The Ringer-Verse - 'Black Panther: Wakanda Forever' Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: November 11, 2022

The hour is upon us and it is time for the Midnight Boys to give their instant reactions to 'Black Panther: Wakanda Forever' (04:07). They also discuss the fantastic introduction of the film's villain, Namor, to the MCU and what he means for the future (50:57). They also analyze the exciting final battle and what the ending means for the MCU, as well as the legacy of the character as a whole. Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks,

followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today.

Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. Welcome into the Ringerverse. This is, of course, the Ringers Nexus podcast. For all things, fandom, we are. Jomi did explainer at our dinner on you've got questions. He's got answers. We are Steve, the architect, almond, the builder of all things. We are.

O'Ban Van, he of the receding hairline. He of the resurgent hairline. We are. Code Baby Chow, the 24-carrier closer. Oh, whoa, whoa. That's not my name anymore. Hmm. I'm Coke baby.

Kakula, Kakula kha. Kha Kha Kha Kha Kha Kha Kha Kha Kha Kha. The feather serpent brunch haiti. Together we are known as A Midnight Boys. Bihu!

Follow us on socials, Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save Jummi's job. Follow us on Twitter Blue. Oh, boy. Oh, dear. Paywalls, baby.

Yeah, man, for $8. $8 a month, baby. You can get the midnight boys. Soon to follow us on Mastodon. Great band. I actually like them. Yeah, they're great. Yeah.

But yeah, so follow us on socials. That will do Jomey a big solid, save Jomey's job. Programming. Rami. What, yeah. Programming reminders. Friday, the House of All. gives you their deep dive on the latest episode of Andor.

You guys may have forgotten with all the hubbub surrounding what's going on with different movies coming out, that there is a singular piece of Star Wars excellence that's airing every single Wednesday on your screens. You guys have disappointed me and your reactions to it. Stop saying that, man. Stop saying that. It's the best.

Best show on TV. All right, we will have to have a conversation re-ranking Star Wars content because Andor is climbing up my all-time list. Quickly. It's in the top three already. It's in the top three. It might be top two. It might be top two.

It might be Empire and then Andor. Oh, you're so full of shit. Wow, wow, wow. Come on, man. I'm ready. You're so foolish. Oh, wow. Like this.

Come on. Come on, boy. And on Monday, House of R will be given their deep dive into Black Panther Wakanda forever. But on today's show. show. We're giving our reactions to the highly

and hotly anticipated sequel. It's finally here. It's the Black Super Bowl. Panther. Wakanda forever. You know, it's funny? It's really, technically, the Super Bowl is the Black Super Bowl.

That is very true. That is very true. Niggas. Niggas everywhere. Yo, yo, can we not? Can we please promise ourselves this episode will behave? Can we not?

No, we can never. You can't do that. Okay, no. All right, got to get into this now. This is a big moment in Midnight Boys history. Steve, please run the spoiler warning. We're getting ready to talk about your listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming.

To begin our reactions, as always, Coke, baby Chuck. is going to put you in the need to know by giving you the Midnight Manifest. All right, this is the Midnight Manifest for Black Panther, Wakanda Forever, directed by Ryan Cooghler, screenplay by Coopler, and Joe Robert Cole, starred Petitia Wright, Angela Bassett, Peter Njango, and Tenich Puerta. We begin, in Sherry's lab as she frantically tries to save DeCala from a mysterious illness by recreating the heart-shaped herb and killmongers destroyed in the last movie till Queen Ramunda arrives and announces that Tachalla has passed. The kingdom of Wakanda celebrates Tataala's life, even as they have to defend themselves from a world that's eyeing their vibranium now more than ever because the country does not have its protector. Meanwhile, the U.S. government finds vibranium at the bottom of the sea with a device built by Riri Williams, aka Ironheart.

But more about her later. But they are stopped by Namor and his army from Talakhan. Eventually, Namor arrives to warn Shuri and Ramunda in Wakanda that they need to deliver Riri to him immediately. So Shuri and Akoye set out to find the scientist before anyone else can at MIT. The Talcon Warriors, though, are ultimately successful in kidnapping Riri and Shuri. And as a result, O'Koye is stripped of her leadership role in the Dora Milaget. The queen then asked Nekiah to assist in rescuing Shuri and Riri from Namor. Namor is busy showing Shuri that their kingdoms are not so unlike.

They should work together. Unfortunately, Niki's successful rescue mission means that it's all out war between Namor and Wakanda. Namor invades the country, kills Rwanda, and warrants he'll do worse. Sherry recreats the heart-shaped herb, becomes a Black Panther, rallies the troops, and figures out a way to strip Namor of his powers. Then a big, third act to fight ensues because it has to, and Shuri doesn't let vengeance consumer. No Wakandans and Talakhanians hug it out.

Then, in a post-credit scene that is such a tear-jurker, it made me weak. like a little baby in the theater. Shari finds out that her brother had a son with Mekiah that's also named Tchala and that has been your midnight manifest for Black Panther Wakanda Forever. Thank you, Chuck. That was robust. Of course.

Instant reactions. Your immediate thoughts of the movie. Straight up, what happens? As soon as the credits roll, Chuck. Oh, I did not. I didn't know how to feel. I was a mess of emotions. There's something that happens and we will talk about it at the end that like totally devastating. stated me, I think that this movie had to be so many different things to so many different people.

It had to be an emotional sendoff for Chadwick Boseman. It had to continue the success of the first Black Panther movie. It had to push the MCU forward, especially as it's been a little bit rocky. And when I left the movie, I can easily say this is one of the best Marvel films I've seen all year. I think it might be the best easily. But yeah, it's such an emotionally complex movie and a sticky movie. I think it's equally cathartic and confounding in certain areas, but I left

being like, they did, they did the thing. Like the thing that Wakanda forever needed to do in terms of like kind of giving all of us a chance to really, really feel our emotions about Shadowclothesman in that first film, I think it accomplishes.

My first thought coming out of theater was like They did it. They really did it. You know, we, we didn't know what this movie we, you know, would hold. You know, we knew, you know, about Namor. We knew about, you know, they would cover Chadwick's death, but we didn't, you know, know, know about, like, how it would feel coming into the movie, you know, how that through line would play. And leaving the theater, I was like, wow, they made, like, one of the best Marvel movies.

We've seen in a minute. So, just, well done all around. Like the movie, when he did his job, did more than that. I really, really came out of the theater going, wow,

like this is a, this is a great time with the theater. The absence of Chadwick Bozeman and having to follow that up is an impossible task alone. And I think this movie really,

like, takes it right on the chin with the amount of times that it can, you know, sit in reverence in his absence. And, like,

really carry on. What a legacy that being Black Panther is now. And for as much as we want to move the MCU forward, I think this is a wonderful like sort of reverential look back and what it means to be a comic book fan. And I think that like as much as this movie I think stumbles at times, I think that it's a very

poignant and emotionally fraught movie that I really enjoyed at times. I think this is a great end to phase four. Wait, uh, Really quick questions. Really quick question, because you were there with Steve when he saw this at first. At times. Did Steve, did this activist try to invite his variety of black women to this movie and cry? And, like, really showed that he was really feeling this momentous occasion.

Not making the pod. So, oh, it's absolutely making the podcast. It has to. So, so this is the thing, right? He didn't invite anybody with him, but I saw him on the prow. You know what I mean? I saw, I saw him on the prow. You know what I mean?

He was basically Willy Wonka in the chocolate factory. He was Willie Walker at Essence Fest? He was he was in the chocolate factory. He's like, yeah. He's looking around. He's like, there's no one woker in this fucking theater than me. Every time, what's the CIA agent? name again. Ever Ross, is he trying to get his

Everett Ross on? Every time Ross came on the screen, he was like, ah, hate him. What is he doing in this movie? Colonizer! Colonizing! I don't know if you saw this. After the movie, I saw Steve get on his phone, you know, and he was just like

going through texts, you know, just see Black Panther. I was like that future meme. I've been thinking about you, Wakanda forever. Oh, Steve, Steve, you got that off too. See what I'm saying? Steve, you got that. flowed out a little bit too much. See, I'm telling you.

You know what I'm saying? I've seen it. I see it. I tell you. Last night, I had got some M&Ms at the theater. And I was like, hey, man, you want some M&M's? And Steve was like, you know I love chocolate. I'm like, whoa, my God.

Damn, Steve. Oh, disgusting. What did you think of the movie, man? What were your first reactions to the movie? I thought it was great. I thought I loved it. I didn't think there was a very good chance that the movie would be bad. You know, there's just too much talent involved.

But I think Black Panther, I think Black Panther movies, even though, you know, my, my, my, my thoughts about the first film are well articulated. Now, I think Black Panther's movies do something that is, that is really hard to do in that, they are MCU movies that feel in a way like different and singular cinematic achievements. They exist. The hardest thing to do about an MCU movie is to divorce it from the MCU

and to involve these characters, involve these subjects, and not have it feel like it's just a page turn of a comic book, that it's a rich, lush, vibrant world of all its own. And they do just a fantastic job of doing that. Like just almost better than anything else. They do like a fantastic job of doing that. Like I was completely embroiled, not even so much in this as the, uh, the sequel to Black Panther.

Because it really doesn't feel like that at all. It, to me, this doesn't in any way feel like a sequel to Black Panther. It feels like almost a reboot in a way. You know, like he's not there. We're not continuing his story and realizing and protecting his kingdom. It seems like a reorganization of almost everything that we knew. It's characters that we saw before, but it doesn't in any way feel like a sequel to Black Panther. This movie is as much a sequel to Black Panther as Infinity War is a sequel to

to the original Avengers. They don't feel like sequels to one another. It feels like so much has happened between the two of them that they're just a different iteration of a movie with like the same characters in it. And so I really got into like Tawakhan and like what was going on there and learning a new people and getting involved

in a whole new origin and all of that. I thought that was executed perfectly. You know what I'm saying? I loved it. I loved it. It had a lot to live up to. It did. It had this entire cultural revolution that Black Panther was, the death of Chadwick. Did the movie live up to it? And let me tell you why I'm going to start with Steve here. Because Steve was at times in us there. The movie stumbled at times. It was great at times. Steve, do you feel like this movie lived up to what it had to achieve? And look, we're joking around. But if you did just honest opinion, did the movie live up to what you feel like inside? It said. It's a lot. set out to achieve. Yes. I genuinely do think that it did. It's because it had to do so many very hard

things from the jump, knowing that this movie will bookend itself with a very, very touching tribute to Chadwick, both the man and the character of Tachala. It was incredible to see that. And to know that, like, we got probably a new all-time villain performance out of this. We got a kind of great reset for the character of Shuri and what she means for the MCU going forward. There are a lot of things that I could probably either nitpick or think that weren't as good as they could have been. But in the end, I think that this was incredibly well-executed

and a good, good sequel to, Black Panther and a great end to this phase four. I'm also going to just say, I don't think Steve is wrong for saying like the movie stumbles. This is like a two and a half, two hour and 40 minute movie where it's just like what the movie does well, it does so well. I was just like, God damn. I always knew to your point, Van, I'm like, there's no way this movie is going to be that. I just have to, I had to come to terms. Like we saw this early with the fact of like what I loved about the movie, which is the quiet.

parts about what it means to lose a patriarch, what it means to like, for especially a stellar black, a black women cast primarily, what it means to have to survive after tremendous loss, those quieter moments, or even just the quieter moments between like Shuri and Namor and their whole thing is the movie I want to see. And then there's a bunch of like, for lack of a better word, like MCU bullshit where I'm just like, I get the fact that like there's some things about this movie, a lot of them having to do with Ironheart, which you just have to keep the machine running, where it's like, we need to introduce more characters, we need to introduce more things, where I was just like, okay, not the movie I want. I get why it's here,

but it's not the quieter movie that I just don't think an MCU movie can be in 2023, which is fine. I still loved it, but I do think there's some fat on the bone, if we're being real. Yeah, it's got to be some fat. Jones? I mean, for me, part of the way, part of the I think while like I do agree with you guys, the stuff that the movie does well, to Charles's point, at least for me, it does so well that I'm looking at the other stuff. I'm like, yeah, like that's like kind of annoying. But Letitia Wright, Angela Bassett, and my guy,

Tainis Querta, in their bag for two hours and 41 minutes. He was the man. He carried the movie. Oh my God. Oh, my God. Can we say it might be a top three? He's not a villain, but it might be a top three antagonist performance in the MCU. He's definitely a villain.

And it is the best, like, antagonist performance in the history of the MCU. Oh, wait, better than Loki, better than Thanos. We're going there. So, Thanos is not necessarily a performance because it's a CGI character. I understand that it in, in, I assume you mean, so it's a CGI character. I'm just asking. I'm not saying, I'm not ranking yet. I'm just putting it forward.

So, Loki performs, when I say, Loki as a villain, right, is never fully realized to me. Like, Loki is the villain of Avengers. He is the villain of Avengers. Don't get me wrong. But Loki as a villain is never fully realized. Loki is a villain.

He's the god of Mischiff. He's a villain for very selfish reasons. and Loki doesn't really become a fully realized character to me in the MCU until he realizes his nobility. You know what I mean? In this movie with this villain, his nobility weakens him at the end. And that's why there's a scene at the end where they're like, we cannot believe or like, Nomura is like, I cannot believe that you knelt to them, that you yield it to them. I cannot like his strength is in the fact that he must destroy any threat to his people.

And it's like, it's more akin to Zod and Manistiel, which I thought was a great villain performance, wasted in a terrible, clunky, violent scattershot movie. Amen. Daw, you're going to have the Snyder fans on your ass. No, when I say, I don't mean it's terrible, but like overall, the movie just don't do nothing, man. You know what I'm saying? I fuck with Manistee.

degree. But overall, the movie just don't do nothing. But Zad, and the reason why Zod wants to do what he wants to do, is like totally clear in the movie, which is the crowning achievement of the movie, and I feel that way about Namor here. Just an unbelievable tour de force, virtuoso

performance to me with him and with their people. I was I could not agree more. On their side. Nemble had some voice. Like, he was spitting, bro. I was like, hey, my man, like, he gotta be do spitting facts right now.

Come on. Like, you, he's like, you decided to open the whole world up to what's going on because you cool with the Avengers now. Great. They came for us. That's your fault.

So go fix it. I'm like, we were all, we all got vibranium. We were all chilling. Okay? You decided, hey, we want to, and the world is like, we want more vibranium.

Now they're coming for us. Go fix it. Oh, I'm calling. coming back here. You know what I'm saying? Or I'm coming back here to deal with you. I was, I was feeling him.

But the minute he killed my queen, Angela Bass, I'm like, nah, bra. We got, like this is. Well, that's the rules, right?

Food too close. They did it in the first movie with a killmonger. He had to chuck out that old lady. And, you know, in this movie, he had to kill a, no, once he killed the queen,

I'm like, yo, sure, he beat this man's ass, I mean, that's how it goes. Look, I wasn't rooting for him. Well,

I was, Actually, bullshit. I don't know why I just changed up. I was. Well, I was. Damn, what a race trader you are, man. Like, damn, we sold our people out for nothing, bro. First of all, don't make me get technical now because...

Don't make me get technical. But... Oh, my goodness. But no, I just thought it was beautifully done. I thought it was incredibly done. The movie, the second time we saw it, because we saw it last night, it was one thing. Jummi and I saw it a couple of weeks ago.

And, you know, the film begins, obviously, exactly the feeling that I had when I woke up one morning, and I got a random text from a friend of mine, and it just said Chadwood Bozeman had died at age 44 a couple of years ago. And it's the first thing I looked. I saw it on my phone. The film begins with that same type of what the fuck is going on. Like what happened to him?

How could he be sick? How is he gone? What did I miss? That same feeling that I felt when I'm like, no one told me, I mean, we had seen that Chadwick was thin, but people were speculating that he was doing it for a role or that there was something else going on. No one, we did not know that he was close to passing on. We did not know the degree to which the cancer was ravaging this body,

but you wake up and you go, Jesus, what did I miss? What happened? Like, where's my king? And that is, they managed to capture that so intensely in the first scene to where it's like, okay, he's sick, but like, what does he have? He's dying, but like, why? Everyone's scrambling to figure out what's going on.

That actually happened in real life. Everybody was like, yo, I'm calling people. I'm like, yo, man, did you know, Chad was sick? Did you know Chad was sick? Did you know? Who knew? Did anybody know like what's going on? Like what's happening now? Is this true? Blah blah. Like everybody's and then boom, it's like, his family says it. When his wife came out, when the family came out and put out the statement that yeah, this is whatever, it's exactly the same way when, um, when the queen walks out and goes, he's gone. And you just have to live with it. Like, there's nothing you can do. Nobody's

coming to save you. There's not going to be a, there's no respawn. There's no reboot. We can't write the script to do it over. He's gone. You got to live with it. That is your reality. And when that scene comes on and then it goes silent right after that and all we see, I'm about to start crying. And all we see are just the memories of Chadwick Bowesman, I was like, damn. And to be honest with you, that is what I was afraid of.

And I know that there's the only way, that's what, that was my fear. My fear was like reliving that. And there's no way around it. It's just a fucking sucky fucking break. And there's, and I, gotta say kudos to all in them for being brave enough to to approach the movie in that way

because I would not have had the bravery. Like I just can't imagine that that's what I didn't want to do. And it was there and then you just, I don't know, it was like heart wrenching. The second time I dealt with it a little bit better, but the first time I was just like, damn. Yeah, man, I saw the movie

with you the first time and I, it was one of those things where you're just like, all right, we're going to come see the movie. And like you said,

man, it just kicks in to high gear with you got to save Tchala. They were like, oh, in my mind, I'd even like, I'd even process it.

So we started like, oh, oh, man, like we're, we're really doing this again. And, you know,

and it's just, like you said, the child felt in real time. And to see Shuri worked so hard to try to save him and then you know the guy's like hey you get you should go be with him you know you should go be with your brother in his last month she's like ah I got it and then the queen comes down and you know she's got tears in her eyes and she's just like your brother's dead it's like I mean that's yeah man that's really it's really how it felt back then I remember it was

a Friday night we were sitting uh watching you know basketball watching hoops bubble hoops and like you get the text, you know, you get the tweet notification. And you're like, nah, this is, it's not real. Like, nah, this is, this is cap. And then, you know, you see the tweet, like, his formation official Twitter. You're like, bruh. You know, and Steve mentioned this, you know, in the, in the film, the movie bookends. Like, you know, we see Sherry struggle with, you know, accepting childhood's death.

And then at the end, she's going through all the memories. and honestly, like, I saw it twice just like Van. And the second time when she's going through and you see them do the handshake and you see him walk, you know, into the throne room and you see him like, that was, that was the tough one. That for me, that was, that was a tough one because, you know, we lost someone who,

we didn't know we were losing. You know, we had no idea that he would be taken from us so soon. And the fact of the matter is, he was such a special, special, not even forget what he did as the child, just as he did as chat with, you know, was just a special human being.

And, you know, for us, for us to take that journey with Shuri, you know, was like one of the things the movie did extremely well. And yeah, ultimately, man, it just hurts. It just hurts. And, you know, we, God, it's just, it's tough. It's just tough.

The movie's opening does such a perfect job. Like, if you're ever unfortunate, I've had to deal with this a couple times, that feeling of being in a hospital room and knowing it's the end or, like, being in a waiting room and knowing, hearing the beeps, hearing that somebody's like about to die.

I think what happens when you see Shuri is that immediately the film hones in on such a human emotion where you feel like you personally could have averted this. Even if you know in your mind, like I couldn't have done anything. Like Shuri's just like I can fix this. If I do this one thing, we can an overt disaster.

And I think the movie does such a job of being like, no, that's what we all felt. We're all like, oh my gosh, like, what could I have done? Could I have cherished Chadwick more? Could I have watched more of his movies? Could, like, if I knew that he wasn't going to be here, like, maybe things could be different. Maybe my emotions could be different. And that's not true.

Just like, people die. That's just a course of life. And I think that it's such a brave and visceral way to start a movie because you feel like Shuri for the rest of the movie. You feel like this is somebody who failed. This is somebody who, even though she did not fail, Tachala at all. all, there is still that feeling, no matter how many, like, months or years go by, you're like, what could we have done differently as a people, as a culture, to cherish this person that's

no longer with us. And that is such a brave way to start a movie, because then for the rest of the movie, you're like, oh, we're sure. We're all working through this. And you risk never being able to get your audience back after that. Yeah. And they, they do. going off from that incredibly emotional and devastating beginning to know that we start our story here.

Like that this is where, you know, Shuri needs to rise up and feel that sense of responsibility and not want to, you know, abandon her post. Like, she considers herself a failure. How much of a failure could you consider yourself when you're the greatest mind on planet Earth in the most technologically advanced country on earth and you couldn't figure this out and you couldn't stop to do something and everybody in her life,

everybody that is at her side and trying to like bring her back from all of this, we see on everybody's face, especially the queen, but like everyone is trying to rally from this loss and the kickoff from the loss of, of Tachala to what state this leaves Wakanda in is very vulnerable.

And that makes for a great way to actually begin a story because you have all of these other international people that are coming in that want to have influence over what Wakanda does with its resources. And with that we begin something that's kind of incredible. Can I say something about the royal family of Wakanda real quick? What's up, man?

They some Kennedys, man. I was thinking the same exact thing. Okay, guys, guys, come on. Guys, guys. They some Kennedys. So, they got it bad. Okay, so let's just go through the rural family of Wakandu real quick. Okay?

The king, dead. His brother, dead. Killed by the king. Yeah. The new king, God rest Chad with Bowman, dead. Okay. Mysterious Elmint. The queen killed by Namor.

The other king. Kilmonger. The son of the nephew of the original king dead. Everyone. Do you? Of course, Shuri didn't want to take it off. Shuri is like, yo, I'm going to Haiti, man. Some nice beaches down there.

Chill with my nephew for a little bit. bit, they are really this, the only... Is that why she was just like, hey, yo, I'm gonna take, spoiler alert, I'm gonna take me and my son. Like, even to Chau was like, hey, yo, like, get my kid away from this.

The only family that I question, that even comes close, is Thor's family. That's just all drama in Thor's family. No, they're dead too. His dad, his mom, his sister. It's a dangerous profession. They did it too.

The brother died like four or five times. Listen, being in charge is dangerous. People come at you. People want your head top. You know what I'm saying? Like, you got to be like, ah, maybe the same what I want. And by the way, Wakanda also is the king. They're a good nation for like being nice to people who then killed their leaders.

like it's cool that she was able to you know she I guess she got permission from her mom to make peace with Namor but when I see them flying back in together after he killed your mother I'm like yo you're gonna let that slide my bee

wait wait wait wait so you have to think this is after wait do you think shirry learned the wrong lessons after becoming friends with the winter soldier she's like I did it once before so like it really ain't nothing. No. I mean, what damage did Bucky do?

No, but Chadwood, but Chachala did that with Zimo. At the end of Civil War, Tachala sees Zemo right there, has opportunity, kill Zemo, you killed my dad. No. Well, remember, it's almost bar for bar. In Civil War, Tichala's like, vengeance has consumed you. It's consuming me.

It's consuming them. And then when she has Namor, when a chri has Namor by the throat with the spear, she's like, vengeance is consuming us, right? It's almost a direct parallel in that moment. Wait, can I be real, though? You know, that family might be a little bit luckier if they were just like, actually, I'm going to let vengeance consume me.

We're going to kill Zemo just so the whole world knows. You come for us. We're going to kill you, muffing. People keep trying Wakanda, man. People like people keep trying Wakanda, man. Before you know it, Kim Jong-il. going to start. I'm just saying.

Oh, right. Like, people keep trying Wakanda, man. There's no reason. You know what I'm saying? Like, why would those French guys think that they could go steal vibranium? Have they not been watching the news?

That's so stupid to them. They got packed up so easily. Have they not been watching the news? They're not tapped in. They're not tapped in. They don't even got a superhero or nothing. They just go with solo. It's right.

I thought that they would have sent like Bathtrock or something just to get his ass kicked, which have been great. Sit in the merchant marine. You don't the mean to go in there and try to go up against them. It was so stupid. Anyway, I have a real quick question for you, Van, because you'll be the best to answer this.

Do you feel like this is 100% Shurrie's movie? Because this almost felt like a two-hander between the first half of the movie feels like Angela Bassett's Queen Ramundo, like she's like the lead. And then after she passes away,

It is like Shuri's movie. Say it felt like a two-hander, huh? Okay. Come on, dude. Are you serious? What? Are you serious? Look how uncomfortable Arjuna is.

He's just shaking his head at me. Sorry. I can't. I can't. I'm a child. I'm like cocaine in succession. Yeah, I'm a child. He said it felt like a two-hander.

Okay. All right. Goodness gracious. So, yes, Charles. It didn't. fact feel like a two-handed. At the beginning of the movie... I can't take you seriously.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. I'm being serious. We just talked about it. I'm being serious. I'm being serious. Yeah. So, Queen Ramon, I felt like that at the beginning of the film, it was her movie.

Because she was, to me, the last remaining stalwart of, of Waukandan royal tradition. I'm not talking about the rest of the council. I'm talking about the ruling family of Wakanda since their ancestors at first taking the

heart-shaped herb back in the day. She was the one reminding Shuri of the morning ritual. She was the one reminding the world of who Wakanda was. She was the one that had

to discipline, albeit really harshly, O'Coye. And her pain and her loss was centering the movie for a long time before the movie gets sort of handed off to Shuri. Because Shory is still in a lot of ways in like she's being, you know, petulant to a degree. Not petulant. I don't want to say it that way. But she's grieving. She's angry. She's grieving and she's so hurt. And they're still she hasn't taken on fully the mantle of protector of Wakanda.

That hasn't happened to much later. It's really happened to the end of the movie. This movie really is about making sure the protector of Wakanda because that's what she had to grow into being. Because at first it was just all about herself. It was just really about herself. And it's exactly the same, to Jomi's point, it's the same art that Tachalo went on

from just wanting vengeance for the death of his father. to understanding what was better for the overall ecosystem of the world and this country. So at the beginning, I think the Queen's character is closer to what Chala was and what his father was, then, you know, what Shuri was. And that's probably why the movie handed off its narrative to her a little bit. I think that's a pretty good. The thing that, the reason I asked that is because I actually think Angela Bassett sets the tone for this entire movie and sets the tone for the rest of the cast in terms of

her performance, because I think even though this is obviously about a fictional African country, I do think that there is kind of this shared emotion of, you know, this is an African-American director making this movie about the history of black people in America is that a lot of black men die young and the matriarchs and the black women that are left behind and how they deal with the, how they deal with the world that tries to take advantage of them, how they stay strong, how they keep their family together. And I think what Angela Bassett does, Letitia, Michaela Cole,

all of these performances, I was like, it was so smart to make this an ensemble cast before it becomes Shurrie's movie because I was so invested and I'm like, oh, this is actually how it feels when the center of a family dies.

And that was actually a really smart thing to do narratively. To Charles's point, I think honestly, it's a three-hander, right? I think it starts with Angela and then it goes to

Namor, right? Because we have the scene in the throne room where she chews out of Koea, fair or not, right? And then we're in Soto Khan and Namor just takes over the film, right? He talks to Shuri about where he got his name,

where it happened to his mother, shows her the city, and you're just like, okay, like we literally spells out his motivations. Like we get why he's doing this, where he's from, the whole nine yards.

And it's so magnetic and it's so powerful. And then once she takes the heart-shaped herb, we're back at Shuri. And she is the person who we follow for the rest of the film. I think it's like a Angela Bassett, Namor, Shuri role throughout the film that honestly keeps the film

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She goes to MIT, which is the equivalent of a Wakandan village school. That was very funny. Now, something, did she sell that to that? that guy for $800,000? That was $800. $800 and then it went up to $1,000. Oh, okay. I don't know.

For some reason, I was like, you can't Vimbo no million dollars. I don't know why I heard it like that both times. She goes like, yeah, that'll be $800,000. Oh, I was like, oh, shit, really, really bawling. Rewee Williams. Charles, your thoughts? I am excited for Review Williams and Ironheart. no you're not.

In theory, and this is nothing against the actors. This is nothing, no, this is nothing against the actors at all. To Jomey's point, if this is Queen Ramunda's movie, then Namor's movie,

and then Shuri's movie, I feel like Ironheart is like wedged in there in a way where, like, it makes sense to the plot. Like, I get why she's there, but she does not get enough time to be fleshed out. So I'm just like,

every single time, I'm like Ironheart's back there. I'm just like, oh, okay, yeah. There's a Disney Plus show. We got to do this. Which, to be clear, I put Ironheart in there. I put Everett Ross in there. I put DeFontaine in there.

I'm just like, there is too much movie in this movie. Can we get back to Namor? Can we get back to Sherry? This is, and once again, all of those actors did an amazing job. It was just towards the middle of the movie. I'm like, yo, can we, can we? So, Charles, okay, because you make a good point. question for you, at what

age did you realize that you hated black women? Whoa, whoa, whoa. Out of pocket. Take that out. Steve. What the for? We're going to have to take this out. We're going to take this out because I'm about to blow up your fucking spot.

I was trying to be nice about meeting me, Williams. And you told me verbatim on another podcast before we started recording, you was like, yo, if you're going to try to be the funny character, It was cool. It was cool. It wasn't great. Come on, bro. I'm just joking. It was, she was cool. How about this?

Am I excited about Ironheart the show? Yeah. Yeah, of course I am. This movie had a lot going on. There's a lot we wanted to see. So this happens, though. Sometimes they drop characters in these movies and it's fine, but it doesn't work like all the way. It's not like a seamless, you know, they get it right. dropping Black Panther

and Civil War obviously kind of made Civil War. That was great. Oh, the best part of Civil War. If you take Black Panther

out of Civil War, it probably drops a whole grade. Civil War is a great movie, though. Civil War, to me, is like a,

like, underrated for some reason. I mean, people don't talk about it. It's perfectly rated for being honest. All right. Enough of that.

Whatever. We're not, we're not doing this here. All right. Here's the thing, this isn't saying I hated Ironite at all. This was just,

in a movie where it's like, to your point, like, Namor is so electric. We are trying to not only get out of our mind the shirry from the first film, who's like very comedic in a sidekick role, and they are trying to make her into Wakanda's protector and into like a leading woman. You're just like to make somebody else

in the middle of this movie be like, all right, you need to fall in love with Ironheart in about 15 to 20 minutes. That's a tough order. And I feel like that this introduction would hopefully have been akin to like a Peter Parker in Civil War

where you have the young, plucky, brilliant. That's different though. I know, but it is, but it's like, that's what we kind of have. That's a spying way different. I understand. You know what I mean?

I understand. But like, for somebody that we have a small window of time to get introduced to that would come along in this movie, it's not really needed with what this movie needs to do. I hear what Steve is saying and I'm with you Van The thing with Ironheart is

She's not Spider-Man So she's not obviously she's not You can be like You can point oh that's Peter Parker We know Spider-Man's whole deal Like that was why the movie shows up And he's already Spider-Man like You know we have to like kind of get

What Rie Reward is what Ironheart is all about Right so the movie has to take a little bit more time doing that You can't just be like Oh that's Ironheart And people be like yeah we know her We've seen how many movies movies, how many comic books? I don't know, da-da-da.

This movie has to do some explaining, which Civil War would never have to do because it's Peter Parker. We know who Peter Parker is. Right. But at the very least, we need to be endeared to R-Re by the end of this. She's not endearing.

No, no, of course. No, she, she, she, Dominic Thorne is a very talented actress, and she had some really funny parts. It's just, with everything going on, you know. Yeah. You know what I mean.

You can ask this, do you think the Robert Downey Jr. of it all also makes her job as an actor so difficult because... Probably. Because Iron Man is like... I do. I agree. Iron Man is the MCU and her performance no matter... And this is unfair.

But in my mind, I'm like, oh, you're supposed to be the next iron person. And I'm just like, oh. I don't know about all that. I don't know. No, this is what I'm saying. I'm saying that in this situation, this is one of the parts of the movie, and we're going to talk about this a little bit later, where to

Chala was most missed. Because if that is Tachala, King of Wakanda, right, Chadwick Bowesman, who's probably a part of that interplay, because Spider-Man, even Tom Holland, Spider-Man got a boost by the fact that he was kind of a foil

to this fully formed, like all of those scenes of Pete at the beginning where Pete is like, he's awkward, I know I am, he's dumpster diving. He gets initiated into a grand world by the king swinging whatever of that world, the number one guy who needs him.

In this situation, you know, it's another thing to where Shuri handles this movie just fine, right? Like, but it's not the same dynamic when she comes there, you know what I mean? As if, as if

the Chala comes there, right? And you need that sort of dynamic to help round out Irons Hart's character and give it maybe a little bit more gravitas or a little bit more of that they were kind of looking for the same thing and they kind of they got there but not quite yeah because shirri can't sure can't be her o-g like sure really shirri can't be her tony stark because they're both the same age to your point

then you do need tachala so she can look up and be like i've seen you on tv you're the black panther but with sure it's just like these are both characters that are supposed to be teenagers or at least early 20s talking to each other and it doesn't it doesn't it's not the same dynamic that you need right I agree right here's the thing right and I should be very clear and I agree with everything everybody's saying everybody's making great points and I hear you chalk one up for the Young Avengers agenda baby it's coming I'm gonna be honest I don't want to see the Young Avengers anymore because I'm going to be honest I don't want to see the Young Avengers anymore because I'm Because they really ain't, they ain't put enough numbers on the board. Definitely doing the Young Avengers. No, they're doing it. I'm just saying like they got to start, the Young Avengers got to start putting numbers up on the board because they look. What you mean? They got, they got.

Ironheart ain't doing it for you? So, hold on. So with Black Widow being the Young Avengers? No, she wouldn't, right? No, she's in the Thunderbol. She's in the Thunderbol. So it would be stature, who we get in Quantummania. It would be Ironheart.

It would be Hawkeye. it would be Patriot. Yeah. Maybe, Patriot. Because it might be America Chavez. It might be able to have. America Chavez,

Billy, from Wanda Vision. All right. Don't Wanda Vision kids ain't do shit. Like, we don't even know about it.

Like, come on. What did they do? They were in, they were in multiverse of madness. We're like, don't hurt us, Mommy.

They ain't do shit. Like, Jesus Christ. They could sing the villains to death. That's what they could do. The ice cream song. You guys are so.

Wow. fucking off your ass. It was bad. Come on, let's be honest. Are you looking forward to Iron Heart show? I just want to let me.

I want, no, I want you to answer this because back at, back at the Disney, uh, at D-23 when we saw, you know,

some sneak footage, you was like, I'm a fucking snitch. Like, you just said, like, you just said it on the whole podcast. Like,

like, women, you know, right, you know what I'm saying? Like, so, no,

when I first saw the trailer, I was like, this just looks, this, this looks a little free form. But like, respect Cloak and Dagger. How dare you?

Respect Cloak and Dagger. Hey, cloak and dagger is good, though. Coking Dagger was. That's a respect. Cloak and Dagger was okay. Now you're going to try to tell me Runaways was good. Come on.

I never saw it. But, so, no, I think that seeing her character and getting a little bit more connected to it, I think I am excited for her show. And I hope that her show is great. I, I remember, Charlemagne used to talk about, Dad, do you read Ironheart?

There's a new Iron Man characters, a black girl named Rie Williams. And you know what happens to me sometimes? Like, I made up my mind on the Hulk. It's not Amadeus Cho. It's Bruce Banner. I made up my mind on Iron Man. Like, I'm old.

Then older, and, you know, Charlemagne was more open to that stuff. I'm old. I made up my mind on these characters. So it sometimes takes a lot for me to, and you know, and they do this, like, they do this. And if it's a new character, like Moon Girl or somebody like that, I'm like, oh, my God, it's great.

Little Black Genius girl. But if it's like a new Iron Man, sometimes it's tough for me. Damn, you're a Miles Morales hater. You don't like- That's different. Wow, you said Spider-Vus is a spider-vv versus trash. What's wrong? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, then. Miles Morales is an older character than all of these other characters that I just mentioned.

He's like, Miles Morales was older. And so that was when I was still like y'all age is that Miles Morales came around. He's an older character than all of these characters. All right. So fuck you. I'm just hearing that you're a gatekeeper. You're a gatekeeper, bro. Takashi 6-9 Charles.

Treyway Charles is your new name. Stray well, oh, don't put that on me. Treyway Charles, a snitch. Treyway Chuck. It's a snitch. DeAngelo Hustle right here, bro. DeAngelo Hustle. I'm not giving you my motherfucker.

Let's get to it. Not more. No more. Gugon. Gond. Krikan. The feather serpent's guard. Top two and I'm not too.

Namor, Chuck, go. I, the MCU, it's not, I'm not the first person to say this, has always had a villain problem. But let me just say, coogler knows how to write a villain between Kilmonger, like Namor makes Kilmonger look like

fucking, you know, Joe Blow off the street. This performance by Huerta is so superb. He makes Namor someone that, you can honestly root for, you feel for. When he's going on about like all the fucked up shit, the Wakandans did, my man was making points, bro. And if we, we got a quarter flip. And a lot of people are going to be mad at me because I've got some DMs,

be like, we don't know what quarter flipping is. Quarter flipping comes from the episode we did on Hawkeye where Kate Bishop learns how to flip a quarter, hit the VCR. It is our big, like, I'll be sure about this segment. And I got to be real. Namor was giving people the business. He was flooding fucking Wakanda. You don't want to fuck with him.

He's been alive for like $6,000, $8,000. I don't know how many years. I don't know if he's getting packed up by Sherry like that at the end. I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it can happen like that. They did my man so, he went out so sad. It's a couple things, right?

We have to talk about, you know, they weaken him. You guys remember, right? They say, hey, the fusion is how he gets, he gets straight from the water Fing infusion Fair point We evaporate on the water

out of him He gets weaker Right so he was I had a disadvantage I don't know I understand that But sure Let's be clear

I understand that But sure She's doing her things Black Panther Don't get me wrong But this is also Like her first day On the job

So I'm saying Like first day on the job Black Panther Verses like Slightly Weak NAMOR At the end of the fight I was like

Give Namor a couple more like, Bop, Bop, you know what I'm saying? Like, he should still lose. He stabbed her through a rock. Yeah, I don't know what you want from him at that point.

Like, he, like, he was doing this thing. She was doing her thing. Like, you know. But my man, here's the thing. In the beginning of the movie, Namor was so powerful. I was just like,

this end of fight is leaving a little bit to be desired. He was spinning a helicopter in midair. That was a pretty. No, no, no, no. The nigger caught several.

in the movie. He caught several. Let's not say he caught one helicopter. I just won't let you know that's Superman shit. Yeah, no. Here's the thing. Steve Rogers, Steve Rogers had curled of helicopter.

He had trouble just curling a helicopter. Like, come on, bro. I'm talking about Steve Rogers grabbed the helicopter. That's, by the way, O.D. should have never happened. That's cap. But flying in the air and grabbing an aircraft out of the air and then throwing that that is Superman type stuff.

Like he was the man. I was watching the movie. I'm like, yo, Namor is powerful when the comic books, don't get me wrong. But I'm like, yo, he's unbeatable. That's crazy. I was really looking like he's unbeatable. I guess to Joe, Jomi makes a, Jomi's point. No, Jomi's point is evaporating.

It's the only point, though. I mean, they... He's dehydrated. Yeah. They weakened him to. That's why she couldn't let him get to the water. And when she had the explosion, it was more evaporation, evaporated them right out of there. No, Jones is right.

I'm just saying I would have liked Namor to get a few more licks in for the fight to feel a little bit more real. I just wanted to bring it to the table. But I thought Namor was perfect casting. Honestly, I rarely say this. I would watch a Namor. movie so quickly, just so, so quickly. Jemey, would you watch a Namor movie? Honestly, I hate villain movies.

I would watch this dude do anything. I'd watch him bake a cake. I would watch him, you know, paint walls. I'd watch him watch grass. Querta was, you know, I can't say it enough. Like, the best part of the movie. Every time he was on stream, it was electric. He did.

He was talking to Queen Rumanda a little crazy for me personally. He was all up in her kitchen when he was on the beach. Like that was like, wow, you are. You not go disrespect, you know, my queen like that. Just not how it's going to go down. You know, but ultimately, everything works. Like, I'm honestly, I honestly, I'm shocked, even like, seen here talking to you guys about it. In the theater, seeing it the second time, I couldn't believe it.

Like, we talk about, you know, you know, Charles mentioned the MCU is the villain problem and all these things. And we get there, we're like, okay, this villain was cool. You know, what was the last time? Like, Hela was cool. You know, we all liked Vulture from Spider-Man Homecoming. Vulture was great. Yeah, like, cool, yeah.

We got, like, some cool villains, but I honestly can't remember a performance for somebody, like a newcomer like this that has blown me away in a long time. And frankly, if I'm not a honest, with you and correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe I'm tripping. But I can't remember enjoying a villain performance this much since 2008 to Dark Night's Joker. Like maybe I'm tripping.

Oh, Joan Skittle. Okay. So let's think about it because I, I, I already, I'm already on record about Michael Shannon Azad and Manistiel. I thought that was great. Another, uh, fucking amazing villain performance is, of course, Jesse Eisenberg. and as Lex Luther and it's a joke

it's a joke did you see Steve? Did you see Steve? I like complete my I went like a whole 45 degrees like my head I was like Steve pulled him like that's what Bozeman does when I say outside

Boseman goes He's like, oh really Let's go dad Steve Steve was like Eisenberg You better not be full You better not be full of shit right now Are you talking about

if Mark Zuckerberg Like was Superman's enemy with Mama's jar of piss? Yeah. Oh, no. Let's not disrespect Bain in Dark Night Rises. It's Graveller. Graveill.

It's Graveil. What, Jomey, you're not fucking with Bain? He just got bars. I think he went out a little, he went on way sad. He just got shot by Catwoman. We're talking about the performance, man. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so let's let's do this real quick. Let's play this out. Okay. So let's look at all the movies. So, We're talking about Bain. We're talking about Joker,

which is the best. Joker's the best. Magneto from the new Axeman movies? Fastbender? Fastbender. Fastbender's in his back. He beat his back.

I don't think he's joker level, but he's being his back. No, but Fastbender's in the conversation. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Is Ian McClellan in the conversation? I'd say, absolutely he's in the conversation. Yeah.

Okay, cool. Let's continue to go. Think about so that a Thanos is obviously Thanos is there Oh do we put a sneak in there? No, I wouldn't I wouldn't Thanos is there as a character

As a performance It's a CGI performance It's a it's whatever so it's kind of He got bars though He got bars he got bars Thanos is there Who are we missing Green Goblin

Green Goblin? Green Goblin Yeah yeah Especially especially coming back in Green Goblin's performance Especially coming back in In nowhere home Yeah.

So what else? Arjuna, if you think of anything, chime in, because we're going to miss some people going to act crazy about it. This is a big performance, but Michelle Pfeiffer. Oh, yeah. Right, well, then we got to go Jack Nicholson if we're going all the way back there. I didn't know how far we're going, bro. He said since Joker.

Oh, since Joker, okay. Since 2008. Since the last year's Joker. Okay. Since the Joker, 2008. We've got to go all the way back to Caesar Romero. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Gene Hackman is Lex Lutton. Gene Hartman is Lex Lutter. You know what I'm saying? We're forgetting one. Guys, I can't believe we didn't. Oh my gosh. Jared Lotto's Joker. Oh my gosh.

Can't believe what you got through. I like it. Fuck out of you. Y'all, are you serious? I really do. I like Jared Liddell as a Joker. You'd say that before Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn. That's insane.

I don't think that's a villain. I don't think that's a villain. I don't think that's a villain. That's, Margo Robbie's caught Harley Quinn to me. is just like Loki. The character doesn't work. The character works so much better as a hero than they do as a villain.

It's kind of, it takes away with villain points. Is there anyone we're leaving out when we're thinking about the- Oh, shit. How do we forget? What? The greatest villain of all time. The man in black.

Black Adam. Let's go! We got to move on because y'all stop taking it serious. We got to see, this is what fucks up the podcast. We had, we had a real conversation going. could get the audience engaged and ask them questions about, you know what I mean? And like, we had a real conversation. I want the audience to think about more villain performances because there are movies.

Don't miss out on the other Joker, though. What? Talk about the guy from fucking the Batman. No, I know what you're talking about. I know what you're talking about. No, which would call it? Valkyne Phoenix. Yeah, Waukeen Phoenix.

Okay, no, no, I don't rate that. I don't rate it. Make America Great Again, Joker? I'm not like, I'm not the nod. To get back. to the point, it's a fantastic performance. Like I said, he holds his own in the movie,

and it's remarkable. And the fact that, like, this is like the first time a lot of people seem like, I watched Narcos. You know, I was on a season. I was like, oh, that's the dude from Marcos. I didn't even put it together. But the fact that a lot of people

will see him for the first time here, it does not get any better than this, like, as a coming out party. Like, I can't wait to watch his next movie. I can't wait to see what he does. He is a fantastic actor. Electric. Oh, my God.

Wait, we have to ask the real question. Oh, well, Kilmonger. Oh, yeah. We said Kilmonger. Oh, we did? Okay, Killmonger. Okay. So while we're on Namor corner,

we don't know who Mr. Fantastic is. We don't, but let's just say it is Jim Helpert from the office. I got one more villain. I have to say it. I'm going to leave it alone. Man, Vincent Dinoffrio is Kingpin in the Daredevil original series. Yeah.

Shut up, Charles. Whatever. Charles, you make your point. But you guys, I want, we want to do, we want to do a poll as far as the villains are concerned. Tell us who you think if Namor is up there and give us a rundown of the villains. Go ahead. Have we done the villains draft yet? We have, haven't.

We have. I think you guys did. I don't think me and Steve were cool enough back then to join in. Oh, right. Let's not go. Yeah, y'all niggas will be off the next one. You keep talking that shit. I'm just joking.

I'm just joking. I'm just playing. Charles, go ahead. So my question is, what the fuck the Fantastic we're going to do against Namar? Like, what's Mr. Fantastic really going to do against this version?

Well, Shoot Storm is going to be folding like crazy. Yeah, she's going to be going to be, oh, daddy. But Mr. Fantastic we got in multiverse of madness, I'm like, yo, he's not getting no licks in on Namor, bro. Like, none whatsoever. He's the smartest man in the universe, so

there's something to be said for that. If Shuri could figure out. Don't be re-readly. Don't get me wrong. Shuri is probably the second smartest person in the world. So I don't mean to take away from him. Oh, wait. What do you have?

Are you saying that a white man is smarter than our black princess? He's smarter than her. Charles, come on. He's smarter than her. Wow. I'm reading the hiccook what you're talking about. You know what? God. That's how I know, y'all.

Put me on the daily wire. He's smarter than her. I care what you're saying. He's the smartest man in the world. It's the only thing other than that, he stretches. Y'all won't let black people have nothing? He's smarter than her. Wait, he's smart.

Wait, so then let's do a ranking. He's Tony Stark smarter than Cherry. No, no. We know that. Is Bruce Banner? Nigger, no. No. Like, she's already proved.

Then why is Mr. Fantastic? Do you know how Ree Richards was introduced in the thing? Reed Richards. the smartest man in the world. Ries Richie Richards is a new era. This is a new era. Charles is the second smartest. Charles got to be trolling because I'm trolling guys.

Come on. I'm being serious. Like, I mean, we're being honest. There's no way they can make him Mr. Fantas is the second smartest because then he's just the dude who stretches. Stretches, yeah. He's the smartest guy. Yeah.

As far as Namor is concerned, the scene when he takes her to Talcun, right, where he takes her down there. did that scene work for you guys as exploring and explaining the stakes that he has as the ruler of his city? Did the wonderment of that scene work? Because I've heard, I thought it was one of the most beautiful scenes in the MCU. It really for some reason was affecting to me, right? But like for you guys, did him showing everything that he has to protect,

therefore sort of explain or excuse the viciousness and wissy protected it. So I'll be honest. If I'm going to really nitpick this movie, I think the one thing it didn't do a good job of is that the first Black Panther movie builds the lore of Wakanda.

We know who these people are. You need so many of them. You know why it's important. You know why they don't want to give vibranium to the rest of the world. I think because this movie is so, packed with so many different things. I liked when he took her to Tala Khan.

When he took Shari, my issue was we didn't really get to live with the people in Tala Khan. We didn't really get to, like, really see what their lives are like. They were just like, here's the Tala Khan. All right, now back to the thing. I feel like you could have spent, you know, another 15, 20 minutes. Just being like, this is why I want to protect this place.

This is how we live 6,000 years later. If I'm going to be honest, I couldn't really tell the difference between like when they get their powers and then they're like ain't those 6,000 years what you're talking about? It's 500 years.

I don't know. I'm using 500. I don't know. Like there should be like they, I'm going to be honest. They make black people look so. Like they're just like, yeah, look at how much we built in O'Con.

This futuristic is out. Like, it's all kind of. I'm just like, just kind of just, y'all still wearing the same shit y'all was wearing when y'all. Don, they live under the water. Oh my God. Charles.

So? There was going to be some advances. Yeah, what are they supposed to do? They're supposed to have... Give them to the Mexican. They couldn't have it. Just as advanced to society, I would like to say it. They got bombs.

But I didn't see that shit. We took the... It's like when white people come to New York and you're traveling on a bus. You're like, all right, this is that. This is that. We're on to the next borough. I want to see some more. No, man.

They live a simple lifestyle. They got bombs. They got... ways to breathe water. Jomey don't say they live a simple lifestyle. They ride around on the backs of Wales. That's dope, by the way. That's awesome.

Wakanda, if there was just like, they showed us a Wakanda and they was living quote a simple lifestyle. Black people were like, hell now, fuck all this shit. So I'm just saying they could have shown us a little bit more. It's been 500. They live under the water. What does that mean? They're not going to have the finest of close.

They can't have the future underwater. I think they're pretty futuristic down there if you ask me. Well, if we're being like actual, if you're actually thinking about it, when you go underwater, you're not really, there's no other trends, there's nothing else to follow,

right? They've buried themselves under the water. They're just going to keep doing the same thing because there's no one, there's nowhere else to teach them to do what other things. Think about it. So you're saying they're behind

on fashion trends because they don't get to see anything. They would have their own fashion trends though. They would, they would develop their own, there would be different fashion designers underwater who would be like, eh,

we don't want to look like we did 500 years ago. Can we get some nice? tech fleece down here? Like, can we just get some more advanced shit? Again, they would have to go up to the surface to know that, which they don't do. They're not really the biggest fans of the surface world anyway. They're not really the big fans of the surface. They go keep pushing.

Y'all are nitpicking me when literally they talk underwater. So I don't know what you do. So they change Namor. Okay, they changed Namor. So let's talk about some of the changes. Number one. They changed the reason why he is called Namor. they change obviously the fact that this is now Talakhan and not Atlantis.

They change his origin. The character himself still got the winged feet, which was very important, which I didn't know whether or not they would do that or not. Well, I knew I had seen it in the trailer, but before that seems like one thing is that's going to go. They're going to take the way the quirkiness of the character, which is the fact that he's got wing feet.

The changes that they made to Namor in the movie, the changes they made the fact that we're not in Atlantis here. Obviously, you have Jason Momoa's Aquaman in D.C. So there's maybe we don't want to do Atlantis. Maybe Atlantis is played out. Whatever. Charles, what do you think about the changes to the character of really the first mutant and someone who's got such a long history in Marvel?

I liked a lot of the changes because I think what it did is it gave Namor a specificity, gave Talekhan a specificity of like you could feel them in the same way. It's like, this is obviously a fake underwater world in the same way that Wakanda is fake. But by giving it a region to exist, a lot of times when you see Atlantis in movies, it's like, oh, no, it's just all white people down there. And I'm like, guys, like, why every time we go to another place is just white people? And like, by making it somewhere that is at least connected to our world, I think you start to see how the culture would develop.

I would have liked it to develop more, but that's a conversation for another day. but I do think it made me invest in Namor way more than I ever have been because if I'm going to be honest, y'all are going to yell at me. Namor is not the coolest character in the comics all the time. He's cool as shit.

Not all the time. He's gotten cooler recently. Well, no, he's gotten cool. But Namor is always one of those bastards that when he shows up, he's showing up to like, he's, he's, he's, he only has, his only real loyalty is to Atlantis.

So you can never quite trust him. You know what I mean? Like, Namor has always been somebody that was super cool to me. Like, what don't you like about Namor? I think sometimes, I think very recently, when I say, like, probably in the last, like, 15, 20 years is when, to me, Namor started becoming a character that was like, he would join the Illuminati. He is actually a king. He's on the same level as Black Bolt, Black Panther, Professor X.

Like, he is a leader of a people where it's like, sometimes. when I was a kid reading them I was like, oh, he just swims fast. And what I think they've done in comics, comic books recently and what they do in this movie so expertly, it's like, no, Atlantis, Tala Khan is an actual kingdom. That means he is a world power.

That's why he's like fighting Black Panther all the time and he hates him. That's what I mean by, like, he's not always the coolest in the comics. It's not until recently where you're like, no, he's a king. He should have all of the responsibilities and the weight of mobility.

You know what I mean? Hickman did a lot of, a lot for for name war and a lot of heavy lifting bendis did a lot of heavy lifting where when namur shows up in like i've always like napalicks he's got some shit up yeah yeah um what everybody else how did you guys feel about to change his name most character thought it was cool you know i i said this when we got out of the theater i didn't know how they would do like the green tank the green shorts and the wing feet you know like i didn't know how serious they'd be about that and it's all there you know this is like i'm not going to say the first time

but this is one of the rare times where they've taken a character from the comics just said cut and paste the way they look you know normally you know back in the day the X-Men couldn't get their original suits they would like tone down some people's uh looks but we got Namor just since Damore's been in the comics for how many years so it's awesome to see uh big family it's been in the comics for he's one of the first three characters in Marvel history yeah so that that so I'm saying to your point Jomey is the history of Namor is very long, very rich and very deep. Maybe it doesn't like, it doesn't resonate with people enough

because he's not one of the biggest characters, but Namor has been who he is for a long time. So to change him up, so it's a big deal, right, Joe? Yeah, big deal. I mean, the name was cool. That was something that I didn't expect going in. And so for them to be like, it's like, what, a child without love?

Child without love, yeah. I actually laughed. I was like, come on. God, you didn't like that, that was cool. That was cool. You know what I was like? We don't got to do that. It's interesting because, like, it's pronounced in amor.

But, you know, everybody's like, yo, what's like, hey, ma'amore? How are you doing my brother? And it's like, okay, well, all right, what are we doing? Like, how are we actually going to say it? You don't like the name, Charles? You don't like, it was a little too cute by half. It's like, we don't got to give a reason that he's name more.

He's just, like, he could just be name. We don't got to do that thing. It's like, actually his name. I was like, yeah, okay. It didn't ruin it. I was just like, I chuckled. I was like, okay. No, I thought it was great.

I think that his origin and his early days in the Mesoamerican era about knowing how the origins of his people began and the history of bringing his mother back to be buried against the conquistadors and all of that. It was an incredibly moving and poignant little scene that I genuinely was intrigued by. And then that performance was just absolutely great. The attempted diplomacy that he makes with Shuri is actually like probably. one of my favorite turns of being a quote-unquote villain in the MCU that we have, where it's not, it's the, we're not so different you and I type of villain turn. But also it's the fact that like he has understood that what it means to be a leader for a very long time, contrasted with Shuri who may or may not even want to be one and has been surrounded

by leaders all of her life and now has to make these very complicated decisions just on behalf of an entire country. just to make sort of peace. He was incredible and by far the best part of this movie. And I couldn't agree more that it definitely worked for me. Any change that they made were smart ones. You know what we didn't see Namor do? And really, kind of sometimes what we don't see even Aquaman do that much is talking to animals.

I'm serious. Okay. Well, hold on. It's fair where they're like, how do they get control of the whales? Like, how do they? So look, I think there's something that these filmmakers and both these movies think it's kind of hokey about talking to animals because when I was a kid, that was the coolest shit ever.

The Super Friends version Aquaman, like, he wasn't like the guy who was up on the surface brawling with people and jumping, throwing the trident and stuff like that. This motherfucker was talking to dolphins. Let's keep a gift. This is what he was doing. This was his thing. It was like everybody does something and all of a sudden Aquaman come through.

What does Aquaman bring it to the table? Riding some dolphins. He got 20,000 dolphins with him. And they're about to mess up the Lex Luthor's plans. I'll tell you what. There's not a lot of things that will be more scary to me than being underwater

and seeing like four orcas come through. And that's like 20 people. That's tough. That's tough. But see, that's my thing is they got the, like, that boat is done. Like, they got, like, so that they're using the sonic attack on them, right? Yeah. The sonic attack is not going to affect some of the sea life.

You know, you, like, put the sea life over there. I mean, she just swam right up and broke it. I know. I know she swam right up and broke it. But what I'm saying is, think about how much more difficult that would have been a fight if they had, like, I don't know, 10. 10, 12 blue whales with them. Oh, you know what I'm saying?

It's like, now you got, I guess those are battles. Can mess with the ship. I don't know what the blue whales is going to do like on top of the boat, but I understand what you're saying. Just, I mean, the blue whales can jump up and just splash water. Boom, boom, boom. Or just throw their bodies on the boat. Yeah.

It's a very high boat. Yeah, they don't mean. Like, boom, boom, blue whale, blue whale, blue well, blue well. You know what I'm saying? What are you going to do? How are you going to sustain? 20 blue rail attacks. Talk to animals,

bro. That's part of these guys. There's like how many Dr. Doolittle movies you can watch. I don't care. I want to see these guys talk to animals. They think it's because people,

because of characters like the deep, okay, and they make a fun. Yeah, the deep talks of fish. Yeah, there's a lot more than talk. Oh,

we forgot a villain. We forgot Homelander. I knew that was somebody we were forgetting. Oh, yeah. We forget. We forgot Homelander.

I'm like, there's a villain out there that people are going to be like, why didn't you guys mention this guy? All you do is stand Omni Man Homelander. We forgot those guys. This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Cole has a return, and this time they're taking on Texas.

As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch willing to protected secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning, and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market.

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Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Wakanda fights back. You guys, big cameo in the movie. A couple of big cameos are going to get to two of them. We're still rocking and rolling here. We're still going. Oh, yeah.

going strong. Shuri goes to the ancestral plane. She doesn't see her dad. She doesn't see her mom. She obviously doesn't see Tchala, which I thought maybe for one second, we might get some sort of digital recreation. I was so worried that that was going to be the case.

No, I didn't think we get a digital recreation. I thought we get like a voiceover. Like a speecher or something like that. Again, I'm sure at one point he calls out to Shuri, you know, in Black Path or whatever. And so, like, we might just get like a replay of that. and then like it'll cut. But no, he didn't get any of that.

Instead, we got Michael B. Jordan as Eric Kilmonger, as Jodaka coming back. Level of surprise Chuck Wagon. Oh, I mean, I wasn't surprised because I was just like there, because there is such a Chadwick-sized hole in this movie, I was just like Kilmonger is going to have some type of role because I think we were all, or at least I was.

I was like, I wasn't sure Kilmonger was dead. And obviously he is now. But I think it made complete sense that, And it kind of sucked that the person that she sees in the ancestral plane is the dude who is responsible for fucking up so much of her life. But it works narratively in terms of how mad Shuri is. And I think it is also interesting, such a smart thing that they do in this film is sure he is someone who is so smart and believes in science to such a degree.

It's so funny that by the time she gives herself over to the ancestral plane, the one thing that she probably wants more than anything is to talk to Tichala, but instead, the universe is like, nope, the lesson you really need to learn is from Kilmonger himself. I love that part. It was a great twist on what we thought was going to happen. I genuinely was, as concerned as I was, that we would be getting some sort of, like,

Tichala recreation in some form of fashion, to know that, like, she was that upset, and he's fueling her and egging her on and like kind of making that part of her shine through for the rest of the movie. And like the rest of Wakanda is like, let's pull you back from this. Who did you see?

What did they tell you? That was kind of incredible. I was genuinely surprised. I think it was a great scene. Michael B. Jordan is like incredibly magnetic. So angry. Yeah, he's so very angry. He's great at being angry.

Your brother was too, your brother was too humble. Yeah. Your father killed his own brother. my father father Michael B. Jordan Ryan Cougarler always worked together

on these things so I figured like he'd have like an appearance at some point but it meant so much to the plot like to Charles's point

you get there and you're like okay he's gonna see Queen Rwanda like of course like that's how that goes nope it's Michael B. Jordan

he's like listen you want to smoke with Namor like I wanted to smoke with your brother that's why I'm here

instead of who you wanted to see right we both want the same things she's like no I'm nothing like he was like hey be the same honey little cuss be the same

I can't believe he sat through all that makeup though your brother your brother T'Chalo was too noble your father was a hypocrite kill his own brother they put the chest things back on them

that took that got to take way too long how was the fit in the ancestral plane that didn't put them on I think they only put enough to cover the thing yeah I don't think

too much knit in the cable knit. I looked at that. I was like, man, that dude wearing that big cable knit sweater so they don't have to put all those things back on his body. You just put a little bit on the chest. You might be good. It was good.

Yeah, it was good. Okay. So, I want to talk about Embaku real quick because Embaku was great in the whole movie. He seemed to like fall into the wise comic relief, which was not super easy to pull, to pull off, but he's had a hell of an arc

since the first Black Panther. What did you think about in Bocchio? Oh, I was actually surprised that he ended up being, because, like, I don't think we've talked about it enough, but the movie fucking hit you over the head with the first five minutes of

Tachalas passing. And then in the middle, they're like, oh, you thought you were sad? We're killing off Angela Bassett. Killing the queen. And I was like, I could not believe it. And the first time I was, when the first I was like, yo man, come on, bro. I was mad.

I was like, yeah, really? This is what we're doing. So by the time we get, and it speaks to how much Shuri has lost where I'm like, you know how many motherfuckers you have to loss? That Unbaku is the person that's giving you the advice and the emotional, is helping you finish your emotional arc.

It was a weird, it was like a weird thing narratively that just worked so well. Because it was just like funny Ambaka was the wisest person left. I loved it. He killed it. What's a Duke? Goulda. Gucan!

The feather serpent god. To give him is to risk eternal war. He was good, man. He was very, very great. I think his comedy worked more than Riri's. I liked the bit when he's,

he calls. calls a coyet bald-headed demon, which is like, which is crazy. Wild to tell, Caledora Malashe, that. Acoye better than me.

Like, I would have stabbed him. Like, that would have just been like, automatic fade, you feel me? I also like how good, when the Jabari get pissed,

they just, they just go right into it. Oh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Oh. It was like,

it was, he just munching on that carrot. Yeah, like, everything worked. And then, like, again, the performances in the movie were so good, because he can do all that

joking stuff, you know. But then, like, even he has an arc. Like, he's like, we should kill the fish man. This is, look at that. But, don't know. Easy, I would kill him. That's a lot of the chest one time. It's like, hey, guys, I don't know, man.

We should, we should think about the- Cracks that chest plate. Boy, but I, let's real quick on the attack on Wakanda, on Wakanda, they fucking washed Wakanda. Literally. Literally. Literally. Literally.

Like, literally. they fucking did they came through i felt so sorry for the wakondans very also very interesting narratively to this movie is almost about what the wakondas can't do okay because all we've seen in movies prior to this is what the wakondons can do if you break your spine the wakondas can put you back together if vision needs to remove the the mindstone well the wakondas can do it the wakondans could not save tachala at the beginning of the vision this movie with all their medical technology that they have, they couldn't do it. The Wakandans could also not defend themselves from Talakhan and Namor's forces.

They got fucked over. The movie did a great job in putting them in a vulnerable position and necessitating the return of the Black Panther because, you know, it seemed as if, to me, at points before, that it wasn't. I wasn't really sure that Wakanda even needed the Black Panther. because there was nothing you could do with them. You know what I mean? Like there was nothing you could do with them, but this movie makes you see that they actually need the Black Panther.

And Shory wasn't sure that they needed the Black Panther. But towards the end of the movie, they get their ass kicked by so, get their fucking aircraft thrown around by a mixture of Thor and the Hulk. It's basically a Hulk that could fly. Punishing it. He literally says it as strong as the Hulk. potentially as strong as the Hulk

You know And so yeah Embakou was great And I think You know again Great performances Throughout the film His journey from

We Should Kill the Fishman Said hey man Let's let's talk this thing through It's just a great It's a great arc And ultimately Winston Duke brings it as You know

Comic Relief And as a ear To lend to shir And just one Again One of the great parts Of why I like this film so much

because so well done. Things like that are just taking care of with such precision that I enjoyed it a lot. Midnight Angels. What? I'm asking if they weren't. Yeah, you know, the world could always use more Iron Man suits

and so as I say. Did you enjoy the Midnight Angels, Charles? Oh, the Midnight Angels. That's how much they just were not in this. Here's the thing. I'll be real. Charles. I was like, because you were saying Midnight Angels

and I've read the comic book from where they came and I completely forgot that that shit was in the movie like you got McCallicle in this fucking movie like for five seconds I'm like yo you get this dope of it actress in this movie and that shows you how much movie there is in this movie

where like at the end they're like it was more than a cameo but not enough for like a full role well hold on yo she's in a relationship with Ayo and I was like wait what well hold on they had you know

I'm sure they shot a lot of scenes, but you got to make room for Val, guys. Come on. Has some respect. Yeah. You know, I got to have room for Val. I mean, the movie made room when it didn't need it. Oh, let's get to that.

Before we get to it, you guys, just want to make sure you guys get on the, did we like the final battle? It's very important to talk about the final battle. Final battle was a very high-stakes battle between Telecon and, and Wakanda. I mean, we talked about it a little early.

I think I enjoyed it a little more than Charles did. I think I mean, she got stabbed in the chest, man. No, I'm not even talking about the final fight. I mean,

the final battle between the two sides. I'm talking about the Midnight Angels, Ironheart. I'm talking about Sonic. I'm talking about

the, it's not Sonic the Hitchhog. He wasn't involved. But the, but the, can you imagine if all of a sudden

they're fighting? Sonic just comes in. With the rings? You know what I'm saying? But the final fight, was this one of the best, battles we've seen. Was this the best big battle we've seen in Marvel since endgame?

I mean, that's like saying like, did the cooking at your favorite restaurant get better after being really shitty for a while? So, I don't know. I mean, name me the good fight. Name me good fights

in any MCU movie that we've got recently. Final battle between the three Peters and Okay, that's one. The music note fighting Dr. Strange. It's great. It's great. I'm talking about final battles.

Okay, fine. The necromancer fight in multiverse of madness. Yeah, you like that. See, he liked the necromancer fight. What about the final fight in Thor, love, and thunder? You're with the kids, yeah. Funny. Like, not.

Like, it was funny. He was like, cool. I haven't, like, gone back on YouTube. Like, yo, you know what I want to see you today? Them little kids fight. And Thor, you know what I'm saying? I'm not trying to be mean, but like it was cool. Like, Wakanda Forever.

The last fight was cool, but it wasn't like my favorite part of the movie. Also, there was one thing about the final fight that like kind of annoyed me. It was only on a technical level because we saw this in IMAX and the final battle between Shuri and Namor was clearly shot in not IMAX. And then the final battle was and it's intercut between the two. So we constantly went from like this IMAX frame to a narrow frame. IMAX frame narrow frame. And as much as that was disorienting,

I kind of wish that we had just stuck with one for a minute because it was constantly like going back and forth between the two that I barely knew what was going on for some of it. Steve Aspect ratio over here. Steve Aspect ratio Alman right there. Steve, are you one of those people in the comments who was just like, nah, stop complaining about House and Dragon. You just not, yo, TV sets.

You're TV sets off. Like, turn, don't you turn your lights off, you dummy? I mean, but can we be real? also like the final fight between all the Wakanda's in and all of the members of Talakon. I was like part of you is like, sure, you're the smartest. What are smartest

people on the planet? Why are you fighting in the middle of the ocean? Like, did you watch the movie? There's a clear reason why they fought there. I'm like, if anything goes wrong, it's just a bunch of people in the middle of the fucking ocean.

Charles, no, there's a... I get why the movie tells us I get why the movie tells us they need to fight. No, that was part of the strategy. What are you talking about? I'm just saying, what's the strategy? The strategy. And like, here's the thing.

The strategy gets fucked up. The strategy gets fucked up. The only way that, first of all, the only way to make them fight is to fight them in the ocean. That's just the only way to make them fight. You have to draw them out by making them fight, fight in the ocean. Then you have to get them far enough out to where you can capture Namor and then take him to a place where he's by himself. and he's been depowered. I understand all of this,

but when the plan gets fucked up the way it tends to get fucked up in movies, I was just thinking strategically, I'm like, oh, so it's just a bunch of black people on like a sinking ship now. They're fighting all that Titanic.

They ain't going to win this. Like, I knew immediately I was immediately. I'm a stop. I saw your eyes. Van, don't even do it. You, boy. I saw your eyes.

Don't even do that. That's not funny. Damn, bro. We were so good. Bring up some bad cultural memories right there. You know what I'm saying? For me, I mean, we talked about the final fight. The fight I like the most comes to the middle of a movie,

and it's with the Koye and Atuma. Dog. When Atuma throws Akoye's head on his spear and she goes, and drops, I was like, hey, man. Beat the dog shit out of her. Dog. Like, beats the dog shit out of her. I thought he was going to start going.

you think the darkness is your ally like he was having too much fun that shit was a hate talking shit to her the whole she put up numbers on the other folk but too much different built different all right to Chala was recast in this movie oh my god

okay too we have to can we just have a nice moment with this nice nice charming young man that's not true they recast they recast the child in this movie it's not true

Arjuna, give me a head nod. Yes or no. Did they recast Tachala in this movie? No. They did. It's Tachala in this movie.

There is a Tachala in this movie. Not the Tachala. This is the way they recast it. Y'all stop acting like punk-ass. Like, seriously, I'm sick of the bullshit. I am going to say there was a comic book run by Tanya Easy Coats where Tchala goes to space. And I'm just like, oh, is Keng going to

kid Tachala? and he's just going to come back. And then age him up. And age him up real quick. Oh. We got out the theater and like, you know, Van and I talked about the movie a little bit. And one of our first things was like, all right, so that kid's going to be 25 the next time we see him. Right.

Hell yeah. He's going to be played by the dude from Stranger Things about the next time we see him. Yeah. They don't, like, either they wait another 15 years to make one or they find some way to age this character up. And listen, black, black don't crack. All we got to do is be like, yeah, it's, you know, it's been 13 years. Everybody looks the same. Don't worry about it.

They're black. They all look good. Or they do, or they do, like, a Disney Plus series, Kit King. It's like some home alone stuff. Baby Panther. You know what I mean? The kitten caboodle starring Tchala. Baby Panther, where he's got the thing is, you know what I'm saying?

He's doing this whole deal. and is him, he's running around Wakanda, hijinks, you know, you got a different cameo every time. It's Uncle War Machine. What do you have to tell me about? So what did you guys think about this introduction? I didn't see this coming.

Oh, this broke me. This was the moment, like, I was... It was so sad. I was, like, strong throughout the rest of the movie with the minute, like, this little cute kid comes on and you realize he's the child's kid. Was this the cutest kid? Was this the cutest kid, like, ever?

He broke... Like, I was just like, oh, my God. gosh, I just want to like hug you. And he has like that little lift. I was like, come on. I'm like, please say the Kennedy curse does not come for this little child. Like I was. And he was so strong and confident.

You know, he's in the movie earlier in the movie. Yeah, he's one of the kids at the- When she gets there, but you don't realize it, right? So he was so confident. He's like, you have, I have a secret. My name is, and I started to miss up. I'm like, I have a secret. My name is Tchala, son of Keechia.

King to child. I'm like, oh, my God. I started crying. I started crying. Toussaint is my Haitian name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, Steve, did you know who he was named after? Toussaint LaVoteur, leader in the Haitian Revolution. All right. So you know. Acting like I didn't write this document. Yeah. I'm making sure that you knew that before. Do you know about Judy Bookman and some of the other people?

All right. Can we not put Steve on the fucking? I'm just saying you want to be an ally there in one time. Hold on. Hold on. I'm saying. There is one time in the history of the Western world that slaves

successfully overthrew a government and took their country. And that is in Haiti. All right? And the world community has been making Haiti pay ever since for destroying white supremacy in their country.

You guys take the time. The name Tucson means something. Go look it up. There's one time in history that slaves have successfully killed their masters, Haiti. Shout out to all my Haitian people down there. Love you guys.

Everett Ross and Val have had sex before. Why would you start like that? That's in this movie. Says she wants to jump on this Peloton in the movie. I thought that they were married, weren't they? They were for a time. That's what you could have said. There was overtly sexual vibes in the movie.

Yes, because they are ex-husband and ex-wife. You could have worded that a little different. What difference is it made? Y'all, you know, man. Vans is not burying the lead Clearly you're not You all always do this God damn weird shit

when we get to this point in the podcast Okay Don't mention the friend zone It's the fact that we always Have this point in the podcast When we talk about this Like you always just take shit

Too like too far That's not true I don't agree Oh whoa Wait you play stop the cat For me so much Steve Like come on bro That's Pina stop the cat

Come on now All right Ross is going to be in secret invasion How? He's on the run. Not what he got about? They broke him out. I mean,

just because you break somebody out don't mean you're not on the run anymore. That means you're even more on the run. Like nobody's broken out of jail on the MCU before. We're kind of breaking out. We're kind of breaking out. It's a little different. You feel me?

It's a little like, ah, we don't want to mess with those guys. So. That's not true. Everybody messes with Wakata now. Even when Steve wrote those guys out, half of them went on the run. Okay.

And the other half of them cut deals and had to live with ankle monitors and stuff. That was Steve. Steve, not Wakanda. So what does that mean? He's going to live in Wakanda as a fugitive from America and then still being... Something has to happen is what I'm asking you guys.

Yeah, man. What's going to happen? Shoot, bro, you know. A little work release program, you feel me? He'll be like, hey, we got you, dog. You know, you know, I was going to be right there. You know what I'm saying? Watching you, you're going to be straight.

Did Everett Ross serve any purpose in this movie? Did Vowell serve any purpose in this movie? I think Vow's the worst sin. I think Everett Ross being there. he's a holdover from the second film he provides them information Val being there is borderline unacceptable

frankly I don't acceptable but more so pointless like this is the this and along with some of the Ironheart stuff is kind of the MCU Disney plus business of it all that we're kind of got to get through a little bit where we have to like set up these other things

that will not really lay any sort of groundwork in the movie that we're talking about but like as far as the other branches that this will lead to, it has to be there, quote unquote. I really felt like this was the most forced thing in this movie that felt very, very odd for little to no reason.

You could take all the VAL parts out. This movie would still work and make sense and would probably be better. Yes. Yeah. And this is nothing against, I love Julia Louis Dreyfus. I love her to death. Yeah, it's great to see her.

It's cool. But like, what was the point? yeah we didn't we didn't need any of it but if that was going to be anybody else isn't it just cool that it was her it is cool that it was her but you know I would have rather

see more of Talakon instead of this if I'm being honest yeah yeah all right before you get to the midnight media ranking oh boy here we go

I'm to ask a question yeah you're trying to get an agenda off look at him he's rubbing his hands like bird man rubbing him together like Burma, he's excited like... Burrman, baby, I fly it anywhere.

Did you get those lugs like I asked you? Get the lugs, wear him in NYC. Burman Lutz. Is this movie better than the original Black Panther? You go first, Van, because you're the one who is trying to get this agenda off. I say it's as good,

but I think it's slightly better. Oh, boy. So better, in your opinion? Better. Just stand on it. Don't say slightly better. because you weren't talking, you was talking to Slick about this.

You came out saying this is better than Black Panther. Stand on it. Why? Personally for me, even though there's a glaring absence here, I think this movie, to me, feels like the stakes are higher. It feels like an all-consuming battle

for the future of what, like for the, existence of Wakanda, not just the future of Wakanda. It feels like the entire country of Wakanda was under the threat of annihilation unless they figured out

how to galvanize and redefine themselves in the absence of Tachala. And because that was the central driving thing, that plus Namor fighting for

what he believes is the future of his country. It just made for a big event, high stakes, emotionally grounded, superbly acted, not perfect, but really affecting really emotional event movie. And it's hard to do. You don't do that that much. And, you know, movies are not devoid of circumstances, right? The movie, when the movie comes out, it's not devoid of the real world circumstances around it, you know? Certain movies mean more.

to us and they have more stuff to do because, you know, of things that are happening in real life or because of how the movie comes out. In-game is great, right? It's fantastic, but it's 10 years of work to get you to there. You know what I mean? It's 10, 11 years of work to get you to end-game. This movie dealt with a lot of really difficult things, but packaged them in a film with a lot of punch and then delivered.

and to me, at the end of the day, to quote the SEC conference, this movie just means more than the original Black Panther. Oh, right. And it does. And to, and by the way, if this movie would have had Tachala in it, something that we haven't really discussed,

I felt Tachala's absence in this movie. I've been to recast the Chala person. You guys know that. I felt the absence of the character in this movie. if by some means this film goes kind of the same way but Tachala's in this this is maybe maybe the best Marvel movie ever

you know what I mean? It's like if you have Tachala going back and forth here this movie is fantastic in a genre defining way I think his absence is the only thing that stops it from being that I really super enjoyed it like I think it was better than the original See, I just, I can't let this slide. I like to Wakanda forever.

I think they... Now, you're going to let it slide because it's my opinion. Get your shit up. They did the thing. They, Ryan Coel and co were handed an impossible task. But let's be clear. Black Panther is a singular achievement

in terms of like what it did. No one was expecting Black Panther to do what it ended up doing. When you think about the iconic status of not only what Chadwick Bozeman did with his portrayal of Tachala, but everything that it launched with even what is this movie called Wakanda Forever, the salute, all of these different things, that is lightning in a bottle. And as much as I love Wakanda Forever, I don't know if it has that lightning in a bottle quality to it.

I don't think it's a tight as movie as Black Panther. I left Black Panther Wakanda Forever being like, I love so much of this movie, but there's like 20 minutes of it that I would cut out. I don't think that there's 20 minutes of Black Panther that I'm like, absolutely cut this out. I do agree with you that like the stakes in the world are higher because it's a second film.

They're not introducing Wakanda to us anymore. We've already fallen in love with these characters, but I think it takes more than the stakes of the movie to make it something that is overarchingly just great. I think Black Panther, when we look back on it, Anytime you see a solo movie now, especially that's led by a marginalized person, you're like, was that Black Panther? Was it better than Black Panther?

I don't think you're going to happen. I don't think that's true at all. I didn't leave Shang She going, is that movie better than Black Panther? There were conversations on social media. That's fine. But like, I don't, I'm not comparing every single movie. I think that's unfair to these movies to, I think it's unfair to, I think it's unfair to compare every single movie with a marginalized character to Black Panther.

Panther. But that's what we do. Whether it's fair or not, that's what we do. I don't think that's true at all. I don't, I don't like, I've seen people, just because people do it, I never once compare Black Panther to, I'm not going to interrupt your thing anymore, but I don't, I don't, I don't, never once compare Black Panther to Shang Shi or to Miss Marvel or anything like that. Well, I think the thing that I'm talking about is I think that Black Panther as a solo movie proved to especially the white people in charge that not only will people, come show out for these movies, but that if you put someone

who we aren't used to seeing at the center of this movie, it could be successful beyond your wildest imagination. That's something I don't think you can take away from the original movie, and I just think textually, when you watch that first movie, it is so tight, everything about it has been so considered,

and because of the situations that are bigger than Wakanda Forever, like Chadwick's death, and having to continue the MCU project, I think O'Connor forever has to do too much for you even to start to compare it to the original. I even think the comparison is unfair. I'll be, well, you got to compare them there too.

But, I mean, you don't have to compare him. But to be honest with you, as far as tight as you say, that Black Panther is, I don't think that it's that tight. I think that there are definitely lulls in the movie. I think whenever you lose Tachala in that movie, it goes on a long lull until he comes back. Like, I think, I think there are definitely lulls in the movie. But look, I don't want to read.

I'll just ask you this. If you take whatever lulls, I don't agree. If you take whatever lulls you have in Black Panther, and you compare them to the lulls of like Ironheart, Everett Ross, Val, I think the lulls in Wakanda forever because it's are way. Everett Ross and Val are in the movie for a combined five, ten minutes. I don't know. Four scenes.

Anyway, that's fine. We disagree. Mint boys, I'm sure you guys will disagree to. go for it. First and foremost, respect. The Ruby Williams, disrespect is crazy, okay? She solved the Isaac problem.

All right. She went up to 30,000 feet and solved the ice and problem when Iron Man didn't do, all right? Have some respect. No, but is this movie better than Black Panther? Oh, boy. I think they're in the same tier,

right? When we talk about Marvel movies, and I'm sure at some point, we'll rank them all again. But I think, they're in the same tier, like in the top level, top one or top two, whichever one you want to go to.

In terms of which one I would put ahead of the other, I think that, I think I'm with Charles. I think Black Panther O'Connor Forever has a little too much fat on it, and that the first Black Panther movie was just such a moment in time

that can't be replicated, can be duplicated. Like, you had to be there. You had to be there. For the event, I'm just talking about the film, but I get what you're saying. No, but I mean like... But it's all... It's all of the parts.

Not to me, but not to me, though. I'm like, you know what I mean? No, no, no, but Van, Van, Van, Van, Van. You guys, I didn't like the original Black Panther that much. Like, just be honest with you, I've told you before. Yeah. I thought the movie was good, but, like, I thought the movie was good, and I felt the same emotional feelings that everybody was talking about,

but I did not think that that movie was as good as everybody else, as not everybody because it's mad people that did. I did not think that that movie was as good. I thought that this was a better, better movie. So I get the cultural thing around the, like, the movie. I get, I get how big of a deal it was and how proud we felt. But as a film going to watch something that I enjoyed,

I thought this was better. The original Black Panther is still way tighter than Wakanda Forever. It has way less fat. Even if it's, even if it's tighter, tighter doesn't necessarily mean better. In this case, it does. Like, not to me. But you guys, look, a difference of a genie young.

It's okay, guys. I know you, I know you millennials were taught that, well, not millennials, Gen Z or whatever, because I guess I'm going to- All right, now, old man, Vann is talking about millennials now. Okay, TikTok generation was taught that any time you don't agree with somebody, that, like, you have to get all-emotional and huff up and go, no.

With somebody, you know. You somebody's not a bullshit when they start talking about the TikTok generation. So, like, bro, I can't tell you

how many times on this podcast, like, y'all get, y'all get nitpicky over the, the silliest shit. Like,

don't say friend zone. It's, you know, why do you keep bringing this up? It's been six years. Because let me tell you why I still bring it up because that told me so much

about y'all. That told me so much about y'all. I told me so much about y'all, there's a lot of fron going on on this bitch. because I know you niggas. But anyway, because we just don't agree about it. It's fine.

I appreciate everybody. I'm not saying. Of course, we don't have to agree on it, but I'm just saying the moment where he comes back and he's like, I did not yield for the challenge. And as you can see, I'm not dead. Now I'm all dressed up in my, you know, full Nigerian clothes, you feel me? I'm saying, I'm like, wow, this is, this is cinema. this is this is what you want this is everything you can ever ask for and like this movie again

Wakanda forever is great but there's just something like special about black panther as a film that like you know i'm not going to sit here and be like yeah wakonda forever did the same thing it didn't it didn't but that's okay they can't all be like that that's fine still a great film still a film i love a lot but i got i got to put black panther the old got to put the o g black panther above the I would say again, I like the arguments that there's fat on both of these bones here for both movies and I do

think that I enjoy the sum of the original Black Panthers parts more because it has a lot of great things that I can still remember to this day. Chadwick aside, I have way fonder memories of revisiting that movie and every time that I do it's a lot more. Like, it seems more joyous.

It feels more impactful after I watch that movie. And not to say that this doesn't achieve any of those things because it really does, Wakanda Forever, I mean, but I really think that, like, of the lows that Charles mentions in Wakanda Forever, I like the lows in Black Panther more. I like the highs in Black Panther one more. And the highs in Wakanda Forever are incredible. They really, really are. I just, I like the sum of that.

Those parts a bit better. Midnight meter ranking. For those I'm familiar, the midnight meter is where the midnight boys rank the film on a scale of 1 to 12. Normal rankings of 1 to 10. Anything was reserved only for timeless game-changing movies and shows if you go above 10. So the question now becomes, what do you give Black Panther, Wakanda Forever, as a ranking?

Start off with Charles. Wait, why do I gotta go first? You're setting the tone today. All right. All right. I liked Wakanda Forever a lot. I think they did just an amazing job in the worst circumstances.

I think I'm gonna give it a very, very, very, very strong eight. Okay. Jones. Wow. That's one way to set the tone. And A is good. What a? It is really good.

And it's not bad. Wow. And eight is an 80% on our scale. Oh, boy. Okay, well, no, because I speak very highly the first one. This is a step down, step or two down. I would give this. I thought about it a lot.

I've prayed. I've talked to Boston, you know, a couple times. I'm going to give this. I'm going to give it a 10. I'm going to give it a 10. It's not game-changing, but, you know, it's still a very special film. So what you give the original Black Panther? Like a 12.

That's a 12. Original is 12. Really? Yes. Yes. It's in the Hall of Fame. The original Black Panther is a 12. Yes.

Okay. Can't believe it. Shaghani can't be like it. I'm like that's a 12. Oh, all right. It's easily a 12. What are you telling? It's easily a 12.

Oh, whoa. We call 12s game changing movies. Was Black Panther? game-changing movie or not? Not to me. That shit made a billion dollars, bro. That's not true. That she's not, like, go on, man. It literally changed the way how people look at movies now for people of color.

Like, like, come on. Changed it. Change the game. Changed it. Had motherfuckers doing Wakanda forever. All the cast was like, can you chill, bro? Like, come on, man. The movie was culturally very, very significant.

And narratively, and narratively. It is one of the best solo movies they've ever done. Like, when I'm talking about game changing, I'm, I mean, game-changing in terms of, like, I, like, the Dark Night changed the game to me. In-game, changed the game. These movies fundamentally shifted comic book films forever. Like, so when I'm saying, Black Panther didn't?

Even narratively, you don't think Black Panther changed the game. Nah. Hey, that's cap. Narratively, nah, that's not true. What are you talking about? Nah. You lying. Nah, what are you talking about?

All right, narratively. Like, I'll ask this then. Not. If you think about what Black Panther did, name me, because you really can't. If we're talking about solo movies, I was there with Black Panther released. We were getting to a point where I was like, oh, is Marvel still good at these? Black Panther. Is Marvel still good at what?

At like the first solo movie out, where it's just like, if you look at all the solo movies they've done, Black Panther is better than Captain America, Thor, Incredible Hulk, Antman, Dr. Strange. Honestly, it's probably... I don't think it's better than Dr. Strange. Still, I would say... Yeah, it's crack. What are you talking about? I don't think it's better than Dr. Strange.

Oh, I don't. I don't think it's better than original Iron Man. Besides Iron Man, name me, and it might be better than Iron Man, name me one first solo movie from Marvel. That's better than Black Panther. But even if you're saying that it, like, change the game, the solo movies that they've done, after that have still been, like, changed the game.

How? Because it was a good solo movie? By the way, hold on, hold on for a second. Let's do a couple of things here. Let's put this into context. Okay, the first time that we saw Captain America in a solo movie was the first time we saw Captain American, right? The first time that we saw,

the first time that we saw Iron Man in a solo movie was the first time we had seen Iron Man. The first time we saw Dr. Strange in a solo movie was the first time we had seen Dr. strange. The first time we had seen Thor in a solo movie was the first time we had seen Thor. Black Panther for all the

strengths of the movie as being a solo story had the advantage of a movie having a fully fleshed out MCU ecosystem and the character having premiered in a movie before that gave a ton

of exposition to we was. He didn't have to lose his father in that movie. He didn't have to have to have the arc going from angry guy in the movie to going to the end. So there is context for this. So can I ask this? Then name me a better solo movie. Name me a better solo movie after Black Panther then. Let me finish. But if you're saying that it changed the game, then how did it change the game if the solo movies after Black Panther haven't been as good as it? Because I think it raised the bar. By the way, by the way, there's no reason to get. so emotional about this.

Here's the thing. I'm asking you. The reality is you and I look at this differently, Charles. Because you're coming at me. Like, I'm crazy for being like, it's a game changer. And nobody came in at you from being, I don't agree. And I'm telling you, I don't think it was a game changer. I think it was a really, really super popular cultural event.

And I'm not saying that it wasn't. But in terms of it, when I say a game changer, I mean, this movie is made now, superhero movies will never be the same. And that's why you're wrong. And so, and so that's like, that's what I don't understand. So the OG Avengers was a

game changer. It's a superhero team up movie. Iron Man was a game changer. With Civil War a game changer? No. Civil War, no. No. And the reason why Ingame was a game changer, it wasn't because the reason why Ingame was a game changer is because

in game was the first time that an entire saga of superhero storytelling have been buttoned up to that degree you have in endgame, you have what, 30, 40, 50 characters in it,

10 years of story. Everybody coming, that is a game changer. That's something that we don't even know that that's something that when I say change the game, I mean, you look at other people trying to figure out how they do that same thing.

Like, to me, when I say game change, that's what I'm talking about. There are so, there are so many characters. There are so many characters in this movie that are in this movie specifically because Black Panther was so huge and was textually meant so much

to the MCU that they're like, nah, Namor doesn't need to debut in Fantastic Four. It might actually behoove this character to be in a, in now a franchise that's as big as Black Panther. Same thing with Ironheart. Ironheart could have just showed up in the Disney Plus show,

but because Black Panther, was not only so huge culturally, but in the fabric of the MCU. I guarantee you Kevin Fiking and Colour like are like, we can literally launch so many other things where it's like there are not many

movies like that. But that's also bullshit though. How is that bullshit? Because they, because they introduce America Chavez in multiverse of madness. They're introducing they're introducing characters in all of these movies. But how much, like, look at how many characters they're like, we are.

We are going to make this character pop because this solo movie is now one of our biggest franchises. First of all, first of all, Namor is in the source material, Charles. Namor is an eternal lifelong and Atlantis is an enemy to Oconda. It makes sense because they're going to do that in every movie. And they've all, by the way, and they've always done it.

They did it in the very first film they ever made. in the first film they ever made, Marvel ever made, the movie goes through the whole thing, and at the end of the movie, here comes Nick Fury. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like when even in two, Black Widow was introduced in Iron Man 2, like this is, you know what I mean? And Thor, they introduced Hawkeye.

They've done this. They have a comic book system of rolling these people out. that is the way that this has been done. So I'm just saying, yeah, it matters that Riri Williams is in Waukanda forever, but not really. They've been doing that. I will keep saying. All I'm saying is, yes, they do this.

What I'm trying to say is what makes Black Panther the original so great is that he exceeded expectations as a character. So now we talk about Black Panther in the same Exchon as we talk about Captain America, Iron Man, Thor. He is a character that by standing next to him, we're like, oh, he's important. Like, Rie Rui Williams is really, really important. I don't think that Riri Williams is going to be, I think that a lot of people are going,

I think that Rew Williams is a character. So this is what I'll agree, finds a place we can agree. I think that it made a lot of sense to introduce Rie Rew Williams in this movie because of who they want Riri Williams to resonate with. Yes, okay.

They want Ree Rie Williams to resonate with the black fans of MarryRee Williams to resonate with the black fans of Marvel and they want Riri Williams to resonate with young black girls who already are going to look up to Shuri and look up to. So it made a lot of sense to introduce her into this because of who they want her to resonate with. The synergy there is great. You know what I'm saying? They should have thrown Luke Cage in that bitch. That's like, yeah, that's enough.

That's enough. We didn't even get everybody else. It's been nice scoring. It's, we've, you guys, it's been 30 minutes. I went and got lunch. All right. This is, this is, this is,

wait, hey, hey, don't make a, don't make me, hold on for a second, Jomey. What's up?

Hold on. You got your own podcast. All right? So, so, so wait, so wait a second. Don't,

don't fuck up. All right? You got, you got you, you got your own podcast. This is the DNA is midnight boys. Me and Van Gond at each other's the DNA.

We don't tell y'all how long y'all can talk about anything. All right, Steve, did we finish midnight, I mean, no. Steve,

what's your midnight ranking? One to 12, go. I'm giving this an eight. I'm agreeing with Charles. I think there are a lot of great things in this. I think there's a little bit of fat.

I think there's the things that I would cut out. There are things that aren't exactly needed. But again, it accomplishes the impossible task of making a Black Panther movie without Chadwick Bozeman. And I think that's incredible. I think it was incredibly compelling

to see Namor, to see, Shuri, see all these characters go through all of that loss with us. It's an eight for me. I give it a 10. Somebody was sense. Thank you. I give it a 10. I give the movie. I give the movie

a 10. I think I was actually on my first watch, I was blown away. Seriously, I was blown away by how they were not, when I say blown away but what they were able to accomplish and execute, it wasn't even

blown away by a way, by what they were able to accomplish and execute. I think Namor and Talakhan and some of the stuff that went on in this movie, to me, it really expanded my expectations and my understandings of what a superhero movie could be. Not a game changer. It's not an 11 because it wasn't good enough to be an 11. It's not a game changer. It's not 12.

Like I said, when me giving out 12s, it's going to have to be, you know, like real game changers. I think it was a 10. And look, you guys, for everyone out there listening, most of you probably agree with Charles, some of you agree with me, yo, it's okay to have, it's okay, baby. It's okay to have a difference of opinion.

We're going to let that whole thing rock. Steve, don't trim none of that. It's true. It absolutely has to. You got to trim it. A hundred percent has to. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm serious.

This is a two and a half hour pod. It's not even about that. They like the podcast. Don't Steve leave that argument and let the fans have that. I'm serious. Like, though, like, let the fans have that. It's a little bit longer. I've never heard people complain about a podcast being.

Here's a thing, Van, here's the thing. Normally, I'd be like, yeah, that makes sense. Cool. We were doing the midnight meter. And then you took like 15 minutes to not do the midnight meter. You know what I mean? I was directly challenged. At some point, you know what I mean?

At some point, we got to start thinking about, you know, the segment, now these things work, you know? Tell me how to podcast? I'm not telling you got a podcast. Like, like, oh, my, gosh. I'm just saying, leave it. You can't have the black movie of the season tearing this podcast apart. You, Charles, that was your energy.

All I was doing was giving the beat. And you, you acted like you made Black Panther. You were like, you know, like, Charles. All I did was give me my opinion. You, bro, you have... You know what? This is the same energy that you brought to the midnight court. This is why you...

Seriously, the last thing I'll say. This is why you lost midnight court. You could have won the midnight court in a court of public opinion, but all you did, the entire midnight court, was attack everyone for having an opinion against... No, because here's the thing. No, no, no, don't put that on me. You want to know what I'm done with?

Because you like to act like, you're just like, you poison the well. every single episode. Like, we should, we should literally tally how many times you've been trying to get your recast the child of shit off. Between that,

between your Twitter trying to get that off. And then literally, Black Panther's not that good. Y'all know how I feel about Black Panther. Man, y'allowing about Black Panther. Like, dog, every single. It's how I feel. And the recast,

and the recast the child thing, the recast the Chala thing was different. Because I felt like we, that we were old morphed in the character. But they did do it. It's happening. it again. So you're like, oh, Charles, you're always getting up and arms. I'm like, you've brought up recast the chala more than any motherfucker guy.

I do because I think they should have recast them. But you know what? Guess what? This is what I'll do. Let me show you. I was wrong. I was wrong about the recast the Chala thing. I watched the movie. Would this movie have been better with Chalah in it? Yes, it would have. But that Tachala would have. But that Tachala would have. had to have been Chad with Bozeman. That Tachala, to make this family, to make this family to make this story complete, the Tachala that would have had to have been in this movie

would have had to have been Chad with Bozeman. If not, it had been an alien in a world that we are already familiar with. It would have had to have been chat with. They couldn't have done it with anyone else. The recast, the Chala situation comes from, It comes from an amazing place. It comes from a place to restore and appreciate the forever aspect of superheroes to put the character, the superhero character, like above whatever real world things are going on, which is what we do with these legends and these stories.

But in this situation, Kugler, Nate Moore, Titia Wright, Winston Duke, Kevin Fagie, Angela Bassett, all of the other. those people were right. And I'm not going to speak for the rest of the people that were talking about recasting. But for me, I have no problem admitting I was wrong. I was wrong about it. I love you. Oh, my gosh. The, what's big?

I'm a man. This is a big, this is a big, this moment. It's a big moment for you. What are you talking about? Can we get some cheers? Can we get some cheers? I'm right. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

It's not that big of a deal. This is a first for the podcast, man. I saw the movie. One day you guys will get to the point. in your lives where you just realize that sometimes you get it wrong and you just got to say that. So I have no problem. I watched the movie.

I felt the absence of Chala, no doubt. Of course, I wonder about what the movie would have been with Tichala. But this film had to be made exactly the way it was made. Wow. That's what I say. Powerful moment on this podcast. That's a wrap. Friday, the House of R gives their deep dive on the latest.

episode of Andor, Andor. One of the best Star Wars shows. Some people here think it's the top three Star Wars project ever made. Ever, me. There you go. Monday, the House of Our Returns,

but they're deep dive on Wakanda forever. We gave you 218, which will probably be trimmed down. It should be trimmed down. But we gave you, me and Van Wilde. Like, we gave you 218.

I challenge the House of R. to give us three hours of content. That's light work. What are you talking about? You're asking Prime LeBron to get you 27, 10 and 9. Yeah, you better say Prime. Yeah. Because if you say you ask a LeBron, that's dicey.

Today? Today? You better say, Brian can get out of bed today. Like, you've been, come on. Don't disrespect the man like that. He didn't play last night. He didn't make the trip. So, yeah, Wakonda Forever, House of Our deep dive.

follow Ringiverse on socials Joni, what are the socials? The socials are Ringiverse on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok, and also you can follow our Facebook page. Come join in, chime in on Facebook at Ringaverse.

Our producer is Steve, the architect almond. What was Steve's new nickname? Steve apartheid almond, no. No, Steve Aspect ratio, Almond. Steve Aspect ratio Almond. Jomi, the explainer, Adidiron, is on social media. Hashtag, I like this one.

We might have to keep this one for a while. I'm scared. Show me the feather serpent god. I should like that one. We can keep that one. Oh, now you get the yes. Now you get the yes. The feather serpent god.

I'm chatted. Yeah, I like that one. Giacurikan. An additional production from Arjuna. Arjuna. Can we? He can hear you. He can see you.

An additional production from Arjuna Raqqqa. Charles take us out. Wakanda forever is a wrap. The Midnight Boys are on. Sadly, please do not go out like my man. The Feathered Serpent God, Gagula, Gula. Did it feel like Winston Duke was having the most fun on set? Oh, he was for sure having the most fun on set.

Winston Duke was killing it. He didn't have much to do in this movie, but whatever he was. He's like, oh, we're just going to laugh and have fun. Yeah, I was like, ooh, Mubaku is like, give him a Disney Plus show. He's so fucking. He's just a big dumb jock. He's great. Talking reckless.

Now, Mbbaugh get a Disney Plus show. Whoa, we get an ag at the Harkness show. Wait, we're giving everybody a show. Did you just call Embakou dumb? He's a big jock. Wow. Wow. Oh, come on.

Wow. Wow. That's crazy. Wow. That's crazy. HR. Jbar. I can't believe you say that.

Jesus Christ, what are you, Steve? A NFL GM? Yeah, I mean, Embacher's got all the physical tools, you know, he's got the strange. Steve just said Ubaku and his posse? Like, oh, no. Who is like a bottle? Look, this are things we like about Embakou. He's got great fluid hips.

Great size, great speed. Great speed. Great speed. A staff with a bulb on the end of it. Not a great decision maker. His wonderful score. You know, we got a score kind of young. Yeah.

Questions and concerns about his ability to adapt to a complex office scheme. And honestly, there are character conversations we have to have. They're character issues. Some people wonder, will he be able to keep a weight on his frame? He's reportedly a vegan. Hmm. Steve. Will he be able to, like, learn the playbook?

We'll be able to learn the playbook. It's a question. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Also, his crew, they, they, they, they kind of some G-unit gorillas. Oh, we'll get back on track. No. Leave Steve a load.

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