?

I'm so sad that it's over. But boy, was this ride, the ride of a lifetime. I had chills watching this season finale. I think what Tony Gilroy and his team managed to do, I want to send a special shout out to Diego Luna because I think there have been so many amazing performances that sometimes you take what Diego does for granted. But I got chills this episode, seeing him finally become the hero that we know,

where this is something like Tony Gilroy has not shined away from being like, no, this is the story about how someone, how Cassian becomes someone that can sacrifice himself for something larger than himself. Throughout this season, the way Diego Luna's acting, the way Cassian is acting, this

is like this seedy guy that doesn't care about anything but himself, who is out for himself first and foremost. But in the back of your mind, you're still like, wait, how does he become this hero? And this was the first episode where I was like, this is the feeling of watching

Superman fly. Like this is the feeling of watching like Spider-Man swing. This is the, I think this, so much of this show is about like heroes are not born. They're made, which is like a cliche, but we literally in this episode finally got to see, there's this shot of Diego Luna after he puts Nemex notebook down after he's listening to it, where he's standing in the ship. It's raining. And he looks out. He knows what he has to do. And I'm like, okay, this is acting. This is. This is sublime. This is fucking cinema. Now who's jockeying.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Jeremy feels bad about it. So look. So this is, look, guys, we have to talk about this. So what you all said is spot on. Part of the

hero's journey is understanding why they're a hero. And interestingly enough, understanding why somebody becomes a hero is normally the thing

that an origin story spends the least amount of time with. Yeah. It's normally the thing that you really can't get into because, you know, Superman has powers.

He is the most powerful being on earth, depending on who you talk to. And he is going to be a hero because of one of it. you know, he's been raised his entire life to understand the human condition and his father dies. Batman, one event. Spurs Batman, his lifelong, it's a fight in his trauma. He becomes a hero.

Spider-Man, one event. Changes everything. And for the rest of the time that these heroes do their hero thing, this is the thing that drives them. Great power comes great responsibility. I'm not saying that they weren't mentored over. years and years by Thomas Waynes and John Kintz

and Uncle Benz or Aunt Mays and I'm not saying that Martha Kintz, I want to leave the ladies out Martha Wayne. They have the same name. Shout out the ladies doing it from them. Shout out to the ladies. But, you know,

and then we believe that, you know, these guys become heroes and they stay heroes. In this particular situation, we get 12 episodes of the hero's journey origin story. It's what this whole first season is about, creating Cassian.

And I am more intimately connected to why he's going to do what he's going to do than almost any character. You could take Luke Skywalker. Why does Luke Skywalker want to be a Jedi? Well, partly because the force is innate within him and is calling him out to something greater. We understand that. But also partly because that's just what his dad was.

Right. His father was one. And so the why of Luke almost gets skipped in Star Wars. He wants to fulfill a destiny that he has an innate calling for, but also because it's what his dad did. None of this is true of Cassian. There are so many different things. There's a little revenge in there. There's a little purpose in there. There's some understanding now of the direness. of the empire's rule, all of those things brilliantly, brilliantly expressed throughout 12 episodes of outstanding character development in television. Couldn't agree more with you, Charles, and I haven't seen it done better. Mint boys.

Chef, really quick, behind, you cook it. You cook it, chef. Like, come on. Bars. We are in an era where, you know, We're set with so much IP content, whether it's film, whether it's television, on all the pluses, Paramount Plus, Dizzy Plus, Amazon Prime, wherever, we're getting all of this content. And what Tony Gilroy did and everybody involved in this program did was nothing short of a masterpiece. There are moments in this finale that made me cry.

there are moments of the finale that made me cheer. There are moments over the course of the entire series that made me look at television differently to the point where I'm like, hey man, maybe Charles does have a point. Maybe we've got to start expecting more of these people because what we got over these last few weeks with Andor is quite actually some of the best television I've ever seen.

Like stop, period, bar none. What we've witnessed, like, and we said it, cinema, right? And so, like, asking ourselves, did it deliver? I don't even think there's anything other than that you can say other than, yes, absolutely 100%. This was, as far as I know, when I speaking to you right now, under the sound of my voice, the best show I've seen all year. Ooh, I'm going to cry. I'm going to cry.

Did it delivered? This shit's the Chorno. was already here. Actually, it's better than Dejorno. It's not deliourne. Dejorno is not de jrno. Hey, like, we used to have de journo parties in college. Hey, that's, rising grus.

Together. Hey, the gizurno was kind of like, did the journal was, are they paying us? No, let's get off. No. No free ass. They're going on the whole thing. Steve, who turned us back on the podcast for the last couple of weeks.

Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Well, just go home. A little vacation, that's all. Fine. That's fine. All right. That's fine. Listen, there's a running joke about, like,

summer of no expectations. There's a running joke about keeping expectations reasonable, especially in a time of IP storytelling. I don't know what we thought we expected from Andor when we first heard about it. When we first saw it, we thought it would at least be cool. We thought it would be at least be interesting.

I don't think any of us would have anticipated what we got from not just the season finale, but the season as a whole, it's been an absolutely revelatory experience to see everything that we know about Star Wars turned on its head, put under a magnifying glass, and re-examined in an entirely different way.

And it's a cultural shift for this entire IP to show it what it can be from now on. It won't be, though. It's legitimately incredible. This season finale was fantastic. I think, like, I'm getting a little ahead of myself with, like, whatever I would rate this. But, like, it's the fact that I can't possibly imagine a better season of television than what we got from Andor.

I want to come back to your culture shifting thing. Well, I'll hold on to that. That's a bigger conversation for sure. Yeah, yeah, let's put a pin in that. It's a big conversation. It's a big conversation. I'll do, because it should be, but I don't know that it will be. I call it to be.

I deem it to be. Right. I'm going to ask all you guys to do something right now. Say something negative. Oh, I already know what it is. Tony Gilroy needs to go to jail. Okay? Because the minute, the minute old Imperial homie fucking kicked, knocked over B2 email.

I'm like, not going to shit. Hey, no. Like, fuck this shit, man. We get mad. Listen, if you want, no, no, no, here, I'm going to forgive him. I'm going to forgive him for that because literally after that happened, a riot started, which is what should happen. Brasso takes the break and literally hits it, dude.

Let me tell you so, bro, I'm watching that at the krill. I'm, you know, clutch it. I'm like, man, it's about to kick off. The dude kicks beat. I'm like, let's go. Like, you better start a riot and that happens. You better start out. I'm rated.

I'm, brough. B too. It's a lot of time. That's my life. say, bro, B2 comes, bro, B2 comes out there, bro. And I'm like, if anything happens to my mother fucking

droid, okay? If anything happens to my droid, you better not, like, I won't watch the second season if something happens to B2. I'm not going through that. Like, it's, like, and then they knocked over B2 and I'm like, it was like kicking a dog, bro.

Oh, man, it was. I was ready to get fucking busy over B2 emo, bro. I was locked in. I was like, let's get it. Let's go. I need the smoke. Need all the smoke.

By the way, I was a little mad at Cassian. Cassian keep playing with B-2. Hey, it's Cassian. And I got to leave again. Fuck! Why don't you play... He sets him to safety, by the way. Why don't you play Fetch with B-2 for like five seconds before you just...

You take care of everybody. Be-to... I always say that. But it was so sweet. The parting was so sweet. This is like the first time Cassian really was just... like, no, like, you're a good boy. I can trust you. I was like,

oh, shit, man. It's great. I will keep it real. Spoiler. If I'm Cassie, you fucked her about you. Me and B-2 are just going out on a farm. Like, he's a good boy. We're just going to chill. We're going to just be playing fetch at like Frisbe all day. Yeah, B-2 is the man. Was there anything about the finale that you guys expected to see what did?

Only slightly more with Mon Mothma, but I think that this is probably a, bigger lead into what will be going on in her arc in season two. There's a lot going on with what needs to be happening on Farrix to kind of wrap everything up for what Cassian's going to be going through. But to know that there's just going to be, we're putting a pin kind of in Monmothema's story for the moment. There's some traction for sure, but like I feel like anything consequential with her plotline

is definitely going to be happening in season two. Any plot points that you guys felt like were sparse? Actually, I have like something that I think it's not that the plot points are sparse. What I actually think the underlying beauty of this episode is, is the way that it's shot. This is peak spy thriller type shit where the way that they're cutting between each scene, each character is finally on pharix and the tension that is built by like, this character sees this character.

Cyril sees Deidre, but Deidre doesn't see Cyril. and Orr is looking at everybody, but Deidra got a tip, and she knows where Andor is. And this, like, Luton is seeing all of it, but these people don't know. Like, the way it was shot, we spent such a long season

with some of the best, like, with some of the best speeches, these long-winded dialogue that you're like, oh my gosh, this is a Tony Gilroy production. And I think it was actually so brilliant that at the season finale, they're like, no, this is, this is the release where it's like, we told you everything we need to tell you.

We are going to show you. And I think, like, I don't know about you. This was one of the first times in Star Wars storytelling where when they blast somebody, it's always like when you hear that sound, that pew sound, it doesn't mean anything because you're just like, okay, like, we hear that all the time. When that shit started going off and people started dropping, I'm like, oh, no, this is cinema. Like, I'm like, oh, my God. Like, this person was just shot.

What's the whole thing? They shot, oh boy, and he dropped, and the camera was there for like five, six seconds. Oh, you know, he just bow to the ground. That blaster bolt has meaning. Yes. It's, it's destructive and aggressive and fucking incinerating that blaster bolt. All of these blaster bolts that we're following, right?

They look almost impotent. Jedi's are blocking them easy, hitting them back and all of that stuff. But now, no, those are death vehicles coming at you, killing people, and to show the devastation that they did to human beings. It was almost on Star Wars in a way for you to get that close to what it means to get hit by a blaster. Charles, what an amazing observation. But also think about it, the people getting hit by the blasters, I think because Star Wars is such a, it's a myth now. It is just myth. We're always following the Skywalker's or we're following the Yoda's.

These people get killed all the time. And not in one single movie or TV show where we're like, what's the life like for these people who are getting shot by the stormtroopers? And I don't know about you, but we had spent so many times with these characters. I don't even know their names that when they start dying, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is the character from the first fucking episode. How can they die?

I'm like, oh, that's genius storytelling. because now the stormtroopers, I don't know about you, the stormtroopers are scary now. Like they're just like, oh no, this is an army. This is an occupying force. That's brilliant storytelling.

They're scary. Not only do they have lethal weapons that they're using to kill people, but they're also scary because one inept stormtrooper or one stormtrooper that overreaches means that you got to go to a prison for six years. The stormtroopers seem like not,

not lackeys to have their shit, you know, somebody that we use their uniforms to run around and infiltrate. They look like the hand of the emperor now. They look like the actual, the minions of an oppressive, restrictive, tyrannical regime. And they really never felt like that. They felt like fodder for people to run through almost comic relief in a way. We know what stormtroopers are. But this show, by grounding the show, it was able to build tension and build a sense of dread

in a lot of places that we had taken for granted in Star Wars lore. So, man, I was telling Joe something here, our friend Joanna Robinson, that I realized when I was watching this episode, Marvel's funeral, Marvel comes out, brilliantly assisted by the greatest joy that's ever lived to be two. And it was,

We see Marva and she delivers from the hereafter arousing speech to pharix to cause ferricks to rise up. Do you know what we witnessed in that scene? What do we witness? The first battle of the Galactic Civil War. Ooh, the first ember. Oh, my God. This is the first ember that becomes a forest fire. Yes.

The first battle of the Galactic Civil War. Like before this, what you have are, you know, spy missions, covert operations. But remember, moving forward, there are going to be two forces, not necessarily equal and opposite, but two forces that are fighting. We're going to see big battles on Hoth. Yeah, like all of these different places, right? You're going to see this happen. This is going to be the, and this is the first time.

that people rose up in battle against the empire that we've seen. That's the first battle of the Galactic Civil War was just fought. Cassian was a soldier in it, and he vows to continue fighting it after that happens. Am I wrong about that? You're absolutely right. And I think in the aftermath of that battle, it doesn't even really feel like a win. like it feels like a moral victory for sure. It was a win that they fought.

It's a massacre. Yeah. Oh, do you want to know why I call it a win though, Steve? It's because you have to think about it. What's brilliant about this season is that we start with Aldani. And Aldani is the first thing that starts rolling. And it gives everybody in the universe this idea that like, there are crazy motherfuckers who are willing to do this to the empire.

But it's not enough for people to still stand. end up because it's a couple rogue agents. So by the time we get to pharix, what's so important about this is that regular people in a town are causing this. And what I love about what Nemek is saying is he's just like, there are places, there are battalions, there are people who are rising up who don't even know about each other yet. They don't even know that they're a part of the same cause. And to Van's point, I think ferrics is that cause.

Ferris is the thing that the galaxy needs to be like, oh no, all of us. are the same. The saws, the Luthens, all of these people. I even think Luthin, when he's looking at Ferricks, when he's looking at everything that's happening, I think it's dawning on him. He's like, oh, this is actually what we've been, this is the actual rebellion. This is something that I could not control. It's what does Nevich say? He says, freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. I think Luton is looking in that moment being like, this is bigger than me. This is something that I can not control anymore. He didn't see it going that way.

He thought he was going to be doing what he was doing in his way until he destabilized the empire enough to really put a dent in them. But to see that, that's definitely, it fucked up all of his plans, didn't it, John? Oh, 100%. Like, he came there to kill Cassian, and the thing popped off, he said, hey, I'm bouncing, brother. This is, I'm not getting caught up, but none of this, none of this BS.

And ultimately, you know, Cassian pulled. those bad guys, say, hey, man, you're going to have to kill me. Or we're going to team up, baby. Let's get it going. And that's how, you know, we get the cashing that we meet in the, in, in row one, man. It's great. Oh, can we back up really quick? Because, Jomey, I don't want you to sprint over what was probably my favorite part of the entire

episode. Fucking Cassian getting the drop on Luton, I was like, let's fucking go. And then when Cassie, like, gives it, like, that's the, that's the hardest shit when they ever do this. in movies when it's like, yo, shoot. Like, they just give you the gun. And then he's like, no game.

Kill me or take me in. I was like, fuck. Bro. Let's go. Like, I was like, what is that? Because I'll be real. I'll be real. It was a little bit.

I know Lutthin has a master plan. Lutthin has a master plan. But it was kind of like short side of Luton to want to kill Cassian straight away. I always wondered about that. I get it. I get it, but I always wondered about that particular plot point.

I think it's probably because that he literally didn't have any contact with him after Aldani, and he doesn't know where his head's at. Like, because Aldani went so well in the case that it got everybody's attention, the only loose ends that he knows that he can trust are Vell and Sinta, and that's about it. Like, the only loose end is Cassian, and he doesn't know what that is, So rather than have that liability out there, may as well eliminate it.

But now that he knows that he's on board, okay, great. Yeah, he gave him the offer. He was like, hey, man, you can come aboard, be a team. You can do bigger than yourself. He's like, no, actually, I need this bread. You know what I mean? Like, I can't really rock with it.

So Luther gave him a choice at the beginning. He said no. So he said, bet, just do this. I'll pay you. Back end, like Steve said, he can't lose, have loose ends. He can't have the empire sussing anybody out. But ultimately,

through all the things that happened to him. He was like, actually, I do want to be a part of this team. Let's get it. Shoot me or bring me in. Quick question. Is it toxic masculinity that Luton is mad that and or curved him in the beginning of the season? You think he's partially like, man, I slid in those DMs. I was asking you down.

And Cassie's like, actually, boss, I'm good. I'll take the money. You'll be fine. And do we think, like, Luton is just like, fuck this man. I'm killing. You got to die for that. You got to be No one says no. Charles, what are we doing here?

Believe that out. Luton is a little toxic. Like, go, yo. Oh, Luton is toxic, definitely. Luton is absolutely toxic. Absolutely. Marva's speech. So let's do a little speech ranking here.

Okay. So we got Luton's speech. Yes. Which is going to be tough to be. Number one overall easily. We got Marva's speech. We got the speech when they're breaking out the Andy Circus speech. Keyno speech.

One way out. Kino speech. Yeah. What am I missing? I think Nemik speech from the Aldani arc when he's talking about what you'll call it. He's like he's talking about the empire and everything he's writing. That's probably, I mean, technically the audio book of his manifesto could be considered a speech. Yes.

At the end of this episode. I think we could put all of the Nemic speeches into one. Okay. I feel like Luton has two speeches. Oh, Luton's speech in the third episode where he's essentially like, you always got to make sure you got a way out. And he's like basically given and or game. That's definitely a speech.

Oh, shit. You want to know fucking Richie from the bear. Does it count where like Richie is like, he has a couple speeches. He has a speech where he's essentially going to fuck it over everybody at the end of the Aldani arc. then he has the other speech. He also has the speech where he's basically telling the fake story about the pepper trees, I think.

I really do like that fake story. That was a great fake story knowing that was fake now. That was well delivered. So what's our top five then? I think Lutheran is number one easily and Keno is easily number two. I put Marva number two. I put Marva to. Nah, Kno's two.

Marva's at two. I put Marva to Marva to. Marva's at two. There's a most. Marva. Marva's at four. at four? Marlott's at four? Yeah. Marlis

from the grave. You back on the Coke, man. What? She's still in the top of my! No. No. That was a beautiful speech, dog. It didn't have the gravitas that I, that needs to be in the top three.

No, the way she said, these boston. I know why. I know why. Don't do this. Charles. Charles hates women. Stop! Take this shit out, bro. No, no.

We're not doing this shit today. It's almost Thanksgiving. I know why the speech didn't move you. I know I didn't mean anything to you. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, she's talking from the grave. She's saying I would fight these bastards. She starts the Galactic Civil War.

Marvel. She starts the Galactic Civil War. It's in the top five. It's in the top five. It's sex. By the way, Luther's speech is better. but Marvel's speech is right there with it. Like, it's...

It's bad. I like it. It does have the gravitas. We are missing, actually, speaking of women, we're missing one that is like, maybe not the best, like, written of them. A lot of these are just, like, poetry, but it is the acting of it.

Fucking when Deidre's, like, spit in that game at Bix, like, when she goes full, like, darko mode, that shit was fucking wild. Oh, right. All right, Deirdre. The thing you could do is bore me. That just does her thing. Yeah, the worst thing you can do is boring.

We're going to talk about her a little later in the really weird sexual attention. Oh, my God. No. Listen, I've been on this. I've been on this. I guess I should say, thank you. Casson ends up saying goodbye to Brasso, Bix, and B2. I'm glad Brasso survived.

I was sure he was going to die. No, Brasso is a cheap. Brasso is a game. Brasso is like a big. Whoa, wait. Speaking of Brasso, his speech to Cassio, in the tunnel. Great.

Let me tell you something. Let me, let me be on. Let me, let me lay it down for you. I'll quick. Let me, it's just the three of us here talking, right?

Just you guys and me, okay? I don't get emotional in, and when I watch television and movies. That's not, that's not, that's not, that's not who I am, right? Like, you know what I'm saying?

Mr. Agent's the Shield never gets a motion. Bro, you know what I, you know, like, I like, I'll like, you know, like, all my chest, you know what I mean? Like, I'll feel it, but like, I don't, like, you know, cry. I'll just be like, dang, that's, that's tough, you know.

When Cassian and Brazo were in that, that tunnel, and Brazzos like, dog, she wanted you to know, you know, that you're going to do what you're going to do. And that, and that, no, it, I'm, I'm willing to know right now. Do you want me? I'm going to read the real cool because it's actually so well written. When he says, tell him he knows everything he needs to know and feels everything he needs to feel.

And when the day. comes and those two pull together, he will be an unstoppable force for good. You missed the last one. The last one, I got it. Tell him, she wanted me to tell you that she will,

I'll love you. I love you more than anything you could ever do wrong. Come on. Dog, dog. I stopped. I paused. I had tears of my eyes. Like, legitimately,

I had to stop for like 10 minutes and just cry, bro. That was crazy. It was like in that moment. you know, he's made all his mistakes. He feels so terrible. And for him to come back to that and be like, dog, it's all right, bro. It's okay.

Everything you've done, everything you will do is going to be all right. You know, man. It tells you a lot about Cassian's foundation. It tells you a lot about what makes him, his basis, who he is at the bottom. That's right. Take a drink of that water, Jomey. Take another one. Jomey, get, Jomey, Jomey,

You all right over there, Jones? I really moved you. Can I just say, Jomey? Jomey really quick. You always take drinks. Like, you have, like, been in the Sahara Desert. Like, I'm just, like, that must be the most delicious water. It's good water.

Yeah, man. You should be commercials, actually. You'd be great. I should be a commercial agency if you're listening. Speaking of that, I want to talk about something real quick. Take a quick break. I want to talk about something. Jomi made a delightful video.

The cool, cool, cat. The black, the feather serpent coat. Cool, cool, cat. He's the feathered serpent, god. The feather serpent god. Steve, Steve, look. What? What's happening?

I'm not. I've been thinking about this. No, no, no, no, no. We all, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm not looking for anything. Wait, we all did. Kuku Kahn the feather serpent

separate god. All right. So attack him is to risk eternal war. Okay. Steve, you are one of us.

I saw you on Twitter saying that you wanted to get off a Kukukai. I did not. I did not say that. I said, you guys are having a great time outside and I'm happily

sitting inside. Jomi. That's Jomey. Didn't Steve intimate. The meme intimates that you want to be outside. That you want to be outside. You want to say it. You want a cool, cool, cool, cool.

Come on, Steve, say it. Steve, come on, Steve, Steve, Steve, say it. Steve, it's fine. I don't need it. Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve, this is a trap. I'm not doing this. Steve, you're treating a cool,

cool, cool, con, like it's the N-word, bro. Like, go ahead and get you a cool, cool, con, man. Like, it's not the same. Just let the cuckolakula cana out, man. Get a cool, get your cool, God. Come on, Steve, go for it.

Nobody's going to, Steve, it's not even that big of a deal. You're going to switch on me real quick. It's not going to switch on you. I'm telling you right now, I'm looking at this. It's like, we're talking about something that was said in the movie. You know what I mean? It doesn't, it's like, it's fine. I was looking at that like, why Steve should be able to,

go ahead, Steve. Just get one little. Cool, cool, cool, cool, car now. It's all right. It's just us. It's just us. That's super good. Okay.

Go for it. Cuck, cool, God. Easy, d'Y. Racist, son of a bit. I can't mean what you. That's got to be offensive. That's so offensive, bro. Wow.

I can't believe the way you made, the way you made, though, it's like a new Tarzan movie. The way you made your voice, you think that's how we sound, Steve? Really? Steve, Steve, you think that's how he said. I know it's nuts. Y'all got to chill on my M-East to you. It's actually pretty good.

You got to, you got a cool sentence. No, I can't do the whole sentence because then that's going to sound even worse. Nah, if you do GoogleCon is fine. If you do the whole sentence, it's straight with you. That's bad. That's bad. I'm getting me the donation to the N-C-P for you. Right, right. My black man, Clem, I have a weakness for Black Fathers.

That almost got to me in terms of just, like, emotionally. Like, seeing Clem, teach Cassiott, how to clean, these things that the empire discards when he says people don't look down to where they should. They don't look down. They don't look past the rust. It's just such an affecting thing because this is someone, Clem is someone who knows what it's like to live a life where people think that you are lesser than. And he's instilling this thing in Cassian where we're wondering this entire, if you go

back to those first episodes when Cassian's like, yo, the empire's fat. They don't notice us because they don't think that they have to. Realizing it's Clem, this father figure that was strung up was killed in the square, realizing that this is why Cassian is the way he is. It wasn't just Marva was beautiful. It was beautiful seeing a black father at this. But why do black dude got to be a snitch? Like, come on, bro.

Like, I was like, bro, why is the guy from the first? It's been tough. It's been tough for us this season. It's been real rough. We were snitches on both sides. We were. We were. Snitch for the Empire.

Snitch against the Empire. Out there with an AK-47, getting killed. You know what I mean? It was some real... Gilroy... Gilroy owes us. Your eyes are open for season two. He might have to do a whole...

He might have to do a whole Finn show. You know, like you must have to make, you might have to do a whole show with Finn. We're not going to be able to get John Boiega back as Finn, but he could be like Kevin Hart is Finn. And they do a whole. What? You can get, you get Aldous Hodge. You get Aldous Hodge for eight episodes. Oh, all this Hodge could cook.

Aldous Hodge is fucking kill Finn. But, you know, all this Hodge don't need, all this Hodge is about to do, he about to ride the Hawkman way for the next 10 years, 10, 15 years. He was great as Hawkman. Yeah. He killed his Hawkman, man. Him and Dr. Fay, best parts of the movie, I stand by. Easy call. Looking at the season two.

We got to talk about Mom Mothel real quick before we do that. Tough. Tough. Here's the thing. I think she's worse. You know, we talked about it last week. You know, is she going to fault her? Is she going to, you know, step it up?

I think the car ride home, you know, is, It was a masterclass in deception. Did you get John what she was doing the moment that she did it? As soon as, as soon as she said, hey, man, you gambling again, bro. Where my money at? I was like, ah, here we go. She's set him up. It's just a setup.

And, you know, she says privacy, the guy, you were here and put on the thing. We're like, ah. Well, she's not stupid. You know they're listening. Exactly, right? So she's absolutely 100%. trying to put her trying to put her husband in the dirt

which I mean it's tough for a marriage right like if I committed my vows to you and fuck that guy and you're trying to put me in the dirt that's tough now Magamitch deserves it his vision on yeah I don't say he deserve it

I'm just saying you know if that was my wife I would feel some type of way you know what I'm saying but you know he doesn't know any wiser he doesn't know any better and so we go back to the you go back to ISB

and he's reporting to it like oh you know he's reporting to the to the head guy like hey man seems like it's gals gambling debts instead of, you know, something for the rebellion, which, again, smart move by mom-mothin right there. Do you know what I thought she was doing that, though? I thought she was doing that so she didn't have to work, so she didn't have to marry her daughter off. I thought she was doing that to explain why the money would be missing in lieu of actually having to marry her daughter off.

Maybe they were, she was setting up the empire to give them a covert explanation as to what was going on. and then she wouldn't have to, she wouldn't have to, you know, send her daughter away or marry her daughter to Davoskolden's son, but she was just covering her basis, which,

you know, so she had to do that. And then to watch her be involved in that wedding at the end, which is very hard. It was hard. I was looking at her the whole time. I thought this.

That's just a meeting. It was just a meeting. It was just a meeting. But yeah, it was just someone, I was like, dog, man, you already know that little dude

is a, like, worst. Can I just say PSA really quick because Maga Mitch went out sad where it's like if like if your old lady like catches you in a lie like it was left kind of ambiguous whether he had, it seems like he has been gambling

because like Davos is essentially like, you know, I know your husband very well. But my man goes out so weak, kings. If you're like home girls be like, hey, yo, I caught you in this lie. The worst thing that you could do is be like, hey, we could go back to the party. I got people who'll stick up for me. I'm like, bro, what is this supposed to do?

tell you it'll tell you anything you need to know. My boy, he got me. He's clearly drunk. Hey, call my homie right now. Call him, you got to tell you right now. You tell you right now. What we did was we went to the church. You know, we had left the club and we was like, we still got a lot of energy.

Show him the screenshots. Show him the screenshots. So we didn't want to just go home because we had a lot of energy. So we called my home boy, you know, his daddy got that church. And we had him open up the church at 1.30, 145. And we hooked till about 5. Yeah. I just turn my location off because that takes a battery.

You know what I'm saying? And it's like also, it's the church. So you know they don't have like no Wi-Fi, nothing like that. Exactly, exactly. We was hooping. And then after that, I was tired. So I just slept at his crib.

Yeah. And if you don't believe me, ask him. Ask him. Ask him. Wait, you know what's worse? Do you y'all ever have a friend where it's like, his girlfriend got your number and like out of nowhere, she'll call and be like, hey, yo, where's he at?

And I'm just like, I haven't talked this motherfucker for 48 hours. and you be like, you know, he just left my crib, but yeah, you should give him a call him back. Like, he'll call you back. I hate that shit. Don't you love phone calls that are not any of your business? I hate that too, but my only problem with that is I start, hey, like, I start stretching my legs.

Like, do you know where he's at? No, I don't, but he had a fight. So if I was you, I would call the local hospitals. Van, stop playing. Yeah, come on. I'm like, I'm asleep. Man, like, Van, stop. Van, stop playing.

Van, stop playing. playing. I'm being serious. No, I'm serious. Like, before I was leaving, like, he told me to go ahead and get out of here. He was going to handle it himself. So, you know, I had to go. So you might want to call the local hospitals. And if you don't hear from, like, six in the

morning, I would say I would be worried. Because you know what you do then? You shifted. Now, not mad. Concerned. Okay? And, and like, now, as soon as he's okay, it's going to be more pliable.

You know, I tell, like, bro, you ain't shit, man. Like, come on, bro, this is insane. Bro, I'd be honest with you, bro, I told her she, I saw the last time I seen you, you was in danger. Damn, bro. What, not, how to fuck? I'm going to come up with something now.

What I'm going to say? It's like, hey, man, you need to punch yourself in the face. What you need to do is you need to head butt a wall and lump your shit up a little bit. If you lump your shit up a little bit, we can sell that you were knocked out and you were unconscious somewhere. But if you come back looking like this gravy,

she gonna know you went to the gold club, my niggins. You need to take your ass home. Tell her, don't call my phone no more. Or the next time it's gonna be something more outlandish. You know what I mean? So tell you, girl, I'm on my fucking phone. I don't like that. Clearly, you're in with the ferrics people.

You look out for me. This episode is brought to by Viori. When it comes to close, that score high in both comfort and style, Viori is my MVP. Sunday performance joggers, oh yeah. They have the perfect. I could watch a game and then go out to dinner vibe.

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But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. save at Whole Foods Market. Season two. Whoever wants to go. You know what we need to see more of a season two?

We need to see more guys, more stormtroopers, get kicked off the bell tower. Yo. That was crazy. Sparta kicked off the bell tower. Dog. He said that storm trooper, the hell.

Time grappler doesn't play. No, but seriously, season two, man, we, I mean, they announced this at Star Wars Celebration, but season two is going to be different from season one, right? This was all, this happened like within a year or so this first season. But the next season is going to be the next four years of Cassian's journey leading up to Rogue One. So if it's another 12 episodes, that means that three episodes each, just like we got, like, you know, we got many arcs and this so are going to be one year of Cassian within the rebellion.

And I'm interested to see who comes back from this season, right? We know Biggs B2 and Bras are off on a planet doing their thing. Does he come by and visit them? You know, we know Melchie's in Rogue 1. Does Melchie, like, do we see Melchie pop off in season two where, you know, he's like, hey, man, where you been? What's going on? And then the big question, our guy, K2SO, does he make an appearance? I am.

What K2SO? Okay, man. He ain't no B2? Okay, all right. I see, God, damn, Charles.

He's not B2. Nobody said that, but he's still, he's still cool. He's the Bengals. He's Desani. Wow. I have respect.

Wow. It's like some nice. Wow. Wow. Man. Wait, we skipped over this, but I'm going to put

the most cursed thought in your guys' mind. How wild would it be next season? Sierra and Diedra just have like a fucked up empire baby and they're like married and they're just like, I'm so glad you brought that up. Nah, man. That was one of the most uncomfortable. That was one of the most uncomfortable scenes I've ever watched in Star Wars.

Speak on it. I was like, I'm like, bro, stop touching, please. Stop touching each other. You both are equally. And these are both, by the way, these are two good-looking human beings. Like, we saw them at celebration. These are beautiful people. Yes, yes.

This is nothing about physical. This is all about their characters revolting. Like, two hall monitors. making out. She's just disgust on her face. Oddcast. We don't want to You see any way

That hall monitor? If you, If you, wait, fuck all that. Are you a hall monitor? You might. It seems like you were.

All right. This is in the fucking 1970s. We didn't have home monitors in my school, okay? Like, no. Then what do you care?

I don't think that's true. I don't think, I don't think that I've ever heard anyone respond like that in defense of hall monitors. this before, Chuck. I wasn't a home monitor.

You don't know. Kind of sound like he was. We had a- All right. They probably had a like safety officer. I've had enough of you

today. Okay. I'm just saying for our hall monitors out there, we don't think you're all of us. Just.

Hey, I'm gonna keep it all the way 100 with y'all. Don't do that job. That's what. Like, I don't,

I know the people are going to listen to this that went to school with me. I'm like, hey, bro. You are a traitor. You're trading on the whole.

Class traitor, true. Yeah, it was like, what are you doing? You with them now? Like, I'm trying to go to McDonald's. I'm coming back to school. Get off me. You know what I'm saying? Like, you with them?

What schools did you go to where there were all these students as home monitors? Dog, I went to school in the fucking hood where they didn't want you to leave because it was going fucking down. And they had all kinds of ways to make sure you didn't leave campus. And one of them was a student patrol service. Anyway, so Nah, that scene you know, because he rescues her

from the mob, he picks her up, and you know, this is like, this is my moment. I'm going to do this thing. You know, which, you know, he's, first of all, and we even talk about this, he had been luring at her for like the entire episode. Nasty. She's like,

oh, that's her. Just disgusting. Just, ugh. Picks her up, say it's her for the mob. Then they go into that, like, whatever closet they're in. And it's, just too close for comfort. But she's like, you. And but she's not, but she's,

she's not like running away. She was, you know what I'm saying? No, she's just like, she was, she was tidying up. And he was just there like, hey man, you know, like, like trying to be like a hero. Like, yeah, I, you know, I'm there for you. And I was just, I was frankly,

I had never been more disgusted, more disturbed in my entire life. When we were at Celebration, the actor who played Cyril was so, he was so self-aware to his character was who he was and he was like, hey, you know, I'm not a guy that you guys are going to necessarily love

and so it's been different for me and everybody was cheering like, yeah, he was like, I don't know, you're not going to want to cheer. I don't know. He's right. He's right.

He's right, the guy's all fucking it sucks. It would break down the scene. It is like, here's the thing. As much as I picked up on the weird sexual tension,

there was also this thing that is Dieter's scared because obviously she's scared of the riot but like he takes a gun and puts it by her back so she thinks she's going to die and then he's like psych I'm serial and I'm just like so you're she's she's super she's so she's incredibly shook and kind of rightfully so because she's in the middle of a riot she thinks she's going to die and she thought she was going to get pulled aside to get killed but think about what it's like like you're saved but you're like oh I was saved by she doesn't She doesn't know what his motivations are at that point.

She goes, you, but she's not sure. She doesn't know that much about him. So she doesn't know who she can trust at that point. She doesn't know who's who at that point. And she's not a wartime concealary. She's not a battlefield commander. She's ISB, so she's not used to all of that. So she doesn't know what's popping.

So he has to kind of convince her in that moment. I thought they were going to kiss. I was about to be, I was so nasty sweat, pulsating. I felt so nasty in that whole scene. It was gross. It was gross.

Let him kiss. Guys, we have to do it. It's time to give the first season to Vandor a midnight meeting rinker. Ranking. We have to do it. We have to give the midnight meeting ranking to the first season.

And I want everybody that's watching this when I said that there was a little glimmer of light that happened behind Steve. It's like a little light glimmer. It's not going to happen. again, Steve, you can't recreate magic. You should know that by now. How you said Ku Kukukon earlier.

Yeah, because that was magic. It was. You guys know what the midnight meter is. Midnight meter is the way we quantify what we think is amazing. It goes from 1 to 10, like a regular meter goes. However, 11 and 12 are reserved for things that exceed 10, 12 being for things that are incredibly groundbreaking. Who wants to start with their rating?

I'll start 12. Nobody wants to start. Everybody wants to build it up. I'll start 12. We've talked a lot about the virtues of the show. We talked about what it means, not only for the Star Wars universe, for us, right, and how this show is special,

how it's, you know, changed the way we see Star Wars, how it's changed to where we see television, you know, especially IP television in this day and age, how when we go back and we look at all the IP television shows that we've seen over the last few years, how this one stands above all the rest of them and then some.

So for that, I have to give it a six. No, it's a plain. It's a 12th. It's clear 12th. It's, you know, without a doubt, you know,

the best thing all year. 12 without, with no room for anything else, frankly, in my opinion. 12. It's a 12. I don't know if we want to relitigate the cultural shift

in what IPs story telling can be, but like, I definitely think that, I don't think a show, based, not even so much based on a property that we know of, but IP storytelling is very much about the easily identifiable, not to say lowest common denominator, or not to say, pandering, sometimes, but when we think about stories like these, it's comfort food. We look for the easily recognizable. We look for the heroes. We look for the things that are easy, kind of. And

this show is not easy. This isn't a second screen experience show. This isn't something that you can just say that you watched and then we'll go in one ear and out the other. You can't really ignore this. You shouldn't ignore this because this is something that I didn't even know that I wanted and I needed desperately. We all needed desperately. It's why we were so excited to do something like this, to be on a podcast like this, to talk about the things that we love. And I don't think that there's ever been a show based on the things. thing that we've loved for decades that can completely change what we think something can be.

And that's this show. That's Andor. And that's a 12 for me. Well, uh, guys, I think it is time. I think it is history making on the Midnight Boys. This is the first time, I believe, we are giving a new show or movie a 12 across the board. So, uh, resounding, like unanimous. A unanimous 12. This is history making. I don't know when we're going get our next unanimous 12. But the show is that good. But I want to ask you guys then. We gave this all the 12th.

And Steve, you brought this up. You know, do we think Hollywood learns the right lessons from this? Because I think I'll let Van have the floor because I think I'm more so on Van's side in terms of like, I actually don't think the machine is going to take the lessons it should. But Van, I kind of want to hear why you're a little bit. Like, I don't think they will. They won't because. That's sad, but I think you're probably right.

They won't. And one of the reasons why they won't is because they're going to be shows, like, Asoka show is going to be much bigger. Yeah, sure. Mandalorian season. And we hope that all that's good. Oh, no, no, I'm sure it will be good.

I'm not saying that it won't be good. But what I'm saying is that this is kind of, this would steer Star Wars storytelling and in a completely new direction. and this direction isn't what they're trying to do. Now, what I hope is that this is a part of what they're trying to do. Because I don't think anybody would be asking for all of Star Wars to be Andor. You know, I don't think that that would be the thing.

I think that what people are asking for is a little bit more of this. And I just, I'm skeptical about how much they're prepared to do that. Like, Disney has a chokehold on our childhood. Like, you see the Disney thing. Like, I'm in a movie, and I like to keep talking about. telling you guys, I see that goddamn castle at the beginning of the thing. And I'm like, I want to go live there. I want to go into the castle. How about that? Little bird fly by the castle. You know what I mean? I want to be in that realm. It's a castle in the middle of a swamp.

You can't even get there. There's no roads. How do you get there? You got to get there through Disney magic. Tune it up again. Okay? So, and that makes us captive in a way. And that makes us that, in a way that's very specific and peculiar almost. And, you know, prisoners don't decide their lunch menu. You hope you get a good warden with some good food. And so for me, I'm looking at this show and I'm thinking all the things that they did, but I'm also seeing not, I'm seeing sort of a tepid reaction from the fan base, which makes me wonder how much they really want the things that they say that they want.

And I'm not scolding anyone. I'm just saying that and or should be on the, tip of everyone's tongue, the show is that good. You know, the show is that good. We should be talking about Andor the way we talked about the bear. Maybe we are. Maybe I'm just not seeing it. But the show is fantastic.

And it opens up so many amazing and interesting possibilities for Star Wars. This is the last thing I'll say before I take up too much oxygen. But I didn't know that I could be disinvested in, you know, a pre-return of the Jedi storyline. like this, like a fight against the empire storyline, going back to something that we've pretty much already covered. You know, that space after return, of course, because there's so much that we don't know, the space after return before Force Awakens,

and then obviously there's a whole frontier of stories, you know, that exists after the last Skywalker, but I didn't know that I could reinvest like this, and the show was able to make me do it. So, you know, I hope that they learned a lesson, and I hope that they'll empower more creatives that are daring like this, but they got toys to stuff. Van brought it up.

It's just the fact that, you know, not a lot of people are watching the show, right? It's an incredible, you know, achievement and television, but it's not bringing in the views. That's something that, you know, we talked about earlier in the run, but as far as we know, has not changed or improved. And so now you have to look at it, like, cool. And especially in the streaming era,

and Disney, you know, just they've been through it the last, couple of quarters, too. If anybody's been paying attention to that, they've been losing money, you know, like crazy. So you're not bringing in, if the show's not bringing in Disney Plus subscribers, you know what I'm saying? Like, is it something that's worth putting more money into?

Like, hey, we want more of this, despite the fact that nobody's subbing for Disney Plus for it. You know what I mean? And so it's a cautious, cautious thing to think about in terms of, yeah, this is great television, but will we see more of it? if it's not really generating revenue for the company.

You know, and that sucks to think about, but that's how these things go. But I really, really hope that they do look at this and go, yeah, this is what people want to see, you know, despite the fact that it's not, you know, registering on everyone's radar. I hope that, you know, somebody up there smart enough to be like, this is what we have to do.

Hopefully, you know, come gloating globe season, come Emmy season and wins awards, people start spinning it and then we can, you know, have the conversation like, oh, Andrew was always the best television show with 2020 and be like, yeah, Midnight Boys were there first. We knew it, you know, but ultimately, I hope that whoever is in charge, you know, Bob Agar just got back in business. Hopefully he's, you know, reading his daily email updates. It's like, ah, Andor is the show.

We got to make more content, Star Wars content like this. So, I mean, I want to be positive really quick because I think we do this thing with Andor where we're like, no one's watching Andor or not enough people are talking about Andor. But I think what's actually happening is like, like, look at the last year or so of Marvel. Marvel's underperformed. Like, yeah, people may have watched certain Marvel things more than they watch Andor. But in terms of like the bar they set, it's like, it's not like those shows have been cresting upwards in terms of popularity after like Wanda Vision and Loki and all these things.

Same thing with Star Wars. Star Wars can't even, like, Star Wars is having trouble just figuring out what they want to do with the movies. It's not like Obi-Wan was this runaway success where people were like, I'm re-watching Obi-Wan every day. So I think sometimes we have to re-contextualize when we talk about Andor what we want, where I'm like, it's not actually important to me whether Andor got to everybody. It's about is it speaking to the creators who are going to make these stories in the next five, 10, 15 years? Are they going to find something special in this? What I mean by that is like every story should not be a Tony Gilroy story, but every story should have the Tony Gilroy essence of,

we're going to take these characters seriously. We're going to take the writing seriously. We're going to believe that our audience is smart enough to go on this journey with us. Everything cannot be Avengers Endgame level big or Wanda Vision or Mandalorian. But I do think that you need this type of art in the ecosystem to be like, hey, just because this is a Marvel show, that's not an excuse to keep pumping them out at such a clip that they don't have the time

to really consider it. And I want to be clear, this isn't me saying like, oh, all of these creators are lesser than Tony Gilroy. No, I think it's like all these creators have probably, don't have the budget, time crunch. They're trying to do the best that they can. And maybe you get more Andors.

If Star Wars and Marvel in general are like, hey, let's be a little bit more considered. Let's like empower them. the creators. Yeah, I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense, but it makes even more sense if, like, if this was A-24 that was doing the shows. It's not. So it's, it's, so there's a line that they have to walk. And all those shows that we just, that we just mentioned, right? Miss Marvel, Miss Marvel, Moon Night, all of those, there's like a, this is weird obligation to watch those shows. Like you, you, if you want to be,

because as fans, there's all kinds of reasons why we're into this stuff. We're into this stuff because it spoke to us at a certain point in our lives. But we're also into this stuff the same way people are into the NBA. Like you watch Moon Night for the same reason that you watch the Spurs versus Oklahoma City on League Pass. It's because you like the game and you want to know who. who's good and you want to know what's going on, right? And even though the characters might be new, if you're going to be viable to the group that you are like a part of now,

being an NBA fan or being a fandom fan, you have to know what happened in some of these stories. And always existing outside of that in a lot of ways. And that's both good and bad. It's good because it allows the creators more freedom to tell whatever kind of story they want. want. It's bad because people don't feel like they have to watch it. There's nothing in it that makes people feel like they have, that it's super

consequential to the fandom, right? And because of that, you're seeing less conversation. So you said, what you said is that like people weren't talking about, people weren't talking about Obi-1 like that. They talked about Obi-1 much more than they talked about Andor. Oh, no, what I mean is is people are, it's after it. What I mean is like right now, like, they were talking about Obi-Wan way more. The viewership was. probably way more, but do you think people

are going to go back to Obi-Wan in terms of like, I want to go back and revisit the show. Like probably, probably not. Maybe not,

but what I'm saying is that what I'm saying is that, I mean, there are definitely parts of Obi-Wan that people are going to go back to. They're definitely, because there's all kinds of,

you know, Darth Vader's in the show. So there's all kinds of crazy stuff. But what I mean to say is like, Disney has to consider straight up how many people are watching this. They're in a war.

They're in a content war. and the bullets that they have in their content war are IP. They're in a content war billions and billions of dollars on the line with other people who don't have Obi-Wan Kenobi, who don't have Asoka, who don't have Darth Vader, who don't have any of those people. So for them, like part of what drives this, it's just got to be real. It's commerce, right? It's the fact.

And so what I really want from the fandom, and I'm not chastised in the fandom, I keep saying that, but I'm really not. What I want from the fandom is to realize, like, what's good for Star Wars? And Andor is good for Star Wars. It's good to expand Star Wars to a realm to where you get more Gilroy's, you get some of those other guys who are,

and the guys, when I say guys, I mean, women and men, who are taking these stories to new places. but they can't do that. This is why I was so, two minutes, when there was the same-stakes kiss in the Light Year movie, right? I was very adamant about the fact that we had to go see Light Year. Because if Light Year comes out and the movie bombs, people are going to say it's because of that kiss

and then they're not going to do it anymore. They're going to say, hey, we're going to stop this because people aren't, so what we have to do is when we see, something that works or something that's progressive or something that's that pushes the envelope we have to support it because that's the only way to signal to the company that is working for us and we don't know we see that they're doing some stuff joey

what were they doing when ando are putting in on all of these other different channels or something they put on ABC free form Hulu to get the word out so people exactly do that so people would watch it yeah right so they're trying to make sure they know they got this shit, but they also know that they're bumping their heads against people who just want to see Jedi's do magic. And I'm not coming down on those people. I'm just saying that something amazing just happened. Before we get off this, I actually want to ask you out, do you think that

there is equilibrium versus like the product is obviously stepped on where it's like those, the last couple movies were not good and like probably have done way more damage than then people may or may not watching Andor. I actually don't have the numbers. So is there like a, is there a place that we can get to where it's like, you get the dumb Jedi magic bullshit

that we're all like after. We're like, that was dumb and terrible. Why did they do this versus the more considered shit that like has a smaller fan base but energizes the other creators in the stable? Only I'm gonna say, I'm gonna let the men boys go.

I don't want to call the Jedi. Matt, I want to call it bullshit. I love Jedi. And I love the force. I love Jedi, but like being real. The last movies. Like those, look.

Come on. I feel you. You know what it was. Like, it was Jedi bullshit. Like, I don't know what to say. Don't even get me started on Rush Skywalker. We'll be here all day. That's what I'm saying, bro.

I can't really speak to what the balance needs to be or what that ratio of like serious storytelling to like fan servicey set piece stuff is supposed to be. But I remember that the only thing. that I really like struggled with whenever I was trying to sell somebody on Andor. The only pushback that I would get is like, oh, well, I don't really watch that many Star Wars things. And the only thing that I say is like you don't need to see anything. There isn't a single Jedi. There isn't a lightsaber. There isn't any like lore that you got to need. There isn't anything that you need to have already known just to see this. And the barrier

of entry with all of the like, you know, TVization of like these MCU movies and Star Wars now, Star Wars is TV, everything has like this sort of like baked in prerequisite, oh, what do I have need to have seen to see this now? Do I need to have known this to get this? And in this very, you know, rot time of like knowing everything and seeing everything, choice fatigue of all of these things that we can see, to know that like the big budget Star Wars IP thing that is kind of accessible to mostly adults and can, like, get anybody excited for it is the one without any Jedi in it, is the one without Luke Skywalker or Baby Yoda or a guy in a crazy helmet. It's not any of those things. And to sell somebody on, this is just a good show that you need to see, I feel like

the Star Wars of it all might hurt them. I feel like the Star Wars of it all is probably the thing that's, that is the only thing that's like making people a little apprehensive was they're like, Well, I don't know what Luke did in this time or when was this happening, like, to let somebody free of all of that and to just watch this amazing show, it's kind of a crazy time to just be like, yeah, watch this amazing thing. If this is on HBO, we'd all be talking about it differently. Let's be real. It's possible. It's possible. Wait, now I have to ask the question that we've been promising we'd ask.

Everybody needs to give their Star Wars top three of all time. So my Star Wars top three is revenge and the Siff. Just say it. Just say it. Come on, man. Take a serious. No, no. Empire.

Okay. Uh-huh. Say it. It's empire. I'm Damien right now. Say it. It's Revenge of the Sith. Oh.

I can't take you serious. And number three is Andor. Number four is rebels, man. Living your truth, man. Lever and his empire is Revenge of the Sith. And I don't care what y'all say. Fuck you guys. Is revenge of his empire?

Is revenge of the Sith? Sith, number three, is Andor. Number four is rebels. It is Empire number one, overall. Number two, and or number three, the Last Jedi. You like Revenge of the Sith, so sit down. Revenge of the Sith is better than Last Jedi. It definitely is, okay?

For me, I would go Empire One, Andor, two, man, three is tough. My heart, my head is telling me the first season of Mando, but my, my, my heart is telling me Clone Wars. Over Rebels? Man, there's some. Clone Wars. You put Clone Wars over Rebels? I think that late game.

Here's the thing. Clone Wars. I think the, here. And let me, let me, hear me out. Rebels is tighter, right? There's a three, like, you know, there's a three storeline. The whole thing. You know, the jump episodes.

thought it out to get the order. But the highs of Clone Wars are higher than Rebels. I feel you. I don't. I feel you. I don't agree. But I feel you. I think Rebels is.

I think Rebels is better. I think they should redo rebels and put B2 into it as a companion to Chopper. And it would be the most perfect show. Chopper would kill B2 immediately. But he would be his companion. He would bully B2 so bad. It would be his companion, I said. Nah.

His companion. You should be bad. You should do to AR5? Anyway, I'm going to go with Clone Wars. I think, like, all the Mandalora stuff, I love, you know, rest of peace, satin. And that last arc, you know, that last four episodes is just some of the best things I've seen. So I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with Clone Wars third. What about you, Steve?

What you got? Steve Empire. man, recency bias is tough. Shit the fuck of Recy bias. It's not like a Reddit post. I'd go Last Jedi and then I'd go Andor.

Ooh! He cooking with gas. Last Jedi. Last Jedi first? No, second. Second. Second. Yeah, no, this is,

this is there. I can't imagine something that had as much gravity other than Andor above those two. Like, like it's so, it feels so

consequential by just talking about the little people, the things that, the sentiment that gets a galaxy behind a cause. It's incredible. I don't think, like, I can't, I can't get, like, past the fact that, like, this was the most incredible show

we might have ever seen since doing this show. Oh, he's doing this podcast. What about Dark Tide One? Anyway. Jesus Christ. Good book. Listen. We're not fucking with the Thrawn trilogy. Come on.

No, nobody read the books. I didn't read the books. Aren't they not canon anymore? The legends, they say now. They keep saying that, but then they keep stealing ideas from them. I mean... You know what I'm saying? That's what they say.

Do y'all think the show is fucked now, though? Because we're like, we've seen Andor and... No. I don't want to go off the deep end, okay? And I'm still, like, when Mando comes, we're going to be right back on the same... No, no, I'm not talking about Mando or Asoka. I'm more so talking about... like the ones you're like I don't know.

The Midnight Boys? No, no, no. I'm talking about like the shows like we know Mando is going to be good. We know Asok is going to be good. There's just some shows from some other slated ones. Say their names. Say their names. Say their names. Chuck.

We're so positive Chuck for one more episode. All I'm saying is that that'll be you. For me, I go into shows to enjoy them. And so, and so. I mean, if you want me to talk. about shit. That's why we got to do a whole re-ranking of the midnight meter because everybody's like, this show is pretty good.

And then six months later, we're like, man, that show was off the bullshit. Because I try to, because like I try to go back and we watch these things and some of them, they just don't. Hey, all right. That's it's tough. All right, you guys, that is a wrap. Friday, the House of Arr will be giving you their deep dive on the season finale of Andor, which I know that

they liked as much as we did. Sunday, Mint Edition, would be giving you their thoughts on the Guardians of the Galaxy holiday special featuring Daniel Chin, D.C. With a special interview with James Gunn. Oh, fantastic. James Agun.

He is the man telling him to stay off Twitter. Now, and on Monday, it's a house of midnight talking about a movie of my youth in 1988 Fantasy Classic Willow in anticipation of the premiere of the Disney Plus series Willow, which is, I think, is going to be. amazing. I cannot wait to watch it. Credits. Our producer is

Steve Alman. Jomey Adirondon on social. Hashtag Jack and Jomey. That's really crazy that you said that. I got a lightsaber and then you went and I got a lightsaber van because you were the first person ever.

Yep. That's right. To get a lightsaber. I got one in the van was like, you know what? I should get one too. and then he went to Disneyland and couldn't get one. I didn't get a lightsaber until after I came from celebration and saw everybody with their lightsabers. So if anything, I'm jock and the fandom. You call me, you call me jock and fendom.

But when I'm telling you, what I'm not going to do, Jomey, how much of your wardrobe right now is just copies of what Arjuna has? I can guarantee you. 30%? Arjuna is not wearing two, panel sweatpants with Jurassic the Jurassic Park logo on it right now.

I bet he has been to rocking that shit like a year ago. A year ago. Jomey comes to Van's house looking like a full Arizona ice tea though. Like it's different levels. He ain't got what I got in my wallet. Damn, where's Arjuna? Arjuna got to come on and defend himself. Arjuna got to come on like Arjuna got to defend himself.

But it's a Joemy. Jomey is spicy as hell. We've all done it from time to time. Hashtags Jok and Chomey. And additional production from Arjuna the Trendseta, Ram Gapal. Charles, take us out.

Happy Thanksgiving, make sure to send love to all the homies. And shout out Mr. Steele, your iPhone case. Because he's Jock and Joe me, Jockey, Jock and Jock Jock Jock. I'll tell you one story that happened. Seriously, I've got to tell this story. I tell this story.

So, circa 2002, all right? I'm on a couch sleep. A friend of mine who I had an apartment with at that time had a girlfriend, and he had some company. He had a girlfriend, but he had some company. Okay? Got it. Niggas. Okay?

And so this was somebody that I knew that went to college with me. And so I'm in there, they're on the couch, watching belly. And they're on the couch watching belly And I'm in there because we were broke at the time So what I would do is just go buy a whole chicken And then I'd roast the chicken And eat off of it for like the whole week Right

So I'm in there roasting the chicken I got my little apron on I'm doing my whole thing She's laughing whatever And he would always do this thing Where they would watch a movie for a little while He would go And just give a head nod like this

And then they were going around I mean, that's the way what happened. He was just like, okay, hey, go on here. And so they were just going to go in the room. So I'm in there doing the chicken, you know, doing my whole thing, whatever. They go in the room. I go to sleep on the couch. They're in the room.

I don't know how much time passes because I'm asleep. But there's a knock on the door. Knock, knock, knock, knock. I wake up and I look at the door. Remember, I'm asleep. I'm looking at the door, and there's a boom-blown, knock, knock. I look on the door. and I'm like, and it's his girlfriend.

And I'm like, and I don't have my wits. So my brain isn't moving. So I go, he ain't here. I go, he ain't here. Now, normally she comes over to the house all the time. Normally is, hey, what's up? How you doing?

Come on in. Like, she'd come over to the house when he's not even there. I'm like, he ain't here. She literally put her hand on the side of my face. and moved it out of the way. Wow. And moved it out of the way. And so the problem with me as a person is,

as my wits are coming back to me, as my brain is decobwebbing, the hilarity of the situation is dawning on me, that this is about to be hysterical. Okay? So the look of my face, is like, oh. So she walked over there

and that looks like it was yesterday. She just flings the door open and he comes out. He got he got his du rag on and his shirt is off and the girl is in there

and I look at her. She looks at me. She looks at me like she's disappointed in me. I had nothing to do with this. You know what I mean? You could have been more defense. We can't give him a little bit more time. Hop on the window. There was nothing.

We're on the second floor. It's a dub. Like he's done. There's nothing that can be done. When I say there's nothing that can be done, there's nothing that can be done. Like, it's a dub. So the girl that was in the room goes, uh-uh, this is too much for me. I got to go.

And then she walks, she walks out. And then he's out there. He's standing there shirt off just looking down at the ground. Like, like, damn. And then she storms out. So we're sitting there. I never forget this. It's like, damn, bro, why'd you open the door?

I'm like, why'd I open the door? Nigel, what the fuck you want me to do? It's like, what the fuck? Is somebody knocking at the door, nigga? And then I see his hurt. I was not open the door. He's like, bro, why did you open the door? And he's like, hey man, I need you give me a ride over there.

It's like, what? He's like, look, I'm a tell her that this is just somebody from my church that needed some counseling. and that we was together in prayer. And then I'm like, and you, no way. I want you to listen. I promise you.

I'll never forget this. He goes, and I say, bro, you know, I got to put it on God, man. And I got to do it, bro. I got to put it on God. And I'm like,

no, you can't put it on God. He's like, bro, I got to put it on God. And then we came up with this workaround that he would say he was going to put it on God. is the end of the story this is something that we used

throughout our ancientness but when he said I put it on God he was actually putting it on God sham God Domobus The point guard They're playing their providence What the fuck is wrong with y'all

The point God They're playing that providence So you go out there And he would be like You know man I put that on God man I wouldn't do anything with that girl And then he would be like, I put it on God, dude.

And we always had this little joke. I put it on God. Sham God. Did it work? Yeah, it worked. They ended up getting married. Wait, what? Yeah.

City boys. Oh, man. Love her. Love him. Great. But that's a post-credit's for you guys. Okay. Feels like every profit claims real, pro,

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