The Ringer-Verse - 'Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania' Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: February 17, 2023

Time to shrink down to size and have the Midnight Boys give their thoughts on the latest entry into the MCU—'Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania' (08:36). They talk about the wild world that the Quantum realm has to offer, as well as the introduction of the newest big bad, Kang. Later, they give the movies their own personal scores on the Midnight Meter. Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Productional Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're lost in the darkness, look for the pod. Specifically, the Prestige TV podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network, where we're breaking down every new episode of HBO's The Last of Us. On Sunday nights, grab your battery and join Van Lathen and Charles Holmes for an instant reaction to the latest episode. Then head back to the QZ on Tuesdays for a deep dive with Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin. From character arcs to video game adaptation choices, story themes to needle drops, we'll parse every inch of this cordyceps-coded universe.

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See terms at Fanduil.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Welcome into the Ringerverse. This is of course the Ringer's Nexus podcast, B for all things fandom, we are. You know me to explain that. I'm going to run. He's got answers. That's like the radio shack thing.

Steve the architect Allman. Hashtag, be nice to Steve. Old Man, Ben, he of the receding Resurgent hairline and Coat Baby Chuck the 24-caria closer together. We are known

as Ava Midnight, boys. Listen, you have to follow some socials, guys. It's very important. Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok. Jomi needs the Celine S-7. I'm not going to rest. I'm not going to rest until Jomey,

I can't wait to see Jomey whipping the Salina S7. Well, here's the thing. With gas prices these days, it might just be like a, you know, out in the town car, you know, where I'm going to like a, I'm going to like show off or something, you know, stunned a little bit. But I'll still, you know, ride on my, you know, my weekday car. What date spot do you pull up in the Salinas 7 to? Oh, man.

You pull up to Nobu, Malibu, in the Selena 7? Right. You know, you go to, um. Jomi, how was your Valentine's Day? Oh man, it was great, bro. Let me tell you. Let me break it down for you real quick. Shady question.

How's that's a shitty question? I'm asking my friend. Yeah, man, I'll break it down for you. So, you know, I, you know, worked. They'll put up my hours at the, you know, at the job. Then, man, you're not going to believe this. I had the Super Bowl leftovers for the second day in a row. And then, and then it's crazy.

I watched Love Island. Then I went to sleep. Great night, man. Just a great night. That's some of the settings. Fantastic. King. Charles.

Fantastic. Right there. All right. Bro, man. Mad man. A Monday, the House of Arr is going to give you their deep dive into Ant Man and the Wast Quantum Man. A hugely divisive film that we'll be covering on this podcast today. No Midnight Boys next week.

Interesting. Next week is Wellness Week. Spotify situation. So everybody's taking off. You guys are free to come over here if you want. Cool. Like we'll be, I'll be over here,

you know, hanging out. I don't believe in wellness week. I'll be honest with you. What do you believe in, Ben, anti- Wellness Week? I believe in just fucking do it,

you know? That's great. You know, I believe. This is an old man, Van, opinion you've ever fucking had. You're like, look at these kids trying to

get well, trying to rest. Fuck them. It's not about you. I believe that rest is like anything else. It must be scheduled. And you're responsible for your own rest. And we scheduled this rest. I think making a corporation responsible for your rest.

Okay. Well, is the nanny state. I'm sorry. All right, Mr. Monopoly. God damn. Make a corporation response. Hey, get your rest. Anyway, whatever. Wellness I'll be here potting without even recording. I'll be keeping sharp.

I'll be right here. He's in the lab. Stuff. You're like, keeping up to stay like that. You sound like Dame Lillard. You like, man, I got too much heart. Like, fuck out. Like, just join us, man.

Rest. Nica, no. I get as much rest as I need to. Okay. Next Friday, the House of Ar is going to give you their Mando watch list and favorite Mando Moments Pod. Everybody give me a favorite Mando. moment right now.

Before we get to Malinjo, give me a favorite Mando moment. Charles. Oh, Grogu eaten the little blue macaroons when he was like just so happy to finally get one. Come on. Jummy.

When Luke came through with the lightsaber in the season two finale. That's the worst choice. This is Christ. You know what I mean? It's very cool, but it's like on the nose. You know what I mean? What's your favorite superhero movie,

The Dark Night? You know what I mean? Jummy, like take a chance, bro. Like, you know, I'm going to ask you again, Jomi I'm not going to, you can't, you can't, you can't. You can't have that one, what's your favorite superhero movie? The best superhero movie all the time. You can't, you can't have that.

Boo, B'Boo. You can't. I can't have that one. You can't have that one? No, that one. Oh, wait, no, I changed my one. Okay. No, my favorite.

Baby Yoda with the radio. That's the best one. Like, you go to the radio is good. Yeah. All right, then. My favorite is when, it's actually in the book of Boba Fett when Mando

fought the guy from Clan Vizla with the Dark Saber that was pretty cool as well That was going to be my answer Really? Really? Yeah, so it's like really cool moment. It's really awesome. It's a really cool moment.

Steve, what about yours? I also hate to admit that this is also from the book of Boba Fett but it's when he gets this new ship and the X-Wings pull him over and tell him to park the latest stop and then he just like blazes right past him and outruns the cops. Interesting that everybody

hates the Book of Boba Fitt so much, but some of your favorite Mando moments come from the Book of BobaFitt's crazy. It's crazy how that show isn't about BobaFet in the end, huh? It is about BobaFat. Do you think do you think motherfuckers are going to be confused as hell with the new season? Like, if they didn't watch Book of Boba Fett?

Or do you have to watch Book of BobaFet? No, you have to watch. Because they don't know. Because they filled in a lot of plot there. You have to watch it. They literally reunited Grogui and Mando in the show that wasn't about them. But you got to think about it. There's people who just watch Mandalorian.

Like, they don't even keep up with anything else. They ain't going back to watch the... Yeah, I think so. There are people who just watched The Mandalorian? I think that when Disney Plus first launched, I think there are a lot of people when they signed up. You're like, all right, I'll check out the Baby Yoda show. And, like, they literally only watch the Baby Yoda show.

Well, I kind of feel like at the end of season two of the Baby Yoda show, they had a little teaser for the Book of BobaFith show. And then when the show ended, you know, maybe you're just catching up. Maybe like last year in November, you're like, I'll finally check out this Mandalorian show. Once the season two, you know, ended, they're like, go watch Mando, go watch the Book of BobaFet.

You know, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Like that's what those things do. So if you missed it, that's all you kind of a little bit. On today's show, we're going to give you our instant reactions. to the next installment in the NCU Ant Man and the Wasp Quantumania I like this

that's the way I have to give the energy You know what? Hold on for a second I want to do something new All right I want to get into something new Everybody get moving Everybody get moving

Let's get the energy out Everybody get moving Come on All of it everybody get moving Everybody get moving I'm stationed I'm stationed Everybody can move

I know you wouldn't do it I knew you wouldn't do it. That's because me and Jomi and Steve are fucking rocking it right now. If you guys could only see, we're getting the energy up. Everybody, give me a one, two, three. On three, say, Midnight Boys. Up, poup, pew, phew, one, two, three. Midnight boys.

That's what the energy needs to be for Amman. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Give me the spoiler warning, Steve. We're getting ready to talk about Ant-Man and the Wasp Quatermania. You're listening to a reaction podcast.

The spoilers are coming. Now, before we get into reactions, we have to know what happened. In order to know what happened, we have to do something we haven't done in a little while. It warms my heart to have it back. 24-carat closer gives you the Midnight Manifest, puts you in the need to know.

Charles, take it away. All right, and this is your midnight manifest for Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantum Mania, directed by Peyton Reed, written by Jeff Loveness, a writer on Rick and Morty. We start in the aftermath of the snap where Scott Lang has become a pseudo-celebrity on a book tour for his memoir, Lookout from the Little Guy. His daughter Cassie is now Revelli's teenager, who Scott and Hope have to bail out in jail after defending a homeless encampment the police we're trying to get rid of by shrinking a cop car. At a family dinner with the entire aunt family, Cassie reveals that she's been sending a signal

down to the quantum realm with the help of Hank. quickly everything goes haywire and Scott Hope Cassie, Hank, and Janet are stuck into the quantum realm. Scott and Cassie are captured by freedom fighters who are trying to survive the rule of King the conqueror. Meanwhile, Hope and Hank are learning more about Janet's ears stuck in this realm and her relationship with Kang. Modoc, one of King's henchmen, who you might remember as Yellow Jacket from the first Ant Man, attacks. Scott and Cassie are captured. King threatens to kill Cassie if Scott doesn't help him recapture the multiversal engine that Janet broke. years ago to keep him in prison.

Said engine will help him escape from the quantum realm and get revenge on the council of kings that sent him down to the quantum realm. Scott is successful with the help of hope, but Kang double-crosses him, a war breaks out, and the freedom fighters, along with Hank's sentient future aunts, help the aunt family overwhelmed Kang. Scott is successful and his family returns to their normal lives.

This has been your midnight manifest for Ant Man in the Lost, Quantum Mania. We are going to go, Charles, Jomi, Steve. First thoughts coming out of the theater. Go. I was torn. I'll be honest. I think that this is by far,

I like the world for the first 15 or 20 minutes. I was kind of interested. I was in it. And then I felt like this creeping sense of emotional emptiness a little bit that I think in the drive to make this. Ant Man movie bigger. They maybe lost a little bit of what made Ant Man so special, that original one, which is kind of the heart.

And yeah, I'm still kind of trying to wrap my head around this movie and take it as both an Ant Man movie, but also like what this says about the bigger MCU project. But I will say that this had one of the rare moments where you look at the screen and you're like, okay, this is a movie star. We're constantly talking about the death of the movie star. And I will tell you that, goddamn, King, Jonathan Majors,

I was just like, okay, this is our next guy. Like, this is our next era parent to the acting throne. So yeah, I'm a little bit mixed. We'll get into why a little bit later.

What about you, Jomey? What did you think? I felt, you know, quite like Charles, felt divided. Ultimately,

you know, on the car right home, I came to the conclusion that the movie is fine. It's just fine. It's got upstarts and it's got, you know, nadir's. There are some moments that I think might be too nuts for some audience members. But when it's all said and done, I think the movie accomplishes what it sets out to accomplish and delivers, you know, some fun moments and some cool moments along the way while at the same time just

kind of being an even. That being said, it's a solid film. I will get into, you know, my thoughts later, but it was cool. Jomey the the sorres Adenoron. I'm just impressed that you used the word

nadir's. I was like, God damn, Jome, you win your bag. All right. College, guys. I know words. I know you went to college too, Joe. I was trying to give you a compliment. The retention is wonderful. I enjoyed this, I think, for the most part. Again, like, you'll find things in this movie that are a lot of a mixed bag. I agree with you, Charles, that the things that made Ant Man special, the Ant Man movies special, especially in the first and second one, aren't really here. And I think that's probably having a lot to do with its setting and location, because a lot of the fun that we get from an Ant Man movie is like the kind of juxtaposition of like the world and how big and how small and how powerful and how compact everything.

in Ant Man's Orbit can be, and there's a lot good in this. Again, the key moment of this being Jonathan Majors' performance is Kang. But there's a bit of stumbles, narratively, that kind of hold it back quite a bit. But I overall would say this is enjoyable, but ultimately a solid, fine movie. Worked for me. I don't think that the movie is a grand slam. but no Ant-Man movie has been a grand slam. To me, I think that this movie is a sort of realization

that the character can be something more. Look, it's an interesting criticism to say that this movie is different than an Ant-Man movie has been before. If we look at any of the solo films, maybe besides Iron Man, their DNA drastically changed. changes as the films go on. If you look at Captain America, the first Avenger, the DNA of the movie changes to, well, by the time we get to Civil War, it's kind of Captain America in an Avengers film surrounded by organizational dysfunction and how you get out of it. It's kind of what we'd see the character kind of turn into.

I think that's interesting to try with Ant Man because the character has been sort of an also-rand in the MCU. Not unimportant, of course, but not like a marquee player. This is the movie where you would try a wacky, crazy, mixed up, you know, out of this world realm, in my opinion. And I thought that that kind of fit sort of the overall, you know, feeling and rhythm of who Ant Man is. Jonathan Majors was brilliant. The movie itself had me invested and involved towards the end. We, in my opinion, are seriously, seriously being weighed down by expectations at this point. The collective we?

Yeah, the collective we. Yeah. At this point, it's not a bad thing. Marvel is sort of to blame for this because Marvel gets into a way. of promising with every film that this is something new that you've never seen before and blah blah blah the eternals are coming this is we're going in a completely new place it's going to be boom wow ant man we're going to a completely new realm we're going to blow you away something it's the movie's

cool the movie worked but like we're not going to write any essays or sonnets or talk about the times that we were super even the bill murray cameo in this movie okay you know what I mean It was like, all right, cool. You know what I mean? But it was, it was fun to watch. I had fun. I had fun.

I had fun. Can I wait, can I ask this really quick, though? Because they said in the lead up to this that Thor Ragnarok was kind of really their North Star in terms of just like seeing how different the third Thor was. And I think the director was kind of really adamant about they were tired of Ant Man, and basically feeling like a palate cleanser. And part of me feels like maybe that was the problem where I think what made something like Thor Ragnarok so special

is that it was something new. We had never seen that in the MCU before. We had never seen that risk. And when I was watching this movie, I could tell that they were trying to make their own Thor Ragnarok. And I was just like, that to me was kind of the issue where instead of the early MCU being like, we're going to do something you've never seen in this universe before,

now they're kind of stuck in this moment where it's just like, how do we stay creative when this is the 31st film? You can kind of sometimes tell which movie they are basing it on in the MCU. See, I actually disagree that Thor Ragnarok, even for me, was something that we had never seen before in the MCU because I personally think

that Guardians set a very clear blueprint for Thor Ragnarok in that these are two movies that are like super heavily comedic, almost in a meta way. And there was a lot of comparison in tone after the trailer and after people saw the movie between the tone of Guardians and the tone of Thor Ragnarok.

I think, so for me, if they looked at Ragnarok as their North Star, then they failed because this movie is, to me, not anything like that film. I think there's their similarities in almost every Marvel movie at this point but to me this movie is it kind of dips its toe into something that we've

I guess never seen before in that we're in an almost Alice in Wonderland type of situation here we're in wacky new realm where the creatures are all different and all of that kind of stuff happens But I thought it was a cool little trip. I thought it was a cool little trip. I think that what a lot of MCU fans now are looking for

is every single one of these movies to justify their existence. So you want the movie to kind of be important for some reason. You want like, okay, so this movie introduces Kang, okay, you have to see it. Like, Dr. Strange in the multiverse of Mad. Madness is really going to get into the multiverse and they're going to be all these cameos. It's going to change everything. So you have to see it. Thor Ragnarok.

You have to see it. We're going to these movies because we want to see them. Like, you're not really, you know what I mean? We're going because we want to see them. The have-to-see-it element of some of these films, which they tried to sell us on to make us watch all of these movies and all of these shows and all of this stuff. every single movie we go to, we leave now with, that was cool.

Like, in game you had to see. Infinity War you had to see. Like, those events that are just few and far between. And I think that structure or that expectation is really starting to cloud the way we judged the movies.

And I'm not talking down on anybody who didn't enjoy this movie because before I went in, everybody I heard from, I don't know about you guys, said that the movie sucked. I mean, the early reactions to this movie, you could already tell,

even from, like, you know, the usual Twitter crowd who likes all the Marvel movies, I was just like, why are y'all being so, like, tepid? Like, it was, it was weird. But I also, I think this is also a compounding effect to your point van, where it's like, even if I feel like, you know, Marvel is suffering from their own success,

part of me is just like, at the end of the day, like, this is just where we're at. This is not just where we're at with Marvel. It's where we're at with DC. it's where we're at with Star Wars. Like, this is a Hollywood problem, as much as it is an MCU problem. What was the greatest strength of film to you, Charles?

I will honestly say I think it was the humor. I do think that, like, at least in my screening, I don't think all of the jokes worked, but I think when the movie was less serious almost and just realized that, hey, we're still an Ant-Man movie, it worked the best. There were, like, people were chuckling. I was even chuckling.

So that's why I'm saying, like, I had mixed feelings because part of me was just like, damn, like, I miss Louise. Like, that's like, that's what I was thinking the whole time. I wanted more of that, like, Scott just being the fuck up in the real world dealing with Kang instead of him being introduced to a bunch of characters that, like, no offense. I was like, what the fuck is this guy? I don't care about this guy. I want him to be like with his buds again, you know, minus T.I. Oh, shit. What?

Wow. Just shot right across the bow, a tip. I mean, he deserves it. Look at Jomi's face. Midboys. I would agree with Charles. We would want to default to the performance of Jonathan Majors, which is like legitimately incredible.

But again, it kind of feels like this is a different movie for Kang to be introduced in, rather than it being an Ant-Man film that when it's in its, is having a good time with itself and isn't taking itself too seriously. As great as I want to say that the introduction of Kang is going to be a great linchpin for the phase five moving forward, when this movie really hits, we're kind of laughing at how ridiculous it is. And we're having a good time too. And only when it's kind of pushing up against Jonathan Majors' performance or the stakes that it's actually supposed to imply, I think that's kind of a good time. I think that's kind of where there's a bit of friction

there. And I think that's kind of the thing where it's getting lost in the saucer. If it leaned into its humor more, I think we would have had a lot more time, or at least a lot more people would have a lot more of a good time. Was Jonathan Majors in a different movie? Not in a bad way. I loved his performance. I loved it so much. But part

of me was like, he's doing like an Infinity War, Thanos type performance. In an Ant-Man movie. In an Ant-Man movie. And sometimes I was just like, this is a little awkward. and this is, and I get why Jonathan Majors, it's a hard place for him to be in. It's just like, I needed Kang to make one joke, just one.

Just like to, just a wink in a nod or something. I don't know what, but like, it's just like he's so serious. And like, I get it. I know why, but it's, it's in complete contrast to this movie in most ways. Isn't that the way it always is? Not really. No, not always. Not always.

No. Not always. Like, we've seen this happen before when like sometimes that they're just in a different movie and everybody's way too serious. I'm not saying that like Thanos was cracking jokes all the time, but it's the fact that like the villain can kind of like assimilate himself into whatever

movie he's in based on the tone that the movie's presented. And I feel like those are just like misaligned when it comes to Kang and the rest of this movie. Like the Killmonger Hey Auntie moment is a perfect example of like that's a super serious moment, but he at least crack some jokes to be like, okay, like I get I'm still in an MCU movie. So this is kind of the conversations that I'm talking about.

Okay, so we wanted Kang to be funnier. It's not that I needed him to be funnier or something like that. It's just that like there are so many like atonal moments that come across when we finally introduce Kang into this movie that either pump the brakes on the stakes of this movie so that we could have a laugh or elevate them so high that it's just a bit of like tonal whiplash. Right. So for me, the Hey Auntie Mom. moment is funny, but it's completely in line with who the character is, right? He's, like, when you, when you first meet Eric Kilmonger, he's fucking with somebody. Like, he's, like, he's fucking with that.

Yeah, when you first meet him, he's fucking with that lady. He's like, yeah, show me about all of these right there. Show me about all of these, blah, blah, blah. He's, I mean, it's not funny, but he's like, it's basically shit posting her. I mean, people were laughing in my theater. It wasn't meant to be funny, but people were laughing. Yeah, he's fucking with her. But, you know, in Guardian,

you had Ronan who you didn't get any comedy for Ronan? You know what I mean? It's like they're, the villains a lot of times in these situations they have to be serious because they really now the Grandmaster like he was

he was very, very funny but like it, what I'm saying is I don't think I need it came to be funny. He's trying to conquer and kill everybody. You know what I get it. But when he's doing that talking to Corey Stoll's gigantic babyhead

with his little tiny arms and legs and we're just laughing at what we're seeing on the screen and he's giving us like an Oscar level performance next to it. We don't really know what to feel sometimes. So I'll ask you this, man, be real, be real. Because like in the beginning of the movie, they're like, they're all of you like, yo, have y'all heard about him?

Have you heard about the conqueror? He got all these weapons. Like, he's one of the most powerful people ever. And at the end of the movie, this motherfucker gets dispatched by like some fucking ants and the was stingers. I'm like, bro, like, what are we doing? Like, that was the point in the movie where I'm just like... To me, that's a, to me that's the major flaw in the movie. They want to get rid of this king, I guess, to give us the council of Kang so that we can get into King Dynasty. And now it doesn't seem like Prime King will be our enemy.

It seems like our Big Bad. It seems like all of those guys will be, which is an interesting way to come. kind of do that to do that movie if this Prime King is really gone. But just be honest with you. You just can't be that strong and lose to Antman. I don't care if it's...

I don't care if it's Ant-Man with him or a wasp or whoever. You just can't be that strong and get your shit kicked in by Ant-Man. Those are the things that annoy me because it seems like sometimes

that the guys up in the MCU don't really get what it is that we're looking for in the movie. I mean, it happens. I think for me, I can't get away from Jonathan Major's performance. You know, the first half the movie,

they're like, oh, it's him. He's coming. It's him. And Jonathan Majors was him in this film. The one thing that I'll take away from the film, is that when we see Keg again, he's not somebody to be messed with.

And Donald Major is going to bring it 100%. We saw it on Loki. We saw it here. You know, if this is the MCU's big bag going forward, great choice. Can't wait to see him again. Yeah, I mean, right now he's over too. They falconed him.

This is going to be real with you. I was real. Right now, they falconed him. Wait, what's the first one? Sylvie. Sylvie killed him at the end. I mean, that was, this was, That was more of a choice he offered them.

I don't count that. Like, he wasn't like... Bro, let's bring it back to the real and keep it real with the people. Okay? Thanos, purple, played by a white dude, literally took one loss. He only lost one time.

And it took the entire... He lost twice. He lost twice. He two-piece the Hulk. Like, yeah, he's... When did he lose twice? Tell me when King lost his name. When he was making his little breakfast,

And like, door comes in and, that's the same loss, in my opinion. But they beat them in the Avengers, though. Well, okay, so this is my thing. This is my thing. That doesn't even count the Avengers. That's a Loki loss. That's like, that's not a real loss.

I agree with that. That's not a thing of course. That's a Loki loss. What I'm saying is that he loses, that's actually off of a win that they get him. He already won. He didn't really lose at the beginning of the end. game. What? That wasn't

a loss. How was that a loss? That was a loss, bro. He died. He died. Come on. You guys. You guys. This is my problem with you guys sometimes. Okay. He had already won. And he retired. Okay. So he was not

right. He was not even trying. You can't retire from the game, though. You can't retire. He had lost. Have you watched the wire? You can't retire from the game. Like, you can. Like, he retired. He had lost and he retired.

And he was up there. He willingly destroyed the stones. Willingly destroyed the stones. And he came in there, they're doing the whole thing. He's talking this shit. They kill him so what. Really, that was a bigger loss for them. He lost one time.

And he lost at the end of end game. And technically, that wasn't really even him. That was him from years ago. Oh, my goodness. So he lost one time. like, Kang or variants of King have started off 0 and 2. It's a lot of game left.

Lost to Sylvie? We know that he's going to lose again. A lot of game left. We know that he... No, he might win in King Dynasty. And then he might have to... No, he might win in King Dynasty. But just think about it.

So then let me ask you this. This is really important during Black History Month. Sorry, Steve, you cannot, you cannot get in on this question. You know what? Is it possible? Is it possible? Is it possible for black people to prosper in the MCU? Don't seem like it.

I mean, like, a black man is Captain America, you know, like, forget his fight record. But his record, but come on, man. You know, like, a brother is Captain America. I don't know what that says for, you know, propaganda purposes. Like, look, we got a black man as Captain America. They destroyed war machines. Fine. You don't say?

L's. L's, L's, L's. This is tough. Like Shirley and Waconda got washed by Nambor, if we're being honest. I mean, she beat them in the end. Yeah, but still. Like. Really, but look, really, if we're being honest,

Talo Khan beat the dog shit out of Wakanda. That's what I'm saying. A whole country of L's. Yeah. Like, L's popping up, bro. By the way, black Hoteps were mad about that. Like, bro, bro, they were, bro. I can't remember who's video.

What are these videos? What are you watching on YouTube, bro? What is, dog, I watch everything on YouTube. What are these videos? Oh, it was Umar. Ha ha. It was Umar. You're fucking lying, bro.

You're fucking lying. Dog, I swear to God, bro. Bro, I swear to God, we have to find this video. Umar, Dr. Umar was like, I didn't go. He said, I didn't go to watch Black Panther to watch Wakanda get their ass kicked. Like, Steve, you got it? I know where it is that I have seen.

Steve, you have to put this in the show. You have to play this clip. He's like, I didn't go to watch Wakanda forever to watch the Wakanda get their asses kick. And I didn't even think about it until then. Anyway, we digress. So Jonathan Majors as King. I mean, I guess you could kind of as a victory that he took over the team. Yes, oh for two in a way.

But fantastic performance. All right. Greatest strength of the movie, though, we haven't talked about. I don't know if we've got a clear answer for you guys. I mean, Steve said humor. You and Steve said humor. I said King. I said the villain.

King. I have to go with King as well. Even though I'll be honest. A lot of people told me that this performance wasn't great and they ruined the movie. Who said that? Who said that? No, no, no, not King. I'm talking about somebody different now.

Oh. Modoc. I laugh. Disagree. I laugh. No. Every time. No.

No. Every time. I'm going to cook. And then I'm going to get my Modak shit off. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming.

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Corn salsa 40 grams of protein Made to keep up with whatever comes next New sweet green wraps hit different Order now at order. Dot sweetgreen.com Well, let's go to the amp family We'll talk about Modoc in the second

Let's go to the amp family first Before I get into this Let's just talk about the family There was more family in this situation that we got in any of the other movies it seemed like, or maybe it was a Fuller family because they were all together.

Yeah, it was Fuller family. All right, Charles, what did you think about the Ant family? I think, honestly, the part of the movie that I was, like, warm to and then I didn't get enough of is I thought it was hilarious

when they're in the car. And, like, you see Scott struggling to be a father because Cassie is, you know, being rebellious and shit. And, like, that was kind of what I think was missing. was I wanted more of like Scott Lang, the dude who saved the world once.

Like he had one good game in high school and he can't stop talking about that shit. He's like, uh, he's like fucking what, Uncle Rico and Napoleon Dynamite? Like, dog, that is what I wanted more of of that relationship. And I just feel like the hugeness of the movie got away from that. I even like the little bits between Hank and Janet

and realizing like they were, horny and they had other lovers while they were apart. I wanted more of that. And I just kind of think that me not getting it was like, it was just a little sad. I can't believe I'm saying this as somebody with a

with a Young Avengers agenda as deep as mine. But Cassie to me is probably like the worst. Not the worst part of the film, but the part of the film I enjoyed the least. What is this thing? I don't think she was great, but the worst? I didn't love it.

I know what's bothering, Jomey. Something that I've talked about a lot in these recent months and years. I think Jomey wasn't a fan of the pluck. I think the pluck... I think the Ply got me. I think the pluck got him. I think Jomey didn't like the pluck.

I think you guys get at me, but when you think about it, pluck sucks. And that's the thing. Jomew, you didn't like the pluck. I didn't love it. the pluck. I didn't love the pluck. With everything that was going on,

I was like, I, you know, we, I guess, I mean, the movie had to do it. This is like, family. This is like a fast movie. The family, La Familia, was so important. You know, and his relationship with his daughter, and ultimately, at the back end of the movie, it all came to fruition. But watching them, like,

you know, I don't want to say goof around the quantum realm, but, you know, exchanges, I was like, man, was we have time for this? All right, for sure. That's all. Cool. Sure, why not? But, I mean, you know, Hope and, I mean, Hank was, I loved Hank.

Hank had had a great moment at the end there. You know, ants. That was badass. And, you know, seeing Hope and Janet finally, like, finally connect after, like, all the movies and all the years that they've been together was really nice. But, yeah, I'm sure Cassie would redeem herself in, um, in a Young Avengers, you know, as stature. But at this first pass, I was like, I don't know. Wait, talking about the Young Avengers real quick.

Jomey, I want to get your opinion on this. Does the MZU write all of their child heroes the same? Like, everybody's like a mini Peter Parker where it's like, it's so cool being a, like, being a kid hero. And I have a mentor. And I got, and I'm just like, can we get like a different flavor? Like, why did Miss Marvel, Cassie, like, fucking. the new Hawkeye.

All of them are basically the same character. They're all the same. And they all like, I have this power. I got to do good things with it. You know, like it's basically, just like Peter Parker, just basically is like Spider-Man. Like, with Greg Packers, it's a great responsibility.

It's like, you don't have to, you know, you could, I would love one one individual character who's like, I don't want this. I don't want to do this. Make me do this. Somebody forced me to be a hero. You know? They're just all, you know, very, very similar to the point, like, where I'm like, Van's point, they're all fucking too fucking. I'm like, somebody, you got to chill.

This is my thing. I fundamentally don't like child heroes. You guys know this. I don't like the kid version of anybody ever. I hate it. All right? You guys know that. It's just always been a thing with me.

I was like, what the fuck do I need Superboy for? Don't need it. If Superboy is like a child Superman, you guys want to do with all kinds of continuity problems. But if it's like a different, I don't need it, right? However, I personally think that Kate Bishop, you guys might disagree with me, was a little less plucky. I thought she was a little, she was mischievous, right?

But she didn't give off a lot of pluck. No, she was plucky as hell. So you guys all hate its stature. That's important. It's not true. Not true. I didn't hate her. Just.

I have a question for y'all. Was Was Wasp in the movie? All right. Can I get my wasp thing off really, really quick? Because I saw something. How many total days? How many total days on set? Did Evangeline Lily?

She shouldn't have got the vaccine takes off. How many total day cut her shit out? How many total days on set? When the eventually really happened I think she was there the whole time they just punished her with the haircut

That's what it was All right The haircut was bad But multiple times in the movie Like there would be some action going on Very unloke And then hope Would just come out of nowhere

Wasp would come out of nowhere And I'd be like Oh she's in this movie still It got so bad at the end of the movie When like you think Scott Like Scott's asses be And she flies back to save him I'm like oh yeah shit

Wasp is in this movie Fuck Like, I forgot. Like, it was weird. I'm also going to be honest. Like, I think Wasp was worse than Cassie, if we're going to be honest. She was doing nothing in this movie. I really think if it's going to be an Ant Man and the Wasp movie that she needs her own arc.

Yeah. And her own motivation. And I get that it was, they tried to do it in terms of her relationship with her mother. it just, that's the part of the movie that didn't really work for me. A part of the movie that didn't really work for me was if this movie is supposed to be Ant Man and the Wasp.

This was a very Scott-centric movie and really Cassie was a bigger deal in the film to me than the Wasp was. But, you know, other than that, I thought the family was cool. I always love seeing Hank Pim. Hank Pim is such a complicated character and seeing him as an older character,

I mean, Hank Pim is super complicated to the point to where, you know, he was kicked out of the Avengers for domestic violence and all kinds of crap back in the day. This was a smack and wasp around. But it's a very complicated character who's dealt with a lot of different things,

and I think that the character actually gets played by Michael Douglas perfectly. With like a little bit of a mean streak, there's a little inaccessibility there. There's a tiny bit of disdain for Scott. But it's still worse. I thought the aunt family was pretty cool here.

But really quick, I do think what's hilarious is how Michael Douglas plays him as like this old, like they play up the fact that like is weird that this old white man is so into ants. Like he's just like, but that's what's so endearing. Like this man just wants to be left alone with this fucking smart ass ants and nobody will let him. I kind of wanted more of them. I would have rather been a Hank Pim and Scottling movie from being honest. Wow. Just remember this, I just want, I just want you guys to remember something when, when woke corner is coming on.

Steve, I want a woke drop whenever we, by the way, I have to, I have to, I have to say something real quick. A little toxicity check here. Well, do you guys say this movie would be better with less women, okay? Whoa. Did not say that. Did not say that at all. You said, what you said was take Wasp and Cassie out of the move. All right.

So if you're going to put wasps in the movie, you should make, you should make her story interesting instead of being like, oh yeah, we forgot to give her any motivation. You criticize wasps haircut. That's straight out of Donald Trump speech, circa 2016.

Like seriously. Well, can I, can I submit? Can I submit a defense, please, to the black delegation. Yes. You get a pass when it's, the Karen haircut. As a black person. God damn that strong.

God damn that strong. This is what I'm talking about when I'm talking about Charles Holmes. When I'm talking about Charles Holmes, when people talk to me, they go, man, what's Charles like? I'm like, he's fucking brilliant. That's what I'm talking about.

Because I didn't think there was any way you could get that out of fire. God damn that strong. Because you know, because there's a thing, My time as a waiter, like I knew if you had the carrying hair cut. A fucking problem. I'm like, bro, all right. Like, I would just like, I'd be like, all right.

Problem. I knew the haircuts that was going to be cool. If two white people came in there with dreads, I was going to make some friends. Hell you. They had just come from Costa Rica. You know what I'm saying? They was going to tell me all about it. It was going to be whatever.

The money might be. They had a lot of money, but it was probably like a little dingy. But if you came in there with one of them haircuts and you dressed up, you just came from your daughter's recital. I'm having a bad night. Bill and Corner, we've talked a little bit about Kane. I think we all agree that it was a fantastic performance by Jonathan Majors. So, let's go.

Likes, dislikes about the portrayal of Kane by Jonathan Major. We talked a little bit about it, but anybody can get off anytime they want. I wish I had more, man. I wish you had more. He's only in the second half of the movie. and he's menacing. Like that scene where he's with Cassie and Scott in the prison hole, he's like, hey, player, I'll kill her. You like run this heist for me, my boy, and she's gone. And he's like literally like, you know, choking her out.

And I was like, oh, snap. He's not like, I love that. I love the energy, you know. It's just I wish we had got more of it in the film, I wish they had to spend the first hour going like him, he's coming. Beware of him. He's everywhere. I wish we would have just seen him.

Can I just also say this? Like, there were some lines, King was because he's like, yo, time is a prison. And I'm like, all right, boy, we about to see some shit. And he was talking about how like, yo, these people set me down to this prison. And I'm like, everything King's saying now would have been way more interesting to see on screen than all of the bullshit of them trying to repair shit and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like I just wanted, I know we were going to get King Dynasty. I think my issue with King was I'm just like, he's so interesting.

Whenever we would go back to like fucking Bill Murray or everything else, it just felt like wasted space, you know? I would agree with that. I think the key standouts from Jonathan Major's performance was actually him in his early days interacting with Janet. Because the illusion of him being like either a friend or a comrade for Janet, and hopefully getting out. And that turn that he gives to Janet, where, like, Kang is who I need to be.

This is what I have to do in order to save who I need to save. Everything that Jonathan Majors does with his face, his tone, his, like, delivery of every word that he's saying is a cut above, like, 99% of anything we've ever seen in the MCU. and that's really something that we could definitely rest our shoulders on for the rest of this phase five.

I'm so confident in what Kang is going to bring to us in the future and it's really all on display here. I do wish that we add more of it. I really do. That scene where he's like, Janet touches the drive

and sees Kang's vision and she gets all scared and she's like, if I let you go, what are you going to do? And he turns us head, to the front and says when. I was locked in.

That's my man. Because he knew. He knew. That was fire, right. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. There's a fine line with the King situation. Because I don't think this movie served as the King origin story that I thought it would serve as.

Yeah. Fair. King materialized. We understood that he was bad doing bad things. And then if he was able to escape, he would do bad things. and then he was killed by hands at the end of the film You gotta put that in there

killed by ass killed by ass and then we get Immortis Rama Tutt cut scene we'll talk about later Immortis Rammat and either

Iron Lad or Kid Immortis Not sure but there's a fine line there to where if you're going to do a Would you guys who have rather that the film have been longer? Because if you...

So the film is attempting to give you a family story about Scott Lang's acceptance of Cassie as a superhero. It's attempting to give you that, right? It's also attempting to give you a brand new world that will set the stage for the rules of some of the conflict we'll see in phase five. That's kind of the quantum realm and the ability to move throughout universes

and what is the quantum realm, where is the quantum realm, situation like that. And it's also attempting to get you familiarized with the Big Bad, which is King the Conqueror. And at the same time, on a smaller level,

it's attempting to build some sort of rapport between Janet and her mom. Okay. Excuse me. Hope and her. her mom. Yeah. Hope and her mom.

So which part of the film would you have been really to sacrifice to put more Kang in there? Because at this point, we still don't know why Kang is doing what he's doing. We don't. I'm assuming that. And that's okay, right? I'm assuming, because we didn't learn why Thanos was doing what he was doing until infinity war. But to be

fair, but to be fair, because we don't know King's motivation, he's the main villain in a way that Thanos was never the main villain until we got to Infinity War. So you didn't really need to know. This whole movie, I'm just like, wait, why is this King the Conqueror? Why does he think time is a prison? Why is he keep saying, I think of time

differently? Like, what about him and his childhood makes him so different from the other Keynes? That was what I was confused about. And that's a thing to do with a character like Kang because there are so many different versions of him and there are so many different slight tweaks that you can

give Kang with every single different type of iteration that he can change his motivation entirely the next time we see him and it would still technically make sense. If we want to bring it to the end of Loki season one, that ultimately acted as a sort of like

template placer for what Kang is going to be and because when we see he remains kind of like laying out the concept of what Kang can be, that there is just infinite numbers of me that all are trying to fight this one war that

is like going to kind of end all timelines to make one that kind of lays the groundwork for being, okay, I can be anything that is infinitely dangerous. So in order to establish the stakes in what an Ant-Man movie can be,

you kind of need to make the one sole motivator of what this first Kang Prime will call him should be, regardless of whether or not he accomplishes his mission because once we get to what our first post credit scene will be, we kind of need to

understand what should be going on there. Because if you're setting the goalpost for that far off into Kang Dynasty, there's got to be something that we can kind of latch on to other than, okay, this one guy died that looks like all these other guys and we'll see them later. So I'll ask a question then.

We all agree that Jonathan Majors, the performance itself was stellar, spectacular. Yeah. Was the character of King, not the performance by the actor. Was the character of King executed the way you would have wanted to have been executed?

Was the, did King totally work in this movie? I don't think so. I think visually, he did, acting-wise he did, I think narratively as a character, there wasn't enough there. I honestly, by the end of it, it was like, I kind of just wish this was a Kang movie, almost.

If I'm being real. Now, Van, you said this when he got off the theater, like this might have been the wrong property to introduce him in. I completely agree. And I thought, and that's what, that's, the fact that they were introducing him in

this movie is literally 70% of my intrigue for the film. Would he have worked more in a Fantastic Four movie? Absolutely. But, I mean, I, yeah,

Charles. I'm sorry, I didn't know it was an obvious question. You know what I mean? But that's obviously, you know, I mean, that's far away.

Yeah. Wait, can I put on my tinfoil hat really quick? Because I think. But, you know, with the quantum realm

that does introduce, that's what King fucking has his king. You know, so there is, canon for it, but maybe this is a little bit hidden above Ant Man's

you know. Because the things, when you put on my tinfoil hat, let's go back to the comics. Maybe the motivation for this King and this, if we go back to the comics, Cassie, an Iron Lad, who is a younger version of King, have a little bit of a romance. Okay? Do you

think that King the Conqueror, a young Jonathan Majors, came home with Scott in his universe. And Scott was just like, yo, don't bring them, you know.

Let me tell you straight up. If they have Jonathan Majors, with this movie not, okay, no, we're not doing it. Like, it's like,

okay. You just cast Superman like this. Why are we doing? Like, you know, maybe if they recast and they'll grab somebody off grownish or something like that,

but they're not going to de age John the Major and have him making eyes at Cassie. That's not, that's not going to work. I'm just saying, Maybe a younger version of him in his timeline. Maybe Scott was just like, I don't want you, you know, dating me.

You got to think about the red states, bro. They're not going for that, bro. They're not going for that. And plus, why is Cassie so into black dudes anyways? Because she went to jail a couple of times. Three times. Three times. You know what I'm saying?

First of all, let's talk about that. Cassie's been to jail three times, man. See, this is the problem with, I, this is how. Y'all talk about Old Man, Van. This is Old Man Van. I just think about movies where a kid, a child has gone to jail three different times.

That's a wayward youth. I don't give a fuck what I'm talking about. Excuse you, Van. I don't care why she went to jail. They were going to, you know, get the homeless out of there. Brough. Right? And so she was standing up for the people of poverty

in the city of San Francisco. It don't matter, bro. if that was not Cassie, if that was Casalina, because Cothina, like Taquinsia, three times in jail, she going to say it quick.

Can you imagine, like, can you imagine if Patriot was trying to shrink a cop car? They killed that motherfucker. Patriots are out of here, bro. Like Patriot in there living with his granddad, put Zah Bradley down. Like, look,

I'm going to a Black Lives Matter. Three different times. Three different times, man. They would have reopened Alcatraz for them. They busts and Patriot out of jail at the beginning of the Young Avengers movie. This Cassidy's a wayward you. And also the white, I got to be real. White families are different because they're just like laughing at dinner.

They're just like, oh, yeah, she's been to jail every time. I'm like, what's the fuck? No, bro, she's literally, if this was like, she'd be on Mori Povich. Kids go wild talking to that, that drill sergeant guy. Like, it's Cassie. I don't give a fuck, fuck y'all. As you walking out there to the people, I, fuck you guys. Fuck you.

Let me, guys, let me pitch you on this. Would you have liked Cassie in this movie better if she was played by a bad baby? Oh, my God. Stop. No way. That's a fucking fantastic idea. Like Cassie, like Cassie, like Cassie. But that would make a lot more sense.

That opens up the door to the Iron Ladd situation. Honestly. Okay. Let's move on. This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Cole has a return, and this time they're taking on Texas.

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Annette Harris, now streaming on Paramount Plus. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, apricot, rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch.

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and they told me that Modoc did really work. I really enjoyed Modoc. I thought Modoc was weird. You're fucking tripping, bro. I thought Modoc was fucking crazy and absurd. And I dug it, bro, Charles. You weren't fucking with Modoc. Y'all weren't fucking.

It wasn't that, here's the thing. I thought it was creative. Like, you know, seeing Stoll come back, the yellow jacket tie. And I was like, oh, this is really, really smart. But I could not get past. I'm just like, Modoc. bro, what the fuck was I looking at, man? Like, what are we doing, bro?

Like, bro, come on. We couldn't open the budgets, were you bothered by the Modoc ass, Charles? No, the Modoc ass was funny. That was funny. I did laugh. But, like, you gotta be real. This was the moment where I'm just like,

all right, Modoc, this ain't working. King and him in this movie, like, different movies. What Cassie's just like, you're a dick? And Modoc's like, I am a dick. And then five minutes later, he's like, I want to be going to do more. I was like, what the fuck are we doing? Charles, you're doing this

all wrong. You're making the mistake of taking Modoc seriously and you never need to take Modoc seriously. It's not that I wanted to take him seriously. It has to be funny. And some of the Modoc jokes are funny. And at other points, I was just like, bro. Like, it doesn't need to be funny. Just look at him. He's a giant floating baby head.

I don't think the jokes. That wasn't really the jokes. Every time he was on screen, I chuckled. That was so absurd. To me, it was part of the total problem where it's just, like, seeing that performance, it was just Modoc, I could, like, I could vibe with it. But see a Modoc next to Kang, I'm like, you guys are in different things. Like, come on.

That's true. It is funny when he flicked him across the room. He's like, don't speak when I'm in the room. Yeah, like, when Jonathan Majors is, like, saying that shit to him, I'm just like, bro, he's saying this to a big baby head. Like, what are you doing? But it's not a trope, though, that we always come back to very serious villain, like, kind of a court jester lackey underling.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've seen that before. That's not, yeah, but the court jester lackey got to look, got to look good, bro. It can't have the she-hawk bunch it. You feel me? No, man. No, they just put a wide lens on his face

and they just blew it up. That's it. I honestly, I don't think we were ever going to be happy with the way it looks, bro. It's Modoc, man. Like, I guess you could have, like, put the hair on him and, you know, made him more gris of the face.

But maybe there's some kind of weird, uncanny Valley with that. Honestly, what we got was great. I loved it. I love it. I will say that when he does die, that was the funniest shit. When he was just like, I'm an Avenger. And like, Scott is like, he doesn't add a heart

to tell his dying man. Like, come on. I got a question. I was asking this about Joey before we started recording. Is Ant Man allowed to give the Avengers co-sign here? Hell no. He was a bench warmer. Actually, no. No. I don't think that anyone to make

you an adventure adventure. I don't think anyone can make you an avenger besides Cap and Tony. That's exactly what I said. I don't think exactly what I said. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not there. That's not there. You're telling me that Thor can't make you an Avenger. No, no. Not to me. But here's a thing, but here's thing, man. In this new incarnation, he's the only one left. But check this out. I mean, he's an OG, but I don't think, I think it's Cap and Tony that can make you an Avengers. Anybody else, I don't think they can just make you an Avenger like that. I said the same thing, Van, but then I thought about it. And in Age of Ultron, Hawkeye tell Scarlet Witch, if you walk out the door right now, you're

an Avenger. Yeah, I think what he meant was that you're... That was bullshit then and it's bullshit now. Well, I mean, to be honest, that's a really good point. But I think he, what he meant is that you're fighting with us. And if you're fighting with us, I can't look after you. Like, what I think he meant by that? And I could just be splitting hairs here. And Jomi, that's a really good point. But he goes, I think he meant, look, because what he says, he says, I can see your brother by here and your brother can look after you, like, right? And he can, you know, get you out of here.

Because if you walk out of that door, you're an Avenger. And remember he told me he says, I'm doing this because this is my job. So if you walk out of his door and you're fighting with us, we can't fucking carry you through this fight. You got to get busy. So I think that's what he meant. A pep talk more of anything else. Yeah, I think when, like Iron Man.

when Spider-Man looked, when Iron Man looked at Spider-Man and he went, you are now an Avenger? I don't know, maybe it's the same thing. Maybe I'm wrong. I mean, the gentleman made a good point. Wait, so let me, this is an interesting question now. Who in the universe now?

Now that Cap and Tony are no longer there, who are the two people that we deem worthy of minting Avengers? Steve and I talked about this also. Is it the new Captain America? It's the new Captain America. It's got to be, right? He's got the shield. He's got the shield.

And that's part of the problem, right? That's part of the problem. I mean, that is part of the problem. That's when Kang Show up and Kang Dynasty, he's like, hey, can I get Shehawk? Let me get Sean Chi. It's looking a little. You want to know who I think, honestly, it is? I think I'm being an asshole.

I do think Cap, he inherited it. Like Steve said, I trust you. So technically, it is Falcon Cap. No, it's no technically. He's Captain America. We're being, like, we're being. so toxic right now. I say that we all get a transgression

to be honest. No, we all deserve one. Like we're so toxic. Mentality. Why people just don't want to see him shine? He is Captain America. Fuck it. All right. So, but the second one, the second one, if I'm being honest, would have to be Peter. Because that was Iron Man's like

next up. That was his boy. I think it has to be. I can see that. Yeah. Except nobody knows who Peter is right now. So, yeah, that's the issue. But I think Peter was, if it's Falcon for Cap, I think for Iron Man, it was Spidey. Spidey's the only other person. You'd be like, all right, you're an Avenger now.

Yeah, who else? There's really, oh, banner? No, maybe. Thor? But Thor is often his own thing. He's not like, yeah, he's not really on the team. He's not that. I'm gonna be real. Thor don't be around enough. Like, Thor comes in when there's really big situations.

But if we, Thor, you know, a lot of stuff that happened and Thor was gone. I guess you can say that about Hulk, too. It's just a little tangent there. I like it. As far as Modoc to me, the question we have in the rundown here is, is this hilarious, ridiculous, stupid, or all of the above? It's all of the above. It's all of the above.

Moly, God's death scene was great. So amazing. You were like a brother to me. Yeah. I can't believe they had the ball. He had literally been a good guy for maybe five minutes. Yeah. Like beyond that.

He just shoved his face in Kang's face. He's like, ah! Yeah, he's been a good guy for five minutes. Okay. Legitimately some of the funniest stuff, in the film. And like when he dies and Paul Ritch is like,

it's been a long day, man. A lot of us happen today. It's just great. It's so great. Quantum round. Maybe amongst the most fantastical, different, unique settings

that we've seen in an MCU product. Did it work, Charles? No. I see what they were going for. I'll be honest. but I think in a post and or world, it's like, I don't give a fuck

what the freedom fighters were fighting for because they didn't have enough time. I just wasn't emotionally invested with them. When they started dying, I was like, who the fuck cares? I just do think that the quantum realm visually, they're like, look at all this cool shit. There's a dude with broccoli for head.

And I'm like, all right, word. But they didn't make me care about the world enough. And I'm going to be honest, it was CGI soup. I was looking at the scene sometimes. I'm like, what am I looking at? Like, what's going on? I wish they were in the real world, if I'm going to be honest.

It's also, like, difficult. Like, this was my biggest thing with the original Ant Man versus this. You can kind of understand scale. You can understand, like, there's like a weird world tangibility when, like, he's holding onto the grooves of a record as it's spinning to, like, get its speed right. Where, like, okay, he's just, like, really, really tiny in this tiny world, but he's normal size. but then when he's really big, he's still just really tiny

because he's in the quantum realm. Like that doesn't really, it's a weird scaling thing that just like always kind of took me out of it where I'm just like, oh, he's just in like a tiny world. So couldn't he just like get big and small again, infinitely small?

Like that's just the weird comic book logic that bugged me quite a bit from this one. And also just like we didn't care that much about the characters inside of this world. Yeah, I mean, that's a big one for me. I honestly can't remember. remember their names. You know, as soon as I left the theater, you'd have been like, I care about the one of the

ones, William Jackson Harper, and the lady. The guy that wanted holes to me wore my heart by the end. It was cute. It was cute. I like, I like cute. But I wasn't really messing with them. And the thing that the thing about this movie, just let me be real, the thing about this movie that I miss in Steve, like, you talk about like the scaling of the stuff. I miss

Atman being small and small things being really big Like I know it's like a dumb It's like a dumb thing You guys are right I like Like remember when he's in the tub

And like like the huge waves Coming in the first one When the train is Thomas the tank engine is coming And it hits him And it falls I miss those type of jokes See and this is

And this is A really interesting Critique and Something that they were probably probably not anticipating people caring about because this was Ant Man's graduation movie. This was probably supposed to be a movie

where Ant Man doesn't rely on some of the old things that we saw about the character and that we see him in a grander scale, right, up against an all-time batty in a brand new world where we were supposed to get a different view and a different perspective of the character. And I feel like what you guys are saying was they didn't give you enough grandiosity

for you not to want the same things out of the character that you had seen before. So they didn't really succeed in switching that for you a little bit. Going off that, do you also think part of the tonal problem is that, like, the first Ant-Man movie is a heist movie where there was, it almost seemed like they shoehorned in this where they're like, all right,

now it's time for Ant Man to basically steal the multiversal engine from blah blah blah, blah. And it just felt, and I had a moment where I'm like, oh yeah, Ant Man is supposed to be like

a burglar who was really good at like getting things. But it just felt tacked on. And I almost missed it. I missed the Ocean 11th aspect of Ant Man not really being a hero. I mean, you know I miss the most?

What? I miss Luis the most. most. Hell yeah. Yeah, I mean, you guys, you know, fuck Luis, man at the end of you.

What do you have against Joy? How dare you? It's not, it's not, let it go, niggas. Like, you guys, we're talking about,

we can't be that, we can't be that connected to Luis that we can't move on. Let this motherfucker live for a second. He'll be back, maybe.

I like Luis. I like the whole fucking wacky crew. We want some different shit right now. Can we stay on our different shit with Luis? Luis is probably somewhere. You think Luis wanted to be in the quantum realm? He'd have been shit in his pants down.

I think that would have been a better movie. It would have been such a better movie. If Luis just like walked in and he's like, hey guys, I brought some stuff for dinner and he got sucked into the quantum realm too. Imagine if Luis had to go against Kang, that shit would have been hilarious. Oh, my God. And then he leads the freedom fighters. Ant-Man, Quantumania, the death of Luis.

No, actually, him leading free and fires would be funny. But this is what I'll say. There is something else that they attempted to do in the film. And that was make this movie about a family coming together. Because when we first see them, when we first see them, there's so much that they don't really know about one another, right? Scott is unaware of what Cassie and them are doing down in the basement. Okay.

Fuck, it doesn't seem like Janet's that aware of it either. Janet hasn't really talked to hope about everything that's going on to the quantum realm. The movie, there's some subtext in the movie where this is a family that kind of really gets to know each other through this experience. And they're a whaler family at the end of the experience. The problem is that part of the movie doesn't really work. like there wasn't enough groundwork laid down for that part of the movie to have worked. You had to have had a much stronger script

and much more, or much bigger, should I say, stakes in terms of the family dynamic of this to have worked. It kind of didn't work that part of it. That's what they were going for. Was it missing a first act? Like what you're saying is, like, I thought the first act of, like, it's going to be a family movie should have been what you're talking about, Dan, which is just like you learn about Cassie, you learn about all of them and where they're at in life.

If you're coming in at 206, you don't have time. That's what I was going to ask, yeah. Right. If you're coming in at 206, you don't have time. You, like, you, like, you, and the relationship between Scott and Cassie was interesting, almost weird in a way. It was weird because there was enough tenderness. to where they, I couldn't tell whether or not they were getting along or whether or not

they weren't getting along, or they didn't want to make a decision about Scott and Cassie's relationship to me. It was like, oh, you know, there's some things he doesn't know about her and some things that she does that he doesn't like, but things are still cool. They still joke around and have,

if this would have been really about a man reconnecting and finding his daughter, they'd have had to go a little bit deeper with the schism between them. And I just don't know that they had much there to kind of work with, you know? I think part of it was time, right? It's a two-hour, three-minute film. You know, there's only so much you can do with all the, all the things that they were trying to accomplish in this movie.

You know, maybe if it's 220, 225, we get a little more of Cassie and Scott and hopefully a little more Kang. But I think to Van's point, their chasm would have to be deeper. just like in terms of bridging it to make you feel like it was overall like something that was really meaningful and special. It's like, yeah, I just think with the time that they had, it wasn't, like, they only spent like, what, five minutes, maybe like 10 minutes total up in the real world, right? Like, we're like seven minutes. They're like into the quantum realm when the movie starts.

Like, there's no time. And even the time that they do spend in the real world, it's not serious movie making it all. No. He's reading his book. He's getting out of prison. They have dinner. And boom, they're in the corner world.

Like, that was it. That's, that's the beginning of the film. So I'm going to talk about the freedom of fires. I want to talk about Bill Murray. You give me a trail. Let me tell you who Bill Murray is to me. Who Bill Murray is to me is an automatic green light to have a good time. I haven't had a good time with Bill Murray and Lawson translation.

And that's not like what you would call a fun movie. But it's Bill Murray. Murray. He's just a, he's a bounce, he's a human bounce house. You just, seriously, he's just fun, fun. We're going to have fun. We're going to laugh.

We're going to get a little chuckling. It's the whole thing. You know what I mean? I feel like this movie did a bait and switch to me with Bill Murray a little bit. Not that he wasn't fun, he was, but there's like nothing to do there. It was a nothing. It felt like a stunt. It was like, you got Bill Murray, and this is what y'all have him doing?

Like, what are you? Yeah, I thought Bill Murray was going to be in the MCU. It's kind of a little bit of stunt casting to throw something in the trailer and make us think that the movie was a little bit bigger than what it is. And I think Marvel is kind of having a, there's a little habit that they're getting into of being able to sell these movies, but not make them. You know what I mean? I don't mean, once again, I thought this movie was fine.

I liked it. But there is a little bit of blowing smoke up a motherfucker's ass that kind of like went into this. What did you guys think about Bill Murray in this? Definitely. I mean, I think. I definitely knew he was ops. I knew he was ops as soon as he rolled up. When he corrected her, he was like, it's actually Lord.

And I was like, oh, yeah, this dude, he's a D bag for sure. But in terms of him being in the movie, I mean, I don't think Bill Murray was going to be stuck here for the long run. You know, he literally, it looked like he was on set for, what, two days, max? I mean, like, they get that big octopus to get him out of there, you know? I don't know if Bill Murray's long for the MCU, so him not being around for longer, didn't really affect me. But, you know, this is what they do.

They get, Glenn Close was in an MCU movie one time, you know? Like, this is what, one time. She was in Guardians One. I was like, oh, man, that's really, Glenn Close, that's nuts. And then she just never shut up again. you know, she's definitely dead because they went because Thanos went crazy on Zandar. But it's, that's what the MC does.

You take, you know, big time actors, you put them in a little funny outfit and you make them say funny things and then you kill them off. And then it's cool. Look, kids, I was in an MCU movie. Look at me. But here's the thing,

when you do with Boeh Murray, I was like, if that was it, I'm like, okay, but you had Cheaty from Good Place in this movie. I'm like, y'all couldn't have given my man, William Jackson Harper, a little bit more of a room to cook? Like you just There goes

There goes our Reed Richards casting for him So again Yeah, y'all It's a lot of y'all It's a lot of Collective y'all's Y'all's

Y'all told me he was Ray Richards. Y'all told me he was Reit Richards. Y'all lie. Like y'all, everybody, he showed up in the movie I'm looking at him.

I'm like, I don't think he had a Fantastic Four, bro, but I'll be real with you. I don't think he's in a Fantastic Four, bro, y'all lied.

Every time we talk about Reed Richards, it's a lie. I guess Chris Inskey ended up not being a lie, sort of in a way. Technically, but we don't know if he's actually going to be our... He won't. We won't. We won't. We won't.

It's going to be... They're going to do something crazy. They always do something crazy. It's going to be like Steve Buscemi. I'm about saying, they're going to cast Charles. Charles. They'll get you little... They'll put you gray on the sides, my boy. Man, I already got gray's in my hair. Like I was combing my beard, man.

Fuck. Wow. He's getting bad. Like, old man, Charles. I'm so happy. This is one of the best days of my life. Wow. I'm so glad that that just happened to you.

By the way, just to let y'all know, that's how this is going to go. You guys are on my ass so much about being old. All of y'all. All is about to happen to all of y'all. Steve is going to be complaining about his. sore knees pretty soon. Oh, I've got bad knees.

I'm there. Here's the thing. My goddaughter is in high school, and I told her when I was in high school, and she was like, she tried to comfort me. She's like, it wasn't that long ago. And I was like, God, damn. I was like, bro.

Woo. All right. Let's talk about the post. Let's talk about the post credits right now. I'm just going to read this because this is well written. Given that this version of Kane is the posed of this movie. Do you think it was a missed opportunity to introduce him in a more high-stakes fashion,

possibly in a different M-C-U entry. We've kind of touched on this. But I do want to talk about the fact that this cane, the cane that we got, has come and gone. And Marvel is, you know, we joke about Kane being O-N-2. But it's something to be said about the fact

that we're being given versions of King, and as soon as we get these versions of King, these variants of King, they snatch them away and go, you haven't met the real guy, yet. Okay? This has happened twice. It might happen again in Loki because we got Victor Timely in another post-credancy. So this has happened twice. Do you guys feel like they're not sure how they're going to do this yet? Probably not true. Or is this setting him up to be a much

bigger threat than any villain we've had in Marvel before? What do you feel about this big bad, this character of Kane the Conqueror or not? Do we even know King to Conqueror? Still? after we've seen him. I'll say with this, I think that I'm really, really worried about King Dynasty and Secret Wars from just the part of like,

I think I'm multiverse-out in terms of Hollywood in general. And part of me is a little bit scared with the like, oh, that's not the real king. Oh, it's a variant. Oh, because it's starting to feel like that was a dream,

that was a dream, and this never mattered. And it's like, bro, can we just, just give me, Kang. Like, please. Like, I wanted, when they killed off this version of King,

I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, y'all got too much tip on your chip. Bring the Conqueror back. I want to see more of him. I ended this movie being like, this seems like a wasted opportunity, if you're going to kill him off. That's, and I think the, we'll talk about the Loki post credits in a minute,

but as far as our, like, understanding of how to sell Kang to the masses and make him that prime level threat, I think anybody that's actually absorbed Loki season one has a pretty actually good understanding of what Kang can be. And when we see Victor Timely as opposed to like the council of Kangs,

they're like, okay, so this is the, like, Victor Timely, that's going to be the, like, one of the oldest versions of Kang that we could possibly bring on our side because he's not even influenced by time yet. He's this and this and that. When we see an infinite number of Kangs that to the untrained eye just look like,

okay, this one's got a funny hat. This one's got a beard. This one looks like Jacks for Mortal Kombat. Like, it doesn't matter who this guy looks like. It's just going to be like, oh, well, he's the guy that we fought in the quantum realm that Scott told us not to worry about, but he's here anyway. I fear that that's going to be how they ultimately sum up who Kang is rather than give us that download that we got in Loki, because that was the ultimate, like, poetic nature of what Kang should be. So the thing with Victor timely is that he is Kang Prime, right? Like he is the main version of King that had given the Avengers all the problems

that they had, you know, beat eventually. And he came back to 1901 AD. So maybe that version of King is actually, you know, the main King that we'll get throughout the MCU. I mean, I'm just spitballing here from, you know, comic history and stuff. But maybe these first two gangs were like, you know, little appetizers, little something that like introduces the character.

And now we might get our first meat potatoes, actual longstanding Kang villain in Victor Timely and Loki season two. But right now, you know, there's been a lot of Ballyhoo, a lot of talk about who Kang is as a character. You guys feel satisfied with the portrayal of the character as he exists right now. I do. I'm 100% okay. I love it.

Every time it's something different, but it's still somehow menacing and intimidating, you know, with both performances, the first Kang, or he who remains, you know, it was like a little Jolly Theater, Thespian fella. And this guy was no nonsense. I will beat the brakes off you for no reason,

but they still had the same essence of, don't mess with this guy. And so I'm really enjoying what Jonathan Mangers is doing so far as gang. Really, really quickly, I just want to say, these movies got to get more creative. We're doing the multiverse, bro. Like, y'all got it. Like, I'm sorry.

That first post-credit scene was a little weak. I'm like, y'all got infinite versions of king. Y'all can't show me any more, like, interesting versions than, like, Egyptian king. Like, y'all can't give me iron lad. You know what I'm saying? Y'all can't give me... Something iron lad was in it. Iron lad was in it?

So, this is the deal. So you have Ramanut and a mortis. The other cane that was bald and had, like, the metal-type body, you're either looking at kid immortis or perhaps maybe that's their take on Ironland. If that's their take on Ironland, that's whack.

Who else could it be? You know what I'm saying? Me and our friend Jason Concepcion were talking about this. And I don't think that it was Iron Lad, but maybe it was, you know, or some version of Iron Lad. What do you think? I don't know if that was Iron Lad,

but I kind of, I just wished that first scene, I was just like, guys, this is the multiverse. Can we get a little bit more crazy with it? Is the same feeling I had about the pizza bites? The same feeling I had about the probability scene would have like, anything can happen with Ant Man? I'm like, can we see some different costumes here? Y'all telling me all these probabilities are the same Ant Man and one basket

Robbins dude. I feel like they had, like, we've been, they've been teasing the multiverse for so long. And I'm just like, yo, we can get a little bit more comic, book accurate. We can get a little bit more wacky. Don't get show me more Kings. I don't know. I felt the first post credit scene left me wanting. The second one was cool. I got excited. So what did you guys think about the first post credit thing?

I thought it was cool to see more of this in Rommitou. I wasn't expecting it. What did you guys think? Yeah, seeing the Council of Kings was like nuts. I never thought I'd see that on screen. So seeing him pop out the shadows with the full Egyptian get up, I was like, oh, man, that's, we really hear. we really hear. I think to Charles's point, yeah, you know, we want to see a little more variation in the crowd, you know, but it was just cool knowing that the council of Kang's really, it's on the way.

No, I genuinely was thrilled to know that they're going to go this crazy for Kang and the rest of this entry of phase five. To see that they're not afraid to put Jonathan Majors in crazy costumes and hats and wigs and everything to make every possible iteration of Kang. as cool and unique as they can. This is a great sign. He was barking a little bit too much for me. I'm like, major's calm down. There's white folks in this audience.

Like, got her last. I thought a little uncomfortable. I was like, man, come on. They were just going crazy. It's a bunch of different cakes. Like, bro, look, this guy, there's all kinds of different various of king,

bro. Not all of them are going to be on our side. You know, some of the various of king. You're going to have all kinds of kings, bro. You're going to have a king? We're going to have a maga king. Okay. All right.

You got a contest. What? I don't have any problem with the white. What can't say that? That's a word that people say. Bleep it. But let people kind of bleep it. Bleep it.

Blip it. Blip it. I can't say that word. Why can't fucking Charles say that? Bleep it. I never said that he couldn't. I was just like, okay. You got to buckle up.

You got upset. You know what I mean? It's a lot of different kings. Not a high rate on a rodent tomatoes. Damn, they, they go. not this one. They go an OD if we be in real. 53%.

Jesus Christ. As of this recording, it's tough. Second rotten score in EBSU history. After the Dark World? Man, and then it's, yeah, internals at 47%. Jesus Christ. Yeah. There ain't no way this is the second worst

MCD. Like, ain't no way. No. But I do want to tell you guys something like, what does it say that both of these scores come from two more recent MCU interests. I know, I have a theory. I mean, I don't want to put too much weight around rotten tomatoes.

I really don't because I think that that's more of a problem than it needs to be. But I think with the remnants of phase fours entries and the start of this, obviously there's a new gear here for Marvel that we're coming into where there's a large amount of product that they're pushing out. And some might say that it deters the overall quality of what we've gotten because we've gotten a new MCU thing show or otherwise seemingly once a month, once every two months, three months since the pandemic began. And I think now we're kind of starting to see like,

all right, maybe if we pump the brakes and we take our time and we see what else we can do with all of this, maybe we'll have a, a bit more of a firmer hand on the wheel here. Do I think that Ant Man Quantum Mania is the worst MCU movie or the second worst MCU movie? Absolutely not. I think that

this is probably the beginning of the slowing down of the MCU machine to focus on quality over quantity. So I got a quick question for you guys. What's the worst MCU Spider-Man film? The worst MCU Spider-Man film? Yeah. The second one.

Far from home? Yeah, I'll be honest with you, I think they are all a tie. That ain't, come on. I'll be real with you. The first one is good. Well, no, no, no. When I say they're all a tie, I'm not saying that they're all bad. I'm saying that all of those movies are exactly the same to me.

Like, they're all a tie. Like, I don't think, I don't think the second one Kaliga likes the most. Like, seriously, yeah. The second one, I'll, I'll, I'll, It was great. I like that movie. That's the one Calico likes the most. I think they're all the time.

That's what I think. It's really funny because it's like, looking at Ron Tomatoes ranking of all the, all the movie, all the MC movies, they have far from whom at 10. And they've got Civil War at 11, Winter Soldier at 12,

Dr. Strange at 13, Infinity War at 15, right? You know, Ant Man and the Wasp is above Avengers Infinity War. of Ant Man in the Washington was, as an 87% Infinity War as an 85%. Let's be serious.

Yeah, let's be serious. Like these, you know, these things, you know, we shouldn't put too much stock into them, regardless of, you know, what the numbers say.

And for this film, I think people have just had enough. You know, I thought we got there with, with Dr. Strange, most of madness, and Thor, love and thunder.

But for whatever reason, I think people got re-energized with Kang and when the movie you know, didn't deliver 100% the way they thought it would. Gamma was like, nah, this is, no, they wasn't having it.

53? No, come on. Like, have some decency. Have some decorum. It's not that bad. But let me be there, guys. We were great. I think at least critics,

y'all know me, I think critics were great in the MCU on a curve pretty much until end game because we had never seen it before. We were watching history being made. So even when the movies were bad, nobody really wanted to do it.

admit it, but we're like, bro, but like, come on, never seen this before. And now that we've seen it before, I think now we're coming to the mean a little bit more. We're like, critics are a little bit more willing to be like, actually, this one sucks. I don't know if it's the mean. I think it's like totally the other side where it was like, hey, you know, it was cool. We'll give it a, we'll give it a, you know, eight or nine where it's like, hey, man, it was, it was cool. Give it a five. you know, they're like

going, you know, swinging the pendulum a little too much to the other side, I believe. It's not, I'm going to, I mean, you already know my agenda. It's Bob Capchek's fault. You know, it's all, we can blame him for everything from phase four on, right? And, you know, what's my man, Iger, get back in the wheel? You know what I'm saying?

What's the real? Get back in the chair? We're going to be straight. No worries. So this is my thing. I think the 53, for this movie is incredibly important. It's basically because of all of what you guys,

basically because of all of what you guys are saying. I think this has nothing to do with Ant Man and the Wasp Quantumania as a movie itself. I think this is the beginning of a cultural revolt against the MCU. It's what happened to the MCU. It's what happens to all things that exist in this nature. it becomes a cultural mainstay.

You accept it, right? Take a artist like a J-Z. You saying this is there a Kingdom Come? Yes. And let me tell you, and let me tell you about Magna Carta. And let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. If you rank Kingdom Come as an album in hip-hop,

it can't sound bad. There's too many talented people that were around. making the album, right? It's too many great producers, Jay's a great rapper, all of this stuff. But if you put that within the scope of his career, what you're saying is that you won't accept that from him. That's what you're saying.

You're saying, it's not that I won't accept this because there's so many people in hip-hop that are making things that are worse than this. What you start to say is, I won't accept that from you. I'm no longer, you've reached the point to where that is not acceptable from you. You have to do something more daring, more creative, more hardcore, or whatever.

It took a little while for Jay to find his footing in terms of what that was going to be, if we're being honest. Nobody wants to talk about the period where hip hop was kind of legislating whether or not they still liked Jay Z. Everybody, that all gets washed over now. Right? But American Gangster came out. That was great. But it was a concept album, The Blueprint 3 came.

came out and people were like, ah, I'm not sure. And then Jay, Jay really got people back with Washington's throne. If you really, if you really want to remember it in the real way, anyway, whatever. I mean, and I will argue just really quick, 4-444 was probably the time where he figured out how to make a solo J album as an old man. That is the thing, right? Four-four-four-four-four, okay, cool. So what this is really, what this really signifies to me is that Marvel is out of goodwill.

People are saying we won't accept that's cool, but we're not going to accept that from y'all. If this is y'all now, it's whack to us. And people weren't really

ready to make that statement as much with Eternals. They weren't ready to make that statement as much with multiversive madness. They weren't ready

to make that statement with love and thunder. They'd been beaten almost and with TV shows in there too, they've been beaten into saying no. They have been.

You're not wrong. I'm not disagree. They've been beaten into, I liked this movie. And I think that this 53% is unfair. However, I understand it. I understand it because what you have

are a bunch of people there saying, we're just not going to accept this from you guys anyway. We're not just going to donate money to Marvel anymore. Like whatever it is. I mean, look, we have to. You know what I mean?

But what I'm saying is you donate the money when you go see the movie and you lie about how good it was. And we're going to be honest, we was lying a little bit. Like post end game, I think everybody was giving Marvel

the benefit of the doubt. Black Widow hits. Black Widow wasn't bad, but it wasn't it. Spider-Man was good. It delivered, but, you know, multiverse of madness, Eternal, Thor, Love, and Thunder.

I feel like everybody was like, nah, nah, but wait till Multiverse and Madness. Wait till Black Panther. This goes back to, this goes back to my rap analogy. When Blueprint 3 came out, I remember saying,

oh, yeah, I didn't really like it that much. It was, I like it better now than I did then. But do you don't know how many die-hard J fans were calling me a fucking hater? Because they were,

because they were like, you just, you just have something against it. I'm like, Or this could be whoever that we're talking about. It doesn't have to be Jay. He's the biggest guy. It could be Drake.

He could be whomever. Hey, CLB comes out. I'm like, yo, this is not a very good album. This is, you know, it's cool music, but it's like not that big of a deal. Oh, you just don't like that thing. It's like people, they build up such goodwill that we can't accept when something is less than what we want it to be.

But that little period of uninspired, criticism and discussion only lasts for so long. You can push people out of that. And I think that we're starting to see here with a movie that's probably being unfairly maligned. I'm sorry, Jomey. But that that's kind of happening here. What are you going to say, Joe?

My question is, is it because it's an Ant-Man film versus, you know, we like Dr. Strange as a character. We love Thor as a character. I mean, Black Panther, Wakana forever had its own thing going on. Right, like over the last few, like last year or so, we've been like, these movies ain't really, like, supposed to, but the Ron Tomatoes and hasn't reflected it, although the discourse has discussed the unevenness. Now, if this movie comes out, the first two Ad Man films, you know, aren't super beloved,

even though, like, on Ron Tomatoes are not doing too bad. Like, they're both, like, I think, like, the mid, like, you know, mid, like, you know, mid, teens or whatever. So is it just like, oh, it's an man, bro. Like, you know, we like Thor. We like that strange. We don't really fuck with an ad man like that. So why would we come out here and get this thing, you know, a high score,

even with its mid, you know? Does that have something to do with it, you think? Or am I just tripping my, am I seeing some of this up there? I just think people are cranky. I think people are tired. I think people need a break. If it wasn't Ant Man, it would have been something else. Like, let's be honest.

Like, let's say Ant Man, they didn't do it. Antman, they would have done it with the Marvels. They probably will still do it with the Marvels. I just think people are tired. I'll be real. I don't even really want to see the Marvels. I want to see the Marvels. I'm with Vare, bro.

I don't care. I really don't care. I want to see the Marvel. I want to see Kamala Khan shine on a big stage. Yes. I don't see a shine on the big stage. 1,000%. Wait, Van, are we just being haters?

Are we the only... Are we just real? Do you guys hate women? Wow. Can't believe you guys. Y'all ain't doing that to me. Because y'all know. Y'all have to say whatever.

You have to say whatever. I didn't really want to see this shit that much besides King. If they wouldn't have put King in this shit, I'd have been like, that's cool. And then they put Modoc in it and you fell in love. Yeah. Look, here's the thing with the, when I say I don't want to see the Marvel's, this is what I mean. I was super excited to see Captain Marvel, like super excited to see it. And it was whack.

And there's nothing that's happening. since then with any of these situations that makes me excited I'll just be honest with you that makes me excited to go and see the next movie there's nothing that happened in

Miss Marvel there's nothing that happened in one that makes me super excited to go see the next film I'm going to see it but it's not like I'm super like I'm super like I'm

want to, I'm going to see it, you know. Look, I don't really want to see Flash. I was really excited to see Flash, but all of the bullshit that's around, uh, Ezra Miller, I don't know when they're going to break into a bank. Like, do a bank heist. I fully expect to see them outside, like,

getting it on with the LAPD heat style. I don't know what's going to happen. With that, can we get to the midnight beach? No, no, no, I'm just saying. So it's like, there's a lot of things. I really don't know what's going to happen with them. All right, midnight meter rankings. Now that we've given our thoughts on the movie,

it's time for each Midnight Boy to give Edman, Quantumania, their personal score on the Midnight Meter. The Midnight Meter is a regular ranking of 1 through 10 with scores of 11 and 12 reserved for game-changing and iconic events in fandom. I am going first. This is as solid as seven as I've ever given up. Really?

Yep. This is as solid a seven as I've ever given out. I liked it. I didn't love it. It's not an eight because that would mean a strong like. It's not a nine because that's the beginning of love and it's not a 10 because, you know. I liked it. I didn't love it.

I had fun. It wasn't perfect. It's a solid as seven. I'm telling you right now, at the end of the year in the re-ranking, I will not re-ranking. I will not re-rank this movie. This movie is a seven. This movie is a seven. I promise you, this movie is a seven.

This movie is a five. Like this movie is a five. Oh, gosh. Christ. Wow. I get to the end of the year having to re-rank shit. I'm standing on my shit. I'm no longer going to be influenced by the lame stream media.

I'm sitting, like, I'm standing on my word. This is a fucking five. All right, Charles DeSantis. Hey, don't do that to me. I'm a man, it's a seven. It's a good, solid seven, enjoyable movie, not perfect. But you won't leave the theater hating yourself. So definitely a good seven.

I'm with the rest of the majority here. This is a seven for me. I was very close to give it a six, but we don't do point fives here. And I think Jonathan Major is in some really incredible humor, nudges it into the seven for me. Okay. So let's do it.

A five from Charles, which everyone in their mother expected. Charles, I'll tell you something about yourself, brother. What? And this is with love. You're predictable. Wow. No, because this is what I hate.

No, because y'all... When I'm nice, when I'm not Coke, baby, when I'm just like nice, like, oh, it was cool. Y'all, like, y'all, you be in fit, Charles. Like, come on. We even know when you're going to be nice. because some off-the-wall movies gonna come out.

Aquamago come out. Like some off-the-wall movie's gonna come out. Some off-the-wall movie's gonna come out. I mean, they're gonna, I don't know, they're gonna make Jimmy Olson the movie. And the rest of us are gonna go see the movie, like, what the fuck is going on it? And Charles is gonna be like,

that shit was fucking off the chain. I loved it. You know what I mean? And so we all know. I'm just letting you know. No, but be real. But be real. I'm the canary in the coal mine.

Mone fuck has killed me. I'm like, yo, this shit's whack. Everybody's like, shut the fuck up, Charles. Shut the fuck up. Six months later, you're like, hey, yo, I gotta be real. That shit was kind of whack. Sometimes, sometimes.

That's, I can't got to be real. Sometimes that's true. But there are all movies here that we've drank the Kool-Aid on. Oh, I'll drink the Kool-Lade on movies. There's a lot of game left. Charles can still very much drink the Kool-A-Lade on. something this year. A lot of game lost.

Oh, I've been bamboozled. Don't worry. I've been bamboozled, all right? I watched Spider-Man no way home. That was just like, yeah, this shit's fire. And then on that airplane ride, back home, I was like, man, this shit ain't hitting like I thought it was. Right.

It happens. And by the way, the theater experience is very important for this because our theater was really having a good time with Ant Man and the Was Quarnton. It was. What I've heard is that people have gone to theaters with different critics or particularly at the premiere and that the movie didn't play as well. Our theater really, really had a good time with Ant Man and the Watch Quantum Mania. And I'll have you guys know something else that both Amanda Dobbins and Sean Finlayson.

Oh, God. Sean Finacy liked this movie. Wild. Wildness. No, bro. Amanda Dobbins said it wasn't the worst. See, we're talking about the real film people. We're talking about inside the actors' studio,

not even the actor's studio. It's inside the actors' studio. We're talking about some of the most educated and articulate film minds here at the Ringer, which I consider the big picture to be definitely the grown-ups talk. Okay? They liked it, so that means something. And I think that has to do with the fact that they were in the same screening that we were in.

And for our audience, the movie played. All right, once again, we got three sevens and a five from Charles. Charles, you want to stay with five. I'm being generous with the five. I'm staying on that. This is the gear of honesty. And at the end, when we re-ranked shit, I just want to know. We're going to calculate and we're going to see who changes and who doesn't.

Who's a real ranker? Who's not? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, Chuck Wackett? Who the real ranker at? Y'all ain't no real rankers?

Real ranker? Y'all ain't no real rankers? Who are the real? Y'all ain't no real steppers? Here's the thing. This is what we're going to do. Because I'm glad I'm all, you know, I'm always thinking about a bit. Bits, bits, bits just coming to my head.

What we're going to do, and I need you guys to keep it real. Right? No, I can't say it. I'm gonna get with Steve and me and Steve are going to do it because if I say it, it'll change everything. Okay. Okay. All right.

All right. If I say it, it'll change everything. All right. Whatever. Okay. You guys, that's the first MCU movie of the year down. Here at the midnight movie. I think we get a pretty good job, guys.

We got some films coming up here. What do we got in March? We got Shazam. Shazam. Oh, we got to see that. We got Mando. Fury of the vaccine. We got Mando.

That's what it's called. They changed the name of the movie. Yeah, that's true. It's true. They changed the name of the movie is now Shazam, Fury of Pfizer. Do you think the big bad of that's going to be Kyrie? He's just going to jump out.

Break up the Shazam family? Caii is on his side. No, he's going to be the summon. He's going to be. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Kyrie will be one of them. The, like, shit, the big bad of the movies is going to be a big syringe.

Did you guys hear the tagline? What? Moderner Times, Moderna Solutions? All right. Wait, but real quick, real quick, could you imagine if Billy Basson, like, yell Shazam, and instead of turning the Captain Marvel, he turns into Kyrie, that shit would be dope. That'd be hilarious. That'd be so dope.

Out there's dribbling through people. It doesn't want to take the vaccine. It's his body. This is the one to take the vaccine. But to say that shit, when you got a movie to promote, nuts. This motherfucker want to move to Montana.

He wants to have a ranch. He wants to get away from all of it. The people at D.C. just can't be happy about some of these developments, man. D.C. has the worst luck. I'm telling you, bro. I'm telling you, bro. D.C. has the worst luck. It's not going to stop.

They keep doing it. Super, bro. Superman. Superboy starring Chris Brown is coming. Why? All right. That's the wrap. Follows on socials.

Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok. Save Jomi's job. He needs that Selena 7. Don't forget, you can catch Van and Charles and Malinjo. Van is me. Their reactions is deep dives into the last of us on the Prestige TV podcast feed.

That is a fantastic show that's going on. I'm watching right after this. It's cooking with grease. Jomi doesn't like it. Who said that? So set up. I did not say that. Nobody ever said that.

I love The Last of Us. I'm enjoying it to the rim of as much as I can as long as it stops hurt in my chest every episode. Make me cry. Okay, on Monday, the House of Arr is going to give you their deep dive into Ant Man and the Watts of Quantum Mania. Guys got to listen to that because so much stuff that we probably missed that they're going to hit. First of all, we need to know who the third person in that, uh, And that cutscene is. He was the Scarlet Centurion?

He'll get to the bottom of it. Scarlett Centurion. Who is it? I'm not sure. We need to know. Okay. No Midnight Boys next week as well this week. I hope you guys take the time to get well.

Man, you can record by yourself if you want. You should go so. You should do a solo pod. Brough. I'll come in here and call an ISO and just cook. But I would never podcast when about the boys. I would never podcast without the boys.

But I'm going to come in here and do a podcast, but it's just going to be for myself. Because this is all, also this is. You should do the Howard the Duck Pod. You should just do a Howard the Duck. I should just do like, I should just do a pod about some stuff

that you guys don't care about, like about the original Masters of the Universe movie. It's just like, do a reaction pod to it. And just do it for fun. Well, that's he man, Courtney Cox. Shut up, Steve. Next Friday, the House of Ars is going to give you their Mando Watch list

Favorite Mando Moments Pod. Cannot wait. It's so great. Everything is great. Credits, our producer, is Steve, the architect Almie. Jomi Adirondon on socials. Hashtag mechanized Jome designed only for killing.

That's good. Jome would be Modoc. What? So if we were in this movie, Steve would be. man. Uh-huh. I would be king.

Jomey would be Modoc. Charles would be Cassie. Damn. What? What was that for? Wait, I'm just waiting. But really, if we're going to be real. Charles would be Ramatut.

Charles would be Ramatat. Actually, Charles would be King, for sure. I would be Ramatat. The old guy. The one that's out of you. But it should be mechanized a Deneron designed only for killing because then you'd be mad.

Maddock. Maddock. Maddoch. Maddo. You should keep that. That should be your new Twitter. Maddoch. Madoc.

Actually, Charles, Jamie, we changed that. Madok. Mechanize Adirond, design. Oh, we can't. That's dope,

Joeby, that's dope. Johnny hates it. That's it. Madok. You're maddow. Your new intro in the thing is Jomi Madok Adiron.

That's it. That's perfect. Charles's the cheese. All right. Take us out, bro. Quantum mania is a wrap. Some would say the midnight meter rankings were a little inflated. But at the end of the year, old Coke baby Chuck will be vindicated.

Okay, everybody, stay recording. Stay recording. Yes. I have the Dr. Umar clip. Oh, we can all listen to Luke to right now. Yeah. No disrespect to the Mexican. community.

You have a right to your own heroes and Mexican children have a right to see their heroes in their own image. I totally support the right of Mexican children to see heroes in their

own image. So respect to the Mexican community. With that being said, I did not take my children to see Black Panther 2 so they can watch

Mexican superheroes whip the shit out of black superheroes I'm afraid of them and I don't care if you don't like it As far as I'm concerned It was a total disgrace To watch a movie

where everything Black children held sacred About the Wakandans Was shown to be possessed by the underwater Mexicans Vibranium was supposed to be

native to Wakanda but Ryan Kugler and whoever else wrote that horrible screenplay gave the underwater

Mexicans vibranium too and made them as strong as the Wakanda Why would you build up Black Panther

as strongly as you did in the first movie only to turn around and tear the damn thing down. You can't, bro. Oh, my gosh. That's just so ex-duts.

It's insane. Also, clearly, Dr. Kumar hasn't read the comics. There's been Vibratium in Antarctica the whole time. Yeah. It's just what I'm saying. My point was that. It was a lot of people, because I didn't really care. But that was a whole sentiment.

That was a whole movement on. The thing is like, yo, man, we got our asses bus. And it's just like, it's got to look at it, bro. Kane, 0 for two. Falcon, bro. Literally the Chicago Bears of Marvel. You know, wins every once in a while with a good running quarterback. Could have had my homes.

Could I have my homes. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's just all of this stuff. And now you have, it's just interesting. It's interesting. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention. Why? Because real matters.

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