The Ringer-Verse - ‘Arcane’ Season 1 Recap and ‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’ Season 5 Premiere | Mint Edition

Episode Date: November 2, 2024

‘Arcane’ is back and Steve and Jomi are joined by ‘Button Mash’ host Ben Lindbergh to prepare you guys for Season 2 with a recap of Season 1 and a discussion concerning what they loved about the first season (8:03). Then the trio move on to a show they’ve waited a long time to cover, ‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’! They go over their thoughts about the beginning of the fifth and final season, as well as what they’ve loved about the show over the years. Hosts: Steve Ahlman and Jomi Adeniran Guest: Ben Lindbergh Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Steve Ahlman Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud,

you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Hello and welcome into the Ringiverse, your nexus feed for all things fandom. I'm Steve Allman. And I'm Jomey Dinner on. And I think this might be one of the greatest days of our podcasting lives, Jemmy. We're finally here.

We finally arrived. Full circle. I think, do we have nothing to do except the end of this month to just like close up shop and right into the sunset? Go to the promise lands. Scott, we got to be like Thanos, bro. We've got to go to the farm. Right. Sit down and look over a grateful universe.

I know, right, we did this. We're finally here, brother. We're talking about arcane. We're talking about arcane. We're talking about lower decks. Come on, man. It's nothing but smiles. Be something to me, man.

It really, really does. Be something to me, man. Welcome to Mint Edition. The once in a while podcast about all the fandom that you just can't live without, except for like three and a half years and then you'll live with this one. Yeah, sometimes just take a break. You know, animation that takes so long, you got to like draw, got a storyboard, then you got to do the key art,

and then you got a, you know, record video. Let me tell you something about the French. They have a rigorous work ethic, but also a very slow one. Listen, whatever it takes to get the job done, you know what I'm saying? How many years did it take Victor Wenayama, you know, to get ready for the NBA? Apparently only 18. So only 18, you know what I'm saying? If he was real, he'd have been done in 13.

Wow. Right? It's very true. I mean, at that point, he was only 6'3, so, you know, he could. He could have been the best guard in the league. Do we know when he hit that growth spurt, by the way? I don't know. Like when Wambi Yama went from like 5-10?

10 to 7-4. I think the funny thing for me is because he's always had like guard skills. Sure. But at some point when you like, you know, 6-11, 7-7 feet, but like, hey, brother, get on the block. Yeah. Right, let's get some drop-step scene. You know what I'm saying? Let's get some... Let's watch

some Akeem film. Enough of this KD stuff, bro. But the league's changed now. The league's changed. Right. I get it. Right. But neither here nor there. Well, while we're waiting for our Wembenyama podcast to blow. Maybe that's in another three and a half years. Isaiah, as our producer, he's producing for Kerm, who left us in our big moment, our momentous occasion.

Our moment of need. Kerm decided to jet off to the middle of nowhere. But Isaiah's here. He's the NBA guy. He's the NBA pod guy. Isaiah, hook us up. Let's get this Wembe Pod up. What you're trying to do? This is the Wembe Pod. Hey, there it is. Let's go.

There it is. Well, we have our Wembe Pod today, but more pods to come at you in the future. Some programming reminders for the Ring of Verse feed coming at you. Next week, the Penguin will be upon us once again. The Midnight Boys are going to be having you cover. with their instant reactions to the latest episode as well as the House of R is giving you their deep dive as well on the penguin. And our good friend Ben Limburg and the Button Mash crew are going to be back again with new video game greatness. What do we even have in store for us?

Who's to say? We don't know. But guess what? It's going to be great. Keep it under locking key. Exactly. Every single time it's on, we love to hear it. And today is November 2nd.

And that means it's the first day of what, Jomey? Mid-Venber. That's right. We come to you every Saturday in anticipation and reconciliation of Arcane, season two. Coming on three parts, we're going to be covering every part that comes out this weekend so you guys can watch it and listen to us on the weekly for all of November. So where can people catch up with that?

Oh, you know, if you are trying to get locked in on November, the Midnight Boys, house of our butt match anything ring of verse you can follow us on our social channels on Twitter on TikTok and on Instagram which is almost at 40K followers by the way Oh boy what do I got to say now when we hit 40K I'm gonna have you sing that one song off that YJ album You know what I'm talking about

You know the one you know exactly what I'm talking about Follow us at ring averse everywhere you can It pays my bills and I'm sure because they got mad at us They were like Jummy Why you always shout out to socials Save Jummy's job Save Jomey Scha. Why do you think we say, save Jomey Scha?

But not, follow. We're doing a lot of fun stuff. Like, I don't know if y'all see the clips. Clutch are going crazy over on the social. So please continue to follow. Amen. We're very excited on today's show. Mint Edition, November 2nd, 2024.

I'll wait for this for a long time. A most auspicious occasion is upon us. We are kicking off the month of Mint November, and we are finally talking about Arcane with our inaugural episode of recapping season one, released in 2021, which, by the way, was 50 years ago. Basically. As well as talking about the premiere of the fifth and final season of Star Trek lower deaths.

Don't say final. Don't do that. It's too real. They are saying that it's final. I regret to inform you that it is indeed final. I'm in denial. They have like multiple posters and advertising. I've been saying that it's the final season. I don't believe it. All right. Well, until then, we can't do it alone.

We have a lot of heavy lifting to do. and who to do it, who better to help us than probably the strongest employee at the Ringer and the actual one of our favorite persons to pod with and the enforcer of the Ringerverse

just wrapping up another amazing Ringerverse recommends Ben Falkin Lienberg Pound for pound inch for inch maybe the strongest I'm still waiting for my 510 to 7 foot 3 and a half

gross spurt. My gross spurt was two five foot 10. That's where I maxed up. That's where I spurted two and then I stopped. So I still got a ways to go to catch up with YMB. But I am excited to be here. Frankly, I am flattered to be here. I would answer the call any time you guys want to have me on Mint Edition, but I would not have missed this one for the world because I don't think it's hyperbole to say that the entire history of the ringerverse has been building up to this moment to this most momentous podcast in Ring ofverse history, at least for the three of us and possibly no one else. Oh, no, no, no.

This is company wide. I was just talking to Sean upstairs and he was like, yo, we guys doing it at Arcade. His eyes lit up. He was like, oh, my gosh, this is the Genesis. This is why we're all here. And you know the look of constant surprise on his face as he walks around the office. And when we have news about Arcane, he gets even more surprised. You know what I mean?

So this is enormous for us, guys. We are trading on waters that people, they didn't believe in us, guys. Except we'd never get here. It took us now. It took us a while to get here. It took us a minute. Look at us now. But that sounds like the Sean Fennacy, I know, huge lower decks head.

But really, like how many shoutouts have we had to Arcane and to lower decks over the years? How many Reddit threads have there been? When will they cover Arcane? Why haven't they covered Arcane? Look, we want to be covering Arcane constantly, right? But we're doing it. We're doing it now. I'm so excited for M-Vember.

Can't wait to listen to you guys. I join you anytime you want. This is just, this is huge. This is our Super Bowl. It really is. And before we get to the rest of our coverage and begin it, our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning for all of Arcane, the lush and deep text that is League of Legends lore, I guess.

And all of Star Trek Lower Decks as well. It's going to be fun time. It's going to be, we got five seasons to more or less talk. about before we get into our premier talk, but we're going to start with Arcane. And before that, we're going to start with Arcane. You've got to start with Arcane. We're starting with Arcane. Okay. Oh, the misery. Everybody wants to be my enemy.

Listen, imagine Joby. Let me say so. Fair the sympathy. By the way, by the way, first of all, I was going to Hollywood on Sunday, and Imagine Dragons was playing, and they had the whole place shut down, bro. You could have go nowhere in Hollywood. It was chaos like that. Yeah, that lead singer whose name I don't.

don't know, or I think he even has one, just singing around with his shirt off. I was like, Imagine Dragons, still moving weight like this? Oh, absolutely. Clearly. They absolutely are. Clearly. And I don't know, maybe it's y'all Netflix, but my Netflix, they forget in the skip intro button. So I was listening to skip intro button.

When I first watched it, I was like, guys, I don't really got. The visuals are great. Obviously, I was like, guys, we ain't got time for this little song. Y'all got it, though. This time, there was no skip intro button. So I was just in there. Oh, the misery. Yeah, it's the arcane connection, just catapulted Imagine Dragons into a higher level of celebrity, really.

They weren't really on the radar prior to Arcane. And I think it's a wonderful place to start, frankly, because when we started watching Arcane back in 2021, I think the first thing that we can honestly all say is how both visually arresting and impressive it's been to see over these years. we all rewatched the first season for it now and I think I could speak for all of us by saying that it still holds up all these years later and has pretty much been worth every single accolide that it's had

when it finally comes time for us to talk about it now it's amassed massive acclaim it's a critical darling it has a massive fandom and fan base from pretty much one of the biggest video games of all time it's amassed millions of players

League of Legends and when we hear about something that's an adaptation of League of Legends, a game that I think we could all safely say, none of us play or have any vested interest in. Hold on, hold on. I played it for three hours in high school. Right. I was really bad and I said they were trying to explain like top lane, middle lane,

jungle, all that stuff. And I was like, you know what, Timo? I was like, y'all got it. This is not for me, my boy. It's for y'all. But I gave it a shot, you know, three hours, you know, That's not nothing. Yeah. Ben, what's your history with League of Legends before we get to Arcane?

I'm not much of a Moab guy myself either. So I have dabbled, but not much more than Jomey. So I would not say that I have a handle on the lore. But that's one of the nice things about Arcane, is that it's very nob friendly, right? For people like us who are not super into the League of Legends lore, it obviously adapts some of that stuff, but expands on it greatly, changes some major aspects of it in a way that I think didn't really alienate the existing fan base and still manage to rope in people like us who didn't know that much about it. So it's really kind of the best of both worlds. It's just a great entry point into lull if you want to get into it. Or if you don't, if Arcane is just the final destination, then that works too. So the only bittersweet aspect of the fact that we're finally covering this show and that I get to talk about

these two with you to today is that these are the final seasons. Right. So that is sad. Yes. In that we don't want either of these to end, but there is a lot of plot to cover because Arcane ended, as you may recall, on a pretty notable cliffhanger that we've been just dangling off of for the past few years, seems. It ended with the bang, quite literally. Yes, almost. I guess we didn't even quite see the bang, but the bang was assumed. It was implied. I think the thing that stood out to me during the rewatch, I mean, a lot of things stood out, but I think the thing that stood out for me the most was not that like, because the show obviously still looks good.

right, but it still stands out, right? Like, even in 2024, I'm still like, man, the mixture of 2D animation, 3D animation, the fight scenes, even when there's just two characters talking and walking in the city, it's just remarkable to look. Every frame is a painting, quite literally. And in the three years since it came out, the fact that I'm still amazed, the fact that I'm still looking at this and going, wow, this is incredible, it just shows how awesome they animated this show.

I just think it's like remarkable. Like it's just every single word that you can use to describe how amazing the show is animated. I don't think we'd be here all day. If you had to go through every single word in the dictionary, it's just incredible to look at. Yeah. You could pause at any point on any frame and just print it out and posterize it,

basically. It just, it looks like art at all times. And it has a very distinctive style too. So it's not just beautiful, but it's beautiful in a way where you can immediately tell, oh, that's from Arcane. It's much like Spiderverse or Mutant Mayhem, right, where it has this look that is kind of unto itself. And that is maybe why we've been waiting so long for this thing, right? It took six years for them to make the first season and now a few years to make the second season because clearly a labor of love, clearly pouring over every instant. And that shows up in the finished product.

One other point I wanted to make is that when this came out, remember, we were still very much in the video game adaptation curse era. This was a few years ago, right? This was pre-the-last of us. This was pre-fallout. We had seen some somewhat successful video game adaptations. You know, Castlevania, of course, was great. Sonic, you know, some movies that made money. But people still talked about why can't they make a great video game adaptation?

And then Arcane came along. And that was the one that I think did more than anything. at that point to change the narrative about that entire genre. And it's so fascinating because I think when we talk about what makes a great video gay adaptation versus the thing that has kind of been holding back all of these adaptations for so many years is probably the thing that I think, in my opinion, is holding those adaptations back the most, which was the sort of like chaining plot and story into either lore or things that are.

winks and nods to gameplay, which run counteractive to a lot of good storytelling. And I feel like if in the case of arcane, it's actually arcane colon, League of Legends. And if you were to take away that colon, League of Legends, I think you could actually put this onto anything and just say, this is an outright great story that is actually not even married to anything. It helps me to not know much about League of Legends to begin with because everything like this is new to me. And even if I knew a hint about what they were alluding to, it completely goes over my head. And I'm still wrapped in with an amazing story. When you have winks and nods to a restaurant or a pub being called the lanes or things

that happen to be small like items that you can see in the game, they hold no actual value or there's no lynchpin that's actually. being, you know, leveraged for the sake of a story, it's actually the fact that, like, these are coloring in the world that we're seeing. And for the amount of time that it took to make this series, I think the care actually was put in the right places rather than where other adaptations lack being the things that, like, oh, what do people recognize? What do people need to see versus what do people like to be told? Jomi, like, if you were to, if you were to not know that this was a video game adaptation, would you have just said this was one of the, like,

Like, this is like Blue-Eyed Samurai. This is one of the greatest animated shows I've ever seen. Brother, man, I had no idea it was legal actions until Arcane League of Lesion showed up. Yeah, yeah, until you saw the bottom. Until I saw the bottom. I was like, oh, well, hey, I'm, I kind of know what that is. It's a video game? Oh, okay.

Yeah. No, I had no idea going in that this was a video game adaptation. And frankly, when you're talking about, like, all that little stuff that, like, those little nods and wings, those go completely over my head. I'm not locked in. I'm not on the wiki, you know what I mean? but it doesn't matter because the show is that good and that incredible. You don't need to have all that knowledge to enjoy it. It's just a plain and good, fantastic show.

And it's not as if we've never seen any series with some of these setting style tropes. I mean, we've seen steampunk, how many times steampunk sci-fi. We've seen the haves and the have-nots and the oppressors and the oppressed. And so it's sort of taking some of these familiar themes. And yet it feels so fresh. and just feels like it's putting its personal spin on everything. And that's partly the production values and just the way that it looks, the way that it sounds, how well acted it is. And just the mix of themes where you have your actual family, your found family, you have your real relationships.

You have LGBTQ themes. You have violence. You have adult drama, right? That this is a show that I probably wouldn't watch with my three-year-old. She did walk in while I was watching, rewatching season one. She was visually captivated, but it happened to be a sex scene. And so I paused it until she left the room. It's still a little early for that.

But it's really just like taking all of these sort of familiar ingredients. And there are aspects of the show that you think, oh, this is pretty thronesy, right? Or this is kind of Castlevania-esque. And yet it's just all thrown into this soup, into this stew. And it's done so artfully, so. tastefully that it feels like you're taking these familiar elements and you're just mixing them up into something that we've never seen before. So I have a question for you guys on the rewatch. When did you, at least like watching for the first time and then upon the rewatch, when did you realize

that like, oh, this show is special? Right. Because for me, it's episode three. Yes. Episode one and two, like they're good. They're forming the world and you're engaged. Right. but at least when people were like yelling at me, go watch Arcang, go watch, I was like, bet. First two episodes, I was like, okay, I kind of see it. This is good. I'm enjoying myself, but like, just a lot of gas for something that, like, you know,

is just, you know, good, right? And then episode three hits, and it's the crux of everything. The creation of jinx by Xander Dine, Milo, Clagher, like that entire, the second half of that episode is legitimately special television. And that's when it, like, just took off for me and I was like oh this is going to be one of my favorite shows that I've ever seen in a long long time

and before we get to like the like plot details of the season at large I think that the reason that I think that this show succeeds better than probably any other one that I've seen before is the fact that all of these like the creation of jinks you say something like that and that holds weight only within the context of the show to anybody else that might have the iconography or mythology of League of Legends to be known, that is more important, but it's just as well reinforced to people that have absolutely no idea. And I know that that's more of a sticking point for me to not know the world that you're coming into and treat everybody like an early adopter. But that means so much to me because when you're operating at a level like this, not only visually, but narratively,

it's so incredibly melodramatic. And I mean this is a compliment that the way that the art style and the animation serves these things, every bit of weight that anybody's character progression can be seen on their face or seen how when slow motion is used or when certain camera angles are used or when certain, like, whether something is rendered either in 2D or 3D to make something pop off the screen by contrast, all of those things have been made with tender love and care that look like they've been poured over for years as they have. I think to me, the thing that really made me go, oh, this is actually operating on a higher level

is the massive time jump that we get mid-season. And it frankly took me for a surprise because as the show has been paced up to this point, the endpoints for each episode feel a tad off to think about in conventional TV, like, lineage, or like progression. pacing to me felt a little odd until we had this time jump.

There was a moment when we have a character that's about to turn himself into the police and then it just stops and then the show begins with the like what would be a character's final stand to somebody else in the rest of their life. And that's how the episode begins. I never knew that a show that could just like operate that

could do that in Netflix's orbit in a binge model to where we just have little sort of, sort of chapterized versions. And that actually started to make me think that like, oh, maybe we're on to something here with the binge model of having like distinct chapters rather than dedicated week to week episodes. Ben,

do you think that like as much as we love people watching this and as much as we, we love people talking about this show, it's certainly been talked about a great deal. But do you think that it would have benefited a bit more from a more traditional structure. Like, we keep lamenting that the bear doesn't get released in weekly ways so that we can like actually have a discourse about it rather than just consume it wholesale. Right. I think it varies obviously based on the streaming service, based on the series. A lot of people watch the bear and consume the bear. However, it comes out. But it would be helpful for people like us, for podcasters, obviously.

It's, you know, inside baseball. Make my job easier. Please. Yeah. But Netflix, obviously, like, you know, they've been associated. with the binge since the beginning, they have transitioned away from that to the staggered release, the batch release model. But something like Arcane, I mean, so much anticipation has been built up. Now, sometimes you can lose that momentum if you have a three-year break. If you have, say, an invincible long mid-season break, right? They've put it themselves for that.

You sort of lose steam. In Arcane's case, maybe that's the case. But I would like to think that a lot of people have caught up with the series since it's been so highly acclaimed over the three-year break. This series still at 100% on Rotten Tomatoes, by the way, after all these years. You know, there are a lot of shows that are like 100 out of the gate and then inevitably someone comes along and spoils it all. Arcane, no, still, no one has anything bad to say about this series. I do think that re-watching it, I enjoyed watching it as a binge. So I don't know that it's a show that benefits so much from watching it week to week. But

I'm with both of you on the structure of the first season because sometimes a time jump of several years can be disorienting. Think back to Hot D season one, right, when you have cast changes and you're kind of trying to get your bearings here. If not for the springboard of episode three, which was so compelling, as Jomi said, then maybe you would have lost a lot of people when you're suddenly jumping several years forward. But I was so in after episode three. And like you, Jomey, I was not blown away by the first couple episodes. It was pretty, but I wasn't totally tapped in, as you would say. It took me a couple episodes because there's a lot of throat clearing and a lot of lore and here's the world and here are these kids and here's Vander and just a lot of scene setting there. And then episode three comes along.

The base violence necessary for change. Maybe the best episode of the season, but certainly the best pre-time jump. And then when you jump ahead several years, you see all of the fallout immediately from everything that happened in episode three reflected in these characters physically, psychologically. And from that point forward, it just builds and builds and builds up to the end of the season.

100%. I think post-time jump, the characters are definitely way more fleshed out, way more interesting. Do we want to get to specifics? Do you want to talk about specific characters right now? For sure. Let's go from the top.

Let's talk about jinks. pretty much our titular protagonist, antagonist, villain, and also hero who I hope makes it out alive and I want her redemption every day. I don't know, man, it's tough. It's tough, man.

When you got your sister chained up and you got her girlfriend chained up, you know what I'm saying? It's a lot to recognize stuff. Forget all the terrorist stuff that she was doing. Forget all of that. Forget all that.

You kind of, you know what I'm saying? You almost killed my girl. Might have been indoctrinated by, a bad dude might have been. She's been through a lot. Here's the thing with Jinks, right? And like I think I might have noticed this on my, the first watch, but the rewatch I'll lock this in.

Vysold. An incredible sell job at the end of episode three when she looks at her and she's like, you're a Jinks and she slaps her. You can't do that. Fundamentally, that's what this whole thing is about. You said this whole thing in motion. People like, hey, I know you just killed all my homies. For giving her her name?

What do you mean? Well, she literally hits her, calls her jinks, and then walks off, and then let Silco come and grab her, and then boom, we have all of this. If she had just been a little bit more composed, like, hey, you did kind of mess up and killed all the homies, but it's cool. We got to leave right now.

None of this happens. Oh, no, of course. And that's actually what I like about these first three episodes, how it just seems to be like this classic dramatic arc of misunderstanding upon misunderstanding about characters not meeting each other where they need to be at every single turn,

that domino effects into them being on complete opposite ends, both morally and like on the other sides of the law. Because like we can't, like you can't have that level of conflict and then put it on ice for a number of years without having massive repercussions of those things. And I loved it. I loved it all. A lot of cases of eavesdropping on a certain snippet

of a conversation that changes your entire understanding of your relationships to those characters. And then walking away before. Listen to the rest though. Yeah. You're the good stuff. Be patient. Just listen. Stand right there.

What are you doing? And all of that, of course, exacerbated by villains who are intentionally trying to pull the wool over people's eyes and distort things and lies, deception, right? And so Jinks slash powder has just been manipulated in so many ways and is clearly a damaged individual in more ways than one by the time we get to the end of season one. And so you're rooting for her, obviously. You want her to somehow come out of this okay. Maybe you're hoping for reconciliation. Can they just be sisters again? Can they go back to the way they were? Has too much happened? Can she become powder again? Is Jinks actually her true identity? Does she have to synthesize these two sides of herself somehow? I don't know exactly how that resolves. And yet, despite all of the horrendous things, that she's done. She's just, you know, she's been following orders. She's been doing those things under false pretenses.

And so there's a part of you as a viewer who, no matter what she does, is still saying protect jinks at all costs. And that's the beautiful part of the show because deep down, By just wants to see her sister back. She wants all of those things that she sees all that potential within her, even after all of the, you know, atrocities she's committed over the years. I think the thing that really hammers at home that, like, even as she's wild and you still feel some type of way is that her having the Milo and Clagger dolls around, you know, and hearing their voices. And it's like, oh, man, like, you did get your homeless killed and you do feel bad about it. But the only way you can, like, reconcile that is by talking to these people who haven't been here in many, many years. Yes.

You know, and you kind of do feel the type of way like, dang, bruh, that's tough. You know, despite all her mishaps, despite her, like, actively killing people. You know, you still feel the type of way because even though Milo kind of did suck at the beginning and Clagher was, you know, not the greatest help, but he was also there. Those were the homies. Clagher was there. He was there. He was around. You know, he broke down the wall, you know what I'm saying?

For sure. He's out there. But to see them, like, live through her in the twisted and just awful way that, like, she sees what happened and has to deal with that after, that after effect, that fallout. It's just like really, really sad to see. And so, again, despite all the nastiness that she's been involved with, you still feel a little thing for her in your chest. And I think the show does an amazing job of like having those two things operate on the same line.

And so no matter what, you're still like, ah, she kind of sucks. But also, she's been through a lot. And you just have to like kind of toy with that throughout watching the show. It's brilliant. And one of the many big questions surrounding season two, including such fundamental questions as, what is arcane exactly? Maybe we can figure that out before the end of arcane.

We're a little light on the titular arcane here. They mentioned it maybe like three times. Yeah. All in the first like two episodes. Yeah. And we're like, you point the fingers, you do the Leo sitting up in the chair. And then that's it.

You know, it doesn't matter. The show is great, but I'm also like, what do you mean, Arcane? What is that mean? Yes, exactly. It's like watching the Halo show. And it's like, when are we going to get to Halo exactly? I don't know.

The show is good. I do not mean to mention these two shows. Please. How dare you dirty this pod? That's like that's like going in our victim women Yamapar to mentioning Kendrick Nunn. You know what I mean? Bringing that into this palace. Yeah, you can't do that.

I apologize for even raising the specter of Halo. But I think there's a question of like, who's the villain? Who's the big bad? Is there just one in the absence of Silco who dies at the end of season one? Who's this great complex villain? You know, like he's evil. and yet also wants independence for this downtrodden underworld and also loves jinks in some weird twisted way, right?

And so, well, I guess we never know exactly what choice he would have made. We know what choice he said he would have made. But the question is, like, with him off the board, is it then jinx who breaks bad completely? Is it Mel's mom, the mega jacked Mel's mom who makes Abby from the last? of us look like she's lost all her gains. I miss Mega Jackdolls mom.

Is it Victor? Is it someone who like started out with the best of intentions and then got shimmer and got all sorts of dark energy possessing them because, you know, things got twisted along the way?

I don't know. Is there no single villain? Is the villain just the inability of everyone to get along at the end? I think the enemy is anything that's the enemy of what this society needs, and that's a radical meritocracy. And nothing else.

No, it's clearly like a story about, like, you know, the haves versus have-nots and this magical arcane resource, like clearly being the thing that could be the great equalizer in that regard. But getting back to our, at least our main villain from the season, Silicon, everything about his relationship with jinx grossed me out.

So, yes, you're not incorrect. I agree. But I'm rewatching, or on the rewatch in episode nine when he goes to the statue of Vander. Right. Right. They had been like ops for a minute. But we know that they started his brothers, became ops. And in that moment, I didn't see it like being weird.

I saw it as him, like, raising, like, so I feel like, Vi, was raised by Sander and uh jinks was raised by silko yeah but right there's also it i'm not saying it didn't look weird i'm not saying it's betrayed or at least they believe they've been betrayed right i mean i mean there is kind of a a borderline grooming aspects i wouldn't even say borderline i would say borderline it definitely like it definitely felt icky it definitely felt weird but i think

it was really just like when you see like he saw himself in powder and like literally like mirrored him and uh him and zander her and vi right and i think the show i think the show does that so like so we're like oh so goes a nasty man he's gross yeah he you know i mean but at the same time i while it does definitely looks weird i think the overall sub like what we're supposed to take away from that is like a one-to-one between him and vander and vi and powder it is weird. I'd be very clear. I was like, hey, I was like,

how many times I was I watched it? Hey, hey, time out. Time out real quick. Big time gross. Hey, hey, hey, what's happening? I think ultimately, I think, I don't know if it was meant to be gross. I think, I mean, it probably was meant to be gross.

By the same time, I think that was the line they were trying to walk there. Heimerdinger. Second best, no, I'm kidding. Sorry, Ben, what were you saying? He got cooked. He got cooked, Ben. There's also, yes, he did.

He got betrayed himself. Probably. I mean, the game is the game. You know what I'm saying? You get these, you sponsor a young fella. You know what I'm saying? Show him the ropes. You give them everything.

And then it blows up in your face. Brother. You give them the tools to kill you. You know what I mean? It's tough. Look, that's what it is. Is that what parenting is? Honestly.

Ben, is that what parenting is giving your child the tools to kill you? That's what it was. It hasn't happened for me. me yet, but who's to say? But look, who's to say there shouldn't be term limits after a few centuries on this council? Exactly. I mean, look, was the Jedi order best served by having Yoda on the council for life? He's in there like McConnell.

I got to get him out of there. He's still for too long. Maybe it's time for a change candidate. Maybe it's time for some hope and change. And, you know, he gets to go do his roving good works. But he got done dirty a little bit there. He got done crazy dirty. That's your boy.

Yes, he's son. I brought you up for nothing. The more meta aspect of this, when you have the League of Legends heroes, are they then safe? Is there plot armor protecting the League of Legends heroes because you can't kill these core characters in the game, which we might not even know are the heroes in the game given our light experience? That, again, that also helped me, but also because I had no sense. Maybe this character should die. Right. No, I couldn't agree more.

And again, I think the plot armor of at least, I would say that only knowing that this, like if I didn't know that this was only going to be two seasons, I might agree with you there. But I think for the fact that like it seems like a lot is on the table for season two, that I think if some bigger ramifications of this world, not saying that I'm not calling for characters to die for the sake of them to die,

but like to think that like nothing's off the table after a season finale like this, I like to think that they could at least be brave enough to do that because I certainly don't think that this show lacks for bravery narratively. Yeah. Yeah. And this isn't the end of the League of Legends expanded adaptation universe, too. Even if this is the end of arcane, there are plans for spin-offs for just alternative adaptations of other League of Legends lore.

From what we understand, there's a lot of it. So who's to say that these characters couldn't show up in some other incarnation? but before we get to the end of the season, you just, you got to give me Fai and Caitlin getting together. Oh, man, we can't. We don't have time to get. We, man, we can't get. Truly an all timer.

You can't let me get to the end of Twisters. Deprive me of the kiss. Thanks Steven Spielberg. Swisters. I didn't think we do this now. You can't take that kiss away from me. And then also just tantalize us throughout season one. The will they or won't they?

They definitely will. they definitely won't do. But when will they? I was sick to my stomach, sick to my stomach. Jomi punching air with that kids. Oh my gosh. Well, because they meet an episode or at the end of episode four

and then episode five, they go into the undercity. And then almost immediately, Vye's putting the moves on crazy, bro. They're in that little like brothel type thing. Yeah. And she's like, you look good, Cup Cake. I was like, oh, why, I wasn't familiar with your game.

I'm okay, you know what I mean? And then they feel like they played each other. It's a little bit of lack of trust. There's a cat and mouse going on there with it. But then Caitlin invites Vite to our home up in the upper city, man, you know, in Piltover, meets the family. That's serious right there. You know what I mean?

And then for all that, just to be like, oh, man, let's go watch my sister blow up the council. It's kind of crazy. Not a good date. Not the worst. Not a good date. The worst first day you could ever imagine. You know what I mean? And so I just hope in season two that they get to be happy and healthy together

because, God forbid, something happens to somebody in one of these season two. Me and Netflix, I'm going to go to France. I'm going to find you. It's going to be me and you. We've had plenty of piltover talk. It's time for some pillow talk. And it would be a tough piltover swallow. Oh, okay.

Okay. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I completely landed that one. This is like... Still working. This was like that French pole vaults or like you had it. But my massive junk prevented me from... Hey, yo! We knew what we were talking about.

Yo! No, it's great. I really do think that like that, that to me is the like emotional crisis of that. Like, Vye and Jinks is one thing, but I think Katelyn's dynamic with Vye is like, actually incredible. It's very, very well written and kind of something that I hadn't seen in again, I keep forgetting that this isn't a kid show

because of the occasional extremely adult themes here. But again, it's so well written. I used to think that this show was like plot heavy and drama light, but then again, the latter half of this season really

proved me wrong because again, you can't discredit the table setting because they're going to be setting up a lot. I'd like to think that with the implication of season two, we won't need any more further scaffolding and we can just keep going and pushing because I don't want to think that we can have another time jump or I don't want to think that we can have to like need to introduce anybody more to this equation or any more characters here.

That doesn't seem to be the goal of this second season. What do you guys think is going to be the biggest challenge for season two? after a raucous debut like this, or do you think that this is just, we have the utmost confidence there, this is in the bag? I assume that it's going to be an explosive start. One would guess based on how last season ended,

based on the trailers and the teasers, it looks like it's just going to really ramp up. It's just going to be nothing but bangers the rest of the way. I mean, there's a lot of loose ends to tie up here. And again, I wonder whether the end game is that we get back to where season one could have ended where they come to some sort of agreement.

Again, the miscommunication. Jinks doesn't know what's going on in that council chamber. Everyone's raising their hand. We've got the agreement. We're going to have independence and then. All right. All right. Well, quick pause here.

When I'm deciding the laws that would affect hundreds of thousands, if not possibly millions of people in my city, if I want a dramatic lighting effect when I raise my hand. Yeah, who's lighting those spotlights? Who's doing the tech? Is there someone in that room? Is there a lot of things? Is there a light underneath my desk to where I can suppress it like a bank vault? There's a guy up the top.

He's got the sound. He's got the lights, obviously. He's in a chunk. All black. Exactly. And my, and my sawblade gear necklace. Right. You know what I mean?

Seems like there's a simpler, like, maybe a button to press or, you know, something that they can be. Right. It's like when you're waving your arms, the lights in the office go out. Yeah. Yeah, you got paid like crazy to just like, you know, press the button to do all the sound and stuff. No, I think season two, to Ben's point, has a chance to, you know, get

us, like, just go off the rip immediately, right? As soon as we get back into it, we're right back into it. Some of the stuff from the teasers and trailers I saw that interest me was, there was a clip that released on geek tweak for Netflix,

and it's Vi, like, she's at a, like, a underground fighting ring, and she's, like, continuing like fighting and a drunk. Yeah. Yeah. And it doesn't imagine.

Yeah. And it doesn't matter. Who would have guessed? That's not fine. And I think the thing that like is interesting to me is she's swell as hell in air. Like I'm talking like like Ben Lindberg's swall. You know what I'm saying?

Which is the most swall anybody can get. Well, outside of prison jacked, which is like Uncle Iro levels of like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like. And Mel's mom. Yes, and Mel's mom. Can't forget. Oh, you can't.

Forget Mel's mom. You can't forget Melvin. But I was like, yo, when does she have, what's going on? When does she have time to get this Jack? Like, was she, like, in a gym? So I don't know where that fits in the story is my thing, right? But I'm, I want to see it. I just want to see one scene of her in the kitchen because she's got to get the macros right. I mean, you can't outwork a bad diet.

And she's certainly, like, putting the work in. You have to remember in episode five, when they go back down to the lanes, she's got that guy and he's giving her that, like, nasty grub. That case like gross, what is this? And she's like, that's real food. That's all protein, bro. That's all protein. Yeah, but like the sodium content in that is how to be out of control.

I'm sure, but she needs the electrolytes. When you run and you're doing all those flips and jumps and stuff. Why didn't she be a gymnast? Oh my God. Speaking of Olympics, if I was a gymnast, gold medal, you would have been out the land. Yeah, a lot of parkour happening here. You know what I mean? Like, y'all would have been her, jinks.

And that's another thing. Myel Clagger. While I'm here, I'm picking Knits Corner, I hate the fact that parkour can apparently be done by any main character that's wearing a hoodie. The fact that you have to be doing cool stuff while also wearing a hoodie when you literally can't see, that's the point of being in a hoodie. It's a very vertical environment. You got to go up, you got to go down. The bridges are closed.

You got to just swing from the rafters and jump off bridges. You learn to climb as a young little thing. And then by the time you grow up, you're like, this is regular. This is easy. I can get to Piltover, climb over stuff, blow up buildings, you know, with just a thought. It's thought all that hard. All right. Many awards before we go on to lower decks.

Best episode of the season, Ben Lindberg. Yeah, I'm going to go with three. I think three was just so crucial. That was the moment. I actually had a false start with the season where I watched the first couple and I had to come back later and rewatch them because I just was not hooked right out of the gate. And then I got to three. It's that standard streaming thing where it's like, just get to the third

episode. Not that the first two were bad, but if you're watching the first couple, you're just catching up now and you're like, what are they raving about? Just give us three and then you'll be sold. Jomi? I'm team three. I think that was the moment where crystallized. And again, it was great. I was having a good time. But that's when I was like, oh, this has a chance to be incredible. This has a chance to be amazing. And it was. And episode three is the genesis of that. It's a slight zag for me. And it's only because of what three did. And I'm going to say it's like the first half of episode four. Because it took me a solid second to be like, oh, this is what the show is doing.

And I think everything that comes after episode four is like episode one point one. And everything before that was episode one. It's an odd math equation that I've made up in my head. You just made that up. I made it up. You just made it up. None of that is real. All right.

Bose's most visually impressive moment. I have a couple of nominees, but I wanted to see if you guys can name me off the top of your head. I mean, there's a lot. Yeah, it's tough to narrow it down. I know, it's like, okay, how many Mona Lisa's do we want to talk about? I know. So many set pieces. Exactly.

I have, uh, Jinks's, uh, debut, uh, assault on the, uh, airship with smoke and everything like that. Um, season finale fight. And, uh, I was going to go. Yeah, the, the, the Vy, Sevica fight. Am I pronouncing that right? Yeah. Yeah.

Savika. Savika. Yeah. They each have their, you know, like augmented arms. And they're just going shoulder to shoulder, giant fist, visually, very arresting. Yeah, if I had to pick one, I think I'm going to zag a little bit. I think it's the fight with Jace and, uh, and Vi in episode eight.

Uh-huh. Like, I like to call that team up arm and hammer. I think it's really, I thought that was tight. Ben, you're relieved of the worst. wordplay today. Thank you. I like you. I thought that could happen. I thought the scene was tight. They were going to say and then at the beginning of episode nine they're like

they're about to fight. I'm like, no, I don't fight. Y'all are a team. I hope they honestly, hopefully, uh, Jace survives the shark bomb, uh, from episode nine. Right. And they can team up again because I thought that was, that was a great, that was a great scene. Um, I would have to go with, uh, Jinks's airship assault. For some reason, I love that because as she was like being revealed from the smoke, it would like, jutter from like different images from like illustrations and then like images of her as a kid and then back to

her and then she's holding the big guy it was so great to me that just worked so well loves me an airship just in anything just give me more yeah not a blimp my not formative moments with skies of arcadia his dark materials anytime an airship shows up I'm happy and then a siege on an airship get out of here yeah and it's not a blimp because it has you know metal inside yes it's an important distinction it's an absolutely different all right and then the last one, best lyric used in the Imagine Dragons opening theme song. I mean, oh, the misery. No.

It's not? It's that alliteration of the stories that are told and the lessons to behold. I'm not listening to that. Imagine Dragon is not making this way on my playlist. Here's the thing. It's probably one of the worst opening things. It's probably the worst thing that actually is a part of this show is that theme song, and I never skip it.

No, man. I still never skip it because they took the button away for Joe. It took the button away for me. And the crazy thing is, again, like, it looks cool. It's got, like, the statue stuff. Oh, yeah, just any, like Beethoven put it over that thing. It's cool. Wait, hold on.

I got a question. Maybe this is a little off topic. Are Magic Dragons the same people who did, I'm only human after all that. That's not that. That's not him. I was about to say, oh, I was about to say, never mind.

I might have changed my tune. Oh, because then you're like, oh, okay, maybe they got some hits. They got some hits. I know they got radioactive. That's the one. Do you like that one? Do you guys have a lesser character that you like that we haven't really talked about? Because it's a big cast, right?

Demandos. Madonna? Yeah, no. Jake's brother. I understand. I'm with you, my boy. I see the vision. I would have folded too, man.

I get it. I get it. I'm a fan. I'm a fan. I like her arc because you don't really know what kind of sides she's playing. You think she wants to, like, exclusively use Jace. But then you kind of find out, oh, she actually does care about him. Because when her mom comes, is like, let's use this thing for her.

Let's, like, find it. Like, let's just take this guy's stuff and make it the profitable war machine. It should have always been. She's actually like, no, let's not do that. That's nuts. And so you kind of do feel like, at first you think she's playing him. But really, they are like almost in sync, almost like, you know, literally together, right?

And so I was really a big fan of her character and how she interacted with the Jace toward the end there. I liked it a lot. I dug Vander in those opening episodes. Yeah. Vander, I just love a good, like, earnest, like, found family dad.

Like, shout out to the dads that are like, probably on the wrong sides of the law that were former badasses and then just like tried to do everything they can and to protect their kids. that really hits for me and I just like I like somebody standing up for the little guys

I really do I'm going as far away from him as I can and I'm going with my man singed he's got that creepy Kyburn going on

not even a maister all time goon he's growing some sort of zombie Gregor Kagan in his tank we're still trying to figure out what the mutation is happening here

evidently he's graduating from recurring character to series regular in season two. Looking forward. This guy. I wonder. Give me more singed. I wonder if he and Victor are going to interact some more because, like, I, like, again,

I thought Victor might have been an op for Jays, but it turns out that they were locked in. Yeah. But Victor, and this is just between me and Victor right now, bro. Yeah. They can be body horror buddies. Yeah. Well, I need, but I need Victor to lock in. Gave him the substance.

Because Victor was wild and, bro, Sky wanted him bad, bro. That's true. Sky wanted him bad. Not only did he fumble her, turn her to dust. That's... He's Danoster. It's either one of the two. Yeah, that's tough.

As rejections go, not only, you know, you're going up there, you're trying to shoot your shot. And not only is that not really reciprocated, but also you get vaporized in the process. That's tough. Second worst date only to Vine Caitlin's first date. I don't know. I kind of rather be like kidnapped than turn to dust. At least, hey, I've been let down in worse ways. Yeah, we've all been there.

I mean, there are times where you wish you could probably evaporate in that moment. And so maybe it was it was merciful maybe. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Nah, man, I really can't wait to see the second season of this show. Me too. I mean, we've spent like almost an hour talking about how fun and awesome and amazing it is. But like the writing is something that I think it's a little bit overlooked.

And there's amazing lines throughout the entire series. But the one that spoke out to me was between Jason Victor. and it's like in the pursuit of great we failed to do good I'm like that's a bar that's a bar with their journey discovering hex tech the hex cores the whole thing

they forgot what it what their initial thing they initially set out to do was and that's to help the people you know and I just think that if they continue this level of storytelling this level of animation this level of writing we're in for

one of the greatest shows in video game adaptation history yeah Arcane is pursuing greatness and is not failing to be great along the way. And I can't wait to take this journey with you, whether I'm talking to you about it or listening. Let's finish strong. Let's make up for lost podcasting time on the ringerber speed.

Amen. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more.

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Lower decks. Yeah, that's definitely that's the song. That's how the theme song goes. Yeah. Is that imagine dragons? Oh, the misery. All right. So we've definitely had a long time coming for

lower decks, a show that's been advocated not only just by the likes of Ben, Jomi, and Arjuna, but a bunch of people in the comments here. Taking place, like, premiering in 2020, whereas Arcane managed to only eke out

one season in this time. This show churned out five. And we are now on its fifth, and I'm sorry, Jomey. Don't say it. You just don't have to say it. You're doing that to be mean. You're just doing that to be mean. You never know. Exactly.

Well, it's taking place with some of our favorite now beloved characters operating on the lower decks of a great starship. We're in the fifth season. Guys, how are we feeling? Feels great. It feels fantastic. It honestly does, man. This show, I'm not, I want to be very clear. I was not a Star Trek person, like, before 2020.

I'd watch the movie as JJ Abrams joins. It was cool. right? I like Star Trek in the darkness, all right, and I didn't like Beyond. That's what it was. Tough.

I know. I know. It's clearly coming from someone who was not a big Star Trek head prior to that point, at least my experience. Right. You know,

that one didn't really land with me. That's on my board when I recite the names of my enemies at night, like Aria Stark. It's Rise of Skywalker. It's into darkness. Really?

Wow. Wait, wait, hold on, hold on. We'll get into lower decks. Quick pause. Quick pause. Here's the thing about into darkness. Way too long.

Way too long. Like once the ship come back from under the clouds, that's the end of the movie. Right? Like, we should cut it there. You know what I'm saying? But the thing about the Star Trek Beyond, brother, I want to see everybody together.

I want to see them interact. I want to see them figuring out how to do stuff on a starship. Brother man, I know that's how the show does it. Y'all, we go on the planets. They're doing stuff. That's kind of boring. I'm not going to lie to you.

That's fair. I was kind of like, you know, get to the goods. He wrote a motorcycle, though, at the end. Brother, with fake Igazela, brother, I'm not there for that, brother. Igazala, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not there for that, my boy. Lock it, you know what I mean? He's serious.

Lower Dex. Yeah. The reason, like I said, the reason I love Lower Dexter, they're on the starship. Everybody's getting together, Boimler, Tandy, Rutherford, a Mariner, to Lynn in season four. Like, that's the kind of stuff I live for. I love their interaction. I love the way they blow up each other.

In season one, it's basically like, Tendee and Rutherford, Boiller and Mariner, go, right? And, like, that's, like, the pairs. Yes. You know? And, like, by season two, like, let's start mixing it up. And that's when the show, like, jumps to a new gear. And you see everybody interact, Captain Freeman, um, Shacks.

Everybody, like, gets involved. And it's just a pleasure to be around. I, like, fell in love with Star Trek because I fell in love with the show. You know, we talk about, uh, we've mentioned Ella Pranel, uh, who is, who's jinx in League of Legends. She's also, shout out Star Trek Prodigy, bringing it all the way back. You know? Like, I now, I'm like, I'm locked all the way in on the Star Trek stuff because

Fallout X, Gingerv's Queen. Exactly. So, funny story. We were literally just talking about this about how he discovered Eliparnell from Prodigy. Never really cared that much about Fallout, but then retroactively found out that Elipanel was even in Arcane. Like, oh, she was jinx. Oh, that's great.

Because I'm like listening to Jinks talk. I'm like, that don't sound like Gwen from Star Trek. prodigy. I had my quick Google, my quick IMDB. I was like, oh, Stan, what's on? The homie, man, we locked in like that. Now, but this show has just been one of, like, and this is just like my personal, like, feelings coming up. Just one of the highlights of like, you know, being a, being a person in fandom, man, I didn't know what to expect from this show. And now, like, I love it. I love the characters. I love the world. You mentioned earlier about how this, how arcane has a little nods to different things in the League of Legend universe.

Star Trek lower decks does the same thing. They don't measure stuff from Voyager, from DS9, from the original series, all that stuff. That has nothing to do with me. None of that stuff, it goes over my head every single time. I have to go on Reddit and people are like pointing. But again, the show is probably a little bit more like, A? Did you see this? Yeah, the show.

Yeah. I enjoy the show all the, I enjoy it no matter what, because it's well-written. The characters are incredible. And the stories are just so much fun. It doesn't matter that they're throwing all these references at me that I'll never catch. I'm not locked in like that. But the show was so good that I'm like, yo, this, all this stuff's incredible. I got to go on Reddit and see what y'all meant by that.

But I'm still having a blast. Yeah, that fascinates me. I think that's such a testament to the quality of the show that if some of those things are lost on you initially or you know that there is a reference, but you don't get the reference because you didn't see that series. If that were the sole hook of the show, then probably you wouldn't like it, right? You'd feel like maybe this is not for you or this is kind of gatekeeping. Like I have a different history of Star Trek where I kind of grew up on it and I watched the original series.

I'm not that old. I didn't grow up with the original series, but I did decades after it aired. But then also growing up with all the great Star Trek shows in the 90s. And so I'm not going to say I have an encyclopedic knowledge in that I immediately get every single reference here. but the tropes of Star Trek episodes that Lower Decks is constantly playing with, those are very familiar to me. And that's part of the appeal,

but that's one way that this series could have gone wrong, right? Like my vendetta against JJ Abrams is like, we know that you love these things. We love these things too, but if you're going to reboot them or remake them, don't just like do the same thing over again. If the move in your playbook is,

let's bring back Copatin, let's bring back con. Okay, but show us something new, you know or the bare minimum interesting yes not just kind of the the DiCaprio pointing me right no I did no I thought it was cool no that was bad when the big ship take over the little ship in the lane I was like yo that's kind of crazy when I say JJ connected to you know presumed innocent Batman Cape crusader I guess if he's not as hands on with it if he's just executive producing then perhaps it doesn't bear those fingerprints there's still hope for those projects but that's the point that lower Dex is not like that, that you can appreciate this just as a show, as a standalone Star Trek series,

that on its own merits can compare favorably to any other Star Trek series. That's the strength of this series because when I first heard the pitch for this, okay, comedy in Star Trek, this is interesting. All right. And then it's almost a spoofy satire sort of tone. It could have been one note. It could have just been, okay, we get it. These are the lower decks people.

This is not the bridge crew. they have to do the thankless tasks. They have the second contact. Okay, that could have gotten old after a season or two if that was all there was to it. Or if it was just constant crossovers and callbacks and that was the main appeal, then again, that would have restricted the audience somewhat, right? It would have been sort of insular and kind of, you know, okay, do you get the joke? I get the joke.

I'm in on this too. But that's not what the show is. Those are aspects of the show. Those are ingredients of the appeal. Clearly, it's made by people who. who love Star Trek, but it's also in sort of an Andor way. I know we always reference Andor when we're praising something. It's hard not to, but that sort of aspect of like we have people in the writer's room who are

not lifelong Star Trek heads and they might not get those references and they might not insert those references. Maybe they're catching up now as they're writing for this series, but they're not sort of steeped in that in that way. They just want to tell interesting stories. And there's a heart to this show, right? It's not just punchline after punchline. you care about this crew and you care about the relationships.

And yeah, it's episodic. It's not so much serialized. It's a throwback in that sense. And so you're not seeing dramatic character growth. And yet over the course of five seasons, you know, we finally got some promotions here, lower level promotions. You know, some relationships have evolved. Have they, Ben? You know, they're selling me with Tandy and Rutherford, Ben.

Speaking of will they or won't they or when will they? When will they? They have the episode. Again, it's more of the, they better they. Parth for Rangues's hard place. I was like, this is it, this is the time. And they sold me. I do not want Rutherford to be more machine than man.

Come on. Come on. Come on. I think as far as my onboarding for the show is concerned, because I had to have a bit of a crash course more so than you guys. Because, again, I have been neglecting the show over the years. I was easy to write this off over the years. as thinking of this as a very reductive way in the, like, as part of the trend of the, like,

the lesser rick and mortification of certain IP or certain adult animated shows that have come out that have a certain type of look, that have a certain level of cleverness attached to it, while still gearing themselves toward a more adult audience. And I could not have been more wrong and happy to have been more wrong about Star Trek lower decks, only because this is more of a earnest workplace comedy.

Damn near akin to something like the office than anything else. Because, again, like, the tapestry of Star Trek is absolutely vast and full of, like, wonderful, like, incredible science fiction and moral conundrums that make some of the best science fiction storytelling that we have in a modern era. and bringing that into a very heartfelt and earnest place that comes from a workplace comedy about the lower level people that just go about their day to day as all of these miraculous things are happening is actually great and it's funny and it's it's got a razor sharp wit it's highly bingeable and like this could be something as easy to find as say a parks and wreck or as something that can be fun like you find all these characters you're immediately endeared to almost all of them and there's a thread of underlying great plots that like bring me from season to season i couldn't have been more impressed by it it's a fantastic show and you keep saying final i don't it's never

gonna be final in my heart okay and i know y'all i know netflix you're listening okay you did it with prodigy do it with lower decks save my guys lower decks lower deck no just me right So, did you get tears? So Jomey and Ben, did you get tears in your eyes when we had our live action cameo from... Oh, my God. Yeah. Jomey's beside himself. This was in Star Trek.

Oh, my goodness. What is it? Strange New World. Strange New Worlds. Excuse me, yes. Here's the thing. I don't watch Strangler Worlds. Right.

That's not where I'm at. Jomey. Shout out. Look. No, no, no. Wait, hold on, Ben. Hold on. Hold on.

Tell me. I was like, maybe I should. lock in. If anything for this, because we have the crossover. Because we have the crossover. So I was like, let me tap in. Let me see what Pike and number one are up to. Right.

And it's cool. I had a good time. You know what I mean? But that episode, the Star Trek Lord Dex crossover, man. That's my comfort episode. I go back to that all the time, man. You see, just to see, uh, Boimler do like, say, Riker maneuver

when he's getting on the ball of horse. You know what I mean? And like, see, to see Beckett come to life, man, that episode is so much fun. Like, Bormler's doing the Bormler walk. He's got to scream. Oh, my gosh. It's fantastic. It's awesome.

Yeah. And that's the thing, even if this is the end of lower decks. And we're not accepting that at this point. But even if it is, it's had an impact through the crossover with Strangling Worlds, which is a perfect television program. And I'd probably be even more. effusive about lower decks, if not for the existence of trade worlds, which is just equally beloved by me and Joe, for that matter. I like how you start with by me.

By many. But also that this series has established that, yeah, you can do this. You can do this comedic tone. You know, people have been spoofing Star Trek forever, right? And maybe it's Shatner going on SNL. I mean, but to do it in universe, right, in this loving way, but also this kind of self-deprecating poking fun at itself sort of way, and not necessarily in like a kiddie way, like a Lego Star Wars sort of diversion, but like a legitimately Star Trek show, it's not just

the crossover, but it's also that there's a live action comedy series in development, which seems like a spiritual successor, at least to Lower Dex, in the sense that Tony Newsom, who plays Mariner on Lower Decks, is co-writing this series with Justin Simeon, whose Lando TV show died so that this Star Trek live. We're fine with it. Peter, you don't like, you hate it. Would you rather have the spiritual successor to Lower Decks or Orlando show?

That's if it's actually, like, if Tony Newsom, we opened Deadlight tomorrow, she's like, Tony Newsom will be returning as Beckett, Mariner, in the Star Trek live action comedy series. It was all worth it. It was all worth it. Yeah, yeah. We're going to get Orlando one way or another,

it seems like. Not that you can count on any Star Wars project, but I think. I think Mariner, like Newsom is so good. Of course, everyone's number one Nepo baby Jack Quaid is so great as Boeims. And, you know, if I had any nitpick about the series, which I don't. But if I had to try to invent one, it might be just that the core four is all time. But I feel like the rest of the crew has not been established and fleshed out in the way that, you know, something like next generation where it's just a, total ensemble show. Yeah. Even Strange New Worlds. Like the focus is so consistently on the four that the others kind of pop up, you know,

they're supporting players. They're the comic relief to the comic relief, right? And, you know, like the doctor character on lower decks is just like never really, never really worked for me. Like, it's just need more there. But, you know, like, that's a hallmark of great Star Trek series is that like, you know, you feel like it's a living, breathing crew. and you feel the community aspect and the ties among all of these crew members who are very much a found family on their continuing voyage, right?

I don't get that so much from Lower Decks because, you know, they're kind of insular, right? Like they associate with each other. They don't cross over so much, which is kind of the conceit of the series. And look, like maybe it makes sense to end it at some point. We would watch this forever, I imagine. But at some point, like, I would feel bad for Boimler if he just never gets these promotions that he's been. England for several seasons at this point. It stops getting a bit and then it's just like the coyote chasing the roadrun at that point.

Ben, how much more migley mode do you want in this show? Infinite miggly mode. Oh my God. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm cool. Like, I mean, I get like, you know, Tana and Shacks. I think their relationship specifically, like, it's kind of like something that's interesting.

I mean, we had it kind of with Adderaubo Bue in season three when they're talking about, you know, how he's stuck behind the desk. you know, you get to that admirable level you can't really do much to advance your career, whatever. Carol, you're still in the field, all that. Pushing too many pencils and stuff like that, yeah. And then whatever Jack Ransom is doing besides like getting in shape, you know what I mean, and getting, you know, how many unmarked churros in a hot bag, you know what I mean?

Like, I think, I mean, I see the vision, but ultimately like, I'm really there for the core four until in, you know what I mean? Or the War Five. They're trying to coin now. Yes. Whatever those guys are doing, I'll be there. It's just so much fun and so incredible. It's really some of my favorite television.

I've said that a lot, but I was not expecting to fall in love with these people in the show like I did. And so I'm just super... Season 6 is coming, guys. I'm putting it in the air right now. Six seasons in a movie. Let's do it.

Six seasons in a movie! Oh, good God, you just reminded me about the community movie. It's coming. That's coming, by the way. That is happening. That is going to happen. It's the only way we'll actually get a Star Trek movie

is to make it the lower decks casts. That's the way we have to have this happen. Maybe that's the one movie we can all agree on. Was that what Quinn Tarantino was going to make until he... I mean, he could make the lower-dex movie. Yeah. He could make the Lower Decks movie. I'd watch it.

That'll be his final feature that we've all been waiting for for years. You know what? Finally, Academy Award worthy. I'm not looking forward to seeing Tendie's feet or to hearing Rutherford say the N-word, but I'll be there. That's true. You know? It is a QT joint.

A bit out of character for him, but who knows, he has hidden depths. But yeah, like, you know, know, you can tell there's a difference in our tone talking about this versus arcane, obviously, like these are two very different types of animated series, and we dearly love them both. There's, you know, a little less weightiness to this, obviously. This is, you know, your standard sitcom length. The, you know, episodes mostly don't carry over. We're looking for laughs here.

But it's just an incredible time. I relish all the moments that we've spent with this crew. What do you guys think of the first two episodes of the season five? like them right back to form right i i would say that like while nothing like it immediately stood out i'm glad that it isn't like immediately carrying itself like with the weight of a final season of a beloved show because a lot of things are just like oh we got to set things up in the in the margins for you know big payoffs because this is going to be the last time that we do this like right sometimes sitcoms can do that and you see it coming from a mile away and i think this is just like

all right we're on a standard adventure and i would like to hope that there's a, there's a really, there's a smaller niche comedy series that I had loved when I was growing up in my, growing up in my 20s, but when I saw it in my 20s, called that Mitchell and Webb look. And it was just like this irreverent

British sketch show. And every single series that ended, every single like time that it would just like keep wrapping up, it was like completely standard box comedy. But then the final sketch of that season, or of its final episode, was funny, but

then it ends on like moments that are incredibly poignant, like more so that you never thought that you could ever see from a show like this. Yeah. And I feel like this, like if it really is going to hit a home run, lower decks, I think that it has the scaffolding and I think it has the talent behind it to give us something genuinely profound come the end of this. And I don't know how, I don't know when, I don't know why, but like something about this makes me feel like in the 11th hour,

it's going to be like knock your socks off poignant and emotional. I'm not looking for it to that. I don't want to cry, you know, thinking about the Cerritos gang and in that family.

No, I think the first two episodes were again, like you said, Robert Turner Forum, just keeping the great energy going. I loved the callbacks to like some of the early episodes,

like the sarcastic Vulcan salute that Mariner does. And she literally says, don't give me that sarcastic vulcan salute crap that her mom said in one of the first episodes. And she's like, wow, that's what I sound like. You know, the callback to buffer time I thought was really fun. And we always knew that Tandy was going to come back to the ship. But I still felt like that was, you know, really, really well done. And so, yeah, man, eight more episodes to go.

I'm just, I'm sad that this might be the last eight episodes. Again, I'm in denial that it's not. But I really want to see more of these people. I got to enjoy these next two months, man. Yeah. We'll cherish them. We'll savor them. Love that.

Shout out to Mitchell and Webb. Shout out Peep Show while we're at it. And do you think that this season ends? Does it culminate in a promotion in them being promoted out of the lower decks? Is that how they justify the series ending? Do we get some sort of Yavin episode four medal ceremony? Just like everyone gets their promotion and then the series ends? Because, you know, that's been a running theme throughout the series.

Like, is that what Mariner wants? Often she's actively sabotaging herself. We're seeing this in the start of the fifth season, that same running theme, right? So it's not clear that that's the goal for her, at least. And so I wonder whether that's the payoff that they mature, that they decide they don't want to be on the lower decks anymore, or do they just embrace that destiny? And that's what they'll be forever. Well, they're already lieutenant junior grades, right? Yeah.

So we'll see what it looks like. Pretty thankless tasks. Right. Yeah. An incredible distinction. You know? I mean, what if, like, they start separating them putting on different ships? Oh, I can't even think of this.

You can't deal with that, though. You can't have that for the final season. You can't have half of this season with all of our characters apart. I just, I just told my knees. I can't, I can't do it. They split them up. Nah, it's not going down. Speaking of a peep show, by the way.

You know one of the creators of peep show, their name? Jesse Armstrong. Yeah, that's right. You might know him. Succession zone. The writer and creator of succession. You know, so. Guys, talent is everywhere, you know?

It is. Wow. What a guy, what a show, guys. Lower day. If you're sad, if you need to console yourself after the end of these two shows that we've talked about today, please get into Strange New Worlds. Yes. And you and Joe and I can talk about that. I admire.

I respect this era of Star Trek, this Alex Kurtzman-led voyage that we've all been on. It's been hit or miss. At times, not everything has landed. I fell off of Discovery. the last couple seasons started strong. But just a wide range of tones and settings and, you know, mediums. And they're taking big swings. Yeah.

Star Trek can experiment in a way like I think that's because of the nature of the franchise. It started on TV. You know, the production values were not super great initially. The canon and the lore has always been a little looser than, say, Star Trek, or Star Wars, some other franchises. And so, you know, you can be a little less precious about that stuff. And, yeah, like, Strange New Worlds is a prequel. And, yeah, these shows have their settings.

But ultimately, that doesn't matter that much. And it feels more so than with, say, Star Wars, it feels to me like Star Trek could kind of be anything at this point. Star Trek has updated its look in the JJ movies, you know. If I want to give them credit for anything, it's like, hey, even if your sci-fi franchise started in the 70s, it doesn't have to look like the 70s forever. Even though we love that look, we could update these things in a way that we don't really get with Star Wars or with Alien or Blade Runner or whatever else. They have those classic kind of looks. And Star Trek's like, hey, we can jump a thousand years into the future. It's still Star Trek.

So I'm not super psyched for like Section 31, but I'll watch it. I'm looking forward to Starfleet Academy. I'm looking forward to whatever Tony Newsom cooks up. It just, it feels like, you know, there's no barrier really with what Star Trek can be. Y'all really didn't like those J.J. movies, did you? I like the first one. I mean, they had their moments. The first one, the first one, cool.

Yes, I'm cool with the first one. All right, right, all right, all right. We're cool with the first one. I'm about to say, because the first one, I'm not going to say it moved mountains. That's saying a lot. No, but it was genuinely exciting. But yeah, genuinely excited.

You know, and with Force Awakens, too. Was it the same as previous Star Wars movies? Yes, but, you know, one time you can get away with that, and we all had fun at the movies. This is the Ring of Verse take purge right here. We're going to be revamping everything. We got to say on Star Wars. Movies I don't watch, I've never watched twice.

Rise of Skywalker, Star Trek Beyond. I can't do it. Beyond was fine. I'm probably sure. Beyond was fine. I probably fall asleep in Beyond. Rise of Skywalker actively made me angry. Yeah, sure.

That pissed me off. Yeah. Well, we're going from angry to going to sad because now it's the end of our show. But it's the beginning of Mintvember. That's right. Don't you love it when we say it in unison like that? It really feels great. We didn't even practice that.

I know, we didn't. No, it's just innate. Thank you so much for listening to us. Thank you so much to the wonderful Ben Lindbergh for joining us. The deepest pleasure. Okay. Well, that's going to be a wrap for us. Don't forget next week the Penguin is going to be upon us with the Midnight Boys,

giving you covered with the latest reactions to that as well as House of ours Deepdive. And ButtonMash is going to be returning with the latest and greatest in the world of video games. And don't forget, Mint member is going to be upon us. We're going to be coming to you from Mint Edition. Season two. Season two of Arcane. We're going to be talking season two.

Every Saturday this month, talking about parts. One, two, and three. And everything that we've got to do. So we are produced, not by Jonathan Germman, who's away. Who's away? He ran away. Left us. Exactly.

So you're going to have to find another great name for Isaiah. Well, there's only a curb bit. What does Blakely fit into? Victor Wimblede Blakely doesn't make sense Wemben Blakely no What have you done for me Blakely?

That's not bad That's okay There you go I say it's pretty tall Okay Where's your ghost sport I say You're not supposed

You're not supposed to It's in the league Right He's the extra foot and a half Come on He's probably still growing It's in the mail I think It's in the mail

All right Well Prime Ship and that Thank you so much for listening We appreciate you as always We'll see you next time And until then Look out for yourself

We'll see you guys Again, thank you to Ben for coming through Isaiah for holding it down for our guy Kerm. And if you got to leave you with something, got to leave you with the song. Oh, the misery. Oh, goodness. Good Lord. Everybody wants to be my enemy. Cut his mic.

Spare the sympathy. Everybody wants to be my enemy. You know, I didn't know J.D. was on this song. Wait, no. Oh, yeah, he is. He is. I didn't know that. He didn't listen to it.

I didn't listen to it before. He did the rap part. Nah, I didn't hear, I see, I never got to the rap part. That's fair. I never got to here. We can't turn that shit at all. Thanks. Feels like every product claims real protein these days.

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