The Ringer-Verse - 'Echo' Episodes 1 and 2 Instant Reactions and Nerd News | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

The Midnight Boys are here to talk about the first two episodes of Marvel's 'Echo' (06:11). Later, they break into all the latest Nerd News that comes to us from the world of 'Star Wars' (57:31). Hosts: Charles Holmes, Van Lathan, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone. I'm Mallory Rubin and I am thrilled to tell you that House of our has a new podcast feed. Joanna Robinson and I will now be with you twice a week with more of the deep dives you've come to know and love on the ring of universe. In addition to exploring all of your favorite nerd culture new releases, we'll have nostalgic revisitations, hype meters, hall of fame inductions, tropes courses, drafts, and more. All bad babies are welcome as we dive into Star Wars, Marvel, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, and beyond. Follow the new House of Our feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

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if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more, or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or road trip goes sideways. Ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Welcome into the Ringiverse. This is, of course, the Ringers Nexus podcast for all things. Fandom, I would say feed there, but I'm going to keep it. We are Coke Baby Chuck. I'm introducing Coke, Colt Baby Chuck first this time.

So there's no question. So there's no question. I'm introducing them first. Oh, I got, I got something on my chest. God is with something on my chest I need to get off. Mr. congeniality. We are. Steve, the architect,

Alman, the builder and tinker of things we are. Jomi, the Explaner on, you've got questions. He's got answers. We are. Obed Van He of the Recerger Haarline. Together, we are known as about midnight, boys. I believe.

Okay. Follow some socials, Insta, Twitter, Facebook. Save Jomi's job. Jomi. It's going on. Quite the trivia you have going on over there on the Twits.

You know, just trying to challenge our listeners, you know? I know they've seen a lot of content over the last couple of years, decades, really. And so you just want to, like, you know, try new things and see, like, hey, are you guys really paying attention? And to our audiences, you know, intelligence, they're locked in. Let me tell you who Jomey is, let me tell you who Jomi is, guys. I was watching National Championship game Monday night. And they said that J.J. McCarthy, I don't know if you guys saw this, who was right-handed,

Quarterbacks I know exactly you're talking about He brushes his teeth With his left hand Okay Because that creates Alpha waves in his brains Oh boy

What the fuck are we talking about this week? Man Like time out, time out Listen So J.J.D McCarthy is frankly a pioneer in sports In the way like he's very open, honest about how he gets down in terms of grounding himself before games.

Like he goes out there barefoot, meditates, talks to the sports psychologist on the timeline. That's real hoops, man. Like, you know, like, you always want people be open and honest about, you know, what they're going on and mentally. And so for him to be that open as a premier college athlete, it's really cool.

What? Out for brain waves. What are we doing, bro? Offer brainwaves. And that's what Jomey's trying to do. Jomey is here on out, no, the mind. master. Oh.

Oh. Johnny the mind master Adirondon. I don't know what. He's trying. He's giving you guys stuff. He's trying to create the alpha brain waves in your brain.

Everybody was like, we know the answer to that question, but you didn't see the answer to that question. The answer to that question is, all right. Enough of the bullshit. Stay on the House of Our Feed. Mal and Joe will be giving you their 2024 hype draft.

Hype, Steve named one movie directed by Hype Williams. Oh, the music video director? What other The other? No, Hype Williams

The Democratic Congress I don't know any. I only know who has a music video director. That's a Transatlantic Landslap. Okay, all right. Not drums worthy? Is it drumsworthy? Drumsworthy?

Now you got to bling. Steve. Oh, no, wait, wait, wait, hold on. I got that fucked up. I thought you said, I thought you were confusing the movie drums line for a movie called drums' I have seen drumline. I thought you were saying that in the name of the movie.

I thought you were saying that he directed Drumsworthy. I would have had to be like, Steve, you got to take a lap, bro. Drumsworthy is a good movie. Drumsworthy is the sequel to Drumline. Right. I don't know. I was like, did he do Drumsworthy? I was about to try.

We gotta kick Steve off the show, man. I can't deal with it. On Friday, House of R will be giving you their deep dive into Echo. And on Monday, Mint Edition returns to give you a musical edition of here comes the pitch. Here comes the pitch. Y'all doing musicals over there, huh? Yeah, there's a lot of musicals that have come out that are coming out in 2024. So we decided, like, what if we were at the studios, we decided, hey, we want to do some musicals?

What would we pitch to the folks? So, really excited for that. You're going to pitch musicals, or are you going to pitch these? musicals. Pitch things as musicies. Franchise musicals. Franchise musicals. But you guys aren't going to do

anything like musically. You're not going to be a If y'all don't drop a song on this episode, I'm not listening. I mean, maybe we might sing a little ditty or two. If you do a musical whole episode, it will flop. I'll just let you guys know.

Okay. All right. Well, that's good. Hold on. Let's write that down. Because we were thinking about it. We were going back and forth. Should we do like a regular episode?

Should we music episode? Now, did you mention that, we should it do the musical one. We should probably like stop the tracks. Now, I'll tell you one thing that didn't flop was Jomi and Kerm getting together for the Christmas Diddy. That was hard as fuck.

Right. That was cool. And that still makes me want to take it to the studio with the Midnight Boys. Oh, yeah, the EP. You know what I'm saying? Hell not. Call, what are we doing here?

Nobody's here for you, Otis. Slip some samples around? We can get some going, man. On today's show, we give our instant reactions to the first two episodes of Marvel Echo and take a new look at the latest Star Wars News and Nerd News Minute. You guys, we're going to be spoiling stuff today. We're going to be spoiling Hawkeye, Echo, things from the comic book, anything that we

might have read to supplement information here on Echo and the first two episodes of Echo themselves. We need a spoiler on XT. We're getting... ready to talk about Echo. You're listening to a reaction podcast.

The spoilers are coming. And to put you in the know about this show, there's only one place to go. That's Chuck Wagon with the Midnight Manifest. Chuck Takeaway. Are we doing this live or are we didn't do this after? We're not doing this at all.

This week. Okay. Okay. No, no, no. I got something to get off my chest. A lot of people talk a slick out there in these East streets thinking a Coke baby that has turned into a Coke man wouldn't have seen. So we're taking a pause today on the Midnight Manifest. Some motherfuckers can know

something, all right? I thought I was going to walk into this studio and tell everybody, people out there that have little things called change.org petitions to get your boy off the podcast, I thought that I was going to politely bow out, you know? But then you know what I said? I built this shit brick by motherfucking brick. Some motherfuckers need to know something, all right? Some would say.

The Midnight Claw is coming to every single city in these United fucking states. Eight minutes. Eight minutes. All right? Get your podcasters, get your fucking haters, get your MCU ball, ball huggers out, all right? Because guess what's happening? This year, the Midnight Claw

are going for the fucking championship belt, and you can't get me off my motherfucking perch, all right? Did you cut the promo? What's going on? You cut the promo? You guys. I want to let you guys know something. Charles got into character right there he did this whole thing.

When Charles turned around and looked at me, I was a legitimately scary. Look. Hold on. Hold on. I swear. Charles did his whole thing. We're having fun. We're joking.

When Charles turned around and looked, his eyes, that's what Steve is. His eyes were bucked up. Everything was just said was meant. Come on, man. Chuck, a bridge too far for you, the change that or petition.

I was about to sign that shit myself. I'm like, if we got enough signatures, a nigger, don't go. I'm talking about that. This is perfect. This is my only problem with the dude who made the change that or a petition. Shout out to everybody

and all the discourse that was happening. over on Facebook. I don't think you guys realize how much we like that. But my only problem is, like, he punked out. He did a change that org petition

to get Charles off the show and he was trying to make a little statement. And then he came back and crawfished and made a different one about like how great Charles is or something like that. Like, he, if you're going to be that motherfucker, be that motherfucker. Stand on business, bro. Come on. Get me off this show.

Please. guy's bleat. That's nuts. Um, look, uh, look, so no midnight manifest, you pissed off, Charles? No, there is a midnight manifest. Oh, okay. Well, we're fucking doing the midnight manifest.

Well, guys, I just had to, you know, have my diva moment. Oh, you got that. All right. Anyway, play the music, Steve. All right, this is your midnight manifest for the first two episodes of Echo created by Marion Dyer, spin off from Hawkeye, starring Alacka Cox, Chosky Spencer, Tantu Cardinal, DeVray Jacobs, Zahn McLarenin, and Vincent Donofio.

we begin with a young Maya playing with her cousin Bonnie in Oklahoma, but soon tragedy strikes when a car crash kills Maya's mother and causes the accident that forces the young hero's leg to be amputated. Her father William takes Maya to New York away from her cousin Bonnie and the rest of her family. And after shooting the kingpin during the events of Hawkeye, Maya returns to Oklahoma where she's intent on disrupting his operations and sending a message to his remaining cronies. And then after Maya blows up one of Fiss's arm warehouses in an elaborate train stunt,

Her uncle, grandmother, and cousins are pulled back into the criminal fray, and that has been your midnight manifest for the first two episodes of Vecca. Look, I want to talk about something before we get into Instagram. We have a lot of fun. We joke a lot and we talk a lot about content. The Midnight Boys here, we try to subvert your expectations about what a nerd culture fandom. podcast should be, you know? And that's very important. It's very important that we're consistently unpredictable, even when we're being predictable, and that we are truly authentic in what it is that we say and do. At the outset, when it comes to echo, I want to say something that I myself, and I'm sure

the rest of the Midnight Boys here, understand the importance and the significance of having not only an indigenous hero leader show but also one that is indigenous and disabled the visibility that goes along with that

the power that goes along with that for so many people that live in those same shoes that get to see themselves or just to see the show at parts in times you know,

normalizing or it's normal for the characters to talk in American Sign Language, right? So, all of those things are incredibly powerful and incredibly important. And we would be remiss not to say that we are

ecstatic that the show Echo exists. Beyond anything, uh, or should I say, beyond this moment, anything that we say about Echo is going to be about the show as we watched and enjoyed the show. You have to, if you're being fair to the show, be cognizant of the moment.

And the moment is there is a hero doing badass things on television that makes so many people feel seen and whole. We haven't done this type of disclaimer for things in the past. But I got an amazing message from someone who I really respect. And that message affected me. So before we move on, I just want to say, I'm happy that the Echo Show exists. I'm happy that it's out. And I'm happy that so many people feel seen and tethered to the experience of Echo.

All right. Instant reactions, Chuck. That was beautifully said. I agree. The nervous laughter. No, no, no, nervous laughter. Look, we're about to talk about the show. Yeah.

And we got to talk about it. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't affect us and that we're not ecstatic and feeling a lot of joy for people who are connecting to the character. There are so many talented creators who worked on this. So, like, the reason I'm glad that you got it out of the way by saying all of that stuff is, like, obviously, we all agree.

And I think we would be doing the show a disservice if we didn't do the Midnight Boys thing. Like, come on, man. This is, we love this stuff. We love seeing this stuff. Like, you know, I think for the first episode, what I will say is watching those first two, there's just, there's a murder's role of actors. I think if you have not seen the show Reservation Dogs, go watch it because a lot of the actors that were on that or on this.

There's a lot of heart in this show. I don't say this lately. The kid, the young child that they got to cast is Maya. I believe this in Hawkeye. so phenomenal. Incredible. From the first scene, I'm just like she just has,

like, not just the cute factor, but she just has such a presence. And I think that carries to O'Aqua Cox, who does an amazing job as Maya. She has the intensity. She has this kind of like, this just fierceness behind her eyes. The fucking stunts look cool.

She did a lot of those herself. I think when I was watching those first two episodes, there was a colonel, of a show that I'm like, I wish this was leaned into more. The first episode, especially, just if I'm going to be real, there was a lot of cooks in the kitchen.

Like, you can see the seams on it. And I just think it was just totally a little bit off where we start in this very, very beautiful place in Oklahoma with Maya as a kid and her family. And I'm like, oh, this is very affecting. This is very, very emotional. Like, okay, cool. I'm violent.

with this. And then for 15 minutes, it's almost like we get a Wikipedia summary of everything that came before and then we go back to the story. So it was very, very jarring.

And obviously, there have been a lot of rumors about how troubled the production was. And I was a little bummed. I'm not going to lie. I was very, very bummed where I was just like,

you have so many amazing actors. They're hitting a bunch of notes. But there is kind of the Marvel machine at play. that kind of grinds the story and there's a lot of starts and stops in those first two episodes. Is that fair?

Absolutely fair. So you guys remember when Dremont Green punched the shit out of Jordan Pool? Yeah. Yeah. Remember that? Remember that video? Old Shop got it.

Remember that? Okay. Everyone looked at that as this breathtaking act of violence. Which it was. Right? but when I looked at it, I saw it for something else. It was the mascot of the rumored trouble that the warriors have been having.

Like, you know, teams are teams, but then they have mascots that run around that are visible so you can see it. Oh, there's Mike the Tiger. That means LSU is around the way. Like sometimes when you're paying attention to the actual warriors and they're playing game in and game out, you know, you can see little things that make you go, okay,

this is a troubled team, they're not getting along. But you don't have an example of the dysfunction that's going on between the players on the team until you see him knock the hell out of that boy. You know there it is. They're, that's the idea. That's the, not the idea.

That's the example that things are going wrong. It's come to a head and we see it now. That's how I felt about the first episode of Echo. The first episode of Echo is this odd frankenstein of story. It's not even an episode of television. It's like Kalika couldn't even follow it. Like we watched it and she had seen Hawkeye, but she thought it was an extended

going back in the Pasadena. There wasn't anything to it. And the reason why I say reminds me of that video in a way is that that right there is an example of the lack of creative cohesion that was around this production and in the MCU. You guys, I know you guys are getting tired of us talking about the state of the MCU every single time

we discuss one of these shows. but you have to understand when it's smooth sailing like the boat doesn't rock and you can watch these shows and not just for their quality or whether or not you're having fun with them you can see where the boat's rocking

you can see that at some point they had a way that they wanted to go and they had something that they wanted to do they stopped, redid it, right? Redid it and then just threw everything together and went okay let's see if they'll deal with that. Daredevil shows up so early in this, so early in this that you can tell us a stunt.

Oh, I was confused. I was like, wait, Daredevil? Okay, we're doing this now? Yeah. I was like, is this them trying to be like, get excited about this show? And I was like, I was excited about this show when Maya was here.

What are we doing? You can tell us a stunt. I mean, it was cool to see Daredevil. Don't fucking get me wrong. And that scene was breathtaking. That was some really good stuff. But you can tell they're like, all right, got to give them something.

Like, we don't actually have. a show or a story here for this first one at least. So got to give them something. Let's go. We know what can get them. Give them Daredevil. When we're talking about kind of how things are going off the rails a little bit,

this is indicative of the stuff that we're talking about. This is kind of like, okay, well, we don't really have a show. We don't really have a movie. Let's bring in John Krasinski. That'll get them. You know? And so, look, I'm not saying that Marvel's going to stay here forever, but I'm saying,

When I watched the first episode of this, Echo seems like, and even in the way they threw them all out at one time, it seems like Marvel vomited Echo. It seems like, from what I've seen, it seems like they are saying, oh, okay, here's the rest of it. and the rest of the creative sickness that has been, that has existed in the MCU for a while, just take it. Here's the rest of it. Here's all of it. Here, damn.

Like, what if, too? Like, here, here's all of it. All right, now we're healthy again. We're going to make more nutritious food. But here it is. And you, look, I'm not saying I was unintertained. I'm just saying, in a way, the first episode of the show

is not an uninter entertaining hour of television. In a way, the first episode of the show is a new low because that's not even a TV show. That's like, that's not, that's just like literally cut to cut to cut,

where the fuck did Ronan come from? We come back to him and now he's talking to her. Like we're boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, but it's quick. That's not even, there's not even story to me, Jomi. It's tough because we, we, this is something that we come back to every so often is like the the Marvel, you know, or the TV shows extra credit conversation.

And for the most part, you could, you can have an argument either way. I think ultimately we came to is like, yeah, the TV shows, the TV show supplement the movies and which and which and so and so. But watching this first episode of Echo was like, oh, they don't expect you to watch Hawkeye at all. Yeah. normally there's like, oh yeah, you've seen the other one, right? We might slip up a reference here or we might, you know, throw a little thing here that like a line that'll catch you up.

They literally spent 20, 25 minutes recapping the whole thing. I disagree. To me, like I disagree. I think if you wouldn't have watched Hawkeye, then none of that stuff would make sense to you. No, I don't think it makes sense. I think that they did that cut being like, all right, for the. people who didn't watch Hawkeye, this will catch you up. And it doesn't.

It made me working for. If you don't watch Hawkeye, you're like, why is her dad in the track suit? Like, if you didn't watch Hawkeye, like, why is Kingpin in this out of nowhere? Like, if you, and all of that, like, if you didn't watch, if you didn't see Hawkeye, I, they, I'm watching the show and I say to Kalika, not even thinking about Jomey and his hairbrain fucking theory. Like, I say to Kalika, wow, they really expect you to have watched Hawkeye to get this. because they throw her right into it.

They leave her dad go since you assume her dad is doing something wrong. But if you don't know that he's with the tracksuits that the Kingpin is with him, if you didn't watch Hawkeye, I don't see how you would get it. But the whole thing with Marvel Spotlight when they were rolling out this new banner, which Echo was the first show under,

is like, you don't have to watch anything. This is not connected to continuity. You can jump in fresh. Well, it's connected to continuity. It was connected, but you don't need to be up on it. And I was like, I was like, guys, This first episode is not the one. Exactly.

It's like they don't trust themselves. Normally, it was cool. You come in, all right. Y'all, you've seen that one. We just keep it pushing. Obviously, it was like, nah, you got to make sure that they know bar for bar, word for word, what Maya's journey is. And they, I mean, it's a cool, in theory is a cool concept. You take new stuff, you interstitial with old stuff, and it makes a narrative flow.

But to start with things we had never seen before in terms of Maya's. upbringing and what happened to her and like how she became you know or how she lost her leg and why she had to move to new york and whatnot and then to go into hawkeye stuff and then new stuff it starts to blend together you're kind of like wait wait okay so okay so we're here like the hawkye stuff i know when this was in the show the new stuff uh uh did i miss this is this i'm telling you they it's obvious that they change course yeah the show starts off with such a clear narrative, a narrative that takes us all the way back to the beginning of her people. And then it's obvious that they change course.

Okay, we don't have time. We don't have enough episodes. We'll not have enough resources to do that. We got to do something else. And that's Frankensteining this entire thing and chopping it up, Steve. It's very interesting that this is the beginning of that Marvel Spotlight because on paper, that's actually, this is actually a great test case for making a Marvel Spotlight because I think Echo's story is very, very good and worthwhile for telling.

And you mentioned that Frankensteining of an episode together, that first 20 minutes, outside of like we get, Echo as a child, the car crash, losing the leg, all things are groovy and fine. If we had just kind of cut to her as an adult bleeding in the truck stop halfway through this episode, I feel like we still would have been fine. I would have enjoyed the episode a lot more. And everything would have made sense. But that being said, it is a collection of scenes.

That first section of that first episode is like a collection of scenes that work in some combination or by themselves. Because there were interesting moments to where we have the idea that Kingpin isn't as connected to Echo. Therefore, he hires a translator hidden in shadow, never fully observed in the scene only to be the intermediary between her. He never signs to her personally until later on in their lives and a relationship. That says a lot about the character. You can infer a lot just because of the fact that he's hiring some nobody to speak for him.

There are tonal things that work in this Frankenstein episode, but there's no order of operations that work. So if we were to just go along with her journey, rather than feel bogged down in, okay, the audience doesn't have the attention span to not see kingpin or not see daredevil at some point within the first 20 minutes, it shows a lack of distrust, like we've all said.

And that was kind of frustrating because, like you said, there's a very good show in here. There's something really cool in here. And it doesn't even find an identity of a show or identity of itself, really, until the second episode. So what I want to know from you guys is also tonally, I'm not sure if this show, now that it's been Frankenstein,

not sure what to do with it because there's this magical realism part where they're going back in the past to tell the stories of the Chocta Nation and there's kind of a supernatural element. I think they give Echo Powers in the second

episode, which is new. And then there is like the daredevil Netflix of it all where they're like trying to make their first mature TV show that feels as gritty as those Netflix shows did. And then there's like this third like Disney plus like all right we have to have the train scene and during

the train scene in the second episode I'm like I feel like I've watched this same type of train scene in five different superhero movies what is what like it was like the show was trying to scale and be like oh no we can do the bigger stuff too and I'm like wait I thought this was like a grim and gritty like fighting show why are why is she jumping off a fucking train this isn't It seems like it's wrestling with its own identity from scene to scene with what the show wants to be. And it's a real shame because after, like, in between each scene, I'm like, I can see what you're trying. I mean, I've never, you know, I've watched a lot of stuff. I've never really had a problem with a train scene.

It just appears on how it's done. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What? Come on, gosh. Y'all stay focused. Y'all got to stay focused. I think I disagree a little bit.

I think after the frankestining of the first, like, 35 minutes of the show, I think it finds some footing. A little bit. I wouldn't say... It comes back around a little bit. A little bit. Not nearly enough. A little bit.

I want it to be people to be clear. If anybody thinks that this is like a disaster, I've only saw the first two episodes, this is by nowhere even close to the worst Disney Plus TV show I've ever seen. Like, there are things to love even in the second episode. I'm like, okay, like, we're getting there. It's just... dog the Chocta flashback scene

I'll say some about that secondly I want to come back I want to make another point about the Daredevil scene right prior to the Daredevil scene Echo is going on her first mission with these Kingpin guys the scene doesn't make any sense

it doesn't make any sense that like they have no clue they can't really sign to her they don't really tell her what to do they don't give a fuck about her. They have no clue how close all the cops know who Kingpin is.

They tremble when he walks. This person is so close to Kingpin and they're treating her with absolutely zero care. You know what I mean? Thematically, the scene doesn't really make sense. It's a cool scene in a different show. It's a really cool scene in a different show.

Now, it's still a cool scene, but for this particular show, it doesn't make any sense. I will say there is something that we have to do we have to make a pact with ourselves now every fucking show is not Game of Thrones actually yeah

Meika League I had this conversation Game of Thrones would do a fucking big scene, Battle of the Bastards or whatever and you'd be sitting down in your living room like God damn how much this fucking shit costs they didn't spend some money they went to fucking

ice greeny land Antarctica place Nice screeny line. And they got fucking 50 motherfuckers, 50. And they, we watched that show, we watched that back a couple of times because Colique was like, yo, you must have cost $15 to shoot this. I'm like, yo. Come on.

It looks that bad. Let's look at it. I was either one on the edge. She was the fucking movie, the fucking show Pistraff. Like, it, it, um, if we, we watch that with our TV brains, it's fine. I think it's more than fun. I think it's always fine. So let me ask you all this because, all right,

if you take something like Netflix's Daredevil, which is obviously what, I don't know if this is what the creators wanted this show to feel like, but it feels like maybe like a corporate mandate of like, we want this to feel more mature. One of the things that made Netflix's Daredevil work is that like, okay, it's set in New York City, these are interiors, this show is smaller.

The scope is smaller. that's kind of what like knowing what the show is. When I said like, oh, totally a lot of things are battling is what I was watching on screen, both of those, both of the Chalktas being like, all right, if you lose this game, you have to get out of here. These implications, I'm like, this is such an interesting scene. I'm in this, but it feels like it was made for a show that has a bigger budget. And that's something that I'm like struggling with the Disney Plus shows with.

I'm like, part of being a TV show is knowing that like, hey, if you have the budget of cheers, most of the shit that's happening in cheers is in this fucking bar. Like that's, like, that is what TV is about. When I sign up for this stuff, I'm like, okay, if there's going to be like a down, like, down to the earth level show, okay, it has the budget for that. I'm going to judge it on that. If you try to be like, all right, we have a train scene and we're going back in the past and we're going to do CGI powers with Echo and we're going to do this.

I'm like, that's like five different. shows. Like what is what is this show? Are you talking about from the aesthetic point here? When we're talking about the Frankenstein, I even mean on an aesthetic level of them like, wait, I thought like that Daredevil scene was supposed to

show like, yo, she is disabled, she cannot hear whatever. She's still the baddest motherfucker and Daredevil knows this and Wilson Fist knows this. I think they got that right. No, they got that right. And then when they're like oh, but there's mystical powers of foot, I was like,

so wait, now this is a show potentially about, like, her getting powers. That to me is like, that's a different type of show and my brain is already like, okay, I guess we're dealing with CGI now. And that makes it hard for me to settle into and watch it. The mystical powers thing.

It's distinctly problematic in the context that we talked about, Echo as a show earlier. echo to my recollection does not have powers in the comic books. She does. So she does have powers. So basically her powers are similar to Taskmaster. That's a ability.

Yes. But in the director, I believe, did say I was reading a deadline article that she felt that those powers were lame. And she also felt, the team felt that those powers were also a little problematic. Because in the ASL community, reading lips, you're not going to get 100. percent of what someone says all the time, and to make a lot of echoes powers that, to be like, oh, she can read somebody's lips and know what they're saying. She can look at them and do it. Is it a little problematic, so they went away from that.

Okay. So for me, the ability to be able to, like, a bull's eye has an ability. He never misses. Hawkeye has an ability. A power to me is something that rises above the level of what a human being could do. Will you be able to be perfect every time you throw something? No, but it's possible, right? Like, it...

Not really, but you guys know what I mean. Bullseye worked on it. There can be other Bullseye. There's a talent that Bulls Eye had innately, but then at the same time, he's just a crazy, focus, whatever, throw the thing, whatever. To give Echo powers in this situation kind of cuts against what I think is the power of the character.

I agree. Yeah. To like to give, to make echo powered in this is like, that's not the thing. The thing is despite what other people will call disabilities, she's still the baddest ass motherfucker. It's almost like they didn't trust the character. She has a built in resilience.

Like even when you see her as a child, you're like, oh, this is a child that will not let the world define her and destroy her. And the minute the mystical powers came in, I'm like, wait, no, the interesting part was that she, She's beating Daredevil's ass without the... Like, that's the interesting part. I think what the show is trying to do. I mean, we've only seen two episodes.

But it looks like it's trying to connect Echo through her ancestors. The Choctaws, yeah. The Choctaws. It's trying to, you know, go from... Like, the show starts with the first... The first Chalkta people and how they came down and settled the land. And you have the scene with the sports thing. And then you have her, and they all have the same...

symbol on their, on their hand. Think there's a direct line going from there. We'll see how it plays out. But ultimately, I think that's the story, the show's device to connect her back to the past for people, which I think is interesting enough. You know, again, I want to see how it lands first because there's, it could go a million different ways. It could be awesome.

She shows up and she and Kingpin go on bar for bar, half for hand. You be like, hey, yo, it's kind of fire, you know. We'll see. We like the action scenes first to us. episodes when, I guess when they're not in the train in the dark, but ultimately, I would like to see where it leads before I'm like, I don't know about the powers.

I just want to see the finished product. I'm talking about just the initial decision. It could work out fine. It could work out. There's just the first two episodes. I also think Marvel might have a Wakanda Forever problem where it's like any single time. Whoa. No, no, no, no.

You got it. No, no. Come on. That's not right. Come on. If you're going to do it, you got to hit it, bro. Well, you can't hit it. That's what I'm saying. Hold on for a second. Did he hit it?

Oh, pause. Whoa. Whoa. Oh, Jimmy. Are you talking about Charles's dick work? Okay. Okay. Wait, but I want to say something real quick.

Real quick, I want to say something real quick, just so we know, the reason why Charles can't do the voice. The reason why I can't do the voice. The reason why you can't do the voice. Because your people made this. decision. To sell our people. Oh my. It's like every time.

The boat was fucking sailing away and we were looking back at the land like. Jomey's laughing a lot but last time I tried to go over the Adonorans for dinner you know. That's crazy. They was just like just let you know

you niggas ain't one of us. Like Jomi's people are sitting there watching they were eating some Joe off rice. We're going to and thing. What's for lunch? That's crazy.

Okay. All right. So I do have this thing where it's like we saw it in Chongchi as well where I think because we do not get a lot of diverse characters. Well, we saw it in Chongchi. We saw in Miss Marvel. Now we're seeing it in Echo where all of these characters and their history and their powers have to go back to the beginning of their ancestry. And I'm like, you know. Captain America didn't have to go back

to like fucking the Stone Age to be like he was always supposed to be Captain America. I'm like, do we always have to? Like, there is a... They actually kind of did do that. With the Weapons Plus thing and the... When they recond, the mutant stuff like that... In the movies, though?

The movies didn't be like, all right, we're going all the way back to when Christopher Columbus colonized the fucking land to show you how Captain America was always. supposed to be this. And I'm like, I'm getting to a point where I'm like, all right, we did it with Black Panther, we did with Miss Marvel, we did it with Shang Chi, we're doing it with Echo. There does become a point where I'm like, that's a lot to bite off in superhero

storytelling being like their powers are wrapped up in their ancestry and we need to explain that to an audience very, very quickly. They don't go that back far though. Do they go that back far in Sean Chi and Wakanda for? Shanshi. Nigel, what? Did you see Shonkshi? He started off.

They start off like he's like thousands of years old. And Wakanda Forever mean they explain, though, the vibranium, right? Coming to Earth. So about Black Panther or Wakanda Forever? Black Panther. Black Panther starts with the beginning of niggas. Yo! What?

That's not true. I'm saying you mad at me. Like, Black Panther legitimately starts with the dawn of nigger. And you, and you mad at me, Wakanda was out there. they're just watching it happen. Bro, like Wakanda, yeah. Like, Black Panther, Dawn of nigger.

Like, it starts at the beginning. So, then why are y'all looking at me? Like, I'm bugging for saying, like, I didn't say you were bugging. Like, it's an interesting criticism to have, but I don't think you're bugged. I, I even get it from a creative standpoint being like, yo, this is, like,

it is interesting seeing it on screen, but there is a level of them, like, when I watch Spider-Man, what Mick Spider-Man works, I'm like, he got bit by a spider and this motherfucker killed his uncle. Let's get movie. I don't want to hear about the dawn of spiders.

But you realize in the comics, they did that. They took spider totem, animal, Adam Webb, February 14. What I'm just saying is, to your point, I understand what you're saying. But a lot of different places they've tried to deepen this lore to the part where you have to slog through it. I guess here, the only thing I would say about Echo is but there's so little representation of indigenous people

in superhero media that may be, and look, you probably can say that about everyone, right? So it's the same thing with Black Panthers, it's the same thing with Shang Shi, it's the same thing. I don't think about it. They've done it a lot, man. The internals, we went back to the beginning of the fucking time. When it's a diverse cast, we all,

because I think what happens is they're like, yo, we're never going to get this chance again, so we need to put in all of the ideas. And when I was watching Echo, I don't believe Echo was supposed to be five episodes. And I'm like, the reason that I feel like it feels, even in the second episode, a little disjointed, is because I'm like, wait, you have to explain to me as an audience

who Echo is what a relationship is to all of her family in Oklahoma, what a relationship is to Daredevil in the Kingpin, and then what her relationship is to hundreds of years of indigenous people. Like that, in five episodes, like that's such, even for me as a viewer, I'm like, oh, okay, okay, yep, yep, I'm keeping up and I'm like, all right, you lost me. I think maybe part of it is also we know a lot of those characters. We know the Spider-Man's, you know the Batman's, we know the Superman's.

You don't need, you don't need a freaking 16-point PowerPoint. But like, I know how Superman got the powers and all that bad man got his class. They still do it every time, right? Well, not as much recently. Man, it still begins with the explosion of crypto. When the man, man, so it came out like 2013? Well, every time, well, every time. Superman comes out, I guess

you gotta do it. They better not expose that bitch next time. Can you imagine if we get in our season? And the person we see it's Russell Crow on James Gunn. By the way, I'll say that. Let's say this real quick. It's an interesting thing to do with best parts of bad movies. Manasel is not a bad movie. It's not an overwhelmingly good movie.

But the Krypton part of Manist Still is fucking incredible. That's real cool. Is it? I've watched it in a long time. The Krypton part is really great. The exiled. Zod is awesome.

Yeah, it's fantastic. For me, I will find him. I won't find him. I think, like, I like that, Steve. I'll find him. Steve, you've been really quiet on this episode.

Are you trying to, like, as a resident colonizer in here, are you trying to, like, keep a respectful? I mean, well, always. I'm trying to keep respectful. But. Because Echo wouldn't have any of these problems if it wasn't for you.

I'm just speaking. I'm just being for real. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, if it wasn't for you, everything would be different. Yeah,

it's pretty true. Like, probably got like, 24,000 acres somewhere. Honestly, Echo would be Batman. Yeah, for sure. The whole shit would be different. Yeah. The whole shit would be different.

We would be doing stories about the beginning of white. Like, we would be, like, they would be doing stories. White Wolf, the beginning of White. The beginning of White. The beginning of White. They would be doing stories about the beginning of y'all.

You know what I mean? A bunch of, think about a superhero. Comes from Europe. He cannot dance. And then, you just think, like, you have to explain, you have to go a little, you know, to explain how they got their powers, where their origin comes from. That's easy to do when these characters are much more popular

versus, you know, you kind of reach a demon a bag with Black Panther. with echo, you know, to kind of be like, hey, man, what is, what's going on? How do these? And it's easy to say that, like, all of these characters that have these diverse and, like, needed representation, like, that they are more than this. They are more than simply their heritage. They are more than that history that is about the thing that made them. But it's very important to still look back and actually acknowledge how important that is to be seen. And it's easy to kind of conflate if that's all that their power is, isn't that all that they are? But I kind of understand that while we're still seeing all of these things on screen,

it's kind of important to still have. So I think that the filmmakers believe that too. I think how they feel is, look, we have these people sitting in this movie theater right now. Take Watchman, for example. Shout out to Cord. my buddy so proud of you man and all your success

and everything's going on so shout out to court but even back when they did watchman the decision that Damon made to spend the narrative of

watchman around the Tulsa Race massacre is I mean obviously it's very deliberate but it's also saying hey, we have a property that we know people want to watch, we have the opportunity to educate. And while I don't think that Charles's criticism lacks any merit, I will say the intention there is probably to say,

look, we're covering a different group of people that don't typically get the limelight. Let's infuse this show with a little bit of their culture. For example, Miss Marvel, a part of Miss Marvel, if I'm to remember, takes place at a very, politically tumultuous time in the history of Pakistan, does it not? Yeah. Yeah.

Right. The back half, yeah, like the fifth episode. Right. Or the creation of the civil war that created, like, that Pakistan left, you know. She literally travels back in time to witness. Right. So that's something that they might go, okay, well, not only is that incredible moment in the history of this character, but this is something that maybe people should know about.

Do you have a problem with them shoehorning stuff like that in there? No, actually. They're trying to culturally educate you. So actually what I think I'm advocating for is the reason why I don't think it works when Marvel tries to do it is because Marvel isn't empowering the creators and they don't believe in the work enough to let it stand on its own. I would rather echo, I would rather echo do all of this stuff. And then we debated on that merit versus being like, well, we got to throw Daredevil in.

we got to get kingpinning. We got to get, somebody got to drop this madraport. Which is actually more of a sad thing because they clearly don't believe in the product as a whole. That's what we're talking about. Story-wise.

So that is just more jumbled up story fodder rather than given the actual weight that it deserves. If you think about Watchman, Lindelof has enough clout in the history. There's a reason why it took a white man to tell that story with a property as big as Watchman because he has enough clout to go to HBO,

be like, hey, y'all need to back the fuck off. This is my show. And they've released the show. Versus with something like these shows where it's like, you can tell all these shows have been tinkered with to such an extent where I'm like, you know, either you believe in the quote unquote,

important story you were telling, this is to Disney, not the creators, to like the corporate execs. Either you believe and you empower the creators or you don't. But the end result as, the end result for me as a, is a viewer, is I'm like, it actually you're doing

you're doing the story of disservice because if I feel like you're not investing in it enough then it ends up watching it I'm like feeling a little bit cheap feeling like what Kalika was saying was like was this film for like $15 like what is y'all remember

y'all remember back in the day y'all might have been too young remember when like record labels was really strong like when bad boy maybe not bad boy like yeah it's fine it's fine it's fine Bad boy, bad boy. It was history, guys.

History's history. Death row and all of these things. When record labels was really strong, sometimes what would happen is that, like, they were signed somebody. There was always a sign in towards the end of the record labels heyday. Like, everybody's, everything's going good. Everybody's selling records.

And then it's like, yo, we got a new guy coming out, Wiz MC. But what WizMC doesn't know is by the time they get ready to make his shit, the moment will be over. Yeah. And so what comes out on Wiz MC is this half-baked, half-cock album that you could tell, if you drop it all, that you could tell they didn't really put their heart into. It don't have a lot of the big features on it because the rappers went to jail or they did,

the ones that was popping at first. You get the Just Blaze beats that Jay passed on already? It's just like the moment is over, right? And there's so many stories Like when I watch You know Different platforms and stuff You'll you'll see an interview

From like a whizmc type And they'll be like You know they just didn't care about my shit I'm like They cared when they started it When they signed you They thought that you were going to continue the thing It's just that

What they were doing ran out of gas And Are you saying this is like The last days of like What I'm saying is... Rockafella, like... No, no. I mean, to a degree,

but what I'm saying is that you, with everything that we're talking about, they thought they would be doing better by the time this show came out. When they committed to doing this show, they committed to doing it, their heart was in it,

they wanted to make a great show. And by the way, we're talking about Echo, but I want you guys to listen to our voices, the palpable vitriol that Charles normally has for everything and that I have for Aquaman

it's not in this conversation because there's a bunch of stuff the actors in this are so good like there's so much talent like you can feel the love like when I have the vitro usually I'm like this was a bunch of people

who got a third fourth mortgage and they just punting on it they just punt it on where with this I'm just like oh there was a bunch of creators who were like yo this is our moment and then at least for the first two episodes I'm like oh shit an exec came in and got up all in the video

and it's like, I got to sell this. And I'm like... Okay. I get it. So this is what we're going to do. Before we get to Nerd News, we're all going to give our hope for the last three episodes. And this is what I'm hoping. And you guys might say that this is fucked up. I'm hoping for PAR. I think Echo can get back to PAR. I'm rooting for Echo in the last three episodes. Par. I don't need a birdie. I don't need an eagle. You know what I mean? Is there anything past a Eagle. Albatross.

Is that true? Yeah. So Albatross is like two shots. Yes. Wait, y'all be golfing like that? No, but. Who got an Albatross before? I got an Albatross in Mario Golf. That's how I know what an Albatross is. You're not going to Mario Golf.

Like, just keep talking, Big. I'm sorry that I put the audience through Mario Golf. Mario, what? Respect. Well, respect Mario Golf. Game Boy Color. All right, y'all got a musical episode. Y'all can talk about Mario Golf. Yeah, I do Mario Golf.

All y'all want. over there with the Mario Golf situation. We're trying to have a real conversation about some real... I literally spent $400 on a Switch just to play Mario Golf. Like, I was that locked in. You did? Yes. All right.

So, you know what? Pause really quick. How much did you spend? Like $400. See, this is what I don't like about Jomey. Every other day, Jomey's like, I don't got the money. You know, it's hard out here. It was a birthday gift from myself to myself.

Oh, you just throwing $400 out? I was like, yo, like so my, like, 2021, I want to say. and the new switchers coming the new OLED switch is coming out and I was like man I really like that Mario golf game man like I might as well never I never really like

played the Mario games man you know let me let me treat myself let me let me spend a little extra bread you know what I'm saying I don't do that say he ain't got no money and then eat a Big Mac in his nephew face

come over to somebody's house there's a barbecue spread yeah Jomey's packing that shit up I go to somebody And I'm like, can you eat it with us? Go to somebody's house, artists and take them home. But I'd never forget it. That was amazing.

An amazing move. I tell you guys right now, like, Jomey is literally like a member of our family. Like, Bozeman gets super excited. Bozeman is so fond of both Charles and Jomey. It's so weird how much the dog likes you. It's Steve that I feel like Steve be fronting on. Steve fronts a little bit.

It's okay. See, it's not like Bozman. It's fine. No, I love Bozman. You guys, it's fine. Van trained Boseman not to like me. That's bullshit, right?

Wait, we might have to play the drums. Do you think just because Van might be a little militant, he trained his wonderful dog to hate white people? It's so crazy. That's great.

You got to play the drum. No. That's the type of accusation right there. Officer, officer, officer. He trained his. Train that dog To not like...

I wish we were on video so I could pop a picture up of Bozeman you guys can see the dog. He's an adorable. Beautiful face. But yeah, so it's, you know, my hope for Echo is that we can get back to part and I really think that we can't because what, the reason why I say that

and I know everybody's going to be like, oh my God, expectations are so low of edge as part. I want to see the character again. Yeah. And so what I want to see is this come out, it's almost like an appetizer, like an hors d'oeuvre.

We get to know the character enough to where we're like, all right, there's more and better for Echo in a more stable MCU universe moving forward. They gave us enough, almost like this is an extended five-episode teaser. You guys, I realize how that sounds, but that's about the best I can expect for or hope for moving forward. I think, because here's the thing, There are things, even there are smaller characters

where I'm like, the chemistry between Maya and her cousin Biscuit is so fucking funny. Like, I was just like, Biscuit is my dog. Like, when he was like having to do the shit where he had to sell his PS for, I'm like, he's like, there are great actors in this. Even like the fight seed, it did not make sense. But there is something that a Lockercox has in her eyes

when she's like fighting where I'm like, I want to see her kick more ass. I like, I do, I agree with you, Van. I think that there's a level that this show can get back very easily. And I think it's simple. Just trust the show. Trust the actors.

Trust them to pull this off. Get out of the way. I do not. Like, will I be mad if Daredevil shows up again? No. But I do think there is a level of them. Like, yo, let this hero succeed on her own. Like, she does not need Daredevil and fucking Kingpin and the MCU of it all.

Like, just let Alcoqa Cox and this cast are talented enough where I'm like, if you get out of their way, I think you will get a very, very pleasant. good show. It sucks that it's the Marvel spotlight and the rest of the MCU is robbing her of her spotlight. You said it way better than I do. I can't wait to see what they have left in store. I'm really interested in seeing her

journey and how Kingpin Offenton, they've talked a lot of gas around Kingpin's portrayal and how this means for the MCU going forward. So in terms of what she's got to do in the MCN, what Kingpin's got to do, I'm excited. I think they can do better than part, man.

I think we can have something really, like, beginning, definitely, definitely rough. But we can, we can end on a high note. And we're being positive. Let's go. What do you think midnight meter next week? What do you think prediction-wise we're looking at? Let's not do this. Let's not, let's not do it.

I think the show could get to like a seven or an eight easily. Six-seven? Six-seven, I think, I think it's there. I think it can be six-seven. Honestly, I think a six-for-Echo will be a win. For everything that's gone through. For everything that's gone through. I think a six will be a one.

win. You guys, look, let me tell you something right now, man, about the midnight meter. You have to understand, baby. Not everything can be a fucking nine or a ten. A six for a show that's been through that much would be so good. It would be such

an achievement for that show. It would show the perseverance of the narrative if it were able to get to six. I mean, this show is already better than Secretivation, so we're already like... I mean, there's... You can watch grass growth, but chicken invasion. episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session.

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Some great Star Wars news today. What? What? What's your thing? Why are you laughing at the star? Why are you laughing at it? I'm having a jolly time. Okay, it's jolly.

You think it's fucking funny? I think it's hilarious. Okay, give it too much. There's a new Star Wars movie. The first Star Wars movie we're seeing is not going to be right in the future, teaching young paduans. It's going to be Mandalorian and Grogu directed by John Favreau. What I will say, Ben, when this news hit today, or yesterday when this pot comes out,

it was not the round, like, the resounding, like, hooray, we finally get the Mando movie. I think there are some people who were very excited, the Star Wars Faithful. I think others were a little bit more trepidacious. Why do you think that is? Like, why do you think there was such a mixed reaction to a Mando movie? Number one, the timing of the announcement, meaning the season of Mando that we just came off of. If they had announced a Mando movie after season one or even after season two,

I think the response to this announcement would have been different. I think a lot of people are asking themselves where the story will go next based upon how displeased they were with season three of Mando. I think a lot of other things playing to that as well, the health of the Star Wars content that you're getting from Disney Plus. And just, once again, as fans, we know too much, the behind-the-scenes power struggles that are going on over there. Like, whose movie is this?

Is this Fabros movie? Is this Faluni's movie? Is this Kathleen Kennedy's movie? Or why are they making this? they making this because someone had a kick-ass idea or a movie with Mando and Grogu? Are they making this because of some business reason or some other thing that they can't do? Is this just another attempt for them to have their property, Lucasfilm Traywater? It just came so out of nowhere that it didn't seem like.

something that they've meant to do, that they wanted to do. It felt like when like a basketball team is like panicking in the middle of the year and they just do a signing where you're like, y'all just made a move to make a move, where it felt like this came out of fear and not of, from a place of strength. Like, yo, we believe in Mando and Grogu. At this point, I'm going to be real. Baby Yoda's on the clock. He's on notice.

Baby Yoda is so close to being a fucking poochie. Like he is so close to being a fucking poochie. Like, he is so close to being just, like, that character be like, when he's not here, you're just asking, where's poochie? Where I'm like, dog, like, Grogu can't be up in all this shit. Like, every single time, I just, how did they go so wrong with Mando and Grogu? Like, that, like, how do you fuck up something that was, like, so perfect? Was a once-in-a-generation just shot?

And now the thought of a Baby Yoda and Mando movie is giving me a headache. It's not locked in, Charles. You're not locked in. You're not there. You're not on Yavin, brother. You're not there out there in the Santa Tatooine. Again.

Again, for the eighth time. What happened to you, man? What happened to you, man? What happened to you, brother? They broke me. If y'all can't tell by the sound of my voice these past couple weeks, they broke your boy.

I thought I was invincible. I thought the hater in chief was invincible and I wasn't. I'm aging. Here's what I'll say. I say, Joe. I love this. I love everything about this.

Let's check this out. The year was 2017. We're all there, December. Right, yeah, let's go through the movies. Let's go watch this new Star Wars film, The Last Jedi. Oh, man.

Now, I don't want to get into like it, dislike it. sit wherever you sit on that spectrum that's where you at but the reaction for that movie was tough and people are stupid continued look they people were upset

so Kathleen and Kennedy and everybody up there Lucasfilm was like hey we can't we can't can't do that again let's let's let's let's go let's change course let's let's go the entirely opposite way right fast forward a couple years

Mano season three. It's not really looking like it. Asoka had some moments. Had some moments. Had some successes. It had some, had some lows. It did.

We got on the podcast. We talked about some things we like. Let's be for real. Osok was fine. We had an episode and a half. Continue. For them to now look at that and go, I kind of wasn't all that.

Fuck it. We're doubling down. that's what I'm talking about, man. That's real, that's, that's, that's, that, that's, that, that's, that, that that's, that, that, that's, that, that, that, that, that's, that, that, that's, that, that, that's, they're like, hey, you know what. Remember last time we messed up and we went back and we, we, we, we're not doing that no more. They lock it. What's the opposite of someone giving a word? Because they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they look y'all in the eyes.

They looked y'all in the eyes and said, nah, we're doing this our way. We're running this. We run in this thing the way we want to do. See, that would be true if they were at all confident about what Star Wars movies were. We haven't had a Star Wars movie in so long. Rest and peace, oh, man. Solo was great. We should have got a sequel.

But that's the thing. The fact that this clearly feels like a play is the fact that, like, all right, what's the strongest thing going in Star Wars right now? It's still probably the Mandalorian. I mean. And we can see it from just the quote unquote market perspective. Like, what's going to do gangbusters? Probably a Mandalorian movie.

That's all that we can see. We're getting this in 2025. We're getting this ASAP, probably. Who, I'm going to be real. I don't think Amanda movie is going to do well. Like, we're talking about just your average audience. Your average audience didn't give a fuck about the third season. Why are they going to give a fuck about the movie?

Well, so this is the interesting thing. If it's the safe play, it is the most precarious safe play. play I've ever seen. So it's not that safe. I'm just saying. It's the safe bet. It's not that safe. If it's the safe play, it's the most risky safe play I've seen.

Because I don't think my mom knows who the Mandalorian is. Right. It's probably true. And so when you're talking about going out, the thing about these shows is we can have conversations about viewership and all of that stuff and blah, blah, blah, blah, and all of that shit. Like, who cares about what and is it doing as well? Does it have is it

Trending as much on Twitter? Yeah, it's all kind of whatever right They gotta share the information for us to get it The movies tell you where you at Yeah And it changes right Color Purple comes out Christmas Day Boom we like guess what we back

I heard the drums in the street Nobody's seen the movie since Okay And it's not my fault I thought it was great I'm just saying the movies slow down a little bit. Everybody must have saw it on Christmas.

Then you guys didn't go see it for the New Year. It's a great way. Wait, whoa. If we're going to be real because I got to be real, what color purple? What do you want me to do? What do you mean? What do you mean? What that movie got for me? What do you mean? I don't support black people, support black women. It's got Fantasia. It's got Blitz. My man, Blitz directed.

Support Fantasia. From what we hear from set, they own movie didn't want to support our Black queens. So what are we even talking about? Here we go. Here we go. My question is like what kind of rental car? Because that matters.

So I didn't, so I saw the article. Yeah. And I'm like, now, like, for example, you travel, you go out of town, you go someplace, and you get your rental car. Then you get there, you get the rental car, and they go, hey, do you want to upgrade to like a luxury midsize? You look and you're like, fuck it. I deserve.

You know what I mean? And then when you go get your luxury midsize, you see another motherfucker pulling off in a goddamn escalade. And you think that's the nigga I want to do. He came down here to fucking Chicago, motherfucking San Antonio, and he said, I'm not half stepping.

I wonder if Taraji felt that way. If she was at budget rent a car, getting her car, and they came through and she had a nice motherfucking challenger. You know what I'm saying? They gave her to V6.

Don't need to hear me. Well, Taraji shouldn't be driving though. That's not the point. The point is we need to be specific with these criticisms. What kind of rental car? Because if you about to tell me right now that they had her in the escalado,

okay? Or if they had her, what if they gave her a Bentley rental car? What if they gave her? This is why people can never be free. You know what I'm saying? The status symbols get to you. So let me ask you a question.

Let me ask you a question. Would you rather be, this is for all the Midnight Boys and the people in the audience, because this is the shit I think about. Would you rather be driven in a Cadillac or drive a Bentley?

Driven in a Cadillac. Driven in a Cadillade. I can tell you, I don't get no ass. Like, like, would you rather be, would you rather be, would you rather be, would you rather be? Would you rather be?

So you'd rather be driven in a Cadillac than drive a Bentley. Have your own driver? Yes. I would much rather have my own drive. Bro, I'm telling y'all, y'all got the game fucked up. What are you talking about? Where am I going? What's the context?

Am I driving to set of the color purple? I don't give a fuck where are you driving? If you, if you mean to tell me you lazy motherfuckers, you drive into Bentley, you got the fucking shine, you rolling. Nice. No, no, whoa. So you're telling me a woman would be, like, would not be a press. I ain't got to play it because they ain't got nothing to do with sex.

You literally said, oh, what? Don't play. Don't play. My name is Charles. You said, when you said these motherfuckings get no ass, don't go there. Right. But I'm talking about it. You said, you mean to tell me a woman that had nothing to do.

It had nothing to do with Jinder. Is this how y'all feel when I be lying up? a store of you. I'm just saying, had nothing to do with gender. How are you going to tell me? Man, I know what these motherfucking women want, nah, is that they do a gender?

I'm asking y'all. I'm asking y'all, I'll put it to you this way. What would you, let's take it out. Just the brother. If I was just like, hey, y'all, like we got to record late, but y'all can get into my fucking Bentley

or whatever you can get in my SLS or my driver's dropping us all off. We don't got to do shit. We pop in bottles in the back. That's a very specific circumstance. And that, but you said, we need, we need context. I'm talking, first of all, she gets to have the rental car to go wherever she wants. And your driver takes you wherever you want.

I know, but what I'm saying is, you're talking about, oh, it's the end of the night, we tired, all of that dumb ass shit. The beginning of the day, I got to go to the gym and your driver. What I'm talking about, you get, you get a rental for fucking 14 days. Would you rather be driven around in the escalade or with, would you rather drive your, own Bentley. The driver. Every time the driver, right. I don't mind driving.

I'm stuck tabulous around. How much of a stunt is a rental, though? Yes. Like, bro. Are you saying drive your own Bentley for 14 days or get a driver? Is it drive your own Bentley for 14 days? Bro, this was for the whole fucking show. Y'all don't know what's going on.

This was for the whole show. Y'all don't know the shit that you're talking about right now. First of all, who gives a shit if it's, Arenda, you think these motherfucking Instagram, they're not checking the... Oh! Oh, my band!

I'm like, it's easier not to drive. You just be like, hey, we go like, you go on a night. That's the whole problem with y'all generation. No. What do you mean? Oh, right. No. It's easy. It's easy. What are you to drive up?

Man is a whole. We can get as drunk, as mess up as much we want. A yo, take us to the crib. You can still get as drunk as you want. You can have your homie drive to escalate. That's even better. He can't get drunk, though. No, he's not going to get drunk.

It's not his job. Because either way, you've got to say it's a rental. It's my movie. We could be having mimosas in the back of the fucking escalation. Come on, what, what are we doing? Nah, y'all tripping. You know what? Y'all different.

Y'all different. The escalate is very nice, by the way. Shout out to Caled. If you want to sponsor the Midnight Boys, we are boys. The Esclay is very nice. The other news before we get out of here, they dropped this in there too Asoka Season 2

Once again They didn't drop it with a lot of like strength It was more so like Yeah we've running it back I mean yeah I mean y'all Y'all was so down Like it wasn't like Man two years ago

I guess it's a long ass time ago We were like man That season two finale The Amanda man we was cooking Oh let's go Now I do understand there was You got the Boba Fett in there you got season three

we liked parts of Osoka let's let's be very clear But here's the thing Jome you keep doing this You keep doing this You like that's how I know you A big basketball fan When a motherfucker's team's losing

Or their favorite player It's always like yo But two years ago Three years ago My man was putting up numbers Y'all forget really I'm just like yo What have you done for me today

What has Star Wars done for me recently Jomi What Andor I mean it's not the same But How one of those was Andor bro? That long?

What was it? 2022? Yeah. In 2024, bro? We barely in 2020. At that point it starts to feel like a fluke. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Okay.

You know, you won one playoff game and we just got to hear about it. They didn't win one playoff game. They had 12 episodes that we were legitimately in grip by. Let's relax. That's a chip. Let's be this before. That's a chip? You got.

Andor's not a chip. You guys. Andor's not a chip. You guys. Andor is not a chip. Andors. What are we calling a chip? First of all, there have other, there's been other Star Wars things that we've

enjoyed. Yes. Okay. Tales from the Jedi we enjoy. Oh, really? We didn't enjoy that? Yeah. Yeah, he was fine.

You talk about the big shit. Come on, man. We're talking about dinner. Y'all bringing up appetizers. What I'm saying is that, and even in the shows that we're discussing, that we were ultimately displeased with be it Asoka, be it Mando, season three. It's not shawak. It didn't hit the heights we wanted.

it's a hit. Star Wars is marketably markedly more healthy, markedly healthier, should I say. What a cat William say? Y'all devotion to losers is just like... Yeah, you call it Star Wars? It's unlike you. Star Wars is a loser.

They're in a slump. See, you know what Charles is? Charles was one of these... Charles was one of these cut Derek Jee to niggas. He is. Dan and Gina, been playing for the Yankees

X amount of time. He hits 200 in August. Charles was like, call up the kid from the AA. I know Joe's not laughing. Jokies on Twitter saying they should fucking cut Braun

every other fucking day. First of all, first of all, first of all, first of all, first of all. I did say that because he was a... I did say that.

I absolutely did say that. Because AD can only do so much. Right. Brian, that game against Miami, let's not get into it. man had 10 points. He was, I think, Kevin Love,

Kevin looked like it was 20, 2020, 2010 out there with the 42 in the Minnesota. Was out there grabbing rebounds, throwing outlet passes. Oh, let's have some shame. All I'm saying is this. I'm saying, let's not, in either chase, let's not overstate

the current reality of Star Wars. Now, are we brimming with us with excitement? For the next season of the smoker. I want to see it. I really want to see it, but the momentum was sort of lost in the finale. All of these announcements should come with a lot of wind in the sales, and they're not.

And that's just how it is. It's a shame that when we hear that we get a Mando movie, we're not excited for it because we should be. This should be a good thing. This was a home run for two. You guys are describing loser behavior to me. That's all that's all. I think what's really interesting is we had this conversation.

I want to say it might have been on a pod, might have been off a pod. But we were thinking about in the movie that they're going to make with Filoni eventually. Air to the Empire. That's what I said. We were wondering, like, how would they bridge that gap between films? Because people are going to, like, watch the Mandalorian or people are going to, like, oh, you watch TV shows, then let's go to the theater and watch this big. new epic that Star Wars

is dropping is this kind of you guys think this is like kind of a stop gap for that so they're like oh we recognize those characters when you see them later is this I don't want to say like an Avengers one

because I feel like that's kind of crazy but kind of like setting maybe like an Iron Man 2 or a Thor like a first Thor and setting up Air of the Empire to be like the Avengers movie

for all the like the new Star Wars stuff we've been consuming since Disney Plus. I think honestly they got a lot of people got panic. Disney Plus is not working like it. It was. They're looking at the books being like, we need a Star Wars movie.

They look at the numbers and be like, Mando is crazy. Look at all this merchandise. And I truly do think that this was a business decision. I think what the risk is, you were talking about this fan, is like, if people don't, like we can see how many people go and see Mando and Grosu,

the movie. If that shit don't make, you know, $700 million, a billy or whatever, now heir to the empire. It has to work. Does it got to make $700? It doesn't have to make. I don't know how much it has to make,

but it's got to work. I mean, I think it could work critically. I don't think $700. You might. Come on. Ain't nobody was a goddamn Mando at the Oscars. It don't have to work critically. It has to make a bit of a shit ton of money.

I guess I'm not going to put a number on it in terms of, I'm not going to say if it don't make a billion or whatever, it has to work. It has to be something that people get out and go see in the whole night. It has to. It has to make more. Let's put it this way. It got to make more than like a solo. It got to like.

What did Solo do? Enough to kill Star Wars movies for a while. Again, Solo didn't do that. Let's stop putting that on solo. Let's see what the, what is the least successful Star Wars movie of this generation? It might be solo. Solo made $400 million in the box office. So Mando got it.

Like, if Mando makes five... Six. Like, that's still like... I think six would be a win. You think six would be a win? I think five. Five wouldn't be a win. Five wouldn't be a win.

The movie's probably going to cost $200, $250. They got to clamp down on that too. I mean, look, the reality is, I mean, we're... Think about... Hold on. Before we move off this, I want you to think about this. Seriously. No, I'm looking at the list.

I want you guys to think about this. Looking at the list of what? List of the Star Wars moves that made the least. Remember, the Clone Wars was also in theaters, guys. Don't forget. Made like... How much you think the Clone Wars made? Like $20 million?

$20 million. $70 million. Oh, okay. That's not bad. That's better than I thought it would be. But if you talk about live action, then solo is the worst. Think about this. Think about...

how cynical the conversation we just had was. Think about this. Okay. Well, Joanie, I was positive. Just, well, think about what we're saying now. We're talking about Star Wars, right? Sonamis with wonder. Sanamis with hope.

Sonamis with your childhood, with heroes, villains, all of that stuff. Just like this endless wellspring of inspiration and good. feelings. And we talked about every different aspect of the business, creative problems. We named executives. We did the entire thing. The conversation wasn't even really about how interested we are to see Mando and Grogo on the big screen because that's secondary to so many other storylines and so many other questions now. Honestly, man, like it, I, you know, I don't know who listens to the podcast and all of that stuff, but I hope that people out there are hearing what's happening. And I'm not, I don't mean to be overly earnest about it, but I hope that people are hearing like what's

going on. I hope people are feeling. When you go to Star Wars celebration and all of those people are there holding up lightsabers and doing all of that stuff, they're doing that because, you know, it's a part of their life to connect with this stuff. It means something to people. And I just just hope that they care about that as much as they care about, like you said, the last episode, content. Couldn't have said it better myself. All right. We got to go.

I'll tell you what. You guys are in it for doozy post credits. Is it a doozy or is it a... It's the best conversation we've had in months, in my opinion. Great. Got to stick around for post credits, guys. Oh, my God. All right.

That's a wrap. Follow us on socials, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save Jomi's job. Today on the House of Our feed, Mal and Joe will be giving you their 2024 hype draft. Woo! And on Friday, House of Rall will be giving you their deep dive into Echo. On Monday, Mint Edition returns to give a musical edition of Here Comes the Pitch. Here comes. Because, again, we don't want to confuse people.

We're not going to sing. We are pitching musicals. But that's not the main thing. We're not going to go out there and say it. Well, Steve wrote this. Okay, well, okay. I'll switch the words around, but yes. You got to get it.

On Monday, Mint Edition returns to give you an addition of here comes the pitch, focused on musicals. Ah, there we go. Yeah. There we go. Our producer is Steve, the architect Alman. Jomi, the explainer at dinner on. He's on socials.

Hashtag, Jomey the Mindmaster. An additional production from Arjuna, Ramcapow. Charles, take us out. Buccarino, we got driving. around here, Echo arrived with a lot of flair, and a hair is a rabbit, but is a rabbit a hair. How they bridge a hair to the empire, the movie that's coming out eventually, right? Because what's it called? Hair to the empire?

Hair to the empire? I got an accent. Air to the empire. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? The ancient accent. Hair to the empire. That's mine. That's mine.

He just went to a black barbershop. And he was like he just has to run a black barbershop in the empire. Hair to the empire. No, no, it's Buck's buddy running it. What did you talk of hair? I just got that. It was a rabbit joke. Let me tell you something.

Bruh. Are hair's rabbits? Yeah. There's a hare. I think there's a rabbit and there's a hair. I think there's a rabbit. It's a distinction of a rabbit. It's a different type of rabbit.

What's the type of distinction? Why are you laughing? Hairs are distinguished from rabbits by their largest size, longer ears, and longer hind legs. Are they from the same family? Is it the rabbit family? Yes. Of course it's the same fucking family. What you think is the same.

Yeah, the shit's the same. I didn't know if it was like a wolf or and a dog. It's like horses and stallions. It's like that kind of a dog. Wolf and dog is different. That's actually a good counterpoint. Wolf and dog is different. but hair is like cat and lion.

Okay, okay. No. A lion is huge and a cat is this big. Wait, wait, wait, wait. But a lion's still a cat. Technically, yes, but like there's a very big difference between the lion and a cat. Well, a lion is a cat and he acts like a lion and a cat act similar. They look the same, more the same.

They're cats. Uh-huh. Yeah. They're cats. Now, hair is different. because a hair is like a, oh, a hare is an alligator or crocodile? No, that's two different. Species.

We should just have an animal show, right? Is it, is an alligator and a crocodile to the species? No, right? Let's look. Is it, it's the cousin? I got an ample post credits ready for you. I think they're both Caymans, if my mind. It's the same shit, but a hair.

Y'all still haven't told me what a hair is. He just told you. It's a rabbit with longer ears. It's a bigger rabbit and it's got longer ears. That's it? So it's like a, think of something, like a line and a mountain line. No. It's not what that's not like to be.

No. This is the hardest thing that we struggle. Jesus Christ. Think of a fucking a mouse and a rat. There you go. Sure. No, those are two different things. No, yeah.

A rat is a different thing. A rat is a different thing than a rabbit, though. Y'all just told me it wasn't. Yes. No, they have longer ears and longer hind legs. I guess they do different. They like hunt differently. They live in different environments, but they're like a jack rabbit.

A rabbit doesn't hunt? Hold on. What do you mean? A rabbit hunts? Oh, a rabbit doesn't hunt. Oh, a rabbit doesn't hunt. They're not carnivore. But at some point they have to, they have to get away from something.

Predators. And move faster. That's why their legs are bigger and the ears are longer. So basically, these are just, shut up. It gets confusing when you start bringing other animals into it because there are other animals that look similar, but it's not the same. I think this is kind of a simple thing. Think about like dogs, right?

Bozeman and a chihuahua are both dogs. Different breeds. Different breeds. Right, but you wouldn't say they're not dogs, but that was done on purpose by big dog. By big dog? Who's a big dog? The Tiger Woods means.

The Tiger Woods mean. They, they breeded the dogs to do different things. Yeah. This is nature. So the question is, what is the purpose of the hair being different than the rabbit? Midnight riders or midnight mob, we don't care which? Right in. Tell us about this.

This is fascinating. Tell us about the rabbits in the hairs. I know we got scientists listening. So crocodile alligator. Not the same. They're not the same. But they're not a different species. No.

They're the same. The chymine. What is it called? What is it? Crocadelia, they're part of different families than the crocodile genus and have different body sizes. So it's different family. Yeah, right?

Just like a lion and a tiger. Sure. Sure. They live different places because it's not different species, right? Well, I mean, it's probably, it's the same genus. Same genus. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So we have to go.

But we have to finish this. I just haven't finished my thought. But let me say something real quick. I made this observation on higher learning and we've talked about it here before and I really mean it. There is an intentional animal

illiteracy campaign that goes on. They get to like the eighth grade or the ninth and they just stop learning about animals. Now me, a 43 old man it sounded like a fucking idiot trying to figure out of the words. She's a rabbit.

I don't know the difference between family, genus, species. Hey, Charles got the right idea. Somebody right in, we need an animal nigger to come on the podcast. Like, I'm serious, I want to have next week if we got a time because we got to do the... Yo, let's have the animal corner. Let's get some of the animal corner, bro. All our questions. Yeah, answer, we're going to bring a...

If you are local to L.A. and you know about animals, the second half of the podcast next week, and this is the longest post-credits we've ever done. Yes. The second half of the podcast next week, can you please come on the podcast and just answer rapid-fire animal questions from the Midnight Boys?

I've never been more excited for a show. So to get back to what I was trying to say.