The Ringer-Verse - 'Andor' Episode 6 Instant Reactions, and Big MCU Delays | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

The Midnight Boys return to take the 40 million and run, as well as give their reactions to the latest episode of 'Andor' (05:34). They also break down what might make this the best episode of the season so far (28:20). Later, they discuss the newly delayed slate of Marvel films due to 'Blade' searching for a new director (64:03). Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Yossi Salick, and I'm the host of Bansplain, a show where we explain cult bands and iconic artists by going deep into their histories and discographies. We're back with a brand new season at our brand new home, the Ringer podcast network, tackling a whole new batch of artists, from grunge gods to power pop pioneers to new metal legends and many, many more. Listen to new episodes every Thursday, only on Spotify. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matter. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required.

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This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book-to-screen favorites you've already read twice.

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Watch only on Prime. Welcome into the Ringiverse. This is, of course, the ringer's nexus podcast feed for all things fandom we are coog baby chup 24th character closer a.k a.k.a. the brunch haughty we are van old man decrepit no hairline he of the receding hairline old man van we are do you want me the explainer whoa whoa whoa whoa he who is aging gracefully like fine wine then yeah shut the fuck up oh we like like like like like like like like We are Jomi, the explainer.

Adirond, you've got questions, these are good answers. We are, Steve, the architect, almond. And together, we are known as of the midnight boys. I'll be ready to get you. Now, we've been bullied on this podcast early this morning.

It's early. It's early for us. Not so early for Charles, but we've been bullied. Jomi, Jomey straight up came out and bullied us. Jome? Jome?

I don't think that's true. Stop. You're breaking the band up. Charles, I'm not giving you any credit or any shine for how you've been acting. Because you're going to find yourself in an Eddie Kane type of five heartbeat situation. You're going to find nights like this I wish the midnight. You're going to find yourself there. That's okay.

It's not about you, Otis. Ain't nobody coming to see you Ain't nobody coming to see you Otis Hey nobody coming to see you Otis But Jomey wants to make sure that we Jomey whose job is socials Social producer wants to make sure that we mentioned that you can follow the ring of verse

socials on Insta, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok Yeah and just to let everybody know You guys didn't want to do a TikTok with me on Sunday Yeah I didn't want to do a TikTok Jomey, we're not at work, bro. Joe, listen, what do you mean?

I'm always at work. I'm not, it's not a- stop for me, baby. It stops for me, and it stops for me when we're watching House of the Dragon and eating wings. What type of wings y'all have? We had wing stop.

Not wing stop. We had Hot Wings Cafe, Best Wing Place in L.A. Lemon pepper, classic. Lemon pepper, classic, hot, okay. Bro. Oh, Grammy. Thank you. Thursday, Ben Lindberg, Steve and Jomey team up to talk about the season finale of Shehawk.

Oh, Min Edition and Ben Lindberg. I can't wait. Are you guys looking forward to the season finale of Shehawk? It's pretty interesting. Hell yeah. She's mad. I'm super duper excited. Yeah, good show. Friday, the House of R will be diving deep into the next episode of Rings of Power. Rings of No Bus is the name of the show. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do you. that van.

Why y'all get mad when I point out obvious shit that people aren't talking about rings of power? They are talking about rings of power. You're just not listening. Yeah, maybe you're not in the rings of power circle. House of the Dragon kicked rings of power right out of the fantasy high school. Why do you got to pit two bad bitches

against each other then? Like, gross. I'm saying one is bad and one is 2 a.m. in the club. All right. Saturday, Charles and Justice Charity Justin?

Who? Who's Justice Charity? Justin. Saturday, Charles and Justin Charity, sit down to discuss Chainsaw Man.

What the fuck is Chainsaw Man? Who! The best show of the year! Chainsaw Man, let's go. What is chainsaw?

What is that? I don't know what that. I see, I'm not even joking. What is chainsaw, man? I don't know what that is. It's one of the most exciting biggest anime releases of the year. And it is what it sounds like.

It is about a boy whose superpower is, yes, a chainsaw for a head. Chainsaw man. For a head? Yeah, his head is a chainsaw. His head is a chainsaw? Yeah, and his arms. And that's how he like fights.

All right, chainsaw man. This Sunday Talk the Thrones is back again. It's Chris Ryan Malinjo, give you their instant reactions to House of the Dragon right after the show is done. Hopefully, Jomey and Steve will be over to the house over again. With a lot of spite.

We had first things first and a baili or thirst. We had a lot of fun this past Sunday. On today's show, we're giving our reactions and thoughts to the sixth episode of

Andor. Wow. Woo! We're ready to talk about it. But before we do that, we have to make sure that we don't spoil anything for you guys that came to a podcast to be spoiled.

Go ahead, Steve. We're getting ready to Talk about Cassian Ander. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. To begin our reactions, as always, Chuck Wagon is going to give us the need to know with the Midnight Manifest telling you everything about this particular episode of Andor. Charles, take it over.

And this is the Midnight Manifest for Andor episode six, titled The I, directed by Susanna White, written by Dan Gilroy. We start with Nemek, who tells Cassian he can't sleep and reveals that he wrote a chapter in his manifesto called The Role of Mercenaries in the Galactic Struggle for Freedom based on Cassian. Cassian tells a young rebel that the empire doesn't have to learn because they don't care about him, but it sure is a Nemec that he will have the energy once the commotion starts. Commandant Jayholt gives a racist speech about the Aldanis to Colonel Pedigar, explaining the present and future ways they'll subjectate the people. Cassian, Nemecke's skiing interriman

begin the operation by disguising themselves as imperial officers, while Vell and Sinta jam the Empire's communications. Everything goes off without a hitch as to capture the base. Jayhold and his family, but when an officer hears part of their communications, the team races against the clock to load up the money from the vault before they are overrun. A shootout occurs which kills Terraman and Gorn. Cassian flies the ship through the eye. Only Vell, Skeen, and an internemic aboard. Skeen convinces Cassian to find a doctor.

for the Diagnemic. Fortunately, as a young philosopher dies on the surgery table, Skeen tries to partner up with Cassian to steal the 80 million credits. Cassian shoots Skeen, tells Vell what happened, leaves the planet with the credits he was originally promised. But before he does, Bell gives Cassian Nemek's manifesto because it was his dying wish that the manifesto was passed on to him. And that has been the Midnight Manifest for episode six of Andor.

It was amazing. I feel like I know everything. Now it's time to get into the getting to. Charles, were your first impressions of this episode? I mean, I sound like a broken record, but this third episode blew me away. And I think that this episode blew me away. And I think something interesting that Tony Gilroy is doing is he is really playing with the structure of high fantasy, sci-fi nerd shows in a way that I don't think anybody. has ever done before. What I mean by that is, you know, you hear all of these things about like

She-Hulk where people are like, where's Daredevil, where's Daredevil? It's the same thing with a Hawkeye. People are waiting for Kingpin. I think for so many years, we've been inundated with something like the MCU, which was great to a point, but we're always waiting for what's next. So sometimes we don't pay as much attention to like what's happening in front of us. And what I love about Tony Gilroy is he's doing what every great creator does. He's teaching us how to watch the show. the first episode is going to be you meeting these characters. You're like, who are these people? The second character, the second is like you're learning to love them.

You're learning about what makes them tick. So by the third episode, when the spectacle happens, when the heist happens, when people are running away, when people are shooting guns, all of that action means something. You care about these characters to such an extent. When they die, when they fail, when they succeed, it just hits you so much harder. And that's what I love.

I think we've been seeing so many shows that are like first episode, everything happens, last episode, everything happens. And in the middle, we're kind of like, what's, what are we supposed to care about? And I love that and or is like, no, these three episodes, it's act one, act two, act three. But the time you get to act three, we're going to care about everything that's on screen. Even if it's so much of it is just action. And that's what I really, really fell in love with this episode. There's a magic to the show that I think is just really,

really special. We spent the end of the last episode talking about, man, what could you, what do we think is going to happen? And even though we felt like we had a really good idea, I still wasn't prepared for everything that I saw and everything that happened in this episode. I mean, just even forget like the plot and, you know, everything that happened. Just the spectacle of it all. And sin, you know, in my, in my, in my, house, watching on my TV, and seeing the eye for the first time. I'm just seeing the whole valley in the sky. And just being so sucked into that moment and not even thinking about what was going

on inside the barracks, not what was going on with our main character, just looking in like, wow, this is special. This is incredible. This is beautiful. that's something that I haven't felt in Star Wars for a minute and Tony Gourroy is delivering on all fronts and we're truly witnessing some excellent, excellent television right now.

And I'm truly blessed to be able to sit down on Wednesdays and watch it. That's how I feel. God damn, Jomey. Jomey, you bought to join the Rebel Alliance? That was moving as hell. Jomi just like, I don't know if we've ever had somebody on this show say that they're blessed to watch a show. Jesus Christ, Jomey got me ready to suit up. Where's my goddamn lightsaber at?

Yeah. Yeah. Jomey, we might have to grab the sabers since Steve and fucking Charles are non-saber owners. You got to lock in. This is, the show is the bravest thing that Star Wars has ever done. and everything that came from this episode is probably the exact reason why I've been like personally

begging Star Wars to be for so, so, so long. The amount of humanity and like the amount of stakes and consequence that come from an imperial soldier just like sitting down on the job and then hearing a door open and then he stands up, the amount of things that are so intimate and so like personable and, also like incredibly, incredibly moving for just the three episodes that we've had with these characters and then to have this kind of culmination of tension be released in an incredibly executed heist.

I agree entirely with Jomey. It's a privilege to watch this. I'm so happy that we get to have this in Star Wars because it's never been seen before. And I hope it's a great indicator of what's to come next. When I was seven years old, I had a dream. Oh, right. Okay, I'm just joking. I'm just joking.

Yeah. Obviously, I loved the episode. I thought it was fantastic. It actually exceeded my expectations for what I thought the highest was going to be and what the op was going to be. I think you saw the entire spectrum of what a situation like that is. You saw second thoughts. You saw triumphs. You saw losses.

You saw unexpected casualties in ways. You also saw the chaos that can happen when people who are so sure that they're in control aren't in control anymore. At one point, I stepped back and I watched it, right? And I saw that there were literally four people that were armed that had literally taken over. an entire group of imperial troops. And that's because those imperial troops were uninitiated into chaos. They knew they were the big dogs.

There's actually a scene where one of the fat cat imperials is actually a fat cat. He doesn't even realize how much weight he's gained. His shit doesn't fit anymore. Like everything about the empire that's going to make them fall is able to be articulated,

not through telling us, but through showing us, that's story. All of these, like, they think that we come to Star Wars for lightsabers flashing around. We never have. We've come for who's swinging the lightsaber. Story.

And after a while, with anything, right, the more digestible parts of your narrative, the more digestible parts of your, the more pop-culture parts of your, the more pop-cultory parts of your lore become the things that you have to sell, right? Because stories become toys and then toys become stories.

That's the way it goes for everything. It's just what happens when consumerism gets to it, right? At first, the story becomes about, the story makes a toy, and then the story becomes about selling the toy. You're not going to sell no toys for Mandor. This is not about that. It's about these people.

It's about their fight. It's about what they're going through. It's about the stakes. It's about the relationships. Something I was feeling when I was watching Andor is this seems like the first Star Wars property in a while that is not about another Star Wars thing. And what I mean about it is like think about the sequel trilogy, of Force Awakens or Last Jedi. They're about other Star Wars movies. The Mandalorian is amazing.

I love that. But like Baby Yoda, part of that's like nostalgia. of how we feel about these things. So much of Star Wars is like about other things is about kind of retelling the story or retelling a trilogy in a new way. And like I wonder, when you're watching Andor, does it feel weird because it feels so new?

It doesn't feel like it's harkening back to something we've already seen. It seems like it's like, oh, right, this is, we're telling you a story that isn't like a play on another trilogy or something that's happened before. This is all new track. Interesting. I agree with you.

I think that the Mandalorian is different in that sense. I guess Grogu kind of brings you back. But it has Bukin Asoka, which I love, but it is, it's a part of a thing where with Andor, I don't remember a Star Wars series or a Star Wars movie being so boldly like, hey, we're not going to do little throwaway lines that are like hearkening back to something someone other said. Like there's not going to be some Easter egg everything. five minutes. It's like, no, this is the story that we want to tell right now.

Yeah, I agree. I think we've talked about this at length, and I think that it's because the creators here don't have, they don't have a strong connection to the source material, which was a prerequisite for Star Wars. I've been wanting to tell stories in this galaxy since I first went to the drive-in movie theater in El Paso, Texas. I was playing with toys when I was fine. And which is great, which, by the way, it sounds like we're being such dicks right now. it makes you want to have moments that are akin to Luke destroying the Death Star. It makes you want to have moments that are akin to throwing Palpatine down the shaft or Han being in prison and the Carbonite.

It makes you want to have moments that are related to that instead of new moments that have their own DNA that are in the same universe. This feels totally new and totally different. It doesn't even like this entire episode of television, it doesn't feel like a Star Wars show. And I don't know, it'll be interesting to see how long, it doesn't to me. It doesn't feel like a Star Wars show. It feels like a show about a struggle set in the Star Wars universe to me. I'll say that a riff on kind of what my first take of this was is that like nothing that makes this show or very little about what makes this show great is the fact that it takes place in Star Wars.

Everything that makes the show great is about the people that we're dealing with and the stakes that are to the things. there. And you could put that in anything. You could put that in a Western. You could put that in any genre film that you've seen from here on now. But like the fact that Star Wars has picked this up, that it's about all of these people and all of these ideas that have always surrounded Star Wars, but never really intimately looked at. That's what I think makes this show great. That's what has like always been stunning to me. And then when we see like at the end, this grand spectacle of like the eye and when they're coming out from that cresting hill and like all of these comets are shooting across them.

Like, that's like the Star Wars that we're looking at. And that's like seeing all of these tie fighters explode. That's like the big grand substantive, like, wow, this is the Star Wars of it all. But like everything that led up to that was beautiful. And it was just about people talking in rooms and people yelling about the things that they believe in. And you know what? I think that Star Wars has had a fear of non-spectacle. Yeah.

Because everything is like, for example, you guys weren't outside when, when Phantom Minus came out. But we, we, for a lot of people that saw Phantom Minutes, like we came away being like, that wasn't the greatest, but we still, like, at least for some of my friends, we still got our spectacle. We got the duel of the fates. And it was like, yeah, the movie was kind of boring and poorly paced in spots, but that fight at the end.

And so there's always something that kind of, that Star Wars needs, it needs to give us the big huge space battles because that's why we're here. But they've never been brave enough to give us an intimate story to where it feels like these conflicts are tangential to it.

And I think that's what Andor is doing. Well, I think, like, we can't forget that rebels exist. I think there's a certain, there's a certain level of demarcation, though. between the two shows where, like, you know, at least when I was watching Rebels, you know, I figured, and this, and this is true until it isn't, oh, they're going to be all right. Everybody's going to be okay. You know, I wasn't, like, too terribly worried about the members of the ghosts, you know.

And, you know, it's not super adult. Well, I mean, it's not, it's made four kids for adults to enjoy as well, but Andor is just, it's just different. Like, I, we came in, dinging, like, yeah, we're going to see people get murked tonight. Like, that's just what it is. You know, people that we've spent, you know, two hours previously getting to know and getting to care for, like, ah, they're going to die in gruesome ways tonight, you know. Jomi, what was the biggest standout from the episode to you? Oh, man, it had to be, honestly, like, the eye, like, seeing, like, there's the scene,

there are the scenes where they're doing the heist and they're cutting it with the people, you know, just watching and celebrating outside. and you're going back and forth. And the people outside don't realize like, hey, man, there's some life-changing-ish happening, like 100 yards behind you. Like, you can't even contemplate. They're out there enjoying, looking, out there going nuts.

And then, like I mentioned in the beginning, that scene with just all the comments coming through. Yeah, you just forget that like, Jomey is so in love with Andor. Duh. Like, look at Jomey. If you guys can watch it, look at Jomi's face. Jomi loves it.

Rarely have I heard like a show like hype up a moment in its own canon to actually live up to it. Because like for two straight episodes, they're like, man, this I think it's crazy. Like you can't wait to see it. Everybody wants to see it. Like, oh man, this is going to be great. And sure enough, like that was fucking incredible. I'm looking at it. I'm like, oh.

my gosh, what I would give to be on that planet. It's like seeing, it's like seeing Aurora Realis for the same first time. That's how it's pronounced. You know, the Northern Lights. Just like, wow, this is incredible. You know what I mean? And then to cut back in like, oh, yeah, they've got to get out of this vault right now because Kizmi's got like people coming down.

They're going to die. You know, like it's just incredible filmmaking. The beauty and the madness, like the weekend. Chuck, what about you? is like your your biggest standout from the episode. Oh, I think we're going to talk more about it, but it broke my heart.

Richie in space, brach. Richie, the fucking Judas. Like, because here's the thing. To Jomi's point, I love the spectacle.

Every part, I wish I could say every part of this, this episode is my favorite. But for a show to surprise me. And like, because I didn't realize this was what's going to happen. Because skiing a couple minutes before, it's just like,

he's the one that's adamant. He's the one that's adamant. we gotta save Nemek, we gotta save Nemek. And for my man, for it all to be just a ploy so he can get away with the credits, that shit broke my heart. Like I was just like, not fucking Richie. I don't even have a brother.

I don't even have, that was all the lie. That's good storytelling. That's great. I'm like, nah, you, Richie, not you, cousin. Come on, bro, I believed in you. Like, dog, that shit hurt my soul. That's my standout part of the episode as well.

When he turns. Because I don't know. Was this his plan all along? Or did he get in front of that money and just decide, yo, I got 80 million? I think it was probably a little bit of column A, column B. like he probably he's in that he's in this for himself clearly the brother was a lie his origin story was a lie maybe he didn't think that the job was going to go entirely as planned maybe he didn't think that everything was going to work maybe he was waiting for his one moment whatever moment that

was going to be even if it even if it was this job or not like he would step over somebody to do it and like there were just the right amount of people at the end of a job he knew how to fly the ship he knew where to hang like hold out for a couple of weeks Like, that's just how it worked out. And let me tell you something that makes Cassian Cassian. How many times do we see heroes in these stories that we love, tie that guy up, put a gag in this neck and go, I'm so disappointed in you. Yeah. Cassian knew that guy's got to go.

The second when he was like, no, the second he sat up and like did this. Uh-huh. And I was like, yep, he's got it. Like that guy, that guy's got to die. I mean, honestly, I was like, as soon as she started talking and I was like, I don't see a situation where a scheme like walks away. And then as soon as he said, like, what's like, what about your brother? The orchards?

I didn't know, brother. I was like, oh, wow, you're done. You're finished. Goodbye. He's out. To Van's point, I think what's genius about that turn is that you start realizing that, oh, the reason he was mad at Cassian the whole time, the reason he was picking on him, the reason he wants to sew to so dissension, is because he saw himself in Cassie. He's like, the only motherfucker who can fuck this up is you.

Like, if I get a chance, you, like, we come from the same. We come from the mud. He's either going to be the one that helps him and gets him out, or it's the one that ruins it for him. And he just rolled the debt, and he flipped the coin. I don't know if he was planning this the entire time, but I do think that he smelled his own and he's like, if there's anyone to see this point who's going to stop me, it's Cassian.

So I need to do my best job to make everybody look at Cassian so they're not looking at me. Because the whole time he's overplaying how patriotic he is, how much he's down for the cause. And I'm just like, damn, I should have known it from the start. The motherfucker who's talking the most got the most to hide. Do you think that changed when he realized Cassian was a mercenary? And when he realized Cassian was a mercenary, does he think, huh, I couldn't make this guy the outcast? I might not be able to kill him, but maybe I can buy him. Maybe now that I know that money is his motivation for being here,

if he's here for 200,000 credits, then he'll definitely do what I need him to do. We can definitely shake something for 40 million credits. I definitely think that that is a lot of what his thought process was. The greatest line, I think, from this episode was 40 million is enough to make me forget you forever. Like, that's fucking great. 40 million credits, baby. What do you buy with credits in the Star Wars universe?

You buy land. You buy, what do you buy? That's a great ship. That's a great ship. Oh, you go to Jabba's. You know, you throw a little, you make it rain. You think I'm fucking with Jabba the Hut if I got 40 million credits? No, you're still not.

You're not. You're not. I'm staying far, far away. See how this is how I know Steve ain't got no street smart. Steve just made 40 million credits. And where is he going? You're going to top of Jabba the Hut? I'm going to the markets, baby.

Wait, can I ask this? How do you make it rain in the Star Wars universe? Because, like, if you throw the credits at strippers, it's going to hurt. Like, that shit is, like, metal. Well, when you're throwing, when you're making it rain, you don't necessarily have to throw the money on the girl. You can just throw it on the stage. You're throwing it up and it's showering.

That would hurt. It's going to hit somebody in the eye. It's going to be a whole bunch of strippers in the Star Wars universe with patches over their eyes. Is it like, they're going to get hit the eye with Christ? You know? Welcome to the stage. Amund.

Okay. Targaryen? Because he's got a patch over the eye, Steve. God damn it. I know. I hate that, Mom. Amen, it sucks. He's so bad.

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New sweetgreen wraps hit different. Order now at order. Dot sweetgreen.com. All right, obviously this is the best episode of Vandor, right? So far, yes. So far. Like,

the last one was pretty fucking good to. We're only six in. Yeah. Only six. Only six. Think about this. Think about how Andor is challenging everything. In all of the other shows, like, this would be the end of the show.

Yeah, this would be the finale. For any other show we've seen, this is the season finale. Obviously, they gave us a three-episode premiere, or was it a two-episode premiere? I can't remember. Three-episode premiere. So we've only been, we're only three weeks in. But think about how much story has gone into it. We've got so much story left.

There's still so many more questions about what. great. What's going to happen next here. All right. Let's talk about the heist real quick. The ice was cool. Amazing. Amazing.

I love the heist. Vell got some cold feet, man. For like a second. For like a second. That's what I knew. I was just like, Val, like I'm like, you can't. You got it. Like, Sinta's a G.

She's just like, yo. Like, pull your pants up and let's go. Look, but that's the realism of it, though, right? No, that is there. No, I totally agree. Yeah, yeah. Like, in that moment, you're like, hey, man, we can walk away right now. We can all go back to our lives.

You know what I'm saying? Not all great, but still. And she is like seasoned up. Sometimes it's been like, hey, man, what are we here for? Let's go. Let's get it. But even before that, we learned the line that Sintz's family was killed by Stormtroopers. So it makes so much sense that she's like, if we die, we die.

Come on, we got to go. It makes so much, because, like, the genius thing that these three episodes did is when you meet Sinta, they almost center her as, like, the attractive one in the group, the healer, the one that doesn't really, we even, I think everybody was just kind of like, oh, okay, she's not maybe the one that is rah, rah, rah. Not exactly nerves of steel kind of a thing, yeah. You're like, oh, no, you are actually what gives Vell so much of her courage. you're actually the backbone of this entire thing, which I'm just like, oh shit, that is great writing because it reveals through the three episodes everything that even I think Cassian thought of Sinta is wrong.

She's not some damsel in distress. She's like, nah, like, I'm about ready to get busy. Vell, I got to be honest with you. Vell, having second thoughts about jumping off that high-ass ledge, I get it, man. She has to, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, I always wondered that. I wonder that about Batman. Like, Batman just scared of bats,

jumping off of a building, not a big deal. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, I always wanted that. Like, it's human. Like, she's, look, yo, is this silent, man? Because we're about to suspend, repel all the way down that whole deal. I think it was also important.

There's also something I want to point out. We have seen in live action Star Wars a couple of different empire dissenters. Two stormtroopers have turned. And then we got a lieutenant And there was one lady that was in Obiwan

But let's keep her out of it for a second All three of these guys Turn their back on the empire Two Stormtroopers Black men What's going on in the Empire guys? Finn X Storm Trooper Out

X Storm Trooper here Out You got the lieutenant going out What's going on? What they serve in a mess hall. I have an answer for this. Let me hear it. All right. So what does J. Hold say, the portly imperial? My man was talking reckless in the beginning of the episode. He said the Donnies, they're a simple people. They breed a sad

combination of traits that make them particularly vulnerable to manipulation. On a practical level, they have a difficulty holding multiple ideas simultaneously. You've been talking about this for a while, how the empire what really takes them down is how racist they are. Bro, if I'm Finn, if I'm these black people and I get, like, I join this shit, you know, Kanye told you to join the empire. You get there, you're like, God damn,

like, these motherfuckers racist is out. Like, I'm not staying around here. Not one black moth didn't see one. Wouldn't let Thron even come up there and be it because they're against his blue skin. Boy, that's what I'm saying. That's what it is. Jormie, talk your shit.

I mean, listen, if, you know, they won't let, like you said, they won't let the homie, not really the homie, but they won't let Admiral Thron. Be honest. Be honest. Be honest. Be honest. You like Thron. That's good, man. He's scared.

Like, be honest. You got to. He's doing this thing. Be honest. You like throwing. He would do the thing. Thron be spitting. He's, he's like.

He's been. Like, here's a thing. He's been. He'll be. He'll be spin. Of all the people, you don't want to get. Thron is cool, bro. You like Throne.

Yeah. If we can say Darth Vader's cool, we could say Thrawn's cool. Darth Vader not that cool. He's scary. He's not cool. No, he's, he's a badass. I'm not trying to fucking hang out. I'm not, no.

You choke you out of nowhere. Sure. You die. Like, you can't, like, Thrawn, throwing cool. The Throne's a great hang is what you're saying. Yeah, well, exactly. Throne's a smart guy. And they were like, nah, bro, you got blue skin.

Because he's an alien, right? imagine being like imagine being black that's got to be that's got to be crazy that's got to be nuts here's the thing they were talking wild about the aldonis and the aldonis are white people think about how the empire's talking about black people behind their back who it's shit man it's got to be foul sounded like decaprio and jango on chain like a quentin tarantino script Jesus Christ kicks off, is there one point that you think that

the crew would fail? Nah, man. At one moment, there were moments, I think another mark of a great show is I really wasn't sure that they would pull it off. I genuinely thought that they would fail. I truly thought that this would go. I mean, like, really south. Did they succeed? like, I think they succeeded

largely in that, like, they got away, they definitely put some, they didn't get all the credits, but they got a lot of the credits. But I do think that what I am trying to figure out, do you think that Skeen saw the level of sacrifice that went into this?

How many people had to die? How many people, like, just for them to leave with 80 million credits? And he's just like, yo, I can't do this. Like, it's too high. Even I think Cassian has that feeling. Are you litigating right now whether or not the job was worth it? Yeah, at least for the players involved. I think for the rebellion, it's worth it.

But if I'm Cassian, if I'm skiing, I'm like, bro, all of this for 80 million credits, you have to think about how long they were on that planet, how much they sacrificed, how much they had to learn? And even then, what, how many people walk away, two? Three? Wascinta? Three? Three?

That's a heavy price to pay. The stakes are at an all-time high. Remember, this is not destroying the Death Star. This is inconveniencing the empire. Just inconvenience. You know what I mean? So I can see what you're saying, but this is why when the rebellion comes, we leaving you.

All right. When we rebel, with me, Steve and Jomey, lead the rebellion, we leave in you. Because you can't think like that. In all seriousness, at some point, I think this story is interrogating when people stop being people and start being weapons.

Because when you're in a rebellion, like those people, they're not people. their weapons. And Nemick even says so. Nemick, like, he adapts his philosophy to be like, okay, I've been thinking about you, Cassian, I've been thinking about, or Clem at the time, but he's like, you know, I used to be opposed to this kind of thing,

but, you know, you're effectively a tool and we need to use tools. And the empire doesn't have any boundaries. Neither should we. And we need to teach them that. And what does Cassian say? He's like, you're not going to teach these people anything. Right. There isn't going to be peace treaties.

There's not going to be people, you know, coming across an aisle at the end of some great war to like, you know, merge together in peace. Like, this needs to be extinguished if you're going to get what you want. And so for, and looking at that, that's the question that in any rebellion you have to ask yourself is, are you willing to leave your humanity at the door? That's why building governments is not quite what rebels are good at. I mean, there were a group of rebels that were slave owners back in the day that built a pretty function government, whatever, whatever.

But a lot of times when rebels take over, they don't build great governments because they've had to sacrifice the thing that would make you, the empathy and a systemic understanding, you've been fighting for so long that that's all you know how to do. And this right here tells you that Cassian's fate can only go one way. Because once he buys in, there's no way out of it. on the other side. It's like it's high stakes mission after high stakes mission. And at some point, the game of Russian roulette, you're going to get the bullet.

You know what I mean? And that's the nature of this type of rebellion. And I don't think they did this on purpose, but to your point, the genius of Star Wars is that what happens in the original trilogy after the rebels win, the first order comes. Because to your point, rebels are very, very. good at rebelling. They're very good at, like, attacking a system. But when it comes time to, like, make a functioning government that is strong and can, like, survive all of this stuff, it's like, I guess the Star Wars universe has taught us, like, we're on an endless cycle of, like,

Empire rebels, Empire rebels, even if they go by a different name. I think the Jedi are stuck on that same cycle of, like, they fall, they rise, they fall, they rise, which I think is kind of, the heartbeat of this entire franchise. The eye itself. I didn't know what to expect, but it still exceeded my expectations. Again, it's like, we actually lived up to the hype,

but it was incredible. Jomi, listen, you know, look, to check this out. People have been like, Jummy, man, you say,

you say things are cinema too much, right? See, say it's special too much. Who says that? Guys, Joe. Listen, I got to, listen, me.

Now, I got to check the face. group, man, I got to do my job, you know what I'm saying? Here's the thing, guys. That scene right there, that shot right there, that's cinema. That's real cinema. I don't know what I don't know what I'll tell you. I don't know what to tell you. It's special.

No, but I mean, like, think about it. To fans' point, I didn't know what to expect. I thought honestly we'd get like a more like circular thing. But we see it in the first part of the episode, like the, they're not in comments. They describe it at the previous episode, but like, They start shooting across the sky. Like, oh, it's starting. They're like, oh, it's like a meteor shower.

Like, there's going to be a whole bunch of, you know, things. But the colors, the grandeur, you know, just the sheer, the sheer amount, the sheer size. And then on the escape, they take you through the madness, right? And even they're having problems getting through it. But the Thai fighters are struggling, you know. just to avoid all the, all the debris and all the, all the nonsense that's in it.

The eye was spectacular. I honestly don't know how they'll top that in terms of visuals across this, the show. I don't know what else they could show me that I'm looking and look and be like, wow, that that's crazy. And this is only what, halfway through the season? Man.

I mean, the other thing I loved about that moment is that Nevick says in the previous episode, we've grown relevant on Imperial Tech and made ourselves vulnerable. And what makes that chase during the eye so genius is that think about why the Empire

keeps failing throughout this entire episode. They keep relying on all of this tech that doesn't mean anything with the eye there. And the only reason that they escape is because Nemek uses the Star Path and he's doing it just by feet like he's just so good at it. Think about when they jam all of the systems. For so long,

know what to do. They've gotten so fat and so dumb. And I love how it's going back to the previous episode. The only reason the rebels survive is because they are using things that the empire has forgotten how to use. They're using their wits. They're using technology that is like not as advanced. That is such a genius thing to tie this all together. It's always that way. They all like good rebellions break you down with fundamentals with technology that you've forgotten. It's true. It's true. With weapon systems you've forgotten, with technology you've forgotten, with methods that you've forgotten, all of that stuff. Like, you're lining up to shoot and they're, you're lining up to shooting lines and doing all of that, and they're doing guerrilla warfare with just, they get back to basics. And most times it's out of necessity because they don't have the money for the latest technology.

So what they do is use the same thing that have been working for people for thousands of thousands and thousands of years. The problem is you've forgotten how to do that because you're fat and lazy racist empire. You're talking about the rebels like their 04 Argentina at the Olympics, bro. I'm going to lie, Van, are you, do you coach a basketball team in your off time telling them get back to the fundamentals, guys? That's how we're going to win. Let me tell you what I did. Let me tell you what I did with my basketball. team and I used to coach.

Number one, I used to name the plays after famous black people so that they would know who these plays were. So I would literally be on the court. I'd be like know who these people were. I'd be like, run Marcus Garvey. Marcus Garvey. Marcus Garvey. All right, Mega Everest. Fainty Lou Hammer. People would be like, what the hell?

Be like, Fainty Lou Hamer. Fainty Lou Hamer. Fainty Lou Hamer. Have we run that? But I would keep different stats. I would keep stats about closeouts. I would keep your I would keep stats about good files. You know what I mean? Like, I would keep different stats.

I would keep effort stats. I didn't even care how much you scored. How old was this basketball team? Oh, they were maybe like 11. 10, 11. You're screaming. Run to Marcus Garvey. Oh.

And then they just all stopped like, huh? All right, last question. What was their record? Don't lie. The first year, we were bad. What's bad? What's bad? The first year, we only won one league game.

The first year. The second year? Once they got the plays down? Oh. I was coming to that bitch. We went undefeated. Wait, for real? Yeah, we won the whole thing.

Like, the second year, I mean, a couple of our players grew a little bit, and we added a couple players to the team because I'll go get our anger. You know what I'm saying? But with the second year, we were undefeated. We grew a little bit. We got tougher. He was out there running circles. All black team, all white league, doing our thing, man.

But fundamentals is very important. We were leading the rebellion. Kids are laughing as we had to have good sneakers. So we have to learn how to do is take our sneakers with no tread on them and kick you in your ass with them. So we had to learn how to do. Coach Carter. Coach Carter.

Coach Lathan, I got so full of myself. I started coming to the games dressed up. You know what I mean? A full suit. Brough, this was one of the weirdest times in my life. How old were you? I was like 28, 29, something. like that.

I started coming to the games, like, dressed up, having conversations with the parents. Like, hey, look, if your boy really wants to learn the game, she should come over to Coach Vang. Were you jawing at the ref? Were you like, it's not my style. I'm like, it's not my style. Oh, please. That's not, it's not my style. That's such a fucking lie, bro.

It's not my sad. That's such a lie. That's not true. That's not true. I'm a charmer. I'm a charmer. I'm a, this is the kind of guy I am. I'm a time out.

Hey, come here. One for my guys now, huh? One for my guys. Very diplomatic. Very diplomatic. Hey, I get it. I get it. I saw it.

Just don't forget about us. I know we ain't supposed to be here. Don't forget about us. One for my guys. No, don't hit him with that. I know we ain't supposed to be here. I know nobody expects us to be here. It's one for my guys, all right?

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Poor guy. They stopped for Nimick, and it was a good point. plot device for casting the scheme to have the conversation that they had. It's also a good plot device for casting to kind of get away, be able to get away with whatever, whatever. I feel like if you're going to stop for Nimick, man, my boy Nimick got to survive. Seeing him go on the operating table and still lose was even tougher for me. We knew that he wasn't going to survive. Right. But I started to have hope when I saw Dr. Quadpaugh, which is what his name was.

Did you guys see that? Yeah, I did. I saw the credits. His name is Dr. Quadpa. That had to be a nickname. I don't think he's of the Westchester quad paws. Like, I don't think that that's an official name. Right.

So when I saw Dr. Quadpaul working on him, I thought he would survive, but, you know, he didn't. What did you guys think about that entire situation with Nimick in the aftermath of the abyss? Can I be real? I got to be real. We've seen people in the Star Wars universe come back for more. my man Darth Mall got his whole hat chopped off and he's running around here giving Obi-Wan

the business. He's also a super powerful Jedi. But I'm just saying like we could have hooking up with some robot legs. Like you got this was a breaking bad doctor. This isn't exactly like, you know, the best of the best here. I don't know. He's on a farm. Like he was sitting on a tractor waiting for him to just get operated on.

I don't think that we're going to the best people here. I get that. But we in a galaxy far far away. Y'all could have done a little bit more for my. boy, never. Again, like, they just, they throw this dude 20 grand and they're like, stitch him up, see what you can do.

Like, that's not the, he's just a hole in the wall doctor, you know, when like, you don't want to go, you don't want him to run the insurance. You're like, all right. All right. Yeah. Like, any doctor in Breaking Bad, Better Carl Saul. It's that guy. Like, he's a vet probably. It's his thing that's, and that's, and like,

this is a great episode of television, but this was tough to me to reconcile. Right. We're in the, we're in the heist. It's all going down, man. Boom. They get Lieutenant Gorn. I was like, oh,

that's tough. Ah, you know, it's going to be, it was always going to be tough for him. And then bang, they get tamarin. I'm looking around.

Like, hey, man, the two brothers? Those are the first two to die? I thought that as well. I was like, wait, what's going on?

Yeah. What are you doing here? And then for the ship to take off, I know they had to leave Sinta, I was like, interesting. You know, aside from Cassie and Diego Luna,

the three other folk that survived was like, okay, hmm, all right, this is what we doing, Star Wars. All right, for sure. I see what's going on. But, you know, then things happen. But, you know, at first I was like, what's going on? I have to ask you this. And we should have known Richie was evil.

What he tells the black man, hey, yo, cover me. Because if I'm Tamer, and I'm like, yo, your white ass should cover fucking me. Second of all, Tamer shouldn't have been covering no one's ass because he's an ex-storm trooper. So you know his aim. is off. So I'm just like, what is he supposed to do here? Like he's running around doing a whole bunch of fucking nothing. The fuck he's supposed to do. Doesn't work for him. It's tough. It was tough.

No, but seeing, I was honestly shy. I was like, let me get still around. Interesting. That doesn't seem right. And then he gets crushed by the coins. I was like, ah. That was a tough way to go. The second did that hit him, I was like, oh no. I thought maybe they were going to do a Professor X thing where it's like, even if he's not on the field anymore, maybe he could be in like a space wheelchair and he could be like... That's what I thought was going to happen. I thought what I thought was going to happen

was that he might lose the use of his legs, but that he would still be around. But no, he's gone. And the episode ends... The episode ends to me in such a place. It ends almost like the three-episode arc began. Cassian's still out there in the wilderness, it's trying to make sense out of all of this.

We don't know whether or not he's been, well, actually, I shouldn't say we don't know whether or not. He hasn't yet been indoctrinated to the cause yet. He's still a free agent. Like, Luton is happy, but everyone that we were just with on this journey has been pretty much decimated, right? The crew isn't together,

and we are now, to you guys' point earlier, as an audience left to sit back and kind of investigate the cost of all of this. It matters so much in the grand scheme of things, but we've watched these characters that we've been made to care about like go through it in such a way that we're kind of like, damn, you know? We still got to debrief with Luton. We still got to like, okay, what are next steps?

Like, all of that's that you got to make the drop off. All of these things need to happen still. Mon Mothma is fucking at the Senate floundering. By the way, the Senate, looking good after Revenge of the Sith, man. Looking good. Yeah, they don't have too much long later. They don't have too much long left. I mean, there's probably just a kangaroo court anyway.

Like, we know who's given the orders here. I mean, it is. It's a farce. Like, it's a... Papalton kept the Senate around for appearances for a while. Yeah, but like, they're not doing anything. Yeah, but he does what all autocrats and dictators do. They go, ah, fuck it.

Why? Why not? You know what I mean? None of those people are paying attention. Yeah, like, whatever, you know. So what do we think is going to happen at the ISB? The ISB seems to be panicking in shambles. Oh, the old home girl is going to pull a, I told you all.

I told you, y'all. She was happening. There's going to be a real good I told you so with our guys here. No, but you saw the homie. Guy Byrd! He was in a thing like, hey, tell your families, tell your staff, There ain't nobody going nowhere. We work in this all night, all week.

Y'all not seeing your families forever. I hate it when jobs. My old jobs used to say that shit. They're like, nobody's going. I'm like, bro, I'm going to fucking go. I don't know what to fucking tell you. Best Buy, 2002. Like, we're in there, right?

And our general manager is closing. And he goes, I remember he goes, And he goes, look, we're going to do, he's trying to rally us, man. I don't know what the fuck. He was trying to rally us. Like, the store's closed and he's like, hey, we are going to get it together. We're going to open in the morning with a fully stocked store. We're going to open in the morning with a clean store.

We're going to make it easy for that morning through. Missy's under construction is about to come out. Like, this is going to be the pride and the best buy way. You guys ready for it? Oh, God. And we went, and we went, I swear it just happened. We went. Yay.

And he went. I'm telling you, think about it. You're the general manager of the Best Buy. You're talking to a bunch of kids. We're in college, right? Like, we, it's fucking Friday night. We're closing the store, but we still got time to get home and do that thing. He's like, yeah.

And he goes, look, guys, we'll be here all night long. And I was like, I won't. No, sir. Not me. I got rode up. Like, everybody started laughing. I was like, I won't. And everybody laughed.

He was like, Van? I never forget. He went, Van? Not now. So what is this going to do to the ISB? Like, what is this going to make them do? I think they scramble a little bit. I think this is going to be the time when

they probably work outside their own system. This is probably when Cyril might get involved. He hears about this attack, reads it on space Twitter or wherever, and is like, all right, like picking up the cause, we'll call in that favor if that's going to be working at the ISB, doing whatever.

Like, he's going to be a thousand percent galvanized to be like, okay, I know who this is. Or if like, for some reason they have like a wanted sign or whatever and it happens to be Cassian or like he'll recognize something. Like he's going to be on a crash course of the ISB for sure. Yeah, I'd imagine his vendetta against Cassian gets weaponized in some way. I'd be interested to see how that happens, but I can just imagine him getting put on Digris staff. And then her being like, oh, man, that's all file.

We're working this old case with this Canari fella. And then she's like, oh, no, that guy. And then Cassian does, or not Cassian, Cyril does that thing where he's like, oh, man, that guy, he was a devious. effort. So he must be behind the robbery on And Dory and then they're like ooh and then they start connecting dots like it's an episode of

psych or whatever but I'll be interested to see how that works. Do we want to start doing something Steve where we keep count of Cassian's bodies? Sure. Like not come on, Jomey, not that way. The term body count has kind of just been co-opted into another thing.

I just thought it was funny. I just thought it was funny. Because he kills a lot of people. Come on now, don't put that on me, Ricky Bobby. No. No. So he's got three confirmed kills. Sure. But in the escape, the question is, can you attribute any other kills to Cassian?

Like what? The tie fighters or whatnot? Probably. Nah, I don't think so. That don't count. I don't think so. You don't think that counts? Okay, so that doesn't count.

But how many guys did it kill the escape? on Ferrix. I get a lot of as well. Do a lot of do you. For the next show that we do,

I think it would be good to have a Cassian and or body count to see just how dirty his hands are getting. Because I feel like the bloodier his hands get, the more of a weapon

he becomes for the rebels. Because at some point he goes too far to be able to turn back. Another question. In the first episode, Cassian was looking for his sister. When are we coming back to that guys?

We might be. Like, here's the thing. I think that, like, you're right in the sense that if fans are going to get this dirty and he's going to be sticking his neck out this far. He's going to have to start to believe in this. He's going to have to start to, like, pick up the cause a little bit more because it's going to be a minute before he actually thinks about the money again if he's risking it for this much.

So I think he's going to be reading that manifesto a bit. I think his heart's going to change a bit. Maybe he doesn't take as big of a cut. Maybe he, like, is starting to realize, like, okay, maybe there's something bigger here. I don't know how the sister ties into this exactly yet. I think that's probably, you know, maybe some twist of fate, maybe a season ending thing where like, okay, maybe there's word of his sister being out there somewhere, captured by the empire, maybe part of the empire somehow. I don't know. That's a bit of a loose threat. I wouldn't be surprised if she's like part of the ISB or some

shit. It's like, done, done, down, also really quick, because we're talking about bodies. Is this a midnight pronunciation, Charles? I wouldn't be surprised if potentially, like the sister he comes to find out she's in the ISB or some shit potentially it breaks his heart another question I have for y'all do you think y'all think Cassing gonna spin

the block and gonna be like hey yo Vicks I know shit went sideways but I got these credits like we can make it work one more time like cry on my shoulder I think that's gonna happen or not no shot no I mean we're gonna see Bix again

I think we're gonna see Bix again again. Are we? I think so. I think so. Bix again. You know, but he can't,

he can't go back to Ferrix. No, he might call her up. You like, Hey, yo, Bix, like, let's have a vacation. It's been rough for both of us lately. Well, he told Brazos that he'd be sending money for his moms.

So that might be his first stop, go to the bank, transfer some cash, some credits to his moms, maybe make a couple phone calls. But he can't go back there again and try and be like, hey,

if you're casting. And you're coming back to Bix. What song is playing in your ship when you land? I need a girl part two. I need a girl part two. That's Charles's. Caught up in you by the 38 special. Don't know what that is.

I don't know that is. I was going to say quality time by high five, but that's- Quality time by high-five. Okay, okay. You never spent 38 special before? I'm going to spend them now, Jomey. You got a good taste of music. You know what I'm going to be playing?

Because I want to show strength when I'm laying. Okay. Oh, man. I want to associate. Also, this is when you're like. landing and coming out of the bar. There's going to be why I'm coming out of the thing. I want to show strength.

Like I'm the man. Yeah, the smoke's coming down. It's going to be DMX featuring Cisco, what these bitches want from the deal. What? Oh, wow. Hey, man. Dog. I'm coming back with 200,000 credits.

You know, I'm not coming. Try 40 million. Like, but he didn't take the 40 million credits. Well, it's true. Yeah. So what I'm saying, I'm coming back with the credits. You know, I got you. got 170 because I spent 30 on the ship.

30 on the ship, yeah. So I'm coming back with the 170,000 credits and I'm coming down and it's like, dun dun dun dun dun dun dun a-o! You know what I'm saying? That's like, that's what I'm playing.

You know, that's what I'm playing. Let's talk about the manifesto real quick before we move to Nerd News Minute and say goodbye to those who we lost. The manifesto seems like it's to play a gigantic part in like what happens moving forward. And it seems like that

Nimick had a special reason he was inspired to make sure that the manifesto ended up with Cassian. Why? So here's the thing, right? I think there's like twofold, right?

Clearly he believes in Cassie. He's like, this is a guy. We get him to read this manifesto he could galvanize the rebellion for years to come. He could be a true leader. But

Vell really wanted him to take that manifesto. You know, hey, he wanted you to have this. I'm good, Val. No, no, no. He really wanted you to have this. Well, I said I'm good. Like, it's for you. You know what I'm saying?

Did she put a little, hey man, I might need to contact this man again. Let me slide. A little, little, little, my hard in there. Let me put a little thing if I need to find him. He's got a Nemix manifesto on him. You know what I mean? Like she really wanted him take that. She could have been like, oh,

you know, oh, no, you don't want it. Oh, well, he really wanted you have that. But I guess since you're, you know, got a gun to me, I'll just let you go. But she's like, nah, you're taking this manifesto. So I think it, like, it could also play a part in Vell finding him again. But, yeah, she really wanted him to have that thing. I think Nemek knows he has the intangibles when they're having that conversation. Nemek says,

I'm struggling to understand why my faith doesn't calm me. I believe in something. Why am I so unsettled? I mean, you have nothing. You sleep like a stone. I think Nemick sees that Cassie really does have all the intangibles to be like the ultimate rebel because he can see things from both sides. He is a person who at one point only believes in himself, only believes in nothing.

So the only way to go for him is to start realizing that there's something bigger than himself. And I think he already realizes that and he's been on that pathway. And I think Nemek is the person that is just like he just needs that one thing. He just needs that one person to believe in him and push him. And it's so funny that that's not probably going to be Lutheran. It's going to be these words from this young kid who just believes in the rebellion so much. A thousand percent what Charles said. It really is because like you can see that when,

like he's talking to him when Nemick's talking to Cassian he's actually glad that he's there like there wasn't even really like an ounce of distrust when they began this job yeah sure like he wasn't there for all of the most disclosed reasons

but even in the end he's like this is illuminating to what I believe in like the fact that okay you're here for money but you could be on the empire's side for money but you're here with us so what does that mean for me that's a lot that he can take account for. And if he can just like, you know, persuade him to be like, yeah, this is like,

this is why we're oppressed. This is why you could probably identify with us a little bit more than the empire anyway, because you seem to have your own opinions there yourself. That makes a lot of sense for him. And of course he would want to give it to him. All right, guys, we got to say goodbye to some people before we move on in the Nerd News Minute. Rip to Nimick. Cushed by some credits. Poor one out for Nemik. Real tough. Poor off him in Nimick. He literally had the money. He literally had the money dropped on him man god damn bro rip skein

traitor fuck skein I'm showing up just to make sure he's dead he helped him he helped him he helped him he helped him still he helped him complete the mission I mean yeah and like the final hour he turned but like for the most part yeah ripped rip terramus gun down

peace out brother rip gorn gun down damn Damn. But he did it for his old lady. He finally got one in for his old lady. Seven years serving you, I deserve worse. I deserve worse.

Rip Sinta? I'm interested to see what happens with Senta. Like, she's still around. She's still around. Normally showing that she survived means that we're supposed to remember she's alive. Right. Vell ain't letting her go. That's her honey.

She can't let Sinta go. She's, she's, coming back. It's going to be coming back pissed. All right. That is enough of the fantastic and or show. We have some Nerd News Minute to get to. This has been updated while we've been in the document. So, Steve, this just broke. I'm assuming. Give me the Nerd News Minute.

The Blade movie has been pushed back as Marvel searches for a new director. Because of this, this is pushed back a significant number of MCU films for the future. Blade is now set to release. September 6th. 2024. Deadpool 3 is set to release November 8th, 2024. Fantastic 4, February 14th. Oh, Valentine's Day, 2025, Avengers Secret War, May 1st, 26. I'll be 46 years old. When Avengers Secret War comes out, I'll be 46 years old. When Avengers Secret War comes out, I'll be 46 years old. How do you got to remind us of the slow march of time there? Like, um, okay, Charles, these delays mean what for the MC?

I mean, if I'm prognosticated, I think Faggy, Faggy's not a dumb man. He's very, very smart. He knows what it is. He knows that the product been stepped on, you know, and so far, it doesn't matter. The fiends are going to are going to come no matter what, but I think he's a man of integrity. I think he's a man of honor. And he knows that the bar, he got to raise it again, you know? I would rather these movies be pushed back.

and we get like, we don't have to do the thing we've been doing where we're just like, well, it's the state of the MCU. Well, no, no, no, nah, like get it right. Get the scripts right. Make sure we have what we need. Now, what I want to ask you then, does this give credence to a belief that I think that has been running throughout the industry that the Disney Plus shows have put an outsized burden on the MCU factory just in terms of like how much they can put out, the quality of what

they can put out? I think this is kind of like probably the MCU realizing like, hey, like if we want this thing to keep surviving, we need to press pause. So everything is good from the script to the directors to the CGI. Like everything has to be get back to a certain level of quality that I think earlier phases of the MCU had. So a couple of things. I think you're right that they are going to take their time and try to roll back prices a little bit. roll back prices at Walmart. They're going to roll things back a little bit.

Two, secondly, they know that Wakanda Forever is really, really good. What makes you say that? Because I don't think that there would be the confidence to disappoint the audience again to this degree unless they felt like there was going to be a significant reinvestment in Marvel after Wakanda Forever. because when you think about it,

we've been living movie to movie with them. It was like, okay, we have these movies coming out there, cool. But even Spider-Man No Way Home. It's a good movie, right? We all loved it in the theaters. We had fun time with Spider-Man in the theaters. I don't want to be too overly critical

with Spider-Man. But then it was like, all right, we're going to really get back to MCU business when Spider-Man has like some Sony DNA in it. We know that they're splitting the baby. We're going to really get back. to MCU business in multiverse of madness. Movie comes out, doesn't really move us as well as much as it's not terrible, but it doesn't move us.

It's like, all of cool, multiverse of madness, like, whatever. All of this stuff is happening in the middle, TV shows and all of this stuff. We're going to really get back to a Thor, Love, and Thunder. Doesn't happen, right? And in the middle of these films, all of this other business shit is getting in the way. Fantastic Four is losing its director. Blades losing his director. All this stuff is coming in.

The only thing that Marvel really has to tie us over are the television shows. Meanwhile, with Wakanda Forever right now, everybody is talking about, I've heard so much stuff, guys. Everybody's talking about how good this movie is. Like, everyone is talking about how good this movie is. I don't mean to hype it, but I'm, like, literally hearing that this is a top five amazing Marvel film. And I think that they feel a little bit more bulletproof that everyone's going to be on a high, and they're going to be able to reset things a little bit after that movie so they can do this

because this is disappointing. With Blade in particular, like, you know, rehearsal at least 47 years old, you know, if he's going to have a Blade franchise and do a couple of Blade movies and we're not going to be doing

Blade 2, colon, I broke my back, then I'm just saying, man, they need to get busy and get Blade in production. They've already, Blade is already debuted in the M-CU, his voice did in Internals. That's last year. So, you know, I think that they're going to, they're going to ride the wave of Wakanda Forever for a little while. Because from what I'm hearing, the movie is really, really, really solid.

Do you also think that the quality of, like, let's say, to your point, Wakanda Forever is, like, that type of movie? Do you think there is any soul searching of, like, hey, because we know we can still create these type of movies, let's pause a little bit and, like, how we can like really, really pay attention. Because I can, I can assume that Kevin Feigy, the reason that you're seeing directors drop out, the reason that you're seeing all this shuffling, is that it's just too much. It's like too much for the machine to keep this content.

And do you think there's a level of like, hey, instead of just rushing it out, let's try to, because I'm almost positive Wakanda forever, they went over that with a fine tooth comb to make sure that it had everything that it needed to be, to give people that emotional release after the death of Chadwick. And that probably is not something

they've done with a lot of other films. I have a theory. I have what it's called a two-figie theory. Marvel needs another fig-y. They need two figgies. Before, one figgy was enough. One Mickey Feigey was enough. One fig-fig-dy-fig-y-was good enough.

Okay? You had one, two, three things in production at a time. You had other people doing this. Now, they need Marvel needs two figies. They might even need fucking three. Figuies. They might need a FIGY for every branch of Marvel. They might need a Marvel. I said this on the podcast with the brilliant and amazing Joyner Robertson for World War Wolf by Night. Fantastic. They might need a Marvel horror Figey. They might need an Avengers Figee. They might need

an X-Men Figey. They might need two or three different Fygis to run the Marvel situation. If things run like they think we run, and we don't really know how they run, specifically we have an idea of how they run over there, then not just him, but everybody else might be a little spread too thin. We know this. Like, these shakeups are, this is Sony level dysfunction.

I got to be real with you. All it is, I'm serious. I don't know about Sony level. I don't know about Sony level. But wait, but listen to what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the product, but I'm talking about,

yeah, this person is directing, now this person's quitting. This person is directing. now this person's quitting. This actor doesn't like the script. This movie's getting pushed back. This is like, we haven't seen this from them before.

And I know the pandemic fucked up a lot of shit, but this is not the way things used to be with them. I mean, dead has been, though. Those things happen all the time. Yeah, but I think the ship is leakier where it's like you can tell that there's tension because if people are running to the press being like, oh, so-and-so doesn't like this script,

so-and-so left for this reason, da-da-da-da. There's people from within the building or at least connected to it who have a business reason to basically be like, a-o, like, she has changed. That's, at least that is my read, where I think part of the pause too is like,

hey, we need to get the headquarters back in business running smoothly. And by the way, I'm not saying that it hasn't happened. I'm just saying there hasn't been a confluence of it happened. Like, it hasn't been with some of these big films. We're talking about who doesn't want to direct a Fantastic Four movie? Who doesn't want to direct a Dr. Strange sequel? who doesn't want to direct a blade movie?

Who says no to that? It's one thing. You know what I mean? Like who we're looking at this and then you have stars that like, like, obviously we've had situations like Payton Reed and Edgar Wright. Like we've had situations like that before. I'm not saying that we haven't. But now it's becoming slightly routine. I mean, it's happened with most of their upcoming movies.

It happened with Dr. Strange. it's going to happen with Blade. I even think Taika Watiti, he was real in interviews where he's like, I was doing a lot of shit. And then there was leaked to the press that he might not be coming back for Thor 4. So to Van's point,

it is almost like with every single movie. We're just kind of like, oh, there's shakeups again. Okay. And this Blade Shakeup is coming. I can't tell you guys, two months before they start to, what, on a movie of, that size?

And that's so much money you're losing. How much money do you think you lose by just like pausing that shit? Yeah, two months before you lose your director? What the fuck? I mean, look, and I'm not, who knows what the hell's happening? It's very ambitious. Marvel is being very ambitious and we were all very excited for it, but I don't know if the ambition has been good for the product.

What I mean? I don't know. We fucking know it hasn't. We know it hasn't. I don't know why we went like we we know it hasn't. The stuff is not bad, but. I mean, think about how people are talking about the new shows. Like, you have to think about it.

Like, say whatever you want, quality-wise about She-Hulk. She-Hulk does not have the same energy around it that a Wanda Vision or a Loki had. Like, I do think there are diminishing returns of the audience being like, oh, okay, it's just a TV show. This isn't a special event anymore. That shit was happening when Hawkeye was out. I do think that there is a lot. level of they're trying to be like, if we want this to continue, we have to make everything feel special. And it's not just for the people like us who are going to watch everything.

It's for like the stragglers who are like, should I watch this Marvel movie? Should I watch this TV show? I do think that they are having those strategic conversations. Some of that, though, is going to, some of that is character base though, right? Like the movies, when Loki comes back out, everybody will be back bought in. If they did, if they did Scarlet Witch, Wanda Vision season two, which they're, I guess, not going to do, it would come back. You don't think some of that is character-based,

Charles, that people are not as into She-Hulk? I don't really agree with that because I think Marvel, the MCU, was built on making us care about characters that were formally, like, C-list characters at best. So I don't know if I totally believe, like, it's character-based.

That's a fair point. You know what I'm saying? Because, like, here's the thing. If you would have told me back then be like, yo, Ant-Man's going to have a movie with Kang in it, and it's going to be one of the most anticipated movies of the year, I'd be like, yo, you're smoking crack. So they're able to do it. I just think that because

the product is not up to a certain standard, people are getting a little worried. I mean, I think you mentioned this, Charles, but my thing is, I think Faggy, he saw the talk after Love and Thunder. They was talking cash.

It was in a bag. It's just Marvel. Is this what it is? look at this this mighty giant and what it and what it's reduced to and he said all right for sure I gotta get back in a lap I gotta hit the gym

I gotta go back five five beats a day for three summers you know what I mean lock yourself back up yeah yeah he said enough is enough I'm tired of the slander gotta get back

gotta get back to the real you gotta make those calls you gotta push things back you know Fantastic Four Deadpool's three Blade Avengers You're not about Armour Wars.

Armor Wars is now a movie, so that was something that also got pushback? Yeah. You know what I mean? And then there's no Marvel movies between the Marvels and Captain America.

It's like a nine to ten month stretch. Yeah, Kevin Fogg, you saw the Shlander. He's like, all right, for sure. Y'all, y'all been talking cash on my name. Enough is enough. I'm stepping back in. So what right now,

like Jomey said, between the Marvels on July 28th, 2023, and Captain America New World Order on May 3rd, 24, we got nothing. There's got to be a handful of TV. We got a handful of TV shows that are bound to come out by them.

But I mean, no films, though. No films. That's okay. We'll be okay. It's been getting a little strange. Like, is Marvel going to be leaning a bit more Star Wars heavy and just becoming TV now? Well, they shouldn't because they don't know.

They don't like where Star Wars makes better television shows than movies right now, Marvel. It doesn't make any movies right now. Right. Marvel, to me, makes better movies than television. Maybe not. I don't know. I don't know why I can really say that.

Whoa, no, we ain't doing that. All right, all right. No, let's relax. It's something to say, on for, you know, the better part of a year when we've got, you know, the Marvel's and New World Order coming out. Van, say, let's make it a midnight court. You think that Marvel makes better TV shows and movies now?

No, I think they make better movies than TV shows if I had to. Come on, man. Like, I think they, I think they make. I think they make better movies than TV shows. There's not a TV show that they've made that I think is better than the feeling I had in Spider-Man No Way Home, even if it falls apart at home. Still, like, you can't, that's magic.

The best parts of Loki? Eh, maybe. But it's Spider-Man. We saw three Spite. Come on, man. Loki, Loki is better than Spider-Man No-Way Home. Spider-Man No Way Home had a bigger, had bigger moment with the thing. Loki is better than Spider-Man.

Oh, all right. What are we talking about? Are we talking about overall better? Or are we talking about, like, I guess as a story, yes, Loki is better, but in terms of like a feeling. As a feeling,

I mean, as a feeling, yeah, like, as a feeling, seeing three Spider-Man's, it's a cheap trick. Like,

you're not wrong. You're not wrong. As a feeling, you're absolutely right. And you're probably leaving that theater and going, oh my God, but Loki is better than Spider-Man.

As a story, yes, I will agree with you. I'll be wrong with you. I'll be real with you. I think Wanda Vision is better than Spider-Man. no way. No, I'm not going. I'm not going that way. That's tough. That's tough. Not with Ralph Boner

in there. I'm not, I'm not going that way. Really, Ralph Boner ruins it all. No, I'm just saying, like, it's not, it's not no way home. Like, we can't. I feel like we're, we're, we're too unfairly malign for Ralph Boner. You're acting like that ruined the entire show. I'm not saying it ruined the entire show. It's just like, I was like, whatever. And I mean, to be fair, the last, they put Jeffrey Dahmer in the MCU and you like, All right, all right. Enough. Charles, you don't think that Wanda Vision is better than No Way Home.

Oh, come on. I don't. Here's the thing. I saw that last episode. I saw that last episode. Come on, man. The whole fucking, man, like, Spider-Man, No Way Home. I know, one of this is not better than Spider-Man.

No Way Home is mid for like an hour and 10 minutes. It's not me for, like, come on. I'm not saying it's the best, but I know, like, Stop. I know how y'all was talking about Spider-Man No Way Home. I know how I was there with you. Yeah, and then Midnight Bulligan is going to relitigate this. Listen.

Come on. Listen. Y'all hating on Tom Holland. He got was Zendaya. Y'all was just like, fuck this a little more. Listen, I'm not, the disrespect is crazy. The No Way Home disrespect is crazy. Wait, all right, Jomey.

Come on. What's better? No Way Home or Wanderer. Like. No way home. I don't, this is like. Why are we even having this conversation? Nah, bro.

There's two episodes of Wanda Vision that either black and white John, come on, man. That's boring. Come on. Let's keep it a buck. I'm not with you here. I don't agree. I'm with Vand here.

Stop the cap. I don't agree at all. And by the way, Charles, Charles, you want some cap because I have you on tape saying how much you like it. We did prestige TV. You guys go back.

on tape saying WandaVision is fucking better. Go, go back. And then no way home. I'm not saying Wadivision's bad. Release the tapes. Like, go back and watch, go back and listen to me and Charles. You acted like I'm saying it's me. It's not.

It's the pilot. The pilot for the Midnight Boys, basically. It's me and Charles on the prestige TV feed talking about Wanda Vision and listen to Charles with glee. Pick your head up. Pick your head up. No, because here's the thing. You're twisting my words, bro.

Like, come on, because you know you, Oliver. I am on tape. He did get me on that. I got this. He did get me on that shit. I mean, WandaVision is definitely good. I don't think there's any,

just, there's no argument that. Like, there are some great episodes, but I'm not going to sit back and be like, man, you know, I'm going to do today.

I'm going to watch. Oh, we watch it. We watch it. That's crazy. That's nice. Okay, let me ask you this. What's the last time

you watched Spider-Man, No Way home? Last week. Van. Really? Yes. I spent that thing last week. How many times?

Have you seen it since... How many times have you seen this since we saw it in the theaters? That's probably my... Since the theaters? Probably my third or fourth time. Okay. I haven't... We tried to get through it once and we couldn't.

Once the villains come, you're like, oh, man, this is really cool. Look at all the villains. All right, cool. When does Peter 2 show up? I'm not like, I'm not holding you. But at the same time, there's Parsons and Wanavirjavision. I'm like, yeah, I'm not...

Like, I'll go back to a specific episode, like the episode where they go, like, where they go back and it's, it's Darcy and it's Monica and it's the homie Jimmy and I'm like hey this is cool this 45 minutes of school I'm not really trying to see everything else bro like we can keep the thing pushing I don't really care

that's me personally all right midnight court in a couple weeks where Van can defend his take that Marvel TV is better than Marvel movies never said that I'm saying on it don't run Never said. I stand on whatever I say, dog.

You know what I'm saying? Ten toes down, boy. Ten toes down. That's a wrap for us. Thursday, Ben Lindbergh, Steve and Jomey team up to talk about the season finale of She-Hulk. Will the leader show up? Who knows? People say a Red Hulk is going to show up.

I'm like, bro, y'all got shit. She teased it. She did tease it. She teased it. Friday House of R will be deep diving into the next episode of Rings of Power, which is a show that comes out every week. on Tooby. You can check it out.

All right, then. Come on now. Come on. Come on. Steve, who's your favorite character in Rings of Power, Steve? Gladriel. She's great.

Saturday, Charles and Justin Charity sit down to discuss Chainsaw Man. Chainsaw Man. Now, what is Chainsaw Man again? What does he do? By the way, I'm not hating on chainsaw Man. I probably would love chainsaw Man.

Almost every anime, y'all tell me to watch. I'm like, God damn, this shit is great. Basically, you guys should, You guys should watch it. Chainsaw Man is essentially about a kid who is like down on his luck. He has a dog. That's a chainsaw devil. He gets killed. The chainsaw dog saves him. He becomes the chainsaw devil. And he fights other devil. So in the first, in the first episode, he fights the zombie devil. It's very good. He has a chainsaw for a head and hands. And it's very violent. Wow. Chainsaw Man. Charles and Justin Charity. Okay. This Sunday Talk to Thrones is back.

As Chris Ryan, Madeline Joe give you their instant reactions to how. of the drag right after the episode is done, you guys are invited back over to watch it again if you want to.

Our producer is Steve the architect almond. Jomey a dinner on on social media hashtag Jomey's Autumn Joy.

What? Jomey's Autumn Joy. I don't know what that means. Is that a reference I'm missing? It's Autumn and you're joyful.

You're joey's Autumn Joy. You always presume some sort of like ill-intent here. Yeah. This is exactly what it is.

Jomi, look, be honest with you. Take your trauma curtain down. You know what I mean? Like, like, take your trauma curtain down. You, you are with friends. We love you. I'm not the one who at the beginning of the podcast dissed you. That was Charles.

That's actually before the podcast. We're not even going to tell what the diss was because it was inappropriate. Like, I'm not the one that dish you. I love you. Steve loves you. First of all, if anybody was dissing Joe, me is you being like, I'm not posting this shit.

That's not what I said. I didn't say I wasn't posted. You got to ask me this way. I said, I say, that's not what I said. Whatever, Charles, you know. All right. Additional, like, additional production from Arjuna, Rob Kapal.

Charles, take us out. Andor is a blast. Shout out to Steve Harvey. Hey, hey, y'all, yo, yo, you, yeah, yeah, Bladed Marcus Garvey. Blade of Marcus Garvey. Wow.

Incredible. And we hung out, you know, Steve brought some 7-Up Zero, which fucking nobody asked for. I brought Sprite too. Yeah. Yeah. I brought Sprite.

Wait, wait, you can't say I mean, like, he's bringing refreshments for everybody. I wasn't going to be drinking. I had an upset tummy. I was going to bring in refreshments for everybody. What are you talking about? I put the whole fucking party on. Don't you ever, like, don't you ever talk about Steve

bringing some seven up over to the house. Seven up Steve is his new name. I am going to say that. Over Sprite, Steve? That was someone who's a fan of cinnamon life would do. Okay, the seven up was for me. The Sprite was for everybody else. You probably put the seven up in your cinnamon life.

Wait, why was this right for everybody else, Steve? I'm assuming. Oh, my God. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

Oh, God. Oh, God. Oh, God. Oh, Jesus Christ. Oh, John. No, no. I don't even think about that. Okay.

Watch out now. A bunch of niggas. Some sprite. Firsty. Obey your thirst. I love that commercial, by the way. My commercial, first things first, obey your thirst. Grand Poole was out with the pound with my man with my left hand

because I pushed the Sprite in my left hand and I push the button when I don't want to hear nothing. I let it go when I want to hear something. First things first, obey your thirst, drink Sprite, all right? When Steve saw that commercial with Grand Pupai, he thought for the rest of the time that black niggers love Sprite, which is not untrue. No, I can't believe you leaned into that.

Can I explain myself? You're bringing a Kool-A next week. Are you bringing the Koolet? Are you bringing the Kool-Aid to House of the Dragon on Sunday? No, no. Absolutely not. No, I remember last time that I was at Vance Place, somebody got the postmates order wrong,

and he ordered a two-liter bottle of Sprite when they actually gave him just like a little personal bottle, and he got very upset about that. So I remembered that, and I was like, okay, so he's a Sprite guy, so I brought Sprite. Sure. Yeah, exactly. I mean, sure.

That's exactly what happened. I remember when that did happen. What you just said was tantam out to saying, y'all say the N-word to. All right. I just remembered something. Feels like every product claims real protein these days. But real doesn't start on a label.

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