The Ringer-Verse - ‘College Football 26’ and the Return of ‘Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater,’ Plus Tony Hawk Himself! | Button Mash

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

Ben Lindbergh and Van Lathan huddle up to discuss ‘EA Sports College Football 26,’ the sequel to last year’s bestselling comeback for the ‘College Football’ franchise, focusing on the depths of Van’s obsession, the series’ transition to an annual release schedule, and whether college basketball games will be the next to return. Then, Ben, Van, and Devon Renaldo discuss ‘Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 3 + 4,’ the best ‘THPS’ games, and gaming as a gateway to skating (32:50). Finally, Ben catches some air with the titular Tony Hawk, the skating/gaming legend, who weighs in on his ‘THPS’ history and the future of the franchise (62:03). Intro (00:00) ‘EA Sports College Football 26’ (09:30) College basketball games (24:28) ‘Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 3 + 4’ with Dev and Van (32:50) Interview with Tony Hawk (62:03) Host: Ben Lindbergh Guests: Tony Hawk and Van Lathan Producer: Devon Renaldo Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Olivia Crerie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everyone? It's Rachel Lindsay, and if you love all things Bravo, then you need to be listening to Morley Corrupt. Every Tuesday and Friday, your favorite ringer podcasters and I dive into Bravo's biggest moments and dish out hot and always unfiltered takes. And guess what? Now you can watch us too. That's right, Morley Corrupt is now available in video on Spotify. So whether you're listening in your family van or watching next to your white refrigerator, don't be all uncool. and miss out. Catch new episodes every Tuesday and Friday, only on the Ringer Reality TV feed. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimphia. Proper training is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative

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I am Ben Lindberg, senior editor for the ringer button mash play caller and coming through the transfer portal. Join me today from Higher Learning in the Midnight Voice. It's Supervan Lathan. Hey Ben. What's going on, brother? How are you doing today, Big Cull, Lindberg? I'm doing well, but not as well as you. This is the summer of Van. Everything is coming up Van right now.

Superman is out. Superman is good. There's a new college football 26. Oh, Daddy. Everything is just, how do you even decide what you want to do first? You're just presented with a wealth of entertainment options. It's been a challenge, but I'm the kind of guy that's up to that challenge. Yeah.

Superman rocked my socks off. But then Big Cudlinberg came in was like, Van, I need your own button mash. I need your on Budmash to talk about the game. And that game is college football 26. And really, to be honest with you, it's not just a video game. It's a cultural movement.

It signals the beginning of the college football season. Honestly, it does. We're going to play by the time the actual season starts, going to know our rosters and our players so well, it's going to be second nature. Yeah. Also, it signals that we're back again and that the game was successful and we knew that we will be waiting for the next installment and we got it and it's good. Oh, extremely successful.

Record-settingly successful. And this was not a tough sell. I did not have to twist your arm to come on and talk about college football 26. South of midnight, I had to send a few texts. I think you're glad I did in the long run. But you weren't sure until you dove in college football 26. That's a gimmy. And I wanted to ask you something, just how your enthusiasm for a blockbuster movie,

let's say, that you're really looking forward to. How does that compare to your anticipation for a game that you know is going to be great that you know you're going to love? Because Superman, great time at the movies, but two hours, right? Maybe you'll go back and see it a few times. Maybe you'll watch it later at home. Maybe you'll return to it for years. but the total time that you will spend watching Superman will pale in comparison to how much time you will spend watching and playing college football 26 in the next week, probably, right?

So how psych do you get for a new game compared to something that in terms of total running time just can't even hold a candle to an obsession and addiction like college football for you? This is why we come to you, Ben. Yeah. Because you put things in context. Yeah, I'm making a case for video games just being the most important entertainment medium. Just total time suck. Ben, I'm being honest with you, there's really no comparison. There's no comparison to the amount of time that I'm going to spend not just playing the dynasty, but playing online versus maybe messing around with the ultimate team until I realize I don't understand it.

playing mini games. The first thing I do to play the game to make sure that the game still plays in the way that I remember is to play the mini games. You go get familiar with the new features, the way that the game moves. All of that, just the tinkering.

The tinkering takes longer than any Hollywood blockbuster. I think the difference is the anticipation that goes into the Hollywood blockbuster is a little bit different. You're thinking, will it be good? You wonder about the feeling that you're going to have

when you finally have all the questions that you have drumming around in your mind about the movie when they're answered. How are you going to feel? You think about the ritual of going to the movies and having a piece of popcorn and you're eating the nachos and all of that. But with this game,

you think about how you're going to win. I spent so much time. I watched YouTube videos. I talked to people. I play with people. There were people. I'm not going to mention their names. Brady Hart.

the homie on Twitter that when I first started playing the game, I was getting crushed. But before you know it, I figured out my offense. I figured out my flow. I figured out my personnel. I figured out my favorites. I was able to get into a 12 to 15 play script to start the game. Then would play the game based upon the balance that the other guy was giving me,

started to understand which guys I could throw to at what time and what kind of plays, how to use the tight in, how to run the ball effectively, all of those things. And guess what? I get to learn them again because the game has been reincarnated into a new being. And I can't got it and wait. What a thrill. I guess the other difference is that everyone experiences Superman at the same time in sort of the same way. At least you're watching it. Everyone interprets it differently, receives it differently.

But a video game, people get to it at different times. They're playing different modes. They're progressing at a different pace. Whereas you can have a cultural conversation. about a blockbuster movie. Not that everyone sees it opening weekend and people are afraid of spoilers, but you can. You can go see it and you can participate in the discourse. You can listen to the midnight boys. You can be a midnight boy. You can talk about these things. It's a little tougher with a video game. When do you talk about it? When do people pick it up? How quickly are they playing

it? What system are they playing it on? Right. So it's a little less synchronized in terms of when everyone experiences that thing. It is. It is. And it's a little bit more versatile. There are some people that are going to get on this game and play it as meditation. Yeah. You know, some people are going to get on there and do the gauntlet the whole time.

Some people I know only play the gauntlet. He's talking to a guy. Well, a while ago, I'm like, you want to play? It's like, you play the game. It's like, and I'll only do the gauntlet. You only do the gauntlet. What are you talking about? You only do the gauntlet.

He's like, I get on there and I do the gauntlet. I play the mini games. like, that's stupid. Different strokes for different folks. I'm like, that's stupid. Grab Florida, get on the game with me right now. Like, nope, I only play the gauntlet. But, you know, the game is, it allows you to have the experience that you want with it.

Some people are really into the ultimate team stuff. I don't understand it. I really don't. The ultimate team stuff is like the end of my tolerance with any of these types of games. I don't do the ultimate team stuff. I get it. It's a big deal for people. But there's one thing I love more than anything.

about this game. And it's so weird that this is my favorite thing about the game. I love crouten. I love crouten. What I love to do is to try to get the best class on the dynasty mode,

the number one class. Because that's one of the hardest things to do. All of you bums that jump on, you want to play against me, Padawan 4116 gamer tag. I'll take you one in a time. I'll take you out to the woodshed. I'll show you how we're doing in Baton Rouge.

That's nothing. What's tough to do is to get a five, Five star from Wisconsin to sign to LSU. That's tough. You got to, is it the hard sell? Is it the soft sell? Do you bring the house? When do you schedule a visit?

Who are you scheduling the visit with? How do you get, when do you offer the scholarship? These are the things that the game for people that are in the college football, that are college football junkies like me, has been able to reproduce that really make me keep coming back to it. Because playing the game is so much fun. You want to get these guys' houses. but I've won like five Hysmans in a row.

I've had like three or four undefeated seasons. You know, I win the Housman on defense. I've had three or four different defensive hisbands that we've won. But getting that number one recruiting class, getting the recruits, getting that five star, that's tough. And that's what I like, Ben. Yeah. You're on the forums. You're on the message boards, tracking the classes, the under the table payments, the NIL.

Yeah. I'm upgrading my coach because the coach, I need more. recruiting time. I need more hours to be able to spend. I need to be able to scout people better. Sometimes I'll do the scouting, get the red X instead of the green thing, and I'll recruit them anyway

just because I want the five star, because I want the number for the class for the crew. I should belatedly set the scene here. We don't devote a lot of episodes to sports games here at Buttmash, but two big games came out last week. EA Sports College Football 26, which we've been talking about. And Tony

Hawks Pro Skater 3 plus 4. The remake of a couple of Tony Hawks skating classics. These are two seminal sports games, two games with excellent soundtracks, two cultural events. So we're talking about CFB first. Then we will bring in producer Devin Ronado, who will talk to us about Tony Hawk. We'll go over the new remake. Devin's into skating, skating culture can provide that perspective. And I've buried the lead.

but the Birdman himself, Tony Hawk, will be here at the tail end of this episode. To talk about the making of this game and his close connection to the franchise after all these years. So we did actually make an exception to our not many sports episodes soft rule here on this podcast last year when college football 25 came out because that was a massive event that shook the landscape of sports games because that had been the first time in more than a decade that we could. got a new college football game. And it was massively successful, as you alluded to. This was the second best-selling game of 2024 after Blackop Six. You're a college duty guy too. It was the best-selling sports game of all time. It was one of the 50 best-selling games of all time, period. Oh, daddy. So this was huge. This was sensational. It was not just you treating this game like a full-time occupation.

It was a lot of other people, too. So it was not just the pent-up demand from not having had a college football game for years and years, but also that that long lull gave EA time to really reinvent the franchise and actually do something new and different, more so than you can typically do with that iterative has to come out every year like clockwork. You're tinkering, but it's not really a ground-up rebuild. And so here we are with the sequel. the second game in this revamped franchise.

And so now it's kind of a consolidation year, right? You don't have as high ambitions, maybe, as you did, when you're just coming back into this genre after a long time away. You just want to move the ball forward. You want positive yardage. You want to improve upon the previous edition, give people reasons to get the game. So how well, based on your playing of CFR. FB 26 so far.

Do you think it does that actually sets itself apart? Okay. So I have some things to say about things that I noticed that they've done that I like. Okay. So in the first game, let's just talk to Crouton. In the first game, I had to legitimately get a notebook to keep up with my crouton. Yeah. To keep up with my positions and where I need to recruit players and what my numbers are.

Because I got to a point in my, like, third championship season, three Pete. to where I didn't have any fullbacks at all. I had forgotten to recruit fullbacks. Because I'm trying to, you know. It's a problem. It's a problem, right? I'm trying to, I got a couple of sets. I don't have a ton of sets where I need the fullback.

I got a couple of sets why I need the fullbacks. And you need a couple of fullbacks on your team. So then I'm in a scramble. I got to go get some fullbacks and all that. This game is actually on top of your recruiting prospect page, right? The page where you go and you select. If you guys don't know how to recruit and works in college football, there's a prospects page where there are red indicators by players' names that say need

and let you know when you need someone, right? You don't always have to go and grab those players because you need them. Maybe you want a player, maybe you want to, you know, bolster numbers at one petition, so you don't have to recruit anybody who don't want to recruit. But you put a target next to someone, then that person becomes a part of your recruiting, I guess, schedule, and then you scout them, you can DM them, all different types of actions you can do to recruit that player.

Now, in this game, on top of the prospect page, there is a list of numbers that you have appositions and players that you need to recruit. If you need to recruit two quarterbacks, it says zero for two, right? Zero of two. And then let you know, you need two quarterbacks that you want to have in this class. then you decide how you're going to recruit those numbers. Are you going to recruit four to get two? Are you going to recruit two that you know are coming to your school?

Or are you going to recruit the players that best fit your scheme and are coming through your pipeline? But any way that you do it, it's a lot easier to see it on screen, which, by the way, if you were the head coach of a college football team, you wouldn't have to produce those numbers for yourself. there would be somebody that would do exactly what the game is now doing for you. It's very important. Something else. During the actual gameplay. Now, there are some people that say that some of the things that existed in college football 25 that they didn't like still exist in this game.

I haven't played enough to really be able to say whether that's true or not. I do know that LSU has no offensive line. And I'm in hell right now. If the season plays out the way this game is playing out right now, I mean for a long season. But there is something on the game that allows you to make substitutions as part of an on-screen prompt while the plays are happening or just before the snap of the ball.

And let me tell you why that's important to me. So college football, unlike Madden, the players really suffer, in my opinion, real wear and tear throughout the game. There's real wear and tear throughout the game to the point to where I was playing somebody on the previous game and we hit his quarterback and the QB fumbled.

He got back on top of it and he goes and subs that guy out right away. That guy had just been beat up too much to stay in that game, right? Madden, there's wear and tear throughout the game, true. But in college football, is really pronounced. So having something to where you can and quickly recognize that a player needs to come out of the game, right?

And then press up on the controller, sub that player out, and either go hurry up to continue to have your team on the field. So I can sub a guy out, just run him off the field, and have somebody else run back on the field. And if I have the defense in the defense that I like or in the defense of personnel scheme that I like, I can go right back to that play rather than having to go back to my screen and interrupting the momentum that I have on offense.

That is very key. Right. Very, very key. That's one real specific gameplay thing that I notice is a little bit different. And they've smoothed the game out a little bit, particularly on defense, controls of my defensive backs and putting my players in places where they need to be. I think they figured that out. The pass blocking is still not something on the game that seems to be a priority.

You're going to have to get rid of the ball fast. The run blocking is all going to be attribute dependent, if you ask me. But it feels like the game's moving a little bit smoother. I have to play a little bit more. And I'm sure you will. But it feels like the game's moving a little bit smoother. I like these upgrades. I like where we're at, Ben.

I like where we're at. It's more incremental, probably, because last year it was like people were happy to have any new college football game. That's not to say they would have enjoyed anything. it was a good game, but just giving people that after so long of nothing, that was huge. Now, you have to earn people's payment every year. And like clockwork, it's all right, it's July. It's another summer rolling around. It's time for another edition of college football.

And that clock is hanging over your head if you're developing this game and you know that you can only change so much given that development time frame. And it does seem like they've just made a lot of changes. The user interface, as you said, there's just kind of an ease to it. There's more of an emphasis on rivalries, a lot of specific trophies for regional matchups. There's, as you said, like expanded playbooks, the transfer portal revamped, more coaches, more mascots, just more of everything, more realistic. There's a day-night cycle, you know, it gets darker while you're playing a game. It's just more authentic tackles and interceptions and animations.

these are maybe more minor tweaks. You're kind of transitioning to just iterative releases where you're just trying to make minor upgrades. You're trying to, as I said, just kind of gain yardage each time this thing comes out. And so I wonder if at some point it stops feeling as fresh because that was the thing. Like last year it felt so different

from every other sports franchise where you just get your cookie cutter release. It's another year. It's time for another Madden. It's time for another whatever it is. and often it looks sort of similar to the way it was before. And if there's no competition, if you have a monopoly on a certain sport or a certain league, then no one's really pushing you to improve because it's literally the only game in town.

So will college football fall into that cycle at some point? Will it get complacent because it's kind of cornered that market? Maybe. But it doesn't seem like that's happened yet. Well, this is what I'll say. The tension in these games is always roster update versus full new game. As long as I've asked ourselves, we say, you know, we will be into paying like 10 bucks, 15 bucks for a roster update. You drop the game every two years when you've really had a chance to work on things that are going to be all new and all fresh.

You know what I mean? Yep. But, you know, can you make a game that is worthy of having been made by putting stuff in the game or figuring out things about that game that make it a better experience from the last one? other than just having the newer players on there, something that we could get through a roster update. Yeah. Now, for me, they've done things on the game right now that weren't on there the last time.

So I'm like, oh, I like this better. We'll see how that changes as I get into the online modes, as I get deeper into Dynasty, as I get deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. Now, I'll say something about the past game. It's an admission that I've never really said publicly. before. Wow.

You speak quite openly on podcasts. It's one of the things people like about you. So this is a deep, dark secret that you've never confessed before. But match exclusive. I'm bracing myself. But match exclusive about the last game. I never used any team last year other than LSU. That's football monogamy.

You're a loyal, faithful man. I didn't play one snap. And I'm telling you guys, I'm being for real. I didn't play one snap. One snap with any other team other than LSU. I didn't play with anybody else. Every time I played online, it was with LSU. Every time I played Dynasty or whatever, it was in LSU.

The ultimate team that I started and stopped all LSU. LSU, LSU, LSU, LSU, LSU, LSU, LSU, LSU. this game. I'm going to mix it up a little bit. Okay. I'm going to stay true to my tigers, who have a lot of players coming in from the transfer portal,

different things like that. I'm stay true to my tigers. But I am going to play with, I think, every school in the SEC just to see how things go. Because I only played with LSU last year. I played a bunch of games, guys. I played the game a lot.

A lot. A lot, guys. Only LSU. If you were in front of your system right now, I would ask you to check your total playtime. I need that hour count. You'll have to report back to me later. Where can you do that at? I'll send you a link.

You can figure it out. We can see the depths of your obsession with this series. Yeah, for sure. This is like me with original Smash Brothers. Sometimes I stray, I try a new character, but I always come back to DK, Donkey Kong. He's my main. He's not a good character. Check the tier list.

He's down there. but I've just formed a special bond and attachment to him. All the items are no items when you play. No items when I'm playing seriously with my smash friends. Then it's all about the skills. Wow. No items.

Items inject randomness into it. It's all about testing our moves, our prowess with the controller. That's what comes down to. Yeah. Did college football sap some of your enthusiasm for Madden? Are you over Madden now? because you're such a college football 25-26 guy?

I didn't play one game of Madden last year. Wow. Wow. I bought the bundle. One team. One game. Yep. I bought the bundle and I never played Madden.

Never. I never played Madden. I mean, remember now, I like the NFL football just fine, but I am a college football fan. Like, think of the NFL as a hamburger, with no cheese. Okay.

I mean, you'll eat it if there are not cheeseburgers. Right? You'll eat it. In a pinch. There's nothing wrong. You can eat a hamburger

with no cheese and be like, oh, it's great. It's pretty good. It's a cheeseburger. The cheeseburger changed the game. It's a cheeseburger. You know what I'm saying? It's a cheeseburger. And college football is my cheeseburger.

The NFL is a hamburger. If there are no cheeseburgers, I'll eat it. I watch it. I like a hamburger. hamburger. It's a good, you know, different and green food's avocado on there, whatever you want. But like, it, college football is my cheeseburger.

So I didn't play last week. Now, last year, now I will say that like, maybe that needs to change too because falling away from my Madden game. It's tough. But I didn't play the whole year, bro. I didn't play at all, man. I only played college football. You were not the only one, I think, to abandon one EA sports football franchise for another. Madden just, it felt. felt the opposite of fresh the way that college football did. Just running it into the ground, just running back the same play year after year.

Then college football comes along. This is the new hotness. And now 26 is the even newer hotness. So before we transition to Tony Hawk here, wanted to ask you about the next frontier, the next development in college sports video games. Basketball. Oh, daddy.

Basketball is coming back because probably spurred by the success of college football. 25, EA is getting back into the college basketball game. In addition to reviving skate, another long-dormant skating franchise, it's the skate asance, not just Tony Hawk, but also skate. The new skate supposedly coming to early access very soon, but back to basketball. They tweeted at the end of June, bring the madness, let's run it back. Hashtag, CBB, hashtag, it's in the game. It's been even longer since the last NCAA basketball. That was NCAA basketball 10. This is before Ed O'Bannon.

This was before NIL, before any of that, 16 years ago. And it's the first, I guess, basketball game overall. I mean, NBA Live 19, seven years ago for EA, 2K has cornered that market. So EA starts teasing that they're bringing NCAA basketball back. Shortly after that, 2K starts teasing. that they might counter with their own basketball game. They responded to someone on Twitter. They said the campus has been quiet for too long.

2K has been out of the college basketball game game for even longer. That goes back to college hoops 2K8 for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. So coming at some point soonish in the next couple years, it sounds like we will have at least one college basketball game, maybe dueling college college. basketball games back. How does the excitement for this compare to your excitement for college football? Zero. So let me tell you why.

I don't play basketball games. Okay? I don't play basketball games. And there are three people who are to blame for this. Dedrick Beasley. Ryan Davenport. Okay. And Justin.

I can remember my friend Justin's name from college. Okay. but so we would go over to Dedrick's house, me and Ryan. Dedrick Beasley was the older brother of Jason Beasley, who was in our grade and was our friend. Dedrick was his big brother. Jason was very serious about things, so he didn't play very many video games,

but we and Ryan did, and we would play with his older brother, Dedrick, and there was a game where, and it was NBA live, and I was getting just destroyed by Dedrick, and I got mad, and I left. Got up and I left. And when I was leaving the house, Dedrick was screaming from the front.

He was going, Shaq Fool! He was saying that because I had shaved my head that summer and people were saying that I looked like Shaq. And he had beat me with the magic. And he was going, Shaq Fu! Penny! And he was screaming that to me.

And I didn't want to play no more live. That was it for you. And then the coach Kay came. the coach k came and on the coach k they had ucla versus Arkansas because those are the teams I was on there I was trying to play it but ryan would do this thing where he would get under the basket on live with charles warkland just fake fake fake fake fake and then dunk

he would do that every time and I couldn't understand how to do it I couldn't understand how to stop it so stop playing basketball games now when I play the 2k it's very complicated and I don't understand how to play it right i don't understand i play basketball games play a little FIFA but my sports are now MLB the show

2025 Right That's my team I haven't played with any other Other than the Dodgers at this point And football

basketball games If you guys want to play me in basketball And you Don't see me on there You blame Dedrick Beasley Ryan Davenport

And Justin Real quick before we go Because I got Yeah But there was a game This was one of the All-time Video Game moments

Of all time Freshman year Louisiana So we played 2K. They'll play 2K basketball. I will watch. By this time, my no basketball thing had already happened. Justin had the, I'll never forget this. Justin had the, the Portland Trailblazers. And Ryan had the San Antonio Spurs. Okay. Okay. Ryan won in basketball games. Ryan's my best friend. He won about 75 to 80% of the time.

that we played. He won a lot. But in this game, Ben, Tim Duncan got hurt about one or two minutes into the game. And Ryan was like, you know, man, Timmy got hurt. Let's start this bitch open.

You can't do that. And we was like, no. Like, hell no. That's the first. There ain't no star no. What the hell you're talking about? He's like, oh, hell no. Hell no.

And dreams happen. It's part of the square. Our Vitas a bonus for the Trailblazers had like 40 and 16. And Justin won. And we, Ryan is my very best friend in life. I love Ryan. I talk to him every day. Like my best friend, I talk to him every day.

We rejoiced. So that tells you. that for a long time, I have been a spectator in basketball video games. But I haven't played one in a long time. They're too complicated. All it took was one shack taunt,

and you rage quit college basketball and all college basketball games and all basketball games for all time. You don't understand, though. I was walking, leaving the house. I was leaving the house. I had already lost. I'm like, I'm out.

I'm done. Dedrick was not a good sport, man. Like, I was beating Dedrick in the Madden one time, and I was about to beat him. I had like a 12-yard field goal or something like that. I was about to hit this full goal. We're going home, right? And as I'm about to kick the field goal, Dedrick starts pausing the game. And so I'm like, yo, what's you doing?

And he's like, yeah, he's like, I want to win. I'm like, bro, stop pausing the game while I'm trying to do my kick. I made the kick, but Dedrick was a sore loser. So I'm walking away, and I'm walking down the block, and he's yelling Shack fool. That haunts you to this day. And it haunts me to this day and I just, I can't, I can't get back on the basketball game, bro,

because of the Shack Fu Penny from Dedrick Beasley. Dedrick, no relation to Michael or Malik? No relation to none of them. Mm-hmm. He was a, he ran track, but he is the one. All right. Different Beasleys. All right.

It is amazing how games from your youth will stick with you forever. You take that to the. grave, just specific video game experiences. It has some stay in power. All right. Well, maybe the new college basketball games can get you back into basketball, the way that college football 25 got you back into college football gaming. We'll see.

That'll be the ultimate test. All right. Let's talk some Tony Hawk. Usually we would do programming notes and teases here as a transition, but guess what? There's nothing. Nothing coming this week. This is it. This is all you're getting.

This is Wellness Week at Spotify and at the Ringer. We're recording because we're unwell, I guess. This is it. The feed will be quiet for the rest of this week. We'll give people a breather. And then we'll all be back next week. Midnight boys, Pew Poo, we'll be back. Mint Edition.

Button mash. We'll be talking Donkey Kong Bonanza. House of our continuing hot Nolan summer, etc. San Diego ComicCon coming soon. You can contact us at Ringiverse Gaming at Gmail. dot com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess.

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Sweetgreen.com. All right, it's time for some Hawk talk. And before Tony Hawk himself swoops in, I figured we could talk among ourselves about the Tony Hawk's pro skater series and the latest, greatest remake. Van is still here, but we're also bringing in producer Devin Ronaldo, our regular producer here at Button Mash, who happens to be a huge Hawkhead to discuss this game in the series

and actually lend this segment some. authentic skater cred. Welcome, Devin. Thank you. So this is my Nintendo Dog's episode. We never did. You know, this is my Christmas, my New Year's, my Hanukkah, all of it. So thanks for having me. So happy we could make this happen for you. And so you can tell us what it's like to actually land a trick on a skateboard, which is not something that I can speak to from personal experience. What about you, Van? Any skating experience in your life? Try it one time.

Yeah. guessing it didn't go great. There wasn't the sequel. No, it's difficult. And I think part of the thing with skateboarding is having the dedication to get through the difficult time. And I didn't have it. Yeah. There you go.

That's what makes the video game version of skating so nice. It's a little bit easier. It's a little less painful, fewer scraped knees. I've never actually seen a skater land a trick in. real life. My conspiracy theory is that no non-professional skater has ever successfully landed a trick. But you probably have, Devin. I've landed a couple tricks in my day. It depends on, you know, there's many different versions of skating, right? So what being in this game is a combination of what Tony does best, which is vert. So those really big ramps are you doing iconic tricks? Well,

some of us, not all skaters, but the 900, you know, where you're on these mega ramps and you're spinning and flipping and doing tail grabs holding onto the ledge of the ramp. And then you have stuff that you might see in a day-to-day skate park, and that's all the street. So I was a big ramp skater. I don't skate as much anymore because, as Van notably just pointed out, it is a, I kind of like to think of skating like golf. And I like to think of that with this game as well, is that you're playing against yourself. You can get better over time. but you're not sinking buckets and threes.

It's not an instant rat. But when you do land that trick, it is the best feeling in the world. So get on a skateboard, go try it out. Even when you land that first kickflip, oh my gosh, it's amazing. When or if, if you land that first kickflip? Yeah, it takes the case for me. I think that board has sailed. I think we're a little too old, possibly, to clip for the first time or attempt to,

but not too old, never too old, to play. Tony Hux, Pro Skater. What's your THPS experience, Van? Did you play back in the day? Man, something happened. And people were playing the game, but I had never played it. And then I was over at my cousin's house,

and they were playing it, but then they had left, and I picked it up and started playing it. And it was so fun. I didn't really know what to make of the game, because I'm like, why would I want to play a skateboarding game when I don't know anything about skateboarding.

Yeah. But once you start doing the tricks and stringing the tricks together and you're making all kinds of crazy stuff, you're grinding rails, all of that, you're getting points and you're doing them on top of each other, it's one of those really addictive video games to where you want to get to a point to where you're really good at it. Other games, you want to get to a point to where you're good enough

to beat the people that are in front of you. But like Devin says, in Tony Hawk, you want to be gooder than you were the day before, which is very awesome. So I played it probably for about six months, but then I never went back to it because it was just, football games just got me in a chokehold. Yeah.

Do you remember when this was or which game this was or which system this was? I'm pretty sure this was Xbox. Would have had to have been Xbox. I don't remember. But I'm pretty sure that this was the Xbox. We didn't, we're anti-Soney. Well, no, we're not. But we were then.

And we were playing everything pretty much Halo and Halo adjacent. So I'm pretty sure it was the Xbox. Dev, this was a gateway game for you, not a gateway to gaming, but to skating, to actual real-life skating, which we just established is like golf with greater injury risk. When did you hop on the board virtually? Man, I think that this is a twofold answer. And I think that it speaks to why the game is so prolific. And to me, maybe it's a hot take,

why I think it's one of the greatest games ever made, is it gave you access, right? If you were a kid in New York and it was too snowy, you could go play Tony Hawk and you could be on a skateboard. If you were in Brazil and you wanted to go to America and become a professional skater, which, you know, I think we could get to it at some point with how this game is kind of transcended beyond just the screen. That was a possibility for you.

For me, the game initially came out when I was about four years old, and my mom was not going to let me go on a skateboard. So I remember seeing it, seeing the possibilities, and we kind of briefly touched on it. I grew up in the back end of the 90s in the early 2000s, where the conversation around skateboarding was starting to boom because of Tony Hawk. And I was watching shows like Rocket Power on Nickelodeon. So this action sports wave, you guys remember, now I'm on a tangent, but that movie on Disney that was like Johnny Tsunami, and he went from skating to surfing, and then he was back on board in the second movie.

I grew up around it. And so for me, I was maybe about six or seven by the time I actually got my first board. And then as I kind of got older, that expanded into me going into parks and skating. but it wasn't really, if not for the conversations that started happening in the mainstream kind of push of skate culture, which by the way is everywhere. And we can touch more on that later. But skating is in everything that we do.

So for me, once I saw it and once I saw how cool it could be and that it was a sport that you could actively get better at, you didn't have to be the best. But as long as you had the board, you look cool, right? It taught me so much about my own physicality and discipline. And yeah, if it wasn't for me seeing my brothers initially play the game, I would have had really no desire or urge to go and kind of go big as Tony does. I definitely look cooler carrying the board than trying to get on it. That's where any coolness would end.

What was peak Tony Hawk's pro skater for you? When did the franchise reach its pinnacle? I mean, I think the second game is probably the one that's the most iconic. And I think that was PS2. And I think that was the first one that introduced online play, like playing with other people. That I thought was really cool. For me, my favorite is four because what I found recently in picking it back up was that these two-minute arcade-style runs, I suck out.

Oh, my God. I'm so bad at an arcade run. So it's one of the mods that I went in and messed with. And so I can do like a 10-minute run, but a two-minute run is just impossible, especially if you're rusty. So I liked Ford because it was objective-based, and it didn't really follow the norm of the first three games. And to me, that was more fun because you kind of got to interact in the world

of skating a little bit more rather than doing the two-minute runs and trying to get as many goal, knock as many goalposts off as you could. Yeah, I think two and three would be. probably be the most common answers if you surveyed all Tony Hawk pro skater fans. But four was, yeah, four was a bit different. Four kind of a different vibe opened up the format a little bit. And I like that too because time limits, countdowns in games sort of stress me out, which is not great because so many games have them. But I felt that way about Jet Set Radio and JetSet Radio future, to name another kind of skating game, where the original had timed limits, and then

the Xbox sequel to the original Dreamcast game did not. And you could really explore. You could just skate around, which is like half the fun of a Tony Hawk game. I mean, part of it is, yes, stringing the combos together, doing all the tricks, trying to do it under two minutes. But when it actually pulled back a bit and had more of an open world aspect, it was just more of a hangout game, which I really appreciated. Yeah, I think I spent the most time in picking this game back up in the tutorial re-learning how to do grinds and combos and, you know, acid drops. And then just skating in the free play, in the free zones. Because you have access to some of the best spots.

Like I was skating airport all weekend. I really loved it. It's just like, when do you get to skate in an airport? The zoo obviously is another iconic level. But I spent a lot of time just doing that. And again, it's seeing what you can do, seeing how you can push your skater. I love the free zones and, you know, not that the levels aren't cool. It does, again, give you those objectives that you want to hit.

But there's something nice about just being able to cruise. Yeah, Van, I don't know if you played the remake, but it does have that same feel. It's like, it's a great pick-up and play game. It's hard to master, but easy to have fun with. So no prior experience, no prior skating experience, no prior gaming experience. it just feels fun to handle and control. There's just like something very satisfying and tactile about the experience of Tony Hawk

that I think has stood the test of time, but I guess that's what the younger van felt when you picked that up for the first time and we're like, why would I play this? And then you get your hands on that controller and you're skating around. And it's just hard to put the controller down until college football comes around.

It's not the first skating game I ever played. The first skating game I ever play was against named called Skater Die that they had back in the late 80s, early 90s. Played that one for a little while. But skating was ubiquitous back in the day. The movie called Gleaming the Cube, which is the first time I ever saw Tony Hawk. He was in that movie, Bit Part. It's about Christian Slater, who was using his skateboarding skills to investigate

the murder of his stepbrother, his half brother, his adopted brother, whichever one it was. It's a very intriguing film that had to do a lot to do with skate culture. It was one part of the movie where they rode around on helicopters and they were looking for empty pools in the backyards of Southern California so they could go skate, tread, rip, shreth an R. Okay. All these things are happening. For me, I love video games about stuff I don't know that much about,

but I can see on television. And this is some, this is kind of silly, but like when you're watching somebody do like a Christ air, right? and you see the guy who does the Chrysary, he jumps, and you're like, I'm never going to do that. Being able to land it in the game is pretty awesome. I played the game a little bit last night.

Well, not a little bit. Actually, a lot last night. I'm a little delirious because I didn't get very much sleep last night. I noticed something. So, you know, Budmash is fucking me up. All right?

Because I went on my list of games on Xbox and it's like, it's Marvel versus Capcom. It's south of midnight, which I'm still playing, you know, which I wouldn't be playing these games and not getting stuff done that I need to get done if not for buttonash, right? And so I went last night and after I was done playing through college football, which I'm going to do, then started playing Tony Hawk. And I had lost like three hours in no time. Yeah. Because I had to watch all this.

I had to watch all the Superman. movies this past week to do the big pick so i watched all of the movies i watched all the movies and i got off i'm okay sunday i'm gonna be finished i'm gonna start playing video games like one o'clock then get to it to like three o'clock started playing college football playing a lot make my dynasty i'm getting enough and then after that i'm like let me get back into tony hawk it's about eight thirty nine get till let's play 45 minutes of tony hawk so i know what i'm talking about and then before you know it i'm sitting there and the dolls looking at me everybody's waiting for me to go to sleep, and I'm still playing a game trying to land tricks and do all kinds of crazy shit.

You know, and so it's just a fun video game. It's fun. Tony Hawk is a name that everybody knows. He's a big time celebrity. He's a type of guy that everybody will want to skate like. He's the ambassador of skate culture to mainstream America, maybe to the world, right? And you just want to skate like him. The game is just fucking fun.

The controls are very intuitive. You learn quickly, but you don't master easily, which is always good for a video game. Yeah. I told you when I was sending the codes to these games last week, I felt a little bit guilty. Like I was enabling. I was leading you astray. I was like your dealer sending you college football codes before they hit the street. And then you'd text back, oh, daddy.

And I can't imagine what voice. But I'm happy to hear, I guess. I'm glad that this had the intended effect, but a little bit worried about what other effects it might have on your life now that I've opened this door for you. But that's what gaming is. Like it's aspirational, right? Like you, there's a whole genre in games that are just simulators of like real life and real life jobs and occupations without the stakes of real life. And people enjoy that too. But also, sometimes it's aspirational doing something that you could never do in real life,

without severely injuring yourself. And skating is one of that things, one of those things for us. And that makes it perfect. Yeah. And these new games, I don't know what your impression was. Dev, you were playing it for Switch. I was playing it for PS5. Van, I guess you were playing it for Xbox.

And in some ways, these are pretty faithful remakes of three and four. It's obviously a lot of the same characters and environments and, you know, looking like a modern game does instead of a, a game from the early 2000s. But it's not just a faithful remake. There's new songs, sometimes by the same artist. There's new skaters. There's a skate park creator.

There's online co-op free skate. There are also some absences, some things that were left out, particularly of four, which was kind of the controversial choice. What you were just saying, Dev, about what's set four apart. They kind of crammed four into the box of the, one to three two minute timer. There's an extended timer. You can now skate for up to an hour,

but they have kind of stripped out the open world and the quest giving from four, which was one of the things that sort of set it apart. And so people who played four decades ago and appreciated that aspect of things, sort of sorry that that didn't make the cut for the remakes. But other than that, pretty faithful, still feels like Tony Hawk still that very much.

much pick it up, can't put it down kind of sensation. Yeah. I mean, that for me was like the things that annoyed me, I was glad that I could go on a mod. I hated the default skate speed. I thought it was just too slow. You know, you talk about, again, the realism of the game. You can skate pretty fast. You have the right bearings.

I did once skate for an hour on a level. I think it was just way too long. So I changed it to 10. I have to say, you know, as far as the game goes in terms of being a remake and did I think it was interesting, did I think it was faithful? Absolutely. The one criticism I really have for the game is with the players, right? Like, and that's only, it's such a niche complaint because I'm in the skate world. But if I said names like, man, Mommy Tizuka's not in the game. Current Capels isn't in the game. Sky Brown. These names probably mean nothing to most

people, but just a guy kitty, you know, there's skaters in this game. Yeah, there you go. Check him out. actually, he landed Tony Hawk's 900 in front of him at like 12 years old. Like these are some of the best up-and-coming skaters that, you know, you wonder if the game is going to have a future, if we'll see more skate games. Maybe these will be the people that are, you know, the forefront of the skate movement are included in that game. But like, if I can walk away and my only complaints is like, hey, it was really fun. I wish there were more people and more skaters.

I think you've done a damn good job. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's always kind of a push and pull. How faithful do you want to be with a remaster remake? Do you want to preserve it exactly as it was, how you remember it in your mind's eye, where you sort of update the graphics, but then you go back and play the original and it looks like it looks like you just want to look like you remember it looking back then? Or do you want to modernize it?

Do you want to have quality of life improvements? Do you want to make it less punishing? There's a whole debate about that. And sometimes I appreciate it. It's just perfectly preserved. this is exactly what it was, just better and more modern looking. And sometimes it's just not completely replicating. And it's hard to replicate just like where you were in life at that time is the other thing.

It's just like, you know, you can play an album for someone and they might say that's a great album. But if they didn't listen to it when they were in high school when you did, when it meant a lot, when it was always on the car stereo when you were driving around, you know, it has some nostalgia, some extra resonance for you that's hard to read. recreate. Yeah, for me, I was looking for the skaters that I knew, Billy Marchon, Cango Red, Dick Lasseter. Yeah. I'm sorry. I was just making guys up. But a part of going back and revisiting old video games in all seriousness,

is to see if the games have been able to do something which is really difficult to do, which is bottle nostalgia. When the emulators first came out, I was like, oh my God, you're telling me that I can download every single Nintendo game that I've ever played and have it on this one small file

and play them all whenever I wanted to. And I thought that I would be doing that all the time. Outside of a couple of games, I didn't, right? Punch out is, every time you play punch out is like the first time. I don't know what it is about punchout. Maybe because it's so simple, or because it's Mike Tyson,

or because my brother could always beat Mike Tyson, I can never beat him. But punchout worked, but some of the other ones didn't. Like, you passed the game up. It's not all true with this one, for whatever reason. And I think something else.

I think people who've never played it before, it just plays really smoothly. And like I said, I've never skated, but it just feels good to succeed. on the video game. And that is what every single video game is trying to sell to consumers.

A game that it feels good to succeed at. It's hard enough to where landing the tricks are satisfying. It's easy enough that you know that you're going to be able to land them at some point and you're not just like existing in futility. But no, it was cool, especially last night in the, dark in the room, half a cookie next to me, the smoke billowing in the room, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? It was fun. It's fun. Tony Hawk, man, still got it. It was able to bottle another nostalgia. I'll probably play a game when I get home today. Yeah, I hope Nintendo's

lawyers don't come after you for admitting to using an emulator. Going to send you a cease and desist or just knock on your door. I mean, maybe depends on which lawyers you ask. Well, I don't have them now. Now I got you. You know, it's funny. It's so funny. you brought that up. So they had the emulators, right? Mm-hmm. And I was using the emulator, but this is how whack I am. Like, old man van.

They had the emulator. I was using the emulator. And then I was looking for the old-school Nintendo controller. Yeah. But I couldn't find it, right? I couldn't find an old-school Nintendo controller to use. You had to buy, like, another controller, whatever, whatever, whatever. So I'm going on.

So I went to game, dude, or someplace out there. I just bought a Nintendo because I couldn't find my I can't play this without the controller Yes So I just bought a Nintendo So I got the Nintendo I got the Nintendo

The Super Nintendo I got the Nintendo 64 I got all of these systems man Don't ever play with me again You tried to you tried to dime me out To big Nintendo right there When they don't even know I bought all these systems

I bought a dream crap Look I bought these systems Ben I'm trying to snitch on me You're entitled I'm glad to hear that Yeah No it's it's like a it's an empowerment fantasy. It's just like that sense of clear progression. Sometimes real life, you feel like you're

banging your head against the wall. But in video games, you get that instant reinforcement. Hey, I'm getting better at this, unless you suck, I guess. But if you're good, but that's good. And it is hard, once you develop that muscle memory with one kind of controller, like, you know, play some emulated N64 game on some other system, unless I'm playing with a new N64 controller, just hard. It's hard to map onto the new buttons and the new grip. And this game is out for everything. Three and four is out for Switch and Switch 2 and PS4 and PS5 and PC and Xbox 1 and Xbox Series SX, this generation, last generation.

There have been some good portable Tony Hawk games for PSP and various Gameboys, but you've been playing this on Switch, Devin, and this just seems like a great Switch game. Just take it with you, just play in short bursts, which it actually encourages you to do and you can kind of accomplish something in a really short play session. Yeah. I, you know, when I first, when we were talking about codes, I said either switch or Xbox, and I would have loved to play this sitting down on Xbox, but I've been playing it on a switch light.

And it's just been that. Pick it up. I know the switch light. I know, VIN. I thought it was going to be crazy. But I took it on the plane with me. I can drive in the car. Obviously, you know, have somebody else drive and pick it up and play.

Spend some time the hotel route. just crack it open. I really felt like a kid again with a Game Boy Advance or an SP. I'm not paying attention at that point for the graphics, which again, maybe that's like my gamer no-no. Like I just didn't care. I just wanted to get into it,

see what I could do in a short amount of time, 10 minutes, go back, pick it up, three more minutes, go and play again. And it's a dopamine hit every time. I mean, it just is a very fun game to play. It's very easy. I almost like that it's portable. it feels true to skating to me, you know, you grab your board and go.

I don't want to be held up having to dock my switch and figure out things and all the cables and the rest of it. It was just nice to pick it up, go and get a quick session and then be on to the next thing, go to the next level, pick the next skater. I really enjoyed it, but, you know, I'm not a graphics hound, not when it comes to Tony Hawk. I feel like if you played the original games, you kind of were just happy to get what you get. and for me, that's what it came down to. I just wanted to play.

I'm going to get Ben in trouble for downloading ROMs and Devin in trouble for playing Tony Hawk while driving. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Snitching everyone. Ben the Narclenberg.

I can't believe in your nickname. What a name. Devin, since you were actually an authentic skater and this game got you into it in that skating community and you were in a skating collective, you were serious. about it. How was this series perceived, especially when it became mega popular and Normies like me and Vann are playing in casuals and non-skaters are embracing this series? Was there any backlash? Like, this is not for the skating community or because Tony Hawk himself is the face and sort of the soul of the series and obviously beloved by skaters, did that just kind of keep the

cred, even as this kind of broke containment in the skating community? I've never experienced anyone. That said, I think I skate with really cool people and I know really amazing people. Obviously, I've never been a pro. I don't think anyone in their right mind would talk shit about Tony Hawk. I think that there's a tremendous amount of respect for making something that kind of had a bad rep for that was very niche mainstream. I mean, again, you can't talk about skate culture without Tony Hawk,

but we wouldn't have people like Bam Margera of Jackass or Ryan Sheckler on MTV. I honestly think that Tony's impact here legitimized this. And when I think about your question, the skaters I know and people that are doing it at a pro level, these are real athletes. To me, I'm like, they deserve the same amount of respect and credit as the people that are at Wimbledon, you know, the amount of wear and tear that goes on your body, just trying to land these tricks day and day out. They're businessmen, businessmen and women and people

that are negotiating contracts and deals and sponsorships. Again, from the vans that you wear to the songs that you listen to, skate culture really is everywhere. And so I think that Tony's game helped legitimize that. And, you know, obviously in the past couple of years, we've seen skating at the Olympics, and you can watch the due tour on Peacock now. And these are just things that I don't think anyone could have seen this coming.

And so I think that for me and my communities and people I know, I think a lot of people respect Tony for bringing it to the widespread masses. I think it, again, those that aren't in the skate community, skaters are some of the, honestly, the nicest people you will ever be. And I think that again, skaters get a bad rep for, you know, being hardcore, maybe some are like that that don't like the game, that don't like Tony Hawk because he's, you know, he's gone against the same. scene now and quote unquote sold out.

But you go to a skate park, you're new. People will find you, they'll help you, they'll teach you. And I think that this game opened up those discussions and that communal field because it became a talking point if you think about it. Hey, do you know how to do this trick? Where did you learn about that? Oh, from Tony Hawk 2 or whatever,

you know? So I think that if anything, a lot of people are grateful for Tony in this game because it's the ultimate starter pack, whether you just wanted to learn about skate culture, skate lingo, skaters. diversity within skating. I mean, it's really opened up the floodgates for things that I just don't think, you know,

if you think about Tony's skate career starting in the 80s, I don't even think he even saw the future of it going this way. So I've never had a bad experience. And I honestly, you know, for the duration that I play this game, I don't think that I will, I don't think I will ever shit on Tony Hawk. I don't think I could. Well, now that we've established that you won't shit on him, shall we talk to him? Should we bring in the birdman?

I think that's a great idea. I think. Tony? Can we get like a, you know, there's like the pew-pue for the midnight boys. Can you give us like a hawk? Like a hawk noise? There we go. I don't know about that. Cacao!

How's that? This is Tony. This is Tony. This is Tony shredding. Devin, thank you. Maybe you can teach us to kickflip someday. Maybe it's not too late for us. I don't think so.

Get over to L.A. I will do a lesson. All right, maybe so. If he sold out, which I don't think he did, I guess selling out is sort of a 90s concept to begin with. People are trying to sell out from the start now. But he sold out very successfully because this game often sold out and remains extremely popular, as does the latest incarnation, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater,

three and four. Let's talk to Tony himself. Well, I'm joined now by Tony Hawk Pro Skater, the original, who is not in need of a remake. He still looks great. Tony, how are you? I'm good. Thank you.

How are you? Doing well. I wanted to ask about your intimate involvement with this franchise over the years because there are so many athlete celebrities who have lent their name or their likeness who have endorsed a series but haven't had much hands-on involvement, whereas you, of course, have been very closely involved all along the way. You're still out here hawking the game, pun intended, 25 years in. And what is it about this franchise that drew you to it and this level of involvement?

Well, initially, it was how fun it was to play. I got to see the earliest version of the game, obviously, through Activision, when they requested that I be part of it. And I realized very quickly that this could be the most fun game to play as a skateboarder. And the control scheme was intuitive. and it just felt like with my resources and my experience, we could make this thing really authentic and fun. So that was what drew me into it in the beginning. And ever since then, I've just been playing it.

I've been playing it every step of the way, every incarnation. I'm testing it. I'm working on and making suggestions. And then to be invited or to have such interest and such a passionate fan base that wants to see this remastered and remade has been one of the greatest honors in my life. So as we developed this last one, T-HPS 3 and 4, I was there playing it every step of the way.

And I think this one has been the most fun because we added new levels to it. In what way has your skating experience improved, either this game or previous installments in the series, not just in terms of your likeness and the other skaters and the locations and the authenticity on that level, but the actual skating simulation, how it feels to play, which has always been such a draw of the franchise?

Well, for me, it's more that I get to try impossible tricks vicariously through my character. So it's a little bit of inspiring my real life skating. It's more that I get to actually go into this fantastical mode of spinning tricks and grinding and doing flip tricks that I've never actually performed. And what about the other way around your influence on the feel of the game and how it controls because it's not as if controlling a video game is one-to-one with actual skating, but are there areas in which you're able to say this doesn't quite feel right just drawing on your own expertise?

Sure, but those conversations happen more in the early days. Yeah. I think it's more this time around, it's more trying to stay true to the language, to the culture, and obviously people expect a lot from our soundtrack, so I want to make sure that reflects the soundtracks of your, but also updated and with songs that I think fit the genre. So there's still a lot of nuance and a lot of involvement on my behalf, but it's been amazing. The games came so fast and furious back in the day that I imagine it must be a bit of a blur. But do you remember anything specific about the responses, the reception to the original three and four

or either of them that stands out in your mind? Well, I would say specifically, especially in those years, my name became synonymous with video games to the point where people didn't even know if I was a real person or not. And I had several encounters that reflect that where I would be on tour or checking in somewhere. And I remember specifically this one time, and mom said, because I said, you know, have room for Tony Hawk. She's saying, are you, Tony Hawk? I said, yes, she goes, my son and me, we thought that you were just. just a video game character. And my son thinks that now thinks that you're named after a video game character.

So, you know, that's just kind of how it goes. And it was fun. It was a blast. Couldn't believe. And then as I would say, probably even more surprising was when the fourth game was released, the other three were still in top ten of sales. Yeah, that's like, you know, you read old music charts and the Beatles had X number of top ten hits at the same time.

It was kind of that with video games and Tony Hunt. And I was going to ask you when you knew that the franchise had really made it and broken through in a mainstream way. And maybe that's a pretty good answer that you just gave me when the fame of the game sort of surpasses your own. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And the fact that I was getting involved, I was getting invited to do huge events and huge interviews and things. I mean, I got to be on the biggest talk shows in those years. And they were not going to have me on those talk shows if it hadn't been for the success of this game. Yeah. And now you're on the Ring orverse podcast. So it continues to this day. Everything was leading up to this moment. Exactly.

So it's kind of incredible to look back at the pace at which those original games were released and they were so successful for some time. But games take a long time to make these days. And of course, Pro Skater series debuts in 99 and 2011, I think, was the first year without at least one new Tony Hawk game. So it was really kind of incredible. Do you now look back or did you even at the time, have concerns or regrets or saying, hey, let's slow things down a little bit or, you know,

too much of a good thing, right? I mean, was there a certain point where you thought maybe we should take a breather and make sure these are as good as they can be? Not necessarily because I trusted Neversoft and Neversoft's vision and they were so capable of doing all this. And so at some point, we had such success that they were actually getting new system architecture before a new console architecture before it was released. So they could work on a new game to have a release title with that console. And so it was amazing. And so when they chose to not do another game after 2011, I respected their opinion. And they kind of disbanded after that. And we ended up re-organizing and figuring out. So it seems like the genre is ripe for a comeback. I know that you were advocating

for the return of Vert to the Olympics thus far unsuccessfully, unfortunately. But maybe we just need needed a three and four remake to raise the consciousness again. What impact do you think the series has had on the sport over the past 25 years just in terms of the aesthetics, the popularity, the generation of gamers who went on to become skaters? I think that there is a pretty decent population of skaters that started skating because of the game. In fact, I've heard a few modern pros say, say just that. Say, I picked up the game and I want to.

wanted to do all that stuff in real life, and they ended up doing that stuff and more, because they thought that all these combinations that we made available in the game were based in real life, where we thought it was more like, well, these are fantastical options for you. And then they went on to think that, oh, that's the baseline of skating. That's what I have to learn. And now when you look at skating, sometimes you can't tell the difference between what is a real trick or what is video game based.

I think also it just created a fan base for skateboarding because before the game came out, the only fans of skating were skaters themselves. And then suddenly there was a whole population of kids that were happy to watch skateboarding like a competition and they understood the tricks and the nuances and everything else. And that had never happened. And I feel like that's how it nowadays that it's come, it's here to stay. Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that because over the existence of this franchise, people have gotten a lot better at skateboarding, right? The tricks that you were pulling off in the early years,

now you have preteens pulling off those same tricks, right? No offense, you've gotten better at skating too. But the sport has advanced and the cutting edge has really advanced. I always has, though. I mean, that's not something that's unique to these recent years. That's just the trajectory of skateboarding that continues to evolve and tricks keep getting invented and the next generation realizes that's the baseline they need to learn. And because it's already been done, it's a little easier to get to. And I love it.

I mean, to be honest, I'm just happy that I still get to do it. And I get to be, I get to bear witness to all of this progress and evolution and also that I get to participate. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess you could say the same about a lot of sports or other fields of human endeavor. Hopefully we're getting better at things generally over time. But but I wonder now, as people are, revisiting games from 20 or so years ago. I mean, if you were creating a brand new move set for a game, for instance, would it have to look completely different? Does a young skater of today who's picking up three and four and playing it for the first time think, oh, why can't you make this move?

Or, you know, I could do this one. I think we have included all of the options for recreating actual tricks that exist in real life. So I'm not too worried about that. I think it's more when we go into the special tricks is when it gets into the more fantasy zone and we love it. That's some of the most fun. Yeah, and that's kind of been part of the spirit

of this franchise from the start is that, yeah, it feels like skating and it's sort of a skating simulation, but it's also playful and a little silly and absurd. And I wonder how you kind of calibrated that back in the early days, where you could have insisted, no, I want this to be absolutely 100% realistic

and lifelike at all times. It seems like you were quite willing to sort of play around with things. Sure, but that's the fun of it. And the idea that Neversoft and me by proxy got a freedom to do all that. I mean, Activision just kind of let them to their own devices. And so it was a blast working on because anything went. And we definitely had a good gauge of is this cheesy or is this fun or is this too silly and I think it worked out well because it was a good blend of everything and there are plenty of funny Easter eggs in the game and silly names and but it's all based on real skating. Yeah. And we talked about how at the start of the franchise, it was so dominant, there were so many games and they were so successful. And there's been a bit of a lull. And maybe now these remasters,

these remakes, is the time ripe for a resurgence? Have we gone too far in the direction of not enough skating games, do you see a comeback in order? I would love to see a comeback in order. I, you know, I'm not an Oracle, but I think that it's got potential. And the fact that we added new levels to this one, the THS3 and 4, is a sign of hope that we can start doing stuff that is not just remakes. Yeah, is there anything that back in the day you were NeverSoft wanted to include in games, but couldn't quite get right because of,

of the technology of the time and now a few console generations on, obviously with the remakes you're trying to be faithful to some extent. But are there things now that we can do that maybe would have been more difficult back then that excite? I would just say the graphics. I mean, the graphics just look and feel much more real. The motion feels much more based in reality. So, you know, we did the best we could with the consoles available at the time. So I can't believe what it looks like now. I can't believe how it plays now. So I don't, I can't see there's anything missing from it. Yeah, and that's always the balance, I think, with remakes or remasters. You want to spruce it up. You want to make it look pretty, but at the same time, you don't want to lose the

essence of the original that feel that's so essential to these games and that people love and recognize. And it's still there, I think, for me and seemingly for many people who have played it. So I wonder whether you had input into that or whether it was just a relief for you to get your hands on this game and say, yeah, it looks completely different, but it feels like I remember or feels like it's host through. No, I would say that the only reason it took so long because we had to find the right studio that would honor that legacy. And we worked with Iron Galaxy, that was it. When they, when they showed the first demo, I was like, oh, this is, this is the group that should be doing it. And what do you hear from younger fans who were playing this game or the remaster of one and two

that is different at all from the original generation that played these games when they first came out and now there's a nostalgia and a sentimentality that's not necessarily there for people who are picking up for the first time. But do you hear the same sort of reviews and testimonials from the younger generation that's experiencing this anew? Absolutely. And the gratitude for having updated characters and for having newer characters that represent skateboarding as it is now. I think that's probably one of the biggest things. So they get to play as they're current heroes as characters. And I know you probably want to keep the focus on the new game for now, but of course,

the inevitable question is what's next or what do you hope could be next? Of course, there are many more Tony Hawk's games out there that could get the same treatment. And you alluded to the possibility of something completely new, completely fresh. So I wonder whether you have had any conversations about that or what that's contingent on or what your hopes are. My hopes are that we get to continue making games. I mean, if you're talking about the chronology of the games, the next one in line would be the Underground series, but I have had no definitive conversations either way on that, so I can't answer it, but I certainly have great hopes. And something completely new, potentially, too? I'm not going to, I'm not going to

complain in either scenario. Yeah. Yeah, the Underground games, I think, were kind of original, innovative at the time in having an actual story and a narrative, which is more standard in sports games these days, but when you could first do that, especially with your created character, who could be inserted into that prearranged narrative, that was groundbreaking. That was really exciting. I mean, that would be, I'd be a dream. Yeah. Okay. Well, Tony, so happy to talk to you, so happy that this series is still thriving, that you are still so closely involved with it. And hopefully we'll have a chance to talk to you about underground, underground, too. or something completely new.

All right. All right. That will do it for today. Thanks to Mr. Tony Hawk. Thanks to Van Leithen. Thanks to Devin Ronaldo doing double duty

as a guest and producer. Thanks to Olivia Creary for additional production support. And thanks to Arjuna Rangopal for his senior podcast management. We wish you a happy wellness week. We'll miss you. Button mesh and the rest of the Ringervverse

will be back next week. You can contact me at Ringiverse Gaming at gmail.com. Until then, may all your Ollie's land. May all your bonelesses not be bone breaking. And in case Van is still listening, Shaq food.