The Ringer-Verse - 'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

The Boys are back and they’re diving into 'Andor' Season 2 head first! Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Jonathan Kermah, and Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Okay This is of course The Ringer's Nexus podcast Feet for All Things fandom We are Steve the architect Alman The builder and tigger of things

Jomi the explainer at dinner on You've got questions He's got answers Oman Van Here's the resurgent Handline No cowboy hell Yeah no cowboy hat

You're feeling confident today Yeah it's out there We're done with it It's over I know the cowboy hat We'll be back But I just had to show it off today I gave it to CNN

And people were like Why don't you give it to the nigger Colt Cote baby Chuck The 24 carrick closer Bozman the dog Wait, Boseman don't have a nickname? I don't know.

Bozzy Woselie, the Wonderpup? Oh, look, he likes it. Well, he is officially the fifth midnight boy. Yeah, according to Chuck. Well, nobody else. Sixth, the midnight boy. You said, no, you made the declaration. Oh, my gosh.

Together we are known us. I'm the Midnight Boys. The Midnight Collective is back there. Arjuna. Alia, S.O.B. Zanaris. Jonathan spit hot fire. Kerma. You got follows on socials,

Instit, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok. Jummy. A lot of fun stuff coming this month, last of us, and or obviously tap in. No, what? Oh. Social just been going crazy, bro. Hey, man, we do what we can.

Social media is just a powder keg. I saw someone, I saw a woman at you when I was driving. I was like, damn, what did he do on this episode of Ireland? Oh, no. We were talking about whether or not it's okay to comment on how good Sierra looks. Because what I said was Sierra looks good and I'm glad that Russell Wilson is continuing

to play football because if he was at home he would just get a pregnant again. So, okay, I think I see where people could be upset with this. Wait, what? I don't give a... I know you don't.

I don't understand. I don't even want to fucking... I get it. It's just, God damn it. I'm seeing a lot of angles. I'm about to go to the Manosphere. We're on YouTube. Like,

comic, comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every midnight boy's The House of our episode on YouTube.com, black slash at Ringaverse and also on Spotify. We have to say that. Broome remind us!

The Ringiverse is deep on The Last of Us. How many shows do we have that are doing the Last of Us coverage? Why? It's going to be a lot. We got a lot of people talking about it. Two so far. There might be one on prestige TV,

so three. Last of us, this is a big season of television. It's the It Girl. Yeah, for sure. Sure right now. Honestly, it's HBO's cooking.

White Lotus, Last of Us. We got our Game of Thrones coming soon. They got their IP going strong. House of R will be giving you their Last of Us deep dives as well. I think there should be a lot there.

Yeah. I think there's going to be a lot there. House of Rour does really well with the deep dives. And when the show has deep, deep, deep, deep lore, is when I feel like it's the best and there's going to be a lot there

for the last of us. Over under six hour pause. for and or though. I want to see him touch six hours. I want to see him touch six hours. I mean, I'm taking the under confidently, but it's going to be like four hours. I think, I think if, I think if three hours of content. It's going to be three, like three plus hours, maybe four.

If you were to ever see something north of four hours, that makes it a two-part pod, I think. I don't think that we want to put something out there that's like, I mean, you're probably, unless I'm wrong. I mean, you're talking shop, really. But I think we're going to put like literally three and a half hours on three-hour pods. Right. Podcast are you guys on. But a mid-edition coming back on Friday as well, Mitt Boys. What are they doing?

What are you guys doing? Oh, man, there's a lot coming out this month. There could be that video game adaptation of Until Dawn. They could be taking a look at it? What the fuck is that? It's that PlayStation movie. What? Yeah.

What are you out of? They adapted a video game that was like a horror slasher thriller into a movie with Peter Stormair. Okay. We might be taking a look at that. All right, sweet. Peter Stormare, one of the best. on-screen portrayals of Lucifer ever. I love it.

From Constantine. Constantine. Legendary movie. Overhated movie. Overhaited. We should. I've never seen the, are you talking about the Keanu one? Yeah.

Oh, that movie's great. We should do a whole series here called Overhated. Constantine, I don't think people were really ready for it when it came out. Overhated movie. All I'm saying, it's really good. Constantine? To me, it's good. To me, it's good.

Maybe, maybe people weren't ready for the occult type of shit. Overhated because we already got to do Eternals, potentially. Eternals is overhated. In retrospect, with everything that came after it, I'm not saying it's a good movie, but it is... We've had the Thanos, I've judged you too harshly conversation about Eternals. You guys, give us your overhated movies. Make a list on one of these places that you were fantastic for. All right, I mean, I don't think that that's overhated.

I think that most people that were there kind of still remember that movie fondly. Oh, wow. But I think the second one kind of drags it down a little. I think a lot of the Fox X-Men movies now that we know the Fox X-Men are coming back at Doob's day. I'm just like, low over-hated. X-Men The Last Stand, Overhated? No, adequately hated. No, there's good points.

There's good parts in the movie. No, I know, but there's good parts in the movie. Just not. Yeah, they just did. That movie would be at least. 10% better to me had they not done like the juggernaut type of stuff. The juggernauts. Yeah.

It's just like they fuck over the shit and they spit in the faces of the fans. But it's like, it's a little over. The Phoenix aspect of. Tough. Haven't done it right. Tough. Do you, last question, do you think there's any chance to MCU touches the Phoenix? Or is it just kind of like, we are never going?

You know, it's not easy to do. It isn't. But they have to get it right. But it's not easy to do. It's hard to do. If you've read the original Dark Phoenix, it has a lot of that, like, Guardians of the Galaxy. You know, they go off planet.

There's alien. I think that they could do it. You just need to kind of have that goofy. You have to be willing to do the goofy sci-fi. It's really hard because I think we could all remember when we finished X2 and we saw the shadow of the Phoenix in that, in that lake, how excited we were for what that could mean. And then it was just absolutely not easy to do. It takes a long time to build it up.

You get connected to Jean and all of her vulnerability. And then she has to turn into this cosmic force of pure passion. And it's a quick turn. It's tough. It's not easy to do. And you probably need to do it over the course maybe for like four or five movies, actually. Yeah. Maybe if you have like a while, we'll see what the MCU does with it.

Okay. On today's show, though, we're going to give you our instant reactions to the latest episodes. Of Andor. Let's fucking go. Andor is fucking back and Charles could not be happier. Spoiler warning for Andor, everything in what I'm starting to call Tony Gilroy's Star Wars. Because he has his own wing of Star Wars. He has his own wing, his own wing of Star Wars, the Tony Gilroy wing of Star Wars.

But to be fair, Tony Gilroy has told the press, he's like, don't get it twisted. Baby Yoda paid for it this way. You know what I'm saying? Oh, no, no. This is like, David Cologna, Jean Favreau paid for this way. No, no, no. I'm with it. You know?

I'm with it. I'm just saying there's a tone, a feeling, a kinetic energy that exists in his version of Star Wars. But our spoiler one is for everything Star Wars, and we're going to drop it right now. We're getting ready to talk about Cassianander. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. Speaking of our reactions, we once again bring you the Midnight Manifest and boy, am I anxious to hear this.

Oh, it's going to, we're going to get through as quick. Go for it, Chuck. All right, this is your Midnight Manifest for Andor's season two, all three of these first episodes directed by Ariel Climann and written by Tony Gilroy. We're switching it up this time. I'm not going episode by episode. I'm going by character arc. So Cassian, we start one year later, B.B.Y.4 at an imperial outpost.

Cassian now is seasoned rebellion vet steals an advanced imperial ship from an outpost with the help of a nervous new defector. Cassian is successful in his heist until he's captured by a rebellion splinter cell that crash landed on a planet and need his help to escape the world as Cassian is the only person who knows how to fly this tie fighter. This cell also killed Porco the man he was supposed to pass the ship along to. Cassian watches and often nudges the splinter cell until they devolve into mutiny and he can escape. Next we have the empire. At the mouth-themed divide, Orson Crennick calls the top secret council together to plan a wide-scale invasion of Gorman. The empire needs to strip the planet of Kalkite, a substance they desperately need to coat their reactors. Unfortunately, this process will also render the planet uninhabitable, and how does our girl, Didera prove her medal to her new boss?

Well, she proposes the empire infiltrate the rebellion network on the planet and so dissension. After hard days work, Dider goes back to her new hubby, Cyril, and at an awkward dinner, Didera mussel Ciro's mom and says, there's a new head bitch in town, and only one of them can have cards and nuts in her hands. Mon Motham in marriage. Next, shit is not going great for Mon Mothma. Her daughter is on the even of arranged marriage to Davo Skolden's son, which she knows is bound to be loveless just like her marriage. Tay Colma is pressuring Bond for some credits or he's about to rat,

and Luton is hovering over his collaborator's shoulder, letting her know, Tay got to get the fuck up out of here. And by the third of episode, we get the return of my girl, Sinta, who is going to Merk Tay and get him out of the paint. Last but certainly not least, Brasso, Bix, Will, and Bitu Emo have started a new life on an Adderham planet,

Mina Rao. Their peace is quickly interrupted when an imperial ship arrives to conduct a census. Bix struggles with PTSD from her time being tortured by the Empire in season one, while Brasso works with a local grain farmer to try and avoid the harvest. Brasso ends up losing his life as he was betrayed by the farmer. Bix fends off a rapist imperial officer as she tries to escape the planet. And as all hope seems lost, Cassian arrives to help Bix and will escape. That has been your midnight manifest for the first three episodes.

How did I do? Was it not too wrong? That was fantastic. I really feel like I have a good sense of what happened there. We're back, baby. Midnight manifest, we are back. So, Van, let's go to the chase. And or season one, I think we have gone through it being properly rated.

Potentially being a little overrated. And maybe with season two, I'm back to being like, this is the shit. So how are you feeling with Andor's season two being back in these first three episodes? I'm feeling great being back. There's so much going on in the episodes, though. There's so much happening here. I was wondering if you guys, can we just talk about everything that happened and then get into our feelings about the three episodes at the end? Is that okay?

So do we want to start, let's start with Cassian, because I think what these three episodes do brilliantly is that we see a different. version of Cassian, even though it's only a year later. I think the first season was about him becoming radicalized and fully joining the rebellion. And this season is him being a season vet. And what you see over the course of these three episodes, the defector that he's talking to, she's nervous. She doesn't know, this is her first time and her first big mission. He's calming her down. But also, when he crash lands on the planet, he's like, hey, yo, y'all want to get some water. It's not going to rain forever. I think you need a perimeter. Tony Gilroy is doing such a good job in a very short amount of time,

basically showing us that this is a different Cassian, that he knows how to maneuver as a spy in this, that he's becoming a leader. And I thought that it was handled just like deathly. What did you think of kind of Cassian's return? So he looks to me, like when you think about him, it almost feels like Skywalker in Return of the Jedi a little bit. Yeah.

When you're introduced to Luke in Return of the Jedi, he walks into Jabba's spot. You're like, oh, he's got it. He's figuring it out. He's mind-tricking people. He's confident talking to Jabba about how powerful he is. Luke is a Jedi. He's not a farm boy anymore. He's not a farm boy anymore.

Whatever metamorphosis that he went through from a wide-eyed farm boy on Tatouille to actual Jedi, you feel like it's happened. And part of it happened off screen. Yeah. Right? You watch the parts of it that were formative. You watch him, Phase Vader, you watch him go try to save his friends, the whole night. You watched all of that.

But part of it happened off screen. When we first see Cassian and he is in disguise, you know, in the imperial base, trying to steal this advanced tie fighter, you know that things have happened since you left him to where he's become even more adept at espionage and going undercover and at calming down the new people. He reminded me of Lutheran a little bit. When he's giving her the speech, I'm like, oh, you've become more than your fear. Yeah, I was just like, oh, no, Luther.

And even to the point to where when he saves the day at the end, he comes back as sort of the anti-Jedi. the person that doesn't have the force, but is there to save the day just based on guile and his understanding of how to maneuver in and out of bad situations. I at first was getting annoyed with him with the slap dicks from my... I was getting annoyed. However, it was incredibly important,

not just to build to the last moment where Cassian comes in to save the day, but also to show you that he is in a position where he is so deadly focused that there are not many circumstances you can put him in that he's not going to wait can i can ask this really quick there was a reading of these episodes where i'm like even when cassian is talking to the woman in the beginning where there was almost like a sinister edge to it because when the other imperial officer comes you see this look on cascans face like am i going to have to kill someone i have to kill someone and and then i'm like he doesn't take that woman with him.

And I'm just like, the chances of her getting caught are actually quite high. Well, she, she negotiated it with him. She said, he, she actually said, he says, how much, he says, give me a 12 minute head start. And then he says, is that enough? Yeah. Yeah. So there was at least, because we're still watching the, there was at least, he's

to the point to where he has some sort of concern for his compatriots in this fight. No, it's there, but even when he's like with the slap dicks on the planet, you can see how he's like slowly like sewing chaos where I, to your point, I was a little annoyed. I'm like, dog, this is almost a different TV show. It's very comical. But the way like Cassing is talking to them being like, hey, yo. You need water.

There's raining. You got to. Yeah. But even before, like, the guy who has a gun on him, the big dude, he's like, hey, yo. You know what he realizes about them, though? They're dangerous. Oh, yeah. Because they're so incompetent that they're.

that they're dangerous. So he starts looking around and going, no, who's in charge? He peeps it very soon that if he doesn't find his way out of that, he's going to end up accidentally or purposefully dead. But he was like, y'all should set a perimeter. And then one of the dudes was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I was thinking about that already. Right.

I was just like, you can't even, like, begin to talk shit because then somebody's going to have a gun on him. Because, all right, all right, I can't talk my way out of this. I just got to figure a way to just, like, catch somebody slipping at the, the right time, which is exactly what he does. And I think what I've loved about all the three of these episodes, and I could talk about that first scene when he's just literally trying to steal that ship and convince somebody else that doing the first bad thing that they've ever done in their life is the right thing. Not only because he thinks that it is right, but it's exactly what he needs at that very

moment, and he's probably been holding out for, like, months to get a taste of that ship and fly it out of there. This is why I've loved this show And I couldn't wait to get back into this world Because in microcosm, how good Gilroy is At giving stakes to somebody that we will only know for five minutes And then immediately pushing that away And then we're on a freight train of conviction

That is Diego Luna to try to just get off of a planet for two days To do one thing because he's so Not only is he completely adept at everything that he can do with the people that he's stuck on a planet for two days. He's yelling at his code talker when he's finally back on this ship being like, did you know that I wasn't trained to fly this? Do you even know what ship that I'm bringing in? Where am I supposed to go?

Our guy's been dead for three days. Did you know that? He's yelling at everybody else because he's the only person that's actually able to do this. And when you're alone for that long, he's been clearly like strung out by the time that he actually gets back to Bix and the people that he really trusts and fucks with, they're completely distraught. He's got to, like, band all of those things together.

It was like a raucous first three episodes. Can I ask this? Was the purpose of these first three episodes to kind of show how strained the rebellion is? Because I get the set, like, even Luton, how much he's just like, you know, have you heard from Cassian? Have you heard from Cassian?

It seems like they don't have that many people who are that good at this. Because I got the sense that when he crashlands, they kill Porco, but he realizes, oh, we've been assisting you. Like, we're both from different parts of the rebellion. You're just from a strand that is like, the idiots. And they don't even that. It's just they don't even know.

They clearly don't have an objective. They don't have an organization. So the part you're talking about, the rebellion being in disarray. I think that's the theme of the three episodes. obviously Cassian they have that whole like little civil war in the jungle Mon Mothma with Tay and Skolden right with Luthin like that I'm like we're going to talk about it more later but I really love that part because Luton is so ruthless Ruther's looking like Tate like he kind of feels like he mom mom looks at Luton when he

arrives like damn not this dude is like no no no I need to be held accountable now I can't just be like hands off the wheel. It's nuts. Tay, like, Lee's like, eh, Taye looking a little shaky. All Tay was like, I might need a little bit more break. It's like, ah, that's enough. Get that guy out of there.

Yep. And then you go to Ferrex or not Therick, the people that we met on Ferrex in season one. And they're kind of just like, I mean, life's not the worst. But when the rebellion or when the Imperials are like always something around, you never feel safe, right?

You always have to, oh, we got to get these fake key cards or whatever. The rebellion, as we know right now, is in complete shambles. And so this was a great three episodes of less. So, like, this is not the rebellion that we fall in love with in the first trilogy. This is not the rebellion we see in Rogue One. These are just a bunch of people with like a chicken without a head just running around making things happen. We'll get to Tay later because I have a perfect comp for who I think Tay is.

For who Tay is. I have a perfect comp for Tay from another. gigantic movie but stay on Cassian for one last time before we go. Okay, so you know that Cassian is going to escape the slap dicks. By the way, just to let you know, I hated them. They were so funny though.

They annoyed the shit. They were so funny. There's nothing that I hate. They were slightly plucky. There's nothing that I hate more than dangerous idiots. Yeah. I hate dangerous idiots.

Wherever you go, just like, dangerous idiots. But I will say that to finish off like kind of where Cassian is. There are two things that got me. Number one, when we first see him and then when we last see him.

Okay. I'm always fascinated and I wonder whether or not Gilroy knows what he's doing with Star Wars lore when he's doing it. As soon as Cassian got into the tie fighter, I thought about, I'm always going backwards. I'm sorry guys. I thought about

Anakin Skywalker getting into the ship in Phantom Minis. Okay. Anakin, he shoots a couple of times, and then he flies the ship and becomes like the hero right away. Because there's something innate inside of him that makes him just more talented than everybody else. We watch Cassian. Fumble around and fuck around with that ship, shooting the fucking people up. He's going backwards.

He's going forward. By the way, that ship is incredibly durable. Yeah. It didn't blow up inside of the thing. and then they were shooting that bitch and it was a very durable ship, right? And then when he flies out, he crashes it again.

And we watch his learning curve, learning how to fly it, and it makes the chase more exhilarating because there's a chance that he can crash. Which changes the calculus. When you know that there's a chance, you know that Cass and Andrews going to survive that,

but there's a chance that he can crash. That little hint of stakes just completely changes the scene. I thought the judge's position with the beginning of the episode with him talking to her about what it means to be rebellion, being so confident, being so prepared, like, yo, you got this, don't worry. Don't let your fear control. Your fear is what gives you power over them, right? Boom.

Then he gets in the plane. Looks like a complete idiot. He hasn't quite figured it out yet. He's got some things down, right? But he quite hasn't got the spy escape. in part of it figured out. I thought that was like a little fun juxtaposition. Like, he's not quite the andor that we know in Rogue One just quite yet.

Now, when he swoops in at the end, deadly confident, he actually shoots the grainhold to fall on top of the stormtroopers. It is literally one of the more heroic scenes I've seen in Star Wars in recent. Well, the heartbreaking thing is like over these three episodes, Cassian, it was. was feeling like he has this like Han, he's starting to have this like Han solo heroic swagger to him. And I'm just like, oh, this is all going to get destroyed by the end. We know what happens in Rogue One. And it's like we already see the first domino fall when Brasso dies where I'm just like, oh, it doesn't matter how good Cassian is at this job. It can't save anyone, everyone. And I think

that this episode did such a good job. Like Cassian comes back looking so cool. But you could already see like just the weight of the rebellion, the weight of him being so good at this, is starting like to chip away, chip away at him. You're right. Which brings me to the Phoenix crew. That reminded me of Battlestar Galactica. Hell yeah. When you're watching Balasar Galatica and they're running away from the fucking

sidelines and like they're jumping one thing before and they just, it's so hopeless, the empire seems inevitable. The Phoenix crew is my poor baby, my baby be too evil. They're there, but they know that the empire is coming. And the empire means them no good. Now, we'll even know how sinister the empire actually is because that guy doesn't just come to capture Biggs. He actually comes to assault her as well. They just take whatever it is that they want and they can only stay one step.

up ahead of them to maintain that tension and that story for three episodes where nothing actually really happens, which is fantastic storytelling. I think nothing happens. I'm saying nothing happens. I mean, I mean, there's no, there's not, there's no combat. There's no, I mean, when I say nothing happens, I mean, nothing that is visual eye candy happens to the end of it. The way that those characters feel more and more embedded in their circumstance by the third

episode only to have all of those things upended is now classic and door. Because in all of these three episode chunks we've had set up, set up, great exposition and great kind of finale set piece that isn't exactly even like that raucous or visual eye candy, sometimes it is, but shooting a grain tower and being a hero to save the day, while not exactly like the most visual like stupendous thing that we've ever seen. It is the,

it's an amazing payoff for a season one start. And in episode two, when we see Bix just like kind of accosted by this imperial soldier, that's just like the most tense and uncomfortable interaction you can ever see,

not only being a perfect example of like, the kind of laissez-faire mentality of what the empire is to the like planets that it occupations that it occupies, that it just kind of like passively glances at it, takes interest to it, and thinks about taking something. Applying that to a third episode of like a person that is only concerned about finishing an objective and then all of the things that mean something to him are taken away more and more and

now all he has is an objective, I keep thinking about the last time that we see Cassian in Rogue One and the straight line that is, excuse me, is clearly being drawn from all of that mentality that's currently happening to him. It's a brilliant way to still propel this. To know that at the end of these three episodes, we're probably going to time jump another year, two, to something else?

What is the... He said that they're jumping how many years in between each three episode, Chuck? A year. Chuck, do you think that if it was worth hiding from the empire, you could be like a... You farm the grain? Would you be...

How the Phoenix crew is farming the grain. What's life like as a grain farmer? Here's a thing. I hate to be this person, but... No, you don't. No, you don't. I don't know what you're saying? I'll say it.

I'll go for my nigger Will, because I'm just like, hey, yo, the farm girl coming to, like, give me some water. You know what I'm saying? We doing googly eyes at each other. I'm the nigger who's, like, fucking up the whole shit, right? I'm like, damn! Where will at? I knew immediately what's that farm girl.

Like, Biggs was like, hey, yo, your girl's here. I'm just like, he about to fuck it up for everyone. I do it. Not only that, when they're at the end of episode three, he's like, baby, I'm going to come back. You never say that. You will never say that. You will never say that. You'll never say that.

It's over. I'll do my best. Say goodbye. Poor B2 emo just wants to be reunited with Cassie and it just never seems to happen. Here's the thing. I literally want to cry every single time I see B2 emo because he's so anxious. And it's like they're treating him like a little anxious puppy

but they're like, don't tell. Don't tell it. Like the day. I love you, Bose me. We can pose me again. All right, Mom Mothma. This wedding is a lot. A lot.

A lot going on. A lot bigger. So it's a three-day wedding that they have on Chandrilla. And she's a bearing. It's an African wedding, really, man. It was going on. Oh, man. Well, we don't do hikes, but you know what I'm saying?

like a whole bunch of festivities, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Do they do that weird stick thing? We don't do it. Africans play with sticks. No. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.

Oh. Oh. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Wow. That stick thing. Whoa. That stick thing. You were watching the app. It's like crazy. Weird stick thing. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Crazy. Jorm.

Jomi. Jomi, would you like to continue talking about. I don't. I don't feel safe. I don't feel safe. I can say it. No race. No race. No race. I don't even know who the they is. Exactly. So the, but the wedding is, everybody's in our own little perfect pressure cooker. Yeah. Cassian's captured. They have the empire coming after them. And Monmouthma, what's more, what could be more pressure filled than having to run point on your daughter's wedding while also being undercover as?

an agent of the rebellion watching all of those things happen. And literally on a planet where they can't basically communicate with anyone. So Luther is going insane. He's just like... Well, Kayla is way worse. Luther's like, let's do what we got to do.

It's not ideal, obviously, right? But Kayla's like, I can't work here. I can't do this. I need to be on the phones. I love her. She's just like, yo. I need to get out of here. Back to the best place. Her and Val keep making

googly eyes at each other, man. They need to chill out. There's something happening. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So she's, is there a love triangle between who are the three love triangle? There's a... Val, Senta, and Kayla.

And Kayla? Yeah. Could be. Because could be. There was some... There was a little... Between Val and Kayla, there was a little... It's giving enemies to lovers.

Well, here's the thing, Sinta also in the third episode, like, Sinta knows she a bad bitch. Because she looks back like, Hey, what do you want to do? I'll see you later. She was like, If Senta wanted to be here, she'd be here.

Well, remember, Cint's whole thing is the mission comes first. Right? I do like you. It's cool. But I got a job to do. And I'm going to take president over everything. Also, if she wanted to, she would. Kind of a mentality.

At least Senta gave her to look, though. Because I thought that Senta was just going to play it straight up with T. Yeah, he's like, okay. Speaking of that, Tay. You know who Tay is? Okay, who's Tate? Tay is Mory from Goodfellas. Mm-hmm.

Morrie. Oh, we're playing his hand. But Tay is Mory from Goodfellellellis. The whole time I was watching, so Mori, if you guys haven't seen Goodfellas before, uh, Mori is a wick guy who helped them scout out the Latanza Heights, right? And he, he's asking for his money from Jimmy. And the whole time he's asking for his money from Jimmy,

Jimmy the Jep played by Robert De Niro, you're watching a movie and you're thinking, shut the fuck up. Yeah. Like, Jimmy is a fucking thug. and he sees mission accomplishment in his future, and you are going to get yourself killed by bothering this guy about money, wait until the money comes, shut the fuck up.

And the entire time that Tay is talking, he's talking about money, he's getting drunk, he's doing the same thing that more he was doing. He's talking to scolding a lot. Talking to scolding a lot. He's doing the same thing. He's dropping little hints that he needs a meeting, that there could be dissension, that he might go to somebody else,

I'm like, he's dead. Yeah. He must die. I thought he was like, even Maude's husband was just like, like, get your miss. Like,

come on, in that first episode, we're just like, oh, so this is your side piece. Yeah, it's like, no, will you shut up?

So all of that stuff's happening at the wedding at the same time. And it seems like the point of the wedding was to show that the brain trust of the rebellion is a little decentralized.

Yeah. Like there's no guy in the chair right now and all it really takes is something to distract them to kind of have them a little bit frazzled. Well, I think even with Mon Mothma, I think the point of the wedding was also to show that she doesn't have the heart for this yet

where she's not the Monde Mothma we know where she's trying to have her cake and eat it too, where she knows. that she's arranging a political marriage for her daughter. And that's the right thing for the rebellion. That's the right thing, like, for their, just in terms of what she needs to get done. And she can't do it. She breaks down.

She's like, hey, yo, you don't have to get married. And her daughter's like, are you fucking crazy. Like, that was, that was such a heartbreaking. I wish you were drunk was crazy. That was so sad. Like, Luther is just like, you know what we're going to have to do with Tay. And she's, she's not ready to pull the trigger yet. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, you're not ruthless enough. to lead the rebellion. We still have steps to get you there. So she hasn't quite been radicalized in the same way we've seen Cassie and radicalized. Not quite yet. Has Mon Mothema ever had to kill it? No.

And that's kind of not her deal. However, what her deal is is to be the flashpoint for the rebellion and it's clear that she's not quite comfortable to your point being that just yet. Do you think Mon Mothema gets her hands dirty at all in this season? I don't know. I mean, she's getting her hands dirty.

Here's the thing, the fact that she knows, the fact she knows Tays going to get killed is like, that's why she gets drunk because she's just like, she's not stopping it. She knows what's going to happen. That was listening to Martin Garrick's in there and just throwing back drinks out of glass. I was like, hey. I was going to say, there were a couple, you know, every season of TV has some, like, kinks to work out. And I was just like, dog, why they play in fucking Skirlax? That's a tough one. That's a tough one.

At the. I was wondering about that. So a lot of the Star Wars music that we've heard being played before is, what's it called Jiz? Jiz jazz? It's called Jiz. Yeah. It's called Jiz.

That's Canada. All right. The guys in the canteen, what, the canteen? They're called Jis Whalers. Be boo bitty-bo do do. Yeah. I didn't name him. Look, look, because if I say something, then it's going to be Van is a gooner.

And so it's already a gooner. So we don't like, yeah. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to say anything. I thought the interesting thing about the Moth Mama stuff in these three episodes was almost every conversation. Mothma. Mothama. Go ahead. Mothma.

Mothma. Every single kind of, like, almost every single conversation she had was kind of like a wink and a nod to something else. Because Tate would come in and be like, yeah, man, this place looking nice, man. It's real cool, man. Imagine if, you know, we could share that wealth or something over there. It's an ice team. Luther's coming out. You know, like.

Lutham is like, is this. Dude, like, are you... No, I mean, she's talking about Luther. Luth is like... Ice Cube, they, Jerry Heller, and EZE is eating, like, fucking fettuccini and shrimp, champagne and ice cube come through with the fat burger. Must be nice. Must be nice.

That's Tate. All Tate was doing was making trouble. Making trouble. Luthing comes in, like, when they first talked, it's like, wow, what a surprise. It's like, yeah, you know, you can't avoid these things. Like, every conversation with subtext for what's actually going on with the money. with the rebellion, the whole thing. I get why my momfantam was like,

hey, let me get these shots, bro. This is too much. Yeah, she was, that, I feel like the scene of her dancing and the scene of her drinking was symbolic because there will be something that happens sooner rather than later

that will completely necessitate Mon Mothma throwing off any heirs or pretensions about who she actually is. She will actually, there will be something that incites her that will actually make her confront the entire apparatus of the empire. And at the point that she just lets go, she actually relaxes. It was almost as if she was falling into something, even symbolically right there. She had an arc, a very distinct arc.

Only second to Cassians, as far as I'm concerned, in these three episodes that by the end. There was something also that her husband was saying to the other father where he was kind of like, does your son even know what he's getting into in terms of like the type of women that this family has, which is just like, I think that was a scene where he was talking about Monmouth where she's a leader,

not only does she wear the pants, but she's ruthless. And I don't think Mon Mothema always wants to admit it, but I'm like, oh, you're a killer. Like you're, there's a reason that you're going to, be the face and lead this rebellion. But to your point, there's that symbolic moment where she's dancing where I'm like, oh, you're warring. You want to be the senator.

You want to be this person who's like fighting for the greater good, but you don't want to get your hands dirty. You want everybody to be safe. And I'm like, you can't have it both ways. And when I... She has to be, right? She has to be, right? Because she has to be...

Her job is like all espionage. So the question is, she has to be that person that puts a clean face on it and argues in the Senate and all of that. You need a face. Will she be able to be, to your point, for a long time? The answer is probably not. Yeah.

And that's what I meant when I said getting her hands right. I don't think that she's going to actually physically hold a pistol to somebody or pull the trigger so much so. But to know that she will be the face of the rebellion in formality as well. To know that when we see her in Rogue One, she's going to be in that bunker giving orders and actually making those hard decisions to orchestrate an entire flow chart of not only military operations,

but rebellious sentiment. Right now she's still trying to just be the smiling face that can hopefully just wrangle a couple of spies hoping that a job gets done. And now come the end of this, she's like, well, fuck, I've got to actually just put my... Like, I got to show my whole ass in front of the Senate and everybody and my family, my husband, my daughter,

all of these things to just... just be like, she got to show her ass in front of her head too. They be thick. Yeah. Whoa. Whoa.

Whoa. It wasn't lost on me. That Chandraela is like a whole planet of redheads. Me like. Okay. Redheads be thick. Y'all never notice that redheads be thick? They be thick.

So I thought like. Wait, wait, wait. No, no, no. Are we talking? Every redhead? Not every redhead, but like. I don't know. I'm sure.

A lot of redheads. I wasn't watching the banshees. and shearing and notice that everybody was thick. Google that. Google that. Red heads be thick a lot of times. Am I making this up in my head? There's Christina Hendricks.

Yeah, she thick. Thick. Bryce Dallas Howard? Dick. Like redheads are, they be, they be a little thick. They be, they're somebody. I'm telling you, there's a connection between. Was Will's home girl thick?

Who? Will, the farm girl? She was right. She was kind of, I could see the vision. I'm telling you. I'm not making this up in my mind, y'all. I'm telling you, y'all, there's a connection between redheads and thickness. She wasn't even a redhead, though, but in the beginning, like, home girl who was, like, going to the tie fight, I was like, damn.

I like her to. I like her. Wait, the first? I was like, I was just like, that can't be a white woman. And then I started a bad. She's doing a thing. She's doing a thing. Whatever.

Whatever. Whatever. It's fine. Let's get back to it. The Midnight Boys is never going to get to the place we need to get to unless you all. Guys. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess.

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Let's just get back to the pot. We were talking about how the rebellion is in disarray, but Krenick, Deidre, everything that's going on in that planet when they're talking about Gorman, is the empire doing that well? I think so. No, because if you think about it, I think the empire, even though they're becoming more powerful,

they have to go to an outer rim planet to get green. You know what I'm saying? Like, Krenik is like, we need this cow kite so bad. I think, well, the Calcite, I mean, so the thing about Crenic, who I love to see again, you know, going to build a Star Wars, mate, I love it. They need the Calcite specifically because I assume that star stuff, right? Yeah. And so it only, they have the spiders, which is supposed to be there, the Gorman's one true necessity

or the thing that is the most unique thing about the planet, but it's not. It's the Calcite. The problem is, mining the Calcite would destroy the planet. and the people probably won't go for that. So you have to figure out a way to get these people either off the planet or kill them or whatever to get the Calcutte for the Death Star.

That's the planet. It's not really like the Empire's fault as much as it's just like... I mean, it's the Empire's fault. But I think the question is being asked, first of all, if you're going to do an exposition dump, that's how you exposition to go. That's a great way to do it.

All right? Don't like, because he's been responsible for a couple of, exposition dumps, I still won't forgive the expedition dump in the dark night rises where it was like, oh, you mean the clean slate? I won't forgive you. The clean slate, okay. But if you're going to exposition dump, that's how you do it.

Yeah, right? Move the plot forward. However, there is something to be said about the empire and us getting an inside look on both the economic and the propaganda arms of the empire. So what you have is the

empire that is trying to figure out how to harness the wealth of the galaxy. Remember, they're doing something new. They're forcing. This is not trade. This is not cooperation. This is tyranny. This is oppression. So they want to force

people to do it. However, they still have to mitigate the chance of rebellion. So they don't want to just jackboot everything. They're not quite there yet. They don't have the Death Star. The Death Star was going to be the

mode by which the empire said, do what the fuck we tell you to do or you're dead. It's their atomic power. It's their atomic power, right? So in this case, what you see is them saying, hey, we have to have this planet. This planet is a people, is a planet of people that, number one, is well liked by the rest of the galaxy. And prideful. Prideful makes beautiful things.

We've got to take them. So we have to ruin their reputation. Yeah. So the empire is showing weakness for sure. showing weakness in that they can't just do what they would want to do, they have to sort of trick them out of their position. And this was like, it was too real watching those two guys go like, all right, here's what we do.

You know, it's, again, they don't have social media out there, but basically like we go on Twitter, we get bots. We have people so, like, talk about how bad the Gorman's are, this and that, and the rebellions and this and that, and people will come to hate the Gorman's, then we could come in to act like, we're trying to save the planet and we can get our stuff.

I was like, that's, that's, that's, that's, well, here's the thing. That whole part,

I was just like, I was like, this is goofy as fuck because I was like, I'm like, are you guys just pitching like the galaxy's Andrew Tate to like get on? Well,

it's kind of, you know what I was. It's a brain, commentary on like what you do. Yeah. No, and but here's the thing. What I thought was brilliant about this,

I was like, damn, those two guys, this whole thing is goofy as hell that Dider rolls up up on credit. It's just like, a yo, that player you got,

fuck all that shit, we actually need to sew dissension, we need to get some people in the rebels who are going to be able to do what we need to do when it's time on Gorman, which is why I think Dider is there because she's been disgraced after everything that happened on Phoenix, but I think what Crenick

realizes in her is that whatever happens on Gorman, he needs people who are willing to do what needs to be done, which is essentially a mass. They're basically saying, we need somebody who was going to turn a eye when we kill everybody on this planet. I'm not going to lie to you.

I forgot she was in this show. Deirdre? Yeah. And so when they panned over to her on the table, I was like, oh, man. Oh, my God. She might be one of my favorite characters in this show. I felt for Diedra. No, I felt for her in this one because they're going to have,

they're basically insinuating that they're going to kill around 800,000 people. Yeah. And she doesn't want to do it. Mm-hmm. Like, either she does. doesn't want to do it or she doesn't want to do it in the way that they're saying to do it. She actually says, I don't want this mission. Tell them I don't want to do it.

And, you know, she gets told basically, you have to. You have to do it. I find that incredibly, like, compelling because I was literally talking about this to Chuck before. I was like, did I miss something? Or I was like, why does Krenig take a shine to her knowing that she fucked up Farrex last season so bad? Like, why would she even be invited to this project, let alone. valued for her insight. And the inside of, like, knowing that, like, a rebellion kind of fucked her over

on Farrix and that she would kind of want to lick back from that. It's because she's in a weakened position. Exactly. And that's the fact that she's kind of being exploited by that embarrassment to want to, like, kind of make good on this, to, like, have her boss be like, no, this is a gift. Take it. Because you can actually prove yourself. It's going to seem like a demotion.

Yeah, but it's not. I also think the interesting thing. and I just thought about this now is that because we have the whole thing with Cyril and Deidra which is gross by the way I love them.

I love them together. They're both gross people. But I am wondering what his purpose in the show is. Here's what it is. I think it's to humanize Deidre a little bit so that when she's like, actually, I don't want to kill all these people on this planet.

We're like, oh, because you have Cyril at home, you have something to lose. In season one, her whole thing was, I have to go do this. She was torturing everybody, just a terrible terrible human being. She was willing to do whatever it took to get to her mission, right? Now she's got

somebody at home, Cyril, come home to, you know, we brought the mom over, and she was like, hey, he's going to call you every week, visits twice a month, but all of that depends on how you treat me, how you treat him, all right? It goes up and down. Would you like, would you

your girl talk to your mom like that? Probably not. Probably not. But like, hey, guys, we got to come to a peaceful resolution. I'll tell you, I'll tell you y'all something. It's going to be real with you. You got to get to a point and then you got to stay out of it. I know it's right.

I know. That's the mind your business protocol. So this is what happens. No, but that is going to be like, hey, hey, man, what you think? This is what happens. This is what happens. And this is what happens. You talk to, you talk.

talk to your girl, you talk to your mom. Yeah. You say, hey, this is the way I expect my mom to be treated. Hey, this is the way I expect my girl to be treated. And then after that, y'all guys say I know. It's between now. Because you get to a certain point. First of all, if you don't want to invite, you want to invite your mom into the problems that you have.

Never tell your mom when you're in a fight with your girl because you and your girl will get over and your mom will remember it forever. Yeah. But like, but when they do, when it's, when it's a thing that they have to work out, telling you, either you're going to be you, there's nothing you can do. Either you're going to be a mama's boy to her, or you're going to be, you love that bitch more than you, then you love your mama. So you end up, you talk to both of them, and then you go, either y'all figure it out or we can't be, we can't go on no vacations.

And nobody goes to Angola. I'm serious. Nobody goes. Nobody goes. I'll go by myself. If y'all don't figure it out, nobody goes anywhere. Because I played a fucking game. You know what I'm saying?

So that's what you got to do. I'm telling you. I scream laughed when it cut from them having that conversation to Cyril just like on the bed. I was a die. That was nearly crying. That was funny as hell. That was so incredible. But also Cyril being like having to talk to the newer crew.

Yeah. I came up to boo. He's like, yo, I used to sit over there and a guy was like, oh, don't, don't keep looking at me. I was tired. Yeah, I came up out here, man. You start from the bottom, man. You know, you're working a little hard. You get to where I'm at, middle management.

This, to me, is Gilroy flexing at how good he is at this shit in the third episode of the second season of Andor. To know that, like, to know that Andor, like, saving the day and being the big hero also is counteracted with a man, his wife and his mom arguing at a dinner table. and that being equally as compelling is just incredible stuff. Like, I loved this. So I want to talk about one scene in particular because I don't know that I've ever seen anything like this

in a Star Wars movie or television show, which is obviously the attempted assault on Bix. I don't know if I've ever seen Star Wars. I mean, obviously in Jedi, there is, you know, Princess Leia and what she's forced to wear, and she's got literally a chain around her neck. But, you know, in watching that scene, knowing that the empire represents the most oppressive, the most maniacal and tyrical and tyrannical regime in the galaxy,

some of that stuff would be happening. You know, some of that stuff would be happening. That stuff happens in conflict. It happens in war. And it's something that has never really been expressed, at least that I can see, like on screen. but it obviously very, very, very difficult to watch. Yeah.

But seemed like a very distinct choice to even further, yeah, further push us into what it is that we're up against and bring us out of a galaxy far, far away and into some of the horrors of the world that we actually occupy here. So I was so, I could tell that that was by episode two, obviously you can kind of tell that that's where it was going. And I think what made me nervous initially is I think that the history of Hollywood and especially

just I think it is an easy, cheap, disgusting code that a lot of writers and a lot of male writers do, which is like, how do I put a female character in the most peril? Well, right. Yeah, of course. But what I think Tony and company managed to do that I think, thought was really powerful is that, A, to your point, they're showing for the first time. And I think it is when Bix essentially tells the other imperial guy, he's like, you killed him. He's like, he tried to rape me. Is that, no, the empire, if we are going to make a show, a mature show about

war, we have to show just how evil, how evil totalitarianism is. And it's like, they're not just pillaging. They're raping. Like, this is, this is all, you. one nasty giant thing. And I think what they managed to do was Bix the entire time, she has PTSD and she's like, where's Cassian, where's Cassian, but Cassian doesn't really save her. She takes matters into her own hands.

She does, right? Because you're like, oh, and it's this arc where I think a lot of lesser shows wouldn't have picked up on, yo, Bix was just tortured a year ago. She's still fighting that inner battle. By the end of episode three, she's not better, but she is at a point where it's like, oh, she's a leader.

She's telling Will, you didn't clean this. She's like, she's telling other people like, why are we doing this like that? She's looking up at the ship knowing how dangerous the empire is. And I think that the team, like, I got very nervous, but I was like, okay, like, I think that this was purposeful. And if you're going to tell a story about a fictional war, this is what war is since the start of mankind. Yeah, I think the thing that made the biggest impression on me was, again, she's like Cassie and Cassie and Cassie and Casson but in that moment Cassie is not there

she saves herself right she uses the hammer she kills that guy and I think that is the thing that I was like okay she did it herself and she knew that there would be a cost yeah there's no man to come save her she handled that herself I think that's the thing that like when I see that scene I'm like I understand

I mean but there's a brutality to it and a desperation to that scene that, you know, they could have played it differently, but they didn't. And we're watching this on Disney Plus, man. And I was actually shocked. I won't say it's a brave thing to put that in the same universe where all of this heroism and lightheartedness

and like family-friendly, fun time universe is from. But a show that operates like this that has like the kind of determination to tackle themes that go to very dark places, that we don't even really understand the stakes of which, because this is in the same world where people are running around with laser swords, those things can still hit very home,

and whether or not we think that they're necessary, they can be very, very impactful for showing where a character is and where we see ourselves in those people. To not exactly think of the desperation that a character is in and still see something like that, handled very well and like impactfully for sure. As uncomfortable as I was, I was like, wow, this is really something that is,

that I didn't think Star Wars could do and come out of it being like, wow, I think that we kind of just evolved the level of storytelling that this property is able to do. And it has been doing it probably since its inception. One way out was that it feels like this three episode arc was that too, and it's kind of nowhere but up from here. Like, I am very impressed with the level of themes that it can show not only with family and self-determination and self-actualization on the level of Bix, but to know that she's still got to go on and carry everything that happened to her from season

one onward is really, really harrowing. And this was a very good example of that. I mean, also, I was good. Oh. To Vance point, like, you have to show how bad the empire is. And I think season one in these first year episodes

are just like, these are the worst people ever. This is the worst group of people. Like, it's, yeah, be one thing to just like say it or, but showing it.

And in some kinds, and in some ways to not handle that well is a bit of a cheat code and crass way to do that. You could, yeah, they could do it poorly, but I think Tony Garoy has

such a handle of the material and what the story's trying to tell. So, again, watching that scene, it's very, very uncomfortable. But it's like, this is what people, like, empires do. This is people who think that they're above everything. This is what they do. I was going to say what I think the three episodes actually do really, really well, is that the three main storylines that have to do with women,

they are all making a very similar choice. Where it's like you have Mon Mothma who not only has to make a choice of, am I going to let this guy basically loot and kill this guy? But also, I'm marrying my daughter off for a political marriage that I know is a sham. You have Deidra, who as we were talking about is like, if I accept this job, I'm going to be one of the figureheads that's responsible for killing 800,000 people. And then you have Bix who, while she's definitely not part of the empire, no stretch of the imaginary. Like, she's not, she's not necessarily a rebel. You know what I mean?

and she has to make this choice of when push comes to shove, am I going to kill an imperial officer not only to protect myself, but to protect my family? And I was just like, oh, that is actually how you do this,

where I think Star Wars for a long time just did not have a lot of great women character at the forefront and to have three women character in this that are all making a similar decision and all go about it in different ways. I was just like, oh, That's phenomenal writing.

So everybody pick a knit. I'll go first. Okay. But before we do that. What? Really quick. Let's go to an ad break. And when we turn, when we come back,

Van is going to walk us through maybe some nitpicks that we had with the first three episodes. Okay. It worked for narrative purposes, but I fucking just like really could not stand the, the Maya's crew on the... I hate them. They were bothering the shit out of me

and it was super bold to take Cassian essentially off the board for the first two episodes. For the first two episodes for the first two episodes and there was a point where I was wondering

like is that going to work? It did. It did. But those groups of, that group of characters to me I just, I was annoyed being with them as much as I had to be with them. There was, to your point when I was watching that,

not only was I annoyed, it felt like a different show. Like almost like the comedy of it, the hokeyness of it, the pluckiness of it. There was a moment where I'm like, I get what you're doing, but it just,

they ended up landing the plane, but I was like, what? Yeah, and I think it only works for me if it's in that third episode when he's like absolutely furious at how disorganized and fucking up it is because he's like I like we're as annoyed as he is by being maroon for two days with a bunch of idiots for sure that don't know what the fuck they're doing and then by the time that he gets

off of that planet he's absolutely enraged by the fact that he's lost three days and was just like like basically like stranded for months to do one thing and then he was stopped by these assholes he's dumbies yeah like I get it because like now we need a flow chart this guy can't operate or do his job if this is what we're working with. Yeah. It's just how, like, you know, businesses work, right? Yeah.

One guy doesn't get his job done, how's the other guy? My nitpick, it's really, really small. It's really tiny, but I got to see Brazzlesa get shot, man. Yeah. Because the last time we see him, he's ducking the lasers. I'm like, all right, my guy good. And then we look up and he's gone.

I'm like, yo. But you do see the one story trooper. Right. I see him, but I'm just thinking like, oh, he just shoot. You know what I mean? Like, you just, you know what I'm? I'm like, oh, that's a cool shot.

That looks cool. Yeah, yeah. But even think about how Tony, Tony Gilroy is playing with our expectations because it's a joke in the Mandalorian that the Storm Troopers always miss. So we're conditioned to think that Brasso gets away. So when we realize like, oh, one of the blasters actually got him, we're not used. Like, we're literally not used to that in Star Wars. Yeah, not like an actual nitpick, but I was just like, I'm thinking like, oh, man, he might have just hit the speeder. my man good gets down there

Brazos man, wake up, Brazos, we gotta go. You gotta go, bro, bro, I'm like, no. And then they go back to the tie fighter and he looks at a Bix, hey, where's Brazos? Just like, didn't make it. Bro. What the Brazo? Y'all, any nitpicks?

My nitpick is just the Mon Mothman dancing was kind of core. Because here's the thing. She was bumping at a lot of them, man. White women in movies always do that shit once they, like, get over their divorce. They're like, oh, I'm just like,

All right, come on. That's how they dance in real life. Don't know how to do with their arms. Yeah. Just me. It's all elbows. Yeah. You like that shit, though, don't you?

No, I mean, you guys... Listen, when we play Kelly Clarkson, you're going to be doing this. Oh, Kelly. Since you've been gone. Miss independent. Bro, she has, since you've been gone, breakaway and I forget the term. The breakaway is crazy. No, no, no.

She got like three, like... She's got hits, bro. In a row on her first time. I was like, yo. Who is the queen of... white girl anthems Celine Dion Anna

Nah nah Right All right Anthens White girl anthems Madonna got some Madonna got some anthems So Kelly Clarkson

Is up there Yep Vanessa Carlton got an anthem Vanessa Carlton got an anthem Vanessa Carlton Avril Levine Avril Avivine got a couple Anthems

Fucking Pyramore Haley Williams Oh yeah No but You're not talking about race We love That's cross the race on this side, because

Haley Williams is a rare white girl who got a little soul when she kind of like, she got a little bit in the voice. I like Kelly Clarkson as like just a white woman because here's the thing,

just since you've been gone, I sometimes I'd just be crying in the, in the car. Katie Perry? Katie Perry. Oh, but here's the thing,

are we going to be honest. Katie Perry's peak is one of the highest peaks. Oh, it's so weird. Oh, my God. Fall off is bad. Fall off's crazy. Yeah.

Ket you. Um, Y'all, y'all, y'all, there's a lot of Dr. Luke in this conversation. Anyway. Oh, what? Okay. It's a lot of Dr. Luke. Okay.

Jeez, man. Look ahead a little bit. I have four questions about my, I'm only going to ask two. Okay. Where are they at with the tie fighter? So, obviously, they're not going to be able to cruise around the galaxy forever and a stolen tie fighter. Right.

What's their destination? what's happening. Now, are we going to jump a year ahead in the next three episodes? I think so. If we're jumping a year ahead, because I was told by Arjuna, who fucking lied, that every single three episode tranche was going to be a year. Yes. That's what I definitely didn't happen because these three episodes took place over the course of... No, no. And then the next three will be another year. So we're not, we're not even probably going to know what happens after the tie fighter. It's just going to be the next year. Okay, so I literally thought that what they meant was the three episodes would cover the course of a year.

Oh, no, no, no. The three episodes are a year apart. Yeah. So that's interesting. Yeah. Because if the three episodes are a year apart, there is a shit ton of things left over from this that we are going to miss. Wait, when is the, when is the Gorman Massacre? Two B, B, B, B, Y.

And we are in four BD. So that means that the Gorman Massacre is happening in the middle of the season, then? Or near the 10th. tail end. No, no, no, because it starts at 4 BBY. If we're doing a year, the next three is three. Then the next one is two.

So. Then we have one baby Y. Then we're locked in. Then we're there. I think that this is more like with these three episode tranches, this is probably likely going to be just capturing like a slice of life time and place of the rebellion to where like, okay, they're clearly very disorganized, but they have a lot of people that are willing to activate and like get their shit together.

and where we leave off at the end of this third episode is them just kind of marooned at the end in like shoved into one tie fighter like determined ready to do something mothma is like kind of getting there as far as being the leader that she's going to be luthan very very determined to get that flowchart going i think when we jump ahead another year or so maybe we see mon mothma like getting a little bit more grizzled, they're probably going to be doing another job, like Bix and and or and everybody else are just going to be together now, maybe. I'm interested to see where the progress of this imperial project is going to be a year in. What's the propaganda going to look like?

Is there going to be an insurgency that's going to be boiling? Are they going to be dealing with that? I like the idea that once we kind of just jump ahead and be like, oh yeah, that thing that happened a year ago when we were marooned, like that's going to be... I think it's going to be like succession where you don't know when things are.

happening. They're going to be talking. They should be talking. And they'll, and you'll, they'll let you in on it through action and dialogue. Are Bix and Cassian together? Because there was one line where essentially like Brasso is like, somebody's like, yo, Cassing is going to want to know that she's having nightmares again. And it seems like

maybe they're not a couple, but it seems like they have, their closeness is now. They had nightmares. I mean, my husband is away. I think she's referring to Casson. No, well, she could just be saying that. Maybe, yeah. I think she was saying, like, get a creep off her back. But yes, you're correct.

But when you picture who she's do you think she's talking about? Cassian. Yeah, Bix ain't making it out of this season because here's the thing. If I lost it. Like, we haven't seen like none of these motherfuckles

in the world. He's not making it to rush out of three. So here's the thing. I got to ask you. My one question is, I think all of us were a little bit like, oh, they're releasing three episodes out once. Shit, like we're not really going to

that's a lot of TV. We're not going to really get to marinate whatever. I honestly think the three episodes were, like dropping them all of them. That was a quick watch. Honestly, first of all,

they were a little shorter that I thought they were going to be. You're looking at around 42, 43 minutes of these episodes. And they moved. That shit goes. Quickly.

So I don't think that's that much of a problem either now. We also watch television for a living. Some of us sometimes. When we feel like it. But we also watch television for a living. So, you know, there are other people who will be at work and all that stuff like that.

Who knows if they have the time and the opportunity to access it the way that we did. But for me, I got through the three of them. I actually watched the last one over again. Like, I got to the three of them pretty quickly. I was also like, I did the lean-in meme the first episode. Once he gets into the tie fighter and, they start fighting his shit. And he's trying to maneuver his way out.

I was like, oh, shit, this is about to be a movie. And I think what I liked with the three episodes, I'm like, oh, it gives you that feeling of I'm watching just a 90-minute, two-hour movie, and I'm going to get another one where I feel like if I'm going back to the first season of Andor, sometimes, like, let's be honest. The second episode we watched was probably the weakest of the batch. But because we had the third one right after it, it didn't eat. That's what I was at.

Because if it goes weekly, you would. watched episode two, you kind of like, what was that? I was saying, it was too much time with the slap dicks. Yeah, he's just like, what's going on? So I think to your point, you're correct, and releasing the episodes of three matches. But, yeah, my fault. Yeah, my fault. Yeah, my fault

on you. Just making sure, Charles make the point. My question, and I was warning, this, it's kind of said, I'm not going to want to you. Where are the rebels, man? Like, I'm talking about, like, Canaan, Ezra, Sabine. Like, they're around. Yeah. At this point. And not,

I'll be very clear. I don't need them in the show. I don't need them. Actually, can you? What's going on? I don't need it. Oh, no. I have a thing.

What's going on at four? I just think it's funny. Uh-huh. That's why. And Cassian and them are doing their thing on this side. There's another cell on the other side of the galaxy with, uh, Kaden and Hela. Oh, my God. Caden and Sabine and Ezra.

Can I interject here? We have major events in four BBI from Star Wars. WikiFandom. After obtaining a khyber crystal from the Jedi Empire, Ezra Bridger constructs his first light saber. This is where Canaan Jaris is captured by Moff Tarkin. Oh. And the Grand Inquisitor is killed after a duel with Canaan Jaris. That all happens in 4BY.

So I'll be honest with you, there's all, I always wonder all kinds of stuff, like no mention of Leah, who is a major, major player in the rebellion. How old is she at this point? She's probably like teenager. Yeah, she's in her teens though. At 4BB. But by the time she was 17, 18, 19, well, she was like 19 in the first one.

And like by that point, she was already running missions for, yeah, she was in rebels, yeah, she was. Right. And then in Rogue 1. She was 15. Yeah, in Rogue 1, you know, they delivered the fucking plans to her. So she might be around.

If not her, certainly bail O'Gonna. Yeah, bail is for sure. Yeah, but anyway, obviously, we talked about it earlier the rebellion is not the most centrally organized thing right now. Yeah. So it's very possible

that Ghost Squadron is like operating with their own directives and their own funding and their own stuff. So like they... It feels like these circles are just getting closer and closer though. I feel like maybe I'm not expecting to see the rebels in

and or whatever, but like these entities are getting really close to interacting directly. Do you guys think that you need a Star Wars PhD for these first three episodes? Because there was a moment where I was like they are... Ghost crew. Like, it's possible

that Ghost crew is doing their own thing. Go ahead. It's fine. We got it. It's fine. It's all good. But there was a moment in this where I was like, God damn, like the lore on this is... I don't know. You don't know about the lore. I think they're going to get... I think they give you a lot of

backstory. Right. Yeah. But I think the lore is only heavy if you know where it's going because I think you can watch that and they give you enough to make you wonder what's going to happen. I'm not saying that this was a bad thing. It was almost something where I think, for a perfect example, we've been enjoyed, like the Daredevil season has been up and down, but we've enjoyed some parts of it,

other parts not as much. And like, I was like, oh, I think the thing that I've been missing from a lot of this stuff is the specificity where it's like you don't have to show us the fucking propaganda spider shit. Like, it doesn't really matter. but it But it But it

You kind of have to This is the brilliance Of like what Gilroy is doing Because I would say You don't need to be a lore expert But you absolutely should Rewatch the first season of Andor Before you start this

Because the way in which these characters Speak and like act around each other You need to know Kind of who all these people are Right from the jump Because it like All of that context is still carrying over But no

What I was going to say is like Because I don't like There's a lot of There's a lot of directors and TV writers who might write the spider propaganda scene and be like, yo, this is too long. We have to take it out. And instead, what Gilroy and company do is just like, no, like, this is going to seem goofy. This is going to, but like, it's going to teach you about the empire.

It's going to teach you about the late Diedra. Strategically things, it's going to be, we learn in that moment. Like, Krenick is like, he's even like, all right, that's enough guys. Where it's like, even he in that moment is smart enough to realize we need to. this propaganda arm, but I'm searching for something and the smartest person in this room is going to be the one that's able to tell me this isn't enough. And I'm like, oh, I was happy by the end of that storyline in that scene because I'm like, okay, I understand so much about where we are after a year and where we're going. And I feel like so much of nerd content

is afraid that that shit is going to scare us off. Like being patient with that building that world, really just being patient, being like, let's think about every single aspect of how this world works. So when it implodes, you feel something. Oh, go ahead. I just think it's interesting that you say that because Tony Gilbert is famously like all this Star Wars nonsense, hokey, pokey, like, who cares? Right?

I'm here to tell a story. Forget about all the magic swords and all the war and all that stuff. I'm just here to tell a grounded serious story about rebels in fighting a rebellion. And again, the magic of at least the first season, three episodes is that you still have the, oh, the Death Star, Crenic, all these little like, you know, I can, the things that pop. And yes, there is a lot of, there's a lot of, like, new stuff we're learning

every episode that they're throwing at us. But the thing that makes it all come together is that we can see real life in these stories. Again, with the propaganda, with the empire. These are things that we've been watching on TV. We've reading in books, singing media for years. None of it is brand new,

or the first time we're seeing it in a galaxy far, far away. And it's like, wow. Yeah. I don't see any scene that has those things that doesn't have nutrition with what the story is actually being served for. I don't know Gilroy's process

when it comes to his writing or what he wants to do creatively, but I could imagine easily where he's like, all right, I'm making a scene where I have all of these like emperors, bureaucrats wanting to talk about the propaganda of wanting to take over a planet. What's the planet I could use? What's their main resource?

Give me something that I can exploit from them. And then some Star Wars guru is like, oh, well, there's this planet. And they use the spiders. All that's straight from lower. Clearly. But everything that's happening with Gorman is straight. Exactly.

And the fact that Tony Gilroy doesn't exactly need to concern himself with the nuance of what all of those things and like unobtainable. that Star Wars has needs to be, but what makes that so important? Why are the people in that room? What do the people in that room want? Those are the things that he can play with that to actually make those things great. Honestly, if you ask me, the Gorman Massacre, which we're not going to get too deep into

explaining what that is to people, but if you ask me, the Gorman Massacre is the Red Wedding of Andor. It was the thing that when, that Star Wars fans know about, that when you are making Andor, it's the thing that you have to orient the entire show around because that's going to be the North Star narratively as to what actually forms the empire in the way that we know it to be formed. This is what happens the more durable

a galaxy or the lore or a story or universe, should I say is. You're watching the first three Star Wars movies, and you're so into the story that's in front of you, right? I am your father, Luke's Ark, Han and Leah, cool, Chubacca, all of that stuff. You watch it, you watch it, you watch it.

Then you get to a point in your life and you go, who's paying for all of this? Yep. Like, who's paying for it? Like, the rebels, who's paying for it? Like, how do they get funded? Yeah. Obviously, the empire, they're taxing people.

They're stealing resources. is whatever. But the rebels have secret based on Hoth. They have communications. They have ex-wings. They have the whole nine. Like, who's paying for it? Like, and then you start worrying about the economics of the galaxy, which essentially is what

the prequels were. The prequels were kind of, all right, let's get you guys into the nuts and bolts of the politics and economics of this galaxy that are the backdrop. for this huge clash between good and evil. You want to know what the prequels are to be? You're trying to pitch your

trade war movie. Yeah. They're like C-SPAN. Right. The three-in's like the wire where you're like, oh, we're, because like even he's cooking right now.

Yeah, it's true. It's a good point. The whole council scene reminded me of that, of the meeting in the wire where like, trigger bells and somebody's like, yo, are you taking notes?

No lot of crew. Yeah. You notice, like, Fronik is like, yo, you guys, your bosses will know about this when they need to know about this. This isn't on your calendars.

No notes. No notes or whatever. And what I realize in that moment is I'm just like, oh, we're used to an empire that's already built the Death Star and already killed a planet. We're learning where they're just like, yo, this is a meeting about committing some war crimes. A dude is like, hey, isn't there a better way to do this? Why don't we just kind of like introduce like a pandemic or some type of virus? They're like, hey, we already gamed it out.

this is the only way to do it. And I was like, I was so interested because I'm like, oh, the empire is still operating. Like, we just can't kill 800,000 people. They still need to seem somewhat, somewhat normal to a bunch of people so that they don't inspire the rebellion. The emperor still has promises. He's like, oh, I promise this to the goutes. Which is another reason why Monmouthma is actually a tool of the rebellion, but also. of the empire because

Mahathma's dissent in the Senate is seen by the empire as being useful to give the illusion of freedom open thought, discussion, and dissension. So, all of that stuff works until it goes too

far. And in every single rebellion, something happens where the shit goes too far. Here in the States, they danced around the Civil War to I mean, the compromise of 1850. For like 10, 15, 20 years, actually longer than that

until they just went, fuck it. Fort Sumter, maybe? We want to keep... I was going to go race. Maybe they haven't been introduced yet. Who do you think that Deidre is going to try to basically seed on Gorman? Like, who do you think she's going to try

to get into the rebels team? Oh, I don't know. That's a good question. Do you think it's Cyril? Because Cyril is itching. Cyril is itching. He is just like, I need to get out. And that's why that's such an interesting character dynamic because Cyril is just like yearning to be of use.

And Deirdre is just like, she can kind of like play him like a fiddle if she really wants to. And that's clearly illustrated by that dinner scene. Here's a thing. Here's a thing. He's a puddle on a bed. But I think Dider. But she cares about him. I think Dider actually needs Cyril as much as Cyril needs Dider.

Because I'm like, what I noticed. in this, I'm like, oh, Deidre, like, she's looking for, like, acceptance and she's looking for love and she's, like, looking for this thing. Because I think she's starting to have doubts about the empire, not in terms of, like, oh, she wants to become a rebel,

but doubts in terms of, like, I'm appalled. She hasn't quite been radicalized in the same way that some of the characters on the side of the rebellion haven't quite been radicalized. She's done a lot of fucked up shit. Don't get you wrong. But, you know, building up to even potentially

like being part of a mass, mass genocide event, right? It's something that she doesn't seem to. I'm not saying that she's standing on something moral here, but she's showing hesitation in being part of this. Now, look, the empire, they love genocide. They have a little genocide when they wake up in the morning, kill the whole planet, all of that stuff. But there's going to be a point where, in the story,

where there's no turning back. Do you think D.J. was scared after what happened on, what's the name of the Phoenix? Ferris, do you think that that was a moment where she was just like, she actually was boots on the ground, got to kind of see,

like, oh, this is what it means to kill this many people. And like, basically, the Empire's just like, he fucked it out, bye. Right. I think that's part of it. That's definitely part of it. But I also think that that's the reason

why she was chosen. And you see Krennick and essentially like the Empire do this all the time. Like Palpatine, the Empire, they reminds me of somebody else. They find what you want or you're a weak spot. They go to it. And then they give you something on the other side of it or they pressure you. And before you know you're one of them and you're wearing a red hat. I'm just joking.

I legitimately think her thing is. To invoke another Star Wars property, I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do. Rest and peace, solo, bro. Yeah. We got to go. Before we get out here, Steve, you want to say something? Oh, no. I think that it's going to be very interesting because we see, like, a fraction of that in this storyline

and the knowing that we're going to be time jumping a year plus to where those convictions have probably calcified into something that's a lot more actionable, who knows where that project's going to be or where she's going to be in the hierarchy. of that project. I'm very fascinated. I mean, also, to be clear, because the fans will probably yell at us, I think also the thing is,

I don't think she's standing on any moral ground. I think to her, she's like, Axis. Axis is the thing that I actually want. And her boss is like, hey, yo, you haven't found Lutheran yet. You haven't found this Rebel cell yet. Stop wasting time. Stop wasting time.

And I think to her, she's just like... And you don't have a choice. They've gotten at you, they've told you what they want you to do. And you got to do it. Last question. It's just a yes or no question One around the room We back?

Yes Unprecedented levels of back So back Nigger we back Reporting live from planet Glaze That's a rap Well fuck it

When the donuts are good We glaze them All right That is a wrap This week on the Ring ofverse feed The Ring of Verse is deep On the Last of Us Howsovara will give you

Their Last of Us Deep dive But Match will be with you On Thursday Mint Edition comes back Friday as well. Our producers are Alea S-O-B-Zanaires. Jonathan, the poet, Kerma,

Jomi, Explanter, Dinner on, on socials, hashtag Jomi, the Explaner to the Rambles. I like that. On social, the digital production from Arjuna, De Wacha. Rangapal, Chuck, take us out. Andor is back.

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