The Ringer-Verse - 'Black Widow' Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: July 10, 2021

Charles Holmes is joined by Open Mike Eagle to discuss their instant thoughts on the newest entry of the MCU's Phase 4, 'Black Widow' (16:15). They also discuss some of the MVP's and favorite scenes of this film, and where they would like to see the MCU go from here (54:54). Host: Charles Holmes Guest: Open Mike Eagle Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: TD St. Matthew-Daniel and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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See terms at fanduel.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Welcome into the ringerverse. The ringers nexus podcast fee for all things. Fan. Now, guys, I know that my man, Van, Van, He still is not here. I'm still sending all of our prayers and positive thoughts out to him.

But I wanted to give you guys a special treat for rocking with us through such a tumultuous time. So I've invited on what I consider a renaissance man, okay? Musician, actor, podcaster,

and most importantly, the biggest and the smartest comic book fans I know, I wanted to invite Open Mike Eagle to the show. How are you doing, That was a fantastic and very intimidating welcome, sir. Thank you for that. Yeah, of course. And Mike, I want to do something that's very, very special.

You are the first guest we've ever had on the Midnight Boys, okay? And Jomey, Steve, can you come in here real quick? Yes, indeed. What's happening? Right here, for the first time ever, we're inviting our first new Midnight Boy to the show. So what we're going to do. Okay. Wait a minute. Am I about to be hazed? Is that what's about to happen?

No, no, no, no. You're going to do something that no one else has ever done. You're going to get to say our catchphrase. Guys, I would like you to say hi to Steve, Jomey, and Open Mike Eagle. And today we are the Midnight Boys. That's a real easy catchphrase. That was easy to catch on. It's super easy, yo.

But, Mike, what I want to help the listeners understand is actually how much of a, of a, of a nerd you are. And I mean that in such a compliment. I'm going to give it to you in the realest way possible. So I got on here like a minute after I was supposed to. And the reason why is because I saw email that my eBay X-Men comic book lock just got delivered. So I had to run and grab it, open it, and look at every issue real fast. I didn't read them. I didn't take them out the bags, but I had to like evaluate every issue that I got in real fast before I got on this call. What type of condition were they at? I mean, they're all decent, you know, like that none of them are going to go to CGC.

You know, I'm not, I'm not going to get them slabbed or nothing like that. But they're all, they're all in good condition. And really, I'm not getting them to like sell them, getting them to have them because that's what I've decided in my adulthood that I want to do with my discretionary income. It's just have all the X-Men comics. That's what I want. And because this is actually, we bonded over the, the X-Men, I believe the first time that I talked to you.

I saw Jonathan Hickman's right behind my head right now. Yes, the powers of 10. And I was just like, I got to ask him about this. We were talking about MF Doom, rest of peace to MF Doom. But like, from then on, I was just like, we need to get him on the midnight boys. Open mic. Would you be willing to play a midnight game with me? That sounds real great.

As long as it's not a weird euphemism for something that I'm worried. After it left my mouth, that was like, that sounds really. Say, we can talk off mic. I'm just saying. A midnight test. Let's call it a midnight test. All right. First question, Team Iron Man, Team Cap. So we're talking Civil War. We're talking about whether or not heroes should be registered. Is that specifically how we're going to decide Team Iron Man to cap? I think it can be that. I also think it could be wider. Who are you rocking with?

Well, I'll take you this. Now, you know, going into, I'd say maybe 10 years ago, I would have said Team Iron Man, but that's just because I thought Iron Man was cooler. So now after all of the movies and reading Jonathan Hickman's Adventures and New Adventures, I'm so solidly team cap because team Iron Man, they run behind the guy who makes decisions that result in everybody dying all the time. So open mic is team cap. Can we get a ding? That was the correct answer.

This is a test. There are correct answers to this. This is a team cap podcast. Okay. Oh, good. Now, we've had some midnight courts here where Van and I argue are, honestly, our best takes, but sometimes our worst takes.

So I want to ask you, Is Black Panther a top five MCU movie? I'm going to say yes. I'm going to say Black Panther is a top five MCU movie. That's a great answer. That seemed like an easy one for here. Wait, so what would be your top five MCU movies, though? I'm going to say Ragnarok.

I'm going to say Infinity War, in game, Black Panther. Ooh, what is this last one? What am I going to do? I have to say Civil War. Not Winter Soldier? Wow. Yeah, I think. Wow. I watched them. I went back and I didn't see Winter Soldier when it came out. And I think I saw Winter Soldier after I saw Civil War. And Civil War just, it just hit me, man. Like the fight, the airport fight. Like, that thing just sits in my mind all the time. Just think about that all the time. Giant man, hitting people with airplanes. Like, that's beautiful. Wow. Wow. This is our first disagreement. But you did get that question right. Black Panther is a top five.

But also I hadn't really thought about it. So I can't even really defend it. All right. So the fans should not attack you. This was all off the top of the day. Off the top, for sure. Absolutely. All right.

This is one. This is a midnight court that I lost, but I want to ask you, who was the greater Jedi? Obi-Wan Kenobi or Luke Skywalker? The Greater Jedi. I think I got to go Luke. I think I got to go Luke. Being you correct. Yeah, okay.

I feel like defeating Vader is like, is pretty, big in Jedidom. You know, like, that's, that's pretty, it's hard to beat beating Vader, especially given Vader's your own father. Like, that's, that's a challenge. Also, the fact that, like, what he was working with, he was working with scraps. You know what I'm saying? He didn't have the whole Jedi Council backing him.

He was just out here solo, Dola with Obi-Wan and a little bit of Yoda's help. Come on. We got to give it to Luke. And, like, the emperor was, like, live trying to manipulate him in the moment. You know what I'm saying? There was a lot he had to work against. He had to go against the emperor and Darth Vader at the same time. Come on, we got to give it.

We got to give it to Luke. All right, this one, this one, it's a little controversial. Grade Sam Wilson's Captain America costume in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Oh, my God. Does it get an A? Does it get an F somewhere in between? What are we rock? Oh, my God.

All right. It's not a bad costume, but I also don't like it. So I'm going to say a B minus. I'm going to give them a B minus. Wow, that's way higher than I would. Oh, good. Okay. That's way higher than I would give it.

What grade are you giving it? I'm giving it a C plus. Okay. It's not that different. It's not that different. It was just like, to be fair, it's like, even in the complex, it's a very complicated costume. Right.

And it's a very hard one to get right. And I'm just hoping with the movie budget in cap four, they could, they could give my man a better suit because he was looking like a powering drive. He kind of was, huh? It kind of looked like a, what was it called? like Spectre Man, like that era of a giant robot person in a suit fighting Tokyo.

Yeah. Our last question. What is your hottest MCU take? The one that killed me. The fans wanted to roast me over an open fire is that I think age of Ultron is better than the original image. I like Age Oltron a lot.

I actually had a discussion about that with somebody a couple nights ago. I was telling my homies like, age of Ultron. It homes up. It hit me in the heart, man. And for those who just listen, and I'm pointing at my heart right now.

The Wanda and Pietro redemption arc in that movie, if you are in any way open and your feelings are available to you in that moment, it's going to touch you right in the chest. It's going to touch you right in the chest. So I'm going to steal your take. I agree with you. Wow.

I absolutely do. Open Mike Eagle, the Renaissance man himself, this is probably the first time on this podcast anyone's agreed with me. I don't even know what to do with these. I love that movie, okay? I love that movie. I'll stand on that.

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you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. All right. So right now, we're going to get into Black Widow Corner. And I want to ask you, what are your thoughts on Black Widow as a character? This can be in the comic books

and in the MCU before going into it. Now, I don't have much experience with Black Widow from the comics because when I was growing up, I read a lot of X-Men, didn't read a lot of Avengers, right? And since then, I think the majority of the Avengers

I read Black Widow, wasn't there or was more of a background character than a lot of the stories that I read. And in the movies, I always feel like

she's been very formidable. She's brought a certain edge to the team being like, I don't want to say like ground level because she's not

Daredevil, you know what I'm saying? But like being more of a grounded character actually helps in these movies. Yeah, you know, like even in the comics

she's always running around with like Daredevil, Hawkeye, Spiderer. She's street level of jays. And I think it actually is really important for these movies to have a character who the audience feels like isn't interplanetary,

isn't a space god, isn't a giant monster. It's a person who has abilities and Ann has gone through some shit. I really do feel like that gives an accessibility into like this world. It's really important. So, you know, there is the questions people always have, right? Like, they're fighting a space invasion and they just, and they have a ninja lady. you know, that doesn't have powers. And, you know, sometimes logically, that can be hard to reconcile. But I think she does a lot socially for the team.

I think she does a lot psychologically for the audience. Yeah, I do think that Black Widow is an important Avenger to have there for all of the reasons that you said. I think what honestly, even like Scarlett Johanson has been saying on this press tour, is that when she was first introduced in the MCU, I think it was a different time. She was almost like this femme fatale. She was very sexualized.

She, like, when she debuted, like, they make fun of it, even in this movie. The poses, the hair flipping. She was kind of like the sexy woman character. And I think that, especially in this movie, they have to do a lot of work to make her a little bit more three-dimensional than that. And they ended up doing that in, like, end game and Infinity War. But this is her movie to kind of, like, really flesh that out. And honestly, not to give it.

any, you know, I will say this, reading comic books, when I was introduced to Black Widow, she was kind of always this woman character that was understood the closer she was to a man. She was either dating Captain America, or she was dating Bucky, or she was dating Daredevil, even in the comic books. And it's only been in like recent years where she's kind of gotten these runs that are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we need to flesh her out more than just the woman Avenger or more than just like Daredevil's. girlfriend or like the woman character that you bring in that the men have to fight over. And in the comic books, they've started to do a good job with that.

And I think in the MCU, part of the reason that they probably had to make this movie is like to give Scarlett Johansson a send off, but also to like to keep the Black Widow mantle alive. And we'll get to that. But I wanted to talk to you about what do you feel about prequels in general? And then like them going like, yeah, Black Widow, that's the first prequel in the MCU. because I have feelings about prequels, but I want to ask you. That's really interesting.

Is this the first prequel? Because I don't know, some of the Captain America stuff feels like it's out of time sequence as well. I guess I would call this the first prequel because we've learned so much about Black Widow. Right. And then they're jumping back to after Civil War to tell this story. Whereas with Captain America,

they started that with World War I. one. I mean World War 2. You know what I'm saying? And then we got to see him in the present. And that's what I think is kind of making it a prequel. I see what you mean. When you watch this movie, I remember thinking about the Disney Plus Marvel shows on the way to this. And you know, we had Wanda Vision and we have Loki now. And those shows

in particular have a way of playing with supernatural forces and interdimensional stuff. where like in the back of my head I kept thinking have they timed this movie to come out because something happens in one of these shows that makes it where suddenly it makes sense to jump back in time.

I had that in the back of my head, right? Now, I know we're not into spoilers yet, but when you watch the movie, clearly it's got nothing to do with any of that. But honestly, where I would have felt like I needed that justification because I thought that would bother me, it didn't bother me at all. actually felt like it felt really good because what it did ultimately, there were a lot of things

about her character and her emotional development and her trauma that were hinted at in other movies. But the way that this puts those things front and center, and because I have seen all those movies, it makes all of that stuff work for me way more. When she talks about what the Avengers mean for her is family and end game, it hits so much harder now. seeing this. The only real problem for me with this movie being a prequel is that you do come out of it like, wow, she didn't mention any of this to anybody. I will say that my issue is that I generally think prequels are really hard to pull off. The best example is like when I was a kid, I thought the Phantom Menace was the coolest shit I had ever seen. I was so young. I was just like everything

about this works. I love it so much. And then watching with adult eyes, I was like, oh, this is, prequels are really, really hard. Yeah, they're difficult. To do, because to raise the stakes to give it tension, we know where Anakin is going to go. You know what I'm saying? And I think the reason why maybe people were let down by Phantom Menace is I remember as a kid seeing that iconic poster of little Anakin

and then his shadow is Darth Vader. And that was the stakes. He's like, how does this cute little boy become Darth Vader? But then as shit went on, you're just like, oh, man, they're rushing it, blah, blah, blah. I'm not going to have the whole prequel discussion. But I think Black Widow has the, has a tension problem where it's like for a lot of it, you know in your back of your head. You're like, damn, Black Widow dies on the movie.

So it doesn't hamper the movie because I did enjoy a lot of it. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, damn, I wish this would have came like before end game. So I really could appreciate it. That is the absolute truth of the matter is that as much as I enjoyed it, it definitely should have come out. earlier. It definitely should have come out in the sequences with the movies because that's really when it would have had the gravitas that it commands for how much money was spent on it, clearly how much work was done with the writing and acting and everything in this thing. I think that if it had come out when it was supposed to, it would ultimately meant the most for this

particular piece of work. Oh, I absolutely agree. But now, we've talked enough about like all of the stuff leading up to it. We're getting it to spoiler territory once again. We're just inching towards it. Yeah, we're like dancing around. We're there. We cross, we cross the line. We are going to spoil Black Widow right. Oh, good. We are actually, absolutely going to. But I don't have to explain that to the people because we have a little sound clip that I would like my man Steve to roll. Can you roll the sound clip, Steve? We're getting ready to talk about the movies. You're listening to a reaction. podcast. The spoilers are coming. Is that Van? That's Van's voice.

That is Van's voice. We got to jazz it up a little bit. He's still here in spirit. He could have been a professional wrestler, man. That's a voice. That's a promo voice. Oh man, Van, the professional wrestler. Wow. He really could have did that. He could have had that life if he wanted it. Now, for the long time listeners, you guys know that right here we do a recap. And because it's a movie, I get 60 seconds. And Steve, what I want, we've been able to choose our music. Can I get some. Bond music. I would like, I would like to do a nice bond music during the 60 second recap. Is that cool with you, Steve? Is that possible? That's absolutely possible. All right, set time on the

clock. We're going to do it now. We open in the early 90s where Natasha was living in suburban Ohio in 1995. Her parents are outed as Russian spies and make a dangerous escape to Cuba. Natasha and Sister Yolena are sent to the red room to become child spies. Flash forward and Natasha is now a fugitive immediately following the main events of Civil War. She hides out and encounters the elusive taskmaster who is relentlessly hunting her to seize possession of the Black Widow mind control antidote, something Yelena secretly said Natasha

in hopes of Natasha and the Avengers eventually coming to the rescue. Nat narrowly escapes Taskmaster and heads to her safe house to Budapesh. She encounters Yelena, newly freed from her mind control, and in desperate search for her family and the Red Room. On the run, Nat bonds with her sister,

after not seeing her for decades and plus to free her fathers, the super soldier Red Garden. After breaking him out, they rendezvous with Melana, where she reveals how she helped engineer the mind control for all of the Black Widow faction. The family hatches a scheme to take down the villain Dracob and the Red Room. Find the taskmaster is Dracov's mind-controlled daughter, and Black Widows frees herself from a fair amount of control. The Red Room is destroyed, and Nat's family go their separate ways as that goes off, to break the Secret Avengers out of the raft.

Don't hold back. Give me your initial thoughts after watching Blackwood. I really liked it. I really did. I really went into it looking at the runtime, kind of having seen a couple reviews from people, non-spoiler reviews from people thinking that like this was something that I was going to watch and just kind of like get through. But I really enjoyed it.

All of the emotions that they. built for what it meant for these people to have been a family for the short time that they were and how they're all struggling with that for the rest of their lives. I genuinely felt it. And I didn't think they'd be able to make me feel it, but they did. So I think just for that alone, I have to say that I enjoyed it. I have to say that I think it did what it set out to do. I think I am probably part of the audience that was underwhelmed by the taskmaster. But we got to get into it. We're going to have a whole taskmaster corner where we're going to geek out.

Because like I don't want the fans like to attack us. But like they did the, if you read the comics, if you play video games, it did Taskmaster. So dirty. It was weird. It was weird. But so you're saying that you came out of the movie really, really happened. I won't say really, really happy because... Satisfied, maybe.

Yeah, satisfied for sure. And definitely, like, thumbs up, I enjoyed it. I have a complicated relationship with this movie because I've seen it twice now. Okay. I went to a screening. I was surrounded by, like, a whole crowd of other writers, critics, whatever. And I went in there not really being that excited for Black Widow. It's not a character or a story that I thought I would like.

And when I got home, my girlfriend was like, what did you think? And I was like, honestly, it was like way better than I thought. Like, I, like, I was way better than I thought it would be. Like, I had a good time. I laughed. I was just happy to be at the movies. And then I rewatched it again today on my TV. And, like, I was like, damn, now that I'm putting, putting second eyes on it,

some of the flaws of the movie definitely, definitely showed themselves. And I also think the difficult thing, too, is that, like, are you up on, like, all of the Disney Plus shoes? Yeah, I'm, I'm very caught up. I'm watching things as they as they appear. I assume that that's part of y'all midnight boys. We do it. Part of the title is that y'all are watching them when they drop. And I'm definitely, I'm in the collective of people who are waiting at midnight to watch each episode.

And here's the thing. When I do think that like there has been a fatigue that has set in because with the Disney Plus shows, I'm like, damn, like this is good, but this isn't like the feeling of going to a movie or this isn't the feeling of like a two hour. we spent $100 million, $150,000, $200 million on this movie. And like when I first saw Blackwood, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm back. I'm doing it. Like, I'm seeing it on a big screen, you know what I mean? One of my first thoughts, and I'm talking about maybe 20 minutes into this movie.

I'm like, damn, they movie so much better than they TV. Yeah. They really do. Like, that, all right, I'm like, and this is like, this is me being 100% real because, like, I have liked a lot of what the TV show has done. The TV shows have done. almost kind of feel like phase one where they don't know how to, they haven't perfected the TV formula in the way that they have with the movies. And when I was even watching Black Widow, even if I had some issues with it, I still was like, damn, they do a two-hour movie way better than

they do like a six or eight out, eight-out, like, you know, eight-episode TV show. Like the TV shows really have a problem with pace. The funny thing is, is like watching an MCU movie after the TV shows, the pacing is just so much better. You're like, oh, better. There's no, there's no fat. We're like just getting into the action. Like the minute you're dropped into this movie, you're like, oh shit, we're going. The minute you see like Alexi or the Red Guardian like throw that shit, I'm like, all right. Yo, like, it's so, it's so good. And I think they do it, they do a really good job of drawing you into character before the action starts to. Yeah. They do a really good job of that. Like, before you know who's who in the family, you're already like,

okay, what's going on here? There's very human drama. That's very accessible. Yeah, and then Red Guardian starts throwing trucks around and shit. You know, it's like, oh, we're doing. And the first kind of big blanket topic that I really wanted to talk about is family.

Because I honestly think that this would have been a more successful family vacation movie than it was a spy movie. That's really interesting. All of the family parts hit for me. They do. Whenever it was like Alexi and Elena and Natasha and the mom and everyone. Melina, yeah.

Melina arguing or like having to sift through all of these complicated emotions about being a family that was essentially just like the Americans that was like put together by the secret Russian organization. All of that like worked for me because I don't know about you. I come from like a very, very complicated family dynamic. I was adopted by my uncle when I was like a teenager. and like all of my cousins that are now my brothers and sisters, being from an adopted family is complicated because you have people who have someone that love them in front of them

but still have that longing to find their biological parents. And you're also like, weirdly, there was this emotion when I was watching the movie of like the most difficult thing I think about like growing up, childhood, whether you're a child when it happens, a teenager or an adult, is like that moment when you realize your parents aren't perfect or your parents have like wants and desires outside of you. And it's like, wait, what? Like my parents aren't on this world

only to make me happy and keep this family unit together. They have their own lives and their own things. Like that part of the movie really did work. Because like Alexi, like, especially in the beginning of the movie, he's like asking, he's asking his bro, Drake off. He's like, yo, when are you going to let me back in the Red Guardian suit? Like the minute, like, they land, he doesn't care that his fake wife got shot. He doesn't care that his daughters are freaking out.

He's like, dog, I've been doing this in Ohio for three years. Get me back in my suit. And that works for him. I hear you. You know, the funny thing about that, too, is a lot of his characters clearly wrapped up and wanted to relive his glory days as a Red Guardian. But I think one thing you see when you do put him back in that family dynamic is how important those three years were for him too. Like, you really, like, I think that. That's one of the main threads of this movie is how much it means for these people to have been programmed to love each other.

But in that time, they really did perform that function for each other. And obviously, Yelena's character being the person who was literally steeped in that because she was the youngest, like how much this meant for her and how much even though it was only three years, because of how real it was in those moments, she carries that forward. And in a way, they all carry that forward. Even when Molina doesn't think she carries that forward, when they're all at the table, she's back into mom mode. Like, it's something it really sticks with me. I think she tells Natasha, don't slouch. And she's telling Yelaine, eat something.

And I was just like, oh, that's the real issue ever. And then there's this part, there's these two lines that Yelina says that really got me. She says, quote, the best part of my life was fake. And she says it was so much distraught. And then she gets into this big argument. She goes off on her own. And she says to Alexi, she goes, you have done nothing but told me how bored you were. I was the chore, the job you didn't want to do.

To me, you were everything. And that is such like a human emotion because I think like millions of people can like relate to having a father figure who can't do any, whether he was like a football star in high school or college or like he gets fired from his job. whatever being like so fixated on this past and feeling burdened by the family while you have this younger person being like to me you were everything and you're throwing away like I'm not enough like Yelina in that moment is like why wasn't I enough and that moment wasn't enough and then once he starts singing American Pyle's like oh shit they did the thing they did they got us but you know I'm gonna be thinking about Yelena as a character I think like I tend to I watch a movie movie. Like, I just saw this today for the first time, literally.

First reactions. And I find myself, like, I am thinking about Yelena and feeling that character. Because, I mean, talk about trauma, right? Like, you find out your family is a lie. And then you get put into a program where you have to do these things that continue this weird lie. And then ultimately gets brainwashed and then comes to even find out that. Like, you know, she's a 20-year-old, I don't know how old-year-old person who has to peel back all of these layers of like these illusions that have been foisted upon her. And like she has no way of knowing who she is right now.

Like, no way. Oh, and even the fact that she, when she, like, is talking to Natasha, she has this hurt on her face. Like, you went off to be an Avenger and, like, you left me behind. She has so much trauma about not only her, like, fake parents, not being a real parents, but this sister who earlier in the movie when she was young was about to kill some soldiers for her, leaving and making another family with the Avengers. And I think, though, really the thing that is kind of so smart when I watched it the second time around, and you're a musician, so I wanted to get your take on this, is that one thing that's so foundational to this movie is the song American Pie.

Yelana, when she's young, asked, Alexi, can you play the song? And this song, and correct me if I'm wrong, is about the death of kind of this certain American dream, this idea of rock and roll, and all of these rock stars dying, and America becoming kind of a more cynical place. And when you play that song,

it says a lot about Natasha and a lot about the family because they're leaving this American version behind. Melina, she says, when Alexi runs in, she's like, I don't want to leave. And he's just like, don't say that. But for Yelena, it is like this death of innocence. It's like that song is like the death of innocence of America. But for her, it's the death of her innocence as a human because she hasn't been to the red room before. Like Natasha knows what's going to happen. And I think that's why Natasha as a child gets so mad because she's just like, I don't want this to happen to my sister. She doesn't want,

she doesn't want Yelena to go through what she went through, which is also funny to me, Because in that first, I don't know if it was the very first scene, but Yelina hurts her knee. I think it's Molina that's like treating it. She says your pain only makes you stronger. That's another thing that Natasha says, and like Yelena says throughout the movie, that phrase is the thing that saved them.

Because Malina says at one point she's just like, how did they not take your heart? And she goes back to that line about pain making you stronger, which is a very toxic thing to say to a child. It is. And one thing, what I was noticing in that scene was that as Yelena's knee is getting treated, and this is before we know the full depth of what has happened, Natasha kind of side-eyes the mom while she's treating Yelena's knee.

Like, why is she babying her? Like, why is she, like, what is going on here? And it kind of, when you first see it, kind of just looks like some older sister, kind of like, what is going on there? but then to find out, right, like Natasha's coming into this knowing that like how they will be treated or how they have been treated

or what they're capable of being treated of is very different than this. But so to see the flip side of that when she's like, no, don't you guys are not taking her. Like she really wants Julina to be able to maintain that innocence even though she kind of felt some way about it a little earlier. Also, did you notice that

in the indoctrination of the family of them training the kids the TV show that they show them is duct tails. And I was just like, that is... That's so dark of like taking such a perfect cartoon showing it to these kids. If you were going to... Let's say that you were in charge of the red room.

Mike, you're too good of a person to be in charge of the red room. I got darkness in me. I can make... What TV show would you indoctrinate the kid? Like, in 2021, what would be the show? You're like, you need to watch this kids. Well, you know, it's funny that they show them ducttails because that's another show about these kids

with no parents. Right? Like, there's no parent in that situation. I'm thinking, like, show them something crazy like silver spoons. You know? I was going to, I thought you were going to say adventure time. I would show them adventure time. No, adventure time's too complicated for indoctrination. It's going to have them asking a bunch of questions and shit.

You don't want that. You want invisible, rich people and you want a big train going around the house. You want a black kid and a white kid. You know what I'm saying? Like, you just, oh, this is the dream. That's what you want to show them. See, I can do it. I can be evil.

Also, let's talk about one of my favorite characters in this whole thing. We're going to stay in Family Corner for a minute. What David Harper does with the Red Guardian team is so fucking brilliant. He was so good. Dad of the Year material, because there's this part in the movie where he's like, we can get to St. Petersburg. And Yolanda's like, no, we fucking can't. It's like, fine, whatever.

And like the helicopter crashes, they walk out. And it's one of my favorite parts of the entire movie where basically like Natasha and Yelina are so mad at him. They're just so fucking mad at him. And then he goes, like, what's your problem? Look at how I raised you. He's like to Yelina, he's like, you were the greatest child assassin.

He's like to Black Widow. He's like to Natasha, what are you complaining about? You're a fucking Avenger. He's like your ledgers are gushing with blood. And he's so, like, proud of them. And it's delivered so well. I think that that was perfect casting. What did you?

think of like David as the red garden? I think you selected the perfect scene because he's playing that like proud dad, but everything he's describing is raising supervillain kids. You know, like that's literally what he's like, I have raised you all as the perfect murderers. I am dad of the year takes a bow. Like it was absolutely incredible. It was fantastic. And I think, yeah, I think he did an awesome job. He was truly in a lot of ways the heart of the movie, the butt of a lot of the folks. But yeah, man, I just think, I think he did a fantastic job. Like, I would love to see more Red Guardian content. I hate when people do this, but fuck it. It's my podcast. It's your podcast. Fuck it. All right. So I already told you that I liked like the family vacation part of this

movie way more. And part of me was like, damn, wouldn't it? Like, why didn't they just like introduce all of like the Winter Guard? For those that don't know, that's like the rush version of the Avengers because one of the Easter eggs is like, did you notice this? You know when the Red Guardian is arm wrestling that guy? Yeah.

And the guy basically calls him out on his lie being like, how did you fight Captain America in the 80s, bro? He was still in the fucking ice. And then, like, he breaks his, like, hand. Right. And he calls him Ursa.

And he calls him a bear. And that's an Easter egg because one of the people in the Winter Guard is like, Ursa, this big mutant bear guy. And part of me was like, damn, like, as we're seeing in Loki, they're getting weird with shit. I'm like, we could have had a mutant bear in this.

We could have had, like, you know what I'm saying? We could have the winter garden this shit. Am I wrong? No, I mean, we absolutely could have. I don't know as much about them as I wish I did. So I can't help you imagine that. But I can certainly cheer you on instead of that sounds like cool ass shit. In this family vacation, like we got the whole family.

That was my favorite part. The whole time in this, I was like, dog, I wish Hawkeye was in this. I wish Hawkeye was like just sitting in on the family dynamic and be like, y'all fucked up. Like, just like missing his family. Like, I just like, like there was some points. I was like, oh, or like winter soldier. Like they bring up the winter soldier program because earlier on, that is like, that is basically like the little floppy disk. Oh, wait.

Also, before I go on, okay. The little floppy disk that, that they steal is from Hydra. Oh, word. That's like information. Like the way that they're controlling like the black widows is based on how they were like the whole Winter Soldier program and the stuff that they were doing on Bucky. A part of them was like, damn, it would be so fucking cool if the Winter Soldier was in this. It really would be. It really would be.

Yeah, they had them on deck, man. They should have just went ahead and pulled the trigger on that. But I also want to say this. I think it's also cool and somewhat thematically on point that they didn't include that stuff. because I think honestly, and I say this as a person who's dealt with a fair bit of trauma, trauma tends to make you compartmentalize. So it makes sense that she will go and have all of these adventures

on her fucking own and wouldn't involve anybody. And that also kind of informs maybe why she came back and didn't mention none of this shit. I agree. Like, actually, let's stay there for a minute. I think this is a movie and the MCU as a whole, especially like Wanda Vision. And even, I would even say Falcon and the Winters,

soldier and Loki. Honestly, all of them, this phase of the MCU is dealing with trauma. You know, Wanda's dealing with the loss of vision. You see Bucky and Sam dealing with the loss of cap, what it means to be like a black man who takes on the mantle. And Loki's dealing with this trauma of like, not only like, who am I? Can I be good? Can I change? But he's also dealing with his mom dying and learning that and all of these things. And I think in Black Widow, Natasha is dealing with this trauma of like she built this family with the Avengers and now they're they're taken away from her. She ran away from her past and now she's coming back to confront it. And then with Yelena, she's dealing with what does it mean when my whole family is fake?

And like how do you think that like the trauma in this movie worked? Did that work for you like thematically throughout me? Absolutely did. I mean, I think this is the most, I mean, Wanda Vision is close, but this is a very clear. example of somebody confronting trauma. I think when you look at how the relationship between Natasha and the killing of, is it Drake's Goff, Drake's off? Drakeoff, Drakeoff's daughter and how that plays into the movie in a very important way.

Like a lot of her motivation, a lot of Natasha's motivation is based on how she feels about having done that, how she feels about all the killing that she had to do. when she's talking to Yelena about it, she's like, oh, she was collateral damage. You can see in her eyes, like, she doesn't really feel that way. She feels like a human being. She doesn't feel like a murderer.

She doesn't connect with the part of herself that operated when she was brainwashed. And now she kind of has to sit with a lot of that. There's a lot of trauma in her old behavior that she has to contend with, and a lot of that is motivation for stuff that happens in this movie. No, I totally agree.

I think this is the perfect time to co to Florence and to do that Jomi, Steve, turn on your cameras. Oh, here we go. Here we go. I want to call out my man Jomey really quick. All right. Umar Johnson would be furious

with Jomey because I know he was thirsting over Florence Poo-Pew. That's so funny. He invoked Dr. Umar. I just want to set a record straight. I'm just going to say Zach Brath is the luckiest man. Jomey answer for your crimes here Listen listen

I respect Zach Brath I mean that's you know JD from Scroves you feel me So let me not disrespect The King But um Hey man Florence Pugh man

She was great Zoom doesn't go to 4K but you're certainly caught in it right now Dogggy you're sweet Listen it's I'm getting cooked right I can't lie, I'm getting cooked. She was great. I mean, from, you know, she was like, besides David Harvard,

she had a lot of the jokes. She had the running gag with the, with the pose. Oh, so good. And that scene, you guys talked about, you know, the family being like the heart of the film. That scene right at the table, you know, she's the one who's like, you guys are my family. You know, you're my mom and my sister, you know?

So she was fantastic. It did not help that she looked fantastic the entire film. you know. All right. So I brought Steve and Jomey because when the movie first dropped, we were in a group chat. So I want to bring the group chat to the podcast. I always got to air the messages now.

Okay. Was Florence Pugh the best part of this movie? Because I will say if I was Scarlett Johansen, when we were filming this, I'm like, God damn, like, when did this become the Florence Piers show? Like she dropped like 40 on Scarjo, for real. What I will say is that she did so well that I feel like the remaining MCU films will almost

reign in that performance. Like that Russian accent is going to be gone in two movies. It's gone. It's like that also I feel like they baked in that like they had American accents before because the next time we see her she's not rocking. They will want to max him off that accent for sure. 100%.

But like Mike, what does you think of Florence because I do think like she was the MVP easily of this whole fucking movie? Absolutely. But I also feel like it's designed that way. I feel like in a script, she's the most sympathetic character in by far. She was the baby

and the family and all of the dirty shit she did she was being brainwashed the entire time and as soon as she had her senses she was trying to do

right by people and I feel like that, you know, like that puts her in a position where you're going to be rooting for her the whole time

and not to mention she's roasting the poses and she's got all the jokes to everybody too. I mean, I think she was putting an

excellent position and she fucking nailed it. I will say also, I gotta be real. This felt like a backdoor pilot.

for for like Yelena as like the new black widow. 100%. It was just like, oh, like, y'all was just like, Scarjo, this whole movie's gonna be about you. And then like the writer's like, all right, we gotta make the audience fall in love with this new black widow. But also while I have Joe Me here and also Steve,

because Steve, if you listen to the Midnight Boys, he has some spicy takes. Okay, all right. I'm not gonna do this. I can't do this. All right, all right. All right, Steve, you can turn off your mic. All right, okay.

I thought you were one of the boys. I am. I just don't want to be too disparaging. I don't want to be too disparaging. I'm going to be real. Rick Mason in Black Widow? The only black dude in the whole movie? Oh my God.

He was simping after Scarlett Johansson, which I would do the same thing. I think, yeah, I think it's very understandable. You know? It's understandable. You can't blame him. I can't blame him. But the fact, he went out so fucking sad.

He, like, he barely got a peck on the cheek. My man was running out here, getting her quing jets. He got her a jet. And when he can return nothing. We know from experience that Black Weddow's not about it. Love is for children. She says that. That's true.

That's true. She's not here. And the last boy she simped over literally got on a jet and went to space, right? To get away. She's done. She's all tapped out. And man's homie shot his. She shot his shots, man.

He was shooting. He was shooting. And she just wasn't with it. Exactly. The whole movie I was like with Rick, I'm like, this man has gotten her a trailer, a truck. He's like sleeping in her bed. He gets her a helicopter.

He gets her a quingent. He drops every fucking thing for her. And it's so funny because like the whole movie, I was just like, dog, I'd do the exact same. I'm doing the exact same. Am I wrong, guys? No, you're not wrong. Not at all.

The audience is going to get so mad about me. But, yo, Steve, Show me. Thank you so much. I wanted to open up our private group chat for everyone. This is what we talked about immediately after. Thank you guys. I'm going to pull you guys in later. Open mic. Are you ready to put your hater cap on? Oh, wait. I never took it off. If there is any time that I'm going to roast this movie, a movie that I did enjoy, it is for what they did to Taskmaster. What I would call a character assassination. I think so.

Can you tell him about how badass Taskmaster is in every other iteration of him? Tony Masters, the Taskmaster in the comics, not only has insane abilities, right? Like the photographic memory, the ability to copy anybody's movements without, you know, technology. He just has to watch them, his powers, he just has to watch them once, and he can master them, whether it's Spider-Man Wolverine, whatever. He's like, I would say he is the equivalent of like the Marvel universe's Destrope. And on top of that, he talks mad shit while he's doing.

He is, he is like, he's like Deadpool levels of shit. And here's my thing, if we're going on to Deadpool. They made Taskmaster into the Wolverines origin version of Deadpool. Okay, see, I didn't see Wolverines origins. I still clear at a lot of those Fox X-Men movies. So in that, Ryan Reynolds, his mouth. Soan shot. Are you serious? The entire time?

Yeah, he doesn't say any. He's not like, he quips a little earlier in the movie, but he doesn't have his suit in that movie. He basically doesn't say shit once he becomes like Deadpool, Deadpool, it's just a complete character assassination. And the, the big fault that I have with this movie is I think the best Marvel, the best Marvel movies have great antagonists. Right.

Whether it's Thanos, whether it's Black Panther with killmonger, whether it's Avengers with Loki. The Rag and Rock with Hella. Well, yeah. You, like, you sympathize with the villains. You feel them. They have a charisma, too, typically. They have a charisma to get down with it.

And because they made Taskmaster in this movie Mute, I don't, I don't care. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's tough because I care in the way that you care about somebody that's been through some shit, you know? Yeah. And you want, you want them to be free of. that like so that kind of basic humanist care yeah but like do i care to see this character in another movie no because there's the thing in this movie like actually joe me like when i first saw it shout like told me about this so shout out joey so back in avengers when loki is having a

discussion with um with black widow he brings up drakehoff's daughter and that is the impetus to make Drakow's daughter in this taskmaster. So in this movie, we've already went over it. But one of the things that Black Widow has to do to defect from the Red Room and to join Shield is to kill Drakow. And the way she does that is by following this daughter, blowing her up, whatever. It's like a means to an end. And they make Drakov's daughter taskmaster. But in this, instead of like in the comics where he's very talkative, he's very kind of just like making fun of the heroes, kicking ass.

she's mutantness. And there was points in the movie, like the first fight with Taskmaster. I don't know about you. I was like, oh shit. It's like, it's happening. She's like, she's studying Black Panther. She's studying Hawkeyes.

She's doing Captain America moves. But I think that was undercut by the fact of like, she didn't have a motivation. Like this Taskmaster didn't really have a motivation in this. She was just like a means to an end. Is that fair to set? Yeah, I think it is because a lot of this movie deals with characters that are doing things because they've been programmed to.

And I think this taskmaster was like the ultimate manifestation of that, somebody who's complete, like they no longer have a self because they have been completely rebuilt with the one mission to be a killing machine. And what I don't get about the writing of it is like, you could have easily made this into someone who's like, as a child was targeted by Black Widow. You could still have made this character witty, wry, humorous, but also had this bloodthirst to be like,

I want to kill Black Widow because Black Widow tried to kill me as a kid and now she's running off. She's a celebrity. She's an Avenger. She gets to have this life that I was robbed of. You could have easily done that instead of making like Taskmaster

just this mute. And one thing I actually wanted to bring back up is like Yelena says this thing that I find very interesting. She says when they're in this gas station and she's making fun of like Black Widows posing and like she can, She keeps calling her a poser.

She says, Why do you, why do you always do this? Yes, exactly. She says, I'm not the killer that little girls call their hero.

And that to me was like one of the best lines of the movie because it deals with what does it mean to be a hero in the MCU? Because we have the symbol of the ledger.

Everybody keeps bringing up the ledger, like how many names do you have on your ledger. How many, how bloody is it? How many people have you killed? And a lot of Black Widows' impetus for joining Shield and everything is trying to clear her ledger. It's trying to make up for all of these people that she killed as part of being in the red room. And I think Yelena is on the opposite side of that is being like, hey, no matter how much good you do, you still kill these people. You're no different

than me. We are both killers. What did you feel about how like Yelena is kind of like the opposition to Natasha being like, actually, yeah, you save the universe a couple of times, but you still killed people. I do think that she was rightly persecuting and pressing Natasha on this idea of identity, right? Like on the fact that Natasha gets to Gallup Man with the superheroes is seen as a celebrity and somehow feels like she gets to divorce herself from her past while Yelena is still living in it, while there's still a very active widow program that Natasha acts like she completely stopped because she killed Drake off. And she didn't even bother to confirm that she did that.

You know, so I think there was a lot of very righteous taking Natasha to task for all of that stuff. And it'll be really interesting to see going forward whether or not Yelena embraces the opportunity that she's clearly going to have to live that kind of celebrity hero life too. when it comes up later. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services,

plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. service is not available in all areas. This episode is brought to by Nass Energy, introducing new Nass Energy Grand Prix Guava for those that want to be fueled up and fired up

with a hundred-bound hour tropical tasting power. Ignite your taste, start your engine, shift your flavor to high gear with new Nass Energy Grand Prix Guava. Hit the street, grab a can and get after it. Do you have a segment in a show where you poke stupid holes and things? We don't, but we can have now.

Before we go to a wards corner, let's poke some holes in things. Okay, I have a little list here. Okay, let's do it. Young Natasha had blue hair in 1995. I don't believe it. I don't believe that at all. Oh, talk about it. I don't believe it.

I don't think that that's what would have happened. When Taskmaster rolled up on Natasha, I believe he shot a missile at her. Did she have the missile just on top of the van? Was she driving around with the missile? with a van with a missile on it? I didn't even think about that. Wait, can I poke one hole? Please, please.

This is a big hole. This is the hole. I was going to save this. All right. Did you watch the Stinger at the end? Yes, of course. Valentina comes back. And she basically goes,

like, Yelana is at Black Widow's grave. And she hands her an iPad and basically gives her a mission. Like, this is the person. Hawkeye is the person who is responsible for Black Widow's death. Mm-hmm. how the fuck does Valentina know what the fuck happened on Vormir

Jomey put on your mic put on your camera can you talk to me because we're both mad about this I was thinking about that too I'm like right dude she got Vormir Intel that's that's wild it's like there's no way Jomi like you were really mad about this

explain why this is wild it's not only that if we go back to Wanda Vision there's a scene with Jimmy Wu Darcy and a Monica Rambo. And they're just like, yeah, Captain Marvel did this.

Scarlet Witch did this at the battle in endgame. And I'm like, who is snitch? Like, at what point did someone go, yeah, man, here's what happened. I'm sure none of the Wakandan spoke. None of the people from the sanctums across the world spoke. Dr. Strange ain't to nobody. Was Hawkeye do impressed? Like, I don't understand.

Like, who told them to play by play? I understand like, you know, the story stuff, you know, it gets out. But like, who was talking? Well, you know what? If I may jump in here, Jomi, real quick, she could be, she could, she could just be doing, pulling all these strings, fake newsing them just to get people on their side. She's manipulating all these things. But how she knows about Vormier is my thing?

Who is talking about Vormier? She knows a whole bunch of stuff. I think, I think we got to, we got to look out for what's going on to Daily Bugal at this point, man. You know, I know, Nick Fury is, Nick Fury is in a space station. working with aliens for right now. I'm pretty sure that we could find out about other planets where soul stones are. Who can T-D?

Cut Steve's mic, all right? You can't do that. I'm running the switches here. We're not blowing holes. This isn't fucking Dunkirk, Steve. All right? We're poking holes in the fucking ship. Oh, Mike, what's the next hole?

My last hole is this red room was in a tower in the sky. Did it? I would assume it touched the ground at some point. I would assume the bottom of this was on the ground. How did nobody ever run up on this building? Yes. Wait, also, can we just talk? You brought up a good point. Before we get into Wards Corner, I want to bring this up. Does Black Widow have a third act problem? I was in love

with this movie. Okay, okay. The whole lead up to like everything. The minute they go into the sky, I was just like, I just started like getting a headache when she's like talking to Dreykov. Yeah. I don't like, yo, yo, that fight? that I can't even call it a fight where she's just like letting Drake off punch her in the face a whole lot. I didn't like that at all. That was triggering, man.

And we're not in Taskmaster Corner anymore but even the Taskmaster, I don't even want to call it fight with the Red Guardian. I'm like, this is all we get and then they put Taskmaster in jail. I was just like, ugh. That is probably where I was just like the movie, if I had to ding it points, it kind of falls apart in the third act.

This is something that happens with a lot of MCU movies where I was just like too much going on. I think honestly it happens with most movies that have what I would call an unusual premise, right? Like when it gets to trying to resolve everything, it usually kind of misses the mark. So I think I've learned to be a lot more lenient

about that personally. But this movie certainly had some feelings when it came to that last act. All right. So we're going to go, we're going to talk about a lot of this in awards corner. We're going to go into awards corner. Steve, like, if you can play some stock awards music, that would be great right now,

like some strings like some. We're in awards corner for Black Widow. Most fun bit or joke. I have mine, but I want you to go first. I got to do one we already cover, but it's it's Elena's whole deal with. Natasha's poses all through the movie to the point where later on in the movie, Elina does one of her own to see what it feels like and she's like,

nah, dog, this ain't me. But I also think that they're playing a dangerous game with this. Because now anytime somebody does the superhero pose from this point after, we're all going to be looking at his side of it. Wait, because they did that joke. And then when they go to rescue Alexi, Black Widow does the pose again. I was like, she did it.

It was like the Leonardo. of a caprio meme. I was like, you know? All right, so I'm going to go for my favorite bit because it was not only funny,

but it was an emotional scene that made me like, be like, give me a, like, give me a, like, a,

show me a movie, I don't give a fuck, give me everything. It was the vest scene. It was when, like, oh, yeah. When she's in the car,

she's talking about the vest and she's so proud. It's like when your boy who don't got a lot of style, but like he got his like tax return back and he was like, That's like, he got his first piece of off-white, and he's so proud to show you,

even though it was from last season. And she's, like, so proud of her vest. She's like, it has so much, he throws so many poor kids. It's great. She does all these modifications. And then she does something that is like, it's funny, but it was like one of the most emotional things. I don't know why I got so emotional when she says this.

But she says, I've never had control over my own life before. And now I do. And the vest is the first act in her. her own life that she feels like a decision, there's a decision that she made on her own. It's like so emotionally important. I'm going to get, if everybody,

if the listeners get mad at me, fine, but I'm going to get a little emotional right now. I don't know about you, Mike, but like before I was a podcast or before I thought, it was all a dream. Before that,

my first job out of college, I was working social media for like a sneaker company. And I had saved up all my money. and I think I had bought like the first Yeezys. I ran, like these are like the Adidas Yeezys, like the low tops. And I ran to the person like in the factory, whoever, who was making purchases. And I'm like, all right, yo, like, this is my one favor.

Can I buy these Yeezys? You know what I'm saying? And they're like, you want these ugly shoes? Who's going to fucking want these? They didn't even know what they had. And I was just like, I'll buy them. Like, can I just buy them like just for like box price? They're like fucking sure.

No one's even asked about these. And I got these easies. And those yezies were the ones. I never wore them, but I would always like go back in my Philly apartment and look at them. Like this was the first thing as an adult I had bought that I had wanted and I had coveted.

And then I had to make a choice. I had to make a fucking choice. I wanted to move to fucking New York and I didn't have the money to do it. And I had all these sneakers. And that was the one that I had to resale to fucking get to New York. Like I had gotten like a thousand,

like a thousand, $1,500 to get my first. apartment in New York. And I felt like Yelena in that fucking moment. But when Yelena said that, it brought me back to that time when you're like, you're an adult and you buy this first thing for yourself. And a lot of times it's clothing. And sometimes you don't even have to wear it. It's just like it's your agency. It's a symbol of like, this is a thing that I want and I've coveted and I'm going to hold on to it. I wish I could get those easy. When I was in seventh grade, when I first got an allowance, I say, I was getting like, it was like $7.50 a week,

It was $15 every two weeks. It was nothing, right? I saved up, I saved up $56 to buy a Jerbo shirt, okay? Whoa. To buy a fucking Jabot shirt. And yo, I was horse playing or something in a classroom after the teacher was gone. I snagged my Jabot shirt on a paper cutter. Oh, shit.

I've never been sadder in my damn life. How much did the Jabot shirt cost? $56. It costs $56. Exactly. $56. God, damn, this is the sad. We are getting so sad.

This was supposed to be uplifting. We were supposed to be awarding stuff. But this is what the awards are for. Right. All right. What was the most to you, the most interesting reveal? Interesting reveal. Okay, this doesn't really count as a reveal, but I want to say it anyway.

When they walked into the red room and there was that room full of widows practicing the black widow sweep. I thought that was so ill And guess what it reminded me of Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation Somebody should put that music Over that scene That'll be beautiful It's gonna be beautiful

This is why we have you on the show Like now if I watch the movie again I'll never be able to unfucking see that shit Dogg like now What was the most interesting reveal Of this This is also not a very interesting reveal This is another thing that fucking made me mad

when Yelena in the Stinger goes back, Yelena goes back to visit Black Widow's grave and that she is in Ohio. And it's not like a big, like, a big, like, this is like a hero that has saved the whole fucking universe, the timeline. It's just a little, little like gravestone. I was just like,

y'all have done Black Widow goddamn so dirty. I was just like, she deserves like a fucking monument in Washington. Absolutely. What the fuck are we doing? should have a statue at least. Also, what did they bury? Because their body is the bottom of a damn pit. I have no idea.

Maybe, I don't know. That is actually a very good point. All right. Best action scene. I feel like, oh, no. Yeah. It's, it's Yelena and Natasha fighting in the Budapest apartment.

Fucky. Hey, bro. The ragdoll physics in that fight were incredible how, like, Natasha's body would hit one side of the doorframe and then the other and then kind of like. Or they're like, she had something. And I'm like, she would have a broken back, guys. Yeah.

Yeah. But I thought that fight was incredible. I had seen it. This is, this isn't, I agree, that is my choice. But if we had to pick a runner up, I do think the set piece where they're getting chased down by Taskmaster, it got spoiled because I had seen it in so many trailers. But basically when like Yelena like opens the door fucking kicks that shit, I was like, oh, God, this is fucking amazing.

But I do agree with you. Natasha versus Yelena is by far the best action team. So I'm gonna like we have a list of awards. I'm gonna go off the grass. We have two more. Who gets the horny award? What does that mean exactly? You gotta tell me exactly which way I should interpret that.

Uncontrollable horniness. Like just be like relaxed, take a fucking cold shower. We've talked about in the movie. In the movie because I have a pick right now when the Red Guardian, he was like, he's like, yo, I got a lot of energy, bro. I just got out of prison. Yo, man's been in the pen.

And he's been in the pen. I have to give it to him. Like, because he also, like, puts it, he puts on his, like, his old superhero costume. Oh, yeah. Just to show. To show his, like, old John, like, I still got it. She's like, you're fat, but you still look good, my mom. Right.

Right. Malina, give it to you straight, man. Melina give it to you, tell you, you fat. Like, she'll be like, oh, I'm sorry. I already called the red room. She named her pig. But here's the thing. She named her pig.

On some, like, on some, like, you still got feelings for me. She's, she named the pig gap for my man. So she's, like, She's like, you could still get it. Like after this mission. That's right. Actually, I'm going to give, I'm going to award it to two people. I'm going to award it to the Red Guardian and I'm going to reward it to Malita because they were, they were giving each other the eyes the whole time.

Yeah, man. You know what it's like to go back and get something you can have before, you know. It used to be special. That's usually still good. It's usually still good. The last award, the most important award, who gets the MVP award for Black Widow? We got to go, Florence. Poo, Poo, Poo, Poo, Poo, Poo, Poo, Poo, Poo, Poo, Poo,

Lawrence, we gotta do it. There's no, I don't actually think there's any competition. What she does throughout this whole movie, she's running laps around Scarlet Johanson, nothing against Scarlet Johanson. I love her. But like the way like Florence Pew within one movie makes you fall in love with like her character,

her strife, everything emotionally she's going through. Like I want to see her as Black Widow now. She has to be able to. I mean, I don't. think there's any way around it. And again, I think the script did her a ton of favors. It really made her sympathetic in a way that is hard to do, but she absolutely nailed it, 100%. All right. So we're at the point now. We're wrapping up this podcast, but I want to talk about legacy.

I have a couple questions about the legacy of the MCU, Black Widow, everything. So if you could predict, we'd like to predict on the show, where do you think, Black Widow, Yelena is going now. Well, okay, so she's going to be working for Valentina, or she has been working for Valentina, and she's clearly ready to stop working for Valentina. And we don't know, we don't necessarily know what Valentina's role is or who, because she's not Hydra, right? Like, it's, she's not Hydra.

She's some type of organization. I have a feeling about where they're going with that. I don't. I really don't. I know that eventually she'll be a hero, and it seems like eventually she will take that black widow mantle, whether or not that goes all the way into the Avengers. I can't really be sure at this point.

I think if I had to say, I think she most likely will show up in Hawkeye, the Disney Plus series that's going to introduce Kate. You know, Clinton is going to be in it as well. But like I've been saying for any, like I've been from the tops. I'm like, we got USAG and out here. we got Black Widow, we're either getting like a Thunderbolts

or a Dark Avengers type of things. You know what I'm saying? Like, Seymot was still out there. We got Ross. And Ross is so fed up with the Avengers. Yeah, it's either a Dark Avengers. Like, I wouldn't be surprised of like Captain America for is like Captain America

the Dark Avengers or like Captain America Thunderbolts of like him having to make his secret Avengers squad with like Bucky and a few other people and like having to go against these Dark Avengers. That's what I actually think I would want. She might even show up in Young Avengers. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if like the MCU, what they do is like, all right, everybody gets Avengers.

We have Secret Avengers. We have Dark Avengers. We have Young Avengers for everyone. That's what it seems like it goes. It does. We have plenty of heroes and plenty of people sharing mantle. So there's a lot of ways it seems like they could go. Now, Kevin Feige has talked about that there might be more prequels.

what prequels would you want to see what prequel would I want to see in the MCU? What is most interesting to me? Dang, so I'm thinking about Wanda and I'm thinking about wanting to see more stuff with like her and Pietro maybe when they're being experimented on. I don't know what else was really going on

with them at that time in their lives, but I think that could be something I could be real interested in seeing. All right. So this is, I'm like, I'm super ultra cheating right now, but you're such an X-Man fan. I don't give a fuck. This is the midnight.

This is our podcast. Let's go. I would love if I was redoing the X-Men. I would love if they did a prequel film that was all about the original five. Cyclops, Gene Gray, Iceman, Beast, Angel. It wouldn't be the first movie. We would have another movie, but that would be the movie where we go back to just those foundational people.

like it would be almost like a Harry Potter type film. Like they're all in school figuring out how to be whatever. The first film that we would get would be like the introduction. You know, like what was the issue where it was like they introduced everyone? It was like Wolverine, Colossus. Oh, giant size X-Men. That would be if I was doing the MCU, that would be my first one. We would do giant-sized X-Men rescuing the original squad from Krakawa.

Hey, man, look, I'm going to go back. I'm going to throw my answer out the window. because I want to see these things that you're talking about. I want to see these X-Men. But still, like, I'm going to cheat with you now because that's what I want to see. What would your X-Men film? I'm going giant-size. I would do a giant-sized X-Men film as my first one and then introduce, like, the Gene Grace,

everybody else during the prequels. That's my first film. Which one would be your first film? That's a smart way to do it. Gosh, it's so tough because a lot of these X-Men, especially the ones that they're going to need to introduce immediately. These are grown adults. So you have that problem, right?

Like, are they just around somewhere hiding now? Do they need to be introduced interdimensionally? Like, how do you do it? And in that sense, it does kind of make sense to kind of go back and introduce characters first, the young ones? I don't know, man. It's real confusing. I don't envy Kevin Faggy for this problem. I don't envy him.

This is a tough position to be in to have these million-dollar properties that don't make sense to include logically because you've established a universe for 20 years already. Here's a thing. Here's our last question. I think if we looked at like the MCU, not in the traditional tiers, but like ranking them in tears. I think there's like there's the first tier. I'm talking about Black Panther, Infinity War, Winter Soldier. I would say there's another tier.

I don't want people to yell at me. In the second tier, I would probably put like, what would I put in the second tier? like Avengers or a different lower tier. You're putting it, Iron Man 2. Joe me, Steve, they're going to get mad at me. I'd put Iron Man 2 in there. I'd put the Dark World in there. Where are we situating Black Widow?

I mean, look, I just watched it this morning, and I liked it. So I'm willing to put it second tier. But something tells me, something tells me, I'm going to watch it again, and I'm not going to necessarily feel the same way about it. But fresh off the presses, I think it's a good movie. Like, I think the taskmaster situation, even that is only a problem because I have prior comic

book knowledge. If I didn't, I wouldn't care, you know? And if I could take that away as a big hole, then I really don't have any problem with the movie, you know? Like, there's nothing about the movie that it is inherently bad. So I'd have to put it to second tier. fans don't get mad at me don't get mad at me I really did like this movie I like when I walked out of the theater

I really liked it upon rewatch it got dinged a little I think because I have to judge the movie as it was when it came out everything I've watched I think it's towards the bottom and that has nothing to do with the quality of the movie I think the movie in a vacuum is a good movie I just think that like the stakes weren't high enough. And when I left it, I did leave with this feeling of like, I enjoyed it, but what was the point? Is this movie too late? Like, this movie should have come before Captain Marvel. This should be the first, like, woman-led MCU movie. It should have come before Captain Marvel,

for sure. It should have, like, this, like, they should have given Scarlett Johansson, her own solo movie. Like, that, like, Fige, like, he has done a brilliant job. But if there was, like, one kind of, like, if there was, like, something on his ledger that he fucked up, this was it, where I feel like if I had gotten this movie around the same time that I was getting like Captain America Winter Soldier. Civil War, yeah. Civil War or whatever. Like, I actually think it would have been better. But because like this is coming after like infinity war and end game, we see like the end of the universe, I got to ding it a little bit. But you know what? I think in in some way speaking to that point, it is helped by the fact that it has been so long since those

movies came out. True. Well, I will ask you this as an MCS. you fan. I do think that the one thing that you could ding the MCU on now is because we got like universe shattering Infinity War end game it's really hard to set these stakes

and I've liked the Disney Plus shows I've liked Black Widow, I've liked Spider-Man but I would say the one knock against them is like once you see Endgame, once you see Infinity War it's hard to go back. Honestly I think one of the big things for me

that I struggle with in, let's say, Wanda Vision, let's say Falcon and Winter Soldier, you feel like people should be more affected by what happened, with the snap, with the blip, with all of it. You feel like it should have a lingering effect on human psychology, not just with the heroes that fought the battle, but just with people, you know? And I don't see enough of that.

We saw a little bit of that in Wanda Vision because we saw people blip back, you know, but just, and this is just at me as a person who, like, it's really a tune or is interested in psychology. That's the one thing that kind of doesn't add up for me. So, like, we had those stakes. And I feel like with those stakes and with the things that happened, we should be, see more of a palpable effect on people than what we see. We're going to end on that because that was an amazing point. And I want to say one thing before we leave. If you haven't listened to the Loki episode,

this is the part where I get serious. Van Lathen, my brother, my fellow Midnight Boy, has gone through just something devastating, losing his father. And when we were, like, behind the scenes, figuring out, should we do the show,

how do we do the show without him? Van is, van is just instrumental to everything we do. He's a leader. He's the guy we look to. He's our Captain America. It was really, really tough. So not only do I miss Van,

But when we're thinking about the show, we're like, we have to invite somebody on, we can give us that same energy. And like, it's not easy for Open Mike to come in here and to take that seat and to be gracious and, like, of his time, he's a very busy man. So I want to say thank you to you, Mike, for, like, giving us this gift. Because we're all sad for Van, but, like, I, like, I really just, I'm honored that you are, like, you are here. It's, like, it's going to make me cry.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. And big love to Van, like, Van, Van is one of the more. talented broadcaster podcasters that walk to earth man.

So like, you know, I'm, I'm here without even the chance to fill his shoes. So I just, I appreciate, I appreciate being invited on the show and, and thanks for letting me nerd out a little bit, man.

Oh, man, anytime. You're invited back anytime. And I want to say a special shout out because if you guys haven't listened to our previous, Oakey episode. My man Jomey, my man Steve, Alman, our producer, they step in. That is an amazing episode. Thank you guys for rocking it on social. Thank you guys for helping edit this episode. Thank you so much to TD. He's also stepping in as well, and he's always here. Thank you to TD as well.

And thank you to you guys, the fans. I know this is a little bit different of a midnight boys than you usually get, but we're trying our best. And I thank you guys for sending all of your positive words to Van and still rocking with us, we will be back very, very soon. But here on the Midnight Boys, for some reason, we have gotten to the point where they make me do a poem, they make me do a haiku at the end of all these shows. I feel made you. He says, make you. I have like one of the best rappers alive here and I'm like, fucking goddamn, I have to do this shit and it has to be off the top of the dome. But don't judge me too much, Mike. This is my point where I, where we do the thing, all right? This is coming off the top of the

We had a new Midnight boy here. My girlfriend and me are talking about adopting a Beagle. Jomi is thirsting after Florence Pugh, but the MVP of this show is fucking open Mike Eagle. I've solved the taskmaster problem. I beat the case, right? See, it's not a person. It's a program, right?

It's a suit. Oh, shit. I see. So she could ditch the suit. You know what I'm saying? And somebody could happen across it. You know, the red room info gets out. Just like at the end of Winter Soldier, when all that info came out, and Barron's email was like,

ooh, what's this? Somebody could pick up the taskmaster shoot. Maybe some guy named, I don't know, Tony Master, comes out, gets the, the taskmaster armor and is the new taskmaster and they're quippy and they they copy everybody's moves i'm just saying it's not it's not impossible it's not impossible mantles can be shared that's what we like this i actually i fuck with this joey jomey's been smoking a little weed with his camera came back with an amazing take i fucking like this let's fucking go let's read the taskmaster good job joe you see it there we go no problem