The Ringer-Verse - Breaking Down 'Morbius' | The House of Midnight

Episode Date: April 4, 2022

The House of Midnight assembles to discuss the latest Sony Marvel film 'Morbius' and what all the blood-sucking commotion is about (04:34). They break down some of what went right and what went wrong with the key characters (43:41). Then they take a look at what lies ahead in the film's post-credits stingers (69:09). Hosts: Mallory Rubin, Joanna Robinson, Van Lathan, and Charles Holmes Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Dave Chang and Chris Ying. We are the hosts of Recipe Club. You may have listened to it before, but we are now back on the air, new and improved, with the same host that lose every week. I still don't know what the rules are because they've changed as well. Chris, can you give a quick run now? Every week, we debate the best way to cook the things you want to eat. We take a user, listener submitted recipe, and we all cook it with our friends,

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tune in to Recipe Club where he will not follow the recipe. I'm contractually obligated to make this podcast. But I'm here to have a good time. So listen to Recipe Club every week on the Ringer Podcast Network. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

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This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Colehouser returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning and Ed Harris, now streaming on Paramount Plus.

You need a doctor? I am a doctor. I should have died years ago. People all over the world have my disease. I'm here. To find a cure. We have to push the boundaries, take the risks. If you're going to run, do it now.

And welcome into the ringerverse here on the ringer podcast network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure. to invite you not only to Horizon Labs, but also to join us on the ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. And friends, today it's a fandom event. It's a special one. We could only face Morbius together,

and so it is a full House of Midnight team-up pod. Here today, now that they have finished conducting their experiments on international waters, It's the Midnight Boys, Van Lathen and Charles Holmes. And House of ours, Joanna Robinson. Oh, hi. Hey, team. Hey, Mal.

All right, we have so much to get to. But before we do, a few quick programming reminders, as always, we've got the blood cooler to wait into here shortly. It's not just Morbius season. It is, of course, also moon night season. And we've got episode two breakdowns coming up. On Wednesday, the Midnight Boys will be back with their instant reaction to Moonnight episode two.

And on Friday. It's fine. It's instant. We forgot. House of our will return with an episode to deep dive. You can follow all of that

by following the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, follow the ring of verse across our many social feeds, including now TikTok. And of course,

last reminder. As always, bear in mind, friendly neighborhood spoiler. Morning. Today's podcast will feature plot details from Sony's Morbius, as well as some chatter about Marvel Comics canon and myriad MCU and Sony superhero movies. It's all on the table if there's any connection to this film or these characters.

So proceed with caution. Proceed with more caution than Nicholas did when visiting Milo's apartment. All right. Team. Co-host, colleagues. friends. It's time. It's time to talk about Morbius, which came out on April 1st, April Fool's Day. Tight hour 44, directed by Daniel Espinoza. Opening box office is in, because we're here on Monday morning. 39.1 million domestic. Compare that to Venom Let There Be Carnage's 90 million

opening weekend hall, if you'd like some context there. International for Morbius, 44.9 million, a global opening weekend of 84 mil. Let's check in. Doesn't tell us everything we need to know, but as a little barometer, rotten tomatoes. Critical score right now is 17% pals. That's a one and a seven. 17%.

The audience score is 70%. Any thoughts on the opening weekend box office or the critical consensus before we move into our respective expectations and impressions? Critics lost their mind. I see people on the TL. This is how you know that we've just like

have gone astray as a culture when there are critics be like, don't be mean to Sony's film pile movie. Please let's be positive. Like I see multiple people defending the honor of Morbius. I'm like, guys, it's all right.

Like we can all lick our wounds. It's okay. It'll be fine. Is that a thing that's happening? Oh, it's seen. I haven't seen that at all. I've seen some critics on the TL. I've seen some reputable publications

writing a, you guys judged Morbius before it even came out. And I'm like, hard. So here's the thing about Charles, guys. That's not really a thing that's happening. Charles is like a Michael Jordan guy to where in order for him to be who he is, he has to create an enemy in his own head.

Charles has to wake up and remember people who slighted him when he was an undergrad, he was in high school, for him to generate this type of like kinetic energy towards, a take. And the reality is the opposite is happening with Morbius. Well, I feel like it's happening. Number one, I feel like the first weekend hall was respectable. And I expected it to be respectable. It's not great.

It's respectable. I expected it to be respectable because had trouble finding tickets to the movie on a Thursday night. So, you know, there are other films. There's a lie. It's not true. It's not a lie at all. I can bring Kaleke in right now. If you want me to scream her name, she'll come in here and she'll corroborate the fact that we were in a semi-packed theater. Well, not semi-packed, ours was packed.

And then we couldn't get tickets to the one after that because it was already full. So I expected some people to go out and see the movie. Number two, we're going to talk about the fact that there is some, to me, credence or truth to the fact that there is a morbidous pain train that to me is a little unwarranted with how many people are hating on the movie. I'll be honest with you.

I think it's a little unwarranted. That's all I'm going to say. Joe, any thoughts on the box office? opening for Ye Old Morbius before we get into our respective feelings about the film? I mean, so I went to go see Morbius for a second time on Saturday,

completely empty theater. I've heard a lot of stories of people in completely empty theater. So, like, yes, like, Vans right that it did slightly better than I expected. So you can't say it bombed the box. It was number one this weekend, right? Like, it was number one at the box office. So it wasn't a bomb

per se, but I'll be curious to see if it drops precipitously in week two. I don't think it's going to be a grower, is what I will say about Morpius, given the word of mouth. But it's also not a shower. It's neither.

But yeah, Charles is right too. In that, some reputable critics did like it. My old colleague Richard Lawson Vanity Fair gave it a positive view because he liked the pulpiness of it. We're going to get into whether or not we liked it, but it's not a zero percent of Rotten Tomatoes. Those movies do exist.

It's not a single digit on Rotten Tomatoes. Cotton Tomatoes, those movies do exist. So there are some people who found something, some people I might even respect, some people even maybe on this podcast that found something to love in this awful movie. Richard Lawson. Richard Lawson,

Beyonce's mom's husband? No, no relation. Beyonce's mom's husband loved Morbius. Beyonce's mom's husband loved Morbius. Bianca Lawson's dad was the biggest Morbius fan. Interesting. All right. Let's set a little context for everybody before we share our feelings on the film.

Expectations. What was everybody's expectation and, like, hype level for the film heading in? And as part of that, we have to remind everybody that the heading in period for Morbius covers a wide swath of our lives. This movie was originally supposed to come out in the summer of 2020. It has been delayed so many times. The trailers came out. The trailers came out. They came out again.

They were different. Not unique for things that are not in the trailer. That are in the trailer should not be in the final film. But this is like a different movie than the one that was initially teased in many respects. Were you excited for this movie? And panty back even further, do you have any connection or investment in Morbius as a character? in comics canon inside of a perspective

cinematic shared universe is morbius a character that you were excited to spend time with. Yeah. Charles, just look, you're going to ruin things,

all right? I didn't say anything. I didn't say anything. You're already, you should be looking at your wounds. Hey, can it, all right? Look at my wounds.

I've come back more powerful, okay? I've been studying the dark arts since I've seen the movie. All right, so look, so yes, I'll tell you why. I want to see Morbius, because I don't have very much connection to Morbius in the comic books,

but I like all kooky weird characters to get their shine. You know, I think that to me, we're to the top levels of fandom when Morbius gets a movie. It's easy to make a movie about Batman and Superman. You have to make a movie about Spider-Man every five years or you'll lose Spider-Man. But we're to where we want to be with Morbius getting a movie. This gives me hope for like Squirrel Girl. You know what I mean? I love her.

She's great. This gives me hope for all the characters to me that you have to love comics to love. And Morbius is pretty much one of those characters. It's not a character for the casuals, you know? Cookey vampire appears in Spider-Man first. After he appears in Spider-Man becomes a Blame villain. We've gotten a lot of Blade movies.

We've never gotten Morbius. That tells you something about Morbius. the fact that we've got three blade movies, No Morbius tells you that Morbius wasn't a character that they really felt like

they could bring to the big screen at that point. Like there's a little too much going on there, right? But now he's there. He's cool. So as far as my expectation is going in, we all expected the movie

to be a big steamy pile of dog shit. Of course. Like they had talked about the movie had, this is the worst buzz of any film that I can remember, especially in this space, I haven't heard buzz.

Well, actually, no. The only buzz that was worse was new mutants probably. And new mutants held it down as far as being what it is. We've seen some trouble productions in fandom in the last five years, and it's something we don't really talk about that much. But there have been some of movies that just have not gotten it right. And Morbius seemed destined to fail based upon everything that was going on with it. I have no connection to Morbius in the comics.

I've read a few sort of since the last couple weeks, but previously I had no expectations around that. I do, however, love like a gonzo Geroletto performance, you know, in the right context. And so, like, I thought maybe that might be enough to carry me through. I also have, like, a fondness, you know, I watched a lot of really shit B movies in the 90s. And I thought this, like, level of, like, Wishmaster Cheese could pull me through on something like Morbius. I feel like they needed more of that. if it had been even more

maybe I would have enjoyed it more so that's getting not the question you asked you asked me about expectation and I guess it hangs almost entirely around Jared Leto and like what he is capable of what I want to work with the man

no because I'm certain that he sent like a dead vampire bat to Matt Smith on the set of this movie like I'm certain that he did that but like but I occasionally enjoy the extreme fruits of his labor

So, yeah. I am going to disagree with my illustrious colleague, Van, where he said this is the height of fandom when we're getting a Morbius movie. And this to me is a sign that something along the way went very, very, very wrong. Because I was just like, oh, yeah, we're getting a movie about a Spider-Man villain that's not even top five. I wouldn't even say he's top ten. Like, Morbius, my emotional connection to him was the animated Spider-Man TV show where he could, he

could it be a real vampire. So they put suckers on his hands. And that's how he used his powers. I was just like, a morbius movie. What, like, where did we get in the universe where, like, if you're like, all right, we're getting a venom movie. I'm like, all right, cool. Yeah, there's a lot of people wear Venom shirts.

Venom's cool. Like, I get venom. If somebody's just like, you know what we need a movie of? That vampire dude from the Spider-Man comics that no one really likes that much. And Jared Letto is going to be in it. I'd be like, I was just like, I don't know. if this deserves to exist. And I will tell you whether it does,

when I tell you my thoughts on the movie. I just want to let you know, Charles, if that's the way you feel, you're going to be a bummed out dude here going forward because we're running out of A-listers, we're running out of B-listers, we're running out of C-listers. Okay, we're running out.

We're running out of people. Just let you know. Yeah, I would only disagree with Charles's point in that, like, largely Charles and I are aligned. on this movie, but I would disagree in that that was the whole thing around the, when they launched the MCUs at Marvel Studios in 2008,

they were supposedly had the B-Lister's. Like, they had the shitty lesser characters and they made something amazing. So you can make something amazing out of the least popular characters. They just didn't happen to do that this time, I think. And I think it's easier

to be honest with you. I think that Robert Downey Jr.'s performance as Iron Man was, I think, one of the reasons why it was revelatory was because he could do anything with the character that he wanted to do. There was no template for how you played Iron Man. So if you want to be a... Tony Stark has been through many iterations,

but he's really never been as Robert portrayed him, not really. So if you want to be a wise-cracking, quippy sort of millionaire douchebag, you could do that. That's something that you can't really do with Bruce Wayne. You can't do it with, like, Clark Kent. You can't do that with these characters that are these same archetypes that we've known for such a long, long time. like and so in these these lesser known characters

they're up to any expectations. All right, but let's let's be real. Let's be real with that. There is a tier. There's a difference in tier of character between like Captain America and Iron Man and Morbius. That is that like that drop off where there's not. Can you name me a classic Morbius run?

I'm not even trying to be a troll about. I'm being, I'm being serious. Are you midnight? What about are you any Midnight Suns fans in the group? Are you a midnight son's fan, Mallory? I think there's potential in a Midnight Sun's future, certainly. Did you have any, like, association with or expectation?

None. I mean, I have, I have really no experience with or connection to existing Morbius canon, which I sort of agree with the larger point that that can be kind of liberating to go in without the expectation either as just an individual in terms of how much you might be, like, looking for or expecting for a certain storyline or arc, but also in hitting something. some of the more fringe characters. I think actually the expectation that ended up setting itself around this movie,

surprisingly, is the Venom expectation, right? Much more so than the MCU or, and maybe this is just my perspective, but I think a lot of people who entered Morbius were hoping for, or maybe when Morbius was first announced, we're hoping for that full-on,

unapologetic madness, that Venom gave us. Like, if you look at critical consensus around Venom, it's not like that movie is critically adored or people think it's like a cinematic masterpiece. I think it is. We all agree, but this is the distinction. I think it's a little rude to think that Morbius

would be like the godfather of superhero movies, which Venom is. Yes. This is the distinction is that Venom built up this genuine affection and cult-like following because it is so strange. and bizarre and over the top campy. And this, let's get, let's get in here now

to talking about our feelings about Morbius itself because I think one of the real letdowns for me with Morbius, a movie that I did not particularly enjoy. I didn't think it was the worst movie I'd ever seen, but did not particularly enjoy it and have a lot of questions about it, is that it actually lacked completely that venom energy that not only I think this movie

could have really benefited from, but I think opens up some larger questions about the Sony universe and what sort of tone they're attempting to bring to their films or how these films might even connect. Now, later today, later in the pod, we're going to talk about the stingers and the very overt Sinister Six setup, what that might mean for the future inside of Sony's Spider-Man universe, the SSU, the Spider-Man universe that does not currently contain a Spider-Man, We'll also talk about that. And just think that the movie needed more of that over-the-top venom quality to really hum. What did everyone else think of the movie?

Well, that's what I'm thinking, Link, if you had gone cheesier. First of all, I would like the executive Sony and maybe even Jared Leto to take some time tonight and do some introspective journaling because you've made a movie that Mallory Rubin could not love. And that is hard to do. And they did it. There are plenty of movies I don't like. Name them. Top five. Give us this quick talk five.

Okay, so we're going to go, DW Griffith's birth of a nation, that's one, and I think that's the only one that I can be sure of. Mallory finds the good in so much, and she found very little to love here. Hold on, but it wasn't just Mal, though. This movie turned off Mal and Jomey.

They should burn the prince, like Mal and Jomey. Jomi is Mr. Captain Positive. It's tough. It's a tough look. I think, and I, this is a particular hang-up of mine, so I hope I'm not alone in this. But I think the special effects have a lot to do with the difference between Venom and Morbius in that the Venom effect is actually really good in those movies. And you've got the double Tom Hardy performance.

Like all of that is really good. The vampire faces are a real tough look in this movie. I cannot believe they looked at this and said, yep, that's it. Let's go home. And they had two years to make it maybe better, and they just didn't. And they decided to go with this. So, like, for me, it just looked bad in addition to a story that felt like something we had already seen in The Amazing Spider-Man 2. This is essentially the Hobgobbin plot in Amazing Spider-Man 2.

And one of the least well-liked plots in cover movies already. So, yeah, not a lot for me to love. What about you guys? Yeah, I'm sitting down in the theater, right? And the movie pops on, you know, frail Jared Leto. I'm looking at him. He's hobbling around. He's nice.

You know, it starts off. He's hanging out with his friend Milo. It's not even the guy's name. The whole thing. Milo! I'm going to be honest with you. I spent the entire movie waiting for you guys, waiting for the movie to get as bad as you guys said it was.

And I think maybe that is the deal. I spent the whole movie waiting for the movie to be as bad as what I was told it was going to be. And it just wasn't that bad. Like, to me, I cared a little bit about, I cared about Morbius. The character's motivations made sense. I did. Right, I cared about Morbius. There's a scene where Morvius is walking and his, his blood nutrition is wearing off.

He's like, you know, he's like, he's coming down, his blood hangover or whatever. and his body starts to atrophy again. It starts to break down. I'm like, damn, that must suck. You know what I mean? You go from my eye, he's throwing a tennis ball. He's catching it. He's figuring out his powers.

You know, Jared Harris is popping up. It's just like randomly. It's like, he put Jared Harris in the movie for like four scenes. I was like, you know, is something going to happen with this guy, who I know? So I didn't think this is, so there are two tiers of movies for me. One is that I have art, Arklight movies and I have I pick movies. So an arc light movie was a movie that I had to go to the Arklight rest and peace to see

because I had to be immersed in the cinema experience, see it in a dome, see it on a big screen, eat the premium popcorn with the real butter. And I had to be there for the movie. An I pick movie was a movie just to go to the IPEG, right? It was a movie just to go to the IPIC, sit back, drink and eat food for an hour and a half, and it was justifying you leaving your house. Morbius is not an arc-like movie, but it certainly was an I-Pick movie.

I saw a geostorm at the I-pick. So, like, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was- So you're saying, you're saying Morbius is the geostorm of co-gop movies. No, what I'm saying is that. We're sure it's not a catch-up on streaming when nobody knows where it's streaming

because of the right shares across the various studios and do an apple? No. It's a, it's a perfectly fine I pick movie, you went out, you have, it's like, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's a one-in-vvotted to be that bad. I think it's order some wing stop at home movie. That's what I think it is.

Describing a perfect evening, there you know, to be clear. My ringerverse colleagues, can I, can I call an ISO real quick? Please. All right, I want to say the audience, we hear you, okay? This is, this is days after screener gate. All right, I've had to resign from the ringerverse, uh, academy. I've issued my apology, but I want to let you know. In the words of my hero, arguably the greatest hero in the MCU, you cannot live with your own failure.

And where did that bring you? But back to me. I have trained for this day. I know my game is ugly. I know me jacking up hater balls from the logo is ugly. Okay? But this is what I trained for. I was molded by dark wizards in a volcano for this moment.

the hatred that I have internalized for years, 29 years of my life, is meant for moments like this. This is the type of shit that I live for, okay? And I want to let you know. Guys, I know I'm not popular in your hearts, but today I'm talking for all of you

who went to that movie and wasted an hour of 44 minutes that you will never get back. On your deathbed, you're like, I could have done anything else but seem morbious. I could have met the love of my life. I could have gone on a nice vacation.

I could have done anything else. Besides Jared Leto do whatever that he did in this movie. I think the... First of all, Bravo Charles. And I'm so glad... I'm so glad this is your time to shine. I'm so glad to be in your presence for this moment. But I think for me, the root of...

The root of what's missing from this movie is, like, everything they obviously cut out of this movie. the way that they have clearly cut apart and reshaped this movie into a bare bones plot that basically makes sense but kind of not. And you can tell, here's the moment in the movie you can tell. There's a conversation between two characters, then a cutaway to like a city, like a city establishment shot. And then we're back with those, like it was a TNT drama. We went to a commercial break.

And then we came back to the same two characters having the same conversation. And I was like, okay, you obviously cut some scene that was once here and just put a shot of a bridge in, a drone shot of the bridge in by the state. Like, it's a, it's a ramshackle skeleton of a movie. Oh, I mean, does Jared Leto know what movie he's in? It was my question, because it seemed like he was trying to give an Oscar-worthy performance. And everybody standing around and was like, yo, Jared, come on. Like, what are we doing?

He is an Oscar winner. So. Because Jared Leto is an actor. And, like, I have to, I have to be the guy to say this. Jared Leto had like one 50 point game in his life and ever since then it seems like he's been trying to recapture that magic It's just a lie It's just not true

I totally disagree He's on an epic run right now It's just a lie It's just not true It's just not a fact That that's the truth House of Gucci is an incredible experience Honestly

Yeah I actually want more I actually haven't seen House of Gucci, but I feel like the trailers were enough to sustain me much like a sip of true pure red blood for, you know, much longer than whatever recreated blue I would need to otherwise exist on. And currently watching We crashed, like the We crashed. And again, just from the trailers, House of Gucci Energy is actually what I wanted more of in this movie.

Like, I just wanted it to be a little bit more over the top. I think, Joe, to your point about what feels like it's missing, that's a really palpable sensation over the entire film. I have no qualms about a movie that feels like it is hitting similar story beats or broadly telling some sort of classic tale, facing off against your best friends, succumbing to the demons within, becoming the thing you fear in the pursuit of your own success. These are classic tales of hubris and fans. that's all great. I think the issue is that the movie feels like kind of the madlibs,

like skeleton version of that without any of the specific meat, despite the Captain America serum-esque glow up of all that additional meat that we do see inside of the film. You know, where the story doesn't get its version of that, the pecks and the abs and the biceps. That part I did enjoy. I will say that. I did enjoy that part. Like, think about all of the Spider-Man or larger connected universe bits that were in the trailer that maybe we're always going to be cut out

and we're just there to excite people and lure them to the theater. That's fine. But I think it's hard not to wonder from Oskorp on the side of a building to the murderer Spider-Man poster to the different version of the Tooms Stinger that we get to the fact that Toombs is in the fucking trailer even though he's the Stinger

and the Stinger should be a surprise. Like what amount did they have to pair? back because they cannot figure out what they can actually do inside of these movies and what needs to happen inside of the MCU, what they need to save for Craven, what they need to save for The Sinister Six? What universe is this? I think the fact that people refer to it as the Venom universe when it is technically called Sony's Spider-Man universe is pretty indicative of the fact that despite how much affection we genuinely carry for both Venom films, which we love, there's no plan here, none. And I think you could really feel that lack of identity inside

of this movie. That was why I felt let down by it. I want people to understand something. And it just wasn't fun enough. Sorry, continue. Hey, Mal, God damn it. Sorry. I love to have fun at the movies, Van. I want people to understand something. For all this talk about cinematic

universes, think about it. It's only ever worked once. Of all this discussion about cinematic universes, Star Wars, I guess, you know, it works, but even now I'd say that that that's in shambles because of the movie side of it. You know what I mean?

Right. Skywalker, there's a movie. I'm on the record of not liking just a circle back. Right. Number two. This too. We got two. So if all this talk about cinematic universes,

the MCU works. D.C. doesn't work. And then this Spider-Man universe doesn't work. It's hard to do. It's not easy to do. But they're still trying to do it is the thing is like, we just celebrated the Batman for being kind of separate from that continuity or we're celebrating Moon Night. Those of us who like Moon Night are celebrating Moon Night for not talking about the blip at all for being separate from continuity. So I'm not saying I need it to be in continuity.

I'm saying either make me a Morbius movie or make me a Sinisher Six prequel, but don't kind of do both at the same time. not know which one you're doing because you're uncertain because you don't have a Spider-Man under contract right now so you don't know what to do because Andrew Garfield hasn't re-signed up. Tom Holland is out in the wind because he doesn't want he doesn't want, they want Tom Holland to fight their craving. Keep Tom Holland in the MCU. Yeah, please. They want him, they want Tom Holland to square up off against Venom and Craven and Morbius. And Tom Holland's like, eh, I value my career. You know, and Andrew Garfield's like, I liked that taste of Spider-Man fame that I got again. And obviously they are beating down his door, but he's like, but also it's just at the Oscars.

So I'm doing okay. So like maybe I don't need to do this. Maybe I saw Morbius and I don't need to do this. So they don't have a Spider-Man, but they're trying to build a Sinister Six around nothing, empty, empty air, you know? But do you also think it's that thing of like this movie, Venom, the first Venom, I feel like the reason why it was magic was they didn't set out to make a so bad movie that it's good. I think they set out to make a good movie and they just didn't realize the one that they were going to release into the world

was going to be electric because of all of the choices everybody makes. So when they go into Let There Be Carnage, they can hone that. Where it's morbidus, I feel like they're trying to match that energy and what you end up getting is something lesser.

And a universe where I'm like, would Tom Holland even make sense in this universe? Like he's, it's a different. frequency, the quality of the movies, how they're shot. If Tom Holland was in this universe, I'd be like, Tom, is everything okay? Uncharted did pretty well. Like, you don't need to do this. Yeah, Tom Holland's going to get the Vindiesel wake up, but it, it is.

Yo, wait, whoa. He might. Tom Holland's going to get the Vindiesel wake up call. Like, Vinds you go out and you do Find Me Guilty and you do all of those movies. You're going to come back. You're coming back to Spider-Man. You're Dominic Tureto. But my thing is.

I don't think Morbius was trying to be that at all. I think Tyrese had no fun in this movie. Tyrese was amazing. Watch yourself. He was great. Tyrese is great. He's always great. He's the man.

But what I'm saying is that, like, Morbius was trying to be serious. It was trying to, to me, set itself apart from the Venom movie. Trying to be serious is giving us, think about it, two friends battling over their lives and sort of putting their entire life's friendship on hold because, one wants to be a vampire and the other one doesn't. Like these very high emotional stakes. Van, wait, this movie wanted to be serious. In the climax of this movie, spoiler alert,

a vampire does a hadukin with living bats at his best friend. And you're trying to tell me that this movie's like, we're trying to do something serious. Like, don't get me started on the stupid shit that happens in these movies. Come on, bro. Like, you know what I?

Like, don't like, don't wait. Let's not act. Like, let's not act like we're figuring out it was really Barzini and Tatalia. That's not what we're doing. Like, don't get me started on this stupid shit that. Stupid shit happens in the movies. Explain to me, fucking Nebula was seeing visions of the other. Never explained.

Like, never, like, like, never, never, never, never explain. There are levels to this. There are levels to what happens in the Morbius movie. I want to, I want to pick up something that Mal put in the, the notes that speaks to this, which is, do you know who knew they were, who was in the right movie this whole time? I think it was Matt Smith. Matt Smith.

I love him. That's my doctor do. Dances. Matt Smith, who just goes around going, Michael, Michael. That's a great movie. That's a great movie. Terrible special effects on his face. Awful.

But like, Matt Smith was in the right, the movie I wanted to be watching. That's, that's what I'll say. Yeah. To quote, or not quote, but paraphrase, our colleague and this earth, at least, in this part of the multiverse, this earth's preeminent Venom scholar, Miles Surrey. The reason that Venom works is because Tom Hardy on set was just like, I don't really care what movie you're trying to make. I'm going to go jump into this lobster tank. Believe Miles put this in his morbidious piece as a point of contrast, right? So I agree with Van that it's just as too,

most of the performances are too self-serious. Like the Venom references are some of the moments where you feel this most keenly. Like the fact that the I Am Venom moment meets, I don't know, Van, maybe you had a different experience in this because we all saw it at a screener and you saw it with an opening night with people who went to see the movie. Like silence in our screen. No, crickets.

No, last. they clapped when this movie ended at the AMC since it was over or because they enjoyed it no I'm asking sincerely I'm asking I got to be honest I didn't hate the movie as much as like they they clapped they clapped and then they cheered at one of the cutscenes you know what I'm going how about this this is what I'm going to stop doing I'm going to stop doing I'm going to stop going to any more screens I'll tell you why this is not a response to screener gate. Okay? Screenergate is what it is.

And we'll deal with it on Wednesday. All right. We'll deal with Screenergate on Wednesday. Don't forget about it. Come to Midnight Boys, pew, fucking pew. And we're going to deal with Screener Gate on Wednesday. I want to stop going to the screenings because I feel like sometimes

we're a little too serious from like I think we're a little too serious sometimes for, Morbius is, look guys, Morbius is not a good movie, but it's not as bad.

There's a hype beast Morbius train that I feel like everybody is jumping on it. And I'm sitting down in the film and I'm watching everybody and it just wasn't that bad of a movie. No, I think the thing that we're saying, or at least that I'm trying to say, is not that it's that bad a movie,

it's that it's not anything else instead of that, you know? It just feels like, which is okay. That happens. I like to see movies in general at the screening and then I like to go again over the weekend and see it both ways. If it's a big movie, like I like to see it again with a crowd because, yeah. So the Batman for the second time at 11 a.m. That was an experience.

Great stuff. I've seen like every Star Wars movie like three times. Like the press screening, especially here in San Francisco, where they're really small, are always dead in the room. And I completely agree with you. like movie critics, you know, which am I one? I don't know, but like they can be snobs. I can be a snob, absolutely. And you have so much more fun every time if you go with a gen pop to like see a movie. But that's why I went on Saturday with a friend of mine who is like the best at making a bad movie fun. And the movie theater was empty. And it was just the two

of us shit talking the whole time. And did I have fun shit talking this movie as loud as I wanted because there's no one else in the theater? Yeah, I have. a great time. But like, I'll be honest with you. The Batman, the Batman was the opposite in the screening.

When I was in the Batman general audience, five people walked out. No bullshit. Ben, what type of theaters are you going to? You always have these stories of just like, want me to get Kalika?

When we get Kalika? I believe you. I'm just saying, what type of stories are you going to? Because the Batman is, is the other way to me. The Batman is good, but it's not as good as we're saying it was.

And to me, I feel like there's some hype, be training that's happening. And I'm taking a stand right now. All right. I'm going to, here's the thing. Here's my issue.

Vad. I could get behind everything you're saying if like this story also from a story perspective makes absolutely no sense. They build this whole thing up of like, oh, Michael, he has to drink blood and the fake blue blood that he made. He's not working. So he's going to have to return to human blood.

And you're like, okay, I get it. I get the stakes. Cool. And at the end of the movie, just nothing. He's just like, oh, my girlfriend's a vampire now. And they say nothing about what happened.

He's just driving around meeting Vulture. He seems fine. Is he drinking human blood now? What's going on? Like, the movie itself does not know what type of story it wants to tell. His powers are nonsensical. And I, here's the thing. I could be fine with that.

If they weren't like, all right, we're going to make the vampire version of the Captain America serum. I'm going to admit, I really liked the vapor trails that changed color. He's a little. He's a little coat with purple trails, when you're in your orange jumpsuit. It comes out of it. I'm just like, what?

What's this power of his? And this makes no sense. Yeah. And he's orange. I got me honest with you. That's the only part that I didn't get. I was like, the only part that I didn't get is when he was in a jumpsuit. Here's my question.

And he was jumping around. In this universe, what is everyone's level of understanding and acceptance around vampires? Because Tyrese and Alamedrigal were like immediately went to God to be vampires. Yeah. With no. question of like, do vampires exist? Is that what's going on here? Like, are there other vampires? You know, like, let's play out a thought experiment here. Let's play out a thought experiment. There are not actual vampires in our real lives as far as we know, right?

But, well, okay, established and confirmed, but we all read vampire stories. We watch vampire movies, right? So if you went onto a ship where you stumbled upon a lab and you found bat DNA and then a bunch of bodies with fang marks in their necks that had been drained of their blood, what conclusion would you reach? I would immediately go vampire because I've watched like way too much vampires up. But I feel like Inspector Tyrese would say, wait a minute. Agent Stroud and Rodriguez, they're ringerverse listeners. They were ready for this, you know? They're in the fandom. But it is a world where,

yeah, it is a world where supernatural things happen. It's the world where venom exists, right? Like, they reference the mess in San Francisco. Like, we know this is the venom continuity. Presumably there is, in fact, a Spider-Man. So people seeing powered beings or supernatural beings are just oddities. That would be fairly standard, I think. I still feel like there would be a step between...

That we know, no, Avengers. I still feel like there would be a step between we believe in... Oh, Supers exist. And they're like, oh, shit, vampires are real. Vampires, like, from the books are real? Like, there would be a moment other than Al-Magrical putting, like, Triple Bless Holy Water on the table. Like, and that's a place for comedy, right?

I'm going the other way. They should have been so ready as a collective for vampires that the journalistic enterprises inside of this universe should have been ready with something better than vampire killer. Like, what happened there? That's the best we can do. I completely agree. I completely agree with that.

I said that's one of the first things I said in our group text. I can't get over. Copycat instead of copybat. How does nobody break out copybat? It's right there. Come on. But I'll be honest with you. Some of these things are the things that we start to do only when we don't like the movie.

That's a different universe, allegedly. Why isn't anyone questioning? And in fact, like, big in Eternals, big fucking celestial comes out of the sky. Like, these people are ready. Like, they're ready. They've seen venom. It's a different universe, man. But this is, but this didn't, maybe, we don't know.

But this universe has venom. This universe has that M&M song. This universe has like, you know what I mean? Like, they've seen worse. You know what I'm saying? Like, this universe has a Spider-Man. I think they were prepared for it. They were prepared.

I guess the thing is, if I had one, well, I have, first of all, let me, let's, let me make sure I understand this. I didn't love the movie. Don't backtrack now. Don't backtrack, Van. I'm not backtracking. I'm not backtrack. Look, if I loved it, if I loved it, I loved it. If I loved it, I loved it.

There's no right side of history when it comes to fucking morbis. If I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, it's not that I loved the movie. I just didn't think it was that bad. that maybe I see so many films, and we all do, that I'm thinking, yo, I've seen worse. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, like, I've seen, I've seen worse. I've seen some, you know, some, like I said,

some really bad movies. So I was like, damn, how did this happen? But with no, I think, and also I'll say this, I think knowing sort of some of the things, I might have a little bit more grace, because I know some of the the trials and tribulations

that have happened over the last couple of years and so I expected this movie to be disjointed there are jarring times like when Joe said but I expected to be a little disjointed and it was

whereas when I went to go see I'd say dark Phoenix or new mutants I was like yeah yeah This is, you know what I mean? Like, this is as advertised.

I thought both of those movies were worse than Morbius. This episode is brought to by Borris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it. Presenting the Friars turkey breast only from Borris Head. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter.

Visit your local deli today. discover the craftsmanship behind every bite, Boar's Head committed to craft since 1905. Let's use that as a jumping off point to quickly go character by character and talk about the actual story a bit more before we pan back out to the Stingers and the Sinister Six future.

Let's start with Morbius and that question because I think that's a really interesting one. And it obviously does connect to the Stinger a bit and what that sets up for the Sinister Six possibility and the villain possibility, but is Michael Morbius more interesting and more effective as a hero and anti-hero or a villain? And how did you feel about the version that we got in this movie, which is really anchored in trying to not succumb in full to the villainous impulse?

I mean, I just, I don't know if the movie knew what they wanted Morbius to be in terms of whether he's the hero of this story. He's the anti-hero or a villain. Because at the beginning, he brutally kills all these mercenaries. and then the screenwriters do a very, very neat trick of being like, the cops being like, we could have gotten over. You're killing six mercenaries, but the nurse? And I was just like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Like, immediately they tried to make it seem like Milo was definitely way worse than Michael just because he killed the nurse, which, yes, I get it. But then for the entire movie, they do so much work trying to show you how, like, Michael is actually good. He created the fake blood that saved Tyrese's all. He's a hero. And I was just like, I don't know if I believe this. So by the time we get to the stinger,

and Morbius is like Spider-Man, I'm just like- I can hang with an anti-hero and I can hang in wherever venom is. I think I understand that and I can hang with that. But I don't understand. Like if they were trying to say, Dr. Michael Morbius wants, he is afflicted with vampirism, but he wants to be the good kind that drinks only the blue. But oh my God, he got a taste of the red, and now he's crossed over and, like, what are we going to do about it?

But that's not really the story that they actually managed to tell us in the end. And so, yeah, I don't know what I'm supposed to think. So anti-heroes have to go anti-first, hero second. And so you have to establish your, because the journey is to hero. Because if you go hero first and anti, then we're like, oh, you went from good to bad. So you have to go anti-first hero second, right? So they didn't give us enough anti. This whole movie should have been anti.

This whole movie should have been Michael Morbius with a glint of one or two redeeming acts at the end, maybe where he fights his boy or where he saves someone. But they're trying to split the baby because they're not doing the thing that Marvel did. Marvel was patient to a degree before they got us into these big team-up movies. You got two Iron Man solo movies

before you get to the big team-up thing. These big team-up movies came after they gave you a little bit of time with these characters. And everybody else is too impatient to do that. So it doesn't even make any sense that Morbius would have a problem with Spider-Man. First of all, who is Spider-Man? We never spoke about him. What does he matter?

Why would Morbius care? Why would Morbius in any way have anything to say to Vulture? How the fuck the Vulture go from being released from prison, which wouldn't make sense that they just let him out, right? because they're like it just to number two how did he get his suit back it's just it's just like

the whole thing he doesn't exist so none of that stuff makes any sense and that to me is those to me are the points where they didn't really dig their hills in and stick to whatever their plan was like you what you needed was a whole movie of Morbius being a blood-sucking son of a bitch

and then start to bring him around in your third act last half of your third act but they didn't want to do that they weren't you know to volley back and forth the whole movie. I think you could also maybe make the inverse argument too, which is that like

probably feels more cohesive and that there's a little more like clarity of intention before the stinger. Now obviously, like the stingers are going to be there to set up what's to come next. I'll say quickly to that.

Well, we'll come back to the vulture questions because those are good ones. We know the Avengers don't exist so there's no Chitari invasion in this continuity. So how does he get the stuff to make the suit? that's bizarre. Anyway, the initial murder spree on the boat, not that I'm hand-waving it like the authorities,

but you could ultimately say, well, it's that initial rush where he has no idea what has happened, right? And that every choice he makes after that is ultimately set in opposition to the way that Milo approaches the power, which is I have this ability now, I am superior, everything that I could possibly take, I have the right to take. And that Michael, as a point of distinction, feels the compulsion to attempt to be better than that, right? Not only by drinking the blue instead of the red, but by developing the other serum that he uses to take down Milo and that he says, who's the second one for? It's supposed to be for himself because he doesn't want to allow this curse that he is unleashed through his pursuit of a curious, but also, again, his hubris to curse the world. But then they completely have, they never bought through on that.

It's just like, peace out, bestie. I'm going to go meet tombs in the desert. What happens? That's weird, right? I understand that that was the premise of the movie. It just didn't like, yeah. He has like, not only, I don't think it was just betrayed by the stick. I feel like the whole movie, I'm not feeling that maybe it's just Leto's performance, possibly,

but I'm not feeling that pull towards good that I feel like I'm supposed to. But are you feeling a pull toward a team up of villains? Like that was a shock. I thought that was a shocking swing. Why is he saying intriguing in response to Tumes' offer? What have we seen in the movie from him that leads us to believe he would be inclined in that direction? And listen, I've been following Jared Letto's career since the 90s, since fucking my so-called life. Fine. Okay. Sam, one of my first loves. Absolutely. Jordan Catalano. Very important.

Yeah. I have seen Joletto do some bad acting in his life. Never have I seen anything approaching. Did he have a gun to his head in that stinger where he was like, I'm in true, like, worst acting I've ever seen. Also, not convinced that was Michael Keaton's voice at all. I really feel like that was just some impersonator that they put an effect on. In the suit, that was not his voice. That was someone else is what I'm convinced. Because they just cobbled together that stinger after they decided to scrap the other one they had that they put in the trailer. Like, it's so confusing, Mal, I know we're getting off your point and you want to stay on Morbius. But I just think that, like, I don't understand who Michael Morbius is.

I think we're supposed to understand him primarily through his romantic relationship in this movie. But that isn't a strong enough strain, I think. And I just, I don't. It's not there. It's cut. It's on the cutting room floor. That's where I think it is. Can I say something really quick about Morbius? This is my larger.

So when I'm watching this movie, the whole thing about Morbius that I'm just trying to understand is I hate to keep comparing it to Venom, but you knew that like Hardy had this movie in him. This was the movie he always wanted to make. If he got a blank check, same thing with Ryan Reynolds and Deadpool. This is the thing that they're just like, I'm going to make this.

This is the hero that I believe in. want people to see my vision. And I'm still confused whether, like, Jared Leto either A had those emotions about Morbius or who did. Because, like, the choices that Jared Letto was making throughout this movie, like, he's committing to the disease he has. Like, he's, like, breaking down. He's like, I need to do this.

And it's just so emotional. And you're like, yes. And then the whole part of the movie is not that. When the little hairs in his ears start happening, that whole scene, I'm just like, Jared, I don't think you're vibing on the same frequency as this movie is right now. You're like going full Oscar, like they're going to create monuments

to this performance. And Tyrese is just showing up like, hey, I've been in Transformers, Fast and Furious. I know how to deliver some bullshit lines. And Jared just goes for it. And I just don't know if that works, if it's successful, you know? Yeah.

So I'm confused. Are you saying that he didn't go for it enough or he went for it too much? I feel like he was embarrassed. Like it seemed like he was almost embarrassed of the movie that he was in instead of like being like, oh no, I'm going to do the comic book thing.

I'm going to do the Ryan Reynolds Deadpool thing. I'm going to do the Hardy Venom thing where instead of being embarrassed of being in a superhero movie, I'm going to embrace the kookiness of it. Where even his Joker was a little self-serious. He's like, I'm going to do my Joker. And it's going to be great.

And I'm going to send people dead, dead rats. And like everybody's going to be. to know I'm a capital A actor. And I was just like, you don't need to be a capital A actor in this. You just have to be like fun. Like just be a fun vampire. That's all. He looks gorgeous in this movie.

Like, I'm just like, take your shirt off, do the thing. Like, why are you just doing the superhero thing? I mean, I get it. I thought it was, I thought it was interesting that he, Jelletto obviously wants to get into the superhero game, but he's just not quite sure how, you know? I like this Joker. I did.

I like this, I like this, I like this, I like this, I like this, I like this joker. You want to be, you want to be. I like, I like, I like this joker, but you don't want to be brief. I mean, I like you so much fan, but this is your worst opinion that I've ever heard from you. I mean, is there a character that you, you all would like to see Jared Letto play in a future superhero movie? Oh, do you feel like he's had his chances? Yeah. Should he not be benched?

Oh, how? I thought it were on the brief. I thought, I thought, like, I thought, I thought he, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I think it's, I think this is it. This is this. He's done. Don, y'all, you're going to give him a third chance? Yeah. No, I think, I think, I think, this is it.

Well, let's, let's spend a couple more minutes on someone who we know will be returning to our fandom screens very soon in House of the Dragon. Matt Smith. Let's talk about Lucian Milo for just another minute here. Everyone has already, I think, expressed that his performance is one of the parts of the movie that worked really well. Very fun villain over the top performance in a great way. I could have watched him dance in front of the mirror. Love the fits. Some great fashion sense in general.

Two questions. One, does anyone know where all of his money came from, where this fortune came from? Do you wish that you knew? Was he some sort of underworld boss? I thought it was just family money. He was already super posh when he shows up at the... When he showed up at the hospital, yeah. But it seemed like he had a lot of guys around him as if he was pushing buttons on motherfuckers, though.

It kind of did. I don't know, but yeah. Is he really dead? I hope so. I don't think he's really dead. I don't think he's dead either. I think he's going to be back. And I hope he is.

I hope we see Milo again. I hope Matt Smith only signed contract for one movie. I hear the thing with Milo Milo to be doesn't work as a villain as well Because we meet him And they're like all right We're gonna we're gonna lay a lot of groundwork He's this great kid and he was beat up his whole life

And whatever he has like And then he becomes a vampire They're like he's evil now And I'm just like wait what like What's what's happening? You're missing the threads Charles Your hate Oh what threads

The threads is he was funding Jared Letto's he was funding Jared Leto's research about finding the cure. So whereas Jared Letto at least, Michael Morbius at least partly, decided that he was going to do other things to help the world, right? He had single-minded focus obviously to figure out the blood, the rare disease, but he also did other stuff. He's going to get a Nobel Prize and all of that stuff like that. So he was doing other things. this guy was single-mindedly focused. He hated the body that he was in.

He couldn't stand it. And since he got there as a kid, you see that Morbius at least had made some peace with it. He had some jokes about it. But this kid was the one that got beat up. This kid was the one that just couldn't deal with it, needed to find out what was wrong. So that, coupled with the fact

there actually was a cure to it, he was never going to go back. Like he wasn't, it's almost like Chronicle. You know, like in Chronicle, you have the Michael B. Jordan character and then the other guy who I never saw in another movie after that, it was just weird to me. Amazing Spider-Man, too. It's Dane Dahan. He's done that role twice now.

Yeah, well, Dane Dahan is who I'm talking about. So, no, Dane Dahan is the one that, like, in that movie. I was talking about Michael B. Jordan and then the other guy who's in it, the third guy. Yeah, yeah. third guy. Dane DeHan in that movie he was the one

that once he got powers, because he was the one that was getting fucked over, once he got powers, he wasn't going to be altruistic with them because he had seen society's asshole for so long that he was fucked up by it. And that's kind of the same trope that they're using here. Yeah, but

here's the thing. You need to lay that groundwork character-wise between him stealing the serum and by the next time we meet him, he is a fully formed, evil vampire and he's a dick. And I'm just like, okay, what happened was he saw his friend in pain? Was he like, I don't know if I should take it.

Should I take it? Yes, I've always wanted this. Like, we didn't get any interior into what his life was like as an adult. I don't think that's true though because like to Joe's point from earlier about how the central relationship of the film is between Michael and Martine. I would argue that it's the one between Michael and Milo, that their friendship is the unifying threat across the story. And the film asks the question, like, what happens when the thing that you share with another person goes from uniting you to putting you at odds, right?

And so initially, their blood condition is the thing that unites them, not only because of the condition itself, but because it casts them out from the rest of the world. They feel separate and apart. And so they find this bond with each other and with Dr. Nicholas. And then the moment when, and I think Michael does want that cure just as. much as Milo. Like, he's pushing forward. He says it's the thing that he needs. And so when he gets it, the fact from Milo's perspective that, again, this, like, shared pursuit

would only go to one of them is unthinkable. Now, do we get, like, the level of detail of, okay, well, we see a vertebrae counting when Michael is injected and somehow Milo gives this to himself on his own? No. But I do think enough is established to say he would go from feeling extremely. hurt and resentful that he was not given this, that he didn't have the ability to make that choice for himself, that Michael made it for him. And then when he feels the rush of possibility and goes from pain and the constant threat and looming presence of pain, anguish, agony,

and anguish in many forms, right? Physical, but also emotional. And this threat of looming the death to all of that strength and power. and possibility, not only over his own circumstances, but over other people, that he would run with that. That actually, to me, feels like a more believable response than Michael immediately saying, I can't allow myself to give into these impulses because I have to protect other people. I think it makes a logical sense, but I think to back up Charles, from a storytelling point of view, they would rather us, the audience, for five minutes, think that it was Michael Morbius killing the nurse in the hallway because they just show us the hand and then we show Michael

show like wake up and Michael's supposed to wonder if it was him. They're trying to create a brief little whisper of a mystery, even though any of us who have seen a movie were like, no, it's obviously Matt Smith. He obviously swipes something, blah, blah, blah. But they were trying to do a little mystery instead of show, and not that they have to show us every single thing, but rather than show us Matt Smith, either grappling or not with that decision at all. Do you know what I mean? They obscured it in favor of a mystery and a mystery that didn't really work. very well, I thought. And I think it's because Matt Smith actually gave the type of performance that this movie needs

is that I was looking for a little bit more. You need one or two more scenes establishing who he is as an adult. Like we know what happened to him as a child, but I'm just like, what is his life now? What is his love? Like him doing some fucked up shit, like swindling someone or something like that? Yeah, like give me one other thing to show me like, oh yeah, I get why this person would have. He's got a dark streak, yeah. Or show him at the bar, show him at the bar before.

and then show him at the bar after. You know what I mean? And he's like, I'm going to fuck some people up because I can now. I think actually the good part of like Michael and Milo's relationship is it's super sad when they're walking down the New York like street. And Milo is telling him something like, like he's like,

I've never been in love. Like you realize that like this has completely taken over their life. And I'm like, oh, that's heartbreaking. I could see how that type of character would take this, take this at any cost. I just needed one more beat to show that like, oh, yeah, his life actually has been irrevocably damaged by this. Charles, listen to it yourself.

Who cares what you need? Think about what Milo needs. Think about, like, think about Milo's life and how he's lived and what he's sacrificed for. He's given all of his money for all he knows. Fucking Morbius is going down to South America having a great time and not doing shit. Think about what Milo needs. Milo is the man. I'll tell you why I wanted him out of this.

Because that's my guy to play Dr. Doom. That's my number one Dr. Doom right there. Great pick. Matt Smith, Matt Smith is my... I love that. Great big. Matt Smith is my number one.

Inspired. I like Matt Smith, but no. He's my number one Dr. Doom. And they've worsened him already in from more views. My question is, is this a better movie if Milo is in love with Michael? and that's why he's so angry at Martine and like stalking her and all this sort of stuff. Yeah, of course. I feel like that's kind of there and they should have just made it the text rather than the subject.

I think certainly his jealousy is present in the way that he talks about the relationship between Michael and Martin. But it's just like Charles was saying earlier because he just has no version of that for himself, right? And he's longing for it and craving it. Wow, I'm still just thinking about Matt Smith as Dr. Doom now. Should we talk about Martine for a minute here? I am wondering, of course, if the cat is okay. I was very concerned that the cat was left in the deep recesses underneath the city. Martine, now a vampire, bites down on the lip, gets that bloody goodness, right?

And then Michael sinks his fangs in. We see the opening red eyes. What is Martin's future inside of the morpillar? Morbius franchise. Will Martine be a villain, an ally for Michael Morbius? I think she'll be an anti-ally. An anti-alli. Meaning, what's an anti-alier. That just sounds like an enemy. It's anti-hero and an anti-alli. Maybe anti-ally are the people who didn't post

Black Squares on Instagram when we needed to. No, but I think she'll, I think, I think she's going to. Because look, I think she's going to be part villain, part hero, but mostly villain. I think it's going to be harder for her to not take part of the bloodlust that Morbius is. Morbius is, you know, I think she's going to be around to be a thorn in his side because he's always going to need someone from his life. Like she'll be the new Milo almost. Not quite like Milo, but like a little bit more. Did Martina have anything to do in this movie?

I actually thought like... Excuse me. Someone has to turn on the centrifuge so that it's constantly spinning vials in every single scene. It's not science if there's not a centrifuge. Also, I don't believe her hoops were OSHA compliant for a lab, I have to say. Her signature hoop earrings? Is that bad? You can't do that?

No. You get caught on a vial or something. I don't think that on this ship they were really worried about OSHA or whatever's going on. I will just say, Martine, the whole subplot with her and Jared being in love, just like, I don't buy this. I don't buy this. What is going on? They have that weird kissing scene where like, this is why there was like subtext to it where like Milo is like angrily like just

staring at them like, how dare you kiss my man? And I'm like, that's the interesting movie. That is what I would have paid for. Well, look, I don't know that in the grand scheme of thinking she matters. Because I mean,

as we're talking about it, not much in this movie matters, right? So she could be a villain. She could be, but we could never see her again. We could literally never see the character again. about that. I mean, also, the question is, is Sony going to make a Morbius too after this? Oh, they will. Let me tell you something about Sony. Let me tell you something about Sony.

Let you guys know something. Sony is being emboldened. You guys are daring Sony and Sony's going to say, you know what? Fuck you. Like, you guys are daring Sony. So, like, you keep picking at Sony. So like, people keep picking at Sony. Sony's going to be, like, you know what? Fuck you guys. They're going to go do something crazy like cast Zach Efron and Spider-Man and then you're going to come back and you're going to get all of these Sony is Sony doesn't care.

Sony's going forth. There's going to be a Craven movie, right? There's a madame. There's a damn web movie. A madam web movie coming. All of that spider totem shit is happening. Like you don't stop calling Sony's bluff. Sony's not fucking around. Yes, we will see Michael.

Morbius again, yes, they're not going to not do it. We're going to see Michael Morbius again. We're going to see Michael Morbius and Adrian Toombs and that fucking guy who was the Scorpion in the other movie. They're all going to be there. Michael Mando? Yeah, the only guy we're going to have to wait for is Spider-Man, who we don't know. Yeah, Tom Holland never coming back.

If all that does happen, Tom, you could do better, man. You could do better. All right. Before we chat a little bit more about the Sinister Six and the singers, any other comments on Nicholas or our beloved Jared. Aaron Harris, Agent Stroud and Rodriguez. Tyrese, great job. You are one of our finest actors.

Always a delight to see Tyrese. He just knows how to deliver lines. You saved my life. Let me tell you, let me tell you what the best thing about Tyrese was his movie. Tyrese, shout out to Tyrese, Tari's knows all of them. The best thing was that Tyrese actually posted on social media. Did you guys see the Martin Scorsese post? Oh, poor Tyrese.

Obvious April Fool's joke with someone saying, like photoshopping, Marks-Corsese in front of a Morbius poster and saying that Morbius has changed his model superhero movies, and Tyrese thought it was real. That right there is worth anything that you guys have to say about this movie because you don't get that moment if the movie doesn't get that. Do you know what type of man? is that he is so confident in Morvius as a film after watching it that he's like,

of course this would change Martin Scorsese's mind. Of course this is the film that will warm this old man's heart. Tyrese is a legend. I don't care what none of y'all say. I love Tarrees. I love Tarvis. Music, movies, and social media. He's a legend.

I want to shout out really quickly that there's a scene in this movie where Jared Harris, who clearly should have died immediately. Ex-sanguinated. One of my favorite words is in this movie, ex-sanguinated. He should have been dead. But he lives long enough to call Michael, lives long enough for Michael to bob over there so that Michael can see him so that he can say one line kind of and die.

They had to pay Jared Harris a whole extra day for that, you know? And I hope, I hope he spent that money well. That's all I have to say with that. I hope he got a new beach house. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming.

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or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiator.com. All right, we've mentioned the stingers many times throughout, but let's look ahead, both for more the Sinister 6, Sony, the MCU, all of it.

Two Adrian Toombs stingers, the first one where we see the rifts open, the ruptures, the purple in the sky, and our vulture from Spider-Man Homecoming from the MCU ports over into the Sony universe, then the second stinger where he and Michael are meeting up in the wee hours to plot a team up. I am confused, like sincerely confused by why this was spoiled, not only in the trailers that Michael

Keaton was going to be in this movie, but also in the press tour leading up to the film. Like, this was, maybe I'm just used to the stingers in the MCU really functioning as this kind of shock moment and twist and surprise to set up what's to come. And they wanted to give us one more thing to get excited about. maybe he had a larger or different role in the film prior to edits. I have no idea. I don't know if anyone else has any idea. But there was this cinema blend interview with Daniel Spinoza days before the film.

This was on March 25th, I believe. And I actually sent some of the tweets in our group chat, never considering them a spoiler for the film. Because again, this was happening in an interview that was being live tweeted in a Twitter thread. and it was a level of detail about not only that this was going to be in the movie, but that this was the Adrian Toombs from Spider-Man Homecoming. So broadly, I'm curious why that happened that way. If anybody has any thoughts on that, I find that very strange to not leave that as a surprise, but perhaps more importantly than the marketing aspect.

Before we talk about Sony and the Sinister Six, what about the MCU? Like, what is the MCU implication if characters, from the MCU continuity can also be pulled into the Sonyverse, because that is not the understanding that we left Spider-Man No Way Home with at all. That is a big update. I think you just answered your own first question, which is why is the director out here saying this? Because it makes no sense he's getting in front of it to pre-explain something that makes no sense at the end of his movie. Makes no sense that Adrian Tooms would cross over this way. Absolutely not. And also, I mean, other Marvel characters can do this.

Adrian Toombs can because Sony technically owns him. He's a Spider-Man villain, so Sony has ownership over him. But we're not going to see, like, random other Marvel characters come over here. But, like, does it make absolutely no sense? Yes. Does it completely ruin whatever arc Adrian was on when we, like, saw him protect Peter in a previous Spider-Man movie? Yes. Does he know that Peter is Spider-Man?

It seems like maybe not. And so it's like a cash reboot. Does wings come from the stinger at the end of Amazing Spider-Man where we see the Sinister Six items in glass cages? Maybe. But like it really feels like a stretch that Sony doesn't really care if it makes sense. Well, no one knows that Peter is Spider-Man. No one knows.

But that's the question is like, does he not know, like, what's his brain erased? And then he poured it over. But wait, why? I'm just confused if we're quarter-flipping. We know from the other film, I don't know. when Morbius is set in the timeline that people who knew that Peter were Spider-Man

were being sent to this universe from wherever they went. Why would somebody from the MCU be ported into another universe for potentially knowing who Peter is? Like that makes no sense. I think I know why the director did it. I think I know why.

Danny E. Danny Espinosa, D.E. I think I know why he did it. He did it Because number one, to explain that it didn't make any sense, but also to let people know, hey, there are MCU implications in this movie. So if you don't see this movie, like a lot of people tell you this movie is bad, but just let you guys know, there are stuff that you're going to want to see

that has to do with the future, not of Morbius, but of Spider-Man. And you're going to want to see it for yourself. And y'all want you to see it so bad, I'm about to tell you exactly how it happens. All right. So I think that I think that it's probably, it's probably a situation to where, hey, this comes out before because a cutscene is like, it's something that we, that gets, the rumors get thrown around, but we want to go and be surprised.

And this one right here, I think it literally was to sell the movie a little bit. But this movie is not just this self-conscane story. It's something that's a part of something bigger and you might need to go see it. Can I say I feel lied to? I'm going to be real. The whole Stinger situation pissed me off. It's like when I was in high school and I needed a job. And somebody be like, yo, I got you.

I can hook you up. Yo, just come here on this day. And I'm like, all right, cool. You're back in your mind. This seems too good. Like, I don't need a resume. I don't need nothing. He just telling me to come to this place.

I got a job. And then you walk in and like, you realize a bunch of our motherfuckers are there. And they're like, hey, guys, you want a job. And everyone's like, yeah, we want jobs. And then they're like, you like knives. And you're like, God damn it. They're like, what am I? They want you to sell cutco knives.

Happened to me, Primarica Insurance. come over here, get a job, and I get in the room and it's all of these people. I'm like, what the hell is like, hey, let me show you the tears of Primeraic. I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. Yeah, I just like, that's what this movie felt like where I was just like, you see Voltra and you're like,

ooh, this is going to be important. I got to see this movie. And then you get there and you're like, oh, God. Like, there's a bunch of people at this movie and it has nothing to do with the MCU. And it makes no sense. And it's just that to me is the worst implication of the multiverse, which is like when the multiverse first happened,

We're like, yeah, this means anything can happen. And what really it meant is that the bunny now has the gun. And Sony's like, hey, if y'all want to use Spider-Man, y'all got to let us use some MCU shit. Okay, so on the one hand, it's not like anyone left Spider-Man, no way home with a complete fully formed understanding of how the multiverse was going to function inside of the MCU. Part of the point was that we had a lot of questions

that would be answered in future films, including, of course, the impending Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which just based on the trailers, seems to hinge on the premise that things went very wrong and did not, in fact, get resolved the way that we might have been led to believe the characters believed at the end of the Spider-Man movie.

So things are going to be unsettled, right? There is going to be something afoot that needs to be contained, and maybe the fact that characters were going in, or people inside of the universe, were going in other directions than they realized when they thought it was just anybody who knew, you know, Peter, who knew Spider-Man

was coming in into that continuity. into the Tom Holland continuity, that could be explained away as soon as Dr. Strange. But I think ask, it's difficult to ask people to, it's enough to ask people to see every movie inside of the MCU or every show

inside of the MCU to understand, to have to track things across various franchises. I think you're right. You guys are right that, of course, Sony would have a desire to latch on to the MCU wave. I mean, the Venom's sense. Stinger is an MCU Spider-Man connection and everybody was thrilled by it and excited by it.

But I think that one was more about a possible, that was about possibility and what we might soon discover. And this one is fully oriented in confusion, which is a pretty, I think, important distinction to draw. And then you also, when you start to play out the string, like I think, Joe, your point about the character right shares is important, right? There's a limit on who could be ported in this direction. But other characters could.

Are we going to have Scorpion come over? Shocker? Like, which characters are going to come from the MCU into the Sony Spider-Manverse? And I think you have to remember when you talk about the fact that this was supposed to come out summer of 2020, right? So that would have been before...

That's the other thing. It just all feels so tacked on it. Yeah, we would have seen the strange spell. So, and that was, like, the venom, the two venom stinger, like the Let There Be Carnar Stinger and the No Way Home Stinger kind of feel like they contradict each other or it kind of feels like they were saying one thing about where Eddie Brock was and then saying another thing about where Eddie Brock was or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

But I feel like had to get that little bit of symbia left behind in the MCU. Which doesn't make any sense. But I think that at a certain point, Sony was just saying like, hey, this is going to be the same universe. Like Michael Morbius and Venom exists in the same universe as Iron Man and Captain America and blah, blah, but then the Disney-Soney, you know, relationship isn't what it is. And so then they have to splinter it off and say, okay, JK, this is its own universe. And that's part.

And so then we have to port Adrian Toombs over somehow if we want to use Michael Keaton in our Sinister 6 going forward because he can't be in the MCU universe. I think that's a crucial point because inside of the MCU, we have already and we'll continue to see variant upon variant upon variant, different versions of our established characters. But it seems like both from the Sony characters coming into the MCU and No Way Home and what happened here, when characters are moving across the studios, we will only see one. That it would just be prohibitively confusing maybe to have Michael Keaton playing Adrian Toombs in both Sony films and in the MCU.

The problem, in addition to the ones we just talked about, you end up taking a character who is one of the more compelling villains in the MCU to date. in large part because he's really like, he's your, you've got your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, you've got your friendly neighborhood villain. The idea that your girlfriend's dad could be the vulture and you'd have no idea.

It's like deeply, deeply unsettling. And he does everything that he does because he feels slighted. He doesn't think it's fair that the guy's up in the tower have all the riches and he has to fight for it. He wants to earn for his family.

His family's not, who's he doing this for now? Now he's just a bad guy. Like what? Right. All of that's gone. Like they completely undidim. And all,

And as he was ported over, like he became, he took on the hoakiness of the world. He didn't even seem like the same vulture. There was this sinister, there was this sinister confidence about the vulture. And the confidence came from the fact that he 100% believed in what he was doing. Like there was absolutely zero in his mind. There was absolutely zero, zero confusion. that he was doing the thing he should have done for his family. It didn't matter who he had to hurt.

Then that he was resolute in everything, right? He was no question in his mind. As soon as he comes over, now all that's gone. He doesn't really know what university is. He's in. He doesn't really know anything. He just now has been leveled down to one of these, like, almost dime store villains that just has this super,

one-dimensional hate for Spider-Man. He doesn't know why. It's just a weird thing. And it was weird to do it like with him. Like it was, it was, to me. And to do it in these in these two disjointed post-credit stingers, like to do it in so rapidly. If this were a plot of the move, part of the movie and there was space for it in a movie, that's kind of one thing. It's bad enough, but then to cram it into these like yada, yada, yada, a mysterious man has showed up in jail.

So we've just let him go because that's how that would work, you know. And yeah, I completely agree with Van. They've turned him into like Paul Giumani as the rhino, right? Like, you know, a villain where you're just like, hey, you got a great actor, Paul Giumani. Why don't you give him some motivation? No, he's just this guy in a suit with an outrageous accent. Okay. Like, why?

And also what is he do? Like, the other thing is like, what's he doing in this universe? Is there not like an FBI or anybody who's just like, we should keep tabs on this? Why was this person in prison? why was he doing this thing? They're just like, no, like, we're just going to let somebody who now has this dangerous check just, like, fly around. Well, this is part of why it would be helpful to know if other people were just suddenly appearing in this universe because then they would have maybe more important things to focus on, like, the fracturing of reality.

But if that's not the case, then, yeah, maybe ask a few follow-up questions on our guy, Adrian Dudes. But this is, yo, motherfucker, if you pop up in an empty, first of all, very convenient that, the prison cell was empty. Just like the way, like, just very convenient because there's overcrowding in them motherfuckers. If you pop up in that bitch, you go in the area 51. Guess what? Like, you're going under the ground in Nevada.

And they go keep you there as long as they have to to figure out what the fuck is going on. He's really lucky that, yeah. He's lucky that shield and sword our Marvel institutions. not in the Spider-Verse. Right. Our friends over the new rock stars suggested that maybe Adrian Toombs is now going to be like a Nick Furious character popping up the end of movies to recruit The Sinister Six. And I'm like, you know, with love and respect to Michael.

Yeah, with love and respect to Michael Keaton, who I hope works forever. And I'm not mad that he is coming back as Batman, et cetera. I don't want this for him. Is it the same? who's the Peter of this universe? Let's talk about this. The question. Who's like the Spider-Man?

Because here's the thing. They make it seem like there's a Spider-Man in this, possibly in this universe. But why would Adrian Tooms be mad at this Spider-Man when he is specifically mad at Tom Holley's? Like, this Spider-Man hasn't done shit to him. So this Cinema Blend, March 25th, Q&A with the director.

So they asked, is there a Spider-Man in Venom's universe? The answer is, quote, of course. The follow-up question is okay. which Spider-Man exists in Venom's universe. And the answer is, quote, it is my understanding that audiences will discover the answer soon. He also said,

I think, he also said he would get a lot of, in a lot of trouble for saying that this was Andrew Garfield's universe. Right. But, but clearly that will be what happens, right?

Of course. If they can get Andrew Garfield to agree. It can't be Toby McGuire's universe because it's a different venom. It's not the same venom and also, yeah, it's not, it's definitely.

They were going for the Sam Ramey Daily Bugal look, I will say. Like, dear God, Andrew Garfield, run is what I'm saying. Like, run fast. Maybe he's exactly what we need to run fast. He's got to run away. Let me tell you something, Joe. Okay, man.

Very rarely in life do you get chance to do it again? Normally in life, Joe, you get one shot. What did Eminem say and lose yourself? One moment. You own it. Never let it go. guess what? This is like fucking

like Steve and Wash her Face getting back together on the Brooklyn Bridge and Sex in the City too Sex in the City movie they get to do it again I did not expect

a Stephen Miranda moment Stephen Miranda remember they walked across the bridge they were crying they get to boom do it again So it did well for Stephen Miranda

it did it did well for viewers though I watched that shit Miranda Awakening's Joe Joe Awakenings But the second shot he got was No Way Home, and he crushed it.

So I'm saying, Andrew Garfield, with all the love of my heart, take your W, take your win from No Way Home, and you are, he untarnished himself. Do not retarnish yourself by entering this Sony mess. No. All right, so wait, my other question is if it is Andrew Garfield Spider-Man, that also makes no sense because I got the sense that like when Venom sees like Peter, he's just like, like, It doesn't seem like he's aware of another Spider-Man from his universe. He's in another city, though.

So maybe he doesn't know about him. Maybe they all have the internet. Wait, you're telling you're telling me. San Francisco. San Francisco doesn't have the internet. I don't know if you know what. But San Francisco does not have the internet. And also, when is Andrew Garfield Spider-Man set?

Because, like, this Spider-Man has been Spider-Man for a while. It seems like in no way home. He's like, he's gone through some shit. So this world, like, Venom just doesn't know. He's one of the best journalists in the world. One of the best journals in the world just has you never heard of a man with spider power

swinging around in New York? Here's the worst threat. Here's the worst threat that I've heard is people guessing this will be Miles Morales. And I'm like, don't do it to Miles. Don't do it to Miles. That'd be a hate crime.

Hey, I'll be honest with you though. That could work. Bring Miles up to the MCU. Into good movies in the MCU. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not going to happen. They're like, I can tell you guys, that's not going to happen.

Unless some kind of once in a lifetime deal is struck between Sony and Marvel, where they agree to make these movies together in perpetuity, Sony would be, from a business aspect, fucking dense to give the MCU Miles Morales. Now you're splitting not your number one kid, but your number two character as well. They eventually want Miles Morales, and they want him to have his own shit where they can produce it and do the whole, they do not want to have to do this again. That, I feel confident.

I feel confident that's not going to happen. But here's the thing. They cannot, Miles Morales cannot be in the Venom universe. I'm sorry, there's a level of quality that these movies will never reach. And if you take a character as beloved as Miles Morales and put him next to fucking Morvius, all right? I'm going to burn this to the ground. Okay?

I'm going to have to have a talk with everyone involved. Who are you hoping to see? in the Sinister Six itself. Sony has been trying to make a Sinister Six movie for ages. Obviously, as Joe mentioned earlier, there was very overt Sinister Six set up in the special project sequence in The Amazing Spider-Man 2. We got to see all of the suits, right?

This has been, there were announced films. This has been a primary objective for quite some time. We know that we're getting the Craven movie next year, 2023, feels reasonable to assume that Craven would be next in. So you've got vulture, Craven, Morbius. Who do you want to fill out the six? Black Cat.

My favorite Spider-Man villain has always been like Octavius. Always. Charles hates this. And a lot of Green Goblin stands do. But it's always been Octavis for me. So I'd like to see him back. I think that Alfred Molina is

probably getting up there to the point to where you want to recast that. You know what I mean? but I like him And that's what I said Felt like our farewell With that version And at some point

We gotta go back to Norman Osborne Which is something that they They were hinting at in Garfield's deal Right At some point we got to go back to Norman Osborne So I don't know Maybe Dane de Hain comes back If they bring back

Fucking Dain I can't I would say this That would be tough I Like did you What's the last time you watched Amazing Spider-Man too.

I haven't seen it. Goblin is like, oh, it's bad. It's really bad. Is it, is it bad to say that I don't want a Sinister 6 movie? Like, it just, it just doesn't make any sense to me without a Spider-Man. All of these movies are starting to feel like there's this big hole missing.

And like, if they just, like, introduce a Spider-Man very quickly in a Sinister 6 movie, I just think you're, it's just going to be bad. and Sony's going to be back to where they were before the MCU started. There's just too much going on.

Let's say Craven is on a similar level of Morbius. We got to wrap this up. Well, Vindom's going to be in it, right? I think to Mallory's earlier point about, Adrian Toombs as he exists in the MCU, Spider-Man villains work best if you create them in opposition to a specific Spider-Man. Do you know what I mean?

And so, like, the fact that the villains that Tom Holland was fighting were tailored specifically to him until you get this crossover where it's like all Spider-Man, all villains. But like the friendly neighborhood villain to the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, like that all works. So to create these villains in opposition to nothing because they are going to fill in their blank Spider-Man with whoever they can get, can they dupe Tom Holland into this, can they dupe Andrew Garfield into this, can they dupe, you know, someone new into this?

Like what are they going to do? They don't know yet. So they're just throwing various villains at the wall. I think that's where you're in trouble. Question, narratively. Also, I think Dr. Octopus gives you

very interesting flexibility to do superior or superior Spider-Man situation when I think would be really good on screen and love Superior Spider-Man. Does it make narrative sense to build the Sinister Six first,

thus giving Spider-Man of this universe, whomever he is, a reason to get super gully and go into war against this big, huge, overwhelming force. And maybe there is a Spider-Man in this universe, but he's not Spider-Man yet, although that would be tough, but maybe he, I don't, I have no answers. Maybe the Sinister Six sort of, it's his test to become, to grab, the reins of this universe of Spider-Man.

I just think the problem with all of this is that the best Spider-Man villains work because they tell you something about who Peter is or who he isn't. Venom works as a Spider-Man villain because he's everything

that Peter Parker is not. Same with Dr. Overwhelming him, yeah. And if you create the villains first who have all of these origin stories that have nothing to do with Peter, and you just pluck any Spider-man into it, you're not going to get to our point that we keep talking about the Tom Holland connection where it's just like, oh, these villains mean something. For him to go against these villains,

it hurts him in a specific way because they've let him down in a specific way. If you just throw a Spider-Man in there and be like, all right, now he cares about all these villains. I'm like, no, he doesn't. He doesn't know who these people are. I just don't know how it works. The last thing I want to say about Sinister Six, and it might even be the last thing I need to say on this podcast, this great podcast about a movie we didn't like, is if you do yourself a solid someday and go look up the earlier planned Sincer Six movie plots because they're the most bonkers things I've ever read. They're out there. You can Google them. But like Sony had some, has had some bad ideas about what to do with Sinic Six, which makes me worried for what they

might do in the future. Okay. Quickly. Two things. before we go. One, Easter eggs. Favorite Easter egg from the movie? Does anybody have one in terms of a Spider-Man connection or reference or not? Any faiths? Just a bugle shit. Yeah. So I see the bugle. A lot of bugle action. The article on Michael not accepting the Nobel Peace Prize, we had the whole newsstand interaction. Always nice to see the bugle. We got some the chameleon and rhino references, right. Arjuna was excited. He spotted the chameleon and rhino references. Camelion's going to be in the Craven movie.

So that's another sinister six possibility, potentially. Does the movie being over count as an Easter egg? Because I was like very. Jesus Christ. I have a question. If someone is going to do something as dramatic is turned out a Nobel Prize, would you rather see that happen?

Or would you rather see a headline that it happened? Dumb! I have a lot of it. Hold on, hold on, hold on. The one fucking thing, I'm like, like, I'm sitting in the theater. I'm enjoying, you know, as you guys, I'm enjoying some nachos. I'm taking two nachos at a time because they're so comfortable and dipping them. And I'm like, and I'll literally go, and I'll literally mouthful of nachos, I go, what?

What the fuck? Dumb. That is a more person-defining career. That's like, that's a Taylor Swift moment. But that's something you want to see somebody do. not just I turned it down because that was the most mystifying of all the decisions in the movie.

That was the one that got you, man, really? Shut up! I'm glad that Joe set that up as would you rather because that brings us to our final segment today. We're going to play a quick round before we bounce of Morbius, would you rather? I came up with five of these. Don't know if we have time for all of them,

but we could run through these very quickly. Everybody has to make a choice, okay? This is a movie about choice and consequence. would you rather have all of Michael Morbius's living vampire powers, including those abs. But insatiable bloodlust or never get to fly slash glide on those colorful waves, but also never have to drink human blood. You opting in or not?

Hell no. Hell no, I'm not opting in. I love food. I love pizza too much. Imagine you just being hungry for blood. That is just like, that's so inconvenient. Everywhere you go, you're like, oh, fuck, I can't, I can't stop at McDonald's. I guess I got to just find somebody to kill now.

You can eat regular food, I think. You just need to eat blood too. I think you, I think you, I think vampires can enjoy like some fries. It depends on the lore. Yeah, it varies across the can. And we do see Milo take a shot at the bar, right? Yeah. So, I mean, what the fuck is that?

Charles? It wasn't a shot of blood. I didn't see him eat. I didn't see Michael eat after. Let me tell you something. Let's tell you why I would take the vampire powers if you can enjoy food. I'll tell you why.

Because I'm not like, I don't have these morals that people have. I feel like there's plenty of motherfuckers that I would suck their blood. I have an endless... You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't have like... I don't have an endless...

There's plenty of people out there. Suck the blood. Okay? It's better for me, fly around, help people than you be around here. Fucking people up. Maybe when I was 20, like Charles, I'd have been like, oh, I'll take a moral stand.

I would never. Nah, some of y'all need your blood sucked. I'm going to be honest with you. All right. I'm also taking the powers, not because I have a list of people who I want exanguinated, because I've watched enough of vampire TV star David Boreannis as Angel, live the moral vampire life. You just need a blood bank connection, a blood bank hookup, get you some regular coolers full of blood bags. You're good.

you're fine. No moral conflict. Infinite powers. Love it. I'm in. I'm going to pass on the powers because of the weird bat face. It's too much. Bad face is bad. Too much. All right.

I think I know some of the answers for this next one based on those initial replies. The red or the blue? You're going to drink the red and go for full strength but moral ruin? Or are you going to drink the blue for moral superiority but, diminishing returns. Some of that vampiric dysfunction. We off the red. We're going crazy.

We're going to go out. We off that. Fuck the blue. We're going off that red. Wow. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.

Whoa. Whoa. Wow. Joanna. Joanna. Don't come to LA with that. Okay. Don't come be careful.

Because I could easily clip that. I see it to some of the homies over on swastling. I see it. You know what I'm saying? I see it. You know what I'm saying? I can sit. Whoa.

Yeah, we off that red over here, baby. Okay. So Van has the list of people that he wants to drink their blood. Joe, you just said you'd go for the blood bank connection. Charles, how are you getting your red? Oh, if my soul's already tarned for all eternity, we pop in. It's going to be like Blade. I'm going to be going to the club being like, all right.

Who look at Tasty tonight? A blood rave. Yeah. Mallory, what's your answer? I'd probably go for the red. I think I would start with like a week of the blue. I'd try, I'd give it my all. And that would be my version of like when I say I'm going to switch from my fourth coffee of the day to an afternoon tea and I can only keep it up for a day or two.

You know, I just, I don't have the strength or the willpower. It's like, it's like diet Coke, right? You drink, you go like, oh, I'm going to drink Diet Coke. You drink Diet Coke for like three days. You're like, hey, it's not bad. It's good, you know? And then all of a sudden, somebody slips you a real Coke and you're like, fuck. That first sip of a real cook, who!

You're like, you're like, Jesus. Right. Okay, next. Would you rather never again see the ocean, the open sea? Never again. Okay? In any way, can't be on it, can't be in it, can't look at it, or enjoy as much ocean goodness as you'd like,

but you have to go on Michael's experimental ocean barge in order to enjoy the ocean. Sea is overrated. I grew up in a beach town. I never need to see it again. I'm taking the boat. I'm taking the boat. Yeah, me too.

I've read Chris Ryan's gem, The Sea is dope back of the Gratlin days. I can't give it up. The mercenaries can go, but I'm taking the boat. I mean honest with you guys, I mean honest with you guys, because I think that there's a workaround.

I'm a river boy. See, I can go on a river or a big lake and I can feel that same thing. You know what I mean? I can shout out Lake Superior. Shout out like Erie, like Huron. you get out there.

You can't, sometimes that should be looking like the ocean a little bit. So I can still, I can take my yacht out there. I love it. Okay, we have two more. Would you rather kill your best friend to save the city or honor your lifelong bond by letting that best pal kill a lot of people and suck their blood? I had the perfect answer for this. If Van is out here, sucking everybody's blood, I'm going to let my man do.

what he did. Like, I trust, I'm like, you, you know, you do what you do in your personal time. As long as you show up to the midnight boys, we're cool. Like, I can't judge. You probably got a good reason for it. So here's the thing. I mean, yeah. You know, I got to try to stop you, though. You know what I got to? Like, I got to, I got to try to stop you, you know?

Unless you tell me that unless you got a list, you know what I'm saying? And like, you sucking, we talked about the blood, the people that are okay. unless they're cemented to, we gotta have a discussion about it. That's what I'm saying. I agree. I agree. If you want to be like a Dexter vampire

where you're only like sucking the blood out of like serial killers and other baddies, I'll be your accomplice. That's such. But also we're going to be real. What I would actually tell my friend is I'm like, look, you see these abs. You see these pecks.

We just got to go on Tinder. There are a lot of goth girls out there who would love to have their blood sucked. A lot of goth men. That don't work though because the dinosaurs Because the vampires go too far Every time they try to do that They can't stop

Yeah every time they just try to suck a little bit In this scenario it's a Milo type You know Just the thirst is insatiable No no no no Whatch McCauley? You could oh you just turn them You just turn them like Michael

You'd be like hey I need to suck your blood But you can be a vampire in return It's fine Mallory Mallory are you snitching on your best friend Or are you covering? I'm loyal I would stay true

I think We're all loyal red blood-sucking podcasters. Boy, this is a, all right. Finally, would you rather remain imprisoned, but be in the MCU? Or get to lead a new team-up push but have to be in the SSU. SSU. This is the tomb's quandary. Keep me out of the Sunniverse.

freedom I'm going to Spider-Man universe I'll go start up the sinister six I'm going to be real I'm going to be real with y'all if a 16-year-old

packing me up and putting me in prison shit I can't take that I can't take that out y'all So question would you rather rain and hell than serve in heaven you know what I?

Van ends the podcast calling the Sonyverse hell. But Morbius it is right now. All right. Any final thoughts before we wrap? I think we did it. I got a final thought. Sony. I need to call me.

I'll be honest with you. You guys need to call us. We could fix this. And when I say this, I say this with every ounce of arrogance that it sounds like I'm saying this. I don't feel like

I could do a worse I feel like I could do better. I'm not going to lie. I'll be honest with you. I feel like I could do better. I know you're going to be rude. I feel like I could do better. I feel like if they put us,

the ringerverse, collectively in charge of things, I feel like we could do a better job at this point. All right, Van, I'm going to pitch you on something really quick before we go. Sony, if you call me up, you can have this idea for free. All right, every three months,

what we're going to do? We're going to have a Miles Morales movie. We're going to have a Spider-Man, 29-9 movie. going to have superior Spider-Man movie. Just give me a new Spider-Man flavor every, every couple of years, okay? All of this, like, we don't know who our Spider-Man is. Everybody gets Spider-Man. Everybody gets a version of it.

They're going to have a team-up. It's going to be great. It'll be bigger than Spider-Man, No Way Home. I promise you, there are enough Spider-Man walking around here where we do not need a Madame web movie. Please, just give us a Spider-Woman movie. Like, what the fuck are we doing? Now you're against progress.

Because I want a Spider-Man, I want a Spider-Woman movie and not a Spider-Woman movie and not a Madame Webb, the blind, the blind old lady who sits in a chair and is like, I see, I see the webs of the future. I think it's going to be different. I don't want, I'm not saying that, Charles. You're, you're, uh, spider woman is right there. A spider girl is just there. We have all of these.

I'm trying to walk it back now. Sulk is right there. All right. Friends. Listeners. My co-hosts have just rejected their Nobel prizes. So that is a wrap on today. episode. Thank you to our living vampires, Steve Allman for producing this episode,

Arjuna Ram Gopal, for his additional production work on this episode, and Jomea Denneron for his work on the social for this episode. Remember, tune back in on Wednesday for the Midnight Boys' breakdown of Moonnight episode two, and then on Friday for the House of Our breakdown. Until then, remember, we went from potting to being more alive than ever. Charles, take us away. That was the Morvious pod, and we learned that sometimes it's okay to hate. I need y'all to tune back on Wednesday because the Midnight Boys will be addressing Screenergate. Feels like every product claims real protein these days. But Real doesn't start on a label.

It starts at the source. Like real California milk from California farm families, it's true. real dairy delivering high quality complete protein with all nine essential amino acids to help build muscle, give you energy, and keep you satisfied longer. So keep it real. Look for the seal. Real California milk.