The Ringer-Verse - ‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ Mailbag, Plus Michael Waldron | House of Midnight

Episode Date: May 12, 2022

Mal, Joanna, Van, and Charles assemble to answer your questions about ‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ and the MCU going forward (3:26). Later, Mal and Joanna are joined by ‘Multiverse of Madness’ writer Michael Waldron to discuss the movie, how it fits into the MCU, and more (1:36:43). Hosts: Mallory Rubin, Van Lathan, Joanna Robinson, and Charles Holmes Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joanna, do you ever wish you could definitively prove that you had the right opinions about movies? Uh, yeah, Neil, because I do have the right opinions about movies and television, right, Dave? No, because I'm more right about those things, and I demand trial by content. Oh, boy, what is trial by content? Each week, we'll take on a huge question. Each of us will bring a choice and combine with listener submissions and your votes, we will come to a decision. It's trial by content every Tuesday on Spotify, the ringer.com, wherever you're listening right now. Don't let Neil win.

Don't let Dave win. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumfaya, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.

Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks,

followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today.

Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. And welcome into the Ringerverse here on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only to the reality where everyone is made of paint. And it's really hard to eat, but also to join us on the Ringers Nexus podcast feed for all things. Bandom. And what a treat it is today to be here with the entire Ringerverse family. The Midnight Boys are here. Bebeo!

House of Var is here. It is a House of Midnight, Dr. Strange, in the Multiverse of Madness, Mailbag, team up. Van Lathen is here. Yes. Charles Holmes is here. What up? Joanna Robinson is here.

Oh, hi. Jomea Denneron is here. By the grand calculus of the multiverse. Yes, I am. Arjuna Ramgapal is here. He's not going to say. anything. Sadly.

Promise. He's here. The watcher. Do you know the watcher? Steve Allman is not here. He's a vacationing with pizza papa, enjoying some delicious meals, days of luxury and leisure. But Carlos is here. Carlos Chiroboga is here in Steve's stead to produce today's episode.

What a time it's going to be. We have a lot to get to today. First, we are going to answer your questions, which came to us from across the multiverse. And then later in today's episode, Joanna and I have an interview with Multiverse of Madness screenwriter Michael Waldron. That was a great chat. So please stick around for that. Lots more coming on the feed next week.

So, of course, follow along on Spotify or wherever you get your pods. Follow us on our myriad social feeds. You know all of the programming reminders by now. And of course, it's Van's favorite thing. The spoiler warning. Yes. Bear in mind our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning. Today's podcast will feature plot details from the movie that we're talking about.

Dr. Strange in the multiverse of madness. The entire MCU run to date shows, movies, all of it. Marvel Comics canon. It's all on the table. So proceed with more caution than Stephen Strange did when sipping spiked tea from his sworn nemesis. All right. Jomey, let's dive right in. It's mailback time.

What do we got? First question comes from Bo. Bo asks, now that we know who was playing Mr. Fantastic in the MCU, can you all give who you think should be casted as the rest of the Fantastic Four? Great question. I've been thinking about this for literally hours.

Me too, man. I just cannot get Johnny Storm casting. I have the perfect Johnny Storm. Like, I think I actually, like I went back and forth. I think I have the perfect. Should we do our, like, reads and around and then our sous? Okay, because what we decided we should say, we decided we're doing read as well because we're not sure Krasinski, old Krasinski's going to be Reed Richards going forward.

He might be. We're not sure. So should we like, go one, like do all of our reads, do all of our sues? Is that? Yeah, I like that. I like that. All right. Van, what's your read?

I had Krasinski for reading. Okay. You're sticking with it. Yeah, just because I think at this point, I just want to, I didn't really. enjoy him super as Reid before he got spaghetti. But I want to see him give it the old college try and I think it's actually perfect casting

if he nails it. So I still think he has it in him. I want to see Krasinski's free. All right. I, I, too, agree with Van. Like, I think Krasinski I want to give him that shot. But my, like, right under if we can't choose Krasinski

is my old pal Rob McElney from Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Wow. And I just really think that he's perfect. I think he has that arrogance about him, but also that charm, especially, he shows it so well on always studying in

Philadelphia, and I think he can hit a lot of the quippiness that you need to be in the MCU, especially when you're in a Tony Stark for Dr. Strange Role. So I'm going with my boy Rob. Did Rob pay you to say that? I bet he would. No. I love Rob.

My answer is complicated by the fact that, like, I've been seeing a lot of people debate, like, Like, if we don't feel like Dr. Strange, Stephen Strange is the perfect fit for like, new team leader, mentor to kids, like all sorts of stuff like that. I think a lot of people have been wondering, like, maybe Reed Richards can play that role going forward, sort of fill into the Tony Stark, Steve Rogers leading the world. And so for that reason, I feel like we need like megastar power is sort of what I was thinking. So I was wondering, I already floated this by another comics expert and they were like, no. we'll save him. He's technically already in the MCU,

but we don't see his face. What do you guys think about Bradley Cooper? As Reed Richards. Wow. That's a swing, Joe. Oh my God. That's rough. That's a swing, Joe.

Okay. I'm not saying it's a bad. I like it. Wow. Here's my backup. I have a backup. Who's your backup? Deve Patel.

Oh, I like that. I like that a lot. That's wasted. That's a lot. That's a shit that I like. Ted Patel is fired. All right, Bradley Cooper. Eat shit, Bradley Cooper.

Ted Patel is my thing. Enjoy your continued run as our beloved rocket raccoon. Wow, Dev is a great one. Joe, I have to say I'm astounded. I thought for sure you would be nominating your number one truest love. Timmy, Elephant. Timmy is a good one. I just like, read Richard's in a sweet spot of like, not, you want to go not too old, not too young, right?

I think he's a little longer the tooth, yeah. He's also not nerdy enough. He's too beautiful. Like, I'd just be like, dude, come on. Like, you're all a fan. He does have a really good beard game, and I feel like we all agree that Reed Richards needs to have a great beard, right? I'll tell you one thing, though, he would play the role best.

He, to me. He would be so good. He'd play the role best. If this is, like, right after Live Free, Die Hard era, like a couple of years, then he'd be the best read, for sure. Sure. Also, like, he's been linked to Iron Man before, right? So in terms of your point about tapping into that Iron Man energy, you can do it with someone who could have been Iron Man. Is that, is that your, is that your pick?

It was in the consideration set, but I actually didn't pick him just because I was so sure you would. Alas. All right. I am totally open to Krasinski, but here's my nominee. And let me just say, in the interest of full disclosure, we did this exercise casting the Fantastic Four a couple years ago on binge mode Marvel and I nominated Henry Golding. And stand by it. I do.

I do. But I'm bringing fresh nominees today, okay? Omar C. From Netflix's Lupin. He has everything we need for the role. Brilliant, clever, family-oriented, handsome, compelling, can woo you with the charisma, but also pull off the Reed Richards.

I know I'm the smartest one in the room and can best my opponent in any number of ways. I think you'd be perfect. I can't, I'm going to be honest. I can't set up one of our Black Kings to take the fall for Fantastic Four again. Like they did, they did Michael B. Jordan so bad. If you don't get out of here with that woke shit, you're not trying to. This is going to be great. In seriousness, this husband,

And the conversation because Jonathan Majors was cast as Kang and Nathaniel Richards and Rie Richards are related, there is this question of like, can we cast someone white or not black in this role at all? Do you know what I mean? Can you care someone non? Look, I'm all, you know what? See, this is my problem with Hollywood. Hollywood, if you put too many black people in the movie, they're going to change the name of the movie. It's going to be the fantastic foe. With an apostrophe after the old. they're going to put four rappers together

and they're going to be on the soundtrack it's not going to be the Fantastic Four is Jay Z. Kanye and they're going to do the whole thing. Like, I think,

I think, I think this is my thing. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm cool with them being white, man. Just, you know what I'm saying? Just,

the death of the tail thing I love. I'm cool with them being white. And think about it. They're pretty white. You know, in inception, they went to, space.

Like, you think about it, they're pretty white. I'm cool with them being white. I don't know. Charles, you know,

you know what you in? No, I just, I just, like I said, after all the Michael B. Jordan cubit towards you, I just can't put another

black king up to get those things like that. Like, they like, like ripped him in new ass. They went to, they went apes in. And this is like Michael B. Jordan.

Like, this is the sexiest man alive. Like, and if they were about to kill him, I'm like, man. I mean, that speaks more to the movie than it speaks to to Michael Jordan.

No, no, no, even when he was cast. I remember even before the movie. I love you, Josh. It was tough. It was tough. I think, I mean, I think part of it was also, it was Kate Marr. And so when Sue and Johnny's supposed to be brother than sister and, you know, your sister, you know, white and you black, it's definitely a tough look. You know, so it wasn't.

Plus, we need Omar to come back as bishop. He's bishop now. From X-Men? He was bishop. Days of Future Past, right? Oh, yeah, shit. I forgot about Bishop, so as many people laughed. Jesus Christ.

The Sue's? Yeah. Who's everyone's Sue? Sue. McKinsey Davis. Oh, my God. One of my great loves. Oh, my God.

I love her so much. McKenzie Davis. So I love, first of all, I love McKinsey Davis more than I love both of you. That's fine. Yeah, I love, I love her. going all the way back to the greatest episode of television that has ever existed. Sanjana Jiro. That's one of my top three favorite episodes of all time.

Yeah, yeah. I think she brings it. I think now pairing her with Krasinski is a little May, December, but it's not aggressively that. And I don't want to see, I don't want to see Krasinski do it with his wife. That's too cozy for me. I don't get to work with my... Plus, Emily Blunt is like,

keep your superhero shit away from me. Wait, McGettie Davis and John Krasinski are around the same age. Are they? How old is she? She's 35. Oh, but he's like 42 or 43, right? Yeah, Krasinski's 42. That's not...

That's fine. That's fine. Okay, okay. That's fine. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, ho. Station 11 sold it. I love her to death. That's my suit.

Perfect. Actually, she was in the running for my sue. But I was just like, damn, is that... Is that too easy? but I do like McKenzie Davis. I picked Annie Murphy, who plays a sister on Chitts Creek, because she just had, I think she does comedy very, very well. I also think a lot of Sue in the comic books has a very, like,

50s energy where she's kind of like she comes from a wealthier family, and, like, she's always like, oh, this, this darn, uh, read, never paying attention to me or the kids. I think she could, like, really, like, you know, give Reed a run for his money. My pick might be a little short, but I'm going to stand by her, and it's Kristen Bell. I love her so much. She's like two feet shorter than McKenzie Davis, but I still think she can do it. Like we're looking for mom and dad, right?

And I think that Kristen Bell has, like, strong mom energy. So, yeah. Okay. I am going with Emily Blunt. Not only, specifically because I did not go with Chris and stuff. I just think this would be hysterical If after like all of the talk about Krasinski And actually getting

Krasinski in the Illuminati sequence of Dr. Strange, he was not Reed Richards moving forward, but Emily Blunt was in fact The Invisible Woman. I just think that would be incredible. It would be funny as hell. Fygi have some fun, you know?

Right. So what's next? Johnny. Johnny Storm. Oh, look, you guys, this was my biggest, reach. Okay. Because this guy

Johnny isn't exactly like a lead. I'm going for a little bit more star-powered than what you would normally put in the role. I'm going Ansel Elgoor. Hell no. Hell no. No. I can't let that slide. No. I can't let that. We're not doing that. No, I'm sorry. We're not giving Ansel any

more fucking rolls. He's fine. Cook. Did you see what's my story? Toast. Toast. Did you see what's that story, then? Yes, I saw it. Worst part of the movie, by far. Okay. Best part of El Baby Driver, actually probably wasn't. But look, like, you know, immediately retracted.

Immediately retracted. He probably wasn't the best part of Baby Driver. I love Baby Driver. That's a rough one. I did not go for Star Power, but I went for someone who, after I saw them in an episode of TV, I'm like, damn, you would make the perfect Johnny. I'm going with Ethan from Euphoria. after I saw the

he was the lead of the play. And why I love him is because I think sometimes people make the mistake of like picking too sexy of a role for Johnny and I'm just like, oh, I want a friend who could be Tom Holland's best friend in the MCU.

Valerie Ait. It's one criteria for Johnny and it's that he has to be heartthrob hot. But here's the thing. For my story, I actually want Johnny to grow into the hotness Because everything with Ethan, Ethan's like, who is this motherfucker on Euphoria? And then he gets on stage for the play.

And everybody's like, oh my gosh, he has star potential. Look at his charisma. And I think after he gets the powers, he's going to have that charisma. And I think he's pretty attractive. Nobody from Euphoria, man. Like, we don't want Johnny on fentanyl. Yo. No, Ethan's a good kid.

Ethan's the one kid who's not on fentanyl. Oh, I never saw the show. I thought they was all on that fentanyl. No. Oh, Ben. He's a good boy. He and Mon Apatow are like the only one's not doing drugs. So this is Austin Abrams.

Yes. Who plays Ethan on Euphoria or as I always still refer to him, Ben from Paper Towns. All right. So far, O for two. Okay. Okay. Okay. I just saw Top Gun last night.

Top Gun Maverick. So good. So my first instinct was May Jacinto, who was like, cut out of that movie for no good reason. so release the mini Jacinto cut of Top Gun, one of the most handsome man alive. But I'm not sure he has the squagger. So I'm going to go for another flyboy from Top Gun and say Glenn Powell. Oh my God. This is inspired.

Who plays essentially Iceman. Ringer podcast listener Glenn Powell. I love Glenn Powell. He's been amazing and everything that he's ever done. That's a great pick. I kind of want to switch my pick to Glenn Powell. Ooh, this charm. Why have I seen him before?

What have I seen this, man? Wait, who is this guy? He was in that Linklater baseball movie. He was so good in that. Oh, everybody gets some? Yeah, everyone wants some. Yeah, I saw that. That's why I saw him from.

Yeah. He was in hit. He was in the Dark Night Rises? What was he in the Dark Night Rises? Yeah, he's one of the Wall Street guys. Oh, yeah. Oh, I like this. I like this.

Okay, I like this guy. This guy's cool. So he was in Set It Up? He was in Set It Up. Yeah. What is Zoe Doey. One of the great Netflix romantic comics. This is, yeah, this is one of Jomey's favorite topics.

Netflix rom-coms. Not only is it one of the best Netflix rom-coms, just one of the best rom-coms, period. He's great in it. He was also in a ride-along, too. I've seen this guy before. Yeah, Glenn Powell. I'm into Glenn Powell for this. Hmm.

We're scrolling through the IMDB. There's something here called The Vibrator. Ring Reverse contains adult content. I'm going to explore his filmography further. I am going with, I mean, I really am just tempted to switch right here on the fly. You could switch to Glenn Powell. You could just get in it. Here's what I had on my list.

On my list. You ever seen Riverdale? Reggie. Oh, Reggie. Charles Melton. Yeah. So KJ. Apo, when I did this before, it was my pick.

And I was like, let me just go right back to Riverdale. Reggie from Riverdale? Yeah, Charles Melton. You need, again, I think you need that like. He's so good. looking. Just overwhelming handsomeness. Charles and I disagree on this.

I don't see I don't see Johnny as like a this guy is super handsome. Yeah. He is. You know what? You have to look at people like this and go, why do I, why should I have to live with this nigga? Like, why should I have to share?

Like, why? I'm looking at this guy like, why, why? Like, why should I have to be on the same? Why should I have to deal? deal with this. Like this guy. It is. It is from Alaska.

Yeah. No, he's a handsome guy. That actually could work. Yeah. Do we cast Doom? We have to do thing. Oh, we're on the thing. Oh, I'm jumping to Doom.

Seth Rogen. That's who I have. That's who I have. When we did this on binge, Jason picked Seth Rogen and it shocked me. I had never considered it. And it's like now the only thing I can consider. The only way that Seth Rogen doesn't work is this.

it depends how much time he has to be Ben before he gets transformed Yeah And to think Because if Ben is the rough Rough tough guy of the group Seth's going to have to act his ass off

And hit the gym for a little while To get in shape of the roll But a big guy If he goes in and dedicates himself to it I think he could do it But I think ask the thing He would be the best especially behind the CGI.

I love Seth. If I'm not going to choose Seth, I wanted somebody who embodies anger, and I feel like nobody embodies anger, better than Brett Goldstein, who is Roy from Ted Lassel. Oh, that's actually really dope. He's here.

He's here. He's there is every fucking weird. Wow. I want that voice. I want that voice for my thing. I'm changing my answer. To Ryken. That's actually really good.

I love it. What we should do when we finish this pick the best from just make the team of the best suggestions overall. Okay, so it's Glenn Powell and Brett Goldstein. Deb Patel and Brett Goldstein. I love Dev. I love Dev. Dev is a great big.

Yeah. Joe, who's your thing? Oh, I changed my answer. Well, I'm okay. My original answer was, I will say, Tom Hopper, who was Billy Bones in Black Sales, he's currently on Umbrella Academy, and he was in Game of Thrones as a replacement. Dickon, he's, I don't know, he's just. just got fucking enormous arms.

He's very tall, though. You usually think of Ben as like, you know, but I love Tom Hopper, so, yeah. Uh, Doom? I don't even know who I would have is Doom. I didn't, I didn't prepare a Doom. I'll just go for the internet's like long running pick here, Jamie Lanister, Nicolai. Oh, okay. Jamie Lanham, who?

I go, uh, I go Matt Smith. From where? From Morbius. Matt Smith. Of all the things, Morbius. Damon Targary and the rogue prince himself. Damant Targaryen, yeah. Dr. Doom.

I like this. I'll look at Doom as somebody who has really aggressive sort of Eastern European features. You know what I mean? I don't want to go. This is who better than Commerbatch should be playing. Like, let's be clear. You know what I mean? Like, why is he Steven Strange?

I think I don't want to go nip-tuck Dr. Doom again. I don't want to go like super-hound. I want to go Doom. You look at Doom and you say, hey, he's cool, but there's a reason why Sue didn't pick him. You want to be able to see it on his face. I have no idea who I would pick him. This is such a hard role to cast for me. Matt Smith is a really good idea.

Yeah. I like Nikolai. I think Nikolai is a great idea. Nikolai would be great too. When are we putting Dan Stevens in the MCU and who should he be playing? That's a question for a different podcast, probably. Anyway, so that's all of our fantastical. Jomey, what are you loving?

Now, the multiverse exists. We can bring Dan Steven as Legion. A Legion? Okay, cool. I happily see Legion in the MCU. So that's all of our fantastic four thoughts for this Dr. Strange. Our next question comes from James. Since we've seen horror, what's a genre you want to see Marvel use? Is Thor going to be a rom-com?

So is this a genre that they've made? never used before or just one we would want to see next. I think one you would want to see next. I took it, yeah, as more like, what do we want to see them really do that they haven't done in full or often at least? But you know what? Interpret the question anyway. Why not?

Yeah, I went with, I'm similar. I went with like, what have they not done? They've done so many little genres. So, yeah, I know which one I'm going. What is it, Charles? I want to, I want to like Ocean's 11 type ice with villains. like I want like a Thunderbolts type. Oh, that would be sick.

Getting like getting the team together, they have to steal something. I know they kind of did that with the time heist, but not really because there was so much other shit going on. Like I want like a super like charming villains getting everybody together. I don't know who the villains would be yet, but that's what I would want to see. Well, you're just you're you're, you said Thunderbolts. So you're dying to see John Walker again, right? Like, give me. Zemo.

A Zemo is my ocean. They could be stealing it on behalf of Zemo. Ooh. He's a rich bastard that looks like he needs something stolen, billionaire. Steal something from Dr. D. There's like few things I love more than a heist. So you've gotten me really excited by this prospect. I'm going to say because I'm still thinking about the Batman and because I still love the Batman,

despite it's like people viewing it at home, not liking it turn in the conversation. Seven-hour movie at home. Seven-hour movie. I still love that movie. I want like a full-blown detective mystery story. I think that would be really fun. With what hero? With which hero?

Wow, she didn't think that far, did she? I don't know, who would be a good, let's just say Elena, Elena Belofa. Oh, that would work. Oh, nice noir. Yolena and Kate. Elena and Kate solve mystery. Espionage.

I want to see, I have the movie I want to see them do too. I want to see them do Blade as a growing up in the hood movie. a la Boys in the Hood amiss society. No. I want to see, but I want to see, I want to see them do Blade, you know what I mean?

Whistler comes in, saves a wayward vampire youth, you know, teaches him the way. And Blade has to like, he has to figure out the purpose of his life as a day walker. In South Central?

In South Central. Jummy's already all the way gone. Like could not be further away from his monitor. I got to fuck with this now. This would be hilarious. You must be stopped. This would be so great. Like, this would be, Jomi, here's the thing, Jomey,

you got to expand. You got to have vision. You know what I mean? You have to be able to see this movie. Blade in the hood. You know, and then at the end, he inspires the little kids that were going to join a gang, but now they want to be a superhero.

It's amazing. You have Dane Whitman show up there. This is great. An Englishman fish out of water in South Central L.A. You lost me. Watch them do it. Kid Harrington. Mallory, what's your name?

I don't know if it's just because been spending so much time in the Theloniverse, you know, still thinking about it from the desert comes a stranger. I want a Western. Westerns are back. We're having a Western moment. And you know what?

No one picked Olifant from Mr. Fantastic. So let's do it here. Let's bring him into the MCU and get Western. Oh, what Western heroes are there in the MCU? Who should? should we have him play? He could play any gunslinger. Any gunslinger.

I'm trying to think. Who's handy with the steel, if you know what I mean? I would love a Punisher Western. Like, we could just do, we could do a Space Western. Or it was a Space Western. Yeah. Oh, you know what you could do? You could, oh, you know who he could play?

He could play Corsair. He could play Scott and Alex Summers' dad. He would be a perfect corsair. Like a perfect. He could play Corsair. Like that would, that would. And that movie would be fantastic. Mallory, I've never felt, I've never felt closer to you than in this moment as you're pushing the Oliphon agenda.

So hard. I'm thrilled to know you. Timothy Oliphant and the Star Jammers? Yeah, the Star Jammers. A Star Jammers movie would be dope. Especially since they're going all cosmic. It's crazy. You know, Secret War.

or they want to bring in. I don't know how much the Star Jammers had to do with everything, but the Star Jammer's movie would be amazing, man. I would love Allofant like teaching a little like Scott once they reunite in space

how to be a little space cowboy. This would be great. And then, you know, because the question mentioned rom-com, I do think that would be fun. But look, we're, you know, we're in this Marvel horror moment. We're talking more about like, you know, the Netflix shows are on Disney Plus now.

How mature can the MCU be R-rated Marvel? What does that look like? Let's make an erotic thing. thriller. What do you think? Whoa. Erotic thriller with who? Emma Frost. Oh yeah. Sometimes you see these things coming. Oh, wait. Can we do a Scott? Can we do a Scott, Emma, and Gene, like, love triangle and it's like, who's going to end up with? Who knows? Or we could just do Scott and Emma, basic instinct style. You know what I mean? It's like the whole deal, but, you know,

she can read his mind so it's like, oh. B.Y.O. Ice Pick. Emma's like. Wait, all right. Can I pick this before we get off this question? I know we've already done high school with like, Tom Holland, but if they did X-Men, do you think we could get like a super bad level, like high school comedy from that? I would love that.

Just like actual teenagers. I'm going to high school enough, man. I'm pretty much done with high school. You're done with high school? Yeah, the kids forgot. And now they're in college. I'm finished. Nothing.

I love more than a coming of age tale. I love coming of age tales. You're wilding, man. Jomey, since you're the rom-com king, do you have like a rom-com, a Marvel rom-com that you would want to see? Let's give, no, let's get the fans what they want. Let's give the fans what they want.

And let's have Yelena and Kate go on a road trip cross-country, you know. And then when they get to California on the Palace Verde's beach, they're like, wow, this is really enlightening. I'm really glad we found each other, you know, and it's just like really beautiful. Wow.

Like after two hours, it tears because they found each other. Each other? I'll tell you what. I'm into it. I'm so here. I'm here for it. I'm into it,

but the people at Disney just had a stroke. It's just like, I'm into it, but I heard the sound of Disney board members all having TIA. at the same time. They have enough trouble getting the scene in. Like a whole Thelma and Louise movie?

I'm into it though. I'm into it, Jomey. I'm watching. No, I like it. Can I give you guys the most cursed rom-com, the most cursed I could think of? Absolutely like no one wants this, but it would be comic book accurate.

How funny would it be if Anthony Mackey's Captain America at Natalie Portman's Thor? This is the second time you brought this curse pairing up, Charles. Charles, Charles, I don't even be thinking about going. I've got to work with this man. I don't even be thinking about going in on Falcon until you, every podcast you want us to go in on Falcon? No. I was just saying.

Falcon had the bag for that. Falking back not that deep. Sorry, guys. Not that deep. Back on track. All right. Our next question comes from Zach. referring to the Midnight Boys quick talk on if Strange can leak the Avengers,

I feel like he's getting set up to be the Tony, a lead figure, but not like the leader that Cap was. If he is going to occupy that role on the team, who do you think will slot into that Steve Rogers role? I don't have a great answer for this because Steve Rogers is like an impossible role to fill, and I don't see her as a leader, but in terms of bringing that sort of like Boy Scout energy, isn't that kind of what Kate Bishop is giving us, despite her very different upbringing and background and all that sort of stuff?

She's not a leader, but just that, I miss the Boy Scout energy. I really do. I considered picking her, but I think she will, she will be the answer just for the Young Avengers. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, not the main Avengers.

Oh, Kate. Miss her. I have someone, and it's not who I would want, but it's who I would be like in a medicine. of just like who they're going to push next and who they would want to be the next Steve Rogers, I feel like it would be Captain Marvel. Like I think that's who they want us to think would be, even though I personally would not.

Okay. Here's the, here's my question about that. I think if we like try to isolate what variables they would be attempting to like replicate or approximate, I think one of the keys for the role that Steve Rogers, like, ultimately played is just that he's like always the name. right, always present. Captain Marvel, most consistent Captain Marvel trade across the MCU,

she's like, I gotta go. Right? So how can you be the Steve Rogers if you're never there? Well, I'm more so thinking of if we're marching to like a Civil War or an end game type event,

obviously you have the magic part that Dr. Strange is handling, but there's a lot of space shenanigans that are going to be going on. And I think if you're going to have your most powerful character, it kind of seems like even in what if they keep being like, well, don't forget about Captain Marvel.

She's still here. Guys, Captain Marvel, she's so powerful. And if they're going to do an Avengers, like Captain Marvel was even in Chongchi. It feels like they're trying to push her in that direction, even if I do agree with you now that she's just never there. Speaking of that Chongchi Stinger, which we're going to talk about maybe a little later on in this,

like I'm curious what Mark Ruffalo's level of interest is in the MC right now because I don't have a good feeling for it. He's going to be in the Sheilk show. But like, what role could Bruce Banner play overall and everything? I don't think we have any announcement that he's going to be in any movie anytime soon. And so I don't know what's going on with Bruce Banner. But, you know, in terms of, like, original Avengers lineup and who's left, like, Thor is our party god.

It doesn't care, right? Clint is whatever. And it's like, Bruce. Okay. I don't know. What do you think? I don't know what Bruce is going to do. I think that they owe us a big, smashy, well-produced Hulk movie, like a big intergalactic, huge Hulk thing, you know? But legally they can't do it because Universal still has the right. They can't do a Hulk movie. Yeah.

Maybe that's why he's hanging out on TV, you know? Maybe so. So this is what I think. I think I know who it would have been, and I think I might know who it's going to be now. Well, it would have been Black Panther. Yeah. It would have been Black Panther. So they thought that they had it. I actually think now it's going to be Shankshi. I do.

I think it's going to be Shankshi. I think that what we saw Shankshi go through, I personally think he's going to have a lot more to do. And the fact that he is as close to a, because think about it, what was Caps, what is Steve Rogers' ultimate superpower?

His heart. His unwavering humanity. His blistering almost fucking aggravating heart and humanity. That's his real superpower. That's what really, and I think when you look at Shang-shee,

his movie, to me, of all the ones that we've seen thus far had the most of that in it. What? Chung Chi abandoned his sister. Steve would never. Yeah. First of all, Steve took a nap, baby, for a long time.

He abandoned people on accident. Whoa, a nap is way different than like, hey, yo, I know that I promised I'd always be here for you. But like, I'll see you later. Well, well, first of all, our dad sent me on a dummy mission to kill someone. I got to get away. And I came back. I came back and I learned a real situation. And now I have hard.

And now I understand. By the way, you talk about your beloved Steve Rogers. How about your man killed your boy's parents and you kept it on the tuck? People make mistakes. Iron Man was in a day one. He was a new friend. As Drake says, no new friend. You're making no sense.

All I'm saying is I think it's going to be Shonkshi. So was I. So was I. So fucking was I. Did I tell you that when Steve was asking me for F bombs to put in Civil War, I was like, so. fucking was I. That's a good one.

And by the way, just let you know your friend is killing people. I just let you know he's pulling a Wanda Maximoff on all of the shield agents throwing them off a cliff. Maybe put them in jail for a couple of days, you know, maybe just

maybe cool. Rehabilitation, okay? Are you a fan of mass incarceration? I guess, okay, so like, but obviously who they want it to be is Falcon, right? Like literally has the shield. I'm just saying that's That's who they wanted to be. He don't got the range.

What about, here's my, here's my answer. Sam and Peggy together. Captain America and Captain Carter. The two characters that we associate most closely other than Bucky with Steve Rogers. They should just bring Captain Carter in full time. Who do you think will slot into that Steve Rogers role? I think politically, politically it might be a little tough. If you're being like, damn, it takes a black man and a white woman to do the job that it took one white man.

I don't want that. You know what they're going to do? They would say that. There's so many more movies and so many more characters that they're going to be more than just six characters teaming up in an eventual team-up film, right? So we'll have all of these different groupings and all of these different character dynamics.

Look, this is what they're going to do. They're going to send Captain Carter to space to fight in the Secret Wars. And they're going to send Sam to the south side of Chicago to deal with game violence. Hey, man. You gotta stop. You gotta be,

you gotta stop. We need your help on O block. We need you to go to O block. We need you to figure out what's going on, man. The cap, we need your help. That's too far. That's too far, man. Come on, man.

They had a problem. They had a problem. The end, the end result of this conversation is they have a Stephen Tony problem. They definitely have a. Steven's only problem. I do think the Mr. Fantastic point is right, though, from earlier. Like, he can, whoever that is can take on. Dave, Dad Patel. Dave Patel, save us. You have Steven Strange and you have Mr. Fantastic.

You have all of these. Because we're going to have young Avengers. We're going to have New Avengers. We're going to have West Coast Avengers. We're going to have Pet Avengers. We're going to have the X-Men. We're going to have the Fantastic Four. We're going to have so many different. The character said it's just going to be so much bigger. Molly's just going to be slide Pet Avengers in there. Just going to will that into existence. I love that. I mean, there are just going to be so many more characters in the mix than there were when we had

the first Avengers team up and it was six people, right? Give me squirrel girl. Oh my God, please give me squirrel girl. We're all ready for squirrel girl. Are you listening to the audio thing that they're doing right now? I haven't started. It's really good. Next question comes from Gwendolyn.

When Evil Strange commented that he lost, and that's why his universe had the incursion, I immediately assumed he lost the king. Am I the only one who thought that? I do not think, King. Yeah. Joe and I, I think that's an interesting, interesting possibility, certainly. Joe and I talked about this on the deep dive,

but then it ended up getting, this was in theory corner, which got cut out of the pod. Amazingly, that's why this got brought back. I was like, we covered this. My read was that this was 838 Strange, the Strange who the Illuminati eliminated, because we know that 838 Strange

caused an encouraging. by using the dark hole to try to defeat Thanos. We know that sinister strangers universe was destroyed by an incursion. We see the melding together of these two realities. We have the visuals of, you know, the red lines zipping around, the red moon. And one of the things that we associate with the 838 universe is just red means go, right? We hear that more than once. So bringing in that red imagery feels like another kind of clue.

I think that just makes sense in terms of all of the details, but also just tying all four of the strangers who were in the movie together. I feel like that, who knows if that's actually the answer, but that was how I interpreted it. But King would be interesting. I like the idea that Strange lost to another strange.

And then not completely murked by our strange. But also, I'll never have expectations or predictions. First of all, we're going too far into the future. So we should stop. This is not what we're supposed to be.

Then, it's fine. We should watch the content that's in front of us. as it comes. And we should only judge it minute per minute basis. Okay? So I don't want to think about what people meant or what it could have been. It does a disservice to the content. That's all I'm saying.

You guys- Dr. Strange broke you, dude. It broke you. It didn't break me. I was already broken. Do you understand? That's my secret cap. I'm always-

Brand-Lathen. Call me brand-lathan. All right? I was already broken. and who has a better story than Brad the broken. Utterly ridiculous. This question comes from Abby. Abby wants to know which multiverse from that montage of multiverses

are you most interested in seeing more of? Paint verse. Paint verse? Do you want to hold paint verse like movie show? I want to spend more time at paint verse because I want to know just like what crazy shenanigans go on in paint verse. like how do paint verse people show affection to one another is paint verse one big moving Jackson Pollock

I want to know just the craziness of paint verse Do the people in paint verse paint with humans True what do they eat? Yeah You know what I'm saying? Oh wow wow wow wow I feel like this is where Mollary's proposed erotic thriller should take place Oh no

In Papers! Oh my God! That's what I'm talking about. Now we're cooking. Now this podcast has started. Thank you. Speaking of Jackson Pollock, yes. Paint verse.

I said something similar to this on the deep dive that we did, but I really want that like noir verse that had like the black and white with the dirigible, like a sort of steampunky sky captain in the world of tomorrow, whatever that was. I want to go go there. Sky captain reference.

Jesus. Christ. You're welcome. From the year of Jew law. From the year Jude law was an eight movie. Sky Captain and the world is wild. Oh, I didn't. I don't care about any of the universe, though.

No. No. Nothing grabbed you so much visually that you're like, I can't wait to see that again. No? Not at all. I was like, oh, it's like cool visually, but I don't know what this is. Oh, me? I don't give a shit.

Wow. All right. Just real quick, before we move off this, This is a Mal and Joe question, because I know they're going to know the answer. Can someone explain Steampunk to me? I know what it is when I see it. But what did Steam Punk come from? Like what?

Explain Steampunk. Okay. You know like the works of Jules Verne? Yes. Like, okay. Like, it's like an alternate future where we didn't have technology going one direction. It went more gear steam base. So we've got like.

retrofuturism that is all like gear-based and stuck in a sort of Victorian-Edwardian-era style. So you can travel light speed but by steam? Yeah, something like that. It's very industrial revolution-y to me. Jomi, did I get that wrong? Jimmy's making a face. No, I'm making a face because like you barely go 100 miles per hour on steam. How are you supposed to travel light speed?

Sure. All right, Mr. I'm the expert on steampunk. All right. Jeez. Put a gear on it. Put some goggles on it. You know, rocketeer kind of. Rocketeer.

Yeah. Jennifer Connolly. What a dream. Timothy Dalton. I really, I really love that Charles is like, oh me, I don't give a shit.

I peaked with, do the paint, does the paint with human? And I'm not. All right. To be, to be, my man,

my man, who last episode on The Midnight Boys like, I don't get a fuck about Moonnight. I was just like, damn, okay. I guess we're being on. It's now. I definitely don't want to go to the reality full of exclusively skeletons. That was...

Oh, that was a tough one. Harrowing. Also, the one with the Stark drones. Like, whatever universe has been taken over by one of Tony's bad decisions I'm out on. I think I was going to pick the P. There's ours. Yeah.

I will go with... with what appears to be Savage Land, the dinosaurs. We got a glimpse of the dinosaurs. That would be really fun. Let's do an MCU Jurassic Park movie. Plus, we know we have, you know, the possible Ultimates continuity, Magneto, Home Base, Savageland tie, or like a Beyonders tie.

This would be a blast. Wait, could I, can I go off your Savage Land idea? So there's this new DC comic book coming out where like all of like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are dinosaurs. One of the multiverses should have been just the Avengers, but they're all dinosaurs. I would have loved that. I love it. I love it.

I would have watched a whole movie of that. If you'd like to know more about the lava land that they go through, please do stay tuned for our interview with Michael Waldron. Molly Rubin asked an old-timer question. I like a triceratops. What type of, wait, what type of dinosaur would Tony be really quick? Ooh. He wouldn't be the real. He wouldn't be the real.

Rex because the Rex is dumb. No, the T-Rex would, no, Cap can't be the T-Rex either because he would be the, yeah. Cap is like a bronosaurus. The brontosaurus, nice big friendly guy, plant eater, but still can, you know, get you. Who would, this is a good question. Which dinosaur is most likely to roar the, like, some version of genius billionaire playboy for Lampropist? Which dinosaur can we imagine uttering that iconic line? You know, that's a question for social.

The wire. What, what, what, that's a question for social. Social. Answer the fucking crazy questions that we come up with. Which dinosaur? With Tony Stark. What Tony Stark? It's stomping me.

I don't really know. I can't think of it either. Is Loki a velociraptor? I think, I think the velociraptor is Natasha. Yeah. Killer, like, just kind of like get busy, sharp. Who's a Dolophosaurus? I don't know what that is.

That's the like, Fitt. That's what? Oh, I like those guys. It's about the ones that killed, the ones that killed Newman? Yeah. Oh, those guys are badass.

They have those at Universal Studios. That's Loki, right? That's the scariest. Oh, yeah, because he's all like, and then. Literally, like he did to Thor when he was a snake, right? He knows I love snakes. and then he came over and he stabbed me.

I've been working on my Delophisaurus impression since 1994. That's good. Thanks. It's good. All right. We got a question from Timmy. Because Wanda's obviously not dead. How and when does she come back?

I think first of all, we all agree that 616 Wanda is not dead, that we have not seen the last of 616 Wanda. Because, of course, one of the answers to this question could be we see a, another Wanda from another universe coming to the story. But I think we all feel like we will see this Wanda again. I don't know. I mean, I could see something like a post House of M comics drone stretch where they decide to bring Wanda back in without all of her memories or usual magic as a reset. And I kind of wonder thinking about that if, you know, if you think back to the end of Wanda vision,

that's what she does to Agatha. And I, you know, I wonder if now looking back on that in hindsight, that's to prime us for Wanda choosing to do that to herself. And that would be very, very, very sad. I don't know. Could you see them doing that? Trying to think of other things that. What's the movie, though?

What, what, I'm trying to think of the specific work. I think House of Harkness, the Agatha show. Wow. Wow. That makes a lot of sense. sense. That makes a lot of sense. Oh man,

I don't see. That's the fuck I'm talking about. I didn't even think of that shit. I'm a moron. Of course, that's the answer. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if that's the answer.

I don't know. But like, it should be. Like, because I'm so excited for House of Harkness, but I think House of Harkness plus what, how do you solve a problem like Wanda? You know, inside House of Harkness?

I think that could be really fun. I'm going to go with that. I think that that makes a lot of sense because I'm trying to, think of what's on the slate and you never know what they're going to do in post-credit scenes and things like that. But one thing that's interesting about this phase of Marvel is that like they've done so good with the characters that every single show or movie has a different rhythm. They're existing in different spots. So you need a Wanda Maximoff sort of sweet spot, spot that's dealing with magic and the cosmic.

all of that to bring her back in. So you're not shoehorned it in somewhere else where it doesn't really fit how the character works. House of Hartnick's works, of course. But shit, man, so many things are up in the air that I don't even, I don't know necessarily where we are right now with the MCU, so it's hard for me to even kind of like conjectural way she would come back, but that seems like the most

natural place. Well, there's also, if we're going off the comic books, when we took Wanda off the board after House of that, them. There's a, there's a, there was a lot of comics that dealt with that. But there was Young Avengers Children's Crusade, which is all about the twins going to search for Wanda and save her from Dr. Doom, because Dr. Doom obviously wants Wanda for her power. So I could see them potentially if they're going to end up doing a Young Avengers thing, that being part of like the thrust of like these two kids trying to search for Wanda, believing that the 616 version of her is still.

question. How do we get Wiccan and Speed to their formative years here? This is literally the next mailback question. We can take them together. Yeah. You've anticipated the next question. We can take it at the same time. They're related, definitely. Speaking of that. Angela wants to know, do you see a way forward with aging the twins up to make Young Avengers happen with the way the movie and Wanda's arc ended?

Absolutely. Here's the thing. Now that Wanda has destroyed all of the dark holds, multiverse travel is going to get very, very difficult. Now, if I'm Kang, I'm like, yo, she had a kid. I guarantee that kid inherited some of her magic. I'm going to age him up or I'm going to go to the future and I'm going to nab him so he can help me with all of my hijings.

So I think that there is a very, very, like, clear way where, like, somebody could be like, oh, poop, we're going to get a variant or we're going to go to some future to get the twins where they're all grown up. I'm planning my flag on something. This is somewhat related and somewhat not. But how many people here have seen Heart Stopper on Netflix? I have not. I have not. Okay. There's a young actor in that Kit Connor, who also played, like, one of the young Elton Johns.

and in Rocketman. And like if he's not cast in the MCU within the next couple years as part of Young Avengers, I'll be so surprised. And if he's not cast as one of these boys, I will be so surprised. I'm just gonna play my flag. Wait, can I pitch you guys on one more other thing?

I just thought of it. What if we're thinking about this in the wrong way? If we're going off of the comics again, what if her twins never disappeared? what if their souls embodied to other souls like they did in the Young Avengers? So technically they might still be in our universe, but they're already aged up. They just don't know that their mother was Wanda because that's how they're introducing the Young Avengers. So potentially they're already teens.

We just have not been introduced to them. Does that bring Mephisto into play? I can't recall if that story was Mephisto related. I just needed to see Jomey fall out of frame one more time at least. I didn't say Mephisto. I did not say Mephisto. I said it, goddamn. Talking about Billy and Tommy, Wicking and Speed,

Afisto-related. I think Billy and Tommy might already be out there. Their souls just might be in different bodies, teenage bodies. I'll say one thing. If Mephto is going to come in, that's how you get them in, right? It took Billy and Tommy souls out. You know, so. Or Agatha.

Maybe they're in house of purpose. I'll tell you right now, we're setting ourselves up for the big, Fat kill. I'm telling you right now, we're doing it again. We've always talked about House of Harkness, fucking Billy and Tommy fucking Mephisto. When the show comes out. Let's get some master pandemonium in the midst.

The show comes out. It's going to be six episodes of her learning spells. And then everybody's going to be fucked. I really hope House of Harkness is just Captain Haud and, like, gardening first. Yeah. I would love that TV show. I would watch it. We can go back to our genre question.

Let's get a musical. You know, we already have one jam. Yes. Let's make House of Harkness a musical. Let's do it. Get the Lopez's. Yes. I love it.

All right. Our next question comes from Adam. Because Strange has been in so many Marvel films as a cameo, has it hurt his character's journey in his own movies? Tony's barf moment in Civil War was a great springboard for that movie. Strange could have used something like that. I would say the opposite. I think that we're much more invested in Stephen Strange because of the roles that he's played in other films across the MCU than we,

then there's any chance we would be just based on his standalone movie, a movie that I think I like more than most people, but did not exactly rip the massive. I really, I really enjoy that. I mean, I like Marvel Magic a lot. You know, side appearances is not counting the many times that he's mentioned or something. He's in Ragnarok. He's in Infinity Warriors and end game. He's in No way home.

That's not that many. I think you could be the case that he could have been in more. And I think that, you know, we have seen so many examples across the MCU of how characters appearing outside of their own franchise is actually really the essential thing that like, cement something about their character. Or when something about the character has been unlocked, allows them to just run with that and develop it in full. Like, you know, the question includes the Iron Man example. But if we think back to that now, like, Iron Man 3 is the first film of Phase 4. Tony's trilogy is concluded when phase two, excuse me, when phase two begins. And then we get him in very meaningful ways in Ultron and Civil War and Homecoming and

Infinity War and Endgame. And that's like really responsible for the bulk of what we think about with Tony and Iron, the first Iron Man, right? Also true for Thor. I mean, we have a great, great, great solo film in Ragnarok that allowed us to really invest in the character and the version of the character are new. But then so many of the really meaningful, war moments, like these really heart-wrenching, surprising chemistry teamups with the Guardians

and stuff take place in Infinity War, endgame, and that happens because of what they unlocked in Ragnarok. Even like the introduction inside of the MCU to Peter Parker and Captain America's Civil War, yes, the great Spider-Man, Spider-Boy, Spider-Ling Exchange, that amazing. And they happen because of you, quote, the interaction he has with Bucking and Sam. Like, even think of what we've learned so far in the attachment we've made to Yelena. who's not had a standalone movie. I mean, obviously, Black Widow isn't part a Yelena origin story. But so much of our fondness for her comes from her role.

And Hawkeye, I just think the MCU excels that in particular, placing characters in other movies and allowing us to invest in them more. I just think a problem post-original Avengers lineup as we're adding and adding and adding is like, as you add and as you add, there's more and more air between when these people can show up. Because like we're talking about when is Wanda going to come back? Maybe House of Harkness. And we don't have a, do we have a date for House of Harkness? I don't think so, right? Like, and so they're just, they keep, you know, we have to get re-re in. And like there's all these characters that they're still adding and adding and adding.

And so in terms of returning to the characters that were invested in, there's just more and more time between their installments, it feels like. And they're not doing these big Avengers check-ins. like, you know, signposts to, to check in on everyone. So I don't know. I feel like the math is a little different than it was when Tony was able to show up. And also, like, there's never, there's never going to be anyone who's going to match what RDJ was for the MCU. It's like, you know, if we could put him in a movie, we would.

And so we're constantly checking in on him. But like, Stephen, I don't know, it's been so long. It feels like it's been a long time this is his first movie. And he's in Infinity War, but he's not in endgame. and he's in like a stinger and he's in no way home, but like he doesn't have a lot to do for himself emotionally in no way home. And so it's just sort of like, I don't know,

I just, I didn't feel the through line. That's what I, that's the problem. Not the problem. That's the thing for me. So so much of the story was dependent on Tony that every time you saw him, he was different. Like he changed, right? He went from being a guy who didn't care about anything

to a guy that cared so much that he would endanger everything. And he got a little bit more that way in every single movie. Like a little bit more that way. You could look at it and you could see a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. Battle of New York happens, he goes,

okay, I can't control everything. And his character grows. It's just not happening with strange. Like, it, just to be honest with you, to me, it's like, strange largely is the same guy that he was before. guy who feels like he knows everything and will do anything

to, and the ends will justify the means. You know, he, he's in control. He knows what he's doing. He is, at least in skill set to source or supreme. But, you know, he was mean to kids before when he was mean to Peter.

Does that mean he was going to be nice to America? No, he's still treating her like shit. So it's like you're, like, you're, I think that's the thing. At some point, the MCU was centered around, like Iron Man was kind of our avatar. It was centered around his growth and development as a character. So by the time we got to endgame,

he had this huge prodigious decision to make, which was whether or not to give up the life that he had already had, that he was lucky to have, to do the thing that he said that he wanted to do a couple of movies before, which was to go save the world. and protected from whatever threats came from space. And by the time he got there, that decision mattered.

Now, obviously he had a lot more time to develop that than Strange did. But we just haven't. It's strange. We're not there with Strange yet, despite all the movies he's been. Going off that, because when I was listening to the House of Art, Joe, you said something where it's like when Dr. Strange is like whipping, being like, yo, if R.D.J. was there. He would, you would have hit that so much differently. Do you think like Benedict Cumberpash needs a Thor Ragnarok?

Like needs like a little soft character reset. Not saying he's a bad Doctor Strange, but it seems like there's a level he has not unlocked with the character in the same way like Chris Hemsworth wasn't a bad Thor. But there was like something that he found in the character was like, hey, actually, let's do a soft reboot, reintroduced Thor and then everybody loved it. I still feel like character wise, Benedict can do more. What do you think specifically is missing from this portrayal? loves the character.

I think he's a little too similar to Tony in that, like, he's really, really smart. He's honestly the smartest in the room a lot of times. A lot of times he's a du-sacchumachina where it's like, instead of it being technology, he has the magic. So he just pops in to be like, all right, what do you? Did some plot stuff. Now I'm gone. And I just think that, like, he doesn't really have an emotional arc that I care about

that much. And just he hasn't differentiated himself as like. we were just asked like, yo, it seems like they're going to make him the Tony. And I'm like, well, he needs to be different with Tony. And I just don't know what that is yet to differentiate him as a character. I mean, and possibly that's why they're bringing Clea in. Like, possibly that's why Charlize is here to give like him something to hold on to that we care about. But also, I think I have no sense of what the Sorcerer Supreme does when we're not with him.

Whereas if you ask you what Tony does or if you have. ask me what Steve does when we're not with them, I could tell you. But like, what is the sorcerer, what is Steve, I mean, or not Sorcer Supreme, but what does he do, you know, in his role when he's not doing the things we've literally seen him do, you know? He sits around and waits for something to happen. I'm seriously. They talk about Ben and Jerry's flavors. Yeah, he monitors threats.

And as long as you don't act up, he doesn't buck you up with the magic. But when you act up, coming for that ass. That's not proactive. That's why I think sometimes he's like boring because at least with Tony we're like, oh, you want to save the world so much you're going to fuck up everything. Or it's like cap is like, no, there's injustice in the world. That's how we start civil war. It's like, no, there needs to be an Avengers.

With Dr. Strange is like people just knock on his door like, hey man, we need, we need you. And he's like, all right. So you all think the Avengers never cool out? No, no, but like I can, I know that what Tony's doing with like Pepper. Like he has a personal life or like he's doing Stark industry stuff or he's like pitching something in MIT or like Steve is like hanging out with Falcon or like doing laps you know and in around the monuments or whatever but what but like Dr. Strange like I guess he's friends with Wong but do they seem like they hang out I don't know and so what do they do

like I don't feel like he has a what's his life you know and if his life is his work then what's his work I don't know I don't know what it is and that's something I feel like I'm missing with him you know yeah I think building up the world of the mystic arts more would really help lock. Because I actually like the performance and the writing of the role across the films quite a bit. And I think there are so many interesting possibilities

with the mystic arts inside of the story. But like, you know, and we've talked about this on many pods so far, like when you're not as invested in that core relationship of like Stephen and Christine as you were in Cap and Peggy or Tony and Pepper, then it doesn't care.

the way that much. And we love Wong and we're interested in that friendship and the dynamic that they have. Like, I thought some of the moments that they had, you know, the idea of this guy, Stephen Strange, who is defined by his hubris. And so much of that development and his arc is when he can get himself to the moments of accepting not, like, not being the one holding the knife. Like the little moments where Wong gets to flex on him. Oh, yeah, like, you know, I got to learn about this because I'm sorcerer supreme and strange just muttering like, unbelievable the jealousy. Like those moments are great.

And I think more of those coupled with actually getting to spend more time in the magic. And maybe that's something that we can get in like a strange academy style show or any number of other ways as they continue to widen the world. I think that would just make the world feel fuller. Because to the point you're all making, like, when you think back to Tony, when I think back to Tony, I'm just as likely to think of him just hanging out with dummy in the garage in the lab as anything else, right? just like fucking around, you know, experimenting, testing, like trying to push the limits. And that breathes like so much fullness and richness into the arc because you just like feel like you have a sense of how he moves. I do think there were plenty of moments in Tony's arc.

And I love Tony Stark as Iron Man. A very meaningful part of the last decade plus of my life. There are plenty of moments where it's like, wait, exactly where we are, mostly in the earlier run of the MCU. He blew up all of his suits at the end of Iron Man's. and then that's just like not a thing that matters moving forward. It's not like there's never a moment in Tony's arc where something like slightly befuddling doesn't happen.

But there's a, but see, even the tinkering, right? He was building suits obsessively because of his PTSD. Yeah, I'm just a man in a can. Yeah. Right. So he was, he was like, I go down and I tinker because his PTSD, he had anxiety. So he was building all of these suits because he had gone to wear. he had seen whatever he had seen in Avengers,

and he was fucking scared. So he was escaping, having nightmares, not sleeping, going down into his workshop and building suits in order to cope, the blowing up of the suits in a way, to me, was him coming to terms with the fact that he didn't have to be scared all the time, that he didn't have to do that. And it still didn't completely go away. That character trait of him to be.

be hyper vigilant is really what took the Avengers to where they eventually got not only with Ultron but you know toward this decision with him and Steve and all of that so even in that movie like he explains why he is obsessively why pepper walks in and he greets her in a suit but it's not really him right I think the line from Avengers to Iron Man 3 is very clear I think Iron Man 3 moving forward you can feel some of the gap as you can across many arcs in the MCU, just like definitionally. Like that is going to happen when so many different writers and directors are inheriting the material in so many years path, right?

But yeah, you're certainly right. Like the vision that he sees an Ultron is having failed everybody and his partners and teammates scattered dead around him, right? That right there, that's the end game. Like that, I totally agree that that brings us to that, to the ultimate concluding arc. I think the closest we've gotten to understanding Stephen Strange is like a person in his day-to-day sorcerer supreme life is the movie that Mallory and I enjoy the most, which is Infinity War, because when they crash into him, he and Wong are like going to get

tuna melts, right? It's just sort of like, oh, this is what happens. Who? Like, right, like, I get, in that movie, I get a sense of here's Wong and here's Stephen and they're just guys who need sandwiches too, you know what I mean? And I just want more of that for Stephen. I like it too. I also like, I also like, I like when the Hulk crashes and he does like that and puts the cape on. He's always ready to go, God damn it. The cape is the s on the shit. The cloak of levitation is the absolute best. Do you think the cloak of levitation gets paid, like gets overtime?

What is the cloak? The cloak of levitation is sentient, right? Yeah, it's like a living thing. What does it do for fun? Why don't we have a Marvel one shot about, we're talking about what Steve does in a thing? Fuck that. far of a one shot what is the cloak of levitation?

You think the cloak of levitation is like taking out one of Ironman's suits on a date? Like just going, just like playing the field with all the costumes. This is the type of shit

we think about. That's so cute. He's probably getting like fucked up drunk like with Thor. It's going to be like I know he has the best most fun.

Look at Jomey. Jomey's like what the fuck did he talk? Wait, what do you think the cloak of levitation drinks? Do you think he drinks? detergent or like beer

Absence That's not Love of Levitation is a moonshine man Moonshire All right He goes hard in the paint I think the cloak Likes that like thousand year old

Concentrated spirit that Thor gives That Thor hat Ooh yeah All right we got a question from Thomas When did Wong pick up Shang Chi And why wasn't it addressed kind of can see how that would happen at a different point.

But part of the problem with this phase is we don't have a final destination of all these teasers. Love the show. Waldron is going to talk about this in the interview in terms of what takes place when and why we might be confused about the timing of things. But like, doesn't it feel like Wong and Carol and Hulk like their little counten, council, mini council, doesn't that feel like something we haven't seen be formed yet? And so it takes place in a future that we haven't seen yet? Or do you think it currently exists? Not like a far future.

Like, as in multiverse of madness happens before that? It feels like it. Or the cutscene or the, no, not multi-we. So that the multiverse of madness happens before that cutscene. That's stinger. Like, I don't, I don't know. It's just like it feels like, because we were trying to figure out, what is going on because,

you know, Bruce has his arm and a sling and Carol's hair is different and all the stuff like that. So we're like, when is this? And Marvel is, I mean, again,

I don't want to, Walter will talk about this. But like, I don't know. I feel like it's not all happening in order. And that's part of what the question. If you guys disagree, that's fine.

I just, well, I have no clue. There's nothing for me to disagree with it. Oh, same. I don't, I have no clue. I wonder why abomination

didn't like come help when Wanda was fucking killing everybody in Carmatage. But, but. Need Blonsky in there. She was like killing everyone in Carmatage, innocent people. And abomination is Walt's friend. He does nothing. Everyone should have come to help. They should have been another on your left.

But I really don't know. Where was Ned? Ned should have sling ringed in to help, you know, what's going on? man, Ned ain't never picking that sling ring out of the game. Ned was getting wasted in Boston. He's already in 19. He doesn't even remember. Ned is going to thrive in college.

Ned's going to do so well. He's going to have time of his life in college. So let me ask you a question. Since Ned doesn't remember Peter, does he remember anything about the sling ring or anything? Does he remember that he's magic? Does he remember all of that stuff? Yes.

He just thinks he did it with Spider-Man, right? He just doesn't know who Spider-Man is. But then one day he's going to be. sitting there in his dorm room alone like I am many a night building a Lego, right? He's going to be there. P-6,000, clicking into place in the Death Star. He's going to look

at little palpi. He's going to feel something deep inside. And the memory of Peter Parker will awaken. Yeah. Are you talking about you're talking about Peter Tingle? He's going to feel the Peter Tingle. Love a Peter Tingle. And then all of a sudden, Bad Bunny is going to be in the movie. Oh. Oh my God.

Charles, what do you think Ned is up to in college? Oh, he's getting it in, okay? Like, yo, he is on hinge, just like, that's what I think is actually going to turn him evil. Like, he's in his future phase, right? And he's finding the love of his life. And then Peter's going to swing in and be like, dog, I figured out how to give you your memories back. And then he's going to realize, like, his life before. He's like, God damn it, Peter, I was the man on these streets.

And now you've ruined my life. and then he becomes the hobbit. I think it's going to happen because I think the love of his life is going to be MJ. No. I see it coming, baby. They always do this to Peter. Do you remember when He Who Shall Not Be Named played Harry? Yeah, and swooped in on his, no, we can't say his name.

Listen, you already said Ansel Elgarde, so we're going to say Jasonryka. Okay, I'm sorry. Oh, I forgot. Yeah, but anyway. So I think that that's going to be a thing. If they ever make another movie, I don't think shit. I'm watching the movies from second to second as they're in front of my face with no expectations. I forgot already.

Jummi, I know this was something question, but what do you think Ned's doing in college? I really invested. I know exactly what is Ned doing. Nets doing what I was doing in college, which is watching Aging's of Shield? He's watching Agents of Shield. He's watching Agents of Shield. He's eating. ice cream at at 2 a.m. And he's

locked out of his bedroom because his roommate is getting it in with his girlfriend and he's got to like be on the couch to stick about like where it all went wrong. So this is the fucking saddest thing I've ever heard before in my life. Oh bro. I got I got stories dog. It was rough.

Wait, that was what you were doing, Jomey? No, he's bullshit. No, I'm not lying. But look, I don't want to take up time. But one night, I came home, right? My roommate was with his girl. And so I was like, bet, man, I'll come back. I'll come back later. It's cool.

You know, I go back like, you know, like 4 a.m. The door is still locked. I was like, get a, you know, it's time to go to sleep. And I was like, listen, I was like, it's cool, you know, like, it's cool. I'm just, I'm going to sleep on the couch. Like, who needs to sleep on any bed because you got your girl over there? Oh, no, no, no, no. I'm not sleeping on no couch.

I was being nice. In retrospect, the thing was my key was in the room. I locked my key in my room, so I didn't have a way to get in. Oh. I was just like, oh, so you could have walked in. No, no, no, no. It's locked, but my keys in the room, so I'm like, yeah, it's just, I don't want to knock and wake them up.

You know, I'm just, I'm just kick this couch, but it's coming out. No, we're waking everybody up. Come open the door. I have more sad stories. By the way, Miss, don't you think it's about time that you make your way back to your dorm room? Miss. Young lady.

Young lady. Don't you have somewhere to be? Do you have an early class tomorrow? Okay. The more I think about it, like, you think like, man, middle school, high school was bad. It was rough. Like, my whole life has been rough, man. The fact that I'm still here smiling, man, is just by the grace of God.

Damn, Jomey. I have, I have tails, man. If you hurt this stuff, I'm in. No wonder you're going so hard out here, you know, breaking hearts out in L.A. I get it. Oh my God. Oh my God. What?

What's the next question, John? Well, here's, no. Actually, I actually wanted to speak on the Wong thing, though, because in Shang-Chi, we're like, why is this dude out here doing his side quests? You know, like, what's going on? Like, we find out he's a Social Supreme. Like, he's doing what he's supposed to do. He's, like, outside, you know?

So I find it interesting that, like, he's, while he's the Socialist Supreme, he's out here got his hands in so many pockets, we know this. we didn't know what Steve Strange was doing when he was the Social Supreme We didn't know if he was like Running around so I think And the fact that they kept him as Social Supreme

After this movie They easily could have you know Killed him or had him give the mantle up And he was like not he's gonna be the Social Supreme Going forward So there is like this does have meaning This will come back and play And you say you talk

You guys had the interview with Michael Walter And we just have to see like When does this come to fruition That's an interesting plot point. It feels like the abomination sequence where, you know, we see him dueling abomination at the golden daggers and then like it's very clear in the conversation after that whole exchange that they have a relationship, right? That we could get clarity on that part in she hold, right? That could come pretty soon. Probably.

Yeah. Yeah. But when will we find out about the beacon? Because that stinger and as you mentioned, the Carol Bruce inclusion, but like the whole thing about the. beacon in the 10 rings, when will that aspect of the story come back into play? Yeah. Chongti 2, baby. I mean, that's the thing is like these stingers that are casting so far forward, like,

when are we going to see Harry Styles again? When are we going to see Charlize their own again? After those two costumes, I saw your tweet, you know, they can stay in the talk. It's been overrun. It's been wrong. But I just mean, but I mean, they're like, they're promising so far forward. Whereas it used to be, I feel like these stingers were like The next movie.

Yeah. You know? And now it's like we're doing casting announcements. Now here's a beacon on a mysterious council that we haven't formed yet. I don't know what's going on. So I went back and forth with the Twitter troll about that. Something I've been doing a lot lately. And if you think about these scenes, it used to be very intentional.

Avengers. Okay, look, at some point there's going to be an Avengers movie. however long that takes. All right, you know that, right? And every single singer was like the next Avenger coming into it, right? Thor's Hammer, you know, we're putting a team together.

You're two stingers on the same subject. One with Fury and then one after Hulk with, you know, Robert Dyer Jr. coming back with a slightly different goatee. I don't know why it was different. But they're, you know, they're talking. And you knew boom, boom. and now I think it's a little bit more mysterious

and maybe too mysterious because it's not helping me formulate it's not helping me understand the greater world anymore. I'm kind of just like what's going to happen and I almost forget them you know what I mean? I almost forget them because they're not paying off on the promise of the one before but also the world's a lot bigger.

I mean that does connect to that earlier point that you're making Joe just about how many movies and the shows too you know it's like phases one and two. were six movies and now we have phases that are 11, 12 movies and we've got six, seven, eight shows. Like, who knows what the math will be of every phase moving forward?

Yeah, but it's a lot. Who cares about the shows? The shows don't know. No, no, no, no, no. I cut a question from the mailbag so that we would not have to have this conversation. Hashtag spare Jomi. Fair Jomey for being right.

Our last question, this is a Joe special. from Rory In honor of our new edition Clea, can we rank the best and worst hairdos in the MCU? Wig Corner!

Should everyone throw out a best and a worst? How should we do this? I mean Mordo is overall worst. That's worse. Mordo's worst. You guys went so long on Mordor was so good. It was one of my favorite things that I've heard. It was so good. But I do have another worst

and I feel bad for PICs. I have a best right away. Best hair. What is it? Grandmaster, easy. That's a good one. That's a really good one. Really good. Grandmaster.

Jeffrey G. Never disappoints me. Great hair and Ragnarok overall. Great hair and Ragnarok overall. I'm going for best. I'm going for Steve Rogers' beard. Thank you. This is also my pick and it's the only pick.

I was going to go with a little wiglet that they put on Chris Evans because there's just like this little hair piece that they put at the front of him to make him just look like that extra kendall heroic. And if you know it's there, you can see it in all the moot. Look out for the Steve Rogers Wiglet. Oh, no. Now you're ruined it. Now I'm going to go back and watch these movies. It'd be like, ooh. It's very apparent. It's very apparent.

It's there. It's my favorite. I love it. Steve Rogers with the long hair and the lush beard. And the rolled up sleeves. The rolled up sleeves is one of the greatest gifts that we have ever received. that is just iconic and unimpeachable. Up there with Harrison Ford and Witness

as the sexiest anyone has ever looked. Harrison Ford and witness? Yeah, when he's when he's like, you know, looking over the car and drumming on the roof of the car. Tell that, tell that. Amish sexual pension. I was about to say,

the stars get you going, huh? That's a sexy movie. That's a sexy movie. That's a sexy movie. I was at the closest I will ever get to understanding Beatlemania. is being at D23 when they first showed that footage of Cap in the train station, grabbing and like grabbing the trident and walking out of the shadow

and just wailing and screaming and people tearing their clothes off essentially. I love to see Cap grab the Trident. Oh. Woo. Dewee. Whoa. Children listen to this. Molly.

Whoa. Whoa. Excessive hoardiness. You know what? That wig also explained how he was able to beat somebody who had just fucked up vision. But whatever. I've got two other worst.

Wait, did everyone do it best? I did the best. I did, my best is, my best is. Jeff Goldblum. My worst is the sideburns of Falcum. Terrible.

Go back and watch it. In Endgame, that last scene where they're at the... Go back and watch it. They're like trash. No, there's one from Endgame that is way worse. And I feel bad for even saying it. I don't know what happened to Captain Barclan. I have a pick from Endgame too, but it's another one.

Oh, is it? What is it? How many from Endgame are there? I'm shocked. No one has said this. To me, the worst hair in the MCU is not close. Yeah, it's Clint. Oh, I changed my name.

Bade Hawks. Like I did it or something. The moa of the murder. No, but wait, though. I fuck with that, though. I like, I don't know. It could be a good haircut on someone else. It's not working for Clint.

You guys are using, there's too much of recency bias here. We have to go back. We have to go back to Iron Man 2. We first met Natasha and Iron Man 2. And Scarlet was under like the worst curliest red mop, first of all. Number two, Loki. in the original Avengers with the hair daggers

that are like flipping out at the bottom into it. Hell no. Hey, you know whose hair really sucked in their first movie? Who? Doors. Thor? The eyebrows, the blonde eyebrows?

It's the bleaching of the... The Thor, it was whack. I'll be honest with you. It was whack. Look, you go back. They ended up getting a lot of stuff right that they... It was a process.

You know what I mean? It was a process. But I tell you what, Chris Evans always looked good. They never fucked over Cap. Cap was always the one. They always had him looking swab every single time. Even when he was skinny, big head CGI cap.

He had like some flop, good floppy hair. A little flop. He was moving the flop. I can do this all day. You know what I mean? The whole nine. What is everybody's favorite Thor hair? I like Ragnarok and I'm kind of mad.

Short Thor hair. Yeah. I'm kind of mad that the. The wrong wig is back. Not mad, but I'm just sort of like, I liked it without the wig. Joey, Adiron, it's not a wig corner without you. What are your wig thoughts? So my pick was going to be, my best hair, was Thor Ragnarok Thor.

You know, like he got the fade, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. He got hooked up. He went to Harlem. He got that. That's what I'm saying. I went down by fifth, had the boy in the back, the chair in the front. Get him good.

You know what I'm saying? See, bow, Joe, I don't know if y'all know this, but you can't go to the brother in the back. Like, he's in the back for a reason. Yeah. Oh, okay. Keen him back for a reason. Nobody in his chair. Like, he's like, I'll take you young blood.

He's like, no, I'm good. Nope. So, walking there, you be like, I got you. Like, do you wait? I'm like, nah, dog. If you're not waiting for you, if you're not waiting for your cut. No. You got, my friend.

You got the Lord. You got Jesus. He'll always be here for you. Is it like a stick? layer of dust on his chair. Like no one's, I'm going to tell you guys right now, though, a hairstyle that we are forgetting. A hairstyle that is, to me, the most influential hairstyle in the history of the MCU. The only hairstyle that I can remember dudes saw in the movie and then they went out and actually got it even still to this day.

And that is Michael B. Jordan's killmonger hairstyle. that my friend Ian right now, I'll show you a picture of him, is proudly rocking to the detriment of almost everyone who knows him. He's an incredibly handsome guy, but that's something that after a look, that's something that after look, he looked like Kilmonger.

Look at him right there. You see him? I see it. I see it? handsome dude, but he looked like smooth soul Kilmonger. But dudes start. dude started rocking that after he had that. Like that actually became a cultural hairstyle.

It was like, go in there, you'll be a one on the size, a killmonger on top. Yeah, it was bad. The black community hasn't recovered. You know, facts. Jomey, what's your worst? I mean, like, I think Vans Point, Falcon sideburns, they look painted on in endgame. It's bad. I went and saw a director strange the second time.

and dog more every single one of Bordeaux's braids is at a different height bro. Yeah. It's how it is for it. Like he don't even got a hair line, bro. It's peaks and valleys, bro.

Why do it like that? Dog, that shit looked like the crypto stock market. It's like, shit. It's so nasty. It's like Marvel was talking about diversity and inclusion and it's cool giving us big movies and stuff like that, a bunch of black people and all of that.

other ethnicities and cool, but it's the little shit that we know that we need more voices in the room. I can tell you straight up, if there's one black lady on the set, she's going, you see that shit? That's not going to work. This shit is not going to work. You got that from Party City on LaBreya.

You cannot, you cannot have him looking like that. In the trailer, of all the things you look in the trailer and they try to fix, how come nobody tried to fix that? Reshoot that. Well, remember, when we did the trailer breakdown we talked about that for like 30 minutes

was like bro what what's going on with the boy Mordo bro like and not it looks so it looks nuts looks like an unpaved street dog the way it's up and down and up and down bro it's nasty

it's foul here's my request as the mayor of Whig Corner I would like to hear from our listeners what they think is the worst hair in the MCU and I would like images. Send us photos. Tag us. I would like to see all the worst hair in the MCU. Natasha's a really interesting one. There's, the audience is divided on which is her worst wig. There's a lot of options there. Winter Soldier. What's your favorite

Nat hair? It's winter soldier. I like Winter Soldier. Oh, she was, she's got the long, she's got the lob. I like it, but it, I don't know, it just looks like it's the, it's the most different outside of the curls. It's the most different. Look, she has. I like the Infinity War hair. Again, Infinity War is a good hair movie. I love the Infinity War hair. The blonde.

That's really good. The Infinity War hair. And I like the end game hair, the half grown out hair. Like really showing. Yeah, the roots. And then Black Widow and, which is like a braid extravaganza. Did y'all like Haim dolls, Hymdolls, Dres when he grew them out? Hell no.

Hell no. Like, you know, he's just Albaugh, like, he's such a sexy man, but like even he could work that shit, right? Like, come on. You think they use the same wig for Mordo? It's probably the same. Probably the same one.

It's like, look, we're going to just repurpose this right here. Dusted off storage. He was so bad, man. They do have all that stuff in storage. It's amazing. Iron Man's couch is in storage somewhere. All right. Do we do it, Malloy?

I think so. Jomi. That's it, right? that is all the questions. Take to everybody who submitted. We had over 200 submissions. Oh, wow. Shout out to us. The people wanted to know. Amazing stuff.

Any final thoughts from anyone before we wrap? Oh, I need to do a corrections department. Really quickly, I've been saying a wrong thing on several podcasts because someone who's smart said it to me and I just accepted as fact without double checking myself, which is that it was never the plan that Wanda Vision was going to come before or after never the plan that WandaVision

was going to come after multiverse of Madness. Always the plan that Wanda Vision was going to lead into multiverse of Madness. So other things change on the schedule but not that. So, corrections department my apologies were saying the wrong thing. So I have something I want to say. Oh. I do. I want to say this.

It's just a look that. Van Gets. And I want to make sure that everybody here. When I was a child, like three years old, I fell in love with Superman. Felt in love with Superman. And the first thing in my life, more than anything else that I took time

to endeavor into was people flying around. We would go, my father would take me, my dad would go in there, they would, these guys and my family, they would dip snuff. I don't know if you guys know this. My Uncle Petey, he would take snuff and put it in the side of his jaw, and then he would do discussing things,

like throw the snuff at me, like ha ha ha ha ha ha. I'm like funny, you torture a kid. But whenever they would go in, the price that they would have to pay for me going in and buying snuff when I was a kid, and I shouldn't even been selling it

and retrieving things for them was that they had to buy me a comic book. And over the course of my life, I amassed 7,000 comic books. And then we lost them in a hurricane, sad story, all of that stuff. So I love this stuff. I love it.

I love it with every fiber in my being. I also love a lot of other stuff, movies and all kinds of other stuff that we don't talk about on the podcast. But don't ever mistake the fact that I might not be stoked on something, that I might not be absolutely in love with something, with the fact that I am not enthused and in love with the content that we're covering. I love it so much and I loved it through a time when I used to get laughed at

and teased and picked on where you'd be going on road trips and football and guys would open up my bag and I'd have Wolverine and Maverick and Emma and Spawn and all of these books in there. They'd be like, yo, you're on varsity now. Stop acting like a child. And then we had to fight. The fight of men. So I've been this way for a long time and I'm not. not trying to put anybody off to any criticism, but it's just sometimes this shit doesn't make sense. Sometimes it's all right to be a hater, guys.

It'll be fine. No, I just want to make sure to be people, don't question my love. Don't question my love. Aw. I never would. Man. Never. Loving something means asking questions about it

and interrogating what works and what doesn't. That's what real passion is. That's how I show my love. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's all right, guys. there has to be balance in the force, okay? There needs to be the dark side, okay?

I'm happy over here. I love it over here, okay? It's okay, it's fine. There's no light without a little darkening. He killed younglings. Younglings. Not the younglings. Oh, my God, I can't have to turn it off.

You can't do the Younglings line without the... The way he moves his hand on. Younglings. Yo! Right. Before we go, before we go, will Canobi in Obi-Wan have a flashback of the younglings getting slaughtered of him watching it? I don't know, Van. I'm taking things moment to moment.

Moment to moment. Moment to moment. No expectations. Second to second, moment to moment. Will Obi-Wan fight later? Who knows? All the flashbacks in Obi-one are going to be about Seteen. Oh.

Oh, the revenge of Mal. I can't believe I missed. Darth Mal. I, listen, let me just say this. I think that Obi-Wan and Ventrists have some of the most crackling chemistry in the history of content. I do agree with that. That's, I'm on the, long on-the-record take of mine. I feel that way, too.

I like to think that they could have fucked at any point. But Satin is the one true love. He literally says, I would have left the Jedi Order, if you would just ask. There's the thing, Mal, if we know anything, Obi-Man, Obi-Wan, you know, does a lot of talking, not a man of action, okay? All that chirping, I would have left the order for you. Come on, man.

You know how many girls I say that? Obie, Obie Man for a bunch of girls. Obie. Obie toxic Kenobi. For real, he listened to the future. He's like, he's hopping. He's going to Air Girl. I'm in a minute.

I would have left for you. Don't worry. Guys, this is going to be a big fight if we go down this room. He would never do that. When people say, you know, what are your favorite love stories of all times, cite a movie, a television show, anything. Two of the first things I name, the Lawless, that episode of Clone Wars, and Wally. Oh, Wally's great.

Oh, Wally's, come on. I think about that romance and what happened after that movie so. I hope they're happy. Me too. Me too. Okay. This was a delight. as it always is when the House of Midnight assembles.

Right now, though, America Chavez is going to open a portal into our chat with Multiverse of Madness writer Michael Waldron. So please stay tuned for that. Coming right up. This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Cole has a return,

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a picnic or brunch, as is their trending, man. go, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Joining us now, making his return via multiversal portal back into the ringerverse Zoom after our delightful loki chats last summer. It is Dr. Strange in the multiverse of madness writer Michael Waldron. Michael, welcome back. Thank you for exiting the reality that you choose to dream walk into where presumably every single person is a professional wrestler or aspiring professional wrestler

so that you could chat with Joanna and me today about Dr. Strange. Thank you for having me. It's an honor. I'm so excited to be back. We are so excited that you're here. We have so much that we want to get to today and not a lot of time before the book of Vashanti burns before our very eyes. So let's dive right into the interview gap junction. For me, the way in to that gap junction is the balcony on which you stood at Christine Palmer's wedding. Great cameo. I did a little, hey, I know that guy, point and whisper in the theater, super chill and normal stuff. If you or your alternate self could have had a cameo in any other scene in this movie or any other MCU property to date, what would you have chosen?

Wow, what a great question. Any other MCU property today? I would have liked to be next to Proxima Midnight getting grinded to a pulp just so I could have gotten to work with Carrie Coon. That's my answer. Fun fact, we will circle back to Carrie Coon in this interview. So Mallory has decided to dub you the multiverse czar. That's what Mallory has decided to call you over here. Thanks to your work on Loki and Multiverse of Madness.

And I know that your pal Jeff Loveness is working on Quantum Media. As you're holding all these strings and bits and pieces of the multiverse together, like how much are you thinking about the bigger picture as you're working on these multiple Marvel projects? Probably not enough. I mean, the truth is the each individual project is so enormous that you really can't afford to, you can't be trying to think deep into the future. You know, that's it. The goal is how do you make this Dr. Strange movie awesome? And how do you make this Loki show awesome?

And then you just hope that you're shared, you know, there's a shared sci-fi language between the two of them and between everything else that that's easy to follow for an audience and that, you know, that everybody else working in the MCU and all this stuff, you know, that we can all sort of follow that blueprint because it's, you just, you don't want it to get, you don't want the audience to lose the plot, you know, as happens in comics sometimes. So you just, I think really you stay focused on your specific project is actually the healthiest thing to do. I have sort of a related question just in terms of Loki and cracking open the multiverse across the MCU, but also the way that these stories relate or in some cases maybe it's better to think that they don't always have to intimately intricately relate. The ongoing discussion among Marvel fans about how we think about the multiverse in the MCU, what each new installment teaches us about the rules of the universe, the way the multiverse is going to function across the stories, what the characters learn about it, and when.

When did you know that your film would be releasing after Spider-Man No Way Home? And how did that specifically, or any other scheduling wrinkles, impact the way that you crafted the story on the multiverse front or otherwise? Well, fortunately, that date shift happened. it was more us pushing and Sony kind of holding or I think maybe they only push two months and we pushed way further. It happened over the summer of 2020. I came on to this movie in February of 2020, like literally three weeks before COVID.

I was like, I remember like having, I just come on. And I was like, do you think this thing is going to affect the movie? I don't know. And so that date shift happened right around the same time that Sam and I were given the green light to basically start over and say, all right, let's do something entirely new here. It was a little bit of a shift from at least how I'd been thinking about the movie, you know, for the last couple of months, which is like I was going to get to really lean on the fun of Stephen Strange interacting with a teenager for the first time.

You know, it's like, I think in my very first draft, which is nothing like what this was, there was a little more of that Alan Grant thing of this guy doesn't know how to relate to kid and all that. But it's like, now he's been on an adventure with teenagers. And the other thing was we, you know, now the audience, the lid has been busted on the on the multiverse um there's some familiarity with it there was actually less explaining we had to do i'm curious about like in terms of that timeline so you get the covid pause you and sam decided to start over uh you've talked about how you decided to move wanda

from sort of an ensemble character who falls at the end of the movie to you know full bore villain throughout one of my but one of my favorite things that came out of the early days of disney plus is your friendship with Jack Shaver, Jack Schaefer talking to you about Wanda Vision, you talking to her about Dr. Strange. I was wondering, you know, WandaVision also has a COVID pause and they have to come back and finish it all up at the end of COVID. You've changed gears by then. What kind of back and forth conversations do you have about ending Wanda Vision in a place where it feels like it leads into Wanda's arc here in your film? Well, I mean, Wanda Vision was so much more a finished, fully realized product by the, you know, it's like, A, it was just bigger in the sense there were more scripts that existed. And really, the last thing, I did, I was like, this thing's perfect. I was like, Wanda vision is perfect. If we're forcing Jack to, to alter her vision, or if we're retroactively,

you know, ruining it, then it's a failure. And so I guess if anything, it maybe just made them lean into that dark, hold stuff a little bit more, you know,

and that tag, you know, there were always elements of that, though, that, I mean, the story is what it is, that it's Wanda,

to me, at least, And I think there's a lot of interpretations of that show, which is why it's so great. You know, she confronts her grief and her denial of it. I don't think she necessarily overcomes it. She does make a heroic choice in the end in the sense that she releases. She stops doing something villainous. And she walks away with maybe a better understanding of who she is,

certainly a better understanding of who she is. And she also walks away with the dark hole. and so she was always going to walk away with that dark hold. And so I, you know, I think that maybe helped them lean into that a little bit more that they knew we were going to go there immediately in our movie. Because otherwise, and I found this, we were really going to retread Wanda Vision. if we if you just had Wanda as a member of an ensemble

struggling with her place and ultimately falling. I'm sure there was a great version of it. I'm sure there's a great version of everything.

But I am. I do really believe in what we did and I feel like it was the right next step for the character. One of the things that Joe and I

spoke about for a while on our very deep dive, very, very deep dive pod, is just how long Wanda must have been alone out there in the wilderness in the apple orchard. Based on our best attempts to slot the phase for shows and films on a canonical timeline, like if Wanda Vision took place three weeks after end game and this movie takes place after No Way home, which is, you know, ending in Christmas 2024, then Wanda has been alone with the dark hold, with her dreams, and as best as we can tell, with no visits from her friends, from

her fellow Avengers, for a very, very, very long time, like 2023 to 2025 long. What discussions did you all have while making the movie about the amount of time that had passed in the canon for the characters and the impact? that that stretch of solitude would have on Wanda and whether anyone had checked on her during that time. This question can also be boiled down more succinctly to the Clint Barton, where are you, you piece of garbage inquiry?

Yeah, great, great question. What a dick. I mean, I'm literally, I have a phobia of like putting times on things. just from working in the MCU because it's like, we never quite want to like put that final of a point on it. But I think you're exactly right.

It's been a while. She's been there for a while. And I think it's, I think it has less to do with nobody trying to find her and more to do with she doesn't want to be found. You know, I think the, the one person that could find her is Stephen Strange

because what she's done falls under his purview. and at least for me, you know, my my head canon was that, you know, he was observing those, he became aware of those events, was observing them from afar and gave her the latitude as an Avenger, as an ally to do the right thing, which, which she did as he says. She set things right in the end. That was never in doubt. But yeah, I mean, Wanda's law, you know, and also it's like she didn't just lose her family and vision. She also lost Steve Rogers, you know, probably the other person that would have come to, you know, there's no Steve Rogers around to come and talk to her.

So she really is alone. The only thing she has whispering in her ear is, is that book. Yeah, you know, an evil book whispering your ear is not going to make for the finest mental health space. I'd rather have Steve Rogers whisper in my ear too, but that's for another podcast, you know? I promised me to circle back to Carrie Coon. I was recommending that people watch Army of Darkness before they watch this movie. Then someone else I saw on Twitter was like, you should watch the leftovers before you

watch this movie. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. All three of us here on this podcast are huge Damon Lindelof fans. And so I was just wondering if you could talk about this idea, Carrie Coon and the leftovers for folks who don't know, plays a character whose children are in another. space and it's a lot about her grief and should she go find them, should she stay and make a life for herself where she is, et cetera. I was wondering if you could talk about that as a potential influence on the Wanda story you're telling her. I've never thought about it until 10 minutes ago when you said we'd circle back to Carrie Coon and I realized, oh my God, like the parallels

between Nora and Wanda, but now I can carry that with me as my armor into conversations about why I did this to the character. And it's, yes, of course, it's Nora. Look to the links that a mother will go to reunite with their family. Yeah, I mean, that's obviously that show, I love it. It's the best thing in the world. There's not, to me, a better exploration of brief and loss, but also hope than that. And then I think that show is staggering and how good it is. They had the benefit of they got to build that over, over three seasons. But it's like, it's so devastating in its own way when, when Nora makes the choice to go into that crazy,

uh, vault or whatever. And you're like, is she going to kill herself? Is she going to do this for real? Like you see, she's snapped in her own way. Uh, so, and then what, whether it worked or whether the story she tells Kevin, Justin Thoreau in the end is just a fiction that she had to invent for herself. Either way, she crossed over to the other side, pushed by her grief. You know, I think that we tried to, again, I think we tried to do that with Wanda. And when you, you know, you can only do that if you have an incredible actor, Carrie Coon and Lizzie Olson, it's like you have to love them so much and feel for them and empathize for the psychosis, I guess, of what they're pushed to.

Folks, I have just heard in my earbud that John Krasinski and Patrick Stewart are portling and hovering into the Zoom, which means it's time to talk about the Illuminati for a minute. One of the true thrills of the movie, I have so many questions. here are just a few of them. Was Tom Cruise ever actually in line to appear as Iron Man in this sequence? Which other characters were in consideration for inclusion? How much of a factor was the original comics notion of choosing characters who represented different factions of the Marvel universe? Which of the deaths was the most fun to write?

Do you promise to never explode our brains inside of our helmets no matter how our future interviews go? And what interviews? Let's see. I'll go, I'll go in order. Tom Cruise, that was never a possibility that I know of. I would have loved it. I think I suggested it because I love Tom Cruise. I let the, I'll scream it from the mountaintops. There's nobody I would love to work with more than him. And what a thrill that would have been. And also, I think we all remember like way back in the day, there was always that rumor that he was going to play Iron Man. So, but he was always off shooting Mission Impossible. So I don't think it was. For like three years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And we were, we were lucky, so lucky to get Haley Atwell on loan from Mission Impossible to, you know, or another action hero from that franchise to come play Captain Carter. The lineup that we got, like every one of them is like a name that you'd circle of like, okay, if we could get just them, then we're lucky and it all works. And instead, it's, it's, it's like murderers row. Like, like everybody's a cleanup hitter. I think everyone, everybody who ultimately sits on that council was like our pie in the sky person at one point. And then it, you know, we just kept doubling and tripling down until it was like, well, wait, could we just get all of them? Could we make this work? Yeah, I, that's, that sequence was a blast.

It was so much fun. It's just what the movie needed. I mean, the cool, the most fun death was not me. That was Sam with Black Bolt. And that was, it was a real glimpse into his twisted mind. It was like our first, it was like our first meeting with Kevin. We were like, well, how do we kill Blackbolt? Because that, the first death was always earmarked as like the big shock.

I always described it as like indie shooting the swordsman. Like that's how it should almost feel. And we're like, how do we do that with Black, Blackbolt? You know, he can destroy Wanda with just opening his mouth. And Sam on a Zoom with me and Kevin, everybody, goes, what mouth? And just pitches like, yeah, yeah. he gets so excited and suddenly he's 22 again making evil dead and it's like then he could just we erase his mouth and his head explodes and there it is that's it's all all that cool stuff

it's sam and our our vFX and storyboard teams um but i will say watching watching john krasinski uh on wires uh flailing his arm yeah yelling a yelling a yelling a yelling a yelling a yelling a yelling a yelling a yelling a as he's as he's shredded was also a lot of fun. Now that you mentioned your love for Tom Cruise and I saw Top Gun last night, this is now Top Gun podcast. No, I'm just kidding. I saw it two nights ago. It's the best thing I've ever seen.

It's so good. Broat. But I want to talk to you about, okay, we talked about Lindelof. Now I want to talk about Rick and Morty. Like, given your Rick and Morty, history and how much that show plays with multiverse concepts. Like how much are you thinking about Rick and Morty? And we know that Kevin's a big Rick and Morty fan.

Like how much are you thinking about that when you're figuring out like how zany to go with these multiverses in this movie? Weirdly, I was thinking about Rick and Morty in the sense that I was like, haven't audiences seen a lot of zany multiverses lately? And that was I got excited about the idea of the multiverse of Matt. And look, the audiences might have different. Well, clearly everybody's got a different opinion on it. But I felt like just going to a million different zany universes in this movie, the way we do in Rick and Morty might have.

actually make this movie feel more like a, like a cartoon. And you run the risk of those universes feeling like sketches, almost. And so what we got excited about was the idea of, what if you really invested in one other universe, if this is the first time we're going to another to the multiverse, what if we really sold the audience on the idea? that when we say the multiverse is real, that means that it's real. And these are other universe where basically it's another MCU happening concurrent to ours with real stakes, with real history, real character stories and everything.

And so when bad shit happens in the multiverse, it's not happening to sketches to little, you know, it's happening to real places. that you could care about as much as you care about our MCU. That felt important to me as we step into this era of multiversal storytelling in the MCU, when we're going to perhaps say the multiverse is at stake. You need to believe that all these other universes are real places with real characters you actually care about. That's an incredibly insightful and thoughtful answer. and it makes my desire to follow it up with Mr. Star Wars movie, man, is that lava glimpse

Mustafa seem kind of silly, but I am still going to ask you that. And then I'll transition back to more character. Come on. Mustafar is not the only lava planet. I know, but the internet, they need to know. I love that they think that's Mustafa. No, it's not. It's the, that is, that's, that's, that's the lava world from Super Mario 64.

Wow. Okay, we're still in, in nerd heaven then. I love to land. All right. I'll ask a more serious question instead, which is about your love of knives. Love is a dagger. One of the most iconic lines from the Loki run. Christine's, you have to be the one holding the knife lines are among, I think, the most

incisive moments in this film. What is it about blades? and knife imagery that unlocks something core for you about your characters. So that's a great question. Yeah, my wife, that's a question for my wife. She's somebody who's seen me cut my finger open trying to use a knife to open a package before she's going to laugh at that. I honestly couldn't tell you.

but but now I feel like whatever it is if only there was some kind of iconic cutting tool in Star Wars yeah keep the tradition going that I can work that in with love as a lightsaber I love that I love it it's great it's a light in the darkness it can but it can turn off as quickly as it turns I don't know I don't know if fun it you can bleed a khyber crystal you know that's canon a lot of ways you could go with it you can purify one too yeah exactly

First of all, I just want to point out that Mallory has given you two nicknames now. It's Mr. Star Warsman and Multiverse Tsar. So you can put those on your business card if you want to. The thing that Mallory and I most have loved talking about when it comes to both Loki and Dr. Strange is the opportunity multiversal storytelling gives you to have characters meet other versions of themselves and use that exercise to better understand themselves through that process. So I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that. idea and how it translates to both projects? Well, it's forced self-reflection. It is quite literally. And the exciting thing with both Loki and Stephen Strange is I don't think they're characters that are naturally inclined to look inward. they, you know, they, in fact, they're doing anything they can to not have to do that. And so when Stevens confronted, it's easy for him to just be like, look, yeah, there's always,

there's only ever one way, my way, but it always works out and, and just barrels ahead. but when he's confronted in the multiverse with the truth that look either there's three other versions of me and each one of them has gone bad to escalating degrees they've made an escalating series of mistakes it makes him start to question his pretty rigid dog dogma that he lives his life that he maybe he never would have done i I think that Stephen has again a more TV-like arc in this movie and that it's just about gaining more of a realization of who he is and maybe why he is that way.

It's in the beginning, when he sees Christine at that wedding, he lies to her. He does the Spider-Man too thin. He says, I'm sorry it couldn't work out between us. I had to make sacrifices. And the truth is that's bullshit. That's Toby McGuire. And at the end of the movie, he tells her the truth,

which is, I'm scared. Because, and this was an idea, it was never really, maybe it was on the page at some point, but it was like too eye-roly. But it's like the truth, the heart of it to me is if you hand somebody else the knife, they can hurt you with it. Like, that's, and loving someone else is giving them the knife. And so that's, that's what we were really after with that.

Love is a dagger. Love is a dagger. Dagger, there it is. I know that we're down to precious few final moments here. When you were last here with us in the ring of verse, you just, you delighted us to no end by revealing that an earlier version of your Loki episode three script had included an Armadillo with a laser mounted on it that Sylvie wound up kicking like a soccer ball into the ocean. You said that Kevin Feigy often references it to you as the bar for what might be too much. And I have not been able to stop thinking since about the laser clad armadadad

armadillo and your writing process. So what can you share with us this time about ideas, conceptualized, written, actually filmed that you once intended to be in this movie that did not make the final cut? I mean, there's a lot. Let's hear them. A lot. There was a multiverse. Because one thing that's never really addressed in 838 is where's Wong in that universe. And my very first draft had instead of Wanda throwing Wong off the side of the mountain, she rewrites him. But instead of rewriting him sitcom style, she rewrites him into an 8.5. 80 style action hero, like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Commando. And then she, she like uses, she like takes him into the dream walk and he possesses his 838 self, who in this version became disillusioned with Comertage and is just a disgruntled Vegas magician.

So we called him Vegas Wong. So it was like him, there was like a scene of him performing magic on. on stage and then going back and smoking a cigarette and then he gets possessed and basically becomes this Arnold Schwarzenegger Wong. Oh my God. And he was part of, it was him, it was, he was with Wanda in the assault on the Illuminati sequence. Wow.

Wow. That was fucking crazy. I like, as I say it, how did I mean? You were like Vegas Wong? Vegas Wong taking on the Illuminati. Vegas Wong. But I would buy that Funko Pop. I would buy the Vegas Wong Funko Pop in a minute.

Hey, in another, maybe in another life. Oh, well, thank you so much for the chat. That was wonderful to talk to you again. Thanks, guys. You guys are the best, this is my favorite place. I'll talk to you guys anytime, truly. You have a standing invite, as you know. Come back anytime.

It's always a joy for us. Thank you. All right, everyone. Leah is here. The dark dimension is opening before us, so it's time to wrap today's episode. Thank you to Van, Charles, Joe, and Jomi for that delightful mailbag chat. A big thank you to Michael Waldron for joining us today. And of course, thank you to our sorcerers making this podcast, producing this episode, Carlos Chiboga, Arjuna Ram Gapal. And Jomey and Denneron for his work on the social for this episode. We will see you again next week.

Until then, Charles, take us away. Midnight mob, y'all better be nice to van, because my boy really, really cares. But we need Al Sharpton on the line to defend what happened to Mordos' hair. Feels like every product claims real protein these days. But real doesn't start on a label. It starts at the source. Like real California milk from California farm families, it's real dairy delivering high quality, complete protein,

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