The Ringer-Verse - Best Movies and TV of 2025: Midnight Mulligans | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

The Boys are back for their end-of-the-year review of all things nerd-verse and their Midnight Mulligans rankings! (10:13) 'Star Wars: Skeleton Crew' (13:56) 'Wicked' Part 1 (18:04) 'Captain America: Brave New World' (34:17) 'Daredevil: Born Again' (34:58) 'Sinners' (38:34) 'Thunderbolts*' (40:22) 'Andor' Season 2 (40:53) 'The Last of Us' Season 2 (55:43) 'Mission: Impossible—The Final Reckoning' (58:03) 'Ballerina' (59:58) 'Ironheart' (1:03:19) 'Jurassic World Rebirth' (1:05:37) 'F1' (1:08:15) 'Superman' (1:13:21) 'The Fantastic Four: First Steps' (1:17:37) 'Alien: Earth' (1:18:59) 'Demon Slayer: Infinity Castle' (1:25:36) 'One Battle After Another' (1:41:36) 'Peacemaker' Season 2 (1:41:43) 'Gen V' Season 2 (1:44:26) 'Predator: Badlands' (1:44:55) 'The Running Man' (1:45:04) 'Wicked: For Good' Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Chris Thomas, Jade Whaley, Aleya Zenieris, and Sarah Reddy Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom We gotta drink Coquito No no intros today No intros today No intro today Because it's it's Mulligan's time guys It's the end of the year

It's the last time Y'all know who that is Y'all know who that is Y'all know who that is Let's do one thing for him On three two one Steve Yes

It's the end of the year Very special occasion My lovely girlfriend Lauren Made us a bottle of Coquito. She made the Coquito. She made it. A traditional Puerto Rican holidays drink.

A little bit of coconut, milk, a little bit of mixing in there. A little bit of spirits in here as well. So let me ask you this. Is it just Puerto Rican? Because I know my Cubans. It's a traditional. It's traditionally Puerto Rican, yes. But the Cubans.

I can't speak for that. I can't speak to that. Because she wants the Puerto Rican dominance. I can't speak to that. Hold on for a second. I cannot speak to the Latin diaspora. You can't. You don't.

So, but. But it's not, is it Puerto Rican or is it Cuban? It's Puerto Rican. What's Lauren up to? We can call her and ask. I mean, she's at work, but you can ask her all at work. Yeah. Who are you calling?

I'm calling. I've got to get, because I don't want to, what I can't do. It's misrepresenting. I'm not representing. I'm not saying you're wrong. You're not going to have no Wakanda and Atlantic shit right now. We're trying to get to the body of this. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I need to know who came up with Kokea.

Your call has been forwarded to play. She's working right now. This is my, yes. Whoa, what is, oh, my God. It's the Puerto Rico. Yeah. You could like this on fire. We're toasting to Lauren and we're toasting into Coquito.

And to a wonderful 25. And to a wonderful 25 and an amazing 26. Our last episode. In this studio, man. We're not going to be in this studio no more, man. We're moving on the bigger and bad things, man. Come on. Salute everybody.

Cheers. Salute all people in the back. That make this possible. Alea, Devin, C.T. J. Jade. Everybody that tells us out. Joe, Marjona, Arjuna, Ben, all of our Ringervverse.

Yeah, that's right. Shout out to you guys, the Mint Boy. Shout out to Min Edition, man. Shout out to, I'm serious, man. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Love you guys. All right, let's do this. Ooh, that's wrong.

Oh, my God. Lauren has a drinking problem. No, it's not. No, she does not. That's good. That's good. I never taste no coquito like this before. Lauren, this is good coquito. You know what we got to do?

We got to have a holiday party. We're going to put Lauren behind the bar. Because Lauren is already... She's taken care of you when you know what this is going. It's already one of the most delightful people in the world. She's wonderful joy to be around. You know what I mean? We're going to put Lauren behind the bar because this coquito is killing.

Kicking. Wow. Yeah. This is good. Hell good. Yeah. Fuck it. Guess what? You know what I decided I'm going to be in 2016?

guys. What? I got a lot of stuff I got to get accomplished. You know, we got a lot of stuff. We got some stuff. We got some stuff. We got some stuff. I think 26 is the year for my alcoholism.

I think I'm going to drink a lot more. You're going to work on it. I don't co-sign this? Let me tell you guys what happened a couple of days ago. Because Jomey brought some, some brisk iced teas? Some Briss iced teas. The hard iced teas. The hard iced teas.

Wait, Briss got hard iced teas? Yeah. Everybody trying to get you. And so Jomey brought him over and, you know, I was at the house and I was writing and I was feeling a little blocked. And then I popped open one of those brisps. That's brisk, baby. A little brisk. And I started writing like, motherfuckerucking Negro Hemingway.

I got like 10, 15 pages deep. We talk about screenplay pages. Right. So, you know, I'm doing my thing. So maybe the key to me, even more output, is getting on that lick. So I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't do that, right? But I would advise if you go on, like, do the alcoholism, you got to do the fake alcoholism.

Like, which is what? Which is like, you don't really, like, I don't drink by myself, right? Like, I keep it, like, pretty, pretty PG when I'm just at the crib. Well, somebody invite me out. I'm like, I've seen you. When Jomey's invited out. You might, you know what I mean? You might as well.

Out of the Blue Lagoon's, come on. Come on. You know what I mean? Take him three. Triple blasting the Blue Lagoon. You know what I'm saying? But Jomi like a tank, though. Yeah.

You know who Jomi was? by the way, we're not doing nothing. We're not doing no programming. We're not doing nothing. This is Mulligan. This is the end of the year. I'm with my boys. You guys have no idea how thankful I am for you.

For real. You guys really don't have how thankful I am for this show. No matter what I'm doing, where everyone goes, the Midnight Boys will always be something that I cherish. I love you guys. This is my crew.

So we're not doing none of that other shit. I will say this. I know who Jomi was. at the frat house. Let's get big Jomi out here, man. Yes. Let's get big Jomey. Jomey.

You can't stand like crazy. Jolmi is the black dude from the Druski skit. You see the other black guy. He's like, nah, man. He got to go. That's crazy. You guys, seriously, we're going to do a midnight mulligan. Before we do, I just have one question.

Is Drusky a fucking genius? And let me tell you what I mean. Like, not even. is not acting. It's some Andy Kaufman-esque understanding of human behavior that leads to the ability to render those characters like that. When he was saying stuff, when he was in the white boy

at frat house and that's kid, and he's saying stuff like, dude, you know, it's not me. I try to tell these guys, like, this guy's going to the fucking league. We know that black guy. You've been to the black guy. They come over, you're like, hey, he's telling the people outside, no, those dudes are going to the fucking league, man. you need to let him this party.

Like, you know that guy at these. Right, yeah. But it's not only that, but it's in every skit where it's like, I know that guy. No matter, like the one, the NASCAR one where he was like put himself a white face. And you're like, I've seen that white man. I've been, I've been there. The Amazon warehouse. I'm going to say about nothing but the time.

Like, I see that. The Little League coach where he sees the kids horse playing. And he goes, the fuck was all that touching. That is how the baseball coach acts. Now, that's the motorcycle guy. who rides up to you? I know everybody's going to be like, but I watch these sketches and they're funny,

but also real. It's blowing your mind in a little bit. Yeah, it's like, Ben to dawn is good, too. Ben to dawn is crazy. Who was the hat fishing one? That was the most recent one, I think he did. They niggas got mad about that. I felt away.

That was the first time I've ever felt attacked by Drew's. I didn't see that, because I didn't see that sketch at first. I saw the guy. He was like, no hats in the club. No hats in the club. It was bad. It was like, my years, man. I've been a big Drewski fan,

but this one went too far. And I was like, yeah, he cooked you. All right, Midnight Mulligans, Chuck. All right, all right. All right, so y'all know what it is? Midnight Mulligans. This is our third annual event. Now, I forget how we came up with this idea, but when I didn't know how we came up with it

because, what was it, the Matrix Resurrections came out. Yeah, and Van gave it to change his score. And then he went and did some research, did some home. I'm going to say, actually, guys, this movie's great. If you know the 12 cycles of Zion, blah, blah, blah, this and this and this. So we had to Mulligan his score from, what, a 2 to an 8 or whatever? I think you keep coming up every year. It's a 9.

It's a 9. All right. So you guys know what the midnight meter is, 1 and 12, 1 being the worst, 11 and 12 for absolute game changers. Ooh, a little bit more Kequito for Van. Yeah, it's going. Now, let's start in early. I'm sick of this. For reference, it's 1030 in the morning.

I don't fucking care. I don't order us all hamburgers after this. Y'all, y'all miss the boomer rant that I had before. This episode about to be totally unhinged. Let's walk in. See, what are you doing? What you're skipping? That's the last episode of the year.

You're skipping on the coquito, bro. I'm not skipping on the coquito. It's that for everybody else. She didn't, but y'all not asking for more. I need a little more. If they don't ask for more. Can I get through the explainers? God damn.

Anyway, you all already know what the midnight meter is. What we do during Mulligan's is we give a chance for everybody to go back through all their scores throughout the year and change them. Movies and TV. The only thing I think we're not going to do this year is Avatar. Yeah. All right. Correct.

So. Hold on real quick. Hold on. Hold on. Jason. Talk to me. Is Coquito Cuban or Puerto Rican? I want to say it's Puerto Rican, I think.

Damn. Yeah, I was right. But see, this is my homie, Jason. Right. And Jason, you're on the podcast. Don't say no crazy shit. Like, this is my homie, Jason. and Jason hooks me up with the Coquito and Jason is Cuban.

Okay. So I wanted to make sure that you weren't misrepresenting what the... We're on that Coquito right now on the Midnight Boys. Oh, yeah? So I wanted to make... I got to send you guys one of my moms, man, so you can have it on the show. I had it before. Remember you sent me one back in the day?

That's what I'm saying. That was a Coquito plug. I had it before, but it's Puerto Rican. Okay, so let me ask you the last question then. Why y'all trying to be Puerto Rican, bro? I thought y'all had a proud heritage and culture. I don't know, man. My mom knows no ethnicity in the kitchen.

Happy holidays, to you, brother. We got to talk, man. Happy holidays, man. Hit me up. Let's go Keynes. All right. He's a big Miami guy.

All right. All right. Now that we got our Kakito, we're drinking, liquors flowing. First up, TV show, Skeleton Crew. Van, your... Actually, Van Jomey and Steve scores were all seven. I was a four.

We'll start with you, Van. Are you changing? And also, in the back, please keep track of all of our new scores. Skeleton crew is going to stay a seven. So when I went back and watched, I went back and watched a couple of episodes of Skeleton Crew for Mulligan's. Skeleton Crew, you guys want some fried chicken? I love the chicken.

Can we get through the, yeah, man. I love some chicken. What's wrong with chicken? Wait, at 1040? Fuck it. Yeah. I thought it was hamburgers. This is crazy.

This is how you used to be fat and I'm still fat. Frine chicken would be great. Nigga, I'm fat now, bro. No, you're not fat now. You're not fat now. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. But let me tell you something right now, Skeleton Crew.

I went back and watched a couple of episodes. Do you know what the real issue with Skeleton Crew is? What is it? It was decent and it could have been fucking phenomenal. The DNA was there for Skeleton Crew to really be a, similar moment in Disney kid shit, Star Wars kid shit, and they couldn't get it together. There were moments.

There were definitely moments. There were definitely moments. There were definitely moments. But skeleton crew to me was a great idea. It was executed pretty well. But it kind of shows the creative malaise that they might be in over there at Lucasfilm a little bit. Yeah, that's fair.

I'm a stick at a seven, too. I think that I enjoyed the show, watching it the first time. And, you know, we're not getting a second season. I'm gonna keep it where it is, man. We're chilling. Steve? Yeah, yeah.

I'll keep it to seven as well. This is a fair, this is a fair score for this. All right, we, I'm gonna be fair. We're gonna go down to a three. Yeah. Fair, Jesus. Did you go back and watch it again? Hell no.

Then what the, how could you go down? Because what people don't. Man, another round of Kokito. This is what people, it's never again. Never again. Never again. Because you're skipping. This is what, this is the white part of you.

Like you're being, Scarcity mindset. You have a little, you have a little power. And like now what you, I'm not accusing. He's giving Kikito to who he wants. The next Kokeeto episode we have,

Lauren's going to be on the pocket. Right. Because I bet if she was on here, there'd be like five Kokitos down there. She'd be topping us off with Kokito all the time and stuff like that. That'd be great. In the new studio, I feel like we should have a bar. Just a Kokito bar.

Yeah. Kokito should now be the, the drink of the midnight boys. Coquito and wake and late break. Yeah, exactly. Waking late burritos, yeah. You didn't even watch it again. How are you going to go down?

Chuck. It's not fair to the show. How am I going to watch? There are so much we have to get through. A couple episodes. One scene, something. But I'm saying if you didn't rewatch it, why are you going down? Explain it?

Because I think what you were going to realize throughout this entire exercise today is that usually, you know, I don't want to yuck anybody's yumb during the year, so I might give, like, some extra points just to, you know. And now, this is my real thoughts after the whole year. And a lot of this going down is like, I forgot that we covered skeleton crew.

If I forgot that something existed, it has to go down. Like, if it made no imprint on my consciousness. Imprint. Like, you know what I was? Like, there was stuff this year where I'm like, oh, I remember where I was. If you asked me to tell you the story of skeleton crew,

I'd be like, Jude Law was there. There was some pirate shenanigan. Neil, McFrost. Neil. Yeah, the blue kid. But why not just stay at a ford it? It's already, you already shit on it. I just dropped it to a three.

Fine. I'm a little like, what's the next one? All right, Wicked Part 1. Van and Jomey had 11s. I had an 8. Steve had a 9. I will say I'm going to stick at an 8. I really enjoyed the first weekend.

I'm going up to a 10. Ooh. Because I rewatched Wicked 1 in anticipation for, for good. And I actually loved it a lot more than I, than I initially liked it. It's still great. I might have to bring it down to a 10.

Oh. I think, I mean, I don't think that it's wicked for good as sarring it. We'll talk about that one later. But more I think about it, man, define, I mean, divine gravity was special. Wait, are you bringing it down to a 10 because of Wicked for good? That's what I, I don't think so. But the more I think about it, the more I just go like the music was, you know what, maybe. I actually think I am.

Really? It's a bad taste in our mouth. For good, I really detracted from the first one. It doesn't for me. Man, because I think about like what the music was, what it went crazy and wicked. And I look at Wicked for good. And I'm like, yo, I can't believe that I enjoyed any of this experience for real. Right.

Like, it's really tough. You know, I'm going to stay at 11. Because I think in the moment. No, no, no. Go to 10. Come on. You want to go to 10? Go to 10.

You know, I'm off the go to Quito, man. I'm going to go to 10. You know, I'm off the Kokito. Yeah, don't pot scared, y'all. These are our real scores. So let me tell you, like, with me with Wicked, I think Wicked, the original Wicked is like the definition of an 11. Like, this big, huge, beautiful, gigantic moving phenomenon.

The movie was a phenomenon in every single way in terms of the conversation around it was a phenomenon. It wrapped up the culture, crazy box office, super, good, but not perfect. Not perfect as far as a perfect version of itself that is this singular cultural event that you can't get around, but almost every other metric, it's just going

crazy. The movie itself went crazy. The box office was crazy. The conversation around the promotion and the movie itself, the making of the film, all of that stuff. A-plus filmmaking experience. If you're

in a studio somewhere, that's kind of what you want a movie to be. Something that people have to talk about and that they really enjoy and that they all go out to go see. It's the definition of 11. I will say this, though, I look at the movie as even more sacred now that Working for Good came out. Because this movie...

It could have been a disaster. No, this movie... Trick Joe, man. Yeah, this movie is a sacrifice for Wicking for Good. Yeah. This movie had all the stuff in it, had all the stuff. this movie like put the team on his back. This movie put the team on his back, man.

And like, took Wicked for Good drug us with nostalgia and feeling for the first movie legitimately through the first half of Wicked for Good until we were like, wait a minute, what? It's sad because like I feel I can see myself like doing like if I ever do a rewatch, I'm probably just going to throw on the first one and then stop. But do you think they're ever going to try to do like kill Bill Blueprint? bloody affair thing where they like, yeah, come out to the theaters. And there's a Fortnite sequence in between. For all the wicked movies and people like, nah, we want the first wicked. We're not trying to say it. I feel like die hard fans would.

Like if they like, yeah, like if they did like an AMC one night only, we show them both movies back to back, I think the die hard fans are lock in. All the die hard, wicked fans, I know were pissed at this movie. Really? No, no, no. It's split for me. Like I knew a lot of diehard wicked fans that were like, this was great. I knew the problems of the second act going in.

The news songs were mid, but I had a great time. Everybody who I know... I still have fun. People enjoyed it. People like, man, I cried at the end, but that's because they're attachment to the musical, to the character. They weren't like, the movie was good. It was like, I still had that emotional reaction.

Sure. But the movie was... But sometimes that's all you need. It's not going to detract from it, and I can't be mad at it. I'm going to keep it my new 10. I like it. I'm happy. So, next up, Captain America, Brave New World.

They and Jomey were out of five. Steve was out of four. I was at it two. and I'm not going to be controversial. I'm not going to be an asshole. I think it's only fair. I'm just going to dock it one more point. So my new score is a one.

So this is your second lowest score of the year. I'm going up. Come on, Van. Play stop the cat. Take the exercise. Come on, man. I'm going up. I rewatch this movie at the crib.

First of all, that's a lie. I did. Nobody rewatched the movie at the crib. Why are you doing it? This particular movie. I'm watching at the crib. Give it another shot. And you enjoyed it more.

Yeah. I think that I enjoyed the movie more, like in the confines of my own home than I did when I expected a lot more from it in the movie. Yes. Okay. I thought it was fine. I thought it was fine. I'm going up one. I'm going up one to six.

To six? Yeah, I thought it was fine. All right. It's a mess. Don't get me wrong. It's a fine mess. All right. So here's a problem because the movie is bad.

But it gets a lot of unnecessary. There's stuff like the CGI on the Hulk is great. I think the fight scene all but the with the Jets on Tiamut is legitimately like excellent. Like we we talk about, I mean, they're going to do House of Our, they've already done House of Our best fights. And I think like, probably not worth an actual award, but worth the nomination because it was sick, right, watching down the big screen. As man, I give it a five. That's four. That's a four.

Okay, okay. The movie, the movie, the movie don't, don't, don't, don't move. Did you guys rewatch the movie? No, I'm not rewatching that movie, brother. How are you guys Mulligan stuff that you guys didn't go back and look at it? I went back and I rewatched the scene with the Jets, like the scene. I'm like, this is cool, but I think about the rest of the movie and how all of that fell way short of this particular scene.

So I'm like, this is the only scene a movie like I enjoy where I'm like, this should have been the movie. I agree with you. I sample, like for all of Mulligans, I at least sampled all of the things that were coming back to, either a clip or a full-blown rewatch. it kind of really was the only thing. I'm not mad at any one person in this movie because all of them tried

and all of them actually can, I can tell they gave their best. The construction of this movie is kind of just a mess. Wait, to what you're, I'm sticking with a four. You're sticking with a four. I'm keeping with this with a four because I feel like that was perfectly ringing true to me.

And I don't think Anthony Mackey was like served in this movie. In terms of like what he's talented as. What he's talented at in the MCU is underserved here. They kind of try. to make him into Steve Rogers. Yes. He's, he shouldn't be stoic. And it's not a situation that is going to serve that character.

Your character needs to have its own thing. Yeah. You know, I'll tell you guys, man, you know, Black Panther had his own thing, its own lore, all that stuff. They're having problems sometimes making some of the black superheroes in the MCU pool. Do you think, because I think what's interesting is. I think Chris Evans, because who he is as an actor, but what we expect from our white superheroes can give that like smoldering,

I'm a jock, but there's something hurt in me. And it can be a little understated where it's like, I don't know if we let a lot of our black superheroes be that. They have to be so much more. I'll tell you something that I think about it. So Captain America can be cool for reasons, that a black character can't. So Chris Evans as Captain America, who Captain America is,

is essentially this Uber Boy Scout who does the right thing at all times through his purview. What he thinks is right. Not the right things in terms of oversight or even collaboration or cooperation sometimes. I believe in me. I believe in my virtue. I believe in the goodness and the value of what it is that I do. And that is paramount in everything that I do. And I stick to that.

That makes Captain America who he is. I don't think that America believes that about black characters or black people. And I don't think that they would allow a black character or a black person to embody that. I think that there has to be some skepticism, some cynicism. they have to look at things in a way. I'm not just saying overall white audiences. I think if Steve Rogers were a black man, we'd be like, why are you so loyal to these ideals?

These ideals have never served you. Why do you think that they are so important? Why do these things mean so much to you? And that's the problem sometimes with these characters in the MCU and other places when they are black American characters. The problem is the perception of black Americans. Wakanda is different.

Like, we talk about it here. We joke about it here. You couldn't have a black character in America be that cool that didn't care about racism or slavery. That's why Black Panther almost works because you're almost freeing it from a lot of the black American baggage where it's like Tachala can almost, he can be a superhero.

He can be an invention. He can be something that you completely invent all of these reasons why he is different, from the thing. They have this spectacular technology. They have this spectacular way of life. They hide. They're isolationists. They don't believe in worldwide community or pan-Afric unity. None of that stuff. None of it. All the other stuff that has emboldened us with such an appreciation of our culture and the worldwide black experience, the Wakandans don't have to have it. And in that, you can just get into them. And it also,

in a way for us kind of lets black people here in America fantasize and envision this version of us that was able to destroy colonialism and white supremacy and like what we would be. But those characters aren't black. Wait, do you not in a way that that, that, that, that, that, Captain America is expected to be or Rody is expected to be. They're not. They're not black like that. Do you think that's the reason why? Because like, Coogler and everybody, when they watched the first Black Panther, they were just like,

oh, this is a James Bond movie where you can't actually have a real Black James Bond because so much of the movie would have to be interrogating why a Black person would be joining this racist project. Whereas, like, when you see Black Panther, he can be James Bond, but they don't have to spend 40 minutes of the movie convincing the audience that this. person isn't a traitor to them. Cougler knows us. Right.

Yes. And so because Ryan and Mike and Nate and all, they know us, right? So the Black Panther movie is essentially about the Wakandans confronting black American trauma. That's what the movie is about. Yeah. That's what Kilmonger represents. Black American trauma. the orphans of a world, the workhorses of a world, the people that were forgotten, whipped in order to build a society.

That against this society that is all-powerful, godlike in their mastery over technology, and completely sure of who they are. Like the fact that Kilmonger is legitimately the bastard son of two different worlds that brings his revenge and his fury and his imperfection. to that world and demands to be contended with. Like, that is the movie. And if they don't do that, then we're going to have too many questions. Now, the central question becomes what we want to be. Do we want to be the people with this incredible amazing history that knows who they are that can do anything?

Or do we want to be the people that are so angry from our trauma that we can't see past anything other than revenge? And it's a fundamental question, and it undergirds, the movie. Not to digress too much from what we're talking about, those considerations aren't as easy for characters that are Black American. They're not.

Iron heart. Iron hard. You have to put all of this stuff in. Legitimately, Sam Wilson is going to try and get the loan. He can't get the loan. These are problems that superheroes don't have. And when you look at that stuff, I don't know if people know how to write them. They overcool

them. They put all kinds of little shit. They don't know what to do with these cards. That was my first thought, because when I'm, like, my first thing was, like, Miles Morales and how, like, at first it was like, all right, he's a kid. He's, you know, half Latino, half black. But then, like, you get into the, what if he was Thor, right? And they go doing, like, all that stuff. And, like, it always gets too much. Like, there's a ceiling on, like, what they can do without being, like, wild and racist and crazy. And that kind of limits the creativity, especially when we don't have black people, people of people of cultural. are writing these characters. It just becomes something like they don't understand. And so they go to platitudes of things that for us kind of like, all right, bro, like, we've seen like, this is regular. We've seen this.

It doesn't allow for like real growth, real creativity. Ryan Coogler riding Black Panther, that makes all the sense in the world, right? That's a person who understands the struggle, understands, like, that character of killmonger to a T. Then you have, like, I don't, I don't know off the time of my head was writing Captain America and the Winter Soldier or Falcon of Winter Soldier. Falcon of Winter Soldier was Malcolm Spelman. By the way, I thought that show worked for a lot of reasons.

Right. Yeah, like, I loved the show. No, that's a better understanding than we grew up in credit for. But then you go to Captain America, Brave New World, and it's like, they don't, they didn't carry over that kind of, that momentum that we thought we felt with him in that movie. Yeah, that was the biggest missed opportunity from Falcon of Winter Soldier to this, because not only did it kind of not count the growth that came from Falconer Soldier in the that show, it's kind of nullified by a lot of things that are just there in Sam Wilson's

demeanor and character where, like, he's not really carrying anything new into it. It's just kind of a, like, a stagnant character versus the, like, kind of glowing Falcon that we all came to love in the MCU. And then, like, there's an indictment of the character in Captain America. Is Falcon and the Winter Soldier, if they were just like, fuck Captain America Brave New World, the new Captain America movie is just going to be Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Do you think we would have responded to it better? Probably. Yeah.

Just because there would have been a more natural story art there. By the end of the movie, he is Captain America. By the end of the movie, he's Captain America. We saw it. And, you know, his relationship with Buck, the connection to Steve, that probably works a little bit better. It definitely works a little bit better. The scene in Captain America, Brave New World, with him and Buck shares cream. Oh, my God.

It comes alive. It's perfect because these are two guys that, you know, Bucky is almost like an anti-Captain America. So he's a guy that all of that stuff didn't work for. So these are two guys that are still trying to find it. The fundamental error or problem in some of this stuff to me is, you know, our version and the way we look at black Americans. Like, you know, it's, we can get off this now because this is pretty interesting.

I almost want to break this out and put it out there for, people to, but like, just draw Superman with a fade. I'm serious. Just put a, put, when you put your fade on Superman. Oh, boy. When you put a fade on Superman, when Superman has a baldy, when he doesn't have the black hair. Just, just, whatever it is, like, indicators of blackness and how those things

intertwine with heroism, just small things. You're a kid, you see Superman, he's got that curly little hair that comes down there. He's got dark hair, hair, he's got blue eyes, he's from Candace. These things are tenets of American whiteness. And you start to connect them to the idea of heroism. And the meaning of being a black hero is something else. It's something really that fights against that. It's something that's not that.

And so, like, when you want to imagine people in the comic book pages and all of that stuff, it takes a really deft and intentional hand to make them palatable to all of these audiences. I mean, think about how we depict crime. Like, think about Batman. How in comic books do they depict crime? It is always there's graffiti on the walls. They in the hood.

It's all these people wear as a black person. I'm just like, wait, I know someone who dresses like that who is not a criminal. So the minute you try to make the hero black, you're just like, wait, why would a black hero be black? beating these people up. But you know what else? I know people like that,

and they are criminals. But you know what else they are? My uncles and cousins and people like that. And in a comic book, you do not have the time to extrapolate out to the greater societal ills and problems that Batman is actually fighting against.

Like, if Batman is putting his foot in the Joker's ass, I'm cool with it. But if Batman is going to South Baton Rouge, this is like, beating the fingers in my neighborhood. I'm like, Batman,

we need a different kind of help. We need to see you in media. Superman, you gotta think, Superman be beating up the criminals, and once he sees Lex, who's the CEO, he'd be out of the conversation with him.

They just sit down and have coffee. Play chess with Magneto. Like all of that stuff. Sit down to have a coffee, whatever, whatever, all of that stuff. So,

so I don't know, like when I, look at any movie, and this is way past Captain America Brave New World now. I'm wondering if Marvel sees this. They do see stuff like this because in the first Spider-Man game,

2018, you can like, arrest people for breaking in and high-speed chases. And one of them are drug deals. They're like, hey, these people are dealing drugs, you've got to go beat them up. In the next two games, Miles and Riala, Spider-Man, too, I stopped the game. We're not doing that. We're not doing that anymore.

We're not going wild. So people do think about these things and people do like, it's not like the big, you know, enormous change. But it's something like, yeah, why are we arresting people for doing drugs? Like, it's fine. You can smoke a weed. If I'm Spider-Man, you know, I'm arrested, motherfuckers for the fent. You know what I'm saying? I'm for the hardest something.

You're doing it. Like, if you're doing some weed, like, sure. If you swing down, it's like, oh, you got a, you just got, like, you know, a dime bag. I like, I like, but if you got, like, cocaine out of truck. Right. I wait. I like the idea of Spider-Man, like, coming down and assessing the hardware. being like, all right, well, what do you got here?

Okay. And you get some crap, we can't let that slide. Last thing I'll say, I'll be serious. You see how complicated this is? Yeah. You see how, you see how everything involving black identity is so complicated? Yeah. You see why Kilmonger is so complicated.

He's complicated. He ain't saying nothing wrong. He just doing terrible shit. He got a choke out. He got a choke out. Honestly, he's doing the thing that Jomi, you know, where it's like, Kilmonger wasn't wrong, but you're like, you can't be doing this in front of the white folks.

That's my fault. That's your legacy now. You know, I like, I like CT. CT, I trust. All right, Dan, I'm born again. Then, Joe Me, Steve, all had sevens. I had a five. Y'all, are you getting off the seven?

Can't get off the seven. I can't get off the seven. I can't get off the seven. Got to stay on that motherfucker. Got to stay on that seven. Seven is good. Seven is a perfect size. Seven is perfect size.

Seven is perfect size. You can't get off the seven. every day. Yeah. Not going to be sore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it depends on the girth. True. Because seven, like, long.

All right. I'm sticking with a five. Y'all's going to be sticking with the five either. Five gets a job done. Nothing wrong with the five either. It depends on, you know. Yeah, that's what she tell you. And then.

All right, sinners. Van, you added 12. I added 10. I'm interested in the most in this one. Jomi, you add an 11. Steve, you added 10. I'll start us off. This is going to be my.

first score that I bump up, I'm giving it a 12th. I think there's the definition of a 12th. That's not me saying that the film is perfect, but it is me saying that I think Ryan Coogler did something that I think maybe no one else in Hollywood has done this year, which is capture the way we used to make movies. And I think what I've enjoyed about sinners as time has gone on is that I think so many films are self-conscious about what they are. They're so meta. They're apologizing that they're a zombie movie. They're apologizing that they're a dinosaur movie. They're saying like, oh, we know you guys can't believe in this stuff anymore. And Sinners is the type of movie where Coogler is like, nope, this is a vampire movie. This is a mythos. You guys are

coming along for the ride. And I just think everything that's happened after it is the epitome of what a 12 stands for. Agreed. That's got to, I got to go up to a 12. I think even thinking about what I said on the podcast, I might have been underrated in this movie, man, especially when you go out and you see it, like, there's a lot of good stuff in theaters right now. But I go back, I look at the list and everything that we covered this year and all the stuff I watch outside. I'm like, nothing scratched that it like sinners did, man. Nothing felt like a cinematic event like Sennaz did. I aside from maybe like one or two movies on this list. It just made me remember, like, why I love film, why I love going to the theater. And you're not going,

you never know what you're going to see on a day-to-day basis. And then watch that and be in that theater experience, even with the booty-shaking scene, right? I'm still like, yeah, man, this is what it means. This is this is him. That scene has aged better for me. I don't have a problem with the scene, but I understood the scene, but

that scene has gotten better. You guys know how I feel. Yeah. I'm moving this up to a 12 as well. Damn. I got to flex a little tiny bit. I got to see this at a FYC screening with a Q&A hosted by Christopher Nolan and Ryan Cooghler. Oh, shit.

And seeing this on 70mm in like a pack theater again, it's pure fucking electricity this movie. It will reanimate your central nervous system. Because hearing that music, hearing that booming soundtrack, seeing those characters,

seeing the sprawling slices of life on screen, along with an incredible vampire movie, is exceptional, but then when you get to see like, kind of like the air apparent for all of Hollywood's royalty, that is Christopher Nolan, pretty much geeky,

out about how much he loves this guy's movie is kind of something really magical. And I'm like kind of in love with everything that this movie achieved. It's a perfect 12 for me, regardless of the things that I might not like. I'm sure I'm sounding like glazing and doing tricks on it right now, but I don't care. I love this movie. Playing drums? Steve, are you saying that after Christopher Nolan said that Cesar's 12th? Oh, for God's saying.

It took the white man. It took a white man. Oh, my, dad, that, that, dad, dad, dad, dad. I did. You know what? It's tough. Hey, what's up? The math is mathing.

Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, yeah, it was good. But then Christopher Nolan said it was great. You know, I didn't believe when the black people said it was cool. Hey, when all of the juquishers went out and said that they liked the movie, I wasn't fucking with it. That's not. But as far as if Christopher, no, I'm just fucking. That is funny.

That is how people are going to look at that, though. All right. So, next up. We have Thunderbolts. Van. No. Joe Me 9. Steve had an 8.

I had a 7. It's going to be interesting. We'll start with you, then, up or down. Thunderbolts is a 10. Oh, 10. We're here. Thunderbolts gets better every time you watch that. Yes.

I'm sorry. Y'all can say what the fuck y'all want to say. It didn't do the numbers. No, it didn't do the numbers for an 11. Brother bolts is a 10, bro. Thunderbolts is quality, quality. fucking Marvel filmmaking. I don't go fuck with none of y'all say.

I kick this. Shout out to you for rewatching Captain Erica Brave New World because I couldn't do it. But Thunderbolsh, that gets a spin. That's great. That's great. That's a spin.

That gets a spent. Absolutely. That's a 10. That's a 10. That's a good spin. Steve, are you continuing? I do like it a lot more. I can only move up to a 9.

You're moving up to a 9. I can only move up to a 9 because it's a desperate win for Marvel movie making. It really, like, and frankly, it's like maybe this is on its face of seven that feels like a nine

because we've been starving for a while but I don't care because it really it really does I honestly think that that's that was my main and rewatching the movie yeah it's like does this seven feel like a nine just because it's been so

I think we talked about that on the podcast yeah was like are we overrating it because it's been so long so we got like a competent type I don't know man I would like this is it's the best in a very long time and it's certainly amongst the best

Better Marvel movies in general. So, yeah, I'd go to a nine. One bucket show up, man, in the desert, bro. Punch the ground and flips that car over. Cinema, for real. I'm staying at a seven. Okay. That's fine.

Just stay maintaining. Maintaining. Hold it. Hold it. Hold it. All right. I think this will, next one would be easy and or season two. We all gave it an auto 12.

Is anyone coming off the 12? Absolutely not. I feel like 12's a lot. You got to come off the 12. Okay. Stop, Jummy. Tough. Calm down.

Calm down. Wait, Jomi, are you? No, man. All right. Stop fucking around. Okay? We're all keeping Andor season two a 12. By the way, like put Andor and Cinners up in the rafters.

We got 12s across the board for both of names. So on. Special. All right. Now, last of a season two. The three of y'all all had this one at a seven. I had it at a five. And I don't like to do this, y'all.

I do think it could be argued that last of the season two almost destroyed all of the momentum of the first season where I'm at a point where I'm like, damn, coming off the first season, we're like, HBO got another one. Oh, my God, they did it again with a zombie show. And now for season three, I'm like, I could see a lot of people being like, you know what?

I'm okay. So for that reason and a lot of others, I think I'm going to go down to a floor. Okay. You know, I got to say in my original score because I didn't go back and re-watch any of this. Let's do this. So if I was to ask you

what are the highlight standout moments of Last of Us season one, you guys, I'm assuming, have things that jump into your mind right away. What are those things for season two? I think episode two. The Big Raid on the town? The Big Red on the Town.

And Joel's Deaf are, like, legitimate I'm watching, I'm like, this is special television making right now. They are cooking. I think after that, it starts a decline that I think, and you can go back and listen, for the first couple weeks, me and you were like, eh, you know, it's not like, do. What can you do? This is what, you know, it's what Ellie is like.

And then you get to the final episode and you're like, oh, no, this is a character assassination at its peak, at its finest. For somebody who, like, enjoyed, like, seeing Ellie's growth in this. the game compared to... She didn't do this shit in the game? She did, but you could understand and you could feel it. Even if it was wrong, you could, you could... Maybe it's just us being her, right?

But when you're doing Last of Us 2 and everything that happens, at least up to this point in the show, happens in the game, you're kind of like, that's tough. However, you've been through a lot. I get it. Right. In the show, it does not feel that way.

It feels pecculling. It feels complaining. It just feels maybe too plucky. And it does not translate, at least in this iteration. I got very frustrated with thinking about the, like, everything posts episode two because, again, in the game, Ellie kind of needs to be more of an asshole than Bella Ramsey might have been capable of portraying. Bella Ramsey, a magnificent performer and how they portray Ellie,

in their minds is good, but not for the story that they're looking to tell as it reflects in the game. There's a great, like, because there's that flashback episode where she's with Joel and they... That's the last thing that you see in a game.

I don't know why they put that in this season. It's wonderfully moving and affecting... Pedro Pascal. And it's using the golden boy, Pedro Pascal, to great effect. I'll tell you something? Sure. the Pedro era might have flopped.

I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think it flops. Materialists made a shitload of money. Oh, guys. It's one of the most defensive movies of the entire year. Deficive? Yeah.

Yeah, but I mean, it did for 824 what it needed to do. That movie made a lot of money on not the biggest budget. Fantastic Four, not what anybody would have wanted. Last of Us, arguably, season two, not really his fault because it was. was like, no. He wasn't there. The highest highs was with him. Was with him?

So I think in a lot of situations, you're just like, oh. I don't say. It wasn't for Pedro. Yeah, I would even say, like, if I was going to, like, be down on it, I would say, eh, even. I want to say flop. Flop is harsh. You'd be like, you, it's kind of the way, like, you view Jalen Hertz and, like,

the game, or I'm sorry, we've recorded this a couple weeks early, but Monday night, if you hated Jailen Hertz, you're like, oh, it's his fault. this and this. But if you hate the coach, you're like, oh, it's the offensive, this. You can see me the way. Let me ask you this. Of the new era of quote-unquote stars, if we being real, Pedro was

probably the only one outside of maybe Timmy that could say, well, technically I opened the movie. This movie did he open? Materialist. Oh, you can't give him credit for that. Why not? You would go to that? You got to go to that. Like, you like you get... Dakota over Wait, wait, wait, wait, there's no way. Pedro Pascale is in five scenes.

and materials. I, but he's in most of the promotional material for that, though. I know, but if you were really going to do the, maybe not five scenes, maybe one in that. I love Jeremy Allen, Jeremy Allen White couldn't do it this year. I know, but if you're going to give, if you, I, Tom Holland hasn't really been able to do it. If you're going to give him credit for opening Mysterialists, it's not his movie. That movie has a star. That movie has a star.

Who? Dakota Johnson is the star of the movie. I don't know what you want. me to say. No, Dakota Jasa is the star of the movie, but saying like, she was the primary driver of putting butts in the seat, that's no shot to do. I don't know how you, I don't know, I don't know how you could say that. I don't know how you can say that he was. Yeah. I think he had probably more of a, like, we like, we love Pedro. We go on for. I think that was kind of the narrative and the momentum of everything that was going on.

But she was the person that, yeah, she was number one on the call. Yeah. Like, that's, that's really. So, so, so, but we're saying that as Pedro. So Jada. Sajee. Sals. You name me an actor outside of Timothy. And we're going to see with Marty Supreme if that holds if he could open a movie. But like... When I say flop, this is what I mean. And let me not be too... So if, if in fact this run was supposed to be a run that catapulted him into the next, next level of everything, I don't think that it happened.

That is true. I would agree with that. I'm saying that I don't think that happened. But how much of the run to you was tacked on during it or after the fact, where it's like a lot of times because we'll see a, it's kind of how the calendar shook out. But let's say there's no strikes. There's no this. Things are releasing in a different way.

We might not get Fantastic Four and The Materials and Last of Us and all of that. All over them like the same like three months. I think. Eddington. Eddington, all this shit. I think in a couple of these movies, he's just straight up miscast. I would agree.

All right. And so I think he is good and materialists. Right. I think his character works in materialist. But if you were making materialists, if he wasn't Pedro Pascal, he would not be the type of actor that they would have cast in that role.

They would have cast somebody in that role. Richard Heardt. We talked about it. Like he would have cast somebody like that in that role, right? But in Fantastic Four, he's straight up miscast. Straight up miscast. I don't care what anyone says.

It does not work. He's straight up miscast. He's in that role because he's Pedro Pascal. There were people who could have played Reed better than that. And the role wasn't elevated by the fact that he was in the movie. The role, to me, was actually brought down by the fact that he was in the movie. Not tremendously. It was fine.

Not tremendously at all. It was fine. But I feel like that kind of show the limits of what the Pedro Pascal situation is. Eddington was perfect because that's really what he is. But while I don't disagree, I guess my question is whether it's Jacob Allerty or Tom Holland or Jeremy Allen White or all of these guys. I could argue that I'm like, all right, you put any of them in a bunch of these Pedro movies. Are they doing that much better? Like, I don't, I actually don't know.

Well, what you're doing is you're looking at him in comparison to his contemporaries. That's a fair point to me. That's not what I'm doing. Like, if we're, if we're having two different, if we're having two different conversations, the conversation is it's tough to be a movie star. You're right. You're right. And I think some of these decisions and some of these, if we look at just the year and how the year went,

You look at a group of actors and actresses. If you look at Sidney Sweeney with Christy. If you look at Glenn Powell with The Running Man. If you look at Pedro Pascal in the different groups of movies that he was in, if you look at, I mean, throw me some more, Jeremy Allen White with Ayo. Iyo. If you look at like, this is not easy. We talked about this.

This thing is it's not easy, which is why it's sometimes important, and you can't do this, everybody takes their swings, right? It's important to be super intentional about the kind of roles that suit you that your audience responds to. If they offer you the big movie, you're going to do it. So there's never been somebody who didn't do it. It's just the thing. But it's harder than it looks. It is.

My last thing on Pedro, though, is he more of a Clooney type? where Clooney tried this, where it was like they were trying to pitch George Clooney as this big star, who could really be the center of movies. And I think he was still the center of movies, but as he gradually got on, you were like, oh, we don't actually want to see

George Clooney as Batman. We don't actually, like, he's not, he's more interesting as a pretty, like, character who's doing something a little bit more. But do you know what George did, though? I give him credit for this. And this is kind of the deal. So George does Batman.

And Batman is an interesting role for a lot of people. Because with Batman, you either have to grab really, really tight or you have to let go a little bit. Christian Bell let go of Batman a little bit. Christian Bell is Batman in Batman movies. But those movies are not, those movies have so much going on in them. Chris and Bill, he's willing to play Chris Paul's role in that. Yeah.

And set up other people and move the ball around. So that it's not a complete other times, I am fucking Batman. This is my motherfucking shit. It all revolves around me. Michael Keaton, right? Jack Nichols is in that movie, but Michael Keaton is like,

I am going to embody this character in a very direct way. Clooney comes out. I don't want to take too much away from him for, I want to put too much of Batman on him because it's an objectively terrible film. And a lot of decisions that were made are crazy.

The bad nipples. In a different way he could. Fatsy D. But what does he do after that when he wants to go back to big movie making? Because he had a couple of films there that were bigger films. What does he go back to? He takes his cluniness along with Sutterberg and a lot of other people. He takes his cluniness and he goes, where is my cluniness most useful?

I am beautiful, suave, cool, and mysterious. How can I make that into a blockbuster movie? Like, how can I take what I do? George Clooney and make that into why I can play Danny Ocean. And I can get this incredible ensemble, anchor the movie in me, but my brand of cool,

I can make that to something that audiences love and go to sea. The other movie star thing that we're talking about, that's so much harder than we give these guys credit for. To go be Maverick and be Ethan Hunt, and be the race car driver, and

be I'm running from predictive policing, and be To do all of those things, there is a movie starness that gets you through a lot of scenes that we just didn't have a lot of respect for when those guys were doing it. Right. Like, we didn't have a lot of respect for it. It's harder than it looks. The closest person, people are going to be like, you're not going to pick Timmy. The closest person who I don't think is always the strongest actor, but is getting there is like a Michael B. Jordan.

When you look at his filmography, he can play creed, he could play killmonger, he could be in center. And you could be like he's not always the strongest actor in the movie, but he's the one when you need the movie star thing. The camera goes back to him and you're like, okay. They think Mike is Denzel. Mike is Tom Cruise. Yep. And he is an incredibly capable performance that has that extra thing

that you can attach to a movie. Make it work. And make it work and make him get you to the end of that joint. A great floor razor. A great... Weirdly, this might be a weird comp. He reminds me of Arnold Schwarzenegger because he has like this...

Like, obviously he's ripped or whatever where it's like, oh, when you're in sinners, I'm like, he looks enough like an action star in that where I'm just like, oh, there's a part of my brain being like, I trust him as the hero. Right. Same thing with... Like, you trust that he's going to get you to the end.

Last thing we'll say about this as I continue my Pedro Pascal agenda. It never ends. It's legitimate. Like, uh... So Robert Donnie Jr. Okay, so, like, incredibly skilled actor, but also a movie star.

Yeah. Movie star. Like, you put him in a role, you put him in a place, and he's just able to do something that when Pedro Pascal was in Fantastic Four, Reed needed something.

Yeah. He just did, and it wasn't there. Is there a level of, I mean, I rewatched movie that came out on Disney Plus, they don't give them a ton to do and to your point though and I mean maybe we're just like skipping ahead

but like when they do give them something to do I'm not going to say a false flat but it's kind of it just kind of feels like everybody else when they had their moment he doesn't have a handle on the character he also what we also might be circling is like he might be a TV star and like not in a bad way maybe Pedro

will like with more movies I'll be like oh no he's a capital M movie star but like you know who Brian Cranston is a perfect example where it's like after Breaking Bad, I feel like you were seeing Brian Cranston in a lot of movies. Brian Cranston is one of our greatest actors.

But there is a level where I was just like, oh, I might like seeing you on my TV, which is no shot at him. They put him in Godzilla for 15 minutes. Yeah, you might be right. You might be right. All right. Yo, next one we have up is,

this will be interesting, Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning. Dan was at an 8, Jomey was at a 7, Steve was at a six, I was at a six. I'm not going to belabor this. We drop it to a four. Drop into a five for me.

Y'all are going to be mad at me, man. Van, what do you think? Mission impossible final reckoning? It's got to change. It will change. It will change. It will change. Goddain, tell me.

I'm going to stay at eight. Really? Yeah, I haven't gone back and really. I only can watch it in bits and pieces. It's just the plane scene, man. No, no, no, no, no. Everything that's got to the submarine and planes. In my rewatch, the submarine is better than the plane.

That's fair. The plane is, I would agree. Submarine is insane. The plane is higher octane. Sure. But the submarine, they're going crazy. It's pure tension. It's awesome.

So here's what I'll give y'all this. The first hour? Terrible. Cheeks. Great. Cheeks. Right. Not great.

If the movie started with him going into, into the base with the president and being like, I need you to trust me. one more time the movies are 12 for me but the whole movie but I can't give it a 12 so I can only give it a 10 you're all right great that's great for you Joe

I'm very happy I'm fellas I'm very happy for you I mean y'all understand this is my life you understand what this means to me you live this once he once they get out of the base and it's the submarine and like that

just put it in my veins fellas but there's that's movie making there's an entire half of the movie that's nigh unwatchable. And it's kind of, yeah, but if you again, it's like a little, it's a fair war, it's a fair war out. Fairwell out. This Coquito can't make me talk.

It's a farewell tour. You know, hey, remember when we did that one time? Remember this? Remember? Editor couldn't say farewell at the first hour? Wow, man, that's really, that's really real. Wow. It's not, it's not great. I'm giving the 10 for the last two thirds of the movie.

Great. Last two turns of the movie. Here's what it is. I'm sick. The last two thirds of the movie is a 12. The first, what do you call it? The first third, probably like a two.

And I don't know how the math works, but the average out to a 10. So that's where we are. All right. Let's go to ballerina. Van, you had an 8. I had a 6. Jomi had an 8.

Steve had a 7. Yeah, this, we are dropping this for me from a 6 to 3. Oh, my God. I see now. Valerina was just kind of. No.

That's kept. That's cap. I felt bad because here's the thing. I want more movies that have a woman in the lead, especially doing action, especially in franchises like this. It's just like ballerina left no imprint on me. Once again, I forgot it released this year. I've written this back twice this year. It's going up.

It's going up. It's going up. It's a couple times. This movie is fucking awesome. You're fucking crack. It's great. They don't like, they don't too much John with. There might be too much John Wick.

And like, it doesn't really like, yeah, like it doesn't. really like get super going until you get to that town. But even the open, or not the opening

scene, but one of the opening scenes where she's driving off and the camera pans up and then it gets hit. And then it gets hit and it comes back.

No, we got the better version of ballerina when Anaday Armis was in James Bond. And it was like a 20, that was like a 15 minute scene.

And maybe that's all we needed. No. No. No. Man, you're lying. This movie is so fun. All right. Man.

It's fun. It doesn't hit the highs that John Wick ever does, but that's fine. That's fine I'm gonna be honest with you There's some kill sprees And this bitch that are pretty invasive

So the plate shit gives me every time I went to a three Steve went to an eight Are y'all bumping it up? No, I'm saying that eight I'm saying that eight I'm saying that eight But like

Flamethrowers This movie was crazy It was great I loved it I loved it All right You know what We should go to a break

Before we get into the next one So that might actually It's tough So let's go to a quick commercial break. And when we're back, we'll finish the rest of Midnight Mully. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping.

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All right, we are back. Ironheart. Then you gave it a six. The rest of us gave it a five. Now. Fellas, we have to be honest. We have to go into our hearts. And don't even think about anything else other than being real.

All right. Two. I didn't want to do it at the time because I didn't want to do it to my sister's. It could. It was a tough time. Because here's the thing. They're doing the same shit to Wonder, man.

Like that shit comes down next year, nigga, I forgot. Like, I'm like, A, when it's out, I'm not going to dance on the grave because I want this shit this shit to succeed. Right. People work really, really hard on this. Right.

Iron heart was just a missed opportunity. Iron heart sucks. That's, and that it's not. It's tough to say. Yeah. It's tough to say. Where are you going to go? Four for you?

Four for you? I went back and watched a couple of episodes. It's like, you know what? I'm going to go to a five because it's not unwatchable. Four is below the watchable threshold. Five is watchable. Ironheart didn't get there. The problem is the first three episodes are legitimately like kind of unwatchable.

The second half is when it gets kicking. And you're left in the state of, why didn't they just start here? Because they could have started. It literally the show should have started the way that it ended. I don't understand the decision. making because she's like, oh, this, the cape, okay, I'm gonna work for escape guy. Oh, what's a little weird? Oh, I gotta go. Like, if the, if the, if it starts there, we're probably, it's probably not like it. It's a far more interesting concept and a great

starting off point to a show that I could actually get excited about rather than starting a character at negative four and starting again. Like, it's one thing to do an origin story, but to like bring her back post-Wakonda forever and then bring her all, like, lower, lower. Like, you got to really be elevated. But I get, like, you know, you got a set of character. It's like, yeah, you reset. You got a set character back, reset, have them build up again in a brand new story.

I think the thing was, there's, it spends two and a half episodes, not even spilling its wheels isn't even the right term. They don't do anything. Yeah. They do nothing. Another show that is trying to do a lot, but doesn't do very much. No. So, like, you know, we got witches and all kinds of crazy shit.

It's like, it's like they, it. But even that was interesting, though. It was better than what we're getting. It was kind of interesting. But look, all I'm saying is, like, I don't know, man. Like, I liked Ironheart more than other people probably, but it's also probably because I wanted to like it. But, like, there's still a lot for the character to do.

Yeah. Still a lot for the character to do. I don't know if we ever seen this character again. We will. We definitely will. What I will say for Ironheart, I think I'm going to give it the same thing that happened with Captain America Brave New World, where I was like, yeah, a lot of this just should have been in the movie.

Like, it's like, I feel that way about She-Hulk. I feel that way about Miss Marvel, where I'm like, the things, the bones of the idea are there. And it's just like, when you stretch that shit out for six hours, you're just like, damn, I don't know if there was six hours of storytelling. I think there was like a good 92-minute, two-hour movie in here, and y'all tried to make it six hours. Yeah, it's probably, yeah, I probably got to bring it down to a four.

It's tough. It's tough. Yeah, I'll keep it out of five, but it's, It's not great. It's above. Right? All right. So this will also be interesting, Jurassic World Rebirth.

We all gave it a seven. I'm staying. Just, I'm staying at seven. I think I'm only going to go down to six. I want to talk to somebody real quick. Brendan. Okay. Brendan, I, we do trivia on Sundays at a greyhound in.

Shout out to, you know, my trivia team out there. Brandon came up to me and was like, yo, he hosted trivia there. And he's like, yo, listen to the podcast. I love you. Big fan of us. I loves you guys. He said, listen to a podcast. I cannot believe you gave Jurassic Park rebirth a seven. That's crazy.

It's one of the worst movies I've ever seen. It's one of the worst Jurassic Park movies I've ever seen. Brendan, this is for you. Bringing it up to an eight. That's right. Hell yeah. Honestly, bang. I'm staying at a seven, but this is, I don't understand why people didn't have any fun with this.

This movie, it's stupid. It's stupid, but whatever. It's extremely stupid, but at least this movie has. phone with the stupidity, right? You dropped Jonathan Bailey from a 30-high-foot cliff, and he landed some water like it's Minecrafting, like, I'm good. Rupert Fren going like, like that. It's dumb as hell.

But it was fun. Yeah. The Tyrannosaurus getting up behind the floating device thing and then disappear like Freddy Kruger? That's fun, man. That's fun. Part of it, because I've been thinking about this, too, where I feel like a lot of people will get mad at us for scores

where I'm like, we watch so much IP content. We see all of the movies. We don't stop, like, at episode two. Like, we watch all of the TV shows or whatever, where I'm like, yeah, Jurassic World might have been, like, two or three movies you saw this year. I'm just like, when you see something like Jurassic World being fun and you see, I don't know, running man, there is a difference.

They're both bad, but I'm like, I would watch Jurassic World again in a way I would it with Running Man. And that has to count for something. Yes. Man, we're running after dinosaurs, man. That can only be so boring. If you have fun, the movie work. When Mimarsha Ali, man, was about to sacrifice himself, bro.

And we also have seen movies that have premises that aren't, like, cutting edge that are so bad that they took the fun out of them. And it's just not one of these movies. It's a fun movie. Fuck it. Shout off second half team, man. We up. All right. So next, we have F1.

Van You gave it a 9. I gave it an 8. Jomi gave it a 10. Steve didn't give it a school. because he was not on that episode, I will start, y'all, I'm bumping F1 up to a nine. I really have fun in this movie.

Because also, if, hey, if Netflix is buying fucking Warner's and the theatrical experience is dying or whatever, we do got to champion movies where I'm like, bro, I'm so happy. I saw the shit in IMAX. I'm happy just being in the theater, seeing the fucking new technology.

This movie was dope. I got to bump this up to an 11. I saw it. All this at the 70 millimeter at Citywalk. Nuts. Brother. When it goes silent man and he on the track. Because the races are so noisy, so loud.

All the music blasting, which is all bangers, by the way. I don't know if you've listened to the soundtrack. It goes crazy. All right. He's not all. They got a round wave song on it. Okay, they got a raw wave. There's like a tape McRae, but there's like this. The tape McRae.

Fellas, when I tell you, I don't listen to No countrymen. I don't listen to no white people with music for real. But the first song that he plays when, like, He's trying out the F1 car for the first time. Bad as it used to be. I put that in the car on the way home, man. I was doing his 90 on the freeway, bro. I was cooking, man.

Wait, can I ask you, is this fucked up? So, you know, sometimes I'll be listening to a song and I don't realize who it was. And that happened with Morgan Wallin, where I was like, damn. You got me. Were you pumping up? It's tough. Were you like, hey, it's that heat?

And then one of my wife said, oh, you listen to Morgan Wall. I'm like, hey, oh, sometimes the N-word tapes come out and you still got it. You still got to spit it. The song's hit. Morgan Walla got some joints. He got some joints. I'm not fucking with it. I'm not on that side of Spotify.

Well, I'm not. He's not in my playlist. But if he comes on, comes on where? Sometimes the shit pop up. When you play it, I don't know. I don't fucking.

Waste it on you. Wasted on you. I'm sad at a nine. Steve, what do you score this movie? I gave this a nine. This is an incredible fucking movie. Hell yeah.

Yeah. It's amazing. Um, special. Like, the technicals on this are actually insane. And I need to be seeing this come Oscar time for some technicals because this is like something that's genuinely impressive. I can't wait for F2. I can't wait for F2 either. Yeah.

F2. Black in the saddle. Black in the saddle. Black in the, black behind the wheel. Shout up to F2. But, oh wait, they race it at the Indy 500. Hold on. Wait.

Break by one. Charles, you're cooking. Brick yard. You're cooking. All right. Now, arguably, for one of the cinematic events of the season for our show, Superman 2025. Van gave it a nine. The rest of us gave it an eight. I'll start with you, Van. Where are you going? Staying at a nine. Okay. You don't seem too happy about that.

I thought you'd go up. I thought I would go up too. But this movie is as solid as a nine as I've ever, ever done on our podcast. I'm standing in a nine. I've watched it a couple of times. I enjoy it the exact. Act same way. That's good. That after, maybe I would have a little bit more enjoyment, maybe we'd go up to a 10 or whatever like that. No, it's a 9. It's a really, really, really well done, solid movie,

but it is a 9 with room to grow. I'm a 6. I'm a 6. I'm a 6. I'm cool with an 8 here too. Like, honest, and I'm fine with the fact that it doesn't change because this is perfectly, it's a lot of fun. Perfectly fun.

And I'm very, very impressed that it has this much staying power. Like, because, like, after a while, we might be like, all right, we spend this Marvel movie back. Like, we've said all their needs to say. Superman's still a lot of fun. And I still think that it's great. Yeah, we don't got to believe for it. I'm going to just drop it a few points to a five, but. Five of Superman.

The hell. What the hell happened between summer and now? Yeah, man. I think Superman is not a bad movie. I'm glad, like, I think it works. Right. I just think it contained within Superman is probably, a lot of the things that I have come to be very just like,

not only worried about superhero movies, but being like, oh, if this is going to be the DC, you like just, okay. Okay. Does it bother you that that's a criticism outside of the film itself? Yeah, no, I feel that in the film. Right, but follow up. This sounds like you might have been soured

because of peacemaker season two. No, it's more so I think the, the colorful, the colorful, bombastic, world where everything is coming at you constantly there's always something on screen it's a superman movie but also there's lex luther and ultraman and green lantern and hawkerle metamorphle nis nothing yeah but it's it's a balance so it's two things one we do got to chill on james gun because we do be we we do be a little harsh oh i love james gun it's you're fun yeah i'm talking

it's mainly it's mainly us you got to chill on hamis be stole out but i think he talked to about this. My M. Spistola is James Gunn. Why, why niggas get cool nicknames? Why? Like, that's what you got to do. I mean, his last name is Gun. You can't really. I know, I'm just saying it's like,

you were on Twitter, bro. The gun is loaded. Yeah. This gun ain't jammed? I'm not. This gun's shooting. I fuck with James Gunn. But like...

I like James Gunn. Yeah, go ahead, Joe. The thing is, and he talked about this. He wanted you to fill in a world, like, when you opened a comic book. Yeah. And it's already happening. Right?

You're not like reintroducing people. It's not like you're starting from page one. You're starting from, because you don't, like, when you first read a comic, right, you don't naturally start on, all right, I'm re-volume one, right? You pick up comics somewhere, somewhere, and it's already going on. It's already happening, right? That's what you want to Superman to feel like. You pick up a comic for the first time, and you're in the middle of story,

and you're just, like, experiencing this world for the first time. I'm Miss Pistola. I'm Mest Pistola. So, like, I can get why you feel that way, but that's intentional on his part. No, no, I think a choice by a director can be intentional, and it can just great on me. And my big worry for James Guns, D.C. isn't even that it's going to be bad. I feel like it is in safe hands. There's just the level of it where I'm like, yeah, I think this era of moviemaking might be over.

And I'm not talking about the superhero movie making. I'm talking about just like the meta aspect of it, the constant need to just like, show us something at every single moment. And there's parts of his Superman that I really, really did love, but I just don't feel like latched onto. So is this like an Emperor's New Clothes moment for you where like you were wrapped up in the moment

when you saw it the first time? And that's what made you give it an eight. And then now you're like, okay, I kind of see what you're actually doing here and it doesn't really move me. Is that what you're, because this is your biggest drop off. There was a little bit of being wrapped up in the moment.

There was a little bit of not trying to yuck anyone's yum. There was a little bit of just like, just watching clips from the movie and everything. I was just like, did I actually like this movie? Or was it just not bad? Like, I was just like, oh, James God made a really good, like, Superman movie. He just did not make a Superman movie that I actually enjoyed. You know what this, man?

You got soft. You got soft. All this is yawke people's yums. You used to come on here and be like, hey, that it was garbage. Three. Actually, well, here, he went until December. This is the new tech. He off everybody at the end of the year.

And you got to start off new things. And you got to start off new in 2026. Brand new slate. Yeah. I see it. I see the play. Next up, we have fantastic four first steps. Van and I gave it an eight.

Jomi and Steve gave it a seven. Van. Where are you going? Eight. Stay at eight. I got a ride. I got a rise to one eight. Really?

I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it in the theater. I think coming off, Superman, I think I was looking at it. like, like maybe like two comparisons. And like, ah, Superman was so fun and bright.

And this movie's like, it's kind of a doubt or a little bit. Because they're like, hey, we got a, it's a baby or the world. And everybody wants us to pick the baby. And then you talk about, like, you know, the Pedro Pascal stuff. And it's just like, eh, but then I went back at the crib. And while I don't completely disagree with your take on Pedro, I just think, like, he has the least to do. The movie's really carried on Sue Storm's shoulders.

So Sue Storm's Shoulders. And I think Johnny and Ben, Joseph Quinn and Ebon Monsbaccarat doing like an amazing job and it just and Julia Gardner's Silver Sheper like it just all came together in a way that I don't think I really appreciated it the first time

I'm watching at the crib I'm like oh no this this is kind of gas it's kind of fire like I'm having a good time so I'm gonna go up to an eight Steve? slight ding to a six for me damn this movie actually isn't it feels wrong

a little bit at a six but I feel like like in my heart it's kind of where it needs to be because it feels like just a tiny bit messy near the middle to the end about like how Sue really needed to like get the world back on her side to like not sacrifice her baby and that was really clunky to me and then the final act was a bit off but there's still really great stuff where I love the chase scene with Silver Surfer is probably some of the most thrilling things I've seen in the MCU in a very long time we need more mole man in the streets we need. him. I love mold man.

But the edge is kind of dulled for me. Unfantastic 4, a tiny bit. I'm gonna just ding it. One, I was just gonna go to a 7. I still really, really enjoyed this movie. I just think outside of the glow of like seeing Galactus on screen or whatever, I just was like, oh, there was some nets to be picked. I wish I would have seen them, like, fight as a team. Like, they do the thing where they're all, like, separate doing their own thing.

Right. On to see them, like, use the combos, man. Like, fight as the Fantastic 4. should have seen more. Not his stretching limit, by the way. I wish the movie was a little bit more dangerous. A little bit. You never felt like the Fantastic Four was in nature.

I felt like it was a safe version of the film. Yeah, but I think, like the movie didn't really, in my opinion, ask us any hard questions. About the characters? I mean, these movies are always best when they're asking us really difficult questions about who we are, not about, like, superheroism about who we are. Like, Iron Man is asking. really interesting questions about

the nature of greed, the nature of excess. Captain America Winter Soldier is asking questions about freedom versus safety. This movie wants to ask questions about self-sacrifice versus heroism, but it doesn't in a very safe way. I wish the movie was out there a little bit more.

I mean, I wish the movie interrogated Reed's genius a little bit more. You're talking about something contemporary to talk about. Reed is essentially a tech lord. I wish the movie had a little bit more to say about how genius and humanity intersect and all of that. It's a state in New York. It is just the first film.

Also, do you think part of that is because they've made three other movies before, and, you know, yeah, I can speak about the first one all you want, but for the most part, those three movies are not, like, will, like, loved in terms of, like, fantastic film. Well, I mean, look, the reality is that, like, to make the character contemporary, and I know they set it in the 60s and all that, stuff like that.

And it makes a lot of sense. We'll probably learn more about Reed and him figuring out and the Fantastic Forward and figuring out all other stuff. I think some of the stuff they did with Johnny was really interesting. I saw the portrayal of thing was interesting. You could tell that there was some stuff missing. That probably would have been in his art. But I just wish the movie had gone there a little bit. We'll see what maybe they

do that. Yeah. All right, Alien Earth. I gave it a seven. The rest of y'all gave it an eight, I'm a drop two or five. Okay. I'm going down to a seven. I went back and watched a couple of episodes. It's like, I'm going down to a seven. It's not bad.

There were great, great, great moments. That moment where it was basically an alien movie was exceptional. Fucking fantastic, but it got goof mode towards the end. I think I got to bring it down with seven just for like, just for that ending. We'll talk about. There's one anything that actually really pissed me off that we'll talk about later. But this Alien Earth, like the last episode, it was cool. But then you, we used to make television a way that when it ended in May and you got like a cliffhander, you'd be like, all right, we're going to be back in September.

Let's lock in. I'm cool. Let's go. This show's not going to come out until 2027. I'm not waiting too long for part two or two of this little thing. It's just not really, I'm not really messing with that. So, yeah, I got to bring it down. slightly down to a seven as well for me

all respect for this show though because it actually took swings that are genuinely brave for a show like a lot of big questions yeah and we had like a lot of big deep conversations about what the show was doing and even whether or not it was successful it provokes those

questions and conversations and I respect that show infinitely for doing it oh yeah now one of my favorite episodes of the year we did a we watched demon slayer infinity castle after another for Demon Slayer. Van gave it an 11.

The rest of us gave it an 8. Van goes on. Come on, you got to come off. Come on. You got to come off that 11. The anime stands, the weeds was on you. Like, come on.

He'll be eating his words when this gets best animated feature. So I'm, I'm coming down to a 10. Okay. But let me talk to you guys. I love it. I'm coming down to a 10. I do.

I just love that in rock to his word. But let me talk to you guys about something. This is why I don't like y'all. This is why I don't like y'all Because I've never seen no shit like this before Right That's what y'all don't understand

Y'all are being jerks The same way that this is the same way That got me here Jerkness I never seen no shit like this before I had to do my homework Mugan train The Entertainment District and all this shit

This shit is really interesting Yeah And if you have never seen it before It is very interesting It's just stuff happens and the lines are crazy. It's like, she stabbed me, but my breathing technique, I move my internal organs to avoid it.

You're like, what? Like, how could he do that? How is that any different from a boy from Queens having spider fluid come out of his racist? Because I love that you ask this. Because that I'm groomed into.

I'm groomed into I don't know no, that I get. I'm groomed into, hey, I fell into a radioactive pit. I didn't die. I got special powers. I'm groomed into, I'm a gamma ray scientist.

The gamma got into my body. I didn't die. I become an unstoppable rage monster. I could go on. I'm groomed into that. I understand that. Radioactive spider bit. Marvel Cinematic Universe is the only place

where radiation is good for you. You get radiation and you get special powers. Turtles? All of that, whatever. Like, all of that stuff. I'm into that. I never saw where breathing techniques could make you into a dog.

I've never seen it. Who's it making it to a dog? They dogs. All of them are straight savages, like, because they know how to breathe. That is something new. But don't you think that that is actually a healthier, a healthier superpower to teach to our kids? I fuck with it.

But I'm like, with the X-Men, do you know part of my obsession with the X-Men was deconstructing their powers? and trying to like learn their powers. Yeah, that doesn't happen in anime. You know everything about how shit works. In an anime, these guys like, they could breathe and it allows them to do these amazing things. And I'm fucking with that.

I like that. And I get into that. Not only that, but I'm in the theater and I'm having a great time. Are they doing weird stuff story-wise? Yes. But I'm in the theater and we're going crazy in that bitch. We laugh. laughing at the flashbacks. The flashbacks pop up.

People are like another fucking flashback. They laugh. But I'm seeing all of this stuff happen on the big screen and I come away like fucking right. I fuck with it. And guess what I get? I get from people and the shit. And by the way an 11 also considers that this shit made

like a hundred a billion dollars. It was like one of the best animated. I come back and y'all don't have to worry about me on this shit no more. I came back in here and gave my honest opinion that I had a fantastic time and the movie was very successful, and it was like, Van is Dick Ride. You know what?

I should drop it down to a five. No, the shit is, the shit was fun. I have fun. Am I only did I have fun in, in Infinity Castle? I have fun the five days leading up to Infinity Castle. Like, me and Bozeman was on the couch, like, oh shit. Like, they in this,

it's horrors in this. Yes, the ex-workers. Oh, I apologize. Apologize. Apologize. It's Horrors No, I mean, it's

It's really daring storytelling And like, it's weird I love it. Adam, man, you can get away with the explaining like of the power stuff like the breathing techniques, all that.

You try to do that, speaking to X-Men, you try to do that with Cyclops. Like, yeah, his eye beams come from the punch dimension and all that stuff. You sound silly as well.

Look, I was Wattman, old girl that was fighting that knew she was going to be killed. Yeah. That should have been the last one. Because the other two, well, the other one was cool.

The middle one was cool. The last one, that's the main one. We were there for, we saw that dude die 30 times. But even that, I submit that just the animation alone is an 11. Yeah. But you know what?

You guys didn't like the 11? It was a pander. Fine. 10. I should bring it down to a 1. I have fun though. Fuck y'all. It sounds like you're actually,

you actually don't want to bring it down to it to an 11. Not really. Not really. But I really. But I really. that it's like, if you compare this to like other 11s, it's probably not in the best integrity situation of

the, the, the, the midnight meter, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a 10. But I, I really have fun. I don't care. I'm gonna just drop it to a six. See, and this is, when you're a fake boy. What? Like, you're like, you're like, you ain't no weed, bro. You ain't no weep. I'm the weed, but I'm not, you're not. I'm gonna tell you, I ain't no weed.

I'm a real weed, bro. He's riding the movie train. I'm gonna go to Korea by myself. Korea? Yeah, isn't that where they hang out? That's Japan. Oh, so webs is only one country? Japan is...

So what do you call weeb? Oh, you know, do you call... It's short for Weiaboo. Oh, Korea boo. No. Care of? Wait, no, my little girl Brooke told me one time that K-pop people are called

Korea booze when they go too far with K-pop and they want to have sex with K-pop. Okay. Is that true? They call Korea booze. That's what Brooks said. Let's a fact shake this real time. That's a media company.

All right. All right. Go-Boo. No? No, I'm sticking in an 8. This was a great time. Those guys were boxing like crazy. According to the Gemini, AI sucks, but that's what Google gives us.

Acribo, Korean plus weeaboo is a derogatory slang term for a non-Korean person who's overly obsessed with Korean culture. Damn. I do know some people where I'm like this getting a little. They too into it. You know? It is what it is. I'm sticking at eight. All right, guys.

One battle after another. Van gave it a nine. I gave it an 11. Jomey and Steve gave it a 10. Before you go, Van, we'll end with you. I gave it an 11 and I think I got swept up in the moment. I did see this again on film and it was great. I think I'm going to drop down to a 9.

I love this. movie. It is one of my favorite of the years, but I gotta be fair. Everybody's saying, Josh only like Oscar, babe, blah, blah, blah. I know, I can objectively watch a movie and I think this is a very good Paul Thomas Anderson movie, but

yeah, I think it's good. Yeah, this is literally not even in this top three for me. And I'll bump this down to an eight. It's great. It's great. It's made

head and shoulders above 90, of the things that I saw this year. It's really, really good. I'm going to keep it out of 10, but the problem is movie's going to win every single award that's ever existed. What difference do that make? I don't go to fuck about the Oscars and tears. Guys, the white people.

It's the white people. The math in my head, because I think attendance is fine. I think it's a really, really great movie. I think Chase Infinity, Tiana Taylor, Leonardo DiCaprio, Benicio de Toro. Like, there's a lot of, like, incredible performances.

And Sean Penn, you know what I mean? Like, the movie does incredible things. I think the thing that is, like, kind of bumping, again, it's, like, people, like, love this movie. Maybe, like, I've been talking to Jack Sanders a lot, and that's the homie, you know what I'm saying? But this, like, this is the film. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is a film that when we look back in 15, 20 years, people are going to be

like, oh, that was the movie of that year. That might not be true, right? we'll be able to say, don't we were there, it was supposed to be sinners, this and that, the third, but at the end of the day,

like, this is the movie that it's going to define in the books. It's going to be able to write history about this movie, is my point. Oh, my God.

Am I wrong? Are you said, well, no, I want to make sure, I'm saying this right. Like, are you saying that,

like, this is the movie of the moment, as in, like, politically, as in like, it's when, it's kind of like,

when you go back and you look at, like, for example, I forget the exact MVP Charles Barkley's MVP, right? 92, whatever. It's 92, 93.

Whatever, I think it was 93. Same year as Jordan's last championship. It was the first repeat. And you go, oh, yeah, Charles Barkley. Like, if you were there, you'd be like, no, that was Michael Jordan was the best player that year. 93, by the way. 93. You go, no, I was there.

Michael Jordan was the best player that year. But if you're me, you're born 96, you look back in history, you go, oh. You see the number. He was the MVP. He was the best player that year. And you're like, yeah, Charles won MVP, this and this and that. But I'm talking to you. I'm talking to Bill.

He's like, no, no, no. Michael Jordan was the MVP. Like, that's what I'm saying, is that when we look back at 2025, the movie that's going to define 2025 is one battle after another. Despite the fact that I think all of us would agree that that movie should be sinners. I actually think it might be sinners. I disagree. I think when people look back, I don't care how many Oscars,

one battle after another wins. But you can't discount that. You can't sit there and be like, I won all the Oscars, but. So I would like to have a conversation about one battle after another that has nothing to do with the year in movies or sinners or anything like that.

Just how good of a movie one battle after another is and it is a good movie. But what are y'all seeing? I swear to, I promise you, like it is a good movie. But what, what am I, missing. Like, I gotta be missing something.

It's, one battle after another is a good movie. Do not get me wrong. There is nothing. Forget about all of the criticism that you guys heard me give on the big picture. Sure, sure, sure. Or anything like that. Forget about all of that. Fuck all of the political or whatever overarching cultural, just on the film itself. What am I missing? Like, I don't fucking understand it. It's like the movie, it's a good movie.

It really is a good movie. But, like, I just do not see what everybody else is saying. I mean, I get what everybody else is seeing. I get it from the fact that, like, if you're a PTA head who definitely raised a certain type of set of fire. But I am, though. But I love The Master, but I love There Will Be Blood. I love Magnolia. I love Buggy Nights.

I love Hard Ate. I love some of the other. Phantom Thread. Like, I love these movies. But you don't think that you are a PT head in a way. that a lot of newer cinephiles are not, where it's just like you're, you were there from the beginning,

where I think if you're someone closer and age to me, PTA was a gateway into deeper films. And you're just like, oh, what inspired him, all this stuff? Where I think, like, that type of letterbox crowd, there's just an air around him. And I think that this was the, this was a coronation moment where you're like,

oh, he finally gets the money. He finally gets the, like, to do the big action. spectacle. He's finally working with Leo. You have the star making performance in Chase Infinity. I get how this is just like a Super Bowl for the letterbox crowd. If I'm taking all of that out in a vacuum and being like, oh, I saw it a second time and I liked it more, but I probably emotionally connected to it less. That's probably why I'm digging it. It's not even all the political shit around it. I'm like, when I think back, if I'm just like, what did you connect

with more? Sinners or one battle after another are perfect examples. I'm like, I know that maybe one battle after another is technically the achievement, but Sinners in my heart is the movie that is like I don't even feel like that's fair to one about after another. Do you know why? Obviously, I'm going to connect to sinners more. The movie was filmed in Clarksdale, Mississippi.

I am from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. My father is from Maryland, Louisiana. When you look at Clarksdale, if you replace Cottonfield with sugar cane, I know that. Senators is a celebration of my culture. It is a celebration and a deep look in. to all of the motivations and realities of people that come from that area. I'm not from the Delta, but it's adjacent, right?

So obviously, I'm going to be more connected to a bunch of black people running from white vampires. But don't you think that's a little unfair? No, I'm saying it's unfair to one battle after another. No, what I'm going to say is my connection to sinners, of course there is that stuff, but almost it's at a lower rung. My appreciation for sinners as a movie is I'm just like, oh, Kugler almost did the more difficult thing, where he's just like, yo, I'm going to make a blockbuster in a world, an original blockbuster in a world where they tell me only Christopher Nolan can do that.

Like, it is actually- But see, I'm not talking about none of that. I'm not talking about how the movie is perceived or contrived or how it was contrived or what, I'm not talking about none of that. I'm talking about in seat, in theater, in movie, look at screen, what's happening, how much did you. you like and how much do you enjoy it, how much are you in? That's what I'm talking. I'm not, if we were to have a conversation about, like, the movie making and all of that stuff like that, you start to get into people's individual motivations.

And those things start to color your opinion of what you're watching as much as what it is that you're watching. For what, one battle after another, and it is the culmination of a sublime filmmaking career from PTA and this sort of, like, you know, like. creative and economic crescendo of all of that. All of that matters. But the reality is I looked at the movie and I just don't see the godfather. I don't see Casablanca.

I don't see Citizen Kane. I do not see The Matrix. I don't see what you guys are seeing. I see a movie that is quirky, that is fun, that moves well. I don't see the event that everybody else is seeing. And that's completely okay. forget about sinners, forget about anything else that happened. I just wonder what it is that I'm missing,

and I'm being honest about it. Right. Do you feel like you're genuinely missing out on something? Because I don't think that you've been, like, because most of the movies that you've said that don't resonate you, you kind of wash it, kind of washes off your back. No, because I saw train dreams, and I thought that shit was fucking phenomenal.

Right. Right? And so, and so. I haven't seen that yet. I hope I haven't seen it. So, like, there are things that I've watched, and I'm like, oh, shit, for whatever reason, this is working for me.

Sinners, one battle after another, is a fantastic movie. But the way it's being talked about, I don't, I swear to God, I promise you, I honestly don't get it. And I bet you that there's somebody that feels the exact same way towards sinners, where they're like, they think it's great.

By the way, by the way, if you felt that way, I get it. Right. And part of the reason, if you feel that way about sinners, I totally get it. And I'm willing to believe that part of the reason why I'm so connected to sinners is because of something that starts before the movie does.

Right. And that's completely okay. Now, there are other films that I can say that I just sat down and was transported into the world, and those movies that I don't feel that way. It was just about the film. But of course, sinners had less work to do with me than one battle after another did.

Of course it did. It certainly did. I enjoyed it. I don't even really compare those movies as much as everybody else is doing. But all I'm saying is, one battle after another, nine, that's a very good movie.

You can argue before 10. Whatever it is to everyone else to see, man, before the movie came, my last thing I was saying, I ask around my colleagues here, how good is it? Oh, no, people didn't go, it's good. People don't go, it's very good. People went, it's fucking incredible. It's phenomenal. It's the best movie in five years.

It's the best movie in 10 years. If you think one battle after another is buried in parasite, you dick ride. Yeah. You dick, I'm sorry. There's no, it's not. So people coming up to me it's the best movie, it's not the best movie in 10 years,

it's not. Best movie the decade. Yeah. If I'm going to be a little bit of an asshole about it, I do think this is the thing that I always try to push back in all type of criticism where I'm just like, well, of course you thought one battle after another

is a perfect movie. You built a church to this type of filmmaking, to this type of auteur. Like this is everything that, like, if this is to me, like, a very break moment in terms of how we watch movies and what movies are and movie theaters and whatever, Paul Thomas Anderson represents a certain thing. Leonardo DiCaprio, Sean Penn, everything, where it's just like, I don't know if I've ever

been part of that cathedral, where it's like, I've been a fan of PTA. He's one of my favorite directors, but it's like I wasn't at home and everybody, all of my friends and my family were like PTA's the second coming. That's something that I had to come through later. And I'm like, I get why Most of the critical apparatus were white, older, 40s, 50s. This is the Jesus moment in a way. I don't know if it could ever. Totally understand it. I don't disagree with you.

I totally understand it. I don't disagree with you. I don't. No, no. I make it too many sports references. But it kind of reminds me of the MVP for last year where PTA is Josh Allen and Ryan Cougler is Lamar. And they got comparable seasons, but they won it for P.T.

so bad that they're like, this is it. You know what sucks, bro? It's like, you know, first of all, this is people's art and this is people's expression and they're putting so much into this stuff. And I'm so cognizant and aware of that.

So even to sit down and talk about it, everyone's putting so much into this stuff. Sure. But like, yeah, I want it for PTA too. I think, honestly, if filmmaking is in the hands If somebody like that, it's better off. Yeah.

It's better off in the hands of somebody like that who takes a chance, not a chance, who casts Tiana Taylor, who gets to work with Leo and puts prominent wood hair, all of this stuff. Like, if it's in, it's probably better off. I just looked at the movie and I'm like, the movie was fun and it was like good. I put, how about this? I put one battle after another on the level of a Django. Cool.

Like late stage, great movie, but not. But also, like, I put it on level of a Django. Like, it's, it's, Django, great movie, good movie, fun, by no means Tarantino's legacy, though. But, like, if we were like, legacy to funny. If we were like, hey, Django is, I put it on a level of a Django.

That's like, it's a Django level movie to me. Mm-hmm. With some of the same problems. I think, man, even if I, like, PTA is my favorite director and I, like, one battle after another more than you, I think also something that I push against is, I think when you are a black critic or a black host

or you're talking about this stuff, writing about this stuff, there is a level in this started even before this when I was in school where if you don't like something that is very much in a white space, it's like, well, I can't take you seriously. Like, you didn't like this movie. Your opinion is invalid. Your critique is invalid where it's like,

I remember being a kid having talks where it's like, the Beatles was the greatest rock band to every, I went to school for and when I would be like, well, I didn't listen to, like, my parents were listening to Stevie Wonder, my parents were listening to Earth, but they're like, yeah, that doesn't matter. It's the beat. I was like, oh, and that's usually when I see the one battle after another comp, I'm like, I get pissed when people are forcing me into being like, well, if you have problems with this movie,

not only are you an idiot, but your taste level is like. And that's a toxic level of opinionation that has been like, opinionation, that has been like amplified a million fold. because of the internet. Because like, if you don't like this, well, fuck you. Discourse doesn't happen. My opinion is right and yours is wrong.

That's all that happens. And like the level of amplification that comes for that from the letterboxed and the film bro crowd, this was it. This was their time to put the walls up to see who gets let in and who doesn't. Yeah, look, I'm not even trying to diss them.

I understand how much they, I'm just saying just outside of everything else. We could have conversations about the portrayal outside of everything else. I just don't. This is one of the ones. You know, you guys have happened this before, like a song that everybody love.

Then you're like, it's okay. And you're like, and sometimes I get frustrated because I feel like I'm missing out on something. Like a record, everybody loves. Man, it's the hardest record. I love this record. I love this record. I'm like, I heard this shit.

I'm like, all right, what am I missing about this record? But it's on the same side of that coin. You're going to love a song that is wildly underappreciated by people. And you get to be passionate about the thing that you love and tell everybody why I know this is actually the shit. Yeah, I get it. This is why we love that. My whole music career was that shit.

People were, I remember Pushy T's numbers on the board came out and everybody was like, That's the one. I was like, yeah. I mean, that is your life. That is your life. Like I talk to people all the time and be like, yo, what's your favorite Pusha T's song? I'd be like, alone in Vegas. I let you into my diary to inspire.

It's the song that I most connect to. You're talking about it. It's a song about a guy that outlived all his friends. And it's like, I'm like, that's my favorite Pusier Tee, alone in Vegas. Like, that's my favorite one. You know, whatever. I get it. You don't get it.

It's a personal thing. So it is what it is. What about after you guys? It's a fantastic movie. It's a great movie. It's a great movie. All right, peacemaker season two. We'll have to spend too long on this.

Van, Joan, Game, a second. Van and Joe McGee gave Peacemaker season. to a seven, Steve gave it a six, I gave it a three, I think I'm going to maintain out of three. Okay. I'm going to a six. All right. I'll stay at a six as well. James Gunn just succumbed to his worst instincts

here. Man, you know how I was saying we was too hard on James Gun earlier? I got to go to a four. Yeah. Wow, you weren't enough. I got to go to a four. Damn. That last episode, I went back and I was on I was on the max. I went back,

I looked at it. That last episode pissed me. off. That's not an episode of TV. Isn't one of those things where it's like Falcon Winter Soldiers finale when like if that last episode just straight up didn't exist, it'd be a better season? No, but imagine if that was episode five and then episode six was the first like 40 minutes of Brave New World.

Except that you couldn't cast none of the actual people in Brave New World. So it was just Sam going around talking all the friends from the TV show that we don't really care about. Hey, Justice for Sarah. Bucking, you all over a date. Oh, right. They were setting up whatever type of thing in the universe that we might never see again, right? They're like, we won't see Peacemaker in this iteration ever again.

There was like five freaking music videos in that thing. No, like, actual, like, character moments that we connected with. They tried it with Peacemaker and James Gunn's wife, and it didn't work. And so I'm looking at it, and I'm like, yo, this literally could have been an email. You could have just been like, hey, um, Title card. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They love each other now.

Daniel Brooks is acting service for everybody. Yeah. And that's the end of the season. And then, oh, by the way, Flurry is part of the team now. Look at us. Yay, we're happy and lovely together. It was a waste of my time. It was a waste of your time.

We, we deserve better. Shit. You hate James Gunn. No, that's my guy. Shout out. Shut up. Big Jim. All right.

We only got four. We only got four left. GenV season two. All right. Okay. Dan gave it an eight, Steve gave it an eight, I gave it a six. Jome, you gave it a nine. I'm dropping this one down to a three.

Oh, what? What the fuck? No way. Come on. Three, come on. No. Genvi rocks. Why?

Don't do that. I was because here's the thing, once again, just thinking of the season, it's just this made me less excited for the last season of the boys. Nah, no, no. I'm saying that eight. What's you guys got? I'm saying that eight. All right.

I went to a nine. I'm going to eight. Okay. But it's still cool. Don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah. Staying at a date.

This, this movie, this season is great, wildly impressed at how they can make a spin-off show this compelling. Predator Badlands. Van gave it a nine. Jobie gave it a nine. I gave it an eight. Steve gave it an eight.

I'm going to just drop this one down to us. It hasn't been enough time for me to drop it down, which is kind of the thing with these last couple. Yeah. It's always hard at the end of the year. Yeah, with running man and with, wait, hold on. We can for good.

We do have to have a little conversation. Okay, that's fine. But running man, but like, it's hard. It hasn't been enough time. I don't know if I have enough. I think I'm sick at night for Badlands. Saying it at 8 for Badlands, fucking awesome movie.

It's really, really cool. Running Man, I agree with Van. Maybe it hasn't been enough time. So I had a five, Van had a five, you out of five, Joe, me, Steve out of four. Wicked for Good was all sevens except for me, who gave it a one.

I am sticking to that one. I got to drive it down to a four. Yeah. So are to you? No, but I'm thinking about it. When I, like, I think about my, experience. And I think the funnest part of the film or the funniest part watching the film was being in the theater and laughing, not with them, but at them. And then being like,

this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. This is great. I've had a great time. It's like the opposite ends of Jurassic Park, a rebirth where Jurassic Park was dumb but fun, but I'm having a great time. I'm laughing with them. Wicking for good is stupid and dumb, but I'm laughing at them. And in the moment, you just like, man, that was a great time. Then you really like, think about what the movie was trying to say and what it was trying to do and how flat and how dull it was, and you're like, ah,

if I was, if I'm watching this like, I'm thinking about, I would never spend this on the crib. You got me confused, right? So, end of the day, I got a, actually, I dropped down at 3. It's just not, it's not. Okay, wow, shit. It's, uh, nah, it's not there.

I haven't seen it again. Down to a 6. I still had fun. There's still some great songs. but it's a wild misstep. It's a crazy miss. It's a bummer. It's a bit of a bummer because we would,

like we said at the top of the show, we love getting swept up in our love for the first wicked. It was genuinely a fantastic time. And it sucks that the second act is a letdown like that in both the musical form and in this. And it's kind of worse in the movies because the songs that they added are terrible. Mad of Marble.

Switch it around. Wicked Witch. Uh, yeah, so a six for me. Not it? What happened? You guys aren't online. It's an online thing. That's a fucking, man.

Yeah, that's pluck. That's what TikTok train is plug? Yeah. That's that type of shit that niggas don't supposed to be doing. Are you keeping a state out of one? Come on. We don't do. All right.

You're going to bring it to the, you got a product to a zero? Yeah. Another Mulligan's in the book. Look at us. 2025. 2025. That's it. We got, we're going to, we're going to,

I propose that we do a show. We do a look-ahead show to 2026. We're doing over-unders. Yeah, we were doing over-unders. You guys were right. Oh, daddy. We got one. Charles, are you excited about 26?

It's an IP fest. Dude, there's a lot going on. That's your new name, Itman. It's man. You're IP-Man. That's good. I love that movie. When It-Man first dropped, we didn't know whether or not to call him.

man or IP man So people would be like Hey, hey, bro Hey, weird Barbershop Hey, bro, you seen, you like that type of shit

You seen that IP man? I'm like, what? That IP Hey, hey, that nigga, hey, that nigga IP man. That nigga IP man, he,

he the one that he trained Bruce Lee. They made the movie about the nigga who trained Bruce Lee. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. Ah, see, I know.

You ain't never seen that IP man. I'm like, then I get around my friends. It's like, oh, it's it man. I'm it man? You're IP man. You're IP man. Your IP man.

Next year is the emergence of Charles Holme, it man slash IP man, because there's nothing but IP for the guy who loves it so much. That's a wrap. We ain't asking y'all to watch nothing. Send one of these to your friends. Okay? Thank you to all of our producers.

Thank you to Alea. Thank you. Just name some people out. C. C. C.J. Devon. Shout out to everyone.

Our Juno. Man. Our Juno. We're thankful for all of you guys, man. Jomi, hashtag, not in front of the white people on Twitter. Chuck, take us out. It's the last show of the year. RIP to this studio.

It's about to make me cry. And to the Midnight Boys is the best podcast alive. What's the difference between Butter? And butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention. Why? Because real matters. So whether you're pouring milk, melting cheese, or just grabbing one more spoonful of yogurt.

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